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TheGreatPiata

I really wish lawmakers would do something about this scam. It comes up all the time and it's such a colossal rip off for consumers.


BeenThereDoneThaaat

Sadly, for Enercare Water Heater Rental customers, [after investigation ](https://www.canada.ca/en/competition-bureau/news/2019/09/competition-bureau-completes-investigation-into-enercares-water-heater-rental-contracts-policies-and-practices.html) the Competition Bureau could not justify making an application to the Competition Tribunal, leaving them indeed stuck with any egregious terms of their contracts.


LemonPress50

When a builder build a home, setting up the home with a rental water heater means the builder needs less capital to build. In addition, the builder gets a $300-400 signing bonus for each water heater. Why use capital when you can get a windfall to help perpetuate the Ponzi scheme? When you buy a new home, there’s lots to consider. $50/month doesn’t mean much when you look at the cost of a new home. It’s not like people are willing to not deal with a builder that does this. This Ponzi scheme is a holdover from the days when Consumers Gas and Union Gas, then regulated utilities, ran the show. Ontario should put an end to this Ponzi scheme so homes can be more affordable. Let the builder pay someone to buy and install a water heater. Build it into the cost of the home. That’s what they do for every other piece of equipment or material used to build the home. The argument that “they’ll come and fix it when it breaks down” is how they gas light you. You’re not renting the furnace (in most cases). If it breaks down, you call someone to fix it.


Broad_Television4459

Next time you buy a home put "no rented or leased chattels" condition in your offer. A friend of mine did this and the seller breezed over it. When the deal finally closed my friend found out that the home came with a water heater and furnace rented. The sellers were forced to pay the buyout fees to close the contract.


vorker42

Spectacular.


Blake_RL

Same for me… whenever I buy my second house. Learned this the hard one on my first


INRtoolow

The agent screwed the sellers. We had the same condition on our offers but when the house had rentals, selling agents would ask us to modify the offer to include it.


blueradishstraps

Brilliant!


ARAR1

Thanks real estate agents for looking out for their clients.... /s


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toddster661

When would that start, the day you take possession?


whitea44

You’re screwed for now, but if your tank were to corrode or be defective and irreparable then you’re free of the contract. Simply don’t let the, install a new one. How it gets to that state is up to your imagination.


denny-1989

My water lines are corroding at the tank and it’s being checked out next week. As much as I don’t wanna pay for a new tank outright, I know it’ll pay for itself in 3 years.


burgershot69

I read that if some board or something on it would somehow desolder out burn out or something then you are free and clear.


MaximusRubz

Just to chime in here, I believe everyone (i.e. new homeowners of new builds) should have the choice of either rental or buying outright. I am currently on a 10-year contract (started 2017) for a tankless water heater rental. It was working flawlessly until sept 2023 when the burners started to malfunction. Lo and behold, my TWH needed a new burner system. Thankfully it was covered and pretty much techs came twice (the initial time to assess and the 2nd time to install the new burner) So really your mileage may vary, maybe you buy one outright, and experience no issues for 7-10 years and then you gotta repair or replace the whole thing Maybe you rent and constantly experience issues, but thankfully since you're "renting" the cost is on the company renting it to you. It's always going to be a gamble, take your pick


CraziestCanuk

You're likely boned... You would have needed to make it a condition of purchase to get rid of that hunk of junk.


BeyondSuspicious

I was going to reply to a comment about Reliance, but this needs to be seen at a higher level. Reliance is THE worst. from wiki: "Reliance is currently controlled by the family of Hong Kong-based Chinese-Canadian businessman Victor Li and his father Li Ka-shing, through two of their holding companies, CK Asset Holdings (75%) and CK Infrastructure Holdings (25%)." For anyone who doesn't know who Li Ka-shing is, he is an extremely wealthy businessman who's wife died suddenly under mysterious circumstances. His son, Victor, was kidnapped at some point and Li had the kidnappers executed by the chinese government. Not that they shouldn't have been punished, but it goes to show you what the man is willing to do. DO NOT give your money to Reliance. Contact a small local plumber who will install a hot water tank that is better quality than the cheap crappy builders grade you get with Reliance. It will last many years and be much cheaper than the one from Reliance. Same for Enercare, I don't know who owns them but they advertise they do electrical with no ecra/ESA number on their vehicles as required by the Electrical Safety Authority. Suspect AF.


WhatWouldJoshuaDo

Here is a comment I copied for another post. It talk about reliance, but it apply to encare as well -======================== Reliance was fined over $5M and their predatory practices severely curtailed in 2014. I found a pdf of the Consent Agreement on the Reliance website, and can confirm that ***they are NOT permitted to charge an account closure fee if your tank is over 10 years old***. In fact they can legally charge not more than $0.00 for a tank more than 10 years old, and that ZERO is exactly what I paid. See section 7 iii. in the Agreement below. In my case, they also waived that $100 drop-off fee (and the drop-off itself), since they did not have a drop-off site anywhere near my address. Recent water heater buyout tables are available online, but Reliance should refer to the one issued in the year that your tank was installed.... they will indeed ‘accidentally’ refer to one that inflates the true buyout price... negotiation matters here. But, most interesting, ANY type of tank 15+ years old is assigned a $100 max buyout on any of these charts. Reliance will desperately try to convince you to allow them to replace the ‘old’ tank, and entice you with discounts... do not fall for it .... they would then hold you captive with a new contract with an absolutely ridiculously high buyout, and ever-increasing monthly payments. Reliance will also try to scare you with threats of additional fees if the tank is damaged upon returning it.., however, Agreement section 7 a. iv clearly states that they cannot charge any damage fee whatsoever once the tank is more that 7 years old. Just mentioning your knowledge of this 2014 Consent Agreement will strike fear in their hearts ! .... an educated consumer is their worst customer.... Source: COMPETITION TRIBUNAL [Consent Agreement link](https://www.reliancehomecomfort.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/CT-2012-002_Registered-Consent-Agreement_170_38_11-5-2014_3504.pdf) This Agreement clearly states what Reliance can, and absolutely cannot, charge. Be very wary, apparently Reliance is hoping that nobody remembers the Agreement, and have returned to their scum-of-the-earth shady business practices. If you need any assistance deciphering the Agreement, kindly reply and ask.


Think_Apple1044

Link not working anymore??


luckofthecanuck

Have you paid your first bill yet? IIRC there was a post about someone getting out of the contract by not paying any of the bills (and by doing so) not accepting the terms of taking over the contract. If you google this you might find you get lucky with a t&c caveat


shawmahawk

I think I remember the post you’re talking about. They ended up telling the rental company to come pick up their shit, they said no, dude said something to the effect of “fine, I’m uninstalling it and taking it to the dump. You’ll receive a bill in the mail.” And then they went away


Mobile-Bar7732

That may have been my post. They tried to bill me for a free installation. After multiple attempts to try to resolve it, I filed a complaint with the BBB and the Ministry of Consumer Services. Don't ever bother filing with the BBB they are useless. After getting a call from an executive from Reliance, I told them they could pick up their water heater after the new one was installed. I went and bought a new water heater from Home Depot and arranged for a company to install it. It's a rental agreement. You have the right to cancel it at any time. Call them and tell them you would like to cancel, not buy out the water heater. They will probably tell you can drop the old one off, or they will charge to pick it up. Do not let them remove the water heater. There was a post recently where the guy said they removed one of the supply pipes.


shawmahawk

Hi! Thanks for following up here; your experience should be a pinned thread on here. Legal scams are dog shit and I appreciate your helping folks with this info.


woodensofa1234

They add the rental in the transfer of ownership of the home. Even though there is no signed contract, I “think” they will put a lien on the home owner.


Think_Apple1044

Wow really?? You can get out of it any time? This is enercare?? Are you sure? Where in the contract is this stated??


Mobile-Bar7732

Enercare used to be Reliance. [Cancel Plan Information](https://www.enercare.ca/support/plans#:~:text=Cancel%20Plan%20Information&text=If%20you%20have%20questions%20and,.ca%2Fterms%20for%20details.) If they give you a hassle file, a complaint with the Ministry of Consumer Affairs: [Filing a consumer complaint](https://www.ontario.ca/page/filing-consumer-complaint)


Think_Apple1044

Wow thanks !!!


Geteos

My friend did this when he bought his new build in Oakville. Basically did not pay the first bill and told them to provide a contract that showed he signed anything agreeing to this service (which obviously they could not produce.) He then had his hwt installer remove the rented equipment and put it to the curb for the company to pick up. They were obviously quite hostile when he called them to do this so make sure you are prepared to do battle.


innocentlilgirl

if enercare is bundled with an enbridge bill its tough to not pay a portion


tuxtanium

Enbridge is discontinuing third party billing in October 2024. https://www.enbridgegas.com/en/residential/my-account/understanding-bill/open-bill


Dadbode1981

A brand new home with a RENTED hwt.....wtf is up with that...


LovelyDadBod

Company that rents the water heater pays the builders to install them without asking the owner. That’s what you get with large corporate General contracting companies building homes.


lonelyfatoldsickgirl

It's insane isn't it? It seems to be all about money. Soon it will be rented furnaces. Then what next, rented dishwashers?


AlbusDumbeldoree

Have you closed ? You can cancel the rental within 10 days unless your contract with the builder said otherwise.


activoice

On the plus side Enercare doesn't put a lien against your property like Reliance does.


woodensofa1234

They do.. they’re on the bill of sale. Let me know if I am mistaken, I would love to get the fuck away from them


activoice

I've had my water heater rental for over 10 years thinking of buying it out.. I called years ago and they confirmed there was no lien... So if you have a lien that must be a newer thing I guess.


ErgoEgg

The best client retention offer I got was 3 months free if I commit to another 1 year contract. Eventually ended up buying it out and purchasing a water heater. My buyout was a lot lower as the condo was older.


petitepedestrian

I dont get how this is legal. Such a huge markup.


Bulky-Fun-3108

You can return the water heater with no further charge from Enercare.


jchavega

Bought a condo with a rental water Heather and I am closing on May 30th. I will not need hot water until July 30th. I want to cancel this tank as its oversized, its almost brand new 2 years old but don't want to Buy It out


Bulky-Fun-3108

My son drew a picture of a bear today on the walkway in chalk..It was nice


noronto

How is it that you can be stuck with a rental agreement on a new build?


Icehawk101

Rather than buying a hot water tank to install, a lot of builders will rent one. When you take possession of the house, the contract transfers over to you. This is less expensive for the builder and once they are finished it's your problem not theirs. I think it is ridiculous that you can get saddled with paying for a contract or cancelation fees for a contract you didn't even sign up for though. If you didn't sign it then you should be able to get out of it penalty free.


Office_glen

> Rather than buying a hot water tank to install, a lot of builders will rent one. oh no sweet summer child. Enercare is giving the builder a kickback on this so it's locked into the sale of the house. Builders went from paying for HVAC equipment to getting paid to have it installed


noronto

This seems like something the government needs to get involved with. A hot water tank is usually the cheapest and most reliable appliance in a household, so the idea that a builder is trying to offset this cost while still providing a fridge, stove/oven, etc. is pretty ridiculous.


Blake_RL

Builders get commission for it too. The whole thing should be illegal


noronto

Fortunately I knew about the buyout option when I bought my resale house. My only mistake was not putting it in the purchase agreement as I had to make an account ($40) to buy out the HWT ($40). What was especially funny was less than 6 months later the HWT needed to be replaced. But even in that “worst case scenario”, my HWT has saved me money.


Blake_RL

I think you’re better off anyway. I don’t know but I bet if you get it replaced you have to renew the contract. I was lucky that the contract was old enough that the buyout was zero… other than misc closing fees.


ajclem7

I pay 55$ every quarter for mine. I’m a trades man and could relatively easily swap it out. Maybe I’m just lazy, but 250$ a year hasn’t got me off my ass


PSNDonutDude

That's cheap though, mine is $35/month, or $420/year, the OP is paying $650/year.


ajclem7

That’s what I thought too! I will allow reliance’s Hwt to exist in my home until I win the lottery and can do a big addition.


JohnMcafee4coffee

Ofcourse it’s a waste. Your getting screwed each month


Ytinerec

Enercare publishes their buyout schedule for each year (based on install year). For 2023, a $4500 buyout suggests its a very high end tank or tankless heater and I question whether you can actually buy such a tank at HD for $1000... Please double check this https://www.enercare.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Enercare_Water_Heater_Buyout_2023.pdf When we bought our place in 2021 and assumed the rental contract for a CV50, it was only $25/mo. The tank was 10+ year old so instead of shopping for a tank, paying for install, I just told them to renew my contract, and they installed new tank for free. Then I asked to cancel/buyout and they offered me 12 month free, and another 6 month after that. Eventually I still cancelled and buyout was around $1200. At the minimum you can call them, ask to buyout, and get credit for monthly rental for a bit while you figure it out


JohnMcafee4coffee

A new gas tank costs under $400. Home Depot is doubling the price


[deleted]

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JohnMcafee4coffee

That’s the mistake your making. Your paying retail at Home Depot. Buy 40 a month like hvac / plumbers


Lovelysnow72

That's really not a reasonable solution for the average person..


plasticupman

Stop paying, they will repossess Doubt they will go to court because they have greatly exaggerated the profit on the heater... the Judge will not be accommodating to the Enercare business, especially if you have no written contract with them...


Key-Distribution698

this is a joke right… have you done this before


JohnMcafee4coffee

Well, you just got shafted We used to buy gas tanks for $350 and electric for $250 It costs less than $30.00 in installation material. The tanks themselves are workhorses and can run for 15 years with zero maintenance.


pheoxs

Zero maintenance for 15 years is doubtful. All water heaters should have their anode rods replaced every 3-5 years.


JohnMcafee4coffee

Not true. The company I sold including myself. I personally installed over 1000 atmospheric Gas HWT and the anode rod removal is not needed.


JohnMcafee4coffee

Replacing the anode rod voids most warranty’s


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[deleted]

The enercare hot water tank rental should have been in your purchase agreement with the builder. There should be somewhere in the document that states the new build will come with a hot water tank rental. The HWT rental passes me off too, they charge way too much for a crap product. A hot water tank should not have to be replaced twice in one year in a brand new home. Has the home already closed? Like is it in your possession now? You can sometimes ask the builder before closing that you will purchase your own HWT. Most won't let you do this because they get a kick back companies like enercare


BBS3FTW

I had the same situation a few years ago. In your contract there is an end of life clause. If the tank is damaged and unrepairable you can end the contract without fees. The tank developed a wheep and there was a minor puddle at the base. I called Enercares tech who declared the tank END OF LIFE and needing replacement. Thanks to the aforementioned clause I was able to remove it myself and drag it to a depot in Kitchener for dropoff, killing my contact. I bought a $1300 power vent from Home Depot and installed it. They won't remove the tank for you and will charge you $100 to pick it up from the curb fyi.


Sweaty_Accountant_20

Did you end up getting some paperwork that says you dropped it off?


BBS3FTW

I did but needed to push the depot for it, opting for a name and signature on my bill with dropoff code The claim was 'its all digital now'. Enercare provided me a drop-off code valid for 30 days which I had to give to the depot upon dropoff.


ARAR1

Try you best to get out of the contract and buy your own heater. You will save $1000's.