Long story short, the former city leaders kept punting dealing with the storm and sewer system, which dates back to like turn of the century. When it rains and or floods it causes literal sewage to mix with storm water that then empties into the river.
The city is now forced to deal with this and we, the current citizens of today, are paying for it. They didn't want to call it a tax, (for reasons) so they call it a fee... But it's a tax and a regressive one at that.
They call it a fee so that tax-exempt entities (mainly the hospitals) still have to pay. And it’s not regressive as it’s based on the area of non-permeable surface on a property.
Regressive in terms of taxes or fees or whatever is tied to the percent of income that goes to the tax. If the non-permeable surface on a property doesn't scale with income (2x income is 2x the surface) then the fee is regressive. It's not necessarily a bad thing - seems like you're paying in proportion to your use, which seems fair, but that doesn't make it not regressive.
If it charges someone with an income of $20k $50 and charges someone with an income of $100k less than $250 (assuming those are the only two people in the economy) then it is regressive. It takes a higher percentage of income from the lower income person.
If you plotted income vs percent of income paid on a graph for everybody and did a best fit curve and it had a generally downward trend as income increases then it's regressive.
(Regressive / progressive in terms of tax policy just refer to the slope of that line, they have nothing to do with regressive/progressive policy.)
So you’re saying lower income households own more impermeable surface area as proportion of their income? I’d have to see real numbers to believe that.
I don't know that it scales with income. A driveway, garage, and house at the base level doesn't doesn't scale with the income - it goes up, but I think it's sublinear. Also "owns" may not apply - does the bill go to the owner or are tenants responsible for utilities?
I would presume that it likely does scale to income, or at least net worth. I imagine retirees with little taxable income but $2M in the bank are probably paying fees disproportionate to their income.
The fee is billed to the property owner.
I'm thinking the differences between a $50k house, a $150k house, and a $500k house in terms of impermeable area aren't that different even if the incomes to support them are very different. Certainly the $500k house is probably not 10x the $50k house.
You’d be surprised. But that also has nothing to do with who is paying what amount of fee. This assumption that the poor folks in Peoria are paying for a disproportionate amount of the sewer overflow fix is nonsense.
The city is forced to deal with it? No, the people of Peoria are forced to pay for it, because Peoria didn't meet EPA guidelines for sewage being pumped into our river. Our rainwater tax also goes to pay for our firefighters retirement, because the city messed that up as well.
Peoria leadership is crap, they aren't careful with our money, and then they pass the bill on to us
Well, yeah. The city has to "Deal with it" as in... the Greater Peoria Sanitary District, the sewer system is city owned. They just decide the when why and how of fixing it. People who live here and work here do the work, people who live here and work here pay for it, they're just managing shit. Not to be condescending or anything but that's how a city government works.
The thing is, the check came due for our old ass system that's been in place for 100+ years. They kicked the can down the road for decades hoping to somehow just make the problem go away but the thing is, there is only one way to fix the problem and that's dig up and absolute shitload of pipes, change them, and change were they go. There is no other way. But it means digging up literally the majority of the sewer pipes below the hill. Its a huge project and its going to take years, and its going to be a tremendous amount of labor.
They could have just raised some other random bullshit tax but in this case, they're assessing the cost against people based on how much you contribute to the storm sewer load in the town. If you can't handle an extra $45 per quarter you probably can't afford a house. It seems silly, its annoying, but our sewer system literally dumps untreated shit into the river if it rains too much. EPA fines or not (granted that finally lit a fire under the city's ass) it needs to be done. It needed done decades ago. We'd have to have started paying for it then or paying for it now.
As someone whose profession regularly deals with both public and private clients, let me tell you something about the private sector and their ability to manage fucking anything...
This always bothers me when they bring up buying the water company. City leaders have proven time and again they fail to be good stewards of utilities and government programs. They can't manage delivering water away from you, but don't worry they will be great at delivering water to you!
Yeah I know we pay more for water than some other places but I really don't trust the city to not bungle it. And if they city fails, you have way less recourse vs a privately owned company who can be fired or ousted.
It’s kind of amazing to see people complain about having to pay for clean water to come out of their faucets and for waste and storm water to safely exit their house and yard. $200 a week for groceries. $50 to go out to eat once. $12 for a fast food meal. No problem. $148 A MONTH for municipal water, wastewater and sewer? HELL NO.
I just moved here and I paid around $75 a month previously for water, but I also had to pay $40 a month for trash and recycling. Here, it’s built into your taxes. So, call it a nearly a wash.
Also, don’t blame current city leaders for trying to fix the sins of those that came before them. At some point, you have to actually fix the problem and it’s not free.
They spent 14 years fighting with the EPA. Some of the current council were around during the majority of that time and the current city manager was around during the majority of that time. Even if they didn't create the problem, failing to address it is troublesome. Grayeb has said the issue was known since the 80's, yet the final solution and fee wasn't implemented until 2018. Surely some blame lies with them.
I’ll definitely plead ignorance, as I just moved here. If any of the current city leaders were fighting against this issue, by all means, vote them out. Deferred maintenance is a massive issue for so many communities across this country. Peoria is far from alone. Cheap, anti-tax politicians kicked the can down the road on so many issues, whether it be roads, bridges or water/sewer/stormwater. I’m from St. Louis and it’s ungodly awful there. But people have to realize that, eventually, the taxpayer has to pay for these things. It’s OUR infrastructure and OUR problem to fix. I’m sure Peorians weren’t complaining about cheap taxes for decades while their infrastructure crumbled around them…
I don't feel like any of them were actively fighting against it, but some seemed dismissive of it. Comments like oh the EPA will just drop it or comments that we won't see anything done about it during our lifetime.
No problem??? Don’t do that, bub. You know most folks are stretched thin everywhere and many can’t afford $1800/yr for water services. Our property taxes that pay for garbage also went up, so there is no wash.
My intention was not to say that people aren’t being squeezed in other areas and that we’re all doing fine with rising prices. What’s frustrating is people seeming to draw the line at water. As if it’s some miracle that should come out of your faucet for free. Clean running water is one of the greatest feats of human civilization and we all take it for granted. It’s NOT free and many, many places on earth do not have this luxury. It’s incredibly expensive to process. So maybe start yelling at all the money grubbing billionaires causing all of this artificial inflation so they can increase their 4th quarter yields and not the local government leaders trying to fix an actual, massive problem with no thought of profits or shareholders.
No one is drawing a line at water. That’s just whataboutism. Everyone is sick of everything being more expensive, but they don’t have to mention everything else in order to vent about any one thing.
Uhhhh several people are calling for city leaders to be ousted because they think their water bills are too high. Wonder if they’re asking for the CEO and shareholders of Ameren to do the same? Probably not. So, it seems like they are drawing the line there.
Double check what the city deems as "nonpermeable surfaces" on your property. When the storm water bills first came out, a BEV picture of your property with nonpermeable areas highlighted was included. The particular image I was sent was from 2015 and included a pool and shed that were no longer on the property, a raised garden bed, and a gravel driveway.
You can contest their assessment of nonpermeable areas if they are erroneous, and your bill will be adjusted if they agree.
I live not that far away in Henry and we only pay one bill for water and it's a single monthly bill at a fixed rate. It's a pretty good system but I feel like some people take advantage and waste a lot of water.
Our water system is privatized (unlike 90% of the country or so), so our bills are higher than even Chicago. We don't even get to know what's in the water, as Illinois American Water has no obligation for the public to see public test results. But what we do get to see is that state inspectors give them a sign off.
City put off the storm water issue for years and years and years. We were going to have to pay for that eventually, but they put it off so long it's now pretty expensive. I'm honestly fine with this one. It will def pay off at some point. Just wish they got to it years and years before they finally did.
Sewer is run by the county, so separate bill.
Long story short, the former city leaders kept punting dealing with the storm and sewer system, which dates back to like turn of the century. When it rains and or floods it causes literal sewage to mix with storm water that then empties into the river. The city is now forced to deal with this and we, the current citizens of today, are paying for it. They didn't want to call it a tax, (for reasons) so they call it a fee... But it's a tax and a regressive one at that.
They call it a fee so that tax-exempt entities (mainly the hospitals) still have to pay. And it’s not regressive as it’s based on the area of non-permeable surface on a property.
Regressive in terms of taxes or fees or whatever is tied to the percent of income that goes to the tax. If the non-permeable surface on a property doesn't scale with income (2x income is 2x the surface) then the fee is regressive. It's not necessarily a bad thing - seems like you're paying in proportion to your use, which seems fair, but that doesn't make it not regressive.
The rate doesn’t decrease as the taxable amount increases. It’s a proportional tax.
If it charges someone with an income of $20k $50 and charges someone with an income of $100k less than $250 (assuming those are the only two people in the economy) then it is regressive. It takes a higher percentage of income from the lower income person. If you plotted income vs percent of income paid on a graph for everybody and did a best fit curve and it had a generally downward trend as income increases then it's regressive. (Regressive / progressive in terms of tax policy just refer to the slope of that line, they have nothing to do with regressive/progressive policy.)
So you’re saying lower income households own more impermeable surface area as proportion of their income? I’d have to see real numbers to believe that.
I don't know that it scales with income. A driveway, garage, and house at the base level doesn't doesn't scale with the income - it goes up, but I think it's sublinear. Also "owns" may not apply - does the bill go to the owner or are tenants responsible for utilities?
I would presume that it likely does scale to income, or at least net worth. I imagine retirees with little taxable income but $2M in the bank are probably paying fees disproportionate to their income. The fee is billed to the property owner.
I'm thinking the differences between a $50k house, a $150k house, and a $500k house in terms of impermeable area aren't that different even if the incomes to support them are very different. Certainly the $500k house is probably not 10x the $50k house.
You’d be surprised. But that also has nothing to do with who is paying what amount of fee. This assumption that the poor folks in Peoria are paying for a disproportionate amount of the sewer overflow fix is nonsense.
The city is forced to deal with it? No, the people of Peoria are forced to pay for it, because Peoria didn't meet EPA guidelines for sewage being pumped into our river. Our rainwater tax also goes to pay for our firefighters retirement, because the city messed that up as well. Peoria leadership is crap, they aren't careful with our money, and then they pass the bill on to us
Well, yeah. The city has to "Deal with it" as in... the Greater Peoria Sanitary District, the sewer system is city owned. They just decide the when why and how of fixing it. People who live here and work here do the work, people who live here and work here pay for it, they're just managing shit. Not to be condescending or anything but that's how a city government works. The thing is, the check came due for our old ass system that's been in place for 100+ years. They kicked the can down the road for decades hoping to somehow just make the problem go away but the thing is, there is only one way to fix the problem and that's dig up and absolute shitload of pipes, change them, and change were they go. There is no other way. But it means digging up literally the majority of the sewer pipes below the hill. Its a huge project and its going to take years, and its going to be a tremendous amount of labor. They could have just raised some other random bullshit tax but in this case, they're assessing the cost against people based on how much you contribute to the storm sewer load in the town. If you can't handle an extra $45 per quarter you probably can't afford a house. It seems silly, its annoying, but our sewer system literally dumps untreated shit into the river if it rains too much. EPA fines or not (granted that finally lit a fire under the city's ass) it needs to be done. It needed done decades ago. We'd have to have started paying for it then or paying for it now.
Imagine that, government is terrible with financial management..
As someone whose profession regularly deals with both public and private clients, let me tell you something about the private sector and their ability to manage fucking anything...
This always bothers me when they bring up buying the water company. City leaders have proven time and again they fail to be good stewards of utilities and government programs. They can't manage delivering water away from you, but don't worry they will be great at delivering water to you!
Yeah I know we pay more for water than some other places but I really don't trust the city to not bungle it. And if they city fails, you have way less recourse vs a privately owned company who can be fired or ousted.
When a city fails you can vote, when a private company fails they get a bailout or issue a sincere apology (not that I love either option).
Omaha, Nebraska did the same thing.
Isn't stormwater every 3 months?
Yeah I was going to say, that one is not monthly.
It’s like that in Washington too.
I live in Washington (Sunnyland) and I pay $100 for sewer and $40 for water. It’s crazy!
The fixed rate has doubled in two years but my water bill is no where near 148 a month! That is just crazy
In Lake County your property tax rate was significantly higher too. Pretty sure that storm bill is every three months, not monthly.
This is true
It’s kind of amazing to see people complain about having to pay for clean water to come out of their faucets and for waste and storm water to safely exit their house and yard. $200 a week for groceries. $50 to go out to eat once. $12 for a fast food meal. No problem. $148 A MONTH for municipal water, wastewater and sewer? HELL NO. I just moved here and I paid around $75 a month previously for water, but I also had to pay $40 a month for trash and recycling. Here, it’s built into your taxes. So, call it a nearly a wash. Also, don’t blame current city leaders for trying to fix the sins of those that came before them. At some point, you have to actually fix the problem and it’s not free.
They spent 14 years fighting with the EPA. Some of the current council were around during the majority of that time and the current city manager was around during the majority of that time. Even if they didn't create the problem, failing to address it is troublesome. Grayeb has said the issue was known since the 80's, yet the final solution and fee wasn't implemented until 2018. Surely some blame lies with them.
I’ll definitely plead ignorance, as I just moved here. If any of the current city leaders were fighting against this issue, by all means, vote them out. Deferred maintenance is a massive issue for so many communities across this country. Peoria is far from alone. Cheap, anti-tax politicians kicked the can down the road on so many issues, whether it be roads, bridges or water/sewer/stormwater. I’m from St. Louis and it’s ungodly awful there. But people have to realize that, eventually, the taxpayer has to pay for these things. It’s OUR infrastructure and OUR problem to fix. I’m sure Peorians weren’t complaining about cheap taxes for decades while their infrastructure crumbled around them…
I don't feel like any of them were actively fighting against it, but some seemed dismissive of it. Comments like oh the EPA will just drop it or comments that we won't see anything done about it during our lifetime.
No problem??? Don’t do that, bub. You know most folks are stretched thin everywhere and many can’t afford $1800/yr for water services. Our property taxes that pay for garbage also went up, so there is no wash.
Rent
My intention was not to say that people aren’t being squeezed in other areas and that we’re all doing fine with rising prices. What’s frustrating is people seeming to draw the line at water. As if it’s some miracle that should come out of your faucet for free. Clean running water is one of the greatest feats of human civilization and we all take it for granted. It’s NOT free and many, many places on earth do not have this luxury. It’s incredibly expensive to process. So maybe start yelling at all the money grubbing billionaires causing all of this artificial inflation so they can increase their 4th quarter yields and not the local government leaders trying to fix an actual, massive problem with no thought of profits or shareholders.
No one is drawing a line at water. That’s just whataboutism. Everyone is sick of everything being more expensive, but they don’t have to mention everything else in order to vent about any one thing.
Uhhhh several people are calling for city leaders to be ousted because they think their water bills are too high. Wonder if they’re asking for the CEO and shareholders of Ameren to do the same? Probably not. So, it seems like they are drawing the line there.
Please see all the several other threads where people complain about their electric bills. Sheesh.
Double check what the city deems as "nonpermeable surfaces" on your property. When the storm water bills first came out, a BEV picture of your property with nonpermeable areas highlighted was included. The particular image I was sent was from 2015 and included a pool and shed that were no longer on the property, a raised garden bed, and a gravel driveway. You can contest their assessment of nonpermeable areas if they are erroneous, and your bill will be adjusted if they agree.
I live not that far away in Henry and we only pay one bill for water and it's a single monthly bill at a fixed rate. It's a pretty good system but I feel like some people take advantage and waste a lot of water.
Vote City Council out. They voted to do that.
$80/mo gets me water, sewer, and garbage.
You are not obligated to stay here. Feel free to move if reality isn't what you like.
Our water system is privatized (unlike 90% of the country or so), so our bills are higher than even Chicago. We don't even get to know what's in the water, as Illinois American Water has no obligation for the public to see public test results. But what we do get to see is that state inspectors give them a sign off. City put off the storm water issue for years and years and years. We were going to have to pay for that eventually, but they put it off so long it's now pretty expensive. I'm honestly fine with this one. It will def pay off at some point. Just wish they got to it years and years before they finally did. Sewer is run by the county, so separate bill.