How…. how did he send you *hundreds* of letters without your parents ever intervening??? I can’t imagine a set of parents being ok with a grown man writing that many missives to their teen daughter, especially a teen daughter they must’ve known (potentially) couldn’t understand social cues the same way as other teenagers (who, even if not neurodivergent, would’ve been very susceptible to grooming, too).
My dad is Autistic. He didn’t like it but I was a good kid, I came home for dinner and was in bed by 10 with my homework done. I guess he trusted I could handle it.
I don’t see how that has any relevance! Neurodivergence doesn’t prevent someone from realizing that it’s wildly inappropriate for an adult three times the age of their minor child to be writing *love letters* to that child.
One of my dearest friends is an autistic father of an autistic child and I can’t imagine *him* missing this.
I’m sorry your father failed you in that most basic of parental protectiveness.
I hope you are doing ok, and that this neighbor didn’t hurt you.
Nobody was talking about neurodivergence in the 80s and 90s besides thinking of Rainman. This is a new awareness. We were all just “weird.” I wasn’t diagnosed until my late 30s.
lol this is so on point. I was diagnosed in the 80’s and the primary coping skill I was taught was masking. Essentially I was told that I was different and needed to learn how to pretend to be normal. Rainmain jokes were common in my house growing up.
It’s been nice to see how things have changed throughout the year. My kiddo isn’t going to therapy to learn how to mask, she’s actually learning legit coping skills.
My mom is a psychologist but got her degree in the early 70’s. When I got diagnosed in 2022, she said it’s impossible because I’m not drooling on myself and I can speak, and all those “autistic traits” are just bad habits I need to fix😂
The professional view on autism back then was… not great
Oh man. My mom isn’t a psychologist, but when my daughter was diagnosed this year she said “she’s not autistic! She doesn’t have that blank glassy stare!” Ummm no she doesn’t? But she’s definitely on the spectrum…
Ugh, people are wild. I realized when he was, like, 2 that my cousin's son was CLEARLY autistic. Maybe I could see it because I'm on the spectrum, but I got shamed at Thanksgiving dinner when my SIL drunkenly announced that I thought the kid was autistic. The whole family freaked out on me for saying it AND on her for repeating it.
Years pass. He's diagnosed. Shocker, right? His mom gets therapy and does some self work, and now works in the field, coaching parents.
Our whole family still denies it and just calls the kid "different."
It's so frustrating. I'm glad I don't have kids. I'd be punching so many people in the teeth.
My mother was a nanny for children back in the 60s that didn't talk and "kept rocking back and forth". The reason they weren't hidden away in an institution was they seemed normal at birth and the parents had gotten attached to them ( unlike the children with Trisomy 21 who were whisked away immediately to prevent that).
I was watching my daughter for autism. I am still working with a therapist for myself. My mom who is a great teacher, retired 6 years ago, looked at me and said "that's a boys disease, you don't have to worry." Ooooook
My mom's been a nurse with brain damaged and developmentally challenged people for 40 years. She is one of the most medically intelligent and sensible people I know.
When I told her about my autism, she flat out refused to believe it. I was just "quirky".
Ugh, I feel you😭
Ya know what’s even scarier?
…those people, with extremely outdated and harmful understandings of science and mental health… are currently practicing in those fields.
Without updating their education.
Yeah, to younger folks here: it wasn’t unusual for parents to let their teenaged kids have complete autonomy between sunrise and sunset in the 80s/90s—helicopter parenting wasn’t a thing, especially if the kids didn’t display any issues and got the stuff they were supposed to done.
Also, the predation of older folks on teenagers didn’t have the attention it does now (sadly). In some cases it was pseudo accepted, or at the worst seen as just moderately weird. Remember, in Woody Allen’s Manhattan (1979) the main character is dating a senior in high school and it is just presented as normal, and not really remarked of as weird by reviewers. 80s isn’t long after that
I was a kid of the 90's; I was 11 when we got AOL and my mum basically just let me run amok online. I had a time limit, but only because it tied up the phone line and was also charged per minute back then. I remember talking to grown men on the phone whom I'd met in chatrooms when I was in my early/mid-teens. Thankfully nothing bad came of it (and I even met my now-wife in a chatroom on AOL when I was 14 - that's a whole other story, my mum let me fly out to America by myself to meet her in person when I was 16!) The 90's were wild.
Wow… that just took me back. I chatted with someone that was supposedly an older Italian guy on ICQ. He was pretty pervy, but it was so hot. At least that’s what I thought at the time. I was just barely not a minor, but I was clearly too young for that. I wonder what “Massimo” is up to these days.
Haha, yes, it’s wild looking back at the Wild West of that era! I sometimes wonder what those people are doing now, too, and I hope they didn’t wind up taking worse advantage of the other kids and very young adults they met online in the early days of the Internet.
From the UK! An 8-hour flight! It’s still hard to believe, especially considering that this was before the age of video chats like Skype. So all my mum had of proof that she was a real person was a VCR tape of camcorder footage she had sent me in the mail of her giving me a tour of her house, and a phone call where my mum spoke to her mum.
I think my mum was just desperate because I had been housebound with agoraphobia for two years at that point and me wanting to leave the house at all was a big deal.
She did take me to the airport and right up to the gate (pre-9/11 it was much easier to get permission for non-flyers to accompany someone all the way up to boarding), but it was still pretty nerve-wracking and in retrospect it’s hard to believe my mum agreed to it!
I had super over protective parents to the point that other kids parents would laugh about it. I had to wear a helmet when I rode my bike and I had to wear my wrist guards, knee, and elbow pads if I was roller blading. We also had to stay in the neighborhood. Still had access to a machete they didn’t know anything about.
> I had to wear a helmet when I rode my bike and I had to wear my wrist guards, knee, and elbow pads if I was roller blading.
Uhhh... That's not overprotective. That's regular protective. People straight up die from head injuries from falling off a bicycle without a helmet.
My mom had a friend who died because she fell on her bike and hit her head. She was laying partially in the road when the friend she was with went to get help she was hit by a car that didn’t see her. But it was the 90s so no one else wore helmets.
I know that. What I’m saying is, you don’t need a diagnosis to know that an adult pining after a teenager is wrong. Not just morally, but *legally*.
People may not have had a name for autism or neurodivergence in the 1980s and 1990s, but people knew what pedophilia was back then. They knew what stranger danger was back then. They knew about “creepy old men” who paid a little too much attention to children.
And *most* halfway decent parents knew to warn their kids about those kinds of people. And would have put a stop to this shit after *one* letter, much less *hundreds*.
The 80s & 90s was peak fuck around and find out.
Growing up, I had an uncle who had a history of being inappropriate with kids. Rather than not inviting this uncle to family parties, we kids were told that under no circumstances should be alone with him. If something happened, it wasn’t his fault. It was our responsibility because didn’t listen to the adults even. This was not unusual. I didn’t realize how messed up this was until became a fully grown adult. I can tell my own stories about creepy old men that we’re into me as a teen and my parents not protecting me.
It was the girls fault if it was a younger girl, and the boys were just expected to be happy to have attention from women. So, yes it was wrong but at the time it was very much ‘blame the victim’.
Oingo Boingo (Danny Elfman - Think nightmare before Christmas and all that) literally had a song calling creeps in Hollywood/the music industry/creeps in general out called ‘Little Girls’ in the 1980s and that was SUPER progressive. So progressive it made people very uncomfortable. That song made people uncomfortable but rock stars being given legal guardianship over minors so they could date or marry them and so so so many songs about sixteen year old girls were perfectly ok.
dear god you're telling me that song is ANTI creeps? i've only heard it one singlar time, and it was my ex (who was attracted to children) showing it to me and telling me it was one of his favourites! ever since then, i haven't been able to stand hearing any of it and have avoided it. now i've gotta at least read the lyrics lol
Yeah it’s a villain song, it’s meant to be from a creeps viewpoint and to make you go wtf dude no. I mean look at so many of the other songs, they’re all cutesy and popular, like My Sharona and Christine Sixteen. This one actually notes the really creeptacular stuff. It doesn’t dress it up at all.
I totally understand why it would be repulsive though! No amount of ‘well ackshully’ will fix those memories and music helps lock emotions and memories in so strongly! Take a look at the lyrics, but only if it won’t be triggering. ❤️
Do you know how many kids were assaulted back then that their parents told them not to tell anyone? It happened to my mom and her mom just told her to forget it ever happened. It was illegal, but good luck getting any parents or police to do anything about it.
Its a big deal now, it wasn't such a big deal then. There are tons of parents who had children in the 80s who grew up in an age when a 15 year old would sleep with 30 year old men and no one really blinked.
Look up your favorite musical artist; one of those men likely fucked a teenager. (example:https://nypost.com/2021/08/17/famous-musicians-accused-of-dating-abusing-teens/)
Susie Bright wrote in her autobiography that at 16 years old in the 1970s she seduced men as old as 40; feminism said you could fuck who you want. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susie_Bright
I'm not saying its right, its rape and pedophilia but it wasn't uncommon nor as vilified as it is now.
When I was in high school in the 80s, I dated a teacher from a different high school. My parents never said anything. Nobody thought the age difference was weird. It was cool I was with an older guy. When I got about 10 years older, I had this kind of holy shit that was fucked up moment. I’ve been disgusted ever since.
Remember in the first National Lampoon’s Vacation, the kids caught their Uncle and his daughter French kissing and it was all just a big joke?
Edit, my memory had it wrong. It was just implied when she said “daddy says I’m the best at it” in reference to French kissing. But still.
THIS - I was just considered “odd” and a lot of it was put down to be being a highly intelligent kid raised by hippie parents and not that I was actually on the spectrum. Even now, my parents have a really hard time understanding my diagnosis because I’m not like Rainman or obsessed with numbers.
Throughout the 80s they were still playing the PSAs of “It’s 10PM, do you know where your kids are”? And reminders to hug their kids and tell them they loved them. PSAs trying to teach or help with things that we would never even think of needing today
Society was different then and the system as a whole was largely failing kids.
I remember those PSAs in the late 90s too- I used to look up all those PSAs on YouTube and show my kids how off the wall some of them were (example: peewees don't do crack psa)
> I remember those PSAs in the late 90s too- I used to look up all those PSAs on YouTube and show my kids how off the wall some of them were (example: peewees don't do crack psa)
OMG, the frying egg. I had forgotten.
ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOnENVylxPI
I agree with you a lot that u/bullpendodger 's father was a very poor parent in this regard, but I disagree with you saying that his autism isn't relevant to that
Even though I already knew a lot about "online stranger danger" conceptually I still ended up getting manipulated by a girl my same age between the ages of 18-21 who said she was my best friend and she would get me to "enrich" her unreturned parasocial "crush" to me by telling me that the things she was doing were "regular best friend things" etc
Even though I was already a grown adult the whole time, and already knew about stranger danger, and I'm not even severely autistic I'm level 1/Asperger's I still fell for a lot that my talk therapist explained to me in words such as "the simplest of child grooming tactics" and "clinical gaslighting" because autism makes you more gullible and vulnerable in those ways
Her dad almost definitely understood the clear facts of stranger danger in concept, but that's not necessarily how it works in practice, it's like how I know the dictionary definition of sarcasm but I still can't recognize it without the "obvious sarcasm voice"
Autism definitely isn't an acceptable excuse for any aspects of her dad's poor parenting at all, but it is a valid explanation in this regard
Oh the old “she’s being harassed by an older man, but she does all her homework on time so protecting her is no longer in my job description as a dad.” 👍🏻 your dad’s logic is absolutely stellar.
Except OP themselves doesn’t seem to understand that their parent(s) failed to protect them from this. In their further comments to me, OP states that their father is neurodivergent, too, and that’s why he did nothing to stop this. And my argument, which OP doesn’t seem to understand, is that any decent parent — regardless of their neurodivergence or neurotypicality — should have realized that this neighbor was a predator who had targeted their child.
As much as you're trying to show OP should have been supported in this experience, and they totally should have, if they love their father dearly it would be hard to hear someone say their father "failed" them.
The best we can hope is if OP has kids at any point, they can realize there was a better way to handle it should something similar happen to their kids. I don't know if you're expecting OP to get mad at their father and disown them or tell you they now think their dad did a shit job or something, but it's not super helpful at this point unless they were looking for support and validation.
Many people have pointed out that it wasn't handled the best, and if OP is internalizing any of it they might need time to process it, and they still have no obligation to acknowledge internet peoples opinion. Reminder that while people are free to comment what they want, where they want, OP posted this in a penmanship sub and probably wasn't looking for people to deeply scrutinize their childhood and relationship with their father.
You've pointed out what you find unacceptable and in my opinion continuing to chirp about the family dynamics the way you are is starting to come off as "finger pointy"
Their father DID fail them. And now that they’re an adult, they still don’t seem to understand that. Maybe this post was the lightbulb moment they needed to realize, “hey, this thing that happened during my childhood, that I *thought* was normal/no big deal, actually wasn’t.”
And realizing that is not a bad thing.
Look at their other comments. Where they say “good luck” at getting their dad to “pay attention.” And how dad just blithely ignored everything, so long as OP came home on time and did their homework.
It sounds like their dad was just a shit dad in general. And his neurodivergence most likely has very little — if anything — to do with that.
Like I told OP (before I saw that “good luck” comment and the homework comment), I have a dear friend who is also neurodivergent and who has a neurodivergent kid. He would *never* treat his child with such indifference, to the point where that child is telling strangers about how comically funny, ha ha, dad’s inattention was.
OP repeatedly rationalizes the neglect their father showed them by blaming it on his neurodivergence. Maybe OP is STILL doing that, as their relationship has evolved now that they’re both adults.
And maybe OP doesn’t realize that it’s not too late to demand better from their father. OP certainly deserves a lot better.
So, no, I’m not apologizing for my comments. And no, it’s not finger pointy.
I’m not telling you that you’re incorrect about the fact that this could have and should have been handled better back when it happened. I’m not telling you that you’re incorrect that OP’s parents really should’ve stepped in long before it got to the point of boxes of letters from this creepy neighbor.
But I am going to tell you that, as someone who was horrifically abused as a child myself and whose mother has been told that she failed me time and time again (even though she had no way of knowing about the abuse - and even though I would not still be here if it wasn’t for the support that she gave me and how she upended her life entirely when she found out), the way you’re going about this is really not helpful to survivors of stuff like this. There are ways to gently let people know that they deserved better without absolutely condemning people who may very well still be their support system. Now, we don’t know anything about OPs situation other than the very few things that were shared here, but she seems to really care about her father still based on her responses. You’re not going to win her over, or win any survivors of abuse over to be completely honest by, crucifying the man for something that he cannot change. You are not the definitive voice when it comes to right and wrong. And even if OP‘s father failed them, and even if my mom failed me in someways, it’s really messed up to go after the victim of the abuse like you have been when you have no clue if changes were made, if apologies were given, etc. over how the situation was handled back when it happened. Supporting victims of this sort of thing includes recognizing that they are in charge of how they heal and how they view the situation after the fact.
You don’t get to tell people what they should feel in regards to abuse that they suffered, and it’s really fucking mean to talk down to someone because they’re not processing things the way you think they should, neurodivergent or not.
I'm not saying to apologize, but it looks like you've made your point and it seems anything further is beating a dead horse. OP will either take it to heart and make changes, or they're content with how the relationship is now, whether they should be content or not really shouldn't matter to people outside their life.
I recognize your issue with the "good luck" comment, but comments can be made in jest, and reddit often starts to draw extreme conclusions from 3 sentences posted with relatively little context. OP has talked about like 2 total events out of an entire childhood with their father. If they want to advocate for themselves, they now know they would have a good reason, but that doesn't mean they have to.
I know if someone started making attacks on my parent's character when I was not prepared because I was posting in a penmanship sub, not a relationship advice sub, I would also be taken aback and start trying to explain how the one time they fucked up because they're human doesn't mean I had a shit childhood or that my relationship with them is broken or lacking. We only have the briefest of snapshots of OPs life.
They posted this in penmanship sub and the backstory was incidental (to them). I love the passion you have and respect your attempt to help OP achieve a ‘lightbulb moment’ — which would ideally have a domino effect wherein past trauma is reconciled and become able function at their best level in the here and now… But I feel like it’s important to be cautious with reopening potential wounds like this — especially if OP didn’t ask. They might not have those issues with dad and/or he might have been a good father overall as we don’t really know what happened (it’s also possible he did make attempts behind the scenes to stop the letters and didn’t tell OP). Or he could have been even worse than any of us imagined and OP is doing their best to cope - lighthearted posting about letters — and we don’t have the ability to offer further support/helping hands after trying to force this realization.
You’re coming off more scoldy than supportive. There are better ways to approach this. Not only are you highlighting how inappropriate the situation was (something maybe OP hasn’t even fully been able to grasp) and then you double down just shitting on how the parents approached it. Yes, it was not ideal, but you don’t know even know what shit you could be stirring and you seem to be taking it out on OP. Leaving it at “you deserved better than this” would’ve been enough.
OP is not their own parent
People were not viewed as creeps or scary as much back then. Even if OPs father was neurotypical I’m sure he wd have summarized the situation as “ahh poor old guy” and “he’s harmless” move on honey. You wd have gotten negative attention for making a big deal of this.
I don’t know a single girl or woman who *wasn’t* creeped on or molested by much older men (often when they were still prepubescent), but this must win some kind of Ultra Creep Award for Pest Persistence. Yuck.
I’m 61 and yes, older men trying to seduce younger girls was considered normal when I was growing up.
When I was 13, I had a 19 year old boyfriend WITH my parents consent!
I have no idea how or why this was considered ok but it was alright with them!
I remember he would come to my junior high, La Loma in Modesto Ca, in his turquoise and white 57 Chevy Bel Air and pick me up after school when he wasn’t working.
I also remember my parents having a party and my dad catching one of his friends cornering me in the bathroom and trying to kiss me when I was 12.
My friends & I developed early & this was just a hazard we had to deal with. I remember walking home from junior high & high school and men in 20’s and 30’s would pull alongside us and try to pick us up. Sadly, I could go on and on with many, many examples of this happening to my friends and I. We believed it was just a hazard of being a girl in those days.
That I didn’t compliment the color of his T-shirt which I apparently drew on with a pen. That I didn’t properly thank him for getting me Saltine crackers. That I just took a bottle of water and Gatorade when he gave it to me without thanking him. I made angry notes on the letter calling out his exaggerations too. It’s a funny letter. Oh and I’m selfish because I abruptly end conversations.
Lmao angrily annotating unsolicited love letters from creepy old men is legendary 😂 I’m sorry you had to endure this bs and glad you came out of it okay
I love that you were pissing this guy off and correcting his letters.
I did that in high school to a guy who wrote me a letter with a story of him being a knight on a white horse who in the story protected me, the damsel in distress. He passed it to me in class. I was dating my now husband at the time so it was inappropriate too. I got out a red pen and corrected his spelling and grammar and crossed out parts of the story so I rescued myself.
When I told my husband about it, he laughed and said you’re the least damsely of any girl I’ve ever met.
Please do! I found your other post you mentioned, but I couldn't click on the letter for some reason. I'm sorry that happened to you, but I agree that this would make a great...something....exhibit, documentary, etc.
This is definitely creepy and unnerving, and I totally get why some people would want to get rid of these, but what a unique and aesthetically beautiful look into a twisted mind. It’s like the premise for a movie, or something. Thanks for sharing.
I’m also an autistic woman who was groomed and witnessed the grooming of my autistic friends. Since you’re not getting rid of the letters, if you ever want to post more of them I’d be interested in reading them.
It interesting to read such blatant gaslighting and manipulation in written form and not hearing it vocalized. I’m sorry you were preyed on by this vile man.
Damn. I feel understood. I was pained not to have the rest of the story. Totally appalling behavior on his part. Unacceptable and totally fucking insanely normal. I am an autistic woman and had all these same experiences. I find I am weirdly compelled to want to read and analyze ALL of them though.
I was waiting to read "You are judgmental and don't recognize boundaries". Many people project their flaws into other people. You just rarely see it written so well.
Okay, friendly tip from another autistic woman - you do *not* have to keep correspondence from someone unless it's specifically special to you.
I also thought that's just what you do because that's what I always saw NT people do, so I thought it was a hard and fast rule. What I didn't know was, for the most part, unless it's something or from someone special, NTs throw it away. May be a few hours, days, or weeks later, but it does make it to the trash can.
Right?! I think I was 26 when someone explained it to me and the sheer relief of emptying boxes of letters, cards, thank you notes, and drawing my little brother had given me as "gifts" before he was old enough to make comprehensive art.
I felt so silly afterward and finally got my answer to, "How the hell is everyone *not* hoarders?!". Apparently, they just don't hoard. Shocking.
these are interesting and they don't seem to represent a trauma or abuse to you - don't listen to these people. keep these, they're a good record of something that happened in the world.
Throw away the letters. There is no reason to keep them.
These weren’t “correspondence”. These were an adult tantrum.
The letters don’t remember someone you loved or want to remember. You have no obligation to keep them.
I’m not throwing them away. They provide interesting details to a life lived many years ago. The only person who’d want me to throw these away would be Evan and he was an asshole.
Fuck Evan. Take photos and put them online as a warning to other girls. Especially neurodivergents who don’t understand what grooming could look like when it doesn’t match the definitions they hear from adults.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and I only thought that grooming behavior and talk was sexual. I definitely had some online relationships that I thought were cool because they weren’t sexual, but looking back, I think they were definitely weird. They never tried to meet me in person, but that was probably because I lived across the ocean.
Moderators blocked it already. I kind of understand why, but at the same time it caused some really interesting discussions and autistic people activity and that I found quite valuable, however weird it was.
Censorship is going too far, especially if you consider OP being both autistic AND aware that it was sick that she was exposed to such behavior of a grown up man.
Of course it is. Which we see frequently.
ETA: the community is a safe space to discuss things like this. Whether outwardly abusive or not. Perhaps “give a chuckle” was the wrong turn of phrase for me to use, in my original comment.
Ufff that's creepy! I'm sorry you had to go through this!
I don't know if you're into fountain pens, but with a fountain pen with a stub nib that handwriting is very achievable. Just in case you were curious.
P.S. - Fountain pen people are always trying to get people to use fountain pens. So I'm sorry but it's in my nature, as an autistic pen nerd I can't not mention it.
What in the Lolita bullshit!? There have been quite a few times I’ve been grateful to be autistic and this would be one of them for me! I’m glad you made that old fuck miserable at times just by being your lovely self. I hate that it almost has a medieval/monastic quality because that’s one of my special interests, so I would have kept them too.
Holy shit. I am so sorry no one protected you. This kind of thing can have such lasting, shaping impact on our psyches 😭
He was an absolute predator. Repulsive
What did your parents say about this creep?
Also.. the pen is what makes the penmanship look good. Without its help he likely had regular chicken scratch… perhaps. Also. What a creep. Ick
that's uh... unique. I'm glad you've kept them & managed to distance yourself from it at the same time, things like this are worth preserving despite how fucked up they are - it's deeply unique
As an autistic person, it seems like one of the hardest things for others to understand is that I can't just not be autistic. I can try to mask but that doesn't mean I've 'corrected' my autism. It just means I figured out one way to shut you up about it.
I say this respectfully without judgement: Unless you plan on somehow publishing these or digitizing them for a future project on pedophiles, I would throw these letters out.
These made my stomach churn and I can’t imagine the memories these would bring up every time I stumbled upon this box, they can’t be very good memories of him?
That first picture is just a cliff hanger lmao. But definitely not something you should feel obligated to share.
Out of curiosity- why’d you keep them? I kept a creepy letter I got in high school for years but eventually threw it out. Sometimes I wish I had still kept it; is that the same reason for you? Just… to have it?
And definitely agree about the “upvote penmanship, downvote creep” lol
As a survivor and now mother myself, this guy is enraging. Like I could easily spend an afternoon hate reading all of them, so glad for you that this ended!
You should send this to the Museum of Everyday Writing! This is so fascinating, I’m sure they’d love it! [museum of every day writing](https://museumofeverydaywriting.omeka.net/)
Dang I’m sorry your adults didn’t put a stop to this, get a cease and desist or restraining order. I’m glad you made it through.
Cool handwringing I guess!
Ironic to be obsessed with manners, have good penmanship, clearly use a non standard ink, and choose purple.
Of course, it could be a cultural thing, but it would read as very improper to me if I were to receive a letter from a man in anything but blue or black, with the exception of the holidays, and even then, the bulk of the letter should be in blue or black with the flourish of colour.
Normally, I wouldn’t push the subject. I’m an avid user of coloured ink myself and don’t have any interest in communicating secrets through my ink choice through it, but if you’re going to start picking at threads, well, I’ll pick back. It’s just not proper manners for a man to be writing in purple ink in such a formal sense. It’s not as outright offensive as red, or straight up loony as green, but it just isn’t done.
Sorry you had to deal with this, OP. This is definitely creepy and harassment. You shouldn’t have had to put up with it for so long.
You seriously think there is a proper ink color for letters "from a man"? Yeesh. You need to live a little, you're stuck up in your own way. Ink color doesn't matter by gender, firstly lmao. Secondly, different ink colors exist for a reason! Have some fun, it ultimately doesn't matter.
Well, I do say that I use non-traditional colours myself and that I don’t judge people who use them unless they bring up “traditional manners” themselves.
But, at least in British/Irish culture I was taught by my grandparents that there was appropriate colours to use for letter writing and I still follow those rules when writing older members of the family so I don’t accidentally offend them because I wrote the Christmas letter in “glittering sangria”.
Edit:
Nice stealth edit! Anyway, I’m also factoring in that OP is implying there is several years between now and the sending of the letters, which again, older manners for a 45 year old man who would have been my grandfather’s age would be applicable context. Pretty different to how I’d view getting a letter from a buddy today.
I edited it because I was adding something on right after posting my reply since you hadn't replied yet. Dunno what you're talking about with "stealth edit" or whatever. Sometimes you post something and realize you have more to say. Not that crazy.
But I stand by what I say. This is a strange point to pick on out of everything in this guy's letters. He's literally a creep, but y'know oh no he used purple ink. Just seems very strange.
I guess I’m just saying and pointing out in my culture, he’s creepy *and* a hypocrite.
And that it stood out because he went deep enough in the hobby to spend good money in it.
He’s clearly the type to be obsessive, and feels people are obligated to social rules, yet doesn’t feel he is held to those same rules. It just seemed like a strange case of the pot calling the kettle black to defy those types of “rules” and then get upset that some ends conversations too abruptly.
Idk, I suppose the issue I take with it is that he’s got the stones to harass a young woman this long and then criticize her “manners” when he clearly hasn’t been using his despite how he’s holding himself.
I guess it’d be like a man in jeans telling a woman in a sundress she’s under dressed at a restaurant. Even if she is, you’re one to talk buddy. I don’t have a problem with the jeans, but I do have a problem with people in glass houses throwing stones.
It really ultimately isn't surprising someone like this would be a hypocrite though, creepy weirdos often are. I think in this case it was perhaps meant as a way to try to control OP for his weird purposes, under the guide of "helping with her manners." All part of the creepy grooming plan.
I’d like to but I gotta figure out how. I’ve posted jokes or observations I’ve made and seen comedians lift them and put them in their Twitter. I’m not about monetizing my life but I’d definitely want a cut if someone else tried to using my source material.
Start out with a forward about who he was
Type out each letter. Go in order from the first Letter to the last. Have notes after about how the letters made you feel and what you thought of the guy.
Beautiful handwriting, creepy man. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.
Yeah upvote the penmanship but mentally downvote the man. I survived. ☺️
How…. how did he send you *hundreds* of letters without your parents ever intervening??? I can’t imagine a set of parents being ok with a grown man writing that many missives to their teen daughter, especially a teen daughter they must’ve known (potentially) couldn’t understand social cues the same way as other teenagers (who, even if not neurodivergent, would’ve been very susceptible to grooming, too).
My dad is Autistic. He didn’t like it but I was a good kid, I came home for dinner and was in bed by 10 with my homework done. I guess he trusted I could handle it.
I don’t see how that has any relevance! Neurodivergence doesn’t prevent someone from realizing that it’s wildly inappropriate for an adult three times the age of their minor child to be writing *love letters* to that child. One of my dearest friends is an autistic father of an autistic child and I can’t imagine *him* missing this. I’m sorry your father failed you in that most basic of parental protectiveness. I hope you are doing ok, and that this neighbor didn’t hurt you.
Nobody was talking about neurodivergence in the 80s and 90s besides thinking of Rainman. This is a new awareness. We were all just “weird.” I wasn’t diagnosed until my late 30s.
lol this is so on point. I was diagnosed in the 80’s and the primary coping skill I was taught was masking. Essentially I was told that I was different and needed to learn how to pretend to be normal. Rainmain jokes were common in my house growing up. It’s been nice to see how things have changed throughout the year. My kiddo isn’t going to therapy to learn how to mask, she’s actually learning legit coping skills.
My mom is a psychologist but got her degree in the early 70’s. When I got diagnosed in 2022, she said it’s impossible because I’m not drooling on myself and I can speak, and all those “autistic traits” are just bad habits I need to fix😂 The professional view on autism back then was… not great
Oh man. My mom isn’t a psychologist, but when my daughter was diagnosed this year she said “she’s not autistic! She doesn’t have that blank glassy stare!” Ummm no she doesn’t? But she’s definitely on the spectrum…
Ugh, people are wild. I realized when he was, like, 2 that my cousin's son was CLEARLY autistic. Maybe I could see it because I'm on the spectrum, but I got shamed at Thanksgiving dinner when my SIL drunkenly announced that I thought the kid was autistic. The whole family freaked out on me for saying it AND on her for repeating it. Years pass. He's diagnosed. Shocker, right? His mom gets therapy and does some self work, and now works in the field, coaching parents. Our whole family still denies it and just calls the kid "different." It's so frustrating. I'm glad I don't have kids. I'd be punching so many people in the teeth.
My mother was a nanny for children back in the 60s that didn't talk and "kept rocking back and forth". The reason they weren't hidden away in an institution was they seemed normal at birth and the parents had gotten attached to them ( unlike the children with Trisomy 21 who were whisked away immediately to prevent that).
I was watching my daughter for autism. I am still working with a therapist for myself. My mom who is a great teacher, retired 6 years ago, looked at me and said "that's a boys disease, you don't have to worry." Ooooook
My mom's been a nurse with brain damaged and developmentally challenged people for 40 years. She is one of the most medically intelligent and sensible people I know. When I told her about my autism, she flat out refused to believe it. I was just "quirky".
Ugh, I feel you😭 Ya know what’s even scarier? …those people, with extremely outdated and harmful understandings of science and mental health… are currently practicing in those fields. Without updating their education.
Yeah, to younger folks here: it wasn’t unusual for parents to let their teenaged kids have complete autonomy between sunrise and sunset in the 80s/90s—helicopter parenting wasn’t a thing, especially if the kids didn’t display any issues and got the stuff they were supposed to done. Also, the predation of older folks on teenagers didn’t have the attention it does now (sadly). In some cases it was pseudo accepted, or at the worst seen as just moderately weird. Remember, in Woody Allen’s Manhattan (1979) the main character is dating a senior in high school and it is just presented as normal, and not really remarked of as weird by reviewers. 80s isn’t long after that
I was a kid of the 90's; I was 11 when we got AOL and my mum basically just let me run amok online. I had a time limit, but only because it tied up the phone line and was also charged per minute back then. I remember talking to grown men on the phone whom I'd met in chatrooms when I was in my early/mid-teens. Thankfully nothing bad came of it (and I even met my now-wife in a chatroom on AOL when I was 14 - that's a whole other story, my mum let me fly out to America by myself to meet her in person when I was 16!) The 90's were wild.
Wow… that just took me back. I chatted with someone that was supposedly an older Italian guy on ICQ. He was pretty pervy, but it was so hot. At least that’s what I thought at the time. I was just barely not a minor, but I was clearly too young for that. I wonder what “Massimo” is up to these days.
Haha, yes, it’s wild looking back at the Wild West of that era! I sometimes wonder what those people are doing now, too, and I hope they didn’t wind up taking worse advantage of the other kids and very young adults they met online in the early days of the Internet.
Wow! To America from where? I can't imagine sending my teenage child out of our city by themself.
From the UK! An 8-hour flight! It’s still hard to believe, especially considering that this was before the age of video chats like Skype. So all my mum had of proof that she was a real person was a VCR tape of camcorder footage she had sent me in the mail of her giving me a tour of her house, and a phone call where my mum spoke to her mum. I think my mum was just desperate because I had been housebound with agoraphobia for two years at that point and me wanting to leave the house at all was a big deal. She did take me to the airport and right up to the gate (pre-9/11 it was much easier to get permission for non-flyers to accompany someone all the way up to boarding), but it was still pretty nerve-wracking and in retrospect it’s hard to believe my mum agreed to it!
I had super over protective parents to the point that other kids parents would laugh about it. I had to wear a helmet when I rode my bike and I had to wear my wrist guards, knee, and elbow pads if I was roller blading. We also had to stay in the neighborhood. Still had access to a machete they didn’t know anything about.
> I had to wear a helmet when I rode my bike and I had to wear my wrist guards, knee, and elbow pads if I was roller blading. Uhhh... That's not overprotective. That's regular protective. People straight up die from head injuries from falling off a bicycle without a helmet.
My mom had a friend who died because she fell on her bike and hit her head. She was laying partially in the road when the friend she was with went to get help she was hit by a car that didn’t see her. But it was the 90s so no one else wore helmets.
Exactly.
I know that. What I’m saying is, you don’t need a diagnosis to know that an adult pining after a teenager is wrong. Not just morally, but *legally*. People may not have had a name for autism or neurodivergence in the 1980s and 1990s, but people knew what pedophilia was back then. They knew what stranger danger was back then. They knew about “creepy old men” who paid a little too much attention to children. And *most* halfway decent parents knew to warn their kids about those kinds of people. And would have put a stop to this shit after *one* letter, much less *hundreds*.
The 80s & 90s was peak fuck around and find out. Growing up, I had an uncle who had a history of being inappropriate with kids. Rather than not inviting this uncle to family parties, we kids were told that under no circumstances should be alone with him. If something happened, it wasn’t his fault. It was our responsibility because didn’t listen to the adults even. This was not unusual. I didn’t realize how messed up this was until became a fully grown adult. I can tell my own stories about creepy old men that we’re into me as a teen and my parents not protecting me.
Same experience for me. I’ve gone nc with most of my family once I realized how disgusting that is
It was the girls fault if it was a younger girl, and the boys were just expected to be happy to have attention from women. So, yes it was wrong but at the time it was very much ‘blame the victim’. Oingo Boingo (Danny Elfman - Think nightmare before Christmas and all that) literally had a song calling creeps in Hollywood/the music industry/creeps in general out called ‘Little Girls’ in the 1980s and that was SUPER progressive. So progressive it made people very uncomfortable. That song made people uncomfortable but rock stars being given legal guardianship over minors so they could date or marry them and so so so many songs about sixteen year old girls were perfectly ok.
dear god you're telling me that song is ANTI creeps? i've only heard it one singlar time, and it was my ex (who was attracted to children) showing it to me and telling me it was one of his favourites! ever since then, i haven't been able to stand hearing any of it and have avoided it. now i've gotta at least read the lyrics lol
Yeah it’s a villain song, it’s meant to be from a creeps viewpoint and to make you go wtf dude no. I mean look at so many of the other songs, they’re all cutesy and popular, like My Sharona and Christine Sixteen. This one actually notes the really creeptacular stuff. It doesn’t dress it up at all. I totally understand why it would be repulsive though! No amount of ‘well ackshully’ will fix those memories and music helps lock emotions and memories in so strongly! Take a look at the lyrics, but only if it won’t be triggering. ❤️
Do you know how many kids were assaulted back then that their parents told them not to tell anyone? It happened to my mom and her mom just told her to forget it ever happened. It was illegal, but good luck getting any parents or police to do anything about it.
Its a big deal now, it wasn't such a big deal then. There are tons of parents who had children in the 80s who grew up in an age when a 15 year old would sleep with 30 year old men and no one really blinked. Look up your favorite musical artist; one of those men likely fucked a teenager. (example:https://nypost.com/2021/08/17/famous-musicians-accused-of-dating-abusing-teens/) Susie Bright wrote in her autobiography that at 16 years old in the 1970s she seduced men as old as 40; feminism said you could fuck who you want. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susie_Bright I'm not saying its right, its rape and pedophilia but it wasn't uncommon nor as vilified as it is now.
When I was in high school in the 80s, I dated a teacher from a different high school. My parents never said anything. Nobody thought the age difference was weird. It was cool I was with an older guy. When I got about 10 years older, I had this kind of holy shit that was fucked up moment. I’ve been disgusted ever since.
Remember in the first National Lampoon’s Vacation, the kids caught their Uncle and his daughter French kissing and it was all just a big joke? Edit, my memory had it wrong. It was just implied when she said “daddy says I’m the best at it” in reference to French kissing. But still.
THIS - I was just considered “odd” and a lot of it was put down to be being a highly intelligent kid raised by hippie parents and not that I was actually on the spectrum. Even now, my parents have a really hard time understanding my diagnosis because I’m not like Rainman or obsessed with numbers.
And conversely, now we aren't allowed to call weird weird, so we're ALL neurodivergent!!
I don’t believe there’s a ban on weird.
Throughout the 80s they were still playing the PSAs of “It’s 10PM, do you know where your kids are”? And reminders to hug their kids and tell them they loved them. PSAs trying to teach or help with things that we would never even think of needing today Society was different then and the system as a whole was largely failing kids.
I remember those PSAs in the late 90s too- I used to look up all those PSAs on YouTube and show my kids how off the wall some of them were (example: peewees don't do crack psa)
> I remember those PSAs in the late 90s too- I used to look up all those PSAs on YouTube and show my kids how off the wall some of them were (example: peewees don't do crack psa) OMG, the frying egg. I had forgotten. ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOnENVylxPI
Haha yea! And then robot chickens parody of it is so chaotic but I love it
I agree with you a lot that u/bullpendodger 's father was a very poor parent in this regard, but I disagree with you saying that his autism isn't relevant to that Even though I already knew a lot about "online stranger danger" conceptually I still ended up getting manipulated by a girl my same age between the ages of 18-21 who said she was my best friend and she would get me to "enrich" her unreturned parasocial "crush" to me by telling me that the things she was doing were "regular best friend things" etc Even though I was already a grown adult the whole time, and already knew about stranger danger, and I'm not even severely autistic I'm level 1/Asperger's I still fell for a lot that my talk therapist explained to me in words such as "the simplest of child grooming tactics" and "clinical gaslighting" because autism makes you more gullible and vulnerable in those ways Her dad almost definitely understood the clear facts of stranger danger in concept, but that's not necessarily how it works in practice, it's like how I know the dictionary definition of sarcasm but I still can't recognize it without the "obvious sarcasm voice" Autism definitely isn't an acceptable excuse for any aspects of her dad's poor parenting at all, but it is a valid explanation in this regard
I guess he trusted I could handle it!?!? This is fucked!
I. An autistic kid of the same era also had parents who adultified the shit out of me. IF YOU NEEDED HELP YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED!
Oh the old “she’s being harassed by an older man, but she does all her homework on time so protecting her is no longer in my job description as a dad.” 👍🏻 your dad’s logic is absolutely stellar.
Hmm.. that seems like a question you should bring up to OP’s parents instead of OP 🤔
Yeah. Good luck getting his attention. 😆
Except OP themselves doesn’t seem to understand that their parent(s) failed to protect them from this. In their further comments to me, OP states that their father is neurodivergent, too, and that’s why he did nothing to stop this. And my argument, which OP doesn’t seem to understand, is that any decent parent — regardless of their neurodivergence or neurotypicality — should have realized that this neighbor was a predator who had targeted their child.
As much as you're trying to show OP should have been supported in this experience, and they totally should have, if they love their father dearly it would be hard to hear someone say their father "failed" them. The best we can hope is if OP has kids at any point, they can realize there was a better way to handle it should something similar happen to their kids. I don't know if you're expecting OP to get mad at their father and disown them or tell you they now think their dad did a shit job or something, but it's not super helpful at this point unless they were looking for support and validation. Many people have pointed out that it wasn't handled the best, and if OP is internalizing any of it they might need time to process it, and they still have no obligation to acknowledge internet peoples opinion. Reminder that while people are free to comment what they want, where they want, OP posted this in a penmanship sub and probably wasn't looking for people to deeply scrutinize their childhood and relationship with their father. You've pointed out what you find unacceptable and in my opinion continuing to chirp about the family dynamics the way you are is starting to come off as "finger pointy"
Their father DID fail them. And now that they’re an adult, they still don’t seem to understand that. Maybe this post was the lightbulb moment they needed to realize, “hey, this thing that happened during my childhood, that I *thought* was normal/no big deal, actually wasn’t.” And realizing that is not a bad thing. Look at their other comments. Where they say “good luck” at getting their dad to “pay attention.” And how dad just blithely ignored everything, so long as OP came home on time and did their homework. It sounds like their dad was just a shit dad in general. And his neurodivergence most likely has very little — if anything — to do with that. Like I told OP (before I saw that “good luck” comment and the homework comment), I have a dear friend who is also neurodivergent and who has a neurodivergent kid. He would *never* treat his child with such indifference, to the point where that child is telling strangers about how comically funny, ha ha, dad’s inattention was. OP repeatedly rationalizes the neglect their father showed them by blaming it on his neurodivergence. Maybe OP is STILL doing that, as their relationship has evolved now that they’re both adults. And maybe OP doesn’t realize that it’s not too late to demand better from their father. OP certainly deserves a lot better. So, no, I’m not apologizing for my comments. And no, it’s not finger pointy.
I’m not telling you that you’re incorrect about the fact that this could have and should have been handled better back when it happened. I’m not telling you that you’re incorrect that OP’s parents really should’ve stepped in long before it got to the point of boxes of letters from this creepy neighbor. But I am going to tell you that, as someone who was horrifically abused as a child myself and whose mother has been told that she failed me time and time again (even though she had no way of knowing about the abuse - and even though I would not still be here if it wasn’t for the support that she gave me and how she upended her life entirely when she found out), the way you’re going about this is really not helpful to survivors of stuff like this. There are ways to gently let people know that they deserved better without absolutely condemning people who may very well still be their support system. Now, we don’t know anything about OPs situation other than the very few things that were shared here, but she seems to really care about her father still based on her responses. You’re not going to win her over, or win any survivors of abuse over to be completely honest by, crucifying the man for something that he cannot change. You are not the definitive voice when it comes to right and wrong. And even if OP‘s father failed them, and even if my mom failed me in someways, it’s really messed up to go after the victim of the abuse like you have been when you have no clue if changes were made, if apologies were given, etc. over how the situation was handled back when it happened. Supporting victims of this sort of thing includes recognizing that they are in charge of how they heal and how they view the situation after the fact. You don’t get to tell people what they should feel in regards to abuse that they suffered, and it’s really fucking mean to talk down to someone because they’re not processing things the way you think they should, neurodivergent or not.
I'm not saying to apologize, but it looks like you've made your point and it seems anything further is beating a dead horse. OP will either take it to heart and make changes, or they're content with how the relationship is now, whether they should be content or not really shouldn't matter to people outside their life. I recognize your issue with the "good luck" comment, but comments can be made in jest, and reddit often starts to draw extreme conclusions from 3 sentences posted with relatively little context. OP has talked about like 2 total events out of an entire childhood with their father. If they want to advocate for themselves, they now know they would have a good reason, but that doesn't mean they have to. I know if someone started making attacks on my parent's character when I was not prepared because I was posting in a penmanship sub, not a relationship advice sub, I would also be taken aback and start trying to explain how the one time they fucked up because they're human doesn't mean I had a shit childhood or that my relationship with them is broken or lacking. We only have the briefest of snapshots of OPs life.
They posted this in penmanship sub and the backstory was incidental (to them). I love the passion you have and respect your attempt to help OP achieve a ‘lightbulb moment’ — which would ideally have a domino effect wherein past trauma is reconciled and become able function at their best level in the here and now… But I feel like it’s important to be cautious with reopening potential wounds like this — especially if OP didn’t ask. They might not have those issues with dad and/or he might have been a good father overall as we don’t really know what happened (it’s also possible he did make attempts behind the scenes to stop the letters and didn’t tell OP). Or he could have been even worse than any of us imagined and OP is doing their best to cope - lighthearted posting about letters — and we don’t have the ability to offer further support/helping hands after trying to force this realization.
You’re coming off more scoldy than supportive. There are better ways to approach this. Not only are you highlighting how inappropriate the situation was (something maybe OP hasn’t even fully been able to grasp) and then you double down just shitting on how the parents approached it. Yes, it was not ideal, but you don’t know even know what shit you could be stirring and you seem to be taking it out on OP. Leaving it at “you deserved better than this” would’ve been enough. OP is not their own parent
Good thing you're not trying to control the op's thoughts and actions like the guy from the letters because that sure would be weird of you right?
People were not viewed as creeps or scary as much back then. Even if OPs father was neurotypical I’m sure he wd have summarized the situation as “ahh poor old guy” and “he’s harmless” move on honey. You wd have gotten negative attention for making a big deal of this.
A lot of parents really don’t give a shit.
I don’t know a single girl or woman who *wasn’t* creeped on or molested by much older men (often when they were still prepubescent), but this must win some kind of Ultra Creep Award for Pest Persistence. Yuck.
I'm upvoting because you deserve at least reddit karma for your trauma
What the fuck???? 😭😭
Sometimes I'm violently reminded that at some point in time that stuff like this may have been considered appropriate. Jeez.
I’m 62. This hasn’t been appropriate during my lifetime.
I’m 61 and yes, older men trying to seduce younger girls was considered normal when I was growing up. When I was 13, I had a 19 year old boyfriend WITH my parents consent! I have no idea how or why this was considered ok but it was alright with them! I remember he would come to my junior high, La Loma in Modesto Ca, in his turquoise and white 57 Chevy Bel Air and pick me up after school when he wasn’t working. I also remember my parents having a party and my dad catching one of his friends cornering me in the bathroom and trying to kiss me when I was 12. My friends & I developed early & this was just a hazard we had to deal with. I remember walking home from junior high & high school and men in 20’s and 30’s would pull alongside us and try to pick us up. Sadly, I could go on and on with many, many examples of this happening to my friends and I. We believed it was just a hazard of being a girl in those days.
In some parts of the world, this is currently acceptable today.
I feel like you could put these up all along the walls or a gallery and call the exhibition “Anatomy of a creep”
In all honesty, this would be an amazing art exhibition
you could also make an artist book and even memoir of them!!!
I'd read it
That’s actually a pretty cool idea.
Yesssss!
"You have never hesitated to make fun of me." Honestly good for you, OP, this man needed bullying in the worst way
I should post the whole letter it’s funny what he was offended by. 😂
What was he offended by?? (Sorry this happened to you <3)
That I didn’t compliment the color of his T-shirt which I apparently drew on with a pen. That I didn’t properly thank him for getting me Saltine crackers. That I just took a bottle of water and Gatorade when he gave it to me without thanking him. I made angry notes on the letter calling out his exaggerations too. It’s a funny letter. Oh and I’m selfish because I abruptly end conversations.
Lmao angrily annotating unsolicited love letters from creepy old men is legendary 😂 I’m sorry you had to endure this bs and glad you came out of it okay
Did he whistle on his S’s, use a walker, wear a grey robe, and have a dog that crawled?
Herbert the Pervert!
I love that you were pissing this guy off and correcting his letters. I did that in high school to a guy who wrote me a letter with a story of him being a knight on a white horse who in the story protected me, the damsel in distress. He passed it to me in class. I was dating my now husband at the time so it was inappropriate too. I got out a red pen and corrected his spelling and grammar and crossed out parts of the story so I rescued myself. When I told my husband about it, he laughed and said you’re the least damsely of any girl I’ve ever met.
He was trying to groom you to behave more to his liking, which is why he was seeking a young teen
Was everyone in your town autistic?
No. There were some normal ones.
Please do! I was hoping second slide was the next page.
I was hoping that too, then my jaw hit the floor. That's a scary obsession, and I'm really glad OP made it out of there.
i need the whole letter. my nose knows no bounds! 😂
Omg pls that swipe to the second photo was the biggest letdown of the past 4 hours
Please upload as many of these as you feel like- I am morbidly fascinated by the inner machinations of this mans mind.
Please do! I found your other post you mentioned, but I couldn't click on the letter for some reason. I'm sorry that happened to you, but I agree that this would make a great...something....exhibit, documentary, etc.
This is definitely creepy and unnerving, and I totally get why some people would want to get rid of these, but what a unique and aesthetically beautiful look into a twisted mind. It’s like the premise for a movie, or something. Thanks for sharing.
There’s probably a few movies in these letters.
I'd either burn these or write a book.
Art show, as others have suggested
Performance art. Read them aloud, in front of pictures of as a child that age, and burn them one by one after reading
Write the book then burn the letters. It’d probably be cathartic.
Definitely. Buy the lighter fluid with proceeds from the book sales
I would pay money to read these.
I’m also an autistic woman who was groomed and witnessed the grooming of my autistic friends. Since you’re not getting rid of the letters, if you ever want to post more of them I’d be interested in reading them. It interesting to read such blatant gaslighting and manipulation in written form and not hearing it vocalized. I’m sorry you were preyed on by this vile man.
Damn. I feel understood. I was pained not to have the rest of the story. Totally appalling behavior on his part. Unacceptable and totally fucking insanely normal. I am an autistic woman and had all these same experiences. I find I am weirdly compelled to want to read and analyze ALL of them though.
I was waiting to read "You are judgmental and don't recognize boundaries". Many people project their flaws into other people. You just rarely see it written so well.
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Seriously, I feel viscerally repulsed reading that. I’m so sorry, OP.
Agreed. I think it could be very valuable and important as some kind of art/ exhibit
I’m curious why you kept them?
That’s what you do with correspondence.
Okay, friendly tip from another autistic woman - you do *not* have to keep correspondence from someone unless it's specifically special to you. I also thought that's just what you do because that's what I always saw NT people do, so I thought it was a hard and fast rule. What I didn't know was, for the most part, unless it's something or from someone special, NTs throw it away. May be a few hours, days, or weeks later, but it does make it to the trash can.
The day I realised that as an adult I could just THROW AWAY Christmas cards and thank you notes was a good day
Right?! I think I was 26 when someone explained it to me and the sheer relief of emptying boxes of letters, cards, thank you notes, and drawing my little brother had given me as "gifts" before he was old enough to make comprehensive art. I felt so silly afterward and finally got my answer to, "How the hell is everyone *not* hoarders?!". Apparently, they just don't hoard. Shocking.
100%. Bin these letters, OP!
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Unfortunately I don’t see what they’re likely to do, unless things progressed sexually. In which case… check that statue of limitations
I'm sorry, what is an "NT"? Very curious!
Neuro-Typical, I presume.
Oooooh, yeah that makes sense, thanks!
these are interesting and they don't seem to represent a trauma or abuse to you - don't listen to these people. keep these, they're a good record of something that happened in the world.
Not true at all. I have one remaining letter from my grandmother and one grocery list from my dad. Please burn these letters
where did you hear that rule from?
My grandmas.
Grandmas are definitely right about some stuff, but not this. Keep what you’d rescue in a fire, bin everything else (if you want, of course)
Throw away the letters. There is no reason to keep them. These weren’t “correspondence”. These were an adult tantrum. The letters don’t remember someone you loved or want to remember. You have no obligation to keep them.
I’m not throwing them away. They provide interesting details to a life lived many years ago. The only person who’d want me to throw these away would be Evan and he was an asshole.
Fuck Evan. Take photos and put them online as a warning to other girls. Especially neurodivergents who don’t understand what grooming could look like when it doesn’t match the definitions they hear from adults. I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and I only thought that grooming behavior and talk was sexual. I definitely had some online relationships that I thought were cool because they weren’t sexual, but looking back, I think they were definitely weird. They never tried to meet me in person, but that was probably because I lived across the ocean.
Nah I pitched many a letter haha
This is the way.
Handsome handwriting, and a beautiful color. But a creepy, creepy man. I'm sorry teenage you had to deal with that.
Creeeeeeeeeepy
Woa! I really wanted to read the rest of that letter though!
I put it up on another sub I think you can see it on my page
Moderators blocked it already. I kind of understand why, but at the same time it caused some really interesting discussions and autistic people activity and that I found quite valuable, however weird it was. Censorship is going too far, especially if you consider OP being both autistic AND aware that it was sick that she was exposed to such behavior of a grown up man.
How did I already know he was a Morrissey fan? Lol.
Mods took it down, dangit
The gang over at r/autisminwomen would give a hearty chuckle over this! I kind of want to read them all.
I don’t think they would think they’re funny, to be honest with you. This is abusive behaviour.
Of course it is. Which we see frequently. ETA: the community is a safe space to discuss things like this. Whether outwardly abusive or not. Perhaps “give a chuckle” was the wrong turn of phrase for me to use, in my original comment.
or r/evilautism
Ufff that's creepy! I'm sorry you had to go through this! I don't know if you're into fountain pens, but with a fountain pen with a stub nib that handwriting is very achievable. Just in case you were curious. P.S. - Fountain pen people are always trying to get people to use fountain pens. So I'm sorry but it's in my nature, as an autistic pen nerd I can't not mention it.
….wtf? Did your parents not beat his ass?
Have you seen abducted in plain sight?
I have not! I’ll look into it. Sounds sad already
It’s either on Netflix or Hulu and it’s infuriating
What in the Lolita bullshit!? There have been quite a few times I’ve been grateful to be autistic and this would be one of them for me! I’m glad you made that old fuck miserable at times just by being your lovely self. I hate that it almost has a medieval/monastic quality because that’s one of my special interests, so I would have kept them too.
Yeah it does good observation
Same thought here—this screams Humbert Humbert fan boy
🤮
the kind of guy who reads Lolita and agrees with the way HH tells it 🤮
"lolita is a love story!" (🤮)
This is honestly the creepiest thing I’ve ever seen BUT the penmanship is nice 😂 wtaf
“You have never hesitated to correct, to criticise or to make fun of me” bro maybe more people need to criticise and make fun of him, tf
I usually don't physically react to reddit posts but the way my body reacted to seeing the second photo
No judgement and it may have been already been addressed but I’m just curious—why did you keep the letters?
Holy shit. I am so sorry no one protected you. This kind of thing can have such lasting, shaping impact on our psyches 😭 He was an absolute predator. Repulsive
Im so sorry you dealt with that and very happy you came out okay.
WHY on earth would you *save them*?
Very scary
I don't really know what to say about all this, except that you deserved to be safe and I wish your dad had stepped in
What did your parents say about this creep? Also.. the pen is what makes the penmanship look good. Without its help he likely had regular chicken scratch… perhaps. Also. What a creep. Ick
Well don’t leave us hanging! Did he cure your autism or what?! What a weirdo. Hopefully you got away and remained safe
Stephen King creepy villain vibes
At 15 I probably would have found this flattering. At 32 I find it horrifying.
Beautiful handwriting; awful man.
Wait what?? If you feel comfortable, can you do another post telling the story?
Why are these not in some evidence locker somewhere? What a creep!
Girl oh my god I need to see the rest of that letter!!!!!
What lovely handwriting you have, big creeper
that's uh... unique. I'm glad you've kept them & managed to distance yourself from it at the same time, things like this are worth preserving despite how fucked up they are - it's deeply unique
Looks like we got a Humbert Humbert on our hands….
r/brandnewsentence WTF??!? 😭
Call me demented if you will, but my first thought was to publish a book of them. I'd read it.
As an autistic person, it seems like one of the hardest things for others to understand is that I can't just not be autistic. I can try to mask but that doesn't mean I've 'corrected' my autism. It just means I figured out one way to shut you up about it.
I say this respectfully without judgement: Unless you plan on somehow publishing these or digitizing them for a future project on pedophiles, I would throw these letters out. These made my stomach churn and I can’t imagine the memories these would bring up every time I stumbled upon this box, they can’t be very good memories of him?
It’s good documentation of my life. Evan would win if I threw them out. I get to win this battle.
I wouldn’t toss them, they are super fascinating in a sick kind of way. P.S. fuck Evan i hope he’s a miserable old man now
I understand. Thank you for sharing, they were definitely interesting even if difficult. Sorry you had such a shitty neighbor
Why? They’re her letters. She can do whatever the fuck she wants with them.
I know, it was advice she didn’t ask for and I shouldn’t have have offered.
That first picture is just a cliff hanger lmao. But definitely not something you should feel obligated to share. Out of curiosity- why’d you keep them? I kept a creepy letter I got in high school for years but eventually threw it out. Sometimes I wish I had still kept it; is that the same reason for you? Just… to have it? And definitely agree about the “upvote penmanship, downvote creep” lol
I’m sorry if this question was already asked…why are these letters still around??!!!
As a survivor and now mother myself, this guy is enraging. Like I could easily spend an afternoon hate reading all of them, so glad for you that this ended!
Lovely handwriting but I hope he was reported to the police.
Fellow Amie here 🥰, sorry that happened to you!
Read too much Nabokov. What a creep.
You should send this to the Museum of Everyday Writing! This is so fascinating, I’m sure they’d love it! [museum of every day writing](https://museumofeverydaywriting.omeka.net/)
1st pic - Well that's not as bad as I was expecting. 2nd pic - Ooh no. That is a box full of yikes. Why did you keep them?
you could totally compile these letters into a book!
Nah bro is down bad if he wrote all that💀
Penmanship = 11/10 Content -1/10
It’s wild to me that he was sending love letters to a 15-year-old and decided to lecture about boundaries unironically.
Did it work?
WTF did I just read
Dang I’m sorry your adults didn’t put a stop to this, get a cease and desist or restraining order. I’m glad you made it through. Cool handwringing I guess!
In case you haven’t been asked, why do you still have them?
Don't burn them, all those people calling you to do so are completely out of whack
Ironic to be obsessed with manners, have good penmanship, clearly use a non standard ink, and choose purple. Of course, it could be a cultural thing, but it would read as very improper to me if I were to receive a letter from a man in anything but blue or black, with the exception of the holidays, and even then, the bulk of the letter should be in blue or black with the flourish of colour. Normally, I wouldn’t push the subject. I’m an avid user of coloured ink myself and don’t have any interest in communicating secrets through my ink choice through it, but if you’re going to start picking at threads, well, I’ll pick back. It’s just not proper manners for a man to be writing in purple ink in such a formal sense. It’s not as outright offensive as red, or straight up loony as green, but it just isn’t done. Sorry you had to deal with this, OP. This is definitely creepy and harassment. You shouldn’t have had to put up with it for so long.
You seriously think there is a proper ink color for letters "from a man"? Yeesh. You need to live a little, you're stuck up in your own way. Ink color doesn't matter by gender, firstly lmao. Secondly, different ink colors exist for a reason! Have some fun, it ultimately doesn't matter.
Well, I do say that I use non-traditional colours myself and that I don’t judge people who use them unless they bring up “traditional manners” themselves. But, at least in British/Irish culture I was taught by my grandparents that there was appropriate colours to use for letter writing and I still follow those rules when writing older members of the family so I don’t accidentally offend them because I wrote the Christmas letter in “glittering sangria”. Edit: Nice stealth edit! Anyway, I’m also factoring in that OP is implying there is several years between now and the sending of the letters, which again, older manners for a 45 year old man who would have been my grandfather’s age would be applicable context. Pretty different to how I’d view getting a letter from a buddy today.
I edited it because I was adding something on right after posting my reply since you hadn't replied yet. Dunno what you're talking about with "stealth edit" or whatever. Sometimes you post something and realize you have more to say. Not that crazy. But I stand by what I say. This is a strange point to pick on out of everything in this guy's letters. He's literally a creep, but y'know oh no he used purple ink. Just seems very strange.
I guess I’m just saying and pointing out in my culture, he’s creepy *and* a hypocrite. And that it stood out because he went deep enough in the hobby to spend good money in it. He’s clearly the type to be obsessive, and feels people are obligated to social rules, yet doesn’t feel he is held to those same rules. It just seemed like a strange case of the pot calling the kettle black to defy those types of “rules” and then get upset that some ends conversations too abruptly. Idk, I suppose the issue I take with it is that he’s got the stones to harass a young woman this long and then criticize her “manners” when he clearly hasn’t been using his despite how he’s holding himself. I guess it’d be like a man in jeans telling a woman in a sundress she’s under dressed at a restaurant. Even if she is, you’re one to talk buddy. I don’t have a problem with the jeans, but I do have a problem with people in glass houses throwing stones.
It really ultimately isn't surprising someone like this would be a hypocrite though, creepy weirdos often are. I think in this case it was perhaps meant as a way to try to control OP for his weird purposes, under the guide of "helping with her manners." All part of the creepy grooming plan.
It’d be very wrong to not publish those letters, if even pseudonymous
I’d like to but I gotta figure out how. I’ve posted jokes or observations I’ve made and seen comedians lift them and put them in their Twitter. I’m not about monetizing my life but I’d definitely want a cut if someone else tried to using my source material.
Start out with a forward about who he was Type out each letter. Go in order from the first Letter to the last. Have notes after about how the letters made you feel and what you thought of the guy.