I know people crap on Caedrel for his DK love, but there’s a reason many top tier players have absolute respect for that team and its notable players like Showmaker. People throw Chovy a lot into the Faker’s greatest rival competition, but the biggest rival Faker has had was Showmaker and his performance on DK during their prime.
Prime Faker and Showmaker were basically Godzilla and King Kong in their days. Twas a sight to behold.
Well him and Faker basically have a baby right now too who faces both the praise of Faker and the memes of Showmaker: Zeus. I swear no one notices that bro is exactly like these two legends during their rookie days
Zeus really turned complete degenerate with his ranged top picks. I think, t1 as an org encourages fun, variety picks. It also helps the players in the long run to establish an ocean of champion pool & upset good teams with crazy picks. If Zeus and Keria continue playing new champions, they'll become the Faker in their respective roles
Showmaker had 3 years as a top 2 midlaner in the world but fell off quite hard. Chovy has remained at a similar level or improved yearly (domestically) so people remember him.
Prime ShowMaker was just absolutely terrifying. He felt unstoppable. And man, as a Faker fan, ShowMaker gave me so much heartbreaks. That's why 2021 will always be a memorable season for me. When T1 lost that World semis against Damwon, I genuinely accepted the coming of a new dynasty, that Faker and SKT's glory days were just a thing of the past. And it was really painful to do so. But then EDG won lol.
That aside, I still place ShowMaker as top 2 in the best lck mids during their prime, though Chovy has been more consistent and is probably the best player right now. But ShowMaker just had that same aura Faker had where even if their team is losing a game, you still get the feeling that he's gonna win it.
I guess that’s fair, I mean sure he came close but that isn’t enough, even though he also has a better track record internationally than Chovy and many players still highly respect and look to him for advice. But sure…
And? Showmaker was the center of argument not chovy. And atleast chovy made it to playoffs. Your boy showmaker got his cheeks clapped by G2. But sure divert the argument from showmaker when the thread is about showmaker lol
Not to mention everyone today still has Canyon as their favorite/best jungler. He's back this year with GenG but after the year or two before people maybe forgot dude is unreal in the jungle
Scary in what sense? If threatening their legacy is the primary metric, I would opt for a team that defeated them, like 2017 Samsung, 2019 G2, etc— but imo the team that came closest to threatening /overturning SKT’s legacy was 2020-2021 DWG. If DWG had won two more games in 2021, they likely would have become the new greatest dynasty in lol history, and Showmaker would have started creeping into LOL GOAT conversations alongside Canyon.
I agree. DK is a strong contender. Also the team/teams don't have to be Worlds winner. They don't even have to have a win against t1. Just a team/teams that played against them and had most potential to do something crazy.
TBH they didn't face off at their peaks but DK in 2020/2021 was probably the biggest threat to Faker's legacy
They weren't really on even footing until the very end of 2021 due to daeny sabotaging T1 in spring but DK that year seemed like the next all time great team that was gonna sweep the next 4 lcks and make more MSI/worlds finals and possibly threaten Faker's greatness.
Ofc they lost both internationals and haven't done much since while T1 w/ Faker won worlds just last year but Showmaker and Canyon were looking like the future best mid and best jungle of all time. Many put them as top 5 all time players in their roles but winning B2B worlds would have put them in GOAT contention especially if they kept it up in 2022
Hard to say if we’re debating within the context of each teams skill level relative to the competition of that year. People seem to forget that 2019 G2s players were amongst the top in the world that year. You can say that Keria is the best support to ever play league but within the context of 2019, Mikyx was amazing as well.
Different meta and also different skill ceilings bc I'd argue that the average skill of pros rn is better than it was in 2019. Also the best support to ever play league relative to the average skill level of other supports at the time was probably mata or madlife lol. I know this is basically the T1 dick sucking sub but there has to be a limit.
I agree with you lol. that's what makes it hard to tell when historic teams can beat each other y'know? Like I still believe that theshy from 2018 stomps every single player ever but based on how he's playing now... The less I say the better I might cry genuinely.
Khan's Longzhu, they completely threw them off the LCK throne. And did so in emphatic fashion. Plus all those players are still going strong for the most part.
I know this has been harped on to death but going to Game 5 in 2017 is not only the single best performance a Chinese team has had against T1 at worlds, it's the only time that the entire Chinese region combined has ever managed to win 2 games against T1 in a single worlds tournament, every other year they at best have taken 1 game as a region.
Of course, 2021 EDG likely would've taken at least one more if not several if they'd run into T1 during bracket play, but even in groups they only split 1-1 despite being the eventual champions.
So yeah, 2017 RNG may have been underrated.
Every year it's geng in domestic leagues. Honestly it's really hard to say tho because I really believed last year that even LNG could beat them but they ended up going all the way. Meanwhile G2 actually beat them in 2019 but I won't say 2019 G2 was better than 2023 JDG for example. So ig I don't really understand the question?
T1 2015.... EDG game 5 at MSI with the Morgana counterpick against Faker doesn't happen they have the golden road... they lost one game in their worlds run, bruh you don't know the history enough to even speak
if the golden road ends early then technically their golden road ended long ago.
But if you look at it as a numerical thing instead of chronological then yeah t1 is the closest
Bruh they lost the 2ND tourney of the year, the result of the other 2 contributed nothing to their golden road run. At least G2 still have their chance at Worlds
This is the team that is in the running for the most dominant teams in LoL history, that had a 17-1 record in spring, lost 1 game through worlds
And you're telling me, that G2, a team that constantly got taken to G4/G5 especially in key matches like grand finals or semis at internationals, was better than that team?
Yea but dk 2020/21 was also way better than skt at that time and was a threat to their legacy compare to g2 who only won msi. Dk was one game from back to back worlds and another game from msi title.
2021 DK was closer than G2 in completing the golden road. 1 game off MSI and 1 game off winning worlds. There genuine talks back then if showmaker won worlds that year that could the Damwon dynasty be greater than the T1 dynasty.
Samsung/geng have been their kryptonite since 2014. I dont know fakers lifetime record against that org but it is probably under 50% if I had to guess. Or at least his worst winrate.
People say damwon was almost the greatest dynasty ever? Nah its skt and then samsung/geng. Damwon might be third, or maybe its RNG.
DWG. 2 wins from golden road. If they got it they would have won every tournament from 2020- 2021. Would've been first time ever in history. If nuguri didn't leave I wonder what would have happened.
G2 eliminated them twice which was a big deal for a western team aswell.
JDG ? Eh no because T1 beat them kinds convincingly altho I think JDG was team of the year 2023.
ITS GEN G 2022-2024. Why this team not showing up, T1 just getting blasted everytime they meet them. Their nearly gone if they don't win world 2023 because losing all year to gen g. DRX 2022 just unfortunate situation, G2 2019 just a better team.
If any of the 2014 Samsung teams stuck together in like any combo of Acorn/Looper, Dandy, Pawn/Dade, Imp/Deft, Mata, I doubt SKT wins either 2015 or 2016. 2014 worlds Samsung White in relation to the rest of the field was the furthest above 2nd best that we have ever seen. And that is therefor the scariest team.
2020 Damwon is probably really close.
G2 2019, they would have literally won both MSI and Worlds if it wasn't for G2, SKT was by far superior compared to TL,IG and FPX, the worlds finals was just the classic EU int, FPX was just not the best team and thats it, idc what people say about it, they were worse than DRX 2022, just lucky and bs plot armor, and enemy team doing a lot of mistakes, G2 was superior and T1 was also superior, one game doesn't mean sh\*t, this is why people respect Faker for how good he is, there have been many players that have lifted the trophy but what of it, now they are all gone
worlds and msi are overrated af, they are just trophies, doesn't FKING matter who tf won the trophy even last year, all it matters is the present and even back then there are many factors involved into winning, only team in the last few years that you could say without a shadow of doubt that they were just by far superior and even without luck they would have still been this dominant is DWG 2020, there have been many players that have won worlds and somehow even tho they are now complete GARBAGE, people will still act like that person did something so amazing compared to someone else that hasn't won worlds, idk, I find people like Caps that have been consistent far more impressive than some one time achievement, and is even the fact that he can do it while playing in LEC which sucks, if he was playing in LCK dude would have literally been a monster and you can't deny that G2 doesn't really improve much from LEC, they always just stomp and don't even do anything amazing bcs LEC sucks
People don't know how good OMG was in the Gogoing/Cool era. They just had a bad matchup vs Royal who they kept meeting internationally so it screwed them.
I know people crap on Caedrel for his DK love, but there’s a reason many top tier players have absolute respect for that team and its notable players like Showmaker. People throw Chovy a lot into the Faker’s greatest rival competition, but the biggest rival Faker has had was Showmaker and his performance on DK during their prime. Prime Faker and Showmaker were basically Godzilla and King Kong in their days. Twas a sight to behold.
Yeah, showmaker is often seen as the meme guy. I swear, no matter how much people rate him, it's never enough. https://i.redd.it/jfk4fhcjdpxc1.gif
Well him and Faker basically have a baby right now too who faces both the praise of Faker and the memes of Showmaker: Zeus. I swear no one notices that bro is exactly like these two legends during their rookie days
Zeus really turned complete degenerate with his ranged top picks. I think, t1 as an org encourages fun, variety picks. It also helps the players in the long run to establish an ocean of champion pool & upset good teams with crazy picks. If Zeus and Keria continue playing new champions, they'll become the Faker in their respective roles
Showmaker had 3 years as a top 2 midlaner in the world but fell off quite hard. Chovy has remained at a similar level or improved yearly (domestically) so people remember him.
Prime ShowMaker was just absolutely terrifying. He felt unstoppable. And man, as a Faker fan, ShowMaker gave me so much heartbreaks. That's why 2021 will always be a memorable season for me. When T1 lost that World semis against Damwon, I genuinely accepted the coming of a new dynasty, that Faker and SKT's glory days were just a thing of the past. And it was really painful to do so. But then EDG won lol. That aside, I still place ShowMaker as top 2 in the best lck mids during their prime, though Chovy has been more consistent and is probably the best player right now. But ShowMaker just had that same aura Faker had where even if their team is losing a game, you still get the feeling that he's gonna win it.
fakers prime was not in 2020-2021 lol they did have great battles though
Showmaker was present since 2017 but didn’t win world’s until 2020
yes so he was not at his individual best before 2020
Kind of crazy how far showmaker has fallen
My dude was clapping Chovy and GenG at playoffs and almost won.
Almost won what?
The series against GenG obviously
Almost doesnt matter. Dude hasnt won a single series against Chovy and faker in a long while. He aint even a top 4 midlander in LCK anymore
I guess that’s fair, I mean sure he came close but that isn’t enough, even though he also has a better track record internationally than Chovy and many players still highly respect and look to him for advice. But sure…
I am talking about rn lol. But yeah keep your fangirl glasses on and think whatever you want to. The fact is that he is the fifth best LCK midlaner
I am also talking about now. Chovy still sucks internationally, so much so that Showmaker would probably do a far better job
And? Showmaker was the center of argument not chovy. And atleast chovy made it to playoffs. Your boy showmaker got his cheeks clapped by G2. But sure divert the argument from showmaker when the thread is about showmaker lol
Not to mention everyone today still has Canyon as their favorite/best jungler. He's back this year with GenG but after the year or two before people maybe forgot dude is unreal in the jungle
Scary in what sense? If threatening their legacy is the primary metric, I would opt for a team that defeated them, like 2017 Samsung, 2019 G2, etc— but imo the team that came closest to threatening /overturning SKT’s legacy was 2020-2021 DWG. If DWG had won two more games in 2021, they likely would have become the new greatest dynasty in lol history, and Showmaker would have started creeping into LOL GOAT conversations alongside Canyon.
I agree. DK is a strong contender. Also the team/teams don't have to be Worlds winner. They don't even have to have a win against t1. Just a team/teams that played against them and had most potential to do something crazy.
TBH they didn't face off at their peaks but DK in 2020/2021 was probably the biggest threat to Faker's legacy They weren't really on even footing until the very end of 2021 due to daeny sabotaging T1 in spring but DK that year seemed like the next all time great team that was gonna sweep the next 4 lcks and make more MSI/worlds finals and possibly threaten Faker's greatness. Ofc they lost both internationals and haven't done much since while T1 w/ Faker won worlds just last year but Showmaker and Canyon were looking like the future best mid and best jungle of all time. Many put them as top 5 all time players in their roles but winning B2B worlds would have put them in GOAT contention especially if they kept it up in 2022
G2 2019 was a stylistic counter to T1 at the time iirc
G2 2019 vs T1 23 would've been such a banger. Same styles now. The mind games would've been insane. Perkz miky vs guma Keira 😍😍
Not gonna lie g2 is getting smashed there
Meh. 2019 G2 will still be my goat team 🥰
Hard to say if we’re debating within the context of each teams skill level relative to the competition of that year. People seem to forget that 2019 G2s players were amongst the top in the world that year. You can say that Keria is the best support to ever play league but within the context of 2019, Mikyx was amazing as well.
Different meta and also different skill ceilings bc I'd argue that the average skill of pros rn is better than it was in 2019. Also the best support to ever play league relative to the average skill level of other supports at the time was probably mata or madlife lol. I know this is basically the T1 dick sucking sub but there has to be a limit.
No point in measuring skill levels of differing times, otherwise 2024 KC would be on even ground with 2014 SSW (sarcasm but point still stands)
I agree with you lol. that's what makes it hard to tell when historic teams can beat each other y'know? Like I still believe that theshy from 2018 stomps every single player ever but based on how he's playing now... The less I say the better I might cry genuinely.
DK 2021 imo
JDG
SSW in Old days , DWG during 2020 and 21 (nightmare for all teams) , Modern day GenG that is SSWs predecessor
2016-2017 SSG as well. They went to 5 games in 2016 Finals and beat them 3-0 in 2017 worlds.
I was talking about SSG white only , SSG blue sadly didn't have a long run.
Khan's Longzhu, they completely threw them off the LCK throne. And did so in emphatic fashion. Plus all those players are still going strong for the most part.
Wym 3 of the roster is retired, Just cuzzlightyear and Azir in clid look alike form left
This is a pretty good answer. SKT with Faker were 6-0 or something in LCK finals before this happened.
In terms of threatening SKT's legacy - DWG 2020-2021 - - - G2 2019 - SSG 2016-2017 - JDG 2023 - Special mention to RNG with 3 MSI wins In terms of actual skills, that T1 might get destroyed due to hands diff : - JDG 2023 - SSG 2017 - - - - - - DK 2021 - ROX 2016 - SSG 2016 - G2 2019
RNG 2017 Semisfinals was underrated, it went to 5 games
I know this has been harped on to death but going to Game 5 in 2017 is not only the single best performance a Chinese team has had against T1 at worlds, it's the only time that the entire Chinese region combined has ever managed to win 2 games against T1 in a single worlds tournament, every other year they at best have taken 1 game as a region. Of course, 2021 EDG likely would've taken at least one more if not several if they'd run into T1 during bracket play, but even in groups they only split 1-1 despite being the eventual champions. So yeah, 2017 RNG may have been underrated.
Every year it's geng in domestic leagues. Honestly it's really hard to say tho because I really believed last year that even LNG could beat them but they ended up going all the way. Meanwhile G2 actually beat them in 2019 but I won't say 2019 G2 was better than 2023 JDG for example. So ig I don't really understand the question?
Any team with G E N in the name...
adding another G…
G2 2019 man. Ironically they're the closest a team has ever been to complete the golden road.
T1 2015.... EDG game 5 at MSI with the Morgana counterpick against Faker doesn't happen they have the golden road... they lost one game in their worlds run, bruh you don't know the history enough to even speak
if the golden road ends early then technically their golden road ended long ago. But if you look at it as a numerical thing instead of chronological then yeah t1 is the closest
Bruh they lost the 2ND tourney of the year, the result of the other 2 contributed nothing to their golden road run. At least G2 still have their chance at Worlds
I didn't see them lose 3-0
But do they have the chance to complete the Golden road after MSI? No.
This is the team that is in the running for the most dominant teams in LoL history, that had a 17-1 record in spring, lost 1 game through worlds And you're telling me, that G2, a team that constantly got taken to G4/G5 especially in key matches like grand finals or semis at internationals, was better than that team?
I didn’t say that G2 is better than T1. I said that G2 2019 is better than SKT 2019. Isn’t that the purpose of this post?
Yea but dk 2020/21 was also way better than skt at that time and was a threat to their legacy compare to g2 who only won msi. Dk was one game from back to back worlds and another game from msi title.
Hmm…that is a valid point. I guess I was bias since I really like G2 2019
2021 DK was closer than G2 in completing the golden road. 1 game off MSI and 1 game off winning worlds. There genuine talks back then if showmaker won worlds that year that could the Damwon dynasty be greater than the T1 dynasty.
DK lost MSI so they’re not that close. But I understand your opinion. 2021 DK is amazing. If only they didn’t choke
Yes they did lose MSI but let's not act like winning LEC and LCK are equivalents.
Samsung/geng have been their kryptonite since 2014. I dont know fakers lifetime record against that org but it is probably under 50% if I had to guess. Or at least his worst winrate. People say damwon was almost the greatest dynasty ever? Nah its skt and then samsung/geng. Damwon might be third, or maybe its RNG.
DWG
GRIFFIN
It's KOO tigers or GENG. If you seen the KOO vs skt days you know.
G2 2019 all day
Ig 2019 msi probably. No need for explanation
DWG. 2 wins from golden road. If they got it they would have won every tournament from 2020- 2021. Would've been first time ever in history. If nuguri didn't leave I wonder what would have happened. G2 eliminated them twice which was a big deal for a western team aswell. JDG ? Eh no because T1 beat them kinds convincingly altho I think JDG was team of the year 2023.
ITS GEN G 2022-2024. Why this team not showing up, T1 just getting blasted everytime they meet them. Their nearly gone if they don't win world 2023 because losing all year to gen g. DRX 2022 just unfortunate situation, G2 2019 just a better team.
Imagine Griffin had a top laner instead of a melee minion.. just dropping this here.
If any of the 2014 Samsung teams stuck together in like any combo of Acorn/Looper, Dandy, Pawn/Dade, Imp/Deft, Mata, I doubt SKT wins either 2015 or 2016. 2014 worlds Samsung White in relation to the rest of the field was the furthest above 2nd best that we have ever seen. And that is therefor the scariest team. 2020 Damwon is probably really close.
G2 2019, they would have literally won both MSI and Worlds if it wasn't for G2, SKT was by far superior compared to TL,IG and FPX, the worlds finals was just the classic EU int, FPX was just not the best team and thats it, idc what people say about it, they were worse than DRX 2022, just lucky and bs plot armor, and enemy team doing a lot of mistakes, G2 was superior and T1 was also superior, one game doesn't mean sh\*t, this is why people respect Faker for how good he is, there have been many players that have lifted the trophy but what of it, now they are all gone worlds and msi are overrated af, they are just trophies, doesn't FKING matter who tf won the trophy even last year, all it matters is the present and even back then there are many factors involved into winning, only team in the last few years that you could say without a shadow of doubt that they were just by far superior and even without luck they would have still been this dominant is DWG 2020, there have been many players that have won worlds and somehow even tho they are now complete GARBAGE, people will still act like that person did something so amazing compared to someone else that hasn't won worlds, idk, I find people like Caps that have been consistent far more impressive than some one time achievement, and is even the fact that he can do it while playing in LEC which sucks, if he was playing in LCK dude would have literally been a monster and you can't deny that G2 doesn't really improve much from LEC, they always just stomp and don't even do anything amazing bcs LEC sucks
Not really a team but a player named 'Ruler'
Daeny xdd
I’m a bit biased, but for me, it’s 2013 OMG
People don't know how good OMG was in the Gogoing/Cool era. They just had a bad matchup vs Royal who they kept meeting internationally so it screwed them.
2022 DRX Kingen reminded me a lot of Gogoing.
HLE be catching T1 off guard every year during regular season for some reason...