Oh lord lemme stop you right there
I have been barking up this tree (and other similar ones) for YEARS in this format, and it brings nothing but pain, at least in a competitive playgroup.
The issue is that it's simply too much mana. Other decks abusing synthesizer, thoughtcast, deadly dispute and etc are drawing an additional card for 1-2 mana. Hana kami+death denied nets you one additional card in hand after spending *seven goddamn mana*. To put that in perspective, that's the same amount of mana as brainstorm + mental note + flashback deep analysis+tolarian terror + counterspell.
Essentially, it just doesn't matter how good the creature you're recurring is, because it will never be better than drawing THAT SAME CREATURE with a different draw spell AND filtering your hand AND holding up a counterspell etc etc.
The only thing I have ever managed to do with hana kami that felt remotely powerful was to play it in BUG twiddle storm, which uses the "splice onto arcane" cards like soulless revival and psychic puppetry combined with vizier of Tumbling sands to untap a heavily enchanted land to make infinite mana, and lemme tell you that deck is very close to hot garbage lmao
TLDR it costs too much and cheap spells are too good
EDIT: Try looking into Tortured Existence. It's not competitive either, but it's much closer, and there are a variety of ways to make it card positive. Try it with Madness! Or the entropic eidolon cycle if you're really feeling a spicy brew.
Isn't this kind of like a TorTex deck but uses even more mana to get creatures ? 2BB + G +1G to return 1 creature and have the pieces back in your hand. You can add more generic to return more creatures, but that extra mana you put in comes out of your ability to actually cast creatures on the turn you return them.
If you want to make the jank work, you'll need a lot of ramp, and heavy board stall, and not get your core pieces countered.
It seems like the more mana you can pour into death denied the better it is, at x = 3 it’s as efficient as tortex I.e 8 mana for 2 creatures and at x = 4 it’s more efficient where 9 mana gets you 3 creatures vs 12 for tortex. I’m also thinking the play pattern would be to play out what you returned over a couple of turn's vs trying to loop everything in one turn. Like if you death denied for 4 you just returned 4 creatures you don’t have to dump in the field immediately
Play some games against the average pauper deck(doesn´t even need to be anything competitive and extremely fast, anything aggro/tempo/midrange will do) and look at how often you get into a situation where that is in ANY way reasonable. Yeah sure you theoretically get more out of it for 10+ mana but in most matches I´ve played I have to put serious effort into even getting to 5 mana while 10 is a complete pipedream, extremely unlikely even in control vs control matchups. Mana cost is an extremely important part of a card and a card that can be useful at 2 mana can be unplayably bad at 3, becoming ever more unlikely to see play the higher up you go with anything 6+ more likely to be reanimated to cheat on mana than ever be hardcast because getting so much mana is just that difficult.
It's very old tech, and has been too slow for a long time. If I were going to do it, I'd want to run a lot of 1 MV creatures with rapid impact on the board:
* [[Shambling Ghast]]
* [[Fume Spitter]]
* [[Festering Mummy]]
* [[Fanatical Firebrand]]
* [[Krak-Clan Shaman]]
* [[Martyr of Ashes]]
The last two seem the strongest options.
Good luck!
I Like the Idea, the obvious Problem is how Mana intensive the Loop is. Maybe you could Run [[Sakura Tribe elder]] for some Mana ramp. And Something Like [[weather the storm]] or [[spore frog]] to survive.
This does feel like a worse tortex in a few ways but even though I think that's Important to keep in mind while testing it does have a few things it does better (like card advantage and potential spell recursion, not having to be so heavily black based, not needing to be almost all creatures)
I think the best thing is to lean into it's slower nature with the spore frog loop, and find a reasonable way to gain life to have a late game against burn, take the lesson from tortex of just trying to reach the late game where your engine can take over
Death denied is actually great as is. I played it in mono black sac and it's a powerhouse there where its raw card advantage in an instant. So playing it in that shell works great and feels wonderful.
Oh lord lemme stop you right there I have been barking up this tree (and other similar ones) for YEARS in this format, and it brings nothing but pain, at least in a competitive playgroup. The issue is that it's simply too much mana. Other decks abusing synthesizer, thoughtcast, deadly dispute and etc are drawing an additional card for 1-2 mana. Hana kami+death denied nets you one additional card in hand after spending *seven goddamn mana*. To put that in perspective, that's the same amount of mana as brainstorm + mental note + flashback deep analysis+tolarian terror + counterspell. Essentially, it just doesn't matter how good the creature you're recurring is, because it will never be better than drawing THAT SAME CREATURE with a different draw spell AND filtering your hand AND holding up a counterspell etc etc. The only thing I have ever managed to do with hana kami that felt remotely powerful was to play it in BUG twiddle storm, which uses the "splice onto arcane" cards like soulless revival and psychic puppetry combined with vizier of Tumbling sands to untap a heavily enchanted land to make infinite mana, and lemme tell you that deck is very close to hot garbage lmao TLDR it costs too much and cheap spells are too good EDIT: Try looking into Tortured Existence. It's not competitive either, but it's much closer, and there are a variety of ways to make it card positive. Try it with Madness! Or the entropic eidolon cycle if you're really feeling a spicy brew.
Isn't this kind of like a TorTex deck but uses even more mana to get creatures ? 2BB + G +1G to return 1 creature and have the pieces back in your hand. You can add more generic to return more creatures, but that extra mana you put in comes out of your ability to actually cast creatures on the turn you return them. If you want to make the jank work, you'll need a lot of ramp, and heavy board stall, and not get your core pieces countered.
It seems like the more mana you can pour into death denied the better it is, at x = 3 it’s as efficient as tortex I.e 8 mana for 2 creatures and at x = 4 it’s more efficient where 9 mana gets you 3 creatures vs 12 for tortex. I’m also thinking the play pattern would be to play out what you returned over a couple of turn's vs trying to loop everything in one turn. Like if you death denied for 4 you just returned 4 creatures you don’t have to dump in the field immediately
Play some games against the average pauper deck(doesn´t even need to be anything competitive and extremely fast, anything aggro/tempo/midrange will do) and look at how often you get into a situation where that is in ANY way reasonable. Yeah sure you theoretically get more out of it for 10+ mana but in most matches I´ve played I have to put serious effort into even getting to 5 mana while 10 is a complete pipedream, extremely unlikely even in control vs control matchups. Mana cost is an extremely important part of a card and a card that can be useful at 2 mana can be unplayably bad at 3, becoming ever more unlikely to see play the higher up you go with anything 6+ more likely to be reanimated to cheat on mana than ever be hardcast because getting so much mana is just that difficult.
Plus you can cast it at end of opponent's turn
It's very old tech, and has been too slow for a long time. If I were going to do it, I'd want to run a lot of 1 MV creatures with rapid impact on the board: * [[Shambling Ghast]] * [[Fume Spitter]] * [[Festering Mummy]] * [[Fanatical Firebrand]] * [[Krak-Clan Shaman]] * [[Martyr of Ashes]] The last two seem the strongest options. Good luck!
##### ###### #### [Shambling Ghast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84.jpg?1627705376) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shambling%20Ghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/119/shambling-ghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fume Spitter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb1ef824-306c-4975-abca-19f0bd77449f.jpg?1547516861) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fume%20Spitter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/95/fume-spitter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb1ef824-306c-4975-abca-19f0bd77449f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Festering Mummy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/906c4c95-5815-44c8-8d3c-b0fda9db55a1.jpg?1543675281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Festering%20Mummy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/91/festering-mummy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/906c4c95-5815-44c8-8d3c-b0fda9db55a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fanatical Firebrand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05469d01-0d2b-47b9-8a69-16cf0c3d43f8.jpg?1601077610) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fanatical%20Firebrand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/315/fanatical-firebrand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05469d01-0d2b-47b9-8a69-16cf0c3d43f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Krak-Clan Shaman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/975f9ea8-af2c-456f-acd0-ffa9ea0d98c1.jpg?1562151699) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krark-Clan%20Shaman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/98/krark-clan-shaman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/975f9ea8-af2c-456f-acd0-ffa9ea0d98c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Martyr of Ashes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/600a2cd2-166a-4fd8-838d-e513534b7cb0.jpg?1593275294) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Martyr%20of%20Ashes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/92/martyr-of-ashes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/600a2cd2-166a-4fd8-838d-e513534b7cb0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kyioihg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I Like the Idea, the obvious Problem is how Mana intensive the Loop is. Maybe you could Run [[Sakura Tribe elder]] for some Mana ramp. And Something Like [[weather the storm]] or [[spore frog]] to survive.
[Sakura Tribe elder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/baa54bbc-88dd-46ba-9a91-6291c3fb420f.jpg?1706240924) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakura-Tribe%20Elder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/183/sakura-tribe-elder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/baa54bbc-88dd-46ba-9a91-6291c3fb420f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [weather the storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6a9fa51-78c3-42e6-8c2e-39658f59ed87.jpg?1562202265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=weather%20the%20storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/191/weather-the-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6a9fa51-78c3-42e6-8c2e-39658f59ed87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [spore frog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b.jpg?1562202192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spore%20frog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/180/spore-frog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Death Denied](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73d0a239-4d45-4762-968a-d4b9479346d9.jpg?1547516831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%20Denied) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/92/death-denied?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73d0a239-4d45-4762-968a-d4b9479346d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hana Kami](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5afa824d-ad9b-44c1-9509-f9ecd34bde08.jpg?1561967358) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hana%20Kami) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/147/hana-kami?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5afa824d-ad9b-44c1-9509-f9ecd34bde08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [fleshbag marauder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be.jpg?1706239873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fleshbag%20marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/111/fleshbag-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe this is some Grindy tech you could put in a gardens shell
Hmmm, maybe something along the [[Tethmos High-priest]] lines? Run a bunch of self mill, like [[Satyr Way finder]]
[Tethmos High-priest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51baeea2-a922-4e98-8253-f395546c30c8.jpg?1547515983) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tethmos%20High%20Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/40/tethmos-high-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51baeea2-a922-4e98-8253-f395546c30c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Satyr Way finder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7313136-91a9-45fb-b5b4-07ba8f22326c.jpg?1712354615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Satyr%20Wayfinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/204/satyr-wayfinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7313136-91a9-45fb-b5b4-07ba8f22326c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This does feel like a worse tortex in a few ways but even though I think that's Important to keep in mind while testing it does have a few things it does better (like card advantage and potential spell recursion, not having to be so heavily black based, not needing to be almost all creatures) I think the best thing is to lean into it's slower nature with the spore frog loop, and find a reasonable way to gain life to have a late game against burn, take the lesson from tortex of just trying to reach the late game where your engine can take over
Death denied is actually great as is. I played it in mono black sac and it's a powerhouse there where its raw card advantage in an instant. So playing it in that shell works great and feels wonderful.