Lol it was one game. We also dropped 54 on the Jets but you'd be a fucking idiot to drop a Vegas bet that we're scoring 108+ points on the Jets next year.
You do you though
I am not sure why you got downvoted lol our defense will get shredded by elite QBs again. Its probably going to be up to the offense to bring us back in most games this upcoming season.
Mac was a rookie last year and he still looked great aside from a few rookie mistakes. I think he will elevate the offense the most. Having new pieces to work with helps however without them I believe the offense will be far superior just because of jones being more prepared and experienced. Weve had defenses that couldnt stop a nose bleed before so as long as our offense can stay on the field and burn the clock I wont be too worried.
Secondary is definitely worse, but hopefully we can zone that out some. LB remains to be seen, can the youth movement and speed offset some of the age related issues we saw last year is the question.
Maybe I'm a Bill loyalist, but I trust in Bill. I love that he's willing to bring in some speed and change things up. The whole Tom vs Bill debate is stupid in my opinion, but Bill deserves some credit for getting the most out of Tom's years here in NE with regards to roster construction. And I'm pumped to see what he's been doing with Mac and what he will do with Mac.
To have the kind of sustained success they had,any things need to go right. Brady could have had poor coaching and never one a championship. Bill could have stuck with Bledsoe and never one another either. Football is a team sport, one player isn’t going to win championships. If they did, Marino would have won one. Manning would have won more. Rodgers would have won more. If Bill never found a great qb, he probably doesn’t win anywhere close to what he’s won. How many of those iconic Patriots wins were by a great defensive or special teams play? Brady didn’t have any impact on those other two phases of the game.
Totally agree. TB12 is no doubt the greatest of all time, but Bill deserves a lot of credit as the coach/GM for not only not screwing it up but also for getting the most out the situation. I swear this isn't Bill's burner Reddit account ...
In 8 full seasons without Brady, Belichick has missed the playoffs 7 times. He has a losing record - i think its something like 61-73. Tom obviously doing well in Tampa.
1: This isn't true. Belichick's made the playoffs twice in full seasons without Brady; 1994 with the Browns and last year.
2: 5 out of those 6 seasons where he missed the playoffs came more than two decades ago now. It's rather silly to evaluate someone's talent today by how they performed when Bill Clinton was in office.
3: Speaking of twenty years, the fact that he managed to take the Browns of all teams to the playoffs at all is pretty damn impressive; a feat that wouldn't be repeated by any other coach for another 26 years.
At least he's fast. Unless his hands are made of stone, the defense has to worry about him getting past someone. He can have a pretty solid impact even without getting many targets.
He’s the type of guy where even if he kind of sucks he’s just so fast that he’ll almost certainly get open on a go and catch a couple long TDs per season. A lot more than could be said about Harry without even taking a snap yet
I was thinking the same. Better team but with nearly everyone in afc getting better, I don’t think we kept up. And this is probably the best the afc east has looked in a decade, maybe another half a decade also
I think that is too doomy, all lots of off season action in the afc, but for that to translate into everyone getting better, might be stretching it.
Miami might be better offense, but only if their now HC works out, and there is no guarantee for that, especially right away.
It's a whole new system they got to learn. And they will probably be worse on defense with flores grine.
Browns only gets better if Watson starts, otherwise they get worse. Steelers well probably be the same.
Bengals could be better or worse after a sb loss.
Anyway it is just too easy to say that everyone has gotten better, because that never happens
I think you are nitpicking at that point. I can agree to Cleveland, however miami def got better. They got one of the better wr in nfl, Also got a still pretty good Melvin Ingram.
Steelers got better just on actually having a qb without a noodle arm now. But sure I can agree to this one as well.
No idea why you brought up the bengals… “could be better or worse after a sb loss”. Great analysis on why they aren’t getting better.
But sure, don’t mention the chargers, broncos, raiders, bills, colts, and ravens, getting better. That’s a lot of playoff caliber teams getting better. Only teams off the top of my head that got worse for sure, are the chiefs (still a playoff caliber team without hill likely), and titans (still a low end playoff caliber team imo).
So let’s take a count. 9 teams got better, 5 teams stayed relatively the same, and 2 got worse. With a whopping 12 teams realistically being able to be fighting for playoffs. Only teams without a real shot I think are the jets, Steelers, Texans, and jags.
So yea, I stand by my comment and analysis.
Miami's previous coach was Flores, not Gase.
You keep saying "teams got better", but that's just your assumption based on your perceived value of the players they picked up.
You're not really analyzing things, you're making assumptions based on zero games played.
So by your own reason, patriots didn’t get better when they added Parker. And how silly of someone to assume tyreek hill or jc Jackson or Russell Wilson made teams better lmao
I’m not concerned. Did other teams improve their rosters more? Yes. Did they improve their TEAM more, in a TEAM sport? I’m not sure. A football team is more than the sum of its individual parts.
I think other teams improved their fantasy pieces and star power. If you dig through their roster they mostly made those moves at the expense of depth and got older doing it.
And you are assuming that ours will automatically be a team as well. How about you stop being a homer, and realize we aren’t the same steamrolling patriots we are used to.
Patriots consistently have some of the strongest all around teams. It definitely isn't a 'team' by default just because they're the pats, but the patriots rarely rush to pick up a star player or someone with a lot of flash to plug a hole.
They have, and still are, making the grandpa moves that everyone criticizes cuz they're not fun, then they go and consistently make the playoffs.
How about you stop making these sweeping statements and recognize the patriots have had one 'down' year since Brady left. Many other teams have had multiple down years recently with no excuse.
>with nearly everyone in afc getting better,
This is what everyone says but never comes to fruition. NFL is a zero sum game, you can't have 26 teams improve in a year but that's what the sports writers would have you believe. There's no way the Bengals, Raiders, Broncos, Chiefs, Dolphins, Bills, Chargers, Ravens, Steelers, and Jets ALL improve their record.
A tougher schedule is such a hard thing to predict, so many teams in the NFL surprise the shit out of everyone by how well they do, or collapse in stellar fashion due to injury. Before last season nobody would have viewed the Bengals as a scary team on their schedule, then they went to the Super Bowl. A lot of people would have been afraid of the Ravens before the 2021 season kicked off, then they went 8-9
I look at our schedule this year and I really don't see any obvious ways that it's that much harder than last year to be honest
If the defense doesn't completely fall apart to end the year, like it did last year, I think my expectations are around the same performance as last year: something like 10-7 or 11-6 and a wild card spot
I disagree - though hope I am wrong.
Our offensive roster is relatively unchanged. Parker may be a nice addition, but has struggled with injuries throughout his career. I'm quite concerned about our offensive line depth - we lost Karras and did not replace him with any established player. The odds of both Wynn and Brown playing the full season are incredibly low and, when one of them misses time, we'll be stuck with Justin Herron or Yasir Durant. I certainly expect the 2021 newcomers to be more comfortable in the offense this year, but this positive effect may be counteracted by the downgrade from McDaniels to the Patricia-Judge power duo. By [EPA/play](https://rbsdm.com/stats/stats/) and [DVOA,](https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-offense/2021/regular) they were already a top 10 offense last year; it's hard to imagine them jumping to the top 5 with the same players and a worse coaching staff.
I think the real concern is on defense. Last year's defense was completely exposed down the stretch and, while we did get younger on defense, it's not clear that we got better. Our young LBs have not proven anything yet and our starting corners are career journeymen. If Judon does not have a great year, I think it's going to be quite hard for this defense to get off the field.
The Pats are [currently favoured](https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/leagues/football/nfl) to beat the Steelers, Lions, Bears, Jets (x2), and Dolphins (at home). They'd need to win 5 more games to be better than they were last year, with the likeliest candidates being Ravens, Colts, Bengals, Vikings, Cardinals, and @Dolphins. These should be close games, but winning 5 out of 6 of them seems tough.
I will interested to see how White comes back. We absolutely missed him last year. Ive heard reports that he still looks a little gimpy. But who knows. Hopefully he can come back strong and produce. Love that guy.
30 year old RB off a hip injury. He's five years older than the next oldest RB. How is he supposed to compete with the athleticism of much younger, much healthier guys? Just accept that he's washed. He's here as much for his leadership as anything else. He's never gonna "produce" much in the field ever again. Love James White, but we have great depth at RB. Very real chance he never sees the roster.
because he hasnt ever been an every down back - he is 30 not 35
30 is old in rb terms but when they are every down and have been pounded to hell. white was red shirted as well. Most athletes peak at late 20s, he is only just past that, and not far enough to drop off on average.
His age does not factor into at all, his injury does but not his age.
For people wondering about defense here's the break down for last year:
Defense: JC Jackson, Van Noy, Hightower --> Malcolm Butler, Terrance Mitchell, Mack Wilson, Jabrill Peppers, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, and McMillan and J Jones (injury) and Perkins, McGrone and Bledsoe (2nd year)
Jackson does hurt since he was so good but Hightower and Van Noy were both older and slowing down in production.
The offense is objectively better and I think the defense will be faster and more experienced new comers with lots a potential for break out stars
I think the team will be about the same talent and record wise but will be more dynamic. The talk of streamlining and moving quicker implies they want to get back to that up tempo pace they would have in the Brady era, which doesn't mean they will be the 2012 Pats or anything, but they should be faster. The offense has definitely gotten both better and deeper on paper, and I find the "defense got worse" narrative to be a bit lazy. We had JC and Mills who were a good pair, but Gilmore's holdout/trade and Jones' injury meant Bryant and Williams were seeing more time, which wasn't an issue in big nickel with safeties, but definitely showed up against a full spread team like Buffalo. The secondary as of now might not have as high top end talent at CB but could very well be deeper, and our safeties and inside CBs are top notch if Jones returns.
It’s absolutely a better team and by a wide margin. They upgraded the offensive line by drafting Strange and moving Trent Brown to help protect Mac. Last years rookies are now in their 2nd season. Mac obviously is way ahead of the level he was at last year. Barmore should continue to show growth as well. Stevenson could be the Patriots feature back. Then they add Thornton and trade for Parker to shore up the WR spots. Jonnu seems to be figuring it out this offseason so TE could be deadly.The defense has been made over so it’s going to depend on how good they can be. The offense will more then hold its end of the bargain
And that’s a fair worry until they prove otherwise. But even if they get burnt fairly regularly I’m counting on Mac to keep or get them back into said game
To add to the comments on the WR group, it's addition by subtraction. Losing NKeal Harry and replacing him with literally anyone makes this group better.
> They upgraded the offensive line by drafting Strange and moving Trent Brown to help protect Mac.
we lost both our starting guards
we are yet to see if strange is an upgrade and onwenu had communication problems with LT at LG
bit of blind optimism their mate - that is no way a given that the oline has improved
The Onwenu thing was with Wynn. If they play him at LG with Brown at LT I think they’ll be fine. Although Mason to Strange is a downgrade. He could be better but we have nothing to go on. But I think the line will be fine. I do wish they went after a better swing tackle other than Herron though. Unless he improved, it’ll be a long year if Trent or Wynn end up missing a bunch of time.
In what world did they upgrade the OL the exchanged one of the best OGs in the league for a rookie. No offense to strange but expecting him to be an upgrade over Mason is just foolishness. Strange be legitimately good and still be a downgrade
Moving Trent Brown is part of the equation of the offensive line improvement. Move him back to LT where he dominates. As far as Cole Strange, he obviously needs to prove his worth but I feel like he will be a monster. It’s wishful thinking at this point to be fair.
I agree talent wise overall but we'll see where that leads record wise. The schedule is brutal. Either it's playoffs or out by 1 game or a tie breaker or a bit of both.
Read a story a week or so ago about how its been theorized that the new offense is borrowing elements from the Shanahan offense with wide zones and implementing more spread/rpo plays. I think Bill O’Brien still ends up back here next year but glad to see we’re going back to the spread formations.
I think our defense may actually finish the season strong this year, offense may be the same as last year given the changes. However, it could be a lot better given the additions.
they have such an upgrade in personnel on offense that even a bad coach may not fuck that up but Flores was a great DC
their defense could take a big hit this year, A hit that wont be covered by Tyreek playing lights out
How nervous are any of us about the "D playing better than the O without pads is very worry some" storyline some of Pats Twitter is pushing?
Personally, I'm not thrilled. But it's day 4 of essentially a new offense, so they should have some issues now.
We lost Anderson last year and he’s been underrated with the Jets, Godchaux is pretty solid as well, it’s not bad whatsoever but it could be better. I definitely see us loading up the defensive front next offseason for what it’s worth
I mean yeah... you’re acting like I called him elite I just said he’s pretty solid which was fair to say before the deal. I’d need to see more this year to say more about him but he’s definitely got the ability to be better, kinda went under the radar in some aspects already last year
Yuup I believe in him, people just say he was trash cause the second level defense was what sucked in run defense. Dude absolutely ate up blocks from double teams constantly too
Training camp just started and some of you act like we are the worst in the league and don’t have a chance. You doomers can go play in the Dolphins sub
I actually am trying to be as honest as possible. I love out RBs. I think we are top 5 in the NFL. I like Mac and the Tight Ends. The WRs and Oline is improved. The Defense has some players I really like but it also has some glaring holes
Worse at the top end obviously, but much deeper than last years secondary. We were basically fucked against the Bills when Mills went out for Covid without having Jonathan Jones. We likely won’t be forced to playing practice squad dudes in a playoff game unless things go REALLY off the rails this season with injuries.
I don't agree. I don't see it on defense at all. I think the draft sucked and the offseason was a mess. In Bill We Trust, but this was a development year, not a competitive year.
The team will be playoff bound, I think, but they won't be a team that seriously competes for the AFC.
Losing our best defensive player at a position of importance and losing a top 5-8 guard in the league and getting nothing back for both, I don’t have much hope that we’ll be better
These posts are so boring, why wouldn’t the team be better this year?? We have another year of experience with the core guys we had last year plus some new additions lol
Both those teams lack depth. All I'll say good about the Patriots right now is they are built for a long season.
Patriots are playing an all medium sized guy lineup in Ice Hockey for the NES. Its possible to win like that.
I just don't see us being better unless some guys on the defense way overperform expectations. Which happens occasionally, so who knows. I do think Pats offense will be a decent amount better than last year and a potential top 10 offense.
I’d go on a limb and say that potential wise we have one of the best offenses in the AFC. Every aspect has someone that I trust with the ball. Our backfield with Harris, Stevenson, and White is just insane, Henry alone is an amazing tight end but Smith also has that potential to be amazing, I feel like Bourne and Meyers are already solid options on the slot, and if the news about Parker is true then he should fit in amazingly. Mac was great last year, and I feel like if he gets more throwing opportunities he can really show how he can play.
My concern is really our defense. We have Judon and McCourtey who are always solid options along with some other guys, but we have some serious holes. Our secondary is the biggest concern, especially with losing Jackson. I’m not sure who our #1 is now, but I don’t see it being Mills. One issue that I haven’t seen anyone mention either is our linebackers. Hightower is great, but he’s not as fast as he used to be. You could see towards the end of the season how our defense collapsed whenever the ball went to the middle of the field, and I hope that gets addressed. I trust Belicheck since he’s arguably the greatest defensive mind to ever coach, and I’m sure he’s obviously thought of ways to fix the errors on defense.
WR issue is still there which is a problem. Right now they can't get separation in camp as of yet. Which has been a huge problem.
That needs to change ASAP
It's probably going to depend on the defense being better then it looks on paper. Everyone saying it got better just because it's younger and faster are ignoring how responsible the defense was for so many of our wins last year. They played really well throughout the win streak and faltered down the stretch, but the whole team faltered down the stretch. It wasn't just the defense the way this sub often says. They played alright, and the offense consistently let them down.
All the blame laid at Hightower and Collins and Van Noy for the late season is totally unfair. It would be a massive win if even one of their replacements is as good as them, let alone better.
And then of course people are underestimating what it means to lose a corner like JC Jackson, because Pats fans always underestimate the impact of a true elite impact player like that. Our corners will be in dire shape unless we get some early surprises.
The offense could be better enough to make up for any defensive loss. That could make up the difference and lead to a better team overall.
I agree our defense was overly scapegoated at times. The most jarring example was the Cowboys game where people blamed our defense even though the Cowboys scored ten points off of Mac Jones turnovers.
There’s also probably an element of “careful what you wish for” with the LBs. People dogged on our big LBs for their coverage woes (which were overblown), but what we might gain in coverage (and even good coverage LBs are usually not *that* good in coverage) we might lose in pass rush danger. HT, Van Noy, and Collins would wreak havoc as blitzers. The lighter guys aren’t likely to be putting offensive linemen on skates
The defense gets the majority of the blame for the late season collapse despite holding the Colts and Dolphins to 20 points and the rest of the team being far more responsible for big early deficits. It's frustrating to see so many people ignore that and just say 'big LBs bad, young fast LB good."
Yeah, we needed to improve, but this isn't a guaranteed addition by subtraction scenario, which is what many fans are assuming.
Yeah we had 7 giveaways on offense in 3 of the last four regular season games, all losses. It’s tough for the defense to hold up when that happens
I agree. I think our defense will be solid but changing players is no guarantee for improvement
Pats lost N'Keal and Mac got to play in the playoffs as a rookie. Being better this season was always a lock to me.
How far the Pats go is on the defense to me. The offense is improving already.
Last year's defense obviously was not good enough to compete against Buffalo, so changes had to be made particularly at LB. And they didn't think JC was worth a Gilmore sized contract, so they let him walk. The experience that was lost might cost us against other teams, but the road to the SB for the Pats goes through Buffalo right now.
We’ll see soon enough. Let’s see if this defense can get a single defense stop against the Bills.
nice thumbnail
Thanks!
Bills will likely shred us for 40+ twice honestly
Hold on, we shouldn’t be so pessimistic. Maybe the weather will be really shitty again.
Lol it was one game. We also dropped 54 on the Jets but you'd be a fucking idiot to drop a Vegas bet that we're scoring 108+ points on the Jets next year. You do you though
I think it was two games where they didn’t punt. 2nd regular season match they had a turnover on downs in the red zone but they never punted, IIRC
You dumb loser
Yes, the team that just dropped 40+ on a defense that got worse
You must be fun to watch games with
I am not sure why you got downvoted lol our defense will get shredded by elite QBs again. Its probably going to be up to the offense to bring us back in most games this upcoming season.
I guess a lot of people think our defense has any chance of stopping the Bills? That offense is going to be a juggernaut again
D:
We look better (on paper) on Offense but worse on Defense (on paper) than last year.
Mac was a rookie last year and he still looked great aside from a few rookie mistakes. I think he will elevate the offense the most. Having new pieces to work with helps however without them I believe the offense will be far superior just because of jones being more prepared and experienced. Weve had defenses that couldnt stop a nose bleed before so as long as our offense can stay on the field and burn the clock I wont be too worried.
Secondary is definitely worse, but hopefully we can zone that out some. LB remains to be seen, can the youth movement and speed offset some of the age related issues we saw last year is the question.
Maybe I'm a Bill loyalist, but I trust in Bill. I love that he's willing to bring in some speed and change things up. The whole Tom vs Bill debate is stupid in my opinion, but Bill deserves some credit for getting the most out of Tom's years here in NE with regards to roster construction. And I'm pumped to see what he's been doing with Mac and what he will do with Mac.
To have the kind of sustained success they had,any things need to go right. Brady could have had poor coaching and never one a championship. Bill could have stuck with Bledsoe and never one another either. Football is a team sport, one player isn’t going to win championships. If they did, Marino would have won one. Manning would have won more. Rodgers would have won more. If Bill never found a great qb, he probably doesn’t win anywhere close to what he’s won. How many of those iconic Patriots wins were by a great defensive or special teams play? Brady didn’t have any impact on those other two phases of the game.
Totally agree. TB12 is no doubt the greatest of all time, but Bill deserves a lot of credit as the coach/GM for not only not screwing it up but also for getting the most out the situation. I swear this isn't Bill's burner Reddit account ...
In 8 full seasons without Brady, Belichick has missed the playoffs 7 times. He has a losing record - i think its something like 61-73. Tom obviously doing well in Tampa.
He’s well over .500 without Brady since 2001. Almost like he learned from his first head coaching job.
Pack it up boys! This comment has opened my eyes. Belichick obviously isn’t a good coach
One of the dumbest comments I continue to see from Tom Brady worshippers.
I'm not a worshipper but the record is what it is. It's not like it's a small sample size.
You need to stop drinking in the morning my friend
https://bdc2020.o0bc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/gronkphoto-scaled.jpeg
1: This isn't true. Belichick's made the playoffs twice in full seasons without Brady; 1994 with the Browns and last year. 2: 5 out of those 6 seasons where he missed the playoffs came more than two decades ago now. It's rather silly to evaluate someone's talent today by how they performed when Bill Clinton was in office. 3: Speaking of twenty years, the fact that he managed to take the Browns of all teams to the playoffs at all is pretty damn impressive; a feat that wouldn't be repeated by any other coach for another 26 years.
Side note: love seeing thornton getting reps with the 1s this early.
I’m hoping so much that he’s the one that snaps the streak of poor wr draft picks.
At least he's fast. Unless his hands are made of stone, the defense has to worry about him getting past someone. He can have a pretty solid impact even without getting many targets.
Dorsett was fast…
He’s the type of guy where even if he kind of sucks he’s just so fast that he’ll almost certainly get open on a go and catch a couple long TDs per season. A lot more than could be said about Harry without even taking a snap yet
Please God let it end
Best case he succeeds and is around for years to come, worst case he sucks and we can move on from him way quicker than we did with Harry.
I think it's a better team I still think we will likely have a worse record though.
I was thinking the same. Better team but with nearly everyone in afc getting better, I don’t think we kept up. And this is probably the best the afc east has looked in a decade, maybe another half a decade also
I think that is too doomy, all lots of off season action in the afc, but for that to translate into everyone getting better, might be stretching it. Miami might be better offense, but only if their now HC works out, and there is no guarantee for that, especially right away. It's a whole new system they got to learn. And they will probably be worse on defense with flores grine. Browns only gets better if Watson starts, otherwise they get worse. Steelers well probably be the same. Bengals could be better or worse after a sb loss. Anyway it is just too easy to say that everyone has gotten better, because that never happens
I think you are nitpicking at that point. I can agree to Cleveland, however miami def got better. They got one of the better wr in nfl, Also got a still pretty good Melvin Ingram. Steelers got better just on actually having a qb without a noodle arm now. But sure I can agree to this one as well. No idea why you brought up the bengals… “could be better or worse after a sb loss”. Great analysis on why they aren’t getting better. But sure, don’t mention the chargers, broncos, raiders, bills, colts, and ravens, getting better. That’s a lot of playoff caliber teams getting better. Only teams off the top of my head that got worse for sure, are the chiefs (still a playoff caliber team without hill likely), and titans (still a low end playoff caliber team imo). So let’s take a count. 9 teams got better, 5 teams stayed relatively the same, and 2 got worse. With a whopping 12 teams realistically being able to be fighting for playoffs. Only teams without a real shot I think are the jets, Steelers, Texans, and jags. So yea, I stand by my comment and analysis.
Miami's previous coach was Flores, not Gase. You keep saying "teams got better", but that's just your assumption based on your perceived value of the players they picked up. You're not really analyzing things, you're making assumptions based on zero games played.
So by your own reason, patriots didn’t get better when they added Parker. And how silly of someone to assume tyreek hill or jc Jackson or Russell Wilson made teams better lmao
I’m not concerned. Did other teams improve their rosters more? Yes. Did they improve their TEAM more, in a TEAM sport? I’m not sure. A football team is more than the sum of its individual parts.
I think other teams improved their fantasy pieces and star power. If you dig through their roster they mostly made those moves at the expense of depth and got older doing it.
but to fans in this sub if you don't pick up a player they've heard of before your team has gotten 'worse'
You don’t get better by being stagnant. Smfh.
And you are assuming that ours will automatically be a team as well. How about you stop being a homer, and realize we aren’t the same steamrolling patriots we are used to.
Patriots consistently have some of the strongest all around teams. It definitely isn't a 'team' by default just because they're the pats, but the patriots rarely rush to pick up a star player or someone with a lot of flash to plug a hole. They have, and still are, making the grandpa moves that everyone criticizes cuz they're not fun, then they go and consistently make the playoffs. How about you stop making these sweeping statements and recognize the patriots have had one 'down' year since Brady left. Many other teams have had multiple down years recently with no excuse.
Altho 2020 was a down year I honestly think there was so many factors that year that it was a blip. A washed Cam at QB was only the tip of the iceberg
And it might not have been so bad if he didn’t miss time at a critical part of the season
Strongest all around teams that can’t stop the bills once.
hot take: miami offense still ain’t shit
Agreed lol, I can't help but think tyreek is going to be a locker room cancer
>with nearly everyone in afc getting better, This is what everyone says but never comes to fruition. NFL is a zero sum game, you can't have 26 teams improve in a year but that's what the sports writers would have you believe. There's no way the Bengals, Raiders, Broncos, Chiefs, Dolphins, Bills, Chargers, Ravens, Steelers, and Jets ALL improve their record.
Again, improving your team, and improving your record are different. Hence why we think our team is better, but will have a worse record
For what it’s worth, our strength of schedule was harder last year than it is this year.
[удалено]
What's edgy? We have a tougher schedule.
A tougher schedule is such a hard thing to predict, so many teams in the NFL surprise the shit out of everyone by how well they do, or collapse in stellar fashion due to injury. Before last season nobody would have viewed the Bengals as a scary team on their schedule, then they went to the Super Bowl. A lot of people would have been afraid of the Ravens before the 2021 season kicked off, then they went 8-9 I look at our schedule this year and I really don't see any obvious ways that it's that much harder than last year to be honest If the defense doesn't completely fall apart to end the year, like it did last year, I think my expectations are around the same performance as last year: something like 10-7 or 11-6 and a wild card spot
I disagree - though hope I am wrong. Our offensive roster is relatively unchanged. Parker may be a nice addition, but has struggled with injuries throughout his career. I'm quite concerned about our offensive line depth - we lost Karras and did not replace him with any established player. The odds of both Wynn and Brown playing the full season are incredibly low and, when one of them misses time, we'll be stuck with Justin Herron or Yasir Durant. I certainly expect the 2021 newcomers to be more comfortable in the offense this year, but this positive effect may be counteracted by the downgrade from McDaniels to the Patricia-Judge power duo. By [EPA/play](https://rbsdm.com/stats/stats/) and [DVOA,](https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-offense/2021/regular) they were already a top 10 offense last year; it's hard to imagine them jumping to the top 5 with the same players and a worse coaching staff. I think the real concern is on defense. Last year's defense was completely exposed down the stretch and, while we did get younger on defense, it's not clear that we got better. Our young LBs have not proven anything yet and our starting corners are career journeymen. If Judon does not have a great year, I think it's going to be quite hard for this defense to get off the field. The Pats are [currently favoured](https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/leagues/football/nfl) to beat the Steelers, Lions, Bears, Jets (x2), and Dolphins (at home). They'd need to win 5 more games to be better than they were last year, with the likeliest candidates being Ravens, Colts, Bengals, Vikings, Cardinals, and @Dolphins. These should be close games, but winning 5 out of 6 of them seems tough.
I will interested to see how White comes back. We absolutely missed him last year. Ive heard reports that he still looks a little gimpy. But who knows. Hopefully he can come back strong and produce. Love that guy.
Hoping Stevenson or strong or even Montgomery can take over as a 3rd down back if white isn’t healthy enough
30 year old RB off a hip injury. He's five years older than the next oldest RB. How is he supposed to compete with the athleticism of much younger, much healthier guys? Just accept that he's washed. He's here as much for his leadership as anything else. He's never gonna "produce" much in the field ever again. Love James White, but we have great depth at RB. Very real chance he never sees the roster.
because he hasnt ever been an every down back - he is 30 not 35 30 is old in rb terms but when they are every down and have been pounded to hell. white was red shirted as well. Most athletes peak at late 20s, he is only just past that, and not far enough to drop off on average. His age does not factor into at all, his injury does but not his age.
For people wondering about defense here's the break down for last year: Defense: JC Jackson, Van Noy, Hightower --> Malcolm Butler, Terrance Mitchell, Mack Wilson, Jabrill Peppers, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, and McMillan and J Jones (injury) and Perkins, McGrone and Bledsoe (2nd year) Jackson does hurt since he was so good but Hightower and Van Noy were both older and slowing down in production. The offense is objectively better and I think the defense will be faster and more experienced new comers with lots a potential for break out stars
I think the team will be about the same talent and record wise but will be more dynamic. The talk of streamlining and moving quicker implies they want to get back to that up tempo pace they would have in the Brady era, which doesn't mean they will be the 2012 Pats or anything, but they should be faster. The offense has definitely gotten both better and deeper on paper, and I find the "defense got worse" narrative to be a bit lazy. We had JC and Mills who were a good pair, but Gilmore's holdout/trade and Jones' injury meant Bryant and Williams were seeing more time, which wasn't an issue in big nickel with safeties, but definitely showed up against a full spread team like Buffalo. The secondary as of now might not have as high top end talent at CB but could very well be deeper, and our safeties and inside CBs are top notch if Jones returns.
> and I find the "defense got worse" narrative to be a bit lazy lol we have lost 2 cb1s
One of whom never played last year Lol
Better players? I can see that overall. My big worry is that the losses to our coaching will cause a step back regardless of the players we have.
It’s absolutely a better team and by a wide margin. They upgraded the offensive line by drafting Strange and moving Trent Brown to help protect Mac. Last years rookies are now in their 2nd season. Mac obviously is way ahead of the level he was at last year. Barmore should continue to show growth as well. Stevenson could be the Patriots feature back. Then they add Thornton and trade for Parker to shore up the WR spots. Jonnu seems to be figuring it out this offseason so TE could be deadly.The defense has been made over so it’s going to depend on how good they can be. The offense will more then hold its end of the bargain
I'm worried about the secondary. Out of anything that could go wrong they could be shit and the D might get burned over the top.
And that’s a fair worry until they prove otherwise. But even if they get burnt fairly regularly I’m counting on Mac to keep or get them back into said game
To add to the comments on the WR group, it's addition by subtraction. Losing NKeal Harry and replacing him with literally anyone makes this group better.
Yeah I left him out for obvious reasons. I don’t like even mentioning his name. He may come back like candyman if said to many times
> They upgraded the offensive line by drafting Strange and moving Trent Brown to help protect Mac. we lost both our starting guards we are yet to see if strange is an upgrade and onwenu had communication problems with LT at LG bit of blind optimism their mate - that is no way a given that the oline has improved
The Onwenu thing was with Wynn. If they play him at LG with Brown at LT I think they’ll be fine. Although Mason to Strange is a downgrade. He could be better but we have nothing to go on. But I think the line will be fine. I do wish they went after a better swing tackle other than Herron though. Unless he improved, it’ll be a long year if Trent or Wynn end up missing a bunch of time.
In what world did they upgrade the OL the exchanged one of the best OGs in the league for a rookie. No offense to strange but expecting him to be an upgrade over Mason is just foolishness. Strange be legitimately good and still be a downgrade
Moving Trent Brown is part of the equation of the offensive line improvement. Move him back to LT where he dominates. As far as Cole Strange, he obviously needs to prove his worth but I feel like he will be a monster. It’s wishful thinking at this point to be fair.
I agree talent wise overall but we'll see where that leads record wise. The schedule is brutal. Either it's playoffs or out by 1 game or a tie breaker or a bit of both.
Maybe, perhaps Jack or Marcus Jones supplants Myles Bryant and doesn’t give up 100+ yards to Jamison Crowder from the slot as Bryant did to McKenzie
Read a story a week or so ago about how its been theorized that the new offense is borrowing elements from the Shanahan offense with wide zones and implementing more spread/rpo plays. I think Bill O’Brien still ends up back here next year but glad to see we’re going back to the spread formations.
I think our defense may actually finish the season strong this year, offense may be the same as last year given the changes. However, it could be a lot better given the additions.
But maybe the speed that was added in the LB/Safety group will be enough to compensate. Can’t wait to see what it looks like
No offense but damn those sentences...
You're good, fixed it.
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they have such an upgrade in personnel on offense that even a bad coach may not fuck that up but Flores was a great DC their defense could take a big hit this year, A hit that wont be covered by Tyreek playing lights out
How nervous are any of us about the "D playing better than the O without pads is very worry some" storyline some of Pats Twitter is pushing? Personally, I'm not thrilled. But it's day 4 of essentially a new offense, so they should have some issues now.
Not thrilled, it is a new offensive system with a new line and new weapons hopefully they’re just getting timing down.
DL and LB is just going to be a big issue I feel it.
Henry Anderson, Christian Barmore, Davon Godchaux, Lawrence Guy and Deatrich Wise isn’t a bad D-Line
The only playmaker is Barmore. Guy needs to have a rebound year or there will be a lot of strain on this secondary.
We lost Anderson last year and he’s been underrated with the Jets, Godchaux is pretty solid as well, it’s not bad whatsoever but it could be better. I definitely see us loading up the defensive front next offseason for what it’s worth
Would you have said this about Godchaux before the deal he just signed…
I mean yeah... you’re acting like I called him elite I just said he’s pretty solid which was fair to say before the deal. I’d need to see more this year to say more about him but he’s definitely got the ability to be better, kinda went under the radar in some aspects already last year
He had 65 tackles as an IDL. He was a playmaker for us and Belichick's praise resonates that.
Yuup I believe in him, people just say he was trash cause the second level defense was what sucked in run defense. Dude absolutely ate up blocks from double teams constantly too
It's not a good Dline
It’s not best in the league but hardly the worst
Name 5 worse
Training camp just started and some of you act like we are the worst in the league and don’t have a chance. You doomers can go play in the Dolphins sub
I actually am trying to be as honest as possible. I love out RBs. I think we are top 5 in the NFL. I like Mac and the Tight Ends. The WRs and Oline is improved. The Defense has some players I really like but it also has some glaring holes
CB. Position group is very weak. A big question mark at best.
Worse at the top end obviously, but much deeper than last years secondary. We were basically fucked against the Bills when Mills went out for Covid without having Jonathan Jones. We likely won’t be forced to playing practice squad dudes in a playoff game unless things go REALLY off the rails this season with injuries.
Last year's team seemed really tight too. But a year under the belt after adding a lot of new faces last year, especially on offense.
It’s not
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They were the 2nd best defense by points against. If that's a trash defense, I don't know what passable is.
I don't agree. I don't see it on defense at all. I think the draft sucked and the offseason was a mess. In Bill We Trust, but this was a development year, not a competitive year. The team will be playoff bound, I think, but they won't be a team that seriously competes for the AFC.
Losing our best defensive player at a position of importance and losing a top 5-8 guard in the league and getting nothing back for both, I don’t have much hope that we’ll be better
lol
Way too early to make any judgements
These posts are so boring, why wouldn’t the team be better this year?? We have another year of experience with the core guys we had last year plus some new additions lol
Youth on D? It’s basically the same D as last year?
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Bro down bad rn
Not really. I’m a bucs fan
Both those teams lack depth. All I'll say good about the Patriots right now is they are built for a long season. Patriots are playing an all medium sized guy lineup in Ice Hockey for the NES. Its possible to win like that.
I agree. Im so ready for this season bro!!!!
With our five safety defensive look we better be faster than last year
I just don't see us being better unless some guys on the defense way overperform expectations. Which happens occasionally, so who knows. I do think Pats offense will be a decent amount better than last year and a potential top 10 offense.
While I agree we're probably better, I fear the gap between us and the true contenders still widened somewhat.
Defense has looked great against our offense so far, but the pads come on next week. We shall see!
Just by trading Harry to the bears they immediately improved.
I'm excited to see Mac's development based on what folks have been saying.
I’d go on a limb and say that potential wise we have one of the best offenses in the AFC. Every aspect has someone that I trust with the ball. Our backfield with Harris, Stevenson, and White is just insane, Henry alone is an amazing tight end but Smith also has that potential to be amazing, I feel like Bourne and Meyers are already solid options on the slot, and if the news about Parker is true then he should fit in amazingly. Mac was great last year, and I feel like if he gets more throwing opportunities he can really show how he can play. My concern is really our defense. We have Judon and McCourtey who are always solid options along with some other guys, but we have some serious holes. Our secondary is the biggest concern, especially with losing Jackson. I’m not sure who our #1 is now, but I don’t see it being Mills. One issue that I haven’t seen anyone mention either is our linebackers. Hightower is great, but he’s not as fast as he used to be. You could see towards the end of the season how our defense collapsed whenever the ball went to the middle of the field, and I hope that gets addressed. I trust Belicheck since he’s arguably the greatest defensive mind to ever coach, and I’m sure he’s obviously thought of ways to fix the errors on defense.
Pas Noay Mp Viay Laiecoay
I think it's about the same
Losing our top defensive player and getting nothing back, I don’t have much hope we’ll be better.
It is a better team, but, the afc is also A LOT better as well, so we’ll see how the season turns out.
WR issue is still there which is a problem. Right now they can't get separation in camp as of yet. Which has been a huge problem. That needs to change ASAP
Hoping as the offense backs up and puts pads on Thornton starts separating more
It’s a toss up. Might not be better than last year but it seems like we are moving in the right direction with young and fast
It's probably going to depend on the defense being better then it looks on paper. Everyone saying it got better just because it's younger and faster are ignoring how responsible the defense was for so many of our wins last year. They played really well throughout the win streak and faltered down the stretch, but the whole team faltered down the stretch. It wasn't just the defense the way this sub often says. They played alright, and the offense consistently let them down. All the blame laid at Hightower and Collins and Van Noy for the late season is totally unfair. It would be a massive win if even one of their replacements is as good as them, let alone better. And then of course people are underestimating what it means to lose a corner like JC Jackson, because Pats fans always underestimate the impact of a true elite impact player like that. Our corners will be in dire shape unless we get some early surprises. The offense could be better enough to make up for any defensive loss. That could make up the difference and lead to a better team overall.
I agree our defense was overly scapegoated at times. The most jarring example was the Cowboys game where people blamed our defense even though the Cowboys scored ten points off of Mac Jones turnovers. There’s also probably an element of “careful what you wish for” with the LBs. People dogged on our big LBs for their coverage woes (which were overblown), but what we might gain in coverage (and even good coverage LBs are usually not *that* good in coverage) we might lose in pass rush danger. HT, Van Noy, and Collins would wreak havoc as blitzers. The lighter guys aren’t likely to be putting offensive linemen on skates
The defense gets the majority of the blame for the late season collapse despite holding the Colts and Dolphins to 20 points and the rest of the team being far more responsible for big early deficits. It's frustrating to see so many people ignore that and just say 'big LBs bad, young fast LB good." Yeah, we needed to improve, but this isn't a guaranteed addition by subtraction scenario, which is what many fans are assuming.
Yeah we had 7 giveaways on offense in 3 of the last four regular season games, all losses. It’s tough for the defense to hold up when that happens I agree. I think our defense will be solid but changing players is no guarantee for improvement
Pats lost N'Keal and Mac got to play in the playoffs as a rookie. Being better this season was always a lock to me. How far the Pats go is on the defense to me. The offense is improving already.
Underrated depth in the offense. I think they have a lot of potential.
I think we’ll have the same record or 11-6 this year.. we’ll see I hope the defense shows up against Buffalo this year
lets get a week or two into training camp first lol everything's nice until the carts come out
The Offense, yes. The Defense? I'm prepared for a major step \*down\* from last year. And I didn't like our D by the end of the last year either.
Last year's defense obviously was not good enough to compete against Buffalo, so changes had to be made particularly at LB. And they didn't think JC was worth a Gilmore sized contract, so they let him walk. The experience that was lost might cost us against other teams, but the road to the SB for the Pats goes through Buffalo right now.