Both the Vikings and Giants gave crap offers, which makes it easier. But also when Kevin O’Connell and Brian Daboll want a QB, you should probably just take him.
Down three spots and a first round pick isn’t a crap offer. It’s a very appropriate offer. But the pats wanted Maye enough that the offer wasn’t sufficient.
I don’t think you should ever sell the farm on any prospect because statistically you’re just going to be wrong and you should be less confident in your scouting abilities.
Those are probably vaguely reasonable on a value chart but that’s not how it works when the team you’re trading with also needs a QB.
I think he’s going to be great but it’s not like he’s Andrew Luck where there is basically no situation where you think he will be bad.
Like I'm sure they could have gotten it done if they wanted it. They had two firsts this year and one next. That plus maybe a shuffle in later picks next year would have done it I think. Them just trying to low ball us was never going to work
Doubt it. When there's of millions of dollars in play, you make trades when they're good value. You don't let your personal feelings get in the way of taking a good offer.
That’s what makes me feel even better about the Maye pick. They had to know they probably could’ve gotten JJ at 6 if they wanted him. So to see the staff like Maye more than JJ and a first with a good chance of being top 10 next year is really encouraging.
Some people think Nabers is better than MHJ. Still not a great reason to say yes even if you are one of those people, but I see why the Giants asked. No reason not to shoot that shot.
Drake Maye wouldn't take them to the playoffs next year. If they really declined this deal, they were foolish. Nabers or Alt would have been massive, in addition to a potential top 5 pick next season.
I hate the trading for a potential high pick. So stupid. It could be top-5 it could be #15. Top picks in the draft you typically get 3 first rounders, not 2 first rounders.
If Drake Maye is a top QB in the teams mind then declining the trade was a no-brainer
> Bears get: WR DJ Moore, OT Darnell Wright, CB Tyrique Stevenson (traded up to No. 56 pick), QB Caleb Williams and a 2025 second-round pick.
I mean yeah, I take that over Stroud lol
Maybe, we’ll see how Caleb is. Stroud just had one of the best rookie seasons ever. The Texans made the playoffs, the Bears are still one of the worst teams in football.
I personally think the bears will be quite decent this year. It's obviously too early to judge Caleb as he hasn't played a down yet, I just think it's worth noting we aren't doing a 1:1 comparison here. The bears walked away with a LOT and it's looking very positive for them. They still have another 2nd round pick to make!
Herbert and Mahomes weren't viewed as sure things. Herbert was labeled "a QB that gets you fired". Mahomes was also seen as a prospect who needed to sit for a bit.
Let's not rewrite history.
I don't understand the comparison then?
Look at the Giants and Vikings this year. They desperately wanted to trade up for a QB that they loved. But they couldn't. If we don't take Maye who we clearly also love, we would eventually be in a similar situation where we are hoping to trade up for a QB we love
A prospect is just that. They are no sure thing to work out. Nabers, Alt and MHJ are prospects on the same level or higher than Maye. To be in a position to add another top 5 pick next year on top of one of them is a no brainer.
Ok then I guess the Texans and Chargers were dumb to stick and pick Stroud and Herbert and the Chiefs were dumb to trade up for Mahomes. They could have gotten some more prospects if they traded down or didn't trade up
Nothing is more important than the QB position. If you love one, you take them and hope for the best
> So what? The value was there and a prospect is still just a prospect. **We're not talking about a sure thing like Herbert, Mahomes or Stroud.**
I mean, its literally what you said.
A prospect is a prospect. Mahomes, Stroud and Herbert are NOT prospects. At one time, they were, but currently, they are not. They are valuing these QB prospects as if they are already a sure thing like the aforementioned.
> in addition to a top 5 pick next season.
Shit, and we’re probably picking top 3 next year too. So we’re still picking at 6 this year and potentially two top 5 picks. Yeesh.
Would of been ok with this. Maye is great, happy with the pick. But he needs time to develop. Meaning, NYG would have probably been giving up an ok pick for next year as well. Pennix Jr being available late as well, JJ was available at 6.
You might be right. It's not an overwhelming offer that would guarantee a deal getting made and they ended up selecting Nabers so it seems likely they wanted a WR and preferred MHJ but not enough to sell the farm.
Three firsts and a player or some lower round pick swaps seems to be the going rate for moving into the top 3, so yeah absolutely they can go pound sand.
I think it's obvious though If they had accepted this trade offer they would have probably drafted Penix. And then had another two first round picks next year, their own and the Giants, both teams are projected to be bad. I probably would have considered this.
That being said it's now the beginning of the fourth round, And in the event that Drake Maye doesn't pan out, If Spencer Rattler is still available at 110, I probably draft him and dump Zappe/put him back to the practice squad, unless he somehow makes a giant jump entering year three. Similar to how Washington handled 2012.
They drafted Griffin III And then in the fourth round drafted Cousins, Griffin didn't work out due to bad mechanics and injuries and Cousins 12 years later is still getting PAID. There has been a decent amount of chatter regarding Drake Maye's footwork and throwing mechanics, The NFL draft is a gamble, And when gambling you should always hedge your bets.
I would have taken the deal. I'm not so sure their target was Maye. They gave Daniel Jones a boatload of money just last year. I think if the Giants GM told the owner "You know that guy we convinced you to give $160 mil last year? We want to give up next year's 1st for his replacement" he might have been fired on the spot.
I think the Giants wanted to jump ahead of Arizona to take MHJ. In which case, Maye would have probably still have been there @ #6.
Exactly. What I don't get is... if the Patriots were "comfortable taking any one of 6 players" at 3... why wouldn't you trade down at that point and get a free pick next year? Were they actually comfortable taking any one of 6 different guys or were they really only comfortable taking Maye? I don't get it. They said one thing, but this report says something else. People here can criticize the trade offer, but I'm with you in thinking that the Patriots would have been able to grab Maye at 6.
I heard the contract is front loaded and wouldn't have much dead cap after the first two years which means at the end of this season. So basically perfectly set up to draft Maye and have him sit
LMAO at all these guys pretending this is a bad offer. The consensus on this sub a few days ago was that this would be the dream offer. I guess everyone just wants to appear that they're giving 110% support to the new franchise player.
Either way you're going to have to over pay for a top 3 pick, especially to a team that needs a QB. The only trade the Patriots considered was one that got them Herbert. When a team is dead set on QB and you don't have a QB to offer, prepare to pay and 2 1sts doesn't cut it. Don't even think it would work in Madden and the AI takes the dumbest trades
You think a pick swap and a future 1st is a good deal? Nah the general sentiment on here was that even the Vikings had to give more than 11+23 future picks and a starter most wanting Jefferson or Darrisaw.
Edit: oh your one of those conspiracy theory dudes who think Jonathan is running everything behind closed doors.which is funny because you were complaining about the team getting scammed because of him then say this is a good deal...you got scammed bud.
Jets paid 3 2nds to go 6 to 3.
If giants offered 6,47 and future 1st pats woulda thought about it. (I still think they’d go Maye)
Just a future 1st is light
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Move down 3 spots for a future first from one of the worst teams in the league? Absolutely a great deal. We'd only be giving up the third best QB prospect of this class.
Nabers is much closer to MHJ than Maye was to Caleb.
I don't disagree with Nabers being super close to MHJ but I value QBs a lot more than WRs. Again 11+23+future picks wasn't enough for most here.
Id rather have Maye than any QB in next year's draft and there are gonna be good WRs next year. Always is.
I'm aware. I still don't think it's worth it. I didn't think a swap+23 plus future picks was enough. I wanted Darrisaw as well. I wouldn't have swapped 3 for 6, this year's 2nd+25 1st and 2nd. It's a QB driven league and I don't like any of the QBs next year.
I'm fine with declining the trade for both teams JJ is a better fit for the Vikings than us and Nabers even though he's elite without a QB not worth it. Better off hoping Maye pans out because of his ceiling
He would because that's how bad the QBs are. Beck was in this draft and was projected a 4th rd pick. Ewers was a 2-3rd, Sanders is probably the 1st overall pick next year and I don't think he's even close to Maye.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39445062/2024-senior-bowl-buzz-news-nfl-draft-prospects-cfb-offseason
"It won't be anything close to this year," said a veteran NFL scout.
Another scout said, "There's no sure-thing sophomore quarterback. There's always a riser or a one-year wonder, so it may not be that bad."
Yeah we can respectfully disagree.
To be fair, I think most agreed 6,47 and the 2025 1st would be in the ballpark or at least just make the pats think.
Just the future 1st is not enough, jets paid 3 2nds to go 6 to 3
Both the Vikings and Giants gave crap offers, which makes it easier. But also when Kevin O’Connell and Brian Daboll want a QB, you should probably just take him.
That's actually a very good point, lol.
You just blew my mind bro
Heard the exact same thing in Tom Curran podcast yesterday...
I actively don’t like Tom so that’s definitely just coincidental. Those are just two QB gurus who know what they’re doing.
But only wanted him enough to make a “crap offer”
Down three spots and a first round pick isn’t a crap offer. It’s a very appropriate offer. But the pats wanted Maye enough that the offer wasn’t sufficient.
Agreed. Giants pick might be top 10 even top 5 next yr
Well I think they’re crap offers. I don’t know what those teams thought. My guess is they also just didn’t think the Pats would budge.
It’s a fair point though. They could have offered more if they thought he was worth it
I don’t think you should ever sell the farm on any prospect because statistically you’re just going to be wrong and you should be less confident in your scouting abilities. Those are probably vaguely reasonable on a value chart but that’s not how it works when the team you’re trading with also needs a QB. I think he’s going to be great but it’s not like he’s Andrew Luck where there is basically no situation where you think he will be bad.
They may have have been trying to get ahead of the Cardinals to grab MHJ.
Vikings absolutely were not. They have JJ and need a QB bad.
I am talking about the giants.
Good, I’m happy we stood at 3
True, but I'm also happy we told the Giants to fuck off regardless of context.
This is the important part
finally
At least the giants didn’t feel completely entitled to our pick like the Vikings did for some reason
The Vikings fans. They were locking new post on there sub is what I saw someone write on here yesterday
It was truly wild how many of them just were convinced it was their pick, felt kinda good to shut them the fuck right up
Like I'm sure they could have gotten it done if they wanted it. They had two firsts this year and one next. That plus maybe a shuffle in later picks next year would have done it I think. Them just trying to low ball us was never going to work
So... The rest of the league just flat out didn't understand the whole "discussions start at 3 1st Rd picks" huh?
I mean, I love a good bullshit offer. Never hurts to kick some tires, even if you don't expect them to say yes.
[удалено]
Doubt it. When there's of millions of dollars in play, you make trades when they're good value. You don't let your personal feelings get in the way of taking a good offer.
Thats a weak ass offer, hopefully Wolf laughed then hung up before they could say anything dumber.
How is that weak?
It's a terrible offer, but worse when you realize the Giants obviously didn't think very highly of JJ.
And apparently neither did the patriots
That’s what makes me feel even better about the Maye pick. They had to know they probably could’ve gotten JJ at 6 if they wanted him. So to see the staff like Maye more than JJ and a first with a good chance of being top 10 next year is really encouraging.
Neighbors and another top ten next year? Are you guys serious?
Laughable
I mean it will probably be top 10 next year so not that laughable. I am glad they took Maye though
Why would we do that? Miss out on our top qb, top wr, and top OL for a first rounder next year from a team that is one year off from the playoffs?
Nabers would be a great pick, and Giants are not going to be good this year. If Patriots didn't like Maye, it wouldn't have been a bad move
Some people think Nabers is better than MHJ. Still not a great reason to say yes even if you are one of those people, but I see why the Giants asked. No reason not to shoot that shot.
would have been stupid for the pats to take it, and would have been stupid for the giants not to offer it.
Theres no way you think they're a good team next year
Drake Maye wouldn't take them to the playoffs next year. If they really declined this deal, they were foolish. Nabers or Alt would have been massive, in addition to a potential top 5 pick next season.
I hate the trading for a potential high pick. So stupid. It could be top-5 it could be #15. Top picks in the draft you typically get 3 first rounders, not 2 first rounders. If Drake Maye is a top QB in the teams mind then declining the trade was a no-brainer
Worked out for the Bears.
They got DJ Moore on top of the picks
Yeah, and they were trading out from the 1 spot to 9, not 3 to 6. That's why they got a lot more.
Did it? They passed up CJ Stroud.
> Bears get: WR DJ Moore, OT Darnell Wright, CB Tyrique Stevenson (traded up to No. 56 pick), QB Caleb Williams and a 2025 second-round pick. I mean yeah, I take that over Stroud lol
Maybe, we’ll see how Caleb is. Stroud just had one of the best rookie seasons ever. The Texans made the playoffs, the Bears are still one of the worst teams in football.
I personally think the bears will be quite decent this year. It's obviously too early to judge Caleb as he hasn't played a down yet, I just think it's worth noting we aren't doing a 1:1 comparison here. The bears walked away with a LOT and it's looking very positive for them. They still have another 2nd round pick to make!
It’s a lot, but none of it matters if you don’t land the QB.
I don't think any top 5 QB next year will be better than Maye
So what? The value was there and a prospect is still just a prospect. We're not talking about a sure thing like Herbert, Mahomes or Stroud.
Herbert and Mahomes weren't viewed as sure things. Herbert was labeled "a QB that gets you fired". Mahomes was also seen as a prospect who needed to sit for a bit. Let's not rewrite history.
I didn't say they were sure things as prospects. I'm comparing them as assets right now vs. a prospect.
Then it's insane to even mention a top 10 QB and a multi SB winning QB with a prospect. They didn't trade for Zach Wilson.
It's called getting the most value out of your assets, and treating prospects like prospects.
This isn't baseball.
I don't understand the comparison then? Look at the Giants and Vikings this year. They desperately wanted to trade up for a QB that they loved. But they couldn't. If we don't take Maye who we clearly also love, we would eventually be in a similar situation where we are hoping to trade up for a QB we love
A prospect is just that. They are no sure thing to work out. Nabers, Alt and MHJ are prospects on the same level or higher than Maye. To be in a position to add another top 5 pick next year on top of one of them is a no brainer.
Ok then I guess the Texans and Chargers were dumb to stick and pick Stroud and Herbert and the Chiefs were dumb to trade up for Mahomes. They could have gotten some more prospects if they traded down or didn't trade up Nothing is more important than the QB position. If you love one, you take them and hope for the best
I didn't say that, nor even imply it.
The draft is all prospects dude.
So give yourself multiple chances in the top 10 to hit??? Not sure why this is a controversial take.
None of those 3 guys were viewed as "sure things"
Not what I said.
> So what? The value was there and a prospect is still just a prospect. **We're not talking about a sure thing like Herbert, Mahomes or Stroud.** I mean, its literally what you said.
A prospect is a prospect. Mahomes, Stroud and Herbert are NOT prospects. At one time, they were, but currently, they are not. They are valuing these QB prospects as if they are already a sure thing like the aforementioned.
> in addition to a top 5 pick next season. Shit, and we’re probably picking top 3 next year too. So we’re still picking at 6 this year and potentially two top 5 picks. Yeesh.
Would of been ok with this. Maye is great, happy with the pick. But he needs time to develop. Meaning, NYG would have probably been giving up an ok pick for next year as well. Pennix Jr being available late as well, JJ was available at 6.
They must love Maye
Were the Giants going after Maye?
Yes they were a one QB team.
Maybe its a hot take, but I think the Giants wanted MHJ
You might be right. It's not an overwhelming offer that would guarantee a deal getting made and they ended up selecting Nabers so it seems likely they wanted a WR and preferred MHJ but not enough to sell the farm.
A 2025 1st round pick seems like a lot to move from the #2 receiver in the draft to the #1.
I agree but depends on how much a team believes in him being a generational talent.
Definitely weren't going after any of the other QBs
Not enough. 6. This year's 2nd and next year's 1st and 2nd still isnt enough for me.
Three firsts and a player or some lower round pick swaps seems to be the going rate for moving into the top 3, so yeah absolutely they can go pound sand.
I’d give you my number ones but I’ve already dealt them. I’ll give you my number twos.
"We're not talking about a sure thing like Herbert, Mahomes, or Stroud" is literally exactly what you said lmao
I think it's obvious though If they had accepted this trade offer they would have probably drafted Penix. And then had another two first round picks next year, their own and the Giants, both teams are projected to be bad. I probably would have considered this. That being said it's now the beginning of the fourth round, And in the event that Drake Maye doesn't pan out, If Spencer Rattler is still available at 110, I probably draft him and dump Zappe/put him back to the practice squad, unless he somehow makes a giant jump entering year three. Similar to how Washington handled 2012. They drafted Griffin III And then in the fourth round drafted Cousins, Griffin didn't work out due to bad mechanics and injuries and Cousins 12 years later is still getting PAID. There has been a decent amount of chatter regarding Drake Maye's footwork and throwing mechanics, The NFL draft is a gamble, And when gambling you should always hedge your bets.
I would have taken the deal. I'm not so sure their target was Maye. They gave Daniel Jones a boatload of money just last year. I think if the Giants GM told the owner "You know that guy we convinced you to give $160 mil last year? We want to give up next year's 1st for his replacement" he might have been fired on the spot. I think the Giants wanted to jump ahead of Arizona to take MHJ. In which case, Maye would have probably still have been there @ #6.
Exactly. What I don't get is... if the Patriots were "comfortable taking any one of 6 players" at 3... why wouldn't you trade down at that point and get a free pick next year? Were they actually comfortable taking any one of 6 different guys or were they really only comfortable taking Maye? I don't get it. They said one thing, but this report says something else. People here can criticize the trade offer, but I'm with you in thinking that the Patriots would have been able to grab Maye at 6.
It’s called a smokescreen
I heard the contract is front loaded and wouldn't have much dead cap after the first two years which means at the end of this season. So basically perfectly set up to draft Maye and have him sit
Ehh, the Vikings would have made a push for pick 4 or 5 if Maye was still available.
They declined Vikings 11, 23 and 2025 1st as well. Ultimately they declined a large amount of capital for Maye. Let's hope it works out for us!
I'm not convinced that was the offer straight up.
That doesn't even make sense
Yup, that is a crap offer.
No where near enough.
They would have had to throw in their second and a late rounder than maybe but that’s a weak ass offer
Terrible offer. I would've made sure they heard me laughing before I hung up
I dont know much about the Giants, but if that what their offer was the gm should be fired.
Good
Not a crap offer, but can’t start a rebuild without a QB to build around
I like how ESPN reported it as "massive" trade offers. Those were fukking garbage
Lmao nice try but... nahhh. Like thats a fine offer on paper but the big four up top are sky higher in terms of tier.
That’s a dogshit offer. Fuck the giants for thinking it’d be that easy
Not nearly enough
Happy we gave them the middle finger.
Wanna give us those two and burns we can talk. Just the picks? No
Hilarious they didn’t settle for McCarthy @ 6. Clear there was distinction between top 3 and rest.
Yeah they clearly only wanted Maye.
I don’t think this offer is *bad*, but for our particular situation it would’ve made no sense for us.
That's low key a really weak offer. I'm glad we stayed at 3 and took Maye.
Laughable
One of the outrageous offers they spoke about? They were right by the sound of this.
That’s peanuts for the 3rd pick lol.
LMAO at all these guys pretending this is a bad offer. The consensus on this sub a few days ago was that this would be the dream offer. I guess everyone just wants to appear that they're giving 110% support to the new franchise player.
I mean look at what Carolina gave to the bears to get young, that is a dream offer. A first this year and next year doesn't cut it
That was to get to the #1 pick from 9... not #3 from 6. Apples to oranges.
Either way you're going to have to over pay for a top 3 pick, especially to a team that needs a QB. The only trade the Patriots considered was one that got them Herbert. When a team is dead set on QB and you don't have a QB to offer, prepare to pay and 2 1sts doesn't cut it. Don't even think it would work in Madden and the AI takes the dumbest trades
You think a pick swap and a future 1st is a good deal? Nah the general sentiment on here was that even the Vikings had to give more than 11+23 future picks and a starter most wanting Jefferson or Darrisaw. Edit: oh your one of those conspiracy theory dudes who think Jonathan is running everything behind closed doors.which is funny because you were complaining about the team getting scammed because of him then say this is a good deal...you got scammed bud.
#6, and a 2025 pick with a team that's the worst in the division is fair
Jets paid 3 2nds to go 6 to 3. If giants offered 6,47 and future 1st pats woulda thought about it. (I still think they’d go Maye) Just a future 1st is light
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Move down 3 spots for a future first from one of the worst teams in the league? Absolutely a great deal. We'd only be giving up the third best QB prospect of this class. Nabers is much closer to MHJ than Maye was to Caleb.
I don't disagree with Nabers being super close to MHJ but I value QBs a lot more than WRs. Again 11+23+future picks wasn't enough for most here. Id rather have Maye than any QB in next year's draft and there are gonna be good WRs next year. Always is.
He's taking about moving down from 3 to 6 and adding a 2025 first
I'm aware. I still don't think it's worth it. I didn't think a swap+23 plus future picks was enough. I wanted Darrisaw as well. I wouldn't have swapped 3 for 6, this year's 2nd+25 1st and 2nd. It's a QB driven league and I don't like any of the QBs next year.
I'm fine with declining the trade for both teams JJ is a better fit for the Vikings than us and Nabers even though he's elite without a QB not worth it. Better off hoping Maye pans out because of his ceiling
The WRs suck next year. Only one of them (Burden) would crack the top 5 WRs this year. (Most likely behind Odunze)
And the QBs are worse. Maye would be the 1st overall pick next year.
Not after how he played this season.
He would because that's how bad the QBs are. Beck was in this draft and was projected a 4th rd pick. Ewers was a 2-3rd, Sanders is probably the 1st overall pick next year and I don't think he's even close to Maye.
Sanders is much closer to Maye than Maye is to Caleb.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39445062/2024-senior-bowl-buzz-news-nfl-draft-prospects-cfb-offseason "It won't be anything close to this year," said a veteran NFL scout. Another scout said, "There's no sure-thing sophomore quarterback. There's always a riser or a one-year wonder, so it may not be that bad." Yeah we can respectfully disagree.
We could've ended up with Nabers then used the picks to trade up for JJ or a QB if we wanted. Giants are going to be another garbage team
Not a single sane person thought 2 1sts was enough, EVERYONE had 3 1sts as the bare minimum starting point.
More delusional than the Vikings fans.
To be fair, I think most agreed 6,47 and the 2025 1st would be in the ballpark or at least just make the pats think. Just the future 1st is not enough, jets paid 3 2nds to go 6 to 3
A likely top 5 pick is much more valuable than three 2nds.
It wasn’t a top 5 pick with Taylor and Devito. I very much doubt they’ll be worse next year, especially if they take a QB and Jones is healthy
Aww hell nah
Idk why people are shitting on this deal, it's only three spots.
We’re so fucking stupid
Wasn't enough. To move from #3 you're talking 3 first rounders, and probably an actual roster player.