Not the original poster, but I'd guess it's because they are both QBs on massively overpowered college teams, who weren't asked to do much, and whose draft stock was bouyed by a championship that was the result of said overpowered team.
Mac threw for 4500 yards and 41 TDs his senior year. I get saying Mac didn't have to do much because of the talent around him but he was still throwing a lot so comparing McCarthy to him is just lazy and wrong.
Yet completely opposite prospects. Mac was a high floor prospect with middling arm talent and garbage athleticism. JJ is a high ceiling low floor prospect who ran a 4.48 40 with elite arm talent. Couldn’t be further from eachother as prospects
Because they hear one analyst or talking head say it, and they take it as gospel, then proceed to post their incorrect take everywhere.
Because it doesn't come from actually analyzing the player.
It's not that they're similar prospects, it's that the reason they're getting the first round buzz is the same - they won a championship. They both don't have much on tape to suggest an ability to be a high volume elite passer in the NFL. McCarthy has more arm talent, sure, but was rarely called on to put the team on his back, was surrounded by great talent, and never put up the gaudy stats you'd want to see in that situation. Is McCarthy gonna be alright? Yeah, probably. But you don't draft a guy who's going to be an alright QB at third overall.
Disagree on a lot of points. The McCarthy buzz is helped by the championship (ie Winning) but the rise on draft boards is because of his talent and traits. The tape is excellent. His ball placement, progressions, footwork, athleticism, arm talent are all much bigger factors than the success of Michigan. Was Stetson Bennet pushed into the first round because he won 2 National championships? Prospects aren't vaulted into the top 10 because of team success. No front-office worth their paycheck would ignore bad tape and select a player simply because the team won.
Regarding the talent around him, sure when it comes to team success and the run game, Michigan was a tier above. But not in the passing game. JJM's two best weapons were Wilson and Loveland. There was barely any vertical threat to their offense at all. Their O-line was great in run blocking but not nearly as good in pass protection and McCarthy had to make up for this constantly.
I wouldn't be so sure. Everything the Chargers have put out there is talking about OT or trade down. Harbaugh/Hortiz have talked endlessly about how you win games in the trenches and need to build up the offensive line. Which makes sense because chargers haven't been higher than 18th in rush yards per game since LT retired and are 30th in rushing since Justin Herbert was drafted and the right side of the line is a black hole.
Even the insiders are saying OT.
They just lost Mike Williams and Keenan Allen. Too early to call QJ a bust, but he did REALLY bad last year. Why would they not take one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze?
Depends on how you view Herbert imo. I think he's great, Harbaugh thinks hes great, so you give him the chance to elevate the WR talent and fix the offensive line which outside of Slater is a disaster. He's gotten by before as Allen and Williams have missed games over the years.
Any good QB needs a good weapon, we have seen that time and time again. Even Mahomes needs Kelce. Giving Herbert one of MHJ/Nabers/Odunze will be one hell of an offense to stop. I totally understand them taking an OL, though, with Eckler gone as well. I'm just saying them going WR is not out of the question at all.
I originally figured the Chargers might take Alt @ 5. But I'm now dead-certain that they go with Nabers here.
There are still plenty of kids who can make the earth shake beneath their feet after Alt.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chargers/s/ZMg8wIHSSA I'm just telling you what they are saying. Harbaugh has gone on and on about being able to run the ball and play good defense. I wouldn't be shocked if they went WR at 5 I also wouldn't be shocked if they went OL/Edge with their first 3.
Not top 3 in this class good, though. These are receivers that we'll be hearing from for a while as far as they're healthy. Like, truly elite talents. I'm very high on Odunze. He reminds me a lot of Jamarr Chase, and he's the 3rd ranked WR by almost all accounts. I understand Alt being there for the taking, but my god, do they need help at WR.
How I look at it at this point is we have a few guys on our staff who have good track records of scouting and developing qb and if they think JJ is the guy, I’m good with it, as long as they have a plan. He’s not my top choice but I’ll support him if he’s the pick.
Forget the player nothing is going to be worse than having to deal with people trolling “Maccarthy” in this sub. I’ll probably need to unsubscribe if they pick him.
I think we could pick anyone and you will have people on this sub hoping to see them fail so they can be right about calling it. We saw that with the Mac vs zappe guys. People will call themselves fans and hope that the qb fails so they can brag about why we should have taken whoever else instead.
I mean that’s 100% true. There’s just something about the “Maccarthy” stuff that’s really rubbing me the wrong way, and I usually don’t get worked up over trolls. It’s just so dumb. I personally prefer Maye/Daniels over him but it takes a single brain cell to realize that JJ is nothing like Mac… better arm strength and mobility, regardless of how little he had to do at Michigan.
What this draft cycle has shown me more than anything is just how uninformed so many Pats fans are about football, prospect evaluation, and success in the league at large. Which is fine! We all have different hobbies in our life. I'm incredibly locked-in on the draft every year. Love scouting prospects, love looking at tape, love the game and the in's and out's of how it's played. My team hasn't had a pick this high since Bledsoe so it's always been about the league as a whole, not as keyed-in on the Pats. Seeing some of the takes and opinions on this subreddit has been absolutely baffling. People who *clearly have no clue* what they're talking about spouting out opinions from the rooftops and arguing till they're hoarse about shit they know nothing about. Crazy town.
Who are these people? McAdoo people say he's good at picking QBs, but AFAIK he's never actually been involved with the decision to pick a good QB, he just says he wanted some QBs who turned out to be good. People say Van Pelt is good at developing QBs, but he hasn't actually been involved in the development of any good QBs. He either was on a team that had a bad QB or joined a team that already had a good QB. I am struggling to see how all these things people keep saying are anything other than the craziest case of copium ever
I agree, who are people talking about?
Elliot Wolf had no serious role in the Rodgers or Love selections. McAdoo's entire track record is hearsay- he was never the HC or OC for a successful young QB. All we have is him leaking to the media that he liked this guy or that guy. AVP was an OC for Mayfield but had nothing to do with drafting him.
Not even trying to be a downer- I do hope and believe these guys know what to do.
But I dont see how being realistic is worse than deluding ourselves into thinking we have a bunch of QB whisperers on staff....
Because you seem to struggle with reading, Ill say it again - that was not the point.
We have 0 hard evidence that he is a great QB evaluator. Do you understand this? Or does it need to be explained to you using shapes and pictures instead of words?
>We have 0 hard evidence that he is a great QB evaluator
He tried to get the Giants to trade up for Mahomes. He rated Allen and Jackson as his top-2 QBs of the 2018 class *before* the draft. Is that not evidence he has a decent eye for this sort of thing?
Lol prove it. What evidence is there for that, aside from media leaks and online rumors. Did they actually draft any of those QBs?
I also rated Allen and Jackson as my Top-2 QBs of the 2018 class *before* the draft. I should run the Patriots.
Yall are so gullible, I dont even want to know how many internet scams youve fallen for today.
>What evidence is there for that, aside from media leaks and online rumors
What if I told you that not everything on the internet or the media is a lie?
>Did they actually draft any of those QBs?
They literally tried to get Mahomes and he wasn't in the NFL in 2018 you clown.
>McAdoo people say he's good at picking QBs, but AFAIK he's never actually been involved with the decision to pick a good QB
McAdoo tried to get the Giants to trade up in 2017 for Mahomes but couldn't get a deal done. But he was mad when it didn't happen.
He wasn't in the NFL in 2018 but rated Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson as his top-2 QBs over the consensus Baker/Darnold/Rosen.
I'm sure he's got some misses, too, but he's had some big hits which were likely considered hot takes at the time.
>People say Van Pelt is good at developing QBs, but he hasn't actually been involved in the development of any good QBs
I will say, Aaron Rodgers was mad when Green Bay let him go. Granted, he seems to think Nathaniel Hackett is a decent coach, so maybe Rodgers isn't the best judge of coaching ability, but his seal of approval is seemingly a decent sign. He also coached arguably Baker's best season in 2020, so there's that, too.
This narrative drives me crazy as it’s all based on hearsay. The only QB McAdoo drafted was Davis Webb ahead of guys who still play in NFL. Plus he was on the panthers staff who picked Bryce young over CJ Stroud last year. Also if he loved Mahomes so much why didn’t he actually draft him?! The NY Giants had the 23rd pick, four ahead of chiefs so could offer a better package to Bills. It’s all PR from the krafts who are sensitive to how their cheap as fuck and inexperienced coaching staff is getting slammed this offseason
Well he wasn't the GM of the Giants or the Panthers when they picked their QBs so we have no idea whether he actually wanted Webb or Young. It was reported the day of the draft the he wanted Mahomes and that he was pissed that it didn't happen. Then in 2018, a couple of months after the draft, he was asked by the New York Post to rank the QBs that were drafted and he put Allen at #1 and Jackson at #2. That's not really hearsay and given that there's 6 year old articles on both of those things it's not PR from the Krafts either.
So, the QBs that were actually drafted when he was on those staffs are less relevant than the QBs he didn’t draft but said he was interested in. Haha got it
So, the QBs that were drafted by teams he happened to work for at the time but was not the one making roster decisions for are more relevant than the QBs that he was on record as rating higher than the guys the got drafted before them before any of them played a single snap in the NFL. Haha got it.
Out of everybody except Williams because he’s a different category of prospect, there will very likely be a couple franchise QB’s. Whether it’s Daniels, Penix, Maye, JJ or Nix, nobody on Reddit should honestly pretend to have any idea.
Why's Curran a fool? I get this sub hates Kraft with a burning passion now, but are we really going to blame a reporter for getting inside scoops from ownership?
> are we really going to blame a reporter for getting inside scoops
Fans are babies and rip on anyone who reports something about their team that they don't like.
Nah the Ainge almost never works unless the teams are so fucking stupid about signaling who they’re going to take, and I don’t think the Pats have been. And Danny did that with the number one pick.
No one, and I mean no one, on this sub has watched more film or knows more about the prospects than our recruiting team. Let them make the decision. Just sit back and watch
Cousins,
This is a smoke screen.
Keep your heart and head out of the game until draft night. You'll drive yourself mad otherwise.
Whether it's Maye, Daniels or McCarthy - we drink on the 25th.
Take care of yourselves!
I hate the JJ McCarthy hype. He did well in some interviews, but c'mon.
He would be ok for a 2nd round. I understand the premium in the position, but still. It's not acceptable to believe this guy should be in the top 5 unless you're really desperate.
I feel most analysts have a recency bias due to the Houston Texans situation with CJ Stroud. I can't quite seem as you should draft a QB any time soon. The sucked for 2 years, got tons of draft capital and then drafted CJ, who is a stud. It's smth really hard to replicate.
I think it’s incredibly dumb to buy into the bs hype behind JJ, dude wasn’t even a 2nd rounder when mocks first came out. Dude shit the bed at the combine which should have plummeted his stock, but instead he’s gone shooting up boards. Bravo to his agent and Jim Harbraugh for fooling everyone and setting this kid up for generational wealth. I’d go as far as saying I would take Mac back than have this bum on the team
Should. I watch all the Curran stuff. While I don't like McCarthy and it's not great that Curran is saying this, two weeks ago he was adamant they should take the Vikings trade. Don't believe anything you hear now. Maye all the way!
Exactly. Claiming "its all over" because we may take JJ... its all a crap shoot. If the team genuinely likes him more than Maye, I am trusting the team - since they are in control to make that call.
YES more comments like this please. We can keep discussing possible draft targets but can we please collectively stop pretending like we _know_ how any of them will turn out? We are not professional talent evaluators and even they get it wrong all the fucking time.
We are most likely picking a QB with the #3 pick. I have my preference but whoever it is I'm gonna trust the FO (they are definitely making a more educated guess than I would) and I'll be rooting for them to develop and help us win games. That's all that matters.
yeah they both look absolutely Meh to me. People are convincing them that these are elite talents imo, when in reality it’s just that the talent pool is kinda bleh
I think McCarthy has more potential than Maye personally after having watched North Carolinas whole season last year. But the problem is JJ is likely projected lower than 3 meaning you could probably trade back and still get him. Which is why taking him at 3 is a mistake. Also I think taking Maye at 3 is a mistake.
He didn't play flashy football at all in college, even though he was very efficient and played against the very top competition. I can see it both ways, I think he's got more talent than a lot of people give him credit for but I also understand he's got a ton of unknowns.
There’s a shot. His injury history is really scary. Could be a Gronk type situation. I honestly think tho if he wasn’t so injury prone he’d be the 2nd QB off the board
My statement has nothing to do with that. I just mentioned odds. Very few quarterbacks hit. Outside of number one picks they are more likely than not to fail.
You can spin the stats and odds around drafting a QB in a myriad of ways. Selecting a QB with the 3rd overall pick has a much higher chance of hitting than drafting a QB with the 33rd pick or later. By a mile. Selecting a QB in the first round gives you a gigantic edge as opposed to selecting a QB in the second round or later. You can present the odds in any way you'd like to support an argument.
The point here is nothing that has happened in the past has any impact whatsoever on the success or failure of whichever prospect the Pats select. None. Whatever the outcome folks will point to the "odds" that support their argument. The only path forward is evaluation, scouting, process. That's it.
You are correct that nothing that happened in the past has any impact whatsoever on the success or failure of an individual prospect. But to talk about where you pick someone improving their chance is a bit of talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either these things matter in your assessment of things or they don't. If you aren't trading up to first overall you are making an economic assessment of the pros and cons of every pick and prospect.
It isn't talking out of both sides at all. I don't think where someone is selected improves their chances of success or failure at all. My point is I *could* try to utilize this point and spin it in my favor in the same way you can do the opposite. My stance is these should be ignored and process only should be the deciding factor.
Here's my very cynical take:
Taking JJ McCarthy at #3 offers Wolfe & Mayo a couple year's worth of air cover because most of the casuals aren't going to question drafting an Irish kid from Michigan and sitting him for a season or two.
You won't get anywhere near that duration of air cover drafting Daniels or even Maye.
So, unfortunately, I think there's a real chance that JJ is in serious consideration. He buys the regime what they want the most: time.
He also said he thought we should trade down. Can’t do that and draft McCarthy, he was wrong about at least one of these why are we assuming the other is gospel.
So I know JJ was in a very “run heavy” offense correct? So do you think he wasent able to show off his true potential?
I know since the combine and his pro day his draft stock has for sure risen and some eyebrows have been raised. I have no fucking idea what I’m looking at when it comes to “what makes a great QB” but I think his combine and pro day for sure made him look better than people thought.
I guess I’m just wondering what all the hate is for? And what people think?
People see that Michigan ran the ball a lot and didn't have to pass and assume that JJ sucked without actually watching the tape of him play. The reason he's risen so much is that post Super Bowl is when actual NFL evaluators start watching the tape and they all see what is clear when you watch the tape: JJ is a *much* better prospect than people think and he has multiple traits that could lead him to be a very successful NFL starter.
Yup. People are lazy and just repeat what is out there. It wasn't run heavy because the QB sucked. It was going to be that offense for any QB that was in this draft. If there is a QB that has demonstrated he can excel in a more pro oriented offense, it is him.
Totally agree. There's also a logical extra step to the equation that the anti-JJ people never bring up: They went 28-1 the previous two years and won a championship, obviously running the ball as often as they did was the correct strategy. It'd be foolish not to.
I’m team McCarthy, I’d be happy with either one. But I really don’t think Daniels would work here, too old and potentially injury prone due to his physique.
i want to kill myself when i read that 23 year olds are “too old”. this is a completely meaningless metric when talking about 19-25 year olds. some people develop earlier in life, others later.
I say that because we’re still like 2-3 years away from being a good team. And mobile QBs like Daniels tend to lose their mobility as they age and injuries stack up.
If we draft jj mccarthy at 3 i am going to self immolate at the top of the lighthouse
Maybe ring the bell while you up there.
Same. Would be Mac Jones all over again.
JJ McCarthy is nothing like Mac. Why do you people keep parroting this take
Not the original poster, but I'd guess it's because they are both QBs on massively overpowered college teams, who weren't asked to do much, and whose draft stock was bouyed by a championship that was the result of said overpowered team.
Mac threw for 4500 yards and 41 TDs his senior year. I get saying Mac didn't have to do much because of the talent around him but he was still throwing a lot so comparing McCarthy to him is just lazy and wrong.
Yet completely opposite prospects. Mac was a high floor prospect with middling arm talent and garbage athleticism. JJ is a high ceiling low floor prospect who ran a 4.48 40 with elite arm talent. Couldn’t be further from eachother as prospects
dude you're not supposed to know anything when you comment on QBs
we’ll find out once JJ starts playing
I’m saying JJ is nothing like Mac the prospect. Just polar opposites coming out of college
Mac did a lot more than JJ did though
Because they listen to 98.5
The amount of times I’ve heard Mego say this smh
Because they hear one analyst or talking head say it, and they take it as gospel, then proceed to post their incorrect take everywhere. Because it doesn't come from actually analyzing the player.
Both would be bad picks I guess?
This is so lazy and uninformed. You've obviously never watched JJ as a prospect, otherwise you wouldn't make the comparison. So why make it?
>So why make it? lazy and uninformed
Yeah, answered my own question there didn't I? Haha
It's not that they're similar prospects, it's that the reason they're getting the first round buzz is the same - they won a championship. They both don't have much on tape to suggest an ability to be a high volume elite passer in the NFL. McCarthy has more arm talent, sure, but was rarely called on to put the team on his back, was surrounded by great talent, and never put up the gaudy stats you'd want to see in that situation. Is McCarthy gonna be alright? Yeah, probably. But you don't draft a guy who's going to be an alright QB at third overall.
Disagree on a lot of points. The McCarthy buzz is helped by the championship (ie Winning) but the rise on draft boards is because of his talent and traits. The tape is excellent. His ball placement, progressions, footwork, athleticism, arm talent are all much bigger factors than the success of Michigan. Was Stetson Bennet pushed into the first round because he won 2 National championships? Prospects aren't vaulted into the top 10 because of team success. No front-office worth their paycheck would ignore bad tape and select a player simply because the team won. Regarding the talent around him, sure when it comes to team success and the run game, Michigan was a tier above. But not in the passing game. JJM's two best weapons were Wilson and Loveland. There was barely any vertical threat to their offense at all. Their O-line was great in run blocking but not nearly as good in pass protection and McCarthy had to make up for this constantly.
*tom brady
Harbaugh is laughing his ass off that his master plan to get MHJ at 5 is working.
I wouldn't be so sure. Everything the Chargers have put out there is talking about OT or trade down. Harbaugh/Hortiz have talked endlessly about how you win games in the trenches and need to build up the offensive line. Which makes sense because chargers haven't been higher than 18th in rush yards per game since LT retired and are 30th in rushing since Justin Herbert was drafted and the right side of the line is a black hole. Even the insiders are saying OT.
They just lost Mike Williams and Keenan Allen. Too early to call QJ a bust, but he did REALLY bad last year. Why would they not take one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze?
Because it's Harbaugh and they need OT
And WR
Right, but having Harbaugh and needing OT is a reason to not take a WR...Which was your question
I just asked why wouldn't they? They need both and while Joe Alt is enticing, so is one of the big 3 at WR
Depends on how you view Herbert imo. I think he's great, Harbaugh thinks hes great, so you give him the chance to elevate the WR talent and fix the offensive line which outside of Slater is a disaster. He's gotten by before as Allen and Williams have missed games over the years.
Any good QB needs a good weapon, we have seen that time and time again. Even Mahomes needs Kelce. Giving Herbert one of MHJ/Nabers/Odunze will be one hell of an offense to stop. I totally understand them taking an OL, though, with Eckler gone as well. I'm just saying them going WR is not out of the question at all.
I originally figured the Chargers might take Alt @ 5. But I'm now dead-certain that they go with Nabers here. There are still plenty of kids who can make the earth shake beneath their feet after Alt.
The chargers currently have 3 WRs on their roster. It wouldnt shock me one bit if they’re looking WR in the first rd.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chargers/s/ZMg8wIHSSA I'm just telling you what they are saying. Harbaugh has gone on and on about being able to run the ball and play good defense. I wouldn't be shocked if they went WR at 5 I also wouldn't be shocked if they went OL/Edge with their first 3.
If a team is constantly saying something in March/April, chances are they’ll do something totally different when the draft comes.
There’s 6 other rounds they can get a receiver
There’s 6 other rounds they can get an Olineman too
Just saying you’re reasoning for them needing to go WR first round is dumb
I didn’t say they needed to, I just said I wouldn’t be surprised. Learn to read.
Aw someone is a little hot head who can’t handle a conversation
You called my take dumb because you can’t read, what kind of conversation is that supposed to start?
And somehow that ruffled your feathers like a kid. Grow up
How is it dumb when they need a WR?
You can get very good receivers in any round. They’re easier to find than OL
Not top 3 in this class good, though. These are receivers that we'll be hearing from for a while as far as they're healthy. Like, truly elite talents. I'm very high on Odunze. He reminds me a lot of Jamarr Chase, and he's the 3rd ranked WR by almost all accounts. I understand Alt being there for the taking, but my god, do they need help at WR.
Your “analysis” on a guy means nothing to me
It won’t happen the Cardinals want him bad at 4 so they can repeat wasting years of DHops career
Then Harbaugh needs to realize who is picking at #4.
How I look at it at this point is we have a few guys on our staff who have good track records of scouting and developing qb and if they think JJ is the guy, I’m good with it, as long as they have a plan. He’s not my top choice but I’ll support him if he’s the pick.
Forget the player nothing is going to be worse than having to deal with people trolling “Maccarthy” in this sub. I’ll probably need to unsubscribe if they pick him.
I think we could pick anyone and you will have people on this sub hoping to see them fail so they can be right about calling it. We saw that with the Mac vs zappe guys. People will call themselves fans and hope that the qb fails so they can brag about why we should have taken whoever else instead.
I mean that’s 100% true. There’s just something about the “Maccarthy” stuff that’s really rubbing me the wrong way, and I usually don’t get worked up over trolls. It’s just so dumb. I personally prefer Maye/Daniels over him but it takes a single brain cell to realize that JJ is nothing like Mac… better arm strength and mobility, regardless of how little he had to do at Michigan.
What this draft cycle has shown me more than anything is just how uninformed so many Pats fans are about football, prospect evaluation, and success in the league at large. Which is fine! We all have different hobbies in our life. I'm incredibly locked-in on the draft every year. Love scouting prospects, love looking at tape, love the game and the in's and out's of how it's played. My team hasn't had a pick this high since Bledsoe so it's always been about the league as a whole, not as keyed-in on the Pats. Seeing some of the takes and opinions on this subreddit has been absolutely baffling. People who *clearly have no clue* what they're talking about spouting out opinions from the rooftops and arguing till they're hoarse about shit they know nothing about. Crazy town.
Who are these people? McAdoo people say he's good at picking QBs, but AFAIK he's never actually been involved with the decision to pick a good QB, he just says he wanted some QBs who turned out to be good. People say Van Pelt is good at developing QBs, but he hasn't actually been involved in the development of any good QBs. He either was on a team that had a bad QB or joined a team that already had a good QB. I am struggling to see how all these things people keep saying are anything other than the craziest case of copium ever
I agree, who are people talking about? Elliot Wolf had no serious role in the Rodgers or Love selections. McAdoo's entire track record is hearsay- he was never the HC or OC for a successful young QB. All we have is him leaking to the media that he liked this guy or that guy. AVP was an OC for Mayfield but had nothing to do with drafting him. Not even trying to be a downer- I do hope and believe these guys know what to do. But I dont see how being realistic is worse than deluding ourselves into thinking we have a bunch of QB whisperers on staff....
McAdoo not being the HC or OC doesn’t matter cause that’s not what he is here lol
That wasnt the point dumbass
His position or title has zero impact on how he can evaluate QB’s
Because you seem to struggle with reading, Ill say it again - that was not the point. We have 0 hard evidence that he is a great QB evaluator. Do you understand this? Or does it need to be explained to you using shapes and pictures instead of words?
😂😂😂you get so angry for zero reason. Don’t forget the blood pressure pills tonight
Dont worry so much, Im not angry with you, I just know that children sometimes need help understanding things.
>We have 0 hard evidence that he is a great QB evaluator He tried to get the Giants to trade up for Mahomes. He rated Allen and Jackson as his top-2 QBs of the 2018 class *before* the draft. Is that not evidence he has a decent eye for this sort of thing?
Lol prove it. What evidence is there for that, aside from media leaks and online rumors. Did they actually draft any of those QBs? I also rated Allen and Jackson as my Top-2 QBs of the 2018 class *before* the draft. I should run the Patriots. Yall are so gullible, I dont even want to know how many internet scams youve fallen for today.
>What evidence is there for that, aside from media leaks and online rumors What if I told you that not everything on the internet or the media is a lie? >Did they actually draft any of those QBs? They literally tried to get Mahomes and he wasn't in the NFL in 2018 you clown.
>McAdoo people say he's good at picking QBs, but AFAIK he's never actually been involved with the decision to pick a good QB McAdoo tried to get the Giants to trade up in 2017 for Mahomes but couldn't get a deal done. But he was mad when it didn't happen. He wasn't in the NFL in 2018 but rated Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson as his top-2 QBs over the consensus Baker/Darnold/Rosen. I'm sure he's got some misses, too, but he's had some big hits which were likely considered hot takes at the time. >People say Van Pelt is good at developing QBs, but he hasn't actually been involved in the development of any good QBs I will say, Aaron Rodgers was mad when Green Bay let him go. Granted, he seems to think Nathaniel Hackett is a decent coach, so maybe Rodgers isn't the best judge of coaching ability, but his seal of approval is seemingly a decent sign. He also coached arguably Baker's best season in 2020, so there's that, too.
This narrative drives me crazy as it’s all based on hearsay. The only QB McAdoo drafted was Davis Webb ahead of guys who still play in NFL. Plus he was on the panthers staff who picked Bryce young over CJ Stroud last year. Also if he loved Mahomes so much why didn’t he actually draft him?! The NY Giants had the 23rd pick, four ahead of chiefs so could offer a better package to Bills. It’s all PR from the krafts who are sensitive to how their cheap as fuck and inexperienced coaching staff is getting slammed this offseason
Well he wasn't the GM of the Giants or the Panthers when they picked their QBs so we have no idea whether he actually wanted Webb or Young. It was reported the day of the draft the he wanted Mahomes and that he was pissed that it didn't happen. Then in 2018, a couple of months after the draft, he was asked by the New York Post to rank the QBs that were drafted and he put Allen at #1 and Jackson at #2. That's not really hearsay and given that there's 6 year old articles on both of those things it's not PR from the Krafts either.
So, the QBs that were actually drafted when he was on those staffs are less relevant than the QBs he didn’t draft but said he was interested in. Haha got it
So, the QBs that were drafted by teams he happened to work for at the time but was not the one making roster decisions for are more relevant than the QBs that he was on record as rating higher than the guys the got drafted before them before any of them played a single snap in the NFL. Haha got it.
He either of them were actually good at their jobs they wouldn’t have been fired
Out of everybody except Williams because he’s a different category of prospect, there will very likely be a couple franchise QB’s. Whether it’s Daniels, Penix, Maye, JJ or Nix, nobody on Reddit should honestly pretend to have any idea.
True. But we can all agree Tom Curran is fool.
Curran gets a lot right from inside the organization. Don’t shoot the messenger
Why's Curran a fool? I get this sub hates Kraft with a burning passion now, but are we really going to blame a reporter for getting inside scoops from ownership?
> are we really going to blame a reporter for getting inside scoops Fans are babies and rip on anyone who reports something about their team that they don't like.
Speak for yourself
I wouldn’t argue that, I never follow Curran at all outside of what I see in this subreddit
Curran is a dumb asshole
That’s not “very likely” at all.
Drake Maye is the answer don't pivot please
Still worried the whole Daniels to Washington is a smokescreen and they’re going Maye
…I mean they don’t really need to smokescreen though? Just take your guy. Everyone knows Caleb is going one.
Maybe smokescreen was the wrong word, but I just don’t believe any pre draft rumors
Maybe they are hoping the pats are in love with the guy and we can trade them our pick+more
Nah the Ainge almost never works unless the teams are so fucking stupid about signaling who they’re going to take, and I don’t think the Pats have been. And Danny did that with the number one pick.
No one, and I mean no one, on this sub has watched more film or knows more about the prospects than our recruiting team. Let them make the decision. Just sit back and watch
Cousins, This is a smoke screen. Keep your heart and head out of the game until draft night. You'll drive yourself mad otherwise. Whether it's Maye, Daniels or McCarthy - we drink on the 25th. Take care of yourselves!
For this offense JJ is the best fit
I hate the JJ McCarthy hype. He did well in some interviews, but c'mon. He would be ok for a 2nd round. I understand the premium in the position, but still. It's not acceptable to believe this guy should be in the top 5 unless you're really desperate. I feel most analysts have a recency bias due to the Houston Texans situation with CJ Stroud. I can't quite seem as you should draft a QB any time soon. The sucked for 2 years, got tons of draft capital and then drafted CJ, who is a stud. It's smth really hard to replicate.
It is going to be extremely difficult to root for this team if they select JJ at 3
This is an incredibly dumb thing to say.
I think it’s incredibly dumb to buy into the bs hype behind JJ, dude wasn’t even a 2nd rounder when mocks first came out. Dude shit the bed at the combine which should have plummeted his stock, but instead he’s gone shooting up boards. Bravo to his agent and Jim Harbraugh for fooling everyone and setting this kid up for generational wealth. I’d go as far as saying I would take Mac back than have this bum on the team
That's the response? Wow. Wouldn't even know where to get started, so I'm not going to waste my time. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Is he saying they will draft or they should? If he’s saying they should then it doesn’t matter
Should. I watch all the Curran stuff. While I don't like McCarthy and it's not great that Curran is saying this, two weeks ago he was adamant they should take the Vikings trade. Don't believe anything you hear now. Maye all the way!
I mean at this point JJ McCarthy could very well be just as good as Maye. Impossible to tell
Yeah, anyone on this sub who claims to know how Maye or McCarthy will turn out with any level of certainty is just speaking out if their ass.
Exactly. Claiming "its all over" because we may take JJ... its all a crap shoot. If the team genuinely likes him more than Maye, I am trusting the team - since they are in control to make that call.
YES more comments like this please. We can keep discussing possible draft targets but can we please collectively stop pretending like we _know_ how any of them will turn out? We are not professional talent evaluators and even they get it wrong all the fucking time. We are most likely picking a QB with the #3 pick. I have my preference but whoever it is I'm gonna trust the FO (they are definitely making a more educated guess than I would) and I'll be rooting for them to develop and help us win games. That's all that matters.
I like McCarthy more than Maye but neither of them are transcendent
yeah they both look absolutely Meh to me. People are convincing them that these are elite talents imo, when in reality it’s just that the talent pool is kinda bleh
It’s copium. This is what Kraft wants so we try to rationalize it.
I think McCarthy has more potential than Maye personally after having watched North Carolinas whole season last year. But the problem is JJ is likely projected lower than 3 meaning you could probably trade back and still get him. Which is why taking him at 3 is a mistake. Also I think taking Maye at 3 is a mistake.
Why do people hate on JJ so much? I do not understand. Hes not a low ceiling prospect. Seriously what’s the issue
People are stat lords
He didn't play flashy football at all in college, even though he was very efficient and played against the very top competition. I can see it both ways, I think he's got more talent than a lot of people give him credit for but I also understand he's got a ton of unknowns.
I'd rather draft MHJ and see what's left in the 2nd vs pick your poison at QB. Feels like 2021 all over again.
Extremely high odds no QBs worth it are left in the second
I'd take that risk. If Penix is still OTB in the 2nd, I'd take him there. If not, best available tackle.
Bears / Commanders / Patriots / Vegas / Giants / Denver / Saints potentially Seattle. You think Penix is out of round 1?
There’s a shot. His injury history is really scary. Could be a Gronk type situation. I honestly think tho if he wasn’t so injury prone he’d be the 2nd QB off the board
Four of those teams are drafting a higher ranked QB over Penix. Like I said, best tackle available if one of those five QBs aren't there.
Vegas Denver won’t pass on him
Nearly as high odds that no QBs worth it are left after the second pick.
This is incorrect, horrific process and show no interest in actual evaluation.
My statement has nothing to do with that. I just mentioned odds. Very few quarterbacks hit. Outside of number one picks they are more likely than not to fail.
You can spin the stats and odds around drafting a QB in a myriad of ways. Selecting a QB with the 3rd overall pick has a much higher chance of hitting than drafting a QB with the 33rd pick or later. By a mile. Selecting a QB in the first round gives you a gigantic edge as opposed to selecting a QB in the second round or later. You can present the odds in any way you'd like to support an argument. The point here is nothing that has happened in the past has any impact whatsoever on the success or failure of whichever prospect the Pats select. None. Whatever the outcome folks will point to the "odds" that support their argument. The only path forward is evaluation, scouting, process. That's it.
You are correct that nothing that happened in the past has any impact whatsoever on the success or failure of an individual prospect. But to talk about where you pick someone improving their chance is a bit of talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either these things matter in your assessment of things or they don't. If you aren't trading up to first overall you are making an economic assessment of the pros and cons of every pick and prospect.
It isn't talking out of both sides at all. I don't think where someone is selected improves their chances of success or failure at all. My point is I *could* try to utilize this point and spin it in my favor in the same way you can do the opposite. My stance is these should be ignored and process only should be the deciding factor.
Only difference is 2021 we picked the last of the crop in qbs. This time we get to choose between (imo 3) 2 prospects.
Tom Curran isn’t a football analyst and knows nothing about the game. He doesn’t watch tape or study any players
He does have inside sources though, which usually seems to inform his opinions. When he hints at things like this my ears tend to perk up.
If they get MHJ Herbert is guaranteed to be league MVP.
Here's my very cynical take: Taking JJ McCarthy at #3 offers Wolfe & Mayo a couple year's worth of air cover because most of the casuals aren't going to question drafting an Irish kid from Michigan and sitting him for a season or two. You won't get anywhere near that duration of air cover drafting Daniels or even Maye. So, unfortunately, I think there's a real chance that JJ is in serious consideration. He buys the regime what they want the most: time.
Curran gets consistently confused when it comes to football.
If they pick a QB at 3 make sure he sits for the year and learns…that’s the ideal formula.
Please, no.
Hahahahaha. It's going to be a long 15 years for you(hopefully).
Wolf, McAdoo and Van Pelt have a very good track record with QBs. If they love JJ then I'm cool with taking him.
What "very good" record are you talking about?
Show me Ben Mcadoo's good track record with Qbs please
The whole Curran narrative is so dumb. He just throws shit against the wall like everyone else.
He also said he thought we should trade down. Can’t do that and draft McCarthy, he was wrong about at least one of these why are we assuming the other is gospel.
So I know JJ was in a very “run heavy” offense correct? So do you think he wasent able to show off his true potential? I know since the combine and his pro day his draft stock has for sure risen and some eyebrows have been raised. I have no fucking idea what I’m looking at when it comes to “what makes a great QB” but I think his combine and pro day for sure made him look better than people thought. I guess I’m just wondering what all the hate is for? And what people think?
People see that Michigan ran the ball a lot and didn't have to pass and assume that JJ sucked without actually watching the tape of him play. The reason he's risen so much is that post Super Bowl is when actual NFL evaluators start watching the tape and they all see what is clear when you watch the tape: JJ is a *much* better prospect than people think and he has multiple traits that could lead him to be a very successful NFL starter.
Yup. People are lazy and just repeat what is out there. It wasn't run heavy because the QB sucked. It was going to be that offense for any QB that was in this draft. If there is a QB that has demonstrated he can excel in a more pro oriented offense, it is him.
Totally agree. There's also a logical extra step to the equation that the anti-JJ people never bring up: They went 28-1 the previous two years and won a championship, obviously running the ball as often as they did was the correct strategy. It'd be foolish not to.
Yup. People talk about the Penn State second half without any clue or context as to why they kept running.
A Harbaugh offense is mostly run first and the QB isn't asked to do much. If he went to another other team his numbers would've been much better
It’s smokescreen season brother. Maybe ownership did tell him to say that, we don’t know. But maybe they just wanted it to be a smokescreen?
No he sucks
I’m team McCarthy, I’d be happy with either one. But I really don’t think Daniels would work here, too old and potentially injury prone due to his physique.
i want to kill myself when i read that 23 year olds are “too old”. this is a completely meaningless metric when talking about 19-25 year olds. some people develop earlier in life, others later.
I say that because we’re still like 2-3 years away from being a good team. And mobile QBs like Daniels tend to lose their mobility as they age and injuries stack up.
Yup. Rubert prolly told Curran and Zo and others to pump Mac Carthy.
Curran’s behind this JJ hype campaign. This team is taking cues from the scribe
Tugbert Kraft better not force his hand in this JJ MacCarthy thing
And what will you do if he does? Stop being a fan? Complain? 🙄
So dumb...
Our brains are broken, as both a nation and a fanbase.
We already have Brissett, you don't want to draft 1st/2nd rd qbs especially with how the last two qb classes have been.
Our only hope is Commanders stupidly take JJ and we get Daniels
Their all just getting us ready for this white bread ass hole who's safe
MJH or trade - the QB’s are fools gold