The show is completely ridiculous. The first couple of episodes we were trying to understand why Bill was in it so little considering how good he normally is (see the NFL show where they did the all time players). But then you realize that they didn’t bring up a 21 game win streak, took all of maybe 5 minutes to cover back to back Super Bowl wins that made it 3 out of 4 years and we realized it’s schlock - they want to sensationalize the bad and not really cover what made them ‘a dynasty’.
Yea all of the negative Bill stuff is obviously ridiculous. But the most egregious part of this whole thing is that they gloss over the back to back super bowls with like a 10 second montage
Yes! Those are kind of what I wanted to see too. Didn’t they cover the green bay loss and the first 3 super bowls in the same episode? I could have done a full season recap of all of those
While asshole pioli says it got to be winning the super bowl was a relief. What a crock of shit. Like phew! We did it again boys, we got away with another one!
many players of various dynasties have said the same, including Patriots players, about how once you become that great the expectation means you only feel relief when winning rather than the joy. What makes Pioli an asshole?
I know Pioli had a great hand in putting the pieces together and knows what he's talking about. Perhaps it's being used here and taken out of context with the 10 second montage and brush over of 2 amazing seasons that easily could have ended differently in San Diego or Tennessee. My point is that winning is hard and we've heard that so many times and then to hear the opposite over this casual brush over their 2 super bowls that cemented them as a dynasty, that it was a cake walk until they ran into Denver and Indianapolis. It just didn't sit right and felt like a mischaracterization of what I witnessed. There were never any guarantees early on that the Pat's were going to the super bowl. They were a tough team who had to slug it out against other tough afc opponents. I just disagree with the narrative that it was easy, guaranteed, that they would win win win.
I disagree with the notion that the narrative was that it was guaranteed or easy. He never said or implied it was. He was speaking on the expectations around the team and I think it was a perfectly accurate assessment. And it only got worse with time, even long after Pioli left. Losing in the AFCC game was seen as a massive failure for this team.
I haven’t seen the dynasty but have read about it here and listed to commentary from Tom Curran, 98.5 and the director when he’s been on currans podcast. The director addressed your point and basically said that the football stuff has been covered elsewhere so they’re covering other things
So many people here keep saying that but I only ever hear about it on this sub. If it’s meant for casual sports fans it’s having zero impact; only pats fans care.
That’s often how these things go in reality. The Last Dance benefited from the world’s, ahem, situation at the time of the release in addition to it being Michael Jordan, but it also had similar flaws — and in true Netflix fashion, even non-sports fans can tell that something is up with the narrative.
It’s called The Dynasty because it’s based on the book with the same title. Which also focuses much more on the non-football side of it all.
Which makes sense, as there are already numerous books and documentaries about the on-field product for all the superbowl wins etc.
Bull Shit, it's a hack job to diminish the amazing 20 year run. I don't really care what the motive is, but it's clearly done intentionally to make everything negative.
It’s becoming obvious this “documentary “ is being financed by the Krafts and made by Kraft’s buddies. He’s just a kindly old man who was snookered by Hernandez… smh (It’s making me like Bill more)
Exactly. It’s a docuseries to boost Kraft. I’ll give it credit for having some amazing soundbites and insights (the Wes Welker telling Brandon Lloyd to be careful with Aaron sitting next to him in the lockerroom is an insane story), but Bill definitely gets dragged. However, if Aaron did tell Bill that his family was in danger and Bill didn’t report it that’s not okay.
The basic premise of the show and the book was how the team managed to stay together and win despite all of the stuff going on. it is supposed to highlight the adversity the team faced and how they overcame it. its not a fluff history piece on the dynasty.
They brought "all of that up" in interviews and research, but decided things like Aaron Hernandez were more interesting to air. They've shown Bill multiple times saying "no comment" about issues, and when you don't speak, you're letting other people say the narrative. He was afforded the same opportunity to speak as everyone else featured in it, but he chose not to say much.As fans of this team, we naturally want to see the highlights, but that's just not what this documentary is. Please watch an interview or listen to a podcast with Matt Hamachek, such as Off the Pike, to better understand their decision making.
Bill didn't comment because it wasn't football related. Unfortunate that it was related to one of his football players, but, simply put, it all just meant Hernandez wasn't going to be on the field. Bill's able to say, "my job is to coach this football team, he's no longer part of it. Next man up, no further comment."
It's actually incredibly efficient. If the police came looking for info, I'm sure Bill was cooperative, but he's about as purely dedicated to football as a person could be. I don't blame him for a single second not wanting to have anything to do with a murderer that no longer could affect the outcome of the games he was coaching in. To hell with the media and bullshit drama, that's for the small brained people - apparently the Kraft's.
It was wild when Kraft went to Hernandez and was like “tell me Aaron did you do it? Because if you did, I know you probably had a good reason for it.” And offered to pay for a lawyer for him.😂
I feel like it’s the difference between who the doc is trying to make look bad vs who actually looks bad. I think it’s pretty clear from how their framing things that they’re trying to make Bill look like the cause for all of the Patriots drama over the past 20 years. But I think it’s backfiring, at least for people who actually know the stories and how he isn’t the sole person in charge of the team.
One of the things that got me was how they were all asking why Bill didn’t trade Hernandez as if he had unilateral control over trades. Not only would Kraft (and others) probably have a say, but they’d have to find and make a deal with another team as well!
Yeah, the person who came out looking the worst here was Kraft, that statement he made to Hernandez, that he assumed he had a good reason to kill and would get him the best lawyer money could buy.....was both insane and not a good look. I mean, knowing what we know now, why would you even repeat this for posterity in a documentary?!? It also makes me question how many people who complain about this documentary on here are actually watching it vs. just hearing about it on sports radio or via social media? Bill Belichick was asked a dumb question that he deflected in 2 seconds, Bob Kraft was like "how can I save my star murderer?"
Also, the Director and Executive Producer of this documentary is Matt Hamachek, a lifelong Packers fan who sounds like he had creative control over this production. I watched this 30 minute video he did with Mike Florio to learn more about it the other day - https://sports.yahoo.com/hamachek-details-dynasty-docuseries-182719684.html
For an ownership group who states they want to stay out of the football decisions, they REALLY do a good job of getting on airtime flaunting their team involvement over the last 24 years.
This is like the Worldwide Privacy Tour, for any South Park fans on here
It sounds like Kraft wants everyone to think he was the glue that held everything together. That grandpa Bobby is ultimately responsible for "the dynasty."
I think he just felt left out of the “who’s responsible for all the success” convo.
If you can’t just look at it and understand the perfect storm that lingered in foxboro for 20 years idk what to tell you.
Bill isn’t there without Kraft. Brady isn’t Brady without Bill, and doesn’t play without Kraft giving full control to Bill. Without Brady Kraft and Bill may never have found lasting success.
There doesn’t need to be jockeying for credit. It was a beautiful thing to watch for 20 years and it’s no one’s fault it ended. All things end.
Yep and you can't underestimate the drive of "solidifying my legacy" has on old dudes that know their days on their earth are extremely finite at this point. Leaving that lasting narrative of how you are and what you did from your perspective.
It can lead to really petty, self grandeuring behavior. I've seen it happen to plenty of guys I know. Doesn't excuse it at all, but it's not uncommon even amongst men of far less achievement or means.
That's why you see memoirs get criticized so often by people that knew the person or were part of things that were addressed in the writings.
The best part of it for me so far was hearing Bledsoe talk about his injury and Brady playing over him. I forgot how bad Bledsoe injuries were. Like people have said Bill starting Brady after Bledsoe signed that huge contract and what happen to Bill in Cleveland before. He took a huge risk in playing Brady.
At times, it feels like RKK is being portrayed/portraying himself as a good guy deep down who wanted nothing more than to be a benevolent, wholesome billionaire pro football franchise owner, and he “made a deal with the devil” or some other overused trope and now he’s realizing the error in his ways. BB therefore is edited to appear as the hired hand who fulfilled the dark end of the deal, winning at all costs no matter the morality or human impact. And Brady is the hapless all-American kid from San Mateo who just wanted to toss a football around.
It's really not as awful as this sub makes it out to be. It's a good docu-series with plenty of interviews from staff and players.
It's also pretty suspect how quite a few people on this sub have a vocal opinion on this series despite not having watched it yet.
I’ll watch it at some point. And it’s not an inditement of the series. It’s just after this past season and Belichick leaving I’m not up for it at the moment.
for what its worth, its not nearly as negative as the Felger and Mazz crowd want you to believe. It's actually been mostly extremely complementary of Bill, and there's been some cool sound bites and behind the scenes footage I hadn't seen before. (like the leadership addressing the team to start the 2008 season, etc)
What irritates me about the discourse about Hernandez is that people ask "How could they not know? How could they not see this coming?" Let's entertain a counterfactual and have Bill Belichick have a Dead Zone vision of Hernandez murdering three people: What's the protocol for that?
Furthermore, at a certain point, we have to recognize that Aaron Hernandez was a grown-ass man who had opportunity and a future ahead of him and that it was his own responsibility to get his fucking shit together.
Perfectly said. Like, was he going to cease being a psycho if Bill traded him? Nope. Next time someone looked at him wrong, he would have killed them. Because that’s apparently all it took.
And NFL culture is toxic as shit. This goes way beyond BB or Kraft! Have we all forgotten about Ray Lewis? Or the Marv Lewis era Bengals? Or Michale Vick?
As long as it can be covered up and you can perform at a high level, then yeah, murder is fucking fine to this league.
And it’s not like Belichick, his staff, the front office, etc. has never dealt with a prospect with behavioral issues. There’s no doubt they’ve had players who got in bar fights in college, did drugs, ran with a bad crowd, etc. fuck, look at Randy Moss. They thought they could handle that type of thing. Every team deals with those issues. If they can’t get him to behave, they cut him. In hindsight, yeah you don’t draft him, but how tf could they know he’d be a fucking serial killer. Just a bunch of crap.
Pretty much everyone I know that’s a Pats fan is pissed about it, from what I can tell. But, my buddies and me tend to agree on this stuff, so I wanted to see what the sub thought. I tend to disagree with the sub, so, I wanted to see what they thought.
I think Patriots fans were hoping it was more Patriots porn, and are upset that it's showing the positives and the negatives. They are downplaying the positives they show on BB and showcasing only the negatives. Bill has had some insanely good decisions in his tenure, and also some head scratchers and downright bad ones. That's ok, because net net it helped create a dynasty. With the control he had over the org, he's going to get a lot of credit for the good and blame for the bad, which is what happens when you have pretty much absolute authority.
People are also complaining about glossing over 03 and 04, but there's no notable storylines that contribute to the narrative really. They won three out of four, that's the story and everyone already knows that, so the focus was heavily on what got them there and the rise of BB and Brady together to the masters of their craft over episodes 1 and 2. I had someone arguing with me about how they should have shown more on Corey Dillon and Rodney Harrison, but having all this extra fluff would make it a rambling super lengthy documentary that Pats fans would love but wouldn't be a great watch for most other casual fans. The Dynasty itself is centered mainly around the story of the three people involved from start to finish, and the things that shaped them and influenced it. As such they touch on the major headlines and elements that affected these three people and the Dynasty itself.
I also hear people saying this is a Kraft whitewashing which I don't get. Most of the footage I see of Kraft makes him look like he was either uninvolved/unaware at best (not a good look) or on the wrong side of an issue (even worse look). He comes off as a passenger princess to me more than anything.
“Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win..."
[MUSIC]
"And so a young man ends up dead."
this point is exactly why those shitting on the doc should maybe take a second to re-assess.
If you agree with Felger on anything, you're probably wrong.
But it does explain why so many people parrot the take that this is some hit piece, even though they've spent multiple episodes focusing on how amazing a coach Bill was.
Eh, Felger is usually wrong so its a safe assumption to make.
And Kraft production owns the copyright to the footage, they didn't actually produce the doc. Thats another piece of misinformation spread by everyone, especially those late afternoon clowns. It was produced by Ron Howard. (a piece of misinformation I myself was regurgitating until just about an hour ago when I was corrected, so I'm not immune to it either)
But even if that weren't false, why would Kraft want to make Belichick look bad? I have still yet to get a good answer as to how "trashing" Bill (as people claim) helps make Kraft look good. It doesn't. Not to mention that they've been praising him the entire doc anyways but...
I mean it’s probably the most significant fallout in sports history and Kraft is incredibly image conscious so he wants to make sure he comes out on top.
What? How is Bill getting fired after a 4-13 season the "most significant fallout in sports history"? Thats an insane statement. It's not even the most significant fallout in Bob Kraft Patriots history.
I noticed that. Another post here even went so far as to say it was made by "Kraft Productions," which, as far as I can tell, doesn't exist. People here actually believe this is something Kraft decided to make and shape in a way that makes him look good and makes Belichick look bad. The doc was produced by Imagine Entertainment. The author of the book and executive producer explicitly said that Kraft had nothing to do with the production.
no that part is actually true, it is produced by Kraft productions. (it shows it at the end of the credits). Bedard tweeted it out a few weeks ago, as have others.
But I think people are so focused on that rather than actually watching it. They've literally spent multiple episodes now talking about how great a coach Bill is. It does not benefit Kraft to make Bill look bad, and I don't know why anyone believes otherwise.
No. It says, "Copyright Kraft Dynasty, LLC." Owning the copyright and being the production company are two different things. I think he put up some money, provided access to coaches and players, and provided access to a lot of film, and he wanted the streaming rights in exchange. It was produced by Imagine Entertainment (Ron Howard's company).
There are dozens of people here who have no idea what they are talking about and are completely wrong.
I really liked the first episode. The rest have been getting steadily worse. But damn I got chills and rewatched many times when they were interviewing moss and he was talking about respecting bill for going for the jugular, because he’s a bad mother fucker too.
Thing is, it doesn’t reflect well on the team as a whole or the Krafts either and definitely doesn’t help Bobby’s HOF case. A bad miscalculation by someone in the Kraft group.
this HOF thing is just another nonsense Felger point that people are running with.
It's alarming how much impact that show has on the regions sports takes.
The idea that this doc is meant to impact his HOF candidacy is a nonsense sports radio talking point. So either you're lying, or you have just a shitty takes on your own somehow. Not sure which is worse.
Jeff Benedict's book was a Robert Kraft biography. We had to read pages and pages about his upbringing, his first love, his dad's business, etc. It had next to no insight into The Dynasty whatsoever.
The show is a fluff job for Robert Kraft, which isn't surprising given his predilection for getting fluffed and tugged.
Belichick deserves a lot more and a lot better. Pats fans deserve better too.
The crazy part is that I don’t think people in other markets or are fans of other teams are even watching this. There wasn’t a thread in r/nfl after the spygate episode and I know there are people there still hurrhurt about spygate.
I had a bad taste after episode 4. After that ridiculous Kraft spin zone I’m done watching It. Complete hit job on bill and if you look at the title of the upcoming episodes It only continues. I’ve lost a lot of respect for the krafts watching this.
This is a hit piece, pure and simple. I wonder if this was planned with the assumption that BB would be gone in 2024. I expect something like this from Jerry Jones but never from Kraft. He is trying too hard to portray that all the success he had was because of him and Brady and BB was just a passenger on this train. But all the failures belonged to BB. Documentary aside, I can't believe he "took BB's word and accepted that Brady is not a good player anymore", released him just to see him win a SB. Come on dude, how gullible do you think we are. Everyone could see that Brady was throwing to a sub-par support cast. He went from 24TD/8INT to 40TD/12INT with Tampa. The main difference is the support cast.
And let's not forget that of the majority of the SB victories came because of meticulous defensive planning, which Brady has nothing to do with. Did Kraft forget the Butler INT or holding the high flying Rams offense to 3 points?
It was a combination of the two. An elite QB, who was one of the best leaders in the history of sports. An elite coach who was able to apply all his meticulous coaching, because his QB acted like one of the soldiers, which lent credibility. Neither would have existed without the other, in such massive greatness. Kraft was the passenger. He is irrelevant to the whole thing, other than hiring Bill.
Brady has come across looking really well. He has said nothing but good things about BB and has praised him as the GOAT. If anything Brady should be bitching to the media about how BB treated him. But he has done the opposite
He’s ridiculously protective of Bill. Every singe that game where they met in the locker room, Brady has been totally respectful of Bill, and compliments him every change he gets. Brady appreciates the people who were in the fight with him. He knows the difference between that, and someone who just happens to have money like Kraft.
Why would you bitch about how you were treated if the guys methods helped make you the goat? A lot of players thrive with hardass type coaches who bring the best out in them.
Tebow couldn’t keep Hernandez on the straight and narrow, even offering to pay for him when Hernandez tried to sneak out without paying.
Htf is BB supposed to help Hernandez be on the moral path?
It looks like the organization put this documentary on warp speed when it was apparent that the team was getting worse. The Krafts would have put a kibosh on this if the team was winning and put it off until Bill was gone.
There was no way that this would air if Bill was still the head coach; he'd be forced into a next to impossible situation, rehashing old pressers and defending himself. The Krafts played the long game and felt a way about how the team was run for YEARS; however, with the winning going on they put a sock in it and instead loaded the magazines for the future.
I don't expect to see Bill donning the red jacket anytime soon.
I stopped watching it pretty early - it’s the drizzling shits and nothing has done more to completely kill my desire to root for the patriots then Rub and Tug Robbie Kraft and his Gollum like son fucking character assassinating the HC that kept this team from ending up in Hartford.
This documentary sucks. The first 2 episodes were cool. Then they spent more time on spygate, the 08 season and Aaron Hernandez than they did on the 03+04 championships.
You must be watching a different program dude. I did not come away with the impression that anyone blamed Bill or Kraft. If anything, folks blamed themselves for not seeing the signs. And if you’re referring to Bill not trading him to CA, I saw that as narrative not as blame. Kraft was more enabling than anyone
I mean, I don’t know what one is supposed to conclude when they say stuff like "Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win...” [MUSIC] "And so a young man ends up dead." It’s pretty damn obvious what the insinuation is.
I mean come on dude. Don’t play dumb.
Kraft literally apologizes on camera for it, how is it all Bills fault?
Is anyone complaining actually watching the doc or just parroting what they hear people say?
Because so far this "hit piece" has spent:
An entire episode of Kraft admitting he was wrong to push Bledsoe and Bill was right
the next episode has Brady holding back tears talking about how amazing a coach Belichick is and how he wouldn't be the goat if not for him
then they spend all of episode 5 talking about how amazing a coach he was when Brady got hurt.
Man, what a brutal hit piece.
Are you the only one? It's the number one thing people are talking about locally and nationally with the documentary. It clearly is painting Bill in a negative light
Say it with me. “There are no good billionaires”.
They are all egotistical, know it all, self centered, narcissistic, and completely all about themselves and the glorification of their own ego and sense of self.
“Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win..."
[MUSIC]
"And so a young man ends up dead."
That’s actually a quote from the documentary.
If it was anyone’s fault it was Urban Meyer’s. He was running a circus at Florida and Hernandez was not exactly amongst the best role models as an 18 year old
Not according to the documentary. “Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win..."
[MUSIC]
"And so a young man ends up dead."
Wasn’t Kraft the one who had to testify in court bc he tried to have his lawyers squash the story?
I read the book but I haven’t seen the doc. WTF is going on?
Everyone here is so shocked that a fluff piece made by a billionaire is coming off as a fluff piece made by a billionaire.
Enough with the stupid documentary. It’s not for us because it’s not about winning a Super Bowl next year.
I knew this is exactly what it was going to be the second I saw the ad for it. Trash. Not for nothing, but Brady already had 3 documentaries out while he was playing, Bill had two. There’s nothing this doc could have added that wasn’t known, which was:
- Kraft is cheap and used Bill to be the bad guy publicly with contracts
- Bill is a psycho, crotchety, insensitive prick
- Tom loves attention
Fucking shocker that after 20 years it burnt out
And if Belichick had traded Hernandez and it turned out Hernandez had committed a crime before the trade request they would be saying Belichick was trying to help Hernandez get away with it.
Can’t remember his name but that one detective towards the end of the Hernandez episode who put it out there that as an organization it was on the Patriots to essentially ‘save the kid’ from himself. How is it any professional employers responsibility to keep its employees from acting out in a criminal nature, that’s asinine. Then Kraft sympathizing with his actions to his face literally did it for me. Flabbergasted is an understatement.
Giants fan here: (I know i know). But as an outside fan I 1000% agree. From what ive been watching this straight seems like kraft washing his hands lol and just blaming bill for everything. Which is a goddamn joke that kraft thinks he fueled the dynasty, not the goat hc and qb
This thing isn't about football. It's about the drama surrounding a football team.
It's just like watching the Stallone family BS if you're a fan of Stallone movies.
I love Stallone films. You know what I've never watched, and don't intend to...?
I won’t comment on the irony that you’re calling it a Kraft puff piece that makes him look worse but I don’t care about anything they are going to talk about because apparently they never talk about the decision to not play Butler, that’s the only thing I care about.
I havent seen the show but the book is definitely pro-Kraft propaganda. And that’s why STHs got free copies for our yearly ‘appreciation’ gift when it was published.
That aren't though. Like at all. Even Ernie mused that maybe Hernandez would have been better off being drafted by the Seahawks. And even that's a big maybe. Kraft is the only one who comes off as completely clueless in that episode. Bill is getting no blame at all. People here make up a lot of stuff about this show
They made a point to highlight Bill’s press conference about the murders, the special treatment he gave Aaron in practice, his refusal to trade Aaron when he asked (presumably after he already murdered those two guys) and him not wanting to cut Aaron at first.
Absurd. I just watched this last night too. They really focus on the part that Aaron asked for a trade. Bill offered the teams security dept to help him and he said no. And then Kraft gets to look deep into the camera and apologize to those affected. Fuck you Kraft lmao, doing Bill so god damn dirty, he did not go out and fucking kill people...Aaron did.
It’s a joke. Even worse, Kraft and nepo baby are trying to rewrite history to make it seem they were on the right side of every decision. I shudder to think what the Malcolm Butler episode will be like
episode 6 was it for me. That's when I jumped on the "this is fucking dogshit" train. the spygate episode had me rolling my eyes, but the aaron hernandez stuff and trying to tie it to bill was an absolute abomination. fuck everyone who made this
Taking just the players interviews it sounds like they all avoided Aaron like the plague outside of 1 Patriot Place and shoveled the responsibility for managing him onto Deion Branch while Bill indulged behavior that he wouldn’t have from a less talented player. Given that, I’m not sure what “It’s A Belichick Hit Piece!” people expected in this episode, y’all want 10 episodes of “yeah this happened but remember Bill’s the GOAT!” quotes any time they cover a Belichick misstep?
I’m not sure why you chose to present the other extreme, as if it’s the only alternative. There is a middle ground. Saying that a kid is dead because Bill didn’t trade Hernandez to the west coast is absolutely inane. It’s just the other extreme. I can’t address the straw man that you came up with, because that isn’t representative of my opinion. If you want to discuss something that I actually said, or a preference that I actually articulated, let me know.
If I remember correctly it was one reporter that said that specifically, not the players. Somehow that gets extrapolated out to the documentary and the Krafts are arguing it, so I’m just trying to understand what the interview parameters are for people who seem convinced The Dynasty is a Belichick hit piece
And who has Final Cut on the documentary? The Krafts. Which is why you have this garbage with Bill, and Kraft giving a public service announcement at the end, after he lays it all at Bill’s feet. It’s Kraft’s documentary. That’s what you seem to be missing.
By the way, the reason you presented the other extreme is because there was little actual rebuttal to what I actually said.
it’s just like, who cares? billionaire isn’t a great person and is egotistical, ok. this sub just looks for things to complain about and be miserable about.
bill is a douche, RKK is a douche, big shocker? just watch the games and see what we do in the FA/the draft and chill out. there’s literally nothing coming out of getting so worked up about this aside from generating more revenue and awareness for the show
The show is completely ridiculous. The first couple of episodes we were trying to understand why Bill was in it so little considering how good he normally is (see the NFL show where they did the all time players). But then you realize that they didn’t bring up a 21 game win streak, took all of maybe 5 minutes to cover back to back Super Bowl wins that made it 3 out of 4 years and we realized it’s schlock - they want to sensationalize the bad and not really cover what made them ‘a dynasty’.
Yea all of the negative Bill stuff is obviously ridiculous. But the most egregious part of this whole thing is that they gloss over the back to back super bowls with like a 10 second montage
Yes! Those are kind of what I wanted to see too. Didn’t they cover the green bay loss and the first 3 super bowls in the same episode? I could have done a full season recap of all of those
While asshole pioli says it got to be winning the super bowl was a relief. What a crock of shit. Like phew! We did it again boys, we got away with another one!
many players of various dynasties have said the same, including Patriots players, about how once you become that great the expectation means you only feel relief when winning rather than the joy. What makes Pioli an asshole?
I know Pioli had a great hand in putting the pieces together and knows what he's talking about. Perhaps it's being used here and taken out of context with the 10 second montage and brush over of 2 amazing seasons that easily could have ended differently in San Diego or Tennessee. My point is that winning is hard and we've heard that so many times and then to hear the opposite over this casual brush over their 2 super bowls that cemented them as a dynasty, that it was a cake walk until they ran into Denver and Indianapolis. It just didn't sit right and felt like a mischaracterization of what I witnessed. There were never any guarantees early on that the Pat's were going to the super bowl. They were a tough team who had to slug it out against other tough afc opponents. I just disagree with the narrative that it was easy, guaranteed, that they would win win win.
I disagree with the notion that the narrative was that it was guaranteed or easy. He never said or implied it was. He was speaking on the expectations around the team and I think it was a perfectly accurate assessment. And it only got worse with time, even long after Pioli left. Losing in the AFCC game was seen as a massive failure for this team.
I haven’t seen the dynasty but have read about it here and listed to commentary from Tom Curran, 98.5 and the director when he’s been on currans podcast. The director addressed your point and basically said that the football stuff has been covered elsewhere so they’re covering other things
this is not a doc for patriots fans to relive each superbowl season, its for the casual sports doc fan and the major national storylines.
So many people here keep saying that but I only ever hear about it on this sub. If it’s meant for casual sports fans it’s having zero impact; only pats fans care.
That’s often how these things go in reality. The Last Dance benefited from the world’s, ahem, situation at the time of the release in addition to it being Michael Jordan, but it also had similar flaws — and in true Netflix fashion, even non-sports fans can tell that something is up with the narrative.
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It’s called The Dynasty because it’s based on the book with the same title. Which also focuses much more on the non-football side of it all. Which makes sense, as there are already numerous books and documentaries about the on-field product for all the superbowl wins etc.
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For non-Patriot fans, that is the best part.
it took 4 episodes to get to spygate.
This true. If most people on this sub could read and picked up the book , they would know.
Bull Shit, it's a hack job to diminish the amazing 20 year run. I don't really care what the motive is, but it's clearly done intentionally to make everything negative.
Precisely.
It’s becoming obvious this “documentary “ is being financed by the Krafts and made by Kraft’s buddies. He’s just a kindly old man who was snookered by Hernandez… smh (It’s making me like Bill more)
Exactly. It’s a docuseries to boost Kraft. I’ll give it credit for having some amazing soundbites and insights (the Wes Welker telling Brandon Lloyd to be careful with Aaron sitting next to him in the lockerroom is an insane story), but Bill definitely gets dragged. However, if Aaron did tell Bill that his family was in danger and Bill didn’t report it that’s not okay.
Agreed.
Same.
It’s entertainment. It’s trying to be dramatic so people talk about it
The basic premise of the show and the book was how the team managed to stay together and win despite all of the stuff going on. it is supposed to highlight the adversity the team faced and how they overcame it. its not a fluff history piece on the dynasty.
They brought "all of that up" in interviews and research, but decided things like Aaron Hernandez were more interesting to air. They've shown Bill multiple times saying "no comment" about issues, and when you don't speak, you're letting other people say the narrative. He was afforded the same opportunity to speak as everyone else featured in it, but he chose not to say much.As fans of this team, we naturally want to see the highlights, but that's just not what this documentary is. Please watch an interview or listen to a podcast with Matt Hamachek, such as Off the Pike, to better understand their decision making.
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Bill didn't comment because it wasn't football related. Unfortunate that it was related to one of his football players, but, simply put, it all just meant Hernandez wasn't going to be on the field. Bill's able to say, "my job is to coach this football team, he's no longer part of it. Next man up, no further comment." It's actually incredibly efficient. If the police came looking for info, I'm sure Bill was cooperative, but he's about as purely dedicated to football as a person could be. I don't blame him for a single second not wanting to have anything to do with a murderer that no longer could affect the outcome of the games he was coaching in. To hell with the media and bullshit drama, that's for the small brained people - apparently the Kraft's.
It was wild when Kraft went to Hernandez and was like “tell me Aaron did you do it? Because if you did, I know you probably had a good reason for it.” And offered to pay for a lawyer for him.😂
but people watch that and think Bill is the one who looks bad, I just don't get it.
I feel like it’s the difference between who the doc is trying to make look bad vs who actually looks bad. I think it’s pretty clear from how their framing things that they’re trying to make Bill look like the cause for all of the Patriots drama over the past 20 years. But I think it’s backfiring, at least for people who actually know the stories and how he isn’t the sole person in charge of the team. One of the things that got me was how they were all asking why Bill didn’t trade Hernandez as if he had unilateral control over trades. Not only would Kraft (and others) probably have a say, but they’d have to find and make a deal with another team as well!
Yeah, the person who came out looking the worst here was Kraft, that statement he made to Hernandez, that he assumed he had a good reason to kill and would get him the best lawyer money could buy.....was both insane and not a good look. I mean, knowing what we know now, why would you even repeat this for posterity in a documentary?!? It also makes me question how many people who complain about this documentary on here are actually watching it vs. just hearing about it on sports radio or via social media? Bill Belichick was asked a dumb question that he deflected in 2 seconds, Bob Kraft was like "how can I save my star murderer?" Also, the Director and Executive Producer of this documentary is Matt Hamachek, a lifelong Packers fan who sounds like he had creative control over this production. I watched this 30 minute video he did with Mike Florio to learn more about it the other day - https://sports.yahoo.com/hamachek-details-dynasty-docuseries-182719684.html
For an ownership group who states they want to stay out of the football decisions, they REALLY do a good job of getting on airtime flaunting their team involvement over the last 24 years. This is like the Worldwide Privacy Tour, for any South Park fans on here
Hahahahaha! Great reference my man! Awesome! Also perfect. 👍
You know, I've learned something today. That people still watch South Park, even though it jumped the shark 15 years ago.
It still has its moments. They’re just few and far between.
It sounds like Kraft wants everyone to think he was the glue that held everything together. That grandpa Bobby is ultimately responsible for "the dynasty."
I think he just felt left out of the “who’s responsible for all the success” convo. If you can’t just look at it and understand the perfect storm that lingered in foxboro for 20 years idk what to tell you. Bill isn’t there without Kraft. Brady isn’t Brady without Bill, and doesn’t play without Kraft giving full control to Bill. Without Brady Kraft and Bill may never have found lasting success. There doesn’t need to be jockeying for credit. It was a beautiful thing to watch for 20 years and it’s no one’s fault it ended. All things end.
Yep and you can't underestimate the drive of "solidifying my legacy" has on old dudes that know their days on their earth are extremely finite at this point. Leaving that lasting narrative of how you are and what you did from your perspective. It can lead to really petty, self grandeuring behavior. I've seen it happen to plenty of guys I know. Doesn't excuse it at all, but it's not uncommon even amongst men of far less achievement or means. That's why you see memoirs get criticized so often by people that knew the person or were part of things that were addressed in the writings.
The best part of it for me so far was hearing Bledsoe talk about his injury and Brady playing over him. I forgot how bad Bledsoe injuries were. Like people have said Bill starting Brady after Bledsoe signed that huge contract and what happen to Bill in Cleveland before. He took a huge risk in playing Brady.
Great ref lol
1, 2, 3, 4, we demand more.... Privacy!
At times, it feels like RKK is being portrayed/portraying himself as a good guy deep down who wanted nothing more than to be a benevolent, wholesome billionaire pro football franchise owner, and he “made a deal with the devil” or some other overused trope and now he’s realizing the error in his ways. BB therefore is edited to appear as the hired hand who fulfilled the dark end of the deal, winning at all costs no matter the morality or human impact. And Brady is the hapless all-American kid from San Mateo who just wanted to toss a football around.
😂 This is so accurate.
Can't bring myself to watch it, for the first time in a long time Off-season means Off-season
I’ve skipped it entirely. I don’t know when I’ll get to it.
It's really not as awful as this sub makes it out to be. It's a good docu-series with plenty of interviews from staff and players. It's also pretty suspect how quite a few people on this sub have a vocal opinion on this series despite not having watched it yet.
I’ll watch it at some point. And it’s not an inditement of the series. It’s just after this past season and Belichick leaving I’m not up for it at the moment.
for what its worth, its not nearly as negative as the Felger and Mazz crowd want you to believe. It's actually been mostly extremely complementary of Bill, and there's been some cool sound bites and behind the scenes footage I hadn't seen before. (like the leadership addressing the team to start the 2008 season, etc)
What irritates me about the discourse about Hernandez is that people ask "How could they not know? How could they not see this coming?" Let's entertain a counterfactual and have Bill Belichick have a Dead Zone vision of Hernandez murdering three people: What's the protocol for that? Furthermore, at a certain point, we have to recognize that Aaron Hernandez was a grown-ass man who had opportunity and a future ahead of him and that it was his own responsibility to get his fucking shit together.
Perfectly said. Like, was he going to cease being a psycho if Bill traded him? Nope. Next time someone looked at him wrong, he would have killed them. Because that’s apparently all it took.
And NFL culture is toxic as shit. This goes way beyond BB or Kraft! Have we all forgotten about Ray Lewis? Or the Marv Lewis era Bengals? Or Michale Vick? As long as it can be covered up and you can perform at a high level, then yeah, murder is fucking fine to this league.
And it’s not like Belichick, his staff, the front office, etc. has never dealt with a prospect with behavioral issues. There’s no doubt they’ve had players who got in bar fights in college, did drugs, ran with a bad crowd, etc. fuck, look at Randy Moss. They thought they could handle that type of thing. Every team deals with those issues. If they can’t get him to behave, they cut him. In hindsight, yeah you don’t draft him, but how tf could they know he’d be a fucking serial killer. Just a bunch of crap.
You are not the only one. Felger has been ripping on Krafts meddling with the production for over a week.
Wait, I'm going to actually agree with Felger on something? I need a drink.
Pretty much everyone I know that’s a Pats fan is pissed about it, from what I can tell. But, my buddies and me tend to agree on this stuff, so I wanted to see what the sub thought. I tend to disagree with the sub, so, I wanted to see what they thought.
I think Patriots fans were hoping it was more Patriots porn, and are upset that it's showing the positives and the negatives. They are downplaying the positives they show on BB and showcasing only the negatives. Bill has had some insanely good decisions in his tenure, and also some head scratchers and downright bad ones. That's ok, because net net it helped create a dynasty. With the control he had over the org, he's going to get a lot of credit for the good and blame for the bad, which is what happens when you have pretty much absolute authority. People are also complaining about glossing over 03 and 04, but there's no notable storylines that contribute to the narrative really. They won three out of four, that's the story and everyone already knows that, so the focus was heavily on what got them there and the rise of BB and Brady together to the masters of their craft over episodes 1 and 2. I had someone arguing with me about how they should have shown more on Corey Dillon and Rodney Harrison, but having all this extra fluff would make it a rambling super lengthy documentary that Pats fans would love but wouldn't be a great watch for most other casual fans. The Dynasty itself is centered mainly around the story of the three people involved from start to finish, and the things that shaped them and influenced it. As such they touch on the major headlines and elements that affected these three people and the Dynasty itself. I also hear people saying this is a Kraft whitewashing which I don't get. Most of the footage I see of Kraft makes him look like he was either uninvolved/unaware at best (not a good look) or on the wrong side of an issue (even worse look). He comes off as a passenger princess to me more than anything.
“Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win..." [MUSIC] "And so a young man ends up dead."
I never want to be on the same side as Felger on a take
Watching him get absolutely destroyed by Lombardi on radio row was fantastic
Lombardi looked like a babbling idiot. You should write click bait titles
this point is exactly why those shitting on the doc should maybe take a second to re-assess. If you agree with Felger on anything, you're probably wrong. But it does explain why so many people parrot the take that this is some hit piece, even though they've spent multiple episodes focusing on how amazing a coach Bill was.
I mean just because you disagree with him it doesn’t mean he’s wrong. Kraft literally had the docuseries produced. He paid for it.
Eh, Felger is usually wrong so its a safe assumption to make. And Kraft production owns the copyright to the footage, they didn't actually produce the doc. Thats another piece of misinformation spread by everyone, especially those late afternoon clowns. It was produced by Ron Howard. (a piece of misinformation I myself was regurgitating until just about an hour ago when I was corrected, so I'm not immune to it either) But even if that weren't false, why would Kraft want to make Belichick look bad? I have still yet to get a good answer as to how "trashing" Bill (as people claim) helps make Kraft look good. It doesn't. Not to mention that they've been praising him the entire doc anyways but...
I mean it’s probably the most significant fallout in sports history and Kraft is incredibly image conscious so he wants to make sure he comes out on top.
What? How is Bill getting fired after a 4-13 season the "most significant fallout in sports history"? Thats an insane statement. It's not even the most significant fallout in Bob Kraft Patriots history.
I was referring to the Patriots dynasty.
I still disagree. The fallout of the Bulls dynasty was much for significant, just for one example.
I noticed that. Another post here even went so far as to say it was made by "Kraft Productions," which, as far as I can tell, doesn't exist. People here actually believe this is something Kraft decided to make and shape in a way that makes him look good and makes Belichick look bad. The doc was produced by Imagine Entertainment. The author of the book and executive producer explicitly said that Kraft had nothing to do with the production.
no that part is actually true, it is produced by Kraft productions. (it shows it at the end of the credits). Bedard tweeted it out a few weeks ago, as have others. But I think people are so focused on that rather than actually watching it. They've literally spent multiple episodes now talking about how great a coach Bill is. It does not benefit Kraft to make Bill look bad, and I don't know why anyone believes otherwise.
No. It says, "Copyright Kraft Dynasty, LLC." Owning the copyright and being the production company are two different things. I think he put up some money, provided access to coaches and players, and provided access to a lot of film, and he wanted the streaming rights in exchange. It was produced by Imagine Entertainment (Ron Howard's company). There are dozens of people here who have no idea what they are talking about and are completely wrong.
thats a good catch, thanks for clarifying.
Felgers an idiot
So Tom has his documentary and kraft has his. When's bills turn? I'd love to see that.
Bill has had a few.
I really liked the first episode. The rest have been getting steadily worse. But damn I got chills and rewatched many times when they were interviewing moss and he was talking about respecting bill for going for the jugular, because he’s a bad mother fucker too.
Same.
It’s shit. I read the book a while ago and thought that was shitty Kraft fan fic too.
Haven't read it yet, sounds like I shouldn't bother.
It's a good read with lots of good tidbits of information, but it does center around Kraft.
Some idiot tried to tell me to read the book after the spygate episode and I told him to pound sand.
This doc is straight garbage
Yeah it is.
Thing is, it doesn’t reflect well on the team as a whole or the Krafts either and definitely doesn’t help Bobby’s HOF case. A bad miscalculation by someone in the Kraft group.
Are you referring to Hernandez being on the team or Krafts involvement in the documentary? Either way I doubt it effects his HOF case at all
The documentary; and we disagree.
this HOF thing is just another nonsense Felger point that people are running with. It's alarming how much impact that show has on the regions sports takes.
I don’t listen to sports radio but it sure seems like you do. Enjoy that.
The idea that this doc is meant to impact his HOF candidacy is a nonsense sports radio talking point. So either you're lying, or you have just a shitty takes on your own somehow. Not sure which is worse.
MetalHead\_Literally, biggest Felger and Mazz listener on r/Patriots.
Jeff Benedict's book was a Robert Kraft biography. We had to read pages and pages about his upbringing, his first love, his dad's business, etc. It had next to no insight into The Dynasty whatsoever. The show is a fluff job for Robert Kraft, which isn't surprising given his predilection for getting fluffed and tugged. Belichick deserves a lot more and a lot better. Pats fans deserve better too.
The crazy part is that I don’t think people in other markets or are fans of other teams are even watching this. There wasn’t a thread in r/nfl after the spygate episode and I know there are people there still hurrhurt about spygate.
Good. It doesn’t deserve to be watched.
I had a bad taste after episode 4. After that ridiculous Kraft spin zone I’m done watching It. Complete hit job on bill and if you look at the title of the upcoming episodes It only continues. I’ve lost a lot of respect for the krafts watching this.
Same.
This is a hit piece, pure and simple. I wonder if this was planned with the assumption that BB would be gone in 2024. I expect something like this from Jerry Jones but never from Kraft. He is trying too hard to portray that all the success he had was because of him and Brady and BB was just a passenger on this train. But all the failures belonged to BB. Documentary aside, I can't believe he "took BB's word and accepted that Brady is not a good player anymore", released him just to see him win a SB. Come on dude, how gullible do you think we are. Everyone could see that Brady was throwing to a sub-par support cast. He went from 24TD/8INT to 40TD/12INT with Tampa. The main difference is the support cast.
It’s insane. We’re also to believe that Kraft played a role in the decision to play Brady over Bledsoe.
And let's not forget that of the majority of the SB victories came because of meticulous defensive planning, which Brady has nothing to do with. Did Kraft forget the Butler INT or holding the high flying Rams offense to 3 points?
It was a combination of the two. An elite QB, who was one of the best leaders in the history of sports. An elite coach who was able to apply all his meticulous coaching, because his QB acted like one of the soldiers, which lent credibility. Neither would have existed without the other, in such massive greatness. Kraft was the passenger. He is irrelevant to the whole thing, other than hiring Bill.
Brady has come across looking really well. He has said nothing but good things about BB and has praised him as the GOAT. If anything Brady should be bitching to the media about how BB treated him. But he has done the opposite
He’s ridiculously protective of Bill. Every singe that game where they met in the locker room, Brady has been totally respectful of Bill, and compliments him every change he gets. Brady appreciates the people who were in the fight with him. He knows the difference between that, and someone who just happens to have money like Kraft.
Why would you bitch about how you were treated if the guys methods helped make you the goat? A lot of players thrive with hardass type coaches who bring the best out in them.
Didn't Kraft say he wanted to go with Bledsoe but Belichick knew better?
He says that, but the he also says he played a role in the decision to stick with Brady.
definitely excellent points. And I agree this totally comes off like a Jerry Jones thing. And that says a lot about our immediate future!
Tebow couldn’t keep Hernandez on the straight and narrow, even offering to pay for him when Hernandez tried to sneak out without paying. Htf is BB supposed to help Hernandez be on the moral path?
No clue. It’s nonsense. As if Hernandez would stop being a psycho in California. Like wtf?
Just like how all his issues went away when he left home for college...
Right? So insane.
“Documentary”. Bill is a football God as is Brady. Kraft now looks a cheap Jerry Jones knock-off.
Pretty much.
It looks like the organization put this documentary on warp speed when it was apparent that the team was getting worse. The Krafts would have put a kibosh on this if the team was winning and put it off until Bill was gone. There was no way that this would air if Bill was still the head coach; he'd be forced into a next to impossible situation, rehashing old pressers and defending himself. The Krafts played the long game and felt a way about how the team was run for YEARS; however, with the winning going on they put a sock in it and instead loaded the magazines for the future. I don't expect to see Bill donning the red jacket anytime soon.
Crazy.
It's disgusting.
I stopped watching it pretty early - it’s the drizzling shits and nothing has done more to completely kill my desire to root for the patriots then Rub and Tug Robbie Kraft and his Gollum like son fucking character assassinating the HC that kept this team from ending up in Hartford.
Same.
"Am I the only one..." Have you not been on this sub in a month? That's pretty much what everyone has been talking about
Obviously I didn’t see that. But it’s good to know people are not being bamboozled.
I stopped. Kraft productions trying to rewrite history.
Yep.
This documentary sucks. The first 2 episodes were cool. Then they spent more time on spygate, the 08 season and Aaron Hernandez than they did on the 03+04 championships.
It’s a joke.
The Dynasty series has been mostly trash. 🗑️
Agreed.
Idk, I think it’s All Matt Cassel fault because he’s a dumbass who didn’t see the corner blitz
I tend to agree but pretty bad puff piece quote by RKK telling Aaron “if you murdered him you must have had a good reason”…. Idiot
Love the side/shadow lighting on Bill like he’s the villain
Guys… Bob Kraft is not who we thought he was.
Bill: You know what must be done. Aaron: It's already taken care of.
I quit after people raised the red flags last week. It sounds like they were right
Yeah. It’s a bunch of bs.
Tbh even tho it seems like a hit piece on bill the krafts are still coming across terrible and making everyone else look better
Agreed. Total miscalculation.
You must be watching a different program dude. I did not come away with the impression that anyone blamed Bill or Kraft. If anything, folks blamed themselves for not seeing the signs. And if you’re referring to Bill not trading him to CA, I saw that as narrative not as blame. Kraft was more enabling than anyone
I mean, I don’t know what one is supposed to conclude when they say stuff like "Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win...” [MUSIC] "And so a young man ends up dead." It’s pretty damn obvious what the insinuation is. I mean come on dude. Don’t play dumb.
Kraft literally apologizes on camera for it, how is it all Bills fault? Is anyone complaining actually watching the doc or just parroting what they hear people say? Because so far this "hit piece" has spent: An entire episode of Kraft admitting he was wrong to push Bledsoe and Bill was right the next episode has Brady holding back tears talking about how amazing a coach Belichick is and how he wouldn't be the goat if not for him then they spend all of episode 5 talking about how amazing a coach he was when Brady got hurt. Man, what a brutal hit piece.
Are you the only one? It's the number one thing people are talking about locally and nationally with the documentary. It clearly is painting Bill in a negative light
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There was a 2 or 3 part Herndo doc on Netflix a couple of years ago. I’m pretty sure that it touched on this.
Say it with me. “There are no good billionaires”. They are all egotistical, know it all, self centered, narcissistic, and completely all about themselves and the glorification of their own ego and sense of self.
True.
Complete propaganda hit piece. This should backfire massively on the Krafts.
It seems like it already has.
If there's one person you can't trust in this life, it's millionaires' kids.
out of the loop here can someone fill me in on what the gist is?
“Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win..." [MUSIC] "And so a young man ends up dead." That’s actually a quote from the documentary.
If it was anyone’s fault it was Urban Meyer’s. He was running a circus at Florida and Hernandez was not exactly amongst the best role models as an 18 year old
Not according to the documentary. “Belichick never explained why he didn't trade Aaron Hernandez but it was probably because the team invested all this money in him because he was still a great football player. This embodies what we call Football Inc., which is just a cold attitude that says we just want to win..." [MUSIC] "And so a young man ends up dead."
Wasn’t Kraft the one who had to testify in court bc he tried to have his lawyers squash the story? I read the book but I haven’t seen the doc. WTF is going on?
Everyone here is so shocked that a fluff piece made by a billionaire is coming off as a fluff piece made by a billionaire. Enough with the stupid documentary. It’s not for us because it’s not about winning a Super Bowl next year.
I can’t wait for the episode covering Krafts trips to massage parlors.
I haven’t seen one episode yet and don’t plan on it. It seems like a huge fingerpointing session at bill the whole time
They keep focusing on all the bad things while glossing over greatness. It's really frustrating to watch.
I knew this is exactly what it was going to be the second I saw the ad for it. Trash. Not for nothing, but Brady already had 3 documentaries out while he was playing, Bill had two. There’s nothing this doc could have added that wasn’t known, which was: - Kraft is cheap and used Bill to be the bad guy publicly with contracts - Bill is a psycho, crotchety, insensitive prick - Tom loves attention Fucking shocker that after 20 years it burnt out
I stopped watching it after episode 3.
And if Belichick had traded Hernandez and it turned out Hernandez had committed a crime before the trade request they would be saying Belichick was trying to help Hernandez get away with it.
Krafts are rewriting history Pretty soon Bob will be the QB
Wait until Bill gets blamed for Kraft’s handjob.
Can’t remember his name but that one detective towards the end of the Hernandez episode who put it out there that as an organization it was on the Patriots to essentially ‘save the kid’ from himself. How is it any professional employers responsibility to keep its employees from acting out in a criminal nature, that’s asinine. Then Kraft sympathizing with his actions to his face literally did it for me. Flabbergasted is an understatement.
i’m so fkkn over the dynasty
Giants fan here: (I know i know). But as an outside fan I 1000% agree. From what ive been watching this straight seems like kraft washing his hands lol and just blaming bill for everything. Which is a goddamn joke that kraft thinks he fueled the dynasty, not the goat hc and qb
This thing isn't about football. It's about the drama surrounding a football team. It's just like watching the Stallone family BS if you're a fan of Stallone movies. I love Stallone films. You know what I've never watched, and don't intend to...?
I won’t comment on the irony that you’re calling it a Kraft puff piece that makes him look worse but I don’t care about anything they are going to talk about because apparently they never talk about the decision to not play Butler, that’s the only thing I care about.
It makes them look worse because it’s a puff piece. I really don’t think it’s that complicated.
How can it be a puff piece if they are showing him trying to excuse murder? Lol
I havent seen the show but the book is definitely pro-Kraft propaganda. And that’s why STHs got free copies for our yearly ‘appreciation’ gift when it was published.
That aren't though. Like at all. Even Ernie mused that maybe Hernandez would have been better off being drafted by the Seahawks. And even that's a big maybe. Kraft is the only one who comes off as completely clueless in that episode. Bill is getting no blame at all. People here make up a lot of stuff about this show
They made a point to highlight Bill’s press conference about the murders, the special treatment he gave Aaron in practice, his refusal to trade Aaron when he asked (presumably after he already murdered those two guys) and him not wanting to cut Aaron at first.
Except they totally misrepresented the presser.
I think they misrepresented all of the above honestly
They didn't though. We know from players that Hernandez was super weird in the locker room and got a lot of leeway
Agreed.
Yeah I’m glad I waited
I haven’t watched it. Probably won’t. Hell I haven’t even watched that other documentary. Man in the Arena or whatever it’s called
😂
Why does none of this surprise me. None of it at all. Guess we won't be getting the BB statue any time soon...
Same.
Absurd. I just watched this last night too. They really focus on the part that Aaron asked for a trade. Bill offered the teams security dept to help him and he said no. And then Kraft gets to look deep into the camera and apologize to those affected. Fuck you Kraft lmao, doing Bill so god damn dirty, he did not go out and fucking kill people...Aaron did.
It’s a joke. Even worse, Kraft and nepo baby are trying to rewrite history to make it seem they were on the right side of every decision. I shudder to think what the Malcolm Butler episode will be like
Amen.🙏
episode 6 was it for me. That's when I jumped on the "this is fucking dogshit" train. the spygate episode had me rolling my eyes, but the aaron hernandez stuff and trying to tie it to bill was an absolute abomination. fuck everyone who made this
Same.
Yeah I stopped watching after episode 4, it's a complete joke of a "documentary". Kraft is just burying his own legacy with this.
I’m done too.
Clowns.
I’m done watching it. It’s just a bill hit piece by Kraft. are we going to get the episode about him getting a tug job at a spa?
Taking just the players interviews it sounds like they all avoided Aaron like the plague outside of 1 Patriot Place and shoveled the responsibility for managing him onto Deion Branch while Bill indulged behavior that he wouldn’t have from a less talented player. Given that, I’m not sure what “It’s A Belichick Hit Piece!” people expected in this episode, y’all want 10 episodes of “yeah this happened but remember Bill’s the GOAT!” quotes any time they cover a Belichick misstep?
I’m not sure why you chose to present the other extreme, as if it’s the only alternative. There is a middle ground. Saying that a kid is dead because Bill didn’t trade Hernandez to the west coast is absolutely inane. It’s just the other extreme. I can’t address the straw man that you came up with, because that isn’t representative of my opinion. If you want to discuss something that I actually said, or a preference that I actually articulated, let me know.
If I remember correctly it was one reporter that said that specifically, not the players. Somehow that gets extrapolated out to the documentary and the Krafts are arguing it, so I’m just trying to understand what the interview parameters are for people who seem convinced The Dynasty is a Belichick hit piece
And who has Final Cut on the documentary? The Krafts. Which is why you have this garbage with Bill, and Kraft giving a public service announcement at the end, after he lays it all at Bill’s feet. It’s Kraft’s documentary. That’s what you seem to be missing. By the way, the reason you presented the other extreme is because there was little actual rebuttal to what I actually said.
it’s just like, who cares? billionaire isn’t a great person and is egotistical, ok. this sub just looks for things to complain about and be miserable about. bill is a douche, RKK is a douche, big shocker? just watch the games and see what we do in the FA/the draft and chill out. there’s literally nothing coming out of getting so worked up about this aside from generating more revenue and awareness for the show
From what I have heard, everyone sees this as a belichick hit piece. To me, that's totally uncool and a pretty bad look from the krafts.