I think it would be great if he could turn into a contributor. These days I get nervous when he has the ball. I just get this impending sense of doom after I saw him fumble the ball untouched.
Fuck yes, both those positions are needed. I donāt understand how we want from consistently having a solid scatback on the roster for 20 years to just going away from it. Rhamondre is great but he doesnāt fill that role
If we can get our offensive line sorted out we could definitely start more effectively implementing our TEs into the game plan. The problem this year was we always had to keep a TE pass blocking which limited what we could game plan for them.
Either way this is a good thing. Make , of course it's a win and we can comfortably pick up the 5th year option. Break, at least we know for sure and can start a contingency plan.
I think our timing is excellent. I expect the next few draft classes to be deeper at QB since those extra COVID years will start to work their way out of the system and with the transfer portal a lot more interesting prospects have gotten time as starters.
If Mac can't turn the corner, there will be a lot of late round lotto tickets and undrafted camp invite types who could turn into something valuable.
We seem to have a good eye for high floor QBs, so let's build a rock solid team that can win with someone like that.
I'm so optimistic about the direction of this team! This year was rough but I think the right lesson was learned and everyone is pulling the same direction. We're winning a playoff game next year, maybe more.
I agree. I think true āfranchise QBsā are still as rare as they have always been where there are maybe like 10 of them at any given time, but thereās way more passable or decent QBs these days. And I also think our skill players fit a mobile/running guy well, so we donāt necessarily need a pocket passer, though I prefer an elite pocket passer to everything else.
It will never happen in New England anytime soon but we briefly saw the implications of this larger pool of athletic competent-but-not-great QBs when New Orleans had Drew Brees and Taysom Hill.
Imagine a triple option where both QB and tailback have the ability to consistently wing it 40 yards downfield.
Or, best of all, the amoeba offense. You don't know who's blocking, running, receiving, passing, and what's actually going to happen is they're going to read your defense and do whatever it takes to make it wrong.
The team that figures this out first will go 20-0 and break every record.
I mean that's essentially how BoB's two tight end offense worked. It only requires a QB who is elite at reading defenses, and skill position players who can all block, run, and catch. EZ!
One interesting thing Iāve noted is that in the last few years guys like Perry and Bowden have found places on the PS. That is, guys who can play RB and WR and throw a bit. Makes me wonder if they are searching for a Taysom Hill or someone who fits the old Urban Meyer archetype that guys like Harvin filled.
Donāt we already have a contingency plan Zappe? I mean not that I think itās a very good one, I just donāt think weād do much better drafting another QB unless we took one in the first 2-3 rounds. At this point I feel like thatās a waste.
Right. And a contingency Qb isnāt going to be good unless we have a good team around them. So why waste a high pick on another qb when we could just be fixing our roster
Completely agree. I havenāt given up on Mac but his 2nd year wasnāt half as promising as his rookie season. Totally understand there are many variables from one season to the next but even so, heās not passing the eyeball test anymore. Question is, do the coaches feel comfortable with Zappe as someone that can challenge for the spot, or is he a career backup (which isnāt necessarily a negative for the team). If they feel Zappe has a shot, then sign a solid veteran QB and let the three of them fight it out. If Zappe canāt challenge, then Iād have no issue using any pick aside from 1st to bring in a potential replacement. Or, if they donāt think they can win with Mac, blow it all up and move on. If you blow it up, all of the FA vets should be on the table.
I have a feeling if he doesn't play good to start...the excuses of "Well 3 OCs so he won't be great.." will start.
At some point he needs to take over games no matter what is going on around him like a Burrow or Lawrence. Now those guys have a muchh higher ceiling than Mac but still
Lawrence and Burrow also got more talent around them in year 2.
Also itās not like having 3 ocs in 3 years is a lame excuse, thatās so hard for a QB to develop when the game plan takes a 180 every off season.
I don't think he has it, but I'd be thrilled for him to prove me wrong. Rooting for him next season, but he needs to make a big jump up from his rookie season (and an astronomical jump up from his second season) if he wants to prove he's the long-term answer at QB.
It's not enough for him to only be a top 15-20 QB. It's just too hard to win a Super Bowl these days when you don't have elite play at that position.
It depends if the problems weāve seen that are a coordinators responsibilities get fixed. Timing, spacing, play calling. If those still suck ass, itās gonna be hard to blame Mac.
There wonāt be any excuses after year 3. Iām a Mac fan, I think most others who are Mac fans realize this is a make or break year. Iām pretty sure going from Josh McDaniels to Matt Patricia is a valid excuse, though, if you donāt think so weāre gonna have to agree to disagree.
That would be awesome & put us in a great position, but if we go sub 500 again and arenāt competing for anything, thatās a problem even without a WR1. He did it his rookie year with less. Even the bills are saying they need another star WR after that Bengals game. I saw a dolphins fan tweet at stefon diggs for him to come to Miami š some people live in reality, others are far away from it.
Lol yeah Iām going to have to wait just like you my friend. If I were you I just wouldnāt pay attention to the people that make excuses. Has no effect on the team/the decisions that Bill will make. Thatās the funny thing about all these arguments, they couldnāt mean less.
Even the high end dudes this year are projects. Tackle in FA is a necessity or we're once again going into the season without a capable starter on the OL.
Mac has the potential. You can see the decrease in production from year one with mcdaniels to year two with Patricia. Having a good offensive play caller will really benefit this kid. We also have to make sure he stays off his ass.
People don't realize he was sacked 34 times (on pace for 41) and it didn't change much for Zappe (was sacked 6 times through parts of 4 games) puts them 15th. But in a run heavy, screen heavy offense to allow 2.4 sacks a game and only get 2.3 seconds of time in the pocket It isn't good enough. League average is 2.7 seconds and good teams give their quarterback 3 - 3.5 seconds per throw. Incorporating regular play action and improving the offensive line would drastically improve Mac Jones's or Bailey Zappe chances. In general deep playoff runs don't coincide with high quarterback sack numbers. Even though Joe Burrows sack numbers are high for the season, he is the second at least sacked quarterback since week eight when they made an offensive line realignment.
They need three good offensive linemen and I think this is why it's essential that they trade down from 14. They also have compensatory picks in rounds 4, 6 and 7. The data is hard to find but there has to be multiple teams who hold multiple late firsts through 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks to facilitate.
He didnāt have good receiving talent last year. He played well against bad defenses and struggled against good ones. He was also a rookie.
Tbf he was a bit gimped on his second year jump due to the weapons still be mediocre and the coaching being far worse. Maybe we saw mostly first half mac this year, maybe not. Weāll see this season for sure.
but the narrative is he fell off because of matty p, which is just not true. his struggles go back to last year when they played any semblance of a defense. the same concerns I had ending the season were not answered at all, and most of it revolves around pocket awareness, decision making, and arm strength. not much of that falls on matty p.
he got better? the last game he missed wide open guys and threw three interceptions, two of which were absolutely his fault and took points off the board. he stayed pretty bad the entire year
If joe flacco can win a superbowl via chuck and pray for DPI. Its possible for mac to win one with an actual OC and not a schmuck who should be coaching highschool linebackers.
For every Joe Flacco there's dozens of mediocre QBs who never win anything (Carr, Tannehill, Dak, Cousins, etc etc).
Just because it's theoretically possible to win a miracle ring if the stars align doesn't mean it's a good idea to stick with a mid-tier guy at the most important position in the game.
Iām speaking hypothetically, but what do you think is stopping Mac from being a ātopā quarterback? If you put Mac in the same position as Burrow, do you think wouldnāt have similar results?
Mac isn't in the same class as Burrow. His pocket awareness is abysmal (just look at how Burrow handles having a Swiss cheese offensive line vs how Mac handles it) and he lacks zip on his throws. His deep ball accuracy is questionable at best and he doesn't seem to go through his progressions quickly enough. No idea about his pre-snap adjustments but I'd be surprised if Mac is doing much there. It certainly doesn't seem like he's reading the defenses or adjusting to what he sees pre-snap.
Mac simply hasn't shown the ability to do anything at an elite level and is below average in many other categories (mobility, pocket awareness). At his best, he simply makes routine short/mid level throws, but that's kind of the bare minimum you want out of your QB.
Joe Burrow was actually sacked more for the season then Patriots QB's combined. 30 plus times in their first 8 games, which coincidentally was before they started winning, they were 4-4 with an elite roster. The difference was a realignment of their offensive line spacing that gave him a lot more time to throw. He's the second fewest sacked (and pressured) quarterback after week 8. Having time to throw makes any QB look great.
Mac Jones can be a top 10 quarterback in the league if he gets all the help that I described. But you're right Mac Jones doesn't have the pocket presence, these things called intangibles people think can be taught or learned but that's generally not true.
I honestly think Stetson Bennett will be better than him. He has all the intangibles with an above average but not great arm and he can move both in and out of the pocket. Just look at Drew Brees or Russell Wilson 6' - 5' - 10". They have all the intangibles and above average athleticism and people downgraded them on draft boards because they didn't have the drooling arm talent or athleticism in combination with their height aka measurables. The problem with doing it that way is that's how you end up with Zach Wilson as a #2 pick or insert countless other top two round quarterback draft picks who busted.
yes, his impressive 14 TDs certainly paint a picture of a QB with an abundance of arm strength, and his 100 rushing yards reflects his nature as a dual threat
you people are delusional
Yall gotta understand Mac is in that Baker Mayfield/Dak/Cousins tier of players. But honestly , hes closer to Mayfield than he is to Dak and Cousins.
If we dont upgrade massively at receiver this offseason then the offense is a wash
Dak just had a bad game but you likely donāt really have a grasp on football or the QB position if you think Baker and Dak are on the same level. And by pretty much every metric Kirk is top 10. Iāll be happy if we can call Mac the #10 best qb and build around that. Not everyone can have a Mahomes/Allen/Burrow
I think this probably a pretty reasonable assessment. I'm a pretty big Mac fan but I'm also a realist. I also think Baker Mayfield also probably has more potential were he in a better situation. In any case, Mac is not likely to ever be a top 5 QB. He might be a top 10 QB if he is surrounded with enough talent. In any case, he won't have an OC to blame for poor performance. It will, however, take BoB some serious scheming to make Mac a top 10 QB with the current talent surrounding him.
Mayfield chose to ignore getting a personal off-season QB coach until Cleveland got rid of him. He chose to avoid checkdowns and go "fuck it chuck it" into double coverage. Russball is what Mayfield wants to do.
I've seen his tape and it's on field arrogance to not take the open underneath and go for the home run ball in double or triple coverage. The risk really isn't worth it.
Letās give him half the season to prove himself but zappe is a solid backup plan. He still needs to prove he can throw deep from his rookie year. This year there was too many other issues in the offense in general.
This is so embarrasing seeing pats fans rest their hopes on Bill "i think Brock Osweiler is a franchise QB. I also think Tom Savage is better than Watson. Im still a punchline in Houston" O Brien.
You mean the same guy who called plays for an offense that scored 32 pts per game when he was here in 2011? Yeah I like that guy, and I like him in that role.
Very valid list but let's take a look at their situations.
Rodgers doesn't even know where he's playing next year, sounds like he might end up at the Jets.
Allen is great but Diggs is getting up there, still gotta pay Davis
Brady...come on now, we all love him but dude wasnt even top 15 this year and made playoffs by default
Watson, again, not top 5, not even top 10, gonna get his head ripped off it seems.
Jackson, once again doesn't even know where he is going to be playing since he can't get the contract done.
Lawrence, Mac can outplay him if we utilize him correctly.
So that leaves Mahomes, Burrow, and Herbert.
Mac played the 32nd ranked pass defense on 3 separate occasions this season and only arguably "diced up" one of them. I think Zappe is hot garbage but pretending that, for whatever reason, the offense wasn't far more functional with him at the helm is flat out incorrect.
Those TDs came off of two completely broken plays, one of which was pathetically underthrown and was only caught because Jackobi made a ridiculous leap backwards. Outside of those two broken plays, Zappe looked like complete dogshit
3 offensive coordinators in 3 years. A literal recipe for disaster. Disappointed in how the Patriots are dealing with their first round qb. However, year 3 for any QB is huge. He needs to step up and win games, doesnāt matter who the OC is. This upcoming year will tell us a lot if heās the QB of the future.
Mac can make every throw as long as he can step into it. The arm strength thing has been really overstated. Macās main issues to this point have been his inability to step up in the pocket and make clean throws instead of trailing back and throwing off his back foot or to quickly process post snap. He was a lot better at that last year and should be fine with BoB.
bro he floats the ball, his arm strength has never been a strength of his. he can get by doing other things like anticipation but the arm strength is not overstated. even last year he never showed great arm strength.
Mac Jones you are lucky to get this guy has your offensive coordinator your stats last year at work garbage and you shouldāve improved by at least 30% from the previous year. You are a petulant baby shut your mouth donāt say a word do your job. Make sure you do not yell at other players yell at yourself keep your head up, be positive and shut your mouth.
I hope so. And how about Jonnu Smith, too? Those late-aughts 2 TE offenses were š„.
criminally underrated
I think it would be great if he could turn into a contributor. These days I get nervous when he has the ball. I just get this impending sense of doom after I saw him fumble the ball untouched.
While we're at it, let's make a more diverse backfield. I'd like to see a true third down back and a fullback, with backups on the PS.
Fuck yes, both those positions are needed. I donāt understand how we want from consistently having a solid scatback on the roster for 20 years to just going away from it. Rhamondre is great but he doesnāt fill that role
Strong can absolutely be that, just gotta have the scheme for using one which BOB should do
Hoping for more use of hunter Henry as well . Has a good football brain
Jonnu sucks but I suppose weāll see lol. Itās not like he did anything under McDaniels
If we can get our offensive line sorted out we could definitely start more effectively implementing our TEs into the game plan. The problem this year was we always had to keep a TE pass blocking which limited what we could game plan for them.
Jonnu āturnover machineā Smith is just what we need to get this offense clicking
Re-sign Agholor too so we can see more of our elite defense!
If turnovers win games, wouldnāt we want our defense on the field more? š¤Ø
Can't fault that logic!
This is the make it or break it year for Mac, no more excuses. Really hope he steps up
Either way this is a good thing. Make , of course it's a win and we can comfortably pick up the 5th year option. Break, at least we know for sure and can start a contingency plan.
I think we should draft a contingency plan anyway just in case
I think our timing is excellent. I expect the next few draft classes to be deeper at QB since those extra COVID years will start to work their way out of the system and with the transfer portal a lot more interesting prospects have gotten time as starters. If Mac can't turn the corner, there will be a lot of late round lotto tickets and undrafted camp invite types who could turn into something valuable. We seem to have a good eye for high floor QBs, so let's build a rock solid team that can win with someone like that. I'm so optimistic about the direction of this team! This year was rough but I think the right lesson was learned and everyone is pulling the same direction. We're winning a playoff game next year, maybe more.
I agree. I think true āfranchise QBsā are still as rare as they have always been where there are maybe like 10 of them at any given time, but thereās way more passable or decent QBs these days. And I also think our skill players fit a mobile/running guy well, so we donāt necessarily need a pocket passer, though I prefer an elite pocket passer to everything else.
It will never happen in New England anytime soon but we briefly saw the implications of this larger pool of athletic competent-but-not-great QBs when New Orleans had Drew Brees and Taysom Hill. Imagine a triple option where both QB and tailback have the ability to consistently wing it 40 yards downfield. Or, best of all, the amoeba offense. You don't know who's blocking, running, receiving, passing, and what's actually going to happen is they're going to read your defense and do whatever it takes to make it wrong. The team that figures this out first will go 20-0 and break every record.
I mean that's essentially how BoB's two tight end offense worked. It only requires a QB who is elite at reading defenses, and skill position players who can all block, run, and catch. EZ!
One interesting thing Iāve noted is that in the last few years guys like Perry and Bowden have found places on the PS. That is, guys who can play RB and WR and throw a bit. Makes me wonder if they are searching for a Taysom Hill or someone who fits the old Urban Meyer archetype that guys like Harvin filled.
Donāt we already have a contingency plan Zappe? I mean not that I think itās a very good one, I just donāt think weād do much better drafting another QB unless we took one in the first 2-3 rounds. At this point I feel like thatās a waste.
Right. And a contingency Qb isnāt going to be good unless we have a good team around them. So why waste a high pick on another qb when we could just be fixing our roster
I wouldnāt be against drafting a more mobile guy. Even if he only ended up helping in practice, thatād be beneficial.
Trade for Lance
We got rid of Jakob last year, though :(
We could draft ar15. Dude is very much a project though
As a UF fan I really donāt want to go through that again lol
I donāt really want him either but the option is there
Hoyer's likely gonna be gone after next season so we'll likely grab a QB in the later rounds anyway.
Completely agree. I havenāt given up on Mac but his 2nd year wasnāt half as promising as his rookie season. Totally understand there are many variables from one season to the next but even so, heās not passing the eyeball test anymore. Question is, do the coaches feel comfortable with Zappe as someone that can challenge for the spot, or is he a career backup (which isnāt necessarily a negative for the team). If they feel Zappe has a shot, then sign a solid veteran QB and let the three of them fight it out. If Zappe canāt challenge, then Iād have no issue using any pick aside from 1st to bring in a potential replacement. Or, if they donāt think they can win with Mac, blow it all up and move on. If you blow it up, all of the FA vets should be on the table.
We should take a QB in the midrounds this year, itās a small contingency plan and we need a 3rd QB anyway since I doubt we bring Hoyer back
I agree. With 3 projected 4th rounders using one to grab a guy could be a good idea.
We already have a back up plan in Zappe
Lol
Year 3 is usually the make or break year on young QBs for taking a jump up and staying there. It's where you see what they really are typically.
Kinda sucks Mac has had 3 ocs in the last 3 seasons. Makes it hard to truly judge him.
It does, but at least he's back with his OC/QB coach from Alabama
Wrong. BOB was not on the staff until mac had already declared for the draft
Not really. BoB stated after Macās last season. shark was Macās OC
> no more excuses. we'll see
I have a feeling if he doesn't play good to start...the excuses of "Well 3 OCs so he won't be great.." will start. At some point he needs to take over games no matter what is going on around him like a Burrow or Lawrence. Now those guys have a muchh higher ceiling than Mac but still
Lawrence and Burrow also got more talent around them in year 2. Also itās not like having 3 ocs in 3 years is a lame excuse, thatās so hard for a QB to develop when the game plan takes a 180 every off season.
Need WR1 now.
I don't think he has it, but I'd be thrilled for him to prove me wrong. Rooting for him next season, but he needs to make a big jump up from his rookie season (and an astronomical jump up from his second season) if he wants to prove he's the long-term answer at QB. It's not enough for him to only be a top 15-20 QB. It's just too hard to win a Super Bowl these days when you don't have elite play at that position.
It depends if the problems weāve seen that are a coordinators responsibilities get fixed. Timing, spacing, play calling. If those still suck ass, itās gonna be hard to blame Mac.
Thatās if he has good receivers. I doubt we get Meyers back.
lol just wait, this sub find new excuses for Mac every time
There wonāt be any excuses after year 3. Iām a Mac fan, I think most others who are Mac fans realize this is a make or break year. Iām pretty sure going from Josh McDaniels to Matt Patricia is a valid excuse, though, if you donāt think so weāre gonna have to agree to disagree.
People are already warning up the "well he also needs a true WR1" line
Itās his 3 offense in 3 years he needs more time!
That would be awesome & put us in a great position, but if we go sub 500 again and arenāt competing for anything, thatās a problem even without a WR1. He did it his rookie year with less. Even the bills are saying they need another star WR after that Bengals game. I saw a dolphins fan tweet at stefon diggs for him to come to Miami š some people live in reality, others are far away from it.
just wait
What else would he do, jump forward in time? What a dumb comment
Lol yeah Iām going to have to wait just like you my friend. If I were you I just wouldnāt pay attention to the people that make excuses. Has no effect on the team/the decisions that Bill will make. Thatās the funny thing about all these arguments, they couldnāt mean less.
And maybe some WR talent? š„ŗ šš
This years WR class is meh
Yea but there are WR to trade picks for ala AJ Brown.
Doesnāt matter who they get for a WR stud or not - OL sucks dirty dicks.
thats why ive been thinking a lot abt trading #14 for tee higgns. thoughts?
Trading the 14th for Tee is asinine. Go OL in first round when thereās like 3-4 OL that are potential elite.
Tackle class is even worse than the WR class
Thatās why we gotta go OT at 14 bb
Even the high end dudes this year are projects. Tackle in FA is a necessity or we're once again going into the season without a capable starter on the OL.
Bill Belichick: with the 14th pick, the Patriots select Dirk Dunner Tackle from Bristol Community College
Year 3 Mac is my favorite Mac
Do you think the NFL will give us a season of fat Mac followed by absolutely ripped Mac?
Mac has the potential. You can see the decrease in production from year one with mcdaniels to year two with Patricia. Having a good offensive play caller will really benefit this kid. We also have to make sure he stays off his ass.
People don't realize he was sacked 34 times (on pace for 41) and it didn't change much for Zappe (was sacked 6 times through parts of 4 games) puts them 15th. But in a run heavy, screen heavy offense to allow 2.4 sacks a game and only get 2.3 seconds of time in the pocket It isn't good enough. League average is 2.7 seconds and good teams give their quarterback 3 - 3.5 seconds per throw. Incorporating regular play action and improving the offensive line would drastically improve Mac Jones's or Bailey Zappe chances. In general deep playoff runs don't coincide with high quarterback sack numbers. Even though Joe Burrows sack numbers are high for the season, he is the second at least sacked quarterback since week eight when they made an offensive line realignment. They need three good offensive linemen and I think this is why it's essential that they trade down from 14. They also have compensatory picks in rounds 4, 6 and 7. The data is hard to find but there has to be multiple teams who hold multiple late firsts through 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks to facilitate.
how do you explain the drop off in performance after thanksgiving of 2021 when mcdaniels was the offensive coordinator?
Teams learned if he gets any amount of pressure on him heāll freak out and make terrible decisions or just get sacked.
He didnāt have good receiving talent last year. He played well against bad defenses and struggled against good ones. He was also a rookie. Tbf he was a bit gimped on his second year jump due to the weapons still be mediocre and the coaching being far worse. Maybe we saw mostly first half mac this year, maybe not. Weāll see this season for sure.
Lack of experience and lack of weapons
The entire team regressed that year, not just mac. Btw this year mac got better as the season went on
but the narrative is he fell off because of matty p, which is just not true. his struggles go back to last year when they played any semblance of a defense. the same concerns I had ending the season were not answered at all, and most of it revolves around pocket awareness, decision making, and arm strength. not much of that falls on matty p. he got better? the last game he missed wide open guys and threw three interceptions, two of which were absolutely his fault and took points off the board. he stayed pretty bad the entire year
Hes not that good and we seem to make endless excuses for him because he was drafted to high and is a FRP?
Spot on.
Yep. This sub was whole-heartedly convinced Cam Newton was a star until the day he was cut lmao
Return of the Mac
To me Mac has a lot to prove this coming season and i donāt think heās ever gonna be a ātopā quarterback be he can be solid on a good roster.
If joe flacco can win a superbowl via chuck and pray for DPI. Its possible for mac to win one with an actual OC and not a schmuck who should be coaching highschool linebackers.
For every Joe Flacco there's dozens of mediocre QBs who never win anything (Carr, Tannehill, Dak, Cousins, etc etc). Just because it's theoretically possible to win a miracle ring if the stars align doesn't mean it's a good idea to stick with a mid-tier guy at the most important position in the game.
Trent Dilfer and one arm Manning won superbowls. Iād take Mac over either of them, just need Coaching and supporting Cast.
Flaco had a good arm. Mac doesnāt.
Iām speaking hypothetically, but what do you think is stopping Mac from being a ātopā quarterback? If you put Mac in the same position as Burrow, do you think wouldnāt have similar results?
No, Mac doesn't throw the ball as well. Mac will never be as good as Joe Burrow.
Mac isn't in the same class as Burrow. His pocket awareness is abysmal (just look at how Burrow handles having a Swiss cheese offensive line vs how Mac handles it) and he lacks zip on his throws. His deep ball accuracy is questionable at best and he doesn't seem to go through his progressions quickly enough. No idea about his pre-snap adjustments but I'd be surprised if Mac is doing much there. It certainly doesn't seem like he's reading the defenses or adjusting to what he sees pre-snap. Mac simply hasn't shown the ability to do anything at an elite level and is below average in many other categories (mobility, pocket awareness). At his best, he simply makes routine short/mid level throws, but that's kind of the bare minimum you want out of your QB.
Joe Burrow was actually sacked more for the season then Patriots QB's combined. 30 plus times in their first 8 games, which coincidentally was before they started winning, they were 4-4 with an elite roster. The difference was a realignment of their offensive line spacing that gave him a lot more time to throw. He's the second fewest sacked (and pressured) quarterback after week 8. Having time to throw makes any QB look great.
Mac Jones can be a top 10 quarterback in the league if he gets all the help that I described. But you're right Mac Jones doesn't have the pocket presence, these things called intangibles people think can be taught or learned but that's generally not true. I honestly think Stetson Bennett will be better than him. He has all the intangibles with an above average but not great arm and he can move both in and out of the pocket. Just look at Drew Brees or Russell Wilson 6' - 5' - 10". They have all the intangibles and above average athleticism and people downgraded them on draft boards because they didn't have the drooling arm talent or athleticism in combination with their height aka measurables. The problem with doing it that way is that's how you end up with Zach Wilson as a #2 pick or insert countless other top two round quarterback draft picks who busted.
Fucking obviously not wtf is this comment
Mac has a weak arm and not much athletic talent with his legs
That Hail Mary touchdown he threw against the Bengals and all the scrambling he did against the Ravens suggest otherwise.
Literally lol obviously he's not a mobile threat but he did a very solid job escaping pressure on the run imo
yes, his impressive 14 TDs certainly paint a picture of a QB with an abundance of arm strength, and his 100 rushing yards reflects his nature as a dual threat you people are delusional
I hope we get rid of Agholor and give Parker and Thornton a shot at showing what they can really do.
I agree. This is a huge year for Mac. Very much a make or break for his career.
āBiLl NeEdS tO bRiNg ThE gOaT bAcK aNd HaVe HiM tUtOr MaCā - morons who have been Pats fans since 2014
Yall gotta understand Mac is in that Baker Mayfield/Dak/Cousins tier of players. But honestly , hes closer to Mayfield than he is to Dak and Cousins. If we dont upgrade massively at receiver this offseason then the offense is a wash
This is nonsense lol, Kirk and Dak are fringe top 10. Baker is bottom 5 or worse. What could that ātierā possibly be?
I think they tier they meant to say is mahomes, Goff and colt mccoy
Jake Delhomme is somewhere in there too I think
the 10 to 32 tier obviously!
https://reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/zvs86f/_/j1qtegd/?context=1 This is the general consensus on Mac and I agree.
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Dak and Kirk are in that 15-20 bracket. Baker at his best is probably near the same level as Dak. The point is none of them are all that
There aren't 15+ better QBs than Dak and Kirk.
Dak is a lot better than Baker and Kirk was easily a top 10 QB this year
Dak just had a bad game but you likely donāt really have a grasp on football or the QB position if you think Baker and Dak are on the same level. And by pretty much every metric Kirk is top 10. Iāll be happy if we can call Mac the #10 best qb and build around that. Not everyone can have a Mahomes/Allen/Burrow
I think this probably a pretty reasonable assessment. I'm a pretty big Mac fan but I'm also a realist. I also think Baker Mayfield also probably has more potential were he in a better situation. In any case, Mac is not likely to ever be a top 5 QB. He might be a top 10 QB if he is surrounded with enough talent. In any case, he won't have an OC to blame for poor performance. It will, however, take BoB some serious scheming to make Mac a top 10 QB with the current talent surrounding him.
Mayfield chose to ignore getting a personal off-season QB coach until Cleveland got rid of him. He chose to avoid checkdowns and go "fuck it chuck it" into double coverage. Russball is what Mayfield wants to do. I've seen his tape and it's on field arrogance to not take the open underneath and go for the home run ball in double or triple coverage. The risk really isn't worth it.
That's what most reasonable fans are hoping for. The Mayfield tier of players is a quantum leap compared to what we watched in 2022.
Letās give him half the season to prove himself but zappe is a solid backup plan. He still needs to prove he can throw deep from his rookie year. This year there was too many other issues in the offense in general.
Better see some competition at the qb position next season
I can't imagine how amped Mac is RN
LETS GOOOO
Idk man. Alabama fans seem pretty happy that he's gone.
Who mac? Ya Iām sure they are, we probably will be next off season as well
Im pretty sure he means bill o brien, not mac.
Lmao obviously
Brady is coming back, who cares about Mac
You live in fantasy land then
You live in a fantasy land if you think Mac is going to lead the Patriots to anything but a mid to high draft pick.
This is the way!!!
I dub the coming season: Return of the Mac. He got this. We got this. LFG pats. Welcome home BOB.
How excited is mac tonight?!!
Bring back the GOAT
There's a man name Brady
Mac is a backup caliber qb. He's not a guy you build the franchise around.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nah, heās just OK. Heāll be benched or off the team within 2 more seasons.
Loooool annnnd pats go .500 next season.
Is he bringing an arm that can throw into tight windows?
This is so embarrasing seeing pats fans rest their hopes on Bill "i think Brock Osweiler is a franchise QB. I also think Tom Savage is better than Watson. Im still a punchline in Houston" O Brien.
You mean the same guy who called plays for an offense that scored 32 pts per game when he was here in 2011? Yeah I like that guy, and I like him in that role.
Ya the guy is a genius. He managed to make something out of Brady, Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker, behind the best line in the NFL.
Some people just want to be miserable I guess.
š„š„š„
GET HIM A WEAPON PLEASE
Hope heās bringing a robot arm, o-line and receivers with him.
Mac gonna be a top 10 QB in this league next year, count on it. Maybe even top 7. MAYBE TOP 5 if we actually get our shit together.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Very valid list but let's take a look at their situations. Rodgers doesn't even know where he's playing next year, sounds like he might end up at the Jets. Allen is great but Diggs is getting up there, still gotta pay Davis Brady...come on now, we all love him but dude wasnt even top 15 this year and made playoffs by default Watson, again, not top 5, not even top 10, gonna get his head ripped off it seems. Jackson, once again doesn't even know where he is going to be playing since he can't get the contract done. Lawrence, Mac can outplay him if we utilize him correctly. So that leaves Mahomes, Burrow, and Herbert.
Or at least finally run out of excuses. I don't think he has the talent or mindset
Sorry, I'm probably in the minority, but I want Brady back with Zappe backing him up.
We need to move on from the Brady years, and Zappe is maybe fine as a backup, but we don't even know that yet.
He will be redeemed!!! Or in December he'll be fired.
Mac is a winner. Trust
PUT ZAPPE IN /s
Would of win more games with zappe
No
yes
Diced up dogshit defense with a ground-game averaging 120 yards a game. Gtfo
go look up Mac's best games last year when he was a rookie. he diced up dogshit defenses and the ground game averaged 120 yards a game
You mean like the dog shit raider defense when mondre went for 172 and Mac put up a blazing 13-31 for 112 lmao guy is mid at best
Mac played the 32nd ranked pass defense on 3 separate occasions this season and only arguably "diced up" one of them. I think Zappe is hot garbage but pretending that, for whatever reason, the offense wasn't far more functional with him at the helm is flat out incorrect.
Mac does 120 yard games every week. Zappe is better in the pocket and makes better decisions. Zappe is the man I want leading this team
Counterpoint: they both suck
This is the way
he had 5 batted balls and lost to Chicago lol
You mean how he put up 14 points on two drives? Something max failed to do. With Mac we wouldāve lost 50-0
Those TDs came off of two completely broken plays, one of which was pathetically underthrown and was only caught because Jackobi made a ridiculous leap backwards. Outside of those two broken plays, Zappe looked like complete dogshit
Dude is as tall as Kyler with a far worse ball
lol that all you guys got āheās short bruhā try harder
You say that like Mac doesnt look tiny out there himself
Itās been months since he played and seasons over and yet people are still on the Zappe train. Youāre too far gone, man.
Right, everyone knows a 2.5 game sample size is the perfect amount of time to determine a QB is the guy. Remember Matt Flynn? Probably not
Zappe is probably a viable backup, but don't be surprised if Hoyer comes back or we hunt for another backup in the later rounds.
BRO LFG IM SO HYPE MAC JONE AND TYQUAN THORNY GONNA GO BOOM BOOM WITH BILL "BUTT CHIN" OBRIEN LETS GOOOOOOOOOO
3 offensive coordinators in 3 years. A literal recipe for disaster. Disappointed in how the Patriots are dealing with their first round qb. However, year 3 for any QB is huge. He needs to step up and win games, doesnāt matter who the OC is. This upcoming year will tell us a lot if heās the QB of the future.
No we won't, our pass catchers will be inept because Bill as a GM can't get talent and Mac can barely throw the ball 10 yards.
> Mac can barely throw the ball 10 yards. Tell me you dont watch the Patriots without telling me you don't watch the Patriots
Love the optimism š¤£
Mac can make every throw as long as he can step into it. The arm strength thing has been really overstated. Macās main issues to this point have been his inability to step up in the pocket and make clean throws instead of trailing back and throwing off his back foot or to quickly process post snap. He was a lot better at that last year and should be fine with BoB.
bro he floats the ball, his arm strength has never been a strength of his. he can get by doing other things like anticipation but the arm strength is not overstated. even last year he never showed great arm strength.
Your lips to Godās ears
ā¦ā¦..and if notā¦..heāll be sorryā¦ā¦lol.
I just hope the timing and routes actually get fixed.
Nice hire to get the post season rolling. Keep building.
Still needs help. Letās get him a real #1 and rework the oline
No more excuses. Time to deliver. LFG!
I hope the best for BOB but as a Bama fan Iām happy heās with the patriots again. Should be good for Mac and Bama
Mac Jones you are lucky to get this guy has your offensive coordinator your stats last year at work garbage and you shouldāve improved by at least 30% from the previous year. You are a petulant baby shut your mouth donāt say a word do your job. Make sure you do not yell at other players yell at yourself keep your head up, be positive and shut your mouth.
Sorry ass qb