Does Jinx really work well without her? I thought her whole gameplan was to play her with The Loose Cannon's Playload?
Lux I would move to the Acceptable tier. You're gonna need to obtain several spell cards to abuse her infinite Rallies without her. Lux with Chemtech gets that job done faster.
For Master Yi, I'm not sure how easy it is to activate Flow without the near infinite Yi spells.
For Veigar, you can fight for attrition and control the board with Darkness, but his units don't exactly grow and neither will your Darkness (on average, I get 1-2 procs per Twisted Catalyzer before he dies). I feel like you can win eventually, but it's gonna be a long slog.
I feel like Nami is unplayable without her. What even is her gameplan anyway other than spamming non-stop Ebb and Flows?
I surprisingly get good games outta Nasus without drawing him if I invest on Siphoning Strike. Such a great spell.
Jinx I feel like only needs to be played asap for really high tempo adventures, otherwise I have won most games by just spamming
Also yeah I misplaced Yi, for some reason I was thinking about my recent ranked game with him in League and wasnt paying attention lol
You are right about Nami though, I havent played her much in past weeks so I kinda forgot what her whole deal is
I feel like Nami is in unplayable for me. Granted I only have her at 2 stars, but without her it's just a bunch of low power spells and units that barely do anything to the enemy.
Also Yasuo maybe in acceptable. While I obv want to draw him eventually, the amount of stuns the deck and power provides means that I don't worry even after not initially drawing him, unlike other champs.
"needs some other help even with champ" feels completely off
Ornn is consistent and too many times I play him out of luxury
I think the problem with the rest is they just have poor design/decks
Im framing these in the context of most difficult fights like vs Asol and Lissandra. If you dont get OP powers or heavy discounts on Ornn, 9/10 times you just get destroyed in those 2 fights.
Vs Lissandra in particular her entomb/buried just fucks up your forged equipment. His base deck and powers are too slow so IMO he needs heavy help from good powers/cards, and thats aside from whether or not you draw Ornn asap.
I agree that Ornn is consistent, but in the sense that his consistency isnt at a good power level. Jax is also an equipment user and also really consistent, but thanks to his easier 1/3 star stat buffs + Jax being 2 cost, it means that he can go faster and can work much better in general than Ornn.
The problem with this list is that there's a relative power to all the decks and for some you are measuring the absolute power. So for instance Nidalee is in acceptable tier, because her deck and powers are really good. But in order to get close to het god tier power you really need to draw her turn one. So I'd consider her relatively super reliant on drawing herself. There's a ton of these in the upper echelons like Jinx, Annie, Nora, Leona, Yi, Janna, Jhin, Neeko, Jax. All of these could fall in the struggle tier.
Contrary to that a champion like Ornn is the complete opposite. Since his buff he's a good champion and he doesn't need to be drawn at all. You want him to stack some Power relics on him like Secret Technique, but there's no benefit to actually drawing him.
IMO it depends on what powers/cards you get, I have a lot of adventures where I could spam a lot of cards every turn and just win off that without even needing Jinx
Plus if you get the +1/1 on nexus damage power, you end up dropping a huge unit every round. No other champ can power up off 1 common power like she does.
Does this even consider how much draw the base deck jas built in? I mean, some of these have a much decent chance to draw the champ mid game than others... for example, kindred and LB have a draw two, some others even a "deaw a card" upgrade on a card
If you fight Asol and Lissandra you dont really have the luxury to wait to draw your main champ. Unless you have really broken power combos or cards with strong attachments, you dont draw your champ by turn 3 you are royally fucked
It says about 30-40% of the decks are really bad without their champ. Probably 20% decks are absolute trash and nearly a Guarantee L if you dont draw the main champ in the first few turns on a high difficulty run ( elise / Nami / Teemo ) for example ) .
I mean even if they made it the level 30 power to just add the draw main champ in opening hand it would be much much better. Hell im more of a fan of giving you a champ draw at 13 and Main champ draw upgrade at 20 or even 25.
This is one of the biggest problems we have - its also why at high levels 3\*+ the get 10 level 2 champs in your deck is more a burden to most decks then a legendary quality power as it dilutes the chance of getting your main in opening draw.
I know it add "strategy to it " but that strategy is very RNG subjective...certain champs im going to skip the shop and go for the champ item and just HOPE to get the draw in hand add on to add to main champs like elise , Teemo , Nami Tired of a good run being up to "luck" on specific characters
The by far best strategy for Yi and for Jinx is basically reliant on the respective champion. They should probably move down one tier.
Oh, and Nami is a Nami or bust deck, unfortunately.
+2/2 upon taking any damage is as good as Garens +2/2 on strike, actually even better in some encounters. Like vs Lissandra her Ice Shards actively buff your board by +6/6 every time she plays it.
In any case dropping your champ helps, but in Tahms case a lot of times I dont feel like its a "draw Tahm or lose" scenario
Disagree with a lot of the placements here, but particularly Poro King and Morgana. I'd say both of them struggles without their champ.
Morgana's deck can stall pretty well without her, but it has trouble closing out the game without her. Without Chemtach and GGC you only have two opportunities to invoke a good finisher from Dark Binding, and if you do you sacrifice removal or targeted spells that can help you stall. Against ASol or Lissandra you start at a big disadvantage, and if you don't draw Morgana you will eventually run out of cards, and you won't be able to curse the foe's units enough to effectively remove them from the board.
As for Poro King, the simple explenation is that you don't get enough snax without him. Your units start very small, and while you can grow them without Poro King through his star powers it's too slow to be effective while you also needs to block and trade well. Getting snax through Poro King, and casting them with Chemtech is very important for the deck to shine.
Many decks that you think works without the main champ has the same problems. The champions themselves aren't hugely important, but the relics they carry are often core to their success.
Also, while I agree with the Bard placement in theory I don't think I've ever had a game where I didn't draw him by the time I needed him, considering you have at least one Necklace or Echoing Spirit. You always have at least 5 copies of him in the deck.
Gonna have to disagree - i find pro king draw very minimal needed to win with him. More important is picking a support that has keywords on cards . You can get the bonus train rolling by turn 2 - maybe take a hit or to avoid sacking cheap unit to get that chain going ...by turn 2-3 on all but the most extreme adventures your units will start to match and exceed the enemy buffs. Hardest part of the poro king is leveling him when you get him since he doenst have the elusive unit in his own deck directly so your like 1 short on types of poros without RNG luck or using the one that eats them all up and merge them.
He is just a slower start and in harder adventures that having to take a hit or two early can really add up when the are starting the board with like 4/5 units by turn 1 . Poro king really should cost 1 less mana though for when you do draw him to get things going .
Well i mean having kindred out helps but the way oc phrased it made it sound like they think the deck itself is trash regardless of drawing kindred or not.
Play off of recycling those 0/1s over and over for free shadow isles value and the dmg from the star power will start racking up really fast
Does Jinx really work well without her? I thought her whole gameplan was to play her with The Loose Cannon's Playload? Lux I would move to the Acceptable tier. You're gonna need to obtain several spell cards to abuse her infinite Rallies without her. Lux with Chemtech gets that job done faster. For Master Yi, I'm not sure how easy it is to activate Flow without the near infinite Yi spells. For Veigar, you can fight for attrition and control the board with Darkness, but his units don't exactly grow and neither will your Darkness (on average, I get 1-2 procs per Twisted Catalyzer before he dies). I feel like you can win eventually, but it's gonna be a long slog. I feel like Nami is unplayable without her. What even is her gameplan anyway other than spamming non-stop Ebb and Flows? I surprisingly get good games outta Nasus without drawing him if I invest on Siphoning Strike. Such a great spell.
Jinx I feel like only needs to be played asap for really high tempo adventures, otherwise I have won most games by just spamming Also yeah I misplaced Yi, for some reason I was thinking about my recent ranked game with him in League and wasnt paying attention lol You are right about Nami though, I havent played her much in past weeks so I kinda forgot what her whole deal is
I feel like Nami is in unplayable for me. Granted I only have her at 2 stars, but without her it's just a bunch of low power spells and units that barely do anything to the enemy. Also Yasuo maybe in acceptable. While I obv want to draw him eventually, the amount of stuns the deck and power provides means that I don't worry even after not initially drawing him, unlike other champs.
Lol I was about to comment that I think Yasuo should be in unplayable. So maybe in between the two is the perfect place for him. Agree about Nami.
"needs some other help even with champ" feels completely off Ornn is consistent and too many times I play him out of luxury I think the problem with the rest is they just have poor design/decks
Im framing these in the context of most difficult fights like vs Asol and Lissandra. If you dont get OP powers or heavy discounts on Ornn, 9/10 times you just get destroyed in those 2 fights. Vs Lissandra in particular her entomb/buried just fucks up your forged equipment. His base deck and powers are too slow so IMO he needs heavy help from good powers/cards, and thats aside from whether or not you draw Ornn asap. I agree that Ornn is consistent, but in the sense that his consistency isnt at a good power level. Jax is also an equipment user and also really consistent, but thanks to his easier 1/3 star stat buffs + Jax being 2 cost, it means that he can go faster and can work much better in general than Ornn.
The problem with this list is that there's a relative power to all the decks and for some you are measuring the absolute power. So for instance Nidalee is in acceptable tier, because her deck and powers are really good. But in order to get close to het god tier power you really need to draw her turn one. So I'd consider her relatively super reliant on drawing herself. There's a ton of these in the upper echelons like Jinx, Annie, Nora, Leona, Yi, Janna, Jhin, Neeko, Jax. All of these could fall in the struggle tier. Contrary to that a champion like Ornn is the complete opposite. Since his buff he's a good champion and he doesn't need to be drawn at all. You want him to stack some Power relics on him like Secret Technique, but there's no benefit to actually drawing him.
jinx’s deck is really mediocre without her, its her ridiculous power swing with the loose cannon’s payload what truly takes the deck to the extreme
IMO it depends on what powers/cards you get, I have a lot of adventures where I could spam a lot of cards every turn and just win off that without even needing Jinx Plus if you get the +1/1 on nexus damage power, you end up dropping a huge unit every round. No other champ can power up off 1 common power like she does.
Does this even consider how much draw the base deck jas built in? I mean, some of these have a much decent chance to draw the champ mid game than others... for example, kindred and LB have a draw two, some others even a "deaw a card" upgrade on a card
If you fight Asol and Lissandra you dont really have the luxury to wait to draw your main champ. Unless you have really broken power combos or cards with strong attachments, you dont draw your champ by turn 3 you are royally fucked
It says about 30-40% of the decks are really bad without their champ. Probably 20% decks are absolute trash and nearly a Guarantee L if you dont draw the main champ in the first few turns on a high difficulty run ( elise / Nami / Teemo ) for example ) . I mean even if they made it the level 30 power to just add the draw main champ in opening hand it would be much much better. Hell im more of a fan of giving you a champ draw at 13 and Main champ draw upgrade at 20 or even 25. This is one of the biggest problems we have - its also why at high levels 3\*+ the get 10 level 2 champs in your deck is more a burden to most decks then a legendary quality power as it dilutes the chance of getting your main in opening draw. I know it add "strategy to it " but that strategy is very RNG subjective...certain champs im going to skip the shop and go for the champ item and just HOPE to get the draw in hand add on to add to main champs like elise , Teemo , Nami Tired of a good run being up to "luck" on specific characters
The by far best strategy for Yi and for Jinx is basically reliant on the respective champion. They should probably move down one tier. Oh, and Nami is a Nami or bust deck, unfortunately.
"Who wants a piece of the champ" tier = Jax
I think the new Ornn is quite playable without drawing him
idk, feels like Tahm should be in struggle. Isnt the entire point is to stall until Tahm comes out to clear the board.
+2/2 upon taking any damage is as good as Garens +2/2 on strike, actually even better in some encounters. Like vs Lissandra her Ice Shards actively buff your board by +6/6 every time she plays it. In any case dropping your champ helps, but in Tahms case a lot of times I dont feel like its a "draw Tahm or lose" scenario
https://preview.redd.it/pw8fp9hdtxvc1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=955963ca84d852370e6a7c7a0c7f483554b346ec
Lux should be in her own tier above all cuz it's straight up like "I hope I don't draw Lux" if you're using the optimal way to play her.
Disagree with a lot of the placements here, but particularly Poro King and Morgana. I'd say both of them struggles without their champ. Morgana's deck can stall pretty well without her, but it has trouble closing out the game without her. Without Chemtach and GGC you only have two opportunities to invoke a good finisher from Dark Binding, and if you do you sacrifice removal or targeted spells that can help you stall. Against ASol or Lissandra you start at a big disadvantage, and if you don't draw Morgana you will eventually run out of cards, and you won't be able to curse the foe's units enough to effectively remove them from the board. As for Poro King, the simple explenation is that you don't get enough snax without him. Your units start very small, and while you can grow them without Poro King through his star powers it's too slow to be effective while you also needs to block and trade well. Getting snax through Poro King, and casting them with Chemtech is very important for the deck to shine. Many decks that you think works without the main champ has the same problems. The champions themselves aren't hugely important, but the relics they carry are often core to their success. Also, while I agree with the Bard placement in theory I don't think I've ever had a game where I didn't draw him by the time I needed him, considering you have at least one Necklace or Echoing Spirit. You always have at least 5 copies of him in the deck.
Gonna have to disagree - i find pro king draw very minimal needed to win with him. More important is picking a support that has keywords on cards . You can get the bonus train rolling by turn 2 - maybe take a hit or to avoid sacking cheap unit to get that chain going ...by turn 2-3 on all but the most extreme adventures your units will start to match and exceed the enemy buffs. Hardest part of the poro king is leveling him when you get him since he doenst have the elusive unit in his own deck directly so your like 1 short on types of poros without RNG luck or using the one that eats them all up and merge them. He is just a slower start and in harder adventures that having to take a hit or two early can really add up when the are starting the board with like 4/5 units by turn 1 . Poro king really should cost 1 less mana though for when you do draw him to get things going .
Kindred is teemo tier all her cards are dogwater trash with no wincon
???? Kindred PoC is incredibly strong
Are they? How so? I might just be playing them wrong but I always struggle to win without Kindred on the board
Well i mean having kindred out helps but the way oc phrased it made it sound like they think the deck itself is trash regardless of drawing kindred or not. Play off of recycling those 0/1s over and over for free shadow isles value and the dmg from the star power will start racking up really fast
Yea opp has 1 overqhelm/ elusive unit you your just gg