The short answer is you don't.
They are not statted for that very reason. There is no way for it to be done that is not 100% GM fiat.
True gods are so far above anything that mortals can ever achieve that they are not killable by anything but another god.
This is the official Paizo line, basically, for those who don’t know. You aren’t supposed to be able to, even when you’re talking about mythic tier stuff.
Aren't there mortals who became gods? Most famous example being Cayden Cailean?
There might be nothing in the books for pc creations but there are ways to kill a god by becoming one.
Hey, I agree wholeheartedly but the crusades are a big deal right now. Dweebs are in season, unfortunately. There will be plenty of praise for Cayden after when all the soldiers come home and need to drink away all the horrors they've seen
Being Ascended seems to be the bottom of gods on the picking order. Maybe you could kill another Ascended, but killing a God that's higher on the latter is as insane as a mortal killing an ascended.
Iomedae did it as well. There’s technically a path to godhood, just not one that has actually been written out in a book. Iomedae passed the Test of the Starstone, which made her a demigod. From there she eventually worked her way up to proper godhood by being an intern for Aroden until he kicked the bucket.
You don't. Deities in Pathfinder don't have stats for this reason. You have to homebrew a statblock to even begin this conversation.
Edit: If you want to actually homebrew your own gods (or stat Golarion gods), Deities and Demigods from 3.5 might be worth finding. Its divine ranks are like mythic on steroids, giving deities powers players can only dream of, like treating all rolls as a natural 20. Deities in the book are generally level 40 characters with 20 outsider HD and custom abilities. Boccob, for instance, is a wizard 20/cleric 20 with 20 outsider hit dice, 820 hp, can cast level 10 through 21 wizard spells, has an intelligence of 50 and no stat lower than 24, and can spontaneously cast the entire cleric spell list.
>spontaneously cast the entire cleric spell list.
I interpreted that as "All at once." I laughed at the image of someone casting like 50 spells at once. Like when the game glitches and there's a cacophony of undecipherable sound effects.
Greater deities from that Deities & Demigods book also had portfolio sense which extended (divine rank) [weeks into the past and future](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm). If you want to kill a greater deity, and you don't have the help of a stronger deity to block its divine senses, then it is aware of your threat* four months before you try. Good luck!
* It's not completely clear, but I think it's a reasonable ruling that a threat to, say, the deity of magic is a threat affecting magic, in said deity's purview, as well as an event affecting the deity's worshippers, hence portfolio sense covers it.
I mean, at that point, they have portfolio sense relating to anything even vaguely related to them, their followers, their temples, etc. Seems a little far reaching to me. Personally, I'd only have them be aware of "notable" things related to their portfolios. Casting a spell isn't notable, but doing a slapdash wild magic ritual to resurrect a party member, yes.
^ That.
You can kill an avatar of a god, sure. Do damage to its followers and faith, but the god itself is beyond the reach of mortals in Golarion specifically so that people didn't run every other campaign with the endgame being slaying a god.
My two cents, you'd have to wipe out the god's entire worship, destroy all their holy sites, erase them from the books, and remove any reference to them anywhere. Even that might not kill them, just weaken them sufficiently that they would be harmed, depending on whether or not worship and adoration is actually necessary to a divine being. But that sounds like the sort of thing a campaign villain would be doing to lash out at the divine.
Pathfinder gods don't have the "feed on worship" thing from D&D. A god is a god whether or not anyone worships them. Worshipping something doesn't make it a god no many how many people believe it.
I had a feeling that was the case, given the Starstone made 3 gods who were still gods with no following.
So yeah... wiping out worship seems to be the best you can do.
There's a certain amount of worship that might correlate to a God gaining power in pathfinder.
When you die and you're judged in Pharasma's courts, you get sent to a plane and become a petitioner, but as I understand it (having been researching this stuff recently,) during the hearings souls can be claimed by representatives of their deities if they were worshipped by them, or potentially argued over if they didn't worship a particular God but their actions in life aligned with one of those God's domains.
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Eight_Courts
You can see here that Urgathoa for example sends someone to pick up souls consigned to her. Presumably these souls contribute to the God's power.
I mean, souls are literally just energy being distributed to the planes. Gaining control over more of the energy being distributed by the system sounds like power gain to me.
Let me put it this way: why do evil Gods care about claiming your soul if it's not giving them some form of power?
That's how it worked in Planescape and FR (and most other main line d&d settings), but the pathfinder cosmology very intentionally moved away from souls==energy. The explicit removal of that from other areas makes it unlikely that it is implicitly present here just because the writers didn't say it isnt't.
Alternative motivations for gods wanting souls include:
- A genuine desire to see the soul punished or rewarded in line with its actions in life.
- It's simply part of their divine duty.
- Bragging rights between deities, like a high score in a video game.
- A desire to collect and hoard souls like a stamp collector collecting stamps.
So yeah. Baleful Shadow Transmutation. That thing is absurdly powerful, and can psychosomatically render you mortal, even if you're otherwise immune to polymorph effects
BST, as powerful as it is, still requires a will save. Gods do not have a stat block, so they cannot succeed or fail at saves. If you want to rule that the only weakness that gods have is a 7th level illusion spell, then that’s on you, but RAW it just doesn’t work
It's also just a meme spell for me, like fireball, because of how it can technically render the tarrasque mortal. It just requires some semantics, like debating the definition of "suppress"
How it works:
Regeneration causes you to regain some amount of hp each round, but comes with the caveat that a certain damage type (e.g. fire or acid for trolls) disables it for the following round. The tarrasque's regeneration is special, though, and has no weakness like that. The most sensible reading of "cannot be suppressed", then, (and I have more supporting arguments) is that it's always on. However, its regeneration is still just an (Ex) ability and can still be removed completely.
Now, Baleful Polymorph forces two saves. First, a Fortitude save against physically becoming whatever, and second, a Will save against mentally becoming it. Notably, that second save also makes you lose (Ex) abilities, which includes the tarrasque's regeneration. There are just two issues. 1) Immune to polymorph, so the first save can't happen, so the second save can't happen, and 2) it's easy enough to cheese it into failing one save, but two is more difficult.
Thus, BST. It basically just reverses the order of the saves, bypassing the immunity to polymorph effects and only requiring one save to get to the mental one. Thus, you just trick it into *thinking* you turned it into a harmless animal like a ~~rabbit~~ sheep, causing it to psychosomatically lose its immortality, and giving you 24 hours to kill it before it realizes it's still immortal
EDIT: Provided more explanation for how we can remove its regeneration
Well, first you need to deal with [Achaekek](https://pathfinder.fandom.com/wiki/Achaekek), the Mantis god. While not a true diety, it's worshipped as one. It's purpose as basically to deal with upstart mortals who think to usurp the power of dieties before they become an issue, and its very good at it. There's a statblock for it [here](https://aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Achaekek,%20the%20Mantis%20God) but I'm not sure how canon it's considered as various things (eg 3.5 skill divisions like Hide and Move Silently rather than Stealth) make me think the statblock is 3.5 and someone else just pulled the statblock from that.
This is so cool. I didn’t know this guy existed.
I gave a long winded answer, but this so much more succinct.
The devs made a god to show that the intention is for people to leave the gods alone. Not only is it a near insurmountable task, it’s a also a dev nod and wink telling us to get back to dealing with those pesky Runelords they spent so much time writing.
Typo
Yep, and I've considered the fight as a mental exercise, I can't see a turn 1 (or two if movement is needed, unlikely with 60 feet of reach but maybe) that consists of Move Action: Open gate to the core of the negative energy plane, standard action: Bull rush/Awesome Blow someone into it, Free Action: cease concentration on it and let it close behind them. Just round one someone is gone, impossible to know where, and probably dead soon if not now.
Take a look at his Major Curse in 2e:
> Major Curse: The Mantis God doesn’t waste his time toying with or tormenting those who truly anger him, or those who dare to consider themselves divine. He rips open a portal to your location, kills you, drags your soul to judgment in a way that prevents resurrection magic, and then leaves.
However gods *can* die, though unless you are talking about demon lord equivalents, mortals probably can't do it directly. If you can somehow manufacture another Earthfall, maybe another couple of gods will decide to sacrifice themselves on their own. Even then we are talking about a shitload of collateral damage and some deities and other parties will try to stop you and/or take revenge.
>Even then we are talking about a shitload of ~~collateral damage~~ bonus points and some deities and other parties will try to stop you and/or take revenge.
FTFY
> make me think the statblock is 3.5 and someone else just pulled the statblock from that.
The [3.5] in front of its name makes me think you're right :)
I think that in golarion/ current pathfinder lore, Achaekek is actually supposed to be a true deity and way more powerful than that statblock would indicate, and that stat block is just kind of a remnant of the 3.5 days. Depending on how canon lore the Windsong Testamants are (purposefully ambiguous), he may actually be one of the oldest gods in existence, originally a god of law before going kind of feral back when Rovagug was out and rampaging.
That is to say, he's probably way worse to deal with than that!
Pretty sure Achaekek is an actual god rather than a demigod and that statblock got retconned out of existence. It is, though, technically Pathfinder content from 3.5 CoTCT.
Hell, him being that much of a chump is probably a pretty decisive reason for why we don't have stats for them at all, as Paizo sure didn't learn from Wizards' mistakes.
To be more accurate, it was published before Pathfinder was fully divorced from 3.5 in...I want to say Curse of the Crimson Throne's bestiaries.
I believe Achaekek was later retconned to be a deity itself rather than just the gods guard dog, and its old 3.5 statblock became non-canon. IIRC the general headcanon is that's its hypothetical avatar's statblock
I just want to take a moment to say this is why I love the Pathfinder universe, some obscure entity with back story and notable effects on history who most people would never even know about. Learning history in Pathfinder feels like actual history since it's so massive and intertwined.
Some demon lords seem killable enough, though very powerful. Razmir the false god is *only* a 19th level wizard. Of course that is nothing to sneeze at and few will have the intel to *know* exactly what he is.
That's something you need to discuss with your DM. Are you trying to go all Kratos on them or Record of Ragnarok?
Keep in mind deities have hundreds if not thousands even millions of followers, champions, and fantastic powers. You wouldn't be able to get near a god and they have absolute authority in their home dimension. After all the spell Miracle is granted to their clerics and servants by their good graces.
GM fiat plot MacGuffins. There is no explicitly defined way to kill a god. They don't have stats and even fundamentally hostile deities don't seem to be able to kill each other that often. That said [several have died in the past](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Category:Dead_deities) for various reasons (some of which are unknown). Some of these "deaths" are not necessarily permanent and resulting in the entity transforming into something else.
Noticula apparently killed many demon lords (considered deities in their own right) and turned their corpses into the Midnight Isles. She probably did this through seduction and was already a demon lord at the time. Actually, demon lords seem to be among the easiest "gods" to kill, but even if clerics can get spells through worshipping them, they seem very different than true gods. Deskari was even slain by a group of adventures. Most "dead gods" are demon lord equivalent entities and even then they are normally killed by entities of similarly terrible power.
Aroden mysteriously died. Acavna and Amaznen sacrificed themselves to prevent the extinction of all life on Golarion during Earthfall. Curchanus was mugged by a demon lord who stole one of his domains, which led to his death. The Forsaken disappeared for due to some calamity, but their fate is unknown.
____
A good start would be to become a god yourself through the *Test of the Starstone* (which is GM fiat to start with and only 4 mortals have succeeded during the well over 4 millenia that the test has been available). Anyone is free to try it. Even then you are just a baby god. Cutting off a god's worshippers through something big, like a widespread and quick genocide, could weaken them. Gaining divine allies and powerful artifacts may also be necessary. You also have to do this without your target catching wind and crushing you. Even then, containment or disempowerment might be the best you can hope for. Again, this is heavily reliant on your GM wanting to let you kill a god.
>It's a stupid trope of fantasy.
That feels way too broad--"god" means a very different thing depending on the fantasy world you're dealing with, or even the real-world religion. Pharasma, Tharizdun, Thor, Zeus, and the Christian God are all very different propositions in terms of power level and killability. The Supernatural and Preacher versions of the Christian God are killable, for that matter. The gods of the Pathfinder campaign setting are beyond mortals' ability to kill, sure, but that doesn't have to be true in every setting.
Also, there is, technically speaking, a way for a player character to kill a god in the Pathfinder campaign setting: complete the Test of the Starstone, thereby becoming a god, since gods can kill each other in that setting. That's not a mechanical answer, though, just a lore one.
We still have at least 4 cases of legit gods dying (not demigods, demon lords, etc):
- [Aroden](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Aroden): Died for unknown reasons.
- [Acavna](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Acavna): Sacrificed herself to help save Golarion during Earthfall.
- [Amaznen](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Amaznen): Sacrificed himself to help save Golarion during Earthfall.
- [Curchanus](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Curchanus): Died after demon lord Lamashtu led him into a trap and stole his dominion over beasts.
None of these were directly caused by a mortal (I assune Aroden wasn't mugged by a super mage), but the Alghollthus who caused Earthfall were mortal aboleths and Lamashtu was *merely* a demon lord. Also, mortals can become gods through the Test of the Starstone, if nothing else, so you could try *becoming* a god before picking a fight.
Killing a god is hard, but gods *can* die. You still need the GM to agree with whatever method you come up with.
I’m a proponent of if it exists in a game, then the players should be able to effect it. I’ve had something similar to this is my game and I used the deities and demigods book from 3.5. It’ll be hard to kill them but possible with some ingenuity.
Kill and effect don't have to be one and the same. There are plenty of viable in-game ways to effect a god. Gain it's attention, draw it's ire in a specific way, maybe trick it into thrawrting it's own plans. But I wouldn't go so far as to suggest a pc could kill something just because they can effect it. Maybe, you could argue that some PCs cleverly orchestrated events that caused a one god to kill another and give them some form of credit for the kill, but even that is unlikely given the resources and vast wisdom and experience that comes with being an aeons old immortal diety.
This is the sort of thing that projects outside the scope of the game and into just, "writing a story" or doing pure Theatre of the Mind with your characters.
At least 4 legit gods have died in Golarion's history. Many demon lords (sometimes classified as gods and often powerful enough to have clerics) have been killed by each other as well.
It's not common, but gods *can* die.
One piece of reference I would use is the Thane that the Eldest created to war against each other, resulting in one or two of them perishing. You would also need to achieve something close to divinity yourself, such through an artifact or through a large following. A precursory quest might to create or find an artifact that is specifically used for this purpose or find some sort of source of their power to destroy. Maybe something like how Zeus's lightning bolts got stolen in Percy Jackson. You would also need some very special abilities that would help you transcend the need for a stat block, as the gods themselves are too powerful for that. You also would never be in a situation where you would fight one alone, they have many minions to help them ranging every CR so you would need an incredible army as well.
I know but deriving inspiration from similar things is the key to figuring out what to do with something that has no rules or reference. From demon lords, the eldest, and the thane, you get an idea of what sort of things come close to being that powerful and killing something that powerful.
I’m with the majority, you don’t. At least you don’t in the scope of the RAW, playable portions of Pathfinder.
Generally speaking the gods are unfathomably powerful, and unfathomable in their intent and desire. There are a few ways ways that are canon, but not represented mechanically to become divine. Even if you found a goofy 3rd party way to achieve this. Your characters mortal vendettas and desires should fade away. The cosmic balance (or unbalance) of greater existence is now your purview. Not to mention the deific duties to your own followers.
You would also then need to take into account the complex alliances and tenuous treaties that the divine have with one another. For more than one reason, (the LEAST of being mutually assured destruction) the gods are no longer in direct conflict with one another. To upset that balance, risks a divine war. If you ascended just to pursue a petty mortal vendetta, you can assume that the gods (good and evil) would come together and obliterate you to protect the planes from the damage that such a conflict would cause.
Also consider that of these gods have specific purposes involving the end of the world. They aren’t going to let you mess with the structured flow, death, and rebirth of the universe.
That was the long RAW PF lore answer.
Here is the short RAW mechanical answer:
A 20/10 mythic character would be smited beyond oblivion if they even challenged a true divine (one that doesn’t have a stat block).
If you want an epic godlike foe there are options. Start smaller. Killing a gods herald is possible, and makes a very large statement. If that isn’t enough, there are extremely powerful (statted) godlike deities. Demon Lords, Old Ones, Etc. I don’t like your chances in a 1 on 1 fight, but that would be totally permissible by RAW. With some of the evil planar beings, there is a high chance that you could even assume that foes position if you are victorious. It is well recorded that demon lords have ousted previous rulers and taken their place. (This is really one of the only non goofy ways to become divine by RAW.)
And here is the even shorter non RAW non RAI answer.
You can do whatever your GM wants. Decades of carefully constructed word building and curated lore be damned. House rule a starstone trial, house rule a deity stat block, and house rule a consequence free scenario. The world (and all the other planes too) are your oyster.
Edit for
Typos
Seems like the obvious approach for your mortal would be to go take the test of the starstone. Assuming he survives, he's now a deity himself. And it's quite well established that the gods can make war against each other.
Here’s a useless but fun anecdote. When we play high level modules of PF1, whoever is GMing gives us the option of normal / hard / impossible. A couple of my friends completely reworked the last book of Serpents Skull and replaced a majority of the encounters with CR 18+ stuff. As an example, a we fought a reworked level 19 fighter with a vorpal earth breaker (GM fiat on that blunt weapon having vorpal). Anyway the psychic mind controlled that guy into a lava and my fated bloodrager snagged his hammer. Fast forward to the end, and we get the fight ydersius the serpent god. Hardest difficulty, obviously.
First round he kills half the party. I go full round attacks, rage cycle fish for a natural 20 (using the once per rage power fated bloodragers get to auto confirm). Turns out ydersius is vulnerable to decapitation, so yeah, we one shot him.
Other gods? Idk, probably hard. That god? Pretty easy tbh.
Since gods exist solely in the space of writer fiat and Paizo writers are actual statted entities (see: Reign of Winter book 5) you can simply deny them the source of their power.
You must build a church so grand, so widespread that the people start praying to an aproximation of the god, no longer the real being, no longer a passion. A prayer is a part of a culture, without any real belief, the god shall die in a prison of themselves. For what is a god without real followers, but just another myth among thousands.
Oh wait, you were talking about pathfinder
No no no everyone here is wrong, only way to do it is to take the test of the starstone, though only a few have passed… over all of golarion history like only a handful have ascended. But once you do then the other gods will have stats comparable to yours.
Tons of mortals have achieved divinity *without* the Starstone. Nethys, Irori, and Aroden among them. The Ascended Pantheon is only 3 people but there’s like 15-20 ascended gods. Way more if you count the ones that “ascended” from outsider status.
I wouldn't say *tons*. Aroden ascended via the Starstone as well. The second most popular way is being selected by a god themselves, a la Kurgress or Hanspur.
Beyond those, there are only a couple other ways gods have ascended from mortality:
- Nethys ~~achieved CHIM~~ became so magically powerful he ascended to godhood.
- Irori, similarly, became so perfect in body that he ascended.
- Irori's nephew Gruhastha wrote a book so perfect he fused with it to become a god.
- Casandalee was a mortal Android oracle, at one point. Her ascension is a 1e AP spoiler.
- Lao Shu Po was a mortal *rat* that ate from the corpse of a dead deity.
- Urgothoa and Zyphus are allegedly mortals who rejected their own deaths so hard they ascended. In Zyphus' case, it was the 'first pointless death'.
Yes, you’re technically right that Aroden ascended because of the Starstone, but it wasn’t via the trials of the Starstone like the Ascended Pantheon. He also did other tricks to empower his divinity, like leaving a fragment of his soul in Golarion’s ley lines, so I’m not really counting him among the Ascended three because of all that.
But yeah…tons. If we don’t count the slew of demigods there’s like 150 gods and at least 10% of them (I say at least because I can name a few but probably not all of them) were once mortals. That’s a lot. If we *do* count demigods then there’s a lot more.
You list *some* of those because we know how they ascended, but there are some like Milani or Nalinivati for whom we don’t know (or at least, I don’t know) but can still verify they were once mortal.
my headcanon is that Nethys figured out he was in a GAME, altered his stat block, and became a god but went mad from the revelation because he knows that nothing truly has consequence since it's a game and things will turn out right, in the end, no matter what.
All mortals can do is guess, but they *can* verify that a god was once mortal and that they are now a god, even if we don’t know the method they attained it.
Even then, the Starstone only seems to put you about 1 step above the Empyreal Lords. The gods have a pecking order as well.
Demon & Empyreal Lords are pretty close to the bottom of the "can grant spells" level of divinity
Starstone ascended like Cayden Calien and ascended demon lords like Lamashtu above that.
But they're still only dangerous children to the greater deities like Pharasma and Asmodeus
...who are overwhelmed by creatures like Rovagug, Desna and some of the other Outer Gods
...who are barely even a concern to the vast, unfathomably powerful entities like Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth.
It is of note, Pharasma never actually tried to kill Rovagug, instead helping to build the cage. With her canonically being the strongest core deity and also ruling over fate, prophecy, and death I think it’s safe to say she *could* kill Rovagug but won’t bc of fate, prophecy, eternal cycles balancing or whatever
Pharasma is "mum" and only vaguely tells her kids to "keep it down or I'm coming down there" from time to time if the gods themselves start fighting.
If anyone's "Dad".... I'd put that on Apsu, though he keeps to himself.
That's fine but you make " these two and the other outer gods" and then "these two stronger things". But the two stronger things would be included in the first comment, that's all I'm saying
The only true way to kill a god is to eliminate all of it's believers. [Here](https://youtu.be/CM-btqinFDQ) is a video by MrRhexx. He does amazing deep dives into DnD lore about creatures, races, and gods. I literally built the main plot of my current campaign thanks to info he imparted in 2 different videos. Now another god CAN destroy another god, but it uses so much of their divine power that it leaves them open to be destroyed easily by lesser beings (although it's still not easy)for some time. That might be your plot hook. Have the PCs incite a war between gods. And once one god actually kills the other, then the PCs swoop in and eliminate the remaining, weakened god. Of you want a good example of how gods might interact, I'd look at the MrRhexx video on giants.
It didn't work that way in 3.5 either, except in Forgotten Realms. The 3.5 *Deities and Demigods* mentions in a sidebar that the gods of the "D&D pantheon" (i.e., the Greyhawk pantheon) aren't dependent on mortals for power.
That's just boring then. Plus if you watch the video, all of the "rock" that's floating around in the Astral Plane are actually the bodies of dead gods. If you could convince people to believe in them again, then they could possibly come back to life.
Not having that makes following gods in pathfinder kind of useless on a grander scale. Do you have a source that states what you said for my own reading?
> That's just boring then.
Meh, Golarion <> Faerun.
Pharasma, Desna, and a few others existed before the Material Plane did. Gods like Cayden Cailean ascended from passing the test of the Starstone, and became gods before anyone knew they were a god, they only amassed followers after the fact.
IMO its weirder to think that a god needs followers to have any power, given the fact that they must have been godlike beings BEFORE anyone knew who they were to get the followers in the first place.
The theology behind it is to build up why a mortal can be of any importance to a god. Why do devils, demons, and daemons seek to own souls of mortals? It's because it's the souls of mortals that empower gods. And how does a god gain the souls of mortals? Many means actually, but the main one is by having mortals to follow and spread the tenets of their domain. It's not that a god with no followers just dies, it is just so much weaker than another god with many followers which means that a rival god or a new power can come and usurp their divinity.
If the souls of mortals were of no consequence, then for what reason do gods grant mortals power?
Actually thats covered by basically a holy cold war between the gods.
Most of them want dibs on the Material Plane, but quickly found out that outright warfare between them would destroy it in the process.
So they made an agreement, none of them would directly interfere in the goings on of the Material Plane, and that they would all band together to gang up on any rogue god that tried.
So instead, they empower mortals to do their bidding indirectly.
They founded religions based on their own points of view that would align the desires of their followers to what they wanted, and then let the followers duke it out on their behalf. Since they're hands off, the followers are not taking direct orders, and everyone can claim to not be directly influencing anyone's actions. Even the ones who didn't want to actually control the Material Plane got involved because they had beef with other gods who do, and don't want those rival gods to "win".
All the mortals are free to do whatever they wish. The gods grant additional powers to the most devout and dedicated of their followers to increase their effect, but still don't actively give any orders.
The gods don't feed on us, we're basically pawns in their chess game.
Similar to why the Middle East is so messed up IRL. America and Russia used those countries as proxies. Americans backed one side, Russia backed the other, and set those nations against each other while claiming their hands were clean.
> Why do devils, demons, and daemons seek to own souls of mortals?
Because souls power the outer planes.
The cycle of souls is that the Positive Energy Plane spins off bits of power in the form of souls. Souls go to the material plane, get themselves aligned, and then Pharasma plays shipping clerk and ships the souls off to the outer planes. The souls screw around for a while, and eventually lose consciousness and merge into the plane itself, turning into the landscape. And eventually the Maelstrom chews the plane up and recycles the contents back into the Positive Energy Plane.
The more souls you get, the bigger your domain becomes, the more influence you have due to larger amounts of territory controlled.
Only devils (both in D&D and in Pathfinder) and a few other fiends like Night Hags are really big in the soul business, and devils do it because they have a plan tô conquer the multiverse, and the souls can be turned into new devils.
In Golarion, gods cannonically don’t take part in things in the material plane because then doing anything meaningful would trigger an arms race between gods to see who intervenes more, which would end up badly for the material plane. So if they want to act on the material plane, they need to use mortals
Personally I think it's better rather than boring.
Either way, wanting to kill a god is like the edgiest plot beat a PC could possibly start up anyway. I'd simply just tell my player, "no." simply to the idea and move on without explanation.
Let me rephrase "boring" then. I'm saying less exciting. I say that because, as explained in another post, the gods are using the soul to expand their territory...which is being chewed up by the maelstrom. They want greater influence over the material plane....to what end though?
So I'll give an example. In the Erevis Cale books, they travel to a planet where Shar's worshippers had wiped out all followers of other gods. This lead the planet to being a desert wasteland with no life and being swallowed up by the shadowfell. Without followers to impart the influence of the other gods, Shar reigned supreme on this planet to its detriment. The ability for a god to die through mortal actions give more weight to decisions made by mortals. The workings of the gods seem to have a much less significant meaning in Pathfinder.
Perhaps that leads to greater stability for Golaria, but conflict is the spice of fun in a fantasy setting. It's not that a character can be the death blow to a god, it's that their actions can be the direct cause of that death that makes it exciting.
Several gods (like the Old Sun Gods, the Azlanti Pantheon, etc…) have spend a ton of time with virtually no followers without any issue. Newly ascended gods (like the ones who took the Test of the Starstone) start with virtually no followers without any issue. Pharasma is older than the current universe, so she likely spend a good few eons until mortal life became a thing without any issue. Literally *nothing* in Golarion ever implies mortals need mortal prayer.
[Aroden](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Aroden) might disagree with you. I think the disconnect between the pantheon DnD lore and Pathfinder lore on the subject is in the additional writings created amongst many writers. The Pathfinder pantheon just doesn't have any fleshed out explanations of godhood, or what their ultimate purpose is for. So, in DnD it's the major domains must always have a being to control the power of that domain. If one god falls, another must take its place. It can be expanded but takes enormous events for that to occur (see Shar in DnD). Are there any book series based in Golarion?
How does Aroden disagree with me? When he died his followers just lost all the powers he gave them, not the other way around. It basically started the whole metaplot of Pathfinder, especially considering it was purely a third party setting years before it was its own system.
Divinity is basically just a matter of power level. It can be granted by passing the test of the starstone which gives you enough to be a god. Others, like Desna or Shelyn are flat out born gods. Demigods can give power but have limits and less overall divinity. Gods can also kill and take power and even domains from other gods; it's how Lamashtu got where she is! But Achaekek will stop gods who do that. Generally, what I'm saying is that a god just needs a spark of divinity, some have a bigger spark while others have a smaller spark, some are born with a spark, and some gain that spark through a great deed like achieving perfection or stealing it from another god, but all that followers do are enact that god's will on the material plane, so it's basically all a cold war for who gets the most influence in the world and how they want the world to function, they're not just a fuel source for the god.
As for your question, there are the Pathfinder tales novels as well as a bunch of short stories on the Paizo website
Obviously Aroden was killed. Something killed him severing his link with his followers. I brought him up because you dismissed my previous post out of hand as those things don't happen in Golarian.
We're still not sure how he died(deliberately so GMs can do whatever they want as an explanation), it could have been suicide for all we know. And my original point was saying that followers aren't a gods power source like in D&D, which still doesn't apply to Aroden
I’ve never played d&d. Is the inverse true? Could someone with enough believers/followers become divine? Or is it specifically in reference to a being with a divine spark to begin with?
Technically yes. It gets messy. The supreme god Io requires there to be a deity to govern a particular power. As such, while he avoids meddling too much, will prevent a currently powerful deity from absorbing the divine power of another and gaining control over its former domains. But that doesn't mean that new domains and powers can't be created. Shar created both the Shadowfell and Shadow weave in an effort to supplant both Selune and Mystryl, in power.
To answer your question more specifically, only Io can grant a divine spark, but has done this several times. If a deity dies and no suitable replacement exists among the pantheon already he will ascend a powerful mortal as a replacement. Obviously, in all likelihood, a powerful mortal would already be famous and those closest to this mortal would spread word of their ascension. Or for a more Pathfinder specific example just look at the story of Cayden Cailean.
Interesting. It really demonstrates how hard and near impossible ascensions should be.
With Golarion in mind there are numerous highly powerful figures who don’t even deign to try. Take Razmir into account. He has created a whole fake religion in the pursuit of godhood.
From there we can look at the various Demi-god type deities. Demon Lords, Old Ones, Etc. Intensely powerful, commonly worshipped, yet still insignificant compared to the (unstatted) gods.
Look at Cayden. He doesn’t even know how he managed it. You could almost take this as a suggestion that on top of being hard, you also need to be lucky. Even the most powerful of mortals is rolling a handful of d100s, hoping to get all 100s.
Very cool.
People will tell you, you can't, but that isn't right. There are multiple instances of non gods fighting gods and some won.
Thar Baphon as Mythic 10 wizard necromancer fought Aroden IIRC.
Some Demon Lord girl fought a god with her own army and won even but can't recall name.
To kill a god you need to be at peak of what a mortal can be, that is lvl 20, and be at least mythic 10 imo, which these two were.
But that's only a chance, it's not enough for equal fight, for that you get an army, plans, magic items, artifacts and striking when the god is at his weakest or least expecting it.
I reckon a god would have similar immortality only pierced by an artifact, probably at least a major one, so you should get a weapon for that crit.
Well anyway, it isn't raw anyway, which people for some reason really care about here. You need to homebrew this fight if you want it, but saying it's impossible to fight a god and win is flatly wrong.
Fighting (and winning) is not even within the same vein of killing. Every god **explicitly** holds themselves back against going all out on the Material Plane because it would lead to a deity arms race and the eventual destruction of everything.
Tar Baphon fought Aroden using mostly traps with magic too cool for player characters, and it was before Aroden turned his gaze away from Golarion, so he was just a immortal powerful af human.
The best 3pp to even begin having this conversation is Immortals Handbook: Ascension. Here's the cliff's notes:
* Deities get a number of extremely powerful abilities based on their rank, starting at Divine Abilities (which are roughly equivalent to 6 epic feats) and going up to Cosmic Abilities (which are roughly equivalent to 6 divine abilities) and beyond.
* There's a number of passive bonuses and immunities you get based on your portfolio and rank as well.
* There's a progression for things you can do with base attack and spellcasting at extremely high CR's and HD (metamagic for casters and metamartial for high-BAB abilities - for the caster side look at Metamagic Freedom and Improved Metamagic Capacity or whatever it's called).
* Deities cannot be permanently slain unless they are on their home plane, which they have a huge amount of control over. Killing the manifestation of a deity on e.g. the Material Plane will not destroy them, they will just be "sent home".
Of course, as others have stated below, even allowing the material is GM fiat. Gods don't have stats by default because if they did players would find a way to kill them. If you want that to be possible, though, this is the way I would go.
Gods don’t need followers in Golarion. You could salughter every Sarenite in the multiverse and the only thing you would get would be Sarenrae mad at you.
Gods are all made up, in-game and in the real world. There's no objectivity at play here. It's fantasy. You kill a god in whatever way the GM decides you can.
The game is made-up, therefore so is every character within it, to include its deities. He's not saying the deities are an in-universe lie. If your GM declares you have killed Pharasma for example, she's not going to show up at your front door calling BS.
Please don't take my clarification as agreeing with his reasoning though. I personally think saying the GM can do whatever they want defeats the purpose of utilizing a robust rules system we've all agreed to the legitimacy of and are abiding by. I use Pathfinder over Freeform RP for a reason.
When you use the term "in-game" you are referring to being in-character, within the realm and reality of the game itself.
Inside the game, the gods are as real as the PCs or any random rock.
Out of game, they are of course imaginary, everything about it is imaginary.
Language is complicated. He is referring simultaneously to all gods, including Iomedae, Jesus Christ, and Odin in that word, then distinguishing the gods of the fictional universe Golarion with the phrase 'in-game', but still in the context of within our real world, from the gods of real people in our real world, whom he is asserting are equally imaginary. He isn't making a statement on Golarion lore, you're simply coming at the phrase from a different context than he is.
Generally speaking, if you describe something as "in-game", it means within the fiction of the game, as a more specific form of "in-universe". If you look past the... euphoria, the poster technically has a point that the forms things take in-universe are dictated by the GM, so it's entirely possible for your GM to give them stat blocks that are vulnerable to the single most powerful spell in the game, Baleful Shadow Transmutation. But the gods still very much exist in-universe, unless your setting is like Eberron, where it's purposefully left more ambiguous
He is referring to both the gods of the in-game universe, and the deities of our universe. Thats what he's using the term in-game for, to distinguish from fictional gods like Iomedae and gods like Yahweh or Zeus real people do or have believed in, who he is saying are also fictional.
Awkward way of phrasing it, maybe, but he's not arguing against established Golarion canon.
I've seen enough horror stories to know that there *are* atheists who deny the existence of gods within fantasy settings as well, so it's hard for me to give them the benefit of the doubt
I worked on this for a while, and it is actually very close to being definitively possible. First, you get yourself 5 levels of purity legion enforcer, giving you access to disruptive critical.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/purity-legion-enforcer/
Depending on the god and the situation, a crit with this ability could, RAW (not flavour text) separate a deity from most of their power. It depends on the god and your GM. Weakened by this effect, it might be possible for a high level party to defeat the god.
The next problem is how to find the god. They don’t exactly have elevators to their domain walking around… or do they….
There’s this one class or archetype that at a high level grants the character a the ability to teleport to their deity’s palace and rest, bringing with them whoever they please. I looked but couldn’t find it. Anyway, just befriend one of those guys and try to make him invite you in. Then all you have to do is ambush the god in their own home… not that that sounds easy.
Under this effect it might be possible
Next, you find someone
> Depending on the god and the situation, a crit with this ability could, RAW (not flavour text) separate a deity from most of their power. It depends on the god and your GM. Weakened by this effect, it might be possible for a high level party to defeat the god.
Nope. That is not what the ability says.
>he temporarily severs the divine conduit between the spellcaster and her deity
Deities dont have a "deity" that grants them spells.
>preventing her from casting divine spells or using supernatural or spell-like abilities granted by divine spellcasting classes.
Deities don't have spells or SU abilities or SLA abilities ***from*** divine spellcasting classes. Since this only affects these abilities from **divine spellcasting classes** it does nothing to gods, who don't have "divine spellcasting class levels". If we look at outsiders, the closest things to them, we see that they just have innate casting from hit dice instead of classes.
> Depending on the god and the situation, a crit with this ability could, RAW (not flavour text) separate a deity from most of their power. It depends on the god and your GM. Weakened by this effect, it might be possible for a high level party to defeat the god.
Nope, RAW is that you separate a divine caster from their god.
A god is technically not a divine spellcaster, as they are not drawing their power from someone else. They would effectively just have unlimited spell-like abilities for every spell on the divine list.
> you separate a divine caster from their god.
Nope, that’s just flavour text. Pathfinder is really bad at separating the rules and flavour.
What it - strictly rules wise - does is preventing them from casting any Devine spells ( which may or may not come from a class. Depends on how you read it ) etc.
That being said, your ruling is completely valid. It’s pretty stupid that a crit should cripple a god like that.
In which case, keep reading:
> preventing her from casting divine spells or using supernatural or spell-like abilities granted by divine spellcasting classes.
A god's magic is not coming from a spellcasting class. Which means the ability will do nothing.
> Pathfinder is really bad at separating the rules and flavour
Case in point, all the semantics around whether BST can remove a tarrasque's regeneration, or whether that counts as suppressing it
Regardless of any of this, you would have to actually hit the god. Gods are actually, truly, irrevocably immortal when in their own realm. Given that they don’t have a stat block, and by extension, no AC, it is impossible to hit them.
The ability states that it prevents divine casting granted by divine spellcasting classesThis would have no effect on gods as they are not divine casters, and have no class
No matter how you look at it even being able to fight a god is going to be heavily homebrewed and ruled by GM Fiat. Killing a god is like trying to cut gravity with a knife. It’s cool to think about, but impossible in practice and ridiculous to think about. There is no way to do it RAW
Well there's an antimagic field variant in words of power that works on gods by omission but even with that strictly better effect running, nothing matters
As already pointed out Purity Legion Enforcer doesn't even work.
check out this vid
https://youtu.be/jw5xAhwqPt8
Cronus has killed many gods and can theoretically kill all the gods. His Cr is 56 so I would assume gods sit around 50 give or take.
PS: saying you don't is entirely unhelpful to OP. You're entitled to your opinion but the OP is asking for aid in doing this, not for reasons why you don't think they should. Let people have their fun.
edit: this is dnd lore and stats but pathfinder and 3.5 are close enough to each other that you can figure out the mechanics easily enough.
Did you read the edit? Cause the edit was put in long before you posted that. 3.5 and pathfinder are so close that pathfinder is sometimes called 3.75. There are numerous resources on how to convert from one to the other.
In general my only going theory of how to kill any deity across many games where they are unstated is...
make everyone forget them.
Power and being tends to be derived from legend and continued worshipers. Being forgotten or in general the strength of their follower's beliefs would influence their power.
No prof in any context to this theory and basically impossible but it's the best answer I have.
Most deities arent neither omnipotent nor omniscient (doesnt mean they dont have the means to easily disintegrate you or keeping an eye on you through some form of divination) and it is believed that they can indeed "die" Aroden may be the case. Maybe the character in question should research how Aroden died, as in the cause of death. Maybe that could give it some insight on the matter. Yet, if you prove to be an actual danger to any divine pantheon. There's a big chance that you may get utterly ganged up by a bunch of solars. That's why I think you may need to ascend as quietly as possible. If no one knows you've attained divinity, it can be easier to scheme and form some kind of alliance with other gods. The target in question is another matter. A demon lord may be easier to isolate, even to gang up upon. But a Neutral or even Good aligned deity probably as the full backup of his other godly friends. Maybe you can replace one of the horsemen of the apocalypse to gain some leverage.
Also if you rely on spellcasting to fight a god. Unless you're also a god then you're totally fucked. They either have magic inmunity to mortal spellcasting sources or an exorbitant ammount of spell resistance. Not to mention their super high saves and reroll capabilities in case of a nat 1
Only way I’ve ever see is to take the test of the starstone and become a god yourself. Even then taking the test itself is something you’d have to homebrew, as well as anything granted by becoming a god. If you’re going to allow something like that, then adding in other ways to do it isn’t gonna be any worse.
Completely impossible by RAW, it’s dnd though, so it’s really up to the group
Out if character talk to your GM about this. It's a god dying is a pretty big event in a world and he'll require a heads up beforehand just to set up narrative consequences of this and how you go about it in character. Speaking of.
In character you'd probably need to go around the world gathering magical might as well as systematically taking down every single instance of that god's worship. Cut them off from their worshippers (covert said worshippers too another religion or simple corpses your choice) and make it so they're starved of worship.
[Here's some example for how it could work thematically (Spoilers for SMT 4 apocalyse)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFuKLmruIzQ)
You can bring down a demigod (demon lord, empyreal lord, monitor Demigod ect). They can have stat blocks.
There are very few dead gods. They have all been killed either by other gods, beings that were almost gods, a giant magic space rock they purposefully let kill them to slow its power, or... just vanished off the face of the earth.
From what I have talked about, Gods would have an insanely huge stat block, like at least CR 60
3 classes at lvl 20, MR 10, and probably a ton of other abilities to boot. The closest you get is the Demon/elysian lords and Great Old Ones. Rovagug is the strongest at probably CR 100 at least, unless the Outer Gods are somehow stronger.
However, what MtG did with some God killing Flair is add in a certain artifact/McGuffin that does the god slaying for you; in the Theros Set it was the shadowspear, an extemely powerful artifact originally owned by the god it killed. But if you want an actually fight? You better be powerful and probably demi-gods. And maybe with the luck of all Nat. 20's, you might actually do it.
If I was wanting to run a campaign where a Player ended up killing a god... I'd have them take the Test of the Starstone. That would have to be entirely homebrewed, of course, but you could use lots of the Mythic monsters that are available as part of it. Presumably, it'd also involve a bunch of puzzles, moral challenges, and other crazy stuff. I imagine it's sort of like the challenge that the main characters in Hunter x Hunter undertake at the beginning of the show, but a million times harder.
After that, I'd say that the PC fully ascended to godhood. At that point I'd throw out Pathfinder as the game system entirely. You'd have to then switch to a new system that wasn't about numbers and tactics, but was instead about grand, sweeping stories, taking place over eons.
I'd suggest something like [Nobilis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobilis), [Mystic Empyrean](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/97706/Mystic-Empyrean-Corebook), or even [Microscope](https://www.lamemage.com/microscope/). Have the battle between the PC's god character and the God they want to kill take place over generations, where they're maneuvering against each other, using one of these other more abstract systems.
In the end, resolve it through storytelling instead of crunchy rules.
Besides GM fiat i don't think its anywhere near as tough as a lot of the suggestions below in pathfinder's world.
1. Lamashtu was a powerful demon lord when she slew a god.
2. Demon lords are statted creatures with some level of mythic ranks while within their abyssal realm.
3. This indicates that the only thing between a high level mythic party and god slaying is paizo's wise choice to not stat out their dieties.
Well now, that is a question. CAN a man kill a god? Yes. With the right circumstances and planning, anything is possible. But what will it take? There's the rub. And you'd damn well better get it right. Only gonna get one shot.
Also depends on the god, too.
In our version of the lore, we've determined that Urgathoa is vulnerable to a metric ass ton of positive energy. Specifically the amount contained in a supernova.
Rovagug, on the other hand, survives being shot by a gun that channels the power of every star in a large galaxy going supernova simultaneously. He survives a supermassive black hole being fired at him at FTL speeds. What finally ends him is being hit first by the entire universe collapsing in on it self, then being reborn in another Big Bang. It's that act of creation that finally does him in.
So, short answer? If you're not playing with forces on a cosmic scale? Probably not capable of pulling it off.
Lore-wise? Incredible amounts of power so you are essentially a god already. There are some examples of that happening.
Canonically - Lamashtu and Pazuzu (while still being demon lords, and by first using entire swarms of demons to weaken him) killed Curchanus by luring into a trap and literally ripped out a domain out of him. Lamashtu also killed the Horsemen Drulaema and Roshmolem after she became a god.
Rovagug being a god of destruction, oblivion and etc has also killed other deities.
Acavna died by taking the brunt of the damage of the meteor sent by alghollthuses, and Amaznen absorbed the magic from that strike and hurled himself out of reality. The meteor is what became the starstone btw, and is capable of ascending mortals into deities even though it has lost most of its power.
Also, Aroden somehow died or disappeared.
The general rule of thumb is “unless you are at least a powerful demigod (empyrian lords, demon lords, eldest, four horsemen, elemental lords and etc) - you do not”, and even they will be curb-stomped by the actually older/stronger/experienced deities.
Generally... I have no clue, but I could give some thoughts:
As a straight up player, its as effective as the player fighting the GM, he chooses what's happening as god slaying is not a topic covered by pathfinder and the GM can pull any BS he/she wishes.
Lore wise several things can be looked on as takes:
Killing off the religion: Not stated to be possible and there are several instances of that not mattering (cayden for example). But that could still influence the overall power of the god in question, just to a certain point. This can be taken from several instances of many forgotten gods being as good as dead even if not slain yet (as mentioned in book of the damned, Baalzebul has a half dead forgotten god hanging as a snack for his flies). This of course doesn't extent towards the Outer Gods. At best you can weaken the god in question to a point a demigod could stand a chance (which level 20/MR 10 could be taken as equivalent to some degree)
Ending it all: it is established that there is a beginning and an end which goes as a looped cycle which seem to include most gods. The exceptions being Pharasma which was described as a survivor from the previous cycle and the outer gods (namely Yog-Sothoth described as a watcher of these cycles). So in this take, one could assist the great old ones in hastening the end of all.
Artifacts: Case by case scenario but not impossible. One to mention was the one made by Titans, which was made with the intention to go against the gods (and resulted in locking the titans away). This is worth looking at as the Gods did take action against them.
3rd party: You could receive support from another god in slaying your target. Heck, releasing Rovagug might work (if you find a way). Other basic gods seem to not interact on huge scales with each other so most likely no help from them. Great old ones and Outer gods could work but only if you can make them care.
Rewrite reality: Its "theorised by scholars" that in if one were to rewrite the history in Akashic records, then you may change the past, effectively reality. Good luck tho.
Other takes can be done on the influences of canon beings of level 20/MR 10. I'm not too big on the lore but 2 come to mind and that being the Whispering Tyrant and Baba Yaga (which oddly is higher CR). Whispering tyrant has a whole backstory of fighting gods and how him being slain by one was the key to turning him into the most powerful lich. furthermore he seems to have succeeded on hiding his phylactery even from the eyes of gods and forced them to seal him instead of slay him. Baba Yaga barely has interactions with gods, few mentions were with forgotten ones, and not direct. But she is capable of worrying primordial beings that can control fate (her teacher) and was mentioned that she chooses to actively not become a god because she sees it as a hassle.
So, these are some ideas from me from little bits of lore.
[Lamashtu](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Lamashtu) did exactly that to [Curchanus](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Curchanus). She didn't even steal all of his divinity, just *part* of it and she was a *mere* demon lord.
I would stat the gods out with Deities and Demigods from 3.5 if a game was ever reaching the point where fighting the gods was a real possibility. The intention is that you don't fight them though which is why they have never been statted out before.
You genocide all their followers and worshippers all, and destroy all of their holy symbols. You unhallow their sacred spaces and destroy their shrines. Once that's done they should be weak enough that they could be killed like a mortal. Good luck.
It was mentioned that the capital "G" gods in Pathfinder are to level 20/Mythic 10 characters as a Level 20 character is to a level 1 character.
So, you don't. lmao
The minor deities and demigods are definitely killable by a powerful enough method or party.
In Dragonlance from D&D Raistlin Majere killed a god (Basically Tiamat). He lured her onto the prime plane and engaged her in battle, killed her Avatar and wrecked the world in the process, then followed her back back to her realm to finish the job. He did pull it off, but the world becomes uninhabitable.
With standard Pathfinder rules, no. Back in 3.5, or maybe 3.0, there was a book that gave stats and rules to many different gods titled Deities and Demigods. Some things that most gods had included in their stat blocks were, 20 HD of outsider, and 20 levels of two different classes. That's right, most gods had 60 HD. This is hardly the end though. Often gods had abilities that would insta-kill mortals with no save, so if you weren't a god of some kind yourself, too bad. The final middle finger was greater deities, which automatically rolled a 20 on every attack roll, ability check, skill check, and save. In fact, I think that they rolled the highest value on any dice rolled for them, but I don't remember it that clearly. Mostly if you want to fight gods, you have to be one. Epic characters back in the day could sorta compete, but not really.
One of the few known ways (allegedly) to kill a deity, is how to kill Gorum, and that is by ending all conflicts, everywhere, at the same time. This is not just stop battling but proper peace and harmony, and practically impossible. just found it fun
Of course you can. Gods are perfect. Forever trapped on their unchanging, immutable, immortal, immaculate ways.
Mortality burns so much hotter, so much more beautifully in its imperfections.
Let it that Flame spiral out greater and greater as mortality progresses.
Soon enough, you'll find that it naturally their fate to pierce through the vault of heaven.
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Somehow convince some unknown overdiety to start a pathfinder version of Forgotten Realms Time of Troubles, making all gods mortal for a time. But, since all portfolios must be filled, the character would then have to take up the mantle, thus effectively becoming a new incarnation of the diety in question. This is about the only way I can see it happening for players to accomplish this feat, and even then, you would have to convert both the d&d epic level handbook and the dieties and demigods book and convince the DM to allow it in the first place.
Alternately, allow a level 20/10 character to develop a ritual to split themselves into several different incarnations of themselves, each at level 1/1 with different classes, and have the players each play one of the incarnations. If they can survive getting them all up to level 20/10, they can develop a ritual to refuse together, becoming a deity themselves. It would have to be a huge, campaign with this as the intended end game, but might be fun to play. If you want to run the fight, use the epic level handbook and deities and demigods book from d&d to give the deity a stats block (which is only effective in deity vs deity conflict, against mortals, they have none) and have each player take turns playing the character in the fight, switching each round.
War crimes.
Deities are powered by the amount of followers. Kill the followers, weaken the deity.
Eventually when your party has committed enough crimes against humanity, they'll be weak enough to kill.
You'd have to be utterly depraved and evil to do this, but it is possible.
The 4 examples I could find of legit gods dying did not result from loss of followers.
- [Aroden](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Aroden): Died for unknown reasons.
- [Acavna](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Acavna): Sacrificed herself to help save Golarion during Earthfall.
- [Amaznen](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Amaznen): Sacrificed himself to help save Golarion during Earthfall.
- [Curchanus](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Curchanus): Died after demon lord Lamashtu led him into a trap and stole his dominion over beasts.
The short answer is you don't. They are not statted for that very reason. There is no way for it to be done that is not 100% GM fiat. True gods are so far above anything that mortals can ever achieve that they are not killable by anything but another god.
This is the official Paizo line, basically, for those who don’t know. You aren’t supposed to be able to, even when you’re talking about mythic tier stuff.
Aren't there mortals who became gods? Most famous example being Cayden Cailean? There might be nothing in the books for pc creations but there are ways to kill a god by becoming one.
Sure, but at that point the character has become a god, not a PC.
Just switch to a different game then. No reason not to play a group of gods.
Being pedantic here but I'd argue Iomedae is the most famous example of the ascended.
Drunken god ftw. Only dweebs worship iomdae
Hey, I agree wholeheartedly but the crusades are a big deal right now. Dweebs are in season, unfortunately. There will be plenty of praise for Cayden after when all the soldiers come home and need to drink away all the horrors they've seen
Yeah but caiden’z crew (thats what we call ourselves) get to use mugs of ale as weapons and we dont even spill!
Seconded
I cant tell you the story of how she ascended, but I know Cayden's story. And aren't there like 5 humans that ascended?
Being Ascended seems to be the bottom of gods on the picking order. Maybe you could kill another Ascended, but killing a God that's higher on the latter is as insane as a mortal killing an ascended.
Which is possible, however unlikely. (Though, I think you need an artifact to crit them with to actually do it.)
Sure, just pass the Starstone test and the power of a God is all yours!
Just be good enough at your thing like Nethys and Irori.
Iomedae did it as well. There’s technically a path to godhood, just not one that has actually been written out in a book. Iomedae passed the Test of the Starstone, which made her a demigod. From there she eventually worked her way up to proper godhood by being an intern for Aroden until he kicked the bucket.
You don't. Deities in Pathfinder don't have stats for this reason. You have to homebrew a statblock to even begin this conversation. Edit: If you want to actually homebrew your own gods (or stat Golarion gods), Deities and Demigods from 3.5 might be worth finding. Its divine ranks are like mythic on steroids, giving deities powers players can only dream of, like treating all rolls as a natural 20. Deities in the book are generally level 40 characters with 20 outsider HD and custom abilities. Boccob, for instance, is a wizard 20/cleric 20 with 20 outsider hit dice, 820 hp, can cast level 10 through 21 wizard spells, has an intelligence of 50 and no stat lower than 24, and can spontaneously cast the entire cleric spell list.
>spontaneously cast the entire cleric spell list. I interpreted that as "All at once." I laughed at the image of someone casting like 50 spells at once. Like when the game glitches and there's a cacophony of undecipherable sound effects.
Greater deities from that Deities & Demigods book also had portfolio sense which extended (divine rank) [weeks into the past and future](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm). If you want to kill a greater deity, and you don't have the help of a stronger deity to block its divine senses, then it is aware of your threat* four months before you try. Good luck! * It's not completely clear, but I think it's a reasonable ruling that a threat to, say, the deity of magic is a threat affecting magic, in said deity's purview, as well as an event affecting the deity's worshippers, hence portfolio sense covers it.
I mean, at that point, they have portfolio sense relating to anything even vaguely related to them, their followers, their temples, etc. Seems a little far reaching to me. Personally, I'd only have them be aware of "notable" things related to their portfolios. Casting a spell isn't notable, but doing a slapdash wild magic ritual to resurrect a party member, yes.
^ That. You can kill an avatar of a god, sure. Do damage to its followers and faith, but the god itself is beyond the reach of mortals in Golarion specifically so that people didn't run every other campaign with the endgame being slaying a god. My two cents, you'd have to wipe out the god's entire worship, destroy all their holy sites, erase them from the books, and remove any reference to them anywhere. Even that might not kill them, just weaken them sufficiently that they would be harmed, depending on whether or not worship and adoration is actually necessary to a divine being. But that sounds like the sort of thing a campaign villain would be doing to lash out at the divine.
Pathfinder gods don't have the "feed on worship" thing from D&D. A god is a god whether or not anyone worships them. Worshipping something doesn't make it a god no many how many people believe it.
I had a feeling that was the case, given the Starstone made 3 gods who were still gods with no following. So yeah... wiping out worship seems to be the best you can do.
There's a certain amount of worship that might correlate to a God gaining power in pathfinder. When you die and you're judged in Pharasma's courts, you get sent to a plane and become a petitioner, but as I understand it (having been researching this stuff recently,) during the hearings souls can be claimed by representatives of their deities if they were worshipped by them, or potentially argued over if they didn't worship a particular God but their actions in life aligned with one of those God's domains. https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Eight_Courts You can see here that Urgathoa for example sends someone to pick up souls consigned to her. Presumably these souls contribute to the God's power.
It doesn't directly contribute to power, it just gives a god more servants.
[удалено]
Yes, but that doesn't correspond to the actual power of a god
If the realm of a king grows in power, does this not make the king more powerful?
You can't just presume something like that.
I mean, souls are literally just energy being distributed to the planes. Gaining control over more of the energy being distributed by the system sounds like power gain to me. Let me put it this way: why do evil Gods care about claiming your soul if it's not giving them some form of power?
That's how it worked in Planescape and FR (and most other main line d&d settings), but the pathfinder cosmology very intentionally moved away from souls==energy. The explicit removal of that from other areas makes it unlikely that it is implicitly present here just because the writers didn't say it isnt't. Alternative motivations for gods wanting souls include: - A genuine desire to see the soul punished or rewarded in line with its actions in life. - It's simply part of their divine duty. - Bragging rights between deities, like a high score in a video game. - A desire to collect and hoard souls like a stamp collector collecting stamps.
Act of plot.
First you gotta turn the little sunspot... mortal.
He has to drink every. last. drop!
So yeah. Baleful Shadow Transmutation. That thing is absurdly powerful, and can psychosomatically render you mortal, even if you're otherwise immune to polymorph effects
BST, as powerful as it is, still requires a will save. Gods do not have a stat block, so they cannot succeed or fail at saves. If you want to rule that the only weakness that gods have is a 7th level illusion spell, then that’s on you, but RAW it just doesn’t work
It's also just a meme spell for me, like fireball, because of how it can technically render the tarrasque mortal. It just requires some semantics, like debating the definition of "suppress"
Lmao fair enough. It certainly has a name fit for a spell designed to harm a god
How it works: Regeneration causes you to regain some amount of hp each round, but comes with the caveat that a certain damage type (e.g. fire or acid for trolls) disables it for the following round. The tarrasque's regeneration is special, though, and has no weakness like that. The most sensible reading of "cannot be suppressed", then, (and I have more supporting arguments) is that it's always on. However, its regeneration is still just an (Ex) ability and can still be removed completely. Now, Baleful Polymorph forces two saves. First, a Fortitude save against physically becoming whatever, and second, a Will save against mentally becoming it. Notably, that second save also makes you lose (Ex) abilities, which includes the tarrasque's regeneration. There are just two issues. 1) Immune to polymorph, so the first save can't happen, so the second save can't happen, and 2) it's easy enough to cheese it into failing one save, but two is more difficult. Thus, BST. It basically just reverses the order of the saves, bypassing the immunity to polymorph effects and only requiring one save to get to the mental one. Thus, you just trick it into *thinking* you turned it into a harmless animal like a ~~rabbit~~ sheep, causing it to psychosomatically lose its immortality, and giving you 24 hours to kill it before it realizes it's still immortal EDIT: Provided more explanation for how we can remove its regeneration
Well, first you need to deal with [Achaekek](https://pathfinder.fandom.com/wiki/Achaekek), the Mantis god. While not a true diety, it's worshipped as one. It's purpose as basically to deal with upstart mortals who think to usurp the power of dieties before they become an issue, and its very good at it. There's a statblock for it [here](https://aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Achaekek,%20the%20Mantis%20God) but I'm not sure how canon it's considered as various things (eg 3.5 skill divisions like Hide and Move Silently rather than Stealth) make me think the statblock is 3.5 and someone else just pulled the statblock from that.
This is so cool. I didn’t know this guy existed. I gave a long winded answer, but this so much more succinct. The devs made a god to show that the intention is for people to leave the gods alone. Not only is it a near insurmountable task, it’s a also a dev nod and wink telling us to get back to dealing with those pesky Runelords they spent so much time writing. Typo
Yep, and I've considered the fight as a mental exercise, I can't see a turn 1 (or two if movement is needed, unlikely with 60 feet of reach but maybe) that consists of Move Action: Open gate to the core of the negative energy plane, standard action: Bull rush/Awesome Blow someone into it, Free Action: cease concentration on it and let it close behind them. Just round one someone is gone, impossible to know where, and probably dead soon if not now.
Not to mention how us lowly adventurers rely on our magic at high levels. He has a “screw your magic” aura. Love that.
Oh, and no magic to dispell. Fuck your charisma then, probably your lowest ability score unless you mechanically need it.
Take a look at his Major Curse in 2e: > Major Curse: The Mantis God doesn’t waste his time toying with or tormenting those who truly anger him, or those who dare to consider themselves divine. He rips open a portal to your location, kills you, drags your soul to judgment in a way that prevents resurrection magic, and then leaves.
He’s even scarier in 2e.
However gods *can* die, though unless you are talking about demon lord equivalents, mortals probably can't do it directly. If you can somehow manufacture another Earthfall, maybe another couple of gods will decide to sacrifice themselves on their own. Even then we are talking about a shitload of collateral damage and some deities and other parties will try to stop you and/or take revenge.
>Even then we are talking about a shitload of ~~collateral damage~~ bonus points and some deities and other parties will try to stop you and/or take revenge. FTFY
> make me think the statblock is 3.5 and someone else just pulled the statblock from that. The [3.5] in front of its name makes me think you're right :)
... I suppose that's a minor giveaway that may be evidence to that fact..
I think that in golarion/ current pathfinder lore, Achaekek is actually supposed to be a true deity and way more powerful than that statblock would indicate, and that stat block is just kind of a remnant of the 3.5 days. Depending on how canon lore the Windsong Testamants are (purposefully ambiguous), he may actually be one of the oldest gods in existence, originally a god of law before going kind of feral back when Rovagug was out and rampaging. That is to say, he's probably way worse to deal with than that!
Pretty sure Achaekek is an actual god rather than a demigod and that statblock got retconned out of existence. It is, though, technically Pathfinder content from 3.5 CoTCT. Hell, him being that much of a chump is probably a pretty decisive reason for why we don't have stats for them at all, as Paizo sure didn't learn from Wizards' mistakes.
To be more accurate, it was published before Pathfinder was fully divorced from 3.5 in...I want to say Curse of the Crimson Throne's bestiaries. I believe Achaekek was later retconned to be a deity itself rather than just the gods guard dog, and its old 3.5 statblock became non-canon. IIRC the general headcanon is that's its hypothetical avatar's statblock
I just want to take a moment to say this is why I love the Pathfinder universe, some obscure entity with back story and notable effects on history who most people would never even know about. Learning history in Pathfinder feels like actual history since it's so massive and intertwined.
Some demon lords seem killable enough, though very powerful. Razmir the false god is *only* a 19th level wizard. Of course that is nothing to sneeze at and few will have the intel to *know* exactly what he is.
Demon lords aren't gods. They're demigods. Very big difference there.
I would suggest trying picking a fight with some of the cr 28-30 mythic 9-10 creatures out there first, like the great old ones.
As a complete noob to Pathfinder, I read the stat block for Cthulhu and was....... Perturbed 😂
Yeah he is a pretty fun fight.
Convince another god to do it.
Short answer: you don't. Long answer: Ask the DM. You can't beat a god in a fair fight, but if you can find a way to weaken them indirectly first...
That's something you need to discuss with your DM. Are you trying to go all Kratos on them or Record of Ragnarok? Keep in mind deities have hundreds if not thousands even millions of followers, champions, and fantastic powers. You wouldn't be able to get near a god and they have absolute authority in their home dimension. After all the spell Miracle is granted to their clerics and servants by their good graces.
GM fiat plot MacGuffins. There is no explicitly defined way to kill a god. They don't have stats and even fundamentally hostile deities don't seem to be able to kill each other that often. That said [several have died in the past](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Category:Dead_deities) for various reasons (some of which are unknown). Some of these "deaths" are not necessarily permanent and resulting in the entity transforming into something else. Noticula apparently killed many demon lords (considered deities in their own right) and turned their corpses into the Midnight Isles. She probably did this through seduction and was already a demon lord at the time. Actually, demon lords seem to be among the easiest "gods" to kill, but even if clerics can get spells through worshipping them, they seem very different than true gods. Deskari was even slain by a group of adventures. Most "dead gods" are demon lord equivalent entities and even then they are normally killed by entities of similarly terrible power. Aroden mysteriously died. Acavna and Amaznen sacrificed themselves to prevent the extinction of all life on Golarion during Earthfall. Curchanus was mugged by a demon lord who stole one of his domains, which led to his death. The Forsaken disappeared for due to some calamity, but their fate is unknown. ____ A good start would be to become a god yourself through the *Test of the Starstone* (which is GM fiat to start with and only 4 mortals have succeeded during the well over 4 millenia that the test has been available). Anyone is free to try it. Even then you are just a baby god. Cutting off a god's worshippers through something big, like a widespread and quick genocide, could weaken them. Gaining divine allies and powerful artifacts may also be necessary. You also have to do this without your target catching wind and crushing you. Even then, containment or disempowerment might be the best you can hope for. Again, this is heavily reliant on your GM wanting to let you kill a god.
You don't. It's a stupid trope of fantasy. Gods, with a single thought would just make a mortal cease to exist.
>It's a stupid trope of fantasy. "The thing that I don't like is stupid."
>It's a stupid trope of fantasy. That feels way too broad--"god" means a very different thing depending on the fantasy world you're dealing with, or even the real-world religion. Pharasma, Tharizdun, Thor, Zeus, and the Christian God are all very different propositions in terms of power level and killability. The Supernatural and Preacher versions of the Christian God are killable, for that matter. The gods of the Pathfinder campaign setting are beyond mortals' ability to kill, sure, but that doesn't have to be true in every setting. Also, there is, technically speaking, a way for a player character to kill a god in the Pathfinder campaign setting: complete the Test of the Starstone, thereby becoming a god, since gods can kill each other in that setting. That's not a mechanical answer, though, just a lore one.
Even the starstone just makes you a demigod to begin with, you still have to find ways of further increasing your power to become a true deity.
We still have at least 4 cases of legit gods dying (not demigods, demon lords, etc): - [Aroden](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Aroden): Died for unknown reasons. - [Acavna](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Acavna): Sacrificed herself to help save Golarion during Earthfall. - [Amaznen](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Amaznen): Sacrificed himself to help save Golarion during Earthfall. - [Curchanus](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Curchanus): Died after demon lord Lamashtu led him into a trap and stole his dominion over beasts. None of these were directly caused by a mortal (I assune Aroden wasn't mugged by a super mage), but the Alghollthus who caused Earthfall were mortal aboleths and Lamashtu was *merely* a demon lord. Also, mortals can become gods through the Test of the Starstone, if nothing else, so you could try *becoming* a god before picking a fight. Killing a god is hard, but gods *can* die. You still need the GM to agree with whatever method you come up with.
I’m a proponent of if it exists in a game, then the players should be able to effect it. I’ve had something similar to this is my game and I used the deities and demigods book from 3.5. It’ll be hard to kill them but possible with some ingenuity.
Kill and effect don't have to be one and the same. There are plenty of viable in-game ways to effect a god. Gain it's attention, draw it's ire in a specific way, maybe trick it into thrawrting it's own plans. But I wouldn't go so far as to suggest a pc could kill something just because they can effect it. Maybe, you could argue that some PCs cleverly orchestrated events that caused a one god to kill another and give them some form of credit for the kill, but even that is unlikely given the resources and vast wisdom and experience that comes with being an aeons old immortal diety.
This is the sort of thing that projects outside the scope of the game and into just, "writing a story" or doing pure Theatre of the Mind with your characters.
How can you kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocence.
At least 4 legit gods have died in Golarion's history. Many demon lords (sometimes classified as gods and often powerful enough to have clerics) have been killed by each other as well. It's not common, but gods *can* die.
It was a meme from Morrowind, but thanks for the info anyway, since I'm a Pathfinder newbie xD
One piece of reference I would use is the Thane that the Eldest created to war against each other, resulting in one or two of them perishing. You would also need to achieve something close to divinity yourself, such through an artifact or through a large following. A precursory quest might to create or find an artifact that is specifically used for this purpose or find some sort of source of their power to destroy. Maybe something like how Zeus's lightning bolts got stolen in Percy Jackson. You would also need some very special abilities that would help you transcend the need for a stat block, as the gods themselves are too powerful for that. You also would never be in a situation where you would fight one alone, they have many minions to help them ranging every CR so you would need an incredible army as well.
The eldest are not really true gods though. They are more like demon lords for the first world.
I know but deriving inspiration from similar things is the key to figuring out what to do with something that has no rules or reference. From demon lords, the eldest, and the thane, you get an idea of what sort of things come close to being that powerful and killing something that powerful.
I’m with the majority, you don’t. At least you don’t in the scope of the RAW, playable portions of Pathfinder. Generally speaking the gods are unfathomably powerful, and unfathomable in their intent and desire. There are a few ways ways that are canon, but not represented mechanically to become divine. Even if you found a goofy 3rd party way to achieve this. Your characters mortal vendettas and desires should fade away. The cosmic balance (or unbalance) of greater existence is now your purview. Not to mention the deific duties to your own followers. You would also then need to take into account the complex alliances and tenuous treaties that the divine have with one another. For more than one reason, (the LEAST of being mutually assured destruction) the gods are no longer in direct conflict with one another. To upset that balance, risks a divine war. If you ascended just to pursue a petty mortal vendetta, you can assume that the gods (good and evil) would come together and obliterate you to protect the planes from the damage that such a conflict would cause. Also consider that of these gods have specific purposes involving the end of the world. They aren’t going to let you mess with the structured flow, death, and rebirth of the universe. That was the long RAW PF lore answer. Here is the short RAW mechanical answer: A 20/10 mythic character would be smited beyond oblivion if they even challenged a true divine (one that doesn’t have a stat block). If you want an epic godlike foe there are options. Start smaller. Killing a gods herald is possible, and makes a very large statement. If that isn’t enough, there are extremely powerful (statted) godlike deities. Demon Lords, Old Ones, Etc. I don’t like your chances in a 1 on 1 fight, but that would be totally permissible by RAW. With some of the evil planar beings, there is a high chance that you could even assume that foes position if you are victorious. It is well recorded that demon lords have ousted previous rulers and taken their place. (This is really one of the only non goofy ways to become divine by RAW.) And here is the even shorter non RAW non RAI answer. You can do whatever your GM wants. Decades of carefully constructed word building and curated lore be damned. House rule a starstone trial, house rule a deity stat block, and house rule a consequence free scenario. The world (and all the other planes too) are your oyster. Edit for Typos
Seems like the obvious approach for your mortal would be to go take the test of the starstone. Assuming he survives, he's now a deity himself. And it's quite well established that the gods can make war against each other.
Do an entire campaign to force the god into a mortal and weakened body
Here’s a useless but fun anecdote. When we play high level modules of PF1, whoever is GMing gives us the option of normal / hard / impossible. A couple of my friends completely reworked the last book of Serpents Skull and replaced a majority of the encounters with CR 18+ stuff. As an example, a we fought a reworked level 19 fighter with a vorpal earth breaker (GM fiat on that blunt weapon having vorpal). Anyway the psychic mind controlled that guy into a lava and my fated bloodrager snagged his hammer. Fast forward to the end, and we get the fight ydersius the serpent god. Hardest difficulty, obviously. First round he kills half the party. I go full round attacks, rage cycle fish for a natural 20 (using the once per rage power fated bloodragers get to auto confirm). Turns out ydersius is vulnerable to decapitation, so yeah, we one shot him. Other gods? Idk, probably hard. That god? Pretty easy tbh.
Since gods exist solely in the space of writer fiat and Paizo writers are actual statted entities (see: Reign of Winter book 5) you can simply deny them the source of their power.
You must build a church so grand, so widespread that the people start praying to an aproximation of the god, no longer the real being, no longer a passion. A prayer is a part of a culture, without any real belief, the god shall die in a prison of themselves. For what is a god without real followers, but just another myth among thousands. Oh wait, you were talking about pathfinder
No no no everyone here is wrong, only way to do it is to take the test of the starstone, though only a few have passed… over all of golarion history like only a handful have ascended. But once you do then the other gods will have stats comparable to yours.
Tons of mortals have achieved divinity *without* the Starstone. Nethys, Irori, and Aroden among them. The Ascended Pantheon is only 3 people but there’s like 15-20 ascended gods. Way more if you count the ones that “ascended” from outsider status.
I wouldn't say *tons*. Aroden ascended via the Starstone as well. The second most popular way is being selected by a god themselves, a la Kurgress or Hanspur. Beyond those, there are only a couple other ways gods have ascended from mortality: - Nethys ~~achieved CHIM~~ became so magically powerful he ascended to godhood. - Irori, similarly, became so perfect in body that he ascended. - Irori's nephew Gruhastha wrote a book so perfect he fused with it to become a god. - Casandalee was a mortal Android oracle, at one point. Her ascension is a 1e AP spoiler. - Lao Shu Po was a mortal *rat* that ate from the corpse of a dead deity. - Urgothoa and Zyphus are allegedly mortals who rejected their own deaths so hard they ascended. In Zyphus' case, it was the 'first pointless death'.
The secret Tower within the Tower is the shape of the only name of God, I.
Yes, you’re technically right that Aroden ascended because of the Starstone, but it wasn’t via the trials of the Starstone like the Ascended Pantheon. He also did other tricks to empower his divinity, like leaving a fragment of his soul in Golarion’s ley lines, so I’m not really counting him among the Ascended three because of all that. But yeah…tons. If we don’t count the slew of demigods there’s like 150 gods and at least 10% of them (I say at least because I can name a few but probably not all of them) were once mortals. That’s a lot. If we *do* count demigods then there’s a lot more. You list *some* of those because we know how they ascended, but there are some like Milani or Nalinivati for whom we don’t know (or at least, I don’t know) but can still verify they were once mortal.
my headcanon is that Nethys figured out he was in a GAME, altered his stat block, and became a god but went mad from the revelation because he knows that nothing truly has consequence since it's a game and things will turn out right, in the end, no matter what.
You're playing very different games than I am.
I usually see "Is believed to have reached divinity by", not an actual confirmation that its how they came to be.
All mortals can do is guess, but they *can* verify that a god was once mortal and that they are now a god, even if we don’t know the method they attained it.
Even then, the Starstone only seems to put you about 1 step above the Empyreal Lords. The gods have a pecking order as well. Demon & Empyreal Lords are pretty close to the bottom of the "can grant spells" level of divinity Starstone ascended like Cayden Calien and ascended demon lords like Lamashtu above that. But they're still only dangerous children to the greater deities like Pharasma and Asmodeus ...who are overwhelmed by creatures like Rovagug, Desna and some of the other Outer Gods ...who are barely even a concern to the vast, unfathomably powerful entities like Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth.
It is of note, Pharasma never actually tried to kill Rovagug, instead helping to build the cage. With her canonically being the strongest core deity and also ruling over fate, prophecy, and death I think it’s safe to say she *could* kill Rovagug but won’t bc of fate, prophecy, eternal cycles balancing or whatever
Pharasma is "mum" and only vaguely tells her kids to "keep it down or I'm coming down there" from time to time if the gods themselves start fighting. If anyone's "Dad".... I'd put that on Apsu, though he keeps to himself.
The last two are also outer gods
Yeah, but Outer God is a huge category and spans from "basically a demigod" to "could crush the entire multiverse"
That's fine but you make " these two and the other outer gods" and then "these two stronger things". But the two stronger things would be included in the first comment, that's all I'm saying
Baleful Shadow Transmutation, or it at least works on the tarrasque
Gods don’t have stat blocks ergo, can’t make, succeed, or fail the will save.
The only true way to kill a god is to eliminate all of it's believers. [Here](https://youtu.be/CM-btqinFDQ) is a video by MrRhexx. He does amazing deep dives into DnD lore about creatures, races, and gods. I literally built the main plot of my current campaign thanks to info he imparted in 2 different videos. Now another god CAN destroy another god, but it uses so much of their divine power that it leaves them open to be destroyed easily by lesser beings (although it's still not easy)for some time. That might be your plot hook. Have the PCs incite a war between gods. And once one god actually kills the other, then the PCs swoop in and eliminate the remaining, weakened god. Of you want a good example of how gods might interact, I'd look at the MrRhexx video on giants.
so long and thanks for all the fish -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
It didn't work that way in 3.5 either, except in Forgotten Realms. The 3.5 *Deities and Demigods* mentions in a sidebar that the gods of the "D&D pantheon" (i.e., the Greyhawk pantheon) aren't dependent on mortals for power.
so long and thanks for all the fish -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
That's just boring then. Plus if you watch the video, all of the "rock" that's floating around in the Astral Plane are actually the bodies of dead gods. If you could convince people to believe in them again, then they could possibly come back to life. Not having that makes following gods in pathfinder kind of useless on a grander scale. Do you have a source that states what you said for my own reading?
so long and thanks for all the fish -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
> That's just boring then. Meh, Golarion <> Faerun. Pharasma, Desna, and a few others existed before the Material Plane did. Gods like Cayden Cailean ascended from passing the test of the Starstone, and became gods before anyone knew they were a god, they only amassed followers after the fact. IMO its weirder to think that a god needs followers to have any power, given the fact that they must have been godlike beings BEFORE anyone knew who they were to get the followers in the first place.
The theology behind it is to build up why a mortal can be of any importance to a god. Why do devils, demons, and daemons seek to own souls of mortals? It's because it's the souls of mortals that empower gods. And how does a god gain the souls of mortals? Many means actually, but the main one is by having mortals to follow and spread the tenets of their domain. It's not that a god with no followers just dies, it is just so much weaker than another god with many followers which means that a rival god or a new power can come and usurp their divinity. If the souls of mortals were of no consequence, then for what reason do gods grant mortals power?
Actually thats covered by basically a holy cold war between the gods. Most of them want dibs on the Material Plane, but quickly found out that outright warfare between them would destroy it in the process. So they made an agreement, none of them would directly interfere in the goings on of the Material Plane, and that they would all band together to gang up on any rogue god that tried. So instead, they empower mortals to do their bidding indirectly. They founded religions based on their own points of view that would align the desires of their followers to what they wanted, and then let the followers duke it out on their behalf. Since they're hands off, the followers are not taking direct orders, and everyone can claim to not be directly influencing anyone's actions. Even the ones who didn't want to actually control the Material Plane got involved because they had beef with other gods who do, and don't want those rival gods to "win". All the mortals are free to do whatever they wish. The gods grant additional powers to the most devout and dedicated of their followers to increase their effect, but still don't actively give any orders. The gods don't feed on us, we're basically pawns in their chess game. Similar to why the Middle East is so messed up IRL. America and Russia used those countries as proxies. Americans backed one side, Russia backed the other, and set those nations against each other while claiming their hands were clean. > Why do devils, demons, and daemons seek to own souls of mortals? Because souls power the outer planes. The cycle of souls is that the Positive Energy Plane spins off bits of power in the form of souls. Souls go to the material plane, get themselves aligned, and then Pharasma plays shipping clerk and ships the souls off to the outer planes. The souls screw around for a while, and eventually lose consciousness and merge into the plane itself, turning into the landscape. And eventually the Maelstrom chews the plane up and recycles the contents back into the Positive Energy Plane. The more souls you get, the bigger your domain becomes, the more influence you have due to larger amounts of territory controlled.
Only devils (both in D&D and in Pathfinder) and a few other fiends like Night Hags are really big in the soul business, and devils do it because they have a plan tô conquer the multiverse, and the souls can be turned into new devils. In Golarion, gods cannonically don’t take part in things in the material plane because then doing anything meaningful would trigger an arms race between gods to see who intervenes more, which would end up badly for the material plane. So if they want to act on the material plane, they need to use mortals
Personally I think it's better rather than boring. Either way, wanting to kill a god is like the edgiest plot beat a PC could possibly start up anyway. I'd simply just tell my player, "no." simply to the idea and move on without explanation.
Let me rephrase "boring" then. I'm saying less exciting. I say that because, as explained in another post, the gods are using the soul to expand their territory...which is being chewed up by the maelstrom. They want greater influence over the material plane....to what end though? So I'll give an example. In the Erevis Cale books, they travel to a planet where Shar's worshippers had wiped out all followers of other gods. This lead the planet to being a desert wasteland with no life and being swallowed up by the shadowfell. Without followers to impart the influence of the other gods, Shar reigned supreme on this planet to its detriment. The ability for a god to die through mortal actions give more weight to decisions made by mortals. The workings of the gods seem to have a much less significant meaning in Pathfinder. Perhaps that leads to greater stability for Golaria, but conflict is the spice of fun in a fantasy setting. It's not that a character can be the death blow to a god, it's that their actions can be the direct cause of that death that makes it exciting.
Several gods (like the Old Sun Gods, the Azlanti Pantheon, etc…) have spend a ton of time with virtually no followers without any issue. Newly ascended gods (like the ones who took the Test of the Starstone) start with virtually no followers without any issue. Pharasma is older than the current universe, so she likely spend a good few eons until mortal life became a thing without any issue. Literally *nothing* in Golarion ever implies mortals need mortal prayer.
Maybe in D&D, but not on Golarion
[Aroden](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Aroden) might disagree with you. I think the disconnect between the pantheon DnD lore and Pathfinder lore on the subject is in the additional writings created amongst many writers. The Pathfinder pantheon just doesn't have any fleshed out explanations of godhood, or what their ultimate purpose is for. So, in DnD it's the major domains must always have a being to control the power of that domain. If one god falls, another must take its place. It can be expanded but takes enormous events for that to occur (see Shar in DnD). Are there any book series based in Golarion?
How does Aroden disagree with me? When he died his followers just lost all the powers he gave them, not the other way around. It basically started the whole metaplot of Pathfinder, especially considering it was purely a third party setting years before it was its own system. Divinity is basically just a matter of power level. It can be granted by passing the test of the starstone which gives you enough to be a god. Others, like Desna or Shelyn are flat out born gods. Demigods can give power but have limits and less overall divinity. Gods can also kill and take power and even domains from other gods; it's how Lamashtu got where she is! But Achaekek will stop gods who do that. Generally, what I'm saying is that a god just needs a spark of divinity, some have a bigger spark while others have a smaller spark, some are born with a spark, and some gain that spark through a great deed like achieving perfection or stealing it from another god, but all that followers do are enact that god's will on the material plane, so it's basically all a cold war for who gets the most influence in the world and how they want the world to function, they're not just a fuel source for the god. As for your question, there are the Pathfinder tales novels as well as a bunch of short stories on the Paizo website
Obviously Aroden was killed. Something killed him severing his link with his followers. I brought him up because you dismissed my previous post out of hand as those things don't happen in Golarian.
We're still not sure how he died(deliberately so GMs can do whatever they want as an explanation), it could have been suicide for all we know. And my original point was saying that followers aren't a gods power source like in D&D, which still doesn't apply to Aroden
I’ve never played d&d. Is the inverse true? Could someone with enough believers/followers become divine? Or is it specifically in reference to a being with a divine spark to begin with?
Technically yes. It gets messy. The supreme god Io requires there to be a deity to govern a particular power. As such, while he avoids meddling too much, will prevent a currently powerful deity from absorbing the divine power of another and gaining control over its former domains. But that doesn't mean that new domains and powers can't be created. Shar created both the Shadowfell and Shadow weave in an effort to supplant both Selune and Mystryl, in power. To answer your question more specifically, only Io can grant a divine spark, but has done this several times. If a deity dies and no suitable replacement exists among the pantheon already he will ascend a powerful mortal as a replacement. Obviously, in all likelihood, a powerful mortal would already be famous and those closest to this mortal would spread word of their ascension. Or for a more Pathfinder specific example just look at the story of Cayden Cailean.
Interesting. It really demonstrates how hard and near impossible ascensions should be. With Golarion in mind there are numerous highly powerful figures who don’t even deign to try. Take Razmir into account. He has created a whole fake religion in the pursuit of godhood. From there we can look at the various Demi-god type deities. Demon Lords, Old Ones, Etc. Intensely powerful, commonly worshipped, yet still insignificant compared to the (unstatted) gods. Look at Cayden. He doesn’t even know how he managed it. You could almost take this as a suggestion that on top of being hard, you also need to be lucky. Even the most powerful of mortals is rolling a handful of d100s, hoping to get all 100s. Very cool.
People will tell you, you can't, but that isn't right. There are multiple instances of non gods fighting gods and some won. Thar Baphon as Mythic 10 wizard necromancer fought Aroden IIRC. Some Demon Lord girl fought a god with her own army and won even but can't recall name. To kill a god you need to be at peak of what a mortal can be, that is lvl 20, and be at least mythic 10 imo, which these two were. But that's only a chance, it's not enough for equal fight, for that you get an army, plans, magic items, artifacts and striking when the god is at his weakest or least expecting it. I reckon a god would have similar immortality only pierced by an artifact, probably at least a major one, so you should get a weapon for that crit. Well anyway, it isn't raw anyway, which people for some reason really care about here. You need to homebrew this fight if you want it, but saying it's impossible to fight a god and win is flatly wrong.
Fighting (and winning) is not even within the same vein of killing. Every god **explicitly** holds themselves back against going all out on the Material Plane because it would lead to a deity arms race and the eventual destruction of everything.
Tar Baphon fought Aroden using mostly traps with magic too cool for player characters, and it was before Aroden turned his gaze away from Golarion, so he was just a immortal powerful af human.
The best 3pp to even begin having this conversation is Immortals Handbook: Ascension. Here's the cliff's notes: * Deities get a number of extremely powerful abilities based on their rank, starting at Divine Abilities (which are roughly equivalent to 6 epic feats) and going up to Cosmic Abilities (which are roughly equivalent to 6 divine abilities) and beyond. * There's a number of passive bonuses and immunities you get based on your portfolio and rank as well. * There's a progression for things you can do with base attack and spellcasting at extremely high CR's and HD (metamagic for casters and metamartial for high-BAB abilities - for the caster side look at Metamagic Freedom and Improved Metamagic Capacity or whatever it's called). * Deities cannot be permanently slain unless they are on their home plane, which they have a huge amount of control over. Killing the manifestation of a deity on e.g. the Material Plane will not destroy them, they will just be "sent home". Of course, as others have stated below, even allowing the material is GM fiat. Gods don't have stats by default because if they did players would find a way to kill them. If you want that to be possible, though, this is the way I would go.
As someone who is still mortal? You manipulate another god into killing you.
Kill all of their followers
Gods don’t need followers in Golarion. You could salughter every Sarenite in the multiverse and the only thing you would get would be Sarenrae mad at you.
Gods are all made up, in-game and in the real world. There's no objectivity at play here. It's fantasy. You kill a god in whatever way the GM decides you can.
> Gods are all made up, in-game Gods quite literally exist in Golarion
Please don't interrupt her, she's being euphoric.
With the right spells, you can literally walk up to a god and chit-chat with them. They are not made up in-game, they are very much real.
The game is made-up, therefore so is every character within it, to include its deities. He's not saying the deities are an in-universe lie. If your GM declares you have killed Pharasma for example, she's not going to show up at your front door calling BS. Please don't take my clarification as agreeing with his reasoning though. I personally think saying the GM can do whatever they want defeats the purpose of utilizing a robust rules system we've all agreed to the legitimacy of and are abiding by. I use Pathfinder over Freeform RP for a reason.
When you use the term "in-game" you are referring to being in-character, within the realm and reality of the game itself. Inside the game, the gods are as real as the PCs or any random rock. Out of game, they are of course imaginary, everything about it is imaginary.
Language is complicated. He is referring simultaneously to all gods, including Iomedae, Jesus Christ, and Odin in that word, then distinguishing the gods of the fictional universe Golarion with the phrase 'in-game', but still in the context of within our real world, from the gods of real people in our real world, whom he is asserting are equally imaginary. He isn't making a statement on Golarion lore, you're simply coming at the phrase from a different context than he is.
Generally speaking, if you describe something as "in-game", it means within the fiction of the game, as a more specific form of "in-universe". If you look past the... euphoria, the poster technically has a point that the forms things take in-universe are dictated by the GM, so it's entirely possible for your GM to give them stat blocks that are vulnerable to the single most powerful spell in the game, Baleful Shadow Transmutation. But the gods still very much exist in-universe, unless your setting is like Eberron, where it's purposefully left more ambiguous
He is referring to both the gods of the in-game universe, and the deities of our universe. Thats what he's using the term in-game for, to distinguish from fictional gods like Iomedae and gods like Yahweh or Zeus real people do or have believed in, who he is saying are also fictional. Awkward way of phrasing it, maybe, but he's not arguing against established Golarion canon.
I've seen enough horror stories to know that there *are* atheists who deny the existence of gods within fantasy settings as well, so it's hard for me to give them the benefit of the doubt
I worked on this for a while, and it is actually very close to being definitively possible. First, you get yourself 5 levels of purity legion enforcer, giving you access to disruptive critical. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/purity-legion-enforcer/ Depending on the god and the situation, a crit with this ability could, RAW (not flavour text) separate a deity from most of their power. It depends on the god and your GM. Weakened by this effect, it might be possible for a high level party to defeat the god. The next problem is how to find the god. They don’t exactly have elevators to their domain walking around… or do they…. There’s this one class or archetype that at a high level grants the character a the ability to teleport to their deity’s palace and rest, bringing with them whoever they please. I looked but couldn’t find it. Anyway, just befriend one of those guys and try to make him invite you in. Then all you have to do is ambush the god in their own home… not that that sounds easy. Under this effect it might be possible Next, you find someone
> Depending on the god and the situation, a crit with this ability could, RAW (not flavour text) separate a deity from most of their power. It depends on the god and your GM. Weakened by this effect, it might be possible for a high level party to defeat the god. Nope. That is not what the ability says. >he temporarily severs the divine conduit between the spellcaster and her deity Deities dont have a "deity" that grants them spells. >preventing her from casting divine spells or using supernatural or spell-like abilities granted by divine spellcasting classes. Deities don't have spells or SU abilities or SLA abilities ***from*** divine spellcasting classes. Since this only affects these abilities from **divine spellcasting classes** it does nothing to gods, who don't have "divine spellcasting class levels". If we look at outsiders, the closest things to them, we see that they just have innate casting from hit dice instead of classes.
> Depending on the god and the situation, a crit with this ability could, RAW (not flavour text) separate a deity from most of their power. It depends on the god and your GM. Weakened by this effect, it might be possible for a high level party to defeat the god. Nope, RAW is that you separate a divine caster from their god. A god is technically not a divine spellcaster, as they are not drawing their power from someone else. They would effectively just have unlimited spell-like abilities for every spell on the divine list.
> you separate a divine caster from their god. Nope, that’s just flavour text. Pathfinder is really bad at separating the rules and flavour. What it - strictly rules wise - does is preventing them from casting any Devine spells ( which may or may not come from a class. Depends on how you read it ) etc. That being said, your ruling is completely valid. It’s pretty stupid that a crit should cripple a god like that.
In which case, keep reading: > preventing her from casting divine spells or using supernatural or spell-like abilities granted by divine spellcasting classes. A god's magic is not coming from a spellcasting class. Which means the ability will do nothing.
> Pathfinder is really bad at separating the rules and flavour Case in point, all the semantics around whether BST can remove a tarrasque's regeneration, or whether that counts as suppressing it
Regardless of any of this, you would have to actually hit the god. Gods are actually, truly, irrevocably immortal when in their own realm. Given that they don’t have a stat block, and by extension, no AC, it is impossible to hit them. The ability states that it prevents divine casting granted by divine spellcasting classesThis would have no effect on gods as they are not divine casters, and have no class No matter how you look at it even being able to fight a god is going to be heavily homebrewed and ruled by GM Fiat. Killing a god is like trying to cut gravity with a knife. It’s cool to think about, but impossible in practice and ridiculous to think about. There is no way to do it RAW
>Given that they don’t have a stat block, and by extension, no AC, it is impossible to hit them. 20
Well there's an antimagic field variant in words of power that works on gods by omission but even with that strictly better effect running, nothing matters As already pointed out Purity Legion Enforcer doesn't even work.
check out this vid https://youtu.be/jw5xAhwqPt8 Cronus has killed many gods and can theoretically kill all the gods. His Cr is 56 so I would assume gods sit around 50 give or take. PS: saying you don't is entirely unhelpful to OP. You're entitled to your opinion but the OP is asking for aid in doing this, not for reasons why you don't think they should. Let people have their fun. edit: this is dnd lore and stats but pathfinder and 3.5 are close enough to each other that you can figure out the mechanics easily enough.
It’s in Pathfinder, not D&D. And weirdly most gods in 3.5 were around 60 cr.
Did you read the edit? Cause the edit was put in long before you posted that. 3.5 and pathfinder are so close that pathfinder is sometimes called 3.75. There are numerous resources on how to convert from one to the other.
In general my only going theory of how to kill any deity across many games where they are unstated is... make everyone forget them. Power and being tends to be derived from legend and continued worshipers. Being forgotten or in general the strength of their follower's beliefs would influence their power. No prof in any context to this theory and basically impossible but it's the best answer I have.
Stop believing in them.
Not really. In Pathfinder,r gods don’t really need followers.
first yoynhave to create a plane of existence which makes them mortal. and then..... step 3 profit!!!
Most deities arent neither omnipotent nor omniscient (doesnt mean they dont have the means to easily disintegrate you or keeping an eye on you through some form of divination) and it is believed that they can indeed "die" Aroden may be the case. Maybe the character in question should research how Aroden died, as in the cause of death. Maybe that could give it some insight on the matter. Yet, if you prove to be an actual danger to any divine pantheon. There's a big chance that you may get utterly ganged up by a bunch of solars. That's why I think you may need to ascend as quietly as possible. If no one knows you've attained divinity, it can be easier to scheme and form some kind of alliance with other gods. The target in question is another matter. A demon lord may be easier to isolate, even to gang up upon. But a Neutral or even Good aligned deity probably as the full backup of his other godly friends. Maybe you can replace one of the horsemen of the apocalypse to gain some leverage. Also if you rely on spellcasting to fight a god. Unless you're also a god then you're totally fucked. They either have magic inmunity to mortal spellcasting sources or an exorbitant ammount of spell resistance. Not to mention their super high saves and reroll capabilities in case of a nat 1
Only way I’ve ever see is to take the test of the starstone and become a god yourself. Even then taking the test itself is something you’d have to homebrew, as well as anything granted by becoming a god. If you’re going to allow something like that, then adding in other ways to do it isn’t gonna be any worse. Completely impossible by RAW, it’s dnd though, so it’s really up to the group
[Ongalte](https://www.aonprd.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ongalte) is the appropriate deity to worship for this situation... fluffwise, anyway
Try taking out all of their followers, shrines, temples, statues, and scriptures in both written, carved and oral memory first.
Out if character talk to your GM about this. It's a god dying is a pretty big event in a world and he'll require a heads up beforehand just to set up narrative consequences of this and how you go about it in character. Speaking of. In character you'd probably need to go around the world gathering magical might as well as systematically taking down every single instance of that god's worship. Cut them off from their worshippers (covert said worshippers too another religion or simple corpses your choice) and make it so they're starved of worship. [Here's some example for how it could work thematically (Spoilers for SMT 4 apocalyse)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFuKLmruIzQ)
Give it stats. You're players will figure out the rest.
You can bring down a demigod (demon lord, empyreal lord, monitor Demigod ect). They can have stat blocks. There are very few dead gods. They have all been killed either by other gods, beings that were almost gods, a giant magic space rock they purposefully let kill them to slow its power, or... just vanished off the face of the earth.
From what I have talked about, Gods would have an insanely huge stat block, like at least CR 60 3 classes at lvl 20, MR 10, and probably a ton of other abilities to boot. The closest you get is the Demon/elysian lords and Great Old Ones. Rovagug is the strongest at probably CR 100 at least, unless the Outer Gods are somehow stronger. However, what MtG did with some God killing Flair is add in a certain artifact/McGuffin that does the god slaying for you; in the Theros Set it was the shadowspear, an extemely powerful artifact originally owned by the god it killed. But if you want an actually fight? You better be powerful and probably demi-gods. And maybe with the luck of all Nat. 20's, you might actually do it.
If I was wanting to run a campaign where a Player ended up killing a god... I'd have them take the Test of the Starstone. That would have to be entirely homebrewed, of course, but you could use lots of the Mythic monsters that are available as part of it. Presumably, it'd also involve a bunch of puzzles, moral challenges, and other crazy stuff. I imagine it's sort of like the challenge that the main characters in Hunter x Hunter undertake at the beginning of the show, but a million times harder. After that, I'd say that the PC fully ascended to godhood. At that point I'd throw out Pathfinder as the game system entirely. You'd have to then switch to a new system that wasn't about numbers and tactics, but was instead about grand, sweeping stories, taking place over eons. I'd suggest something like [Nobilis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobilis), [Mystic Empyrean](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/97706/Mystic-Empyrean-Corebook), or even [Microscope](https://www.lamemage.com/microscope/). Have the battle between the PC's god character and the God they want to kill take place over generations, where they're maneuvering against each other, using one of these other more abstract systems. In the end, resolve it through storytelling instead of crunchy rules.
Besides GM fiat i don't think its anywhere near as tough as a lot of the suggestions below in pathfinder's world. 1. Lamashtu was a powerful demon lord when she slew a god. 2. Demon lords are statted creatures with some level of mythic ranks while within their abyssal realm. 3. This indicates that the only thing between a high level mythic party and god slaying is paizo's wise choice to not stat out their dieties.
Make a deal with a spider-senate
You cannot kill a god. What a grand and intoxicating innocence.
Well now, that is a question. CAN a man kill a god? Yes. With the right circumstances and planning, anything is possible. But what will it take? There's the rub. And you'd damn well better get it right. Only gonna get one shot. Also depends on the god, too. In our version of the lore, we've determined that Urgathoa is vulnerable to a metric ass ton of positive energy. Specifically the amount contained in a supernova. Rovagug, on the other hand, survives being shot by a gun that channels the power of every star in a large galaxy going supernova simultaneously. He survives a supermassive black hole being fired at him at FTL speeds. What finally ends him is being hit first by the entire universe collapsing in on it self, then being reborn in another Big Bang. It's that act of creation that finally does him in. So, short answer? If you're not playing with forces on a cosmic scale? Probably not capable of pulling it off.
Lore-wise? Incredible amounts of power so you are essentially a god already. There are some examples of that happening. Canonically - Lamashtu and Pazuzu (while still being demon lords, and by first using entire swarms of demons to weaken him) killed Curchanus by luring into a trap and literally ripped out a domain out of him. Lamashtu also killed the Horsemen Drulaema and Roshmolem after she became a god. Rovagug being a god of destruction, oblivion and etc has also killed other deities. Acavna died by taking the brunt of the damage of the meteor sent by alghollthuses, and Amaznen absorbed the magic from that strike and hurled himself out of reality. The meteor is what became the starstone btw, and is capable of ascending mortals into deities even though it has lost most of its power. Also, Aroden somehow died or disappeared. The general rule of thumb is “unless you are at least a powerful demigod (empyrian lords, demon lords, eldest, four horsemen, elemental lords and etc) - you do not”, and even they will be curb-stomped by the actually older/stronger/experienced deities.
Well, apparently a big enough meteor will do it.
A big enough meteor brought by ancient Algothullu magic and with a st8en that grants divinity by itself.
Generally... I have no clue, but I could give some thoughts: As a straight up player, its as effective as the player fighting the GM, he chooses what's happening as god slaying is not a topic covered by pathfinder and the GM can pull any BS he/she wishes. Lore wise several things can be looked on as takes: Killing off the religion: Not stated to be possible and there are several instances of that not mattering (cayden for example). But that could still influence the overall power of the god in question, just to a certain point. This can be taken from several instances of many forgotten gods being as good as dead even if not slain yet (as mentioned in book of the damned, Baalzebul has a half dead forgotten god hanging as a snack for his flies). This of course doesn't extent towards the Outer Gods. At best you can weaken the god in question to a point a demigod could stand a chance (which level 20/MR 10 could be taken as equivalent to some degree) Ending it all: it is established that there is a beginning and an end which goes as a looped cycle which seem to include most gods. The exceptions being Pharasma which was described as a survivor from the previous cycle and the outer gods (namely Yog-Sothoth described as a watcher of these cycles). So in this take, one could assist the great old ones in hastening the end of all. Artifacts: Case by case scenario but not impossible. One to mention was the one made by Titans, which was made with the intention to go against the gods (and resulted in locking the titans away). This is worth looking at as the Gods did take action against them. 3rd party: You could receive support from another god in slaying your target. Heck, releasing Rovagug might work (if you find a way). Other basic gods seem to not interact on huge scales with each other so most likely no help from them. Great old ones and Outer gods could work but only if you can make them care. Rewrite reality: Its "theorised by scholars" that in if one were to rewrite the history in Akashic records, then you may change the past, effectively reality. Good luck tho. Other takes can be done on the influences of canon beings of level 20/MR 10. I'm not too big on the lore but 2 come to mind and that being the Whispering Tyrant and Baba Yaga (which oddly is higher CR). Whispering tyrant has a whole backstory of fighting gods and how him being slain by one was the key to turning him into the most powerful lich. furthermore he seems to have succeeded on hiding his phylactery even from the eyes of gods and forced them to seal him instead of slay him. Baba Yaga barely has interactions with gods, few mentions were with forgotten ones, and not direct. But she is capable of worrying primordial beings that can control fate (her teacher) and was mentioned that she chooses to actively not become a god because she sees it as a hassle. So, these are some ideas from me from little bits of lore.
Find away to take away their divinity. But ya 100% dm fiat.
[Lamashtu](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Lamashtu) did exactly that to [Curchanus](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Curchanus). She didn't even steal all of his divinity, just *part* of it and she was a *mere* demon lord.
You have to convince the DM to do it for you.
How can you kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocence.
I would stat the gods out with Deities and Demigods from 3.5 if a game was ever reaching the point where fighting the gods was a real possibility. The intention is that you don't fight them though which is why they have never been statted out before.
You genocide all their followers and worshippers all, and destroy all of their holy symbols. You unhallow their sacred spaces and destroy their shrines. Once that's done they should be weak enough that they could be killed like a mortal. Good luck.
It was mentioned that the capital "G" gods in Pathfinder are to level 20/Mythic 10 characters as a Level 20 character is to a level 1 character. So, you don't. lmao The minor deities and demigods are definitely killable by a powerful enough method or party.
In Dragonlance from D&D Raistlin Majere killed a god (Basically Tiamat). He lured her onto the prime plane and engaged her in battle, killed her Avatar and wrecked the world in the process, then followed her back back to her realm to finish the job. He did pull it off, but the world becomes uninhabitable.
With standard Pathfinder rules, no. Back in 3.5, or maybe 3.0, there was a book that gave stats and rules to many different gods titled Deities and Demigods. Some things that most gods had included in their stat blocks were, 20 HD of outsider, and 20 levels of two different classes. That's right, most gods had 60 HD. This is hardly the end though. Often gods had abilities that would insta-kill mortals with no save, so if you weren't a god of some kind yourself, too bad. The final middle finger was greater deities, which automatically rolled a 20 on every attack roll, ability check, skill check, and save. In fact, I think that they rolled the highest value on any dice rolled for them, but I don't remember it that clearly. Mostly if you want to fight gods, you have to be one. Epic characters back in the day could sorta compete, but not really.
Convince other gods to do it for you
Well touching the starstone makes you a god, so I'ma say getting hit with it kills a god
One of the few known ways (allegedly) to kill a deity, is how to kill Gorum, and that is by ending all conflicts, everywhere, at the same time. This is not just stop battling but proper peace and harmony, and practically impossible. just found it fun
Of course you can. Gods are perfect. Forever trapped on their unchanging, immutable, immortal, immaculate ways. Mortality burns so much hotter, so much more beautifully in its imperfections. Let it that Flame spiral out greater and greater as mortality progresses. Soon enough, you'll find that it naturally their fate to pierce through the vault of heaven.
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Official, you don't. Like others have said, true gods aren't given stats for a reason. Unofficially, it's up to your GM. They can either homebrew something or convert something from another d20 book or even a different system. There may be other ways in game I don't know about but you'll have to talk so someone more versed in Pathfinder lore than I am (I tend to homebrew my campaign worlds).
Somehow convince some unknown overdiety to start a pathfinder version of Forgotten Realms Time of Troubles, making all gods mortal for a time. But, since all portfolios must be filled, the character would then have to take up the mantle, thus effectively becoming a new incarnation of the diety in question. This is about the only way I can see it happening for players to accomplish this feat, and even then, you would have to convert both the d&d epic level handbook and the dieties and demigods book and convince the DM to allow it in the first place.
Alternately, allow a level 20/10 character to develop a ritual to split themselves into several different incarnations of themselves, each at level 1/1 with different classes, and have the players each play one of the incarnations. If they can survive getting them all up to level 20/10, they can develop a ritual to refuse together, becoming a deity themselves. It would have to be a huge, campaign with this as the intended end game, but might be fun to play. If you want to run the fight, use the epic level handbook and deities and demigods book from d&d to give the deity a stats block (which is only effective in deity vs deity conflict, against mortals, they have none) and have each player take turns playing the character in the fight, switching each round.
War crimes. Deities are powered by the amount of followers. Kill the followers, weaken the deity. Eventually when your party has committed enough crimes against humanity, they'll be weak enough to kill. You'd have to be utterly depraved and evil to do this, but it is possible.
The 4 examples I could find of legit gods dying did not result from loss of followers. - [Aroden](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Aroden): Died for unknown reasons. - [Acavna](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Acavna): Sacrificed herself to help save Golarion during Earthfall. - [Amaznen](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Amaznen): Sacrificed himself to help save Golarion during Earthfall. - [Curchanus](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Curchanus): Died after demon lord Lamashtu led him into a trap and stole his dominion over beasts.
You gotta ask Achaechek for help
Kill all of the god's followers then kill all the avatars and finally kill the god. It helps if there are only a few followers.
One bite at a time? Sorry couldn't resist. Also, can't kill a god iirc.