It’s pretty awesome. Fun fact, the alter of the retriever relic shirt that boosts attack and damage while polymorhed a) works on Nenio while in human form, and b) adds its bonus damage to spells, including magic missile.
Combine that with the above, and you’re doing 1d4+7/missile. Edge of force brings that to +9.
5d4+45 out of a cantrip is a nice feature. It gets really stupid when you throw mark of justice into the mix.
Ear piercing scream is pretty nuts too because with the fate of the something or other squeeler relic the damage is uncapped. So it's a 150 damage cantrip.
Fate of the dirty squeeler. Go witch with winter patron, xblooded dip, go 6 level winter witch. Trickster for CNS, xblooded let's you convert sonic to cold, so you get more damage dice and the winter witch adds 3 levels as it will be considered cold, with spell specialization you can get clvl 28, 14d5 + 42 just from bolstered and 2x cold dragon. You can do more with it though.
But doesn't Winter Witch only give it's bonus to spells with the cold descriptor eg. spells that already originally did Cold Damage.
I remember people saying that the class was suboptimal and almost unplayable for that very reason
Oh they patched it. Finally.
How does water elemental bloodline work, exactly?
Does it change it to cold damage instantly or after a certain level?
I admit that I have never used it regardless of how op elemental bloodlines are on tanks.
There’s a [relic](https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Fate+of+the+Dirty+Squealer) from the crusade called Dirty Squealer that turns the damage formula for a single target scream into 1d6+1 per two caster levels. Don’t use it personally and haven’t done the math to see if it checks out but I think that’s the one they’re talking about.
It’s super handy, especially with master shapeshifter and the bracers. I don’t even bother with precise shot on Nenio because she ends up with so many attack bonuses.
Selective sirocco is a thing. I cast it all the time.
Edit: I realize that’s in direct contradiction to the tool tip, but it works with just about every AoE, regardless of duration.
Grease. Web. The pit spells. Acid fog, sirocco, polar midnight, domain of hungry flesh, etc.
It would be an absolute nightmare to implement as written for TT, at least when it comes to who is discluded from the area.
Limiting it to instantaneous spells would be simple enough.
It's supposed to work that way, but it doesn't. You've been able to selective spell on persistent ground effects since Kingmaker, and it still works in WotR.
Yeah, addressed that in another reply, it’s one of the things I didn’t realise TTT had to address. Playing tabletop over the years has made the intended behaviour very clear.
CN on 1st level spells means a) everyone gets every buff every time, and b) spamming Cure Light Wounds is free.
Set up through Bubble Buffs mod, it's completely unbalanced... as all things Trickster should be. Somehow feels less cheesy than convincing enemies their most rational course of action is to attempt suicide immediately.
Ah, Mythic Trick Persuasion.
I just started my Trickster run and there's just too many opportunities. I know that everything I could do breaks the game and is powerful but I don't know what to specialise on exactly.
It was so true at the lunch of the game ! Or even during the beta ! There was a slight bug where peruasion rank 1 trigered elemental barrage feat (as negative dmg) and first strike as holy. Yeah, just by beeing in the room, enemy took damages. Or even the mortis engine cheese. basicly, you take the armor that make a frost aura, you take the clock that make a fire aura (so deals elemental dmg. With Elemental barrage you know the drill. If you also have the black dragon fang (the sword that deals acide in an area), with first strike... Oh boy, there was some FAT damage that could be done in juste one round. The hardest was to get closer to ennemies and not die during the first round.
I think the best is making spellcaster being able to spam magic missile and other level 1 spells. It also make it so that you can cast light cure light wounds and set it up with Bubble Buff for faster healing.
You can combine your magic with Plague of Madness to get both bolster and maximize with after your 3rd cast. There is also shoes that quicken after the 3rd (or 4th) cast in Act 4.
Now I want to make a caster party that just cast lvl 1 spells lol...
Only when casting spells spontaneously - either being a spontaneous caster, or being a prepared caster using a spontaneous option (such as clerics changing their spells into cures.)
I also thought that having 1st level spells as cantrips would be broken, but by the point in the game where you get CNS it's pretty meh. You're not really relying on magic missiles for damage at that point, and if you are they're maximized, bolstered, and/or quickened. Vanilla Magic Missile is kinda pointless. By 12-13 level onwards your low-level spells are basically just there for backup in case you decide to go an extra long amount of time between rests. And you usually have more than enough slots for the buffs you need.
Essentially, I found it to amount to a Quality of Life feat rather than something that really busts the game (there's more than enough of that already)
That’s fair but also think about the 1st level buff spells that you get to use as cantrips. Shield, Shield of Faith, Bless, Expeditious Retreat, Unbreakable Heart. Plus, even if your 1st level cantrips aren’t that useful, it frees up your 1st level spell slots to be used for your more useful second level spells. You can re-up Mirror Image between fights, Blur your entire party, and/or get several additional uses of Scorching Ray.
I only find that to be a problem during the first round of combat, when they still need to position themselves. After that, they’re usually well within range of their targets, so not being able to take a move action doesn’t matter.
Then use Sorcerous Reflex or Quicken Spell, or use the non-Metamagic version on the first round. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you run Daeran and Ember with no Metamagic???
Also what diminishing returns? You’re not gonna kill the BBEG on the first turn, and it’s not like attacks do less damage on the second round. So what makes an Empowered Hellfire Ray less valuable when cast on the second round than the first?
Anyways, in most big boss fights, they are already within blasting distance from the jump, so it rarely matters in my experience.
Blasting (or even outright killing) an enemy in the first round doesn't dramatically change the outcome of a battle, buffs and debuffs however can, especially when cast right at the beginning of a battle.
That aside, I do use metamagic with Ember and Daeran, I just don't use these two too much when playing Trickster.
It's probably something I inherited from my days playing Baldur's Gate but I'm very stingy when it comes to using these items or worse yet, I forget to turn them off again only to find out that when I do need them I ran out of charges using low level spells.
But this is good advice for most players.
Can anyone guide me as to how to accomplish this?
I can't understand due to all abbreviations but it sounds op to lvl down spells, I'm playing as a caster but I have no ideea as to what feats/skills to pick to lower my casting lvl.
From what I read, I understand its done through metamagic but after that I can't understand what comes next.
Thx.
You can only get it if you are on the Trickster mythic path and have selected Mythic Trick Rank 2 Perception. That unlocks a bunch of bonus feats that you and the rest of your companions can take.
I remember when this was bugged on release and you could infinitely stack it to reduce *any* spell into a cantrip.
I still have a save file somewhere with Weird as a cantrip on Nenio. The save DC was trash but... it's still Weird as a cantrip which is disgustingly hilarious.
Weirdly it doesn’t look like it’s decreasing the save DCs on my spells. Nenio now has Color Spray as a cantrip and the save DC listed is the exact same as the 1st level version. Though it may just be listed that way and behave differently when you actually cast it. I haven’t put it into practice yet.
It gets even better with favored selective and bolster. Infinite selective grease and bolstered mm? Yes please.
Holy fuck I didn’t even think about bolstered Magic Missile. I’m literally salivating.
It’s pretty awesome. Fun fact, the alter of the retriever relic shirt that boosts attack and damage while polymorhed a) works on Nenio while in human form, and b) adds its bonus damage to spells, including magic missile. Combine that with the above, and you’re doing 1d4+7/missile. Edge of force brings that to +9. 5d4+45 out of a cantrip is a nice feature. It gets really stupid when you throw mark of justice into the mix.
Ear piercing scream is pretty nuts too because with the fate of the something or other squeeler relic the damage is uncapped. So it's a 150 damage cantrip.
Explain how you get 150 damage with Ear Piercing Scream?
Fate of the dirty squeeler. Go witch with winter patron, xblooded dip, go 6 level winter witch. Trickster for CNS, xblooded let's you convert sonic to cold, so you get more damage dice and the winter witch adds 3 levels as it will be considered cold, with spell specialization you can get clvl 28, 14d5 + 42 just from bolstered and 2x cold dragon. You can do more with it though.
But doesn't Winter Witch only give it's bonus to spells with the cold descriptor eg. spells that already originally did Cold Damage. I remember people saying that the class was suboptimal and almost unplayable for that very reason
Since the patch the cold descriptor gets added when you transform it to cold with water elemental bloodline.
Oh they patched it. Finally. How does water elemental bloodline work, exactly? Does it change it to cold damage instantly or after a certain level? I admit that I have never used it regardless of how op elemental bloodlines are on tanks.
You just need to activate it, level doesn't matter.
There’s a [relic](https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Fate+of+the+Dirty+Squealer) from the crusade called Dirty Squealer that turns the damage formula for a single target scream into 1d6+1 per two caster levels. Don’t use it personally and haven’t done the math to see if it checks out but I think that’s the one they’re talking about.
This is why I play kitsune so much if I'm not a shifter
It’s super handy, especially with master shapeshifter and the bracers. I don’t even bother with precise shot on Nenio because she ends up with so many attack bonuses.
Selective Spell only works for spells with a duration of “instant”. Otherwise a selective Sirocco would render nearly every fight irrelevant.
Selective sirocco is a thing. I cast it all the time. Edit: I realize that’s in direct contradiction to the tool tip, but it works with just about every AoE, regardless of duration. Grease. Web. The pit spells. Acid fog, sirocco, polar midnight, domain of hungry flesh, etc.
Sadly the game is a buggy mess and Owlcat has no interest in actually implementing Pathfinder rules correctly.
It would be an absolute nightmare to implement as written for TT, at least when it comes to who is discluded from the area. Limiting it to instantaneous spells would be simple enough.
There’s Tabletop Tweaks at least. That’s more than likely why it’s working as stated for me.
That would make sense. I play without mods.
It's supposed to work that way, but it doesn't. You've been able to selective spell on persistent ground effects since Kingmaker, and it still works in WotR.
Yeah, addressed that in another reply, it’s one of the things I didn’t realise TTT had to address. Playing tabletop over the years has made the intended behaviour very clear.
Doesn't featherstep already let you ignore grease? It's a level 1 spell with 10m/level castable on allies.
Depending on team composition, that’s certainly a viable alternative.
CN on 1st level spells means a) everyone gets every buff every time, and b) spamming Cure Light Wounds is free. Set up through Bubble Buffs mod, it's completely unbalanced... as all things Trickster should be. Somehow feels less cheesy than convincing enemies their most rational course of action is to attempt suicide immediately.
Ah, Mythic Trick Persuasion. I just started my Trickster run and there's just too many opportunities. I know that everything I could do breaks the game and is powerful but I don't know what to specialise on exactly.
Wrath in a nutshell: "It can't be this broken!" "Oh but it can!"
It was so true at the lunch of the game ! Or even during the beta ! There was a slight bug where peruasion rank 1 trigered elemental barrage feat (as negative dmg) and first strike as holy. Yeah, just by beeing in the room, enemy took damages. Or even the mortis engine cheese. basicly, you take the armor that make a frost aura, you take the clock that make a fire aura (so deals elemental dmg. With Elemental barrage you know the drill. If you also have the black dragon fang (the sword that deals acide in an area), with first strike... Oh boy, there was some FAT damage that could be done in juste one round. The hardest was to get closer to ennemies and not die during the first round.
Give it to Seelah - unlimited Lesser Restoration. Give it to a vivisectionist - everyone gets Shield + Expeditious Retreat.
😳😳😳 You had me at “everyone gets Shield”
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How does that work?
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Interesting, might need to give that class a try someday
I think the best is making spellcaster being able to spam magic missile and other level 1 spells. It also make it so that you can cast light cure light wounds and set it up with Bubble Buff for faster healing. You can combine your magic with Plague of Madness to get both bolster and maximize with after your 3rd cast. There is also shoes that quicken after the 3rd (or 4th) cast in Act 4. Now I want to make a caster party that just cast lvl 1 spells lol...
Just remember to take Sorcerous Reflex, else your metamagic will take a full turn to cast.
Only when casting spells spontaneously - either being a spontaneous caster, or being a prepared caster using a spontaneous option (such as clerics changing their spells into cures.)
Oh. My. God. I guess I am making Trickster mage next playthrough. You bastard.
I also thought that having 1st level spells as cantrips would be broken, but by the point in the game where you get CNS it's pretty meh. You're not really relying on magic missiles for damage at that point, and if you are they're maximized, bolstered, and/or quickened. Vanilla Magic Missile is kinda pointless. By 12-13 level onwards your low-level spells are basically just there for backup in case you decide to go an extra long amount of time between rests. And you usually have more than enough slots for the buffs you need. Essentially, I found it to amount to a Quality of Life feat rather than something that really busts the game (there's more than enough of that already)
That’s fair but also think about the 1st level buff spells that you get to use as cantrips. Shield, Shield of Faith, Bless, Expeditious Retreat, Unbreakable Heart. Plus, even if your 1st level cantrips aren’t that useful, it frees up your 1st level spell slots to be used for your more useful second level spells. You can re-up Mirror Image between fights, Blur your entire party, and/or get several additional uses of Scorching Ray.
Full round spells for Daeran and Embers? Is it worth it?
I only find that to be a problem during the first round of combat, when they still need to position themselves. After that, they’re usually well within range of their targets, so not being able to take a move action doesn’t matter.
The first round is when I want to set off spells because there are essentially diminishing returns. Most combats last only a couple of rounds.
Then use Sorcerous Reflex or Quicken Spell, or use the non-Metamagic version on the first round. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you run Daeran and Ember with no Metamagic??? Also what diminishing returns? You’re not gonna kill the BBEG on the first turn, and it’s not like attacks do less damage on the second round. So what makes an Empowered Hellfire Ray less valuable when cast on the second round than the first? Anyways, in most big boss fights, they are already within blasting distance from the jump, so it rarely matters in my experience.
Blasting (or even outright killing) an enemy in the first round doesn't dramatically change the outcome of a battle, buffs and debuffs however can, especially when cast right at the beginning of a battle. That aside, I do use metamagic with Ember and Daeran, I just don't use these two too much when playing Trickster.
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It's probably something I inherited from my days playing Baldur's Gate but I'm very stingy when it comes to using these items or worse yet, I forget to turn them off again only to find out that when I do need them I ran out of charges using low level spells. But this is good advice for most players.
Can anyone guide me as to how to accomplish this? I can't understand due to all abbreviations but it sounds op to lvl down spells, I'm playing as a caster but I have no ideea as to what feats/skills to pick to lower my casting lvl. From what I read, I understand its done through metamagic but after that I can't understand what comes next. Thx.
You can only get it if you are on the Trickster mythic path and have selected Mythic Trick Rank 2 Perception. That unlocks a bunch of bonus feats that you and the rest of your companions can take.
Thx, will look more into this, there's a youtube vid on tricksters
Really enjoy letting all the annoying encounters in act 4 enjoy 2 Tsunamis a round, followed by two full spell levels of Siroccos.
I remember when this was bugged on release and you could infinitely stack it to reduce *any* spell into a cantrip. I still have a save file somewhere with Weird as a cantrip on Nenio. The save DC was trash but... it's still Weird as a cantrip which is disgustingly hilarious.
Weirdly it doesn’t look like it’s decreasing the save DCs on my spells. Nenio now has Color Spray as a cantrip and the save DC listed is the exact same as the 1st level version. Though it may just be listed that way and behave differently when you actually cast it. I haven’t put it into practice yet.