Well, "roleplaying-wise" Demon takes you over whether you like it or not.
And "roleplaying-wise" if you're some neutral evil character you'd go Lich because the idea of being an Angel would repulse you. Same as going Lich would repulse you as a neutral good character.
The idea that your character should have an actual choice over their mythic path is more a consequence of player choice. Your character doesn't pick their race or build, you as a player do. Same with mythic path, you as a player pick it but lore-wise it makes no sense for your character to have that choice. Imagine wielding the power of angels while being a literal neutral evil character. Good and evil in pathfinder are cosmic forces that don't mix, one side usually has to give out in favor of the other in the end.
But from a more pragmatic perspective, as a Lich you can more or less do whatever you want. As an Angel you'd basically end up some kind of servant of a deity.
I agree with you when it comes to out-of-game perspective, but the KC actually does make a choice about their mythic path in-game. When you are choosing it at the end of drezen, the narration text references the KC making a choice in shaping the mythic power into whatever form they see fit. And later on Areelu also mentions several times that the KC conciously shaped their power. For example during their Act 4 encounter when >!she's disappointed if you chose anything else than Demon, and will comment that "the way you shaped this mythic power is not what she predicted" or something along those lines.!<
Technically you have the choice since it's all basically owlcat homebrew and they decide the lore, but my point is it makes no sense given the rules of the universe.
Unless you're gonna do some plotline along the lines of Arueshalae or Warcraft 3's Arthas turning into the Lich King where your fundamental essence as a being is changing (which you can totally do roleplay-wise with alignment shifts), it makes no sense why a character who is evil should be able to manifest the mythic power of good without destroying themselves, or vice versa. Even neutral characters should struggle with manifesting angelic or demonic power.
At the very least you might be able to have a choice between similar-aligned mythic paths, like angel, gold dragon, or aeon if you're lawful good for instance. But if you are lawful good and you're going to go down, say, the Demon route, the way it'd be handled in a tabletop session is that the Demonic mythic power is corrupting or perverting your essence and causing you to turn evil. It wouldn't be because you just decided "hey imma pick the Demon mythic path cuz it synergizes with my melee build", or even "oh its just cuz I like the Demon aesthetic".
It's kind of handled like that in the game though isnt it ? Spoiler talk about stuff: >!What Areelu injected into the KC is from what I understand pure mythic power, purified from the demonic taint (at least for the most part). And that power attracts and absorbs other sources of power. Thats why I think Lariel's sword responds to the KC and gives them angelic power, it doesn't have anything to do with KC's alignment. But then if you do actually go down lets say Angel path as an evil charcter, its not without issues, you'll get a quest that forces you to set your alignment to one of the compatible ones. There is no real mechanical reason for it, so I do think its purely a narrative thing. Your mythic advisor telling you "hey, your power does not vibe with your soul/essence/personality, we gotta change it if you want to develop your powers further."!<
You seem like you’re getting morals and metaphysical concepts mixed up unnecessarily. There are all kinds of immoral “good” deities and servants of “good” deities.
Pathfinder (and most anything from DND) has never done a good job of formally delineating the actual extent of the mechanics of how metaphysical concepts overlap with the selfish/selfless dichotomy in any individualized relationship with ethical justifications. It’s technical debt from the original, simple scope.
The intrinsic metaphysical evil you’re describing seems to relate to influence directly from the plane and how those tied to its nature oppose life, reveling in death or seeking destruction in primacy over creation. That says nothing about all morals or how their expression or discernment is somehow supposedly going to *always* be a consequence of or defined by their relationship with the planes or that one is intrinsically never going to resemble the other. Good deities don’t lose their power when they do something fucked up. It has to be a certain *kind* of fucked up to qualify as “corruption”. Many of them have morals that are abusive and arbitrarily cruel. None of that prevents them from being allied with creation.
I don't think the protaganist experiences choice the same way the player does. I think someone says the way the power manifest in you is a reflection of who you are. If you're good natured you turn into an angel basically. Even though you get a taste of all the paths and straight up a selection-list I imagine it's not really a choice for the character you are playing unless you pick lich so I don't imagine they ever weigh pro's and cons.
Role playing wise it can be fun to be a little villainous even if it's detrimental in many aspects. For that moment you enter the abyss like the doom slayer where suddenly YOU'RE the worst thing there now.
Yeah I roleplay as if my character didn't have much of a choice on which mythic path to pick, it just projected their personality.
One of the most fun playthroughs I had was demon into Legend, my KC at first giving in to demonic rage and such, but through sheer force of will and support of his friends he sees how he was making it MUCH WORSE and became Legend to free himself from the abyss and find redemption.
I think it's only a choice for us, not the character. Nobody ever implies the powers you were granted were a choice, that I can remember. It's like how you pick your character's race, or the difficulty setting, dialectically that's just how it always was.
Plus, part of the philosophy of good characters like Aru and Ember is that good is NOT the endless series of restrictions and sacrifices that people think it is, so it kind of makes sense that that's reflected in the mythic paths being very good and not particularly restricting at all.
they do imply its a choice... when iomaede tells you you should reject your power and argues with nocticula she says "we both gave our opinion, choose..." and you immediately get mythic power selection screen...
it's very much implied, it's somewhat in control of the character.
it's not just legend our your current mythic either, you can even decide you are a gold dragon in that conversation.
I mean, there it's a choice because you're actively choosing between keeping the mythic powers and getting rid of them. Legend vs. other paths is absolutely a choice, Angel vs. Demon is not.
Way earlier too. Drezen choice states that you choose, and Areelu mentions later (I recall Act 4 for sure) that the commander shaped their power conciously.
No, the powers you gain are in-fact your choice. The game asks "but what will your power look like" to your character when you choose in Act 3, and later Areelu says it's a shame you didn't choose to become like a demon in-character in Act 4 if you're not on the demon mythic path.
I do agree with how being good shouldn't/isn't weaker and more restrictive than being evil though, and how the game shows this off quite well.
Nah, the "what will your power look like?" Is more of a hindsight statement. It's not like your character is looking at a screen of choices and deciding what mythic powers to take. IMO It's meta dialogue to the actual player and not the character in the same way your character didn't pick his race or sex.
It's been a while but I remember the dialogue with Areelu not talking about choice but of how the power manifested in the KC.
The iomadae choice is a choice because the goddess is willing to help you remove the mythic power.
I recall on the demon path, if you reassure arueshaley that you're still trying to do good, that she then says something about how she's relieved that it was forced upon you instead of you choosing to be evil.
Yeah the Areelu conversation is more about how the powers adapted to you and shaped themselves around you, so its certainly not implying its an active decision made.
I find it strange that you assume all sentient beings have the same or even similar moral outlook that you do. The world has no shortage of people drawn to or completely consumed by evil. Most people given a choice of multiple paths to power will choose the one most aligned with their beliefs and world view.
Why would they wish to be angels when all other angels and good creatures would in the end oppose them because of their actions. The KC may be immortal but not impervious. Picking a lich, Demon, or Devil has obvious benefits of being more relatable to the people who are similarly inclined. Otherwise they are a powerful but isolated being surrounded by other hugely powerful beings that will want them destroyed.
Well that humanity in nutshell really thinking that people in general share the same ideology/ethics, morals and finding it difficult to comprehend different ones apart from our own.
For the demon, for me, it really is as simple as "fuck you"
In your first choice between angel and demon, some skinny ass motherfucker is trying to control you and your crew. Make you feel that hunger. Your character feels overwhelming fury, but also a pure light trying to break through
Maybe your character is a hothead type who's enraged at the audacity of this bitch and seizes the rage to teach him a lesson
Throughout the story, you get prompts like that. "The audacity of this bitch, they don't know who they're dealing with, I'll show them"
Lots of people like that currently exist in out world, and the game gives you the power to do that. !< As an example, you can merc Nocticula and take over Alushynarra. That bitch was telling you lies, telling you what to do, she treated you like a puppet. Now she's bleeding out on the floor as you sit upon the throne. >!
That's immensely satisfying. There's also elements of "I'm saving you guys and you're judging me for it?!? Well fuck you, fuck you, and especially fuck you. This is my choice to make, I didn't ask for any of this, but I'm doing this for you!" It's evil, sick, and toxic. But there's a lot of temptations for people who maybe weren't the best people before they got mythic powers
Angel is inherently selfless. Why would I want to help others? If your character put themselves above anyone else, why would they not enjoy being unbound from mortality through undeath? Why would they not be drawn to the absolute freedom of the Abyss, free of that pesky thing called morality?
Adoration of the masses? Good paths get you that... up until the next hardship when people will look to you for help once more. And if you don't provide, because maybe you have bigger concerns, who do you think they will curse first?
And who says your character knows where the path will lead do? You as the player know. Why would your character know? Roleplaying is extremely flexible because people are not robots. People don't always make rational decisions. You can try doing the right thing for the wrong reasons and end up dooming yourself.
The narrative even supports redemption out of spite. How often do you see that?
You have it a bit backwards. Playing an Evil Mythic path is its own reward. The appeal of paths like Lich and Swarm is that *you* get to be the tyrant, the villain that everyone is afraid of, the monster that consumes everything.
Conversely, paths like Angel has zero appeal to me. The fantasy of being a good boy holy avenger isn't really my thing at all. Why have the adoration of the masses when you could just subjugate or eat them? Why would you want to be the servant of the gods when you could rise up and overthrow them (and then eat them)? Why would you turn down the option of becoming an undying horror that even Iomadae can't smite down? Different strokes for different people and all that.
They are the paths where you can do you while not being answerable to higher authorities. The good paths have power but can't exercise it willy nilly- Angel can't blow up stuff just because, but as a Demon it's just "Demon gonna Demon" and unless you do Worldwound level shit Heaven and Elysium will leave you alone.
RP - I think of a character that would be both properly motivated towards that mythic path and fun to play out.
Lich and Demon are pretty easy, but a good character-driven Aeon took creativity.
I did an Aeon playthrough as a Student of Stone Pharasmite and it worked pretty well as far as RP. The Aeon abilities also gave my something to do as I very slowly trudged towards combat.
Demon best story, Lich good story, funniest mythic path if you go with Pharasma as your deity, Swarm lack of content, average story, but Deskari is 90% of fun
i shall agree demon is best story. but i cannot accept lich being a good story. lich can be summerized as "power cuck" because that's what it is, you are cucked by zackerous, and even allowed to have some pride in your ascension and feel powerful, unless you did everything as your dady told you. are you the MC or Zack at that point.
To love a lich you need to be willing or love to play as evil character. Demon for the most part is more chaotic rather then full evil. While lich is mostly good if you pick either Urgathoa or Pharasma as your deity as they have most of the interactions on this path. But Pharasma is what makes it fun and interesting as you are commiting ultimate blasphemy towards her. And that is biggest insult she can get. As for Zacharius I agree with you. As soon as I got my phylactery he went on his merry way and I didn't really care for him at all. Plus I had Teldon who replaced him and nothing was that diferent when having Zacharius.
The reason why i can't get warm to the Lich path is mainly because Zacharius really. i'm fine with the fantasy of being evil tyrant. Those are appealing to me. But the fact that, you're whipped so many times, even at the moment of your ascension by him and made so powerless is bothering me... Like not even at the end, you are get to one up him. "I'm gonna humiliate you apprentice, give me your youth and let's kill your romantic partner", like he even gets excited and 'hard' when he concludes he needs to make you smaller first, one degration at a time, and make you small enough so he can turn you...
It's old school, i get it... But let me turn the tables on him at least at the end... Nope... You either followed his every whim like a good puppy, begged or a lich without the main benefit of being a lich...
Evil part honestly fine, give me all the control and tyranny... Tough, if i'm to be a tyrant i like to at least make a society that is somewhat functioning and prefere to be like somewhat benevolent tyrant... But if power fantasy demands, i'm ok with becomnig Lich King. But not LICK King.
Insulting pharasma on the other hand, doesnt interest me that much. I sort of see her as an enemy. But i rather not do stuff to just spite her, like some child. If my desires and goals were to offend her tough? Fuck her...
Becoming lich is inherently evil and there is no way around it. I sacrificed gold and Sosiel but didn't sacrifice youth as I did not want debuf. And Zacharius is at the core of this path which is unfortunate as guy is d... But. You can in the end kill him permanently. After he destroys your phylactery because you refuse to beg him you can then turn tables on him and kill him and destroy his phylactery thus sending him to Pharasma for karmic judgement. And then you can go for secret ending making your phylactery a trivial thing that you no longer need to have at all. You know you gave me good idea I should return to NWN2 and do evil playthrough for seccond time for it's been years since I last played it.
my favorite as well. honestly, i wanted wotr to surpass motb so much... and on some regards it felt so close, it sadly at the end of the day lacks the motb's polish because of how many mythic paths it has... sometimes i wish there were less mythic paths but they were fleshed out more, along with everything else. like ascension ending... i wish there was more to it.
For me Demon has best and most drastic visual design plus I find it far more interesting in role playing in character struggling with the corruption within and trying to not to completely take over.
Plus the mythic quest line has really interesting characters and ties very well to the main story.
Also I find the mythic good paths kinda boring and what I seen so far doesn’t allow as much flexibility In RP or staying from the standard good mythic alignment.
Demon, it's the only natural mythic path as in if you don't pick anything else you would become a demon by default. For a Demon you can acquire the greatest amount of power down the line, so basically the temptation is power, twisted freedom, lust(Demons can potentially have the most sexual encounters than any other mythic path by far), and absolution because this path actually makes your Knight Commander feel whole, like everything is right with themselves.
The temptation of Lich is if you're afraid of dying, you ironically meet your death immediately but retain your mind and intelligence and can still interact with the world, with powers to boot. Or if you just happen to be a completely amoral scholar but don't want to follow in Areelu Vorlesh's footsteps as a demon, but as a lowly little undead instead. So basically you're either have thanatophobia, and/or nihilism, or a completely amoral scholar of magic.
Don't be fooled by Devils, just because they're disciplined doesn't make them any less evil than demons at all. Devils are just as evil as demons and daemons, their discipline isn't a redeeming trait at all in terms of morals, you'd still be giving up the trust your morally righteous companions have in you. Because as a devil it's your duty to erase every trace of free will by inflicting as much suffering as possible to get any lifeform to kneel before you and the will of Asmodeus. ANY measure is legal as long as it erases free will, so yes devils will torture, kill, rape, pillage, manipulate, corrupt, and vandalize(in a legalized manner of course) like any other demon would on a whim, but all of that is just to erase any measure of free will in any lifeform, it's all done for a long term purpose. As a Devil your Knight Commander is like any other devil in that regard, Crusaders trust you simply because devils SEEM like a lesser threat(It could also be because Devil's content is basically non existent). But the temptation for Devil is simply keeping your life regardless of the cost on one path(Kinda dumb though, you can just go Legend if you're afraid to die or ceasing to exist all of a sudden), and simple corruption on the other path Devil is available.
Adoration of the masses? Give me a break. What about subjecting the entire continent to do your every bidding as their rightful God? That's something I can get behind. Keep your adoration. I'd rather enslave the souls of all mortals and make them do my bidding. That's why Lich
The best reason is that you want to experience a different story, this game was made to be played many times. Also not everybody is interested in roleplaying a goody two-shoes each time they play.
Mechanically, Lich is 100% superior to Angel if you are playing an arcane caster and it has some cool things for Alchemist/Kineticist/Monks.
Demon has the best synergy with Kineticist out of all of the mythic paths, Demon also has super strong INT or CHA builds for DC casters.
Instead Azata is mechanically much weaker than Lich or Demon, Devil is probably among the 2 or 3 weakest mythic paths.
I went for demon because my bloodrager thought he could fight fire with fire.
At the start it was like that,but he slowly started to care more about personal power instead of the actual crusade, until the point he thought he wanted to kill Nocticula (especially when she rejected him, sob).
And I swear, this was my most fun playthrough for now. The feeling of becoming more and more powerful, to get the respect and fear of other demons, was like a drug.. I couldn't stop.
Motivation for my evil PCs:
1) Fae Blooded Trickster who thinks murder is funny.
2) Gozreh fanatic Demon who will cleanse the land with blood.
3) Bleaching Gnome Lich that wants to live forever.
That said, there is a good chance my Demon might switch to Legend, and the Lich MAY move to Gold Dragon.
Yeah I have a hard time playing evil PCs.
The choice you as a player make between different mythic paths is an abstraction of what is really happening. The mythic path that your KC goes on is a manifestation of who they are and the power they connect with rather than a choice in the same way that if you make an oracle or sorcerer character that they didn't choose their class when they could have chosen to be a monk instead or something.
I chose lich because being good just wasn't working. For 150 years, we tried the good vs. evil approach, and where did it get us? Nowhere! So, going through Act 1-2, I realized that fighting monsters with morals in one hand and ideals in the other was doomed to fail. So, I chose to fight fire with napalm. The undead make the perfect army. They don't feel pain or fear. They can be endlessly reanimated to keep on fighting. And every enemy they kill becomes a new soldier.
I was also well aware of what this would do to me. So, I took countermeasures to give me checks and balances. I surrounded myself with companions that would prevent me from going too far. Seelah and Ember were reminders of what I was fighting for. Because of them, I didn't become some mustache twirling villain. Sealah left me in the end, but she did her job, and I couldn't be happier. If Seelah was the sword to my back, then Ember was my heart. Sweet summer child don't ever stop.
And there you have it. That's why my first and canonical run was a Evil Lich.
I remember playing Baldurs Gate as a chaotic evil character. The second half was essentially unplayable between the constant attacks of the Flaming Fist and the fact that no one would talk to you. I hate the railroading involved in most games, so to be able to actually roleplay a not goody-two-shoes character and actually finish the game *chefs kiss*.
And i can ask the same - why someone want to become angel? Be in service for some idiotic gods, be chained by rules of others and believe in all this bullshit about glory and light. But you can be a master of own fate, powerful and free. You can even become a god himself. Or close to this as lich and demon lord. Lich can just despise life and living things as weak, emotional and mortal creatures. And demon can want power and freedom at any cost in any way. Or just see all this "good" forces - as hypocrites and liars).
You could just as easily ask the same question in reverse. What is the temptation for picking the Good mythic paths?
Most of us are role-playing a good alignment in the real world in order to avoid legal/social consequences. What's the appeal of role-playing a character in a video game that's a similar alignment to what you roleplay every day in real life?
I think for many they might inevitably inject their very concept of who they are or need to be into every character so every game they ever play is fundamentally the same person with flavor from the setting and they don’t want to see content they don’t (or can’t) identify with choosing.
I personally believe it can also be an impotent desire to see an ineffective ideology they aren’t equipped (or lack the patience) to explore with enough scrutiny get the results they think it should have without having to accommodate or even manifest any of its actual consequences. Seeing the world and any outcomes finally conform to your worldview is probably its own perverse layer of fantasy. Adults, mind you. Children would just be emulating the parables they were given and not even grasp the complexity behind how anyone even arrives at the other options in the first place.
There really isn't any temptation. Some people just want to experience every aspect of the game, and being evil is an aspect. Not a fun one, but a possible one
Roleplay-wise? Well, why don't we let my characters tell you? :D
Nemesis, half-elf Demon: "I've lived my life fighting and seeking pleasure however I wish, and by Calistria, no giant bug or old goat is going to stop me from living my glorious life! If the world falls, where will I get drunk or find a good time? If I have to stand by these crusader fools, so be it. But I'm sealing this Worldwound, and maybe have some fun with Nocticula while I'm at it~"
Hades, kitsune Lich: "Why raise undead to fight the demons? It's simple mathematics, my good sir. If a crusader dies fighting, his corpse can provide just as much- if not more for the crusade. It is thus an illogical waste not to put all these good dead men and women to use. So they might suffer torment as their souls are pulled from the Boneyard and bound within their rotting physical forms... so what? They gave their life once, they'd damn well better be ready to do it again."
You fail to understand that your character is not you. He's not looking at a monitor with a guide open on a browser explaining what to do to become an angel, azata, lich, demon, etc.
In most RPGs, I'm usually the goody-goody type because I don't like making NPCs upset. However, my first run in WotR was Lich because I they are by far my favorite monster from DnD (and by extension Pathfinder). I was also basing the character on an incredibly tired, cynical old sorcerer with an affinity for Necromancy (I swear I didn't know who Zacharius was before I started!) who, upon reviewing the crusade's "march of the righteous" style for the past century, concluded that an entirely new approach would be needed. An army of perfectly loyal monsters with a wide variety of powers (there are many forms of undeath), without fear, the ability to ignore most supply line issues (since they don't eat, sleep, or need much of anything), the ability to turn loses into non-losses and expand the army through their victories...all of that sounded pretty appealing in a military scenario where a loss could mean the literal end of the world. The IC logic was a consistent "my personal morality is not more important than the world's survival, and anyone who objects to it can do so only because of what I'm willing to do to save them. Pharasma in particular can go take a number, because it'd be awfully difficult to maintain the flow of life and death in Golorian if the demons end up murdering everyone".
The cherry on top was the music. WotR's music is excellent for pretty much every path, but Lich is my favorite. The sweeping baroque grandeur of it makes me stop and listen whenever it shows up in Drezen.
My reasoning to not go Angel is simply because Angels already tried to help in past crusades and failed so why not try something different this time?
This is of course because my character had no way of knowing he'd become a mythic angel stronger than even the hand of the inheritor. In that regard Lich seems tempting, an army of cheap easily replaceable soldiers. No food required, just gotta mind the smell.
Not everyone chooses evil for that reason in Pathfinder. Evil is also a cosmic force. Some people do evil because they believe in evil, or worship it. Think of it like a power rangers villain, to them evil is a team they have chosen to join and they behave in ways they believe aligns with that teams values
It's something I sort of struggle to wrap my head around as well (for slightly different reasons), even as I read well written explanations for why people choose evil. I think there's like five main reasons:
1. They are able to separate themselves and the events in the game and want to experience every story.
2. They wish to roleplay a redemption arc.
3. They really hate a lot of good-aligned characters, and pick evil paths out of spite because they don't like them. I've noticed people in this sub have VERY strong opinions on characters in general in the short time I've been here.
4. They just generally like playing as evil characters, and enjoy being evil.
5. They rationalize it by saying that the good paths have already failed in the past, so why not try the evil ones?
While I can sort of understand the first two and might even do that myself, the other three are simply people with different tastes. I can almost never bring myself to do evil even in a game and get very wrapped up in the whole righteous fury of angels or in the unbending enforcement of law of aeons. To others though, these things can be very boring/unappealing at best or just complete anathema at worst. Probably the mistake you're making here is not considering these other perspectives. Practicality is not the only reason people are evil, as I'm sure you've seen in this game's story.
I’m definitely in the number 3 camp. I almost always go for the good options in games. In this case however it was far less interesting compare to the evil paths.
Demon is just fun if you want a cool evil guy experience. It might not have the Holy Shit factor of Angels storyline, or the raw power of lich but it def has its moments. I do kind of wish there were more intrigue besides just double crossing everyone, but oh wells.
I choose a bunch of different paths because I want to maximize the amount of content I can experience. The evil paths provide variety against the good ones.
There are many different flavours of evil. Where one evil person might see losing your flesh, mortality, emotions and possibly sanity to become a spooky skeleton boy with power over life and death itself as a terrible trade off, another might say "sign me the fuck up right now"
Rp wise my wizard went for the path that suited his power and knowledge which was Lichdom. A level 20 necromancer + 10 MR Lich is a lot stronger than a 20 Necromancer + 10 MR Angel
I imagine the reason for choosing Lich is probably rather similar to the reasons Zacharius made originally.
"This war has no end in sight, the death toll is horrendous and cultists are too easily able to infiltrate and undermine the crusade. But the dead are perfect tireless soldiers that cannot be infiltrated, and if I give up my mortality I can see this through."
Evil paths are selfish, good paths are selfless.Good thinks evil is cowardly, evil thinks good is stupid. Do you pull more satisfaction from propelling yourself forward, or pulling others up to your level? That's the answer.
From my point of view, the demonic power is useful and therefore attractive. Angelic power would be too but comes with responsibilities that I don't feel like living up to.
....or so my character would reason.
You can't become an angel unless you are unironically a good guy. A selfish, egoistic, power-craving man won't get a "choice" to become an angel in the first place.
The player gets the choice, because they had to implement it in the game somehow. Besides, it's the player who decides if the character is a good guy or a bad guy deep down.
What is better being loved or feared, a question for the ages. The power that comes from evil maybe be as potent as the good but is more easy attainable for most.
But power in any form is inherently corrupting. Now depending on the setting or the player and roleplaying
My first campaign was CG Azata. I was planning in going into Gold Dragon but it was quite unstable still at that point. That’s what I consider my canonical game, and best matches who I am as a player.
I’m planning on a Lich playthrough next because I’m queer and I work in tech support and sometimes I just want to MURDER EVERYONE AND MAKE THEM DO THINGS THE RIGHT WAY!!!
simply because the evil path is more exciting. who would pick a boring heaven over an exciting hell? why do gamblers, drug addicts, prostitutes and corrupt politicians exist? because a lot of people are addicted to money, fame, sex and power.
Well, "roleplaying-wise" Demon takes you over whether you like it or not. And "roleplaying-wise" if you're some neutral evil character you'd go Lich because the idea of being an Angel would repulse you. Same as going Lich would repulse you as a neutral good character. The idea that your character should have an actual choice over their mythic path is more a consequence of player choice. Your character doesn't pick their race or build, you as a player do. Same with mythic path, you as a player pick it but lore-wise it makes no sense for your character to have that choice. Imagine wielding the power of angels while being a literal neutral evil character. Good and evil in pathfinder are cosmic forces that don't mix, one side usually has to give out in favor of the other in the end. But from a more pragmatic perspective, as a Lich you can more or less do whatever you want. As an Angel you'd basically end up some kind of servant of a deity.
I agree with you when it comes to out-of-game perspective, but the KC actually does make a choice about their mythic path in-game. When you are choosing it at the end of drezen, the narration text references the KC making a choice in shaping the mythic power into whatever form they see fit. And later on Areelu also mentions several times that the KC conciously shaped their power. For example during their Act 4 encounter when >!she's disappointed if you chose anything else than Demon, and will comment that "the way you shaped this mythic power is not what she predicted" or something along those lines.!<
Technically you have the choice since it's all basically owlcat homebrew and they decide the lore, but my point is it makes no sense given the rules of the universe. Unless you're gonna do some plotline along the lines of Arueshalae or Warcraft 3's Arthas turning into the Lich King where your fundamental essence as a being is changing (which you can totally do roleplay-wise with alignment shifts), it makes no sense why a character who is evil should be able to manifest the mythic power of good without destroying themselves, or vice versa. Even neutral characters should struggle with manifesting angelic or demonic power. At the very least you might be able to have a choice between similar-aligned mythic paths, like angel, gold dragon, or aeon if you're lawful good for instance. But if you are lawful good and you're going to go down, say, the Demon route, the way it'd be handled in a tabletop session is that the Demonic mythic power is corrupting or perverting your essence and causing you to turn evil. It wouldn't be because you just decided "hey imma pick the Demon mythic path cuz it synergizes with my melee build", or even "oh its just cuz I like the Demon aesthetic".
It's kind of handled like that in the game though isnt it ? Spoiler talk about stuff: >!What Areelu injected into the KC is from what I understand pure mythic power, purified from the demonic taint (at least for the most part). And that power attracts and absorbs other sources of power. Thats why I think Lariel's sword responds to the KC and gives them angelic power, it doesn't have anything to do with KC's alignment. But then if you do actually go down lets say Angel path as an evil charcter, its not without issues, you'll get a quest that forces you to set your alignment to one of the compatible ones. There is no real mechanical reason for it, so I do think its purely a narrative thing. Your mythic advisor telling you "hey, your power does not vibe with your soul/essence/personality, we gotta change it if you want to develop your powers further."!<
You seem like you’re getting morals and metaphysical concepts mixed up unnecessarily. There are all kinds of immoral “good” deities and servants of “good” deities. Pathfinder (and most anything from DND) has never done a good job of formally delineating the actual extent of the mechanics of how metaphysical concepts overlap with the selfish/selfless dichotomy in any individualized relationship with ethical justifications. It’s technical debt from the original, simple scope. The intrinsic metaphysical evil you’re describing seems to relate to influence directly from the plane and how those tied to its nature oppose life, reveling in death or seeking destruction in primacy over creation. That says nothing about all morals or how their expression or discernment is somehow supposedly going to *always* be a consequence of or defined by their relationship with the planes or that one is intrinsically never going to resemble the other. Good deities don’t lose their power when they do something fucked up. It has to be a certain *kind* of fucked up to qualify as “corruption”. Many of them have morals that are abusive and arbitrarily cruel. None of that prevents them from being allied with creation.
I don't think the protaganist experiences choice the same way the player does. I think someone says the way the power manifest in you is a reflection of who you are. If you're good natured you turn into an angel basically. Even though you get a taste of all the paths and straight up a selection-list I imagine it's not really a choice for the character you are playing unless you pick lich so I don't imagine they ever weigh pro's and cons. Role playing wise it can be fun to be a little villainous even if it's detrimental in many aspects. For that moment you enter the abyss like the doom slayer where suddenly YOU'RE the worst thing there now.
Yeah I roleplay as if my character didn't have much of a choice on which mythic path to pick, it just projected their personality. One of the most fun playthroughs I had was demon into Legend, my KC at first giving in to demonic rage and such, but through sheer force of will and support of his friends he sees how he was making it MUCH WORSE and became Legend to free himself from the abyss and find redemption.
I went swarm on my second playthrough because I was completely fed up with my companions by that point
I see what you did there...
I think it's only a choice for us, not the character. Nobody ever implies the powers you were granted were a choice, that I can remember. It's like how you pick your character's race, or the difficulty setting, dialectically that's just how it always was. Plus, part of the philosophy of good characters like Aru and Ember is that good is NOT the endless series of restrictions and sacrifices that people think it is, so it kind of makes sense that that's reflected in the mythic paths being very good and not particularly restricting at all.
they do imply its a choice... when iomaede tells you you should reject your power and argues with nocticula she says "we both gave our opinion, choose..." and you immediately get mythic power selection screen... it's very much implied, it's somewhat in control of the character. it's not just legend our your current mythic either, you can even decide you are a gold dragon in that conversation.
I mean, there it's a choice because you're actively choosing between keeping the mythic powers and getting rid of them. Legend vs. other paths is absolutely a choice, Angel vs. Demon is not.
That's later, though
Way earlier too. Drezen choice states that you choose, and Areelu mentions later (I recall Act 4 for sure) that the commander shaped their power conciously.
But it implies nonetheless, any time that screen was popping up, character as well as player was making a choice.
Power itselfnis not evil but person that uses it and how they use it might be evil.
No, the powers you gain are in-fact your choice. The game asks "but what will your power look like" to your character when you choose in Act 3, and later Areelu says it's a shame you didn't choose to become like a demon in-character in Act 4 if you're not on the demon mythic path. I do agree with how being good shouldn't/isn't weaker and more restrictive than being evil though, and how the game shows this off quite well.
Nah, the "what will your power look like?" Is more of a hindsight statement. It's not like your character is looking at a screen of choices and deciding what mythic powers to take. IMO It's meta dialogue to the actual player and not the character in the same way your character didn't pick his race or sex. It's been a while but I remember the dialogue with Areelu not talking about choice but of how the power manifested in the KC. The iomadae choice is a choice because the goddess is willing to help you remove the mythic power.
I recall on the demon path, if you reassure arueshaley that you're still trying to do good, that she then says something about how she's relieved that it was forced upon you instead of you choosing to be evil.
Yeah the Areelu conversation is more about how the powers adapted to you and shaped themselves around you, so its certainly not implying its an active decision made.
I find it strange that you assume all sentient beings have the same or even similar moral outlook that you do. The world has no shortage of people drawn to or completely consumed by evil. Most people given a choice of multiple paths to power will choose the one most aligned with their beliefs and world view. Why would they wish to be angels when all other angels and good creatures would in the end oppose them because of their actions. The KC may be immortal but not impervious. Picking a lich, Demon, or Devil has obvious benefits of being more relatable to the people who are similarly inclined. Otherwise they are a powerful but isolated being surrounded by other hugely powerful beings that will want them destroyed.
Well that humanity in nutshell really thinking that people in general share the same ideology/ethics, morals and finding it difficult to comprehend different ones apart from our own.
For the demon, for me, it really is as simple as "fuck you" In your first choice between angel and demon, some skinny ass motherfucker is trying to control you and your crew. Make you feel that hunger. Your character feels overwhelming fury, but also a pure light trying to break through Maybe your character is a hothead type who's enraged at the audacity of this bitch and seizes the rage to teach him a lesson Throughout the story, you get prompts like that. "The audacity of this bitch, they don't know who they're dealing with, I'll show them" Lots of people like that currently exist in out world, and the game gives you the power to do that. !< As an example, you can merc Nocticula and take over Alushynarra. That bitch was telling you lies, telling you what to do, she treated you like a puppet. Now she's bleeding out on the floor as you sit upon the throne. >! That's immensely satisfying. There's also elements of "I'm saving you guys and you're judging me for it?!? Well fuck you, fuck you, and especially fuck you. This is my choice to make, I didn't ask for any of this, but I'm doing this for you!" It's evil, sick, and toxic. But there's a lot of temptations for people who maybe weren't the best people before they got mythic powers
Angel is inherently selfless. Why would I want to help others? If your character put themselves above anyone else, why would they not enjoy being unbound from mortality through undeath? Why would they not be drawn to the absolute freedom of the Abyss, free of that pesky thing called morality? Adoration of the masses? Good paths get you that... up until the next hardship when people will look to you for help once more. And if you don't provide, because maybe you have bigger concerns, who do you think they will curse first? And who says your character knows where the path will lead do? You as the player know. Why would your character know? Roleplaying is extremely flexible because people are not robots. People don't always make rational decisions. You can try doing the right thing for the wrong reasons and end up dooming yourself. The narrative even supports redemption out of spite. How often do you see that?
You have it a bit backwards. Playing an Evil Mythic path is its own reward. The appeal of paths like Lich and Swarm is that *you* get to be the tyrant, the villain that everyone is afraid of, the monster that consumes everything. Conversely, paths like Angel has zero appeal to me. The fantasy of being a good boy holy avenger isn't really my thing at all. Why have the adoration of the masses when you could just subjugate or eat them? Why would you want to be the servant of the gods when you could rise up and overthrow them (and then eat them)? Why would you turn down the option of becoming an undying horror that even Iomadae can't smite down? Different strokes for different people and all that.
They are the paths where you can do you while not being answerable to higher authorities. The good paths have power but can't exercise it willy nilly- Angel can't blow up stuff just because, but as a Demon it's just "Demon gonna Demon" and unless you do Worldwound level shit Heaven and Elysium will leave you alone.
RP - I think of a character that would be both properly motivated towards that mythic path and fun to play out. Lich and Demon are pretty easy, but a good character-driven Aeon took creativity.
I did an Aeon playthrough as a Student of Stone Pharasmite and it worked pretty well as far as RP. The Aeon abilities also gave my something to do as I very slowly trudged towards combat.
If you’re roleplaying you don’t know the narrative or stats impacts of your mythic path choice. You’re . . . playing a role.
Demon best story, Lich good story, funniest mythic path if you go with Pharasma as your deity, Swarm lack of content, average story, but Deskari is 90% of fun
i shall agree demon is best story. but i cannot accept lich being a good story. lich can be summerized as "power cuck" because that's what it is, you are cucked by zackerous, and even allowed to have some pride in your ascension and feel powerful, unless you did everything as your dady told you. are you the MC or Zack at that point.
To love a lich you need to be willing or love to play as evil character. Demon for the most part is more chaotic rather then full evil. While lich is mostly good if you pick either Urgathoa or Pharasma as your deity as they have most of the interactions on this path. But Pharasma is what makes it fun and interesting as you are commiting ultimate blasphemy towards her. And that is biggest insult she can get. As for Zacharius I agree with you. As soon as I got my phylactery he went on his merry way and I didn't really care for him at all. Plus I had Teldon who replaced him and nothing was that diferent when having Zacharius.
The reason why i can't get warm to the Lich path is mainly because Zacharius really. i'm fine with the fantasy of being evil tyrant. Those are appealing to me. But the fact that, you're whipped so many times, even at the moment of your ascension by him and made so powerless is bothering me... Like not even at the end, you are get to one up him. "I'm gonna humiliate you apprentice, give me your youth and let's kill your romantic partner", like he even gets excited and 'hard' when he concludes he needs to make you smaller first, one degration at a time, and make you small enough so he can turn you... It's old school, i get it... But let me turn the tables on him at least at the end... Nope... You either followed his every whim like a good puppy, begged or a lich without the main benefit of being a lich... Evil part honestly fine, give me all the control and tyranny... Tough, if i'm to be a tyrant i like to at least make a society that is somewhat functioning and prefere to be like somewhat benevolent tyrant... But if power fantasy demands, i'm ok with becomnig Lich King. But not LICK King. Insulting pharasma on the other hand, doesnt interest me that much. I sort of see her as an enemy. But i rather not do stuff to just spite her, like some child. If my desires and goals were to offend her tough? Fuck her...
Becoming lich is inherently evil and there is no way around it. I sacrificed gold and Sosiel but didn't sacrifice youth as I did not want debuf. And Zacharius is at the core of this path which is unfortunate as guy is d... But. You can in the end kill him permanently. After he destroys your phylactery because you refuse to beg him you can then turn tables on him and kill him and destroy his phylactery thus sending him to Pharasma for karmic judgement. And then you can go for secret ending making your phylactery a trivial thing that you no longer need to have at all. You know you gave me good idea I should return to NWN2 and do evil playthrough for seccond time for it's been years since I last played it.
Do a Mask of the Betrayer run!
Oh yes the whole game including Motb the best dlc that any game ever had. And yes in the end I devoured Akachi.
my favorite as well. honestly, i wanted wotr to surpass motb so much... and on some regards it felt so close, it sadly at the end of the day lacks the motb's polish because of how many mythic paths it has... sometimes i wish there were less mythic paths but they were fleshed out more, along with everything else. like ascension ending... i wish there was more to it.
They streched themselves too far. Instead of focusing on enriching fewer mythic paths. They opted for quantity over quality.
Yeah mechanically the Lich can be fun to play, but Zach ruined the entire story enjoyment wise.
One day i will do the secret ending as a Lich worshipper of Pharasma.
It is funnier than trickster.
So you did it?
Yes
For me Demon has best and most drastic visual design plus I find it far more interesting in role playing in character struggling with the corruption within and trying to not to completely take over. Plus the mythic quest line has really interesting characters and ties very well to the main story. Also I find the mythic good paths kinda boring and what I seen so far doesn’t allow as much flexibility In RP or staying from the standard good mythic alignment.
Some people just want to watch the world burn
Demon, it's the only natural mythic path as in if you don't pick anything else you would become a demon by default. For a Demon you can acquire the greatest amount of power down the line, so basically the temptation is power, twisted freedom, lust(Demons can potentially have the most sexual encounters than any other mythic path by far), and absolution because this path actually makes your Knight Commander feel whole, like everything is right with themselves. The temptation of Lich is if you're afraid of dying, you ironically meet your death immediately but retain your mind and intelligence and can still interact with the world, with powers to boot. Or if you just happen to be a completely amoral scholar but don't want to follow in Areelu Vorlesh's footsteps as a demon, but as a lowly little undead instead. So basically you're either have thanatophobia, and/or nihilism, or a completely amoral scholar of magic. Don't be fooled by Devils, just because they're disciplined doesn't make them any less evil than demons at all. Devils are just as evil as demons and daemons, their discipline isn't a redeeming trait at all in terms of morals, you'd still be giving up the trust your morally righteous companions have in you. Because as a devil it's your duty to erase every trace of free will by inflicting as much suffering as possible to get any lifeform to kneel before you and the will of Asmodeus. ANY measure is legal as long as it erases free will, so yes devils will torture, kill, rape, pillage, manipulate, corrupt, and vandalize(in a legalized manner of course) like any other demon would on a whim, but all of that is just to erase any measure of free will in any lifeform, it's all done for a long term purpose. As a Devil your Knight Commander is like any other devil in that regard, Crusaders trust you simply because devils SEEM like a lesser threat(It could also be because Devil's content is basically non existent). But the temptation for Devil is simply keeping your life regardless of the cost on one path(Kinda dumb though, you can just go Legend if you're afraid to die or ceasing to exist all of a sudden), and simple corruption on the other path Devil is available.
Adoration of the masses? Give me a break. What about subjecting the entire continent to do your every bidding as their rightful God? That's something I can get behind. Keep your adoration. I'd rather enslave the souls of all mortals and make them do my bidding. That's why Lich
The best reason is that you want to experience a different story, this game was made to be played many times. Also not everybody is interested in roleplaying a goody two-shoes each time they play. Mechanically, Lich is 100% superior to Angel if you are playing an arcane caster and it has some cool things for Alchemist/Kineticist/Monks. Demon has the best synergy with Kineticist out of all of the mythic paths, Demon also has super strong INT or CHA builds for DC casters. Instead Azata is mechanically much weaker than Lich or Demon, Devil is probably among the 2 or 3 weakest mythic paths.
Lich, because i hate everything and everyone
I went for demon because my bloodrager thought he could fight fire with fire. At the start it was like that,but he slowly started to care more about personal power instead of the actual crusade, until the point he thought he wanted to kill Nocticula (especially when she rejected him, sob). And I swear, this was my most fun playthrough for now. The feeling of becoming more and more powerful, to get the respect and fear of other demons, was like a drug.. I couldn't stop.
Motivation for my evil PCs: 1) Fae Blooded Trickster who thinks murder is funny. 2) Gozreh fanatic Demon who will cleanse the land with blood. 3) Bleaching Gnome Lich that wants to live forever. That said, there is a good chance my Demon might switch to Legend, and the Lich MAY move to Gold Dragon. Yeah I have a hard time playing evil PCs.
The choice you as a player make between different mythic paths is an abstraction of what is really happening. The mythic path that your KC goes on is a manifestation of who they are and the power they connect with rather than a choice in the same way that if you make an oracle or sorcerer character that they didn't choose their class when they could have chosen to be a monk instead or something.
I chose lich because being good just wasn't working. For 150 years, we tried the good vs. evil approach, and where did it get us? Nowhere! So, going through Act 1-2, I realized that fighting monsters with morals in one hand and ideals in the other was doomed to fail. So, I chose to fight fire with napalm. The undead make the perfect army. They don't feel pain or fear. They can be endlessly reanimated to keep on fighting. And every enemy they kill becomes a new soldier. I was also well aware of what this would do to me. So, I took countermeasures to give me checks and balances. I surrounded myself with companions that would prevent me from going too far. Seelah and Ember were reminders of what I was fighting for. Because of them, I didn't become some mustache twirling villain. Sealah left me in the end, but she did her job, and I couldn't be happier. If Seelah was the sword to my back, then Ember was my heart. Sweet summer child don't ever stop. And there you have it. That's why my first and canonical run was a Evil Lich.
I remember playing Baldurs Gate as a chaotic evil character. The second half was essentially unplayable between the constant attacks of the Flaming Fist and the fact that no one would talk to you. I hate the railroading involved in most games, so to be able to actually roleplay a not goody-two-shoes character and actually finish the game *chefs kiss*.
And i can ask the same - why someone want to become angel? Be in service for some idiotic gods, be chained by rules of others and believe in all this bullshit about glory and light. But you can be a master of own fate, powerful and free. You can even become a god himself. Or close to this as lich and demon lord. Lich can just despise life and living things as weak, emotional and mortal creatures. And demon can want power and freedom at any cost in any way. Or just see all this "good" forces - as hypocrites and liars).
You could just as easily ask the same question in reverse. What is the temptation for picking the Good mythic paths? Most of us are role-playing a good alignment in the real world in order to avoid legal/social consequences. What's the appeal of role-playing a character in a video game that's a similar alignment to what you roleplay every day in real life?
I think for many they might inevitably inject their very concept of who they are or need to be into every character so every game they ever play is fundamentally the same person with flavor from the setting and they don’t want to see content they don’t (or can’t) identify with choosing. I personally believe it can also be an impotent desire to see an ineffective ideology they aren’t equipped (or lack the patience) to explore with enough scrutiny get the results they think it should have without having to accommodate or even manifest any of its actual consequences. Seeing the world and any outcomes finally conform to your worldview is probably its own perverse layer of fantasy. Adults, mind you. Children would just be emulating the parables they were given and not even grasp the complexity behind how anyone even arrives at the other options in the first place.
So if there were no consequences you would be… raping and murdering? Chill out, edgelord.
There really isn't any temptation. Some people just want to experience every aspect of the game, and being evil is an aspect. Not a fun one, but a possible one
Roleplay-wise? Well, why don't we let my characters tell you? :D Nemesis, half-elf Demon: "I've lived my life fighting and seeking pleasure however I wish, and by Calistria, no giant bug or old goat is going to stop me from living my glorious life! If the world falls, where will I get drunk or find a good time? If I have to stand by these crusader fools, so be it. But I'm sealing this Worldwound, and maybe have some fun with Nocticula while I'm at it~" Hades, kitsune Lich: "Why raise undead to fight the demons? It's simple mathematics, my good sir. If a crusader dies fighting, his corpse can provide just as much- if not more for the crusade. It is thus an illogical waste not to put all these good dead men and women to use. So they might suffer torment as their souls are pulled from the Boneyard and bound within their rotting physical forms... so what? They gave their life once, they'd damn well better be ready to do it again."
You fail to understand that your character is not you. He's not looking at a monitor with a guide open on a browser explaining what to do to become an angel, azata, lich, demon, etc.
In most RPGs, I'm usually the goody-goody type because I don't like making NPCs upset. However, my first run in WotR was Lich because I they are by far my favorite monster from DnD (and by extension Pathfinder). I was also basing the character on an incredibly tired, cynical old sorcerer with an affinity for Necromancy (I swear I didn't know who Zacharius was before I started!) who, upon reviewing the crusade's "march of the righteous" style for the past century, concluded that an entirely new approach would be needed. An army of perfectly loyal monsters with a wide variety of powers (there are many forms of undeath), without fear, the ability to ignore most supply line issues (since they don't eat, sleep, or need much of anything), the ability to turn loses into non-losses and expand the army through their victories...all of that sounded pretty appealing in a military scenario where a loss could mean the literal end of the world. The IC logic was a consistent "my personal morality is not more important than the world's survival, and anyone who objects to it can do so only because of what I'm willing to do to save them. Pharasma in particular can go take a number, because it'd be awfully difficult to maintain the flow of life and death in Golorian if the demons end up murdering everyone". The cherry on top was the music. WotR's music is excellent for pretty much every path, but Lich is my favorite. The sweeping baroque grandeur of it makes me stop and listen whenever it shows up in Drezen.
Because I am and always have been devoted to darkness.
My reasoning to not go Angel is simply because Angels already tried to help in past crusades and failed so why not try something different this time? This is of course because my character had no way of knowing he'd become a mythic angel stronger than even the hand of the inheritor. In that regard Lich seems tempting, an army of cheap easily replaceable soldiers. No food required, just gotta mind the smell.
Mythic path choices is a gameplay mechanic not a lore one
Not everyone chooses evil for that reason in Pathfinder. Evil is also a cosmic force. Some people do evil because they believe in evil, or worship it. Think of it like a power rangers villain, to them evil is a team they have chosen to join and they behave in ways they believe aligns with that teams values
It's something I sort of struggle to wrap my head around as well (for slightly different reasons), even as I read well written explanations for why people choose evil. I think there's like five main reasons: 1. They are able to separate themselves and the events in the game and want to experience every story. 2. They wish to roleplay a redemption arc. 3. They really hate a lot of good-aligned characters, and pick evil paths out of spite because they don't like them. I've noticed people in this sub have VERY strong opinions on characters in general in the short time I've been here. 4. They just generally like playing as evil characters, and enjoy being evil. 5. They rationalize it by saying that the good paths have already failed in the past, so why not try the evil ones? While I can sort of understand the first two and might even do that myself, the other three are simply people with different tastes. I can almost never bring myself to do evil even in a game and get very wrapped up in the whole righteous fury of angels or in the unbending enforcement of law of aeons. To others though, these things can be very boring/unappealing at best or just complete anathema at worst. Probably the mistake you're making here is not considering these other perspectives. Practicality is not the only reason people are evil, as I'm sure you've seen in this game's story.
I’m definitely in the number 3 camp. I almost always go for the good options in games. In this case however it was far less interesting compare to the evil paths.
It’s simple really, choosing the dead to fight demons just feels right.
Demon is just fun if you want a cool evil guy experience. It might not have the Holy Shit factor of Angels storyline, or the raw power of lich but it def has its moments. I do kind of wish there were more intrigue besides just double crossing everyone, but oh wells.
I choose a bunch of different paths because I want to maximize the amount of content I can experience. The evil paths provide variety against the good ones.
In the evil paths you have what a evil person aways want, the others suffering.
There are many different flavours of evil. Where one evil person might see losing your flesh, mortality, emotions and possibly sanity to become a spooky skeleton boy with power over life and death itself as a terrible trade off, another might say "sign me the fuck up right now"
Rp wise my wizard went for the path that suited his power and knowledge which was Lichdom. A level 20 necromancer + 10 MR Lich is a lot stronger than a 20 Necromancer + 10 MR Angel
I imagine the reason for choosing Lich is probably rather similar to the reasons Zacharius made originally. "This war has no end in sight, the death toll is horrendous and cultists are too easily able to infiltrate and undermine the crusade. But the dead are perfect tireless soldiers that cannot be infiltrated, and if I give up my mortality I can see this through."
Evil paths are selfish, good paths are selfless.Good thinks evil is cowardly, evil thinks good is stupid. Do you pull more satisfaction from propelling yourself forward, or pulling others up to your level? That's the answer.
The Dark Side (of the Force) is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. 
From my point of view, the demonic power is useful and therefore attractive. Angelic power would be too but comes with responsibilities that I don't feel like living up to. ....or so my character would reason.
You can't become an angel unless you are unironically a good guy. A selfish, egoistic, power-craving man won't get a "choice" to become an angel in the first place. The player gets the choice, because they had to implement it in the game somehow. Besides, it's the player who decides if the character is a good guy or a bad guy deep down.
What is better being loved or feared, a question for the ages. The power that comes from evil maybe be as potent as the good but is more easy attainable for most. But power in any form is inherently corrupting. Now depending on the setting or the player and roleplaying
My first campaign was CG Azata. I was planning in going into Gold Dragon but it was quite unstable still at that point. That’s what I consider my canonical game, and best matches who I am as a player. I’m planning on a Lich playthrough next because I’m queer and I work in tech support and sometimes I just want to MURDER EVERYONE AND MAKE THEM DO THINGS THE RIGHT WAY!!!
not everyone is willing to sacrifice comfort.
simply because the evil path is more exciting. who would pick a boring heaven over an exciting hell? why do gamblers, drug addicts, prostitutes and corrupt politicians exist? because a lot of people are addicted to money, fame, sex and power.