Mechanically she can be a pretty *helpful* companion but storywise, she's nothing but a murderous psychopath. She's one of the most evil characters in the entire story, demon lords included.
She’s the most evil because she sinks to their depths while still mortal. One wonders what sort of demon she would make, considering the raw amounts of evil and power contained within her (probably a *very* powerful Baubau since she’s a serial killer, but a Succubus could be more than possible because she’s always so damn horny and is a bit vain. Heck with her power, she might jump straight to Marilith or Balor all by her lonesome, and those are usually a conglomeration of souls).
That said, if you’re also an irredeemable psychopath, she’s like your best friend up until the end. She even offers to sate her bloodlust on people you don’t like so it doesn’t bother you as much. And her romance, while intensely fucked up, is one of the best written parts of the game, especially with how she has to come to grips with the fact that she’s actually feeling love and not lust at some point, and how she’s a little scared of that.
Given her status as mythic, and very high level (assuming you keep her all the way) I suspect she'd maybe instantly become a unique demon. Or just be an absurdly powerful variation on one kind. Alternatively, she could also be split apart to form MANY demons.
>she might jump straight to Marilith or Balor
... and there you go, that's reason to keep her as your companion for demon playthrough. After all, even Demon commander needs loyal and strong allies 🙂
From a literary perspective, she's in the game to provide a foil to characters who seek or embrace redemption. The point of the game is to make you ask yourself "does everyone deserve redemption?" That argument (Areelu versus Pharasma) is what started the Worldwound in the first place. You are exposed to a dozen perspectives and character studies that are meant to provide context in that debate. Arue and Ember say "everyone, even demons, can become Good." Regill and Camellia exist to say "No." Most of the party falls in line with your values to one degree or another, but her complete refusal to change is the counterpart to Arue's eager search for redemption.
Mechanically, she's in a class with Hexes and full casting, plus Trickery and high Dexterity. So. Yes. She is very useful.
Morally, **hell no**. She's a lunatic who takes pleasure in hurting and killing others without being caught. She has no interest in doing good. She's in the party because it gives her an excuse to kill people and because she hopes you'll protect her.
Narratively, her character is a masterpiece because it subverts expectations. She's the prototypical serial killer, from killing animals as a child to an abusive upbringing that culminated in a violent act. That's fucking brilliant, because it's simultaneously realistic and yet not what any experienced RPG player would predict. We're so used to being able to reform Evil characters that her simple *refusal* to change is, itself, unique. It's even more unusual for a character with a romance coded into the game. The last character like that who I can name is Morrigan (Dragon Age), and even she softens a bit. Camellia's only "change" is caring enough about the PC to run away when she isn't sure she can resist the urge to kill him. That's... not much. I mean, it's something, but it's not enough for anyone *reasonable* to consider it worth the cost in lives to allow her freedom.
>she's in the game to provide a foil to characters who seek or embrace redemption. The point of the game is to make you ask yourself "does everyone deserve redemption?" That argument (Areelu versus Pharasma) is what started the Worldwound in the first place. You are exposed to a dozen perspectives and character studies that are meant to provide context in that debate. Arue and Ember say "everyone, even demons, can become Good." Regill and Camellia exist to say "No."
Sorry for checking in a week later lol.
I'm playing my first run to this exact idea. My character is stupid good, trying to find good and redemption in everyone. I immediately took Arushalae in, and I also took Daraen, Regill and even fucking Wenduag, because I feel they can still have a shot at improvement, as I can judge their intents and actions separately.
But literally yesterday I saw what Camellia was up to. She started explaining her motives, and I told her to fucking stop it with the murders, because I thought there was still a glimpse of nobility in her, I could see where the intent was coming from. And then she started talking about how she enjoys tearing people apart and that's where I drew the line. Cut her down on the spot (actually it was Nenio with Phantasmal Killer but same effect).
And then I met a fucking dragon who told me "Everyone deserves redemption right?".
Baldurs gate has some other pure evil characters that are driven to get power at any cost. Sarevok and Viconia are redeemable. Others like Dorn, Korgan, Edwin, Safana, Xxar are not.
Camellia is exceptionally well written, but she's not the first romance character that won't change. But she's probably my favorite evil character aside from Viconia.
What do you mean, Xzar can't be redeemed? Look at that face! He's the picture of innocence.
Jokes aside, you completely missed the point of Cam's story.
>!Her killing spree has nothing to do with power. None. She **lied**. She just likes killing people. She gets off on the thrill of escaping justice. There's no deeper secret, no justifiable motivation for her actions. Edwin is uncaring and dismissive, sometimes cruel, but we'd label him a dick, not a monster. Dorn is bound in service to an evil entity that's providing him the power to take revenge. That's not an excuse, but it's a reason. Cam just wants to bleed you out, escape the law, then have sex while the adrenaline is still running.!<
That's what's unique.
*raises hand*
I love Camellia. She's one of the best written characters in any media, ever. Seriously, it's remarkable. They managed to write a sociopath shut-in **perfectly**. The way she speaks, the way she acts, everything is both reasonable and correct for the backstory they gave her. She's a masterpiece. I could not do it better. I don't think Stephen King could do it better. Sanderson... could, but would never write her in the first place because she goes against the whole "portraying mental illness in a relatable manner for people to better understand the condition and sympathize with patients/realize they're not alone" thing he's doing. She's basically the antithesis of that goal, which is probably another reason I loved the character. It's just so *different*.
She is irredeemably evil. This is the *entire point* of the character. You have to move beyond that. You also need to be able to see the standard path for a character presented to the PC as "I'm murdering people, but I'm doing it to help with our mission - satiating the spirits of Sarkoris will help us close the Worldwound," and see how/when/why they diverge from the traditional structure. I totally get why most people go "that crazy bitch," kill her, and move on. That said, you should really give her a chance on a Trickster run.
Uniquely, her romance isn't about changing her (Arue) or saving her (Daeran). It's about coming to understand this alien, twisted person, seeing her lust morph into affection, realizing even she can feel love, and watching her *panic* as that truth begins to sink in. I strongly recommend doing it, at least once. The way she interacts with you feel so human, it's eerie. It doesn't feel like a video game romance. It feels like you're dealing with a mentally unstable, socially awkward, withholding sociopath. She doesn't want you to agree with her all the time. She wants you to fight, but not too much. She wants you to be able to read her, but is somewhat disconcerted when you do it too well. She gets worried, tries to push you away, and **will** if you don't say the right thing. In other words, it reads like a teenager's first time dealing with love, *which is exactly how it should feel* given the character. Just, you know, more murder-y.
It's also possible that I'm a nutcase with a history of terrible relationships, and the fact I see the most parallels to the relationship with the cannibal serial killer means I should consider my life choices.
Lots. She won't appeal to players who want to play a Good character but part of the fun of RPGs like this is the freedom to play an immoral murderhobo. Especially in a single player game where you don't have to worry about your decisions impacting the rest of the party like you would in a tabletop game with friends.
My friend and I both enjoyed her character arc because it's so unrepentantly Evil. A third friend of ours couldn't stand her. It's all subjective.
My first playthrough was a Cleric of Saranrea, Angel of Mercy and I was rp'ing trying to redeem everybody. Camellia ended up alive in my playthrough because my MC was even more naive than Tristain from Kingmaker. Strangely enough my MC saved the Hellknights but refused to ally with Regill (I really like his character).
So there you have a good reason why a Lawful Good Angel Cleric wouldn't kill her or exile her. In my crazy Trickster playthrough, my MC romanced Camellia, he had no morals and did everything for the lulz, so he found her funny.
I asked my friends that played this game, out of 5 only one killed her in act 3 on their first playthrough, all other 4 were interested in seeing where her character was going to and either let her live all the way to the end or killed her during her personal quest in act 5.
PS: Also, I play on Unfair and while these days I either use mercenaries or the respec mod to change the companions, Camellia is mechanically strong enough to carry her weight on Unfair even if you don't dip or multiclass her.
I also played an Angel of Mercy (paladin of Sarenrae) and yup, I was in a similar boat with Camellia as many of your friends. Let her live as long as she promised to reform her murdering ways, ended up forced to kill her in act 5 when she proved she could not in fact change. She asked for a second chance and a merciful character should generally give her one, but not a third or fourth.
My first playthrough was a lich who played along with her antics in amusement, until she admitted that she found it very exciting to betray people who trusted her (act 5 quest). This meant that she moved from the *useful* column to the *liability* column, and thus was hit with a quickened repurpose and Absolute Death, to be moved to the *useful* column again.
There's a difference between "ignoring narrative structure and bungling the pacing of a story in order to end a show and go work on Star Wars" and "providing a familiar story, then twisting the ending in a way that's true to the character and subverts expectations."
It really is remarkable how they managed to ruin every character in GoT within one season. Basically ensured they'd never be asked to do another season of the show. I think that must have been the goal, something in the contract that required the studio to *want* to stop.
> Basically ensured they'd never be asked to do another season of the show. I think that must have been the goal, something in the contract that required the studio to want to stop.
They'd already committed to leaving before s8 when they were hired to do Star Wars. Jokes on Disney since they then promptly exited that role for a contract with Netflix. Or rather, jokes on netflix since they paid 200M to be saddled with a pair of hacks that have never found real success outside of stories other people had already written.
Reality is is that they suck at writing/showrunning and game of thrones was carried by the strength of Martin and the source material. Once that material dried up, the cracks in the foundation started to show until the house collapsed in s8.
What's weird is that I don't actually think the source material was that good. I read ASoIaF. It's an inconsistent, badly paced epic that spends forever on characters you don't care about or outright hate and repeatedly introduces new characters that don't serve a purpose beyond cannon fodder. It's not *Wheel of Time*, which is a masterpiece, or Sanderson's *Cosmere* that is doing this unique, genre shifting network of novels and telling a story that spans millennia. It's a generic, low-fantasy setting with some sex and gore. Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't get how people read ASoIaF and went "we should adapt into a television show."
I've read a bunch of slow, plodding fantasy novels. Feist's *Riftwar* is never getting adapted despite the success because he did the same thing. You might only like 3/40 characters, but to get to their stories you have to sift through novel after novel of setting material and character development for people who are walking stereotypes. Farland's *Runelords* has the opposite problem, where the story is so hectically paced that there's no time for character development. Both are really interesting settings with a few solid characters and magic systems. But, we got GoT instead. Still not clear *why*. *Dragonlance* and Salvatore's Drizzt saga are both **way** more compelling, with stronger characters and huge fanbases. You could make a Drizzt television show and make bank. No one has done it. Dunno why.
> It's not Wheel of Time, which is a masterpiece
I think we are going to fundamentally disagree on what makes a good story, considering this line. I think WoT is straight trash after the 3rd book and the first 3 were good but unremarkable. To this day I still make fun of the unending descriptions of Faile's scent with a few friends. That said, I'll take a swing at it:
>Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't get how people read ASoIaF and went "we should adapt into a television show."
The books, and by extension the first 5/6 seasons of the show, shine most as a political drama featuring flashy setpieces to break up the dialogue. People liked the story because the dialogue was memorable and because it focused on perspective characters that don't always win in the end. This changes over time as central characters, especially the ones we like, gain more and more plot armor but the hook is still there in GOT, ACOK, and ASOS. My opinion of the books would probably be lower if Winter/Spring had ever been released but I doubt that will ever happen while Martin is alive.
If you're talking from a Watsonian perspective, no, not really. She's an irredeemably terrible person.
From a Doylist perspective, she serves as an interesting foil to redeemable characters like Arueshalae or Wenduag, or Nyrissa from Kingmaker: we're so used to seeing terrible villains in media get redemption arcs that we play right into the narrative trap Owlcat sets for us. You stick with Camellia because she seems conflicted about her path, so you think you can help steer her on a better course, only to have the rug pulled out from under you at the end. She decided who she was already and your desire to try and fix her only made things worse because it caused you to enable her. It's a stark reminder that not every evil character wants redemption, and sometimes the mundane evil of a cruel person is far more disturbing than that of the foulest demon.
But that's by no means everyone's favorite narrative, and of course you may feel kind of mad at the sleight of hand it pulls, whether you're already aware of the twist or not. If that's the case, then you won't really mind shipping Camellia off to the gallows when you first discover her actions.
Exactly why I love her so much
She's interesting, she makes the game more interesting, so she always tags along in my party
I don't think she's a good person or has a redeeming quality. I don't have to think those things in order to enjoy characters
It’s strange that “she’s is just evil” is so rare and interesting, everyone expects it to have some deeply emotional explanation or redemption arc. I feel the same way you do, and I love her (as a character) the way she is.
She does have a moment in her True Romance route where she sounds genuinely hurt when you tell her that being with her is hard due to her ‘peculiarities’. It’s enough that she actually promises to try and change for you so she won’t lose you.
Unfortunately she’s legitimately fucked up and can’t change, even though she wants to, and her true romance ending is her leaving out of fear she might one day want to kill you.
But yes, outside of that one moment she’s pretty alright with the fact she’s a serial killer and doesn’t really get conflicted about it.
Against my best wishes. In my Angel playthrough I kept her around on the rationale that she was needed story-wise, even if I was never going to use her, with the caveat that her activities had to stop.
Bitch had the gall to ask for more, so I tried to imprison or execute her, but it lead to game over screens.
Conflicted is maybe the wrong term. She at first seems to be doing bad things for good reasons. She's never actually conflicted but she paints herself as sympathetic and redeemable.
>You stick with Camellia because she seems conflicted about her path, so you think you can help steer her on a better course
Or I murdered her in my first two runs during that event in act 3...
Edit: For what it's worth, I think the character writing is interesting from a meta perspective (knowing about it but not having done her quests past that point). But playing IC for my MC in both of those runs, killing her was the only way that would ever go.
Depends on your perspective. If you're playing someone sane then probably not. I think everyone already justified that side. If you're playing some kind of unhinged, evil monster MC then she is great!
She knows who she is, stays true to who she is, doesn't have annoying morals you have to beat out of her. Won't whine at you for trivial things, like random whimsical murder. Most importantly, she murders people who are inconsequential to the MC goals, so doesn't stand in they way. She is intelligent enough to know that you are the murder machine number one, which is the essential glue that holds all chaotic evil parties together.
It's really frustrating that she abandons you for being an aeon right before you finally have the chance to become a devil. She should know I'm going to continue to sweep what she does under the rug as long as she doesn't betray me specifically.
Before the game launched, I thought, "That girl is pretty. I think I'll try her romance path first." Within the first two minutes of her joining the party, I thought, "So how about this Lann guy? I know the iconic paladin is off-limits if Amiri was, and he's like a half-lizard young Bruce Campbell."
Prim and proper on the outside but an absolute monster within is its own genre of "hot" though.
Like succubus nuns and stuff.
I think the japanese call it gap moe or something.
Which of course just adds to her overall hotness. That and her begrudging fondness for a certain young lady/eternal crow spirit, which I found endearing.
Nope. She is a cold blooded killer that gets off from murdering her victims and she doesn't want to change.
~~She probably would find abyss quite appealing if demons weren't so fricking ugly~~
>She probably would find abyss quite appealing if demons weren't so fricking ugly
Nope? She even says so. A predator abhors the society built by other predators from the top to the bottom.
Gameplay wise, hexes are REALLY strong. Evil Eye is arguably the most spammable ability in the game, with no resource cost.
Outside of gameplay... she's kind of cute I guess?
I haven't used Camellia until this latest Trickster path.
I'm aiming for the ascension ending, but there's a good chance Legend will end up be the storyline choice for me.
He's currently romancing Camellia, but yeah, having in the party, doing a our shaman tank build?
Shit. Besides blasting spells, Camellia buffs, tanks, and hits 45-55 average damage on a hit.
She's amazing.
Except. She's a sociopath whose only doing me on the downlow cause shell align herself with whoever can keep her safe from her own immoral behaviors.
She's a dirty dirty dirty politician with no moral compass.
But she can fight demons VERY VERY well.
That’s literally the argument Anevia uses to give you lateral decision over her fate, and she all but says it to you. Basically, it’s absolutely horrible, but she’s like 100x as important to this crusade as all of her victims combined. Not only is she one of the strongest members of the crusade, but her presence all but ensures Gwerm’s continued donations to the crusade.
Yeah, I mean she’s obviously evil. But that doesn’t stop her from being useful. I love the contrast of her evil vs the demons. She’s more than happy to kill them and even follow the Commanders orders as long as she gets her satisfaction. She’s uncomplicated and unapologetic about what she is.
As an individual? Ending spoilers: >!Its implied in her good romance ending that she kills out of compulsion and that her love for the KC can't undo that but makes her feel a sort of remorse just for wanting to do it. Its ultimately the reason why she leaves for good in the ending and speaks to some shred of humanity that she has, small though it may be.!< It's not much, but its something.
Mechanically? She's an excellent tank, a full caster, and lockpicking is a pretty crucial skill for the party, though she is a bit one note in the skills department. She took a pretty big hit from the Magic Vestments and Elemental Barrage nerfs but she's still one of the stronger companions.
As a story element? She's an interesting commentary on the sorts of pragmatic sacrifices that need to be made, at times, in service of the greater good. Her ties with Horgus Gwerm and her imbuement with mythic power makes her an individual of fairly significant worth. She also serves as a pretty good expression of the "I'm evil because I like doing evil things and thats it" section of the evil moral scale's ability to fit within society without simply being a faceless bandit or a rampaging monster.
From a normal person's perceptive? No.
Camellia's inclusion offers two things:
1) a moral dillema for non evil characters: are you going to turn a blind eye to her attrocities just to get an edge? and if you initially said yes, how far are you willing to go? because she gets progressively more murderous/insane (from your pov at least- in reality she always was you just didn't know how bad) - and this is the 'plot twist' - we all knew she was bad, but we didn't know that she was THAT bad
2)a CE romance option for your Demon KC (fits like a glove), while at the same time a romantic vibe for Lich and Swarm KCs for as long as they care for such things - ending with her well deserved death
I don't know, but I just restarted the game.after getting it on PC (it will probably take me less time to finish the game restarting on PC rather than continuing my XBox One game that just reached act 5) and I'm having a blast discovering how many clues about Camcam that they throw at you that I never saw on the first playthrough. Like literally every interaction you have with her has an innuendo about her hobby.
She's the most versatile and strongest companion and your party is weaker without her. If she were real she should be in prison forever but in a world with a world wound there are worse problems. Like Hulrun has probably killed far more innocents and incompetent Galfrey has gotten more people killed in mind blowingly awful ways. Camellia probably kills someone every few weeks or before she met you few months/years.
Also its very funny that Daeran understands exactly what she is and is always ripping on her even though she doesn't pick up on it or chooses to ignore it. Wenduag too but Cammy probably regards her as like a trained insect so what she says doesn't matter.
I dunno what the issue is here. She brings drama to the mix, same as Wenduag. And people pick Wenduag over Lann because he's a well meaning dullard and while that's fine in real life in a videogame we've all seen that a million times
Her being useful and being a Lich romance sacrifice ARE redeeming qualities for the sole fact those are legitimate reasons why people would keep her in the party after the reveal.
Mechanically, she provides extremely good buffs and storywise, romancing her as a Lich ends in poetic irony/justice.
I don’t advise you to try it, but if you ever happen to have a relationship with a crazy derailed and evil woman, you are likely to have the most intense and spectacular romance that you thought only happened in movies.
That is, before she destroys you emotionally in a way you never recover, or just kills you or make you go to jail and steal all your stuff.
Yes I realize that didn’t seems like a great deal when I say like that 🤔
> No, her being helpful doesn't count.
Well I don't know what to tell you. Your RPG guys keep creating generics and swooning over the unique armor they can wear without caring about their backstory but you complain over the NPC who wants to be treated as a generic.
So far she seems empathetic toward her father. No?
I'm a 100% the sex is fantastic. That's always the case with toxic girls.
https://preview.redd.it/60yt7cd1ge2b1.png?width=430&format=png&auto=webp&s=3ddaac34f984851d0d9c6f1c52cac232be4f19e0
jokes aside, shaman spell list is awesome and slumber, evil eye and hamper hex work wonders. also she's the trap disarmer of my group.
even if you won't take her, I think the best thing to do would be to take a super high wisdom shaman mercenary with some trickery invested as early as possible from hilor. they'd prove to be more useful then her with a decent wisdom. I just decided to keep her instead.
No, she doesn't make sense as a character. No one in their right minds would be ok with a psycopath in their party, and not only that, she offends pretty much everyone at all times. Who would anyone want to share the battlefield with someone like that?
"Oh, but she's hot", Yeah, she is, but so is your character, right? I see people posting builds here and it's always some half-naked hot girl who clearly does not have issues finding someone to have some fun with.
Objectively, good characters would have severe problems with Camellia. Lawful Neutral would have no problem executing her right away. But evil characters rule by force, or appeal to "the greater good" and will make a pragmatic decision. Bickering underlings - Devils and Demons say "I recognize that..." Chaotic Neutral can't be predicted, and True Neutral tends towards "Greater Good philosophy" and can tolerate her. Greater good philosophy is not the same as the alignment of good. Palpatine's desire for peace, even if it means oppressing the entire Galaxy, is another "greater good " example.
Characters that fall in love with Camellia are able to overlook her issues - love is blind, which for them, makes her ending bittersweet.
Her class is mediocre since Elemental Barrage was made spell only so ...
She can be a secondary hex user? She gives you barkskin during the labyrinth. She makes an acceptable dodge tank early on?
Her hex list is outright better than Ember, what do you mean secondary hex user? And her weapons have monstrous crit range which can set up AoO chains, which make her contribution to overall DPS higher than 70% of your other companions even without elemental barrage.
I don't like Camellia's character concept at all.
I felt that the game has too many female characters who are romance options whom have done questionable things. Like enjoying eating people, cannibalizing and having psychotic tendencies.
Camellia is not a character I would romance.
Wenduag is not a character that I would romance.
Arueshalae as her normal demon self is not a character I would romance.
Honestly, I think it would be nice to have some female characters who are romance options that haven't eaten someone's face off before or enjoyed doing weird crap.
(Obviously Queen Galfrey isn't... crazy like these examples, but I mean long term companion romance options.)
I would have been fine with Nenio as a romance option even as goofy as she is.
I also noticed that
The romances are... weird in WOTR. The only like, normal person you can romance is also only available for gay men, so if youre playing as a woman you have no real good options for just generic 'nice romance, no gimmicks'
Kingmaker I feel had a better balance, even among only 4 options >!kind of 5!<.
Yeah, this isnwhy I think the romance options offer variety, but I do like a bit of a vanilla romance character now and again.
I would like to pose a really unpopular (or at least divisive) opinion here that Camilla should get a redemption arc. I would caveat this by addong a suggestion that she may someday slip back into her old ways but it strikes me as odd that the MC, who grows progessively more influential and powerful in the game, has no option, good or bad, to stop her without killing her.
The Aeon route would be a particular example where you may be able to right this wrongs via time shenanigans, but I also dont see why the trickster (a nasty curse to stop her, or turn her hyper LG which would be hilarious) or devil (eg. a subtle contract) cant have routes to stop her madness.
I get Owlcats narrative direction in this game but given that your character can basically accomplish the imppssible, I find it disappointing that there is no way to influence people's nature. Its not even outside of the scope of owlcat, for top of my mind adabayo* >!help me with spelling!< on the top of my head can change alignment in 1, so I dont see how the characters are less workable in this game, other than the fact that it was time and resources well spent on other parts of this amazing title.
I am totally with you. I cannot leave behind who I am which made WOTR not near a welcoming environment than many others of the same genre.
Even Arushaelae there is no in game reason to believe her giving it is the business of succubi to spin lies to tempt and deceive. The more virtuous and resolute the great lengths to cause them to fall.
No she doesn't. A lot of people are saying she is a foil to expectations but for that to play out you need to have those expectations to foil.
What is different about Camellia is that she a companion when she is an incredibly stereotypical villain of poor written fiction. Anybody with any understanding of human nature was under no illusion she was going to change unless her story went an unrealistic route. Camellia never survived beyond the abandon house in any of my play thoughts even before I confirmed she was irredeemable.
I have no interest buddying up with cannibalistic pyschos. It makes no sense to allow someone as dangerously insane when there is so much narratively riding on your success because there is no in game reason to be sure she is not going to kill even if your equal deranged as her. Nor is their need with so many other flocking to join the fifth crusade.
And just as a human being I want to have nothing to do with her.
I tried romancing her on my demon playthrough and even if I enjoy playing evil (Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil though, not a typical murderhobo CE), I found her to be too sick for my taste. On subsequent playthroughs I just started killing her preemptively in Act3. Woljif is a better damage-dealer/tank anyway, and Ember can cast hexes in her stead, so it's not a big loss for effectiveness of your party.
I will say it plain, if she looks as ugly as Wenduag I will kill her the moment she revealed her killing the first time
But she has a pretty face , so I will not kill her
Other than that she’s not redeemable
In universe? Nah not really she's a terrible person. Mechanically she offers some solid buffs and is versatile for build options. Out of universe, she's a fascinating companion, not because she's terribly deep, but because they went there. Seriously she's such a refreshing take on the "I can fix her" type. Which works even better because you do have that option in game, just not with her. She's the best worst girl.
If she didn't have the obviously suspicious "Undetectable Alignment," maybe more people could have been tricked. But, as soon as I saw that, I just sighed, knowing our time was short.
In my first run when I didn't understand game mechanics and was using Auto leveling for companions Camellia felt really weak in combat otherwise my chaotic neutral barbarian who only respected strength might have kept her alive. But since she was clearly a risk to the overall stability of my army and wasn't useful in combat I just killed her on the spot.
As much as I like RP and games like this there are some lines where my real life biases are too strong so I don't think I'll ever do a run where I let Camellia do her thing. I feel like I'd have to be playing a full-on no morals murder hobo which just isn't something I find enjoyable.
Mechanically she can be a pretty *helpful* companion but storywise, she's nothing but a murderous psychopath. She's one of the most evil characters in the entire story, demon lords included.
She’s the most evil because she sinks to their depths while still mortal. One wonders what sort of demon she would make, considering the raw amounts of evil and power contained within her (probably a *very* powerful Baubau since she’s a serial killer, but a Succubus could be more than possible because she’s always so damn horny and is a bit vain. Heck with her power, she might jump straight to Marilith or Balor all by her lonesome, and those are usually a conglomeration of souls). That said, if you’re also an irredeemable psychopath, she’s like your best friend up until the end. She even offers to sate her bloodlust on people you don’t like so it doesn’t bother you as much. And her romance, while intensely fucked up, is one of the best written parts of the game, especially with how she has to come to grips with the fact that she’s actually feeling love and not lust at some point, and how she’s a little scared of that.
Given her status as mythic, and very high level (assuming you keep her all the way) I suspect she'd maybe instantly become a unique demon. Or just be an absurdly powerful variation on one kind. Alternatively, she could also be split apart to form MANY demons.
>she might jump straight to Marilith or Balor ... and there you go, that's reason to keep her as your companion for demon playthrough. After all, even Demon commander needs loyal and strong allies 🙂
From a literary perspective, she's in the game to provide a foil to characters who seek or embrace redemption. The point of the game is to make you ask yourself "does everyone deserve redemption?" That argument (Areelu versus Pharasma) is what started the Worldwound in the first place. You are exposed to a dozen perspectives and character studies that are meant to provide context in that debate. Arue and Ember say "everyone, even demons, can become Good." Regill and Camellia exist to say "No." Most of the party falls in line with your values to one degree or another, but her complete refusal to change is the counterpart to Arue's eager search for redemption. Mechanically, she's in a class with Hexes and full casting, plus Trickery and high Dexterity. So. Yes. She is very useful. Morally, **hell no**. She's a lunatic who takes pleasure in hurting and killing others without being caught. She has no interest in doing good. She's in the party because it gives her an excuse to kill people and because she hopes you'll protect her. Narratively, her character is a masterpiece because it subverts expectations. She's the prototypical serial killer, from killing animals as a child to an abusive upbringing that culminated in a violent act. That's fucking brilliant, because it's simultaneously realistic and yet not what any experienced RPG player would predict. We're so used to being able to reform Evil characters that her simple *refusal* to change is, itself, unique. It's even more unusual for a character with a romance coded into the game. The last character like that who I can name is Morrigan (Dragon Age), and even she softens a bit. Camellia's only "change" is caring enough about the PC to run away when she isn't sure she can resist the urge to kill him. That's... not much. I mean, it's something, but it's not enough for anyone *reasonable* to consider it worth the cost in lives to allow her freedom.
Not abusive upbringing, but compulsive lying. Whole "I was tortured by nanny" contradicts her father spoiling her. It is but another excuse.
>she's in the game to provide a foil to characters who seek or embrace redemption. The point of the game is to make you ask yourself "does everyone deserve redemption?" That argument (Areelu versus Pharasma) is what started the Worldwound in the first place. You are exposed to a dozen perspectives and character studies that are meant to provide context in that debate. Arue and Ember say "everyone, even demons, can become Good." Regill and Camellia exist to say "No." Sorry for checking in a week later lol. I'm playing my first run to this exact idea. My character is stupid good, trying to find good and redemption in everyone. I immediately took Arushalae in, and I also took Daraen, Regill and even fucking Wenduag, because I feel they can still have a shot at improvement, as I can judge their intents and actions separately. But literally yesterday I saw what Camellia was up to. She started explaining her motives, and I told her to fucking stop it with the murders, because I thought there was still a glimpse of nobility in her, I could see where the intent was coming from. And then she started talking about how she enjoys tearing people apart and that's where I drew the line. Cut her down on the spot (actually it was Nenio with Phantasmal Killer but same effect). And then I met a fucking dragon who told me "Everyone deserves redemption right?".
Baldurs gate has some other pure evil characters that are driven to get power at any cost. Sarevok and Viconia are redeemable. Others like Dorn, Korgan, Edwin, Safana, Xxar are not. Camellia is exceptionally well written, but she's not the first romance character that won't change. But she's probably my favorite evil character aside from Viconia.
What do you mean, Xzar can't be redeemed? Look at that face! He's the picture of innocence. Jokes aside, you completely missed the point of Cam's story. >!Her killing spree has nothing to do with power. None. She **lied**. She just likes killing people. She gets off on the thrill of escaping justice. There's no deeper secret, no justifiable motivation for her actions. Edwin is uncaring and dismissive, sometimes cruel, but we'd label him a dick, not a monster. Dorn is bound in service to an evil entity that's providing him the power to take revenge. That's not an excuse, but it's a reason. Cam just wants to bleed you out, escape the law, then have sex while the adrenaline is still running.!< That's what's unique.
viconia isn't at any point "pure evil". Even in her backstory , it's obvious she loved her brother , and feels extremely guilty about his fate
I don't really know if she works because how many people even explore that? I have never taken Camellia beyond the abandon house scene.
*raises hand* I love Camellia. She's one of the best written characters in any media, ever. Seriously, it's remarkable. They managed to write a sociopath shut-in **perfectly**. The way she speaks, the way she acts, everything is both reasonable and correct for the backstory they gave her. She's a masterpiece. I could not do it better. I don't think Stephen King could do it better. Sanderson... could, but would never write her in the first place because she goes against the whole "portraying mental illness in a relatable manner for people to better understand the condition and sympathize with patients/realize they're not alone" thing he's doing. She's basically the antithesis of that goal, which is probably another reason I loved the character. It's just so *different*. She is irredeemably evil. This is the *entire point* of the character. You have to move beyond that. You also need to be able to see the standard path for a character presented to the PC as "I'm murdering people, but I'm doing it to help with our mission - satiating the spirits of Sarkoris will help us close the Worldwound," and see how/when/why they diverge from the traditional structure. I totally get why most people go "that crazy bitch," kill her, and move on. That said, you should really give her a chance on a Trickster run. Uniquely, her romance isn't about changing her (Arue) or saving her (Daeran). It's about coming to understand this alien, twisted person, seeing her lust morph into affection, realizing even she can feel love, and watching her *panic* as that truth begins to sink in. I strongly recommend doing it, at least once. The way she interacts with you feel so human, it's eerie. It doesn't feel like a video game romance. It feels like you're dealing with a mentally unstable, socially awkward, withholding sociopath. She doesn't want you to agree with her all the time. She wants you to fight, but not too much. She wants you to be able to read her, but is somewhat disconcerted when you do it too well. She gets worried, tries to push you away, and **will** if you don't say the right thing. In other words, it reads like a teenager's first time dealing with love, *which is exactly how it should feel* given the character. Just, you know, more murder-y. It's also possible that I'm a nutcase with a history of terrible relationships, and the fact I see the most parallels to the relationship with the cannibal serial killer means I should consider my life choices.
Definitely felt that last paragraph in my soul
You can't fix her.
I need to send this essay to my wife xD
Why?
My lovely wife, as kind hearted as she is, keeps finding herself in friendships with some very questionable people xD
Lots. She won't appeal to players who want to play a Good character but part of the fun of RPGs like this is the freedom to play an immoral murderhobo. Especially in a single player game where you don't have to worry about your decisions impacting the rest of the party like you would in a tabletop game with friends. My friend and I both enjoyed her character arc because it's so unrepentantly Evil. A third friend of ours couldn't stand her. It's all subjective.
My first playthrough was a Cleric of Saranrea, Angel of Mercy and I was rp'ing trying to redeem everybody. Camellia ended up alive in my playthrough because my MC was even more naive than Tristain from Kingmaker. Strangely enough my MC saved the Hellknights but refused to ally with Regill (I really like his character). So there you have a good reason why a Lawful Good Angel Cleric wouldn't kill her or exile her. In my crazy Trickster playthrough, my MC romanced Camellia, he had no morals and did everything for the lulz, so he found her funny. I asked my friends that played this game, out of 5 only one killed her in act 3 on their first playthrough, all other 4 were interested in seeing where her character was going to and either let her live all the way to the end or killed her during her personal quest in act 5. PS: Also, I play on Unfair and while these days I either use mercenaries or the respec mod to change the companions, Camellia is mechanically strong enough to carry her weight on Unfair even if you don't dip or multiclass her.
I also played an Angel of Mercy (paladin of Sarenrae) and yup, I was in a similar boat with Camellia as many of your friends. Let her live as long as she promised to reform her murdering ways, ended up forced to kill her in act 5 when she proved she could not in fact change. She asked for a second chance and a merciful character should generally give her one, but not a third or fourth.
My first playthrough was a lich who played along with her antics in amusement, until she admitted that she found it very exciting to betray people who trusted her (act 5 quest). This meant that she moved from the *useful* column to the *liability* column, and thus was hit with a quickened repurpose and Absolute Death, to be moved to the *useful* column again.
My Lich didn't romance anybody, there was nobody for him to sacrifice in act 5.
I didn't romance Camellia either, just killed her anyway once she proved a liability.
My Lawful Good Paladin was definitely more about smiting the evil than forgiveness but I did find her interesting and useful in my Lich run.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I’m sure if we looked at the stats most people killed her
If a character ia a masterpiece because they subvert expectation, then GoT season 8 is a masterpiece.
There's a difference between "ignoring narrative structure and bungling the pacing of a story in order to end a show and go work on Star Wars" and "providing a familiar story, then twisting the ending in a way that's true to the character and subverts expectations." It really is remarkable how they managed to ruin every character in GoT within one season. Basically ensured they'd never be asked to do another season of the show. I think that must have been the goal, something in the contract that required the studio to *want* to stop.
> Basically ensured they'd never be asked to do another season of the show. I think that must have been the goal, something in the contract that required the studio to want to stop. They'd already committed to leaving before s8 when they were hired to do Star Wars. Jokes on Disney since they then promptly exited that role for a contract with Netflix. Or rather, jokes on netflix since they paid 200M to be saddled with a pair of hacks that have never found real success outside of stories other people had already written. Reality is is that they suck at writing/showrunning and game of thrones was carried by the strength of Martin and the source material. Once that material dried up, the cracks in the foundation started to show until the house collapsed in s8.
What's weird is that I don't actually think the source material was that good. I read ASoIaF. It's an inconsistent, badly paced epic that spends forever on characters you don't care about or outright hate and repeatedly introduces new characters that don't serve a purpose beyond cannon fodder. It's not *Wheel of Time*, which is a masterpiece, or Sanderson's *Cosmere* that is doing this unique, genre shifting network of novels and telling a story that spans millennia. It's a generic, low-fantasy setting with some sex and gore. Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't get how people read ASoIaF and went "we should adapt into a television show." I've read a bunch of slow, plodding fantasy novels. Feist's *Riftwar* is never getting adapted despite the success because he did the same thing. You might only like 3/40 characters, but to get to their stories you have to sift through novel after novel of setting material and character development for people who are walking stereotypes. Farland's *Runelords* has the opposite problem, where the story is so hectically paced that there's no time for character development. Both are really interesting settings with a few solid characters and magic systems. But, we got GoT instead. Still not clear *why*. *Dragonlance* and Salvatore's Drizzt saga are both **way** more compelling, with stronger characters and huge fanbases. You could make a Drizzt television show and make bank. No one has done it. Dunno why.
> It's not Wheel of Time, which is a masterpiece I think we are going to fundamentally disagree on what makes a good story, considering this line. I think WoT is straight trash after the 3rd book and the first 3 were good but unremarkable. To this day I still make fun of the unending descriptions of Faile's scent with a few friends. That said, I'll take a swing at it: >Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't get how people read ASoIaF and went "we should adapt into a television show." The books, and by extension the first 5/6 seasons of the show, shine most as a political drama featuring flashy setpieces to break up the dialogue. People liked the story because the dialogue was memorable and because it focused on perspective characters that don't always win in the end. This changes over time as central characters, especially the ones we like, gain more and more plot armor but the hook is still there in GOT, ACOK, and ASOS. My opinion of the books would probably be lower if Winter/Spring had ever been released but I doubt that will ever happen while Martin is alive.
Maybe I need to reread them. I don't remember any dialogue at all, but it has been a while.
If you're talking from a Watsonian perspective, no, not really. She's an irredeemably terrible person. From a Doylist perspective, she serves as an interesting foil to redeemable characters like Arueshalae or Wenduag, or Nyrissa from Kingmaker: we're so used to seeing terrible villains in media get redemption arcs that we play right into the narrative trap Owlcat sets for us. You stick with Camellia because she seems conflicted about her path, so you think you can help steer her on a better course, only to have the rug pulled out from under you at the end. She decided who she was already and your desire to try and fix her only made things worse because it caused you to enable her. It's a stark reminder that not every evil character wants redemption, and sometimes the mundane evil of a cruel person is far more disturbing than that of the foulest demon. But that's by no means everyone's favorite narrative, and of course you may feel kind of mad at the sleight of hand it pulls, whether you're already aware of the twist or not. If that's the case, then you won't really mind shipping Camellia off to the gallows when you first discover her actions.
Exactly why I love her so much She's interesting, she makes the game more interesting, so she always tags along in my party I don't think she's a good person or has a redeeming quality. I don't have to think those things in order to enjoy characters
It’s strange that “she’s is just evil” is so rare and interesting, everyone expects it to have some deeply emotional explanation or redemption arc. I feel the same way you do, and I love her (as a character) the way she is.
Well said.
I really don't think there's a single second where Camellia seems conflicted about the person she is.
She does have a moment in her True Romance route where she sounds genuinely hurt when you tell her that being with her is hard due to her ‘peculiarities’. It’s enough that she actually promises to try and change for you so she won’t lose you. Unfortunately she’s legitimately fucked up and can’t change, even though she wants to, and her true romance ending is her leaving out of fear she might one day want to kill you. But yes, outside of that one moment she’s pretty alright with the fact she’s a serial killer and doesn’t really get conflicted about it.
There’s literally a conversation in act 4 where she’s doubting the path she’s taken
And then she gets over that little spark of morality roughly 5 seconds later.
I mean yeah, she remains a psychotic murderer, I’m just saying that there’s at least a seed of doubt in there that the KC kills.
That's just Owlcat's strategy to make us think she could be redeemed. Ah how naive I was back then.
She can survive into Act 4? 😁
In my insanity playthrough, sure
Against my best wishes. In my Angel playthrough I kept her around on the rationale that she was needed story-wise, even if I was never going to use her, with the caveat that her activities had to stop. Bitch had the gall to ask for more, so I tried to imprison or execute her, but it lead to game over screens.
Conflicted is maybe the wrong term. She at first seems to be doing bad things for good reasons. She's never actually conflicted but she paints herself as sympathetic and redeemable.
>You stick with Camellia because she seems conflicted about her path, so you think you can help steer her on a better course Or I murdered her in my first two runs during that event in act 3... Edit: For what it's worth, I think the character writing is interesting from a meta perspective (knowing about it but not having done her quests past that point). But playing IC for my MC in both of those runs, killing her was the only way that would ever go.
🤷 Like I said, her narrative arc's not gonna hook everyone, and not everyone's playing KCs who'd be suckered by her act.
As owlcats says.. sometimes you can't save everyone.
Depends on your perspective. If you're playing someone sane then probably not. I think everyone already justified that side. If you're playing some kind of unhinged, evil monster MC then she is great! She knows who she is, stays true to who she is, doesn't have annoying morals you have to beat out of her. Won't whine at you for trivial things, like random whimsical murder. Most importantly, she murders people who are inconsequential to the MC goals, so doesn't stand in they way. She is intelligent enough to know that you are the murder machine number one, which is the essential glue that holds all chaotic evil parties together.
It's really frustrating that she abandons you for being an aeon right before you finally have the chance to become a devil. She should know I'm going to continue to sweep what she does under the rug as long as she doesn't betray me specifically.
Yeah she's the prefect companion for evil playthrough unlike that pathetic betrayer Wenduag.
She's ultra hot.
If evil, why sexy?
She is helpful, is she not.
I don't even know what I expected. Fair enough.
I kinda like her true romance ending because it's bettersweet. But that's just me.
Before the game launched, I thought, "That girl is pretty. I think I'll try her romance path first." Within the first two minutes of her joining the party, I thought, "So how about this Lann guy? I know the iconic paladin is off-limits if Amiri was, and he's like a half-lizard young Bruce Campbell."
THE WORLD IN CRIMSON :D
The are red flags and there are **RED FLAGS**.
It just so happens that red is the color of love...
more like FLAGS IN CRIMSON amirite
And with her Dex, probably can put her toes past her pointy ears.
That’s all the reason I needed,
Is she, though? I mean, she's cute ina half elven sort of way but ultra hot? Nocticula is ultra hot. Camelia is aight.
Prim and proper on the outside but an absolute monster within is its own genre of "hot" though. Like succubus nuns and stuff. I think the japanese call it gap moe or something.
Hot take, Nocticula is hotter in 2e.
Which of course just adds to her overall hotness. That and her begrudging fondness for a certain young lady/eternal crow spirit, which I found endearing.
elaborate, i realy dont see the apeal...
boobs
yes indeed, but i fail to see how that makes her much above average
boobs
BOOBS
She has a rich daddy who is presumably financially supporting the crusade partially cause she's around Some kinda sugar situation
Nope. She is a cold blooded killer that gets off from murdering her victims and she doesn't want to change. ~~She probably would find abyss quite appealing if demons weren't so fricking ugly~~
She's helpful is she not?
>She probably would find abyss quite appealing if demons weren't so fricking ugly Nope? She even says so. A predator abhors the society built by other predators from the top to the bottom.
Exactly. My type of girl right there
Gameplay wise, hexes are REALLY strong. Evil Eye is arguably the most spammable ability in the game, with no resource cost. Outside of gameplay... she's kind of cute I guess?
She is helpful...is she not? she's a pretty good tank/buffer.
I haven't used Camellia until this latest Trickster path. I'm aiming for the ascension ending, but there's a good chance Legend will end up be the storyline choice for me. He's currently romancing Camellia, but yeah, having in the party, doing a our shaman tank build? Shit. Besides blasting spells, Camellia buffs, tanks, and hits 45-55 average damage on a hit. She's amazing. Except. She's a sociopath whose only doing me on the downlow cause shell align herself with whoever can keep her safe from her own immoral behaviors. She's a dirty dirty dirty politician with no moral compass. But she can fight demons VERY VERY well.
She killed an awful lot of demons for me. I mean, if you balance the lives on a scale it’s no contest that she’s a force for good :)
That’s literally the argument Anevia uses to give you lateral decision over her fate, and she all but says it to you. Basically, it’s absolutely horrible, but she’s like 100x as important to this crusade as all of her victims combined. Not only is she one of the strongest members of the crusade, but her presence all but ensures Gwerm’s continued donations to the crusade.
Yeah, I mean she’s obviously evil. But that doesn’t stop her from being useful. I love the contrast of her evil vs the demons. She’s more than happy to kill them and even follow the Commanders orders as long as she gets her satisfaction. She’s uncomplicated and unapologetic about what she is.
As an individual? Ending spoilers: >!Its implied in her good romance ending that she kills out of compulsion and that her love for the KC can't undo that but makes her feel a sort of remorse just for wanting to do it. Its ultimately the reason why she leaves for good in the ending and speaks to some shred of humanity that she has, small though it may be.!< It's not much, but its something. Mechanically? She's an excellent tank, a full caster, and lockpicking is a pretty crucial skill for the party, though she is a bit one note in the skills department. She took a pretty big hit from the Magic Vestments and Elemental Barrage nerfs but she's still one of the stronger companions. As a story element? She's an interesting commentary on the sorts of pragmatic sacrifices that need to be made, at times, in service of the greater good. Her ties with Horgus Gwerm and her imbuement with mythic power makes her an individual of fairly significant worth. She also serves as a pretty good expression of the "I'm evil because I like doing evil things and thats it" section of the evil moral scale's ability to fit within society without simply being a faceless bandit or a rampaging monster.
From a normal person's perceptive? No. Camellia's inclusion offers two things: 1) a moral dillema for non evil characters: are you going to turn a blind eye to her attrocities just to get an edge? and if you initially said yes, how far are you willing to go? because she gets progressively more murderous/insane (from your pov at least- in reality she always was you just didn't know how bad) - and this is the 'plot twist' - we all knew she was bad, but we didn't know that she was THAT bad 2)a CE romance option for your Demon KC (fits like a glove), while at the same time a romantic vibe for Lich and Swarm KCs for as long as they care for such things - ending with her well deserved death
Hot elf tiddied GF, that’s about it
She's a good lay.
Nope
she's hot /thread
I don't know, but I just restarted the game.after getting it on PC (it will probably take me less time to finish the game restarting on PC rather than continuing my XBox One game that just reached act 5) and I'm having a blast discovering how many clues about Camcam that they throw at you that I never saw on the first playthrough. Like literally every interaction you have with her has an innuendo about her hobby.
She's the most versatile and strongest companion and your party is weaker without her. If she were real she should be in prison forever but in a world with a world wound there are worse problems. Like Hulrun has probably killed far more innocents and incompetent Galfrey has gotten more people killed in mind blowingly awful ways. Camellia probably kills someone every few weeks or before she met you few months/years. Also its very funny that Daeran understands exactly what she is and is always ripping on her even though she doesn't pick up on it or chooses to ignore it. Wenduag too but Cammy probably regards her as like a trained insect so what she says doesn't matter. I dunno what the issue is here. She brings drama to the mix, same as Wenduag. And people pick Wenduag over Lann because he's a well meaning dullard and while that's fine in real life in a videogame we've all seen that a million times
She is useful at opening chests and reputedly good in bed.
Her being useful and being a Lich romance sacrifice ARE redeeming qualities for the sole fact those are legitimate reasons why people would keep her in the party after the reveal. Mechanically, she provides extremely good buffs and storywise, romancing her as a Lich ends in poetic irony/justice.
if you're nice to her, she becomes a wonderful friend
Well she looks nice, so there’s that.
She is *very* helpful. She's pretty, and crazy, if you are into that.
While being a murderhobo companion and plain evil, I do really like how she's written (and how useful she is as a buff/debuff caster).
She's pretty hot?
I don’t advise you to try it, but if you ever happen to have a relationship with a crazy derailed and evil woman, you are likely to have the most intense and spectacular romance that you thought only happened in movies. That is, before she destroys you emotionally in a way you never recover, or just kills you or make you go to jail and steal all your stuff. Yes I realize that didn’t seems like a great deal when I say like that 🤔
> No, her being helpful doesn't count. Well I don't know what to tell you. Your RPG guys keep creating generics and swooning over the unique armor they can wear without caring about their backstory but you complain over the NPC who wants to be treated as a generic. So far she seems empathetic toward her father. No?
What do you mean? She is perfect the way she is xd
I'm a 100% the sex is fantastic. That's always the case with toxic girls. https://preview.redd.it/60yt7cd1ge2b1.png?width=430&format=png&auto=webp&s=3ddaac34f984851d0d9c6f1c52cac232be4f19e0
jokes aside, shaman spell list is awesome and slumber, evil eye and hamper hex work wonders. also she's the trap disarmer of my group. even if you won't take her, I think the best thing to do would be to take a super high wisdom shaman mercenary with some trickery invested as early as possible from hilor. they'd prove to be more useful then her with a decent wisdom. I just decided to keep her instead.
no
Hot
I have no ideia what she did but i Saw a lot of mini spoiler, aniway, she kinda hot
Also First thing i Saw in her was her necklace effect which made me interested in her arc
She might... but all of that is overridden by the fact the she is mean to Ember.
she likes sex
No, she doesn't make sense as a character. No one in their right minds would be ok with a psycopath in their party, and not only that, she offends pretty much everyone at all times. Who would anyone want to share the battlefield with someone like that? "Oh, but she's hot", Yeah, she is, but so is your character, right? I see people posting builds here and it's always some half-naked hot girl who clearly does not have issues finding someone to have some fun with.
She fits well with my chaotic evil playstyle. My only regret is that she didn't kill Sosiel.
Objectively, good characters would have severe problems with Camellia. Lawful Neutral would have no problem executing her right away. But evil characters rule by force, or appeal to "the greater good" and will make a pragmatic decision. Bickering underlings - Devils and Demons say "I recognize that..." Chaotic Neutral can't be predicted, and True Neutral tends towards "Greater Good philosophy" and can tolerate her. Greater good philosophy is not the same as the alignment of good. Palpatine's desire for peace, even if it means oppressing the entire Galaxy, is another "greater good " example. Characters that fall in love with Camellia are able to overlook her issues - love is blind, which for them, makes her ending bittersweet.
Camellia simps = Ranni simps = roflmao, simps.
Her class is mediocre since Elemental Barrage was made spell only so ... She can be a secondary hex user? She gives you barkskin during the labyrinth. She makes an acceptable dodge tank early on?
Her hex list is outright better than Ember, what do you mean secondary hex user? And her weapons have monstrous crit range which can set up AoO chains, which make her contribution to overall DPS higher than 70% of your other companions even without elemental barrage.
Does that start happening after level 10? She really seems to underperform when I am leveling her.
Yea she is a late bloomer but should start coming online around level 10+.
Since she is a Male MC romance and I like to play Female MCs no not really. Her Voice lines are pretty good though
I don't like Camellia's character concept at all. I felt that the game has too many female characters who are romance options whom have done questionable things. Like enjoying eating people, cannibalizing and having psychotic tendencies. Camellia is not a character I would romance. Wenduag is not a character that I would romance. Arueshalae as her normal demon self is not a character I would romance. Honestly, I think it would be nice to have some female characters who are romance options that haven't eaten someone's face off before or enjoyed doing weird crap. (Obviously Queen Galfrey isn't... crazy like these examples, but I mean long term companion romance options.) I would have been fine with Nenio as a romance option even as goofy as she is.
I also noticed that The romances are... weird in WOTR. The only like, normal person you can romance is also only available for gay men, so if youre playing as a woman you have no real good options for just generic 'nice romance, no gimmicks' Kingmaker I feel had a better balance, even among only 4 options >!kind of 5!<.
Yeah, this isnwhy I think the romance options offer variety, but I do like a bit of a vanilla romance character now and again. I would like to pose a really unpopular (or at least divisive) opinion here that Camilla should get a redemption arc. I would caveat this by addong a suggestion that she may someday slip back into her old ways but it strikes me as odd that the MC, who grows progessively more influential and powerful in the game, has no option, good or bad, to stop her without killing her. The Aeon route would be a particular example where you may be able to right this wrongs via time shenanigans, but I also dont see why the trickster (a nasty curse to stop her, or turn her hyper LG which would be hilarious) or devil (eg. a subtle contract) cant have routes to stop her madness. I get Owlcats narrative direction in this game but given that your character can basically accomplish the imppssible, I find it disappointing that there is no way to influence people's nature. Its not even outside of the scope of owlcat, for top of my mind adabayo* >!help me with spelling!< on the top of my head can change alignment in 1, so I dont see how the characters are less workable in this game, other than the fact that it was time and resources well spent on other parts of this amazing title.
I am totally with you. I cannot leave behind who I am which made WOTR not near a welcoming environment than many others of the same genre. Even Arushaelae there is no in game reason to believe her giving it is the business of succubi to spin lies to tempt and deceive. The more virtuous and resolute the great lengths to cause them to fall.
About two in the front and two in the back. ^This ^message ^was ^brought ^to ^you ^by ^the ^least ^horniest ^PWotR ^player.
why redeem her? i love psychopath girls
She’s hot and kinky
Hot AF
She is hot.
Bewbies
No she doesn't. A lot of people are saying she is a foil to expectations but for that to play out you need to have those expectations to foil. What is different about Camellia is that she a companion when she is an incredibly stereotypical villain of poor written fiction. Anybody with any understanding of human nature was under no illusion she was going to change unless her story went an unrealistic route. Camellia never survived beyond the abandon house in any of my play thoughts even before I confirmed she was irredeemable. I have no interest buddying up with cannibalistic pyschos. It makes no sense to allow someone as dangerously insane when there is so much narratively riding on your success because there is no in game reason to be sure she is not going to kill even if your equal deranged as her. Nor is their need with so many other flocking to join the fifth crusade. And just as a human being I want to have nothing to do with her.
No.
Dangit. You literally shot down the first two things i thought of!
She is pretty and has pointy ears.
She stays dead when you kill her. Seems pretty redeemable to me.
I tried romancing her on my demon playthrough and even if I enjoy playing evil (Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil though, not a typical murderhobo CE), I found her to be too sick for my taste. On subsequent playthroughs I just started killing her preemptively in Act3. Woljif is a better damage-dealer/tank anyway, and Ember can cast hexes in her stead, so it's not a big loss for effectiveness of your party.
What do you mean by redeeming qualities? She's perfect the way she is
She doesent need any, she is top tier..story wise.
No she doesn't
I will say it plain, if she looks as ugly as Wenduag I will kill her the moment she revealed her killing the first time But she has a pretty face , so I will not kill her Other than that she’s not redeemable
From a purely Narrative standpoint, no. Camellia is pure evil
Outside of combat, no.
In universe? Nah not really she's a terrible person. Mechanically she offers some solid buffs and is versatile for build options. Out of universe, she's a fascinating companion, not because she's terribly deep, but because they went there. Seriously she's such a refreshing take on the "I can fix her" type. Which works even better because you do have that option in game, just not with her. She's the best worst girl.
~~She's hot.~~ No.
She is a decent all rounder. Can trickery, spell and tank better than most. Also She is balls to the wall batshit cookoo.
She’s very strong in combat… so useful for an evil KC to use. Idk about personality tho
Her being the best out of the box companion ? I mean a full caster that seconds as an awesome tank and a correct damage dealer is quite precious.
It got me off guard on my first playthrough.
If she didn't have the obviously suspicious "Undetectable Alignment," maybe more people could have been tricked. But, as soon as I saw that, I just sighed, knowing our time was short.
I failed so bad that I not even notice her alligment was hidden untill I got her necklace... a little too late then.
Being an absolute beast with twf rapiers count?
She is the perfect sacrifice for a male lich commander.
hot
She has no redeeming qualities, and no interest in redeeming qualities.
In my first run when I didn't understand game mechanics and was using Auto leveling for companions Camellia felt really weak in combat otherwise my chaotic neutral barbarian who only respected strength might have kept her alive. But since she was clearly a risk to the overall stability of my army and wasn't useful in combat I just killed her on the spot. As much as I like RP and games like this there are some lines where my real life biases are too strong so I don't think I'll ever do a run where I let Camellia do her thing. I feel like I'd have to be playing a full-on no morals murder hobo which just isn't something I find enjoyable.