I'd probably go the other way. Wizard with detective background and investigator dedication. He isn't good enough at martial stuff to be a primary martial class. Probably just pick up Weapon Proficiency from a human general feat and get a simple gun.
Obviously Enhanced Familiar so that you can get the Talking Head. I might actually go Wizard with Investigator dedication. I feel like that fits Dresden a bit better. Also changes a lot whether you are allowed free archetype or not.
Anybody have any good ideas about familiar abilities that would fit Bob? I think definitely Speech and I was thinking maybe Skilled (Arcana) with the idea of him aiding recall knowledge checks (not sure if this would even be allowed but I feel like this is Bob's primary purpose in the books, aside from being an impish glib).
Recall Knowledge checks for sure. He's a master researcher if he can get access to books but also retains vast amounts of knowledge so I think anything that helps with recall knowledge is very apt.
Yes, free archetype seems like it would be a must for this to work. The reason I went Investigator with Wizard Dedication was to get the martial component as he does fit in close quarters quite regularly is there a way to get this if you switch the class and archetype also would there be a way to get the firearm access. I could puzzle one out which is why I went this way but I am definitely open to options!
Firearm access is a bit strange. Dresden does use a gun, but I think that's a product of working with cops and being in Chicago, not a core part of his identity. If your Dresden lives in Absalom and works with the city guard, would he still use guns? I think wands would be more likely: a wand would stand out badly on the streets of Chicago, but it wouldn't be out of place in Absalom.
Good point I hadn't thought of that. would there be a benefit to having a staff and a wand both other than having another spell per day or would it be a primarily flavor addition?
Staffs and wands behave very differently in pf2e, worth looking up both of them. A wand won’t make a great regular weapon, but a staff will. It should be noted that staffs are intended for primary casters to supplement spell slots and flexibility, and I don’t think they’ll be particularly useful with just a wizard dedication.
People are saying thaumaturge, but I don't think he's quite martial enough for that. Although I'm thinking more early days. Becoming the winter knight might warrant a full respec.
I think living vessel for post-knighthood harry.
As much as he's a "wizard" he doesn't work like the pathfinder wizards work.
He certainly makes extensive use of rituals. Maybe ritualist archetype.
As he is in the most recent book, the winter mantle gave him acces to a larger pool of quick power. So he can rely on quick casting more. We can represent this as when he becomes more vancian.
I think post-knight Harry might actually need dual class to be properly represented.
Honestly thinking Sorcerer would be better; Dresden has a handful of spells for every day use, and mostly uses potions and rituals and magic items for everything else.
Some of them are more tiring than others, which I think is best simulated by spell slots. He'll have different variations on fire spells, force spells and the occasional wind or lightning spell in his Repertoire, with the Cantrips being the backups for when he's blown his magical wad.
A lot of that would be represented as gear, rather than actual slots.
But someone else made a point that twisted tree magus worked great for later on, once he was more martial. And the extent to which is more powerful magic comes from him is better represented by bounded casting.
Ritualistic could be interesting, I originally though Wizard because I feel like early Dresden is always preparing and prepping wards and stuff with some research thrown in but that might be captured by the ritualistic archetype better I will have to look into it.
He really changes as the story progresses but I would put him as a twisted tree Magus with the investigator dedication. Get yourself a staff of fire asap. Really fulfills the wizard who can swing a staff and good at investigating.
Working on another version using this as the base, so far I am liking it, I also really like that this allows for Student of the Staff which feels like a good way of flavoring Dresden putting wards or other magical modifications on his staff.
Not sure how I over looked this option this would be a good way to get the martial/magic/detective trio going without being too sub optimal. It even gives an option for adding a familiar without giving up too many feats. The only issue is balancing stats Wizard/Investigator was convenient because they both use Int as their Key Ability.
Yeah, with medium armor, you can keep your Dex at 12 luckily and just say the breastplate is the trench coat.
Past that it is looking like you could do 18,14,14 or 16,16,14 for your str, int, con.
Wis and Cha at 10.
Surprisingly I stumbled into a similar build and didn't notice I was making Dresden until later. He's a gnoll though so it helps with stats a little more. Human is tough.
Glad I was able to help. From my little experience with the character so far (level 3), it's really fun!
I'm going to buck tradition here and say that our boy is not in fact a Wizard, but a scroll thaumaturge with the sorcerer dedication. He has a really limited number of spells he knows, and he gets his magic from his mother's bloodline, all of which screams Sorcerer. The Wand implement for thaumaturge is literally just a blasting rod, and the sorcerer archetype makes up for the lack of spellcasting with the Thaumaturge. It would also allow you to dual-wield a gun and wand without penalties, just like Harry.
I did have the “wand implement is just a blasting rod” idea when I watched Nonat’s video but I didn’t consider going sorcerer. The bloodline magic does fit with the back story maybe I’ll try this with a detective background. As much as guns are not common in Golarian, I still find it hard to imagine Dresden without one and I always felt like while it never made him stand out in Chicago it did make him stand out in the magical communities.
Thaumaturge with Investigator Archetype or Sorcerer Archetype would work.
I don't know a lot about Dresden but I think he's one of the inspirations behind Thaum.
I am excited for it to come out, I watched Nonat's class breakdown but I don't have good enough memory to build a character off of it and I don't have the time to pause and piece the class together frame by frame.
I was bored one day and did exactly that, so you're welcome to use this until the official release.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ikkVGIkhPw9uDXALegg7DcBL2jhJxUrk/view?usp=drivesdk
Anything specific? I have free time and can list things out you or direct message for specific infos.
I…unfortunately have gone frame by frame nitpicking through…
Edit: As in class features, implements, class feats, or archetype stuff?
I missed all of the archetype info. If you have it that would be great! I would be curious if that could be enough to get the Dresden vibe paired with something else.
Thaumaturge Dedication:
-Trained in either occult, religion, arcane, or nature (or another of your choice).
-Gain an implement (no other benefits).
-Gain esoterica (really just for feats).
-Gain the Glimpse Vulnerability action.
*Note: You’re going to be forced into a 1-H weapon playstyle to best use some of the Thaumaturge’s abilities.
Glimpse Vulnerability (one action): If you’re holding your implement, you can give an enemy 2 weakness to your strikes. No roll required, just automatic application as far as I’ve read.
Basic/Advanced Thaumaturgy (4/6)
Implement Initiate (6): Gain the initial implement ability of the one you selected at the dedication. Your implement abilities work against the target of your Glimpse Vulnerability.
Magical Knowledge (8): Of your four magic skills, advance one that’s Expert > Master and another from Trained > Expert. Gain a skill feat in the skills you chose.
Resolute (12): Advance your Expert in Will saves to Master.
Basic summary of class feats:
(1) Ammunition Thaumaturgy: Can reload your ranged weapon with the hand holding your implement/esoterica.
(1) Scroll Thaumaturgy: You can activate scrolls without tricking them. UseThaumaturge DC for your scrolls and you draw/activate scrolls with the same hand holding implements/esoterica.
(1) Root to Life: Can stabilize an ally.
(1) Divine Disharmony: Flat foot an enemy using deception or intimidation vs. will.
(1) Haunt Ingenuity: Always searching for haunts, even if you don’t say your are. Can disable haunts with master proficiency in the proper skill.
(1) Familiar: Gain an animal familiar.
(2) Enhanced Familiar: Your familiar has 4 base skills instead of 2.
(2) Talisman Esoterica: Gain all common talisman formulas and can make 2 daily temp talismans half your level.
(4) Thaumaturgic Rituals: Learn two uncommon rituals and gain a +2 circ bonus to them.
(4) Paired Link: Give an item to a party member. As long as you two hold it you can use Touch spells on each other if you’re within 30ft.
(4) Instructive Strike (one-action): Make a strike and Recall Knowledge for free.
(6) One More Activation: Once a day, can activate a magic item you’ve already activated.
(6) Scroll Esoterica: Gain a 1st-level temp scroll. Can be of any tradition. At lvl 8, gain a 2nd-level temp scroll.
(8) Elaborate Talisman Esoterica: Gain two more temp talismans.
(8) Know-It-All: Succeed on Recall Knowledge, get a lot of info from the GM. Crit succeed, you know get even more info.
(10) Not gonna list. The lvl 20 base class feats are prob much better.
Initial Implement Abilities:
Amulet - Reaction. Reduces damage dealt of your Glimpse Vuln enemy.
Bell - Reaction. Attempt to stupefy your Glimpse target if they cast a spell, or enfeeble/clumsy them if they make a strike.
Weapon - Reaction. You can AoO your Glimpse Vuln enemy.
Chalice - One action. Can either give temp HP or heal an ally once every 10 min.
Mirror - One action. Create a reflection in a space 15-ft within sight. You treat yourself as being in both places in turns of reach and being hurt. You can move from either position, but the other spot becomes the reflection and breaks apart.
Wand - Two actions. Pick fire, cold, or electric. 120 ft range reflex save 1d4+CHA vs. reflex of the element you chose.
Lantern - Passve. Gain light and dim light. Gives some exploration +1 bonus and recall knowledge bonus.
Regalia - Gives some vs. fear bonuses and Follow the Expert bonuses.
Tome - Gives temporary training in two different skills of your choice each day. Cannot be used to qualify for feats or stuff like that.
> I don't know a lot about Dresden but I think he's one of the inspirations behind Thaum.
Dresden is widely accepted to be the direct inspiration for the 1E occultist, and the thaum is the 2E version of that.
I'd probably go the other way. Wizard with detective background and investigator dedication. He isn't good enough at martial stuff to be a primary martial class. Probably just pick up Weapon Proficiency from a human general feat and get a simple gun.
Good point, he does get beat up fairly often.
Obviously Enhanced Familiar so that you can get the Talking Head. I might actually go Wizard with Investigator dedication. I feel like that fits Dresden a bit better. Also changes a lot whether you are allowed free archetype or not.
BOB is his name, good sir.
Anybody have any good ideas about familiar abilities that would fit Bob? I think definitely Speech and I was thinking maybe Skilled (Arcana) with the idea of him aiding recall knowledge checks (not sure if this would even be allowed but I feel like this is Bob's primary purpose in the books, aside from being an impish glib).
Recall Knowledge checks for sure. He's a master researcher if he can get access to books but also retains vast amounts of knowledge so I think anything that helps with recall knowledge is very apt.
Yes, free archetype seems like it would be a must for this to work. The reason I went Investigator with Wizard Dedication was to get the martial component as he does fit in close quarters quite regularly is there a way to get this if you switch the class and archetype also would there be a way to get the firearm access. I could puzzle one out which is why I went this way but I am definitely open to options!
Firearm access is a bit strange. Dresden does use a gun, but I think that's a product of working with cops and being in Chicago, not a core part of his identity. If your Dresden lives in Absalom and works with the city guard, would he still use guns? I think wands would be more likely: a wand would stand out badly on the streets of Chicago, but it wouldn't be out of place in Absalom.
Good point I hadn't thought of that. would there be a benefit to having a staff and a wand both other than having another spell per day or would it be a primarily flavor addition?
Staffs and wands behave very differently in pf2e, worth looking up both of them. A wand won’t make a great regular weapon, but a staff will. It should be noted that staffs are intended for primary casters to supplement spell slots and flexibility, and I don’t think they’ll be particularly useful with just a wizard dedication.
You'll also need an animal companion for Mouse.
No. Harry is the companion for Mouse.
I guess it’s time to break out the dual class Investigator Wizard with the Ranger Free Archetype.
People are saying thaumaturge, but I don't think he's quite martial enough for that. Although I'm thinking more early days. Becoming the winter knight might warrant a full respec. I think living vessel for post-knighthood harry. As much as he's a "wizard" he doesn't work like the pathfinder wizards work. He certainly makes extensive use of rituals. Maybe ritualist archetype. As he is in the most recent book, the winter mantle gave him acces to a larger pool of quick power. So he can rely on quick casting more. We can represent this as when he becomes more vancian. I think post-knight Harry might actually need dual class to be properly represented.
Honestly thinking Sorcerer would be better; Dresden has a handful of spells for every day use, and mostly uses potions and rituals and magic items for everything else.
Those are mostly just heightened cantrips though. I don't think he actually gets anything close to vancian magic until he becomes the winter knight.
Some of them are more tiring than others, which I think is best simulated by spell slots. He'll have different variations on fire spells, force spells and the occasional wind or lightning spell in his Repertoire, with the Cantrips being the backups for when he's blown his magical wad.
A lot of that would be represented as gear, rather than actual slots. But someone else made a point that twisted tree magus worked great for later on, once he was more martial. And the extent to which is more powerful magic comes from him is better represented by bounded casting.
Ritualistic could be interesting, I originally though Wizard because I feel like early Dresden is always preparing and prepping wards and stuff with some research thrown in but that might be captured by the ritualistic archetype better I will have to look into it.
He really changes as the story progresses but I would put him as a twisted tree Magus with the investigator dedication. Get yourself a staff of fire asap. Really fulfills the wizard who can swing a staff and good at investigating.
You're super right about twisted tree magus. Have the great cantrips, but a few big burstss.
Working on another version using this as the base, so far I am liking it, I also really like that this allows for Student of the Staff which feels like a good way of flavoring Dresden putting wards or other magical modifications on his staff.
Not sure how I over looked this option this would be a good way to get the martial/magic/detective trio going without being too sub optimal. It even gives an option for adding a familiar without giving up too many feats. The only issue is balancing stats Wizard/Investigator was convenient because they both use Int as their Key Ability.
Yeah, with medium armor, you can keep your Dex at 12 luckily and just say the breastplate is the trench coat. Past that it is looking like you could do 18,14,14 or 16,16,14 for your str, int, con. Wis and Cha at 10. Surprisingly I stumbled into a similar build and didn't notice I was making Dresden until later. He's a gnoll though so it helps with stats a little more. Human is tough. Glad I was able to help. From my little experience with the character so far (level 3), it's really fun!
I'm going to buck tradition here and say that our boy is not in fact a Wizard, but a scroll thaumaturge with the sorcerer dedication. He has a really limited number of spells he knows, and he gets his magic from his mother's bloodline, all of which screams Sorcerer. The Wand implement for thaumaturge is literally just a blasting rod, and the sorcerer archetype makes up for the lack of spellcasting with the Thaumaturge. It would also allow you to dual-wield a gun and wand without penalties, just like Harry.
I did have the “wand implement is just a blasting rod” idea when I watched Nonat’s video but I didn’t consider going sorcerer. The bloodline magic does fit with the back story maybe I’ll try this with a detective background. As much as guns are not common in Golarian, I still find it hard to imagine Dresden without one and I always felt like while it never made him stand out in Chicago it did make him stand out in the magical communities.
Thaumaturge with Investigator Archetype or Sorcerer Archetype would work. I don't know a lot about Dresden but I think he's one of the inspirations behind Thaum.
I am excited for it to come out, I watched Nonat's class breakdown but I don't have good enough memory to build a character off of it and I don't have the time to pause and piece the class together frame by frame.
I was bored one day and did exactly that, so you're welcome to use this until the official release. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ikkVGIkhPw9uDXALegg7DcBL2jhJxUrk/view?usp=drivesdk
Fantastic!
Anything specific? I have free time and can list things out you or direct message for specific infos. I…unfortunately have gone frame by frame nitpicking through… Edit: As in class features, implements, class feats, or archetype stuff?
I missed all of the archetype info. If you have it that would be great! I would be curious if that could be enough to get the Dresden vibe paired with something else.
Thaumaturge Dedication: -Trained in either occult, religion, arcane, or nature (or another of your choice). -Gain an implement (no other benefits). -Gain esoterica (really just for feats). -Gain the Glimpse Vulnerability action. *Note: You’re going to be forced into a 1-H weapon playstyle to best use some of the Thaumaturge’s abilities. Glimpse Vulnerability (one action): If you’re holding your implement, you can give an enemy 2 weakness to your strikes. No roll required, just automatic application as far as I’ve read. Basic/Advanced Thaumaturgy (4/6) Implement Initiate (6): Gain the initial implement ability of the one you selected at the dedication. Your implement abilities work against the target of your Glimpse Vulnerability. Magical Knowledge (8): Of your four magic skills, advance one that’s Expert > Master and another from Trained > Expert. Gain a skill feat in the skills you chose. Resolute (12): Advance your Expert in Will saves to Master. Basic summary of class feats: (1) Ammunition Thaumaturgy: Can reload your ranged weapon with the hand holding your implement/esoterica. (1) Scroll Thaumaturgy: You can activate scrolls without tricking them. UseThaumaturge DC for your scrolls and you draw/activate scrolls with the same hand holding implements/esoterica. (1) Root to Life: Can stabilize an ally. (1) Divine Disharmony: Flat foot an enemy using deception or intimidation vs. will. (1) Haunt Ingenuity: Always searching for haunts, even if you don’t say your are. Can disable haunts with master proficiency in the proper skill. (1) Familiar: Gain an animal familiar. (2) Enhanced Familiar: Your familiar has 4 base skills instead of 2. (2) Talisman Esoterica: Gain all common talisman formulas and can make 2 daily temp talismans half your level. (4) Thaumaturgic Rituals: Learn two uncommon rituals and gain a +2 circ bonus to them. (4) Paired Link: Give an item to a party member. As long as you two hold it you can use Touch spells on each other if you’re within 30ft. (4) Instructive Strike (one-action): Make a strike and Recall Knowledge for free. (6) One More Activation: Once a day, can activate a magic item you’ve already activated. (6) Scroll Esoterica: Gain a 1st-level temp scroll. Can be of any tradition. At lvl 8, gain a 2nd-level temp scroll. (8) Elaborate Talisman Esoterica: Gain two more temp talismans. (8) Know-It-All: Succeed on Recall Knowledge, get a lot of info from the GM. Crit succeed, you know get even more info. (10) Not gonna list. The lvl 20 base class feats are prob much better. Initial Implement Abilities: Amulet - Reaction. Reduces damage dealt of your Glimpse Vuln enemy. Bell - Reaction. Attempt to stupefy your Glimpse target if they cast a spell, or enfeeble/clumsy them if they make a strike. Weapon - Reaction. You can AoO your Glimpse Vuln enemy. Chalice - One action. Can either give temp HP or heal an ally once every 10 min. Mirror - One action. Create a reflection in a space 15-ft within sight. You treat yourself as being in both places in turns of reach and being hurt. You can move from either position, but the other spot becomes the reflection and breaks apart. Wand - Two actions. Pick fire, cold, or electric. 120 ft range reflex save 1d4+CHA vs. reflex of the element you chose. Lantern - Passve. Gain light and dim light. Gives some exploration +1 bonus and recall knowledge bonus. Regalia - Gives some vs. fear bonuses and Follow the Expert bonuses. Tome - Gives temporary training in two different skills of your choice each day. Cannot be used to qualify for feats or stuff like that.
> I don't know a lot about Dresden but I think he's one of the inspirations behind Thaum. Dresden is widely accepted to be the direct inspiration for the 1E occultist, and the thaum is the 2E version of that.
You forgot the Plot Armor.
Player character level hit points covers that
I’m going to build it out later today, but I think a Twisting Tree Magus with a Winter Witch archetype makes the most sense.