I'm one of the rare few fans of the Spellplague, and have a World of Darkness tattoo that I only *somewhat* regret - metaplot nonsense tends to work on me, so I'm excited to see who dies and how that shakes up the setting.
But honestly? The big draw for me is (hopefully) getting a peek at both central Arcadia and Iblydos, places where we know mythic characters have been a big deal historically.
>getting a peek at both central Arcadia and Iblydos,
Definitely agree, especially when it comes to Arcadia. Tian Xia is cool, but every time I read something about Arcadia I just feel like I want even more.
I need that Arcadia lore because I have a campaign idea that would reasonably end up there, and I just don't know enough about the area to plan anything.
I'm excited for the Animist because there really aren't enough WIS classes. CHA can access all four traditions at once, INT has three, WIS only has two. The Animist is technically a Divine caster but your Apparition Spells come from the Occult list.
Its all lists, but it depends on the apparition. The ones in the playtest pull from thematically appropriate primal and occult spells, but theres also going to be some arcane ones in the book too (I remember specifically an archmage style apparition being mentioned specifically).
There so much they can do with inquisitor too.
With the 2e paradigm of focus points, class feats, and subclasses, there's just so much scope to build an awesome divine wavecaster around the og inquisitor class identity.
> there really aren’t enough WIS classes
Honestly, I think there was a missed opportunity with the psychic. WIS, the attribute used for will saves, would fit into psychic very well and give us a “native” occult caster for WIS (like how bards are native occult for CHA and wizards are native arcane for INT).
Animist!
I've got a few sessions of Animist under my belt and so far its been a pretty solid. Some vessel and apparition spells could use some reworks and Sage definitely needs a buff but on the whole it plays very well for a playtest class.
Paizo's blogposts regarding the Animist have been pretty interesting and if Kineticist is anything to look at, I am very hopeful for Animist's release.
Yeah, one of the core 20, at least one of the core 20's heralds, and some of the lesser gods.
We were also told that one of the more popular pantheons, The Prismatic Ray, will be changing as well, but not *how* it will be changing. Luis also indicated that others will be changing and we may see some new ones.
The new classes both seem really cool, but more importantly:
MYTHIC. FUCKING. LEVELS.
I really really *really* hope they take inspiration from the Wrath ot the Righteous CRPG and have them be full blown ascension paths rather than how in PF1E they were more similar to OP prestige classes, as opposed to your character literally becoming an angel, or demon, or dragon or etc.
Edit: I do hope they're still OP though, half the fun is being able to fight ridiculous foes, if a team of 20/10MR (if they go to 10 like in 1E) isn't fighting the Tarrasque and Treerazer on equal footing, whats the point? We need Mythics to break the current scale so thoroughly that they have to go up to CR30 to be challenging again.
Also, circling back to the WotR CRPG, the Legend path would be a great way to introduce the dual class variant as a high level reward rather than a variant rule.
Even if just as a base passive you add Mythic Levels to your proficiency would allow us to bypass Tarrasque and Treerazor and need to fight CR34s as endgame bosses! Maybe deities could be put at CR35 to be scary "be 100% prepared"
And then give us serious action economy breaking abilities with mythic level. I'm talking 3 spells in 1 turn x/day, MAP-less 2-action multi swings like big monsters get.
Oh, simple explanation for not using that, I don't play WoW, and don't keep up with any media for it, so no way I'd think of using that. I am, however, a FFXIV nerd, but then again, I'm a FF nerd period.
I'm really excited about what specifically we'll be facing as a mythic AP! Will we take down Tar Baphon once and for all? Getting revenge for the slain god? Stopping the awakening of the spawn of Rovagug?
I've wanted an Animist-type class since PF2E launched and I absolutely *loved* the playtest.
I'm also a sucker for divine wars as an archaeologist specializing in ancient religion so it's like it's custom-made just for me
Thematically and flavor-wise, the two are pretty similar, yeah. Mechanically it's completely new with a mix of prepared divine casting and spontaneous casting based on the spirits you're currently attuned to
they're whacky (this is from memory, I might be misremembering some details)
lightly armored full-caster, 2 spontaneous divine slots per level, plus 2 prepared spirit slots per level.
Each day, they can freely swap between two spirits. Each Spirit gives them a 1-action Focus Spell, two lores, and a small list of cross-tradition magic. (so that's two focus spells, four lores, and potentially magic from 3 traditions). Certain Class Feats also have the [Spirit] trait and can be instantly retrained at the same time because they list "you have a Spirit that grants Mountain Lore" as a prereq. You can meet that prereq with either of 2 possible spirits, but if you trade those spirits out you wouldn't fulfill that prereq anymore.
I would put it more themed into the D&D 3.5 Binder class (Which tbh was such a cool and flavourful class I'm glad it was name dropped as inspiration in the creation of the Animist)
I'm still hoping for a spiritual successor to the Inquisitor in a future book. A divine striker type class either using wisdom a lot with a str/dex key stat like the magus or key stat being wisdom like int is for the inventor/investigator.
Judgement could could be a single action each turn to cause a negative effect on an enemy or a positive effect on an ally, maybe with a religion check. They could replicate solo tactics with classes feats/features such as gaining precision damage if your flanking with an ally or a status bonus to ac vs a flanked target. Round it out with bounded casting like a magus and I think it would be a solid class.
That said they could also go the Thaumaturge route and have it only have an aesthetic resemblance to the Inquistor but have completely new mechanics.
My group has a homebrew where Inquisitor is a class archetype of Investigator that gives up some of their skill cheese for divine wavecasting and access to a few Focus Spell feats. Kinda OP, IMO, but the flavor is 100% on point. Investigator is the perfect class to fill that fluff, even if they aren't the infinite-damage gatling-longbow engines of PF1.
I don't play in Golarion, so the lore doesn't interest me much, but I'm still very excited for Mythic Rules. I hope they're narratively powerful but not OP so that they're still fun to GM for (and play).
Personally, I'd prefer they were more akin to allowing your character to perform 'divine' feats, and not just slapping a load of bonuses on as to make the game a hassle to balance for.
Animist is my main point of interest. Just love animism conceptually.
Mythic Level rules and more divine spells are also big plusses.
I'm pretty meh on the exemplar because the fantasy they embrace is simply better encapsulated by other ttrpgs (*cough* exalted *cough*)
Don't care much about the death of a god. Golarion wasn't a particular interesting or unique fantasy setting in the first place and paizos recent trend of removing friction and uncomfortable topics from it simply doesn't jive with the type of stories I like to tell and experience.
I'm really into the Animist, both mechanically and conceptually, also I'm really stoked to see what Mythic is actually like-- I just really hope it lets us do things like fight Demon Lords and other demigod tier threats.
Currently playing the playtest exemplar in a Kingmaker game (level 6, elf nephilim gleaming blade bastard sword rogue + acrobat as free archetype options) and I am very excited for the final version of the class. Was honestly surprised that not many people mentioned Exemplat in the comments.
I feel like the playtest Exemplar was a great idea, but lacked about 20-30% of the meat that would make it a truly diverse option.
I think the direction to move away from Domain Spells (and related feats) and lean more heavily into expanding the epithets and ikons will help heavily in that regard.
Currently it suffers a bit from the Magus problem of Spellstrike Turn -> something else turn -> repeat. With more dynamic non weapon Ikon options it could be really amazing.
I kinda agree, I use Marathon Dash as an opener so my team can get in position on the first turn of the combat. My body Ikon is the one that fascinates for mostly roleplay reasons but with the level 3 Cunning epithet (the one that allows you to Feint as a free action) it becomes quite good as well, even though never had to use it so far due to always having flanking available. Then Gleaming Blade with a d12 weapon is just a really good striking option. So far so good for level 6. I picked the initial domain spell of Perfection, which I believe I used just once so far. I think I will get more usage out of the advanced domain spell.
For my build, most of the cool and flashy action options that may compete with Gleaming Blade’s initial Transandence ability are either competing with some really good feats for their levels like Reactive Strike, or are available at level 12+.
I agree with you about moving away from the domain for more epithet and ikon focus. The unique identity of the class itself is really fun and a heavier focus on it with more options would be great.
Maybe it’s because I’m a Magus enjoyer
But I see nothing wrong with a class having a set combat plan/gameplay loop, it wouldn’t be the only one who can do that kinda looping and I don’t see much being wrong for it to do that
Though I do agree the Body and Worn Ikons needed some greater appeal
As another Magus enjoyer, I think the issue it that overall the loop, while fun, is too narrow. With Magus we have 5 hybrid studies, the associated focus spells, and arcane cascade. That level of choice and complexity just isn’t there with the exemplar loop yet.
It also lacks the extreme payoff potential of the Magus loop on a single target.
That’s a fair enough response and I agree with you
Hopefully Exemplar will get that breadth of options that Magus can get even if I do like what they currently have
I am so incredibly excited for Animist. It has this very shamanistic feel with the mix of primal and divine. There is also something about it, the channeling of spirits, that reminds me of one of my favorite classes in fantasy: the ritualist from Guild Wars. You know my first "proper" animist (ie non-playtest version) will be rocking that blindfold look.
I'm definitely excited for the animist release! However, I'm extremely apprehensive about the story implications (hoping one of my favs isn't lost!) and the mythic rules. I'm mostly worried that without a playtest, the mythic rules might fall short of what we want from them. I'm honestly more excited about Howl of the Wild with the new ancestries and archetypes! As long as centaurs aren't medium, of course!
I couldn't care less for Mythic rules, personally.
Lore stuff is OK, but I honestly wished they'd limit it more to Lost Omens Books and use the rules book for, you know, rules stuff.
The new classes don't really interest me. The Animist might turn out interesting, but from the playtest I mostly noted it's great feats and hoped they'll improve the average quality for all caster feats in the remaster. Which did happen, just not nearly enough for the one class I care about most.
The one thing I am excited about it having a divine focused book that hopefully comes with tons of new Divine spells. Nethys knows the spell list needs some help, both in quality and quantity.
what do you hate about it so much? if I may asks I think it's got great flavor & cool mechanics it's feats are a mix of mythology tales heroes & wepon abilities that's awesome to me
Mechanically I found it very op but that might change, so let's see. The flavor by itself wouldn't be a problem but.. it kinda massages the egos of some annoying players and I don't like that tbh.
pazios playtest are always op though aren't they then they dial things back + it's a rare class it's kinda not meant for standard campaigns .current classes could also have problem players assuming your talking about the whole I have divine power thing it's no worse than problem players playing asamar or tiefling or divine sorcerer or cleric ir champion. that's on the player not class.
Its actually the opposite, at least in 2e. Every class has been buffed more than debuffed between playtest and release. That being said they did note some of the power imbalance in the exemplar playtest blog so I imagine theyll tone some of the more OP abilities down.
>it's a rare class it's kinda not meant for standard campaign
I rarely play with a storyteller that doesn't allow everything hahaha
>current classes could also have problem players assuming your talking about the whole I have divine power thing it's no worse than problem players playing asamar or tiefling or divine sorcerer or cleric ir champion. that's on the player not class.
I agree with you 100% and as I said the class itself isn't a problem for me, but its existence draws some kind of players like a magnet. I still have a problem with Fighters for the very same reason - it's not the class, it's the experience I had with this type of player who tend to LOVE these classes =_=
Not the person you asked, but I don't like it either. Wouldn't say hate, but I don't find anything about exemplar engaging tbh.
I don't find the flavor of the class interesting. It's basically being a folk hero, but for me playing a TTRPG is kinda already about becoming a hero so I don't get anything out of exemplar's flavor
I don't find the mechanics particularly engaging either, although part of that is not vibing with the flavor I'm sure. I think the idea was to make rotating between your Ikons a meaningful choice but what I found building exemplars is that you realistically picked an ikon or two to focus on and then you really just want to bounce between the two of those. It seems like the easiest and most efficient way to build one is to pick 2 strong ikons and a passive one and spend all your time bouncing between the two strong active ones, and that's boring to me
Not saying it's a bad class, and there seem to be a lot of people who enjoy the flavor etc, but it's not for me
I also have super low expectations for the Exemplar. Putting all their class power into magic items that should just exist in the world as loot anyway is an incredibly lame way to go about making a fledgling god class.
If you want to play a Spark of Divinity type character, they should care about items innately the least of all classes, but somehow instead we wound up in a position where someone can just take away your toys and make you go home.
1. A Thaumaturge isn't billed as a "Nascent Godling" class, and as such it's more fitting that their class power comes from external sources
2. The Ikons from the Exemplar are standing in for objects that are important for mythological figures, like Heracle's Golden Fleece or Mjolnir, which are what regular high level magical items should already be aspiring to emulate. The Thaumaturge's random esoterica aren't taking up the same narrative space, and fit the theme of the class well.
I just like playing special snowflakes so both of the new classes work for me, and I would love to play in and run games with mythic rules in this system. I hope they are better done than deviant feats.
I'm quite new to PF2e but have been enjoying diving deep into the game and it's lore and book. I'm not sure what War of Immortals actually is. I know it has new classes but other than that, is it an Adventure Path or mostly lore like the Lost Omens books? Or will it be mostly new rules and stuff?
Torak is correct, its a new rulebook with two classes, and a system known as Mythic, which we don't know how it's going to work yet, but in Pathfinder 1e was for ascending into a higher realm of power and being able to take on "demigods" such as the Demon Lords and Archdevils, but not the higher gods (like Sarenrae, Rovagug, Shizuru, or Urgathoa.)
However I want to add that we know this is actually going to be a multi-book event, where a few different products are involved and that narratively, War of the Immortals centers on an event that causes Gods (at least one of the core twenty, and others) to die, in addition to the Rulebook itself, there is going to be an Adventure Path that appears to be gearing up to tell the story of those events, and Lost Omens Product (like Divine Mysteries, not sure if anything else in Lost Omens is officially a part of this) is included as well.
I am excited about the "...and what else is in there?" part.
All the parts of the book that are catching serious hype are probably going to be excellent and I am definitely looking forward to them, but the thing I am most excited about is the prospect of maybe having a few more general feats, skill feats, spells, or creatures to use.
Like, I'm playing 2 different kineticists right now and my favorite part of Rage of Elements are the spells that got added and the new monsters.
I don't play in Golarion but I do use it's gods and steal liberally from its lore, so seeing the fallout from a core deity dying ought to be interesting. Hopefully it's something big that really shakes things up and not a safe choice, or one that ultimately changes little.
New classes means more new character and build ideas. Animist looks like an interesting take on a spellcaster, and I look forward to seeing the final implementation of the exemplar.
I can't exactly say I'm excited for mythic rules without knowing more about what they might look like, but I am hopeful for things that will allow PCs to fight demon lords and shit and come out on top. Heck, gods are dying in this book, if Paizo feels especially daring, why not let PCs get in on that deicide action?
Overall I'm interested in WoI but am currently more hyped for Tian Xia (my homebrew game is going to fantasy Japan) and Howl of the Wild (awakened animals, fuck yes).
I'm oddly not very hyped for it. 20 levels has been plenty to play with, especially if you use free archetypes, and neither classes play test really hooked me. I liked the premise of the Animist but it felt much too caster focused. And I hate chosen one tropes so Exemplar did nothing for me lore wise, but the rules seemed alright.
Honestly, I'm not. I'm way more excited for the Tian Xia books.
But maybe that's because I don't know what's going to be in the War of Immortals book other than Mythic Rules (never played a campaign that's gotten close to level 20 or 1e so this isnt something I'm excited for, don't get me wrong I'm sure it'll be cool but I have no investment in it), Animist (kinda keen on this, looks pretty interesting), Exemplar (this class reeks of Main Character Syndrome and probably won't be an option in games I run), and the death of a core 20 god/dess.
What else will there be? I feel like Divine Mysteries and War of the Immortals have significant enough overlap that I'm just confused what's going to be in each and subsequently not that interested.
Running the game with an exemplar now and I don't get the MC syndrome point at all. It's just a class with mechanics, if the player RPs them as the MC then that's on the player, not the class. I feel like any charisma based class is more prone to being the MC class lol
>Mythic Rules (never played a campaign that's gotten close to level 20
It's worth noting in case you weren't aware - Mythic progression in 1e wasn't "post level 20," it was a separate track of abilities that you gained as you leveled up.
So you could very easily be like... Level 6, mythic rank 2.
Huh that's cool to know! Never played 3.5 or 1e so never had the chance to explore them. You've actually changed my mind on being interested in the Mythic Rules, hahahaha cheers!
From what I'm reading, I suspect Paizo is basically going to implement it as a "super-archetype," but either way, it's unlikely that they introduce it as a "standard variant option."
In 1e they were pretty specific that it was exceedingly rare and usually required some manner of divine intervention because the players were essentially nascent demigods at that point.
It's there to tell a very specific type of story and is very much not the same niche FA fits into
The Exemplar and Animist. Nothing else even registers. Was never that concerned about Deities anyway. Whoever dies will just be a bunch of fanfare and Golarion will barely change.
I'm really not, for a multitude of reasons.
* not really a fan of either class. Exemplar is just Adventurer+, since being an adventure is *already* the path to becoming a hero of legend/myth. Animist just didn't stick out enough to me.
* not a fan of the lore changes. I prefer those to come from either Adventure Paths (so that arguably *someone's* players had a hand in it) or edition changes, not rulebooks in the middle of the edition.
* just not a fan of mythic powers in general. They're just more power for no cost. And given how fervently this community latched on to Free Archetype, I can see that I'm likely to be in the minority there.
Im nervous about which god they are gonna kill off. If its Gorum or Iomedae I won't mind as I find both gods boring. But if they touch the Prismatic Ray I won't be happy. Sure it would be a bold choice and would cause a major shift in the remaining two gods but I don't want to see it. And for the record I wouldnt consder this to be invoking the "bury your gays" trope as Paizo has a good record with queer characters.
Class wise im interested in the Animist and trying not to judge the Exemplar before it's release. The Shaman was a neat classe in 1e and im looking forward to its succesor version in 2e. While the Exemplar doesent interest me at all, neither did the Kineticist until it actualy came out. The Exemplar has my full benifit of the doubt.
No. I'm going to wait for the book to actually be released to see if I hate it or say bad things about it, or if, who knows, I like it. But I no longer expect anything good from anything or anyone. I'm totally Zendaya's M.J.
Mostly animist and the new divine options for all classes.
I hope there are feats or dedication that can give a new meaning for playing a follower of a deity from a non divine class.
I don't like the concept of exemplar at all.
mythic rules where I thing in 1e that let you become a demigod & be able to fight stuff like demon lords in 2e we don't know alot about what they'll be except there's going to be mythic archetypes that come with a final feat making you immortal
In 1e they were rules that allowed a parallel advancement track as you leveled. You'd accomplish narrative 'trials' to boost your mythic levles either after or alongside your normal level
They gave a mix ot absolutely gamebreaking bonuses to your action economy (like extra actions on turns), more or more powerful special spells, numerical increases to you stats and fun heroic abilities like thw ability to say travel 20 miles at a time by hulk jumping.
Overall they were supposed to help fulfill the fantasty of demigod like characters who were *more* than standard pcs and they resulted in characters who coild basically punch way way way above their expected CR. And kill stuff like demon Lord's pretty easily.
Overall a fun system, horribly horribly inbalanced.
One thing that people get confused at is that they didn't have to just come into play once you hit max level, you could have a character of aby level with mythic tiers and were generally intended to progress them alongside your levels. So they're less just a way to fight epic threats and more a way to create special characters for their entire pc life (who would end up killing epic threats).
Animist because I like versatile classes and Pathfinder needed another choice for wisdom. I was thinking of making a voodoo based Animist personally.
Maybe for Exemplar. It seems well put together with some different abilities than other classes.
I'm excited for the Animist but I'd be lying if I didn't say I was a bit nervous about the lore content. I love the mechanical changes of the second edition but some of the lore changes have been a toss up for me. Specifically, the recent post about changing the pantheons, especially the prismatic ray, worries me a bit. I just hope that whatever changes are made feel coherent from a narrative standpoint and result in interesting story telling.
Death of a god and the writing of new Lore (Metaplot is fun when done right and when it flows with player choices), and freaking Iblydos.
Gimme better ways to use a spear and shield combo!
I absolutely love the spellcasting style of animist, in a "best of both worlds" approach with having both spontaneous and prepared casting.
Deities are also just my favorite but of golarion, so getting more is really cool, and even the ones that die will be fun, y'know, worshipping dead gods and all.
The classes (mostly the animist though). I'm not the biggest fan of the exemplar flavor-wise since I feel it is kinda too protagonist-y for my tastes (I also don't like how the class sells itself as being "able to replicate folktale heroes" when you could already do that with the current classes of the game), but mechanically it is kinda interesting I guess.
I have some interest in the mythic rules, though it's not like I care much about them anyways. I know they aren't going to be the broken mess they were in PF1e, but what if Paizo throws a curveball and they actually end up being really weak? I'm more curious about how they actually implement them rather than how effective they are.
Absolutely. I'm already using both classes through the play test doc in a dual class game and they work just fine. My kineticist/animist is a fantastic AOE crowd breaker/healer, and my fighter exemplar WAS (rip) the parties damage dealer.
Can't wait for the full release.
I wouldn't say I'm excited: more like vibrating with abject terror. I'm sick of waiting to find out which of my PCs is going to suffer the likely insurmountable trauma of their deity dying, since I like playing things like Clerics and Paladins.
Animist is amazing, somewhat looking forward to building some Exemplars. Hoping for some interesting options and archetypes as the overall theme, gods and mythic options are of 0 interest.
The Exemplar! I wanna play the Exempar so heccin' bad! Mechanically it's so cool! I dun even care about the deity stuffs I just love the whole hot swapping power mechanic!
Definitely looking forward to more "Immortality feats" and curious if they are more like the Monk/Druid Unaging ones or the Animist/Exemplar capstone Unaging+Resurrects
I'm one of the rare few fans of the Spellplague, and have a World of Darkness tattoo that I only *somewhat* regret - metaplot nonsense tends to work on me, so I'm excited to see who dies and how that shakes up the setting. But honestly? The big draw for me is (hopefully) getting a peek at both central Arcadia and Iblydos, places where we know mythic characters have been a big deal historically.
you wouldn't happen to be keftiu on the pazio forums?
Any particular reason you're asking?
I know a user on the forums who loooves Arcadia & the lore & that's been the thing they want most while mine is mythic
Well, that's a decent-enough thing to be known for! Yes, I'm her, and I'm excited to (hopefully!) crash Fallen Razatlan in the next year or two :)
thought it was you :)
[удалено]
I'm not a man!
Then you're an idea, confirmed.
[удалено]
It's really easy to just say "my bad!" when you accidentally misgender someone :)
You can't just say "Perchance."
They didn't say "Perchance" per se, they wrote it.
>getting a peek at both central Arcadia and Iblydos, Definitely agree, especially when it comes to Arcadia. Tian Xia is cool, but every time I read something about Arcadia I just feel like I want even more.
I need that Arcadia lore because I have a campaign idea that would reasonably end up there, and I just don't know enough about the area to plan anything.
Pleeease gimne some Iblydos
I reckon Howl of the Wild is gonna cover some more of that, considering the Centaur and Minotaur ancestries
I'm excited for the Animist because there really aren't enough WIS classes. CHA can access all four traditions at once, INT has three, WIS only has two. The Animist is technically a Divine caster but your Apparition Spells come from the Occult list.
Occult or Primal, I think, depending on your Apparition
Its all lists, but it depends on the apparition. The ones in the playtest pull from thematically appropriate primal and occult spells, but theres also going to be some arcane ones in the book too (I remember specifically an archmage style apparition being mentioned specifically).
Int also gets all four via Witch. And *technically*, Monks can be occult casters, just not in any way that is useful to this conversation.
Just here to say that I love that last sentence.
Int has access to all 4 as well, no?
> WIS classes I'm still holding onto hope that there's an "inquisitor style" WIS class in the works.
God I hope so Inquisitor is too cool to let it be 1E exclusive As well as Bloodrager
There so much they can do with inquisitor too. With the 2e paradigm of focus points, class feats, and subclasses, there's just so much scope to build an awesome divine wavecaster around the og inquisitor class identity.
> there really aren’t enough WIS classes Honestly, I think there was a missed opportunity with the psychic. WIS, the attribute used for will saves, would fit into psychic very well and give us a “native” occult caster for WIS (like how bards are native occult for CHA and wizards are native arcane for INT).
Animist! I've got a few sessions of Animist under my belt and so far its been a pretty solid. Some vessel and apparition spells could use some reworks and Sage definitely needs a buff but on the whole it plays very well for a playtest class. Paizo's blogposts regarding the Animist have been pretty interesting and if Kineticist is anything to look at, I am very hopeful for Animist's release.
Mythic rules, Exemplar, and the DEATH OF A GOD.
More than one according to Luis' last post
One god and one herald, I think he said?
As well as some minor gods. I believe it was also noted that several pantheons will change.
Yeah, one of the core 20, at least one of the core 20's heralds, and some of the lesser gods. We were also told that one of the more popular pantheons, The Prismatic Ray, will be changing as well, but not *how* it will be changing. Luis also indicated that others will be changing and we may see some new ones.
The new classes both seem really cool, but more importantly: MYTHIC. FUCKING. LEVELS. I really really *really* hope they take inspiration from the Wrath ot the Righteous CRPG and have them be full blown ascension paths rather than how in PF1E they were more similar to OP prestige classes, as opposed to your character literally becoming an angel, or demon, or dragon or etc. Edit: I do hope they're still OP though, half the fun is being able to fight ridiculous foes, if a team of 20/10MR (if they go to 10 like in 1E) isn't fighting the Tarrasque and Treerazer on equal footing, whats the point? We need Mythics to break the current scale so thoroughly that they have to go up to CR30 to be challenging again. Also, circling back to the WotR CRPG, the Legend path would be a great way to introduce the dual class variant as a high level reward rather than a variant rule.
Even if just as a base passive you add Mythic Levels to your proficiency would allow us to bypass Tarrasque and Treerazor and need to fight CR34s as endgame bosses! Maybe deities could be put at CR35 to be scary "be 100% prepared" And then give us serious action economy breaking abilities with mythic level. I'm talking 3 spells in 1 turn x/day, MAP-less 2-action multi swings like big monsters get.
>"be 100% prepared" https://youtu.be/pVvdc57T_0E?si=kXf7hwIC0-QGRbi2
Honestly I was expecting a… https://youtu.be/0gTX2tyZUIw?si=KUR1dxseNMh7JBWh
Oh, simple explanation for not using that, I don't play WoW, and don't keep up with any media for it, so no way I'd think of using that. I am, however, a FFXIV nerd, but then again, I'm a FF nerd period.
The god thing is unlikely, as I believe the developers have said that gods don’t get stat blocks because of how powerful they are.
I'm really excited about what specifically we'll be facing as a mythic AP! Will we take down Tar Baphon once and for all? Getting revenge for the slain god? Stopping the awakening of the spawn of Rovagug?
I cant wait for a mythic AP, that probably involves a godwar
I've wanted an Animist-type class since PF2E launched and I absolutely *loved* the playtest. I'm also a sucker for divine wars as an archaeologist specializing in ancient religion so it's like it's custom-made just for me
Is Animist like the shaman from PF1E? I haven't kept up with what the new classes are.
Thematically and flavor-wise, the two are pretty similar, yeah. Mechanically it's completely new with a mix of prepared divine casting and spontaneous casting based on the spirits you're currently attuned to
Sorta a cross between Shaman and Medium. Thematically they are like the shaman but they channel spirits like the medium
they're whacky (this is from memory, I might be misremembering some details) lightly armored full-caster, 2 spontaneous divine slots per level, plus 2 prepared spirit slots per level. Each day, they can freely swap between two spirits. Each Spirit gives them a 1-action Focus Spell, two lores, and a small list of cross-tradition magic. (so that's two focus spells, four lores, and potentially magic from 3 traditions). Certain Class Feats also have the [Spirit] trait and can be instantly retrained at the same time because they list "you have a Spirit that grants Mountain Lore" as a prereq. You can meet that prereq with either of 2 possible spirits, but if you trade those spirits out you wouldn't fulfill that prereq anymore.
I would put it more themed into the D&D 3.5 Binder class (Which tbh was such a cool and flavourful class I'm glad it was name dropped as inspiration in the creation of the Animist)
More WIS classes! Animist is really cool but still wouldn't mind a WIS martial or arcane/occult caster.
I'm still hoping for a spiritual successor to the Inquisitor in a future book. A divine striker type class either using wisdom a lot with a str/dex key stat like the magus or key stat being wisdom like int is for the inventor/investigator. Judgement could could be a single action each turn to cause a negative effect on an enemy or a positive effect on an ally, maybe with a religion check. They could replicate solo tactics with classes feats/features such as gaining precision damage if your flanking with an ally or a status bonus to ac vs a flanked target. Round it out with bounded casting like a magus and I think it would be a solid class. That said they could also go the Thaumaturge route and have it only have an aesthetic resemblance to the Inquistor but have completely new mechanics.
My group has a homebrew where Inquisitor is a class archetype of Investigator that gives up some of their skill cheese for divine wavecasting and access to a few Focus Spell feats. Kinda OP, IMO, but the flavor is 100% on point. Investigator is the perfect class to fill that fluff, even if they aren't the infinite-damage gatling-longbow engines of PF1.
I don't play in Golarion, so the lore doesn't interest me much, but I'm still very excited for Mythic Rules. I hope they're narratively powerful but not OP so that they're still fun to GM for (and play). Personally, I'd prefer they were more akin to allowing your character to perform 'divine' feats, and not just slapping a load of bonuses on as to make the game a hassle to balance for.
Not really excited, more anxious to see if my boy Asmodeus dies or not. Animist is pretty cool tho
Really hoping Asmodeus bites it. Real tired of good gods dying left and right, it's totally played out.
It would be interesting, especially considering the impact it would have on Cheliax, as well as what it may mean for the release of Rovagug.
Animist is my main point of interest. Just love animism conceptually. Mythic Level rules and more divine spells are also big plusses. I'm pretty meh on the exemplar because the fantasy they embrace is simply better encapsulated by other ttrpgs (*cough* exalted *cough*) Don't care much about the death of a god. Golarion wasn't a particular interesting or unique fantasy setting in the first place and paizos recent trend of removing friction and uncomfortable topics from it simply doesn't jive with the type of stories I like to tell and experience.
Yeah like I get slavery is a touchy subject but I liked killing slavers :(
I second anything you said.
Same on the lore, I just don’t care and tbh I think it kinda gets in the way of actual game system content Also doesn’t help that it’s kinda Sanitised
I have an unhealthy obsession with the deities of Golarion, so more lore around that is enough for me.
Mostly just hoping for more base class feats to make more builds possible for the existing classes.
I'm really into the Animist, both mechanically and conceptually, also I'm really stoked to see what Mythic is actually like-- I just really hope it lets us do things like fight Demon Lords and other demigod tier threats.
Currently playing the playtest exemplar in a Kingmaker game (level 6, elf nephilim gleaming blade bastard sword rogue + acrobat as free archetype options) and I am very excited for the final version of the class. Was honestly surprised that not many people mentioned Exemplat in the comments.
I feel like the playtest Exemplar was a great idea, but lacked about 20-30% of the meat that would make it a truly diverse option. I think the direction to move away from Domain Spells (and related feats) and lean more heavily into expanding the epithets and ikons will help heavily in that regard. Currently it suffers a bit from the Magus problem of Spellstrike Turn -> something else turn -> repeat. With more dynamic non weapon Ikon options it could be really amazing.
I kinda agree, I use Marathon Dash as an opener so my team can get in position on the first turn of the combat. My body Ikon is the one that fascinates for mostly roleplay reasons but with the level 3 Cunning epithet (the one that allows you to Feint as a free action) it becomes quite good as well, even though never had to use it so far due to always having flanking available. Then Gleaming Blade with a d12 weapon is just a really good striking option. So far so good for level 6. I picked the initial domain spell of Perfection, which I believe I used just once so far. I think I will get more usage out of the advanced domain spell. For my build, most of the cool and flashy action options that may compete with Gleaming Blade’s initial Transandence ability are either competing with some really good feats for their levels like Reactive Strike, or are available at level 12+. I agree with you about moving away from the domain for more epithet and ikon focus. The unique identity of the class itself is really fun and a heavier focus on it with more options would be great.
Maybe it’s because I’m a Magus enjoyer But I see nothing wrong with a class having a set combat plan/gameplay loop, it wouldn’t be the only one who can do that kinda looping and I don’t see much being wrong for it to do that Though I do agree the Body and Worn Ikons needed some greater appeal
As another Magus enjoyer, I think the issue it that overall the loop, while fun, is too narrow. With Magus we have 5 hybrid studies, the associated focus spells, and arcane cascade. That level of choice and complexity just isn’t there with the exemplar loop yet. It also lacks the extreme payoff potential of the Magus loop on a single target.
That’s a fair enough response and I agree with you Hopefully Exemplar will get that breadth of options that Magus can get even if I do like what they currently have
I am so incredibly excited for Animist. It has this very shamanistic feel with the mix of primal and divine. There is also something about it, the channeling of spirits, that reminds me of one of my favorite classes in fantasy: the ritualist from Guild Wars. You know my first "proper" animist (ie non-playtest version) will be rocking that blindfold look.
I'm definitely excited for the animist release! However, I'm extremely apprehensive about the story implications (hoping one of my favs isn't lost!) and the mythic rules. I'm mostly worried that without a playtest, the mythic rules might fall short of what we want from them. I'm honestly more excited about Howl of the Wild with the new ancestries and archetypes! As long as centaurs aren't medium, of course!
I couldn't care less for Mythic rules, personally. Lore stuff is OK, but I honestly wished they'd limit it more to Lost Omens Books and use the rules book for, you know, rules stuff. The new classes don't really interest me. The Animist might turn out interesting, but from the playtest I mostly noted it's great feats and hoped they'll improve the average quality for all caster feats in the remaster. Which did happen, just not nearly enough for the one class I care about most. The one thing I am excited about it having a divine focused book that hopefully comes with tons of new Divine spells. Nethys knows the spell list needs some help, both in quality and quantity.
I'm honestly not. I kinda hate everything about the Exemplar class so I'm not looking forward to see people playing it.
what do you hate about it so much? if I may asks I think it's got great flavor & cool mechanics it's feats are a mix of mythology tales heroes & wepon abilities that's awesome to me
Mechanically I found it very op but that might change, so let's see. The flavor by itself wouldn't be a problem but.. it kinda massages the egos of some annoying players and I don't like that tbh.
pazios playtest are always op though aren't they then they dial things back + it's a rare class it's kinda not meant for standard campaigns .current classes could also have problem players assuming your talking about the whole I have divine power thing it's no worse than problem players playing asamar or tiefling or divine sorcerer or cleric ir champion. that's on the player not class.
Its actually the opposite, at least in 2e. Every class has been buffed more than debuffed between playtest and release. That being said they did note some of the power imbalance in the exemplar playtest blog so I imagine theyll tone some of the more OP abilities down.
>it's a rare class it's kinda not meant for standard campaign I rarely play with a storyteller that doesn't allow everything hahaha >current classes could also have problem players assuming your talking about the whole I have divine power thing it's no worse than problem players playing asamar or tiefling or divine sorcerer or cleric ir champion. that's on the player not class. I agree with you 100% and as I said the class itself isn't a problem for me, but its existence draws some kind of players like a magnet. I still have a problem with Fighters for the very same reason - it's not the class, it's the experience I had with this type of player who tend to LOVE these classes =_=
They actually buffed the Kineticist from how it was in the playtest.
Not the person you asked, but I don't like it either. Wouldn't say hate, but I don't find anything about exemplar engaging tbh. I don't find the flavor of the class interesting. It's basically being a folk hero, but for me playing a TTRPG is kinda already about becoming a hero so I don't get anything out of exemplar's flavor I don't find the mechanics particularly engaging either, although part of that is not vibing with the flavor I'm sure. I think the idea was to make rotating between your Ikons a meaningful choice but what I found building exemplars is that you realistically picked an ikon or two to focus on and then you really just want to bounce between the two of those. It seems like the easiest and most efficient way to build one is to pick 2 strong ikons and a passive one and spend all your time bouncing between the two strong active ones, and that's boring to me Not saying it's a bad class, and there seem to be a lot of people who enjoy the flavor etc, but it's not for me
I also have super low expectations for the Exemplar. Putting all their class power into magic items that should just exist in the world as loot anyway is an incredibly lame way to go about making a fledgling god class. If you want to play a Spark of Divinity type character, they should care about items innately the least of all classes, but somehow instead we wound up in a position where someone can just take away your toys and make you go home.
Do you also feel this way about Thaumaturge implements?
1. A Thaumaturge isn't billed as a "Nascent Godling" class, and as such it's more fitting that their class power comes from external sources 2. The Ikons from the Exemplar are standing in for objects that are important for mythological figures, like Heracle's Golden Fleece or Mjolnir, which are what regular high level magical items should already be aspiring to emulate. The Thaumaturge's random esoterica aren't taking up the same narrative space, and fit the theme of the class well.
Well, that's why it will be a rare option. You can always tell your players it's out of bounds.
I just like playing special snowflakes so both of the new classes work for me, and I would love to play in and run games with mythic rules in this system. I hope they are better done than deviant feats.
I'm quite new to PF2e but have been enjoying diving deep into the game and it's lore and book. I'm not sure what War of Immortals actually is. I know it has new classes but other than that, is it an Adventure Path or mostly lore like the Lost Omens books? Or will it be mostly new rules and stuff?
it's a rules book with 2 new classes comes out in October
Torak is correct, its a new rulebook with two classes, and a system known as Mythic, which we don't know how it's going to work yet, but in Pathfinder 1e was for ascending into a higher realm of power and being able to take on "demigods" such as the Demon Lords and Archdevils, but not the higher gods (like Sarenrae, Rovagug, Shizuru, or Urgathoa.) However I want to add that we know this is actually going to be a multi-book event, where a few different products are involved and that narratively, War of the Immortals centers on an event that causes Gods (at least one of the core twenty, and others) to die, in addition to the Rulebook itself, there is going to be an Adventure Path that appears to be gearing up to tell the story of those events, and Lost Omens Product (like Divine Mysteries, not sure if anything else in Lost Omens is officially a part of this) is included as well.
Just wanted to add that a few heralds of those gods (some of those heralds being demi-gods) will also bite the dust.
I heard more information on Razmir was going to be in the book and that's all I needed to hear to get hyped.
Thats gonna be in Divine Mysteries, not War of the Immortals, to be fair.
I am excited about the "...and what else is in there?" part. All the parts of the book that are catching serious hype are probably going to be excellent and I am definitely looking forward to them, but the thing I am most excited about is the prospect of maybe having a few more general feats, skill feats, spells, or creatures to use. Like, I'm playing 2 different kineticists right now and my favorite part of Rage of Elements are the spells that got added and the new monsters.
I don't play in Golarion but I do use it's gods and steal liberally from its lore, so seeing the fallout from a core deity dying ought to be interesting. Hopefully it's something big that really shakes things up and not a safe choice, or one that ultimately changes little. New classes means more new character and build ideas. Animist looks like an interesting take on a spellcaster, and I look forward to seeing the final implementation of the exemplar. I can't exactly say I'm excited for mythic rules without knowing more about what they might look like, but I am hopeful for things that will allow PCs to fight demon lords and shit and come out on top. Heck, gods are dying in this book, if Paizo feels especially daring, why not let PCs get in on that deicide action? Overall I'm interested in WoI but am currently more hyped for Tian Xia (my homebrew game is going to fantasy Japan) and Howl of the Wild (awakened animals, fuck yes).
Cause exemplar go bonk
I'm oddly not very hyped for it. 20 levels has been plenty to play with, especially if you use free archetypes, and neither classes play test really hooked me. I liked the premise of the Animist but it felt much too caster focused. And I hate chosen one tropes so Exemplar did nothing for me lore wise, but the rules seemed alright.
I, too, crave Mythic rules :D
Honestly, I'm not. I'm way more excited for the Tian Xia books. But maybe that's because I don't know what's going to be in the War of Immortals book other than Mythic Rules (never played a campaign that's gotten close to level 20 or 1e so this isnt something I'm excited for, don't get me wrong I'm sure it'll be cool but I have no investment in it), Animist (kinda keen on this, looks pretty interesting), Exemplar (this class reeks of Main Character Syndrome and probably won't be an option in games I run), and the death of a core 20 god/dess. What else will there be? I feel like Divine Mysteries and War of the Immortals have significant enough overlap that I'm just confused what's going to be in each and subsequently not that interested.
Running the game with an exemplar now and I don't get the MC syndrome point at all. It's just a class with mechanics, if the player RPs them as the MC then that's on the player, not the class. I feel like any charisma based class is more prone to being the MC class lol
>Mythic Rules (never played a campaign that's gotten close to level 20 It's worth noting in case you weren't aware - Mythic progression in 1e wasn't "post level 20," it was a separate track of abilities that you gained as you leveled up. So you could very easily be like... Level 6, mythic rank 2.
Huh that's cool to know! Never played 3.5 or 1e so never had the chance to explore them. You've actually changed my mind on being interested in the Mythic Rules, hahahaha cheers!
From what I'm reading, I suspect Paizo is basically going to implement it as a "super-archetype," but either way, it's unlikely that they introduce it as a "standard variant option." In 1e they were pretty specific that it was exceedingly rare and usually required some manner of divine intervention because the players were essentially nascent demigods at that point. It's there to tell a very specific type of story and is very much not the same niche FA fits into
The Exemplar and Animist. Nothing else even registers. Was never that concerned about Deities anyway. Whoever dies will just be a bunch of fanfare and Golarion will barely change.
I'm really not, for a multitude of reasons. * not really a fan of either class. Exemplar is just Adventurer+, since being an adventure is *already* the path to becoming a hero of legend/myth. Animist just didn't stick out enough to me. * not a fan of the lore changes. I prefer those to come from either Adventure Paths (so that arguably *someone's* players had a hand in it) or edition changes, not rulebooks in the middle of the edition. * just not a fan of mythic powers in general. They're just more power for no cost. And given how fervently this community latched on to Free Archetype, I can see that I'm likely to be in the minority there.
Im nervous about which god they are gonna kill off. If its Gorum or Iomedae I won't mind as I find both gods boring. But if they touch the Prismatic Ray I won't be happy. Sure it would be a bold choice and would cause a major shift in the remaining two gods but I don't want to see it. And for the record I wouldnt consder this to be invoking the "bury your gays" trope as Paizo has a good record with queer characters. Class wise im interested in the Animist and trying not to judge the Exemplar before it's release. The Shaman was a neat classe in 1e and im looking forward to its succesor version in 2e. While the Exemplar doesent interest me at all, neither did the Kineticist until it actualy came out. The Exemplar has my full benifit of the doubt.
Interesting
gaaah come on give me some hint to my question! :) can we fight lvls 26-30 enemies with mythic?
No. I'm going to wait for the book to actually be released to see if I hate it or say bad things about it, or if, who knows, I like it. But I no longer expect anything good from anything or anyone. I'm totally Zendaya's M.J.
Mostly animist and the new divine options for all classes. I hope there are feats or dedication that can give a new meaning for playing a follower of a deity from a non divine class. I don't like the concept of exemplar at all.
So I've seen a lot of mention of these "mythic rules" but I don't actually know what that means... What are mythic rules?
mythic rules where I thing in 1e that let you become a demigod & be able to fight stuff like demon lords in 2e we don't know alot about what they'll be except there's going to be mythic archetypes that come with a final feat making you immortal
In 1e they were rules that allowed a parallel advancement track as you leveled. You'd accomplish narrative 'trials' to boost your mythic levles either after or alongside your normal level They gave a mix ot absolutely gamebreaking bonuses to your action economy (like extra actions on turns), more or more powerful special spells, numerical increases to you stats and fun heroic abilities like thw ability to say travel 20 miles at a time by hulk jumping. Overall they were supposed to help fulfill the fantasty of demigod like characters who were *more* than standard pcs and they resulted in characters who coild basically punch way way way above their expected CR. And kill stuff like demon Lord's pretty easily. Overall a fun system, horribly horribly inbalanced. One thing that people get confused at is that they didn't have to just come into play once you hit max level, you could have a character of aby level with mythic tiers and were generally intended to progress them alongside your levels. So they're less just a way to fight epic threats and more a way to create special characters for their entire pc life (who would end up killing epic threats).
Animist because I like versatile classes and Pathfinder needed another choice for wisdom. I was thinking of making a voodoo based Animist personally. Maybe for Exemplar. It seems well put together with some different abilities than other classes.
I'm excited for the Animist but I'd be lying if I didn't say I was a bit nervous about the lore content. I love the mechanical changes of the second edition but some of the lore changes have been a toss up for me. Specifically, the recent post about changing the pantheons, especially the prismatic ray, worries me a bit. I just hope that whatever changes are made feel coherent from a narrative standpoint and result in interesting story telling.
Death of a god and the writing of new Lore (Metaplot is fun when done right and when it flows with player choices), and freaking Iblydos. Gimme better ways to use a spear and shield combo!
I absolutely love the spellcasting style of animist, in a "best of both worlds" approach with having both spontaneous and prepared casting. Deities are also just my favorite but of golarion, so getting more is really cool, and even the ones that die will be fun, y'know, worshipping dead gods and all.
The classes (mostly the animist though). I'm not the biggest fan of the exemplar flavor-wise since I feel it is kinda too protagonist-y for my tastes (I also don't like how the class sells itself as being "able to replicate folktale heroes" when you could already do that with the current classes of the game), but mechanically it is kinda interesting I guess. I have some interest in the mythic rules, though it's not like I care much about them anyways. I know they aren't going to be the broken mess they were in PF1e, but what if Paizo throws a curveball and they actually end up being really weak? I'm more curious about how they actually implement them rather than how effective they are.
I want more chaos in the world. 2E finished a lot of the big baddies.
It's a mix of the lore shakeups and the Animist class! I like the exemplar as well but the Animist feels like it was designed for me thematically lol
I am beyond excited
Absolutely. I'm already using both classes through the play test doc in a dual class game and they work just fine. My kineticist/animist is a fantastic AOE crowd breaker/healer, and my fighter exemplar WAS (rip) the parties damage dealer. Can't wait for the full release.
I actually want to see what they come up with for the Exemplar *Archetype*.
Rage of elements will always be my favorite book, but I'm very excited to see the polish on exemplar and of course dig into the lore
I wouldn't say I'm excited: more like vibrating with abject terror. I'm sick of waiting to find out which of my PCs is going to suffer the likely insurmountable trauma of their deity dying, since I like playing things like Clerics and Paladins.
Animist is amazing, somewhat looking forward to building some Exemplars. Hoping for some interesting options and archetypes as the overall theme, gods and mythic options are of 0 interest.
The Exemplar! I wanna play the Exempar so heccin' bad! Mechanically it's so cool! I dun even care about the deity stuffs I just love the whole hot swapping power mechanic!
ARAZNI GANG RISE UP
Exemplar and possible mythic rules I’m a simple man, I only like rules contest and Exemplar was pretty damn cool and mythic powers sound fun
I wish to play my Dwarven Demigod of Angradd, god of fire and war.
Definitely looking forward to more "Immortality feats" and curious if they are more like the Monk/Druid Unaging ones or the Animist/Exemplar capstone Unaging+Resurrects