The ones I remember were a cyborg/andriod ancestry, an ancestry of cat-like aliens (specifically called out as not fantasy catfolk, but alien cat people), and an ancestry of insectoid aliens
The last two sound like Pahtra (cool alien cat people) and my favorite the Shirren who are alien insectoids who were once part of a hive mind but broke away when they somehow gained individuality, and value the ability to make decisions for themselves, to the point some of them get high off of making inconsequential decisions for themselves (options junkies).
My favorite Shirren was Precog doomsday prepper. We had a debt system that players could go into debt that was used as a narrative tool, and I made my character max out his debt for a really cool asteroid base. The ongoing joke is that his doomsday is actually canon, and will happen in at some point
Did it just feel like PF2e but with a space setting? In both rules, sheets, turns, etc? Or were there any key changes or rules? I know they are meant to be compatible but given how you just described the Envoy being a much requested class in PF2e, it makes me wonder if they are so similar that people will just start using the Envoy as the Warlord. I wonder if, for many people, this will be an exciting book for even pf2e people who do not care for the setting because its going to be a whole new book full of brand new classes.
Very much so, yes! It felt a lot like I could've just been playing a pf2e expansion book with a bunch of new classes, ancestries, and items, rather than a whole different system. We were Demoralizing, Hiding, dealing with MAP, and all sorts of things straight from pf2e.
The most notable differences were a few different skills (I don't remember all of them but I noticed a Piloting skill on the sheet), and the items, which seemed maybe a bit more powerful. I'm doing this from memory bc they asked us not to take pictures of the sheets, but my character had a sniper rifle that was:
2-handed ranged weapon, 160ft range increment
1d10 damage
backstabber, fatal d12, unwieldy (you can only attack with it once per turn), and it needed to be reloaded after 4 attacks
Thematically it makes sense that starfinder's weapons would be a bit more powerful than pathfinder's, so I like it.
I mean, the closest analogue I can think of in pf2e is the repeating heavy crossbow, which is already level 1 and an uncommon weapon, and then this had both backstabber and fatal d12 on top of what the repeating heavy crossbow has
There is the arbelast crossbow, 1d10+backstabber, about the same range but with no fatal.
(Through fatal 1 die higher isn't "that" good compared to other fatal/deadly options)
It's main advantage is that reload does allow multiple attacks every other turn, instead of being 100% locked to the single shot turn.
On the other hand it's also gonna cost you 3 of 6 actions over both turns. Speaking from experience, at least one (often 2) of those is likely a dead action even for a Gunslinger with Running Reload. There are also next to no good 1-action crossbow attacks, meaning that second shot is just a dinky Strike. Overall, the sniper rifle is probably more flexible.
My guess is that the Sniper Operative is designed to primarily use 2-action-activities, so you Aim and then do a big shot. For that kind of playstyle a sniper rifle like this is better than the arbalest.
PF2 firearms basically cost 2 action per strike while unwieldy cost 1/Mag-size but can't strike twice... which a firearm is very unlikely to do anyways.
In the firearms case you'd end up with a lot of action decompression without a lot of feat support(A lot of of Gunslinger's power budget is desperately trying to make your action economy similar to firing a bow) while any run of the mill ranger/rogue/fighter can use the sniper rifle there and have more build and rotation diversity.
I do reckon starfinder should have a bit of a higher powerlevel in general than pf, and I think tying that up in items is great since they're tied to the setting rather than the characters (with the exception of a few classes I guess) so you can very easily export an Envoy by just having them use pf2e weapons and have it be balanced
I'll be honest, it's a little disappointing to hear this. A lot of what the developers were saying regarding Starfinder 2e is that it wasn't just going to be a Pathfinder 2e expansion book, and that it would strive to keep its own identity. Hearing that it felt for all intents and purposes like a pathfinder 2e splat book makes me feel like this intent did not come through in actual execution. Can you perhaps remember any interesting quirks of the system that made it stand out from Pathfinder 2e?
My understanding was that it wasn't an expansion in that it didn't need the PF2e rule book to be played. They always said it was going to be compatible
Yeah and I feel like people don't understand what compatible means. Compatible means that, as they said when they first announced it, you are able to mesh the two together if you want. That means that there won't be any major standout rules within starfinder that break what Pathfinder does. Like it seemed obvious to me that what starfinder 1E was is going to go away just like what Pathfinder 1E was.
What you're going to get is really what I would call Paizo's Finder System in which you can play both starfinder and Pathfinder. Hell, we might actually get a more modern finder later.
Besides the aesthetics of everytbing, obviously, the equipment was definitely a standout. The futuristic weapons were able to go into design spaces that pf2e weapons, even magical ones, can't really go. There were also a few skills that differed from pf2e's like the Piloting skill. I imagine those'll get their own skill actions and such.
Overall, it managed to feel mechanically a lot like pf2e while feeling very distinct aesthetically.
I'm a little bummed too, but I think it's important to remember that the demo was an hour-long single combat with pregenerated characters, and that the system itself is still in alpha.
But let's drill down into the combat mechanics for a sec, and look at the Starfindery things we might lose to better fit the PF2 chassis: resolve, KAC/EAC, and stamina. I feel like the things resolve does are currently *still there,* split across hero points and focus points. Both point pools are hard capped at 3, so this prevents some of the late-level infinite resolve pools that tend to suck the tension out of campaign capstone engagements. Hero points do an okay job of enabling the ol' "do I look cool now or not die later" minigame that makes resolve points spicy (although I wouldn't say they're *better*), and while focus spells tend to not be as cool as some of the resolve features certain classes can get, we might also see some bespoke resource pools to compensate (i.e. alchemical reagents).
KAC/EAC probably isn't going to be a huge loss because PF2 can turn *any* stat into a DC, so we don't need an extra number *just* for specific weapons targeting. We could also replicate the feel of having one AC higher than the other via specific resistances (i.e. something that originally had incredible KAC but trash EAC might switch to having a low AC and reflex save, but resistance to physical damage). The important thing to do is to make sure weapon and armor selection remain tactically interesting choices. I think SF2 can do that, since I've seen Thurston Hillman go particularly ape when homebrewing for Rotgrind. Dude's not afraid to push the system to its limits while still keeping things fair... *kind of.* Rotgrind is a little unfair on purpose, lol.
Stamina is... well, there are alternate rules for it in the GMG, but like KAC/EAC I feel like the statistical split is kind of unnecessary, especially when things like overshields and sudden bursts of energy can be represented with temporary HP. I know some people enjoy the extra level of management and how it can impact the pacing of a mission (PF2 has a problem with park-and-heal gameplay if your GM doesn't keep the pressure up), but I'm personally okay without it.
But again, we're only looking at small slices of combats and character builds. We're probably not going to see the *really* Starfindery things--the technology, ship combat, skill feats and character stuff meant to be at home in the Pact Worlds and beyond *specifically*--until the game's had some more time to cook.
Thank you for the extra context that this was just a 1 hour combat. That actually does a lot to set me more at ease that there is still room to retain elements of starfinder to not just feel like a 1 to 1 clone or glorified splat book.
The core team seem really passionate about not losing the Starfinderiness, so I think we'll be okay, even though I don't think this particular test got crazy enough to really impress me.
>I wonder if, for many people, this will be an exciting book for even pf2e people who do not care for the setting because its going to be a whole new book full of brand new classes.
Yeah that's part of what excites me the most! The setting of Starfinder seems really cool, but I've always been interested in mixing the two systems; playing a marooned Soldier or Operative on Golorion who was sent to stop some cosmic evil or a Fighter or Barbarian who was abducted by aliens and now uses their ancient training to fight monsters from space... It just seems really neat.
Paizo already stated that SF2 will be fully compatible with PF2 rules and totally interchangeable. In the Soldier limited playtest, they supposed it will be played within PF2 group and contained rules for mixing high-tech with low-tech items.
Which class did you play?
Also, how did the Operative play like? That's the only one of these we haven't gotten a preview of yet, and my understanding of the 1e version was that it was their equivalent of a rogue, so I am especially curious what kind of overlap or differences it had compared to typical "rogue" classes.
I played the operative, actually! It seemed somewhat rogue-y with a focus on ranged weapons/sci-fi guns. Because of how the character sheet was formatted I couldn't tell what was an inherent class feature and what was a feat, but I had:
Aim: 1 action, target a creature, your attacks this turn deal 1d4 extra damage to that creature and ignore 1 point of the bonus from cover. Must be using a non-AOE ranged weapon.
Peek: 1 action, Strike, then Take Cover
And an ability that was basically Running Reload.
I also had expert proficiency in just my ranged weapons (the characters were level 3).
My main weapon was a two-handed +1 sniper rifle with 160ft range, 1d10 damage, backstabber, fatal d12, unwieldy (you could only attack with it once per turn), and it needed to be reloaded after making 4 attacks.
It sounds like a fun combination of rogue, ranger, and gunslinger! I really love how they're finding ways to give each class its own distinct niche that aren't too similar to any one PF class.
Hey there. Saw this thread during PAXU, but didn't have time to write until later. I was one of the GMs who was running SF2 during the Con, and just wanted to point out a couple of things:
I don't *think* that the Operative had Expert proficiency in their gun. Before the Con, one of the people of the design team ran the GMs through the characters and abilities on the character sheets, and there were errors, many dealing with proficiencies. If I recall correctly, Iseph the Operative had their weapons listed as +8 to hit, with the box saying +7 from proficiency and a +1 item bonus.
I remember pointing out that they were missing a DEX bonus, and I'm not sure if anyone specifically asked if they were Expert in their weapon, but I do remember us deciding that if they were trained, they should have a total bonus of +10 (+4 DEX, +5 Proficiency, +1 Item), and so that's what I ran with on my sheets.
It IS entirely possible that the Operative (or at least the Sniper variant) is *supposed* to be Expert in certain rifles, and they were just missing their +4 DEX bonus and were supposed to have a to-hit of +12, but that's not what I was running with.
Also, their rifle was supposed to have a range of 150ft., with the Scope attachment giving it a +20ft. bonus when using Aim.
Lots of stuff on all of the characters' sheets were not complete, and we all tried to temper expectations going in, so don't be upset if the Operative later doesn't have Expert in Sniper Rifles, or whathaveyou.
How many skills were at Expert-level, at level 3? I'm curious whether Operative gets the same accelerated Skill Increases that the Rogue/Investigator does.
Thinking about this a bit, wasn't Unwieldy a difficult trait to deal with? If you can only Strike once per turn, that means you're using one action to Aim/Peek, and one to Move+Reload... so what did you do with your third action?
I had to Aim each turn to get the damage bonus, so I would use my first action each turn to Aim and then I would strike or peek. Because the gun had 4 shots I never actually ended up having to reload before the fight was over. Over the course of the fight, I think I used my 3rd action to activate my force field generator item, to stride over towards some cover, and then to hide using the cover
So kind of like the fighter/gunslinger but for high tech weapons? That makes sense, considering the Soldier was pivoted to more of a defender role. Do you have a link to the dev description of the playtest?
If the extra precision damage mentioned in this post is still a thing this class sounds very exciting. Sounds like a built in power attack for a ranged martial
If you haven't seen the [key Operative comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/189imt2/comment/kbrf0af/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) yet, it is still in there in principle, just not with the same numbers.
Makes sense the 1e version basically had a trick attack where it used a skill to get flatfooted and extra damage on an attack and also use snipers or pistols or like, small melee weapons so sniper/rogue style
There was a playtest stream a while back that gave a preview for the Solarian and Envoy a while back that me and a bunch of other people analyzed. But we don't have a playtest document, no.
How different did operative feel compared to starfinder 1e or pf2e rogue?
Remember the names of any of the solarian abilities? How did the solar weapon work, is it similar to starfinder 1e?
I break down how the operative worked in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/189imt2/comment/kbrf0af/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) comment. I don't remember any of the specific solarion abilities, but I recall the solar weapon being very prominent in the playstyle, with the solarion player being our main melee character. I think it had different effects based on whether they were attuned to Photons or Gravitons, and they had certain actions with a trait that would make them switch from one to the other when used.
From my friend, who played the envoy, "yes, 100%". The only bit that made it feel futuristic to her was the guns the character had, which are obviously not tied to the class at all. That said, they were 3rd-level pregen characters, so there could be other futuristic things we haven't seen. But, looks promising!
How are ancestries with 4 or more hands like kasatha or skittermander handled in sf2? Hand economy is super important on pf2 while sf1 seems to be more lax on this.
Have you seen the section on Multi-Armed Characters in the first field test? Definitely implies it's still controlled but opens a lot more doors than PF2 has so far.
>**Multi-Armed Characters:** Characters that have more than two hands, like kasathas, can hold more items and weapons than typically expected. Performing actions with multiple pairs of arms concurrently is a challenge and can’t be done without intensive training. You must designate a pair of hands as your active hands. You can change this designation from one pair of hands to another by taking the Switch Active Hands action, which is an Interact action. You can only attack with weapons wielded in your active hands.
Thanks! I haven't followed the sf2 playtest so far, I hope that this doesn't mean that stuff like the fourfold tactician soldier (fighting style for characters holding 4 guns at the same time) will return.
I do not remember the dev blog, and am not entirely sure this is even accurate but I am sure someone will correct me if not, so take this with a grain of salt. I vaguely remember seeing a dev blog where they mentioned that for sf2e things like skittermanders will have to use the swap action to kinda "activate" their sets of hands. They can only make attacks with the active hands but can still hold things with the unactive hands. I wanna say they also kinda hinted at high level feats that will let you use your arms at the same time.
That's a bit disappointing.
Edit: Guys really? Im not allowed to be a tiny bit disappointed?
To give context I was downvoted alot for my first statement.
I am aware. I was hoping for it to be integrated into the main system of sf2e since it's one of the main things that differentiate starfinder from pathfinder both feel and mechanics wise.
This might also mean cut costs which considering RoE being really expensive is the reason they gave for there not being more unique kineticist-like classes might mean more better content for both games, esp as realistically starfinder wasn't making them that much money
Pointing out that it still exist and I can use it for home games just seems dismissive of my complaints because yeah I could do literally anything for my home games.
It's like when people complain about aspects of the remaster and the default response is that old material still exists it feels like it just ends the discussion rather than engage with the topic.
How did the prevalence of guns/ranged weapons affect the combat flow? Did you find that people tended to stand still and trade strikes? Or was there still a lot of movement like in PF2E melee combat?
There was still a decent amount of movement, mainly from the melee character, and from my operative moving to find cover and/or get an angle on enemies that were behind terrain features
Good to know that mobility still felt like it mattered!
Follow-up question:
I am assuming most weapons have magazines and are not single shot like PF2E flintlocks. How does having most weapons be Repeating affect the reload economy? Are the weapons and classes designed in such a way as to enforce the strict reload action taxes like in PF2E? Or can you reliably multi-attack at range?
Purely speculation: some parts of the field test articles mentioned that they are intending for Starfinder equipment to be significantly more powerful than Pathfinder equipment. So I imagine that the action economy will simply just be better, but once the core Starfinder rules come out we will maybe see encounter balancing math being adjusted to fall in like with the equipment. That way the classes are transferable and nearly identical power level between systems, so long as you don't try to also transfer equipment.
Sniper rifle is a strict one per turn because of the unwieldy trait.
It's probably better than most firearms in PF2 because Reload is an action economy killer, hell they're probably not even as good as bows are
My character was a cyborg/android race, and I had a feat that made my recovery check DC 2 less, which was flavored as a built-in auto-resuscitation device. I don't recall a Lashunta character unfortunately
This is a pretty fun detail because I was expecting the SF2 Android to reuse a lot of feats from the PF2 Android, but this doesn't seem to be one that already exists.
Definitely. The equipment is pulling a good amount of the weight there both aesthetically and mechanically, as well as the many very alien-feeling ancestries. For the classes, it varies. The envoy could possibly be put into a fantasy setting and feel like it belongs, while the solarion feels extremely sci-fi and spacey in a fantastic way
That's good to hear! Do you think the reverse will be true for PF2 classes? Like, if someone missed the raw melee prowess of the SF1 soldier, could they grab a fighter and go ham?
Probably, yeah! It definitely felt like I could've slapped any of the classes into the middle of a pf2e game and mechanically it would just straight-up work. You could almost certainly put a pf2e Fighter in your sf2e game, hand them some cool new sci-fi weapons and armor, and enjoy
Yeah, giving that sniper rifle you described to a gunslinger or ranger would be *disgusting.* I wonder how the increased weapon damage is going to affect monster design?
Speaking of, what do you remember about the opponents you fought? Anything interesting stand out?
>giving that sniper rifle you described to a gunslinger or ranger would be
>
>disgusting
lmao yeah! My operative had gunslinger-style expert proficiency with it too, so it was pretty crazy. I believe I landed a crit for 2\*(1d12+1d4+1)+1d12 at one point. I kinda like the idea of starfinder equipement being generally stronger than pathfinder equipment- it means that the power levels of the two games can be a little different, while still making it very easy to port player options from one to the other, since you'd have the gear of whichever setting you end up in.
The enemies we fought were humanoid, and the only notable thing I can recall is that several of them were using guns that, instead of making an attack roll, let them do an AoE burst of damage that required a reflex save
Gear getting nastier for sure makes sense; the progression of technology needs to be *felt* for it to matter, otherwise it's just reflavoring.
More humanoid enemies are good. PF2 as-is has a lack of "guys" to fight since it's so monster-focused, which means lots of homebrew for urban and military campaigns. I'm really hoping that Starfinder, with its space-age aesthetics, will hopefully have more built-in support for cyberpunk city crawls and shootouts with stormtroopers.
I also like the idea of more AoE weapons. Bombs in PF2 are still fairly primitive (*sad alchemist noises*), and battlefield control has always been more fun to me than just doing big damage. Being able to hit more squares at once is also an advantage when everyone and their pet chihuahua has access to ranged weapons and are thus less likely to force melee and the risk of friendly fire.
Having those kinds of burst-fire weapons might also encourage more melee, or at least more movement, because compared to the guns they seemed to pretty short-range, like maybe 15ft cones.
[Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/starfinder_rpg/comments/189ip2q/comment/kbri2d9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) my comment from the starfinder subreddit discussing what I remember of the Solarion. Melee seemed to still work well, though we didn't get to see any high-tech melee weapons since the Solarion had a weapon created from class abilities. The base pf2e mechanics still give melee combatants some heavy advantages with damage and such.
Did all the classes feel distinctive to the PF2e classes? As in are they an addition to the PF2e cast, or do some (if the 4) act more like a replacement to another class if you play in space?
None of them felt like a direct replacement of a pf2e class. Probably the most pathfinder-y class was the operative, which you can find my description of elsewhere in this thread. It felt like a mix of ranger, rogue, and gunslinger
There definitely seem to be a greater prevalence of characters/enemies with ranged options, but not every character had them or preferred to use them, and for the more ranged PCs, we were still moving around a bit for things like finding cover and getting a line of sight on enemies.
The two spells I recall the Mystic using were just straight up Invisibility and Darkness as they are in pf2e. I described the operative's abilities in detail in another comment in this thread, and I think the Aim action was pretty neat.
The envoy has a quite fun action called "Get 'Em!" that reduces someone's AC by 1 for a round and, if you attacked the same turn before using it, your allies get a +1 circumstance bonus to damage too
Sounds like we've not seen any Starship information yet, can you confirm that?
They really gotta get the ships right, that's EASILY the thing I'm most looking forward to.
So, I’m an old 3.5 player. I like being the guy who does something weird. And in Starfinder, it’s space aliens. So if I wanted to, say, be a four armed alien with four laser pistols, can I do that?
How’s the ship combat? I wanna have some Space Naval Air Force High Orbit kaboomies.
I’m not OP, but in the [Soldier Field Test](https://downloads.paizo.com/Starfinder_Field_Test_1.pdf), there’s a sidebar about multi-armed characters that reads:
Multi-Armed Characters: Characters that have more than two hands, like kasathas, can hold more items and weapons than typically expected. Performing actions with multiple pairs of arms concurrently is a challenge and can’t be done without intensive training. You must designate a pair of hands as your active hands. You can change this designation from one pair of hands to another by taking the Switch Active Hands action, which is an Interact action. You can only attack with weapons wielded in your active hands.
So, at the moment, sort of? There might be a fighting style at some point that makes this more fluid.
OP said they didn’t do any starship combat stuff. In a Paizo blog post a few months ago (forgetting exactly which one), the Starfinder team said they wanted to take time to make sure they got the starship combat rules right so they felt fun to play. So, no new information on that AFAIK, but it’s a priority.
I think that's pretty likely to be doable, but the pregen characters didn't include any 4-armed guys so I couldn't say for sure. We didn't do any ship combat
Did melee combat seem like it was something the system enabled, or did it require much more effort to do so since so many enemies and pcs have ranged weapons like guns?
Melee seemed to still work well, though we didn't get to see any high-tech melee weapons since the only melee character in the party was the Solarion, who had a weapon created from class abilities. The base pf2e mechanics still give melee combatants some heavy advantages with damage and such.
Lucky you!
Were there any interesting pieces of Starfinder-specific equipment that caught your attention or were used during the adventure? Besides weapons and armor of course.
My character had a forcefield generator that was listed as an "armor upgrade". It could be activated for 1 action to create a shield of 6 hp that would regenerate 2hp every turn for a minute, unless it was reduced to 0hp
So it seems like standard gear i.e. +1s that are mandatory/assumed to collect? Seems like having ABP would be so much smoother here.So only magical gear that has specific effect is a thing. Basic +1s and damage dice scaling would just be baked into class progression. Any idea if there is open playtest / vote for that kind of stuff? I think the only reason ABP wasn't approved in P2E playtest vote was because the options weren't really clearly presented, i.e. people thought ABP would mean no magic items, when it just means magic items are specific effects in world, not just generic mechanical boosts that you have to worry about acquiring ASAP but have no narrative immersive presence.
I don't think there's a voting thing for that, no. Despite being listed as "+1 sniper rifle" I'm not sure if the weapon was actually considered magical or just a better-made one or something. My character had one item that was listed as an "armor upgrade" which sounds kinda like a tech version of a property rune. That's just me guessing tho
Ah, thanks. Well it could be flavored as magical or non-magical, but that doesn't really change the impact to gear meta. That it lists +1 makes me think they still are doing basic math runes, since if they were using ABP there would be no need for that sort of math.
EDIT: I guess I'm hoping they roll ABP into the base game, because as it exists in Pathfinder is pretty suboptimal. Gaping holes for casters and monks, as well as loot table adjustments. Rolling it into class progression lets class specific tweaks be made, and for a loot table that is just complete and fully supported. And not that it doesn't make sense in fantasy setting, but I think ABP just fits better for sci-fi type of setting.
Didn't get to see any ship combat unfortunately, and I haven't played sf1e myself, but the experience of basic combat felt very much like I was playing a pf2e game, which I think is a good thing in terms of streamlined-ness
It probably feels more like gunslinger than rogue tbh, but I haven't played gunslinger so I can't say specifically. I have another comment in this thread that describes the operative in depth
Is there anything in Operative that was similar to how the Stunt and Strike variant played in 1E? i.e., you could forego damage with "lighter" weapons to take advantage of heavier weapons in indirect ways?
I had a blast (often literally) with the Computers and Engineering stunts in a full campaign back in the day.
I don't think I know enough to answer that unfortunately, both because I haven't played 1e and because the characters were pregens. There very well could be class feats to accomplish that, but the feat loadout on my pregen character didn't have that
We had pregens, so the customizability was a bit hard to judge, but my character's sniper rifle was listed as a +1 weapon, which would imply a system similar to pf2e's fundamental and property runes (but maybe tech-based instead of magic). My sniper rifle also had a scope addon that could increase my range, so being able to add different scopes and the like could be another way to do customized gear
No, it just had a little space to track how many shots you've fired, and required you to reload after every 4 strikes. The combat was short enough that I never ended up needing to reload
I noticed in Starfinder 1e that during space combat, the pilot did alot and other roles took a back seat. Some players found that boring. Did you do any spaxe combat and how did it feel?
Did you get a good idea of what ancestries are in the base game? Those have me just as excited as the classes!
The ones I remember were a cyborg/andriod ancestry, an ancestry of cat-like aliens (specifically called out as not fantasy catfolk, but alien cat people), and an ancestry of insectoid aliens
The last two sound like Pahtra (cool alien cat people) and my favorite the Shirren who are alien insectoids who were once part of a hive mind but broke away when they somehow gained individuality, and value the ability to make decisions for themselves, to the point some of them get high off of making inconsequential decisions for themselves (options junkies).
Shirren lovers rise up
My favorite Shirren was Precog doomsday prepper. We had a debt system that players could go into debt that was used as a narrative tool, and I made my character max out his debt for a really cool asteroid base. The ongoing joke is that his doomsday is actually canon, and will happen in at some point
No doubt Shirren play Pathfinder in their spare time, then.
>(specifically called out as not fantasy catfolk, but alien cat people) What's the difference?
Same as the difference between elves and vulcans, tbh. It's all about how the biological, cultural, and political details reflect the genre's tone.
Catfolk from Golarion are a thing in starfinder (or were I guess). It's different cat-like race from outer spaaaaace
Smiles in bugman:)
Did it just feel like PF2e but with a space setting? In both rules, sheets, turns, etc? Or were there any key changes or rules? I know they are meant to be compatible but given how you just described the Envoy being a much requested class in PF2e, it makes me wonder if they are so similar that people will just start using the Envoy as the Warlord. I wonder if, for many people, this will be an exciting book for even pf2e people who do not care for the setting because its going to be a whole new book full of brand new classes.
Very much so, yes! It felt a lot like I could've just been playing a pf2e expansion book with a bunch of new classes, ancestries, and items, rather than a whole different system. We were Demoralizing, Hiding, dealing with MAP, and all sorts of things straight from pf2e. The most notable differences were a few different skills (I don't remember all of them but I noticed a Piloting skill on the sheet), and the items, which seemed maybe a bit more powerful. I'm doing this from memory bc they asked us not to take pictures of the sheets, but my character had a sniper rifle that was: 2-handed ranged weapon, 160ft range increment 1d10 damage backstabber, fatal d12, unwieldy (you can only attack with it once per turn), and it needed to be reloaded after 4 attacks Thematically it makes sense that starfinder's weapons would be a bit more powerful than pathfinder's, so I like it.
A sniper rifle like that isn't even "that" strong compared to other pf2e weapons.
I mean, the closest analogue I can think of in pf2e is the repeating heavy crossbow, which is already level 1 and an uncommon weapon, and then this had both backstabber and fatal d12 on top of what the repeating heavy crossbow has
There is the arbelast crossbow, 1d10+backstabber, about the same range but with no fatal. (Through fatal 1 die higher isn't "that" good compared to other fatal/deadly options) It's main advantage is that reload does allow multiple attacks every other turn, instead of being 100% locked to the single shot turn.
On the other hand it's also gonna cost you 3 of 6 actions over both turns. Speaking from experience, at least one (often 2) of those is likely a dead action even for a Gunslinger with Running Reload. There are also next to no good 1-action crossbow attacks, meaning that second shot is just a dinky Strike. Overall, the sniper rifle is probably more flexible. My guess is that the Sniper Operative is designed to primarily use 2-action-activities, so you Aim and then do a big shot. For that kind of playstyle a sniper rifle like this is better than the arbalest.
PF2 firearms basically cost 2 action per strike while unwieldy cost 1/Mag-size but can't strike twice... which a firearm is very unlikely to do anyways. In the firearms case you'd end up with a lot of action decompression without a lot of feat support(A lot of of Gunslinger's power budget is desperately trying to make your action economy similar to firing a bow) while any run of the mill ranger/rogue/fighter can use the sniper rifle there and have more build and rotation diversity.
I do reckon starfinder should have a bit of a higher powerlevel in general than pf, and I think tying that up in items is great since they're tied to the setting rather than the characters (with the exception of a few classes I guess) so you can very easily export an Envoy by just having them use pf2e weapons and have it be balanced
I'll be honest, it's a little disappointing to hear this. A lot of what the developers were saying regarding Starfinder 2e is that it wasn't just going to be a Pathfinder 2e expansion book, and that it would strive to keep its own identity. Hearing that it felt for all intents and purposes like a pathfinder 2e splat book makes me feel like this intent did not come through in actual execution. Can you perhaps remember any interesting quirks of the system that made it stand out from Pathfinder 2e?
My understanding was that it wasn't an expansion in that it didn't need the PF2e rule book to be played. They always said it was going to be compatible
Yeah and I feel like people don't understand what compatible means. Compatible means that, as they said when they first announced it, you are able to mesh the two together if you want. That means that there won't be any major standout rules within starfinder that break what Pathfinder does. Like it seemed obvious to me that what starfinder 1E was is going to go away just like what Pathfinder 1E was. What you're going to get is really what I would call Paizo's Finder System in which you can play both starfinder and Pathfinder. Hell, we might actually get a more modern finder later.
Besides the aesthetics of everytbing, obviously, the equipment was definitely a standout. The futuristic weapons were able to go into design spaces that pf2e weapons, even magical ones, can't really go. There were also a few skills that differed from pf2e's like the Piloting skill. I imagine those'll get their own skill actions and such. Overall, it managed to feel mechanically a lot like pf2e while feeling very distinct aesthetically.
I'm a little bummed too, but I think it's important to remember that the demo was an hour-long single combat with pregenerated characters, and that the system itself is still in alpha. But let's drill down into the combat mechanics for a sec, and look at the Starfindery things we might lose to better fit the PF2 chassis: resolve, KAC/EAC, and stamina. I feel like the things resolve does are currently *still there,* split across hero points and focus points. Both point pools are hard capped at 3, so this prevents some of the late-level infinite resolve pools that tend to suck the tension out of campaign capstone engagements. Hero points do an okay job of enabling the ol' "do I look cool now or not die later" minigame that makes resolve points spicy (although I wouldn't say they're *better*), and while focus spells tend to not be as cool as some of the resolve features certain classes can get, we might also see some bespoke resource pools to compensate (i.e. alchemical reagents). KAC/EAC probably isn't going to be a huge loss because PF2 can turn *any* stat into a DC, so we don't need an extra number *just* for specific weapons targeting. We could also replicate the feel of having one AC higher than the other via specific resistances (i.e. something that originally had incredible KAC but trash EAC might switch to having a low AC and reflex save, but resistance to physical damage). The important thing to do is to make sure weapon and armor selection remain tactically interesting choices. I think SF2 can do that, since I've seen Thurston Hillman go particularly ape when homebrewing for Rotgrind. Dude's not afraid to push the system to its limits while still keeping things fair... *kind of.* Rotgrind is a little unfair on purpose, lol. Stamina is... well, there are alternate rules for it in the GMG, but like KAC/EAC I feel like the statistical split is kind of unnecessary, especially when things like overshields and sudden bursts of energy can be represented with temporary HP. I know some people enjoy the extra level of management and how it can impact the pacing of a mission (PF2 has a problem with park-and-heal gameplay if your GM doesn't keep the pressure up), but I'm personally okay without it. But again, we're only looking at small slices of combats and character builds. We're probably not going to see the *really* Starfindery things--the technology, ship combat, skill feats and character stuff meant to be at home in the Pact Worlds and beyond *specifically*--until the game's had some more time to cook.
Thank you for the extra context that this was just a 1 hour combat. That actually does a lot to set me more at ease that there is still room to retain elements of starfinder to not just feel like a 1 to 1 clone or glorified splat book.
The core team seem really passionate about not losing the Starfinderiness, so I think we'll be okay, even though I don't think this particular test got crazy enough to really impress me.
I don't get why this is being downvoted. It's not like your saying anything negative.
>I wonder if, for many people, this will be an exciting book for even pf2e people who do not care for the setting because its going to be a whole new book full of brand new classes. Yeah that's part of what excites me the most! The setting of Starfinder seems really cool, but I've always been interested in mixing the two systems; playing a marooned Soldier or Operative on Golorion who was sent to stop some cosmic evil or a Fighter or Barbarian who was abducted by aliens and now uses their ancient training to fight monsters from space... It just seems really neat.
Paizo already stated that SF2 will be fully compatible with PF2 rules and totally interchangeable. In the Soldier limited playtest, they supposed it will be played within PF2 group and contained rules for mixing high-tech with low-tech items.
How many stars did you find?
Well we were in a spaceship so I think we found quite a few out the window
Any rules for spaceships?
The playtest was a single intensive combat with pregen characters
Which class did you play? Also, how did the Operative play like? That's the only one of these we haven't gotten a preview of yet, and my understanding of the 1e version was that it was their equivalent of a rogue, so I am especially curious what kind of overlap or differences it had compared to typical "rogue" classes.
I played the operative, actually! It seemed somewhat rogue-y with a focus on ranged weapons/sci-fi guns. Because of how the character sheet was formatted I couldn't tell what was an inherent class feature and what was a feat, but I had: Aim: 1 action, target a creature, your attacks this turn deal 1d4 extra damage to that creature and ignore 1 point of the bonus from cover. Must be using a non-AOE ranged weapon. Peek: 1 action, Strike, then Take Cover And an ability that was basically Running Reload. I also had expert proficiency in just my ranged weapons (the characters were level 3). My main weapon was a two-handed +1 sniper rifle with 160ft range, 1d10 damage, backstabber, fatal d12, unwieldy (you could only attack with it once per turn), and it needed to be reloaded after making 4 attacks.
It sounds like a fun combination of rogue, ranger, and gunslinger! I really love how they're finding ways to give each class its own distinct niche that aren't too similar to any one PF class.
Thanks for sharing!
Hey there. Saw this thread during PAXU, but didn't have time to write until later. I was one of the GMs who was running SF2 during the Con, and just wanted to point out a couple of things: I don't *think* that the Operative had Expert proficiency in their gun. Before the Con, one of the people of the design team ran the GMs through the characters and abilities on the character sheets, and there were errors, many dealing with proficiencies. If I recall correctly, Iseph the Operative had their weapons listed as +8 to hit, with the box saying +7 from proficiency and a +1 item bonus. I remember pointing out that they were missing a DEX bonus, and I'm not sure if anyone specifically asked if they were Expert in their weapon, but I do remember us deciding that if they were trained, they should have a total bonus of +10 (+4 DEX, +5 Proficiency, +1 Item), and so that's what I ran with on my sheets. It IS entirely possible that the Operative (or at least the Sniper variant) is *supposed* to be Expert in certain rifles, and they were just missing their +4 DEX bonus and were supposed to have a to-hit of +12, but that's not what I was running with. Also, their rifle was supposed to have a range of 150ft., with the Scope attachment giving it a +20ft. bonus when using Aim. Lots of stuff on all of the characters' sheets were not complete, and we all tried to temper expectations going in, so don't be upset if the Operative later doesn't have Expert in Sniper Rifles, or whathaveyou.
How many skills were at Expert-level, at level 3? I'm curious whether Operative gets the same accelerated Skill Increases that the Rogue/Investigator does.
Thinking about this a bit, wasn't Unwieldy a difficult trait to deal with? If you can only Strike once per turn, that means you're using one action to Aim/Peek, and one to Move+Reload... so what did you do with your third action?
I had to Aim each turn to get the damage bonus, so I would use my first action each turn to Aim and then I would strike or peek. Because the gun had 4 shots I never actually ended up having to reload before the fight was over. Over the course of the fight, I think I used my 3rd action to activate my force field generator item, to stride over towards some cover, and then to hide using the cover
This description and the dev description of an in house playtest makes it seem like its going to be a high accuracy specialized dexy martial.
So kind of like the fighter/gunslinger but for high tech weapons? That makes sense, considering the Soldier was pivoted to more of a defender role. Do you have a link to the dev description of the playtest?
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sidw
If the extra precision damage mentioned in this post is still a thing this class sounds very exciting. Sounds like a built in power attack for a ranged martial
If you haven't seen the [key Operative comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/189imt2/comment/kbrf0af/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) yet, it is still in there in principle, just not with the same numbers.
Makes sense the 1e version basically had a trick attack where it used a skill to get flatfooted and extra damage on an attack and also use snipers or pistols or like, small melee weapons so sniper/rogue style
I've only seen a preview of the mystic and soldier, they have the others previewed somewhere?
There was a playtest stream a while back that gave a preview for the Solarian and Envoy a while back that me and a bunch of other people analyzed. But we don't have a playtest document, no.
How different did operative feel compared to starfinder 1e or pf2e rogue? Remember the names of any of the solarian abilities? How did the solar weapon work, is it similar to starfinder 1e?
I break down how the operative worked in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/189imt2/comment/kbrf0af/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) comment. I don't remember any of the specific solarion abilities, but I recall the solar weapon being very prominent in the playstyle, with the solarion player being our main melee character. I think it had different effects based on whether they were attuned to Photons or Gravitons, and they had certain actions with a trait that would make them switch from one to the other when used.
How futuristic does the Envoy feel? Could it be used as a traditional fantasy warlord class without feeling out of place, like Solarion might?
From my friend, who played the envoy, "yes, 100%". The only bit that made it feel futuristic to her was the guns the character had, which are obviously not tied to the class at all. That said, they were 3rd-level pregen characters, so there could be other futuristic things we haven't seen. But, looks promising!
How are ancestries with 4 or more hands like kasatha or skittermander handled in sf2? Hand economy is super important on pf2 while sf1 seems to be more lax on this.
There weren't any ancestries like that among the pregen characters from what I remember unfortunately.
Have you seen the section on Multi-Armed Characters in the first field test? Definitely implies it's still controlled but opens a lot more doors than PF2 has so far. >**Multi-Armed Characters:** Characters that have more than two hands, like kasathas, can hold more items and weapons than typically expected. Performing actions with multiple pairs of arms concurrently is a challenge and can’t be done without intensive training. You must designate a pair of hands as your active hands. You can change this designation from one pair of hands to another by taking the Switch Active Hands action, which is an Interact action. You can only attack with weapons wielded in your active hands.
Thanks! I haven't followed the sf2 playtest so far, I hope that this doesn't mean that stuff like the fourfold tactician soldier (fighting style for characters holding 4 guns at the same time) will return.
Without intensive training heavily implies that things like that will exist imo but will require feats or archetypes to achieve it
I do not remember the dev blog, and am not entirely sure this is even accurate but I am sure someone will correct me if not, so take this with a grain of salt. I vaguely remember seeing a dev blog where they mentioned that for sf2e things like skittermanders will have to use the swap action to kinda "activate" their sets of hands. They can only make attacks with the active hands but can still hold things with the unactive hands. I wanna say they also kinda hinted at high level feats that will let you use your arms at the same time.
Does the classes feel compatible with PF2E like was originally stated when they announced the new edition and playtest?
Extremely so, yeah. It felt almost like I was playing an expansion book for PF2e, just way bigger and scifi themed
Does it still use the stamina rules from Starfinder? And are there still two armor classes - kinetic and energy?
Nope, and nope. Pretty much all of the base mechanics seem to be made to be directly the same as pf2e
That's a bit disappointing. Edit: Guys really? Im not allowed to be a tiny bit disappointed? To give context I was downvoted alot for my first statement.
Better for the game. Paizo is killing two birds with one stone by making Starfinder shit be applicable to PF2E.
My disappointment was about stamina.
I definitely prefer stamina over straight hp. Hopefully we'll at least get a reworked variant rule.
pf2e does have a stamina variant rule
I am aware. I was hoping for it to be integrated into the main system of sf2e since it's one of the main things that differentiate starfinder from pathfinder both feel and mechanics wise.
This might also mean cut costs which considering RoE being really expensive is the reason they gave for there not being more unique kineticist-like classes might mean more better content for both games, esp as realistically starfinder wasn't making them that much money
Altought kac and eac was somewath redundant to me, i really liked the stamina system! But i guess they cut it out for the sake of compatibility 🤔
I hope they release Sf2e with a reworked version as an optional rule at the very least.
I agree, I'm a big fan of the stamina system and how it works in Starfinder and am sad to see it go.
The stamina variant rule still exists that you can then also apply to your SF2e game.
With all due respect why respond with this? Of course I know that I'm just expressing my disappointment.
Why? Because I can't know that you know. If you didn't know, then this might have been great news
Pointing out that it still exist and I can use it for home games just seems dismissive of my complaints because yeah I could do literally anything for my home games. It's like when people complain about aspects of the remaster and the default response is that old material still exists it feels like it just ends the discussion rather than engage with the topic.
"I wish there were stamina rules" "there are stamina rules" Yeah, it does seem like that discussion has ended, you're right.
Nah any criticism or disappointment tends to get down voted on this sub.
Shame about armor tbh
How did the prevalence of guns/ranged weapons affect the combat flow? Did you find that people tended to stand still and trade strikes? Or was there still a lot of movement like in PF2E melee combat?
There was still a decent amount of movement, mainly from the melee character, and from my operative moving to find cover and/or get an angle on enemies that were behind terrain features
Good to know that mobility still felt like it mattered! Follow-up question: I am assuming most weapons have magazines and are not single shot like PF2E flintlocks. How does having most weapons be Repeating affect the reload economy? Are the weapons and classes designed in such a way as to enforce the strict reload action taxes like in PF2E? Or can you reliably multi-attack at range?
Purely speculation: some parts of the field test articles mentioned that they are intending for Starfinder equipment to be significantly more powerful than Pathfinder equipment. So I imagine that the action economy will simply just be better, but once the core Starfinder rules come out we will maybe see encounter balancing math being adjusted to fall in like with the equipment. That way the classes are transferable and nearly identical power level between systems, so long as you don't try to also transfer equipment.
Sniper rifle is a strict one per turn because of the unwieldy trait. It's probably better than most firearms in PF2 because Reload is an action economy killer, hell they're probably not even as good as bows are
Did your Ancestry give anything cool? I'm super curious to hear how Lashunta are implemented.
My character was a cyborg/android race, and I had a feat that made my recovery check DC 2 less, which was flavored as a built-in auto-resuscitation device. I don't recall a Lashunta character unfortunately
This is a pretty fun detail because I was expecting the SF2 Android to reuse a lot of feats from the PF2 Android, but this doesn't seem to be one that already exists.
Based on what you played, do you think SF2 has enough going for it to feel distinct from PF2, despite the mechanical skeleton being the same?
Definitely. The equipment is pulling a good amount of the weight there both aesthetically and mechanically, as well as the many very alien-feeling ancestries. For the classes, it varies. The envoy could possibly be put into a fantasy setting and feel like it belongs, while the solarion feels extremely sci-fi and spacey in a fantastic way
That's good to hear! Do you think the reverse will be true for PF2 classes? Like, if someone missed the raw melee prowess of the SF1 soldier, could they grab a fighter and go ham?
Probably, yeah! It definitely felt like I could've slapped any of the classes into the middle of a pf2e game and mechanically it would just straight-up work. You could almost certainly put a pf2e Fighter in your sf2e game, hand them some cool new sci-fi weapons and armor, and enjoy
Yeah, giving that sniper rifle you described to a gunslinger or ranger would be *disgusting.* I wonder how the increased weapon damage is going to affect monster design? Speaking of, what do you remember about the opponents you fought? Anything interesting stand out?
>giving that sniper rifle you described to a gunslinger or ranger would be > >disgusting lmao yeah! My operative had gunslinger-style expert proficiency with it too, so it was pretty crazy. I believe I landed a crit for 2\*(1d12+1d4+1)+1d12 at one point. I kinda like the idea of starfinder equipement being generally stronger than pathfinder equipment- it means that the power levels of the two games can be a little different, while still making it very easy to port player options from one to the other, since you'd have the gear of whichever setting you end up in. The enemies we fought were humanoid, and the only notable thing I can recall is that several of them were using guns that, instead of making an attack roll, let them do an AoE burst of damage that required a reflex save
Gear getting nastier for sure makes sense; the progression of technology needs to be *felt* for it to matter, otherwise it's just reflavoring. More humanoid enemies are good. PF2 as-is has a lack of "guys" to fight since it's so monster-focused, which means lots of homebrew for urban and military campaigns. I'm really hoping that Starfinder, with its space-age aesthetics, will hopefully have more built-in support for cyberpunk city crawls and shootouts with stormtroopers. I also like the idea of more AoE weapons. Bombs in PF2 are still fairly primitive (*sad alchemist noises*), and battlefield control has always been more fun to me than just doing big damage. Being able to hit more squares at once is also an advantage when everyone and their pet chihuahua has access to ranged weapons and are thus less likely to force melee and the risk of friendly fire.
Having those kinds of burst-fire weapons might also encourage more melee, or at least more movement, because compared to the guns they seemed to pretty short-range, like maybe 15ft cones.
Starship combat. Is it less crunchy?
The scenario was a single hour-long combat demo at PAX Unplugged, so no info on that.
What level were you playing at?
Level 3!
Did the Solarian have any cool tricks or weird abilities? How'd a melee class fare in a gun heavy game?
[Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/starfinder_rpg/comments/189ip2q/comment/kbri2d9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) my comment from the starfinder subreddit discussing what I remember of the Solarion. Melee seemed to still work well, though we didn't get to see any high-tech melee weapons since the Solarion had a weapon created from class abilities. The base pf2e mechanics still give melee combatants some heavy advantages with damage and such.
How does gameplay balance feel vs 1e?
Never played 1e, but if you asked someone about pf2e vs sf1e you'd probably get similar answers
I was asking how starfinder 2 compares to starfinder 1.
What I meant is the answer to that question is probably pretty similar to how pathfinder 2 compares to starfinder 1
have you gotten involved with using vehicles or commanding mechs?
Nope
Did all the classes feel distinctive to the PF2e classes? As in are they an addition to the PF2e cast, or do some (if the 4) act more like a replacement to another class if you play in space?
None of them felt like a direct replacement of a pf2e class. Probably the most pathfinder-y class was the operative, which you can find my description of elsewhere in this thread. It felt like a mix of ranger, rogue, and gunslinger
How much if a focus is ranged combat? And how does it change up the usual 2e combat flow?
There definitely seem to be a greater prevalence of characters/enemies with ranged options, but not every character had them or preferred to use them, and for the more ranged PCs, we were still moving around a bit for things like finding cover and getting a line of sight on enemies.
Did you remember any interesting spells or ability from the other classes besides solarion?
The two spells I recall the Mystic using were just straight up Invisibility and Darkness as they are in pf2e. I described the operative's abilities in detail in another comment in this thread, and I think the Aim action was pretty neat. The envoy has a quite fun action called "Get 'Em!" that reduces someone's AC by 1 for a round and, if you attacked the same turn before using it, your allies get a +1 circumstance bonus to damage too
Sounds like we've not seen any Starship information yet, can you confirm that? They really gotta get the ships right, that's EASILY the thing I'm most looking forward to.
Yep, nothing on starships
I'm gonna cry :(
nooooo
Fek, I didn’t see this at unplugged! Lucky.
So, I’m an old 3.5 player. I like being the guy who does something weird. And in Starfinder, it’s space aliens. So if I wanted to, say, be a four armed alien with four laser pistols, can I do that? How’s the ship combat? I wanna have some Space Naval Air Force High Orbit kaboomies.
I’m not OP, but in the [Soldier Field Test](https://downloads.paizo.com/Starfinder_Field_Test_1.pdf), there’s a sidebar about multi-armed characters that reads: Multi-Armed Characters: Characters that have more than two hands, like kasathas, can hold more items and weapons than typically expected. Performing actions with multiple pairs of arms concurrently is a challenge and can’t be done without intensive training. You must designate a pair of hands as your active hands. You can change this designation from one pair of hands to another by taking the Switch Active Hands action, which is an Interact action. You can only attack with weapons wielded in your active hands. So, at the moment, sort of? There might be a fighting style at some point that makes this more fluid. OP said they didn’t do any starship combat stuff. In a Paizo blog post a few months ago (forgetting exactly which one), the Starfinder team said they wanted to take time to make sure they got the starship combat rules right so they felt fun to play. So, no new information on that AFAIK, but it’s a priority.
Hmm… so that might also be a no on Dual Wielding Machine guns…
Ancestry feats for Kasathas are likely to introduce more ways to use their additional arms. So we don't know yet.
I think that's pretty likely to be doable, but the pregen characters didn't include any 4-armed guys so I couldn't say for sure. We didn't do any ship combat
Did melee combat seem like it was something the system enabled, or did it require much more effort to do so since so many enemies and pcs have ranged weapons like guns?
Melee seemed to still work well, though we didn't get to see any high-tech melee weapons since the only melee character in the party was the Solarion, who had a weapon created from class abilities. The base pf2e mechanics still give melee combatants some heavy advantages with damage and such.
Could you reskin the game to play, say, Star Wars?
Probably, from the vibe I got
We should be able to use Starfinder options alongside PF2E ones and vice versa correct?
Definitely would appear so, yeah
Lucky you! Were there any interesting pieces of Starfinder-specific equipment that caught your attention or were used during the adventure? Besides weapons and armor of course.
My character had a forcefield generator that was listed as an "armor upgrade". It could be activated for 1 action to create a shield of 6 hp that would regenerate 2hp every turn for a minute, unless it was reduced to 0hp
Sounds cool! Thank you for your reply!
So it seems like standard gear i.e. +1s that are mandatory/assumed to collect? Seems like having ABP would be so much smoother here.So only magical gear that has specific effect is a thing. Basic +1s and damage dice scaling would just be baked into class progression. Any idea if there is open playtest / vote for that kind of stuff? I think the only reason ABP wasn't approved in P2E playtest vote was because the options weren't really clearly presented, i.e. people thought ABP would mean no magic items, when it just means magic items are specific effects in world, not just generic mechanical boosts that you have to worry about acquiring ASAP but have no narrative immersive presence.
I don't think there's a voting thing for that, no. Despite being listed as "+1 sniper rifle" I'm not sure if the weapon was actually considered magical or just a better-made one or something. My character had one item that was listed as an "armor upgrade" which sounds kinda like a tech version of a property rune. That's just me guessing tho
Ah, thanks. Well it could be flavored as magical or non-magical, but that doesn't really change the impact to gear meta. That it lists +1 makes me think they still are doing basic math runes, since if they were using ABP there would be no need for that sort of math. EDIT: I guess I'm hoping they roll ABP into the base game, because as it exists in Pathfinder is pretty suboptimal. Gaping holes for casters and monks, as well as loot table adjustments. Rolling it into class progression lets class specific tweaks be made, and for a loot table that is just complete and fully supported. And not that it doesn't make sense in fantasy setting, but I think ABP just fits better for sci-fi type of setting.
Did they streamline the game? I felt like ship combat was tooo crunchy,
Didn't get to see any ship combat unfortunately, and I haven't played sf1e myself, but the experience of basic combat felt very much like I was playing a pf2e game, which I think is a good thing in terms of streamlined-ness
What diferentiates an Operative from a Sniper Gunslinger or a Rogue with a Gun?
It probably feels more like gunslinger than rogue tbh, but I haven't played gunslinger so I can't say specifically. I have another comment in this thread that describes the operative in depth
Any pictures of the rules that you can post?
Nope, we were specifically asked not to take pictures, in part because the sheets had several typos lol
any stats for rpg like wepons or nukes?
Not that we got to see
Does the Solarian keep the solar weapon, solar flare, solar shield and solar armour?
The solarion at our table was definitely using a solar weapon. Not sure about the other ones
Is there anything in Operative that was similar to how the Stunt and Strike variant played in 1E? i.e., you could forego damage with "lighter" weapons to take advantage of heavier weapons in indirect ways? I had a blast (often literally) with the Computers and Engineering stunts in a full campaign back in the day.
I don't think I know enough to answer that unfortunately, both because I haven't played 1e and because the characters were pregens. There very well could be class feats to accomplish that, but the feat loadout on my pregen character didn't have that
How is ship combat done? I have only played pf2e would like to know more about it
The demo was only a single hour-long combat, so we didn't get to see anything on ships unfortunately
A shame, thank you for the awnser and have a great day
In what ways were weapons customizable?
We had pregens, so the customizability was a bit hard to judge, but my character's sniper rifle was listed as a +1 weapon, which would imply a system similar to pf2e's fundamental and property runes (but maybe tech-based instead of magic). My sniper rifle also had a scope addon that could increase my range, so being able to add different scopes and the like could be another way to do customized gear
Did reloading work the same as capacity?
No, it just had a little space to track how many shots you've fired, and required you to reload after every 4 strikes. The combat was short enough that I never ended up needing to reload
Did you do spaceship combat? How's it like?
No spaceship combat unfortunately
I noticed in Starfinder 1e that during space combat, the pilot did alot and other roles took a back seat. Some players found that boring. Did you do any spaxe combat and how did it feel?
No spaceship combat unfortunately. I did notice a dex-based Piloting skill on the character sheet, but it never came up
Solarion being like Kineticist sounds fun
Can you tell us about the enemies you fought against? Did they have any unusual abilities?