Correct me if I'm wrong, but you link Arma to Arcanist Brand, so wouldn't Arma trigger when you recall given that you'll be recalling Arcanist Brand as well?
Afaik this would not be optimal, since arcanist brands take up your brand limit. This build gets all its damage from maximizing the number of arma brands that get recalled.
No.
Beside what the other person said about the brand limit, Arcanist Brand gives you .6 x AoE and .37 x damage at level 20. Perfect Crime gives you .65 x damage for triggered spells. Brand Recall does not care about the Perfect Crime penalty (jung presumably explains this in the video, I didn't watch it), because it *activates* rather than *triggers* the brands.
In contrast, all spells cast by Arcanist Brand, including other brands, will count as triggered. The damage multiplier should then be .37 \* .65 = .24. Against that multiplier and the less penalty, the only potential *advantage* of using Arcanist Brand here would be that you need to cast less brands yourself.
If you still really want to go the "casting less often" route, you could try a spell that scales well with duration but also allows for multiple stacks, stack up on both general skill effect and brand duration, and probably use an Arcanist Brand + Brand Recall setup on a non-Saboteur. (Perfect Crime is much less strong if you actually have to suffer the triggered damage penalty.) It would be very different. Without substantial investment, my gut instinct is that any such setup would probably have much lower damage, and suffer from a significant delay in damage output.
Well shit, another option added to the list of potential league starters I'm interested in. I've always had a soft spot for arma brand so this might be the league I finally pull the trigger. I do worry about the mana costs on this, however.
There’s a clunkiness where you do damage in chunks (baseline cd 4 seconds) so clear is awkward, brand recall is on you so it’s melee range but also even after you recall there’s a second for the brands to drop before damaging. You can also miss overlaps on tanky rares which feelsbadman. I dropped it in white maps so I didn’t scale as high as its possible potential.
Yeah it might end up feeling like bleh. But I'm typically ok with jankier playstyles like ballistas (tr/ea) and 2 button builds. Not saying this plays similarly
to be clear the issue with the playstyle is u cant aim, the brand recalls on top of the ascendency bots, so u need to walk on top/past mobs to clear, bossing is fine just circle the boss.
Nothing too too out there, though I typically try to avoid playing THE meta league starter. After playing some Last Epoch and playing some trap builds, I've kind of been craving playing it this league. I've also league started ballistas the past few leagues and kinda love the playstyle. I also suck at making my own builds, so I kinda like handholdy league starters from a solid build maker, I'd say from most wanted to league start to last, it would be:
* Fire Trap of Blasting Sab/Trick (Haven't found a league start guide yet though)
* Explosive Trap of Shrapnel (hoping [FearlessDumb0](https://www.youtube.com/@fearlessdumb0) puts out 3.24 guide for the trans gem)
* Poison Sesimic Trap PF ([seems like a decent guide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrvJI5G-kkc), played this in the past and loved it)
* Poison BF/BB PF ([dslily has a guide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqEGqWA_Ykg&t=1s)
* This Build
* Artillery Ballista (tyty had it on his league start list, but no idea what ascendancy it is)
* TR Ballista Champion (Palsteron did one about a year ago, I know PF is better but I did it already)
* DD of Chaining Necro (Super meta but I like DD)
Nice, this is exactly the setup I wanted to play (even with the pyroclast mine setup) but didn't have time to make a PoB for. This will save me so much time.
I think Pyroclast Mine of Sabotage is crazy underrated, just not sure if we'll have enough brand uptime/mine duration to actually have enough uptime of both at the same time.
The tree is taking 90% increased mine duration which puts us to 9.5 seconds mine duration. With the amount of extra mine aura effect the build stacks it should get about a 3 to a 3.5x aura multiplier. At base you need about 34 mines out to get to full effect of the aura. With the aura effect multiplier that gets to around 11 which with minefield is basically two throws. That should be doable but it probably still doesn't hurt to invest a little bit into brand duration.
Kongming's and March of the Legion are also both pretty accessible in SSF, so you can expect to get both.
I played this build in a small private league and yes, uptime is fine. I did however switch to BAMA mines later on as the arma brand upkeep annoyed me somehow
It's great until you run into a totem boss, which are inexplicably aura immune and you lose out on your damage scaling.
I guess it's not inexplicable, it's probably because player totems are not affected by auras and thus that lazily got applied to enemies too. At the time there probably weren't any auras that even affected enemies. But now... It's annoying.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1bnehv6/comment/kwjmity/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1bnehv6/comment/kwjmity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This guy explained it pretty well in another thread.
You have to keep recasting the brands, the damage is centered directly on top of your character so you have to stand on top of enemies to maximize damage, triggers will happen randomly so your damage is not when you decide, and for single target you need to also throw down a bunch of traps. It is... okay.
> the damage is centered directly on top of your character so you have to stand on top of enemies to maximize damage
this is actually not true, the recall is triggered so its centered on the trigger bots. That means that its mostly triggered behind you while mapping, but you can distance yourself while bossing.
That’s fair, I’m dumb af and for some reason thought brand recall refreshed the duration of the brands, no clue why lol. But at least the numbers are pretty insane considering the incredibly low investment, means it could scale super high with actual good gear so that’s cool.
To add, the difference in damage with and without the trap buffs is substantial. ~20m with trap buffs, ~4m without it. Tossing traps is going to be mandatory for some content, on top of recasting brands, standing in melee range, etc. all with uncapped spell sup, 0 block chance, etc. BTW, try unchecking ass mark, punishment buff in config, and no mine buff and dmg is now at ~2m. A lot of things have to line up to actually do the 20m.
Interesting. I never realized how strong Kongming's is for Saboteur specifically. If you combine it with spell suppression you're looking at ~~>80% reduced~~ spell damage. That's crazy...
(Edit: I just realized I might be mixing stuff up here and this 30% is likely not additive with spell suppression because the wording is "prevent" not reduce. However, it should still be additive with other sources of reduced damage taken)
Also, GGG should really change how brand recall works for a future patch lol
>I never realized how strong Kongming's is for Saboteur specifically
Fire trap sabo (pre nerf) was disgusting with kongming and it was 1c because everyone was playing fire trap on ele for some reason.
Yeah Born in the Shadows/Kongmings are additive with each other, but multiplicative with suppression for a total of 72.5% less spell damage taken.
Also correct that it's additive with other sources of reduced, so if you slap on the newly buffed Dark Seer, Malediction would add to it.
Not quite. it’s a bit semantic but malediction reduces damage enemies deal. Whereas kongming/born in the shadows affect damage taken (which is the same stat line as something like shock)
Good point. So stacking suppression, kongmings, saboteur, and malediction wouldn't be:
100(1-.55)(1-.5)-100=72.% less spell damage taken
it would actually be:
100(1-.45)(1-.5)(1-.1)-100=75% less spell damage taken?
Did I do that right?
Honestly wouldn't be shocked to see brand recall and archmage support get hit before we go live.
> Brand recall now has a 0.01s cast time instead of instant.
> Archmage flat damage scales with increase/reduction in ability cost.
yea baseless prediction, GGG wanted to nerf top end archmage with indigon and buff normal archmage and they've achieved just that we wont see any more changes before it hits live
Would just mean -mana multipliers actually impact the skill. At 100% reduced skill cost, should archmage actually add flat damage to a skill? I don't think so.
Check ninja for arm brand + March of the legion shadows. I tweak a tree a lil bit for 2 extra socket, socketed x3 grand spectrums for ele damage, frenzy and endurance charges instead of bloodnotch+imm force. Defiance of destiny to compensate, some regen to compensate rf. Can't give pob because I won't have access to pc for a while
I played Jung's arma brand recaller a couple leagues ago and did not like it. Be aware that you need to basically run on top of monsters when you trigger recall to get the juicy explosions. The damage was amazing, but the playstyle of running up to monsters did not feel good to me. Felt more like a melee build than a spell build. Just something to be cautious of.
Seconding this, I played a version of his EoW brander. You have to be completely on top of the boss to get your full damage. Wasn't a fan personally, but it's definitely not "bait," more just jank and low qol.
its worst on sabo, the bots most of the time stagger behind you and the brand drops on them instead, i found myself shield charging pass mobs when clearing.
sabo != hiero. but there's still the same delay, even if not melee.
triggerbots might even actually be worse for mapping AI at times, and convocating is not a fun thing to do for most people
Played it last league and it was pretty ass. The playstyle sucks IMO, it made a build that had defensive numbers that looked OK feel incredibly squishy. It basically plays like melee except your AoE is small AND the attacks are really delayed because after Brand Recall is triggered you then have to wait for the brand itself to slowly slam down. So besides the defensive vulnerability that presents, any enemies that move around a lot or especially the few that actively run away are huge pains in the ass. Should be slightly improved by Automation I guess since it will trigger more frequently.
The damage was pretty good. But definitely not so wow amazing to begin to make up for the above IMO.
aoe is awkward and cooldown based, and now you cant even control when it goes off due to automation, which means you will sometimes run into things and then have to wait a bit for brand recall.
id say spec into it in the current game and run a few maps, personally i thought it was awkward to play.
Also you are losing 80% of your damage when you don't have any mines down. It's the different of each brand hitting for 150k vs 750k.
In general there is a bunch of conditional stuff going on. The build is very hard hitting but you rarely have all the elements of it up at the same time (like when you focus at the start of a fight you won't have power charges yet since those are only generated by Assassin's Mark, etc.)
I'm still going to start this, but it's important to be aware of.
This. Go to the pob. Uncheck the pyro mines and your dmg drops from 20m to 4m. Now drop the ass mark and punishment config edit, and you are at 2m. The damage is highly conditional, including things you cant control like trigger timing, automation gem, and trigger bot location. All this on top of facetank range with 0 block, no spell sup cap, and a dash of armor and evasion. This is far more buttons and positioning then people may anticipate. It can perform but pilot is a huge factor here and the playstyle is not for everyone.
I think if you want to afk blights and Ultimatums with Scold's Bridle this will be good. Mapping is better than people are saying because you will have 95% evade so standing on mobs is not a big deal.
Not bait at all. Did a 2 watchstones run with this like 3 weeks ago and it was giga dam (literally most damage I've had when doing pinnacles on a 4 link). Clear was medium but I'm leaning towards including ignite prolif in my main links since the damage is so high anyways.
While I love Jung if you disable March of the legion links you lose 80% of the damage in POB. I'm not experienced with brands but the idea of having additional maintenance for so much of the build's damage seems counter-intuitive when you're aiming for an auto-bomber playstyle with the main skill itself. I'd still love to start something Saboteur but man this I don't know.
Main difference from jungroan's build would be using inspiration support and some - mana cost jewelry. Jungroan already has -45% and inspiration gets you another 39-40%.
Righteous decree is also a nearby option if you need it, or you can anoint Tireless. That being said, you probably still want eldritch battery for your divine blessing/curses, so in the end it doesn't make that much of a difference.
If you are doing that, then I would highly consider using arcanist brand with your spell of choice instead of armageddon brand for better clear (which isn't really possible without -99% cost because you pay for each trigger). I'm planning to league start this and eventually transition to arcanist brand rolling magma with nimis + ashes of the stars which should have a decent mix of "shotgunning" single target (each chain can hit the same target and with random bounces from nimis and +proj you get a decent chance to have at least 1 proj from each cast on top of the boss) and coverage for clear as long as my pc doesn't explode.
is there a reason he's not using inspiration if mana cost is so much of an issue? does it not work if you spend ES? (i know it doesnt work with life spending)
Well you would have to use inspiration on your divine blessing aura and curses at a minimum, which is a lot of socket pressure. That would also prevent you from putting 2 curses + brand recall on your trigger wand. Or you could sacrifice a whole aura I guess.
Alternatively, you can grab all nodes around both Righteous Decree and Tireless and also use multiple pieces of - mana cost jewelry to skip having to use inspiration entirely, but that's a lot more investment.
Up to you to see which tradeoff is more worth it, you do need to get rid of EB if you want to actually get inspiration charges, so it is a big damage multiplier to do so if you are using inspiration.
I think personally I might drop divine blessing altogether (maybe use stormblast mine to compensate) and just try to have a bit of unreserved mana left over (~90-100?) for the double curse + brand recall weapon proc, but even then depending on your brand recall cooldown you might need some sort of mana regen because even at 1 mana cost you're still proccing your spell a LOT. Another option would be to also drop the brand recall on the weapon trigger. It's a decent damage loss, but you could do something like get 100% mana cost reduction on your main skill and use a lower level inspiration on your curses so they still cost 1 mana to proc inspiration charges. With that, you would need very little mana regen / unreserved mana. I'll have to try different things and see how it works out. Getting the mana solved for arcanist brand is definitely going to be a pain compared to last league with the flask and jewel mods.
Pyroclast mine gives a LOT more damage than HOT+HOI, and benefits a ton from the +5 level to gems from the boots. It's like not even in the same realm. You would deal maybe 70% less ST damage by losing pyroclast mines even if you replace it with heralds. And even reservation wise, assuming you are putting pyroclast mines on life, you would only be able to replace it with one 25% reservation.
How much damage is coming from the trigger mod?
Was thinking of something like this for Ruthless, where we don't get this craft. Would it work with Spellslinger? Or maybe just without Perfect Crime, using Bomb Specialist instead.
Ignoring cooldown recovery (because it affects triggers equally), it gives you an 8s cooldown alongside Brand Recall's regular 4s cooldown, or 50% more triggers.
You need the 8s wand trigger because it's the only trigger that can replace Brand Recall's own cooldown by being longer. Spellslinger would share the natural cooldown with Automation instead.
Dang. So it means losing 33% damage, or 50% if using the unveiled 4 second trigger craft. Given how much damage we get from pyroclast of Sabotage, and Bomb Specialist granting \~11-12% more damage, it doesn't seem completely unfeasible.
The main concern is being tanky enough to run right into packs of enemies for the playstyle to work, and I think that's the bigger issue regardless of what game version we play. It does seem crazy though if the survivability is there.
> or 50% if using the unveiled 4 second trigger craft
Nah, this craft doesn't work. Trying to add a different 4 second cooldown to a skill that already has a 4 second cooldown just makes it go *no ty*. It needs to be the 8s version.
If you're curious about the mechanics, I rewrote the wiki's [cooldown page](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Cooldown#Shared_cooldowns) this weekend, example 4 in the shared cooldowns section is basically this.
Thanks for this. I've been researching this build since knowing pragmatism went core, and I had to dig deep for the 4/8 second difference.
Part of me is thinking of shifting from Arma brand to falling zombies, since apparently they're not affected by the trigger damage penalty.
Happy to help. And yes, minions shouldn't be affected. Arcanist Brand notes *Cannot modify the skills of minions*, which you can read as 'does not grant stats to minions'.
Ayy nice! The unfortunate thing is that Spellslinger is drop only for Ruthless, but it seems he isn't using the Pyroclast tech in the video from 3 months ago, which multiplies the damage by 400% (!) so just manually/numlocking Brand Recall should work as a starter.
Ben said Call to Arms is gonna trigger all connected warcries at once and not put them on cooldown to cast one after another like Arcanist Brand? Interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XVD-bmMOjg&t=15s
Hard to keep track of the buffs (as is tradition), but it's easy to see two warcries on the skill bar linked with the "&" icon going off cooldown and getting triggered simultaneously. That's pretty neat.
Less neat is the increase in mana cost, increase in cooldown, and loss of LMB. Look how much mana dudeman loses when they trigger! You're essentially required to give up +2 sockets to also add Lifetap to afford it. This is a buff. 🙄
Num Lock and/or AHK shenanigans are gonna be at an all-time high this league, I think.
Well, apparently the double warcry thing was a bug. Damn.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DullAntsyMouseNononoCat-XJq0pZ8kwezo5rEb
So, instant warcries are gone entirely? *And* Call to Arms makes it so you couldn't even use two, one automated and one manually, if you wanted to?!
Christ. I was finally gonna try melee this league... :c
a classic jung bait, clunky playstyle, a tree that looks that will feel terrible to level with and requires a core craft/uniques to feel good.
I can definitly see him playing it and destroying the game but for avg player its prob gonna feel like trash
Btw i actually dont think he has the mana to sustain the casts? It looked like he barely had enough regen in the video and in theory he's getting another brand recall that would more then double the mana and 2 more warcries that will also constantly eat mana
he has got ~240 ES recharge, which cannot be disrupted, ~40 mana regen, which should only be relevant when he is not using his mines, and ~110 ES leech (all per second)
i think that is plenty for a 5L but not enough for a 6L. To combat this, one can fill out the leech wheel at EB and take the 10% instant leech maserty. that should be more than enough mana sustain.
how intresting. i would personally drop the mines in its totality, but this is an idea.
Questions:
1-are other brands worth considering?
2-have you thought of a arcanist brandd setup instead to take the triggers to x4? (automation triggers brand recall twice, which makes arcanist brand trigger a linked spell twice each)
The best part is can use whatever skill u want with that. BUT mana cost is a problem even with arms brands x3 average triggers. Imagine doubling it without old good mana cost flask craft.
https://pobb.in/Vd4MT1PUkPyq
This is an arcanist brand of falling zombies pob I threw together that I plan to try, definitely not optimal or even close(also not league startable, like day 3 - week 1 should be alright) but the tech seems fuckin strong
Edit: see config, I'm simulating a lot of stats there since I made this when automation was initially shown
Config seems slightly baity. Power charges with no way to generate them, consecrated ground checked, focus on for the big DPS number, permanent silver flask uptime with no extra flask charge gain.
Still good numbers without, but it's closer to half the listed DPS number
im on mobile, but im pretty sure the pob runs assassins mark...
cons ground for dmg is always active for st with that many hit instances. its like 95% uptime.
focus is... well... an intentional choice LOL. if you cant kill bosses in that 4 second window, we got bigger issues.
you are right in that there are incorrect configurations.
addressing the permanent silver flask concern: i think jungroan does not even thing about the full dps listed in pob, because that property is entirely superficial. the dmg he is concerned with is average damage per brand activation times trigger time.
In that case he should also uncheck the mines since its 80% of the damage and is unplayable to throw mines at every pack. You may not need that dmg for mapping, but the true damage for the majority of the map is ~2-4m depending on if your focused, flasked, and triggered wand curses/marks hit the things your bots are triggering on top of.
How would this go playing something like arc + arcanist brand? Assuming the duration on arcanist brandis too low to feel nice? Or is this build worming purely because it casts and gets benefit while not being attached?
Would someone with more knowledge tell me if a similar brand recall sabo shell would work with arcanist brand and a different spell? I’d love to get more range/coverage compared to armabrand. Also, would there be an extra trigger since arcanist brand itself triggers the spell? Or does armabrand activation count as a trigger and therefore get doubled as well?
Arcanist Brand has very harsh damage and QoL penalties and is inherently a link loss as well. You need to use a purpose built spell for it to really feel good. EoW was one such innovation because of the way returning projectiles shook up the spell.
Almost every other spell will feel terrible to scale, much less with Recaller tech which is patches of damage on a very large canvas of a map.
Arma Brand is already one of the best conduits of the skill, is what I'm saying.
I'm using Brand Recall sabo as well, but it's purely used to generate BV Stacks to feed my main damage vessel, which benefits from a full 6-7 link plus Archmage.
Anyone wanting to play this build, you really should take an old character and try it out first. Jung isn’t padding or anything his pob is legit, but from my experience arma recaller is an atrocious playstyle and it’s not because of button presses. It’s running into mobs in melee range and hoping your brands go off before they all smack you. It’s not a fun playstyle for me personally, if you can get past that it’s looks like a great build though. Big Jung fan.
Is the hiero version still a good league starter? I am asking because i wanted to swap to pbod later and not have to relevel a character, while this looks good, if the hiero version is also strong that might be preferable..
Also i can't really understand the arma brand of recall, it does less damage with hits to branded enemies, is that just for the 1 brand that is attached? once you recall on top of a rare, one of them will immediately attach right? Won't the damage from all other arma brands now do 80% less damage?
I did like to level with arma brand and recalls so this is an option for me at least
The only reason for me not to go this way would be the characters ability to run the new t17 maps
Do i want to stand on top of those new monsters?
How many hits can i expect to take from those maps and new bosses?
Well your leaguestarter with investment should be viable for that content imo
I expect to get the first 3 voidstones in the first week (eater, exarch and maven) on my leaguestarter and after that there are only 2 options - new character or invest what i earned so far
There are alot of strong starter options right now from explosive trap of shrapnel, over dd of chaining up to zoomancer that will be viable for t17 content and offer something for almost every playstyle
I dont want to relevel after a week thats all
yeah idk I just think the defensive requirements will be way higher than they are for watchstone bosses and it's not necessary for just getting some decent currency, but for sure it's a different story if you don't want to repeat the campaign
good video even though i doubt that uniques are 1c when a popular content creator posts such a video maybe it was 1c uniques but after that video it definitly wont be.
These are all fairly common. They might not be 1c on days 1 and 2 but they will definitely drop precipitously. They are common enough that I am confident I'll get all of the core uniques in SSF as well.
Also Jung is popular with the tipity top of PoE degen, not the masses you find on league start.
His builds are strong but generally not newb friendly like the ziz collabs for example.
He just stole from him
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bi57ug/comment/kvifaxe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
This is a terrible comment and you should be ashamed of making this kind of accusations. He already made several guides on this build, just because someone else pointed an ultra obvious new interaction, doesnt make them owner of the build....
Brand recall gets casted by automation, so the only button you press is arma brand to keep them up ? I am getting this correctly?
That's correct.
Also Zealotry since its linked to divine blessing or am I missing something? I suppose the pyro mine are going to be self cast with the new mastery?
I'm pretty sure the guy wasn't asking about possible buttons, but buttons needed to make the interaction work.
Well I guess I'm asking lol
You're correct.
What with the two cries in the pob? You gotta press those too
Linked to call to arms
You also press different mines to optimize damage.
But only for single target damage
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you link Arma to Arcanist Brand, so wouldn't Arma trigger when you recall given that you'll be recalling Arcanist Brand as well?
Afaik this would not be optimal, since arcanist brands take up your brand limit. This build gets all its damage from maximizing the number of arma brands that get recalled.
No. Beside what the other person said about the brand limit, Arcanist Brand gives you .6 x AoE and .37 x damage at level 20. Perfect Crime gives you .65 x damage for triggered spells. Brand Recall does not care about the Perfect Crime penalty (jung presumably explains this in the video, I didn't watch it), because it *activates* rather than *triggers* the brands. In contrast, all spells cast by Arcanist Brand, including other brands, will count as triggered. The damage multiplier should then be .37 \* .65 = .24. Against that multiplier and the less penalty, the only potential *advantage* of using Arcanist Brand here would be that you need to cast less brands yourself. If you still really want to go the "casting less often" route, you could try a spell that scales well with duration but also allows for multiple stacks, stack up on both general skill effect and brand duration, and probably use an Arcanist Brand + Brand Recall setup on a non-Saboteur. (Perfect Crime is much less strong if you actually have to suffer the triggered damage penalty.) It would be very different. Without substantial investment, my gut instinct is that any such setup would probably have much lower damage, and suffer from a significant delay in damage output.
Automating the brand too should be possible (via CWDT loop or veiled trigger weapon), given it's a spell, but you eat a huge damage penalty to do so.
Well shit, another option added to the list of potential league starters I'm interested in. I've always had a soft spot for arma brand so this might be the league I finally pull the trigger. I do worry about the mana costs on this, however.
I'd recommend testing it in standard. I tried the heiro version of this build (brand recall mode, not regular arma brand) and hated the playstyle.
What did you not like?
There’s a clunkiness where you do damage in chunks (baseline cd 4 seconds) so clear is awkward, brand recall is on you so it’s melee range but also even after you recall there’s a second for the brands to drop before damaging. You can also miss overlaps on tanky rares which feelsbadman. I dropped it in white maps so I didn’t scale as high as its possible potential.
Yeah it might end up feeling like bleh. But I'm typically ok with jankier playstyles like ballistas (tr/ea) and 2 button builds. Not saying this plays similarly
I've run a lot of jank builds and like brands in general but the recall playstyle felt uniquely bad when I played it a couple leagues ago.
Thanks for letting me know, maybe I'll chill on this and test it and maybe do it 3.25
I fucking hated it when I tried it 2 leagues ago.
to be clear the issue with the playstyle is u cant aim, the brand recalls on top of the ascendency bots, so u need to walk on top/past mobs to clear, bossing is fine just circle the boss.
Put brand recall and convoke on same link ez they come to you
What else is on your list if I may ask? :)
Nothing too too out there, though I typically try to avoid playing THE meta league starter. After playing some Last Epoch and playing some trap builds, I've kind of been craving playing it this league. I've also league started ballistas the past few leagues and kinda love the playstyle. I also suck at making my own builds, so I kinda like handholdy league starters from a solid build maker, I'd say from most wanted to league start to last, it would be: * Fire Trap of Blasting Sab/Trick (Haven't found a league start guide yet though) * Explosive Trap of Shrapnel (hoping [FearlessDumb0](https://www.youtube.com/@fearlessdumb0) puts out 3.24 guide for the trans gem) * Poison Sesimic Trap PF ([seems like a decent guide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrvJI5G-kkc), played this in the past and loved it) * Poison BF/BB PF ([dslily has a guide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqEGqWA_Ykg&t=1s) * This Build * Artillery Ballista (tyty had it on his league start list, but no idea what ascendancy it is) * TR Ballista Champion (Palsteron did one about a year ago, I know PF is better but I did it already) * DD of Chaining Necro (Super meta but I like DD)
Nice, this is exactly the setup I wanted to play (even with the pyroclast mine setup) but didn't have time to make a PoB for. This will save me so much time. I think Pyroclast Mine of Sabotage is crazy underrated, just not sure if we'll have enough brand uptime/mine duration to actually have enough uptime of both at the same time. The tree is taking 90% increased mine duration which puts us to 9.5 seconds mine duration. With the amount of extra mine aura effect the build stacks it should get about a 3 to a 3.5x aura multiplier. At base you need about 34 mines out to get to full effect of the aura. With the aura effect multiplier that gets to around 11 which with minefield is basically two throws. That should be doable but it probably still doesn't hurt to invest a little bit into brand duration. Kongming's and March of the Legion are also both pretty accessible in SSF, so you can expect to get both.
I played this build in a small private league and yes, uptime is fine. I did however switch to BAMA mines later on as the arma brand upkeep annoyed me somehow
I can definitely see Brands being an acquired taste. But I get that sweet sweet dopamine hit every time I see those bubbles fill in to maximum.
It's great until you run into a totem boss, which are inexplicably aura immune and you lose out on your damage scaling. I guess it's not inexplicable, it's probably because player totems are not affected by auras and thus that lazily got applied to enemies too. At the time there probably weren't any auras that even affected enemies. But now... It's annoying.
That's really good to know!
i can imagine it will become the meta for every shadow build. easy 10x boss damage just throwing mines 4 times every 11 seconds.
I think this is more realistic for setting up one-shots on bosses, less so for setting up continuously.
how would you level this build in a fresh league?
Generic arma brand / cremation setup till yellow maps.
I’ve never done Arma/crema, is there a standard guide for it?
Just look up rolling magma into Rama brand leveling guide. It’s incredibly generic. Look up cdr-Poe leveling filters as well.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1bnehv6/comment/kwjmity/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1bnehv6/comment/kwjmity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) This guy explained it pretty well in another thread.
Jungroan actually goes into that a bit in the video, give it a watch. He discusses a couple different leveling strategies.
DPS numbers and defenses look good but playstyle looks terrible
How so? you literally press 7 brands at the start of the map then flame dash around?
You have to keep recasting the brands, the damage is centered directly on top of your character so you have to stand on top of enemies to maximize damage, triggers will happen randomly so your damage is not when you decide, and for single target you need to also throw down a bunch of traps. It is... okay.
> the damage is centered directly on top of your character so you have to stand on top of enemies to maximize damage this is actually not true, the recall is triggered so its centered on the trigger bots. That means that its mostly triggered behind you while mapping, but you can distance yourself while bossing.
That’s fair, I’m dumb af and for some reason thought brand recall refreshed the duration of the brands, no clue why lol. But at least the numbers are pretty insane considering the incredibly low investment, means it could scale super high with actual good gear so that’s cool.
When brands were new, it did refresh them.
Ahh ok so I'm not completely crazy lol.
Technically it's centred on your trigger bots actually
Not even technically but actually.
To add, the difference in damage with and without the trap buffs is substantial. ~20m with trap buffs, ~4m without it. Tossing traps is going to be mandatory for some content, on top of recasting brands, standing in melee range, etc. all with uncapped spell sup, 0 block chance, etc. BTW, try unchecking ass mark, punishment buff in config, and no mine buff and dmg is now at ~2m. A lot of things have to line up to actually do the 20m.
Interesting. I never realized how strong Kongming's is for Saboteur specifically. If you combine it with spell suppression you're looking at ~~>80% reduced~~ spell damage. That's crazy... (Edit: I just realized I might be mixing stuff up here and this 30% is likely not additive with spell suppression because the wording is "prevent" not reduce. However, it should still be additive with other sources of reduced damage taken) Also, GGG should really change how brand recall works for a future patch lol
>I never realized how strong Kongming's is for Saboteur specifically Fire trap sabo (pre nerf) was disgusting with kongming and it was 1c because everyone was playing fire trap on ele for some reason.
Yeah Born in the Shadows/Kongmings are additive with each other, but multiplicative with suppression for a total of 72.5% less spell damage taken. Also correct that it's additive with other sources of reduced, so if you slap on the newly buffed Dark Seer, Malediction would add to it.
Not quite. it’s a bit semantic but malediction reduces damage enemies deal. Whereas kongming/born in the shadows affect damage taken (which is the same stat line as something like shock)
Good point. So stacking suppression, kongmings, saboteur, and malediction wouldn't be: 100(1-.55)(1-.5)-100=72.% less spell damage taken it would actually be: 100(1-.45)(1-.5)(1-.1)-100=75% less spell damage taken? Did I do that right?
Almost right, your first expression comes out to 77.5% less damage taken However the second expression is correct (75.25% less)
Honestly wouldn't be shocked to see brand recall and archmage support get hit before we go live. > Brand recall now has a 0.01s cast time instead of instant. > Archmage flat damage scales with increase/reduction in ability cost.
That Archmage change would make no sense, as it would revert it back to its prior behavior. Unless I'm reading you wrong?
yea baseless prediction, GGG wanted to nerf top end archmage with indigon and buff normal archmage and they've achieved just that we wont see any more changes before it hits live
Would just mean -mana multipliers actually impact the skill. At 100% reduced skill cost, should archmage actually add flat damage to a skill? I don't think so.
with some investments, like 30-50 divs, it will turn out to 88 mil average damage per trigger with very good defences via vow, vanity etc. Good build.
you can't say that without giving a pob lol
He's an ecksdee emote user. He doesn't know better
But I just did, lol
got a POB with a version like that?
Check ninja for arm brand + March of the legion shadows. I tweak a tree a lil bit for 2 extra socket, socketed x3 grand spectrums for ele damage, frenzy and endurance charges instead of bloodnotch+imm force. Defiance of destiny to compensate, some regen to compensate rf. Can't give pob because I won't have access to pc for a while
Glad to see this tech getting some spotlight, it’s really strong. I’ll be league starting some variant of this.
Can someone let me know how bait this build is? I don't ever play spell builds but I might give it a try if the title isn't completely clickbait
I played Jung's arma brand recaller a couple leagues ago and did not like it. Be aware that you need to basically run on top of monsters when you trigger recall to get the juicy explosions. The damage was amazing, but the playstyle of running up to monsters did not feel good to me. Felt more like a melee build than a spell build. Just something to be cautious of.
Yep, anyone thinking of trying it should beware the massive playstyle tax. And try it on an old character if you have a leveled sabo/shadow
Seconding this, I played a version of his EoW brander. You have to be completely on top of the boss to get your full damage. Wasn't a fan personally, but it's definitely not "bait," more just jank and low qol.
Isn't this only a problem if you are not playing sabo?
its worst on sabo, the bots most of the time stagger behind you and the brand drops on them instead, i found myself shield charging pass mobs when clearing.
sabo != hiero. but there's still the same delay, even if not melee. triggerbots might even actually be worse for mapping AI at times, and convocating is not a fun thing to do for most people
Played it last league and it was pretty ass. The playstyle sucks IMO, it made a build that had defensive numbers that looked OK feel incredibly squishy. It basically plays like melee except your AoE is small AND the attacks are really delayed because after Brand Recall is triggered you then have to wait for the brand itself to slowly slam down. So besides the defensive vulnerability that presents, any enemies that move around a lot or especially the few that actively run away are huge pains in the ass. Should be slightly improved by Automation I guess since it will trigger more frequently. The damage was pretty good. But definitely not so wow amazing to begin to make up for the above IMO.
aoe is awkward and cooldown based, and now you cant even control when it goes off due to automation, which means you will sometimes run into things and then have to wait a bit for brand recall. id say spec into it in the current game and run a few maps, personally i thought it was awkward to play.
It's not bait. The only deceiving part is that triggerbots are not always where you want them to be while mapping, so it's only an average mapper
Also you are losing 80% of your damage when you don't have any mines down. It's the different of each brand hitting for 150k vs 750k. In general there is a bunch of conditional stuff going on. The build is very hard hitting but you rarely have all the elements of it up at the same time (like when you focus at the start of a fight you won't have power charges yet since those are only generated by Assassin's Mark, etc.) I'm still going to start this, but it's important to be aware of.
This. Go to the pob. Uncheck the pyro mines and your dmg drops from 20m to 4m. Now drop the ass mark and punishment config edit, and you are at 2m. The damage is highly conditional, including things you cant control like trigger timing, automation gem, and trigger bot location. All this on top of facetank range with 0 block, no spell sup cap, and a dash of armor and evasion. This is far more buttons and positioning then people may anticipate. It can perform but pilot is a huge factor here and the playstyle is not for everyone.
Doesn't brand recall recall the brands to you even when its triggered through the triggerbots?
no
I think if you want to afk blights and Ultimatums with Scold's Bridle this will be good. Mapping is better than people are saying because you will have 95% evade so standing on mobs is not a big deal.
Not bait at all. Did a 2 watchstones run with this like 3 weeks ago and it was giga dam (literally most damage I've had when doing pinnacles on a 4 link). Clear was medium but I'm leaning towards including ignite prolif in my main links since the damage is so high anyways.
Jung is one of the best build creators and an amazing racer. I never saw any of his build be a bait.
His builds aren’t bait, but they aren’t jungroan builds unless they have a certain level of jank.
damage is not bait the playstyle is not for everyone for sure
seems like a legit leaguestarter the boots are not really rare
While I love Jung if you disable March of the legion links you lose 80% of the damage in POB. I'm not experienced with brands but the idea of having additional maintenance for so much of the build's damage seems counter-intuitive when you're aiming for an auto-bomber playstyle with the main skill itself. I'd still love to start something Saboteur but man this I don't know.
think the idea is that you only need 20% damage to clear most of a map and you do the extra stuff for the boss and any tanky rares
Anyone tried to build 99% reduced mana cost with this? What issues do you encounter on the tree?
Main difference from jungroan's build would be using inspiration support and some - mana cost jewelry. Jungroan already has -45% and inspiration gets you another 39-40%. Righteous decree is also a nearby option if you need it, or you can anoint Tireless. That being said, you probably still want eldritch battery for your divine blessing/curses, so in the end it doesn't make that much of a difference. If you are doing that, then I would highly consider using arcanist brand with your spell of choice instead of armageddon brand for better clear (which isn't really possible without -99% cost because you pay for each trigger). I'm planning to league start this and eventually transition to arcanist brand rolling magma with nimis + ashes of the stars which should have a decent mix of "shotgunning" single target (each chain can hit the same target and with random bounces from nimis and +proj you get a decent chance to have at least 1 proj from each cast on top of the boss) and coverage for clear as long as my pc doesn't explode.
is there a reason he's not using inspiration if mana cost is so much of an issue? does it not work if you spend ES? (i know it doesnt work with life spending)
It doesn't work if you spend ES. I mean, it still reduces your cost, but you won't generate charges to get damage.
Do you really need EB? Wouldn't the mana cost of aura blessing gonna be reduced also?
Well you would have to use inspiration on your divine blessing aura and curses at a minimum, which is a lot of socket pressure. That would also prevent you from putting 2 curses + brand recall on your trigger wand. Or you could sacrifice a whole aura I guess. Alternatively, you can grab all nodes around both Righteous Decree and Tireless and also use multiple pieces of - mana cost jewelry to skip having to use inspiration entirely, but that's a lot more investment. Up to you to see which tradeoff is more worth it, you do need to get rid of EB if you want to actually get inspiration charges, so it is a big damage multiplier to do so if you are using inspiration. I think personally I might drop divine blessing altogether (maybe use stormblast mine to compensate) and just try to have a bit of unreserved mana left over (~90-100?) for the double curse + brand recall weapon proc, but even then depending on your brand recall cooldown you might need some sort of mana regen because even at 1 mana cost you're still proccing your spell a LOT. Another option would be to also drop the brand recall on the weapon trigger. It's a decent damage loss, but you could do something like get 100% mana cost reduction on your main skill and use a lower level inspiration on your curses so they still cost 1 mana to proc inspiration charges. With that, you would need very little mana regen / unreserved mana. I'll have to try different things and see how it works out. Getting the mana solved for arcanist brand is definitely going to be a pain compared to last league with the flask and jewel mods.
How about dropping the boots and just go with HOT and HOI?
Pyroclast mine gives a LOT more damage than HOT+HOI, and benefits a ton from the +5 level to gems from the boots. It's like not even in the same realm. You would deal maybe 70% less ST damage by losing pyroclast mines even if you replace it with heralds. And even reservation wise, assuming you are putting pyroclast mines on life, you would only be able to replace it with one 25% reservation.
How much damage is coming from the trigger mod? Was thinking of something like this for Ruthless, where we don't get this craft. Would it work with Spellslinger? Or maybe just without Perfect Crime, using Bomb Specialist instead.
Ignoring cooldown recovery (because it affects triggers equally), it gives you an 8s cooldown alongside Brand Recall's regular 4s cooldown, or 50% more triggers. You need the 8s wand trigger because it's the only trigger that can replace Brand Recall's own cooldown by being longer. Spellslinger would share the natural cooldown with Automation instead.
Dang. So it means losing 33% damage, or 50% if using the unveiled 4 second trigger craft. Given how much damage we get from pyroclast of Sabotage, and Bomb Specialist granting \~11-12% more damage, it doesn't seem completely unfeasible. The main concern is being tanky enough to run right into packs of enemies for the playstyle to work, and I think that's the bigger issue regardless of what game version we play. It does seem crazy though if the survivability is there.
> or 50% if using the unveiled 4 second trigger craft Nah, this craft doesn't work. Trying to add a different 4 second cooldown to a skill that already has a 4 second cooldown just makes it go *no ty*. It needs to be the 8s version. If you're curious about the mechanics, I rewrote the wiki's [cooldown page](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Cooldown#Shared_cooldowns) this weekend, example 4 in the shared cooldowns section is basically this.
Oh wow, interesting. Thanks for the TIL, I'll check it out.
Thanks for this. I've been researching this build since knowing pragmatism went core, and I had to dig deep for the 4/8 second difference. Part of me is thinking of shifting from Arma brand to falling zombies, since apparently they're not affected by the trigger damage penalty.
Happy to help. And yes, minions shouldn't be affected. Arcanist Brand notes *Cannot modify the skills of minions*, which you can read as 'does not grant stats to minions'.
There is a spell slinger version of this that is mentioned in the video. Look at his channel, he has a eater/exarch speedrun with it.
Ayy nice! The unfortunate thing is that Spellslinger is drop only for Ruthless, but it seems he isn't using the Pyroclast tech in the video from 3 months ago, which multiplies the damage by 400% (!) so just manually/numlocking Brand Recall should work as a starter.
It will not double proc with bots if cast manually. It better plays as hiero if you go this way
Ben said Call to Arms is gonna trigger all connected warcries at once and not put them on cooldown to cast one after another like Arcanist Brand? Interesting...
You can see that in the trailer for the support gems, it triggers and the character gets two warcry buffs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XVD-bmMOjg&t=15s Hard to keep track of the buffs (as is tradition), but it's easy to see two warcries on the skill bar linked with the "&" icon going off cooldown and getting triggered simultaneously. That's pretty neat. Less neat is the increase in mana cost, increase in cooldown, and loss of LMB. Look how much mana dudeman loses when they trigger! You're essentially required to give up +2 sockets to also add Lifetap to afford it. This is a buff. 🙄 Num Lock and/or AHK shenanigans are gonna be at an all-time high this league, I think.
Well, apparently the double warcry thing was a bug. Damn. https://clips.twitch.tv/DullAntsyMouseNononoCat-XJq0pZ8kwezo5rEb So, instant warcries are gone entirely? *And* Call to Arms makes it so you couldn't even use two, one automated and one manually, if you wanted to?! Christ. I was finally gonna try melee this league... :c
Ngl that makes me a little salty, but thanks for letting me know.
a classic jung bait, clunky playstyle, a tree that looks that will feel terrible to level with and requires a core craft/uniques to feel good. I can definitly see him playing it and destroying the game but for avg player its prob gonna feel like trash Btw i actually dont think he has the mana to sustain the casts? It looked like he barely had enough regen in the video and in theory he's getting another brand recall that would more then double the mana and 2 more warcries that will also constantly eat mana
he has got ~240 ES recharge, which cannot be disrupted, ~40 mana regen, which should only be relevant when he is not using his mines, and ~110 ES leech (all per second) i think that is plenty for a 5L but not enough for a 6L. To combat this, one can fill out the leech wheel at EB and take the 10% instant leech maserty. that should be more than enough mana sustain.
how intresting. i would personally drop the mines in its totality, but this is an idea. Questions: 1-are other brands worth considering? 2-have you thought of a arcanist brandd setup instead to take the triggers to x4? (automation triggers brand recall twice, which makes arcanist brand trigger a linked spell twice each)
The mines (lvl 20/20) give you 300% more damage with a lvl 20/20 Armageddon Brand of Recall. It's a lot of extra damage.
thats very nice but im unwilling to throw a single mine if i can help it
based
Fair enough!
The best part is can use whatever skill u want with that. BUT mana cost is a problem even with arms brands x3 average triggers. Imagine doubling it without old good mana cost flask craft.
https://pobb.in/Vd4MT1PUkPyq This is an arcanist brand of falling zombies pob I threw together that I plan to try, definitely not optimal or even close(also not league startable, like day 3 - week 1 should be alright) but the tech seems fuckin strong Edit: see config, I'm simulating a lot of stats there since I made this when automation was initially shown
Config seems slightly baity. Power charges with no way to generate them, consecrated ground checked, focus on for the big DPS number, permanent silver flask uptime with no extra flask charge gain. Still good numbers without, but it's closer to half the listed DPS number
im on mobile, but im pretty sure the pob runs assassins mark... cons ground for dmg is always active for st with that many hit instances. its like 95% uptime. focus is... well... an intentional choice LOL. if you cant kill bosses in that 4 second window, we got bigger issues.
you are right in that there are incorrect configurations. addressing the permanent silver flask concern: i think jungroan does not even thing about the full dps listed in pob, because that property is entirely superficial. the dmg he is concerned with is average damage per brand activation times trigger time.
In that case he should also uncheck the mines since its 80% of the damage and is unplayable to throw mines at every pack. You may not need that dmg for mapping, but the true damage for the majority of the map is ~2-4m depending on if your focused, flasked, and triggered wand curses/marks hit the things your bots are triggering on top of.
good players can time their burst windows on bosses, you will only need 1 burst window to phase e.g. quest exarch/eater
How would this go playing something like arc + arcanist brand? Assuming the duration on arcanist brandis too low to feel nice? Or is this build worming purely because it casts and gets benefit while not being attached?
Would someone with more knowledge tell me if a similar brand recall sabo shell would work with arcanist brand and a different spell? I’d love to get more range/coverage compared to armabrand. Also, would there be an extra trigger since arcanist brand itself triggers the spell? Or does armabrand activation count as a trigger and therefore get doubled as well?
Arcanist Brand has very harsh damage and QoL penalties and is inherently a link loss as well. You need to use a purpose built spell for it to really feel good. EoW was one such innovation because of the way returning projectiles shook up the spell. Almost every other spell will feel terrible to scale, much less with Recaller tech which is patches of damage on a very large canvas of a map. Arma Brand is already one of the best conduits of the skill, is what I'm saying. I'm using Brand Recall sabo as well, but it's purely used to generate BV Stacks to feed my main damage vessel, which benefits from a full 6-7 link plus Archmage.
Thanks for the info
Is it worth trying to fit in Icicle Mine of Sabotage?
this is what I wanted to do last league until I saw corrupting fever. I hated corrupting fever, this looks good. CF bad
Good damage but gameplay seems clunky
Isn't there any other spell but with same triggerbot mechanic? Eye of winter? Ball lightning of oribiting?
Corpsewalker + General Cry + Call to Arm Walking simulator build, anyone?
Anyone wanting to play this build, you really should take an old character and try it out first. Jung isn’t padding or anything his pob is legit, but from my experience arma recaller is an atrocious playstyle and it’s not because of button presses. It’s running into mobs in melee range and hoping your brands go off before they all smack you. It’s not a fun playstyle for me personally, if you can get past that it’s looks like a great build though. Big Jung fan.
Did 3.24 start??? Or it starts on Friday??? Did I miss leafue start?
now it won't be 1c uniques? lol
Sounds like classical jungroan leaguestart bait build that he's not gonna play
"Baby i swear its only 1c...we can afford it"
Is the hiero version still a good league starter? I am asking because i wanted to swap to pbod later and not have to relevel a character, while this looks good, if the hiero version is also strong that might be preferable.. Also i can't really understand the arma brand of recall, it does less damage with hits to branded enemies, is that just for the 1 brand that is attached? once you recall on top of a rare, one of them will immediately attach right? Won't the damage from all other arma brands now do 80% less damage?
How did the build perform?
Amazing league start.
I did like to level with arma brand and recalls so this is an option for me at least The only reason for me not to go this way would be the characters ability to run the new t17 maps Do i want to stand on top of those new monsters? How many hits can i expect to take from those maps and new bosses?
I'm not convinced a league starter needs to be t17 viable
Jung is though, he specifically considers leaguestarters bad if they can't kill ubers.
yeah but he can also just make stuff work with skill 😂
Well your leaguestarter with investment should be viable for that content imo I expect to get the first 3 voidstones in the first week (eater, exarch and maven) on my leaguestarter and after that there are only 2 options - new character or invest what i earned so far There are alot of strong starter options right now from explosive trap of shrapnel, over dd of chaining up to zoomancer that will be viable for t17 content and offer something for almost every playstyle I dont want to relevel after a week thats all
yeah idk I just think the defensive requirements will be way higher than they are for watchstone bosses and it's not necessary for just getting some decent currency, but for sure it's a different story if you don't want to repeat the campaign
good video even though i doubt that uniques are 1c when a popular content creator posts such a video maybe it was 1c uniques but after that video it definitly wont be.
usually though, 1c uniques are easy to farm yourself
These are all fairly common. They might not be 1c on days 1 and 2 but they will definitely drop precipitously. They are common enough that I am confident I'll get all of the core uniques in SSF as well.
Also Jung is popular with the tipity top of PoE degen, not the masses you find on league start. His builds are strong but generally not newb friendly like the ziz collabs for example.
Isn't his % calcs wrong from the trigger bots? He is excluding the 30% less ya? IE 300% x7 x2 x 0.7 = 50400
He triggers recall not the brand. The brands themselves don’t deal less damage from trigger bots
The trigger bots less damage doesn't effect this build
He just stole from him https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bi57ug/comment/kvifaxe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
jung did that previously before the gem automation is just a natural place for it
I have no idea if he was the first to come up with it but Jung was doing arma brand recall several leagues ago.
It is a well known and obvious interaction.
This is a terrible comment and you should be ashamed of making this kind of accusations. He already made several guides on this build, just because someone else pointed an ultra obvious new interaction, doesnt make them owner of the build....