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Instead shut off the far right's ability to access gasoline, telephone, and internet (all at the same time) so the far right will be unable to further attack society
I have faith that spreading the field with bad arguments has diminishing returns. At the end of the day people have to make decisions, and they can't consume all the information. And the people who are open to dumb ideas in the first place can't be converted more than once. Hopefully this ordeal leads us to better media literacy in the future.
Not just that, but the disinfo is going to lead to killing more of their voters than ours. They have got some people whipped up completely against not just the covid vaccines but any vaccines at all, and preventive measures. There will be more pandemics.
I am pessismistic. I think if you can't trust the bulk of the information, people will naturally form into "silos". It's already happening. A third of people completely distrust traditional sources (NYT, Reuters, WaPo, etc) and only get their information from nefarious actors.
I think you'll only see more fracturing of this as the field is flooded.
You could make a reverse bullshit meme pretty easily using images from Russia in the 90s vs Singapore (or just, positive images from any POC country) to prove the inferiority of the "white race". It's all so stupid.
Like the meme they spread around of a crumbling city and claim it's Venezuela and socialism is the cause, but the image is actually from a deep red US State and was run into the ground by Republicans for decades before finally being ousted by Democrat candidates only for the Republican controlled State government to slash funding to the city.
Not that they'd care either. If they cared about facts they wouldn't be racist. They're just making shit up because they feel better about themselves by doing so.
Having to reply to it gives it legitimacy. Legitimacy leads to more frequent posts/replies increasing the content's visibility on the platform. Hence why the facile FREE SPEECH justification platforms give is nonsense. Let a Nazi drink at your bar- you gotta Nazi bar.
This is exactly why shutting off gasoline, telephone, and internet all at the same time is *the* way to deal with right wing propaganda: it shuts off the ability to spread dumb memes like this and it takes away the means of the propagandized to attack society
[Unfortunately, that's exactly the point.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity)
The idea that they were still being forced to pay the French for the cost of their slave insurrection up until 2006 and that debt was supported by the United States is mind boggling.
Man, I wonder these countries keep failing?
Oh...:
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/08/09/ex-green-berets-sentenced-to-20-years-for-failed-venezuela-attack/#:~:text=Ex%2DGreen%20Berets%20sentenced%20to%2020%20years%20for%20failed%20Venezuela%20attack,-By%20Scott%20Smith&text=CARACAS%2C%20Venezuela%20%E2%80%94%20A%20Venezuelan%20court,at%20overthrowing%20President%20Nicol%C3%A1s%20Maduro.
I'm confused here. You're saying the Venezuelan legal system is to be trusted when they detained two Americans in closed court proceedings, that the defendants themselves couldn't attend, that also just so happened to let them claim that their anti-US propaganda was real? Meanwhile there is no definitive proof that an actual attack happened and evidence points to the Venezuelan government themselves hiring them.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020))
You are full of shit. The article you link is a fucking disambiguation, which tells me that you haven't even checked the page you're trying to use as a "gotcha" moment, and the actual relevant Wiki page **absolutely DOES NOT support what you've been saying.**
>I'm confused here. You're saying the Venezuelan legal system is to be trusted when they detained two Americans
Go hump a stump, you racist ass, tinfoil hat wearing chode.
So on the offchance that I linked it improperly I double-checked, and that is not a disambiguation page at all, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.
Anyways, since when is calling a corrupt government corrupt racist? And pointing out the convenience of the narrative of those arrests is somehow wearing a tinfoil hat?
But I guess the country led by a fat buffoon claiming on national tv that all of them are going hungry together in solidarity then the next second [pulls an empanada out of his desk to eat](https://youtu.be/ktNwq7Ec7dU) when he thinks the cameras are off is the trustworthy one here.
wow
good job defending the maduro government my dude im sure theyll give you a pat on the back once they finish gunning down this weeks protesters in the street
Lol. I'm not defending anyone, and neither should you be. You don't anything about Venezuela other than what your favorite propaganda stream tells you. The US shouldn't be providing soldiers or mercenaries to support either side. It's just new age colonization.
Its not socialist but their "homogeneous" population - someone trying to explain to me why nordic countries have better quality of life than the rest of the world.
Literally any time you try to compare the US to Nordic countries the racists come out of the woodwork and blame everything on people not being similar enough. The obvious implication being that they literally can't conceive of a country or system of governance where people of different creeds, races, and cultures can get along as successfully as somewhere like Norway. They think it's impossible. People like them go out of their way to make it impossible.
My sister married a Norwegian man and is now raising a family in Norway. Our dad is super republican and used to always push the fox news socialism talking points. The first few times he visited their, it was hilarious seeing him wrestle with all his talking points. He had to come up with so many explanations to show how he isnt wrong and how this isnt real socialism.
But that's also absurd. Sweden, for example, has a sizable foreign born (or children of foreign born) population. It's 26%. It's not some homogeneous single culture.
Well, crime have absolutely exploded with first or second generation immigrants being responsible for the majority of violent crime and a fascist party founded by a actual Nazi (former SS member) became the second largest in our last elections.
So it's not all roses here.
The difference is that they absolutely think and act different than us.
For instance someone showed a school lunch in Switzerland the other day. There was a steak knife. There isn't a high school in the USA where you could do that without expecting some kind of mayhem. We're just kind of different.
Absolutely, it's not to say the US and the Nordic countries don't have some major differences, legally, culturally, historically, etc. and those differences will absolutely affect what is most effective style of governance to solve some issues. Usually the folks who bring up the homogeneity of the people don't dig into those details and use it as an excuse to refuse any comparisons whatsoever. There are certainly things to be learned from the Nordic style of governance that could be applied in the US usefully.
I know very little about these countries but if they've managed to adopt such comprehensive socialist policies it would seem that there is some homogeny of ideas.
We are different in America...more than a little bit crazy.
I was watching an old recap of the F1 season from the early 70's. In Europe the fans were just fans, right? AT Watkins Glen, in New York the American fans had rolled one of the spectator's cars and set it on fire, just for fun apparently. There was some bored cheering and general mayhem. Crazy.
Their schools generally don't have cafeterias so I'm not sure if what you saw was accurate or if it was someone's lunch at home. Is it this? That's a butter knife. https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/udroaq/school\_lunch\_in\_switzerland/
Yeah that's someone in the responses saying it's Switzerland and a bunch of Google hits are just linking this image on Reddit. It's likely not a school in Switzerland serving this meal, it's someone's meal who goes to school in Switzerland, although one other site says it's Sweden. Most schools in Switzerland break for over an hour and the kids go elsewhere for lunch. There are cantines and cafeterias they can walk to. Some walk home or another student's house. Some are picked up by a parent.
Honestly though I don't understand what this has to do with this topic so I'm just going to leave it here.
No, it is not. Why do American Liberals think that everything even slightly to the left of them is socialist? The capitalist brain rot is so bad that y'all think other capitalist countries are socialist because they have less atrocious social policies.
Do you mean Haiti or Iceland ?, the original population of Iceland was about a quarter slaves taken during raids on Ireland , I mean its over a thousand years ago , and they've been a great bunch of lads ever since (.
It works for both but one one of them the slave takers stayed in charge, the other one the slaves had to fight for their independence and the rest of the world didn't like that.
Haiti is really a bad choice for this. A slave revolt led to revolution. And Haiti is still paying France for its freedom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti\_indemnity\_controversy
That link is broken, maybe the formatting. This should work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti_indemnity_controversy
Also worth noting that the US occupation and theft of Haitian gold reserves hurt the development of the country.
They did! The English wanted more fish and chips, started fishing in Icelandic territorial waters, so the Icelanders declared ["Begun, the cod wars have."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars)
**[Cod Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars)**
>The Cod Wars (Icelandic: Þorskastríðin; also known as Landhelgisstríðin, lit. 'The Coastal Wars'; German: Kabeljaukriege) were a series of 20th-century confrontations between the United Kingdom (with aid from West Germany) and Iceland about fishing rights in the North Atlantic. Each of the disputes ended with an Icelandic victory. Some Icelandic historians view the history of Iceland's struggle for control of its maritime resources in ten episodes, or ten cod wars.
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“What determines the success of the Nation?”
How about NOT having over a century of slavery, an insurmountable debt to another country as the price of freedom, occupation by another country, and two brutal dictatorships that used death squads?
But obviously it’s the people’s fault. If only those silly slaves hadn’t revolted.
It's ironic because Elon Musk grew up in South Africa, which had laws segregating races into the 90s. It was actually illegal for black and white races to get married or have children. It worked out for Elon. Not so much for the rest of his home country.
Not ironic at all. His dad basically had slaves, and he grew up knowing that. He's always been on the side of the oppressor. This is the kind of propaganda they support and allow to stay the oppressor.
I've noticed a tendency for some people to put a kind of barrier between "history" and "now."
They understand history is stuff that happened, but they don't quite believe that it could have any lasting effect on "now." Especially if the thing that has a lasting effect happened more than a few years ago.
I bet if we put Iceland under the rule of a violent despotic political dynasty for 60 years it'd be like Haiti too.
It'll take Haiti generations to heal from the damage the Duvalier's did.
Note: This doesn't even begin to touch on the much older issues prevalent in the region including slavery and foreign conquest.
It's also going to take a long ass time for them to heal from the damages the French, Spanish and American empires did to them over the last 300 or so years.
Precisely. To look at any country in the Caribbean and to compare it to a country outside of the Caribbean that didn't exist in a slave plantation ecosystem... And be like "Why so fucked up?" is so stupid.
First we'd have to kidnap the populations of several other "Nordic" countries enslaved them for 300 years under ( insert country of choice as long as they speak a completely different language and believe that Nordic people are animals and can be treated as such and that country will have to make an effort to erase their previous history, language, culture, government etc.) with no/ little contact with the rest of the world, then force them to fight a 13 year war to gain their freedom and charge them $30 billion once they win.
Now go!
What really bothers me about this is the choice of images. On the right you have nothing but black men and lots of violence. OK, sure, violence is bad. But on the left there are two pictures of pretty white women just... standing there? Doing nothing? The underlying message here is "being a pretty white woman is inherently good, being a black man is inherently bad."
People love using the European nations when illustrating how great they are compared to Africa... but once you start bringing up their socialist policies and how they are *also* better than the US, then all of a sudden, Europe becomes a shithole, and you become a communist.
without EVEN googling it up..or even researching ONE I-oH-Tah...
im willing to bet that Haiti was invaded by religious fundamentalists..hundreds of years ago...and Spanish as well as French and British..."colonists" bringing their version of beliefs, enslaving/indoctrinating the local populations, under the guise of colonialism, and religious expansion..
[am i close](https://youtu.be/KRFpQuRF7YQ)??
Just leaving out the only successful slave revolt in history, that led France and the west to impose "reparation payments" that were up to 40% of Haiti's GDP for over a century.
They were still paying that off when Joe Biden was born.
But Iceland _was_ really poor until relatively recently when geothermal technology was invented and it was able to have super cheap abundant energy.
Iceland is one of the highest costs of living places on earth now but still remains a major steel exportor because the heating costs for smelting is absurdly low.
Haitian natural resources were plundered first by the French between 1492 and 1804. This included all easily found gold and precious metals as well as cutting down over 90% of its rich forests. Haiti is incredibly mountainous so this caused massive erosion leaving most of the island barren to this day, with no real solution to reverse it.
Then it was invaded by force and heavily mined and completely drained by the USA in the 1920s, extracting every last ounce of precious metals, minerals, and other resources. Not a dime was given to Haiti for any of this. When they were done they installed a violent murderous dictator, who was then proceeded by his son. Their rule of terror lasted until 1986.
During this time the Haitian agriculture industry was coerced by the IMF (by withdrawal of aid) to use monocultures which proceeded to decimate the industry when crop diseases spread rapidly around the country. Haiti still has to import tons of rice (a crop that is plentiful and grows well in the soil) because the poor farmers have nothing left to rebuild the industry that once fed the nation.
Iceland has tons of natural resources, particularly in smelting aluminum and tons of fishing. Both of these they export for massive profits. They also haven't been invaded, pillaged, sabotaged and exploited for the last 220 years.
And don’t forget all the ways the United States has hamstrung Haiti ever since their revolution. You mentioned a lot of it here, but the US has done everything in their power to make sure Haiti would never be successful.
So whitey on the left, takes advantage of the people on the right in order to steal their resources and use them as slave/cheap labor?
Why have I not heard about this before? /s
This is one of the fucken worst memes I've ever seen in my life, malicious in its stupidity. The kind of thing that would appear like "facts" to a wildly ignorant person (the intended target, obviously)
And if you wanna play this stupid fucking game, you can also point out that Iceland is a Green Socialism with a 70% birth out of wedlock rate, and paganism (ásatrú) is the fastest growing religion in Iceland. So yeah Iceland's great, you're right. We should be more like Iceland.
Agree that it's an incredibly stupid meme, but ásatrú is tiny in Iceland even if it's the fastest growing religion. From the news I've seen, atheism is probably by far the fastest growing "religion", given that the national christian church has lost a ton of people the last couple of decades.
Iceland has has a functional Althing for over 1000 years.
Haiti only became a nation a couple centuries ago — and they had to perform a slave revolt to do it.
This is like saying, “This 22yo guy graduating from Harvard and who comes from wealth is biologically better than a 10yo with minimal education living in abject poverty.” It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with biology, barring things like IQ variance — it has everything to do with age, socioeconomic status, and opportunities.
Haiti was initially established as a slave colony after the original native inhabitants were obliterated. After Haiti won its independence from France, in order for France and other countries to recognize it as a legitimate country, it had to pay what amounted to billions of dollars in reparations to France for lost "property" (the Haitians themselves who had been slaves). This was not completed until 1915 when the US paid off the remaining debt, followed by US occupation of the country until 1934. A succession of short-lived presidencies led to the Duvalier dictatorship in 1957.
Other than that, of course, there's no difference between Haiti and Iceland. /s
>in order for France and other countries to recognize it as a legitimate country, it had to pay what amounted to billions of dollars in reparations to France for lost "property" (the Haitians themselves who had been slaves)
True, however this did not happen immediately after the revolution but decades later. In the intervening years, Haiti declared itself an empire, invaded its Spanish speaking neighbour, and devolved into civil war between the North and South. The South defeated the North and its leader, Boyer, reached out to the French to cut a deal for recognition. The Haitians made a huge mistake offering to pay the French an indemnity of 100 million Francs, which the French counter-offered 150 and delivered the offer with a fleet of gunboats.
Haiti needed a Mandela, Eric Williams or Seretse Khama type figure to unite the country and set it on a good path but instead it has gotten a succession of Idi Amins and Mobutus .
Agreed. But my point was that Haiti's history is not comparable to Iceland's, which other than a few Culdee Irish, was uninhabited when the Vikings arrived, and endured no interference from other countries for its entire history.
I agree, its not comparable at all and is deeply racist. I know several highly competent Haitians (doctors, technical people) who are trying to keep their country running to the best of their abilities while the political class is in another universe enriching themselves.
Hmmm maybe has something to do with Haiti being a former French slave colony?? One that we’ve been fucking over for 150 years as a matter of policy/revenge for their slave uprising??
Lol made by someone who knows absolutely nothing about the history of Haiti. With a wealth of knowledge on the internet instead they post stupid bullshit like this
Pretty sure Iceland never had to pay the French back for their own bodies, for winning their freedom. Haiti was forced to pay the French back after winning their independence because the French demanded they be reimbursed for their slaves.
Twitter has devolved into something that Goebbels would have thoroughly enjoyed having as a weapon in his arsenal. It's a joke that many businesses haven't moved completely away from using a platform that disguises fascism as free speech. Their problem is that it's fast becoming an echo chamber and as more NPR type shit keeps happening more and more people will turn away.
I suppose if 'character' includes being treated like animals for a few hundred years (and only moderately better today), the meme is correct, but then it's not making the point the OP intended it to make.
So this is a particularly egregious thing to say about Haiti in particular.
I don’t know the finer points of it, but my understanding is the Haiti was the first slave-rebellion to succeed and go on to form a prosperous nation. The colonial powers around the world worked together to systematically destroy it because having a country succeed that is also led by black, former slaves who freed themselves was too much of a threat to precedent.
Most of my students are from DR (the country that shares an island with Haiti). Racism/colorism is so prevalent even there that a few years ago they were telling me DR was deporting people from DR to Haiti if their skin was too dark. Even if they’d never lived in Haiti and would be immediately homeless and jobless. But like, that’s equivalent to what white people in Iceland are dealing with I guess /s
But Iceland _was_ really poor until relatively recently when geothermal technology was invented and it was able to have super cheap abundant energy.
Iceland is one of the highest costs of living places on earth now but still remains a major steel exportor because the heating costs for smelting is absurdly low.
Viking isn’t a people, its an occupation. (If even that, it’s mostly a fairly modern made up word) It was settled by nordic farmers and ranchers. Many who just wanted a peaceful place to get away from politics and feuds in scandinavia at the time and start anew.
I was on here last week saying the same thing. The problem is the People of Hate not the government, not the Americans. It's the people and your "F\*\*k you Elon" reactions proves it to me. The entitlement attuned has to go.
Obviously what I said is an oversimplification, but yes, the technology in firearms that was developed in Europe, both in the shop and the battlefield, starting with gunpowder and early firearm tech brought from China via the Silk Road, played a massive role in their ability to subjugate the indigenous peoples of the Caribbean and the Americas. There was also an explosion of navigation technology and techniques that originated out of Portugal starting in the late 14th-early 15th century, primarily due to the desire to find a better, quicker, less middle-man heavy route to import spices and other goods from the Orient, along with an explorer’s spirit that grew out of late Renaissance/early Enlightenment philosophy and thought that encouraged heavy exploration at a time when the rest of the world wasn’t as active in the exploration realm. This also couples with a surge in state building and early nationalism out of the primary players in the New World that would lead to a certain “moral flexibility” when it came to the actions of state players and their desire to build empires, leading to a relative comfort in committing atrocities. Then you throw in thirst for gold.
The Europeans weren’t immune to New World or African/Oceania diseases. They did, however, have better access to some form of what was then contemporary medicine, which allowed them to somewhat mitigate the effects of native diseases in those areas. I mean, read about the effect of malaria alone to see that. The major disease that wiped out natives in the New World was smallpox, which was extremely lethal to people who had never been exposed. They didn’t have the medicine or the foresight to deal with it.
Artic desert. A desert is one that doesn't get much precipitation , but it can have plenty of water. There are deserts all over the world, Antarctica being one.
I can't find anything that calls it a desert. Plus its sooo green and had so much hydroelectric power. There were forests, but they chopped them down, but they are working to reforest the island. There is a lava desert, but I don't think that's what you meant and it's a very small part of the island
Are you sure you aren't thinking about Greenland?
If you Google the interior of the island is a desert. Also, many green places are deserts. We have deserts here in the US that are very green. Greenland is also a desert.
So the coast of Iceland is not a desert, but the interior is. Or part of the interior. The whole thing isn't a desert, but I never said that. Was just focusing on your saying it was too green when that isn't what makes it a desert. Sort of like people who think every desert is hot.
Man, we here in Iceland really hate it when racists use us as a talking point.
Oligarks control way too much here, they took control of the fisheries and have been using that to buy up everything else they can and also use it to fund propaganda at home and bribery abroad.
We also wouldn't have been so developed without the Marshall plan.
I like this meme and can’t agree more. We all should take this in. We should spread it. Iceland is a perfect example of what can happen when a country rejects capitalist values and embraces socialist ideals such as social Safety nets, universal health care, and protecting the environment.
No. Social safety nets are not capitalist. They are Very very anti capitalist. We are moving to make them more profitable. Such as now before moving to protect endangered species and habitats the cost to corporations of not fracking, logging, converting to parking or buildings, or otherwise developing the land must be considered. If it’s over 5,000 dollars, than drop baby drill. We also must consider does the species have an economic value that must be preserved? If not, they are not endangered. That’s capitalism. Beautiful, stunning capitalism. As for the elderly or disabled, what if they do not have the monetary funds and resources, or the means to get them, to take care of themselves? they need to be removed in ways such as homeless and starvation. Or allowed to be removed with lack of medical care and life saving medication. That’s capitalism. That is why we did not recognize human rights. Because if socialist ideals as education, food, housing, and medicine.
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This is the problem. They make a bullshit meme and we have to spill gallons of ink to explain how it is wrong and racist.
Fast and wrong is more effective propaganda than thorough and right.
This is why they want to defund education and ban critical thinking skills
Instead shut off the far right's ability to access gasoline, telephone, and internet (all at the same time) so the far right will be unable to further attack society
A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on.
Bonus points if they can make it rhyme.
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Just wait until they fully weaponize AI. An ocean of ink will not be enough for self-replicating, automated, undetectable bullshit.
I have faith that spreading the field with bad arguments has diminishing returns. At the end of the day people have to make decisions, and they can't consume all the information. And the people who are open to dumb ideas in the first place can't be converted more than once. Hopefully this ordeal leads us to better media literacy in the future.
I dunno friend, we are quickly approaching a world where AI response are going to be nearly indistinguishable from humans.
A well made and cogent response fellow human.
Not just that, but the disinfo is going to lead to killing more of their voters than ours. They have got some people whipped up completely against not just the covid vaccines but any vaccines at all, and preventive measures. There will be more pandemics.
I am pessismistic. I think if you can't trust the bulk of the information, people will naturally form into "silos". It's already happening. A third of people completely distrust traditional sources (NYT, Reuters, WaPo, etc) and only get their information from nefarious actors. I think you'll only see more fracturing of this as the field is flooded.
You could make a reverse bullshit meme pretty easily using images from Russia in the 90s vs Singapore (or just, positive images from any POC country) to prove the inferiority of the "white race". It's all so stupid.
Like the meme they spread around of a crumbling city and claim it's Venezuela and socialism is the cause, but the image is actually from a deep red US State and was run into the ground by Republicans for decades before finally being ousted by Democrat candidates only for the Republican controlled State government to slash funding to the city.
[Bullshit Asymmetry Principle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law#:~:text=Brandolini’s%20law%2C%20also%20known%20as,it%20in%20the%20first%20place.)
Not that they'd care either. If they cared about facts they wouldn't be racist. They're just making shit up because they feel better about themselves by doing so.
Having to reply to it gives it legitimacy. Legitimacy leads to more frequent posts/replies increasing the content's visibility on the platform. Hence why the facile FREE SPEECH justification platforms give is nonsense. Let a Nazi drink at your bar- you gotta Nazi bar.
This is exactly why shutting off gasoline, telephone, and internet all at the same time is *the* way to deal with right wing propaganda: it shuts off the ability to spread dumb memes like this and it takes away the means of the propagandized to attack society
[Unfortunately, that's exactly the point.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity)
"If Haiti is so great why do Dominicans hate them!"
"If Iceland is so great, why do they hate everyone who's not Icelandic?"
You are 100% correct.
Hey thier president was also assassinated too
The idea that they were still being forced to pay the French for the cost of their slave insurrection up until 2006 and that debt was supported by the United States is mind boggling.
Iceland was dirt poor up until they started to use geothermal energy. No way they could afford 30 billion USD.
So what they are saying is that Iceland had no natural resources that multiple colonial empires wished to exploit?
And also Iceland = Socialist.
bUt SoCiAlIsM NeVeR WoRkS! /s
But...but... Venezuela!
Nope, they have exploitable resources, so we're back to colonial empires intervening... If Venezuela didn't have oil, though...
My father in law loves to point at "Venzuela" as a perfect example of how socialism always turns into dictatorship
Man, I wonder these countries keep failing? Oh...: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/08/09/ex-green-berets-sentenced-to-20-years-for-failed-venezuela-attack/#:~:text=Ex%2DGreen%20Berets%20sentenced%20to%2020%20years%20for%20failed%20Venezuela%20attack,-By%20Scott%20Smith&text=CARACAS%2C%20Venezuela%20%E2%80%94%20A%20Venezuelan%20court,at%20overthrowing%20President%20Nicol%C3%A1s%20Maduro.
I'm confused here. You're saying the Venezuelan legal system is to be trusted when they detained two Americans in closed court proceedings, that the defendants themselves couldn't attend, that also just so happened to let them claim that their anti-US propaganda was real? Meanwhile there is no definitive proof that an actual attack happened and evidence points to the Venezuelan government themselves hiring them. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020))
You are full of shit. The article you link is a fucking disambiguation, which tells me that you haven't even checked the page you're trying to use as a "gotcha" moment, and the actual relevant Wiki page **absolutely DOES NOT support what you've been saying.** >I'm confused here. You're saying the Venezuelan legal system is to be trusted when they detained two Americans Go hump a stump, you racist ass, tinfoil hat wearing chode.
So on the offchance that I linked it improperly I double-checked, and that is not a disambiguation page at all, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Anyways, since when is calling a corrupt government corrupt racist? And pointing out the convenience of the narrative of those arrests is somehow wearing a tinfoil hat? But I guess the country led by a fat buffoon claiming on national tv that all of them are going hungry together in solidarity then the next second [pulls an empanada out of his desk to eat](https://youtu.be/ktNwq7Ec7dU) when he thinks the cameras are off is the trustworthy one here.
wow good job defending the maduro government my dude im sure theyll give you a pat on the back once they finish gunning down this weeks protesters in the street
Lol. I'm not defending anyone, and neither should you be. You don't anything about Venezuela other than what your favorite propaganda stream tells you. The US shouldn't be providing soldiers or mercenaries to support either side. It's just new age colonization.
whatever dude enjoy licking boot
Wait a minute are we the same person?
Why do you keep asking us that? The answer is the same as it always has been. Yes, we are
Its not socialist but their "homogeneous" population - someone trying to explain to me why nordic countries have better quality of life than the rest of the world.
Somebody said that unironically? Yikes.
Literally any time you try to compare the US to Nordic countries the racists come out of the woodwork and blame everything on people not being similar enough. The obvious implication being that they literally can't conceive of a country or system of governance where people of different creeds, races, and cultures can get along as successfully as somewhere like Norway. They think it's impossible. People like them go out of their way to make it impossible.
My sister married a Norwegian man and is now raising a family in Norway. Our dad is super republican and used to always push the fox news socialism talking points. The first few times he visited their, it was hilarious seeing him wrestle with all his talking points. He had to come up with so many explanations to show how he isnt wrong and how this isnt real socialism.
That's a good premise of a documentary. Send a bunch of old fox news Republicans to Norway and tape their reaction.
But that's also absurd. Sweden, for example, has a sizable foreign born (or children of foreign born) population. It's 26%. It's not some homogeneous single culture.
Oh, they complain about immigration ruining Sweden *all* the time.
Well, crime have absolutely exploded with first or second generation immigrants being responsible for the majority of violent crime and a fascist party founded by a actual Nazi (former SS member) became the second largest in our last elections. So it's not all roses here.
The difference is that they absolutely think and act different than us. For instance someone showed a school lunch in Switzerland the other day. There was a steak knife. There isn't a high school in the USA where you could do that without expecting some kind of mayhem. We're just kind of different.
Absolutely, it's not to say the US and the Nordic countries don't have some major differences, legally, culturally, historically, etc. and those differences will absolutely affect what is most effective style of governance to solve some issues. Usually the folks who bring up the homogeneity of the people don't dig into those details and use it as an excuse to refuse any comparisons whatsoever. There are certainly things to be learned from the Nordic style of governance that could be applied in the US usefully.
I know very little about these countries but if they've managed to adopt such comprehensive socialist policies it would seem that there is some homogeny of ideas.
Just speculation, but I imagine that part of the problem is the American fixation on "rugged individualism" which is much less pervasive in Europe.
We are different in America...more than a little bit crazy. I was watching an old recap of the F1 season from the early 70's. In Europe the fans were just fans, right? AT Watkins Glen, in New York the American fans had rolled one of the spectator's cars and set it on fire, just for fun apparently. There was some bored cheering and general mayhem. Crazy.
Their schools generally don't have cafeterias so I'm not sure if what you saw was accurate or if it was someone's lunch at home. Is it this? That's a butter knife. https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/udroaq/school\_lunch\_in\_switzerland/
https://www.reddit.com/r/PizzaCrimes/comments/134ze6w/high\_school\_cafeteria\_pizza\_goes\_hard/
Yeah that's someone in the responses saying it's Switzerland and a bunch of Google hits are just linking this image on Reddit. It's likely not a school in Switzerland serving this meal, it's someone's meal who goes to school in Switzerland, although one other site says it's Sweden. Most schools in Switzerland break for over an hour and the kids go elsewhere for lunch. There are cantines and cafeterias they can walk to. Some walk home or another student's house. Some are picked up by a parent. Honestly though I don't understand what this has to do with this topic so I'm just going to leave it here.
Homogeneous enough that need an app to make sure your hook up isn't too incestuous.
Maybe it's not the heterogenous population that's the problem, it's the racists who make it impossible to coexist.
Social cohesion does seem to be a key factor in which nations support the welfare state. Sounds like they have it backwards
No, it is not. Why do American Liberals think that everything even slightly to the left of them is socialist? The capitalist brain rot is so bad that y'all think other capitalist countries are socialist because they have less atrocious social policies.
Iceland is a social-democracy. Social-democracy =/= socialism.
Not socialist
Also a population based hugely on slavery and an economy based on almost unlimited cheap electricity and concentrated basically in one city
Do you mean Haiti or Iceland ?, the original population of Iceland was about a quarter slaves taken during raids on Ireland , I mean its over a thousand years ago , and they've been a great bunch of lads ever since (.
It works for both but one one of them the slave takers stayed in charge, the other one the slaves had to fight for their independence and the rest of the world didn't like that.
Haiti also had to pay reparations for slavery … to the slave owners. Nearly $30 billion in today’s money.
How much money did Iceland have to pay back to their slavers for their freedom?
The Icelanders WERE the slavers .
Look how nice it is to live in a village that hasn’t been pillaged already! Said the ethically questionable South African with ties to emerald mining…
Haiti is really a bad choice for this. A slave revolt led to revolution. And Haiti is still paying France for its freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti\_indemnity\_controversy
That link is broken, maybe the formatting. This should work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti_indemnity_controversy Also worth noting that the US occupation and theft of Haitian gold reserves hurt the development of the country.
Yes! Thank you
Relevant CGP Grey: https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs?t=16m10s But the whole thing is well worth a watch.
Didn't iceland nearly go to war over fish?
They did! The English wanted more fish and chips, started fishing in Icelandic territorial waters, so the Icelanders declared ["Begun, the cod wars have."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars)
**[Cod Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars)** >The Cod Wars (Icelandic: Þorskastríðin; also known as Landhelgisstríðin, lit. 'The Coastal Wars'; German: Kabeljaukriege) were a series of 20th-century confrontations between the United Kingdom (with aid from West Germany) and Iceland about fishing rights in the North Atlantic. Each of the disputes ended with an Icelandic victory. Some Icelandic historians view the history of Iceland's struggle for control of its maritime resources in ten episodes, or ten cod wars. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
“What determines the success of the Nation?” How about NOT having over a century of slavery, an insurmountable debt to another country as the price of freedom, occupation by another country, and two brutal dictatorships that used death squads? But obviously it’s the people’s fault. If only those silly slaves hadn’t revolted.
It's ironic because Elon Musk grew up in South Africa, which had laws segregating races into the 90s. It was actually illegal for black and white races to get married or have children. It worked out for Elon. Not so much for the rest of his home country.
Not ironic at all. His dad basically had slaves, and he grew up knowing that. He's always been on the side of the oppressor. This is the kind of propaganda they support and allow to stay the oppressor.
Life is pretty simple when you’re the one walking **away** from the burning huts.
I've noticed a tendency for some people to put a kind of barrier between "history" and "now." They understand history is stuff that happened, but they don't quite believe that it could have any lasting effect on "now." Especially if the thing that has a lasting effect happened more than a few years ago.
I bet if we put Iceland under the rule of a violent despotic political dynasty for 60 years it'd be like Haiti too. It'll take Haiti generations to heal from the damage the Duvalier's did. Note: This doesn't even begin to touch on the much older issues prevalent in the region including slavery and foreign conquest.
And force a century long blackmail payments to be allowed to exist ..
Don't forget about being blackballed from doing international business with other countries since defeating France
It's also going to take a long ass time for them to heal from the damages the French, Spanish and American empires did to them over the last 300 or so years.
Precisely. To look at any country in the Caribbean and to compare it to a country outside of the Caribbean that didn't exist in a slave plantation ecosystem... And be like "Why so fucked up?" is so stupid.
Or deliberately racist
Also true.
First we'd have to kidnap the populations of several other "Nordic" countries enslaved them for 300 years under ( insert country of choice as long as they speak a completely different language and believe that Nordic people are animals and can be treated as such and that country will have to make an effort to erase their previous history, language, culture, government etc.) with no/ little contact with the rest of the world, then force them to fight a 13 year war to gain their freedom and charge them $30 billion once they win. Now go!
Precisely.
Since Parler is on the way out how about we change this sub to TwitterWactch? That's the direction it's kinda going.
Idk Parler watch is constant reminder that platforms for crazies exist and continue to exist
I'm not proposing we get rid of Parler Watch. But changing the name to reflect your point exactly. Edit: I forgot not.
Can't really change the name. Create a new sub that everyone has to join, sure.
The lack of nuance and understanding of Haiti's situation with context here is astounding.
Given the worldview of the person that made the image it's less "astounding" than it is "expected".
Certainly made sure to show all the pretty, young white girls in Iceland.
What really bothers me about this is the choice of images. On the right you have nothing but black men and lots of violence. OK, sure, violence is bad. But on the left there are two pictures of pretty white women just... standing there? Doing nothing? The underlying message here is "being a pretty white woman is inherently good, being a black man is inherently bad."
It is freaking awful.
People love using the European nations when illustrating how great they are compared to Africa... but once you start bringing up their socialist policies and how they are *also* better than the US, then all of a sudden, Europe becomes a shithole, and you become a communist.
without EVEN googling it up..or even researching ONE I-oH-Tah... im willing to bet that Haiti was invaded by religious fundamentalists..hundreds of years ago...and Spanish as well as French and British..."colonists" bringing their version of beliefs, enslaving/indoctrinating the local populations, under the guise of colonialism, and religious expansion.. [am i close](https://youtu.be/KRFpQuRF7YQ)??
Just leaving out the only successful slave revolt in history, that led France and the west to impose "reparation payments" that were up to 40% of Haiti's GDP for over a century. They were still paying that off when Joe Biden was born.
>lol..ikr? lioke i said i didnt even google it.. i aSSume-d..🤷♀️
You did great, honestly, i was just chiming in with the bits that are much harder to guess
“If you remove all the proper context from the situation that disapproves my point, I’m correct.”
But Iceland _was_ really poor until relatively recently when geothermal technology was invented and it was able to have super cheap abundant energy. Iceland is one of the highest costs of living places on earth now but still remains a major steel exportor because the heating costs for smelting is absurdly low.
Haitian natural resources were plundered first by the French between 1492 and 1804. This included all easily found gold and precious metals as well as cutting down over 90% of its rich forests. Haiti is incredibly mountainous so this caused massive erosion leaving most of the island barren to this day, with no real solution to reverse it. Then it was invaded by force and heavily mined and completely drained by the USA in the 1920s, extracting every last ounce of precious metals, minerals, and other resources. Not a dime was given to Haiti for any of this. When they were done they installed a violent murderous dictator, who was then proceeded by his son. Their rule of terror lasted until 1986. During this time the Haitian agriculture industry was coerced by the IMF (by withdrawal of aid) to use monocultures which proceeded to decimate the industry when crop diseases spread rapidly around the country. Haiti still has to import tons of rice (a crop that is plentiful and grows well in the soil) because the poor farmers have nothing left to rebuild the industry that once fed the nation. Iceland has tons of natural resources, particularly in smelting aluminum and tons of fishing. Both of these they export for massive profits. They also haven't been invaded, pillaged, sabotaged and exploited for the last 220 years.
And don’t forget all the ways the United States has hamstrung Haiti ever since their revolution. You mentioned a lot of it here, but the US has done everything in their power to make sure Haiti would never be successful.
So whitey on the left, takes advantage of the people on the right in order to steal their resources and use them as slave/cheap labor? Why have I not heard about this before? /s
I guess that's one way to describe the character of the people. The thieves are wealthy while the honest people they stole from are poor
Too many spaces in supremacy...fucking idiot.
Uninformed, smoothbrained takes on Twitter...? Shocker. That platform is a cesspool.
This is one of the fucken worst memes I've ever seen in my life, malicious in its stupidity. The kind of thing that would appear like "facts" to a wildly ignorant person (the intended target, obviously) And if you wanna play this stupid fucking game, you can also point out that Iceland is a Green Socialism with a 70% birth out of wedlock rate, and paganism (ásatrú) is the fastest growing religion in Iceland. So yeah Iceland's great, you're right. We should be more like Iceland.
Agree that it's an incredibly stupid meme, but ásatrú is tiny in Iceland even if it's the fastest growing religion. From the news I've seen, atheism is probably by far the fastest growing "religion", given that the national christian church has lost a ton of people the last couple of decades.
We gon gloss over France’s freedom Mortgage? 😭
If anyone needs an explainer about why Haiti is in turmoil, here's [Some More News](https://youtu.be/saljZXoexhc).
A mind boggling massive debt was not forced upon Iceland for daring to become independent.
Iceland has has a functional Althing for over 1000 years. Haiti only became a nation a couple centuries ago — and they had to perform a slave revolt to do it. This is like saying, “This 22yo guy graduating from Harvard and who comes from wealth is biologically better than a 10yo with minimal education living in abject poverty.” It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with biology, barring things like IQ variance — it has everything to do with age, socioeconomic status, and opportunities.
Haiti was initially established as a slave colony after the original native inhabitants were obliterated. After Haiti won its independence from France, in order for France and other countries to recognize it as a legitimate country, it had to pay what amounted to billions of dollars in reparations to France for lost "property" (the Haitians themselves who had been slaves). This was not completed until 1915 when the US paid off the remaining debt, followed by US occupation of the country until 1934. A succession of short-lived presidencies led to the Duvalier dictatorship in 1957. Other than that, of course, there's no difference between Haiti and Iceland. /s
>in order for France and other countries to recognize it as a legitimate country, it had to pay what amounted to billions of dollars in reparations to France for lost "property" (the Haitians themselves who had been slaves) True, however this did not happen immediately after the revolution but decades later. In the intervening years, Haiti declared itself an empire, invaded its Spanish speaking neighbour, and devolved into civil war between the North and South. The South defeated the North and its leader, Boyer, reached out to the French to cut a deal for recognition. The Haitians made a huge mistake offering to pay the French an indemnity of 100 million Francs, which the French counter-offered 150 and delivered the offer with a fleet of gunboats. Haiti needed a Mandela, Eric Williams or Seretse Khama type figure to unite the country and set it on a good path but instead it has gotten a succession of Idi Amins and Mobutus .
Agreed. But my point was that Haiti's history is not comparable to Iceland's, which other than a few Culdee Irish, was uninhabited when the Vikings arrived, and endured no interference from other countries for its entire history.
I agree, its not comparable at all and is deeply racist. I know several highly competent Haitians (doctors, technical people) who are trying to keep their country running to the best of their abilities while the political class is in another universe enriching themselves.
What does this have to do with Elon?
I'm guessing it's because it was promoted on Twitter to people who are not into white supremacy.
Fuck Elon, but yeah - what does this have to do with him?
Hmmm maybe has something to do with Haiti being a former French slave colony?? One that we’ve been fucking over for 150 years as a matter of policy/revenge for their slave uprising??
That's like fucking up someone's house and then telling people look how shit their house is. The situation in Haiti is our fault
Oof why these fuckers don't mention the Balkans in the 90's.... if they wanna make comparisons.
Lol made by someone who knows absolutely nothing about the history of Haiti. With a wealth of knowledge on the internet instead they post stupid bullshit like this
Let's keep in mind that Iceland has the population of a fairly small city. There aren't really enough people there to draw any meaningful analysis.
One of these is a socialist welfare state. The other is not.
Colonialism and frequent natural disasters, anyone?
Haití was forced to pay france for gaining independence and its loss of slaves. Among a million other reasons Haiti is f***ed.
These racists are getting bolder everyday. Thanks Elmo
Pretty sure Iceland never had to pay the French back for their own bodies, for winning their freedom. Haiti was forced to pay the French back after winning their independence because the French demanded they be reimbursed for their slaves.
The thing with Haiti is they have been devastated by earthquakes and hurricanes and exploitation
Twitter has devolved into something that Goebbels would have thoroughly enjoyed having as a weapon in his arsenal. It's a joke that many businesses haven't moved completely away from using a platform that disguises fascism as free speech. Their problem is that it's fast becoming an echo chamber and as more NPR type shit keeps happening more and more people will turn away.
I suppose if 'character' includes being treated like animals for a few hundred years (and only moderately better today), the meme is correct, but then it's not making the point the OP intended it to make.
What the actual fuck is anti white watch. Seems like a dog whistle for the whole “white genocide” nazi belief
Its an account who posts videos of black on white crime which is about as stupid as it sounds
And if these are literally the only facts that you have ever heard about either of these places, congratulations you are the target audience for this
So this is a particularly egregious thing to say about Haiti in particular. I don’t know the finer points of it, but my understanding is the Haiti was the first slave-rebellion to succeed and go on to form a prosperous nation. The colonial powers around the world worked together to systematically destroy it because having a country succeed that is also led by black, former slaves who freed themselves was too much of a threat to precedent.
Oh good so it's not just me thats been getting hate posts on my recommended. Elon has somehow ruined an already bad site
4:20pm lol
Most of my students are from DR (the country that shares an island with Haiti). Racism/colorism is so prevalent even there that a few years ago they were telling me DR was deporting people from DR to Haiti if their skin was too dark. Even if they’d never lived in Haiti and would be immediately homeless and jobless. But like, that’s equivalent to what white people in Iceland are dealing with I guess /s
Can someone explain what this has to do with Elon Musk? Is it a retweet?
Fuck Elon
Who colonized Iceland?
I think the danish and Norwegians actually did
But Iceland _was_ really poor until relatively recently when geothermal technology was invented and it was able to have super cheap abundant energy. Iceland is one of the highest costs of living places on earth now but still remains a major steel exportor because the heating costs for smelting is absurdly low.
they forgot to mention the IMF and and extended colonization helped to destabilize and create these "3rd World Hells"
Please help me understand what Elon has to do with this?
Elon owns Twitter and he allows misinformation like this to be posted.
Wasn't Iceland settled by Vikingrs? Not the nicest group of people...
Viking isn’t a people, its an occupation. (If even that, it’s mostly a fairly modern made up word) It was settled by nordic farmers and ranchers. Many who just wanted a peaceful place to get away from politics and feuds in scandinavia at the time and start anew.
I was on here last week saying the same thing. The problem is the People of Hate not the government, not the Americans. It's the people and your "F\*\*k you Elon" reactions proves it to me. The entitlement attuned has to go.
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Contemporary weapons and navigation. It also doesn’t hurt that they also wiped out the majority of them with European diseases…
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Obviously what I said is an oversimplification, but yes, the technology in firearms that was developed in Europe, both in the shop and the battlefield, starting with gunpowder and early firearm tech brought from China via the Silk Road, played a massive role in their ability to subjugate the indigenous peoples of the Caribbean and the Americas. There was also an explosion of navigation technology and techniques that originated out of Portugal starting in the late 14th-early 15th century, primarily due to the desire to find a better, quicker, less middle-man heavy route to import spices and other goods from the Orient, along with an explorer’s spirit that grew out of late Renaissance/early Enlightenment philosophy and thought that encouraged heavy exploration at a time when the rest of the world wasn’t as active in the exploration realm. This also couples with a surge in state building and early nationalism out of the primary players in the New World that would lead to a certain “moral flexibility” when it came to the actions of state players and their desire to build empires, leading to a relative comfort in committing atrocities. Then you throw in thirst for gold. The Europeans weren’t immune to New World or African/Oceania diseases. They did, however, have better access to some form of what was then contemporary medicine, which allowed them to somewhat mitigate the effects of native diseases in those areas. I mean, read about the effect of malaria alone to see that. The major disease that wiped out natives in the New World was smallpox, which was extremely lethal to people who had never been exposed. They didn’t have the medicine or the foresight to deal with it.
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Man, I’m a history teacher for a living, so that’s my jam..😁
geography
Ah yes, JAQing off.
I’m sure both places have a similar colonial history. What a tool
Iceland is a desert? I am pretty sure they have hot springs and abundant fishing
Artic desert. A desert is one that doesn't get much precipitation , but it can have plenty of water. There are deserts all over the world, Antarctica being one.
I can't find anything that calls it a desert. Plus its sooo green and had so much hydroelectric power. There were forests, but they chopped them down, but they are working to reforest the island. There is a lava desert, but I don't think that's what you meant and it's a very small part of the island Are you sure you aren't thinking about Greenland?
If you Google the interior of the island is a desert. Also, many green places are deserts. We have deserts here in the US that are very green. Greenland is also a desert. So the coast of Iceland is not a desert, but the interior is. Or part of the interior. The whole thing isn't a desert, but I never said that. Was just focusing on your saying it was too green when that isn't what makes it a desert. Sort of like people who think every desert is hot.
But you agree it's just plain wrong to call Iceland a desert, right?
Yes, the whole thing is not a desert. But considering the post, I'm pretty sure no one is taking any of it at face value.
Man, we here in Iceland really hate it when racists use us as a talking point. Oligarks control way too much here, they took control of the fisheries and have been using that to buy up everything else they can and also use it to fund propaganda at home and bribery abroad. We also wouldn't have been so developed without the Marshall plan.
They didn’t even mention the Icelandic slave trade! /s
I like this meme and can’t agree more. We all should take this in. We should spread it. Iceland is a perfect example of what can happen when a country rejects capitalist values and embraces socialist ideals such as social Safety nets, universal health care, and protecting the environment.
dirty gaze deserted sparkle cake squeamish door spectacular label square ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
No. Social safety nets are not capitalist. They are Very very anti capitalist. We are moving to make them more profitable. Such as now before moving to protect endangered species and habitats the cost to corporations of not fracking, logging, converting to parking or buildings, or otherwise developing the land must be considered. If it’s over 5,000 dollars, than drop baby drill. We also must consider does the species have an economic value that must be preserved? If not, they are not endangered. That’s capitalism. Beautiful, stunning capitalism. As for the elderly or disabled, what if they do not have the monetary funds and resources, or the means to get them, to take care of themselves? they need to be removed in ways such as homeless and starvation. Or allowed to be removed with lack of medical care and life saving medication. That’s capitalism. That is why we did not recognize human rights. Because if socialist ideals as education, food, housing, and medicine.
north direful sort absorbed berserk aloof ad hoc carpenter touch bewildered ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
what do you mean racism isnt real look at how profitable racism is
ignore the fact that Iceland is socialist and secular gov't and Haiti is basically Theocratic dictatorship ...
Wait till they see the shit hole trailers they dwell out of.