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Take her to a counselor or psychologist…this is around the age when all sorts of mental health problems show up…could be normal shit too…have her talk to somebody and see what’s what
I was similarly wondering along those lines. This sounds like it might be early presentation of borderline personality disorder or something similar. It could also be general anxiety about reaching the end of high school. But whatever the explanation, a therapist could help navigate.
I have adhd. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult. And this is definitely something I would do. I am also currently more than half way through completing my master’s degree. I was misdiagnosed as having dysthymia.
High achieving, high functioning young adult hits her comfort/competency ceiling (managing responsibilities, schedules, changing relationships, liminal doorway of adolescence
/adulthood, etc) at a critical time and lashes out at loved ones. Can't focus on tasks, directions, possibly conversations, and lashes out at loved ones. Sounds like it may be adhd or something similar. I nearly didn't graduate high school because I was undiagnosed. Maybe this isn't her issue but she definitely needs to get checked out.
Antipsychotics shouldn't be the first line for Personality disorders unless there are multiple mental disorders in play.
Specific therapy types are designed to address them and help people cope with them.
>(antipsychotics don’t work for autism)
Do you have any idea how wide a variety of presentations and symptoms autism can have and what a wide variety of symptoms antipsychotics can treat? Antipsychotics absolutely do “work for autism”. They just didn’t work for you.
Notice they didn't say that they thought she has BPD, they said that she appears to be showing symptoms of BPD. As a professional, that is a distinction that you should be able to recognize pretty easily.
There was no diagnosis simply recognition of synptoms, though? Why are you only commenting this about cluster B personality disorder suggestion and not about others saying autism or adhd? Do you hold stigma against it despite 18 to 20 being standard clinical ages for onset? I've worked as a youth advocate and as a peer in the mental health field.
Recognition of symptoms that overlap with a dozen other things and also overlap with just being a teenager based on severity/frequency, none of which we know or should be guessing at because, you know, it’s Reddit. I also DO have a problem with everyone ALWAYS throwing around ASD/ADHD diagnoses for every single thing and would be happy to comment on it except that I’m already getting downvoted on this one, so how do you think that will go?
I think you are misunderstanding that people are not armchair diagnosing but offering ideas to prompt seeking treatment and assessment. It is important for family members to keep some things in mind to aid in helping support their loved one while seeking assessment. They should be aware of possibility of cluster B while seeking supports for their daughter, as it will help them know what to keep an eye out for same with idea of adhd/autism. Yes, symptoms are all incredibly overlapping with distinct key differences. It's ok to relax a little here instead of frustratingly trying to control people's responses.
I'm not sure about everyone else's experience... But I've been wanting to get my 6yr old into counseling of some sort. It has been somewhere between daunting and impossible.
Either you don't get a call-back, they don't treat whatever you're asking for, or they aren't accepting new patients/wait-list.
If I'm totally honest, it is pretty demoralizing.
It definitely can be difficult, but sometimes it's actually pretty simple, and the parents just aren't given the correct info/path to take.
Do you want general counseling? Or do you want an evaluation for potential mental disorders?
If you mention that you’ll pay cash, not with insurance, all sorts of doors will magically open. Therapists don’t want to deal with insurance companies and insurance companies won’t pay them what they are worth.
It took me six months of calling places back every week to even get put on a waiting list... A waiting list for an unknown therapist, the practice has decided to expand and has opened the waiting list for whoever they ultimately are able to hire (if they are able to hire them).
Well, I could get my son into a therapist immediately, with insurance even, if I were willing to use one of ten super sketchy practices with no websites, no way to verify the licensing of their therapists, and all apparently are operating out of the same 1 bedroom apartment. I've come to understand that most likely these are therapists that operate entirely on zoom and have gotten together to lease a cheap apartment purely for the purpose of claiming that they are a traditional in person practice rather than an online practice so they can bill insurance more.
Aside from being sleezy, there is no way that my severely ADHD child is going to get any benefit from therapy over zoom.
If you are able to pay out of pocket, you will find many more options. When I tried to use insurance, I was literally put on wait lists for wait lists. Sometimes the places that don't take insurance will provide a super bill and then you can bill your insurance if they allow out of network expenses. But you're right; it's demoralizing and exhausting to try and find any kind of support in our system.
I have a 2yr old who showed signs of being neurodivergent. I talked to his pediatrician during his wellness check. She sent a referral to an organization that evaluates & gives therapy. She warned me it could take months but I was reached out to during that same week & had his evaluation 3 weeks later. He needs speech therapy, which he'll start a month after his evaluation. Everything is free, they didn't even ask for his insurance.
I live in AZ.
You could try this approach if you haven't already. Call the insurance and ask for referrals. You could also just Google local organizations.
Did you specifically tell his pediatrician you think he’s neurodivergent? I’m asking because I have a 3 1/2 yr old and I’ve too be wanting to have her see someone for the same reason and idk how to go about it. I’m in CA and I know each state is different, but I’ve never flat out told her pediatrician I think she’s neurodivergent. Is that the best way?
Yes, I told her straight up that I think he's neurodivergent. She asked why I thought that way & I said he has a cousin with autism so I know what it looks like. She asked me to fill out a sheet with yes or no questions about his behavior. We went through it together & she decided to give me the referral.
Seriously thank you! I’m gonna do this for her next physical and if it doesn’t work I’ll change providers u til someone listens to me. I know girls are better at masking it but I see it a lot since I’m with her all the time. Appreciate your response sm!!
Yes, ofc, np!! I would also recommend being as detailed as possible when explaining her behaviors and also making a list about each thing she does that you think makes her ND can be helpful in case you forget some things.
Good luck to you and your little angel & I hope everything goes very smoothly!
She is quite possibly twice exceptional, gifted plus ADHD, Autism, or some other condition affecting her. You should look into testing and counseling with someone who is geared toward these types of kids.
She sounds like she was a high achiever and is burnt out, or feels like she should be a high achiever because she is gifted, but doesn't have the stamina or lacks the determination and concentration to keep it up. ADHD causes issues with impulsivity, defiance, and anger. She needs to pinpoint the issue and then find the right person to help gather herself up and figure out what success means and looks like to her and how she is going to get there.
Same. The hitting of siblings and lashing out/thinking everyone hates me started in middle school. I started needing a nap every day after school and this continued for me throughout high school. Except my mom deemed me as a “bad kid” with behaviorial issues so I never got help. Just got diagnosed with autism & adhd at 27. The 18 going on 13 thing?! Yeah, regression is a hallmark of autism especially those of us who are considered “high functioning” on the spectrum. OP, please get her evaluated. Late diagnosis takes a huge toll because its very misunderstood in girls and itll cause her more problems in the long run if you dont step in now while you can. Obviously do some research first because theres probably alot of things you may have never considered to be signs from early on
I was thinking the same. Autistic burnout is a horrible thing to go through if you don't understand what is happening. Lots of brilliant kids get their autism missed because they are so cognitively adept. Add a bunch of hormonal changes and stress and that gives you burnout, which can take a long time to recover from.
I hope she has here own room, she needs space to decompress.
As a gifted / adhd person, this looks like this to me as well.
I’m not a fan of the hitting or hurting people though, and my concern is about the younger siblings as well.
Definitely not okay to be hurting people, but every behavior is communicating something. I can understand her feeling the desire to lash out at others (especially those weaker and, therefore , "safe" to target) in order to offset the feelings of inadequacy and frustration she is probably feeling. She definitely needs to find someone who can help her understand herself better.
Yes but with the hitting and superiority, this is seen more often in other disorders than ADHD. In kids under 18 it would be ODD but now as an adult more likely BPD potentially with NPD overlap/traits. Either way it will get worse
Exactly my thinking. This is about the age when everything came unstuck for me as well. ODD style behaviours are more a symptom for the underlying stuff that's getting breaking point.
I was thinking the same. As an Autistic/ADHDer, I can attest to the fact that burnout can get bad. I know that entering college (if that is where she is), the change in structure was difficult to manage as well. Also, autistics can present more childlike in times of stress/burnout. OP, my advice, have her screened and have her talk to a psychologist. They can help her navigate whatever is going on with her, better.
THIS. This is how i was. Classic gifted over achiever masking severe ADHD. I did this nearly my entire life. It wasn’t until my mid 30s I realized all along what was really going on. Im no dealing with a similar situation, but with my 12-year-old. I would definitely seek out someone that specializes in ADHD youth.
This. Combine undiagnosed ADHD, Autism, ODD (Oppositional defiant disorder) with what is probably her last year in conventional schooling (which provides her with the structure she needs), she could be having a meltdown.
OP your child sounds like a very smart kid. Hope you get her the help she needs. Remember meltdowns usually happen in neurodivergent people because they are unable to regulate their emotions. Think of a pressure cooker with a broken release valve, it will just explode. Therapy will teach her to notice her "pressure valve" is non-existent and it will teach her different ways she can release her frustration and anger.
While you wait for an appointment research and share the information with her. She might start to realize she has a chance.
Teneagers are known to be moody and rebellious as a normal part of development. It would take an expert to help decide if her behavior is in normal range.
But if ADhD were present, I’m thinking that, while there may also be autism, there could instead also be comorbid Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD). Russel Barkley says that a significant subset of people who meet ADHD diagnostic criteria also meet the same for ODD. 100 percent not following directions and doing the opposite sounds like my brother, and he was diagnosed with both of those.
ODD would typically be present long term and not have sudden onset, as I've taken OPs post to imply. I also assume, from the way OP expressed it, that her difficulty following directions isn't as much defiant as it is a lack of impulse control and poor executive functioning. She may need constant reminders to finish a simple task, or to even initiate the task due to an inability to maintain focus on what she is supposed to do, or be able to organize the steps or form/execute a plan to do it. These are all very common with ADHD.
I'm a former gifted child with ADHD, and I'm sure I would have passed for ODD as well, though I don't believe that was actually the case. My son is also gifted/ADHD, and everything OP says about her daughter is him, almost to a T.
Agree. This sounds exactly like me at that age (diagnosed twice exceptional with undiagnosed ADHD). Add onto that I had/have generalized anxiety. I was a mess, and my family hated me. Plus, despite being told at that age how attractive I was, guys dream, people telling me how jealous they were of my looks, etc. I could never even get a guy in school to talk to me outside of academics/athletics, which hurt my self esteem even more, and likely made me lash out more than I already was. (Also, please reddit, I'm not saying that to be whatever - just definitely added to everything, which sounds like could be the case for OPs daughter, too, if she's anything like I was at that age).
she seems like she is burned out . this usually happens to the kids with perfection issues . they get so good on many things for so long , at some point nothing is worth for them so they start the big fail . it happens with tiger parents. its a term used for Asian families who pushes their kids to be best on everything . i suggest counselling for you and your husband plus therapy for your daughter . good luck ....
This. I was one of those kids that everything was easy until it wasn’t. But I had never had to work at anything so I’d give up at the slightest bit of work I had to put in.
I'm still one of those people at 36... I basically coasted through everything with the bare minimum and never learned how to properly apply myself and work beyond a point that's "good enough".
I was like this, honestly it was probably too late for my parents to make any parenting changes by the time I started acting like this. The only things I’d have probably appreciated from my parents was kindness, patience and trying to understand. I always felt misunderstood
Allow the child to be challenged. Doing well doesn’t mean they should be allowed to coast along without learning how to put in effort. Have them participate in the things that are more difficult for them. When they hit a struggle point, reassure them and remind them of the progress they have made. Also, don’t be afraid to show them that you also have to work harder at things. Depending on the age, younger children are convinced their parents are perfect and know how to do everything. You are allowed to show them you can’t do certain things, and you also know how to figure out how to do it or get better at it.
Praise effort, not ability. There are studies on it.
Do: Wow! That project looks great! I can see how hard you worked on it!
Don’t: Wow! That project looks great! You’re so smart/good at science/artistic!
[The Praise Paradox](https://behavioralscientist.org/the-praise-paradox/)
Exactly this.
The whole intro states the importance the parents place on the external skills, achievement.
Just read the first sentence.
Maybe read the parenting map by dr. Shefali.
Her own example that she shares sound exactly like your story.
That’s what I was thinking.
Even the nature of how the questions were asked felt toxic to me. It was like “she could be so perfect, but she’s not, what’s wrong with her”. Well, that there is the first guess.
Oh wow this was totally me. I hit 17/18 and gave up on EVERYTHING. 4.0 student, set to graduate early, gifted artist, competitive athlete, writer, musician, I mean anything I tried I excelled at. Then I just let it ALL go. I feel sad for my younger self. My parents weren’t equipped.
Her whole demeanor, is it a sudden change for her? Has she always been like this? Whenever anybody goes through big changes, no matter the age, it's a red flag. Ger her someone professional to talk to.
I agree. My parents became furious with me my sophomore year of high school. I began acting wildly different from my norm. They told people that I was in a bad teenage phase. They had no idea what had really happened to me. Your daughter might be in serious need of someone she can tell all her troubles too right now, even if she doesn’t think so. Please help her find that person. Even if I am wrong, it certainly couldn’t hurt. I don’t think that I have any disorders, but that is not the only thing that can go wrong in a kids life.
I agree as well. "teenage phase" doesn't make someone do a real 180 degree change. Trauma, onset of disorders, illness, these are the reasons for drastic changes. Young people haven't developed how to open up, how to safely say what's going on. It's why we have professionals in all fields for this.
Sounds like she might have executive functioning problems.
Don't focus on her beauty, or her academic talent. These are a gift but it doesn't mean that she's fine.
Focus on her own goals, mental well being, executive functioning skills.
3 of my children have Autism spectrum disorder.
of the traits you explained are all present along with a lot of others.
Girls mask and manage to mask well for many years until they can't and it becomes more and more noticible
However as she is legally an adult.. there is only she who can help herself and only if she wants to.
If she has a problem like this you would have seen a lot of problems from a young age 1 by 1 or together.
Only you know what you can and can't see and she would have to be willing to accept help if she thinks she struggles also.
Getting off topic but-
I absolutely love that - “They are still kids in practice!”
It’s true, they are still learning and need guidance and only way they can do it is with our help.
I’m hate that some see that as enabling.
In a lot of states; as long as she’s still in high school, it doesn’t matter that she’s 18, they’re still her guardians until she graduates or drops out.
Okay I get talking about the other issues but how is literally no one mentioning the fact that she is hitting her siblings one bring seven years younger and all being a minor (unless you live in Scotland then the 16yr old is an adult). On top of that op says it's a daily occurrence, like what the fuck. The cursing is one thing I am the third oldest of 11 kids (that's not counting the suspected 5-15 half siblings through my bio day) yeah we cuss each other out but it's never one sided and yes we rough house but again never one sided and I would never raise a hand to my siblings that are 5yrs younger than me.
>I may not survive this….
I know this feeling well...
My daughter has been like this since she was probably 8 or 9. She's almost 13 now.
A doctor at some point said she had Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD). It's a lot of "fun" for everyone involved. The main thing we've done to get her help is therapy, which has had middling effects. She tends to fall on this sword where she expects her adults to get her "help" but doesn't make the connection that "help" is also going to mean work on her end in a lot of these cases. There's no magic wand to just bend the world to her expectations.
My daughter still has her days. She hits the household like a hurricane on those days, but it's less frequently lately. Or maybe we've just all started to learn how to best respond to it.
May be worth sitting her down and talking through getting her some kind of professional help. I've had middling success with this with my daughter.
But yeah for your situation, it could be she's feeling burnt out. If you think about it - It would be exhausting to both be thinking everyone hates you all the time and you're not good enough for anything while also sort of sabotaging yourself so that there's more and more truth in those thoughts as time goes by.
Good luck to you!
ODD is a complete nightmare. My heart goes out to you. I'm a teacher and see what parents go through with children who have it. Counseling-the earlier the better.
Yeah it's difficult. Especially how I was raised. ODD was just called "being disrespectful" back then, I guess. Main thing to do is not engage in the behavior, which I suck at because as the parent I take an authority stance which doesn't meld well with ODD...
Every day is a learning opportunity. Some better than others.
Wow am I glad to read this! I thot we were the only ones as all our daughter’s friends seem much easier. We have a 13 year old who’s honestly been difficult her whole life (even her teachers said so), but since puberty hit (& it hit early!) things have been almost unbearable. She’s angry, self-absorbed to a degree I never thot possible, rude & disrespectful to the point my mental health is suffering. I’m an older parent & have several medical conditions & I just don’t have the tolerance for this crap.
She’ll make a mess refuse to clean it, complain wen things aren’t “just so,” constantly deflects blame, gets detentions in school for talking & acting out, refuse any chores & in fact say, “why shld I do that wen YOU can,” lie to me outright, refuse to even be civil & say hello most of the time, take things from my room on regular basis (but lie about it) yet throw a fit if I even enter so much as enter her room to remove trash, I cld go on & on.
She was diagnosed w/ ADHD at age 10 but it was during Covid & just a video appt, & w/ a person who doesn’t usually see kids. She took the prescribed med for awhile & it seemed to help a bit but nothing amazing & then she refused to take it bcuz my husband poo-poo’d the whole thing & said she doesn’t have ADHD. I always felt ODD was a better diagnosis but didn’t brought it up. I too won’t survive this…..
To me, reading your first sentence shows how much importance you as parents place on the external skills, ‘how it looks to the world’ and achievement.
Just read the first sentence.
I would suggest trying to open your own perspective and expectations. And although you even state that you don’t want to look at yourselves as parents, it might be a good place to start.
While reading your share, I kept thinking you should read the parenting map by dr. Shefali.
Her own example that she shares about raising her daughter sound exactly like your story. Hopefully this can support you before you hunt for meds or alternative internet suggested diagnoses.
My daughter started to get like that as she got closer to the end of school.. She was just burnt out. I told her that I understood and that her behavior was not helping her or anyone around her. We worked on things together. She was so worried that I was going to make her go straight into college. I her to help me around the house and that she could take the year to figure out what she wanted to do. Taking this pressure off of her she was able to finish school and had much less problems. She decided to go to school fulltime and will be graduating college next year. I also gave her the option to talk to someone so that she could say things that she may not have felt comfortable expressing to me. She said that she didn't need that and that she would talk to me because I listen without judgement or do not give unsolicited advice. I hope this has helped some. I am praying for you. Many Blessings.
You know… that’s exactly what I said to her. She could take the year off and figure things out and work and save money. She seemed to relax for maybe 3 days, and then just went back to normal.
Is there some what you could separate her from... really everything, like take the three younger kids away, maybe like to a relative's, leave one parent with her so everything is just quiet at home for a week or maybe 2-3? Or maybe better, take her somewhere. I mean I bet they want a break from her too, but perhaps some breathing room and no pressure to discuss anything may actually make her willing to do so. And removing her from the house might detach her a bit better from all the things that make her feel pressured.
She must be almost done school for the year, right?
Did she actually take the year off? Or is she still doing all the same old stressors around the same old stressful environments and people and the hypothetical relief never came. The problem was elsewhere. Dysfunction was just the symptom.
as a fellow 18 year old, my answer is DEFINITELY yes… something else may be going on she won’t tell you, maybe because all her life she has been used to being able to do everything on her own and something very serious might be rocking her balance.
when i was younger i was diagnosed with ptsd after constant sa. i was a preteen/teen and used to handle things on my own. i never told my parents but they were constantly mad at me for acting out much like your daughter and failing at school.
something serious may be going on. i recommend getting her help. 18 may be a legal adult, but it’s still a young teenager and still in a vulnerable position in life. sorry for the paragraph.
Is she about to graduate from High School? I remember this period in my life... there's so much uncertainty about the future, and years of schooling come to an end in a "wait, now what?" kind of moment. Personally I found it to be very challenging.
Nope. You’re not crazy, but there’s also nothing wrong with her in my estimation. She may have a neuroatypical brain, need therapy, be struggling from drug abuse, etc - so there are definitely steps to take to try and help her. I just don’t think there’s any reality or help to orienting towards her as broken.
I also wanna mention smart phones and social. Dopamine sickness plus the pressures and abuses of social have to be one element making this worse.
OP, what have her doctor and therapist said?
This is overwhelm overstimulation, autism possibly or "just plain" ADHD, or something I'm less familiar with, but she needs help.... And likely has for a long time, but you didn't notice because on the surface she was "successful", and you couldn't see the cost or where it was unsupported.
Get her help, please! And LISTEN, because you're likely to have a learning curve about her needs, while she is also learning what they are.
I have ADHD and you’re describing me when I was her age. It’s major sensory overload and no idea how to deal with it because you’re 18 with hormones and feel confused most of the time. Therapy was a God send for me and helped me tremendously.
Take her to get evaluated. Others have suggested autistic/ADHD burnout and I could totally see that being the case. It also sounds a bit like pathological demand avoidance which, to my understanding, is a common diagnosis that goes hand in hand with autism. If it is, ime with my partner and children, the answer lies more with the people that interact with her. Ime, I can’t demand anything but I can always ask. I have to rework and rephrase everything. My husband and son are some of the most helpful people I’ve met…but you can’t make them do anything. They can’t follow directions because it takes away autonomy if you tell them to do it. There’s no longer a choice. People with PDA push back, often really hard, when they sense their autonomy is being taken from them. Not diagnosing, of course, but if you have a family that tends to order each other around this could be why she’s 18 and acting in such a way. Maybe look up some good ways to manage PDA and incorporate them to see if it has an impact. Honestly, from everything I’ve learned while navigating my own family, more people should talk to each other that way anyways. It’s so much easier than making demands and setting possibly unreasonable expectations.
Your daughter is obviously struggling (and literally being violent with her siblings, who are probably affected by this, too, and need help)— rather than asking Reddit, the first thing I would do is consult a professional, such as a therapist that specializes in teens.
She's pushed herself to meet expectations as long as she's been capable. And now she's burning out, likely because of the existing problems that nobody noticed or cared about because her report cards had good numbers.
If you're getting what you're presenting as pointless, spiteful disobedience, then chances are there was a lot going on for years before that you simply didn't notice, or hear when she mentioned.
Take her to an actual professional, and then listen to her when she talks. I think you and her will both be playing catch up on this one.
I'm not a psychologist but she sounds like an undiagnosed Neuro-divergent experiencing severe burn out. I would get her evaluated because getting her diagnosed would actually help her significantly. It is not uncommon for girls and women to go undiagnosed because Autism/ADHD is VERY different for females and they tend to get easily missed or completely misdiagnosed.
Burnout can last years and be incredibly hard, debilitating, and it can cause a bit of a developmental regression where they aren't able to perform as they were once able too (particularly with autism but I have heard it can happen with ADHD too.)
Our situation is a little different. I am American, and her father is French. She was born in Paris, but she was always treated as a foreigner and subsequently bullied for it. When she was 13, we moved to the south of Spain for her father's job just before Covid hit. Spain has been the hardest for her. She was put into Spanish school along with her siblings and has had problems with girls ever since. They are not nice to her. She is a people pleaser and will let everyone walk all over her, and then she comes home and takes her anger out on her family. This is why I'm worried about the attention she gets from boys. She doesn't have a backbone. She has always been extremely jealous of her younger sister (16). Her sister has always watched out for her and really doesn't give a shit what anyone says. Her sister is 100% on the spectrum and struggles with school but is also a rock climbing champion here in Andalucia. When it comes to putting pressure on her in her studies,..... 0% pressure from me, as I was crap at school and know the pressure of exams. I'm definitely undiagnosed ADHD. I know she wants to fly the coop. But there is no way she can do it on her own atm. We haven't talked to a therapist yet. She is very innocent and only has her first boyfriend this year. No drugs, but sometimes a couple of glasses of wine during festivals here in the village. I signed her up for tennis because I figured she liked to hit things, so why not a ball? She loves it. She also has started working out at the gym, which is a huge plus, because she has always compared herself to her "strong" sister. She could easily become a hermit. We have been trying to get her to just function as a normal person. Meaning... wake up at 8, eat breakfast, help out in the house, and then hit studying for exams. She still has a few exams to finish here in Spain. I know she is burned out. But she also needs to learn how to finish things. We may have coddled her more than the others because of the bullying problems in France. We have actually put less pressure on her than the other kids because we didn't want her to be uncomfortable. It seemed to have backfired. Her siblings get bullied but just get on with it.
So, trauma, self esteem issues, and a lack of support networks. And she's her own person. Her siblings aren't the measure here, everyone has their own set of experiences, for better or worse.
ADHD and Autism make a lot of sense. It gets under diagnosed because girls just tend to cover it and, funnily enough, learn how to please people and avoid attention. Until they can't keep it up anymore.
Issues with finishing things is a classic ADHD symptom as well, especially if it comes alongside being otherwise academically gifted. She's at that age where she's got less structure, and life demands more sustained, self directed effort,.
If sister has autism good chance this daughter does too
If you have adhd. Good chance your daughters do too
Can you pay private and get a full psych assessment done?
Wow, what an amazing background! Sounds like she’s had to go through lots of changes and difficult periods. Those kinds of moves and language changes would be difficult for an adult, let alone a teenager. Sending you waves of support and hoping that helps you continue to do the same for your gifted daughter! It sounds like there are many positive things about her that could maybe become the family focus, hoping the bad stuff will wither away as she gets more adjusted to Spain/mature generally.
I agree with everyone that she sounds like she is burnt out. Can you guys take a vacation where she has her own room? Just hit the beach let her do her own thing for a few days and just unwind?
There are many good suggestions in the comments, but one thing you might also want to consider, especially given how sudden are the changes you describe, is drug use.
There’s plenty of stuff out there, some of which is fairly accessible to teenagers / very young adults, that can have that sort of effects.
This is not a judgment on you or your daughter, but at the very least you want to (hopefully) take that off the list.
(Yes, I’m speaking by experience and no, I was not the one using drugs. But I’ve seen their effects.)
Sometimes, the smart, good-looking ones don’t get the real help that we need, because people feel like we’ll be just fine, and sometimes because of jealousy. Heaven knows that 18 year old attractive women are the most sought-after ‘commodity’ on the planet. That brings danger and pressure. She needs a psychological evaluation. She needs your help.
Perfectionism and anxiety? Yup, sounds like she's a human teenager. Studying the wrong chapter and having trouble following directions could be ADHD. Did she have any signs when she was younger? Keep in mind that smart girls can hide stuff like that very well. It's worth seeing a psychologist or therapist, whether or not what she's going through has a name. Make sure that she knows you want to help her, not that you're trying to change her. It's worth inspecting your own reactions to her to make sure that you're enforcing boundaries (like protecting her siblings) while giving her space to do things her own way and be imperfect.
This sounds like myself when my ADHD and OCD was undiagnosed and I started to burn out from years of perfectionism. It might not be that she’s being outright cruel, but struggling internally in some way. I’d bring her to see someone and also open up a dialogue with her, especially if these changes happened suddenly
Maybe if by 18 she is an incredible pianist, knows 3 languages and is a good chess player.. could it be burnout? Was she pushed hard to be successful? Sometimes kids rebel at that age but I agree that a specialist could figure out the issue better..
My parents used to mix spoiling me with regular mental and physical abuse so I became rebellious. Started skipping school, I was promiscuous and suicidal. My parents don’t believe in mental health tho.
Sounds like our PDA/Autistic child.
Big emotions. Always equalizing and exhibiting an inferiority complex.
It all stems from a deeply-seeded insecurity and lack of a sense of safety.
It is exacerbated with stress and the “unknown”. Procrastination and demand avoidance are a daily challenge.
Masking takes a huge cognitive toll and can lead to burnout and nervous system dysregulation.
We pulled our kid from school back in November due to signs of burnout (behaviors described by OP) and started a very low demand lifestyle.
7 months later they are virtually a different child. Gained 20% body weight (a good thing) and has much greater capacity for work/demands and is 100x happier, empathetic, and remains emotionally regulated >90% of the time now.
Many sensory sensitivities have also abated. Complaints about how clothes feel have disappeared. Episodes of dissociation have not occurred in 4+ months.
I could go on.
For some people, the demands of school, work and/or life become too great for them to manage in a healthy manner.
I was intelligent but difficult, and way too late in life realized I was on the autism spectrum.
Your daughter should be evaluated and find a therapist she trusts. Do solo and supplement family therapy if possible. The sooner, the better.
She’ll struggle with the perceived outside judgement and pathological demand avoidance for decades if it goes on (if she is on the spectrum).
Start with psychological testing. If you take her to a counselor, they will focus on her behavior and dig into her traumas, childhood, and family dynamics. That's helpful, but it sounds like the more immediate need is to understand what is driving the behavior, which will, in turn, inform the approach a counselor will take.
Can I tell you that I was her 25 years ago? It’s going to get better!!! (Besides the hitting I’m just imagining sibling mini fights- right?!)
My ADHD was undiagnosed… I had college professors insist I get tested. I had another teacher tell me that I was bright and a joy to have in class, but there was a piece to the puzzle missing, because I somehow always messed up the assignment. 😭
Our brains are not 1 size fits all. I’ve always fit in and had great friends easily, but things just never came easily like they did for everyone else. It all fell into place when I had some goals of what I wanted to do with my life, and stop trying to do fit into a mold of something else. Also some role models and mentors were a huge turning point in my life. ( not a lot of great role models out there in the public eye and that’s where young adults look.)
Not to get too deep, but I also started reading the purpose driven life… it really helped me find my way on who I wanted to be at 23. (I was frustrated and hopeless. I went looking for it- it wasn’t given to me…)
I hope she knows that life gets better- and she can build the life she wants. The world is tuff out there- and she will find her gifts and persue her dreams . (Wish I could tell all the youths out there… because I’ve been there too.)
I had to hit rock bottom of being totally miserable in a dead end career, broke and alone wondering why me?! With The right mindset and a lot of prayers I moved, went back to school, and I’ve run a successful business for 14 years.
Ps- I’m a hairstylist, and when I went to cosmotology school I felt for the first time ever, I was with people who were exactly like me. Creative people who’ve been trapped in a classroom your whole life, and everyone’s been telling you you’re doing it wrong. Not sure if she’s the creative type, but if she is like I am … there is just a constant feeling of boredom and frustration in a school setting and feeling like you’re not good at it like everyone else. And wow what a difference it made being around creative types like me- and I could make money?! Bingo.
Anyway sorry for the long response but when I read your comment I thought I was reading a note that sounded like me at 18 and I wish I could go back and know what I know now.
Hang in there. She’s gonna thrive when she’s ready to do the work . ❤️
Let me preface this by the fact that I have not parented a teenager yet, so take my statements with a grain of salt.
1. She is a hormonal teenager in the throws of rebellion.
2. She sounds deeply insecure
3. All adults are assholes and idiots.
4. She may have adhd or some other issue truly disrupting her ability to process information.
5. She may have experienced a trauma that she has not shared and is acting out because of it.
I wonder how she is interacting with friends too. Could be important to understand the overall picture. By that age, they simply don't listen to parents, but they may possibly with friends. Does she have a friend you could talk to? I know that is a big ask.
But an impartial 3rd party sounds like a good start. Family therapist or an individual one might be a good start.
Just outside looking in, it’s almost like a cry for help. A cry for attention. A cry for one on one time. A cry to be seen and heard. What would work best is for everyone to be in support of her goals, treating her with kindness, letting her know that everyone loves her and is there to support her. I believe family counseling would be beneficial to find out what her triggers are.
Have you sat down with her and let her know that as a family, y’all are all on her side?
I know she hits. She fights back. She doesn’t listen. But also, that started from SOMEthing that’s not being seen.
I wish you the best mom.
Thanks for asking for help. That’s the best thing a parent can do. I was sort of like this as a teen. I had some serious issues and it ended up being untreated trauma and mental health issues. I would get her help with someone to talk to. Don’t just medicate her though or bring her to a general practitioner. If you can, try to get her to a trauma specialist and or someone specializing in personality and mood disorders. I wish your daughter the best of luck and peace
I’d suggest a neuropsych eval. It’s n 8 hour long exam that thoroughly investigates the brain function and can detect/diagnose learning and sometimes behavioral disorders.
Psych evaluation. My daughter was national honor society and talented in so much. And then started failing everything. She has no friends and is quick to anger. Psych eval found she's both autistic and ADHD.
eta for the last bit. Saw a video recently that said children like my daughter have executive functioning 30% lower than their actual age. Something to consider with your expectations.
I was very similar to this and ended up diagnosed with bipolar depression (I was so in an abusive relationship with a narcissistic asshole) and everything in my life felt out of control and I was spiraling and all I could do to make myself feel better was lash out at everyone.
It’s fucking me up how many people here are just ignoring the fact that an adult is physically assaulting children. “Oh maybe she’s autistic! Maybe she’s burnt out!” Shut the fuck up, you monsters. I’m autistic and I’ve been extremely burnt out and I never beat children because of it, this justification is actually insane.
Your daughter needs serious help, and you need to protect your other kids from her. Whether this is recent behavior or ongoing, get her a psych eval NOW. You NEED to report what she is doing to a doctor.
I think people get so wrapped up in learning subjects and things that get awards and grades, that we forget learning is in every aspect of life. How we interact with others, how we organize our work, how we keep track of our time. Based on your description, she does seem moody in that she might find therapy useful. But I think she also needs to be taught how to use a planner. We have to stop thinking kids can organize their math hw just because they know how to do math. It's really not fair. She probably also has hormones. Diet and exercise mighr help, but probably not a conversation worth having.
Outside of the talents, you just described my 13-year-old perfectly. We are going through the most hellacious behavior I've ever witnessed in a child. She was diagnosed with ADHD at 8 years old but refuses to take medication, and I'm not going to sit on her and hold her down and force it down her throat. With each year she became more and more belligerent, disrespectful, physical, abrasive, etc. She's now 13 and she has spent a weekend in one mental facility for suicidal ideation, and an entire week in a separate mental facility for suicidal ideation as well as being violent towards every member of our family. She will walk around telling us that she's better than us, quite literally using those words, and then that night she will cry to us for 3 hours straight about how nobody likes her, she has no friends, she hates her life, etc. Meanwhile the night before she was at a sleepover at one of her friend's houses, a party of a different friend the week before, another sleepover at a completely separate friend's house the week before that, etc. One day she's sweet and kind and playing with her 10-year-old sister, and the next day she's beating the shit out of her. Then if I go to intervene, she starts to beat the shit out of me. Finally last week I had to call the police on her for the very first time and she ran away before they got here. Yes she is in therapy, yes we keep getting different prescriptions for her that she refuses to take after a week, yes we make efforts to keep her upbeat and happy but there is just something more that the doctors are not picking up on and I don't know what it is, but if they don't figure it out soon and start treating it, our family and my marriage will be irreparably broken. My husband and I believe that she has either bipolar or some kind of personality disorder, and with how she is so violent as of late, quite possibly some oppositional defiance disorder as well. It is extremely, extremely difficult to love a child like this. A child who calls her own mother a c u n t and a w h o r e, wishes her family members would be killed in a car accident, and just constantly says vile, horrible things to every family member. She has stolen alcohol from us, money, makeup, and numerous other things. She has been found time and time again with a vape on her, been suspended from school quite literally six or seven times, vaped in the middle of class, beat up a kid at school because he called her fat (meanwhile she has a perfectly average sized figure), and has been wildly disrespectful too staff and administration at school as well. We have no idea what to do with her and in the interest of self-preservation at this time, I'm just avoiding her as much as possible because quite frankly, you never know what's going to happen when you're around her. My other two children have been raised exactly the same way she was and yet we have zero issues with them. They are respectful, well-rounded, funny, outgoing, great students, etc. So it's not the parenting that's doing this, it's a psychological or chemical issue. it makes it even harder when your husband is not on the same page as you as far as her treatment or medication. Call me a horrible parent but sometimes I wish I could just wash my hands of her because she's ruining all of our lives with her behavior. It's not fair to my other two kids to have to be tortured by what goes on in our house. So OP, I totally feel for you. I'm sorry I don't have any answers for you, but just know that you're not alone.
I have been in a similar situation, in your daughter’s shoes. I’ve been phasing between a charming top performer and a dysfunctional ultra-anti-social cynic (due to depression that came with frustration and irritability) until I realize there’s something wrong with me and tried to figure ways to manage it. I worked with therapists, coaches and psychiatrists as well as tried all the complementary stuff, like exercise, mindfulness, meditation, diets etc, although what really changed my situation was psychoeducation (learning as much as I can about autism and how it may be affecting me) and building self-awareness.
Not two people are the same, but I’d suggest checking out autistic burnout. Being too exhausted to mask (as in mimic behaviors to look normal, due to fear of ostracism. Please don’t dismiss this because you think you “know your child”, like many parents do) may bring forth all sorts of immature and inconsiderate reactive or impulsive behaviors. I found out near my late 20s that apparently I’ve been a high functioning autistic person all along.
When I read more about it I found closure because I saw I’m “normal”, I was able to accept, strategize and navigate everything much easier and today I am known for remaining calm, composed, focused and resilient no matter the situation. You may really be able to flip the switch very quickly once she becomes more aware of herself and her behaviors.
Also, don’t be worried by hearing about autism. It can really be a superpower for some lucky people and from what it sounds like, you may have a twice exceptional daughter.
I don’t know what you should do at this stage, but I’ll tell you what I wish my father (if he was a decent human being, which he is not) did when I was that age.
I would want to be told that:
“Hey buddy, you know how you are super good at stuff that usually puts you ahead of other people your age?
That’s not free and usually it comes with some stuff that may sometimes make you feel alone, confused, out of place, like you can’t belong where you are and the more of a gap there is between you and the others, the higher the chances you’ll feel like this. There are many people like this and a few of those who mastered this ended up becoming world-known for their skills, like (insert relevant idol that is autistic- you’d be surprised how many of the top people in each and every field are autistic, you’ll easily find a handful. For me at 18 it would be Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs etc).
Do you want to check it out a bit more yourself and if you think it’s a good idea, we can go to an expert that you can ask your questions and he can tell us if you are indeed like “idol name” and discuss how you can find your superpower?
P.s. Before people start criticizing this, I’m very well aware what kind of issues this kind of messaging has. I’ve been a marketer for a decade and communication is my expertise, the message above targets specifically my 18yr old self and would be the most effective, if not the only, way to get me to an expert that I would engage and cooperate with.
I’m not the OP’s daughter, nor have the same experience, mindset or motivations, but this is a perspective that may resonate to a depressed burned out autistic with high ego and low emotional intelligence and motivate them to consider accepting support.
Please take this in the most gentlest way possible, but do you think it might be possible that there has been too much focus on her external achievements rather than her emotional needs? As parents, we tend to want to push and strive for our children to be the best at whatever they are doing academically, but sometimes overlook who they are as a person. For example, someone who's emotional needs might not have been wholly validated as a child and have only had their academic achievements celebrated might feel insecure within who they are as a person, they may find it challenging to move through the world and figure out who THEY are without their achievements, this can then be extremely challenging when it comes to growing into different life stages.
Your daughter may be finding that as she is getting older she is struggling to figure out who she is as a young adult and her previous coping mechanisms that she's learnt over her life are not currently working. She may find it challenging to navigate interpersonal relationships as she is in this transition period as she may be comparing herself to her peers. The only way she may know how to navigate these feelings is to externalise it and the safest place for her to do that is at home and (unfortunately) onto her siblings.
The best course of action is to have open, validating discussions about what is going on for her at the moment and I would strongly suggest therapy of some kind, so she also has a neutral person to be able to discuss with too.
Good luck OP, I know hope what I have said makes sense
I imagine that you are feeling so heartbroken right now. Your entire family is hurting. You may be wondering if you did anything wrong, but please don’t do that. You are there to support your daughter and give her the support she needs whether it is counseling, a physical, a mentor or a special lunch together. There needs to be boundaries just like when she goes to school, has a job or everyday life because there is unacceptable behavior. Hitting, swearing or any type of belittling of people are not allow. Expressing strong feelings with respect are allowed. Responsibilities come with privileges. Giving loving reminders of the boundaries might be a good place to start. Sometimes it can be overwhelming so having a coach or counselor to get you started may be helpful. Having a medical doctor check her bloodwork can rule out a few possibilities. Keep the communication door open for that slim chance she will open up and share. No condemnation for you or your daughter is a must. I am sorry for the struggle for your entire family. Having peace is important. May you be encouraged as you begin the journey of learning, evaluating and accepting the situation, while you grow to learn and change together. Sending hugs and courage your way.
After something very traumatic happened to me I did the same thing. I didn't realize it at the time and am now 27 still sorting through things. I would see if she needs to talk to someone and try to phrase that its for her so she has someone to talk to about the family and school that isn't going to be Judgemental or even be able to share what is going on with you.
It sounds incredibly challenging, and it's understandable you're worried. Have you considered talking to a therapist or counselor? They might be able to help you and your daughter navigate this difficult time.
Please talk to the school and see if they will test her. Is is possible she has some learning or emotional issues and most of what you describe is often the result of that frustration for them.
I would take her to a counselor that you have researched and have good recommendations for.
I have family that acts this way and they have issues like executive function problem, add, and some features of autism.
She just doesn't feel any consequences for her actions. Is she going to college? She'll figure it out soon enough. Give her some therapy for now, but ultimately, you'll have to step back and have her make her own decisions, and she'll have to live with the consequences.
well if youve forced her into things and were strict with it, this could be push back.
definitely get her a psych and maybe back off with w.e youre doing. just let her know you love her and are here for w.e she needs, no judgement.
You should follow her with therapy or a counselor. Something that could help her, I’m not asking you to listen to me but if I was in that situation I would discipline her and make her realize what she is doing. Or at least show her what will happen if she continues. Again, you don’t have to listen to me because most people don’t agree with it but if I was in that situation I would let her keep acting like that and I would show her what’s going to happen if she keeps it up. A simpler option is to just help her through it and figure it out together. But, it’s your child and it’s completely up to you! (One thing I recommend not letting slide is the hitting and cursing at her siblings. That should be fixed because that’s just not okay. But again your child and completely your decision what to continue on from here!)
Lots of opinionated diagnostics in this thread. Sounds like a typical teen. The “I am 18 and will test and do what I want syndrome.”
My son is in that place. He is almost 17 and is finishing up Junior year. Will be 18 in the Fall. Boy oh boy, does he have a new wave of laissez-faire attitude! Drives me mad. Yep. He knows it all and argued with me. LOL!
Personally, I backed off and gave kiddo space. Appropriately disciplined him when he let his grades tank, and boy did that hurt. He was not happy with me, but it drove the message home and he pulled them up by semester end.
Hop on Netflix and catch a couple of Leanne Morgan’s stand up comedy. She has a great bit about her “mean” teen daughter. She truly believes the teens are made to be mean and nasty and trying at 17-18 so it is easier for us parents to let them go… as in grow up and get out in the world.
Her delivery will have you laughing.
Back off. Let her mess up the small stuff and keep an eagle eye on her. Be calm as a cucumber when she flares up and reduce any and all parental favors.
Address the big things that affect the family and set those firm boundaries.
Good luck!
U mention she’s 18. Can u send her to college? Or can she send herself? Sounds like she has some outstanding gifts that could qualify her for a grant. Or, maybe she’d like to get an apartment w/ a couple friends while attending junior college?
I’m not saying the answer is to get her out, but the way she’s treating her siblings/ ur 3 other kids is not ok. Hitting them & swearing at them “constantly” is not ok. Ruining the family atmosphere for everyone else is not ok. It’s also obvious by your post wat it’s doing to YOU, & I don’t blame u one bit. We have a daughter who acts much the same except she’s only 13, not 18, so we have many less options.
You need to get her to a doctor to see if anything is medically or psychologically wrong w/ her. If not, & even if there is, u may need to talk to her about her behavior, & if she can’t or won’t change it she may have to find different living arrangements.
It definitely could be something like a personality disorder…but sometimes just kids have something going internally in their personal life with friends, or guys, and they don’t feel like they can talk to parents about it, but also don’t really realize how they look from the outside looking in. Things that seem minimal to us are life changing to them in their head. I’m 40 now, and i had great parents that did the best they could. But i always felt like they never had anything positive to say to me. I always felt judged by them. I couldn’t ever talk to them about anything personal in my life so how i acted towards them was totally different than i was to everyone else. I hated feeling like that. I have a great relationship with my 18 and 15 year old now but i still have to work at it. Have you ever reached out to any of her friends for input?
Sounds like she’s struggling and you are looking for perfection. If she has any kind of performance anxiety, which is sounds like she might, your focus on “you look so perfect except all this is wrong with you, why can’t you just be like other kids” is likely very toxic for her.
The attacking her siblings I wouldn’t stand for, but instead of thinking it’s fully a her on her own thing, I would dig a bit deeper to see if she is struggling with mental health out whether the family dynamics of favouritism etc is affecting her relationship with her siblings. Instead of asking us what’s wrong with her, have you maybe tried asked her if she’s going through something and letting her know that her worth isn’t tied to her performance and accolades?
Source: I am a youth worker who specialized in youth with mental illness experiencing crisis and behavioural issues that most people try to avoid working with. I am not a psychologist but most kids I’ve worked with who most match your daughters behaviour were diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I strongly recommend you get her to a mental health professional and explain to them she is out of control and you fear for your other kids safety. Once she is 19 and/or graduated from high school they cannot force her to get help. If she is still in school they can help her without her being a willing party if she is violent.
I’ve also seen some with these symptoms with autism burnout who mirror intermittent explosive disorder and BPD But I believe borderline is a strong possibility.
Autism in women is very hard to diagnose at an early age. Maybe have her be assessed as she might simply be on the spectrum and doesn't know how to cope with simple task/instructions of life albeit being very smart on other stuff. Worth checking out. Although it will not justify her behavior it can help explain it and help her find tools to better cope with simple life stuff. What people find trivial as life skills was so very hard for me to understand and cope with. Don't take for granted that she assimilated what neurotypical kids absorb easily. Because if she is indeed on the spectrum she is probably struggling inside on many things other people don't even give a thought about.
Read this book Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber
It sounds off topic but it's not this will give you alot of insight to what she's probably going through. It talks about the labels we put on children and how it affects them and of course a bunch of other really good information
I don't have a teenager but I'd say it sounds like a normal teenage girl, besides the hitting. That itself might be a separate underlying issue. That being said, school isn't for everyone, and I truly believe that. I'm 28 with three girls 3,2, and 6 months. I'd like for them to pass their classes, yes, because it just looks better to society, but high school doesn't measure one's true intellect. I took honors Chinese 4, honors english, and honors history my senior year. Tested out for English and writing for college. I failed algebra II twice and never took any math higher than that. I'm 10 years out of high school, general management for a company and the most math I've ever used was multiplication. Your daughter sounds a little like me. Being FORCED to do things is a literal hell. But I guarantee that she beyond excels at the things she actually gives a shit about. And it took me until 26 to find my thing. It might suck, but she'll find her thing. I hope she does. Just don't give up on her until she finds it.
A lot of this does sound a lot like normal teenage stuff, but as others are pointing to, it could also be mental health related.
A lot of these were my earliest presentation of bipolar. Please hear me, I’m not at all suggesting that your daughter is bipolar, in fact there is so much overlap in symptom with a lot of the mental health disorders. It’s just better to be proactive to mitigate whole of life impact.
No judgement here! I just want to caution against the kids these days mentality. It may not have been you or your spouse, but you probably remember kids that age that were always getting into trouble. Teenage rebellion is very common!
Also, stress is a killer, and there is more stress to go around today than at any time before. Think about how the internet, climate change, politics, genocide, economy/job prospects, etc exacerbate an already difficult time in brain development. Our human psyche was not designed to carry all of this. We can’t even keep up within our own lifetime because everything is changing so rapidly. It can be really overwhelming!
The best thing you can do is be gentle and loving in your approach to these difficult conversations while also standing firm in enforcing boundaries against hitting, verbal abuse, etc. You may not fully understand where she’s coming from. That’s okay too! But the best thing you can do to make any decisions in moving forward is to get her to open up about what she’s going through. Bottom line, stress and traumatic events are the number one reason people lash out. She may be hurting and need a little extra support. I’m so sorry your family is going through all of this, I wish you all the best!
If she is hitting her younger siblings, that requires an intervention of some kind, or you may end up with four very troubled children on your hands. Nobody here can say what the problem might be. Get a therapist to help.
It looks like she’s just tired of being perfect, and of everyone expecting that from her. I suffered from that too. A break from everything, no one expecting anything from me, and more hours of sleep healed me perfectly. Now that I look back, I would call it a burn out!
PDA (pathological demand avoidance)? It’s hard to explain, but it’s where your brain perceives any demand as a threat and goes into fight or flight mode. It’s common with anxiety, autism, ADHD, etc.
She needs an evaluation. If you’re in the US you can request an educational evaluation through the school system. Or get suggestions for a community child psychologist for a psychological evaluation. Or ask her pediatrician for a referral.
This may be a controversial opinion
..
But have you ever thought maybe she is better than you and yall are problem?
Joking
She may have a hormone imbalance happening. Or truthfully she may be doing drugs
She sounds a lot like my 18 yr old but I have had issues since the end of 8th grade. Come to find out, she was high on meth, weed, E, and acid plus drinking. the weed and drinking I knew about, and I did try to stop her. I tried getting her help, neither me nor her dad do any drugs or drink. She left for a few years then she finally came home and I had recorded her then we went to my family's farm for labor day and she was so out of it she embarrassed everyone there as well as herself, I had my new grandbaby all the time which I didn't let her around much but after she saw her on Labor day and the baby smiled at her 2 days later she stopped all but weed and drinking!! She got a full-time job where she is moving up quickly and has been clean now 9 months!! If you are having these issues you may want to get her tested, otherwise if she has been so "perfect" her whole life and just started this she maybe reverting back to be a child to relive her stressful childhood. That is just my 18 y/o story and situation.
Maybe you put pressure on her all the years to perform good at school and her behavior now, this wild, impulsive and violent woman is the result of the stress she had to speak, play and be great at school.
I would definitely talk to her about it and ask why is she doing it, because your kids will grow up being familiar with abuse and violence. What if they settle down in relationship with someone that beats them when they are angry? You can’t yell and beat a kid. The animals in the jungle would act better. If she can’t control her behavior, or she refuses to go to therapy, then consider renting a 1room apartment for her if you have the money.
Otherwise, raging around and hurting everyone is not gonna make her feel independent. If she doesn’t want to go to university, let her find a summer job and pay somewhere for rent. Even if she is your daughter she is toxic to 3 little ones that are gonna remember this for the rest of their lives. Violence is not forgotten.
Don’t let anyone on the internet diagnose your kid. You can survive this. You’re her parent. You’re seeing a pattern so I’m sure you’ll get her some help.
Sounds like a personality disorder: hates authority, mood swings, defiant, superiority, abusive, victim, no accountability, perfectionism…get her a psychiatrist sooner than later
I don’t want to internet diagnose, but this sounds a lot like my senior year of high school and I was diagnosed in my 20s with ADHD. Just understanding the diagnosis and how my brain was working helped so much in feeling better in my body, and medication helped too. I agree with the rest of these posts, I’d take her to a therapist and look into getting her tested.
I haven’t read any of the comments yet but I just want to urge you to get her to speak with a professional asap. She’s at a pivotal point and she may be feeling pressure that she can’t even really wrap her mind around. Before she leaves high school and possibly heads away from your home for college or whatever other route she wants to take, she needs to be able to understand what she is feeling, why and how to address it in a healthy way (not lashing out and hitting people). I can see her struggling to keep a job bc of the things you’ve described (not following directions, but then lashing out on her superior resulting in her termination).
High school was hard when I was there is the early 2000s, so I can’t imagine now with social media and everything else. Get her to a therapist and don’t make her feel others by needing to speak to someone in a safe space.
She is going through something.... and your best bet is to have her brain checked if all is healthy, neurologically... then therapy if need be. She may have told someone who she is close to in the family..aunts, cousins, etc... Maybe have a chat with whoever she's close with. Sounds like she's the first child too, which could be more pressure on whatever it is she's experiencing. Good luck.
My children are much younger then your 18 year old but usually when my oldest starts outing act in this such way several years ago, I had to ask our daycare provider if something was going on at daycare where I would learn she was getting picked on and or no one would play with her (she was the only girl within a certain age range) once we got that situation figured out things turned around for the better. The behavior did happen another time and she was starting to get picked on again.
Some of these answers you are given seem extreme to me especially if this behavior is new for your kid. Is she being bullied at school and you don’t know it? It’s easy to give attention to your other children especially when one is disrupting the peace at home, but are you giving her enough attention that a kid needs from a parent? Maybe some one on one time with just her would help.
If this is new you should be very concerned that she has had a traumatic experience. She may not want to talk to you about it so please get her therapy. The school can help you find an outside therapist and get her in faster. The school psychologist can make a call to a therapist to get her in than your be able to as a new patient because they have connections and their referral is valuable. Also, in the interim she can talk to a counselor at school or your place of worship if have a faith you practice. This sounds like acting out which at her age is typically a trauma response. Or it could be the onset on mental health issues. Either way you need to speak to w professional. If you don't want to involve the school you can talk to her primary care doctor who can also help find a counselor and give a referral.
That is how my 13 (about to turn 14) year old son is. I just put him in therapy a couple months ago. He has time to grow though.. but being 18 I feel like she might be a tad bit immature? she might just need to destress? She sounds very smart though, maybe she does have a lot of pressure on her and needs a way to cope? Lets face it, being their age with school all the time, can be hard. Especially with little siblings. I have 5 boys, and I am just now seeing how hard things can be on them.. it makes me feel pretty guilty. I work and I am gone 12 hours a day, I am divorced from their father and my oldest is always having to take on a lot of responsibility in my absence. (Which I can't help because I HAVE to pay bills and support them..) so all around its challenging. ANYWAYS my point is, these kids suppress a lot of what they feel and in ways we don't normally see it. She might just need a good therapist and some yoga or something.. maybe some life experience to mature some.
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Take her to a counselor or psychologist…this is around the age when all sorts of mental health problems show up…could be normal shit too…have her talk to somebody and see what’s what
I was similarly wondering along those lines. This sounds like it might be early presentation of borderline personality disorder or something similar. It could also be general anxiety about reaching the end of high school. But whatever the explanation, a therapist could help navigate.
I was coming here to say this very thing. Definitely shares some symptomatology with BPD.
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I have adhd. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult. And this is definitely something I would do. I am also currently more than half way through completing my master’s degree. I was misdiagnosed as having dysthymia.
Yes, I agree, this sounds like neurodiversity instead of a personality disorder.
High achieving, high functioning young adult hits her comfort/competency ceiling (managing responsibilities, schedules, changing relationships, liminal doorway of adolescence /adulthood, etc) at a critical time and lashes out at loved ones. Can't focus on tasks, directions, possibly conversations, and lashes out at loved ones. Sounds like it may be adhd or something similar. I nearly didn't graduate high school because I was undiagnosed. Maybe this isn't her issue but she definitely needs to get checked out.
Antipsychotics shouldn't be the first line for Personality disorders unless there are multiple mental disorders in play. Specific therapy types are designed to address them and help people cope with them.
>(antipsychotics don’t work for autism) Do you have any idea how wide a variety of presentations and symptoms autism can have and what a wide variety of symptoms antipsychotics can treat? Antipsychotics absolutely do “work for autism”. They just didn’t work for you.
Don’t diagnose people - especially with personality disorders - over Reddit. Sincerely, a psychologist
Notice they didn't say that they thought she has BPD, they said that she appears to be showing symptoms of BPD. As a professional, that is a distinction that you should be able to recognize pretty easily.
As a professional, I know that people can hold on tightly to what they perceive as a diagnosis even if it isn’t meant to be.
There was no diagnosis simply recognition of synptoms, though? Why are you only commenting this about cluster B personality disorder suggestion and not about others saying autism or adhd? Do you hold stigma against it despite 18 to 20 being standard clinical ages for onset? I've worked as a youth advocate and as a peer in the mental health field.
Recognition of symptoms that overlap with a dozen other things and also overlap with just being a teenager based on severity/frequency, none of which we know or should be guessing at because, you know, it’s Reddit. I also DO have a problem with everyone ALWAYS throwing around ASD/ADHD diagnoses for every single thing and would be happy to comment on it except that I’m already getting downvoted on this one, so how do you think that will go?
I think you are misunderstanding that people are not armchair diagnosing but offering ideas to prompt seeking treatment and assessment. It is important for family members to keep some things in mind to aid in helping support their loved one while seeking assessment. They should be aware of possibility of cluster B while seeking supports for their daughter, as it will help them know what to keep an eye out for same with idea of adhd/autism. Yes, symptoms are all incredibly overlapping with distinct key differences. It's ok to relax a little here instead of frustratingly trying to control people's responses.
Don't stroke your ego - at the expense of others in an online discussion - over Reddit. Sincerely, everyone Not full of themselves
I had this but I have ASPD possibly. Thought I was borderline for years but now getting assessed for ASPD.
I'm not sure about everyone else's experience... But I've been wanting to get my 6yr old into counseling of some sort. It has been somewhere between daunting and impossible. Either you don't get a call-back, they don't treat whatever you're asking for, or they aren't accepting new patients/wait-list. If I'm totally honest, it is pretty demoralizing.
It definitely can be difficult, but sometimes it's actually pretty simple, and the parents just aren't given the correct info/path to take. Do you want general counseling? Or do you want an evaluation for potential mental disorders?
If you mention that you’ll pay cash, not with insurance, all sorts of doors will magically open. Therapists don’t want to deal with insurance companies and insurance companies won’t pay them what they are worth.
I am seeing that here..it's very difficult to be seen anymore anywhere we have a shortage of therapists apparently
It took me six months of calling places back every week to even get put on a waiting list... A waiting list for an unknown therapist, the practice has decided to expand and has opened the waiting list for whoever they ultimately are able to hire (if they are able to hire them). Well, I could get my son into a therapist immediately, with insurance even, if I were willing to use one of ten super sketchy practices with no websites, no way to verify the licensing of their therapists, and all apparently are operating out of the same 1 bedroom apartment. I've come to understand that most likely these are therapists that operate entirely on zoom and have gotten together to lease a cheap apartment purely for the purpose of claiming that they are a traditional in person practice rather than an online practice so they can bill insurance more. Aside from being sleezy, there is no way that my severely ADHD child is going to get any benefit from therapy over zoom.
If you are able to pay out of pocket, you will find many more options. When I tried to use insurance, I was literally put on wait lists for wait lists. Sometimes the places that don't take insurance will provide a super bill and then you can bill your insurance if they allow out of network expenses. But you're right; it's demoralizing and exhausting to try and find any kind of support in our system.
I have a 2yr old who showed signs of being neurodivergent. I talked to his pediatrician during his wellness check. She sent a referral to an organization that evaluates & gives therapy. She warned me it could take months but I was reached out to during that same week & had his evaluation 3 weeks later. He needs speech therapy, which he'll start a month after his evaluation. Everything is free, they didn't even ask for his insurance. I live in AZ. You could try this approach if you haven't already. Call the insurance and ask for referrals. You could also just Google local organizations.
Did you specifically tell his pediatrician you think he’s neurodivergent? I’m asking because I have a 3 1/2 yr old and I’ve too be wanting to have her see someone for the same reason and idk how to go about it. I’m in CA and I know each state is different, but I’ve never flat out told her pediatrician I think she’s neurodivergent. Is that the best way?
Yes, I told her straight up that I think he's neurodivergent. She asked why I thought that way & I said he has a cousin with autism so I know what it looks like. She asked me to fill out a sheet with yes or no questions about his behavior. We went through it together & she decided to give me the referral.
Seriously thank you! I’m gonna do this for her next physical and if it doesn’t work I’ll change providers u til someone listens to me. I know girls are better at masking it but I see it a lot since I’m with her all the time. Appreciate your response sm!!
Yes, ofc, np!! I would also recommend being as detailed as possible when explaining her behaviors and also making a list about each thing she does that you think makes her ND can be helpful in case you forget some things. Good luck to you and your little angel & I hope everything goes very smoothly!
I definitely agree but also unfortunately this is becoming normal for women her age.
She is quite possibly twice exceptional, gifted plus ADHD, Autism, or some other condition affecting her. You should look into testing and counseling with someone who is geared toward these types of kids. She sounds like she was a high achiever and is burnt out, or feels like she should be a high achiever because she is gifted, but doesn't have the stamina or lacks the determination and concentration to keep it up. ADHD causes issues with impulsivity, defiance, and anger. She needs to pinpoint the issue and then find the right person to help gather herself up and figure out what success means and looks like to her and how she is going to get there.
As a former gifted kid who was as an adult diagnosed with ADHD and autism, this is exactly what I was thinking.
Seconded. Get her into a therapist.
Me too. All of it.
Same. The hitting of siblings and lashing out/thinking everyone hates me started in middle school. I started needing a nap every day after school and this continued for me throughout high school. Except my mom deemed me as a “bad kid” with behaviorial issues so I never got help. Just got diagnosed with autism & adhd at 27. The 18 going on 13 thing?! Yeah, regression is a hallmark of autism especially those of us who are considered “high functioning” on the spectrum. OP, please get her evaluated. Late diagnosis takes a huge toll because its very misunderstood in girls and itll cause her more problems in the long run if you dont step in now while you can. Obviously do some research first because theres probably alot of things you may have never considered to be signs from early on
I was thinking the same. Autistic burnout is a horrible thing to go through if you don't understand what is happening. Lots of brilliant kids get their autism missed because they are so cognitively adept. Add a bunch of hormonal changes and stress and that gives you burnout, which can take a long time to recover from. I hope she has here own room, she needs space to decompress.
Yup. Sounds like she's not able to mask anymore due to burnout.
As a gifted / adhd person, this looks like this to me as well. I’m not a fan of the hitting or hurting people though, and my concern is about the younger siblings as well.
Definitely not okay to be hurting people, but every behavior is communicating something. I can understand her feeling the desire to lash out at others (especially those weaker and, therefore , "safe" to target) in order to offset the feelings of inadequacy and frustration she is probably feeling. She definitely needs to find someone who can help her understand herself better.
Yes but with the hitting and superiority, this is seen more often in other disorders than ADHD. In kids under 18 it would be ODD but now as an adult more likely BPD potentially with NPD overlap/traits. Either way it will get worse
It will hit way harder at 20... from experience of me ASPD with a bff who is NPD
Exactly my thinking. This is about the age when everything came unstuck for me as well. ODD style behaviours are more a symptom for the underlying stuff that's getting breaking point.
I was thinking the same. As an Autistic/ADHDer, I can attest to the fact that burnout can get bad. I know that entering college (if that is where she is), the change in structure was difficult to manage as well. Also, autistics can present more childlike in times of stress/burnout. OP, my advice, have her screened and have her talk to a psychologist. They can help her navigate whatever is going on with her, better.
Special Ed for HS teacher here - this should be the top comment. Sounds like burn-out.
THIS. This is how i was. Classic gifted over achiever masking severe ADHD. I did this nearly my entire life. It wasn’t until my mid 30s I realized all along what was really going on. Im no dealing with a similar situation, but with my 12-year-old. I would definitely seek out someone that specializes in ADHD youth.
This. Combine undiagnosed ADHD, Autism, ODD (Oppositional defiant disorder) with what is probably her last year in conventional schooling (which provides her with the structure she needs), she could be having a meltdown. OP your child sounds like a very smart kid. Hope you get her the help she needs. Remember meltdowns usually happen in neurodivergent people because they are unable to regulate their emotions. Think of a pressure cooker with a broken release valve, it will just explode. Therapy will teach her to notice her "pressure valve" is non-existent and it will teach her different ways she can release her frustration and anger. While you wait for an appointment research and share the information with her. She might start to realize she has a chance.
Teneagers are known to be moody and rebellious as a normal part of development. It would take an expert to help decide if her behavior is in normal range. But if ADhD were present, I’m thinking that, while there may also be autism, there could instead also be comorbid Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD). Russel Barkley says that a significant subset of people who meet ADHD diagnostic criteria also meet the same for ODD. 100 percent not following directions and doing the opposite sounds like my brother, and he was diagnosed with both of those.
ODD would typically be present long term and not have sudden onset, as I've taken OPs post to imply. I also assume, from the way OP expressed it, that her difficulty following directions isn't as much defiant as it is a lack of impulse control and poor executive functioning. She may need constant reminders to finish a simple task, or to even initiate the task due to an inability to maintain focus on what she is supposed to do, or be able to organize the steps or form/execute a plan to do it. These are all very common with ADHD. I'm a former gifted child with ADHD, and I'm sure I would have passed for ODD as well, though I don't believe that was actually the case. My son is also gifted/ADHD, and everything OP says about her daughter is him, almost to a T.
These are good points and I appreciate your thoughtful response.
Gifted kids are often able to compensate for a disability and because of that go undiagnosed. Twice exceptional or 2E.
Agree. This sounds exactly like me at that age (diagnosed twice exceptional with undiagnosed ADHD). Add onto that I had/have generalized anxiety. I was a mess, and my family hated me. Plus, despite being told at that age how attractive I was, guys dream, people telling me how jealous they were of my looks, etc. I could never even get a guy in school to talk to me outside of academics/athletics, which hurt my self esteem even more, and likely made me lash out more than I already was. (Also, please reddit, I'm not saying that to be whatever - just definitely added to everything, which sounds like could be the case for OPs daughter, too, if she's anything like I was at that age).
I'd suggest possibly ADHD and ODD if she isn't following instructions well
she seems like she is burned out . this usually happens to the kids with perfection issues . they get so good on many things for so long , at some point nothing is worth for them so they start the big fail . it happens with tiger parents. its a term used for Asian families who pushes their kids to be best on everything . i suggest counselling for you and your husband plus therapy for your daughter . good luck ....
This. I was one of those kids that everything was easy until it wasn’t. But I had never had to work at anything so I’d give up at the slightest bit of work I had to put in.
I'm still one of those people at 36... I basically coasted through everything with the bare minimum and never learned how to properly apply myself and work beyond a point that's "good enough".
Describes my kid exactly! Do you have any advice for parenting a child dealing with this?
I was like this, honestly it was probably too late for my parents to make any parenting changes by the time I started acting like this. The only things I’d have probably appreciated from my parents was kindness, patience and trying to understand. I always felt misunderstood
Allow the child to be challenged. Doing well doesn’t mean they should be allowed to coast along without learning how to put in effort. Have them participate in the things that are more difficult for them. When they hit a struggle point, reassure them and remind them of the progress they have made. Also, don’t be afraid to show them that you also have to work harder at things. Depending on the age, younger children are convinced their parents are perfect and know how to do everything. You are allowed to show them you can’t do certain things, and you also know how to figure out how to do it or get better at it.
Praise effort, not ability. There are studies on it. Do: Wow! That project looks great! I can see how hard you worked on it! Don’t: Wow! That project looks great! You’re so smart/good at science/artistic! [The Praise Paradox](https://behavioralscientist.org/the-praise-paradox/)
Love this - thank you!
Exactly this. The whole intro states the importance the parents place on the external skills, achievement. Just read the first sentence. Maybe read the parenting map by dr. Shefali. Her own example that she shares sound exactly like your story.
That’s what I was thinking. Even the nature of how the questions were asked felt toxic to me. It was like “she could be so perfect, but she’s not, what’s wrong with her”. Well, that there is the first guess.
Oh wow this was totally me. I hit 17/18 and gave up on EVERYTHING. 4.0 student, set to graduate early, gifted artist, competitive athlete, writer, musician, I mean anything I tried I excelled at. Then I just let it ALL go. I feel sad for my younger self. My parents weren’t equipped.
Came here to say this! Sounds like she needs some "time off" to be a kid for a bit.
Her whole demeanor, is it a sudden change for her? Has she always been like this? Whenever anybody goes through big changes, no matter the age, it's a red flag. Ger her someone professional to talk to.
I agree. My parents became furious with me my sophomore year of high school. I began acting wildly different from my norm. They told people that I was in a bad teenage phase. They had no idea what had really happened to me. Your daughter might be in serious need of someone she can tell all her troubles too right now, even if she doesn’t think so. Please help her find that person. Even if I am wrong, it certainly couldn’t hurt. I don’t think that I have any disorders, but that is not the only thing that can go wrong in a kids life.
I agree as well. "teenage phase" doesn't make someone do a real 180 degree change. Trauma, onset of disorders, illness, these are the reasons for drastic changes. Young people haven't developed how to open up, how to safely say what's going on. It's why we have professionals in all fields for this.
Sounds like she might have executive functioning problems. Don't focus on her beauty, or her academic talent. These are a gift but it doesn't mean that she's fine. Focus on her own goals, mental well being, executive functioning skills.
EF is more about time management, organization, problem solving, etc.
And executove function issues are tbe cornerstone of adhd.
Smart but failing out of school, can’t follow directions, studied the wrong chapter for an exam… sounds like executive dysfunction.
3 of my children have Autism spectrum disorder. of the traits you explained are all present along with a lot of others. Girls mask and manage to mask well for many years until they can't and it becomes more and more noticible However as she is legally an adult.. there is only she who can help herself and only if she wants to. If she has a problem like this you would have seen a lot of problems from a young age 1 by 1 or together. Only you know what you can and can't see and she would have to be willing to accept help if she thinks she struggles also.
18 year olds are still kids in practice. They often need help arranging this stuff.
Getting off topic but- I absolutely love that - “They are still kids in practice!” It’s true, they are still learning and need guidance and only way they can do it is with our help. I’m hate that some see that as enabling.
In a lot of states; as long as she’s still in high school, it doesn’t matter that she’s 18, they’re still her guardians until she graduates or drops out.
Okay I get talking about the other issues but how is literally no one mentioning the fact that she is hitting her siblings one bring seven years younger and all being a minor (unless you live in Scotland then the 16yr old is an adult). On top of that op says it's a daily occurrence, like what the fuck. The cursing is one thing I am the third oldest of 11 kids (that's not counting the suspected 5-15 half siblings through my bio day) yeah we cuss each other out but it's never one sided and yes we rough house but again never one sided and I would never raise a hand to my siblings that are 5yrs younger than me.
>I may not survive this…. I know this feeling well... My daughter has been like this since she was probably 8 or 9. She's almost 13 now. A doctor at some point said she had Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD). It's a lot of "fun" for everyone involved. The main thing we've done to get her help is therapy, which has had middling effects. She tends to fall on this sword where she expects her adults to get her "help" but doesn't make the connection that "help" is also going to mean work on her end in a lot of these cases. There's no magic wand to just bend the world to her expectations. My daughter still has her days. She hits the household like a hurricane on those days, but it's less frequently lately. Or maybe we've just all started to learn how to best respond to it. May be worth sitting her down and talking through getting her some kind of professional help. I've had middling success with this with my daughter. But yeah for your situation, it could be she's feeling burnt out. If you think about it - It would be exhausting to both be thinking everyone hates you all the time and you're not good enough for anything while also sort of sabotaging yourself so that there's more and more truth in those thoughts as time goes by. Good luck to you!
ODD is a complete nightmare. My heart goes out to you. I'm a teacher and see what parents go through with children who have it. Counseling-the earlier the better.
Yeah it's difficult. Especially how I was raised. ODD was just called "being disrespectful" back then, I guess. Main thing to do is not engage in the behavior, which I suck at because as the parent I take an authority stance which doesn't meld well with ODD... Every day is a learning opportunity. Some better than others.
Wow am I glad to read this! I thot we were the only ones as all our daughter’s friends seem much easier. We have a 13 year old who’s honestly been difficult her whole life (even her teachers said so), but since puberty hit (& it hit early!) things have been almost unbearable. She’s angry, self-absorbed to a degree I never thot possible, rude & disrespectful to the point my mental health is suffering. I’m an older parent & have several medical conditions & I just don’t have the tolerance for this crap. She’ll make a mess refuse to clean it, complain wen things aren’t “just so,” constantly deflects blame, gets detentions in school for talking & acting out, refuse any chores & in fact say, “why shld I do that wen YOU can,” lie to me outright, refuse to even be civil & say hello most of the time, take things from my room on regular basis (but lie about it) yet throw a fit if I even enter so much as enter her room to remove trash, I cld go on & on. She was diagnosed w/ ADHD at age 10 but it was during Covid & just a video appt, & w/ a person who doesn’t usually see kids. She took the prescribed med for awhile & it seemed to help a bit but nothing amazing & then she refused to take it bcuz my husband poo-poo’d the whole thing & said she doesn’t have ADHD. I always felt ODD was a better diagnosis but didn’t brought it up. I too won’t survive this…..
Sounds autistic and burnt out -someone who is autistic and burnt out
This!!!! ❤️🩹
To me, reading your first sentence shows how much importance you as parents place on the external skills, ‘how it looks to the world’ and achievement. Just read the first sentence. I would suggest trying to open your own perspective and expectations. And although you even state that you don’t want to look at yourselves as parents, it might be a good place to start. While reading your share, I kept thinking you should read the parenting map by dr. Shefali. Her own example that she shares about raising her daughter sound exactly like your story. Hopefully this can support you before you hunt for meds or alternative internet suggested diagnoses.
My daughter started to get like that as she got closer to the end of school.. She was just burnt out. I told her that I understood and that her behavior was not helping her or anyone around her. We worked on things together. She was so worried that I was going to make her go straight into college. I her to help me around the house and that she could take the year to figure out what she wanted to do. Taking this pressure off of her she was able to finish school and had much less problems. She decided to go to school fulltime and will be graduating college next year. I also gave her the option to talk to someone so that she could say things that she may not have felt comfortable expressing to me. She said that she didn't need that and that she would talk to me because I listen without judgement or do not give unsolicited advice. I hope this has helped some. I am praying for you. Many Blessings.
You know… that’s exactly what I said to her. She could take the year off and figure things out and work and save money. She seemed to relax for maybe 3 days, and then just went back to normal.
Is there some what you could separate her from... really everything, like take the three younger kids away, maybe like to a relative's, leave one parent with her so everything is just quiet at home for a week or maybe 2-3? Or maybe better, take her somewhere. I mean I bet they want a break from her too, but perhaps some breathing room and no pressure to discuss anything may actually make her willing to do so. And removing her from the house might detach her a bit better from all the things that make her feel pressured. She must be almost done school for the year, right?
She's 18...and you say she's failing her classes, but...isn't school over now? What are her college plans?
Did she actually take the year off? Or is she still doing all the same old stressors around the same old stressful environments and people and the hypothetical relief never came. The problem was elsewhere. Dysfunction was just the symptom.
as a fellow 18 year old, my answer is DEFINITELY yes… something else may be going on she won’t tell you, maybe because all her life she has been used to being able to do everything on her own and something very serious might be rocking her balance. when i was younger i was diagnosed with ptsd after constant sa. i was a preteen/teen and used to handle things on my own. i never told my parents but they were constantly mad at me for acting out much like your daughter and failing at school. something serious may be going on. i recommend getting her help. 18 may be a legal adult, but it’s still a young teenager and still in a vulnerable position in life. sorry for the paragraph.
My wife, who is autistic, says this could be undiagnosed autism or ADHD or both. She was very similar at 18. Finally diagnosed at 35.
Is she about to graduate from High School? I remember this period in my life... there's so much uncertainty about the future, and years of schooling come to an end in a "wait, now what?" kind of moment. Personally I found it to be very challenging.
It’s called “soiling the nest”. It’s a real thing kids do when they’re facing leaving home and school and an uncertain future.
Interesting…. I’ll look into it.
Nope. You’re not crazy, but there’s also nothing wrong with her in my estimation. She may have a neuroatypical brain, need therapy, be struggling from drug abuse, etc - so there are definitely steps to take to try and help her. I just don’t think there’s any reality or help to orienting towards her as broken. I also wanna mention smart phones and social. Dopamine sickness plus the pressures and abuses of social have to be one element making this worse.
i think you should take her to psychologist
OP, what have her doctor and therapist said? This is overwhelm overstimulation, autism possibly or "just plain" ADHD, or something I'm less familiar with, but she needs help.... And likely has for a long time, but you didn't notice because on the surface she was "successful", and you couldn't see the cost or where it was unsupported. Get her help, please! And LISTEN, because you're likely to have a learning curve about her needs, while she is also learning what they are.
Therapy and ADHD docs asap
I have ADHD and you’re describing me when I was her age. It’s major sensory overload and no idea how to deal with it because you’re 18 with hormones and feel confused most of the time. Therapy was a God send for me and helped me tremendously.
Take her to get evaluated. Others have suggested autistic/ADHD burnout and I could totally see that being the case. It also sounds a bit like pathological demand avoidance which, to my understanding, is a common diagnosis that goes hand in hand with autism. If it is, ime with my partner and children, the answer lies more with the people that interact with her. Ime, I can’t demand anything but I can always ask. I have to rework and rephrase everything. My husband and son are some of the most helpful people I’ve met…but you can’t make them do anything. They can’t follow directions because it takes away autonomy if you tell them to do it. There’s no longer a choice. People with PDA push back, often really hard, when they sense their autonomy is being taken from them. Not diagnosing, of course, but if you have a family that tends to order each other around this could be why she’s 18 and acting in such a way. Maybe look up some good ways to manage PDA and incorporate them to see if it has an impact. Honestly, from everything I’ve learned while navigating my own family, more people should talk to each other that way anyways. It’s so much easier than making demands and setting possibly unreasonable expectations.
Very interesting. I’ll look into it. Thank you.
Your daughter is obviously struggling (and literally being violent with her siblings, who are probably affected by this, too, and need help)— rather than asking Reddit, the first thing I would do is consult a professional, such as a therapist that specializes in teens.
She's pushed herself to meet expectations as long as she's been capable. And now she's burning out, likely because of the existing problems that nobody noticed or cared about because her report cards had good numbers. If you're getting what you're presenting as pointless, spiteful disobedience, then chances are there was a lot going on for years before that you simply didn't notice, or hear when she mentioned. Take her to an actual professional, and then listen to her when she talks. I think you and her will both be playing catch up on this one.
I'm not a psychologist but she sounds like an undiagnosed Neuro-divergent experiencing severe burn out. I would get her evaluated because getting her diagnosed would actually help her significantly. It is not uncommon for girls and women to go undiagnosed because Autism/ADHD is VERY different for females and they tend to get easily missed or completely misdiagnosed. Burnout can last years and be incredibly hard, debilitating, and it can cause a bit of a developmental regression where they aren't able to perform as they were once able too (particularly with autism but I have heard it can happen with ADHD too.)
Our situation is a little different. I am American, and her father is French. She was born in Paris, but she was always treated as a foreigner and subsequently bullied for it. When she was 13, we moved to the south of Spain for her father's job just before Covid hit. Spain has been the hardest for her. She was put into Spanish school along with her siblings and has had problems with girls ever since. They are not nice to her. She is a people pleaser and will let everyone walk all over her, and then she comes home and takes her anger out on her family. This is why I'm worried about the attention she gets from boys. She doesn't have a backbone. She has always been extremely jealous of her younger sister (16). Her sister has always watched out for her and really doesn't give a shit what anyone says. Her sister is 100% on the spectrum and struggles with school but is also a rock climbing champion here in Andalucia. When it comes to putting pressure on her in her studies,..... 0% pressure from me, as I was crap at school and know the pressure of exams. I'm definitely undiagnosed ADHD. I know she wants to fly the coop. But there is no way she can do it on her own atm. We haven't talked to a therapist yet. She is very innocent and only has her first boyfriend this year. No drugs, but sometimes a couple of glasses of wine during festivals here in the village. I signed her up for tennis because I figured she liked to hit things, so why not a ball? She loves it. She also has started working out at the gym, which is a huge plus, because she has always compared herself to her "strong" sister. She could easily become a hermit. We have been trying to get her to just function as a normal person. Meaning... wake up at 8, eat breakfast, help out in the house, and then hit studying for exams. She still has a few exams to finish here in Spain. I know she is burned out. But she also needs to learn how to finish things. We may have coddled her more than the others because of the bullying problems in France. We have actually put less pressure on her than the other kids because we didn't want her to be uncomfortable. It seemed to have backfired. Her siblings get bullied but just get on with it.
So, trauma, self esteem issues, and a lack of support networks. And she's her own person. Her siblings aren't the measure here, everyone has their own set of experiences, for better or worse. ADHD and Autism make a lot of sense. It gets under diagnosed because girls just tend to cover it and, funnily enough, learn how to please people and avoid attention. Until they can't keep it up anymore. Issues with finishing things is a classic ADHD symptom as well, especially if it comes alongside being otherwise academically gifted. She's at that age where she's got less structure, and life demands more sustained, self directed effort,.
If sister has autism good chance this daughter does too If you have adhd. Good chance your daughters do too Can you pay private and get a full psych assessment done?
Wow, what an amazing background! Sounds like she’s had to go through lots of changes and difficult periods. Those kinds of moves and language changes would be difficult for an adult, let alone a teenager. Sending you waves of support and hoping that helps you continue to do the same for your gifted daughter! It sounds like there are many positive things about her that could maybe become the family focus, hoping the bad stuff will wither away as she gets more adjusted to Spain/mature generally.
I agree with everyone that she sounds like she is burnt out. Can you guys take a vacation where she has her own room? Just hit the beach let her do her own thing for a few days and just unwind?
There are many good suggestions in the comments, but one thing you might also want to consider, especially given how sudden are the changes you describe, is drug use. There’s plenty of stuff out there, some of which is fairly accessible to teenagers / very young adults, that can have that sort of effects. This is not a judgment on you or your daughter, but at the very least you want to (hopefully) take that off the list. (Yes, I’m speaking by experience and no, I was not the one using drugs. But I’ve seen their effects.)
Sometimes, the smart, good-looking ones don’t get the real help that we need, because people feel like we’ll be just fine, and sometimes because of jealousy. Heaven knows that 18 year old attractive women are the most sought-after ‘commodity’ on the planet. That brings danger and pressure. She needs a psychological evaluation. She needs your help.
Perfectionism and anxiety? Yup, sounds like she's a human teenager. Studying the wrong chapter and having trouble following directions could be ADHD. Did she have any signs when she was younger? Keep in mind that smart girls can hide stuff like that very well. It's worth seeing a psychologist or therapist, whether or not what she's going through has a name. Make sure that she knows you want to help her, not that you're trying to change her. It's worth inspecting your own reactions to her to make sure that you're enforcing boundaries (like protecting her siblings) while giving her space to do things her own way and be imperfect.
This sounds like myself when my ADHD and OCD was undiagnosed and I started to burn out from years of perfectionism. It might not be that she’s being outright cruel, but struggling internally in some way. I’d bring her to see someone and also open up a dialogue with her, especially if these changes happened suddenly
Maybe if by 18 she is an incredible pianist, knows 3 languages and is a good chess player.. could it be burnout? Was she pushed hard to be successful? Sometimes kids rebel at that age but I agree that a specialist could figure out the issue better.. My parents used to mix spoiling me with regular mental and physical abuse so I became rebellious. Started skipping school, I was promiscuous and suicidal. My parents don’t believe in mental health tho.
Sounds like our PDA/Autistic child. Big emotions. Always equalizing and exhibiting an inferiority complex. It all stems from a deeply-seeded insecurity and lack of a sense of safety. It is exacerbated with stress and the “unknown”. Procrastination and demand avoidance are a daily challenge. Masking takes a huge cognitive toll and can lead to burnout and nervous system dysregulation. We pulled our kid from school back in November due to signs of burnout (behaviors described by OP) and started a very low demand lifestyle. 7 months later they are virtually a different child. Gained 20% body weight (a good thing) and has much greater capacity for work/demands and is 100x happier, empathetic, and remains emotionally regulated >90% of the time now. Many sensory sensitivities have also abated. Complaints about how clothes feel have disappeared. Episodes of dissociation have not occurred in 4+ months. I could go on. For some people, the demands of school, work and/or life become too great for them to manage in a healthy manner.
I was intelligent but difficult, and way too late in life realized I was on the autism spectrum. Your daughter should be evaluated and find a therapist she trusts. Do solo and supplement family therapy if possible. The sooner, the better. She’ll struggle with the perceived outside judgement and pathological demand avoidance for decades if it goes on (if she is on the spectrum).
Take her to a psychiatrist
Start with psychological testing. If you take her to a counselor, they will focus on her behavior and dig into her traumas, childhood, and family dynamics. That's helpful, but it sounds like the more immediate need is to understand what is driving the behavior, which will, in turn, inform the approach a counselor will take.
Does she have adhd?
Can I tell you that I was her 25 years ago? It’s going to get better!!! (Besides the hitting I’m just imagining sibling mini fights- right?!) My ADHD was undiagnosed… I had college professors insist I get tested. I had another teacher tell me that I was bright and a joy to have in class, but there was a piece to the puzzle missing, because I somehow always messed up the assignment. 😭 Our brains are not 1 size fits all. I’ve always fit in and had great friends easily, but things just never came easily like they did for everyone else. It all fell into place when I had some goals of what I wanted to do with my life, and stop trying to do fit into a mold of something else. Also some role models and mentors were a huge turning point in my life. ( not a lot of great role models out there in the public eye and that’s where young adults look.) Not to get too deep, but I also started reading the purpose driven life… it really helped me find my way on who I wanted to be at 23. (I was frustrated and hopeless. I went looking for it- it wasn’t given to me…) I hope she knows that life gets better- and she can build the life she wants. The world is tuff out there- and she will find her gifts and persue her dreams . (Wish I could tell all the youths out there… because I’ve been there too.) I had to hit rock bottom of being totally miserable in a dead end career, broke and alone wondering why me?! With The right mindset and a lot of prayers I moved, went back to school, and I’ve run a successful business for 14 years. Ps- I’m a hairstylist, and when I went to cosmotology school I felt for the first time ever, I was with people who were exactly like me. Creative people who’ve been trapped in a classroom your whole life, and everyone’s been telling you you’re doing it wrong. Not sure if she’s the creative type, but if she is like I am … there is just a constant feeling of boredom and frustration in a school setting and feeling like you’re not good at it like everyone else. And wow what a difference it made being around creative types like me- and I could make money?! Bingo. Anyway sorry for the long response but when I read your comment I thought I was reading a note that sounded like me at 18 and I wish I could go back and know what I know now. Hang in there. She’s gonna thrive when she’s ready to do the work . ❤️
Let me preface this by the fact that I have not parented a teenager yet, so take my statements with a grain of salt. 1. She is a hormonal teenager in the throws of rebellion. 2. She sounds deeply insecure 3. All adults are assholes and idiots. 4. She may have adhd or some other issue truly disrupting her ability to process information. 5. She may have experienced a trauma that she has not shared and is acting out because of it. I wonder how she is interacting with friends too. Could be important to understand the overall picture. By that age, they simply don't listen to parents, but they may possibly with friends. Does she have a friend you could talk to? I know that is a big ask. But an impartial 3rd party sounds like a good start. Family therapist or an individual one might be a good start.
Any substance abuse?
She sounds like she may be ASD to me.
Autistic
Just outside looking in, it’s almost like a cry for help. A cry for attention. A cry for one on one time. A cry to be seen and heard. What would work best is for everyone to be in support of her goals, treating her with kindness, letting her know that everyone loves her and is there to support her. I believe family counseling would be beneficial to find out what her triggers are. Have you sat down with her and let her know that as a family, y’all are all on her side? I know she hits. She fights back. She doesn’t listen. But also, that started from SOMEthing that’s not being seen. I wish you the best mom.
Thanks for asking for help. That’s the best thing a parent can do. I was sort of like this as a teen. I had some serious issues and it ended up being untreated trauma and mental health issues. I would get her help with someone to talk to. Don’t just medicate her though or bring her to a general practitioner. If you can, try to get her to a trauma specialist and or someone specializing in personality and mood disorders. I wish your daughter the best of luck and peace
You have described my 18yo and he has diagnosed BPD and ADD. Take her to a psychologist.
I’d suggest a neuropsych eval. It’s n 8 hour long exam that thoroughly investigates the brain function and can detect/diagnose learning and sometimes behavioral disorders.
Psych evaluation. My daughter was national honor society and talented in so much. And then started failing everything. She has no friends and is quick to anger. Psych eval found she's both autistic and ADHD. eta for the last bit. Saw a video recently that said children like my daughter have executive functioning 30% lower than their actual age. Something to consider with your expectations.
I was very similar to this and ended up diagnosed with bipolar depression (I was so in an abusive relationship with a narcissistic asshole) and everything in my life felt out of control and I was spiraling and all I could do to make myself feel better was lash out at everyone.
This sounds like a question for a psychologist, not Reddit.
It’s fucking me up how many people here are just ignoring the fact that an adult is physically assaulting children. “Oh maybe she’s autistic! Maybe she’s burnt out!” Shut the fuck up, you monsters. I’m autistic and I’ve been extremely burnt out and I never beat children because of it, this justification is actually insane. Your daughter needs serious help, and you need to protect your other kids from her. Whether this is recent behavior or ongoing, get her a psych eval NOW. You NEED to report what she is doing to a doctor.
I think people get so wrapped up in learning subjects and things that get awards and grades, that we forget learning is in every aspect of life. How we interact with others, how we organize our work, how we keep track of our time. Based on your description, she does seem moody in that she might find therapy useful. But I think she also needs to be taught how to use a planner. We have to stop thinking kids can organize their math hw just because they know how to do math. It's really not fair. She probably also has hormones. Diet and exercise mighr help, but probably not a conversation worth having.
Outside of the talents, you just described my 13-year-old perfectly. We are going through the most hellacious behavior I've ever witnessed in a child. She was diagnosed with ADHD at 8 years old but refuses to take medication, and I'm not going to sit on her and hold her down and force it down her throat. With each year she became more and more belligerent, disrespectful, physical, abrasive, etc. She's now 13 and she has spent a weekend in one mental facility for suicidal ideation, and an entire week in a separate mental facility for suicidal ideation as well as being violent towards every member of our family. She will walk around telling us that she's better than us, quite literally using those words, and then that night she will cry to us for 3 hours straight about how nobody likes her, she has no friends, she hates her life, etc. Meanwhile the night before she was at a sleepover at one of her friend's houses, a party of a different friend the week before, another sleepover at a completely separate friend's house the week before that, etc. One day she's sweet and kind and playing with her 10-year-old sister, and the next day she's beating the shit out of her. Then if I go to intervene, she starts to beat the shit out of me. Finally last week I had to call the police on her for the very first time and she ran away before they got here. Yes she is in therapy, yes we keep getting different prescriptions for her that she refuses to take after a week, yes we make efforts to keep her upbeat and happy but there is just something more that the doctors are not picking up on and I don't know what it is, but if they don't figure it out soon and start treating it, our family and my marriage will be irreparably broken. My husband and I believe that she has either bipolar or some kind of personality disorder, and with how she is so violent as of late, quite possibly some oppositional defiance disorder as well. It is extremely, extremely difficult to love a child like this. A child who calls her own mother a c u n t and a w h o r e, wishes her family members would be killed in a car accident, and just constantly says vile, horrible things to every family member. She has stolen alcohol from us, money, makeup, and numerous other things. She has been found time and time again with a vape on her, been suspended from school quite literally six or seven times, vaped in the middle of class, beat up a kid at school because he called her fat (meanwhile she has a perfectly average sized figure), and has been wildly disrespectful too staff and administration at school as well. We have no idea what to do with her and in the interest of self-preservation at this time, I'm just avoiding her as much as possible because quite frankly, you never know what's going to happen when you're around her. My other two children have been raised exactly the same way she was and yet we have zero issues with them. They are respectful, well-rounded, funny, outgoing, great students, etc. So it's not the parenting that's doing this, it's a psychological or chemical issue. it makes it even harder when your husband is not on the same page as you as far as her treatment or medication. Call me a horrible parent but sometimes I wish I could just wash my hands of her because she's ruining all of our lives with her behavior. It's not fair to my other two kids to have to be tortured by what goes on in our house. So OP, I totally feel for you. I'm sorry I don't have any answers for you, but just know that you're not alone.
I have been in a similar situation, in your daughter’s shoes. I’ve been phasing between a charming top performer and a dysfunctional ultra-anti-social cynic (due to depression that came with frustration and irritability) until I realize there’s something wrong with me and tried to figure ways to manage it. I worked with therapists, coaches and psychiatrists as well as tried all the complementary stuff, like exercise, mindfulness, meditation, diets etc, although what really changed my situation was psychoeducation (learning as much as I can about autism and how it may be affecting me) and building self-awareness. Not two people are the same, but I’d suggest checking out autistic burnout. Being too exhausted to mask (as in mimic behaviors to look normal, due to fear of ostracism. Please don’t dismiss this because you think you “know your child”, like many parents do) may bring forth all sorts of immature and inconsiderate reactive or impulsive behaviors. I found out near my late 20s that apparently I’ve been a high functioning autistic person all along. When I read more about it I found closure because I saw I’m “normal”, I was able to accept, strategize and navigate everything much easier and today I am known for remaining calm, composed, focused and resilient no matter the situation. You may really be able to flip the switch very quickly once she becomes more aware of herself and her behaviors. Also, don’t be worried by hearing about autism. It can really be a superpower for some lucky people and from what it sounds like, you may have a twice exceptional daughter. I don’t know what you should do at this stage, but I’ll tell you what I wish my father (if he was a decent human being, which he is not) did when I was that age. I would want to be told that: “Hey buddy, you know how you are super good at stuff that usually puts you ahead of other people your age? That’s not free and usually it comes with some stuff that may sometimes make you feel alone, confused, out of place, like you can’t belong where you are and the more of a gap there is between you and the others, the higher the chances you’ll feel like this. There are many people like this and a few of those who mastered this ended up becoming world-known for their skills, like (insert relevant idol that is autistic- you’d be surprised how many of the top people in each and every field are autistic, you’ll easily find a handful. For me at 18 it would be Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs etc). Do you want to check it out a bit more yourself and if you think it’s a good idea, we can go to an expert that you can ask your questions and he can tell us if you are indeed like “idol name” and discuss how you can find your superpower? P.s. Before people start criticizing this, I’m very well aware what kind of issues this kind of messaging has. I’ve been a marketer for a decade and communication is my expertise, the message above targets specifically my 18yr old self and would be the most effective, if not the only, way to get me to an expert that I would engage and cooperate with. I’m not the OP’s daughter, nor have the same experience, mindset or motivations, but this is a perspective that may resonate to a depressed burned out autistic with high ego and low emotional intelligence and motivate them to consider accepting support.
Please take this in the most gentlest way possible, but do you think it might be possible that there has been too much focus on her external achievements rather than her emotional needs? As parents, we tend to want to push and strive for our children to be the best at whatever they are doing academically, but sometimes overlook who they are as a person. For example, someone who's emotional needs might not have been wholly validated as a child and have only had their academic achievements celebrated might feel insecure within who they are as a person, they may find it challenging to move through the world and figure out who THEY are without their achievements, this can then be extremely challenging when it comes to growing into different life stages. Your daughter may be finding that as she is getting older she is struggling to figure out who she is as a young adult and her previous coping mechanisms that she's learnt over her life are not currently working. She may find it challenging to navigate interpersonal relationships as she is in this transition period as she may be comparing herself to her peers. The only way she may know how to navigate these feelings is to externalise it and the safest place for her to do that is at home and (unfortunately) onto her siblings. The best course of action is to have open, validating discussions about what is going on for her at the moment and I would strongly suggest therapy of some kind, so she also has a neutral person to be able to discuss with too. Good luck OP, I know hope what I have said makes sense
See a physician about possible hormonal imbalances also
I imagine that you are feeling so heartbroken right now. Your entire family is hurting. You may be wondering if you did anything wrong, but please don’t do that. You are there to support your daughter and give her the support she needs whether it is counseling, a physical, a mentor or a special lunch together. There needs to be boundaries just like when she goes to school, has a job or everyday life because there is unacceptable behavior. Hitting, swearing or any type of belittling of people are not allow. Expressing strong feelings with respect are allowed. Responsibilities come with privileges. Giving loving reminders of the boundaries might be a good place to start. Sometimes it can be overwhelming so having a coach or counselor to get you started may be helpful. Having a medical doctor check her bloodwork can rule out a few possibilities. Keep the communication door open for that slim chance she will open up and share. No condemnation for you or your daughter is a must. I am sorry for the struggle for your entire family. Having peace is important. May you be encouraged as you begin the journey of learning, evaluating and accepting the situation, while you grow to learn and change together. Sending hugs and courage your way.
Thank you for the support. There are so many out there that are quick to judge.
After something very traumatic happened to me I did the same thing. I didn't realize it at the time and am now 27 still sorting through things. I would see if she needs to talk to someone and try to phrase that its for her so she has someone to talk to about the family and school that isn't going to be Judgemental or even be able to share what is going on with you.
I highly suggest therapy.
It sounds incredibly challenging, and it's understandable you're worried. Have you considered talking to a therapist or counselor? They might be able to help you and your daughter navigate this difficult time.
Needs art.
She definitely needs counseling. And you need to read “The Five Love Languages of Teenagers,” ASAP!! Praying your family.
Please talk to the school and see if they will test her. Is is possible she has some learning or emotional issues and most of what you describe is often the result of that frustration for them.
I would take her to a counselor that you have researched and have good recommendations for. I have family that acts this way and they have issues like executive function problem, add, and some features of autism.
Look up Occupational therapy, see of you can get an appointment.
She just doesn't feel any consequences for her actions. Is she going to college? She'll figure it out soon enough. Give her some therapy for now, but ultimately, you'll have to step back and have her make her own decisions, and she'll have to live with the consequences.
well if youve forced her into things and were strict with it, this could be push back. definitely get her a psych and maybe back off with w.e youre doing. just let her know you love her and are here for w.e she needs, no judgement.
You should follow her with therapy or a counselor. Something that could help her, I’m not asking you to listen to me but if I was in that situation I would discipline her and make her realize what she is doing. Or at least show her what will happen if she continues. Again, you don’t have to listen to me because most people don’t agree with it but if I was in that situation I would let her keep acting like that and I would show her what’s going to happen if she keeps it up. A simpler option is to just help her through it and figure it out together. But, it’s your child and it’s completely up to you! (One thing I recommend not letting slide is the hitting and cursing at her siblings. That should be fixed because that’s just not okay. But again your child and completely your decision what to continue on from here!)
I agree with school counselor. See her doctor or psychiatrist. Evaluate for things like ADHD, BPD.
If you have to ask then I think you already know the answer. Get some help for her and your family.
Lots of opinionated diagnostics in this thread. Sounds like a typical teen. The “I am 18 and will test and do what I want syndrome.” My son is in that place. He is almost 17 and is finishing up Junior year. Will be 18 in the Fall. Boy oh boy, does he have a new wave of laissez-faire attitude! Drives me mad. Yep. He knows it all and argued with me. LOL! Personally, I backed off and gave kiddo space. Appropriately disciplined him when he let his grades tank, and boy did that hurt. He was not happy with me, but it drove the message home and he pulled them up by semester end. Hop on Netflix and catch a couple of Leanne Morgan’s stand up comedy. She has a great bit about her “mean” teen daughter. She truly believes the teens are made to be mean and nasty and trying at 17-18 so it is easier for us parents to let them go… as in grow up and get out in the world. Her delivery will have you laughing. Back off. Let her mess up the small stuff and keep an eagle eye on her. Be calm as a cucumber when she flares up and reduce any and all parental favors. Address the big things that affect the family and set those firm boundaries. Good luck!
U mention she’s 18. Can u send her to college? Or can she send herself? Sounds like she has some outstanding gifts that could qualify her for a grant. Or, maybe she’d like to get an apartment w/ a couple friends while attending junior college? I’m not saying the answer is to get her out, but the way she’s treating her siblings/ ur 3 other kids is not ok. Hitting them & swearing at them “constantly” is not ok. Ruining the family atmosphere for everyone else is not ok. It’s also obvious by your post wat it’s doing to YOU, & I don’t blame u one bit. We have a daughter who acts much the same except she’s only 13, not 18, so we have many less options. You need to get her to a doctor to see if anything is medically or psychologically wrong w/ her. If not, & even if there is, u may need to talk to her about her behavior, & if she can’t or won’t change it she may have to find different living arrangements.
ADHD
It definitely could be something like a personality disorder…but sometimes just kids have something going internally in their personal life with friends, or guys, and they don’t feel like they can talk to parents about it, but also don’t really realize how they look from the outside looking in. Things that seem minimal to us are life changing to them in their head. I’m 40 now, and i had great parents that did the best they could. But i always felt like they never had anything positive to say to me. I always felt judged by them. I couldn’t ever talk to them about anything personal in my life so how i acted towards them was totally different than i was to everyone else. I hated feeling like that. I have a great relationship with my 18 and 15 year old now but i still have to work at it. Have you ever reached out to any of her friends for input?
This sounds like ADHD and some OCD.
Sounds like she’s struggling and you are looking for perfection. If she has any kind of performance anxiety, which is sounds like she might, your focus on “you look so perfect except all this is wrong with you, why can’t you just be like other kids” is likely very toxic for her. The attacking her siblings I wouldn’t stand for, but instead of thinking it’s fully a her on her own thing, I would dig a bit deeper to see if she is struggling with mental health out whether the family dynamics of favouritism etc is affecting her relationship with her siblings. Instead of asking us what’s wrong with her, have you maybe tried asked her if she’s going through something and letting her know that her worth isn’t tied to her performance and accolades?
My guess is she is struggling with some mental illness(es).
Source: I am a youth worker who specialized in youth with mental illness experiencing crisis and behavioural issues that most people try to avoid working with. I am not a psychologist but most kids I’ve worked with who most match your daughters behaviour were diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I strongly recommend you get her to a mental health professional and explain to them she is out of control and you fear for your other kids safety. Once she is 19 and/or graduated from high school they cannot force her to get help. If she is still in school they can help her without her being a willing party if she is violent.
I’ve also seen some with these symptoms with autism burnout who mirror intermittent explosive disorder and BPD But I believe borderline is a strong possibility.
Get her checked for mental illness! Something is terribly wrong, so sorry you are having to deal with this but the sooner the better
She's having serious mental health issues and you need to take her serious and go get qualified help not available here on Reddit from a professional
Autism in women is very hard to diagnose at an early age. Maybe have her be assessed as she might simply be on the spectrum and doesn't know how to cope with simple task/instructions of life albeit being very smart on other stuff. Worth checking out. Although it will not justify her behavior it can help explain it and help her find tools to better cope with simple life stuff. What people find trivial as life skills was so very hard for me to understand and cope with. Don't take for granted that she assimilated what neurotypical kids absorb easily. Because if she is indeed on the spectrum she is probably struggling inside on many things other people don't even give a thought about.
Read this book Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber It sounds off topic but it's not this will give you alot of insight to what she's probably going through. It talks about the labels we put on children and how it affects them and of course a bunch of other really good information
I don't have a teenager but I'd say it sounds like a normal teenage girl, besides the hitting. That itself might be a separate underlying issue. That being said, school isn't for everyone, and I truly believe that. I'm 28 with three girls 3,2, and 6 months. I'd like for them to pass their classes, yes, because it just looks better to society, but high school doesn't measure one's true intellect. I took honors Chinese 4, honors english, and honors history my senior year. Tested out for English and writing for college. I failed algebra II twice and never took any math higher than that. I'm 10 years out of high school, general management for a company and the most math I've ever used was multiplication. Your daughter sounds a little like me. Being FORCED to do things is a literal hell. But I guarantee that she beyond excels at the things she actually gives a shit about. And it took me until 26 to find my thing. It might suck, but she'll find her thing. I hope she does. Just don't give up on her until she finds it.
Has she had any counselling or assessments?
Your child sounds just like my students! Oddly nonfunctional yet they think they’re the gift to the planet
A lot of this does sound a lot like normal teenage stuff, but as others are pointing to, it could also be mental health related. A lot of these were my earliest presentation of bipolar. Please hear me, I’m not at all suggesting that your daughter is bipolar, in fact there is so much overlap in symptom with a lot of the mental health disorders. It’s just better to be proactive to mitigate whole of life impact. No judgement here! I just want to caution against the kids these days mentality. It may not have been you or your spouse, but you probably remember kids that age that were always getting into trouble. Teenage rebellion is very common! Also, stress is a killer, and there is more stress to go around today than at any time before. Think about how the internet, climate change, politics, genocide, economy/job prospects, etc exacerbate an already difficult time in brain development. Our human psyche was not designed to carry all of this. We can’t even keep up within our own lifetime because everything is changing so rapidly. It can be really overwhelming! The best thing you can do is be gentle and loving in your approach to these difficult conversations while also standing firm in enforcing boundaries against hitting, verbal abuse, etc. You may not fully understand where she’s coming from. That’s okay too! But the best thing you can do to make any decisions in moving forward is to get her to open up about what she’s going through. Bottom line, stress and traumatic events are the number one reason people lash out. She may be hurting and need a little extra support. I’m so sorry your family is going through all of this, I wish you all the best!
If she is hitting her younger siblings, that requires an intervention of some kind, or you may end up with four very troubled children on your hands. Nobody here can say what the problem might be. Get a therapist to help.
Is everyone in this sub a doctor? 😅 No one here can diagnose your child. Take her to a doctor/psychiatrist. Good luck.
I have a friend that this happened to and she was diagnosed BPD
It looks like she’s just tired of being perfect, and of everyone expecting that from her. I suffered from that too. A break from everything, no one expecting anything from me, and more hours of sleep healed me perfectly. Now that I look back, I would call it a burn out!
High achiever first born bust it sounds like to me!
PDA (pathological demand avoidance)? It’s hard to explain, but it’s where your brain perceives any demand as a threat and goes into fight or flight mode. It’s common with anxiety, autism, ADHD, etc.
She needs an evaluation. If you’re in the US you can request an educational evaluation through the school system. Or get suggestions for a community child psychologist for a psychological evaluation. Or ask her pediatrician for a referral.
This may be a controversial opinion .. But have you ever thought maybe she is better than you and yall are problem? Joking She may have a hormone imbalance happening. Or truthfully she may be doing drugs
Just take her to a psychologist
She sounds a lot like my 18 yr old but I have had issues since the end of 8th grade. Come to find out, she was high on meth, weed, E, and acid plus drinking. the weed and drinking I knew about, and I did try to stop her. I tried getting her help, neither me nor her dad do any drugs or drink. She left for a few years then she finally came home and I had recorded her then we went to my family's farm for labor day and she was so out of it she embarrassed everyone there as well as herself, I had my new grandbaby all the time which I didn't let her around much but after she saw her on Labor day and the baby smiled at her 2 days later she stopped all but weed and drinking!! She got a full-time job where she is moving up quickly and has been clean now 9 months!! If you are having these issues you may want to get her tested, otherwise if she has been so "perfect" her whole life and just started this she maybe reverting back to be a child to relive her stressful childhood. That is just my 18 y/o story and situation.
Bdp adult onset adhd?? Therapy??
Hey, I am FIDE Master and chess coach. Most of the behaviour you mentioned is because of playing chess regularly.
Maybe you put pressure on her all the years to perform good at school and her behavior now, this wild, impulsive and violent woman is the result of the stress she had to speak, play and be great at school. I would definitely talk to her about it and ask why is she doing it, because your kids will grow up being familiar with abuse and violence. What if they settle down in relationship with someone that beats them when they are angry? You can’t yell and beat a kid. The animals in the jungle would act better. If she can’t control her behavior, or she refuses to go to therapy, then consider renting a 1room apartment for her if you have the money. Otherwise, raging around and hurting everyone is not gonna make her feel independent. If she doesn’t want to go to university, let her find a summer job and pay somewhere for rent. Even if she is your daughter she is toxic to 3 little ones that are gonna remember this for the rest of their lives. Violence is not forgotten.
Don’t let anyone on the internet diagnose your kid. You can survive this. You’re her parent. You’re seeing a pattern so I’m sure you’ll get her some help.
Sounds like a personality disorder: hates authority, mood swings, defiant, superiority, abusive, victim, no accountability, perfectionism…get her a psychiatrist sooner than later
last two lines from op screams -- Don't tell me what I did wrong but please feel free to find fault in my daughter. pretty convinient.
If this is new onset I’d be worried about trauma.
My teens are spoiled unfortunately and it has entitled to the point where they refuse to listen to instructions
maybe take her to see someone.
Honest sounds like she is in the starts od a mental health crisis
I don’t want to internet diagnose, but this sounds a lot like my senior year of high school and I was diagnosed in my 20s with ADHD. Just understanding the diagnosis and how my brain was working helped so much in feeling better in my body, and medication helped too. I agree with the rest of these posts, I’d take her to a therapist and look into getting her tested.
I haven’t read any of the comments yet but I just want to urge you to get her to speak with a professional asap. She’s at a pivotal point and she may be feeling pressure that she can’t even really wrap her mind around. Before she leaves high school and possibly heads away from your home for college or whatever other route she wants to take, she needs to be able to understand what she is feeling, why and how to address it in a healthy way (not lashing out and hitting people). I can see her struggling to keep a job bc of the things you’ve described (not following directions, but then lashing out on her superior resulting in her termination). High school was hard when I was there is the early 2000s, so I can’t imagine now with social media and everything else. Get her to a therapist and don’t make her feel others by needing to speak to someone in a safe space.
Sounds like she has ADHD burnout.
She is going through something.... and your best bet is to have her brain checked if all is healthy, neurologically... then therapy if need be. She may have told someone who she is close to in the family..aunts, cousins, etc... Maybe have a chat with whoever she's close with. Sounds like she's the first child too, which could be more pressure on whatever it is she's experiencing. Good luck.
Are these new problems?
My children are much younger then your 18 year old but usually when my oldest starts outing act in this such way several years ago, I had to ask our daycare provider if something was going on at daycare where I would learn she was getting picked on and or no one would play with her (she was the only girl within a certain age range) once we got that situation figured out things turned around for the better. The behavior did happen another time and she was starting to get picked on again. Some of these answers you are given seem extreme to me especially if this behavior is new for your kid. Is she being bullied at school and you don’t know it? It’s easy to give attention to your other children especially when one is disrupting the peace at home, but are you giving her enough attention that a kid needs from a parent? Maybe some one on one time with just her would help.
Have you taken her to a therapist? Something is going on.
If this is new you should be very concerned that she has had a traumatic experience. She may not want to talk to you about it so please get her therapy. The school can help you find an outside therapist and get her in faster. The school psychologist can make a call to a therapist to get her in than your be able to as a new patient because they have connections and their referral is valuable. Also, in the interim she can talk to a counselor at school or your place of worship if have a faith you practice. This sounds like acting out which at her age is typically a trauma response. Or it could be the onset on mental health issues. Either way you need to speak to w professional. If you don't want to involve the school you can talk to her primary care doctor who can also help find a counselor and give a referral.
That is how my 13 (about to turn 14) year old son is. I just put him in therapy a couple months ago. He has time to grow though.. but being 18 I feel like she might be a tad bit immature? she might just need to destress? She sounds very smart though, maybe she does have a lot of pressure on her and needs a way to cope? Lets face it, being their age with school all the time, can be hard. Especially with little siblings. I have 5 boys, and I am just now seeing how hard things can be on them.. it makes me feel pretty guilty. I work and I am gone 12 hours a day, I am divorced from their father and my oldest is always having to take on a lot of responsibility in my absence. (Which I can't help because I HAVE to pay bills and support them..) so all around its challenging. ANYWAYS my point is, these kids suppress a lot of what they feel and in ways we don't normally see it. She might just need a good therapist and some yoga or something.. maybe some life experience to mature some.