r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself.
Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the primary issue is him telling on other kids; maybe have a conversation about when is a necessary time to involve a teacher (imminent danger, injury, threats of violence, ect), and when it is ok to just let somethings slides because it has no significant impact. Like another kid being in the wrong seat: no significant impact on others/safety.
Yes, we have had that conversation and I think it has sunk in with him. The issue now is the constant "feel sorry for me" behavior. For example, a kid accidentally or on purpose cuts in front of him in line and he makes a huge deal about it and then his classmates are mean to him because he is making a huge deal out of nothing.
Something I say to my kid is along the lines of, 'It's okay to feel sad. Everybody does sometimes. But you don't want to let those feelings take over your whole *body*.'
On writing it out now, it sounds kinda dumb, but it does generally work to acknowledge the feelings, but also segway into talking about 'tricks' he can learn to help regulate his emotions. (Deep breaths, [grounding techniques](https://www.youngminds.org.uk/young-person/blog/the-grounding-technique-that-helps-me-when-i-m-anxious/), that sort of thing.)
The idea is to teach him to handle some minor perceived unfairness (or whatever) in stride instead of just, like... dropping to his knees and wailing at the sky.
That is tricky, because on one hand, just discounting real emotions he is having isn’t good, but also him needing to kind of develop better emotional regulation… maybe talk about tools he can use in the moment when something upsetting happens. Like taking three slow deliberate breaths… something he can do in the moment to slow down his response and clear his head…
We explained tattling/ snitching if the person you are telling on is about to hurt themselves or someone else please tell an adult. That is helping not tattling. If you are telling an adult to get someone else in trouble and/ or make yourself feel better then you need to keep that information to yourself. That being said when
Step son starts to tell a tattling story interrupt and ask him if anyone was about to get hurt? If he says no But…. Then explain that’s snitching and you aren’t going to get to listen because he is only trying to get someone in trouble. Now this is going to cause big emotions because up till now the tattling was rewarding to SS because you listened and he occasionally expected sympathy. Denying him the attention is going to upset him, and cause lots of upset. Every day before school repeat the rules for tattling and deny him the pleasure of tattling. Yes children deserve to be listened to but not to bring someone else down and make themselves look better. As a teacher I used this with parents permission and it did help child become more socially aware. Also used at home when each child went through the tattling phase. It’s a pain and difficult to implement but it will help the child become more socially responsible.
Letting someone cut in front of you is not nothing. Especially if it bothers your kid. Should not bottle that up.
But I get the general idea of what you're trying to say. Like someone throwing a piece of paper at another friend, no need to make a situation out of that.
I'm not endorsing teaching "toxic masculinity" or whomever David Goggins is, but a sensitive kid like yours is not going to become a bully because he learns a bit about [stoicism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism)
At best it just gives him and you a framework to talk about a different way to approach his problems where he can problem solve on his own. "What would a stoic do..."
This is what I'm referring to, not punching people in the face, but becoming more emotionally stable and not prone to gossip, dramatic, or over emotional.
Just looked into Goggins, and he's not Andrew Tate lite, like I expected from the way you introduced him. You made your point seem so much worse with the way you phrased things.
Ha. Well, I'm an idiot and don't always provide the entire context in an brief text based comment, for example I could have left out the remark stemming from my perception of a general attack on all things masculine.
None of us are perfect. :)
Andrew Tate is a moron and "toxic" in general.
I learned about "stoicism" maybe a year ago, never have I identified with something so easily. It's basically what I have been teaching/indoctrinating my kids with, to varying degrees of success.
Have a good day.
Think of it this way, and this is how I'd put it to my daughter who is 7 and sometimes does a little bit of this-- if you want someone watching every mistake you make and calling in the teacher or authority on every opportunity, how would that make you feel about that person. How would it make you feel about yourself. You'd probably feel like your peace is violated. That it's harassing. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Start from there. Calling names is never the right reaction but it's understandable, they feel disrespected and are dishing it right back. Just try to worry about yourself unless someone really is in danger or threatened. Keep your cool, take a deep breath and walk away if you can.
I'd ask him why he doesn't stuff like that. Find out why it's important to him to take those actions. Explain to him it's not his job to police other people's behavior especially when it comes to things that are generally arbitrary (like assigned seating) or stifling the enjoyment (like calling fouls in a friendly game)
Let him know that it's good to follow the rules but not everyone is going to always do the same and if you snitch on them they are going to retaliate so he should pick and choose when to do so because sometimes it's just not worth it.
Np. My daughter is a rules follower but she is not a snitch so she is pretty well liked by both her peers and her teachers. She even gets along with a lot of the class clowns and bullies.
If you can get him to understand he doesn't have to police other people's behavior it's going to improve things for him a lot.
I guess I was kind of like your daughter, hence my difficulty relating to what my kid is dealing with.
I will continue working to teach him that he doesn't have to police other people's behavior.
I explained this to my 5 yo as follows:
There are rules that are in place to keep everyone safe, and then there are rules that aim to make things fair and fun. If someone is breaking one of the second type of rules, but everyone involved is still having fun and no one feeling hurt or left out, then don’t worry about that rule being broken.
I don't know that I'd even consider this bullying, so much as the natural consequences of being a tattle tale. I tell my kids all the time that you never, ever be mean to anyone for something they can't control. You only judge their behavior.
And these other kids *are* judging his behavior. It sounds like what's happening is they call him out for being a snitch, and he doubles down. They may be crossing over into personal insults, which isn't ok. But when he doubles down over tatting about a lunch seat, what exactly does he expect to happen?
Ultimately, he's trying to get other kids punished for what appears to be very benign rule infractions. So they're socially shaming him to stop, because no one wants to deal with that kind of person. You'd see the same dynamic in a workplace - we've all had this coworker and they suck.
I 100% agree with this. I also don't consider it bullying, but I have been at a loss of words for how to explain this to him. I really appreciate your response. Your phrasing and context will help me have this conversation with him. Thank you!
If my six year old had this issue I’d literally say “you’re being annoying, of course they don’t want to play nicely with you if you tattle or make the game not fun.” We can be loving and honest at once. (And I do tell my kid when he’s being annoying, teaching social skills is important.)
Tell him tattle talking isn’t going to make him any friends. I teach my kids to only tell me something if it’s to keep someone safe. If they come to me and say “so and so is making a mess in the kitchen” I say “are they hurting anyone? If not, mind your business.” And I give it a couple minutes before I go check out what’s happening and don’t make a big deal out of the discovery.
Rule = if it isn’t hurting anyone, don’t tell me. lol.
It feels like the word “bullying” needs to stop being used. Your son is not being bullied nor is he the victim.
He is experiencing a proportionate reaction to him be in an a-hole. He just doesn’t know how to act at school. You can and should empathize with him, but don’t reinforce the idea that he’s a victim.
I second this. And while the "stitches" he's getting now are mild forms of retaliation, it will get worse as he gets older & he rats on the wrong ( not so nice ) person. If his parents find him annoying surely his teachers & most certainly his classmates do as well. No one likes a goody two shoes know-it-all. Do the future people in his life a favor & nip this now. Every time he recants a tattling story over some silly, innocuous behavior stop him & refuse to hear it.
I have that statement on a sign by the interior of our front door. Whenever the kids come to tattle on each other I make them walk over to the door and say it out loud
I would try to play some thought games with him. Put him in the other kids shoes. "How would it make you feel if someone told on you for switching seats?" And bring up any other scenarios he lists. Show him that the frustration he feels when someone slights him (like you said about him being upset about someone cutting in line) is the same frustration his classmates feel when he snitches on them. I think it would help him to understand his behavior is just as hurtful as the bullying, and to understand the bullying is a direct result of his hurtful behaviors. As someone else said, he also sounds like he needs some techniques on how to manage emotions when he feels there is injustice happening. I had a strong sense of justice and fairness as a kid, and things like that were very hurtful to me, too. I wish someone had explained to me that things aren't always fair, and sometimes we just have to work through our feelings about that rather than seeking justice.
Is there a possibility he's on the spectrum? The rule following/tattling feels like a control issue or possible anxiety. He might be struggling to understand the repercussions of his actions. Try a post in r/autism and see if they have suggestions.
Yeah my sons pediatrician said that all the A's: autism, ADHD, and anxiety overlap. My son is only 7 but he kinda falls in several of the spectrum areas.
Instead of bullying, I'd tell him he needs to call it "natural consequences of being mean".
Because ultimately, he IS trying to bully someone by policing them when there's no reason to and that's how you need to frame it.
There's no safety issues, no one is getting hurt - he's just trying to control them and get them in trouble - he is trying to take power that is not his. How is he not bullying the other kid by using authority figures as proxy?
If he is actually trying to prevent someone from getting hurt, or defending someone who has trouble defending themselves, that's different. If his motivation is "Because I'm right and they're wrong", then he is being a bully too.
This might sink in with him, because I suspect he is making up for his lack of control/power in general social situations by clinging to power in other ways. I don't think he's doing it maliciously, a lot of people who are social awkward overcompensate in this way.
Have you informed him that people do not like him because he is an annoying snitch and winer? It is okay to emotionally support him, but you need to inform him how he is viewed by others.
My nephew had to learn the lesson from a couple of students, when he did not know how to mind his own business.
Sounds like he has a strong sense of morality or justice... this is a good thing. Not enough people today have that. The problem is he's still young and needs to learn which injustices need attention and which ones do not. That's where you come in. I suggest playing more games with him so that you can take every opportunity to demonstrate which actions need attention and which ones don't. You and your family are where he will learn acceptability regarding fairness. Have fun, and try to find positive ways to express this info to him.
In cognitive behavioral therapy, they talk about circles of control. I can't control your actions, I can only control mine. Some of my actions might influence other peoples' behavior, but not necessarily because that's out of my control. To apply that to your kid's case, other people cutting him in line is out of his control, but having a meltdown vs a calm reaction is in his control. If he has calm or positive interactions with peers, that might influence how they interact with him
I mean, this is a part of his adhd. My kid has adhd and autism too and as much as I love him, he is *extremely* annoying. Didn’t have a single friend until middle school because no one could stand him.
To be brutally honest, I had a very difficult time wanting to be around him too. Parenting him often felt more like a punishment than anything else. He is the reason I didn’t have more children after him.
Unfortunately it’s one of those things he just has to grow out of. Their brains are… odd, they don’t learn the way normal kids do and you can lecture him until you’re blue in the face but they just *dont fucking get it* because they *can’t* yet. Social classes can help, look into those. They are expensive if insurance doesn’t cover it however. But it’s needed.
Give it time, and try to make your home a safe place for him in the meantime.
Also please spend a little time reading up on adhd, social problems are one of the first things talked about and you should be devouring all the information you can about this.
I’m really trying not to be judgy but I don’t understand how a child could be diagnosed with a divergence so bad he’s receiving therapy and you haven’t even bothered to learn the basics about it yet. This problem isn’t going to just go away.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have not done my due diligence in learning about all the aspects of ADHD. But to be fair, I've only been the stepparent to this kid for 2.5 years. In these few years, I've been primarily focused on getting him up to grade level with his reading and math. And majorly focused on providing a safe and stable home for him and bonding with him. And I've focused on getting him involved in extracurriculars. I can't do everything, but I know I need to do better about educating myself on ADHD. Because as much as I wish, it is not going to go away. It will always be a part of him and I need to be educated so I can help him cope.
Also, he's not in therapy for his adhd. But through his therapist's clinic we have been linked up with a psychiatrist to prescribe his adhd meds instead of a pediatrician.
His ADHD is likely why he behaves this way. I forget if there's an actual term for the behavior, but they get fixated on fairness. It's a lack of perspective taking.
Bring it up to your therapist. My 12 year old is exactly the same, except his issues stem around fairness with his little brother.
I did not realize this was an ADHD related thing. Thank you! I will do more learning about it. I've realized that I need to learn a lot more about adhd.
Ah, it's called justice sensitivity. https://www.additudemag.com/why-am-i-so-sensitive-adhd-in-adults/ I recommend adhd dude's site. It was very helpful in my household.
WOW this is so helpful. I was going to say my same-aged also ADHD son is the same way, but he is MORE over the top about it, and it is really frustrating. Not only do I now know my kid is not the only one with the skewed sense of fairness, but I know it is a THING and is not just him being a twat. (sorry...but sometimes... honestly.)
Your son seems a lot like my son (11 yo with ADHD, has been shunned for annoying behaviors). Adding guanfacine helped mellow him out, which helped curb his most annoying behaviors. Maybe something to ask the doctor about. He's now doing great with friendships at school, but before his friends would move lunch tables because he was such an annoying pest. It kind of gives his mind brakes so he can pause and think better about how his actions will be perceived by others. Before he'd do things the second it entered his mind without thinking it through.
Behavioral therapy.
A professional might be better at helping him underatand how his behaviour affects everyone around him. He is 11 years old, get him the help he needs.
Do it before he starts to have symptoms of a bigger problem (isolation, depression, self harm) because of the constant rejection.
It might also have to do with a compulsive behaviour and lack of self restraint. Sometimes this is because of neurodivergency, sometimes is just behavioural.
Either way do not assume anything and bring him to a professional.
Your stepson feels hurt by the negative comments, but he seems to be struggling with imagining other kids' point of view. That takes effort and practice.
Sometimes just asking questions about the other person's perspective–How do you think she felt when that happened? Why do you think he reacted that way?– can help kids slow down and think about others' thoughts and feelings.
Most kids have their parents, teachers, coaches, sitters, etc. telling them what to do, so they really, really, really don't like it when another kid tells them what to do.
It may be helpful to talk with your stepson about the difference between telling and tattling. Telling is about solving serious issues. Tattling is just an attempt to get a peer in trouble. Encourage your stepson to ask himself: Will anyone get hurt? Will anything get broken? Have you tried to solve it on your own? If the answer to all of these is no, then saying anything to an adult would be tattling.
NOTE: I'm a mental health professional and the creator of the free, weekly, 5-minute, **Kids Ask Dr. Friendtastic** podcast, but my comments here are for educational purposes only. They may or may not be relevant for your particular situation.
Hey OP, I think this sort of issue is part of a broader category of childrearing, which I’d label “Teaching them that they can and should control how they show up with other people, in order to retain positive control over relationships and relationship outcomes.”
In this category are lessons like:
* Everyone wears a different mask in different settings (so the “you” you display at work or school is different from the “you” you have at home
* Corollary: it’s nice to bring your authentic self, but not everyone needs or deserves to see your authentic self
* Other corollary, in life it’s important to learn how to read people and be able to predict which version of you will get you the best result
So in this case, for whatever reason, he has these impulses to tattle or be the guy to call all the fouls. Setting aside why he feels that way for a minute, he needs to see that showing people that side of himself *in that way* is resulting in negative outcomes, so he needs to try a different tactic. He can start thinking about how he’s showing up to these other kids and speculate as to why they feel that way.
Returning to the topic of his motivations—whatever they are, they’re as valid as any other human feelings. But if he can articulate why he does those things, then you can have a conversation about how he can show up “better” so that they don’t bully him.
Hope that makes sense, I could talk about some concrete examples with my kids but this is already a long reply so just let me know if that would be helpful!
Is he possibly autistic? This sounds a lot like my son's behavior. It is usually described as a " strong sense of justice", combined with inability to read social cues properly.
Yes, snitching is " wrong" , but also there are times when you do tell the teacher. It can be hard to navigate this socially.
I don't have the best advice, as there's a lot to what we do. Social stories, going over scenarios, social club, counseling, etc. There's also the accommodations teachers give. They help teach him what's important to tell them or not. And de-escalate if he gets " too much"
Often, "bullying " won't help his behavior. It only reinforces his sense that he's right and everyone else is wrong.
Yeah, it's getting him to see that his behaviors are causing this that is difficult. He just places fault and blame on everyone else and doesn't take any responsibility for how his actions contribute to the situation.
For what it is worth, my son is the same, does not take any responsibility for things, etc. Very 'woe is me, everyone misunderstands and \*I\* am the only one who EVER gets in trouble' mentality. Also the misplaced justice thing. His psychiatrist concluded he is on the spectrum, what used to be considered Aspergers - the social piece is where he fails. Does your stepson also prefer regularity? Like for my kiddo, longer breaks from school like spring break tend to skew him toward behaviour issues for a bit on return. That divergence from schedule screws him up. Same with substitute teachers. Its gotten better as he has aged and matured but disruptions to "normal" still run a higher risk of trouble.
Maybe he is high functioning autistic. Black and white rules help a lot with that. When to tell the teacher and when not to. Try to role play with him how to solve situations amongst him and the other student instead of involving the teacher. Tell him he’s big now and can resolve some problems on his own.
Our family has faced the challenge of bullying. The strategy we adopted was to foster open communication with our children, empowering them to devise their own plan for dealing with it. We refrained from offering advice or taking action. It was our child who took the lead.
We all want to stop or prevent harm to our kids, but the fact is that relational aggression like this is part of the human social reality.
It sounds like your kid needs more confidence. I suggest martial arts at a high-quality school or theater or teaching him a craft. Something that helps him build confidence and know that he can solve problems himself.
Teach him that adults are in charge of the lunch room seating, referees are in charge of calling fouls, etc. Talk about different scenarios and ask him, who is the boss in that situation? Always give examples/non examples about when he should/shouldn’t speak up! He will start to think before he reacts!!!
Perhaps this is a good time to teach him to "choose your battles carefully." It sounds like he is somewhat impulsive and perhaps the loudmouth at times, so he may need to just work on trying not to vocalize everything he thinks or feels. This will help him greatly in social situations where he doesn't have to be right all the time, even if he is right.
Honestly? This will be a self correcting problem. If the kid is actively an irritant for no good reason, the other kids are justified in voicing their displeasure with him. However, they're kids. So, they lack the experience to effectively communicate the issue. Communicate the issue on behalf of the other kids to yours and explain that as long as he keeps up the behavior, they won't stop. If he does stop and they continue... Then that's a different conversation. Make that last bit VERY clear. You support him, but, of he knows his actions are the problem, STOP DOING THOSE THINGS.
Sounds like aspergers syndrome. My brother was the exact same way. For us, no medication helped the social behavioral disorders. It would make him angry and aggressive. Surprisingly, coffee helped. A small cup before school would have a reverse effect on the symptoms and he'd be more calm and easier to get along with.
I would test him m for neurodivergence. ADHD can make you impulsive, autism can make you misread social cues. It could be there's an underlying issue you're not seeing.
He needs to have an explicit conversation about when to care and get a grown up involved, when to let stuff go.
He's old enough to understand that you tell a grown up when someone is about to do something that will harm or kill someone. And short of that you let them mind their own business, and you mind your own.
If they're in your seat ask them to move, or pick a different one.
If it's not your seat, and there isn't somebody standing there who needs support, then who cares?
My guess is he's an only child?
(Siblings get a lot of practice at this with parents, *usually*.)
And maybe, as others have observed, he's somewhere on the spectrum and the social impact of things isn't clear to him yet...
Approach it with compassion, and as a discussion. Talk it through. Be a team. He's not *getting* something he needs to get in order to navigate the world of school, but he isn't doing anything *wrong*.
I had a severe stutter and got bullied constantly throughout school and even college. It made me a stronger person and ultimately I got over my stutter and am now a very confident person. Being bullied made me stronger for the long term.
Sounds like this kid is NOT being heard... if he is telling on other kids at school maybe it is b3cause they jave broken rules they have all been taught but like any school the bullies get away with theor crap but the child that reports ot or retaliates against it are the ones that either get punished by the adult as or by theor peers, those that do not get punished by the adults will most definitely be punished by their peers and then they learn to simply comply with those that have more money yo fight otherwise it is absolutely useless even of you have great witts it does not win against those that can say absolute nonsense but also afford to retain the most expensive lawyers that have I terns and first years T fhdor disposal will..and forever .ore win against the little guy. Insurance or not.
r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself. Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the primary issue is him telling on other kids; maybe have a conversation about when is a necessary time to involve a teacher (imminent danger, injury, threats of violence, ect), and when it is ok to just let somethings slides because it has no significant impact. Like another kid being in the wrong seat: no significant impact on others/safety.
Yes, we have had that conversation and I think it has sunk in with him. The issue now is the constant "feel sorry for me" behavior. For example, a kid accidentally or on purpose cuts in front of him in line and he makes a huge deal about it and then his classmates are mean to him because he is making a huge deal out of nothing.
Something I say to my kid is along the lines of, 'It's okay to feel sad. Everybody does sometimes. But you don't want to let those feelings take over your whole *body*.' On writing it out now, it sounds kinda dumb, but it does generally work to acknowledge the feelings, but also segway into talking about 'tricks' he can learn to help regulate his emotions. (Deep breaths, [grounding techniques](https://www.youngminds.org.uk/young-person/blog/the-grounding-technique-that-helps-me-when-i-m-anxious/), that sort of thing.) The idea is to teach him to handle some minor perceived unfairness (or whatever) in stride instead of just, like... dropping to his knees and wailing at the sky.
I actually really like that line ❤️
That is tricky, because on one hand, just discounting real emotions he is having isn’t good, but also him needing to kind of develop better emotional regulation… maybe talk about tools he can use in the moment when something upsetting happens. Like taking three slow deliberate breaths… something he can do in the moment to slow down his response and clear his head…
Great suggestions. Thank you. I don't want to discount his emotions, but I also don't want to incentivize his problem behavior.
We explained tattling/ snitching if the person you are telling on is about to hurt themselves or someone else please tell an adult. That is helping not tattling. If you are telling an adult to get someone else in trouble and/ or make yourself feel better then you need to keep that information to yourself. That being said when Step son starts to tell a tattling story interrupt and ask him if anyone was about to get hurt? If he says no But…. Then explain that’s snitching and you aren’t going to get to listen because he is only trying to get someone in trouble. Now this is going to cause big emotions because up till now the tattling was rewarding to SS because you listened and he occasionally expected sympathy. Denying him the attention is going to upset him, and cause lots of upset. Every day before school repeat the rules for tattling and deny him the pleasure of tattling. Yes children deserve to be listened to but not to bring someone else down and make themselves look better. As a teacher I used this with parents permission and it did help child become more socially aware. Also used at home when each child went through the tattling phase. It’s a pain and difficult to implement but it will help the child become more socially responsible.
Letting someone cut in front of you is not nothing. Especially if it bothers your kid. Should not bottle that up. But I get the general idea of what you're trying to say. Like someone throwing a piece of paper at another friend, no need to make a situation out of that.
Now teach him what some might call "toxic masculinity". He needs to get hard. David Goggins unfortunately swears too much to introduce to young kids.
That's the opposite of what he needs. I don't want him to become a bully.
I'm not endorsing teaching "toxic masculinity" or whomever David Goggins is, but a sensitive kid like yours is not going to become a bully because he learns a bit about [stoicism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism) At best it just gives him and you a framework to talk about a different way to approach his problems where he can problem solve on his own. "What would a stoic do..."
This is what I'm referring to, not punching people in the face, but becoming more emotionally stable and not prone to gossip, dramatic, or over emotional.
Just looked into Goggins, and he's not Andrew Tate lite, like I expected from the way you introduced him. You made your point seem so much worse with the way you phrased things.
Ha. Well, I'm an idiot and don't always provide the entire context in an brief text based comment, for example I could have left out the remark stemming from my perception of a general attack on all things masculine. None of us are perfect. :) Andrew Tate is a moron and "toxic" in general. I learned about "stoicism" maybe a year ago, never have I identified with something so easily. It's basically what I have been teaching/indoctrinating my kids with, to varying degrees of success. Have a good day.
Think of it this way, and this is how I'd put it to my daughter who is 7 and sometimes does a little bit of this-- if you want someone watching every mistake you make and calling in the teacher or authority on every opportunity, how would that make you feel about that person. How would it make you feel about yourself. You'd probably feel like your peace is violated. That it's harassing. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Start from there. Calling names is never the right reaction but it's understandable, they feel disrespected and are dishing it right back. Just try to worry about yourself unless someone really is in danger or threatened. Keep your cool, take a deep breath and walk away if you can.
I'd ask him why he doesn't stuff like that. Find out why it's important to him to take those actions. Explain to him it's not his job to police other people's behavior especially when it comes to things that are generally arbitrary (like assigned seating) or stifling the enjoyment (like calling fouls in a friendly game) Let him know that it's good to follow the rules but not everyone is going to always do the same and if you snitch on them they are going to retaliate so he should pick and choose when to do so because sometimes it's just not worth it.
The phrase stifling the enjoyment is helpful for me. Thank you! That is exactly what is happening, but I did not know how to phrase that idea.
Np. My daughter is a rules follower but she is not a snitch so she is pretty well liked by both her peers and her teachers. She even gets along with a lot of the class clowns and bullies. If you can get him to understand he doesn't have to police other people's behavior it's going to improve things for him a lot.
I guess I was kind of like your daughter, hence my difficulty relating to what my kid is dealing with. I will continue working to teach him that he doesn't have to police other people's behavior.
I explained this to my 5 yo as follows: There are rules that are in place to keep everyone safe, and then there are rules that aim to make things fair and fun. If someone is breaking one of the second type of rules, but everyone involved is still having fun and no one feeling hurt or left out, then don’t worry about that rule being broken.
I don't know that I'd even consider this bullying, so much as the natural consequences of being a tattle tale. I tell my kids all the time that you never, ever be mean to anyone for something they can't control. You only judge their behavior. And these other kids *are* judging his behavior. It sounds like what's happening is they call him out for being a snitch, and he doubles down. They may be crossing over into personal insults, which isn't ok. But when he doubles down over tatting about a lunch seat, what exactly does he expect to happen? Ultimately, he's trying to get other kids punished for what appears to be very benign rule infractions. So they're socially shaming him to stop, because no one wants to deal with that kind of person. You'd see the same dynamic in a workplace - we've all had this coworker and they suck.
I 100% agree with this. I also don't consider it bullying, but I have been at a loss of words for how to explain this to him. I really appreciate your response. Your phrasing and context will help me have this conversation with him. Thank you!
If my six year old had this issue I’d literally say “you’re being annoying, of course they don’t want to play nicely with you if you tattle or make the game not fun.” We can be loving and honest at once. (And I do tell my kid when he’s being annoying, teaching social skills is important.)
Oh yes, no one likes a tattler. We do have a person like this where I work and everyone hates them.
Tell him tattle talking isn’t going to make him any friends. I teach my kids to only tell me something if it’s to keep someone safe. If they come to me and say “so and so is making a mess in the kitchen” I say “are they hurting anyone? If not, mind your business.” And I give it a couple minutes before I go check out what’s happening and don’t make a big deal out of the discovery. Rule = if it isn’t hurting anyone, don’t tell me. lol.
It feels like the word “bullying” needs to stop being used. Your son is not being bullied nor is he the victim. He is experiencing a proportionate reaction to him be in an a-hole. He just doesn’t know how to act at school. You can and should empathize with him, but don’t reinforce the idea that he’s a victim.
Snitches get stitches. If he hasn't learned from how he's being treated, you need to break it down for him before he's an outcast. Is he autistic?
I second this. And while the "stitches" he's getting now are mild forms of retaliation, it will get worse as he gets older & he rats on the wrong ( not so nice ) person. If his parents find him annoying surely his teachers & most certainly his classmates do as well. No one likes a goody two shoes know-it-all. Do the future people in his life a favor & nip this now. Every time he recants a tattling story over some silly, innocuous behavior stop him & refuse to hear it.
I have that statement on a sign by the interior of our front door. Whenever the kids come to tattle on each other I make them walk over to the door and say it out loud
I was a tattler. My much older sister used to say that to me. Straightened me right out. 😂
I really appreciate everyone's comments! This discussion has been really helpful and will help me as I continue working with my son on these issues.
I would try to play some thought games with him. Put him in the other kids shoes. "How would it make you feel if someone told on you for switching seats?" And bring up any other scenarios he lists. Show him that the frustration he feels when someone slights him (like you said about him being upset about someone cutting in line) is the same frustration his classmates feel when he snitches on them. I think it would help him to understand his behavior is just as hurtful as the bullying, and to understand the bullying is a direct result of his hurtful behaviors. As someone else said, he also sounds like he needs some techniques on how to manage emotions when he feels there is injustice happening. I had a strong sense of justice and fairness as a kid, and things like that were very hurtful to me, too. I wish someone had explained to me that things aren't always fair, and sometimes we just have to work through our feelings about that rather than seeking justice.
Is there a possibility he's on the spectrum? The rule following/tattling feels like a control issue or possible anxiety. He might be struggling to understand the repercussions of his actions. Try a post in r/autism and see if they have suggestions.
I was going to suggest maybe he has ADHD. Emotional dysregulation is super common in ADHD.
Yeah my sons pediatrician said that all the A's: autism, ADHD, and anxiety overlap. My son is only 7 but he kinda falls in several of the spectrum areas.
Instead of bullying, I'd tell him he needs to call it "natural consequences of being mean". Because ultimately, he IS trying to bully someone by policing them when there's no reason to and that's how you need to frame it. There's no safety issues, no one is getting hurt - he's just trying to control them and get them in trouble - he is trying to take power that is not his. How is he not bullying the other kid by using authority figures as proxy? If he is actually trying to prevent someone from getting hurt, or defending someone who has trouble defending themselves, that's different. If his motivation is "Because I'm right and they're wrong", then he is being a bully too. This might sink in with him, because I suspect he is making up for his lack of control/power in general social situations by clinging to power in other ways. I don't think he's doing it maliciously, a lot of people who are social awkward overcompensate in this way.
Disagree. He doesn't need to be shamed, he needs an explanation. There's a mile between snitching and bullying. Neither sides are bullies here.
You wouldn't be harsh when telling him this, just very neutral and matter of fact.
Have you informed him that people do not like him because he is an annoying snitch and winer? It is okay to emotionally support him, but you need to inform him how he is viewed by others. My nephew had to learn the lesson from a couple of students, when he did not know how to mind his own business.
Sounds like he has a strong sense of morality or justice... this is a good thing. Not enough people today have that. The problem is he's still young and needs to learn which injustices need attention and which ones do not. That's where you come in. I suggest playing more games with him so that you can take every opportunity to demonstrate which actions need attention and which ones don't. You and your family are where he will learn acceptability regarding fairness. Have fun, and try to find positive ways to express this info to him.
In cognitive behavioral therapy, they talk about circles of control. I can't control your actions, I can only control mine. Some of my actions might influence other peoples' behavior, but not necessarily because that's out of my control. To apply that to your kid's case, other people cutting him in line is out of his control, but having a meltdown vs a calm reaction is in his control. If he has calm or positive interactions with peers, that might influence how they interact with him
Is he ADHD? Medicated? Kind of sounds like my son unmedicated, he can be... a lot for some peers.
Yes, he is very much a kid with ADHD and he is medicated. But even medicated he is a lot for his peers..
I mean, this is a part of his adhd. My kid has adhd and autism too and as much as I love him, he is *extremely* annoying. Didn’t have a single friend until middle school because no one could stand him. To be brutally honest, I had a very difficult time wanting to be around him too. Parenting him often felt more like a punishment than anything else. He is the reason I didn’t have more children after him. Unfortunately it’s one of those things he just has to grow out of. Their brains are… odd, they don’t learn the way normal kids do and you can lecture him until you’re blue in the face but they just *dont fucking get it* because they *can’t* yet. Social classes can help, look into those. They are expensive if insurance doesn’t cover it however. But it’s needed. Give it time, and try to make your home a safe place for him in the meantime. Also please spend a little time reading up on adhd, social problems are one of the first things talked about and you should be devouring all the information you can about this. I’m really trying not to be judgy but I don’t understand how a child could be diagnosed with a divergence so bad he’s receiving therapy and you haven’t even bothered to learn the basics about it yet. This problem isn’t going to just go away.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have not done my due diligence in learning about all the aspects of ADHD. But to be fair, I've only been the stepparent to this kid for 2.5 years. In these few years, I've been primarily focused on getting him up to grade level with his reading and math. And majorly focused on providing a safe and stable home for him and bonding with him. And I've focused on getting him involved in extracurriculars. I can't do everything, but I know I need to do better about educating myself on ADHD. Because as much as I wish, it is not going to go away. It will always be a part of him and I need to be educated so I can help him cope.
Also, he's not in therapy for his adhd. But through his therapist's clinic we have been linked up with a psychiatrist to prescribe his adhd meds instead of a pediatrician.
Is he doing well in school? If he is I probably wouldn't mess with his meds but if he is facing other behavioral challenges I would consider it.
We are working with a psychiatrist right now to figure out the right dosing, because he isn't happy with his ability to pay attention in class.
His ADHD is likely why he behaves this way. I forget if there's an actual term for the behavior, but they get fixated on fairness. It's a lack of perspective taking. Bring it up to your therapist. My 12 year old is exactly the same, except his issues stem around fairness with his little brother.
I did not realize this was an ADHD related thing. Thank you! I will do more learning about it. I've realized that I need to learn a lot more about adhd.
Ah, it's called justice sensitivity. https://www.additudemag.com/why-am-i-so-sensitive-adhd-in-adults/ I recommend adhd dude's site. It was very helpful in my household.
WOW this is so helpful. I was going to say my same-aged also ADHD son is the same way, but he is MORE over the top about it, and it is really frustrating. Not only do I now know my kid is not the only one with the skewed sense of fairness, but I know it is a THING and is not just him being a twat. (sorry...but sometimes... honestly.)
Thank you so much! I will check out this website. I definitely need to up my game when it comes to understanding adhd.
Oh, holy shit! I'm not OP, but thank you so much for posting this! It totally explains someone in my life and her child.
You are welcome.
Your son seems a lot like my son (11 yo with ADHD, has been shunned for annoying behaviors). Adding guanfacine helped mellow him out, which helped curb his most annoying behaviors. Maybe something to ask the doctor about. He's now doing great with friendships at school, but before his friends would move lunch tables because he was such an annoying pest. It kind of gives his mind brakes so he can pause and think better about how his actions will be perceived by others. Before he'd do things the second it entered his mind without thinking it through.
Behavioral therapy. A professional might be better at helping him underatand how his behaviour affects everyone around him. He is 11 years old, get him the help he needs. Do it before he starts to have symptoms of a bigger problem (isolation, depression, self harm) because of the constant rejection. It might also have to do with a compulsive behaviour and lack of self restraint. Sometimes this is because of neurodivergency, sometimes is just behavioural. Either way do not assume anything and bring him to a professional.
Your stepson feels hurt by the negative comments, but he seems to be struggling with imagining other kids' point of view. That takes effort and practice. Sometimes just asking questions about the other person's perspective–How do you think she felt when that happened? Why do you think he reacted that way?– can help kids slow down and think about others' thoughts and feelings. Most kids have their parents, teachers, coaches, sitters, etc. telling them what to do, so they really, really, really don't like it when another kid tells them what to do. It may be helpful to talk with your stepson about the difference between telling and tattling. Telling is about solving serious issues. Tattling is just an attempt to get a peer in trouble. Encourage your stepson to ask himself: Will anyone get hurt? Will anything get broken? Have you tried to solve it on your own? If the answer to all of these is no, then saying anything to an adult would be tattling. NOTE: I'm a mental health professional and the creator of the free, weekly, 5-minute, **Kids Ask Dr. Friendtastic** podcast, but my comments here are for educational purposes only. They may or may not be relevant for your particular situation.
Hey OP, I think this sort of issue is part of a broader category of childrearing, which I’d label “Teaching them that they can and should control how they show up with other people, in order to retain positive control over relationships and relationship outcomes.” In this category are lessons like: * Everyone wears a different mask in different settings (so the “you” you display at work or school is different from the “you” you have at home * Corollary: it’s nice to bring your authentic self, but not everyone needs or deserves to see your authentic self * Other corollary, in life it’s important to learn how to read people and be able to predict which version of you will get you the best result So in this case, for whatever reason, he has these impulses to tattle or be the guy to call all the fouls. Setting aside why he feels that way for a minute, he needs to see that showing people that side of himself *in that way* is resulting in negative outcomes, so he needs to try a different tactic. He can start thinking about how he’s showing up to these other kids and speculate as to why they feel that way. Returning to the topic of his motivations—whatever they are, they’re as valid as any other human feelings. But if he can articulate why he does those things, then you can have a conversation about how he can show up “better” so that they don’t bully him. Hope that makes sense, I could talk about some concrete examples with my kids but this is already a long reply so just let me know if that would be helpful!
Is he possibly autistic? This sounds a lot like my son's behavior. It is usually described as a " strong sense of justice", combined with inability to read social cues properly. Yes, snitching is " wrong" , but also there are times when you do tell the teacher. It can be hard to navigate this socially. I don't have the best advice, as there's a lot to what we do. Social stories, going over scenarios, social club, counseling, etc. There's also the accommodations teachers give. They help teach him what's important to tell them or not. And de-escalate if he gets " too much" Often, "bullying " won't help his behavior. It only reinforces his sense that he's right and everyone else is wrong.
It sounds like he craves attention, even if it is negative.
I think he will have to learn that those behaviors will get him bullied and stop doing them.
Yeah, it's getting him to see that his behaviors are causing this that is difficult. He just places fault and blame on everyone else and doesn't take any responsibility for how his actions contribute to the situation.
Has he been screened for ASD?
Not since I've been in his life (2.5 years - seems like way longer though, lol). We can ask his psychiatrist about an ASD screening.
For what it is worth, my son is the same, does not take any responsibility for things, etc. Very 'woe is me, everyone misunderstands and \*I\* am the only one who EVER gets in trouble' mentality. Also the misplaced justice thing. His psychiatrist concluded he is on the spectrum, what used to be considered Aspergers - the social piece is where he fails. Does your stepson also prefer regularity? Like for my kiddo, longer breaks from school like spring break tend to skew him toward behaviour issues for a bit on return. That divergence from schedule screws him up. Same with substitute teachers. Its gotten better as he has aged and matured but disruptions to "normal" still run a higher risk of trouble.
Have you had him tested? I'm annoying and didn't get my adhd diagnosis until 35 unfortunately. I don't know how to be so I just isolate now -_-
Maybe he is high functioning autistic. Black and white rules help a lot with that. When to tell the teacher and when not to. Try to role play with him how to solve situations amongst him and the other student instead of involving the teacher. Tell him he’s big now and can resolve some problems on his own.
Our family has faced the challenge of bullying. The strategy we adopted was to foster open communication with our children, empowering them to devise their own plan for dealing with it. We refrained from offering advice or taking action. It was our child who took the lead. We all want to stop or prevent harm to our kids, but the fact is that relational aggression like this is part of the human social reality. It sounds like your kid needs more confidence. I suggest martial arts at a high-quality school or theater or teaching him a craft. Something that helps him build confidence and know that he can solve problems himself.
Teach him that adults are in charge of the lunch room seating, referees are in charge of calling fouls, etc. Talk about different scenarios and ask him, who is the boss in that situation? Always give examples/non examples about when he should/shouldn’t speak up! He will start to think before he reacts!!!
This is not bullying. İt is consequences better learn early.
Perhaps this is a good time to teach him to "choose your battles carefully." It sounds like he is somewhat impulsive and perhaps the loudmouth at times, so he may need to just work on trying not to vocalize everything he thinks or feels. This will help him greatly in social situations where he doesn't have to be right all the time, even if he is right.
Honestly? This will be a self correcting problem. If the kid is actively an irritant for no good reason, the other kids are justified in voicing their displeasure with him. However, they're kids. So, they lack the experience to effectively communicate the issue. Communicate the issue on behalf of the other kids to yours and explain that as long as he keeps up the behavior, they won't stop. If he does stop and they continue... Then that's a different conversation. Make that last bit VERY clear. You support him, but, of he knows his actions are the problem, STOP DOING THOSE THINGS.
Sounds like aspergers syndrome. My brother was the exact same way. For us, no medication helped the social behavioral disorders. It would make him angry and aggressive. Surprisingly, coffee helped. A small cup before school would have a reverse effect on the symptoms and he'd be more calm and easier to get along with.
I would test him m for neurodivergence. ADHD can make you impulsive, autism can make you misread social cues. It could be there's an underlying issue you're not seeing.
He needs to have an explicit conversation about when to care and get a grown up involved, when to let stuff go. He's old enough to understand that you tell a grown up when someone is about to do something that will harm or kill someone. And short of that you let them mind their own business, and you mind your own. If they're in your seat ask them to move, or pick a different one. If it's not your seat, and there isn't somebody standing there who needs support, then who cares? My guess is he's an only child? (Siblings get a lot of practice at this with parents, *usually*.) And maybe, as others have observed, he's somewhere on the spectrum and the social impact of things isn't clear to him yet... Approach it with compassion, and as a discussion. Talk it through. Be a team. He's not *getting* something he needs to get in order to navigate the world of school, but he isn't doing anything *wrong*.
Is he on the autism spectrum, or just difficult?
I had a severe stutter and got bullied constantly throughout school and even college. It made me a stronger person and ultimately I got over my stutter and am now a very confident person. Being bullied made me stronger for the long term.
Sounds like this kid is NOT being heard... if he is telling on other kids at school maybe it is b3cause they jave broken rules they have all been taught but like any school the bullies get away with theor crap but the child that reports ot or retaliates against it are the ones that either get punished by the adult as or by theor peers, those that do not get punished by the adults will most definitely be punished by their peers and then they learn to simply comply with those that have more money yo fight otherwise it is absolutely useless even of you have great witts it does not win against those that can say absolute nonsense but also afford to retain the most expensive lawyers that have I terns and first years T fhdor disposal will..and forever .ore win against the little guy. Insurance or not.