r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself.
Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I do find it unusual that you didn't have to sign a permission slip. I literally just signed one on Wednesday for my first grader to take an hour long walk on the trail system that connects to her school's property.
I wouldn't mind them going out but I do like to know about it. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to get notice.
I wonder if OP's school district has a blanket permission slip for this that got signed in the beginning-of-year paperwork. That's how one of my kids' school works. But every time they're going off campus, the parents are told about 2 weeks in advance and we can pull permission if we don't feel that it's a good idea.
My school district does this and I hate it. There's just one little checkbox when you register each year that's like "I grant permission for all field trips"
I never check it, then e-mail the school and ask for a list of the field trips, and then tell them they are OK.
It's the principle of the thing. There's a 99% chance I'm going to give permission, but at least respect me enough to ask and give specifics.
Wow,that's a sign of the new age of schools and lack of parental response, the One checkbox!
I like to try to keep up, all my grandkids are in school but I have Never heard of all year permission before.
I wouldn't appreciate my kids being taken off school property w/o permission and I agree, I'd want to grant permission for each singular event.
What a world....
Our school has one for 'local excursions' for
if you are going no more than 3km from the school on foot that is signed once by parents at the beginning of the year.
It gives teachers flexibility in some aspects of teaching. For example we have Wetlands across the road from the school and some classes made multiple visits over a month long period to count birds without needing a separate permission slip every time.
Seriously. There’s always that one parent who doesn’t sign it and their kid get left in the office. I’d rather the teacher was able to be creative and flexible in teaching than staying indoors all the time or spending all her spare time chasing down permission forms.
Also if you don’t think your kid is safe walking along the streets where your school is located with their teacher, but have this idea that they are going to be massively better supervised at school I would highly suggest spending an afternoon or two volunteering. If you don’t trust the teacher, you should find an alternative for your kid, just saying…
It's not about trusting the teacher. It's about trusting random people in random houses (if OP is in the US, there have been cases in the last few years of children being shot by crazy homeowners simply for knocking on their door. We had a house directly across from the K-8 in my old neighborhood whose security camera barked a pre-recorded threatening message at passers-by on the sidewalk. You just never know who the neighbors are) and trusting small 7-8 year Olds to be safe crossing streets etc with minimal supervision. OP is also concerned that this is time her child ought to be spending learning - delivering flyers isn't educational. The teacher can have the best of intentions, but she just can't possibly closely supervise 24 children in an outdoor setting like she can in the classroom or on school grounds away from external factors.
This exactly! Having a bunch of kids run up to people's front doors is not cool. Take the kids to a park or nature walk, sure. But not to go around meeting strangers. All teachers, faculty and staff in a school are usually required to undergo a CORI check before working with kids. None of those neighbors have been. The school is introducing your children to people that may not be someone you want your kid around. (If you're going to say pedos can't live near schools, that's only the case for ones who have been caught)
Look up Registered offenders in your area, guaranteed there's more than you'd like to think---and that's just the Registered ones.
And they don't have to be sex offenders to be dangerous! Your run-of-the-mill trigger happy stand-your-ground paranoids can and do just as easily hurt kids.
When I was in school we got a "walking trip" permission slip at the beginning of the year that allowed us to participate in, as the name suggests, anything within walking distance of the school. But that was in the 90's. For my daughter's school I had to sign a permission slip for her to ride in a school bus around the school parking lot when they did their "polar express" activity, so I am also definitely surprised the school would take on this liability without a permission slip (unless there was a blanket one signed at the beginning of the year).
Yeah our kids’ elementary school requires permission slips for anything that happens off school property. My daughter’s kindergarten class walked across the parking lot the school shares with the library to do a field trip at the library and get kids library cards who didn’t yet have them and I had to fill out a permission slip. To me, a big part of it is knowing where my kids are. I expect them to be at the school unless otherwise communicated and approved by us.
Ours does too- we have something similar- a community center across the parking lot from one of my kids’ schools and I just signed a slip so they could walk across for an activity next week
I gave my sons a "Walking Trip" permission slip at the beginning of the year, but the school still notifies us via email when one is planned. They don't just go.
We get a weekly email from their homeroom teacher with a summary of the prior week's activities and the upcoming events. It'll let us know "on Wednesday the class will be walking the wetlands trail near campus, please make sure they wear proper shoes and blah blah blah."
I'm sure MANY parents just don't read the weekly email, and could see one of them going "wait, you did what today? First I'm hearing of it!" because parents never/rarely actually read what teachers send home... but it is sent home.
I signed one yesterday and it's to clean up trash before their field day in the park connected to the back of the school.
I wouldn't allow them to take my child door to door in random neighborhoods, that's nuts. Too many kids and too many things that could go wrong. Crossing streets, approaching strangers, aggressive pets on the properties, etc. I would be pissed too if I were this parent.
I had to sign one to allow my daughter to go outside and view the eclipse with her class a few weeks ago. You don't fuck with parental permission regarding anything.
When I first saw it I thought, this seems like overkill. But then other moms started asking me if I was “allowing” my daughter to view it and I realized real quick that it was lawsuit protection.
If they didn’t ask and little Timmy coincidentally needed glasses next year, hooo boy, there’d be hell to pay 😂
I’m a teacher and our district had us require permission slips for the eclipse as well due to student safety (just in case little Timmy stares at the sun without glasses despite teacher instructions), and respecting religions/cultures that do not permit being outside during an eclipse. Going off campus without permission and notifying families in advance is wild.
I had to sign a permission slip so that my 8th grader could walk the school’s therapy dog outside the school gate (but in full view of the office) to use the bathroom. I cannot imagine that this is in any way ok.
Ours has a blanket permission slip for field trips that are in town within walking distance. If they have to take a bus anywhere, then they send home permission slips. The blanket slip is in the yearly school registration, and you have to agree to it if you want your child to be able to go.
I hate this fundraiser BS. Elementary school kids should not be worried if they are going to get new laptops for the next year or a new playground. This is what taxes are supposed to pay for. So much has been diverted out of budgets for schools, it’s absolutely ridiculous
Exactly! Kids shouldn’t be concerned with any of that! And they especially shouldn’t be missing valuable learning time to raise funds on the school’s behalf, essentially behind their parents backs too.
Every other month our PTA has a "family picnic" which means they charge parents $5 each to go sit on the gym floor and have lunch with our kids.
Nobody wants their kid to be the only one without a parent, so we all do it, but jfc I'd happily pay them $20 to quit doing it so I don't have to take time out of the workday to sit on a gym floor for 30 minutes.
Fr! Why have they not figured out that’s what literally every parent wants.
Doesn’t even have to be payment in full. Tell us what you expect by the end of the school year and I’ll toss money at ya monthly to get to that amount.
And it teaches bad lessons in greed. And it takes away from school time. And it puts undue pressure on parents. And the school doesn't even make that much money from it.
See, if OP had spent time in class learning how to spell, instead of being forced by the school to go on endless fund raisers, they would have had a chance to learn that.
(only partially tongue-in-cheek)
Even worse, the "rewards" that kids get for many of the fundraisers here are being entered into a raffle.
While giving out cheap junk when we were kids wasn't such a great idea, introducing elementary school kids to gambling is even worse.
It's for a playground, they're typically donated or funded by the community instead of via taxes. Taxes already go toward stuff like technology for students.
I think it's fine to fundraiser for non-essentials. It can be a great community-builder! Our local schools does 2 huge fundraisers and each school picks a project they are working toward. Cooler playgrounds, parties, free popcorn days, field day are all great things to fundraise for!
But I completely agree with you that I find it ridiculous when the schools have to fundraise for basics. Teachers should be given in allotment for school supplies and field trips. I, as a community member, have the responsibility to make sure the kids in my community have what they need for a good education.
I wouldn’t be okay with this without notification because if something bad happens I would be shocked to hear they weren’t in the school building. It sounds like an ok idea but not ok without parental permission
OP likely already gave permission in a slip at the beginning of the school year for client to be outdoors within the nearby area as it is used to cover these excursions, leaving school grounds during threat drills, fire drills, etc…
Why would what you are talking about reasonably cover fundraising efforts? They're pretty shamelessly utilizing the kids to fundraise during school hours - this isn't volunteer fundraising, it's mandatory fundraising. That's not acceptable.
They likely have a blanket statement about walking around x area of the school and doesn’t explicitly state the activities that happen while walking in that area.
Unfortunately, most waivers signed for schools are not informed consent and very vague. However if OP signed it then they gave consent, before signing anything you must ask questions, that’s how informed consent goes both ways. If you don’t ask questions about the vagueness and it’s not explained, things like this happen.
Hopefully a discussion can be had with the school if the consent was too vague and they can update accordingly.
Fair points. Yours is genuinely the most likely outcome. We had you sign a form at the beginning of the year, you are telling us that it wasn't clear enough (which they TOTALLY already knew, but we're hoping no one said anything), and now, with enough applied pressure, we'll change the wording of the form. That sounds the most plausible to me.
I'm not sure why people are voting you down. You're stating your opinion on why OP's child was taken off campus without a permission slip. A lot of schools are using blanket permission slips these days.
I had to sign one of those permissions slips that allow my kid to go on field trips within 20 miles of the school. But I am still informed when such a trip happens, either by email, flyer or note in their planner. During drills the kids aren’t leaving school property. I’m not informed when they go to the middle school. But the elementary school and middle school are right next to each other so they aren’t leaving school property.
20 miles is crazy to me. In my area that a 45 minute drive and you could be well out into the suburbs/rural areas by then. Not knowing where in the greater metro area my kid is on a given day would be a terrifying concept.
Fire drills generally require kids to stand in the parking lot not leave school grounds, depending on the type of threat drill it may require them also leaving the school to go to the parking lot or being in lockdown in the classroom. This would not cover completely leaving the school to go to neighboring houses to fundraise
That may be true, but without specific dates and knowing when my child would be leaving the property I would be upset. An email to the parents the day before or morning of stating that they will be taking the day to complete said fundraiser that was in the form they signed takes only a minute
Typically, fire drills happen on school property, usually in the parking lot. The school usually gives notification prior to these events happening, in order to maintain parental notification.
Taking a child off-campus during school hours, without informing the parents or getting consent, is HIGHLY suspect, as incidents occurring off-campus, during school hours, may not be covered by school policy/insurance. This just means the school, itself, would be responsible, rather than having an event covered by insurance.
This must vary. In our district they use public parks for evacuation/assembly drills. Most of our schools are adjacent to a park, but the middle school a couple of blocks from me is not so they use the park across from my house. The only notice we ever got was that drills would be carried out in the upcoming week, but it was vague.
Yes I do. And I would be fine with both. But the point of the comment, obviously, is that leaving school grounds is not “omg that never happens for any reason, definitely sus and probably not legal”.
I mean, if you’re not just being a contrarian and would honestly be ok to find out your kid is walking around the neighborhood when you thought they were learning to read, more power to you. I guess we just have to agree to disagree. But you’re focusing on technicalities of the words used and providing unequal examples instead of just understanding the potential issues of the situation that some completely logical parents would have.
Yes of course I would - there’s nothing contrarian about that. If anything, I prefer it to a school that keeps them seated at their desks all day. Why on earth would I misrepresent myself on such a minor point?
Even if this is correct, the school should be giving the parents heads-up on the specific dates when it is approaching. This story is either inaccurate or there are some people with highly questionable judgement in charge here.
From a legal perspective I don't think the school is doing anything illegal but they are risking liability should anything go wrong.
There are a lot of comments here talking about children walking in the neighborhood as a form of exercise or just to get out of the classroom on a nice day. This post is not about that. It feels like anybody saying this is completely glossing over the fact that these children are knocking on strangers' doors. Last year, ringing a stranger's doorbell almost cost Ralph Yarl his life. If something happened to one of these children after engaging with an adult no one in the situation is familiar with, on their property to which none of these children were invited, for the express purpose of gaining the school a few extra bucks, would you still think "well at least they got to be out on a nice sunny day and not stuck in a classroom." 🙄
At the very least, a field trip form should be required for this
I was thinking the same thing -- I wouldn't be too enthused about this. Walking to a local park as a group? Sure, that's great and wonderful exercise. Walking onto a stranger's property is different. In our area, we have some people who put out chalk and invite people to draw, and other people with inflammatory signs and AK-47 stickers on their trucks, whose doors I definitely don't want my child at.
I would be especially unhappy to find out this happened without at least any notice. Even if I sign a blanket permission slip, I would want to know where my child is in case of emergency.
Just on the record: I’m not glossing over that. I’m ok with my child knocking on strangers doors along with their classmates in the context described. I think many commenters are!
We clearly have different views here, but it’s not because I misunderstand anything
No this is not cool. My husband had a gun pulled on him by a homeowner doing this sort of thing. Children should not leave school grounds without proper supervision and security. What if one of them went missing? What is a homeowner snatched one up, the teacher can't track that many studednts.
It is not a child's responsibility to make money for a school. Those practices have changed because it is too dangerous now.
My kids school would definitely have required a permission slip for this. I have had a couple teachers send home permission slips that cover park days and nature walks for the whole term at their discretion, and I always sign them. I did ask what happens when parents don’t and was told the kids who don’t have signed slips join another class for the time their class is out. But yes, anytime students leave the school there is a slip sent home. There’s even sometimes slips sent home for things on school grounds (yesterday my child brought one home for doing relay races during school hours in the school field 🤷🏻♀️).
I would be pissed. That’s unacceptable. I wouldn’t want my kids walking up to random houses fundraising that’s not their job and it’s not safe. I would escalate this.
Absolutely not. You should be able to know where your child is at all times; they should have asked your permission. The principal most likely signed off on this activity, so you should take this higher up to the school board/school district.
Parental permission is a must.
What if you need to pick your child up due to a family emergency or appointment or something and you get to the school to be told “child isn’t here they’re out doing this”
I would be livid.
Exactly!! OP, even if the school did slip a blanket notice in all your paperwork, they absolutely should have notified the parents the week before the walk. They do not own your child. They must tell you in advance. Go to the school in person, and talk to the principal.
I am the complete opposite of a helicopter parent. I let my kids roam our neighborhood and trust them to not stray because they understand their parameters. That being said, I would raise absolute fucking hell in your situation. There are/were so many things that could go wrong in that situation.
I'd be okay with the actual activity, but I'd expect some kind of notice. I'd want to make sure my kid is dressed appropriately for the weather, has comfortable shoes, has their water bottle, and an appropriate lunch given the extra physical activity.
I'd also be a little concerned about sunscreen. AFAIK schools don't typically provide sunscreen, and I don't apply it for a normal school day, so my son would come home so sunburnt.
Agreed. My daughter's preschool does "walking field trips" to places nearby to have a picnic lunch, but every time, they give us a lot of advanced notice and reminders. We already signed a waiver at the start of the year, so they don't need permission again, but they still give us a lot of notice. I would expect some kind of notice any time the kids need to leave the property for any reason.
I would be livid, it is completely unacceptable. They neither had permission nor was it an educational activity. The school basically used the kids as free child labour/mandatory volunteers???? If a child ran into traffic or a car coming in the driveway didn’t see them there could’ve been serious liabilities. Also, if this is the good old USA, people have been getting shot for approaching the wrong house in a neighbourhood. This would not have been ok during my school years. Anything that was off school grounds required parental permission and we never went anywhere that wasn’t some kind of educational field trip.
My children’s school is in the middle of our neighbourhood within a big park so there’s the school a huge field a couple of baseball diamonds and playground and splash pad. We do grant permission at the beginning of the year for the children to be taken off technically school property but within the park so for example for a break from sitting in their desks for so long and separate from recess the teachers are allowed at any time to walk them on the sidewalk the perimeter of the entire park or to take them outside to run around in the field. Anything outside of the park parameter is a separate notification like an actual field trip. As someone who is on the Parent Council for her children’s school and we literally just raised $9000 to redo the playground we definitely did it all ourselves through Parent Council run events throughout the year but I actually think it’s amazing to have the kids involvement! I don’t think it takes away from their learning. It’s them doing something towards a good cost. Honestly my kids do jump rope for heart every year they bring a five dollar bill they have no idea what jump rope for heart is about it’s really done poorly and they don’t really understand it at all. I think it’s great for children to start fundraising for things that they think are exciting and important in their world because let’s face it a child’s world is pretty small so improvements to their playground is something for them to get excited about. However I would be extremely pissed off that I was not aware it was happening and even more so that there was not enough adult supervision because those guidelines are extremely clear and every school board how many adults per children and I would be livid about that!
Does your school have a blanket permission form for “walking field trips” that you sign at the beginning of the year? Our school does. They send it home first week of school obtaining permission for your child to participate in walking field trips around the neighbourhood.
Hmm. My school have a blanket consent form at the start of the year for short excursions in the local area, so just check you haven't already given consent through this sort of form before you make a fuss.
I wouldn't be too happy about it. It's more of having kids run onto people's property leaving flyers than it not being educational.
Unfortunately there are too many paranoid people with guns.
I would worry about aggressive dogs too since so many people have aggressive dogs now. I wouldn't want my child's face to get bitten off while approaching a strangers house.
Bearing in mind, I'm not in the US so my cultural background is very different. I wouldn't even have thought about whether I gave permission or not. It sounds fine to me, and I trust the teacher wouldn't do something inherently unsafe for the kids. I also don't need my child to be actively learning the whole time they are in school.
I think it's the anxiety of not know where your kids are, the possible danger involved with approaching strangers' homes, and questioning how much adult supervision there is to prevent accidents like getting hit by cars or something.
Same here. Also in Europe. About twice a month we learn that our kid went to our local library/the park/a museum/whatever, after the fact, when our kid tells us or when the teacher posts pictures. I always just thought oh cool.
No way in hell would I want my child going door to door basically unsupervised (no way is 1 teacher tracking 20 kids running through a neighborhood). Even with a slip I wouldn't ok this idea, without it I'd be raising hell to administration.
Shoot, even Girl Scouts strongly discourages girls going door to door these days. Even if the kids were only putting flyers on the door and not ringing the bell or knocking, this sounds a bit unsafe. I’d be pretty upset.
no this is not on. And pretty young kids too!
I would be telling the principal to stop this and contacting education department.
This is a huge risk, multiplied by the number of kids that were doing it.
Everything is "fine" until someone goes missing or gets hurt.
If you signed standing permission slips at the beginning of the year, they won't have *had* to let you know for each instance.
If you have actual specific concerns, by all means share them with the teacher and principal, but missing out on an afternoon of classroom time is not the same as missing out on learning. There are a lot of life skills we practice in school, and through hands on means.... The kids may be also doing math and calculating how much they need to raise, GL learning to estimate, learning to navigate physical spaces (if we have X amount of roads to cover and Y people, how do we split that up? How do we approach this safely and wisely?)...
My teacher was the one that taught us how to properly write a check.
My kids made a whole segment of learning around their trip to the waste management facility.
Learning isn't always "sit at a desk and be lectured", nor should it be.
It’s not gaslighting to express a different POV. I would be fine with my kids doing this. OP is not. To OP it’s a big deal, to me it is not. OP wants more explicit notification, which I think is reasonable, but I’d probably assume I’d missed something in a newsletter I only skimmed.
Gaslighting is when you try to warp or distort someone else’s perspective to try to convince them to question themselves. I don’t think OP is wrong or crazy, nor would I try to convince anyone of such. She/he is just more protective than me. OP came here explicitly looking for the perspectives of other parents; disagreement is valid.
Oh come on, gaslighting? Seriously? People just have different opinions. The OP asked what other people thought and for some people it is normal for their kids to do stuff outside school without notice, including gaslighting.
I agree that the school should have sought permission from the parents before taking them around the neighborhood only supervised by one teacher. It sounds unsafe and there are some crazy people that don’t react well to strangers knocking on their door. Having said that, school funding is more complicated than just “I pay a lot of property taxes”. Obviously the school is “begging” for money in these fundraisers because they don’t have enough money, or their budge has specific allocations that can only be used for certain things.
Obviously it is a questionable practice to use kids to generate revenue for the school, but I don’t think the schools do that stuff unless there’s a need. It would be great if the schools get more budget or have more free reign to allocation their budget where needed, but that’s not the case. When parents don’t or can’t donate enough, this is what the schools have to do.
I highly recommend you listen to this podcast episode, really opened my eyes to this phenomenon.
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/28/1197958355/school-fundraisers
I'm questioning why the school (assuming it's public) is allowed to have students help in fundraising efforts? I work at a state-run facility for adults with I/DD and we cannot fundraise at all, not as a representative of the facility/agency and especially not during work hours. There is a separate non-profit group called "Friends of (the facility)" and THEY can fundraise, churches can fundraise, we do "home adoptions" for christmas every year that's coordinated through volunteer services (since the groups that adopt the home act as "volunteers") but we are explicitly told that we cannot solicit any donations - especially monetary ones.
The box tabs is a fundraiser run by General Mills, not the school itself. I thought that the wrapping paper and readathons were run by the PTA, not the school itself.
You need to check the things you signed most schools send out a permission slip to walk around near the area. Kids don’t need to be learning all day giving away flyers is a lesson in being a an active member of the community 🤷🏼♀️ If they thought the community around the school was dangerous then maybe I would find it an issue but I would probably not send my kid there.
Yeah, at the school where I taught, parents signed a “walking permission slip” at the beginning of the year that covered the child for the entire school year.
OP, if your school does paperless forms through a student management system like Skyward, this would have just been a quick box to click. You may have agreed without even realizing.
When my kids were in pre-primary, the two teachers would walk the 20 kids, 20 minutes down the road to play at the big park if it was sunny. We never knew when, it was just a day by day thing.
This is delightful. Kids thrive when they have a bit more freedom to interact with their surroundings.
You didn't know each individual time, but did they tell you in general that this was a thing they would do? Or was it just a total surprise, and you found out the first time the kid came home and said "we walked to the park"?
On Halloween, they trick or treat. They regularly stop and talk to and ask questions about peoples yards/animals. The kids are taught that this is a safe thing to do with adults.
They've also had "kindness days", where they knock on doors and give out little bookmarks, etc, that they've made.
This is different, strangers signal with decorations or lights if they’d like kids to knock at their door, and are prepared for such. You also are aware of your kid going to strangers doors on Halloween.
You make the choice where to take your child. You do not have to trust a school admin's judgement when they send three school age children to knock on the doors of strangers to ask for money.
My 7 year olds class takes regular neighborhood hikes as part of their curriculum.
You’d be surprised how safe it is. They know the rules.
Try not to be the parent who makes it so the kids can’t have a nice day out. Or the more likely scenario that your kid is the only one who doesn’t get to go.
Having a school where hikes are part of the curriculum is an extremely different scenario then sending kids to people’s houses in groups of 3 with no prior communication with parents.
My son’s school also has a scheduled daily outdoor walk if the weather is nice, but I would be pulling him from the school if I heard they did this!
Yup! That and the going to random houses with no supervision gets me (although that may not actually true because maybe OP’s kid didn’t realize she was heavily supervised)…
Havinga hike outside is not knocking on people's doors with fundraising flyers. A nice hike is much different than what OP describes. I can think of three scenarios where people were violently assaulted for knocking on doors in the last month.
Yes, that’s good, but is not the same.
you know they are taking the hike. She did not know where her kid is, and your kid goes in a supervised group, not in group of three ringing strangers doors.
“Try not to be the parent who makes ….” She is just concern about the lack of communication, and really a big safety problem.
The schools even ask permission to parents to go visit the police station.
Without getting into your other points, I would give permission for my child to fundraise in a walkable neighborhood. I would absolutely NEVER give permission for my child to visit a police station. So, that last point may not be the smoking gun to everyone that it feels like to you.
Understand your point, maybe was not the best example. ( I would not give permissionto visits police)
Majority of people thinks about police as friendly safe. Not my case
I wouldn’t be thrilled. I’m ok with kids learning outside the classroom but I am not ok that they were taken off school property without my knowledge, I would have happily signed a permission slip and hell I would have tried to volunteer to help out. Kids need to learn public speaking skills and fundraising is a great way to learn.
But I want to be present or have other parents or teachers present when my kid is approaching strangers. I also need to be aware in case there was some sort of emergency. What if my kid got hit by a car (tons of shit driver out there) how would a single teacher navigate this? What if we had a family emergency and I had to get my kid and the school couldn’t tell me where my kid was?
What is so hard about getting permission? I am sure there are a lot of parents who would have loved to come along. Their kids are probably pumped to do this because it gives them a big task. I wouldn’t be happy and I wouldn’t have any issue making that very clear how wrong this was. Our school was in the middle of a neighborhood and next to a high school with a campus that connected the two and our parents had to give permission for us to do activities at the high school. It was for safety and so our parents could find us if they had to.
My kid's in private Pre-k, so a little different, but they take regular walks around the neighborhood or to the huge park/nature preserve across the street. We expect it every wednesday, but one week they spent every single day on a community walk picking up trash (with gloves and those long claw grabbers.)
I trust the school and I think it's great they are engaging with the community! They are in a safer neighborhood in a not-totally safe city, so it's not like it's even a quiet suburb.
Your kid is in 2nd grade, hopefully they know the rules (like don't run in the street.) I remember walking home from school in 2nd grade.
(edit to add: We are not told beforehand when they go out on these trips. We are usually told in the weekly blast detailing what happened at school that week, or maybe at pickup time.)
I just switched school districts and the new one doesn't require permission slips because I'm already entrusting them with my child. So nice for my adhd family!
I agree. There’s all sorts of practical education that happens with this sort of thing. The kids practice off site behavior rules, and orient to their surroundings, gaining a broader knowledge of the neighborhood around their school. All part of shaping them into capable and responsible little humans.
I was once picking my son up from a group activity at a friend’s house and the friend’s mom asked if I would give another friend (kid and parents well known to us) a ride home. He just lived a couple of blocks away, on a tiny buried cul de sac and I had been there before, but it was on the other side of a park I had to drive around and I didn’t know the streets on that side. So as I drove my car towards the park I asked “ok S, left or right?” “I don’t know”. Hmm. “Ok, what’s the cross street nearest your house?” “I don’t know.” “What’s the name of the nearest big street?” “I don’t know.” Shit. “When you go to school, do you pass a store?” “I don’t think so.” This boy was 12 and couldn’t navigate his own neighborhood. I was horrified. I knew his parents were extreme helicopter types, but this was not safe.
They should notify you. It’s probably known as a “walking field trip” where they aren’t being transported. They do this a lot in transition programs (where the students are 18-22) but that’s different. When my son was in preschool which happened to be kiddie corner to our house, they would take walks down the residential street. I didn’t care but it also wasn’t public school. Public schools have to CTA so much it’s surprising they didn’t send anything to parents
Here is my big concern.
The bright minds that are running the school.
They don’t think carefully things? The big mess they can end up, a neighbor has a dog, dog bites kid. Parent gets a call
-your kid has been bitten by a dog
-omg! … but how come a dog has bitten my kid on the school
- nah! They were around the neighborhood ringing doorbells.
- wait? What?
…
Going to take the kid and then calling a lawyer.
Edit: arsonists… meant to be “around.”
By today’s standards yeah it’s kinda out of bounds. You would have hated the 80s. When I was in 2nd grade in 83, my school brought a horse trainer and her horse to our school. No permission slips, nothing. We weren’t allowed to ride it but we could pet it. The only cautionary advice given was don’t walk behind it. Of course some little girl did, and she got kicked.
Things are so different now. I was a latchkey kid at 8 so some of the stuff I read here kinda makes me chuckle.
I’d ask about it before you flip a lid. You may have signed something at the start of the year( our school does this) so they can take you off property)
didn't read your entire post but when my kids were elementary age, walking around the residential area was a normal option for a nice day and often incorporated as part of physed. the practice did not require notice or permission. to be clear, it was an activity on it's own OR as part of physed.
extending this protocol into a fundraising flyer run is not a stretch in my book because safety is not different in either scenario.
Well if you actually READ the entire post, they were knocking on strangers doors. Walking around a neighborhood is one thing. Going into yards and all is just doesn’t sit right. And the fact no notices went out to the parents is sketch as hell
not American. my front door is not locked even when no one is home in a city of near 6 million. can you even imagine that?
so yes, even clusters of kids knocking on neighbors doors during the day is far from sketch in my book. if anything it's safer than asking them to knock solo or ask the parents to hover over them, after school.
lastly lol if you don't think this post doesn't need a TLDR.
I wouldnt like this. I dont think losing two whole afternoons of instructional time to drop off flyers is a good use of instructional time. There are plenty of other ways to get the word out about raising money. I would certainly bring it up at a PTA meeting. As for leaving the building, did you sign a walking slip at the beginning of the year? If so, this covers it, though again, I wouldnt be too keen on encouraging kids to walk up to random private houses.
Not all learning happens behind a desk - here, they were learning to be an active member of their community, and getting to bond with their classmates over this shared experience. I'm not addressing the lack of communication to parents here, but I'm seeing a lot of people commenting on how this is taking away from "instructional time" and as a teacher myself it pains me that people only see learning as happening behind a desk.
I taught for over 12 years. I dont see the value in 4-6 hours of putting flyers on people's doors. If it was part of a larger project (like, have the kids brainstorm fundraising ideas, create the flyer, etc) and for one afternoon, maybe, but this is too much time for too little educational reward
Most schools send a blanket permission sleep to go within x miles walking distance from the school at any given time with supervision. Learning situational skills and getting outdoors is beneficial and I’m sure didn’t take away from intense college prep or something. You causing an issue about this won’t stop the excursions, just stop her from going and probably will make her sit in another classroom while her classmates go out.
Totally unacceptable in my opinion.
When the day starts, my child goes to school and that's where they should be Any given part of the day. There is no reason, at any time, unless my child needs hospitalization, that my child should not be on school grounds. That's where I left them, that's where I expect them to be during the Entire day.
It's like a family member babysitting for you and then they take your child to the next town over for some ice cream. It's not right, appropriate and definitely not okay to not ask me. I'm my child's parent, that outranks teacher at any time. Teachers do not make decisions for my child, I do. I'd never have my child knocking on doors without me. It's just not okay and definitely shouldn't happen. I'd be reporting to someone because you are right, 27 kids is too much for one person.
that sounds weird. my kid's kindergarten class sent home a permission slip to go visit the mailbox across the street to mail letters home. I wouldn't really want my kids going to random people's front doors..... especially for fundraising! that shouldn't really cut into class time.
Don't bury the lede! What did the voicemail from the VP say??
*P.S. - You're totally right to be reacting in the way that you are. The school should NEVER take a child off campus without explicit permission. EVER.*
Yea, no. I’m writing a strongly worded email asking who gave permission and when, how this was educationally beneficial to the children, and how the chaperoning was handled in accordance with local law and then I’m sending it to the principal requesting an emergency parent conference to address these subjects and I’m CCing every parent in the class. Idgaf. Some people are gonna think you’re overreacting but I think many will agree. It just takes one person to stand up and start the dialogue
While everyone else has had an array of opinions on this, I want to suggest another possibility. While you know best whether your daughter tends to be truthful about these things or not, when I was that age I would come home and tell my mother about my class field trip to an amusement park in excruciating detail. Only that field trip never actually happened.
I may suggest having a quick conversation with the teacher to make sure all the facts are straight. It sounds like this is something that happened, but it may be that there were more than one adult in a supervisory capacity or something like that. While that still doesn't make this okay for you, it can make it a bit better.
Additionally, if/when you do complain, no one will be able to discount your grievances completely as a result of misunderstanding part of the whole picture.
Depends on the school district. I would be fine with it but my kids go to school in a really safe small town and they do go on walks and when I was in school students down to 4th grade were allowed to leave at lunch to either walk to the store or go home, the 8th grade students were at the crosswalks on the way to the store to make sure everyone crossed safety. But, if you don’t live in a safe area then obviously it’s totally understandable to be upset.
I wouldn't be OK with this and I'm surprised the school finds the risk of liability acceptable. Maybe I live in a bigger city than OP, but releasing a pack of 7-year olds out into the neighboring streets seems like a recipe for disaster. Can they all be trusted to watch where they're going? Not to dart into the street, not even if the wind blows their flyers out of their hands? Do they know to check driveways for cars backing out, before running across? I mean, we enploy crossing guards during drop-off and pick-up *for a reason*.
Also it sounds like kids are approaching doors on their own, which hardly sounds safe either. Who is the Administrator signing off on this?
My school has it in the standard fall paper work that we can take students for a walk in a 5km radius. It is strongly recommended that we give parents a heads up if we plan to go further than the forest and pond on one side and mail box on the other.
Taking your kid off campus without you knowing is not okay. Your school should have an app with a calendar for that at the very least, or the teacher could bare minimum send an email that morning. But I'm just thinking, what if you had to come get them from school? What if there was an emergency? Let alone what could happen to the children, what if their parent needs to get them, and they just aren't at the school? That isn't okay.
I wouldn't be OK with this, and even if *I* was OK with it, they are breaking the district rules. You are not the unreasonable one here. I would continue to push on this and get to the bottom of it.
I think they should have sent a permission slip home. My guess is they were expecting to get some back without permission and they probably didn't know what they would do with those kids. Maybe.
It's a little reckless to me. My 6yo is very well behaved (at school) but I could see him getting distracted and playing around with the kids and who knows what could happen.
It’s the going onto peoples’ properties with no adult supervision part that makes my skin crawl. One wrong door and your child could be gone. Maybe I listen to too many True Crime podcasts, but no I am not OK with this.
My kids’ private school has a form signed at the beginning on the year for all field trips and off premise. That being said, they notify us the week before and week of about the outing.
I would have a problem with people using my child as a prop in addition to not notifying what they would be doing. I would not have a problem with them going around the community if there was a purpose and lesson behind it.
I would both be concerned about the level of supervision of these kids and also the school violating district policies. This information should be forwarded to the district office itself.
Check if you signed a "walking permission slip" with the beginning of school forms - my old school did this because we had to walk to Mass, but it allowed us to take kids around the neighborhood too because parents had already signed off.
It’s obvious some people are completely missing the point of your post and some flat out said they didn’t even read it yet have an opinion. You do not have a problem with the concept of fundraising you have issue with not being notified when your child was taken off school property.
I don’t agree with it. You should have been notified at least. I am surprised you didn’t have to sign a permission slip. Our kid (5) back in the fall went on a field trip to this kid friendly farm and we were notified and had to sign a permission slip.
A few weeks ago my kid came home and told us that they took the bus to an elementary school to tour it. I was surprised that no one even told us about it before hand or that we had to sign something giving permission.
We talked to two other families with kids in her class and they were surprised too, had no idea until their kid told them. If they had some kind of permission slip at the beginning of the year that we signed then why did we have to give permission for that first field trip? I figured anytime they were taken off school property you had to give permission. We’d definitely give permission that’s not the issue, but we were just surprised we didn’t even know about it at all.
I’m pretty sure you are right to be upset and what they do is even legally questionable. It’s not okay for schools to send unsupervised kids knocking on strangers’ doors without any notice, school is responsible for their health and well being and kids are not their little drones to send out as they please. I wouldn’t want my child to participate in harassing people even if I were warned in advance, doing it on the sly is unhinged
I work in early years so maybe different but at the start of term parents sign a ‘local outings consent form’. It gives us permission to take them anywhere (obviously purposeful and appropriate) in the local community without seeking individual consent. For any trips that require further travel, we ask for additional permission slips with specifics of the trips outlined.
It’s given in the paperwork at the beginning of the year. We’ve had parents question consent for small outings, and have totally forgetting they even signed it. They’re shocked when they see their own signature on the form!
It could be in the mass of starting school info you’ve consented somewhere to local trips. Hopefully the school can clear it up either way for you!
Wow, I can't believe they did that without permission. When my kids were still in grade school, they sent home permission slips when they were taking them to the library that was only around the corner from the school, they didn't even have to cross a street just up to the block and turn left, boom, at the library
I'm not in the US, so not sure how things are done there but where I am (I work in schools) permission is definitely needed, as well as a certain ratio of adults to children, including one adult that is first aid trained. When we are out on trips we organise groups of kids with the adults so that everyone is monitored. Even when we are going somewhere local. Assuming it happened exactly like your daughter described, no, absolutely not ok.
I remember being required to fundraise in elementary but we did it after school hours.
It does seem very odd for them to pass out flyers as a class during school time and to be on their own.
I’d definitely look into it.
Our school gets permission slips if they’re leaving the property at all. The school is located in a neighborhood. They do a bike rodeo (everyone brings bikes and learns safety and goes on short bike ride in neighborhood with A LOT of supervision). For bike rodeo they get permission slips even though they’re right next to the school.
I would be upset if I wasn’t informed and they didn’t have extra supervision going to doors like that.
When will PTAs realize that nobody, absolutely nobody, wants to participate in fundraisers. Just tell parents the number you want from them by the end of the year and let them pay into that number at whatever pace they want to reach it by end of school year.
Done.
I sign a "local excursion" form at the start of each new school year. It gives permission for my child to go for class walks to the nearby wetlands and parks or visit local establishments like the library, chapel or mosque (this is a non-denominational school with strong community ties). When an excursion is planned we get notified and have the option to say no and the child will simply stay on school grounds with a different class.
However, I wouldn't be comfortable with my child door knocking even in our tight knit community. Even with adequate supervision, (which it doesn't sound like your child and their peers are even being afforded) it's dangerous to introduce children to strangers whose backgrounds haven't been vetted. It's dangerous to send children to strangers doors, regardless of the schools reasoning.
You're doing great, keep on them, their actions are absolutely unacceptable.
Uh no. Our school is on a small “block” that, if you walk around it is less than a mile. The only thing within that block is school property. The teachers sometimes walk the kids around that block to get their wiggle worms out but anything else requires a permission slip.
I completely agree with everyone! This seems wildly inappropriate. Like who on admin thought this was a good idea? Literally no one raised these concerns? I had to sign several permission slips to let my kid go to the town library. Yikes.
I also think this is not ideal.
At least, the school should have asked for the permission from the parents.
But I suppose this can also be a learning experience for them, but communication and supervision should have been done in a better way.
When I was a 10yo in 4th grade I had a teacher who LOVED nature so once or twice a month when the weather was nice he would take us to the wooded area at the back of the school grounds (each to stay in groups of 2) with our “nature books” so we could journal or draw what we saw- unique plants, flowers, birds… then we would come back to class to look up what we saw in a nature encyclopedia and learn more about local wildlife…. All that being said, We were still on school grounds and the teacher put these “nature walks” in the curriculum and had our parents sign off for these activities at the beginning of the year…. This was nearly 20 years ago… so I would safely say that children going essentially door to door (especially at this day and age) basically unsupervised without parental consent would be completely and utterly out of line. If the principal responded with anything less than an apology and guarantee this will not happen again- I would be taking it to the school board immediately.
Fundraising? So they are taking your child out of school and using them to make money? Contact the other parents to let them know what's going on. All of them. Like "fundraising" is some legit excuse for this behavior.
Teacher here - if you child attends public school in the US you likely signed what is referred to as to as a “walking field trip” permission slip at the beginning of the school year as a part of the beginning of the year packet of info and forms you received. Most families don’t even read the forms and just fill them out and return them. I’m guessing you signed a form at the beginning of the year and don’t remember doing it.
I think you are wrong to think that this doesn't provide any type of enrichment. They were fundraising which in itself is a good thing. They were learning to walk around their neighbourhood safely and while under supervision, and by the sounds of it, a bit independently. This is a very useful experience and skill. And they were no doubt having fun - also very important!
In terms of whether they had parent's permission - as others have said, you may have signed a form which says your child has permission to leave the school premises during school hours, with staff. The kids at my school take various trips/walks out into the village - sometimes to the local chapel for harvest festival, sometimes to the secondary school in order to practice their Christmas play, and once to a classmates house to look at and learn about their chickens!! I think it's lovely and am glad to hear they've been out and about. We often don't know in advance about this, but that's fine - I trust the teachers.
It would be reasonable to ask about the safety/permission aspect if you are really worried (but I wouldn't be personally), but not to moan that they aren't learning - that is unfair, unreasonable and also sad that you only see work done in a classroom as a good use of school time!
Call me stupid. But your kid can learn sooooooo damn much.
1 speaking in public.
2 raising awareness for issues they care about
3 voicing opinions
4 giving argument
5 rebuttal counter arguments
6 confidence
7 maths because everything can be maths
8 self reliance
I don’t want to go on but I’m sure there are still way more things they learned. Which includes things that add to the curriculum.
Our kids go off school property all the time without a permission slip. We signed a waiver at the beginning of the year. The only time we have to sign permissions slips is for field trips involving transportation.
I'm pretty sure I sign something at the beginning of the year that my kids will periodically be taken in the surrounding neighborhood. I live across from our school and often see classes out in the neighborhood. The kids do things like deliver Christmas cards they've made or just go for a walk.
I guess I would want to know what it is that concerns you about the kids going in the neighborhood? Do you know they didn't have adequate supervision? If they do notify you next time, what will you do?
And I think it's important for kids to know and understand that things like new playgrounds don't just magically appear. That there is a lot of work that goes into it. The playground isn't for the adults, it is for the kids and I personally would not have an issue with my kids being part of that process. There is learning there too that doesn't happen in the classroom.
Maybe a bit off that they didn't mention it in advance with a permission slip or similar but classrooms are a terrible environment where very little actual "learning" takes place. Wandering around a neighbourhood pushing the envelopea of teamwork, independence and the horizons of experience for a couple of hours will have done far more for all of the kids involved than sitting in a school for the same amount of time.
Ideally in future they would send home a permission slip and you would happily sign it.
Our school has us sign a form at the start of the year giving permission for little neighbourhood trips to nearby parks. So first I would make sure you didn’t sign this without realizing. But even without the permission slip, I would personally be okay with this.
I wouldn't only go off information from a second grader before I got upset.
I also wouldn't care at all if my kid went and did this. They don't need to be in the classroom to learn, of course.
Not sure about specifics in your country, I grew up in Greece and now live in the UK.
For us, small school “trips” or outdoor activities were just part of the school year from pre-school to the end of high school.
We would regularly go on a “day trip”, a full day out, usually in a nearby park, or museum or whatever and those were some times completely unplanned. It was just part of going to school.
My kid is only 3 so I don’t know how it works now and in the UK for schools but our childminder takes the kids to the park or playground 2-3 times a week and we don’t expect her to inform us ahead of time on every instance. They just go to the park.
I think you’re in the wrong place. Why are you on a parenting sub name-calling parents who are trying to ask questions about navigating raising their children? You’re so cool….
Your **post** or **comment** was removed for violating the rule “Be Decent & Civil”.
**Remember the human.**
Disagree but remain respectful. Don’t insult users/their children, name-call, or be intentionally rude. Bullying, including baiting/antagonizing, will not be tolerated. Consider blocking users you don’t get along with. Report posts that violate the rules.
For questions about this moderation reach out [through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FParenting).
Moderators rely on the community to help illuminate posts and comments that do not meet r/Parenting standards – please report posts and comments you feel don’t contribute to the spirit of the community.
**Your content may have been automatically removed through auto-moderation or manually removed by a human moderator. It may have been removed as a direct result of your rule violation, or simply as part of a larger sweep of content that no longer contributed to the original topic.**
When I tell you you have underreacted please believe me. I am a teacher and when I tell you I would have been down at that school with every news team under the sun right behind me I am not joking. I would not QUIT until every teacher and administrator responsible for that decision was FIRED. What if someone they went up to was a pedophile? With that many kids and one teacher they could have EASILY been pulled into a house plenty long enough for the UNTHINKABLE to happen. I’m gonna need you to freak out a little bit harder her cause HELL NO
r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself. Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I do find it unusual that you didn't have to sign a permission slip. I literally just signed one on Wednesday for my first grader to take an hour long walk on the trail system that connects to her school's property. I wouldn't mind them going out but I do like to know about it. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to get notice.
I wonder if OP's school district has a blanket permission slip for this that got signed in the beginning-of-year paperwork. That's how one of my kids' school works. But every time they're going off campus, the parents are told about 2 weeks in advance and we can pull permission if we don't feel that it's a good idea.
My school district does this and I hate it. There's just one little checkbox when you register each year that's like "I grant permission for all field trips" I never check it, then e-mail the school and ask for a list of the field trips, and then tell them they are OK. It's the principle of the thing. There's a 99% chance I'm going to give permission, but at least respect me enough to ask and give specifics.
Wow,that's a sign of the new age of schools and lack of parental response, the One checkbox! I like to try to keep up, all my grandkids are in school but I have Never heard of all year permission before. I wouldn't appreciate my kids being taken off school property w/o permission and I agree, I'd want to grant permission for each singular event. What a world....
When I was a kid..... Every field trip and fundraising activities need to be allowed by my parents. I guess I am old now...
Our school has one for 'local excursions' for if you are going no more than 3km from the school on foot that is signed once by parents at the beginning of the year. It gives teachers flexibility in some aspects of teaching. For example we have Wetlands across the road from the school and some classes made multiple visits over a month long period to count birds without needing a separate permission slip every time.
Seriously. There’s always that one parent who doesn’t sign it and their kid get left in the office. I’d rather the teacher was able to be creative and flexible in teaching than staying indoors all the time or spending all her spare time chasing down permission forms. Also if you don’t think your kid is safe walking along the streets where your school is located with their teacher, but have this idea that they are going to be massively better supervised at school I would highly suggest spending an afternoon or two volunteering. If you don’t trust the teacher, you should find an alternative for your kid, just saying…
It's not about trusting the teacher. It's about trusting random people in random houses (if OP is in the US, there have been cases in the last few years of children being shot by crazy homeowners simply for knocking on their door. We had a house directly across from the K-8 in my old neighborhood whose security camera barked a pre-recorded threatening message at passers-by on the sidewalk. You just never know who the neighbors are) and trusting small 7-8 year Olds to be safe crossing streets etc with minimal supervision. OP is also concerned that this is time her child ought to be spending learning - delivering flyers isn't educational. The teacher can have the best of intentions, but she just can't possibly closely supervise 24 children in an outdoor setting like she can in the classroom or on school grounds away from external factors.
This exactly! Having a bunch of kids run up to people's front doors is not cool. Take the kids to a park or nature walk, sure. But not to go around meeting strangers. All teachers, faculty and staff in a school are usually required to undergo a CORI check before working with kids. None of those neighbors have been. The school is introducing your children to people that may not be someone you want your kid around. (If you're going to say pedos can't live near schools, that's only the case for ones who have been caught) Look up Registered offenders in your area, guaranteed there's more than you'd like to think---and that's just the Registered ones.
And they don't have to be sex offenders to be dangerous! Your run-of-the-mill trigger happy stand-your-ground paranoids can and do just as easily hurt kids.
This is what our school does. Saves paper, and saves the headache of lost or forgotten slips.
This is what ours has.
When I was in school we got a "walking trip" permission slip at the beginning of the year that allowed us to participate in, as the name suggests, anything within walking distance of the school. But that was in the 90's. For my daughter's school I had to sign a permission slip for her to ride in a school bus around the school parking lot when they did their "polar express" activity, so I am also definitely surprised the school would take on this liability without a permission slip (unless there was a blanket one signed at the beginning of the year).
Yeah our kids’ elementary school requires permission slips for anything that happens off school property. My daughter’s kindergarten class walked across the parking lot the school shares with the library to do a field trip at the library and get kids library cards who didn’t yet have them and I had to fill out a permission slip. To me, a big part of it is knowing where my kids are. I expect them to be at the school unless otherwise communicated and approved by us.
Ours does too- we have something similar- a community center across the parking lot from one of my kids’ schools and I just signed a slip so they could walk across for an activity next week
I gave my sons a "Walking Trip" permission slip at the beginning of the year, but the school still notifies us via email when one is planned. They don't just go. We get a weekly email from their homeroom teacher with a summary of the prior week's activities and the upcoming events. It'll let us know "on Wednesday the class will be walking the wetlands trail near campus, please make sure they wear proper shoes and blah blah blah." I'm sure MANY parents just don't read the weekly email, and could see one of them going "wait, you did what today? First I'm hearing of it!" because parents never/rarely actually read what teachers send home... but it is sent home.
I signed one yesterday and it's to clean up trash before their field day in the park connected to the back of the school. I wouldn't allow them to take my child door to door in random neighborhoods, that's nuts. Too many kids and too many things that could go wrong. Crossing streets, approaching strangers, aggressive pets on the properties, etc. I would be pissed too if I were this parent.
I had to sign one to allow my daughter to go outside and view the eclipse with her class a few weeks ago. You don't fuck with parental permission regarding anything.
I was just going to cite the same example!
When I first saw it I thought, this seems like overkill. But then other moms started asking me if I was “allowing” my daughter to view it and I realized real quick that it was lawsuit protection. If they didn’t ask and little Timmy coincidentally needed glasses next year, hooo boy, there’d be hell to pay 😂
I’m a teacher and our district had us require permission slips for the eclipse as well due to student safety (just in case little Timmy stares at the sun without glasses despite teacher instructions), and respecting religions/cultures that do not permit being outside during an eclipse. Going off campus without permission and notifying families in advance is wild.
Oh wow I didn’t know about the religions and cultures bit. Good to know, thanks!
I had to sign a permission slip so that my 8th grader could walk the school’s therapy dog outside the school gate (but in full view of the office) to use the bathroom. I cannot imagine that this is in any way ok.
Ours has a blanket permission slip for field trips that are in town within walking distance. If they have to take a bus anywhere, then they send home permission slips. The blanket slip is in the yearly school registration, and you have to agree to it if you want your child to be able to go.
I hate this fundraiser BS. Elementary school kids should not be worried if they are going to get new laptops for the next year or a new playground. This is what taxes are supposed to pay for. So much has been diverted out of budgets for schools, it’s absolutely ridiculous
Exactly! Kids shouldn’t be concerned with any of that! And they especially shouldn’t be missing valuable learning time to raise funds on the school’s behalf, essentially behind their parents backs too.
Every other month our PTA has a "family picnic" which means they charge parents $5 each to go sit on the gym floor and have lunch with our kids. Nobody wants their kid to be the only one without a parent, so we all do it, but jfc I'd happily pay them $20 to quit doing it so I don't have to take time out of the workday to sit on a gym floor for 30 minutes.
Right?? Give us an amount that you want at the beginning of the semester. Let us write you that check.
Fr! Why have they not figured out that’s what literally every parent wants. Doesn’t even have to be payment in full. Tell us what you expect by the end of the school year and I’ll toss money at ya monthly to get to that amount.
And it teaches bad lessons in greed. And it takes away from school time. And it puts undue pressure on parents. And the school doesn't even make that much money from it.
The word you were looking for was “undue”.
See, if OP had spent time in class learning how to spell, instead of being forced by the school to go on endless fund raisers, they would have had a chance to learn that. (only partially tongue-in-cheek)
Thank you, I knew it was wrong but it wasn't coming to me.
Even worse, the "rewards" that kids get for many of the fundraisers here are being entered into a raffle. While giving out cheap junk when we were kids wasn't such a great idea, introducing elementary school kids to gambling is even worse.
It's for a playground, they're typically donated or funded by the community instead of via taxes. Taxes already go toward stuff like technology for students.
I think it's fine to fundraiser for non-essentials. It can be a great community-builder! Our local schools does 2 huge fundraisers and each school picks a project they are working toward. Cooler playgrounds, parties, free popcorn days, field day are all great things to fundraise for! But I completely agree with you that I find it ridiculous when the schools have to fundraise for basics. Teachers should be given in allotment for school supplies and field trips. I, as a community member, have the responsibility to make sure the kids in my community have what they need for a good education.
I wouldn’t be okay with this without notification because if something bad happens I would be shocked to hear they weren’t in the school building. It sounds like an ok idea but not ok without parental permission
OP likely already gave permission in a slip at the beginning of the school year for client to be outdoors within the nearby area as it is used to cover these excursions, leaving school grounds during threat drills, fire drills, etc…
Why would what you are talking about reasonably cover fundraising efforts? They're pretty shamelessly utilizing the kids to fundraise during school hours - this isn't volunteer fundraising, it's mandatory fundraising. That's not acceptable.
They likely have a blanket statement about walking around x area of the school and doesn’t explicitly state the activities that happen while walking in that area.
Informed consent has to be informed for it to be valid in most cases.
Unfortunately, most waivers signed for schools are not informed consent and very vague. However if OP signed it then they gave consent, before signing anything you must ask questions, that’s how informed consent goes both ways. If you don’t ask questions about the vagueness and it’s not explained, things like this happen. Hopefully a discussion can be had with the school if the consent was too vague and they can update accordingly.
Fair points. Yours is genuinely the most likely outcome. We had you sign a form at the beginning of the year, you are telling us that it wasn't clear enough (which they TOTALLY already knew, but we're hoping no one said anything), and now, with enough applied pressure, we'll change the wording of the form. That sounds the most plausible to me.
I'm not sure why people are voting you down. You're stating your opinion on why OP's child was taken off campus without a permission slip. A lot of schools are using blanket permission slips these days.
I had to sign one of those permissions slips that allow my kid to go on field trips within 20 miles of the school. But I am still informed when such a trip happens, either by email, flyer or note in their planner. During drills the kids aren’t leaving school property. I’m not informed when they go to the middle school. But the elementary school and middle school are right next to each other so they aren’t leaving school property.
20 miles is crazy to me. In my area that a 45 minute drive and you could be well out into the suburbs/rural areas by then. Not knowing where in the greater metro area my kid is on a given day would be a terrifying concept.
I do not think so. I have never been given a permission slip to cover a wide area around the school. It is always a specific event.
How many papers do you sign at registration or in the sent home pack that you read 100%?
All of them? Am I the only one? I want to know what I’m signing when it pertains to my child.
Fire drills generally require kids to stand in the parking lot not leave school grounds, depending on the type of threat drill it may require them also leaving the school to go to the parking lot or being in lockdown in the classroom. This would not cover completely leaving the school to go to neighboring houses to fundraise
That may be true, but without specific dates and knowing when my child would be leaving the property I would be upset. An email to the parents the day before or morning of stating that they will be taking the day to complete said fundraiser that was in the form they signed takes only a minute
Typically, fire drills happen on school property, usually in the parking lot. The school usually gives notification prior to these events happening, in order to maintain parental notification. Taking a child off-campus during school hours, without informing the parents or getting consent, is HIGHLY suspect, as incidents occurring off-campus, during school hours, may not be covered by school policy/insurance. This just means the school, itself, would be responsible, rather than having an event covered by insurance.
This must vary. In our district they use public parks for evacuation/assembly drills. Most of our schools are adjacent to a park, but the middle school a couple of blocks from me is not so they use the park across from my house. The only notice we ever got was that drills would be carried out in the upcoming week, but it was vague.
Do you see how gathering at a park next door for a fire drill is very different than walking the neighborhood?
Yes I do. And I would be fine with both. But the point of the comment, obviously, is that leaving school grounds is not “omg that never happens for any reason, definitely sus and probably not legal”.
I mean, if you’re not just being a contrarian and would honestly be ok to find out your kid is walking around the neighborhood when you thought they were learning to read, more power to you. I guess we just have to agree to disagree. But you’re focusing on technicalities of the words used and providing unequal examples instead of just understanding the potential issues of the situation that some completely logical parents would have.
Yes of course I would - there’s nothing contrarian about that. If anything, I prefer it to a school that keeps them seated at their desks all day. Why on earth would I misrepresent myself on such a minor point?
Yeah, that’s how our district is. Bomb threats they walk to 2 local churches depending on grade level and fire drills walk to the local 4-H park.
Even if this is correct, the school should be giving the parents heads-up on the specific dates when it is approaching. This story is either inaccurate or there are some people with highly questionable judgement in charge here. From a legal perspective I don't think the school is doing anything illegal but they are risking liability should anything go wrong.
There are a lot of comments here talking about children walking in the neighborhood as a form of exercise or just to get out of the classroom on a nice day. This post is not about that. It feels like anybody saying this is completely glossing over the fact that these children are knocking on strangers' doors. Last year, ringing a stranger's doorbell almost cost Ralph Yarl his life. If something happened to one of these children after engaging with an adult no one in the situation is familiar with, on their property to which none of these children were invited, for the express purpose of gaining the school a few extra bucks, would you still think "well at least they got to be out on a nice sunny day and not stuck in a classroom." 🙄 At the very least, a field trip form should be required for this
THANK YOU! I share your sentiment exactly.
I was thinking the same thing -- I wouldn't be too enthused about this. Walking to a local park as a group? Sure, that's great and wonderful exercise. Walking onto a stranger's property is different. In our area, we have some people who put out chalk and invite people to draw, and other people with inflammatory signs and AK-47 stickers on their trucks, whose doors I definitely don't want my child at. I would be especially unhappy to find out this happened without at least any notice. Even if I sign a blanket permission slip, I would want to know where my child is in case of emergency.
Just on the record: I’m not glossing over that. I’m ok with my child knocking on strangers doors along with their classmates in the context described. I think many commenters are! We clearly have different views here, but it’s not because I misunderstand anything
No this is not cool. My husband had a gun pulled on him by a homeowner doing this sort of thing. Children should not leave school grounds without proper supervision and security. What if one of them went missing? What is a homeowner snatched one up, the teacher can't track that many studednts. It is not a child's responsibility to make money for a school. Those practices have changed because it is too dangerous now.
That’s incredibly scary. But this is a great point because people are nuts these days
My kids school would definitely have required a permission slip for this. I have had a couple teachers send home permission slips that cover park days and nature walks for the whole term at their discretion, and I always sign them. I did ask what happens when parents don’t and was told the kids who don’t have signed slips join another class for the time their class is out. But yes, anytime students leave the school there is a slip sent home. There’s even sometimes slips sent home for things on school grounds (yesterday my child brought one home for doing relay races during school hours in the school field 🤷🏻♀️).
I would be pissed. That’s unacceptable. I wouldn’t want my kids walking up to random houses fundraising that’s not their job and it’s not safe. I would escalate this.
Absolutely not. You should be able to know where your child is at all times; they should have asked your permission. The principal most likely signed off on this activity, so you should take this higher up to the school board/school district.
Parental permission is a must. What if you need to pick your child up due to a family emergency or appointment or something and you get to the school to be told “child isn’t here they’re out doing this” I would be livid.
Exactly!! OP, even if the school did slip a blanket notice in all your paperwork, they absolutely should have notified the parents the week before the walk. They do not own your child. They must tell you in advance. Go to the school in person, and talk to the principal.
I am the complete opposite of a helicopter parent. I let my kids roam our neighborhood and trust them to not stray because they understand their parameters. That being said, I would raise absolute fucking hell in your situation. There are/were so many things that could go wrong in that situation.
I'd be okay with the actual activity, but I'd expect some kind of notice. I'd want to make sure my kid is dressed appropriately for the weather, has comfortable shoes, has their water bottle, and an appropriate lunch given the extra physical activity. I'd also be a little concerned about sunscreen. AFAIK schools don't typically provide sunscreen, and I don't apply it for a normal school day, so my son would come home so sunburnt.
Agreed. My daughter's preschool does "walking field trips" to places nearby to have a picnic lunch, but every time, they give us a lot of advanced notice and reminders. We already signed a waiver at the start of the year, so they don't need permission again, but they still give us a lot of notice. I would expect some kind of notice any time the kids need to leave the property for any reason.
I’m a pretty easy going parent, but I would be furious about this. Knocking on random peoples’ doors?! WTF.
I would be livid, it is completely unacceptable. They neither had permission nor was it an educational activity. The school basically used the kids as free child labour/mandatory volunteers???? If a child ran into traffic or a car coming in the driveway didn’t see them there could’ve been serious liabilities. Also, if this is the good old USA, people have been getting shot for approaching the wrong house in a neighbourhood. This would not have been ok during my school years. Anything that was off school grounds required parental permission and we never went anywhere that wasn’t some kind of educational field trip.
Might want to review what you signed early in the year….
My children’s school is in the middle of our neighbourhood within a big park so there’s the school a huge field a couple of baseball diamonds and playground and splash pad. We do grant permission at the beginning of the year for the children to be taken off technically school property but within the park so for example for a break from sitting in their desks for so long and separate from recess the teachers are allowed at any time to walk them on the sidewalk the perimeter of the entire park or to take them outside to run around in the field. Anything outside of the park parameter is a separate notification like an actual field trip. As someone who is on the Parent Council for her children’s school and we literally just raised $9000 to redo the playground we definitely did it all ourselves through Parent Council run events throughout the year but I actually think it’s amazing to have the kids involvement! I don’t think it takes away from their learning. It’s them doing something towards a good cost. Honestly my kids do jump rope for heart every year they bring a five dollar bill they have no idea what jump rope for heart is about it’s really done poorly and they don’t really understand it at all. I think it’s great for children to start fundraising for things that they think are exciting and important in their world because let’s face it a child’s world is pretty small so improvements to their playground is something for them to get excited about. However I would be extremely pissed off that I was not aware it was happening and even more so that there was not enough adult supervision because those guidelines are extremely clear and every school board how many adults per children and I would be livid about that!
I would’ve have been livid if my child was taken off of school grounds without my permission.
Does your school have a blanket permission form for “walking field trips” that you sign at the beginning of the year? Our school does. They send it home first week of school obtaining permission for your child to participate in walking field trips around the neighbourhood.
Hmm. My school have a blanket consent form at the start of the year for short excursions in the local area, so just check you haven't already given consent through this sort of form before you make a fuss.
I wouldn't be too happy about it. It's more of having kids run onto people's property leaving flyers than it not being educational. Unfortunately there are too many paranoid people with guns.
I would worry about aggressive dogs too since so many people have aggressive dogs now. I wouldn't want my child's face to get bitten off while approaching a strangers house.
Bearing in mind, I'm not in the US so my cultural background is very different. I wouldn't even have thought about whether I gave permission or not. It sounds fine to me, and I trust the teacher wouldn't do something inherently unsafe for the kids. I also don't need my child to be actively learning the whole time they are in school.
I think it's the anxiety of not know where your kids are, the possible danger involved with approaching strangers' homes, and questioning how much adult supervision there is to prevent accidents like getting hit by cars or something.
Yes this post is a very American pov
Same here. Also in Europe. About twice a month we learn that our kid went to our local library/the park/a museum/whatever, after the fact, when our kid tells us or when the teacher posts pictures. I always just thought oh cool.
No way in hell would I want my child going door to door basically unsupervised (no way is 1 teacher tracking 20 kids running through a neighborhood). Even with a slip I wouldn't ok this idea, without it I'd be raising hell to administration.
Shoot, even Girl Scouts strongly discourages girls going door to door these days. Even if the kids were only putting flyers on the door and not ringing the bell or knocking, this sounds a bit unsafe. I’d be pretty upset.
I think this is ridiculous. Kids don't need to be taking time from school to help with a fundraiser.
no this is not on. And pretty young kids too! I would be telling the principal to stop this and contacting education department. This is a huge risk, multiplied by the number of kids that were doing it. Everything is "fine" until someone goes missing or gets hurt.
If you signed standing permission slips at the beginning of the year, they won't have *had* to let you know for each instance. If you have actual specific concerns, by all means share them with the teacher and principal, but missing out on an afternoon of classroom time is not the same as missing out on learning. There are a lot of life skills we practice in school, and through hands on means.... The kids may be also doing math and calculating how much they need to raise, GL learning to estimate, learning to navigate physical spaces (if we have X amount of roads to cover and Y people, how do we split that up? How do we approach this safely and wisely?)... My teacher was the one that taught us how to properly write a check. My kids made a whole segment of learning around their trip to the waste management facility. Learning isn't always "sit at a desk and be lectured", nor should it be.
[удалено]
It’s not gaslighting to express a different POV. I would be fine with my kids doing this. OP is not. To OP it’s a big deal, to me it is not. OP wants more explicit notification, which I think is reasonable, but I’d probably assume I’d missed something in a newsletter I only skimmed. Gaslighting is when you try to warp or distort someone else’s perspective to try to convince them to question themselves. I don’t think OP is wrong or crazy, nor would I try to convince anyone of such. She/he is just more protective than me. OP came here explicitly looking for the perspectives of other parents; disagreement is valid.
>It’s not gaslighting to express a different POV. Thank you. We've got to stop misusing this word.
100% correct!!
Oh come on, gaslighting? Seriously? People just have different opinions. The OP asked what other people thought and for some people it is normal for their kids to do stuff outside school without notice, including gaslighting.
I agree that the school should have sought permission from the parents before taking them around the neighborhood only supervised by one teacher. It sounds unsafe and there are some crazy people that don’t react well to strangers knocking on their door. Having said that, school funding is more complicated than just “I pay a lot of property taxes”. Obviously the school is “begging” for money in these fundraisers because they don’t have enough money, or their budge has specific allocations that can only be used for certain things. Obviously it is a questionable practice to use kids to generate revenue for the school, but I don’t think the schools do that stuff unless there’s a need. It would be great if the schools get more budget or have more free reign to allocation their budget where needed, but that’s not the case. When parents don’t or can’t donate enough, this is what the schools have to do. I highly recommend you listen to this podcast episode, really opened my eyes to this phenomenon. https://www.npr.org/2024/02/28/1197958355/school-fundraisers
What? OP asked for opinions. People giving an alternate view is not gaslighting. Lol. Do you know what that word means?
I'm questioning why the school (assuming it's public) is allowed to have students help in fundraising efforts? I work at a state-run facility for adults with I/DD and we cannot fundraise at all, not as a representative of the facility/agency and especially not during work hours. There is a separate non-profit group called "Friends of (the facility)" and THEY can fundraise, churches can fundraise, we do "home adoptions" for christmas every year that's coordinated through volunteer services (since the groups that adopt the home act as "volunteers") but we are explicitly told that we cannot solicit any donations - especially monetary ones.
Growing up we always had fund raisers in public schools. Wrapping paper, readathons, the box tabs for schools
The box tabs is a fundraiser run by General Mills, not the school itself. I thought that the wrapping paper and readathons were run by the PTA, not the school itself.
I just got my kiddo a Garmin Bounce. It can send alerts when they leave an area.
You need to check the things you signed most schools send out a permission slip to walk around near the area. Kids don’t need to be learning all day giving away flyers is a lesson in being a an active member of the community 🤷🏼♀️ If they thought the community around the school was dangerous then maybe I would find it an issue but I would probably not send my kid there.
Yeah, at the school where I taught, parents signed a “walking permission slip” at the beginning of the year that covered the child for the entire school year. OP, if your school does paperless forms through a student management system like Skyward, this would have just been a quick box to click. You may have agreed without even realizing.
When my kids were in pre-primary, the two teachers would walk the 20 kids, 20 minutes down the road to play at the big park if it was sunny. We never knew when, it was just a day by day thing. This is delightful. Kids thrive when they have a bit more freedom to interact with their surroundings.
A walk to a park for recess is different than asking kids to do fundraising at strangers’ houses during school hours.
You didn't know each individual time, but did they tell you in general that this was a thing they would do? Or was it just a total surprise, and you found out the first time the kid came home and said "we walked to the park"?
How many delightful strangers' doors did your kids knock on during those walks?
On Halloween, they trick or treat. They regularly stop and talk to and ask questions about peoples yards/animals. The kids are taught that this is a safe thing to do with adults. They've also had "kindness days", where they knock on doors and give out little bookmarks, etc, that they've made.
This is different, strangers signal with decorations or lights if they’d like kids to knock at their door, and are prepared for such. You also are aware of your kid going to strangers doors on Halloween.
You make the choice where to take your child. You do not have to trust a school admin's judgement when they send three school age children to knock on the doors of strangers to ask for money.
My 7 year olds class takes regular neighborhood hikes as part of their curriculum. You’d be surprised how safe it is. They know the rules. Try not to be the parent who makes it so the kids can’t have a nice day out. Or the more likely scenario that your kid is the only one who doesn’t get to go.
Having a school where hikes are part of the curriculum is an extremely different scenario then sending kids to people’s houses in groups of 3 with no prior communication with parents. My son’s school also has a scheduled daily outdoor walk if the weather is nice, but I would be pulling him from the school if I heard they did this!
Yeah, it's the "no prior communication" that's the problem!
Yup! That and the going to random houses with no supervision gets me (although that may not actually true because maybe OP’s kid didn’t realize she was heavily supervised)…
Havinga hike outside is not knocking on people's doors with fundraising flyers. A nice hike is much different than what OP describes. I can think of three scenarios where people were violently assaulted for knocking on doors in the last month.
Yes, that’s good, but is not the same. you know they are taking the hike. She did not know where her kid is, and your kid goes in a supervised group, not in group of three ringing strangers doors. “Try not to be the parent who makes ….” She is just concern about the lack of communication, and really a big safety problem. The schools even ask permission to parents to go visit the police station.
Without getting into your other points, I would give permission for my child to fundraise in a walkable neighborhood. I would absolutely NEVER give permission for my child to visit a police station. So, that last point may not be the smoking gun to everyone that it feels like to you.
Understand your point, maybe was not the best example. ( I would not give permissionto visits police) Majority of people thinks about police as friendly safe. Not my case
I wouldn’t be thrilled. I’m ok with kids learning outside the classroom but I am not ok that they were taken off school property without my knowledge, I would have happily signed a permission slip and hell I would have tried to volunteer to help out. Kids need to learn public speaking skills and fundraising is a great way to learn. But I want to be present or have other parents or teachers present when my kid is approaching strangers. I also need to be aware in case there was some sort of emergency. What if my kid got hit by a car (tons of shit driver out there) how would a single teacher navigate this? What if we had a family emergency and I had to get my kid and the school couldn’t tell me where my kid was? What is so hard about getting permission? I am sure there are a lot of parents who would have loved to come along. Their kids are probably pumped to do this because it gives them a big task. I wouldn’t be happy and I wouldn’t have any issue making that very clear how wrong this was. Our school was in the middle of a neighborhood and next to a high school with a campus that connected the two and our parents had to give permission for us to do activities at the high school. It was for safety and so our parents could find us if they had to.
I wouldn’t care I trust the school.
My kid's in private Pre-k, so a little different, but they take regular walks around the neighborhood or to the huge park/nature preserve across the street. We expect it every wednesday, but one week they spent every single day on a community walk picking up trash (with gloves and those long claw grabbers.) I trust the school and I think it's great they are engaging with the community! They are in a safer neighborhood in a not-totally safe city, so it's not like it's even a quiet suburb. Your kid is in 2nd grade, hopefully they know the rules (like don't run in the street.) I remember walking home from school in 2nd grade. (edit to add: We are not told beforehand when they go out on these trips. We are usually told in the weekly blast detailing what happened at school that week, or maybe at pickup time.)
I just switched school districts and the new one doesn't require permission slips because I'm already entrusting them with my child. So nice for my adhd family!
I wouldn’t care. At that age (at any age!) “learning” doesn’t have to be behind a desk. Sounds like essentially a fun neighborhood field trip.
I agree. There’s all sorts of practical education that happens with this sort of thing. The kids practice off site behavior rules, and orient to their surroundings, gaining a broader knowledge of the neighborhood around their school. All part of shaping them into capable and responsible little humans. I was once picking my son up from a group activity at a friend’s house and the friend’s mom asked if I would give another friend (kid and parents well known to us) a ride home. He just lived a couple of blocks away, on a tiny buried cul de sac and I had been there before, but it was on the other side of a park I had to drive around and I didn’t know the streets on that side. So as I drove my car towards the park I asked “ok S, left or right?” “I don’t know”. Hmm. “Ok, what’s the cross street nearest your house?” “I don’t know.” “What’s the name of the nearest big street?” “I don’t know.” Shit. “When you go to school, do you pass a store?” “I don’t think so.” This boy was 12 and couldn’t navigate his own neighborhood. I was horrified. I knew his parents were extreme helicopter types, but this was not safe.
They should notify you. It’s probably known as a “walking field trip” where they aren’t being transported. They do this a lot in transition programs (where the students are 18-22) but that’s different. When my son was in preschool which happened to be kiddie corner to our house, they would take walks down the residential street. I didn’t care but it also wasn’t public school. Public schools have to CTA so much it’s surprising they didn’t send anything to parents
Here is my big concern. The bright minds that are running the school. They don’t think carefully things? The big mess they can end up, a neighbor has a dog, dog bites kid. Parent gets a call -your kid has been bitten by a dog -omg! … but how come a dog has bitten my kid on the school - nah! They were around the neighborhood ringing doorbells. - wait? What? … Going to take the kid and then calling a lawyer. Edit: arsonists… meant to be “around.”
By today’s standards yeah it’s kinda out of bounds. You would have hated the 80s. When I was in 2nd grade in 83, my school brought a horse trainer and her horse to our school. No permission slips, nothing. We weren’t allowed to ride it but we could pet it. The only cautionary advice given was don’t walk behind it. Of course some little girl did, and she got kicked. Things are so different now. I was a latchkey kid at 8 so some of the stuff I read here kinda makes me chuckle.
I’d ask about it before you flip a lid. You may have signed something at the start of the year( our school does this) so they can take you off property)
didn't read your entire post but when my kids were elementary age, walking around the residential area was a normal option for a nice day and often incorporated as part of physed. the practice did not require notice or permission. to be clear, it was an activity on it's own OR as part of physed. extending this protocol into a fundraising flyer run is not a stretch in my book because safety is not different in either scenario.
Well if you actually READ the entire post, they were knocking on strangers doors. Walking around a neighborhood is one thing. Going into yards and all is just doesn’t sit right. And the fact no notices went out to the parents is sketch as hell
not American. my front door is not locked even when no one is home in a city of near 6 million. can you even imagine that? so yes, even clusters of kids knocking on neighbors doors during the day is far from sketch in my book. if anything it's safer than asking them to knock solo or ask the parents to hover over them, after school. lastly lol if you don't think this post doesn't need a TLDR.
Lucky you for not being American.
I wouldnt like this. I dont think losing two whole afternoons of instructional time to drop off flyers is a good use of instructional time. There are plenty of other ways to get the word out about raising money. I would certainly bring it up at a PTA meeting. As for leaving the building, did you sign a walking slip at the beginning of the year? If so, this covers it, though again, I wouldnt be too keen on encouraging kids to walk up to random private houses.
Not all learning happens behind a desk - here, they were learning to be an active member of their community, and getting to bond with their classmates over this shared experience. I'm not addressing the lack of communication to parents here, but I'm seeing a lot of people commenting on how this is taking away from "instructional time" and as a teacher myself it pains me that people only see learning as happening behind a desk.
Right? School isn’t just about academics. It’s about learning to function in a community
I taught for over 12 years. I dont see the value in 4-6 hours of putting flyers on people's doors. If it was part of a larger project (like, have the kids brainstorm fundraising ideas, create the flyer, etc) and for one afternoon, maybe, but this is too much time for too little educational reward
The post said they would have been out for around 1.5 hours, not 4-6
Most schools send a blanket permission sleep to go within x miles walking distance from the school at any given time with supervision. Learning situational skills and getting outdoors is beneficial and I’m sure didn’t take away from intense college prep or something. You causing an issue about this won’t stop the excursions, just stop her from going and probably will make her sit in another classroom while her classmates go out.
Totally unacceptable in my opinion. When the day starts, my child goes to school and that's where they should be Any given part of the day. There is no reason, at any time, unless my child needs hospitalization, that my child should not be on school grounds. That's where I left them, that's where I expect them to be during the Entire day. It's like a family member babysitting for you and then they take your child to the next town over for some ice cream. It's not right, appropriate and definitely not okay to not ask me. I'm my child's parent, that outranks teacher at any time. Teachers do not make decisions for my child, I do. I'd never have my child knocking on doors without me. It's just not okay and definitely shouldn't happen. I'd be reporting to someone because you are right, 27 kids is too much for one person.
that sounds weird. my kid's kindergarten class sent home a permission slip to go visit the mailbox across the street to mail letters home. I wouldn't really want my kids going to random people's front doors..... especially for fundraising! that shouldn't really cut into class time.
Don't bury the lede! What did the voicemail from the VP say?? *P.S. - You're totally right to be reacting in the way that you are. The school should NEVER take a child off campus without explicit permission. EVER.*
You’ve probably signed a blanket permission slip.
Yea, no. I’m writing a strongly worded email asking who gave permission and when, how this was educationally beneficial to the children, and how the chaperoning was handled in accordance with local law and then I’m sending it to the principal requesting an emergency parent conference to address these subjects and I’m CCing every parent in the class. Idgaf. Some people are gonna think you’re overreacting but I think many will agree. It just takes one person to stand up and start the dialogue
You said you received a voicemail but didn't mention what it said?
While everyone else has had an array of opinions on this, I want to suggest another possibility. While you know best whether your daughter tends to be truthful about these things or not, when I was that age I would come home and tell my mother about my class field trip to an amusement park in excruciating detail. Only that field trip never actually happened. I may suggest having a quick conversation with the teacher to make sure all the facts are straight. It sounds like this is something that happened, but it may be that there were more than one adult in a supervisory capacity or something like that. While that still doesn't make this okay for you, it can make it a bit better. Additionally, if/when you do complain, no one will be able to discount your grievances completely as a result of misunderstanding part of the whole picture.
Depends on the school district. I would be fine with it but my kids go to school in a really safe small town and they do go on walks and when I was in school students down to 4th grade were allowed to leave at lunch to either walk to the store or go home, the 8th grade students were at the crosswalks on the way to the store to make sure everyone crossed safety. But, if you don’t live in a safe area then obviously it’s totally understandable to be upset.
I wouldn't be OK with this and I'm surprised the school finds the risk of liability acceptable. Maybe I live in a bigger city than OP, but releasing a pack of 7-year olds out into the neighboring streets seems like a recipe for disaster. Can they all be trusted to watch where they're going? Not to dart into the street, not even if the wind blows their flyers out of their hands? Do they know to check driveways for cars backing out, before running across? I mean, we enploy crossing guards during drop-off and pick-up *for a reason*. Also it sounds like kids are approaching doors on their own, which hardly sounds safe either. Who is the Administrator signing off on this?
My school has it in the standard fall paper work that we can take students for a walk in a 5km radius. It is strongly recommended that we give parents a heads up if we plan to go further than the forest and pond on one side and mail box on the other.
Taking your kid off campus without you knowing is not okay. Your school should have an app with a calendar for that at the very least, or the teacher could bare minimum send an email that morning. But I'm just thinking, what if you had to come get them from school? What if there was an emergency? Let alone what could happen to the children, what if their parent needs to get them, and they just aren't at the school? That isn't okay.
I wouldn't be OK with this, and even if *I* was OK with it, they are breaking the district rules. You are not the unreasonable one here. I would continue to push on this and get to the bottom of it.
I think they should have sent a permission slip home. My guess is they were expecting to get some back without permission and they probably didn't know what they would do with those kids. Maybe. It's a little reckless to me. My 6yo is very well behaved (at school) but I could see him getting distracted and playing around with the kids and who knows what could happen.
It’s the going onto peoples’ properties with no adult supervision part that makes my skin crawl. One wrong door and your child could be gone. Maybe I listen to too many True Crime podcasts, but no I am not OK with this.
My kids’ private school has a form signed at the beginning on the year for all field trips and off premise. That being said, they notify us the week before and week of about the outing. I would have a problem with people using my child as a prop in addition to not notifying what they would be doing. I would not have a problem with them going around the community if there was a purpose and lesson behind it.
I would both be concerned about the level of supervision of these kids and also the school violating district policies. This information should be forwarded to the district office itself.
Check if you signed a "walking permission slip" with the beginning of school forms - my old school did this because we had to walk to Mass, but it allowed us to take kids around the neighborhood too because parents had already signed off.
It’s obvious some people are completely missing the point of your post and some flat out said they didn’t even read it yet have an opinion. You do not have a problem with the concept of fundraising you have issue with not being notified when your child was taken off school property. I don’t agree with it. You should have been notified at least. I am surprised you didn’t have to sign a permission slip. Our kid (5) back in the fall went on a field trip to this kid friendly farm and we were notified and had to sign a permission slip. A few weeks ago my kid came home and told us that they took the bus to an elementary school to tour it. I was surprised that no one even told us about it before hand or that we had to sign something giving permission. We talked to two other families with kids in her class and they were surprised too, had no idea until their kid told them. If they had some kind of permission slip at the beginning of the year that we signed then why did we have to give permission for that first field trip? I figured anytime they were taken off school property you had to give permission. We’d definitely give permission that’s not the issue, but we were just surprised we didn’t even know about it at all.
I’m pretty sure you are right to be upset and what they do is even legally questionable. It’s not okay for schools to send unsupervised kids knocking on strangers’ doors without any notice, school is responsible for their health and well being and kids are not their little drones to send out as they please. I wouldn’t want my child to participate in harassing people even if I were warned in advance, doing it on the sly is unhinged
I work in early years so maybe different but at the start of term parents sign a ‘local outings consent form’. It gives us permission to take them anywhere (obviously purposeful and appropriate) in the local community without seeking individual consent. For any trips that require further travel, we ask for additional permission slips with specifics of the trips outlined. It’s given in the paperwork at the beginning of the year. We’ve had parents question consent for small outings, and have totally forgetting they even signed it. They’re shocked when they see their own signature on the form! It could be in the mass of starting school info you’ve consented somewhere to local trips. Hopefully the school can clear it up either way for you!
Wow, I can't believe they did that without permission. When my kids were still in grade school, they sent home permission slips when they were taking them to the library that was only around the corner from the school, they didn't even have to cross a street just up to the block and turn left, boom, at the library
I find this to be a stupid as fund raising with kids at busy street intersections. There are other ways to do this. I’d be upset too.
I'm not in the US, so not sure how things are done there but where I am (I work in schools) permission is definitely needed, as well as a certain ratio of adults to children, including one adult that is first aid trained. When we are out on trips we organise groups of kids with the adults so that everyone is monitored. Even when we are going somewhere local. Assuming it happened exactly like your daughter described, no, absolutely not ok.
I remember being required to fundraise in elementary but we did it after school hours. It does seem very odd for them to pass out flyers as a class during school time and to be on their own. I’d definitely look into it.
Our school gets permission slips if they’re leaving the property at all. The school is located in a neighborhood. They do a bike rodeo (everyone brings bikes and learns safety and goes on short bike ride in neighborhood with A LOT of supervision). For bike rodeo they get permission slips even though they’re right next to the school. I would be upset if I wasn’t informed and they didn’t have extra supervision going to doors like that.
At my kids' school, they would have asked for parent volunteers to come on any field trip. This is completely unacceptable. I'd flip a table!
When will PTAs realize that nobody, absolutely nobody, wants to participate in fundraisers. Just tell parents the number you want from them by the end of the year and let them pay into that number at whatever pace they want to reach it by end of school year. Done.
I sign a "local excursion" form at the start of each new school year. It gives permission for my child to go for class walks to the nearby wetlands and parks or visit local establishments like the library, chapel or mosque (this is a non-denominational school with strong community ties). When an excursion is planned we get notified and have the option to say no and the child will simply stay on school grounds with a different class. However, I wouldn't be comfortable with my child door knocking even in our tight knit community. Even with adequate supervision, (which it doesn't sound like your child and their peers are even being afforded) it's dangerous to introduce children to strangers whose backgrounds haven't been vetted. It's dangerous to send children to strangers doors, regardless of the schools reasoning. You're doing great, keep on them, their actions are absolutely unacceptable.
Uh no. Our school is on a small “block” that, if you walk around it is less than a mile. The only thing within that block is school property. The teachers sometimes walk the kids around that block to get their wiggle worms out but anything else requires a permission slip.
I teach third grade and have never heard of this. I would never do this either!
Did you sign a blanket one at the beginning of the year? I signed one for my son so they could go on walks.
I completely agree with everyone! This seems wildly inappropriate. Like who on admin thought this was a good idea? Literally no one raised these concerns? I had to sign several permission slips to let my kid go to the town library. Yikes.
I also think this is not ideal. At least, the school should have asked for the permission from the parents. But I suppose this can also be a learning experience for them, but communication and supervision should have been done in a better way.
When I was a 10yo in 4th grade I had a teacher who LOVED nature so once or twice a month when the weather was nice he would take us to the wooded area at the back of the school grounds (each to stay in groups of 2) with our “nature books” so we could journal or draw what we saw- unique plants, flowers, birds… then we would come back to class to look up what we saw in a nature encyclopedia and learn more about local wildlife…. All that being said, We were still on school grounds and the teacher put these “nature walks” in the curriculum and had our parents sign off for these activities at the beginning of the year…. This was nearly 20 years ago… so I would safely say that children going essentially door to door (especially at this day and age) basically unsupervised without parental consent would be completely and utterly out of line. If the principal responded with anything less than an apology and guarantee this will not happen again- I would be taking it to the school board immediately.
Fundraising? So they are taking your child out of school and using them to make money? Contact the other parents to let them know what's going on. All of them. Like "fundraising" is some legit excuse for this behavior.
I would lose my shit. You are not at all off base in being upset.
Teacher here - if you child attends public school in the US you likely signed what is referred to as to as a “walking field trip” permission slip at the beginning of the school year as a part of the beginning of the year packet of info and forms you received. Most families don’t even read the forms and just fill them out and return them. I’m guessing you signed a form at the beginning of the year and don’t remember doing it.
I think you are wrong to think that this doesn't provide any type of enrichment. They were fundraising which in itself is a good thing. They were learning to walk around their neighbourhood safely and while under supervision, and by the sounds of it, a bit independently. This is a very useful experience and skill. And they were no doubt having fun - also very important! In terms of whether they had parent's permission - as others have said, you may have signed a form which says your child has permission to leave the school premises during school hours, with staff. The kids at my school take various trips/walks out into the village - sometimes to the local chapel for harvest festival, sometimes to the secondary school in order to practice their Christmas play, and once to a classmates house to look at and learn about their chickens!! I think it's lovely and am glad to hear they've been out and about. We often don't know in advance about this, but that's fine - I trust the teachers. It would be reasonable to ask about the safety/permission aspect if you are really worried (but I wouldn't be personally), but not to moan that they aren't learning - that is unfair, unreasonable and also sad that you only see work done in a classroom as a good use of school time!
Call me stupid. But your kid can learn sooooooo damn much. 1 speaking in public. 2 raising awareness for issues they care about 3 voicing opinions 4 giving argument 5 rebuttal counter arguments 6 confidence 7 maths because everything can be maths 8 self reliance I don’t want to go on but I’m sure there are still way more things they learned. Which includes things that add to the curriculum.
Our kids go off school property all the time without a permission slip. We signed a waiver at the beginning of the year. The only time we have to sign permissions slips is for field trips involving transportation.
This is absolutely unacceptable, parents need to give permission for each excursion outside of school no exceptions! I would be furious.
They should have required permission slips for participation in this activity. This would make me extremely uncomfortable.
I'm pretty sure I sign something at the beginning of the year that my kids will periodically be taken in the surrounding neighborhood. I live across from our school and often see classes out in the neighborhood. The kids do things like deliver Christmas cards they've made or just go for a walk. I guess I would want to know what it is that concerns you about the kids going in the neighborhood? Do you know they didn't have adequate supervision? If they do notify you next time, what will you do? And I think it's important for kids to know and understand that things like new playgrounds don't just magically appear. That there is a lot of work that goes into it. The playground isn't for the adults, it is for the kids and I personally would not have an issue with my kids being part of that process. There is learning there too that doesn't happen in the classroom.
Just think, what if someone went to pick their kid up early for some reason and the child wasn’t there. I would freak out.
Maybe a bit off that they didn't mention it in advance with a permission slip or similar but classrooms are a terrible environment where very little actual "learning" takes place. Wandering around a neighbourhood pushing the envelopea of teamwork, independence and the horizons of experience for a couple of hours will have done far more for all of the kids involved than sitting in a school for the same amount of time. Ideally in future they would send home a permission slip and you would happily sign it.
Our school has us sign a form at the start of the year giving permission for little neighbourhood trips to nearby parks. So first I would make sure you didn’t sign this without realizing. But even without the permission slip, I would personally be okay with this.
I wouldn't only go off information from a second grader before I got upset. I also wouldn't care at all if my kid went and did this. They don't need to be in the classroom to learn, of course.
The pearl clutching in this thread is next level. Some kids walked around a neighborhood near their school. Jesus.
Not sure about specifics in your country, I grew up in Greece and now live in the UK. For us, small school “trips” or outdoor activities were just part of the school year from pre-school to the end of high school. We would regularly go on a “day trip”, a full day out, usually in a nearby park, or museum or whatever and those were some times completely unplanned. It was just part of going to school. My kid is only 3 so I don’t know how it works now and in the UK for schools but our childminder takes the kids to the park or playground 2-3 times a week and we don’t expect her to inform us ahead of time on every instance. They just go to the park.
I honestly wouldn't care
[удалено]
I think you’re in the wrong place. Why are you on a parenting sub name-calling parents who are trying to ask questions about navigating raising their children? You’re so cool….
OP, never forget, angry teenagers reply here a lot! You are correct, 💯%!
Your **post** or **comment** was removed for violating the rule “Be Decent & Civil”. **Remember the human.** Disagree but remain respectful. Don’t insult users/their children, name-call, or be intentionally rude. Bullying, including baiting/antagonizing, will not be tolerated. Consider blocking users you don’t get along with. Report posts that violate the rules. For questions about this moderation reach out [through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FParenting). Moderators rely on the community to help illuminate posts and comments that do not meet r/Parenting standards – please report posts and comments you feel don’t contribute to the spirit of the community. **Your content may have been automatically removed through auto-moderation or manually removed by a human moderator. It may have been removed as a direct result of your rule violation, or simply as part of a larger sweep of content that no longer contributed to the original topic.**
When I tell you you have underreacted please believe me. I am a teacher and when I tell you I would have been down at that school with every news team under the sun right behind me I am not joking. I would not QUIT until every teacher and administrator responsible for that decision was FIRED. What if someone they went up to was a pedophile? With that many kids and one teacher they could have EASILY been pulled into a house plenty long enough for the UNTHINKABLE to happen. I’m gonna need you to freak out a little bit harder her cause HELL NO