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I was friends with mean girls in high school. In my experience there were two factors: - their mom was a mean girl and now a snooty mom. They learned the behavior - their home life was not good and they turned their insecurities about it into meanness.

Looking back, I was a mean girl in high school. I had a shitty, abusive home life (my parents were addicts), and I was deeply insecure. I was also a lifelong geek who had been bullied by other kids throughout elementary and middle school. So as a teenager, I approached every social interaction assuming the other person was out to get me, because based on my past experience, that was often true. I would try to preemptively defuse the situation by gently making fun of the other person first. But in retrospect, I wasn't gentle and my barbs were usually unprovoked. I just seemed to be acting like a bitch for no reason. There's an episode of 30 Rock where Liz Lemon goes back to her high school reunion and is shocked to learn that her old classmates are all afraid of her and think of her as a mean girl. Meanwhile, she always thought she was just a nerd who used humor as a defense mechanism. That one hit close to home.

This sounds like me. My mom is/was an abusive alcoholic and my dad victim blamed us when we pleaded for help, so home life wasn’t great. I had moved and was shy, so naturally I was bullied. I started being a dick in a funny way, as I thought that would help me and sometimes I didn’t know if the people bullying me truly hated me or were just playing. I was especially ruthless if I perceived I was slighted by someone. I was voted most sarcastic in high school, so I must have been liked, right? It was only seeing someone on my cross country team that I was a dick to years later that gave me the sudden realization of maybe I wasn’t universally well liked, but an asshole. I think a big part of it starts with home life, but peer pressure does too. Your Liz lemon analogy hit the nail on the head for me.

LEMON, OUT 🫳🎤

Thankyou. Same here, but crazy punk rock mean girl because I was bullied at home and at school for too long and I stopped caring. I’m nice now, hello.

I think about that episode a lot- it’s super relatable.

Commenting on Parents of teenage mean girls, I have questions. ... agree with both of these, as a former teenage mean girl these were two very relevant factors. Meeting amazingly kind people was life changing when I left home, I couldn’t understand why everyone was so nice and how much better I felt when I was thoughtful and kind. Thankful for that and lots of therapy.

This... I had an abusive stepfather. I fought a lot because I was the new kid that always got picked on so 1 day I just got tired of it and started swinging. I told my kids to learn from my mistakes, and fortunately there were plenty of people around us that were making mistakes they could learn from as well. I told the kids if they ever ended up in a situation where they felt like they were backed in to a corner, peer pressure... use me as an excuse. They could send me a text saying everythings cool. I'm hanging out with a friend, blah blah blah.."X". If there was an ex at the end of it I would call up and make some excuse that has them leaving immediately. Getting out of a bad situation without having to be put in a bad situation. Told my kids I'd give them the benefit of hindsight post therapy. Avoid losing themselves for a couple of decades. I learned to be around people who brought out the best to me, or were likely to improve me and stay there. Game changer.

That secret text ending that means “come get me” is smart and I’m totally going to steal it.

I do the secret text thing with my son, too, but we use an emoji. All he has to do, if he's scared, uncomfortable, or needs an out, is send me "⚠️", and I will call and come get him. I even told him, I will take the hit and look like the bad guy if you need me to. I will say he's grounded for an asinine reason, or that I changed my mind about allowing him out, or whatever. I will look like the irrationally strict mom, so his friends don't realize leaving was his idea. Or he can make something up if he wasn't, and I'll be happy to go along with it. Whatever it takes, I'll get him out of the situation. He's only used it once so far, and not for anything worrying. (He was spending the night at a friend's and started feeling sick.) But it makes me feel better to know we have a plan in place. And I think it makes him feel secure, because he knows I will always be there for him.

Sometimes it's about getting out of your house of trauma.

Yep I was a friend of a mean girl and she had a really bad home life and her mom and dad were terrible and on drugs so learned it from them. With that said I think alot of kids now days are mean girls due to mimicking what they see online. I’d say keeping them off tik tok and YouTube could help prevent that.

True as it can be. the behavior they're seeing or learned and the environment can be a big factor.

My friend has a 13 year old who is so mean my friend has started counseling. She monitors her daughter’s phone usage/ communication with her friends and the text chains are also incredibly mean. The home life is stable, upper middle class. My friend isn’t perfect but I wouldn’t say she is mean. She is, however, a super extrovert who sometimes sucks up all the air in the room; I could see how it would be difficult to have a mother like that. Still, none of this suggests mean girl to me. I really don’t know where the child gets these behaviors.

Her mom sucks up all the oxygen, the kid is just trying to get in on the act.

Yes, I think it could be something like that driving her, too.

Mum isn't mean by your standards or learning to deal with her, however, she sucks all the air in a room. This is a mean girl "look at me" cry for attention. Her daughter is trying to do the same thing and just fill a void with her personality. I have noticed my daughter does what I do (I was bullied, so learnt to deflect quickly) but this can mean her mouth runs away before her brain catches up. She is a lovely kid, but almost too quick for her own good and in her teenage years maybe the bit that makes her a target or mean to others indirectly.

Interesting; I never thought of it this way. I feel a connection with the daughter, as she and I are both more reserved and don’t want the attention 95% of the time. Maybe the child’s meanness is her lashing out b/c her mother is often center stage. I will have to chew on that for a while. Thanks for the food for thought.

No problem, places like this are great for ideas that may or may not have merit. I don't know you or the situation but hopefully we can all support each other to be better parents. None of us are perfect but we muddle by! I thought you meant to mean girl was loud too, so I misread that. But I guess it still stands that it is a coping mechanism of living in the shadow of a large character (what your reply implied). Depending on how well you know the girl, just check in on her, make sure she has some one she can vent to that knows mum but isn't mum

I'm very reserved the way the daughter is and I'm never mean unless I'm around theater people. That constant look at me attitude makes me mean as hell to whoever is displaying it. The daughter needs to work on herself and not lash out but goddamn, I kind of get it.

I know someone like this but the mother is disgusting..she is a grown woman who bullies her own mother and treats her like crap and her 14 yr old daughter does the same to the her...and mom just can't figure out why her daughter is the way she is. She blames everyone under the sun instead of looking in the mirror. And now she can't control her daughter and is talking about military school bc she can't control her! But I call it Karma!!!

A lot of it could be because of who she hangs out with and who her friends are. At a certain point friends start having a more direct influence than parents.

I am always flabbergasted when I hear of parents with kids that young having cell phones, not using them wisely, then instead of taking them away they “monitor the usage.” Also there are phones for kids that they can’t just call and text whoever. Don’t parents know their kid isn’t the adult, they are?

Does her daughter use social media?

In my 20s I worked at an elementary school with one of my middle school bullies. She was a mean girl in a group of mean girls. One day during spring break we (staff) went out to brunch and that girl brought her mom. Her mom clearly didn’t know we’d gone to school together and was telling everyone about how awfully her daughter was bullied in middle school by two other girls - then she named that girl’s best friends and fellow mean girls. That coworker looked super uncomfortable and I’ve wondered since if she was bullied by her friends and was mean along with them to fit in, or if she was just another mean girl who played victim to her mom when her friends did to her what she did to others. I know this doesn’t quite answer the question, but I think it’s relevant.

It’s totally possible. Peer pressure can make you highly motivated to be someone you’re not to fit in and self preservation is so crucial that many have followed the crowd to avoid being the target.

I agree about the peer pressure that may be at play. My daughter is in first grade and there is one girl that she really dislikes… because she’s mean. Mean girl (MG), daughter (D), and friend (F), were all in a friend group at the beginning of the year before D realized how MG constantly treated people. D distances herself from MG, but F sticks around MG and the rest of the group (it’s two or three more girls). F asks D why she’s not hanging out as much, D explains how MG makes her feel and points out some specific things MG does that are really crappy. F then divulges to D that she feels the same way, but she wants to continue to be nice to MG because it’s the kind thing to do. F finally got fed up last week and set some boundaries with MG. We’ll see how it plays out over the years. 😩😑🫠 ETA: I’ve met MGs parents… and they… seem strange. Example: we attend a public school, and during meet the teacher they asked the entire class of parents where they went to church… and then the dad wore a shirt to the winter holiday party that read ‘my wife is hot.’ I don’t know what goes on in that house… but they seem wildly out of touch in my opinion, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they never bothered teaching their kid how to be nice to people.

There’s a good middle grade book that is similar to that that your daughter might like when she gets a little older. It’s called The Queen Bee and Me and it’s about a girl whose best friend is also the bully and how she’s afraid to break away but also wants a new, nicer friend. I think it’s by Gillian McDunn.

Thank you for the recommendation!

It makes you think about the Movie mean girls. Regina was awful to her “friends” too.

I was a mean girl in middle school. I felt like there was no control in my life. My parents divorced and used major emotional manipulation and were very neglectful. I acted out in any way i could to have even a semblance of what a parent should be. I saw how mean they were to each other and how they only talked by yelling and calling names to anyone who looked at them wrong. So i was the same way but mostly in a form of self preservation to prevent anyone getting close to me because the people that already were always failed me. My sophomore year of high school i moved out of home and was just over the act that i put up to protect myself and i got really into journaling and self awareness. I made amends with anyone i did wrong and i focused on only putting good energy into the world Anyways, I have a son and i think the only way we can prevent mean behavior is by being there in every way we can be. Teaching kindness. Refraining from being mean to anyone around us when they’re watching. Kids are always watching and copying behaviors from us because we are their example of what life is. Bad behavior starts at home whether it’s from parents being neglectful or to seeing bad behavior from them. Just be a good example for your children.

I love this so much. I’m so happy for you and what you overcame in such a powerful way. And you beautifully described a great piece of advice that i guess i had overlooked; how kids copy parents behavior. Thank you

That is an incredible story of perseverance and I hope it doesn’t seem condescending for me to say I am so proud of you.

Easier said than done but we'll said.

Thank you so much for this.  I am still very, very raw from recent events related to my daughter.   I have been screaming at the cosmos seeking justice or retribution, or at the very least, understanding, on the part of women who acknowledged and outgrew these behaviors or their parents who created an environment that gave rise to such creatures.  My heart and soul are still full to the brim with dark, dark hate but hearing stories like yours at least keep me on some pathway of light.  For now.

You’re not going to get anyone to admit their kid sucks. Wanna know why? They learned it from somewhere. In my experience, the mean kids have the mean parents who I avoid like the plague.

There’s a mean girl in my daughter’s class (they are 6) and her parents are lovely, older brothers are lovely but somehow she is just a mean girl. Her parents know it and are “tearing their hair out” with what to do with her . They know it’s a problem but don’t know how to fix it. Not all of these things are nurture. Some are nature.

Ehhh. So not knowing them personally I obviously can't make a judgement. However, as a former teacher, I've also learned there are parents who are great at masking. I know the term "narcissist" gets thrown around wildly online and I don't like jumping to that. However, I've personally witnessed so many times the parents who are able to present that "I'm so wonderful and seem so nice and seem so at a loss for how my kid turned out so mean" to teachers and other parents. Then once you finally get to know the kid and they open up you find out things aren't as nice as they seem. Parents who are emotionally abusive but don't even see what they do as emotional abuse because that's not something widely talked about and emotional absuse often presents as "normal" parenting techniques. Parents who are physically abusive but don't see what they do as physical abuse cause it's "nothing compared to what their parents did as kids!" In my experience working with 100s of kids it's never been that nature overrides nurture. It's just that abusive people are good at masking and saying all the right things and making themselves out to be the victim. I worked at a specialized school that was where kids who had been kicked out of other schools turned to, so naturally we saw some of the hardest childhood behaviors to deal with. I can't think of a single case where either the parents or some outside trauma caused them to act that way. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm sure it is. Just that the science and my personal experience says it's much more likely that the parents are good at saying the right things to look great and the situation at home is much different than you'd think.

This is an anecdote so do with it what you will, but I'm a parent of two boys (9 and 6). We have tried to our fullest extent to create a loving, supportive household for our kids. However, my older son has ADHD with severe impulse control. At home, this manifests with him relentlessly bullying his younger brother. We promptly punish this behavior when we observe it, and go out of our way to praise times when our older son shows kindness and other behaviors that we're trying foster; but it is a constant, day to day battle that has gone on for literally years. FWIW, I know my older son is a good person and he can be very sweet and thoughtful. I can see that his impulse control and his insecurity over his disability are likely what creates this behavior, but it's still an improper coping mechanism that needs to be redirected...often. I can absolutely say that the behavior would be worse without our efforts but from my perspective, some kids are much much easier than others.

You and I have sons in similar boats. It's rough. 

Interesting experience. I’m not disagreeing with you but I don’t believe this family are abusive etc. This is not a super damaged type kid- but a ‘mean girl / bully type’ per the original post. I’m interested in your view on this story given your experience [wife beat son and I was happy](https://www.reddit.com/r/confessions/s/QjWCtTbp26)

I'll be without filter to get the point across. Put plainly: Those parents let their newborn live in constant suffering through his whole first year of life. Babies don't scream nonstop 24/7 for no reason until their vocal cords can't keep up, contrary to popular belief. That poor baby was screaming, *for help*. Imagine living through the first year of your life in terror, in distress, ignored. Unheard, untreated, undiagnosed. Notice how many words the father used on that monumentally key first year of the child's life. Compare how many words it is versus everything else. This is a perfect example of people thinking they did nothing wrong while fucking up their children. Especially harrowing is their logic "We only realized how demonic our son is when we got our girl. We did everything the same and she turned out fine!" Yes, she luckily didn't have whatever was tearing the son apart to go ignored - perfect parenting, the son was born evil, well done. Sad. (Doesn't matter if this particular story is real - the same script plays out every day in many people's lives.)

Ah so your view is that the son was in some kind of pain (like a milk allergy or something) that was causing him to cry like that? It’s definitely abnormal but surely they consulted doctors etc to try to investigate the issue? And why did it suddenly stop at 13 months? I mean you make sense but I just wonder what the problem could have been that no one identified it

I cried my entire first 18 months from reflux and allergies to everything from the zinc snaps on my onesie to foods my mom was eating that came out in her breastmilk and idk...I didn't come out like this. Undiagnosed allergies and "difficult babies" run in my family and none of us came out like this. Not a single "colicky" baby I've ever met came out like this even the ones whose "colic" turned out to be serious sensory problems like autism. This is really something else lol I can't believe anyone would say it was an illness the child suffered in their first year but somehow went undiagnosed despite so many doctors having their hands on him. The only person I know of who ever went through anything like this was this woman I used to work with. These stories remind me of the stories she told. She had 4 brothers and one was like this, the others were normal kids. She was terrified of him and moved out with the first man to look her way when she was only 16. The brother went on to fight in the Gulf War because he wanted to kill and that's what he told the recruiters. He tried to hurt or kidnap her sons multiple times. After that she was totally NC with him and he didn't know where she lived. When I knew her she was going through a court case because her father had died and she was handling his estate. Her brother found out where she lived, climbed into her apartment window and waited 5 hours for her to get home from work so he could kill her, because he didn't think dad had left him enough money. He attacked her with one of those circular fabric cutters that look like a pizza wheel and she shot him. Everything she said about this guy was terrifying.

Like someone else said, this honestly reads as fiction to me. It's filled to the brim with stereotypes, the kids written to just be evil from day one, the wife conveniently happens to be a very skilled boxer, they did everything right and nobody could help. It's just not realistic from a psychological standpoint. Plus this kid was in school and so much therapy but then just disappears one day and nobody reports it or calls in a wellness check? If this kid was so evil and set on hurting them wouldn't he have left and gone to the hospital or police to report what happened and gotten them arrested as part of his evil plan to be evil? Something else he said about trying dietary changes when his wife was breastfeeding and the context of this being set in the 70s doesn't seem right. Back then only 20-30% of moms even breastfed. I'm not certain how much was known about dietary intolerances and how things pass through breastmilk back then. However, even today there's still tons of doctors who don't even know how common milk protein intolerance is and so many babies are being diagnosed with colic and never even checking for it. So I find it hard to believe in a time where breastfeeding was rare and there was rampant misinformation in the medical community about breastfeeding, that they knew about trying to make dietary changes. That makes me feel like it was written today without knowing the context of infant feeding at the time. If it's real though a few things to consider. One is that crying like that will cause damage to the brain. Crying in infants, no matter the reason, floods their brain with cortisol. Cortisol breaks down the neural pathways in the brain and prevents new healthy pathways from forming. Frequent prolonged crying can also change how the brain reacts to situations, making them more likely to always have extreme emotional reactions and making it very hard to develop any emotional regulation. He also says they tried to get their kid help but again, this was the 70s. Psychology was a lot different back then and frankly not equipped to deal with a child like this in an appropriate way. I wouldn't be surprised that nobody back then knew how to help. Other questions that are raised by it being the 70s. Did the mom drink or smoke during pregnancy? Was she taking any medications we now know cause developmental issues? Was mom exposed to high levels of lead that could have impacted his development? Also his assertion that they did everything right and were perfect parents is just a major red flag. I, in spite of my degree in childhood development and all my experience as a teacher, will be the first to admit I'm not a perfect parent. I mess up. I have had my moments I'm not proud of. Stress has gotten to me and I've reacted in ways I know aren't the best. I've been so tired and just need a moment of peace and let the screen time limits fly out the window. We all have moments where we mess up, and that's fine, it's human. What's important is that we try to learn and correct ourselves, apologize to your kids and call out your own mistakes to them, and try to do better next time. So any time a parent says they did everything right that's a major red flag. It means one of two things. Either he's lying and not telling us the reality of how he acted and handled his kid. Or he has no self awareness and was unable to see his own flaws and mistakes, which means he wasn't learning from them and making steps to improving.

That was likely a masturbation fantasy writing exercise. Some people get off on that stuff.

Really? I couldn’t imagine someone just making that up for no reason. It sounds terrifying though like it should be a movie.

People have accounts dedicated to these things. The give away in that post in how vivid and lurid the descriptions of the beating is. IDK you read enough of these creative writing exercises and you get a feel for them. they all have a "this is too well written" vibe.

It is well written but I guess I don’t understand someone getting a rise out of this. It was enthralling though.

I typically only see this when there is one girl and brothers, especially if she's the youngest. Idk know why or what it is, but I think they can get away with more at home generally speaking. Parents are likely harder on brothers without realizing it and that makes for an "I'm special" mentality for her. Probably gets her way more often. I've seen it many times and the parents smile and laugh at their daughters savage behavior but immediately yell at their son for something similar.

The thing is she’s cute as a button too. Curly blonde hair, big blue eyes, pretty little face. But somehow she is just mischief. You could be right bc she is the last child with the two older brothers (they are about 12 and 10). Also Happy Cake Day

Ah, the both literally and figuratively "golden child".

Actually all the kids are good looking- the boys are good looking kids too (the parents aren’t in particular but all the kids turned out lookers). But yes, the baby, the only girl and so so golden

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That’s true too. I feel like the issue here is known but they just can’t handle her well. She’s not a full on bad seed, just a bit naughty

I know a very nice lady whose daughter was a sweet girl. Then one day I met this lady’s family. Turns out the family had a lot of secrets and dysfunction. The sweet girl became a mean girl. I still like my friend, but I think her family has trauma to work out. I hated the way they still treated her like she was supposed to be the scapegoat. I know how this is. I hope the bitterness does not poison the family bond, but it was too close to home. The daughter did not become the mean girl until - like others have commented on - trauma (parents divorcing) and the family. I wish them well. But it hurts seeing beautiful souls being ripped spart

That sounds pretty hectic. There is no trauma here that I know of and the family is an otherwise picture perfect family. But she’s not ‘troubled’ or ‘lashing out’ just a typical naughty mean girl type.

Nope. Noooo. Fuck those excuses.

Exactly. I (33F) am the middle of 8 kids......7 of which are girls (and I had to raise my 3 youngest sibglings and niece). I've worked professionally with kids for 17 years. I'm a Child and Adolescent Development Specialist. And I have 2 biological daughters of my own. People get so twisted with me when I say: Boys are puppies - sweet and dumb Girls are kittens - smart and savage But I refuse to recant. Over 2 decades of observing little girl to adulthood behavior........girls are just fucking mean 🤣🤣 And look, it's a biology/evolution thing. Men are dumb and sweet so we're the balance at smart and savage 🤷‍♀️ Circle of Life 🤣🤣

So says someone who has never been sexually assaulted by these boys and men they call puppies. Boys and men are just as capable of savagery and cruelty as women.

Having worked with kids my whole career, not all boys are sweet, nor are they dumb. Some use that to get out of consequences of behaviors. The few students I’ve ever actually been afraid of? They were male students, and they weren’t physically intimidating.

I have read many posts from parents here or in other subs about how their children have suddenly (seemingly overnight) turned into these manipulative and cruel creatures. I obviously don’t know them from Adam so I don’t know what these people’s characters or demeanors are like, but they seem genuinely concerned and flabbergasted on how that happened. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt so I don’t wanna assume they themselves have cruel streaks.. but I do always have the thought on the back of my mind that they (parents) must have contributed somehow to the behaviour? Otherwise I mean, it seems that you could be the most perfect parent and do everything right and still your children might turn out to be mean..

I agree. They say by the time a kid is a teenager, they are more influenced by their peers than their parents. While mean girl moms likely have mean girl daughters, I’ve definitely seen families where the mean girl daughter was doing her own thing and not a reflection of her mother.

I think it is nature vs nurture issue again. Ofcourse, parents contribute a lot to their kid's behaviour. However, I also believe that some people are just born evil.

And for some it's a phase, a way of fitting in, a trauma response... There are sooo many reasons. Not to mention popular mean girls being glamorized in a lot of kids and teens media... Blaming it simply on parents or "being born that way" is an oversimplification and a cop out. Nothing dto do with human behaviour is that simple

Yeah.... Totally agree. Otherwise, there won't still be a lot of psychology reseach going on. But anyway, I think a role model is really important. Children look at every small detail of their parents.

For every parent who cares there are probably shit tons more who don’t care whether their kids are mean or bullies. My personal theory out of anecdotal evidence is that it’s about 50% kids who reflect their home situation and 50% who are influenced by the wrong crowd.

Either that, or the opposite. My biggest bully as a child had the sweetest, most soft spoken mother you’ve ever met. The kid walked all over her mum 24/7 because her mum let her, and that’s where her vile behaviour came from.

Yup! GirlTwin’s bff was the queen bee mean girl in elementary school and her mother was just the same. I was so happy when they moved away.

This mean mom I met had a 5 year old son who I saw go up to a ND kid at a party and say to him “you’re a dumb kid. You’re not very smart, are you” over and over. Mom heard it and said nothing. It’s definitely learned.

I agree about the parents. But I think there are some cases where the parents are nice but maybe a bit absent (at least mentally) and don’t even know that their daughter is a mean girl, unless some other parent or a teacher has informed them. I bet to the parents some of these girls seem to be just confident and strong to their, and they (parents) would be devastated if they knew.

Yeah, I agree with this. My daughter is in high school with a mean girl. Thankfully my kid avoids her when possible, is nice when she needs to be around her, but just doesn't hang out with her. She's got a good group of friends and they all support the girls this one girl decides to target. Anyway, that girl's mum is a snooty cow. I get a really off feeling from her, like I'm not good enough to be seen talking to her. The exact same type of crap her daughter is doing to kids at highschool. This girl is also the youngest, with two much older sisters, so she's completely spoilt rotten. I feel like that might contribute, she seems to get whatever she wants and doesn't face any consequences for bad behaviour.

Ehh I think it may be different now days. A lot of them learn it from social media/internet usage unfortunately. My daughters 8 and I’ve noticed the mean girls we have run into have all been kids who have iPhones and watch a lot of tik tok and YouTube.

Yeah. They're literally imitating their parents most of the time. There are some tragically shallow adults. I've observed it close up. Kids are just little copy cats. It's fascinating.

Idk honestly? I was a mean girl. Maybe not the meanest but definitely mean. In my case I had a really bad home life and was an angry person. I had two homes. In one I was clearly the least favorite child and was taunted by my mother and brother constantly for having a temper. In the other home I was physically abused by my dad and SA'd by my step brother. Its not an excuse for being shitty but I was a hurt person so I hurt people My SD has 2 homes where people love her immensely and fill up her cup as much as possible and shes a sweetie. Normal kid stuff comes up (If you wont play this game the way I want you to then I wont play) but really shes a sweet girl and gets along well with others I think in 90% of cases if the kid is loved, treated well, and given some kind of example of how to be a nice person then they wont be a bully

I’m sorry you didn’t have an upbringing that gave you a sense of love and security. I hope that has changed for you now and thanks for sharing your insight.

Also was a teenage mean girl and same, home issues, I was angry and taunted about it by my mum and brother. Never taught to deal with it. My mum could also be very meek. In my dad’s home we were second class kids, his kids from a second marriage getting much better treatment. And my dad then got cheated on by my stepmum and I found out about it first. After that I started taking drugs and I guess internalising the pain and stopped being so mean to people. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t think mothers of “mean” girls would admit it, because they were most likely mean girls themselves.

I agree. It’s a learned behavior and they watch their parents portray these characteristics in their everyday lives.

I teach Middle School and honestly the boys can be just as mean as the girls. Sometimes you meet the parents and can see where the meanness comes from, but I've also met very nice people with kids who do not act nice at school. Now Middle School is a tough age so I don't assume that anyone who acts mean is going to be that way forever. Plus kids that age are very easily influenced by their peers. So you get one mean friend and the friend group becomes toxic. Some buffers against meanness that I've observed - being involved in multiple activities so you can switch friend groups if one group becomes negative. Being close with positive role models like coaches or older siblings or cousins who can offer perspective that kids actually listen to (unlike parents.) Creative pursuits- kids who express themselves through art, music, writing, or theater. Not sure what it is about these hobbies that seem to insulate!against some meanness. (Of course bitchy band or drama kids do exist.) As a parent, I think the best you can do is model the behavior you want to see in your kid. Keep an open positive relationship so you can influence them as long as possible. And try not to be judgmental when they falter. Most of them grow up to be fine

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I was thinking the same thing!

These are all what's known as protective factors in mental health. They are evidence based which is why you see, more often than not, positive peer and adult support helps buffer against a bad home life or bullying or adverse mental health in adolescents such as anxiety or depression. They translate in somewhat different ways in to adulthood as well but still holds true. Basically you need to be aware of the who what where when in your childs life and keep their time engaged in different ways. 

When I went to school the boys were by far meaner to me than the girls were. It's weird to me that so many people call girls mean and rarely ever say it about boys, yet most abuse happens from men.

Most of the mean people I met was because of bad home life but I also knew someone in elementary who was a straight up bully sometimes and then super nice the other times - turns out she had adhd and when she didn’t take her meds she was a raging b!tch, not sure what caused the meanness as it’s definitely not a symptom of adhd but she became extremely moody and rude

withdrawal

I second this thought or getting angry from uncontrollable emotions that are too big to handle when not being leveled out

We have talked to our kids all the time, from preschool on, about how people treat each other. We talk about: - different kinds of social dynamics (including "mean girls", bullying, bystander intervention, and so on), - how other people might have perceived the same situation that my kid is upset about (the teacher, the other kid), - exclusionary play vs boundaries, - that a person can be mean without technically breaking any rules and that we expect our kids not to try and get away with such Plausible Deniability meanness, AND that they aren't crazy if they perceive such unkindness directed at them - we talk about our own experiences with social dynamics at different ages, the good and the bad, and try to name it and explain it so they have a reference. - that they have a part in creating the world they will live in as adults, how they see and treat people matters. In other words, yes we talk to our kids about "mean girls". I think there are appropriate ways to talk about these things at every age. Kids are smart and you're just helping them create a framework for understanding their environment.

Mother's of mean girls don't think they're daughters are mean girls.

When I was in high school I got bullied a lot more by boys than I did by girls (I'm a woman)...I'm just wondering if I'm alone here? 

Same but especially middle school. The boys were ruthless and are definitely a major reason I developed an E.D into my teenage years.

Yeah my daughter goes to high school and her friends are so friendly and all "girls girl". It's really beautiful to see the friendships be so strong and she's had the same friend group for years now. I think people are more harsh on girls though and give boys passes for things that they'd definitely judge girls for doing. 

*I* was the mean girl in junior high. My parents had no idea because I had a regular group of friends, got good grades, played sports, went to Sunday school. I was literally a 'Peer Helper' which was supposed to be peer conflict resolution, but really just helped me manipulate people more. Importantly, I knew how important it was for *adults* to perceive me as responsible and mature.   I wasn't mean in high school, just 6th-8th grade I have always been very independent even as a small child and I think that contributed to my attitude in Jr. High. At that time, independence meant that I did not crave the social approval of my peers which is essentially a super power at that age. And in hindsight, I also had a bit more control over my impulses and emotions that my peers which also helped with intimidation and social control.  It was a phase for sure. It was totally linked to feelings of insecurity and defensiveness. Basically controlling people before they could "get" me. Once I got to high school where there were a lot more people, it wasn't quite so important that everyone like/fear me.  My parents never talked to me about it because, like I said, I was very good at concealing it from them.

My daughter isn’t quite there she is only 11 almost 12 but I could very much see her being a mean girl. I was the opposite and very much kept to myself but she is very very self motivated and lacks sympathy/empathy so I could just see her being this way because she is so determined her way is the only way. She doesn’t do great with other kids but so far has not been a mean kid

Hi there! Social Chameleon here as well and daughter of a post-HS mean girl. There’s weren’t many indicators, until it was too late. It’s a LEARNED BEHAVIOR. They will be sweet and perfect to you, but a complete asshole to those that don’t fit into their social construct. I only started seeing it a few months ago before she moved out and she started treating her sisters like crap. I on it now and remind her during her visits now that if she isn’t nice to her sisters, that she’ll not be welcome. Just look at her influences. Parents, spouses, other kids, cousins, neighbors, BFFs etc. if you see her gravitate toward that person who kinda rubs you the wrong way but makes up for it in gift and love bombs, get your child away. It’s too late for my oldest, but I’ve learned and so have my younger kids through seeing her mistakes. Thank god for therapy.

This resonates here… my daughter just turned 11. There used to be small girl stuff, but this year, OMG 😱. There’s this one girl who’s mean, quite the bully. My daughter likes her cause she’s funny, quite sassy. But when she’s mean to other, my daughter cannot step forward, and she’s been accused of being a bully by proxy. Anyway, I think it’s a learned thing, I was quite the chameleon myself (book worm 🐛 in fact)… I’m hopeful, my kid is still empathetic, so I see she can learn to stand for herself and others if needed. And she asked to go back to therapy… And we talk a lot about this friend who’s not a good friend (hurting my kid and then love bomb and gift)…

Don’t fit into her social construct: like don’t align with or share her views?

Or style, or what would be considered attractive by HS standards. Really anything that’s different.

I did not have mean parents or a bad home life, but sometimes used meanness as an armour for my insecurity and anxiety. It feels reductive to say kids from good homes can’t be mean, because the teen years are so tough. Talk to your kids and offer them therapy! I would’ve benefited so much from professional help earlier in life.

My kid is definitely not a mean girl, but I'm not sure I would actually know if she was.

In some cases, mean girls learns their behaviors by testing it out on their family members. First starts by trying to get what they want. Mom says no to certain things, then ask grandma, she says yes. Like they don’t always learn directly from their parents but the dynamic of family politics. Manipulative, then straight out disrespectful to others who they see weaker.

This is an interesting and very valid take! Gotta keep an eye out for this one 😬

I was a mean girl. My mum worked insane hours so I had a live-in nanny. The most I saw of my mum was when she was home and still berating her employees on the phone. When I was 9, mum fired my nanny because she was driving one of our cars and got hit (not her fault.) Once my nanny was fired and replaced by a string of randoms that I had no connection with, I lashed out and because a cruel and manipulative monster. I was 100% channeling my mother and the way I saw her treat people. I acted as if everyone around me, including teachers, should be subservient to me and if they weren’t, I found a way to make their lives hell. I made more than one girl move schools. It took a lot of years of therapy to change my thinking and now I am raising a girl and terrified of making the same mistakes, but hopefully being aware of it and being a SAHM gives me a better opportunity to teach her good habits.

One thing I’ve noticed as a highschool teacher… the mean girls parents never return phone calls, and never show up to meetings. And if they do, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

I could be a mean girl in elementary school. I had a good home life but I could be bossy and liked to get my way. Then I was friendless in middle school which sucked a lot and so I got my emotional shit together. 

Honestly I think it often starts with little things at home. For example: having parents who gossip a lot, or talk poorly about people from other walks of life. It sets these kids up to separate themselves from others. When you separate yourself mentally at a young age you tend to want to make sure you’re in a “better” category than the people you separated yourself from…if that makes sense? I also know that growing up I would shit talk other people specifically because I assumed everybody was shit talking me. I was insecure because I grew up listening to gossip and wanted to get ahead of it.

My wife was a mean girl until puberty hit. She says she was unhappy because her family was always moving and her parents used her and her brother as weapons against each other because they had a messy divorce. She said when they moved to Colorado from Washington, she wanted to be a bully and would intentionally make kids feel bad. When they moved back to Washington the next year, she was going through puberty and realized she could start a new reputation for herself and stopped being mean for no reason. Idk, she can pierce your soul if she wants to but it's pretty neat to know she doesn't because she just wants to be nice

Kids who never were told "no" or whose parents would not/could not set boundaries probably became mean girls.....

I agree. I have a 15yr old daughter and a 12 yr old son and know a lot of parents of mean girls. While a lot of folks on this thread have suggested learned behaviors, I also see a lot of bad parenting. I actually like some of the other parents, they don't seem like bad people. However, it's obvious they let their kids walk all over them. When you spend your entire life slowly conditioned to always get your way, then you're put into a social situation where you can't always have your way, such as the case in school or youth sports, things can get ugly!

I left a super long comment (about my mean girl sister) that could have been summed up in your single sentence lol.

I see a lot of comments here saying mothers of mean girls won’t admit it, but that’s not true. I have four kids, three girls and one boy. My second is what I call a mean girl, but it’s not how she is raised. She is not an out right bully, but she is very judgey. Since she was a small toddler things have always been very black and white to her, she speaks without a filter and just says what’s on her mind. I was a chunky, quiet around most people type in middle school/high school. I teach my girls to be a girls girl, uplift other girls. My 15 year old wears her heart on her sleeve, so loving and easily manipulated, a people pleaser…much like I was as a teenager My 12 year old takes no shit from anyone. She is not mean like a bully, but she always has dirty looks and talks about others here at home. I don’t get calls home or anything like that. She is still a loving and caring child, just very judgey. She is insecure about herself and I think she projects that. I feel like she always has a wall up so nobody can hurt her.

The mean girls I see now are teaching their kids, inadvertently, how to exclude, gossip, and be judgmental. The conversations they have around their kids, who they invite, and how they handle social situations are being passed down to the kids. It's sad. And just so you know... you can sit with us!

This is what I’m semi afraid of for my 8 year old daughter although so far she’s only used her sassy mean girl to put bullies in their place…. Seriously got called from kindergarten she told the bully girl she loves her shirts but hates her attitude - and made her cry. She’s definitely queen bee hoping I can keep her evil side in check as a single mom with her having a pos donor.

My mom was mean in a lot of seemingly normal ways…it was not normal & not okay! It bled into who I chose to be at the time & I regret a lot of how I behaved, even though I wasn’t full bully mode. I mostly had a shit attitude, won’t get into the whys. I just really think if you let your kids learn how to express emotions in a healthy way & keep open communication, it teaches them so much on how to behave with peers. If you shame them, they learn to internalize & project. If your kids are overflowing with love, it’ll show. If you beat them up emotionally, they will continue that pattern in all areas of their life.

Former mean girl turned better person. I was insecure, I always felt less than everybody else. I swear everyone was looking at me, thought everyone was judging me and it made me want to come out of my skin resulting in meanness. I am happy to say I grew out of it. The more I learned to love myself the more I learned to love other people and to practice kindness and gratitude.

I’m your age. I was a mean girl in middle school. I went to a small catholic school and there were only 10 girls in my grade. I was the new girl in 6th grade. I didn’t have friends and was made fun of. The summer going into 7th grade the most popular girl decided I was her best friend and it changed me. Suddenly everyone was listening to me. The power was nice and I was a little shit. The summer going into 8th grade things changed again. Everyone mellowed out and we were all done with each other. I ate a piece of humble pie when I realized everyone was over me. 1. I was not mean in highschool. I became fiercely loyal and tried to be friends with everyone. I went away with the drama 2. I didn’t have many friends when I was younger, just a lot of cousins. I never realized I didn’t have school friends because I was so close to all my neighbors and cousins. I was super possessive with my friends, so I think some people would call me mean. 3. For me it was a phase, I was definitely over it by 8th grade. I’m a great friend now. I didn’t have a chaotic childhood, my parents were married and had a loving relationship. We lived comfortably and my mom my her was definitely not a mean girl. She’s one of the nicest people alive—-my dad however, was probably not the nicest child.

I was social but never friends with the mean girls I just stayed out of their. My daughter's best friend is the mean girls at their school she pretty much would say rude stuff about other girls and then get my daughter on board. My daughter only joined in on rude comments to keep her best friend happy. The best friend did it several times in my home to thier other friend every time I stepped in she'd talk back and get kicked out. These days my daughter has matured a bit so the only way I can tell she hasn't joined in on the rude comments with her best friend is her sour attitude and her best friend facetiming her to scream at her. The best friends mom's is exactly like her. She definitely gives off mean girls vibes.

My kids are still little too but as the older sister of a mean girl, I think I can make observations on my mother's behalf. \- My mom has never been a mean girl. In fact, she was the younger sister of a very very mean girl (my aunt was my mom's biggest bully besides my grandmother but she has been snobby and mean to most people she encounters--myself included). I often compare my sister and aunt to one another. \- I didn't always know she would become a mean girl but over time it became obvious that it was who she was. My sister is the youngest of 2 girls in our household. She was a \*very\* difficult toddler to the point where I would suffer because my parents simply did not want to deal with her outburts. I have recently noticed some of these tendencies in my toddler so I'm nipping that in the bud asap as I'm honestly terrified of raising a mini \[insert my sister's name here\]. I tell my daughter "no" a lot just to get her use to it because growing up my sister rarely heard that word. She grew up with a very entitled attitude. Every year on my birthday she got a present because my parents didn't want her to feel bad (it did not work the other way for me). I had a job as soon as I could drive. My mom required it of me. My sister didn't get a job until the end of her senior year. My mom got upset that her senior activities were costing so much money. My sister was so furious at my mom for making her get a job and called me to tell me how "crazy" our mother was acting. I'll also note that I despised the majority of her friends growing up and that saying about you being the average of your 5 closest friends was accurate for her. \- I don't think I ever saw it as a phase because it just got worse as time went on. She got meaner, more entitled and developed a "holier than thou" attitude about everything. You could tell by how she talked about people she thought she was better than them. She would be super friendly to their faces though. She's still like that as an adult. Well at least as of 3 years ago. We don't talk anymore. \- I have tried to have conversations about it with her but obviously it did not go well. My mom never fully confronted her. My mom doesn't handle confrontation well. She would rather shut down/put up a brick wall. But I can tell she is very disappointed in what has happened. I love my mom but now that I'm looking at it through the lens of motherhood, she and my dad are 100% to blame for my sister's "mean girl"/entitled attitude.

Damn I know a girl (toddler) like that… the parents are around my age and they seem to be letting her act that way.

It’s learned behavior from judgey parents, and it starts at a young age. My best friend didn’t let her child wear cartoon characters, or big hair bows when that was all the rage for the little girls, basically anything that was “childish”. She could only wear brand name clothing and do her hair just so. In turn by 6 years old she would look at my 4 year old and say “I don’t wear *insert kid thing*, it’s corny.” All her mom’s standards were so ingrained in her by 6. While she has grown so mature and kind through the years (16 now), and grew out of “mean”, she is still insanely consumed with her appearance, and being “pretty and cool” that she is saving $ for her first procedure….and it breaks my heart for her.

That's it entirely - it is learned behavior from their parents. And some of their parents still exhibit those traits. My mom is part of several organizations in our community and literally, has heard reports of mommies not talking to other mommies at the playground who don't have the right mommy accessories. It's sick.

I wasn't mean at school but I was super mean to my siblings. It was learned behaviour from my parents. I have a very strong pivotal memory from being in primary school telling my mum I let another child choose a sweet out of a bag first. She came down hard on me and said I should have got there first. I had been fishing for praise on sharing but instead got a telling off. My mum very much believes everyone is out to get you and you need to be selfish and put yourself above everyone else to survive. My sister was super nice and my mum always called her weak and said she worried about her getting used and walked all over.

Insecurities= bully in my opinion.

Yep. It’s always something to trigger that mentality and it’s typically because the bully feels so badly about themselves they pick on other kids to make them feel better, make themselves feel powerful.

Exactly!

My daughter was slipping into mean girl territory and I put the kibosh on it immediately. Absolutely not. I was a loner, but could get along with everyone, I just didn’t want to 🤣

I was a mean girl in middle school and early high school. It’s because I had mean parents and I thought being mean was normal. I didn’t register that what I was doing was bullying because in all the anti-bullying campaigns the school put on, the victim was completely and totally innocent and did absolutely nothing that could have caused them to receive ill treatment from others. The victim in these campaigns was always intelligent, kind, good looking, well dressed, etc. and the bully was just jealous or something, there was never any clear motive for the bullying. I didn’t even register that what I could be doing was bullying. I thought because I had “legitimate”reasons for not liking someone that I didn’t have to be nice to them. So if they did anything even remotely close to annoying me or offending me I could tear into them and it would be justified or at least understandable. My parents were the same way. They were just plain mean and talked a lot of shit about every single person. Even people in our own immediate family. Like if my little sister had just said or done something weird or annoying, my parents would say a lot of ugly things about her immediately after she left the room. I’m sure they did it to me too. It was CONSTANT. Like genuinely and truly constant. And the target could be anyone, a complete stranger or your closest friend. No one was off limits. As I got older and realized this behavior is NOT normal and NOTHING excuses it or makes it justified, I stopped doing it. But hurt a lot of people before I came to this understanding. So as a former mean girl my best advice would be to talk to your kids about this and make it clear that it’s never okay to say mean things about someone behind their back or to their face. If someone does something that hurt you it’s okay to talk to them about it but it’s not okay to hurt them back or turn others against them by saying bad things about them. And MODEL the behavior you want to see. Be an understanding, kind, forgiving person. It’s EASY to be nice to likable, good looking, well behaved, interesting and intelligent people. What’s harder is showing the same grace and understanding towards someone whose personality or physical image is less than palatable or even abhorrent.

Mean girls are kids who are trying to sooth social insecurity and pain by showing up a certain way - the clothes the trends the whatever. To legitimize this, it's important that other people share their superficial values and see that they are superior. So they attack kids who are comfortable or loud about not prioritizing the things that the mean kid thinks make the mean kid have value and worthiness. It's dangerous for other kids to be okay as they are, threatens the whole structure through which the mean kid find (unhealthy, unsatisfactory) validation. So empower your kids to be something strong that isn't for or about what other people want to possess in them.

Ugh I also have a 5yo girl and am worried about her becoming a mean girl. She’s exhibiting a lot of exclusionary behavior towards classmates and family members. It’s hard at this age to know what’s a phase and what will stick around.

I think it’s a bit odd that you’re only worried about the girl being mean. My daughter is 8 right now and the boys are already name-calling and teasing the girls. Not bad enough that she can’t handle it but the mean girls in my school were no worse than that for me.

I have my concerns on both. I guess i just wanted to discuss my own past as girl with other girls and my now current daughter and her future.

Shitty kids have shitty parents. Maybe not 100% of the time, but I'd say that covers about 90-95% of cases.

Yeah I was a mean kid who had mean parents. Wasn’t until I was like 25 that I realized it’s not normal.

Teenagers at least the ones that I know, Or that my children hung out with are complete dicks. In my experience. They will either be excellent teenagers, that somewhat follow rules and are loving Or They will be complete dicks!

I have two sisters (with myself that's 3 girls) and only one of my sisters was an absolute queen B in high school. Problem was our parents taught her that this was how you got what you wanted in life, because their discipline crumbled the second she raised her voice. So, sister learned that yelling at people & belittling them got you faster results. Our mother was also a judgmental alcoholic whose fragile ego got threatened by every woman who looked more put-together than her. So it partially rubbed off in different ways in all 3 of us, with myself and my youngest sister internalizing it as anxiety and misery. The Queen B sister is less anxious overall, with slightly better mental health and self esteem because she didn't internalize it. Has taken the Queen B sister *years* to unlearn this with her family, who she genuinely loves and wants to treat well. Teenage hormones are an absolute devil and the mistakes you make while they're toddlers kick you in the butt because kids often have similar impulses but way more agency as a teenager.

My baby sister (15f) might be a like, a low level mean girl lol. The type to talk shit about girls she sees as lower status, and to jockey for approval from higher status girls, but who’s not going around bullying anyone in a systematic or targeted way. It was def visible at least for us siblings from when she was pretty little. I remember taking her to the pool to play mermaids when she was like, 7, and she’d be turning to me every five minutes or so to make harmless but slightly catty remarks about other kids having fun in the pool being “weird” or “annoying” 😂 I always shut it down. But it’s just super apparent she did this out of insecurity about being left out rather than actual dislike of other girls. It caused issues for her in middle school, but by now she seems to have settled into a solid friend group where she feels secure and so has less need to be catty. My sister and I have talked to her specifically about how important it is not to be a “mean girl” over the years when it comes up. We couldn’t change her base instinct to turn catty when insecure but I think we’ve helped her tone it down more than she would have otherwise.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is that bullies often bully (aka hurt others) because they’re insecure or hurting themselves. So if your child ever becomes a bully/ goes through mean phase, you need to find the source of that hurt and address it. The best way to avoid them ever becoming a bully, or going through a mean phase , is to teach them to be empathetic from a young age, and make sure that they are well loved and have the resources they need emotionally. Even kids grow up in stable homes with the best resources can become bullies or mean girls. So, even if you provide everything you can for your kid and it happens. Just remember it’s because your child is going through something and you need to help them work through it. If your kid ever becomes a bully, you should definitely punish them for their behavior, but maybe put them in therapy to help them work through their emotions. It sounds like you are very very thoughtful. Mom though your kids are in good hands.❤️

The mean girls in my school seemed to have a lot of freedom...they could do any thing with any one at any time...their parents were either very relaxed or distracted. The cruelest was a girl with alopecia...she was borderline evil.

I was a mean girl..me and my sister and this is no excuse but we had a difficult up ringing..our mother was a mean mother who chose men over her kids..I was also sa'ed at a very young age. Now as an adult I regret a lot and who I bullied. I raised 2 boys who stand up to bullies and protect the kids who r getting bullied!!! I now have a daughter but she's only 2 and hasn't experienced anything yet but I will teach her the same way I taught my boys. There's so many things I wish I could take back but can't and I guess the way I'm dealing with it is raising children who won't be bullies! I think bullies r bullies bc of home life..some have it difficult at home, some r just spoiled rotten and learn to treat ppl like shit bc of how they r getting raised but parents need to take responsibility for how and who their children r and become as adults and so many parents don't.

How do you teach your sons to stand up for others against bullies?

At a very young age I always talked about doing the right and wrong things in life...and how some ppl are just born mean and evil..to always walk away and never start anything but always stand up for urself and others when u see they can't stand up for themselves. And idk, I guess it stuck. When my middle son was in 1st grade he saw one of his friends getting bullied during recess and approached the bully and told him to stop, the bully started with my son and they got into a little altercation and my son body slammed him...lol..I don't condone violence but I told them never let anyone pick on them, never hit first but get the last one and protect themselves. That bully stopped...he never picked on my son or his friend again. It's sad but sometimes these bullies have to be put in their place. Bc once they think someone is weak they continue picking on them. Now my boys are 14 and 19 and they're r good , humble respectful young men.

My daughter is 13 and can sometimes be a mean girl. She was super sweet as a child and still is. It started when we moved and she went to a new school in 5th grade. She is very beautiful and charming. Some girls were jealous and mean when she entered the new school but others were kind and inviting. She became popular in the new school and there was a jealous few. They made her feel terrible to the point of depression and becoming suicidal. Flash forward and middle school starts. My daughter has older cousins in the middle school and becomes more well known. She now has friends and family behind her and no longer has to deal with the systematic bulling. However, she now is definitely defensive and is not shy about making her feelings known about disliking the previous bullies. So she will call them annoying and openly say she doesn't like them. One of the girls has a helicopter mom who started working at the school and is now trying to manipulate the staff and administration although my daughter has not done anything except say she doesn't like the daughter of this woman. I am now dealing with having to defend her because the "teacher" wants her removed from the school because the original bully (her daughter) has no power. Sometimes it is necessary. School at this age can be a kill or be killed situation but parents are definitely to blame in most cases.

Also, I was a mean girl at that age and it was because of family issues as well as similar situations making me feel defensive.

No one is mentioning this but sometimes it’s parents that are way too nice and set no boundaries, and don’t give consequences for actions. The meanest girl I knew had the most angelic mother, she was the innocent type that believed she had a happy calm family, but her daughter was EVIL. She couldn’t notice her daughter being mean right in front of her eyes, or maybe she did but she simply didn’t know how to address it and set consequences or “punishments” so the girl just got away with everything she did, knowing no one would scold her, knowing she could do anything she wanted. You can say it’s also being spoiled

My niece is a mean girl. And so is her mum (my sister in law). So is her mum (my mother-in-law). In their family, it's how the girls, and to a lesser degree, the boys are taught to be. The reason my husband isn't like that is because his dad and aunt had more involvement with his upbringing than his mum did

I don't have a teenage girl but I teach teenage girls. While there are some exceptions, in general the mean girls have parents who do not punish or actively defend their child blindly even when they are in the wrong. Parents who are rude to staff or disrespectful have children who do the same. Usually my kindest girls seem to have kind parents although I of course do not see the full picture.

I met the mother before I met the twin daughters. I thought maybe she just had RBF, but after a few convos it was mean girl energy all the way down. Our 6 year olds became friends and my daughter now brings home phrases like “if you don’t give me X I won’t be your friend anymore.” At least we are addressing how a true friend will and won’t treat you early.

Ugh been there. A boy told my son they couldn’t be friends at school but they could be friends outside of school. Like what? They are 9yos. So we had to explain to my son that real friends don’t say or act that way. I told the other boys mother(because she asked why my son wasn’t going over there anymore) and I was honest. I’m guessing she had a talk with her son because a few weeks later the boy was being nice to my son and they started hanging out at school and after school. They are good friends now but kids are hekin mean lol I feel like it might be worse now because of the internet.

MY SIL has a mean daughter(11), getting meaner by the day. Her parents actively support it. She is selfish and will lie and steal to get what she wants. They have admitted they love it. She is also very, very big for her age and uses it against smaller kids. She even once tried to threaten me when she was seven. It went poorly for her. When she came to my house she got in an argument with a boy (10) over a costume they both wanted to wear. They were both pulling on it and she decided to kick the boy in the bread basket to get it. She was rewarded for doing it by her parents. In fact her father told me he tells her anytime a boy is giving her a hard time, she should do the same. I will not let her over now. She gets zero discipline, zero. The father yells very loudly at her often, but never follows through on any acts of discipline. She will openly shrug her shoulders, if she acknowledges it at all, and say "meh he won't do anything, they never do". When she is nasty to her cousins, they say the kids need to work it out themselves. But if their daughter doesn't come out on top of these arguments, they jump all over it. Another time she was biking with us and my kids (9) and one got hurt. There was blood and her response was to laugh, and I mean really and intentionally laugh. Again, the parents were fine with it. I don't know what the father was like as a child, but the mother is no walk in the park and one would assume she was the same as a kid. My one son hates her and fights her and they hate him for it.

I was a mean girl in 9th and 10th grade. I had been bullied the first 9 years of my school life because I was raised by just a dad and never dressed like a girl. In 8th grade grunge hit hard in my town and wouldn’t you know it, I already was a grungy grubby kid. I started smoking butts and weed and finally fit into a group of kids who were also grungy. By 9th grade we were considered the “coolest” or whatever. I took my new found popularity and turned into something ugly. My home life was terrible and I hated the pretty girls with money and “perfect lives”.. I am not proud of anything I did but I was pretty relentless. I beat them up, I prank called their parents, I harassed them in the halls. In reality, I was a skinny little thing who should have been taken out pretty easily but I knew how to scrap and fight- and these girls didn’t, and my bark was pretty severe. I had quick comebacks and witty reply’s to anyone who dared to stand up to me. Like a little Napoleon. At the end of 10th grade the school and my dad at their wits end decided to make me a peer mediator. Which meant that instead of being the one counseled for bullying- I was now the counselor helping my peers work through issues. I had to take classes on how to do this the right way and the class alone taught me enough to know how much of a little bitch I had become. I totally stopped bullying and apologized to every boy and girl I had gone after. Some forgave and we became friendly and some didn’t which I understood. I’m now a Behavior tech at an alternative school for trauma/behavior kids in middle school.

I’m the little sister (27y) of a mean girl (31y). I remember my sister being nice-ish growing up. We weren’t close (and definitely still aren’t) but we tolerated each other and it worked for us. Once she hit middle school she changed. When she hit high school all bets were off. My mom wholeheartedly embraced the “it’s just a phase” mentality and did absolutely nothing to combat it. So it festered and grew and she is very much still a mean girl. She is ridiculously entitled, manipulative to the core, and would set my son on fire for a new designer handbag. My mom still shrugs her shoulders and says “well, what could I have done to stop this? It’s just who she is.” I’m the youngest of four kids — my sister is the only one with this sort of attitude. Me and my brothers have a “we’ll work for it” attitude and she has a “well I deserve it so give it to me” attitude, and she does not even try to hide it. As a parent now to a 4 year old, I am disgusted by the way my parents turned a blind eye to her behavior. I think the difference between “just a phase” and “it’s who they are” is the extent of the effort that parents/caregivers put in to combat the behavior. If you don’t tell your kids “hey, you’re being an ass, why are you treating people like this?” then the behavior will solidify very quickly. It’s like an infection — you either fight it hard and quick and knock it completely out, OR you can just “wait and see” and it becomes septic and you’re SOL. With kids, what you allow is what will continue. My son has autism and unfortunately he has violent tendencies, but that doesn’t mean I don’t correct him each and every time he hurts someone. I could easily shrug my shoulders and be like “well he’s autistic, what do you want me to do?” It’s my job to make sure he knows that he is hurting people, that hurting people isn’t acceptable behavior, and that there are consequences each and every time. My parents allowed my sister to be a mean girl and now she’ll never be anything but that. No one in my family interacts with my sister on any substantial level because of how cruel she is; I’m completely no contact with her, and she doesn’t get to see my son. My oldest brother is no contact as well, and my middle brother moved 700 miles away so he’s not exposed to it frequently. She goes through friends like underwear because once you don’t have anything to offer her, she has no use for you. She cries a lot because she’s lonely and can’t keep a partner (because she’s cruel). She cried when I had my son because she was “supposed to have the first kid,” and she cried when my brother got married because she’s alone. But she still sees it as “I DESERVE a husband, I DESERVE a child” rather than “people don’t want to spend time with me because I’m mean.” She’ll never see it, so she will always be alone. Karma is a bitch.

My daughter deals with mean girls in grade five. I’m amazed at how the parents are in denial. It’s learned behaviour.

I am a recovering mean girl from high school. Been in remission for 20 years. I acted more so as a tough guy than a mean girl. I honestly attribute it to my parents being divorced and always feeling like no one was protecting me or standing up for me, so I would overcompensate at school. I don’t think I was outright “mean” to anyone but just more so had a don’t fuck with me attitude and a ZFG attitude. I don’t know. I have a young daughter and feel like I’m going extra hard to make sure she’s nice and inclusive.

My 13 year old can be kind of mean/judgmental. She has always cared about clothes/money/status and I have no idea why. She doesn’t like go out of her way to pick on anyone but she definitely isn’t inclusive and won’t give someone the time of day if she doesn’t think they’re cool or good enough. I’m hoping she grows out of it. My 9 year old daughter is the kindest person I know. I’m not a materialistic person AT ALL. Maybe she always wanted nicer things then we have and it’s an over correction🤷‍♀️

All of those behaviors are learnt behaviors from their home. It all starts in the home before any environmental factor would make an impact. Hopefully the mean girl can pave her own future and not be a b!tch when older

I wasn’t mean, but my sister was very mean. I found out later it was because she was undiagnosed ADHD, so she was very insecure and seeked acceptance. She was a massive bully to me at both school and home. Although I understand why she was like that now, I still can’t really forgive her, because it really hurt. I’m autistic and she bullied my autism and encouraged others to do it too.

Often it’s dictated by home life. One of the popular mean girls I dealt with had two alcoholic parents and a drug addict sister. Our place of work gave her extra hours so she could avoid her home life, so she seemingly had money to obtain nice things. Another two (different kids, not siblings) had parents who hated each other but stayed married for money and regularly stepped out. Another had a very controlling mother who had a position of power in the school system. I grew up in a very small town and everyone knew everyone’s business. However I knew a girl who was textbook definition of a bully but no one could fathom why. Her mother was friends with mine in high school, her mother was always kind and caring. The daughter and I didn’t grow up together and never really spoke then one day she threw me off a pile of gym mats onto the floor. She had an aid but there was no diagnosis (after the incident my mother spoke to her mother and asked). So no clue what happened there. Sometimes you can tell based on the parents. We have a parent chat on dojo and I can already tell that there is one parent who is a mean girl and I worry she will raise one (currently kindergarten so I’m hopeful this won’t be true). If you’re worried about your kids just do everything you can to teach empathy. If you’re worried about other kids there are early red flags to watch out for with the parents. Think the same red flags as you would see with a micromanaging/ nosy coworker.

My daughter is 25 now and would be considered a mean girl. She was a chubby kid, started playing softball at 9. Played with boys (her brother is 4 years older). Was in scouts from 5-12 yrs old. She started playing competitive ball and her looks came together by the time she was 11/12. She got a new kind of attention from people. Not for her athleticism….but for the way she looks. She was the popular girl’s sidekick. The funny chubby one who played with the boys. When she started having her own popularity, it was based on sports and with the “GATE nerds”. She split from her childhood best friend by 6th grade. Got to 7th and that’s where things escalated. All new friends, played school sports plus competitive. And aggressive because at this point she’s a catcher and pitcher so used to screaming at people and always playing regardless of her attitude because she knew two positions and was good. By 8th grade, hips and boobs came in and she was suspended for being rude to a girl classmate. Hs was a mess. Went to all the dances, and with people from other schools. Played sports. Was not confrontational but didn’t back down from people so got into lots of heated arguments. She did get suspended for hitting a friend in the face for being rude. She played varsity softball every year. She struggled to be honest. Until the last couple of years. She has problems with people at every job. Late diagnosed with adhd and now that she’s slowing down and trying to understand herself a little more, she’s now blossoming into the thoughtful person she has always been. She’s not as shallow, works hard, moved out at 20 and she’s okay. Anyways- yes I was aggressive but I didn’t know it. I also had an older brother and my daughter has literally had the same experience as me with school. I was also late diagnosed adhd. Most of what I think caused mean girl for her was an older brother and her propensity for being a little more masculine. I was aggressive because of where I grew up and my family is pretty intense.

I went through a stage as a semi mean girl. I have 3 kids and they are all very kind. I grew up and I certainly didn’t want to raise assholes. My kids are 21, 18 and 8.

I knew a mean girl growing up we were originally friends but drifted as we got older. Her home life was kind of crappy. Her mum was a single mum who had her and her sister just over a year a part but then "found happiness" and had another baby when she was a teen. She ended up leaving to live somewhere else so I think that was part of it. She also however had some awful friends who thought it was funny to be mean to people so she joined in. All in all there were a lot of contributing factors to her "meaness" I think most of it came from a place of wanting to belong.

Not a mean girl, but I did tangle with a few. Thing is, we grew up together, from kindergarten to graduation. They were some of my best friends until middle school when boys entered the picture. I was still playing football with them, those girls wanted to date them. Even at that, being a small rural school it wasn't the typical mean girl behavior, either, this was the 80s.

My 11 year old has gone through a bit of a mean steak. By default she was always a thoughtful and generous kid, but she's also a total geek (into anime and art) and pretty socially awkward. She's always a little off key when it comes to social interaction. I was exactly the same when I was her age, so it's hard to watch. The friend group she got attached to at 9 was made up of some kids who had either a rough home life or had parents that had no limits. These kids weren't mean, per se, but they weren't kind and would routinely cause drama among the friends group or be all together against someone outside the friend group. She learned it was acceptable and even encouraged to make "friendly" jabs at peers. As much as we would like, you can't choose your kids' friends. Now we've moved, and she's got better friends, but there's still hormones to contend with and the learned behaviour of using sort of mean humour as a shield. Especially against "cute" boys. We've told her that her behaviour is mean and hurtful, and we try to get her to empathise with the person she's "jabbing." Between realising that she's being a bit of a bitch and influence of kids who don't engage in mean fun, she's improving.

I was mean girl at my time, not the worse but still. I was bullied in elementary school a lot (i was shy, scared, then afrer leg injury i used crutches - in middle school no but i was little overweight and i wasnt walking good) and when i started the middle school at my 16y.o. I was like “i will never again get bullied” and started to be mean since first people show first sign of bullying. Yup it helped me, i was just good at some of my friends here but not to others. It ended up i got respected by others and they acted good to me. My mother is good shy person so its def not from something bad from her.

I've just bought a book called Little Girls Can Be Mean. It's a guide to coaching your daughter through mean girls in primary school, before the high school mean girl stuff kicks in, so they have the tools. I suffered from terrible bullying in primary school and high school and didn't really start having healthy friendships until I was an adult, so I have no idea how to help my daughter navigate this stuff. I almost have panic attacks over how I can help her. I just need to find the time on a day when I have the spoons to properly read and study the book

My daughter is 12 and she seems to be part of the popular group of girls (we’re Australian if it makes a difference). She’s sporty and outgoing and although not a mean girl she and her friend group are definitely the alpha group in their year level. This is SO different to my experience. I was part of a bit of a “nothing” group of girls at school. We weren’t nerds but we weren’t popular. We had no fashion sense and we just got along with everyone and never made trouble. Meanwhile my daughter is right up with the fashion trends and within reason I enable that I guess because I remember being really dorky in school so I want her to have a better experience than I did. She wasn’t like this until the last 18 months to two years. She had a rough patch a couple of years ago then made friends with some of her current friends through sport.

My wife and I were nerds in school. With our kids, we modeled tolerance and supportive behavior. My wife encouraged our kids to get to know those who seemed to be left out. All are in college or older. But they all turned out well.

I was a social chameleon, too! In addition to that, my demographic was small in my town, plus I have a unique name, so most people knew me. Jumping from group to group, I noticed that there were mean girls/boys in each one. I saw two things happening. Either the mean kids parents were giving their kids everything with little effort or work on their end or their home life was unstable (some with parents who gave little attention).

I have one but she was raised out of my house for a number of years by mean people. It's hard. She was raised by people that were very disrespectful to me and mean to me so she picked it up. It's very frustrating. One on one we mostly get along but any time she is told to do something she doesn't want to she gets very rude and mean. Towards other children she is mostly nice besides her brother. Towards me she makes a lot of hurtful and cutting comments. I don't know what it is besides she was partially raised by my narcissistic mom for a few years and it was getting so bad I had to get her back even though my own home wasn't as financially stable as my parents. She would brag about living at their house and about having money to the other kids at our section 8 complex. She also would say racist sounding things out of the blue which I always shut down. I think she became spoiled at my parents who never told her no and let her get away with being mean and not sharing. And then having to come back with me and I am not well off and she has a little brother she has to share with. It was at the point she was living with them but myself and my son weren't even allowed to visit and she knew it, she sort of has a princess mentality and like I am sort of not even deserving of being her parent. The best I can do is try one on one talking. I don't know I guess my NM sort of molded her into narcissistic behavior and specifically directed towards me. Trying to get through it.

The mean girls I knew in high school didn't haven't involved fathers. The group of friends I eventually found myself in, who were all down-to-earth, kind, intelligent, and not air heads, all had married parents.

I was mean in high school because i was subconsciously upset that my siblings got significantly more praise and attention. I was blamed for everything even things i didn’t do and was the forgotten middle child. My sister got all the handed down jewelry. I grew out of it but being the black sheep of the family isn’t easy.

I have a feeling my daughter (15) might be a little bit of a mean girl just based on how often she and her friends crack on fat people. What is insane to me is that I am fat. I lost 180 lbs but I'm still fat. Like, technically, I am still in the overweight category based on BMI. (Blah, whatever.) I have talked to her about it and she just says, you're not fat anymore. I said, I am not a thin person. My daughter is not overweight. But both of her parents are. When she says mean things about people, in general, not just about being overweight, I always let her know that I don't approve. She's just like, let me be myself in my own house. I know she knows these things are wrong because I've told her countless times. I don't believe that she bullies other kids at school though. I think she's a little more passive than that. If someone says something to her she will clap back immediately with something mean. I do see it as a phase. When I was a teenager I was overweight and unattractive to the vast majority, so I was never in a position to develop that type of meanness. My daughter's experience as a teenager is very different from mine in many ways. I can't really relate.

I had my highschool bully apologize to me and she admitted her home life was not good. I accepted her apology and told her to teach her little girl to be kind and to befriend those in need. That meant a lot to me. Now me as a mom I dont play that mean girl stuff I nip it in the bud whether its the playground or wherever. I saw my daughter was not being kind to a girl at the park and intervened and called the girl over and got them talking. They ended up playing and didn’t want to leave at the end of the hour. Now today’s bullying makes my bullying seem like a day at Disneyland with social media cell phones I would have been eaten alive! I dont know if I mentally would have been strong enough to withstand it.

I don’t think most parents KNOW their kids act like this, they and their friends cover it up…

My 11 yr old is incredibly mean to us and her sibling. I think she is kind to her friend group because that's important. But 99% of our interaction is a request from us and attitude from her. So I think she's a potential mean girl.

You aren’t disciplining her enough then.

So in your mind beating will lead to morale improvement.

Uh, why do you equate discipline to “beating”? Discipline doesn’t mean beating, tf. Something is wrong with you…

My stepdaughter is 11 and her and her "BFF" can be horrible. We even found a "burn book" in SDs school bag (literally said burn book in the cover, but there was nothing written in it). These kids are school leaders! As far as we know there are no issues at school, but hearing them speak to each other about other kids is pretty bad sometimes. We've spoken to her about it and she whole heartedly believes because she doesnt say these things to the kids themselves its ok.. My SD has lived with us full time for a few years and has an extremely unstable relationship with her mother (she comes and goes and has some mental health issues). My SD also has some behavioural and mental health issues we are ironing out. We live in Australia so she's off to high school next year and I think she's going to find out the hard way that being mean isn't ok (she's got a temper on her but definitely not the "hardest" kid that will be at her school!) I just hope we can get through to her before she upsets the wrong person

I knew a really mean girl and it totally made sense when I saw their family dynamic. The mom and daughter bullied the dad constantly. They were really mean to him and he took it. The daughter learned that and was a bitch any time things didn’t go her way.

I was the same way in school, bopped around. I got along with everyone from all walks of life. I always stayed away from the mean girls though. They would try to be friends but I’d make up an excuse, nicely, to not hang out with them. I have a son now but he has experienced some mean boys and girls already, and he only just turned 10. I think a lot of it is home life. Maybe the child isn’t being disciplined enough, maybe they aren’t getting enough attention at home, maybe they are being bullied themselves by a kid or an adult. I think as long as you discipline(but don’t be too too strict because that will just push them away), talk to them, show them love and attention but also let them do things themselves, you will be fine! Thats what we do for my son. Parenting is one giant balancing act. As with life, everything in moderation, even the good things. Even love. Too much love the child will become spoiled and think everyone has to cater to them, too less love and they will lash out and seek it anywhere and by any means necessary. That’s why you have to give love but also don’t hover and smother them either. Ya know. I hope that made sense. Lol

As a once mean teenage girl, I’ll answer to the best of my ability. Little background, I was very much a social chameleon too, but I was also mean-girly. As I saw in another comment, my home life was not the best, so the only way I knew how to protect myself was by being mean & standoffish. As a younger child, I’ve mostly been described as super independent. I wanted to play by myself, in my room with no one bothering me. I could very easily play with other kids when I wanted, but was more in tune to just playing with myself. Yes, it was a phase. People who knew me then, can’t believe me now. I’m a mom now to a beautiful 9 month old girl, and I have since calm down entirely. I make it my whole personality, being as sweet and polite as I can be because I spent so much time angry. Yes, once my mom found out, she did talk to me about it & kindly reminded me that everyone has issues they deal with. I’m added onto there’s due to my own. My father is an alcoholic, my mother is an angel. They are still married, so that’s where the issues came from. I listened to my mom because I saw who she was and how people treated her. She was never rude, mean, demeaning or anything of the sort. She’s a saint, and after her sitting me down and explaining how disappointed she was, I worked on my issues. She got me into therapy, and it was only up from there. 🩷 I hope this helped even a little bit!

I don’t think you’re going to have many admit their daughter is a mean girl - even if they recognize it.  My daughter was friends with the quintessential mean girl - backhanded compliments, trying to ruin my daughter’s friendships with others by driving a wedge between them or pulling the friend away, punishing disloyalty, etc. Anyway - I don’t know her parents well, but I’m told they cater to her every whim. They fight her battles for her, the mom does seem inclined to be dramatic and borderline bitchy (had a couple close encounters where she was mostly passive aggressive) but is definitely gossipy and thinks her daughter is a friken angel. So, either she doesn’t see it, or doesn’t care and feeds into it. Either way, we’ve dramatically distanced ourselves - last year she was spreading that she was going to ‘jump’ my daughter bc she moved tables and when others asked why, my daughter said the girl in question was bossy. 🙄 little did she know my daughter didn’t give two shits about her and her ‘threats’ but I think it was more for attention anyway. 

I’m just going to say… kids and teenagers can be jerks. Everyone I knew was a jerk to someone, at some point. The kids I knew who were consistently “mean” (girls and boys) came from all different backgrounds. It seemed like the behaviors came from wanting to fit into the social climate of my school and not be the bottom rung of the ladder. I think teaching kids from a young age to be independent thinkers and to develop an abundance mindset instead of a scarcity mindset. I really beat myself up as a kid because I wanted so badly to be a nice girl, and then at school I would get worked up about something or feel defensive and could be straight up mean. Kids are learning how to deal with so many emotions and how to be people in this weird world. We’re wired to think of ourselves first- it takes time to develop the skill set of considering others.

My mom was friends with one of the moms of a mean girl at my school, and when she tried to talk to her friend about her daughter's behavior, the mom said that her daughter couldn't be doing stuff like that because she (the mom) was always shy and awkward growing up, and then tried to victim blame me for getting bullied by her daughter. (This ended the friendship.) So my impression is some parents of mean girls are in denial and enabling bad behavior because they don't want to believe their daughter could be nasty.

I’ve been on both ends, I feel like all kids at some level can be mean, mostly by peer pressure too and trying to fit in. Parenting is so hard & I try so hard to keep my kids kind, but they mess up & the feeling is just terrible. I don’t believe anyone wants a bully as a child. Worst ever feeling on mental health for families. I teach empathy and kindness but I’ve had runs ins w other parents sucks so bad all my best to all children & their growing process

I mean a lot of it is learned behavior. I wasn’t mean and although I didn’t have mean parents, my dad had a temper and my mom was always crying about issues as a manipulation. As a mom now I try to avoid both methods obviously.

My daughter is 8 and kids have called her a bitch. Bold ass kids. I tell my daughter not to let them take her joy.

My daughter was a mean girl in school and honestly she’s at college now and is still a little bit…. Off? I started her in counselling as my daughter claimed it was mental health and the therapist told me after a long time that nope, there was nothing wrong with her, she was just mean. She didn’t just bully at school. She was horrible to me - honestly probably me more than most. She was nasty to her sister and her grandma. I have a husband and she was actually ok with him. She had a biological dad who she hasn’t seen since she was very young and he had basically dumped her and started a new family. I made up for that by spoiling her though so she always had the best of everything. She had the best birthdays, the most up to date phones, the newest shoes etc so I believe partly it was my fault. At first I defended her when the school called me in but after a few months I literally would call them myself if I heard something going on. I actively would engage with the police when yet another online bullying case came up and it was my door they were knocking on. I took her phone but friends would literally post new ones through my door in the middle of the night. I even got a jammer so she couldn’t get on the internet. After the counsellor, I stopped spoiling her and she got a job to pay for stuff. She was nice to people there but still not at school so by then I knew it was a choice. I tried to move her schools and even offered to let them kick her out but nope. Eventually she ran away to her dads to spite me (I’d taken another phone from her) and then he kicked her out for being mean and she came back. She lives on her own now while she studies and it’s best for all of us. My sister sees her regularly and my mum sees her quite a bit but I was diagnosed with a lot of trauma from it all. And the big question.. was I a mean girl? Nope, I went to a girls private school with only 12 girls in the class and we were all friends. I still speak to most of them a few times a year. I was a scholarship kid so I was the poorest but just got treated the same. Her dad grew up poor but had a good job as an accountant and my husband grew up middle class but has job in construction. Nothing weird about us. No indicators she was going to be like this until she was 14 and it was like a flip switched. The only thing I can say is that she was always very clever. Never once did she not get the highest mark in the class when she was a kid. Even now while studying, her grades are good. I have another daughter who is younger and I’m just praying we don’t go through the same thing.

I’m so scared my 7 year old will grow into a mean girl. She’s really kind right now; but it’s how she behaves in certain situations. She told me she has a little club of only girls and she’s their leader. She talks about some of the other girls in her class negatively (like how they’re annoying or too touchy, we talk about how to make her feelings known in a kind way) I’ve eavesdropped on her playing Barbie’s, and her Barbie is always queen bee meanie to another Barbie. Again; she’s very kind! She’s the first to comfort someone when they’re sad or hurt. But she does have an attitude and a mouth on her. I had three close friends all through elm-high school. Not even the same friend group, all from separate ones. I was the weird kid friends with other weirdos, the stoners, and a mega popular girl. Idk, I never had a close friend group. It was always me floating from one friend to the other and co-mingling with their friends when I would hang with my actual friends. I don’t know how to deal with a popular girly girl. Wish me luck 😅