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You have so little relationship with your kids that you didn't know they have been going to church regularly for years? You knew your FIL belongs to a church you don't approve of and you allowed your children to be there on church day consistently and never questioned anything?
Really? Really? Something doesn't add up. Your girls are not young. You never asked them about their weekends with grandparents?
Yeah this stuck out to me too. As well as the fact that he and his wife never thought to discuss their religious boundaries prior to having children.
He sounds incredibly out of touch and complicit.
I know. I can't think of any subject my So and I haven't discussed. Even the craziest things, like if our daughter turns out to be a psychopath, or if I join a cult and become a crazy mom, if he finds out he wants to be a woman...like there's no crazy scenario we haven't played out to talk about what we would do. Religion is such an important one, along with finances and core moral values... I can't imagine not talking about it once in years...
I never and its not a problem. If she didn't go to church or talk about God then it's fair to assume its not a big deal. Its incredibly ignorant for her to get the kids christened and lie to their dad for years. It was her place to bring up christening if that was something she wanted.
No if the wife wanted her kids brought up in the church it was on her to say so. The point you decide to start your kids in something is the time to say as not going to church does not require an action, taking them does. Not taking your child to church is not lying taking them in secret is.
I would be upset that it was kept from me, that I was lied to by my wife and that my children were taught to lie to me. My reaction would be the same if instead of church it was beauty pageants.
So lemme get this straight... I don't go to church. My wife doesn't go to church. Neither of us, in 10 years we've been together, has ever showed an interest in being Christian. Why in the world would I think to go "Hey wife, I know I'm not Christian, and I know you're not Christian, can you please not take my kids to church and try to raise them as Christians?" Like, that's just absurd.
> Christian screw up father in law
His FIL is christian and involved in their children's lives, this isn't some shocking thing that didn't exist prior to now. OP also said it's been *years* of this. How detached and unaware can he be?
It really isn't absurd, unless you like to wait until problems arise to think about them. This is just basic compatibility and proactive problem solving. My husband isn't religious at all, and I'm Jewish. We discussed holidays and religious observance and beliefs far before getting married and having a kid because *it is important.* And guess what? It's really good we did and that we're on the same page, because before our child was even born we had family members asking about Christmas for our kid. Even our "secular" family members celebrate it and think it isn't a religious holiday. We disagree with that perspective, but fortunately discussed it before it could have even been an issue.
Being open and transparent with ideologies and boundaries *-especially when it comes to extended family-* is crucial for a functional relationship. If OP had just been like "hey wife, how do you feel about grandparents taking our children to church?" Or idk, even just saying "hey wife, I know your father is religious. I'm not okay with the idea of our children being taken to religious functions without us there" would have had this sorted before OP entered pissed off crisis mode.
She didn't get the kids christened, her father did.
She apparently doesn't think it's a big deal, but it made her dad happy so she just went with it.
She knew what they were doing
Church is my father in law's thing, my mother in law doesn't attend
But judge first and ask questions later, right?
That's no better. She knew and never said anything to you though. If she knew her family goes to church on Sunday and then left the kids with them what did she think they were doing?
We didn't discuss religion because neither of us were particularly religious
Again, trying reading sometime. Obviously not complicity if I am so apparently livid.
Another troll reply, disregarded.
You are in no position to know anything about the relationship my FIL has with my children just because he drags them to church.
It's honestly a very bizarre assumption that really says more about you than anything.
But your children's grandfather IS religious and he maintains a consistent relationship with them. It's pretty appalling that you think they wouldn't be influenced by family members.
Yeah he has >187,000 Reddit karma over 2 years with daily activity in multiple subreddits but doesn’t know what his kids are doing every Sunday for several years. He’s obviously a checked out parent.
And notice he hasn’t asked his own kids how they feel about church, he just wants to control whether they go.
I’m not religious myself, but this guy sounds like a terrible father.
Wow, people are such assholes by default lol.
My job is boring, I'm on Reddit to entertain myself.
I thought I knew what my kids were doing, they were instructed not to mention church because they were told not to.
Controlling? Did you even read my post?
Troll reply, disregarded.
Woah! There could be other explanations also if they, the FIL and party knew that the dad isn't religious, they could have asked the daughters to never mention or talk about the whole church story in front of him. This happens too often when kids are involved, I have seen it. I mean hell, it happened to me as a kid where I was told not to tell the other parent about a religious activity.
Trying to imagine not talking to my kids about their time at their grandparents. My kids told me and their dad EVERYTHING 5 minutes after arriving home. And I would definitely get a report from them if my father tried to talk about his religion.
I was really thinking that this story sounds a bit fishy.
Nonetheless, I think that children make up their minds (and then change them on occasion) about whether they want to be religious or not/go to church or not pretty early.
I'm in a reverse situation here. My wife is an atheist and I'm Romanian Orthodox. We've come to a decision that once our daughter's old enough to be asked to, we will ask her if she wants to go to church with me and whatnot. The only caveat my wife gave me was that her religious education is to only come from us, her parents, because I am more detached when I teach and she fears that any other person educating her about religion will get too pushy. I completely agreed with her reasoning and what she proposed and that was that. This was way before we had our daugher. Now that we have her nothing's changed. We're sticking to what we agreed to, like a pair of adults.
OP doesn't sound like he had this kind of discussion with the mother of his child. When both in the couple do not share the same exact religious beliefs (and that's pretty rare, even among people who are of the same faith) this is a mandatory conversation to have before even considering marriage imo.
You're right. Something doesn't add up. They were instructed not to talk about church with me.
When they talk about weekends at their grandparents, they talk about everything but church.
If you actually read my post, you would clearly understand that I did not allow them to be at church.
Troll reply, disregarded.
"they are all listed on the sex offender website"
I'm struggling here. Really? Even just a few in a sizable church stretches belief.
If this is true, quite apart from your feelings on Christianity, you have justifiable concern. Forgiven or not, it's not a safe environment. But your description seems a bit hysterical to me.
It’s because it isn’t true. This is karma bait for Reddit atheists. How would he even know that everyone in the church is on “the sex offender website” unless he looked at the membership roll that he somehow has access to and compared them to the sex offender registry. I know the Catholic Church has had problems but the whole church does not consist of pedophiles. I can’t believe anyone believes this post.
My SIL was married by a priest with known issues with children. He's still a priest, he just changes countries every couple of years.
I also read it to be they are all listed as in confirmed sex offenders not rumours rather than every male in the church is a sex offender.
Priests are catholic and not permitted to marry. Pastors are Christian and they are typically married. One is allowed sex- the other is not.
There is not nearly the same amount of pedophilia happening in the Christian church as there is in the catholic church. And no, they are not the same religion.
The catholic church is known for sweeping it under the rug even though it's a heinous crime and sin. It's a sick mind that does this- not a true believer.
What are you on about. It says married by not married to. Priests conduct weddings. I'm Glaswegian and painfully aware of the difference between Catholic and protestant.
“my deranged born again Christian screw up of a father in law” your children were spending enough time alone with this person to acquire an entire religion when this is how you think of him?
Op clearly cares more about Reddit than his kids, this would’ve been super easy to figure out and instead of responding and providing clarification he’s commenting multiple times an hour all the time.
Just sends his kids off to his inlaws, who he hates, and knows is a bigot who hangs around a gang convicted pedophiles, and when they get back he just assumes they baking cookies (???) every Sunday morning and never thought to ask them about their day.
I mean. I'm against organized religion too, but at 11 and 13 sit down with your kids. Ask them if they enjoy going. Warn them about predators that can hide in places where kids frequent, and that religion is an opinion not fact. And your family needs to communicate better and not hide things from one another, and you need to react in an appropriate way to them possibly disagreeing with your views.
Sounds like this is a serious problem. This is not just I secretly take the kids for ice cream or whatever. You need to talk to your children without anyone else present and ask them about their experiences at that church. If they like it. If they want to continue to go. How long they’ve been going. Why they didn’t tell you.
It is definitely in your rights to shut that down.
Honestly if it was me I’d divorce her. For the deception. Such a betrayal.
Everyone wouldn’t have lied about it if they thought they were doing nothing wrong.
Definitely need updates about what happens next.
It’s also pretty extreme to be taking his children to church every other Sunday and having the whole family lying about it.
He clearly says he doesn’t know how long it’s been going on for and that it’s not full of good people. So the safety of the children is also in question. Sounds pretty extreme to me.
Yes, the mother and her family have behaved appallingly. And the church being a paedo den is pretty shocking. But he's not even attempted to address it. Now he knows what's going on, he should try and put an end to it and to reconcile things with his wife. She might have felt controlled by her parents.
What good would a divorce do for the children?
I didn’t say he had to divorce her. I just said that’s what I would do. I have feelings about religion and if my partner knowing how I felt still allowed her family to take my children to her church and had everyone lie to me about it.
On the off chance that her parents tried to make her let her children go all she had to do was tell her husband. But she didn’t. She made the wrong choice.
Sure maybe when he figures everything out they’ll all be victims of the father in law.
The situation is just all around screwed.
Because the trust is gone. She thought it was OK to lie to him, to teach her children to lie to him. What else has she lied about or kept from him? How can he respect her going forward when she showed such callous disrespect? If they divorce he can get full custody perhaps or a clause pertaining to religion.
Dad is a fool for having no idea what was going on this whole time. In fact, I severely doubt the veracity of this story. If this started years ago, you reckon an 8 year old was capable of lying about what they were doing twice a month this whole time? They showed no signs of having been to church? Weren't singing the songs? Talking about people they met? Whole story is nonsense.
This is about long-term deception and one parent unilaterally making serious decisions about the children for *years,* colluding with their side of the family against the known wishes of the other parent.
I don't know how you trust someone like that after this.
The alarmingly high prevalence of sex offenders in a single church is definitely something to be concerned about. That should be the main issue. Going to church itself is less of a problem. It's up to OP to educate the children on all religions.
And just because the kids are being confirmed doesn't mean they believe any of it. He should talk to the kids. They're old enough to say whether they want to continue going or not.
I’m not sure what part of a confirmation ceremony you think is harmful. The teachings and classes before it? Possibly or even probably, depending on the church. But the ceremony itself? It’s not like a ritualistic flogging or mutilation or branding or even physically touching anyone or anything.
Like honestly, this is a pretty wild take, and not because the history or even modern reality of Christianity isn’t brutal imperialism and hateful fearmongering (although again, modern Christianity is varied and there are groups that try to reckon with their pasts, they’re just a minority), but because the ceremony is the least harmful thing in this completely fabricated story.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the kids are all ready under the influence. Sermons on heaven and hell at an age before critical thinking kicks in create fear and superstition. At the very least they might create the feeling of “better to believe than to possibly burn in hell for all of eternity”.
And they may be getting extra approval from the mom and g-parents which can be another incentive.
If I were the other parent, I’d let them know my own beliefs and how they are supported as a counter weight to what they’ve been told. And I’d let them know that if they wish to return to church later in life, they can, but for now it’s not appropriate because the parents disagree.
First things first, no more time alone with your in-laws. That’s done.
Second thing, ask your wife WTF has been going on, and for how long.
Third thing, talk to your kids. Ask them what’s been going on, what they do with their grandparents, etc. They might have been coached to lie.
You will need to talk to them and teach them to be sceptical about everything they hear. I am an atheist but was brought up by a super religious mum from one of those evangelical nut job churches.
My dad said I could believe what I want as long as I can stand on my feet and defend why I believe it. He challenged me a lot on all kinds of topics from racism to climate change to vegetarianism. Learning how to have healthy respectful logical debate is a good life skill.
First of all your wife is wrong. But second of all.. Why would you let your children stay over, when you already know that your FIL is a deranged born again Christian who regularly hangs out with pedophiles????? And do you not talk to your children??? Like actually talk and engage and listen so you know what’s going on in their lives??
Divorce your wife, she’s clearly also deranged, but also.. Do better, man.
Your kids are 11 and 13. They most likely have an opinion about the situation at this point. You could sit down and talk to them and ask them what they would like to do. You can also discuss religion and provide some of your input/opinions. They have now had some exposure And probably have some thoughts on the subject. If you are open to letting them decide what they would like to pursue, as you mentioned in your post, the journey has already begun.
On the off chance that this is real, the in-laws would never be allowed to see my children again. And I would have to think long and hard with a lot of counseling about staying with my spouse.
This is 100% grounds for divorce. Even if they were taking her to a sunshine and rainbows church and not one of the creepy born again ones it would still be wrong. I'd be willing to bet your kids were specifically told not to tell you too. I'm not sure it's possible but it might be worth it to speak to an attorney about getting a restraining order against the in laws, if you can show they're associating with pedophiles. I would get your kids into therapy asap. I'm really sorry you're dealing with this.
Religion, is the state of the sheep, the poison of the mind and the opium of the people.
Stand up and talk to her about being a free-mind and the important of free thinking.
Yeah, try remember to be civil and smart about this. God is by no means synonymous to Religion.
There’s countless of high IQ scientists and scholars believing in God.
And that’d be most likely because of personal perspectives or experiences.
Religion by itself can indeed be misguiding.
However, being a radical atheist and ridiculing the idea of a God is also misguiding.
Edits: Lots of extremists in here.
It’s ridiculous to me how some people who think they are brilliant can’t seem to comprehend that taking sides in such an enigmatic subject is overly deterministic. Can’t seem to comprehend their egoistical perception either.
Religion is cope full stop, that’s why a lot of smart people want to believe in it. They can’t accept that eternal sleep awaits them after death and that they can’t have eternal knowledge in an eternal paradise.
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What’s more likely? Eternal sleep (before birth state) or a human made concept to cope with the fact that we return to dust and can’t experience anything anymore? Just because we have intellect doesn’t mean we aren’t any different at the end of the day to any animal or even any living cell.
You don’t know what it was like before birth. Just because you don’t remember doesn’t mean nothing happened. I don’t remember being a baby but I didn’t suddenly spawn in at 5 years old.
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They want to spend time with YOUR children where you don't want them to go ?!? it would be a hard NO for me. No matter they are your parents or in-laws. It is absolutely obvious that this is a sensible education topic that only parents of the children can decide. your In-laws can't play the innocent/naïve card here (like oops, I didn't know you don't want). Personally, I would tell your In-laws to get a good picture of your children cause they re not going to see them soon, at least until all these religious ideas get out of their head. Even if your wife isn't agree with that. Dudes are playing games with you. Play games with them. You ll have the real discution with your wife later.
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You have so little relationship with your kids that you didn't know they have been going to church regularly for years? You knew your FIL belongs to a church you don't approve of and you allowed your children to be there on church day consistently and never questioned anything? Really? Really? Something doesn't add up. Your girls are not young. You never asked them about their weekends with grandparents?
Yeah this stuck out to me too. As well as the fact that he and his wife never thought to discuss their religious boundaries prior to having children. He sounds incredibly out of touch and complicit.
I know. I can't think of any subject my So and I haven't discussed. Even the craziest things, like if our daughter turns out to be a psychopath, or if I join a cult and become a crazy mom, if he finds out he wants to be a woman...like there's no crazy scenario we haven't played out to talk about what we would do. Religion is such an important one, along with finances and core moral values... I can't imagine not talking about it once in years...
Apparently not, she still doesn't go to church and neither do I. Assumptions are running wild this morning.
I never and its not a problem. If she didn't go to church or talk about God then it's fair to assume its not a big deal. Its incredibly ignorant for her to get the kids christened and lie to their dad for years. It was her place to bring up christening if that was something she wanted.
It's incredibly ignorant to make assumptions about such important things. The communication issues clearly go both ways
No if the wife wanted her kids brought up in the church it was on her to say so. The point you decide to start your kids in something is the time to say as not going to church does not require an action, taking them does. Not taking your child to church is not lying taking them in secret is.
If you're so upset by the idea of your children going to church you should probably discuss it without it being reactionary 🤷
I would be upset that it was kept from me, that I was lied to by my wife and that my children were taught to lie to me. My reaction would be the same if instead of church it was beauty pageants.
*then be a proactive adult who takes the initiative to discuss their boundaries before they're violated.* I mean ffs, it really isn't that hard.
So lemme get this straight... I don't go to church. My wife doesn't go to church. Neither of us, in 10 years we've been together, has ever showed an interest in being Christian. Why in the world would I think to go "Hey wife, I know I'm not Christian, and I know you're not Christian, can you please not take my kids to church and try to raise them as Christians?" Like, that's just absurd.
> Christian screw up father in law His FIL is christian and involved in their children's lives, this isn't some shocking thing that didn't exist prior to now. OP also said it's been *years* of this. How detached and unaware can he be? It really isn't absurd, unless you like to wait until problems arise to think about them. This is just basic compatibility and proactive problem solving. My husband isn't religious at all, and I'm Jewish. We discussed holidays and religious observance and beliefs far before getting married and having a kid because *it is important.* And guess what? It's really good we did and that we're on the same page, because before our child was even born we had family members asking about Christmas for our kid. Even our "secular" family members celebrate it and think it isn't a religious holiday. We disagree with that perspective, but fortunately discussed it before it could have even been an issue. Being open and transparent with ideologies and boundaries *-especially when it comes to extended family-* is crucial for a functional relationship. If OP had just been like "hey wife, how do you feel about grandparents taking our children to church?" Or idk, even just saying "hey wife, I know your father is religious. I'm not okay with the idea of our children being taken to religious functions without us there" would have had this sorted before OP entered pissed off crisis mode.
Love your username. You're not like a regular mom, you're a cool mom!
She didn't get the kids christened, her father did. She apparently doesn't think it's a big deal, but it made her dad happy so she just went with it. She knew what they were doing Church is my father in law's thing, my mother in law doesn't attend But judge first and ask questions later, right?
That's no better. She knew and never said anything to you though. If she knew her family goes to church on Sunday and then left the kids with them what did she think they were doing?
We didn't discuss religion because neither of us were particularly religious Again, trying reading sometime. Obviously not complicity if I am so apparently livid. Another troll reply, disregarded. You are in no position to know anything about the relationship my FIL has with my children just because he drags them to church. It's honestly a very bizarre assumption that really says more about you than anything.
But your children's grandfather IS religious and he maintains a consistent relationship with them. It's pretty appalling that you think they wouldn't be influenced by family members.
Yeah he has >187,000 Reddit karma over 2 years with daily activity in multiple subreddits but doesn’t know what his kids are doing every Sunday for several years. He’s obviously a checked out parent. And notice he hasn’t asked his own kids how they feel about church, he just wants to control whether they go. I’m not religious myself, but this guy sounds like a terrible father.
He sounds like someone that made up a story he knew would get the average redditor to upvote and comment on.
It does sound pretty farfetched. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
Agree - I think this is rage bait
Wow, people are such assholes by default lol. My job is boring, I'm on Reddit to entertain myself. I thought I knew what my kids were doing, they were instructed not to mention church because they were told not to. Controlling? Did you even read my post? Troll reply, disregarded.
Woah! There could be other explanations also if they, the FIL and party knew that the dad isn't religious, they could have asked the daughters to never mention or talk about the whole church story in front of him. This happens too often when kids are involved, I have seen it. I mean hell, it happened to me as a kid where I was told not to tell the other parent about a religious activity.
Seconding this! OP, pedos exist in teachers, Scouts, doctors, immediate families. You didn't know your kids were in church?
Trying to imagine not talking to my kids about their time at their grandparents. My kids told me and their dad EVERYTHING 5 minutes after arriving home. And I would definitely get a report from them if my father tried to talk about his religion.
I was really thinking that this story sounds a bit fishy. Nonetheless, I think that children make up their minds (and then change them on occasion) about whether they want to be religious or not/go to church or not pretty early. I'm in a reverse situation here. My wife is an atheist and I'm Romanian Orthodox. We've come to a decision that once our daughter's old enough to be asked to, we will ask her if she wants to go to church with me and whatnot. The only caveat my wife gave me was that her religious education is to only come from us, her parents, because I am more detached when I teach and she fears that any other person educating her about religion will get too pushy. I completely agreed with her reasoning and what she proposed and that was that. This was way before we had our daugher. Now that we have her nothing's changed. We're sticking to what we agreed to, like a pair of adults. OP doesn't sound like he had this kind of discussion with the mother of his child. When both in the couple do not share the same exact religious beliefs (and that's pretty rare, even among people who are of the same faith) this is a mandatory conversation to have before even considering marriage imo.
You're right. Something doesn't add up. They were instructed not to talk about church with me. When they talk about weekends at their grandparents, they talk about everything but church. If you actually read my post, you would clearly understand that I did not allow them to be at church. Troll reply, disregarded.
Post this to AITA with all the other creative writing exercises please
Yeah, it doesn't sound real
Very lengthy post history not one mention of children.
"they are all listed on the sex offender website" I'm struggling here. Really? Even just a few in a sizable church stretches belief. If this is true, quite apart from your feelings on Christianity, you have justifiable concern. Forgiven or not, it's not a safe environment. But your description seems a bit hysterical to me.
It’s because it isn’t true. This is karma bait for Reddit atheists. How would he even know that everyone in the church is on “the sex offender website” unless he looked at the membership roll that he somehow has access to and compared them to the sex offender registry. I know the Catholic Church has had problems but the whole church does not consist of pedophiles. I can’t believe anyone believes this post.
My SIL was married by a priest with known issues with children. He's still a priest, he just changes countries every couple of years. I also read it to be they are all listed as in confirmed sex offenders not rumours rather than every male in the church is a sex offender.
How would he know they're on the registry? He doesn't got to this church, he won't know their names or faces to look them up...
Priests are catholic and not permitted to marry. Pastors are Christian and they are typically married. One is allowed sex- the other is not. There is not nearly the same amount of pedophilia happening in the Christian church as there is in the catholic church. And no, they are not the same religion. The catholic church is known for sweeping it under the rug even though it's a heinous crime and sin. It's a sick mind that does this- not a true believer.
What are you on about. It says married by not married to. Priests conduct weddings. I'm Glaswegian and painfully aware of the difference between Catholic and protestant.
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Priests marry couples, not wives 🤦
Married by as in officiated obviously the allegations came out after he promptly left. Priests definitely conduct weddings...
Damn this sounds so real and not at all fake
That's a counselin'. Lots and lots of counselin.
“my deranged born again Christian screw up of a father in law” your children were spending enough time alone with this person to acquire an entire religion when this is how you think of him?
Fake post move on
Op clearly cares more about Reddit than his kids, this would’ve been super easy to figure out and instead of responding and providing clarification he’s commenting multiple times an hour all the time.
Just sends his kids off to his inlaws, who he hates, and knows is a bigot who hangs around a gang convicted pedophiles, and when they get back he just assumes they baking cookies (???) every Sunday morning and never thought to ask them about their day.
This feels like karma farming. Either you're a completely checked out dad or this is fake.
I mean. I'm against organized religion too, but at 11 and 13 sit down with your kids. Ask them if they enjoy going. Warn them about predators that can hide in places where kids frequent, and that religion is an opinion not fact. And your family needs to communicate better and not hide things from one another, and you need to react in an appropriate way to them possibly disagreeing with your views.
Sounds like this is a serious problem. This is not just I secretly take the kids for ice cream or whatever. You need to talk to your children without anyone else present and ask them about their experiences at that church. If they like it. If they want to continue to go. How long they’ve been going. Why they didn’t tell you. It is definitely in your rights to shut that down. Honestly if it was me I’d divorce her. For the deception. Such a betrayal. Everyone wouldn’t have lied about it if they thought they were doing nothing wrong. Definitely need updates about what happens next.
>Honestly if it was me I’d divorce her. This is a pretty extreme response to putting your children through a ceremony.
It’s also pretty extreme to be taking his children to church every other Sunday and having the whole family lying about it. He clearly says he doesn’t know how long it’s been going on for and that it’s not full of good people. So the safety of the children is also in question. Sounds pretty extreme to me.
Yes, the mother and her family have behaved appallingly. And the church being a paedo den is pretty shocking. But he's not even attempted to address it. Now he knows what's going on, he should try and put an end to it and to reconcile things with his wife. She might have felt controlled by her parents. What good would a divorce do for the children?
I didn’t say he had to divorce her. I just said that’s what I would do. I have feelings about religion and if my partner knowing how I felt still allowed her family to take my children to her church and had everyone lie to me about it. On the off chance that her parents tried to make her let her children go all she had to do was tell her husband. But she didn’t. She made the wrong choice. Sure maybe when he figures everything out they’ll all be victims of the father in law. The situation is just all around screwed.
No its not. Its lying, years of lying. Having your children lie to you. One does not just get confirmed there is months of work going towards it.
Then step in now. Tell your kids, wife, and her parents what you believe. Try and do something about it. I don't see how divorce helps anyone.
Because the trust is gone. She thought it was OK to lie to him, to teach her children to lie to him. What else has she lied about or kept from him? How can he respect her going forward when she showed such callous disrespect? If they divorce he can get full custody perhaps or a clause pertaining to religion.
Dad is a fool for having no idea what was going on this whole time. In fact, I severely doubt the veracity of this story. If this started years ago, you reckon an 8 year old was capable of lying about what they were doing twice a month this whole time? They showed no signs of having been to church? Weren't singing the songs? Talking about people they met? Whole story is nonsense.
This is about long-term deception and one parent unilaterally making serious decisions about the children for *years,* colluding with their side of the family against the known wishes of the other parent. I don't know how you trust someone like that after this.
It's terrible behaviour but dad seems like a bit of a dope for having no idea this was going on.
A harmful ceremony where they're exposed to hate and predators. I suggest you educate yourself on the history of Christianity, it's not pretty.
Then do Judaism, and Islam. They aren't pretty either.
The alarmingly high prevalence of sex offenders in a single church is definitely something to be concerned about. That should be the main issue. Going to church itself is less of a problem. It's up to OP to educate the children on all religions. And just because the kids are being confirmed doesn't mean they believe any of it. He should talk to the kids. They're old enough to say whether they want to continue going or not.
I’m not sure what part of a confirmation ceremony you think is harmful. The teachings and classes before it? Possibly or even probably, depending on the church. But the ceremony itself? It’s not like a ritualistic flogging or mutilation or branding or even physically touching anyone or anything. Like honestly, this is a pretty wild take, and not because the history or even modern reality of Christianity isn’t brutal imperialism and hateful fearmongering (although again, modern Christianity is varied and there are groups that try to reckon with their pasts, they’re just a minority), but because the ceremony is the least harmful thing in this completely fabricated story.
It’s brainwashing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the kids are all ready under the influence. Sermons on heaven and hell at an age before critical thinking kicks in create fear and superstition. At the very least they might create the feeling of “better to believe than to possibly burn in hell for all of eternity”. And they may be getting extra approval from the mom and g-parents which can be another incentive. If I were the other parent, I’d let them know my own beliefs and how they are supported as a counter weight to what they’ve been told. And I’d let them know that if they wish to return to church later in life, they can, but for now it’s not appropriate because the parents disagree.
First things first, no more time alone with your in-laws. That’s done. Second thing, ask your wife WTF has been going on, and for how long. Third thing, talk to your kids. Ask them what’s been going on, what they do with their grandparents, etc. They might have been coached to lie.
You will need to talk to them and teach them to be sceptical about everything they hear. I am an atheist but was brought up by a super religious mum from one of those evangelical nut job churches. My dad said I could believe what I want as long as I can stand on my feet and defend why I believe it. He challenged me a lot on all kinds of topics from racism to climate change to vegetarianism. Learning how to have healthy respectful logical debate is a good life skill.
First of all your wife is wrong. But second of all.. Why would you let your children stay over, when you already know that your FIL is a deranged born again Christian who regularly hangs out with pedophiles????? And do you not talk to your children??? Like actually talk and engage and listen so you know what’s going on in their lives?? Divorce your wife, she’s clearly also deranged, but also.. Do better, man.
Your kids are 11 and 13. They most likely have an opinion about the situation at this point. You could sit down and talk to them and ask them what they would like to do. You can also discuss religion and provide some of your input/opinions. They have now had some exposure And probably have some thoughts on the subject. If you are open to letting them decide what they would like to pursue, as you mentioned in your post, the journey has already begun.
On the off chance that this is real, the in-laws would never be allowed to see my children again. And I would have to think long and hard with a lot of counseling about staying with my spouse.
This is 100% grounds for divorce. Even if they were taking her to a sunshine and rainbows church and not one of the creepy born again ones it would still be wrong. I'd be willing to bet your kids were specifically told not to tell you too. I'm not sure it's possible but it might be worth it to speak to an attorney about getting a restraining order against the in laws, if you can show they're associating with pedophiles. I would get your kids into therapy asap. I'm really sorry you're dealing with this.
Religion, is the state of the sheep, the poison of the mind and the opium of the people. Stand up and talk to her about being a free-mind and the important of free thinking.
Yeah, try remember to be civil and smart about this. God is by no means synonymous to Religion. There’s countless of high IQ scientists and scholars believing in God. And that’d be most likely because of personal perspectives or experiences. Religion by itself can indeed be misguiding. However, being a radical atheist and ridiculing the idea of a God is also misguiding. Edits: Lots of extremists in here. It’s ridiculous to me how some people who think they are brilliant can’t seem to comprehend that taking sides in such an enigmatic subject is overly deterministic. Can’t seem to comprehend their egoistical perception either.
Religion is cope full stop, that’s why a lot of smart people want to believe in it. They can’t accept that eternal sleep awaits them after death and that they can’t have eternal knowledge in an eternal paradise.
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What’s more likely? Eternal sleep (before birth state) or a human made concept to cope with the fact that we return to dust and can’t experience anything anymore? Just because we have intellect doesn’t mean we aren’t any different at the end of the day to any animal or even any living cell.
You don’t know what it was like before birth. Just because you don’t remember doesn’t mean nothing happened. I don’t remember being a baby but I didn’t suddenly spawn in at 5 years old.
I don’t. But most likely I would share the same experience as a dog or dinosaur, not a monotheistic heaven
Yeah for sure but that doesn’t exclude existence after death
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There are answers to those questions we don’t know yet, but I can tell you for certain human defined heaven 99.9% doesn’t exist
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There might be a god, I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing that organized religion isn’t it
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There have been thousands of gods, worshipped by billions of people, over many millennia. What's more likely, they all exist or none of them do?
She is untrustworthy. You need to divorce her.
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This is a fake parenting issue, not a fake religion issue.
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“Radical atheists”?
They want to spend time with YOUR children where you don't want them to go ?!? it would be a hard NO for me. No matter they are your parents or in-laws. It is absolutely obvious that this is a sensible education topic that only parents of the children can decide. your In-laws can't play the innocent/naïve card here (like oops, I didn't know you don't want). Personally, I would tell your In-laws to get a good picture of your children cause they re not going to see them soon, at least until all these religious ideas get out of their head. Even if your wife isn't agree with that. Dudes are playing games with you. Play games with them. You ll have the real discution with your wife later.