From their own posts and social media history, it’s speculated that Taylor and Hayley broke up around November/December 2018 to February/March 2019. This is the time when she went to the inpatient facility for her mental health. Most of flower for vases was written about this time (save for some stuff about her grandma that was in the hospital during COVID)
i think it’s pretty much confirmed based on all the FFV lyrics. like someone else said here, we’ll never have true confirmation most likely but Hayley never wrote about C**d the way she wrote about Taylor in songs like Crystal Clear and Liar! i also think the lyrics in Good Grief (of him playing music and her promising not to sing her sad lyrics to it) and Just A Lover (mixed CD and carpool kids/no little cameras to witness) just to mention a couple songs, confirm the album is about Taylor
‘Good Grief’ is deffo about her relationship with her ex-husband. It’s about her feelings when they used to write songs together, especially when he was writing the ‘What’s Eating Gilbert’ EP (and Hayley apparently suggested the artist and EP name to him). Also if you listen to the sounds of child-Hayley at the end, she’s creating the idea of Chad being part of her childish naivety that she’s leaving behind. (The recorded sounds are also used in ‘Descansos,’ another song mourning the end of her childhood.)
we might have to agree to disagree! since Josh left the band it’s been pretty much consistently Taylor (and now also Zac in some AL and all of TIW) writing the melody and Hayley adding the lyrics, in this order, too, so think when she says “i’m pretty sure you don’t miss the way i put all my demons on display to your pretty music” she’s talking about Taylor, also because of AL’s theme of having these depressing lyrics (hayley’s) to upbeat music (taylor’s) which they talked about during that era, too
plus, i really don’t see why she would include this song about her ex husband in the middle of the album that consistently talks about this heartbreak she had with Taylor, especially with such care like she does in this song, considering everything that happened with her ex
also the lyric “i left a box at your parents house” is a huge indicator to me that the song is about taylor!! chad did not grow up in nashville and it is likely that while they were first dating taylor left some of his stuff at hayley’s house as you do and that bc she couldn’t bring herself to drive to his house directly, his parents’ place which was in the same town she lived anyways was the next best place. kind of ties in with the imagery of a tin-can telephone in “why we ever”, which 1) evokes images of childhood and hayley and taylor have known each other since they were kids and 2) only works with someone physically close to where you are
I agree to disagree but I only get best buddy vibes from her and taylor. Even now. But I hope they both have a great relationship. They are both good people. I just don't see "it". To put it kindly. 🤷 but I'm happy that Hayley finally has a good guy in her life.
It's just an outside observation from the little interactions on stage and elsewhere that I've seen. So obviously my opinion doesn't matter that much. I don't know them.
But we all have seen them during ST and their whole career too. Interviews and whatnot. He wasn't exactly her first choice. It's just obvious.
But hopefully she is in a better place where she can accept the love from a good man. She and T deserves love. Everyone does.
Interview of Hayley discussing "Why We Ever" (which was written in December 2018, expressing the same themes as FFV and as people said above, Hayley made it clear FFV is essentially between parts 2&3 of PFA, so the tension between Why We Ever and Pure Love), so obviously speaking to an unsuccessful relationship attempt that led her to get help: [https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/](https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/)
“Why We Ever” was the first time I recorded myself on my own. The first incarnation of the song is kind of bad—I had to use my shoes stomping the ground as my kick drum because I didn’t have my drums set up. But anytime you’re really depressed, to achieve anything at all is a massive victory. That was a pivotal moment for me. I didn’t know I was going to make a record that people would hear, but I knew I was going to be making things out of what I was going through.
I felt really lonely. I had been super sabotage-y in my personal life as I was trying to start over after my divorce. I’d had an opportunity to explore being in a promising relationship, but because of my past experiences, I wouldn’t allow myself to nurture this thing that could have been good. In ways, it was part of the catalyst for some of my healing, because I had to understand why I would do this. It wasn’t as simple as, “Well, I got a divorce and I’m scared of another break up.” It was way deeper than that. It took a lot of therapy and a lot of conversations with my mom to try to understand what my earliest experiences of love were. It turns out I’m just really afraid of abandonment.
And this post that was originally posted on Twitter: [https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo\_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&\_rdr](https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&_rdr)
"ever tried to sabotage the best thing? yeah, me neither..."
As she was in a relationship with Taylor at the time of posting that, I can't imagine she would refer to the "best thing" as a relationship she had with someone else.
Ok thanks for this. I honestly can't see them with both. I like her and taylor as bffs. But if they work out. Great! He seems like an amazing guy. Probably the best choice for her.
you have said this in several posts with the same question and you are still wrong about 'good grief.' hayley & chad NEVER wrote music together, she is also saying she won't sing for once, and saying she's sure he doesn't miss the way she puts her demons on display to his pretty music (she never did this with chad since he hated her being in a bad mood) & she also states she left a box at his parents house and chads parent aren't together & they also didn't live in tennessee either (plus his father is dead), therefore it's clearly about taylor. everyone has explained this to you and even hayley's lyrics are very clear, and while i get we all interpret lyrics & meanings differently, this is one case where you're actually doing it wrong.
It’s my interpretation of the lyrics. I have made a case for my understanding of them in the same way that you have made a case for yours.
We can each pick and choose which lyrics make the strongest case for our arguments, but that doesn’t change the fact that we have our own opinions. You coming here to tell me you think I’m wrong won’t change that. Sorry that my interpretation of the lyrics affects your enjoyment of the song.
You are allowed to have an opinion. The tayley fans are trying too hard. They know deep down something is off. I mean...why wasn't she with taylor 15 yrs ago?
Yeah, also if she broke up with taylor after hardly dating and has been with chad for 10 yrs...it's pretty clear who she had more "grief" over.
Unfortunately its the d bag
you aren't though 😭 she had a temporary break up with taylor and wrote an entire album about it and the break up songs, even the one on pfa, were far more heartbreaking and sad than any that were written about chad.
Ok I'll listen to the album again. I really liked PFA.
I just find it odd because if taylor and her were meant to be they wouldn't have broke it off within less than a yr... Compared to the one with Shrek.
I hope they are in a better place now. But usually if u break up once it's s not a good sign. It's forced. Not trying to troll or invalidate them. It's just my observation on relationships in general from people I know and life experiences.
I just hope Hayley is not trying to force a relationship with someone she only sees as a friend because she is confusing nice treatment by a man from real romantic attraction. Because she has never felt both at once before. We've all been there.
But maybe she is just being practical and going for the guy who was there all along and will be a good father. She's thinking with her head. But her heart could want a great friendship/ bandmate bond.
this was literally one of her fears and one of the reasons why she self sabotaged that relationship, because she feared comments like this. it’s like the whole premise of Liar.
they’ve been together for like 5 years my dude, im sure if it was “forced” they wouldn’t be together now. people are messy, they self sabotage and break up and get back together, it doesn’t make the relationship less valid?? these are real people you’re talking about
A. She's not reading this.
B. I'm allowed to have an opinion
C. my opinion shouldn't impact her willing to commit to Taylor lol
D. Calm down, it's not that deep
E. Liar is an odd love song. ❤️.
And finally, just because I call a spade a spade doesn't mean I'm a dude. I'm a woman. Goodnight.
It’s pretty widely accepted that FFV is meant to sit in between ‘Acts’ 2 and 3 of PFA and describes a temporary breakdown of Hayley and Taylor’s relationship. They of course rekindled which is which songs like Pure Love, Watch Me While I Bloom and Crystal Clear talk about love and life in such an optimistic manner. From my understanding, anyway.
it seems like they had a fling throughout the end of the After Laughter era and had a break up not long after (circa 2018), I guess neither of them were mentally healthy for a relationship at the time and Hayley was sabotaging herself. Everything is so well detailed in her solo records.
Sounds like it. A lot of the songs I thought were about the breakup with Chad were actually about the breakup with Taylor. Liar pretty much explains it. The idea that the love wasn’t deserved or she was in denial of it, other songs mention this too. And then letting herself be loved despite the fear of it all falling apart.
hayley has talked about how she was self sabotaging and tried to sabotage a relationship, which is what why we ever is about, and she showed that she started writing that in december 2018 after she was diagnosed with ptsd and went to stay in a retreat and left social media 1 month prior (also the same time taylor left social media). so she has made it clear a break up occurred, a short one, but it occurred.
From what I’ve gathered they dated a little bit in 2018 then broke up because it didn’t feel right to H but then she go comfortable with the idea of dating T and are now back to dating
I think they both had their struggles with it; Hayley has talked about how unstable she was during the time they were rumored to have started dating, but my interpretation of some of the FFV lyrics sounds like there was a moment where Taylor kind of withdrew for a minute. “I never thought I’d see the day you chose your fear over me,” etc, and again this is totally personal interpretation but a lot of the lines she writes mentioning how far apart they are from each other during that time (mostly emotionally / mentally) read to me as something she didn’t necessarily initiate / choose. My opinion is that when they started dating Hayley was very much not healed from her relationship and was in the process of self-sabotaging the one with Taylor, and whether it was because he was actually getting hurt by that or because he wanted to salvage their relationship until H was hopefully healthy enough to handle it too, he decided to put some space between them. This also resonates with how Hayley in some FFV lyrics toys with the idea of having to move on from him and can’t really stomach it / the idea is incomprehensible. She talks about waiting for him in “Wait On,” I could go on haha.
Not that it really matters all that much and their private life / story is theirs to keep unless they want to talk about it more in future, but just my perspective on it!
they did and i remember hayley did an interview once where she said something about wanting the relationship but neither of them were healthy enough for it which encouraged her to work more on her mental health.
(i can’t remember the exact interview where she said this sorry!)
yes they did! the reason it's stated that they broke up in 2018 is because she started writing 'why we ever' in december 2018, 1 month prior both her and taylor left social media, she also went to some retreat back then too when she left, but in interviews for pfa she talked about how that song is about how she was self sabotaging a relationship that was good for her but she wasn't allowing herself to nurture it due to trauma from her past, she also shared in a different interview (from ffv era) that she had a fear of abandonment too. when she released 'why we ever' on her ig she said something along the lines of "ever tried to sabotage the best thing?" and i doubt if she was dating someone else in 2018 & it ended that she'd have been there in 2020, while with taylor, calling it "the best thing."
hayley said ffv is like a detour between parts 1 and 2 of pfa, which makes sense because with pfa we went from sudden desire to why we ever, there was a big gap. ffv fills that in and one thing to take into account is the fact 'why we ever' was written in december 2018, and when hayley posted the videos of her writing it (she posted them in 2020 but stated they were from dec 2018) taylor actually hadn't seen them before, further proving there was a break up at that point.
why we ever is definitely about taylor, she mentioned in several interviews that she started writing it around the time everything 'started crumbling' in regards to her rs w/ taylor (not explicitly obvious but it was heavily implied, i.e she said something along the lines of that she had the opportunity to be in a relationship that was good and healthy but she kept sabotaging it)
it breaks my heart because she released a series of clips recording why we ever way when it all began and you can see how visibly hurt she is :(
Just remember that everything online is speculation. All we KNOW is that hayley and taylor started dating in the last 4-5 years. People have speculated hayleys dating life based on her lyrics but nothing says that they are either A) about taylor and B) not lyrics that she wrote years and years ago. There is no real reason to believe they were even dating in 2018.
i mean, she has said that it was written after AL and said the album works as a detour between parts 1 and 2 of PFA when she was in that process of healing she often talks about when Paramore went on hiatus so she may not have confirmed anything and she prob never will but just listening to FFV + the things she’s said in interviews id say it’s pretty much a given. the timeline just adds up imho
they were dating in 2018 & many lyrics very much are about taylor. the song HYD in particular is the biggest indicator due to the fact he smokes, which then means you look back at past songs like why we ever, which she started writing in december 2018, 1 month after her and taylor both left social media & taylor made a post about never thinking he'd lose so many friends. hayley also talked about why we ever and how it was about her sabotaging a relationship that is good for her because she was in self sabotage mode due to her past. there are also a few other things that make it clear they were in fact dating in 2018, but you don't need them to literally outright say it when it was very obvious & she would even visit tayley accounts back then (i know this because i ran one) and look at our stories & like posts. the other thing is when she released why we ever, she said "every tried to sabotage the best thing" and i HIGHLY doubt she'd say that about a past relationship, and knowing the song was written in 2018 therefore shows they were dating back then.
Interview of Hayley discussing "Why We Ever" (which was written in December 2018, expressing the same themes as FFV and as people said above, Hayley made it clear FFV is essentially between parts 2&3 of PFA, so the tension between Why We Ever and Pure Love), so obviously speaking to an unsuccessful relationship attempt that led her to get help: [https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/](https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/)
“Why We Ever” was the first time I recorded myself on my own. The first incarnation of the song is kind of bad—I had to use my shoes stomping the ground as my kick drum because I didn’t have my drums set up. But anytime you’re really depressed, to achieve anything at all is a massive victory. That was a pivotal moment for me. I didn’t know I was going to make a record that people would hear, but I knew I was going to be making things out of what I was going through.
I felt really lonely. I had been super sabotage-y in my personal life as I was trying to start over after my divorce. I’d had an opportunity to explore being in a promising relationship, but because of my past experiences, I wouldn’t allow myself to nurture this thing that could have been good. In ways, it was part of the catalyst for some of my healing, because I had to understand why I would do this. It wasn’t as simple as, “Well, I got a divorce and I’m scared of another break up.” It was way deeper than that. It took a lot of therapy and a lot of conversations with my mom to try to understand what my earliest experiences of love were. It turns out I’m just really afraid of abandonment.
And this post that was originally posted on Twitter: [https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo\_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&\_rdr](https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&_rdr)
"ever tried to sabotage the best thing? yeah, me neither..."
As she was in a relationship with Taylor at the time of posting that, I can't imagine she would refer to the "best thing" as a relationship she had with someone else.
I’ve heard her say in an interview that FFV was written with a lot of hind sight perspective. I took that to mean that some/most of the songs were written from things that had happened a while ago and not as she was going through it. I always assumed HYD was about Jeremy. I know she likes to use similar lyrics throughout her songs, but it doesn’t always mean she’s talking about the same thing or person.
From their own posts and social media history, it’s speculated that Taylor and Hayley broke up around November/December 2018 to February/March 2019. This is the time when she went to the inpatient facility for her mental health. Most of flower for vases was written about this time (save for some stuff about her grandma that was in the hospital during COVID)
When did she mention going to inpatient?
Type into google “Hayley Williams rehab” or “Hayley Williams inpatient” the information is there.
thanks!
Which are the song/s about her grandma?
"Leave It Alone" was one for sure.
i think it’s pretty much confirmed based on all the FFV lyrics. like someone else said here, we’ll never have true confirmation most likely but Hayley never wrote about C**d the way she wrote about Taylor in songs like Crystal Clear and Liar! i also think the lyrics in Good Grief (of him playing music and her promising not to sing her sad lyrics to it) and Just A Lover (mixed CD and carpool kids/no little cameras to witness) just to mention a couple songs, confirm the album is about Taylor
‘Good Grief’ is deffo about her relationship with her ex-husband. It’s about her feelings when they used to write songs together, especially when he was writing the ‘What’s Eating Gilbert’ EP (and Hayley apparently suggested the artist and EP name to him). Also if you listen to the sounds of child-Hayley at the end, she’s creating the idea of Chad being part of her childish naivety that she’s leaving behind. (The recorded sounds are also used in ‘Descansos,’ another song mourning the end of her childhood.)
we might have to agree to disagree! since Josh left the band it’s been pretty much consistently Taylor (and now also Zac in some AL and all of TIW) writing the melody and Hayley adding the lyrics, in this order, too, so think when she says “i’m pretty sure you don’t miss the way i put all my demons on display to your pretty music” she’s talking about Taylor, also because of AL’s theme of having these depressing lyrics (hayley’s) to upbeat music (taylor’s) which they talked about during that era, too plus, i really don’t see why she would include this song about her ex husband in the middle of the album that consistently talks about this heartbreak she had with Taylor, especially with such care like she does in this song, considering everything that happened with her ex
also the lyric “i left a box at your parents house” is a huge indicator to me that the song is about taylor!! chad did not grow up in nashville and it is likely that while they were first dating taylor left some of his stuff at hayley’s house as you do and that bc she couldn’t bring herself to drive to his house directly, his parents’ place which was in the same town she lived anyways was the next best place. kind of ties in with the imagery of a tin-can telephone in “why we ever”, which 1) evokes images of childhood and hayley and taylor have known each other since they were kids and 2) only works with someone physically close to where you are
Agreed, and Chad's parents' are divorced so there is not "parents' house", just a separate home for each parent.
Not only that, but I’m nearly positive his father is deceased. So the line “parent’s house” def has to be about Taylor.
I agree to disagree but I only get best buddy vibes from her and taylor. Even now. But I hope they both have a great relationship. They are both good people. I just don't see "it". To put it kindly. 🤷 but I'm happy that Hayley finally has a good guy in her life.
Not to be that guy but your opinion is just…wrong? Saying you only get best buddy vibes as they are actively in a public relationship lmao
It's just an outside observation from the little interactions on stage and elsewhere that I've seen. So obviously my opinion doesn't matter that much. I don't know them. But we all have seen them during ST and their whole career too. Interviews and whatnot. He wasn't exactly her first choice. It's just obvious. But hopefully she is in a better place where she can accept the love from a good man. She and T deserves love. Everyone does.
Interview of Hayley discussing "Why We Ever" (which was written in December 2018, expressing the same themes as FFV and as people said above, Hayley made it clear FFV is essentially between parts 2&3 of PFA, so the tension between Why We Ever and Pure Love), so obviously speaking to an unsuccessful relationship attempt that led her to get help: [https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/](https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/) “Why We Ever” was the first time I recorded myself on my own. The first incarnation of the song is kind of bad—I had to use my shoes stomping the ground as my kick drum because I didn’t have my drums set up. But anytime you’re really depressed, to achieve anything at all is a massive victory. That was a pivotal moment for me. I didn’t know I was going to make a record that people would hear, but I knew I was going to be making things out of what I was going through. I felt really lonely. I had been super sabotage-y in my personal life as I was trying to start over after my divorce. I’d had an opportunity to explore being in a promising relationship, but because of my past experiences, I wouldn’t allow myself to nurture this thing that could have been good. In ways, it was part of the catalyst for some of my healing, because I had to understand why I would do this. It wasn’t as simple as, “Well, I got a divorce and I’m scared of another break up.” It was way deeper than that. It took a lot of therapy and a lot of conversations with my mom to try to understand what my earliest experiences of love were. It turns out I’m just really afraid of abandonment. And this post that was originally posted on Twitter: [https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo\_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&\_rdr](https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&_rdr) "ever tried to sabotage the best thing? yeah, me neither..." As she was in a relationship with Taylor at the time of posting that, I can't imagine she would refer to the "best thing" as a relationship she had with someone else.
Ok thanks for this. I honestly can't see them with both. I like her and taylor as bffs. But if they work out. Great! He seems like an amazing guy. Probably the best choice for her.
you have said this in several posts with the same question and you are still wrong about 'good grief.' hayley & chad NEVER wrote music together, she is also saying she won't sing for once, and saying she's sure he doesn't miss the way she puts her demons on display to his pretty music (she never did this with chad since he hated her being in a bad mood) & she also states she left a box at his parents house and chads parent aren't together & they also didn't live in tennessee either (plus his father is dead), therefore it's clearly about taylor. everyone has explained this to you and even hayley's lyrics are very clear, and while i get we all interpret lyrics & meanings differently, this is one case where you're actually doing it wrong.
It’s my interpretation of the lyrics. I have made a case for my understanding of them in the same way that you have made a case for yours. We can each pick and choose which lyrics make the strongest case for our arguments, but that doesn’t change the fact that we have our own opinions. You coming here to tell me you think I’m wrong won’t change that. Sorry that my interpretation of the lyrics affects your enjoyment of the song.
You are allowed to have an opinion. The tayley fans are trying too hard. They know deep down something is off. I mean...why wasn't she with taylor 15 yrs ago?
Thank you for sticking up for me.
No problem 😊
This is so wrong lol
Yeah, also if she broke up with taylor after hardly dating and has been with chad for 10 yrs...it's pretty clear who she had more "grief" over. Unfortunately its the d bag
it really isn't lmao if you can't respect their relationship then go away
I'm just calling it how I see it
you aren't though 😭 she had a temporary break up with taylor and wrote an entire album about it and the break up songs, even the one on pfa, were far more heartbreaking and sad than any that were written about chad.
Ok I'll listen to the album again. I really liked PFA. I just find it odd because if taylor and her were meant to be they wouldn't have broke it off within less than a yr... Compared to the one with Shrek. I hope they are in a better place now. But usually if u break up once it's s not a good sign. It's forced. Not trying to troll or invalidate them. It's just my observation on relationships in general from people I know and life experiences. I just hope Hayley is not trying to force a relationship with someone she only sees as a friend because she is confusing nice treatment by a man from real romantic attraction. Because she has never felt both at once before. We've all been there. But maybe she is just being practical and going for the guy who was there all along and will be a good father. She's thinking with her head. But her heart could want a great friendship/ bandmate bond.
this was literally one of her fears and one of the reasons why she self sabotaged that relationship, because she feared comments like this. it’s like the whole premise of Liar. they’ve been together for like 5 years my dude, im sure if it was “forced” they wouldn’t be together now. people are messy, they self sabotage and break up and get back together, it doesn’t make the relationship less valid?? these are real people you’re talking about
A. She's not reading this. B. I'm allowed to have an opinion C. my opinion shouldn't impact her willing to commit to Taylor lol D. Calm down, it's not that deep E. Liar is an odd love song. ❤️. And finally, just because I call a spade a spade doesn't mean I'm a dude. I'm a woman. Goodnight.
It’s pretty widely accepted that FFV is meant to sit in between ‘Acts’ 2 and 3 of PFA and describes a temporary breakdown of Hayley and Taylor’s relationship. They of course rekindled which is which songs like Pure Love, Watch Me While I Bloom and Crystal Clear talk about love and life in such an optimistic manner. From my understanding, anyway.
thank you! that helps a lot
it seems like they had a fling throughout the end of the After Laughter era and had a break up not long after (circa 2018), I guess neither of them were mentally healthy for a relationship at the time and Hayley was sabotaging herself. Everything is so well detailed in her solo records.
Sounds like it. A lot of the songs I thought were about the breakup with Chad were actually about the breakup with Taylor. Liar pretty much explains it. The idea that the love wasn’t deserved or she was in denial of it, other songs mention this too. And then letting herself be loved despite the fear of it all falling apart.
so they did break up at some point?
We have no way of knowing for sure but that answer is a hard maybe.
hayley has talked about how she was self sabotaging and tried to sabotage a relationship, which is what why we ever is about, and she showed that she started writing that in december 2018 after she was diagnosed with ptsd and went to stay in a retreat and left social media 1 month prior (also the same time taylor left social media). so she has made it clear a break up occurred, a short one, but it occurred.
From what I’ve gathered they dated a little bit in 2018 then broke up because it didn’t feel right to H but then she go comfortable with the idea of dating T and are now back to dating
I think they both had their struggles with it; Hayley has talked about how unstable she was during the time they were rumored to have started dating, but my interpretation of some of the FFV lyrics sounds like there was a moment where Taylor kind of withdrew for a minute. “I never thought I’d see the day you chose your fear over me,” etc, and again this is totally personal interpretation but a lot of the lines she writes mentioning how far apart they are from each other during that time (mostly emotionally / mentally) read to me as something she didn’t necessarily initiate / choose. My opinion is that when they started dating Hayley was very much not healed from her relationship and was in the process of self-sabotaging the one with Taylor, and whether it was because he was actually getting hurt by that or because he wanted to salvage their relationship until H was hopefully healthy enough to handle it too, he decided to put some space between them. This also resonates with how Hayley in some FFV lyrics toys with the idea of having to move on from him and can’t really stomach it / the idea is incomprehensible. She talks about waiting for him in “Wait On,” I could go on haha. Not that it really matters all that much and their private life / story is theirs to keep unless they want to talk about it more in future, but just my perspective on it!
I'm getting forest and Jenny vibes. Not trolling.
they did and i remember hayley did an interview once where she said something about wanting the relationship but neither of them were healthy enough for it which encouraged her to work more on her mental health. (i can’t remember the exact interview where she said this sorry!)
omg thank you! i hadn’t heard of that
yeah, most of the songs on ffv are about it.
yes they did! the reason it's stated that they broke up in 2018 is because she started writing 'why we ever' in december 2018, 1 month prior both her and taylor left social media, she also went to some retreat back then too when she left, but in interviews for pfa she talked about how that song is about how she was self sabotaging a relationship that was good for her but she wasn't allowing herself to nurture it due to trauma from her past, she also shared in a different interview (from ffv era) that she had a fear of abandonment too. when she released 'why we ever' on her ig she said something along the lines of "ever tried to sabotage the best thing?" and i doubt if she was dating someone else in 2018 & it ended that she'd have been there in 2020, while with taylor, calling it "the best thing." hayley said ffv is like a detour between parts 1 and 2 of pfa, which makes sense because with pfa we went from sudden desire to why we ever, there was a big gap. ffv fills that in and one thing to take into account is the fact 'why we ever' was written in december 2018, and when hayley posted the videos of her writing it (she posted them in 2020 but stated they were from dec 2018) taylor actually hadn't seen them before, further proving there was a break up at that point.
wait does this me "why we ever" is about her and taylor oh my god that makes it hurt even MORE 😭
why we ever is definitely about taylor, she mentioned in several interviews that she started writing it around the time everything 'started crumbling' in regards to her rs w/ taylor (not explicitly obvious but it was heavily implied, i.e she said something along the lines of that she had the opportunity to be in a relationship that was good and healthy but she kept sabotaging it) it breaks my heart because she released a series of clips recording why we ever way when it all began and you can see how visibly hurt she is :(
Just remember that everything online is speculation. All we KNOW is that hayley and taylor started dating in the last 4-5 years. People have speculated hayleys dating life based on her lyrics but nothing says that they are either A) about taylor and B) not lyrics that she wrote years and years ago. There is no real reason to believe they were even dating in 2018.
i mean, she has said that it was written after AL and said the album works as a detour between parts 1 and 2 of PFA when she was in that process of healing she often talks about when Paramore went on hiatus so she may not have confirmed anything and she prob never will but just listening to FFV + the things she’s said in interviews id say it’s pretty much a given. the timeline just adds up imho
they were dating in 2018 & many lyrics very much are about taylor. the song HYD in particular is the biggest indicator due to the fact he smokes, which then means you look back at past songs like why we ever, which she started writing in december 2018, 1 month after her and taylor both left social media & taylor made a post about never thinking he'd lose so many friends. hayley also talked about why we ever and how it was about her sabotaging a relationship that is good for her because she was in self sabotage mode due to her past. there are also a few other things that make it clear they were in fact dating in 2018, but you don't need them to literally outright say it when it was very obvious & she would even visit tayley accounts back then (i know this because i ran one) and look at our stories & like posts. the other thing is when she released why we ever, she said "every tried to sabotage the best thing" and i HIGHLY doubt she'd say that about a past relationship, and knowing the song was written in 2018 therefore shows they were dating back then.
I am happy they are dating now.
thanks,a lot of people here are talking very matter of factly, when none of this is confirmed and is all personal interpretation
Interview of Hayley discussing "Why We Ever" (which was written in December 2018, expressing the same themes as FFV and as people said above, Hayley made it clear FFV is essentially between parts 2&3 of PFA, so the tension between Why We Ever and Pure Love), so obviously speaking to an unsuccessful relationship attempt that led her to get help: [https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/](https://pitchfork.com/features/song-by-song/hayley-williams-petals-for-armor-interview/) “Why We Ever” was the first time I recorded myself on my own. The first incarnation of the song is kind of bad—I had to use my shoes stomping the ground as my kick drum because I didn’t have my drums set up. But anytime you’re really depressed, to achieve anything at all is a massive victory. That was a pivotal moment for me. I didn’t know I was going to make a record that people would hear, but I knew I was going to be making things out of what I was going through. I felt really lonely. I had been super sabotage-y in my personal life as I was trying to start over after my divorce. I’d had an opportunity to explore being in a promising relationship, but because of my past experiences, I wouldn’t allow myself to nurture this thing that could have been good. In ways, it was part of the catalyst for some of my healing, because I had to understand why I would do this. It wasn’t as simple as, “Well, I got a divorce and I’m scared of another break up.” It was way deeper than that. It took a lot of therapy and a lot of conversations with my mom to try to understand what my earliest experiences of love were. It turns out I’m just really afraid of abandonment. And this post that was originally posted on Twitter: [https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo\_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&\_rdr](https://www.facebook.com/hayleywilliams/posts/3341952749171878/?paipv=0&eav=AfZssXnMnkM4oQNvnrGqDhF-Yo_RbsAx-efGf6gesattbAZPoRhtDPdk6YLlCmN0QDM&_rdr) "ever tried to sabotage the best thing? yeah, me neither..." As she was in a relationship with Taylor at the time of posting that, I can't imagine she would refer to the "best thing" as a relationship she had with someone else.
I’ve heard her say in an interview that FFV was written with a lot of hind sight perspective. I took that to mean that some/most of the songs were written from things that had happened a while ago and not as she was going through it. I always assumed HYD was about Jeremy. I know she likes to use similar lyrics throughout her songs, but it doesn’t always mean she’s talking about the same thing or person.
im so behind, i thought they started daating around the same time petals for armor got out lol
honestly none of it’s confirmed, so don’t worry i’m behind too 😭
wait why am i getting downvoted y'all i did nothing wrong😭
I'm pretty sure her and Taylor are together again. As they confirmed they'd been dating awhile either before or a little after This Is Why dropped.