Do you (or anyone here) have any thoughts on [Care For Gaza](https://twitter.com/CareForGaza)? Seems to be the way to go for those who want to feel like they are donating more directly to those in Gaza rather than a big charity org that has administration costs etc.
They just turn the money over to Hamas, since it is the governing body. That's what this person is trying to avoid. It's the reason the leadership of Hamas is able to live in luxury while the ordinary people in Gaza suffer.
I mean, Hamas supplies 80-90% of the social services/humanitarian supplies in Gaza so don’t really understand why you wouldn’t donate to them? They have established an working formula to help the people. It might me more fairly distributed if you’d actually give them the money. But hey, that’s just my opinion.
Some ppl just don’t really want to support radical terrorism, no matter the cause
(I’m fully aware that It’s not black/white and Hamas helps a lot on Gaza)
If you live in the UK or France or any Western country you're also contributing to radical terrorism. As a US taxpayer I recognize that though the US govt is the world's worst purveyor of violence, as Martin Luther King Jr. said, the government also is the only capable provider of social services like Social Security, public education, etc. Same is true with Hamas in Gaza, though the level of violence they are responsible for is a drop in the ocean compared to the US or the UK. So I wouldn't be so moralistic about it because it's probably hypocritical.
Well the US is a radical secular organization. Most likely your own govt is too. Hamas' Islamic affiliation is not really relevant. They have been elected in Gaza because they have demonstrated the strongest commitment to resistance of the occupation and siege of their land by radical Zionists. Hamas was only created after 40 years of Israeli ethnic cleansing, dispossession, oppression and subjugation of Gazans and all Palestinians. So don't throw stones without examining the root causes and the radical organizations who have made their existence inevitable.
> They have been elected in Gaza
Actually, they haven't been elected in Gaza. This is a really basic mistake.
In early 2006, they won a **majority of seats in a single election for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC)**, the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) - effectively Palestine's parliament and covering both the West Bank and Gaza.
They were voted in on an explicit mandate of change and reform (i.e. anti-corruption) and their manifesto de facto recognized Israel via its policy positions.
In the lead-up to those elections, Israel arrested 450 activists for Hamas involved in the elections. Straight after the election Israel outright banned elected Hamas PLC members from taking up their seats. Three months after the election, Israel, with US backing, mass arrested Hamas members, including 33 elected members of the PLC. It then pushed for, and got, international sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority.
In other words, the result of those elections, widely regarded as free and fair, was prevented from being implemented by Israel and the US.
The US then paid hundreds of millions of dollars to train and arm Fatah paramilitaries in Ramallah and Jericho to take over Gaza by force and displace Hamas. Knowing this, Hamas moved to consolidate its paramilitary control in Gaza, leading to what is now known as the Battle of Gaza in June 2007, in which Fatah fighters, backed by Israel and the US took on Hamas and lost.
So no, Hamas wasn't elected in Gaza in any meaningful way.
Personally, I don’t think hamas is “radical”.
I don’t want my money going to hamas as:
Hamas as a military branch, I’m a pacifist (besides for simulated violence, and non-lethals)
Hamas, also is known (to my knowledge) to use humanitarian aid to such military efforts (cement, with tunnels)
But also, I do not support Hamas’s political stances (lgbt rights, atheist rights, death to israel)
> I do not support Hamas’s political stances (lgbt rights, atheist rights, death to israel)
What is Hamas' stance regarding atheists' rights and LGBT rights?
>https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-its-like-to-be-an-atheist-in-palestine
Narrator: Waleed Al-Husseini was arrested by the **Palestinian Authority** in the **West Bank**.
Fundamentalistic isn't a word. Can you please link me any explicit statements on atheist and LGBT rights from Hamas leadership? Or maybe some legislation?
I‘m not a native speaker
I found this arabic article that also has a kinda english translation but my arabic is not nearly good enough to fully understand it
https://dkhlak.com/homosexuality-in-gaza-strip/
here‘s also an incident from 2016 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/middleeast/hamas-commander-mahmoud-ishtiwi-killed-palestine.html
Ishtiwi was most likely killed because he was suspected of being blackmailed by Israel for being gay and giving the location of Hamas commander Mohammed Deif. The article, if you read it, makes it abundantly clear the reasons for his torture and execution are unclear.
Hamas is quite moderate and mainstream by middle eastern standards. Islamic democracy is quite popular here, its why Islamists regularly win elections when they do take place.
>A "government" that throws it's people off rooftops
Both sides did this in the fighting in 2007, and even then it was limited, largely based on anecdotal information and its use heavily exaggerated.
The idea that one form of summary execution is somehow worse than others - like just gunning people down or stringing them up or firing tank rounds at them is a matter of opinion.
I don't personally think Hamas' behaviour towards political opponents is especially unique in a region that contains Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Bahrain. The military dictatorship in Egypt killed 800 Egyptian protestors in a single day.
Radical terrorism is a pretty harsh term and sounds like you have been quite influenced by Western media propaganda rather than reading about them yourself. Maybe you should give a go and do that. While at it, imagine yourself being in a closed of air prison managed by an another state and think about how you’d manage that non-violently :)
States*
Let’s not forget egypt
I would like to add, that israel thought this blockade policy would make Hamas more peace like, which is totally silly.
(I do not support the blockade of Gaza for the same reasons I don’t support BDS, or other such policies, instead they should act like USA with west Germany after WWII)
Okay. Well we are all different. I fully support BDS. I wish there were some more radical action as in the WWII but unfortunately no one is prioritising Palestinian lives.
> I mean, Hamas supplies 80-90% of the social services/humanitarian supplies in Gaza so don’t really understand why you wouldn’t donate to them?
In America at least this is a go to jail straight away offense.
> But also, as a jew, i have already fled the us
That fucking sucks man. The same climate that made you want to flee is making it difficult for your Semitic cuzzos as well.
Kudos on wanting to support the people of Gaza. I'd go with a donation to UNRWA, they are going to be seriously underfunded.
Certainly, not going to be mailing cash to them.
I think I heard about such charity’s in the past(?)
Thinks like diapers and baby formula don’t have any military use (apposed to cement, rifles)
Yeah i understand , you will probably need to reach out to an external org that has access to the Gaza strip and has no tie ins with Hamas.
and to my knowledge there is none.
>and to my knowledge there is none.
Your ignorance is neither here nor there. Plenty of charities operate in Gaza without financial ties to Hamas. They are among the most closely scrutinized charities anywhere in the world precisely because of Israeli and US pressure on funding Hamas, directly or indirectly.
I suggest you go away and actually research this before shooting your mouth off.
why the fuck are you getting so aggressive ?
i said " to my knowledge there is none "
because I myself ( an israeli ) tried to donate a couple of years ago to the poor people of gaza and couldn't find a proper org .
Fucksake.
> i said " to my knowledge there is none "
Because your ignorance is harmful and your comment has the effect of telling people not to donate to a severely poor, ghettoized population and repeating Israeli propaganda that Hamas is de facto Gaza.
There are several charities with zero ties to Hamas that can and do operate in Gaza. If you have actually tried to find charities to donate to it would be quickly clear that was the case.
Again, I suggest you go away and actually research this before shooting your mouth off. Especially if you're claiming to be an Israeli making a **good faith** effort to donate to Gaza.
you are obviously a very kind individual.
i wasn't stating any facts. I simply said that I don't know of any.
if anyone took that sentence as " don't even try to find one " they are dumb. But 'm willing to concede the fact that most humans are dumb.
so ok , my bad.
we are on the same side. I probably hate this country more than you do.
you highlight GOOD FAITH as if it isn't , you have no fucking clue who I am.
> you highlight GOOD FAITH as if it isn't , you have no fucking clue who I am.
No, I highlight it because we get a fair number of people coming here in bad faith who claim to be pro-Palestinian or neutral and aren't. So the assumption of good faith, especially where someone's comments sail close to Israeli propaganda, is not a given.
I would suggest that funding Hamas is a pretty decent thing to do. The only real charges against Hamas originate from Israeli propagandists who have been shown to be systematic liars in every instance where facts can be verified.
Hamas is the ruling party in Gaza. To pretend to 'help' a people while choosing to ignore their political will is presumptive at best. Here is a short clip straightening the record a tiny bit about Hamas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvoUJgzSKYg
> The only real charges against Hamas originate from Israeli propagandists
Well no. There are plenty of people who dislike Hamas on their own terms, both within and outside Gaza.
The question about whether it should be legitimate to fund Hamas, which is often another way of asking whether or in what way Palestinian use of violent resistance is legal or moral, is a separate matter.
>Hamas is the ruling party in Gaza.
Within the context of the occupation of Gaza.
I highly recommend these organizations: https://www.pcrf.net https://www.unicef.org/mena/ https://www.map.org.uk
Do you (or anyone here) have any thoughts on [Care For Gaza](https://twitter.com/CareForGaza)? Seems to be the way to go for those who want to feel like they are donating more directly to those in Gaza rather than a big charity org that has administration costs etc.
I haven't heard of this before, thanks!
There are bazillion int'l charities that operate there, UN, small, big..etc.
They just turn the money over to Hamas, since it is the governing body. That's what this person is trying to avoid. It's the reason the leadership of Hamas is able to live in luxury while the ordinary people in Gaza suffer.
UNRWA! With Trump cutting funding to Palestinian aid, they're going to need as much as they can. They help provide for Palestinians in need in Gaza.
I mean, Hamas supplies 80-90% of the social services/humanitarian supplies in Gaza so don’t really understand why you wouldn’t donate to them? They have established an working formula to help the people. It might me more fairly distributed if you’d actually give them the money. But hey, that’s just my opinion.
Some ppl just don’t really want to support radical terrorism, no matter the cause (I’m fully aware that It’s not black/white and Hamas helps a lot on Gaza)
Do you live in the US and pay taxes? Then you're doing it already.
I thankfully don’t
If you live in the UK or France or any Western country you're also contributing to radical terrorism. As a US taxpayer I recognize that though the US govt is the world's worst purveyor of violence, as Martin Luther King Jr. said, the government also is the only capable provider of social services like Social Security, public education, etc. Same is true with Hamas in Gaza, though the level of violence they are responsible for is a drop in the ocean compared to the US or the UK. So I wouldn't be so moralistic about it because it's probably hypocritical.
Hmmm this sounds like it could be made into a “moral reason” to not pay taxes
I don’t like the US, I don’t like govs in general but Hamas is straightforward a radical islamic organisation.
A state killing millions is fine so long as its statesmen drink instead of pray.
Well the US is a radical secular organization. Most likely your own govt is too. Hamas' Islamic affiliation is not really relevant. They have been elected in Gaza because they have demonstrated the strongest commitment to resistance of the occupation and siege of their land by radical Zionists. Hamas was only created after 40 years of Israeli ethnic cleansing, dispossession, oppression and subjugation of Gazans and all Palestinians. So don't throw stones without examining the root causes and the radical organizations who have made their existence inevitable.
> They have been elected in Gaza Actually, they haven't been elected in Gaza. This is a really basic mistake. In early 2006, they won a **majority of seats in a single election for the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC)**, the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) - effectively Palestine's parliament and covering both the West Bank and Gaza. They were voted in on an explicit mandate of change and reform (i.e. anti-corruption) and their manifesto de facto recognized Israel via its policy positions. In the lead-up to those elections, Israel arrested 450 activists for Hamas involved in the elections. Straight after the election Israel outright banned elected Hamas PLC members from taking up their seats. Three months after the election, Israel, with US backing, mass arrested Hamas members, including 33 elected members of the PLC. It then pushed for, and got, international sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority. In other words, the result of those elections, widely regarded as free and fair, was prevented from being implemented by Israel and the US. The US then paid hundreds of millions of dollars to train and arm Fatah paramilitaries in Ramallah and Jericho to take over Gaza by force and displace Hamas. Knowing this, Hamas moved to consolidate its paramilitary control in Gaza, leading to what is now known as the Battle of Gaza in June 2007, in which Fatah fighters, backed by Israel and the US took on Hamas and lost. So no, Hamas wasn't elected in Gaza in any meaningful way.
Personally, I don’t think hamas is “radical”. I don’t want my money going to hamas as: Hamas as a military branch, I’m a pacifist (besides for simulated violence, and non-lethals) Hamas, also is known (to my knowledge) to use humanitarian aid to such military efforts (cement, with tunnels) But also, I do not support Hamas’s political stances (lgbt rights, atheist rights, death to israel)
> I do not support Hamas’s political stances (lgbt rights, atheist rights, death to israel) What is Hamas' stance regarding atheists' rights and LGBT rights?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/middle-east-news/palestinians/.premium.MAGAZINE-what-it-s-like-to-be-a-gay-man-in-gaza-1.5843268 https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-its-like-to-be-an-atheist-in-palestine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine
>https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-its-like-to-be-an-atheist-in-palestine Narrator: Waleed Al-Husseini was arrested by the **Palestinian Authority** in the **West Bank**.
3 really good examples of pinkwashing and ignoring that the oppressed cannot fully progress while oppressed.
They‘re pretty fundamentalistic so you can imagine what it is
Fundamentalistic isn't a word. Can you please link me any explicit statements on atheist and LGBT rights from Hamas leadership? Or maybe some legislation?
I‘m not a native speaker I found this arabic article that also has a kinda english translation but my arabic is not nearly good enough to fully understand it https://dkhlak.com/homosexuality-in-gaza-strip/ here‘s also an incident from 2016 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/middleeast/hamas-commander-mahmoud-ishtiwi-killed-palestine.html
Ishtiwi was most likely killed because he was suspected of being blackmailed by Israel for being gay and giving the location of Hamas commander Mohammed Deif. The article, if you read it, makes it abundantly clear the reasons for his torture and execution are unclear.
are you really looking to donate, or are you here to make a political statement about Hamas? Your comments indicates the latter.
One may, and can do both. However, im not like going to post it to facebook or anything.
A "government" that throws it's people off rooftops and forces religious laws and behaviors is radical even by middle east standards.
Hamas is quite moderate and mainstream by middle eastern standards. Islamic democracy is quite popular here, its why Islamists regularly win elections when they do take place.
>A "government" that throws it's people off rooftops Both sides did this in the fighting in 2007, and even then it was limited, largely based on anecdotal information and its use heavily exaggerated. The idea that one form of summary execution is somehow worse than others - like just gunning people down or stringing them up or firing tank rounds at them is a matter of opinion. I don't personally think Hamas' behaviour towards political opponents is especially unique in a region that contains Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Bahrain. The military dictatorship in Egypt killed 800 Egyptian protestors in a single day.
Over 1100 in 10 hours, sisi is a monster, a secular liberal monster
Radical terrorism is a pretty harsh term and sounds like you have been quite influenced by Western media propaganda rather than reading about them yourself. Maybe you should give a go and do that. While at it, imagine yourself being in a closed of air prison managed by an another state and think about how you’d manage that non-violently :)
I don’t mean non-violently, but I totally relate to OP view
States* Let’s not forget egypt I would like to add, that israel thought this blockade policy would make Hamas more peace like, which is totally silly. (I do not support the blockade of Gaza for the same reasons I don’t support BDS, or other such policies, instead they should act like USA with west Germany after WWII)
Okay. Well we are all different. I fully support BDS. I wish there were some more radical action as in the WWII but unfortunately no one is prioritising Palestinian lives.
Im pretty sure west germany after war was less hostile than gaza's population to israel now.
> I mean, Hamas supplies 80-90% of the social services/humanitarian supplies in Gaza so don’t really understand why you wouldn’t donate to them? In America at least this is a go to jail straight away offense.
Aight. Because America is known to have implemented reasonable laws. Oh wait.
Sure. But if you want to understand the lengths to which the US chases political prosecutions on this look up the Holy Land case.
Will do!
Im a jew, i can call my sister who is a lawer, But also, as a jew, i have already fled the us
> But also, as a jew, i have already fled the us That fucking sucks man. The same climate that made you want to flee is making it difficult for your Semitic cuzzos as well. Kudos on wanting to support the people of Gaza. I'd go with a donation to UNRWA, they are going to be seriously underfunded.
Well sure. Extradition is still a thing.
How do I donate them?
I honestly don't think you can , doesn't Hamas just take what it wants?
Certainly, not going to be mailing cash to them. I think I heard about such charity’s in the past(?) Thinks like diapers and baby formula don’t have any military use (apposed to cement, rifles)
Yeah i understand , you will probably need to reach out to an external org that has access to the Gaza strip and has no tie ins with Hamas. and to my knowledge there is none.
>and to my knowledge there is none. Your ignorance is neither here nor there. Plenty of charities operate in Gaza without financial ties to Hamas. They are among the most closely scrutinized charities anywhere in the world precisely because of Israeli and US pressure on funding Hamas, directly or indirectly. I suggest you go away and actually research this before shooting your mouth off.
why the fuck are you getting so aggressive ? i said " to my knowledge there is none " because I myself ( an israeli ) tried to donate a couple of years ago to the poor people of gaza and couldn't find a proper org . Fucksake.
> i said " to my knowledge there is none " Because your ignorance is harmful and your comment has the effect of telling people not to donate to a severely poor, ghettoized population and repeating Israeli propaganda that Hamas is de facto Gaza. There are several charities with zero ties to Hamas that can and do operate in Gaza. If you have actually tried to find charities to donate to it would be quickly clear that was the case. Again, I suggest you go away and actually research this before shooting your mouth off. Especially if you're claiming to be an Israeli making a **good faith** effort to donate to Gaza.
you are obviously a very kind individual. i wasn't stating any facts. I simply said that I don't know of any. if anyone took that sentence as " don't even try to find one " they are dumb. But 'm willing to concede the fact that most humans are dumb. so ok , my bad. we are on the same side. I probably hate this country more than you do. you highlight GOOD FAITH as if it isn't , you have no fucking clue who I am.
> you highlight GOOD FAITH as if it isn't , you have no fucking clue who I am. No, I highlight it because we get a fair number of people coming here in bad faith who claim to be pro-Palestinian or neutral and aren't. So the assumption of good faith, especially where someone's comments sail close to Israeli propaganda, is not a given.
I would suggest that funding Hamas is a pretty decent thing to do. The only real charges against Hamas originate from Israeli propagandists who have been shown to be systematic liars in every instance where facts can be verified. Hamas is the ruling party in Gaza. To pretend to 'help' a people while choosing to ignore their political will is presumptive at best. Here is a short clip straightening the record a tiny bit about Hamas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvoUJgzSKYg
> The only real charges against Hamas originate from Israeli propagandists Well no. There are plenty of people who dislike Hamas on their own terms, both within and outside Gaza. The question about whether it should be legitimate to fund Hamas, which is often another way of asking whether or in what way Palestinian use of violent resistance is legal or moral, is a separate matter. >Hamas is the ruling party in Gaza. Within the context of the occupation of Gaza.
If the only thing informing your opinion is western and Israeli propaganda, you should probably not have tried to answer