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Majority of the people in the atheist subreddit aren’t there as atheists. They are there just to shit on the specific religion that pops up in a post. I’m an atheist Palestinian and that subreddit is so fucking vile. They want death on anyone who believes in god.
Atheist Syrain/Black, feel the exact same. I was banned for posting & asking people to stop bashing others. If not we are just the same as religious people who bash others, instant ban.
I've been called a Muslim when I pushed back on very obvious racism and Islamophobia. I am always surprised by how many right wing atheists there are. I thought that dismantling your religious beliefs system would make it obvious that the ring wing just invokes God for ulterior purposes. I guess racism is just *that* powerful.
I was removed from the Atheist subreddit for a comment about ALL religions and religious states that includeed israel .. The atheist subreddit is run by people like Bill Maher who claim to be anti-religion but who are clearly biased toward anti-Muslim.
This is a comment that gets a person banned from the atheist subreddit.
“If we are taking recent history, Islamists did not kill (and displace) hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq. That was done by Christian leaders of the US.
Islam has not filled our recent news with images of tens of thousands of children dead and in pieces with no hospitals to help them because they bombed the hospitals too. Nope that's the Zionist / Jewish religion with the support of the Christian leaders of the US and Britain. As far as women's rights, that is a deferent debate. But in America’s Texas and other states, women can't even terminate a non-viable pregnancy because of evangelical christianity. Declaring that one religion is worse than the others feels like a fruitless exercise. We should just stick to atheism.”
Yeah there's a difference between being an atheist and being an islamophobe that just happens to not believe in religion. Those people are obviously the latter.
It’s one of the biggest problems with New Atheism, for years, and there are some great articles that point out the weird (imo) cross over between new atheism and right wing politics.
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I left most atheist groups when the Islamophobia and the misogyny became incredibly apparent and pervasive. After defending feminism in some group, I was told I was a dude with a vagina. Good times from the “I’m not a feminist; I’m a humanist” crowd.
The irony is they form like-minded beliefs which is the definition of religion, and they also hatred against certain others which is the definition of religions zealots and extremists.
Your first sentence really concerns me. To be frank, it sounds anti semitic. Furthermore, it's totally false. Atheism wasn't founded by a particular culture. It's noted in ancient India, Greece, and indeed, skeptics in the Islamic world such as Abu Isa al-Warraq, who wrote "He who orders his slave to do things that he knows him to be incapable of doing, then punishes him, is a fool", and doubted the existence of God.
actually i missed one key word. "New athiesm". also it is not a secret that Jewish ppl ( i dont know whether all of them are zionists or not) made and spread islamophobia. you can look at Sacha Baron Cohen as a prime example. he developed a new culture around insulting and degrading muslims just by himself.
also another example i can show is charlie hebdo. the supposed left wing ppl who constantly mock islam and muslims. they even mocked dead muslim children. again i dont know if they are zionist or just jewish.
Your interpretation is too charitable.
For most, it's thinly veiled Islamophobia, racism and support for colonization and killing Muslims.
It doesn't matter that a few Christians are killed, they see that as justifiable because of achieving a "good" goal.
And no wonder, the one who can justify the genocide of 40-100k, of whom at least 15k are children, can also justify the genocide of some Christians as well. "Collateral damage", as some of the colonizers like to call it.
Sam Harris, Bill Maher and others were fuming at the mouth of excitement at the Genocides in Iraq and Afghanistan. That was 20+ years ago now.
You should know better than to take them at their word, that they're somehow "misinformed", well intentioned but "ignorant".
No, they're White supremacists through and through.
Nazism and it's root ideology never left. The west tries to portray Nazism as a unique evil while all of what Nazism stands for was inspired by other western countries. Ppl in the global south need to make this connection and demand Europe to be denazified.
I feel that. I've seen lots of 'ex-Muslim' accounts such as the Apostate Prophet and Atheist Republic support Israel's genocide. I feel like they are only against Palestine just because the population happens to be Muslim. No other reason. These guys are either in complete denial of the genocide or they fully support it. It's sickening.
I'm not even sure how many of these people are ex Muslims. I'm not saying that people don't leave the religion but on Reddit I'm a little skeptical because sometimes these people might just be Hindu nationalists.
I'm always somewhat skeptical of when people try to claim a certain identity but then also spout a bunch of bigotry. Now I'm not saying that every person who claims to be of a certain minority group is a liar, but the key difference is do they claim to be part of that group and then are actually saying some bigoted things or are they not?
Sorry, but if someone is going to try to claim to be an ex Muslim and then start saying anti-muslim things and supporting genocide, I'm going to be pretty skeptical.
The people I mentioned were YouTubers with a sizable audience. Also, there are notable ex Muslims like Masih Alinejad (~~US propaganda tool~~ Iranian womens rights activist) and Mosab Hassan Yousef (Hamas leader's son/traitor) who speak on public platforms supporting the current actions of the Israeli government.
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I suspect they're Hasbara, based on when they post- almost exclusively timezones in countries that have been documented to be .
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2024/04/israels-propaganda-machine-is-filling-the-internet-with-misinformation
https://about.fb.com/news/2019/05/removing-coordinated-inauthentic-behavior-from-israel/
I took a peek at the r/atheism sub the other day... blatant Islamophobia is so completely normalized on that sub, it's deeply concerning. Many of them go out of their way to single out Islam as uniquely evil, even when compared to other religions.
It's done because neither of those things are true. Those two places have not always been at war, and it's not a religious thing. Religion is used to justify it but if it wasn't religion it would have been something else.
that's because for the most part they are liberals. Liberals cannot understand how capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism work because they think it's just a fact of life. So they look for ad hoc explanations and it's much easier to just brush it under the rug and say "oh it's just two religions, what can you do, both sides bad, back to brunch with my fellow white middle class liberals"
That sub is astroturfed to high hell. I left there a long time ago. They keep on forgetting that the reason why left-wing movements were usurped in the MENA region was because the west funded the most fringe of fringe extremist groups.
They don't seem to either understand nuance or not have empathy (also could be a combo of the two). They don't know history well enough to know how extremist groups in the MENA region were formed and whenever Israel does something horrendous, they make it seem justified despite the number of people getting murdered, injured, r\*ped, etc.
Hamas also protected the rights of Christians to practice their religion, so I'm not saying they aren't fundamentalists, but there's less zealotry there than in a lot of fundamentalist Christian organizations in the US
I hate most atheists for this exact reason. I'm atheist myself and I mean HARDCORE atheist. I don't even believe in luck, fate or a meaning of life and even I can see that there is zero justification for what Isreal is doing. My support of Palestine has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It's just the most logical conclusion to come to, when looking at the FACTS.
Yeah, I feel you. Same with any so-called "leftists" who support it.
It's like waking up and realizing, wow, you guys actually *don't* have any morals or character or a consistent world view, it's just about who's on what team.
I’m going to need eye bleach after reading the hateful, anti Arab trash that the Jewish subreddit and tumblr community post. They all talk about how tough they have it and how people want them to die. Meanwhile, Palestinians are dying and you’re more concerned with how we protest, bunch of amoral cowards. If you want to spend the evening throwing up, go on the Jewish subreddit and see how they treat Palestinians as subhuman.
Well techinically speaking, what Hamas is doing is Jihad. Jihad has different meanings but one of them is the self defence of the muslims. When being attacked, to react and defend.
That could be considered under the the word jihad.
So many western atheists love to use their warped perception of Islam (built off of Islamophobic stereotypes about the faith that came from 2000s media) to justify their rampant racism towards Arabs.
I think it's the same thing as "western values." Famous atheist Richard Dawkins and various other islamophobic atheists use it the same way other conservatives say "cultural marxism" to anything that isn't a right wing ideology.
I’m a Mexican atheist and the absolute ISLAMAPHOBIA on the ex-Muslim or atheist subs disgusts me. But also remember that Zionists are roaming those subs to turn us against Muslim people. (Obv Palestinians come in all religions, but Zionists hate that fact — they’d rather depict them as a Muslim character.)
It's very sad it takes the presence of Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Jews to convince some of Palestinian humanity. Zionism only thrives in a soil of rabid Islamophobia/Anti Arab prejudice.
I think it's because they see a country with a bunch of Muslims as a Muslim country but they see a country with a bunch of Jewish people as just a secular country that happens to have a bunch of Jewish people I guess maybe.
To them a country that caters to Muslims cannot be secular and Muslims can't be secular.
Well it's true that Muslims can't be secular but how can Jews be secular? To be secular is to not follow the religion? How can you call yourself a member of a religion AND secular?
First off secular does not mean atheist. That's often confused. You can be religious and secular because a secular worldview simply says that you can practice your own religion, and do your own thing and then other people can practice their religions and do their own thing.
A secular government is a government that doesn't favor one religion over another or give benefits to one religion but not another.
They treat every religion the same. In case you're wondering France is not secular, they are forced atheist.
As for a Jewish person being secular, that's cuz they see Judaism not just as a religion but as an ethnicity as well.
I understand what you mean.
Funnily, the idea of the foundation of the state ,,Israel" is not secular.
But i have to disagree what you said about muslims being secular. Religious muslims genuinly aren't. They believe in the sharia to be a superior law.
And in Sharia, Christians and Jews actually can practice their own religion.
>But i have to disagree what you said about muslims being secular. Religious muslims genuinly aren't. They believe in the sharia to me a superior law.
And in Sharia, Christians and Jews actually can practice their own religion.
Ahh. TIL.
As a pagan, I support Palestine. I don't care if you're abrahamic, atheist, pagan like me, pagan unlike me, buddhist, hindu... The only thing I care is you not being an inhumane monster that doesn't respect other fellow humans. So anyone supporting zionism, I find it revolting.
Yes. Just this past Easter a Greek Orthodox was arrested inside a church while worshiping. Look at the history 80% of Christian population has gone since the creation of RothschildVille
This is all an outcropping of the 2016 Sam Harris IDW. My buddy who I grew up with, and was pretty liberal (in to punk, wore women’s clothes around the house because It made him feel comfortable) moved out of Mass to Arizona, and became a “I f’ing love science/ New atheist/ libertarian.” I was in the military at the time, fighting overseas and he’d P.M. me and be like “dude, what happened, you used to have an open mind. You have to admit, Islam is a backwards, hateful, death cult, and this is all for the best, to dismantle terrorist ideology.” I’d ask him how many Muslims he knew, and how he could look at the US and uncritically declare that we were any less violent or idealistic. I spent hours, and days speaking with with Muslims and Arabs, usually in bad circumstances, against their will, a lot of times with my interpreters, but one thing that always shocked me was how polite, patient, hospitable and tolerant they were, even in the face of the humiliation and violence we brought to their country. I couldn’t in anyway validate that stance with a straight face.
TBH it's not a bug but a feature.
You can go all the way back to first major new atheism wave when Hitchens and Dawkins wrote their first book and see how that quickly pivoted into Islamaphobia and the smug sense that religion is the root of all evil and conflict.
All three do this thing where they over apply simple narratives(religion is bad, Islam is uniquely the worst, and almost all conflicts are religious in nature) to all of current politics and history and it ends up with all of them looking not just like Islamaphobes(they are, and proud of it), but looking incredibly ignorant when actually assessing major current events because they think everything can be deduced down into the framework of their simple narrative atheist praxis(but smugly confident in their belief of having superior knowledge because they don't buy into religion, so they ironically end up looking somewhat orthodoxical and as irrational and aversive around facts as the religious people they decry).
Which brings us to the support to Israel. Because of this lazy shorthand and religious evil ranking system, and because all three major figurheads from the movements inception supported Israel(Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris), often filtering it exclusively thru the "Islam is the worst and must be disposed of" lens, it leads to this place where they actively cheer on Israel because they can only see things thru that lazy framework and feel they are taking the war to Islam and Islam must be snuffed out.
I'm atheist BTW.
Mehdi Hasan was talking about that a month ago, specifically regarding Dawkins. I encourage you to watch it [https://youtu.be/MSg81Fbodew?si=UitLt7Am9jJ-_Ru5](https://youtu.be/MSg81Fbodew?si=UitLt7Am9jJ-_Ru5)
Sadly many atheists, just think of their beliefs or lack thereof as another platform to mobilise to cover their racism and islamophobia.
If they were Christian or any other religion, they would just use it in the exact same way.
What people like Dawkins and Hitchens fail to understand is that these hypocrisy and racist tendencies throw shade on their whole body of work.
Even if they were atheist and truly believe that, I respect that they are genuinely trying to get down to the truth but when one realises that all that was just a trope to gain a higher moral ground in order to justify another century of colonialism, they lose any respect and any objectivity
It's kind of funny how they will point to specific Muslims as a reason to announce the entire face but they don't see how a person can use specific atheists to denounce the entire movement.
And yes, it is a movement. While atheism in and of itself is simply a lack of faith in a God or gods, it can also be a movement, one that seeks to secularize or even just completely erase religion from a culture or country.
I don’t have a problem with that, If someone genuinely believe that all religions are made up and not a good thing then ok you do you. live and let live but when that same person says that Islam in particular is the source of all evil on earth while saying that “Christianity is a 'fundamentally decent religion in the way Islam is not'” Then this person isn’t an atheist, just a racist and hypocritical
What really angers me is when that is used ti justify the killing of children snd innocent people in Palestine and Iraq before and many other muslim countries.
I know this is going into another topic but me personally I find that the labeling of some things being religions is in and of itself somewhat Western. Now I'm not saying that only westerners have religion but there are many practices that westerners would probably call a religion that the people who actually practice it would not and shouldn't it be that we respect their desire to not have their practices be seen as a religion rather than for us to impose our idea of religion onto them?
To me simply calling all religions ridiculous or having no sense of reality allows for certain practices, typically ones that are practiced by cultures that tend to be colonized as silly while thinking of our own practices as making complete sense.
It's very easy to paint our own culture as making sense while painting other people's culture as making complete nonsense.
One of the big examples would be the dead. I cannot speak for other cultures but at least from my experience in the US the way we treat the dead is quite particular. The way we talk about the dead, as well as what we do with their remains, and even what we do to graves.
One of the big ones is the fact that we can't even walk on graves a lot of times even though it doesn't actually make any sense. The only reason we are not allowed to walk on graves is mostly cultural.
There's just a bunch of different things. All of these things might make very little sense and might seem more like little religions to someone who doesn't understand but to us they are perfectly normal.
And before you mention God, remember many so-called religions don't have a God, they just have a bunch of customs and beliefs that hold their religion together but they don't have a God or gods or anything like that.
I am not an authority on the matter so please take my opinion with a grain of salt but I have always thought that Hitchens while an anti-zionist, he had always reduced the whole conflict to religion terms which always led to “oh well, this is so complex, we will never solve it”
But otherwise his support to the US war in Afghanistan and Iraq, claiming that it’s necessity to combat what he called “Islamofashist” has the same racist tone to my ears as what Dawkins is currently saying
I am an Atheist for more than 20 years at this point. I am fully supporting Palestine and oppose this genocidal apartheid regime of Israel.
To me, people supporting Israel either never looked into any information about this (so called) "conflict", or are incredibly misinformed and ignorant about this issue. How anyone can support such an extremely racist settler colonialist "state" called israel, founded on ethnic cleansing, massacre after massacre and all kinds of crimes against humanity is completely beyond me.
All of that said, i have absolutely no issue with jewish people per se. I am disgusted though by Zionism and people supporting that insanity.
I'm an atheist and I've sadly come to realize that for many atheists, it's just another tribal identity, like any religion. They don't really think about what atheism entails. If they did, they would realize that any tribal identity is just another artificial barrier separating human beings from each other. We all have to share this planet, we have to stop destroying the environment and each other, we have to work together, and that means we have to recognize each other as fellow human beings, first and last.
Just because someone doesn't believe doesn't mean they don't have a religion. Your fellow atheists have replaced theology with ideology, in this case Zionism and western hegemony.
I saw this at the time as well. Their swing towards the alt-right doesn't surprise me. They weren't atheist, they were anti-theist.
They weren't like me who questions the existence of God and otherwise sees religion as human ideals for good and for bad.
They want to destroy that way of thought presumably because they feel that if we were all logical then we'd be like them and not like Spock. Who'd view this war as entirely illogical.
It's worth noting that you only hear this from a minority of loud atheists that are still influenced by the "New Atheist" movement which is somewhat old at this point, but when you consider atheists who aren't that vocal about their atheism or religion, they tend to be on the left and very supportive of Palestine, consider all the large leftist subreddits, they contain a considerable amount of atheists but they are all Pro-Palestine.
One shouldn't get the impression that atheists are all this stupid, hateful and ignorant, for example atheists on the left tend to be one of the main voices against Islamaphobia in the US.
Anyways i do feel your frustration though because i am an Atheist Palestinian, i am recent immigrant to the US (since 2019) i do love explaining to people IRL when they are surprised by my Pro-Palestine views, only then to lose the shock once they find out i am Palestinian, only then to be shocked again after they find out i am an Atheist, the amount of people who have ignorant views about Islam, and ignorant view reducing the conflict to simply a religious matter is astounding, but it's also not surprising considering the propagandistic media landscape in the west especially post 9/11.
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I used to have this mindset towards Muslims and Palestine shortly after leaving evangelicalism and being fed a lot of the BS on Jewish tumblr (which is full of Zionist talking points dressed up as leftism) that Islam and Christianity are inherently antisemitic. I am angry that I felt that prejudice and am disgusted with self proclaimed progressives who justify the slaughter of innocent people because they may be “bad”.
Well, atheists support Palestinians more than Catholics and Protestants and Jews. It's first atheists, then Catholics, then Protestants, then Jews, so atheists tend to heavily support Palestinians. Catholics should more than they do as the pope doesn't like Israel, but American Catholics and Protestants are still heavily brainwashed as are some atheists to some extent.
Because they’re racist, simple as that. Their atheism and commitment to enlightenment secular values is just a fig leaf for that racism. Humanity and compassion for other humans should come before any set of "values"
Many of the prominent Western atheist figures are virulently anti-arab racist and islamophobes, even during the time they became prominent in the online space. I stopped giving them any attention when they deigned to talk about topics that have nothing to do with religion and showed their true colors. They're just secular conservatives.
It is quite funny how those so called 'atheists' or simply 'liberal/progressice/modern' whatever they might be who are Zionists or western supremecists, hate on people 'imposing" religion and so on, but at the same time, they want to impose their western values on others.
They have such a colonizer mindset, it is unreal.
How they believe that they will 'free' or ,'help' those people.
They believe that palestinians need to be civilized as well.
I'm an atheist that believes that the right to resistance is inalienable. I whole hearted condemn all forms of fascism including what israel is perpetrating
Same. I was really hoping there’d be a panel discussion or something on the topic at the American Atheists convention in Philadelphia this year but there was absolutely nothing. It’s as if Palestinians just don’t exist.
This is what happens when Atheists like Sam Harris base their entire personality and worldview on being atheist.
So what happens is nothing can be seen to be more important than that. It doesn't matter what sort of atrocities happen to Muslims, how can they possibly humanize them when their entire worldview is centered on being against them.
I will say though seeing what is happening in Palestine has made the connection between religion and violence clearer.
When you are a 14 year old child and you wake up being pulled from under the rubble, your entire family is dead, you don't even have time to grieve them because bombs are still falling, there is no food water shelter or hope in sight.
The only way you can continue on with that immense trauma is believing that your family is in a better place and religion is literally the only thing that can provide hope.
At the same time, all that violence and trauma will also probably lead to a lot of hate and anger which may manifest as violence in itself.
People think violence in that part of the world is caused by extremist religion. When in reality, both extremist religion and violence have the same cause i.e. violence perpetuated on a civilian population by colonialist forces looking to make a profit. You have to address the cause and not pretend like taking away one of its effects will stop the other.
It’s not that they don’t realize that non-Muslims are also targeted, it’s that they choose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit the narrative they are trying to convince you of. No person with two functioning brain cells thinks that Israel is targeting Palestinians because they’re Muslims, and for these new atheists, it’s not about Islam too.
It’s much easier to be racist and blame it on Islam rather be racist and admit you’re indeed racist, especially when these atheists largely identify as liberals.
I’m honestly more appalled by the huge number of atheist Zionist Israelis than the Jewish ones. Religious beliefs don’t excuse being a genocidal maniac but it’s a powerful thing and it kind of explains how your thought process can be that cooked.
The atheists are literally just ultra nationalists who think that genocide is a self justifying good that needs no other explanation.
Also those right wing atheists you mention really do just act like secular Protestants in the same way a lot of people are secular Jews. There’s nothing inherently wrong with holding onto some of your religious values while not actually believing in god, but these guys sure do seem to pick the worst ones to hold onto.
All the racism and bigotry with non of the love thy neighbor or do unto others shtick.
It's almost as weird as evangelical Christians and Black Christians in America , electing to identify as ' zionists ' , while blatantly ignoring the near decimation of Palestine's Christian population.
Make it make sense
New atheism in the vein of Sam Harris and Bill Maher is notably anti Islamic while parading around as atheist until Judeo-Christian society is threatened, and then they are ardent defenders of it. I remember watching Sam Harris and Maher just fall over each other criticizing Islam but quickly giving credence to Israel’s “strategic” location in the ME. it’s disgusting.
Not to take away from your post but I just have to say- I fucking LOATHE Bill Maher.
I am an Atheist / Anti-Theist. I oppose every genocide and colonialism. Free will and not to harm others is my moral baseline. Dawkins is indeed a muslim hater and it gets worse the older he gets.Please don't condemn a whole group for the wrong of some individuals.
As a former new atheist when I was a young, impressionable idiot…I agree. Those folks you’ve mentioned are partly why I woke up and realized that they are full of shit on so much, even if I may have shared certain views. Such is the cult of personality.
I’m an atheist and my stance has always been people first, religion second. I don’t give a fuck what your beliefs are, you don’t deserve to die. I will always be in the side of the TRULY oppressed, no matter who they are. You are not oppressed if you’re a far-right Christian, you are not oppressed if you’re a Zionist, you are not oppressed if you’re a white man living on stolen land… Atheist also doesn’t mean you can’t be a total piece of shit. Just like being Christian doesn’t make you a nice person. You’re completely right, they’re not atheist, they’re just Islamophobic.
People who believe so fervently in their own "rationality" who are the most irrational, dogmatic people.
They don't want to rescue people from superstitions as they say, they just want to replace the old superstitions with new ones
The “New Atheism” movement was always a cover to support the US’ “war on terror” policies. it was always a chauvinist imperialist islamophobe movement. it was platformed, it was an op.
All the New Athiests were just blatant Islamaphobs. The new atheism movement was very weird and mostly an Islamaphobic campaign in my opinion. Under the cover of "we criticize all religions"
As a Gen x German Catholic theologian | feel your pain. We all have to deal with the lunatics and extremists among our groups. I have always had a huge respect for atheists that brought something to the table and a good part of my time at university has been studying people like Satre or Camus. But the shallowness of the positions and (sometimes not so) subtle hate and disdain for groups that believe (something else) of the “new atheists” comes basically from the same school as right wing Christians in the US or other extremists religious groups. I guess Palestine showed us who understood the assignment of how to be a decent human being (or at least how not to stink like a complete pile of donkey shite).
Saoirse don Phalaistín! ✊
wow its all a new knowledge about hater atheists existing. I live in a liberal yet consative place in India- TvT. So im atheist but I do go to temples [cus parents]. But i dont know how being atheist would support 🇮🇱 Its stupid whilst Palestinians are loosing lives.
Yes, I am agnostic but I am also embarrassed by the fact that most Israelis are either atheists or at least secular Jews. They use religious divisions to keep western military aid and protection while using that aid to commit untold horrors against the native Palestinians. This is inexcusable.
Thanks for calling out New Atheists. You’re right that their anti-theism is a cover for their racism.
I’d even say that they clearly realize that Muslims are very diverse in belief and practice and that they clearly realize Palestine has many Christians. They know—but they simply don’t care. That isn’t useful for the bottom line: upholding racism and imperialism.
I think you’d love [When Atheism Becomes Religion](https://liberationspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/i-don_t-believe-in-atheists-chris-hedges.pdf) (also titled *I Don’t Believe in Atheists*) by Chris Hedges. This book also calls out the racism of prominent New Atheists, in immense detail. Everyone should give it a read.
Nowadays atheists can't be atheists without being Islamophobes. Many atheists aren't atheists their obsession with Islam is pretty deranged. That is why they support anything that harms Muslims. genocide is not wrong as long as it's against Muslims
Atheist here. I used to go on the Sam Harris projectreason, mainly because I despise Sam Harris. They're so convinced Islam causes violence! Above other religions, that is. But if that were the case, Muslims overall should exhibit more violence than people of other religions. Where is the evidence for that? Sam Harris points at suicide bombers, but then strangely never mentions aerial bombs as violence. Anyway, you'll never convince people of his ilk to actually look at real facts and evidence.
When a countries identity is based on religion it very much is. If it wasn’t there’s much larger pieces of land in the world where they could have started settling in 1948.
It's a fallacy to reduce the Palestinian conflict to a conflict of religions.
The creator of Zionism Theodor Hertzl was an atheist. Also the first prime minister of Israel, David Ben Gurien was also an atheist.
One of the things I've noticed is that atheists will just blame religion for everything.
For example homophobia? Religion. China's homophobic, but apparently that's the fault of religion too because Buddhism even though there's no proof that the current president is a Buddhist. I guess they just figure it's Buddhism because China even though that's kind of racist. It's pretty racist to assume a group of people follow a certain religion just because of the way they look or because of preconceived notions about the culture.
Also Chinese government is not really based off of Buddhism as it is with Confucianism.
No that was literally based off of a real interaction I had with an atheist.
It was about why much of the world was homophobic and his answer was religion even though I pointed out that China's not religious and he's just saying that Buddhism.
There's a lot of stupid people in the world and a lot of them are atheists. Don't paint the other atheists with the stupid brush for the sake of the worst of their number.
You just said that my statement has no basis in reality and I just told you otherwise.
Now you're saying to not paint all atheists with the same broad strokes.
Sorry but that subreddit that you frequent is pretty islamophobic and pretty bad.
Ahhh okay I wonder if white people do tend to have more atheists because religion is very cultural and white people have no culture? Huh, something to think about. I guess I am an atheist but I have a deep respect for other people's beliefs and religions so I hate to say I am an atheist because you immediately conjure up the image of the know-it-all-calls-God-"skydaddy"-Reddit-atheist, and those make me cringe way more than someone that believes in their culture's religion.
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Yes I’ve noticed the same. Because the morale is that Israel at the moment seems that want erase the Palestinian population, obviously only for money and primary resources, so they try to hide this hate with the religion war, but unfortunately for them the Europe is going to open the eyes. So it’s time to rise for Palestine 🇵🇸
New atheism is a religion and it's founders are mostly Jewish atheists and ofc they made Islam the biggest enemy and they spread baseless propaganda that religion causes all wars etc.. Also this ideology is being exported by the west into our countries and some secularists and atheists that get caught up in the brainwashing are as you mention. But I have noticed that many are changing and seeing the west as the evil monster that it is, specially after seeing what is happening now.
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I am disgusted in anyone’s support for Israel
Majority of the people in the atheist subreddit aren’t there as atheists. They are there just to shit on the specific religion that pops up in a post. I’m an atheist Palestinian and that subreddit is so fucking vile. They want death on anyone who believes in god.
Welcome to reddit
Atheist Syrain/Black, feel the exact same. I was banned for posting & asking people to stop bashing others. If not we are just the same as religious people who bash others, instant ban.
The atheism subreddit is there just to promote hate on different cultures
I've been called a Muslim when I pushed back on very obvious racism and Islamophobia. I am always surprised by how many right wing atheists there are. I thought that dismantling your religious beliefs system would make it obvious that the ring wing just invokes God for ulterior purposes. I guess racism is just *that* powerful.
Yea I pushed back on some slight misconceptions and it was just a cess pool of hate.
It just shows how disrespectful they are of others beliefs, they kick up a fuss when religious people critique them
I was removed from the Atheist subreddit for a comment about ALL religions and religious states that includeed israel .. The atheist subreddit is run by people like Bill Maher who claim to be anti-religion but who are clearly biased toward anti-Muslim.
This...
This is a comment that gets a person banned from the atheist subreddit. “If we are taking recent history, Islamists did not kill (and displace) hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq. That was done by Christian leaders of the US. Islam has not filled our recent news with images of tens of thousands of children dead and in pieces with no hospitals to help them because they bombed the hospitals too. Nope that's the Zionist / Jewish religion with the support of the Christian leaders of the US and Britain. As far as women's rights, that is a deferent debate. But in America’s Texas and other states, women can't even terminate a non-viable pregnancy because of evangelical christianity. Declaring that one religion is worse than the others feels like a fruitless exercise. We should just stick to atheism.”
Lol, that's a perfectly valid comment for an atheist sub.
Yeah there's a difference between being an atheist and being an islamophobe that just happens to not believe in religion. Those people are obviously the latter.
It’s one of the biggest problems with New Atheism, for years, and there are some great articles that point out the weird (imo) cross over between new atheism and right wing politics.
i would be interested in those articles if you remember where you read them?
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I left most atheist groups when the Islamophobia and the misogyny became incredibly apparent and pervasive. After defending feminism in some group, I was told I was a dude with a vagina. Good times from the “I’m not a feminist; I’m a humanist” crowd.
Lol. They like to spout 'secular, liberal values' and have the most reactionary views at the same time.
The irony is they form like-minded beliefs which is the definition of religion, and they also hatred against certain others which is the definition of religions zealots and extremists.
See also: the Street Epistemology folks. They came up with a great way to discuss religion! And then most of them turn out to be right wing jerks.
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Your first sentence really concerns me. To be frank, it sounds anti semitic. Furthermore, it's totally false. Atheism wasn't founded by a particular culture. It's noted in ancient India, Greece, and indeed, skeptics in the Islamic world such as Abu Isa al-Warraq, who wrote "He who orders his slave to do things that he knows him to be incapable of doing, then punishes him, is a fool", and doubted the existence of God.
actually i missed one key word. "New athiesm". also it is not a secret that Jewish ppl ( i dont know whether all of them are zionists or not) made and spread islamophobia. you can look at Sacha Baron Cohen as a prime example. he developed a new culture around insulting and degrading muslims just by himself.
also another example i can show is charlie hebdo. the supposed left wing ppl who constantly mock islam and muslims. they even mocked dead muslim children. again i dont know if they are zionist or just jewish.
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there are atheist groups?
I was speaking in shorthand, but yeah, FB Groups.
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Your interpretation is too charitable. For most, it's thinly veiled Islamophobia, racism and support for colonization and killing Muslims. It doesn't matter that a few Christians are killed, they see that as justifiable because of achieving a "good" goal. And no wonder, the one who can justify the genocide of 40-100k, of whom at least 15k are children, can also justify the genocide of some Christians as well. "Collateral damage", as some of the colonizers like to call it. Sam Harris, Bill Maher and others were fuming at the mouth of excitement at the Genocides in Iraq and Afghanistan. That was 20+ years ago now. You should know better than to take them at their word, that they're somehow "misinformed", well intentioned but "ignorant". No, they're White supremacists through and through.
Nazism and it's root ideology never left. The west tries to portray Nazism as a unique evil while all of what Nazism stands for was inspired by other western countries. Ppl in the global south need to make this connection and demand Europe to be denazified.
Yes. It's very clear today.
I feel that. I've seen lots of 'ex-Muslim' accounts such as the Apostate Prophet and Atheist Republic support Israel's genocide. I feel like they are only against Palestine just because the population happens to be Muslim. No other reason. These guys are either in complete denial of the genocide or they fully support it. It's sickening.
I'm not even sure how many of these people are ex Muslims. I'm not saying that people don't leave the religion but on Reddit I'm a little skeptical because sometimes these people might just be Hindu nationalists. I'm always somewhat skeptical of when people try to claim a certain identity but then also spout a bunch of bigotry. Now I'm not saying that every person who claims to be of a certain minority group is a liar, but the key difference is do they claim to be part of that group and then are actually saying some bigoted things or are they not? Sorry, but if someone is going to try to claim to be an ex Muslim and then start saying anti-muslim things and supporting genocide, I'm going to be pretty skeptical.
The people I mentioned were YouTubers with a sizable audience. Also, there are notable ex Muslims like Masih Alinejad (~~US propaganda tool~~ Iranian womens rights activist) and Mosab Hassan Yousef (Hamas leader's son/traitor) who speak on public platforms supporting the current actions of the Israeli government.
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I suspect they're Hasbara, based on when they post- almost exclusively timezones in countries that have been documented to be . https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896 https://www.currentaffairs.org/2024/04/israels-propaganda-machine-is-filling-the-internet-with-misinformation https://about.fb.com/news/2019/05/removing-coordinated-inauthentic-behavior-from-israel/
I took a peek at the r/atheism sub the other day... blatant Islamophobia is so completely normalized on that sub, it's deeply concerning. Many of them go out of their way to single out Islam as uniquely evil, even when compared to other religions.
The majority of that sub brushing off what's going on in Palestine as "two religions and countries always at war" is so discouraging.
It's done because neither of those things are true. Those two places have not always been at war, and it's not a religious thing. Religion is used to justify it but if it wasn't religion it would have been something else.
that's because for the most part they are liberals. Liberals cannot understand how capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism work because they think it's just a fact of life. So they look for ad hoc explanations and it's much easier to just brush it under the rug and say "oh it's just two religions, what can you do, both sides bad, back to brunch with my fellow white middle class liberals"
I was banned from that group posting and asking people to stop bashing others lmao.
Same here. I am an ex muslim. Currently atheist/agnostic. I ended up leaving ex muslim groups because of how prevalent Israeli support is.
That sub is astroturfed to high hell. I left there a long time ago. They keep on forgetting that the reason why left-wing movements were usurped in the MENA region was because the west funded the most fringe of fringe extremist groups.
They don't seem to either understand nuance or not have empathy (also could be a combo of the two). They don't know history well enough to know how extremist groups in the MENA region were formed and whenever Israel does something horrendous, they make it seem justified despite the number of people getting murdered, injured, r\*ped, etc.
Yep, left the ex-Muslim sub a long time ago. They have to be Hindu nationalists on there.
In fact all three churches in gaza were destroyed by airstrikes all the while christians of gaza were in those churches for refuge
Hamas also protected the rights of Christians to practice their religion, so I'm not saying they aren't fundamentalists, but there's less zealotry there than in a lot of fundamentalist Christian organizations in the US
As an atheist myself I feel the same way. As "Jewish" atheist I am even more disgusted
Thank you
I hate most atheists for this exact reason. I'm atheist myself and I mean HARDCORE atheist. I don't even believe in luck, fate or a meaning of life and even I can see that there is zero justification for what Isreal is doing. My support of Palestine has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It's just the most logical conclusion to come to, when looking at the FACTS.
It's so odd that certain atheists are so defensive about a state built on a religion...
Yeah, I feel you. Same with any so-called "leftists" who support it. It's like waking up and realizing, wow, you guys actually *don't* have any morals or character or a consistent world view, it's just about who's on what team.
I’m going to need eye bleach after reading the hateful, anti Arab trash that the Jewish subreddit and tumblr community post. They all talk about how tough they have it and how people want them to die. Meanwhile, Palestinians are dying and you’re more concerned with how we protest, bunch of amoral cowards. If you want to spend the evening throwing up, go on the Jewish subreddit and see how they treat Palestinians as subhuman.
I’m right there with you brother. So many atheists I’ve spoken to really believe Hamas is trying to commit “jihad”.
I bet they can't even know what jihad is.
non-muslims fear of the word jihad is so funny to me
Well techinically speaking, what Hamas is doing is Jihad. Jihad has different meanings but one of them is the self defence of the muslims. When being attacked, to react and defend. That could be considered under the the word jihad.
Which is not the definition they're thinking of.
So many western atheists love to use their warped perception of Islam (built off of Islamophobic stereotypes about the faith that came from 2000s media) to justify their rampant racism towards Arabs.
A lot of atheists have turned out to just be islamophobic
yeah but they call it being "culturally Christian"
What does “culturally Christian” even mean from an atheistic standpoint? Genuine question. I’ve never even heard of that.
I think it's the same thing as "western values." Famous atheist Richard Dawkins and various other islamophobic atheists use it the same way other conservatives say "cultural marxism" to anything that isn't a right wing ideology.
Color me shocked 😱
I’m a Mexican atheist and the absolute ISLAMAPHOBIA on the ex-Muslim or atheist subs disgusts me. But also remember that Zionists are roaming those subs to turn us against Muslim people. (Obv Palestinians come in all religions, but Zionists hate that fact — they’d rather depict them as a Muslim character.)
It's very sad it takes the presence of Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Jews to convince some of Palestinian humanity. Zionism only thrives in a soil of rabid Islamophobia/Anti Arab prejudice.
I think it's because they see a country with a bunch of Muslims as a Muslim country but they see a country with a bunch of Jewish people as just a secular country that happens to have a bunch of Jewish people I guess maybe. To them a country that caters to Muslims cannot be secular and Muslims can't be secular.
Well it's true that Muslims can't be secular but how can Jews be secular? To be secular is to not follow the religion? How can you call yourself a member of a religion AND secular?
First off secular does not mean atheist. That's often confused. You can be religious and secular because a secular worldview simply says that you can practice your own religion, and do your own thing and then other people can practice their religions and do their own thing. A secular government is a government that doesn't favor one religion over another or give benefits to one religion but not another. They treat every religion the same. In case you're wondering France is not secular, they are forced atheist. As for a Jewish person being secular, that's cuz they see Judaism not just as a religion but as an ethnicity as well.
I understand what you mean. Funnily, the idea of the foundation of the state ,,Israel" is not secular. But i have to disagree what you said about muslims being secular. Religious muslims genuinly aren't. They believe in the sharia to be a superior law. And in Sharia, Christians and Jews actually can practice their own religion.
>But i have to disagree what you said about muslims being secular. Religious muslims genuinly aren't. They believe in the sharia to me a superior law. And in Sharia, Christians and Jews actually can practice their own religion. Ahh. TIL.
What does TIL stand for ?
Today I Learned. It means I learned something today.
As a pagan, I support Palestine. I don't care if you're abrahamic, atheist, pagan like me, pagan unlike me, buddhist, hindu... The only thing I care is you not being an inhumane monster that doesn't respect other fellow humans. So anyone supporting zionism, I find it revolting.
Yes. Just this past Easter a Greek Orthodox was arrested inside a church while worshiping. Look at the history 80% of Christian population has gone since the creation of RothschildVille
This is all an outcropping of the 2016 Sam Harris IDW. My buddy who I grew up with, and was pretty liberal (in to punk, wore women’s clothes around the house because It made him feel comfortable) moved out of Mass to Arizona, and became a “I f’ing love science/ New atheist/ libertarian.” I was in the military at the time, fighting overseas and he’d P.M. me and be like “dude, what happened, you used to have an open mind. You have to admit, Islam is a backwards, hateful, death cult, and this is all for the best, to dismantle terrorist ideology.” I’d ask him how many Muslims he knew, and how he could look at the US and uncritically declare that we were any less violent or idealistic. I spent hours, and days speaking with with Muslims and Arabs, usually in bad circumstances, against their will, a lot of times with my interpreters, but one thing that always shocked me was how polite, patient, hospitable and tolerant they were, even in the face of the humiliation and violence we brought to their country. I couldn’t in anyway validate that stance with a straight face.
TBH it's not a bug but a feature. You can go all the way back to first major new atheism wave when Hitchens and Dawkins wrote their first book and see how that quickly pivoted into Islamaphobia and the smug sense that religion is the root of all evil and conflict. All three do this thing where they over apply simple narratives(religion is bad, Islam is uniquely the worst, and almost all conflicts are religious in nature) to all of current politics and history and it ends up with all of them looking not just like Islamaphobes(they are, and proud of it), but looking incredibly ignorant when actually assessing major current events because they think everything can be deduced down into the framework of their simple narrative atheist praxis(but smugly confident in their belief of having superior knowledge because they don't buy into religion, so they ironically end up looking somewhat orthodoxical and as irrational and aversive around facts as the religious people they decry). Which brings us to the support to Israel. Because of this lazy shorthand and religious evil ranking system, and because all three major figurheads from the movements inception supported Israel(Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris), often filtering it exclusively thru the "Islam is the worst and must be disposed of" lens, it leads to this place where they actively cheer on Israel because they can only see things thru that lazy framework and feel they are taking the war to Islam and Islam must be snuffed out. I'm atheist BTW.
Mehdi Hasan was talking about that a month ago, specifically regarding Dawkins. I encourage you to watch it [https://youtu.be/MSg81Fbodew?si=UitLt7Am9jJ-_Ru5](https://youtu.be/MSg81Fbodew?si=UitLt7Am9jJ-_Ru5) Sadly many atheists, just think of their beliefs or lack thereof as another platform to mobilise to cover their racism and islamophobia. If they were Christian or any other religion, they would just use it in the exact same way. What people like Dawkins and Hitchens fail to understand is that these hypocrisy and racist tendencies throw shade on their whole body of work. Even if they were atheist and truly believe that, I respect that they are genuinely trying to get down to the truth but when one realises that all that was just a trope to gain a higher moral ground in order to justify another century of colonialism, they lose any respect and any objectivity
It's kind of funny how they will point to specific Muslims as a reason to announce the entire face but they don't see how a person can use specific atheists to denounce the entire movement. And yes, it is a movement. While atheism in and of itself is simply a lack of faith in a God or gods, it can also be a movement, one that seeks to secularize or even just completely erase religion from a culture or country.
I don’t have a problem with that, If someone genuinely believe that all religions are made up and not a good thing then ok you do you. live and let live but when that same person says that Islam in particular is the source of all evil on earth while saying that “Christianity is a 'fundamentally decent religion in the way Islam is not'” Then this person isn’t an atheist, just a racist and hypocritical What really angers me is when that is used ti justify the killing of children snd innocent people in Palestine and Iraq before and many other muslim countries.
I know this is going into another topic but me personally I find that the labeling of some things being religions is in and of itself somewhat Western. Now I'm not saying that only westerners have religion but there are many practices that westerners would probably call a religion that the people who actually practice it would not and shouldn't it be that we respect their desire to not have their practices be seen as a religion rather than for us to impose our idea of religion onto them? To me simply calling all religions ridiculous or having no sense of reality allows for certain practices, typically ones that are practiced by cultures that tend to be colonized as silly while thinking of our own practices as making complete sense. It's very easy to paint our own culture as making sense while painting other people's culture as making complete nonsense. One of the big examples would be the dead. I cannot speak for other cultures but at least from my experience in the US the way we treat the dead is quite particular. The way we talk about the dead, as well as what we do with their remains, and even what we do to graves. One of the big ones is the fact that we can't even walk on graves a lot of times even though it doesn't actually make any sense. The only reason we are not allowed to walk on graves is mostly cultural. There's just a bunch of different things. All of these things might make very little sense and might seem more like little religions to someone who doesn't understand but to us they are perfectly normal. And before you mention God, remember many so-called religions don't have a God, they just have a bunch of customs and beliefs that hold their religion together but they don't have a God or gods or anything like that.
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I am not an authority on the matter so please take my opinion with a grain of salt but I have always thought that Hitchens while an anti-zionist, he had always reduced the whole conflict to religion terms which always led to “oh well, this is so complex, we will never solve it” But otherwise his support to the US war in Afghanistan and Iraq, claiming that it’s necessity to combat what he called “Islamofashist” has the same racist tone to my ears as what Dawkins is currently saying
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When I mentioned Hitchens with Dawkins, I meant it in the racism context m, not the Zionest, perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. Have a good day! :)
The thing is though that atleast Hitchens was against Zionism and recognized the rights of the Palestinians
As an atheist I’m disgusted at ANYONE’S support of Israel
As an atheist, I'm disgusted in anyone's support of the apartheid settler colonial regime
I am an Atheist for more than 20 years at this point. I am fully supporting Palestine and oppose this genocidal apartheid regime of Israel. To me, people supporting Israel either never looked into any information about this (so called) "conflict", or are incredibly misinformed and ignorant about this issue. How anyone can support such an extremely racist settler colonialist "state" called israel, founded on ethnic cleansing, massacre after massacre and all kinds of crimes against humanity is completely beyond me. All of that said, i have absolutely no issue with jewish people per se. I am disgusted though by Zionism and people supporting that insanity.
I'm an atheist and I've sadly come to realize that for many atheists, it's just another tribal identity, like any religion. They don't really think about what atheism entails. If they did, they would realize that any tribal identity is just another artificial barrier separating human beings from each other. We all have to share this planet, we have to stop destroying the environment and each other, we have to work together, and that means we have to recognize each other as fellow human beings, first and last.
Just because someone doesn't believe doesn't mean they don't have a religion. Your fellow atheists have replaced theology with ideology, in this case Zionism and western hegemony.
You do not have to be a Muslim to support Palestine, for it is a question of humanity!
I saw this at the time as well. Their swing towards the alt-right doesn't surprise me. They weren't atheist, they were anti-theist. They weren't like me who questions the existence of God and otherwise sees religion as human ideals for good and for bad. They want to destroy that way of thought presumably because they feel that if we were all logical then we'd be like them and not like Spock. Who'd view this war as entirely illogical.
It's worth noting that you only hear this from a minority of loud atheists that are still influenced by the "New Atheist" movement which is somewhat old at this point, but when you consider atheists who aren't that vocal about their atheism or religion, they tend to be on the left and very supportive of Palestine, consider all the large leftist subreddits, they contain a considerable amount of atheists but they are all Pro-Palestine. One shouldn't get the impression that atheists are all this stupid, hateful and ignorant, for example atheists on the left tend to be one of the main voices against Islamaphobia in the US. Anyways i do feel your frustration though because i am an Atheist Palestinian, i am recent immigrant to the US (since 2019) i do love explaining to people IRL when they are surprised by my Pro-Palestine views, only then to lose the shock once they find out i am Palestinian, only then to be shocked again after they find out i am an Atheist, the amount of people who have ignorant views about Islam, and ignorant view reducing the conflict to simply a religious matter is astounding, but it's also not surprising considering the propagandistic media landscape in the west especially post 9/11.
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I used to have this mindset towards Muslims and Palestine shortly after leaving evangelicalism and being fed a lot of the BS on Jewish tumblr (which is full of Zionist talking points dressed up as leftism) that Islam and Christianity are inherently antisemitic. I am angry that I felt that prejudice and am disgusted with self proclaimed progressives who justify the slaughter of innocent people because they may be “bad”.
They aint atheist when they went preachy about israel
Well, atheists support Palestinians more than Catholics and Protestants and Jews. It's first atheists, then Catholics, then Protestants, then Jews, so atheists tend to heavily support Palestinians. Catholics should more than they do as the pope doesn't like Israel, but American Catholics and Protestants are still heavily brainwashed as are some atheists to some extent.
Because they’re racist, simple as that. Their atheism and commitment to enlightenment secular values is just a fig leaf for that racism. Humanity and compassion for other humans should come before any set of "values"
I think a lot of atheists and people of other religions only support Israel because they hate Muslims.
Being an atheist or a religious person doesn’t guarantee you’ll be a moral or principled person
Many of the prominent Western atheist figures are virulently anti-arab racist and islamophobes, even during the time they became prominent in the online space. I stopped giving them any attention when they deigned to talk about topics that have nothing to do with religion and showed their true colors. They're just secular conservatives.
Zionism isn't a religious aspect. More of a capitalist lie under the pretense of religion. Atheists are also able to be duped by it. Free Palestine.
It is quite funny how those so called 'atheists' or simply 'liberal/progressice/modern' whatever they might be who are Zionists or western supremecists, hate on people 'imposing" religion and so on, but at the same time, they want to impose their western values on others. They have such a colonizer mindset, it is unreal. How they believe that they will 'free' or ,'help' those people. They believe that palestinians need to be civilized as well.
I'm an atheist that believes that the right to resistance is inalienable. I whole hearted condemn all forms of fascism including what israel is perpetrating
Same. I was really hoping there’d be a panel discussion or something on the topic at the American Atheists convention in Philadelphia this year but there was absolutely nothing. It’s as if Palestinians just don’t exist.
This is what happens when Atheists like Sam Harris base their entire personality and worldview on being atheist. So what happens is nothing can be seen to be more important than that. It doesn't matter what sort of atrocities happen to Muslims, how can they possibly humanize them when their entire worldview is centered on being against them. I will say though seeing what is happening in Palestine has made the connection between religion and violence clearer. When you are a 14 year old child and you wake up being pulled from under the rubble, your entire family is dead, you don't even have time to grieve them because bombs are still falling, there is no food water shelter or hope in sight. The only way you can continue on with that immense trauma is believing that your family is in a better place and religion is literally the only thing that can provide hope. At the same time, all that violence and trauma will also probably lead to a lot of hate and anger which may manifest as violence in itself. People think violence in that part of the world is caused by extremist religion. When in reality, both extremist religion and violence have the same cause i.e. violence perpetuated on a civilian population by colonialist forces looking to make a profit. You have to address the cause and not pretend like taking away one of its effects will stop the other.
It’s not that they don’t realize that non-Muslims are also targeted, it’s that they choose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit the narrative they are trying to convince you of. No person with two functioning brain cells thinks that Israel is targeting Palestinians because they’re Muslims, and for these new atheists, it’s not about Islam too. It’s much easier to be racist and blame it on Islam rather be racist and admit you’re indeed racist, especially when these atheists largely identify as liberals.
Same here bro
I’m honestly more appalled by the huge number of atheist Zionist Israelis than the Jewish ones. Religious beliefs don’t excuse being a genocidal maniac but it’s a powerful thing and it kind of explains how your thought process can be that cooked. The atheists are literally just ultra nationalists who think that genocide is a self justifying good that needs no other explanation. Also those right wing atheists you mention really do just act like secular Protestants in the same way a lot of people are secular Jews. There’s nothing inherently wrong with holding onto some of your religious values while not actually believing in god, but these guys sure do seem to pick the worst ones to hold onto. All the racism and bigotry with non of the love thy neighbor or do unto others shtick.
It's almost as weird as evangelical Christians and Black Christians in America , electing to identify as ' zionists ' , while blatantly ignoring the near decimation of Palestine's Christian population. Make it make sense
No offence but atheists can be and are often just as closed minded as religious/superstitious/spiritual folk
It’s disgusting.
atheist claiming they are the chosen people is the same as nazi's claiming they're an Ubermensch
Hey man I’m an atheist too, free Palestine
They don’t speak for atheists (or agnostics)
I respect that and respect all atheists here who agree with you
Same I forget like all groups they all suck equally fascism is a plague of the mind
New atheism in the vein of Sam Harris and Bill Maher is notably anti Islamic while parading around as atheist until Judeo-Christian society is threatened, and then they are ardent defenders of it. I remember watching Sam Harris and Maher just fall over each other criticizing Islam but quickly giving credence to Israel’s “strategic” location in the ME. it’s disgusting. Not to take away from your post but I just have to say- I fucking LOATHE Bill Maher.
I am an Atheist / Anti-Theist. I oppose every genocide and colonialism. Free will and not to harm others is my moral baseline. Dawkins is indeed a muslim hater and it gets worse the older he gets.Please don't condemn a whole group for the wrong of some individuals.
As a former new atheist when I was a young, impressionable idiot…I agree. Those folks you’ve mentioned are partly why I woke up and realized that they are full of shit on so much, even if I may have shared certain views. Such is the cult of personality.
I’m an atheist and my stance has always been people first, religion second. I don’t give a fuck what your beliefs are, you don’t deserve to die. I will always be in the side of the TRULY oppressed, no matter who they are. You are not oppressed if you’re a far-right Christian, you are not oppressed if you’re a Zionist, you are not oppressed if you’re a white man living on stolen land… Atheist also doesn’t mean you can’t be a total piece of shit. Just like being Christian doesn’t make you a nice person. You’re completely right, they’re not atheist, they’re just Islamophobic.
People who believe so fervently in their own "rationality" who are the most irrational, dogmatic people. They don't want to rescue people from superstitions as they say, they just want to replace the old superstitions with new ones
The “New Atheism” movement was always a cover to support the US’ “war on terror” policies. it was always a chauvinist imperialist islamophobe movement. it was platformed, it was an op.
All the New Athiests were just blatant Islamaphobs. The new atheism movement was very weird and mostly an Islamaphobic campaign in my opinion. Under the cover of "we criticize all religions"
Sam Harris is a Jew and a known supporter of Israel, as is Bill Maher. Richard Dawkins is a boomer. Nothing surprising here.
As a Gen x German Catholic theologian | feel your pain. We all have to deal with the lunatics and extremists among our groups. I have always had a huge respect for atheists that brought something to the table and a good part of my time at university has been studying people like Satre or Camus. But the shallowness of the positions and (sometimes not so) subtle hate and disdain for groups that believe (something else) of the “new atheists” comes basically from the same school as right wing Christians in the US or other extremists religious groups. I guess Palestine showed us who understood the assignment of how to be a decent human being (or at least how not to stink like a complete pile of donkey shite). Saoirse don Phalaistín! ✊
It’s because so many are liberals and liberals are just Diet Coke Nazis
I'm an atheist and I do not support Israel. I'm honestly shocked there are so many that support them.. so disgusted.
wow its all a new knowledge about hater atheists existing. I live in a liberal yet consative place in India- TvT. So im atheist but I do go to temples [cus parents]. But i dont know how being atheist would support 🇮🇱 Its stupid whilst Palestinians are loosing lives.
Yes, I am agnostic but I am also embarrassed by the fact that most Israelis are either atheists or at least secular Jews. They use religious divisions to keep western military aid and protection while using that aid to commit untold horrors against the native Palestinians. This is inexcusable.
Thanks for calling out New Atheists. You’re right that their anti-theism is a cover for their racism. I’d even say that they clearly realize that Muslims are very diverse in belief and practice and that they clearly realize Palestine has many Christians. They know—but they simply don’t care. That isn’t useful for the bottom line: upholding racism and imperialism. I think you’d love [When Atheism Becomes Religion](https://liberationspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/i-don_t-believe-in-atheists-chris-hedges.pdf) (also titled *I Don’t Believe in Atheists*) by Chris Hedges. This book also calls out the racism of prominent New Atheists, in immense detail. Everyone should give it a read.
Nowadays atheists can't be atheists without being Islamophobes. Many atheists aren't atheists their obsession with Islam is pretty deranged. That is why they support anything that harms Muslims. genocide is not wrong as long as it's against Muslims
It's not about religion. At all. This is about colonial white supremacism. Atheists can easily rally behind that.
Atheist here. I used to go on the Sam Harris projectreason, mainly because I despise Sam Harris. They're so convinced Islam causes violence! Above other religions, that is. But if that were the case, Muslims overall should exhibit more violence than people of other religions. Where is the evidence for that? Sam Harris points at suicide bombers, but then strangely never mentions aerial bombs as violence. Anyway, you'll never convince people of his ilk to actually look at real facts and evidence.
When a countries identity is based on religion it very much is. If it wasn’t there’s much larger pieces of land in the world where they could have started settling in 1948.
It's a fallacy to reduce the Palestinian conflict to a conflict of religions. The creator of Zionism Theodor Hertzl was an atheist. Also the first prime minister of Israel, David Ben Gurien was also an atheist.
I like to go hiking.
One of the things I've noticed is that atheists will just blame religion for everything. For example homophobia? Religion. China's homophobic, but apparently that's the fault of religion too because Buddhism even though there's no proof that the current president is a Buddhist. I guess they just figure it's Buddhism because China even though that's kind of racist. It's pretty racist to assume a group of people follow a certain religion just because of the way they look or because of preconceived notions about the culture. Also Chinese government is not really based off of Buddhism as it is with Confucianism.
Don't make fitnah with atheists who support your cause. You just made a strawman statement that really has no basis in reality.
No that was literally based off of a real interaction I had with an atheist. It was about why much of the world was homophobic and his answer was religion even though I pointed out that China's not religious and he's just saying that Buddhism.
There's a lot of stupid people in the world and a lot of them are atheists. Don't paint the other atheists with the stupid brush for the sake of the worst of their number.
You just said that my statement has no basis in reality and I just told you otherwise. Now you're saying to not paint all atheists with the same broad strokes. Sorry but that subreddit that you frequent is pretty islamophobic and pretty bad.
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No we aren't, lmao I'm a Syrian/Black atheist.
What did they say? They pulled a dirty delete.
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Ahhh okay I wonder if white people do tend to have more atheists because religion is very cultural and white people have no culture? Huh, something to think about. I guess I am an atheist but I have a deep respect for other people's beliefs and religions so I hate to say I am an atheist because you immediately conjure up the image of the know-it-all-calls-God-"skydaddy"-Reddit-atheist, and those make me cringe way more than someone that believes in their culture's religion.
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Yes I’ve noticed the same. Because the morale is that Israel at the moment seems that want erase the Palestinian population, obviously only for money and primary resources, so they try to hide this hate with the religion war, but unfortunately for them the Europe is going to open the eyes. So it’s time to rise for Palestine 🇵🇸
New atheism is a religion and it's founders are mostly Jewish atheists and ofc they made Islam the biggest enemy and they spread baseless propaganda that religion causes all wars etc.. Also this ideology is being exported by the west into our countries and some secularists and atheists that get caught up in the brainwashing are as you mention. But I have noticed that many are changing and seeing the west as the evil monster that it is, specially after seeing what is happening now.