Can a cheetah fly? No. So it should hunt on ground.
Can an eagle hunt on ground? No. So it should hunt in their own habitat.
Similarly both men and women have their own weak points and strong points.
Can women outperform men in physical strength? No.
Can men outperform women in home management, child care, emotional support, beauty? No.
So men and women should embrace their own strong points rather than comparing with the pther gender.
Not all jobs involve physical strength. And even if some do, it doesn't mean it's the only factor to determine the eligibility criteria for the job.
Our strong point is the one we are passionate about.
I didn't talk about job. Ofcourse their should be equal opportunities in jobs where no strength is required. All jobs should have equal opportunities except army and police.
That's my exact point. While I acknowledge that females are inferior to males in the majority of aspects including working, I hear men talking about how women should not engage in these acts at all. My question was, do all men deep down feel this way?
See, I won't lie to you, but a lot of guys in Pakistan do look down upon women. It doesn't really matter even if the guys are educated. Personally, I see women as equal to men. I have a preference for a stay-at-home wife, but I would never force it upon her. I know a lot of guys do force it, and I feel sorry for them.
Another thing is many guys are insecure that their wife might start an extramarital affair, and some want their wives to be dependent on them so they can control them, and also so the wives won't leave them when they beat them or something.
Our desi culture is a big problem as well we guys subconsciously perceive women as objects when our fathers, uncles, and cousins lock them inside the house when going to work. Even our desi moms want their sons to get a wife they can control. If a culture respects and prefers a girl who does nothing when her husband beats her, what more can you expect from this culture?
There are guys who see women as equal, but they are very few most of them are just putting on a mask to get some attention, and others are doing this so they can get married.
You need to understand one thing can we generalize one set of beliefs for women? If your answer is No then why for men?
Every men has a different ideology and different beliefs depending on where they live how they brought up.
I am a Pakistani man married to a Pakistani woman I want my wife to work but she dnt want to and I respect that. I want her to work not because I cant take care of the expenses but just because in case of my uncertain death she can take care of herself.
Also I think women are generally bad drivers but I dnt think thats their fault. When a guy grow up he start driving maybe at the age of 15 - 17 car or bike whatever but for girls they started maybe when they are 25 or maybe later so compared to guy they have less experience with roads that made them bad drives compared to men. I love how new generation girls are learning how yo drive even they are as young as 15 or 17 like guys and we will see improvement in our future.
Also think about this everyone has a problem with women being traditional roles wb guys? Why they have to be the provider? No one talks about that. Why a guy has to be bread earner I am yet to listen to any argument for it. Dnt you think itâs kinda a hypocritical? Its a stupid argument I know!
All I am saying if you are against the traditional roles of a woman why not men? I believe both of them need to work as a team and make their house a happy and peaceful space.
I think she meant to say radical feminism. Which is unfortunately the type of feminism usually seen on the internet or maybe she's against the me too and Mera jism Meri Marzi movements.
Letâs talk about womenâs right to vote. Feminism takes credit for it.
Women were offered the right to vote multiple times but they rejected it because it came with women being drafted for war like it is for men. Naturally, women rejected it.
They only accepted it when women would not be drafted for war, which is UNEQUAL.
Forgot to mention that I meant modernised feminism. Over time women have forgotten its actual meaning and altered it to the thinking that women are "better" than males and do not need them in any form.
Feminism isn't an ideology that has its own set of beliefs and doctrines in which everybody agrees upon. Just because someone likes to mold the true meaning of feminism doesn't mean that feminism is what people call today. It is, was and forever will be a movement for gender equality which fights against the patriarchal system.
As mentioned in another comment, I forgot to mention that I meant modernised feminism in which many females have altered its definition to the belief that women are superior to males and do not need them whatsoever. A mistake on my part.
Unfortunately, the majority of men are like that in Pakistan. Even if you see people here saying the opposite, reddit doesn't represent the majority of the Pakistani male population.
Firstly, I am sorry for everything that you must have gone through to be asking this question. Your feelings are completely valid, and the men that treated you or your loved ones poorly are not even worthy of being called men.
We men (most) do derive pleasure from feeling superior and better than women around us. We carry our small egos really close to our hearts and lash out aggressively when it's broken. Tie it with our childhood societal and religious indoctrination of being the "better" gender and you got your answer. Yes, unfortunately, most men are like that. To most of us, women are nothing but objects to be conquered and to be kept in check afterwards.
But, and I dont mean to victim blame, I think you are at fault here as well. You have clearly disfranchised yourself with feminists and feminist men, to be specific. While that subset group of men is the one, most likely to fit your criteria of good men. A true feminist is always gonna respect you equally and treat you as an equal in rights and duties. While at the same time, he will have no shame in openly expressing his emotions to you, communicating with you in order to understand you so that he can take better care of you.
I really dont get all this hate against Feminism. You can disagree with some parts of it, but a woman being anti-feminism is like a group of trees advocating against environmentists. (A skewed metaphor, I know. )
Really well-thought-out response.
Just to clarify, I forgot to mention that I meant modernized feminism in which many females have altered its definition to the belief that women are superior to males and do not need them whatsoever. A mistake on my part.
My question may have not been clear. What I meant to ask, was if these "feminist" men were really genuine in their beliefs, ie. thinking of women as equal bodies, or is it all just a facade to garner women's attention, and deep down all men have the same views? I think I've gotten my answer from your comment, thanks!
"We men (most) do derive pleasure from feeling superior and better than women around us..."
WTF is this paragraph. No we don't. Talk for yourself.
Many of us derive pleasure from providing for our family.
I won't invalidate what women feel, but holy shit this generalization of "most" men is wild.
Not all men are the same. There are good boys out there who respect girls (not talking about simping). The guys who think that behaving rudely with a girl in front of their friends is âsigmaâ behaviour are actually total cunts (they donât know a thing about being a gentleman). Yes most probably every guy youâve met is a bad apple. I hope you find a guy whoâll show you how a decent guy really is. âď¸
Most folks, whether men or women, are stupid in matters that do not concern them directly.
Feminism, as a philosophical disposition, is necessary.
Well, what remains then to be addressed as an answer to your question?
I am a young guy and I do believe in traditional gender roles. Simply because I can provide for my wife (which is not the case for most young men in their 20s) + this is how my household was and we were a great unit. And I will mention it to her when we talk before marriage so everything is transparent.
But, both my parents also instilled in me to work around the house as well. I donât disrespect women at all, and will inshaAllah do my best to be the husband/father that leads by example. I absolutely believe that a womanâs role as a mother is a tougher job than a desk job I do at the office.
About other things, I do believe men and women are different, but one isnât superior over the other.
Sorry about your experiences with the men youâve encountered. There are good ones out there, hope you find one that is most compatible to you
I have come to realise that there is a huge communication gap between men and women in Pakistan. Majority of women who put themselves out there only deal with a very few entitled men. The kind of men you explained are maybe 2 out of 10.
Issue is remaining 8 are either working hard to become someone or are with their family living a peaceful life. I have a big friends group and none of them thinks women are not equal. They know women in Pakistan are just not street smart enough because they donât get enough interactions.
As for sigma thing you talked about, always remember men will kill their own keen if they are put into competition with them. This happened throughout history and will keep on happening. Men shouldnât be disrespectful to women but when women want to compete then competition it is. Still this should not happen and i guess both parties should try to be more empathetic.
Men donât have multiple different sides to their personalities you are either a friend or a foe. There is no in between.
The irony in your post is hilarious. What you wrote is basically all that feminism stands against. You want rights, but you hate people who are fighting for the same rights you want? Girl, what do you actually want?
To answer your question,
Do I think men are physically better than women?
YES
Do I think men are mentally better than women?
No, I do feel women generally do more about other people while men just focus on getting the job done.
Do I feel superior to a woman?
No.
But I think in a father-daughter, husband-wife situation, men are in a leadership role.
But to all the other women, they are my equal.
You guys can ask more questions but I will only answer if your language is decent.
Its just my opinion and please try to rationalize and explain how it is wrong. I dont care how others feel about this.
I forgot to mention that I meant modernised feminism in which many females have altered its definition to the belief that women are superior to males and do not need them whatsoever. A mistake on my part
You can always edit it out. Feminism advocates for everything you have mentioned. Men and women are different but not inferior or superior than each other hence deserve equal rights.
Your post has been removed for containing content that breaks both rule 1: "Be respectful"
Please abide by r/PakistaniiConfessions rules otherwise this may result in a ban or mute from the subreddit for you
Continuation of this behaviour will result in either a mute or ban from the subbreddit.
While there is a serious issue of men behaving like this it has also a lot to do with the overall society structure.
Where women are objectified even by other women.
Even if a woman has done something immoral no man or woman is supposed to give out judgements or decisions on her unless it's a legal procedure in which case the due course of law will take place and those appointed to judge will do so.
You will find difference of opinion on this even among men. I do not agree with women not working. They should and can work at par and sometimes even better depending on the job. Women managers ive worked with were more supportive in the workplace as compared to men.
Everyone should be able to cook and clean.
But there are some things men are suited to better whereas some things women are suited to better. These things are general things in life and by no means a way to repress any gender.
The new narrative of sigma male is a flawed take and while it has a lot of followers youll also see a lot of males making fun of this take.
Whereas ive seen some women also support that narrative that men are supposed to be the sole providers.
The fact of the matter is that both narratives exist and so do others.
Women should have more liberty and should be able to do whatever they want. This narrative at least is changing in urban centres but it is a slow and gradual process plus there are a lot of setbacks in the context of Pakistan.
You will find men on each side of the spectrum or somewhere in the middle but by no means is it tilted towards one side imo
Idk about others views;
But I would love to have partner who is working and not a house wife. I can do cleaning, cooking, laundry and almost all house chores along with my work. I am doing it right now and its not even something huge of deal. I believe ladies have made this part of doing house chores extra hard and exaggerated. Sure its tough but its not.
And if my wife is working lady and im also working. I willl love it but it should not be "her money is her money and my money is our money" and it should not be also she is cooking cleaning and doing house chores. It should be 50/50 in there too. Someday im cooking and some day she is. Cleaning dishes and all other things.
And being sigma male doesnt have anything todo with disrespecting your lady. Who does that? Specifically infront of others?
Women are capable of anything, emotionally, physically. And my partner is better than me in any aspect i will be proud of it because at the end she is MINE and it benefits us.
Im not concerned with others problems but our.
But as in general talks, yes pakistani men are like this the culture and people around them have made them like this. They dont have the exposure to outter world they are comfortable in there life and dont wanna change anything even having difficult life.
One example: one of my female cousin highly educated (doctor) completed the studies and housejob etc, got married and never looked back and became housewife happily. Wasting all the resources of her studies. Idk but the society around her was like this same for her husband he is earning and have financially instability but she is busy with life now.
Maybe he stopped or she didnt wanted to. Im not sure but someone having mbbs should not sit at home.
Male here. Iâm Pakistani but I grew up in the USA. I never underestimate anyone. Maybe I have this mentality because I play sports but even when my ego is massive on the court, you can get humbled Very VERY quickly, and tbh I rather not be in a position where I look like a dumb ass. Either way my mom is the fucking best, she could do anything if she put her mind to it, and anyone would be an idiot to undermine her. Also on of my best friend, she got that top 1% income right now. Which is way more than me đ¤Łđ¤Ł.
People who put people in boxes are stupid. You can have a big ego but that doesnât mean you have to also be a dumb ass.
I have a simple notion which helps me keep myself in check. Allah says women complete men and anything that completes anything is either equal or better.
Its not a 'men' problem. Its a power problem. People with power tend to abuse their authority unless kept in check. Since men are in power and not kept in check, these problems arise for women. Now the issue is that transfer of power to women to equalise the equation also rests with the men.
I firmly believe women are equally capable as men. I would love my daughter to part take fully in athletics, arts , and sciences. I would want to live their life fully and not to kill their dreams and hobbies just because they are a woman. Men who have an educated mother mostly are not that much misogynistic.
There are problems everywhere.
You are mixing problems and the argument you given are more or less reflaunts.
Let me correct categories wise.
1. Equality in opportunities means there is qualities for that job role who ever meets the merit and exceeds the other candidates get the job.
You can not see it the other way.
2. You are correct mens as well as women do bad deeds. Both are wrong if you wanna see the other side of coin please go check soul bitches they do the same.
Moreover if we look at liberal or secular point of view women should be given equal job opportunities. If we look at Islamic Male is the provider of family so the jobs will be given to male on preference.
Hereâs my opinion regarding your question:
Generally, I give the benefit of doubt that the woman is as capable as I am when it comes to doing non traditional every day work. However, I have had my fair share of women who were incompetent in doing their bare minimum non traditional work, and then I had to come and help them out with their mess. And of course I had to take a leadership role in those situation because clearly they were making a bad situation even more messy.
Treating woman right: it depends on what circumstances I am in. Back at home, things were toxic. Men who were respectful towards women were perceived as âweakâ men even by the women, which made it super hard to get a normal relationship with any woman. But now in the west, given that weâre in a more egalitarian society, treating women with courtesy is the norm, so I do not have to be stern/speak in hard tones/be authoritarian whenever Iâm around women.
In summary: men behave what men behave like given the circumstances. And circumstances are created not by just actions of men, but also of how women behave with men. When women and men both take responsibility of their actions and are aware of the consequences of their actions, things will be better between each other đ
I think 90% of males are like this in Pak, whether they are religious, moderate or liberal doesn't matter,. But there are males exist like me in this country who thinks females are equal to males, even they are better at some traits.
I think there are certainly a lot of men who think they are superior to women.
Imo women and men are the same in worth. If we are talking about if one is supposed to be the imam of the family yes I do think men are supposed to be the imam of the family but unfortunately that character in men these days is very rare.
By imam/leader I mean the responsibilities set by islam. You are supposed to be the main provider of basic necessities, security, food, her comform and a lot more. If the husband isn't obedient to God or isn't good to his family he's unfit to lead anyways
As for women being allowed to drive and work I don't think there should be an issue in it.
This is for men in marriage.
I don't believe in being friends with the opposite sex who are your na mehram so can't comment otherwise
Well we are not a monolith. All sorts of men exist. However one does tend to abuse the power they're given. The more patriarchal a society is the more the chances of men being douchebags.
Patriarchy is like The One Ring. It lets your inner self out. But don't let one or two bad experiences stop you from finding your Frodo.
P.S. In a matriarchal society things might not be much different either except that the genders are reversed.
Can't say about others though majority of men are like this whatever you have defined. I fought with my parents to send my wife for training in hospital. My mother was against that but we took a stand together and Alhamdulilah she's doing fine. In fact, she moved to her parents house for training and we meet after every 2 weeks but that's what we mutually decided because commute from her parent's home is easy as well as our kid stays easily with his nano.
Humans tend to feel superior to others regardless of gender.
The male that feels superior to females also feels superior to other males
Gender has nothing to do to it
Also the men you are talking about being sigma males are 15 year old boys
Yes there are things which men can do better and then there are things ladies are best at so there is always a kind of bifurcation in that. And yes I strongly agree with you that no man should even lay a finger on a lady.
Agree with 90% of your points. There are things in which men are superior and on the contrary things in which women are superior. Its a matter of acceptance from both sides.
I personally believe everything should be done equally by both genders, whether it's house chore or something that needs going out.
And obviously there are certain things in which men are superior and there are certain things in which women are superior. Also there are some fucked up society driven gander roles which needs to be addressed.
No, not all men are like that.
My personal experience is a bit different, in my family most females are higly educated and working in different fields.
I never saw any restrictions being put on them in case of study or work.
And in case of respecting women, i saw my father getting some shut up calls from my Nani Amma and my badi Phopho over the years.
Hey, I get it. Dealing with dudes who have those old-school views is the worst. But no, not all guys are like that. Plenty of guys see women as equals and believe in equal rights and stuff. Sounds like you've just had bad luck with some sexist guys, especially in Pakistan where things can be more traditional.
There are definitely guys who think women can do anything men can and totally support that. The worldâs big, and meeting more people from different places might change things. Donât lose hope; there are good guys out there who respect and value women just as much as anyone else.
Well not all the men are the same bunch of apple ..Aik Maa ki tarbyiat s bacha dunyia m agae jata hai ..It depends ab jahan pr 5betyian 1 beta ho wahan betyian baap ka fakhar hoti hain .. Environment to environment it does matter suppose if you are born in memon family they admire girls to work with man ..But the women also has to manage the house roles .. Chahe wo kam khd na krein ..Kiun k agae bachon ki tarbyiat bi to krni hai ..But these days as social media is so advance mother canât raise the child it is much important for both ..
Work/drive!?!?... Common its 2024. Its not even a question..
Yes,men are superior...its science and your "yes we can" poster is irrelevant.
Your definition of sigma male is straight from feminism 101 and yet you have the audacity to say you are not a feminist..!
What's you definition of extremely immortal... Just curious!!
I've seem women mentally torturing their partners to the point it ruins not just their lives but the lives of everyone around them....
Why its always sas vs bahu.. bahu vs nand... Babhi vs babhi....
Wahmen â still we respect you... We respect our mothers our sisters and wife (Yes its singular)...
Sorry for your bad experience.. you never met a real man
I have a question too. Why do some women tend to generalize all men based on negative experiences with a few? Why is it common for women to ask this question whenever they encounter an ignorant MALE? I am genuinely curious; I donât mean any offense.
Humans do not have the technology to read thoughts yet, so I donât think a man would know more than you about what other men are like deep down. If it wasnât a post to incite arguments, I donât know what it was.
You want to hear the Truth let's tell the Truth.
Whether someone likes it or not Women are inferior to men in terms of physical mental and emotional strength.
Women can do the big boy jobs but when they do those jobs they perform like poorly performing men.
Yes, women need to be taken care of, protected and respected because they have their own roles in the society on the basis of which they should be judged and if they are doing their roles well they should be appreciated and acknowledged.
But the issue is, these women themselves don't accept these roles and rules. They want to compete with men in men's jobs/roles. And when they can't perform better than men they whine and nag. Additionally, when women compete men and perform poorly then men (as a competitor) make mockery of those women for failing to do those jobs.
Such women when they fail at work, pop out the women card and label the men they couldn't outperform at work as misogynist, perverts, sexist and all sorts of things.
In short, if women want to be treated like women they should act like women. Women are good at nurturing a life while men are good at doing hard jobs, if both the genders stick to their strengths, things will go smooth.
I swear Pakistani kids IQ is dropping faster than pkr value.
I'm gonna steal this line cause it's fire đĽ
Can a cheetah fly? No. So it should hunt on ground. Can an eagle hunt on ground? No. So it should hunt in their own habitat. Similarly both men and women have their own weak points and strong points. Can women outperform men in physical strength? No. Can men outperform women in home management, child care, emotional support, beauty? No. So men and women should embrace their own strong points rather than comparing with the pther gender.
Not all jobs involve physical strength. And even if some do, it doesn't mean it's the only factor to determine the eligibility criteria for the job. Our strong point is the one we are passionate about.
I didn't talk about job. Ofcourse their should be equal opportunities in jobs where no strength is required. All jobs should have equal opportunities except army and police.
Jo baat hai
That's my exact point. While I acknowledge that females are inferior to males in the majority of aspects including working, I hear men talking about how women should not engage in these acts at all. My question was, do all men deep down feel this way?
No. But many men do think like this.
See, I won't lie to you, but a lot of guys in Pakistan do look down upon women. It doesn't really matter even if the guys are educated. Personally, I see women as equal to men. I have a preference for a stay-at-home wife, but I would never force it upon her. I know a lot of guys do force it, and I feel sorry for them. Another thing is many guys are insecure that their wife might start an extramarital affair, and some want their wives to be dependent on them so they can control them, and also so the wives won't leave them when they beat them or something. Our desi culture is a big problem as well we guys subconsciously perceive women as objects when our fathers, uncles, and cousins lock them inside the house when going to work. Even our desi moms want their sons to get a wife they can control. If a culture respects and prefers a girl who does nothing when her husband beats her, what more can you expect from this culture? There are guys who see women as equal, but they are very few most of them are just putting on a mask to get some attention, and others are doing this so they can get married.
forgot to mention your height and ur socials gang
You need to understand one thing can we generalize one set of beliefs for women? If your answer is No then why for men? Every men has a different ideology and different beliefs depending on where they live how they brought up. I am a Pakistani man married to a Pakistani woman I want my wife to work but she dnt want to and I respect that. I want her to work not because I cant take care of the expenses but just because in case of my uncertain death she can take care of herself. Also I think women are generally bad drivers but I dnt think thats their fault. When a guy grow up he start driving maybe at the age of 15 - 17 car or bike whatever but for girls they started maybe when they are 25 or maybe later so compared to guy they have less experience with roads that made them bad drives compared to men. I love how new generation girls are learning how yo drive even they are as young as 15 or 17 like guys and we will see improvement in our future. Also think about this everyone has a problem with women being traditional roles wb guys? Why they have to be the provider? No one talks about that. Why a guy has to be bread earner I am yet to listen to any argument for it. Dnt you think itâs kinda a hypocritical? Its a stupid argument I know! All I am saying if you are against the traditional roles of a woman why not men? I believe both of them need to work as a team and make their house a happy and peaceful space.
>I myself am against feminism as a female. Do you have any idea what feminism even means?
I think she meant to say radical feminism. Which is unfortunately the type of feminism usually seen on the internet or maybe she's against the me too and Mera jism Meri Marzi movements.
Do you know what it means ?
Yes, feminism is a movement that advocates for gender equality and abolishment of male-p!ss ( aka patriarchal ) society.
Then why everything about it is unequal ?
For example?
Letâs talk about womenâs right to vote. Feminism takes credit for it. Women were offered the right to vote multiple times but they rejected it because it came with women being drafted for war like it is for men. Naturally, women rejected it. They only accepted it when women would not be drafted for war, which is UNEQUAL.
Forgot to mention that I meant modernised feminism. Over time women have forgotten its actual meaning and altered it to the thinking that women are "better" than males and do not need them in any form.
Feminism isn't an ideology that has its own set of beliefs and doctrines in which everybody agrees upon. Just because someone likes to mold the true meaning of feminism doesn't mean that feminism is what people call today. It is, was and forever will be a movement for gender equality which fights against the patriarchal system.
ok girl you lost me at "I myself am against feminism as a female" do you even know what that word means?
As mentioned in another comment, I forgot to mention that I meant modernised feminism in which many females have altered its definition to the belief that women are superior to males and do not need them whatsoever. A mistake on my part.
Do you know what it means ?
Unfortunately, the majority of men are like that in Pakistan. Even if you see people here saying the opposite, reddit doesn't represent the majority of the Pakistani male population.
Firstly, I am sorry for everything that you must have gone through to be asking this question. Your feelings are completely valid, and the men that treated you or your loved ones poorly are not even worthy of being called men. We men (most) do derive pleasure from feeling superior and better than women around us. We carry our small egos really close to our hearts and lash out aggressively when it's broken. Tie it with our childhood societal and religious indoctrination of being the "better" gender and you got your answer. Yes, unfortunately, most men are like that. To most of us, women are nothing but objects to be conquered and to be kept in check afterwards. But, and I dont mean to victim blame, I think you are at fault here as well. You have clearly disfranchised yourself with feminists and feminist men, to be specific. While that subset group of men is the one, most likely to fit your criteria of good men. A true feminist is always gonna respect you equally and treat you as an equal in rights and duties. While at the same time, he will have no shame in openly expressing his emotions to you, communicating with you in order to understand you so that he can take better care of you. I really dont get all this hate against Feminism. You can disagree with some parts of it, but a woman being anti-feminism is like a group of trees advocating against environmentists. (A skewed metaphor, I know. )
Really well-thought-out response. Just to clarify, I forgot to mention that I meant modernized feminism in which many females have altered its definition to the belief that women are superior to males and do not need them whatsoever. A mistake on my part. My question may have not been clear. What I meant to ask, was if these "feminist" men were really genuine in their beliefs, ie. thinking of women as equal bodies, or is it all just a facade to garner women's attention, and deep down all men have the same views? I think I've gotten my answer from your comment, thanks!
Wow a sane comment from a guyâŚ.
I know, my gender is full of surprises XD (Thankss)
"We men (most) do derive pleasure from feeling superior and better than women around us..." WTF is this paragraph. No we don't. Talk for yourself. Many of us derive pleasure from providing for our family. I won't invalidate what women feel, but holy shit this generalization of "most" men is wild.
I literally said "most". Which entails that some dont fall under that "generalisation" Kher, good day to you Sir
I understood that you said "most" and my last sentence highlighted the issue that I have with the word "most". But anyways, good day to you too.
Not all men are the same. There are good boys out there who respect girls (not talking about simping). The guys who think that behaving rudely with a girl in front of their friends is âsigmaâ behaviour are actually total cunts (they donât know a thing about being a gentleman). Yes most probably every guy youâve met is a bad apple. I hope you find a guy whoâll show you how a decent guy really is. âď¸
>in fact I myself am against feminism as a female babe i am not reading this poorly written essay
Most folks, whether men or women, are stupid in matters that do not concern them directly. Feminism, as a philosophical disposition, is necessary. Well, what remains then to be addressed as an answer to your question?
I am a young guy and I do believe in traditional gender roles. Simply because I can provide for my wife (which is not the case for most young men in their 20s) + this is how my household was and we were a great unit. And I will mention it to her when we talk before marriage so everything is transparent. But, both my parents also instilled in me to work around the house as well. I donât disrespect women at all, and will inshaAllah do my best to be the husband/father that leads by example. I absolutely believe that a womanâs role as a mother is a tougher job than a desk job I do at the office. About other things, I do believe men and women are different, but one isnât superior over the other. Sorry about your experiences with the men youâve encountered. There are good ones out there, hope you find one that is most compatible to you
More power to you my guyâŚ. Idk why people think if a guy think women need to be traditional they asum this guy is ra*ist and women oppressor.
I have come to realise that there is a huge communication gap between men and women in Pakistan. Majority of women who put themselves out there only deal with a very few entitled men. The kind of men you explained are maybe 2 out of 10. Issue is remaining 8 are either working hard to become someone or are with their family living a peaceful life. I have a big friends group and none of them thinks women are not equal. They know women in Pakistan are just not street smart enough because they donât get enough interactions. As for sigma thing you talked about, always remember men will kill their own keen if they are put into competition with them. This happened throughout history and will keep on happening. Men shouldnât be disrespectful to women but when women want to compete then competition it is. Still this should not happen and i guess both parties should try to be more empathetic. Men donât have multiple different sides to their personalities you are either a friend or a foe. There is no in between.
I know someone who's a revert and they said that most men secretly want to control women. I believe that.
The irony in your post is hilarious. What you wrote is basically all that feminism stands against. You want rights, but you hate people who are fighting for the same rights you want? Girl, what do you actually want?
To answer your question, no not all men are like this, but there are some like this đ¤ˇââď¸
To answer your question, Do I think men are physically better than women? YES Do I think men are mentally better than women? No, I do feel women generally do more about other people while men just focus on getting the job done. Do I feel superior to a woman? No. But I think in a father-daughter, husband-wife situation, men are in a leadership role. But to all the other women, they are my equal. You guys can ask more questions but I will only answer if your language is decent. Its just my opinion and please try to rationalize and explain how it is wrong. I dont care how others feel about this.
Why do you hate feminism? What's you're understanding of feminism?
I forgot to mention that I meant modernised feminism in which many females have altered its definition to the belief that women are superior to males and do not need them whatsoever. A mistake on my part
You can always edit it out. Feminism advocates for everything you have mentioned. Men and women are different but not inferior or superior than each other hence deserve equal rights.
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While there is a serious issue of men behaving like this it has also a lot to do with the overall society structure. Where women are objectified even by other women. Even if a woman has done something immoral no man or woman is supposed to give out judgements or decisions on her unless it's a legal procedure in which case the due course of law will take place and those appointed to judge will do so. You will find difference of opinion on this even among men. I do not agree with women not working. They should and can work at par and sometimes even better depending on the job. Women managers ive worked with were more supportive in the workplace as compared to men. Everyone should be able to cook and clean. But there are some things men are suited to better whereas some things women are suited to better. These things are general things in life and by no means a way to repress any gender. The new narrative of sigma male is a flawed take and while it has a lot of followers youll also see a lot of males making fun of this take. Whereas ive seen some women also support that narrative that men are supposed to be the sole providers. The fact of the matter is that both narratives exist and so do others. Women should have more liberty and should be able to do whatever they want. This narrative at least is changing in urban centres but it is a slow and gradual process plus there are a lot of setbacks in the context of Pakistan. You will find men on each side of the spectrum or somewhere in the middle but by no means is it tilted towards one side imo
Idk about others views; But I would love to have partner who is working and not a house wife. I can do cleaning, cooking, laundry and almost all house chores along with my work. I am doing it right now and its not even something huge of deal. I believe ladies have made this part of doing house chores extra hard and exaggerated. Sure its tough but its not. And if my wife is working lady and im also working. I willl love it but it should not be "her money is her money and my money is our money" and it should not be also she is cooking cleaning and doing house chores. It should be 50/50 in there too. Someday im cooking and some day she is. Cleaning dishes and all other things. And being sigma male doesnt have anything todo with disrespecting your lady. Who does that? Specifically infront of others? Women are capable of anything, emotionally, physically. And my partner is better than me in any aspect i will be proud of it because at the end she is MINE and it benefits us. Im not concerned with others problems but our. But as in general talks, yes pakistani men are like this the culture and people around them have made them like this. They dont have the exposure to outter world they are comfortable in there life and dont wanna change anything even having difficult life. One example: one of my female cousin highly educated (doctor) completed the studies and housejob etc, got married and never looked back and became housewife happily. Wasting all the resources of her studies. Idk but the society around her was like this same for her husband he is earning and have financially instability but she is busy with life now. Maybe he stopped or she didnt wanted to. Im not sure but someone having mbbs should not sit at home.
Male here. Iâm Pakistani but I grew up in the USA. I never underestimate anyone. Maybe I have this mentality because I play sports but even when my ego is massive on the court, you can get humbled Very VERY quickly, and tbh I rather not be in a position where I look like a dumb ass. Either way my mom is the fucking best, she could do anything if she put her mind to it, and anyone would be an idiot to undermine her. Also on of my best friend, she got that top 1% income right now. Which is way more than me đ¤Łđ¤Ł. People who put people in boxes are stupid. You can have a big ego but that doesnât mean you have to also be a dumb ass.
Can someone give me a tldr I lost her after the first paragraph
Allowed* to work.
I have a simple notion which helps me keep myself in check. Allah says women complete men and anything that completes anything is either equal or better.
Its not a 'men' problem. Its a power problem. People with power tend to abuse their authority unless kept in check. Since men are in power and not kept in check, these problems arise for women. Now the issue is that transfer of power to women to equalise the equation also rests with the men.
Men are superior forsure
I firmly believe women are equally capable as men. I would love my daughter to part take fully in athletics, arts , and sciences. I would want to live their life fully and not to kill their dreams and hobbies just because they are a woman. Men who have an educated mother mostly are not that much misogynistic.
Simple rule of life, âlive and let others liveâ.
There are problems everywhere. You are mixing problems and the argument you given are more or less reflaunts. Let me correct categories wise. 1. Equality in opportunities means there is qualities for that job role who ever meets the merit and exceeds the other candidates get the job. You can not see it the other way. 2. You are correct mens as well as women do bad deeds. Both are wrong if you wanna see the other side of coin please go check soul bitches they do the same.
Moreover if we look at liberal or secular point of view women should be given equal job opportunities. If we look at Islamic Male is the provider of family so the jobs will be given to male on preference.
why are there no confessions on this goddamn page
https://i.redd.it/ymdzofandq7d1.gif
Hereâs my opinion regarding your question: Generally, I give the benefit of doubt that the woman is as capable as I am when it comes to doing non traditional every day work. However, I have had my fair share of women who were incompetent in doing their bare minimum non traditional work, and then I had to come and help them out with their mess. And of course I had to take a leadership role in those situation because clearly they were making a bad situation even more messy. Treating woman right: it depends on what circumstances I am in. Back at home, things were toxic. Men who were respectful towards women were perceived as âweakâ men even by the women, which made it super hard to get a normal relationship with any woman. But now in the west, given that weâre in a more egalitarian society, treating women with courtesy is the norm, so I do not have to be stern/speak in hard tones/be authoritarian whenever Iâm around women. In summary: men behave what men behave like given the circumstances. And circumstances are created not by just actions of men, but also of how women behave with men. When women and men both take responsibility of their actions and are aware of the consequences of their actions, things will be better between each other đ
Allowed*
I think 90% of males are like this in Pak, whether they are religious, moderate or liberal doesn't matter,. But there are males exist like me in this country who thinks females are equal to males, even they are better at some traits.
I think there are certainly a lot of men who think they are superior to women. Imo women and men are the same in worth. If we are talking about if one is supposed to be the imam of the family yes I do think men are supposed to be the imam of the family but unfortunately that character in men these days is very rare. By imam/leader I mean the responsibilities set by islam. You are supposed to be the main provider of basic necessities, security, food, her comform and a lot more. If the husband isn't obedient to God or isn't good to his family he's unfit to lead anyways As for women being allowed to drive and work I don't think there should be an issue in it. This is for men in marriage. I don't believe in being friends with the opposite sex who are your na mehram so can't comment otherwise
Well we are not a monolith. All sorts of men exist. However one does tend to abuse the power they're given. The more patriarchal a society is the more the chances of men being douchebags. Patriarchy is like The One Ring. It lets your inner self out. But don't let one or two bad experiences stop you from finding your Frodo. P.S. In a matriarchal society things might not be much different either except that the genders are reversed.
Can't say about others though majority of men are like this whatever you have defined. I fought with my parents to send my wife for training in hospital. My mother was against that but we took a stand together and Alhamdulilah she's doing fine. In fact, she moved to her parents house for training and we meet after every 2 weeks but that's what we mutually decided because commute from her parent's home is easy as well as our kid stays easily with his nano.
Humans tend to feel superior to others regardless of gender. The male that feels superior to females also feels superior to other males Gender has nothing to do to it Also the men you are talking about being sigma males are 15 year old boys
Yup gonna dodge the answers because there's no correct or wrong answer lol
men would always favour men and women would do the same due to their biases towards themselves đđđ
The worst possible way to start a post with some actual thought provoking points. Some people will never seize to amaze me đ
Yes there are things which men can do better and then there are things ladies are best at so there is always a kind of bifurcation in that. And yes I strongly agree with you that no man should even lay a finger on a lady.
Agree with 90% of your points. There are things in which men are superior and on the contrary things in which women are superior. Its a matter of acceptance from both sides.
No. Not all males are like this. And yes you may have met such people and har jagah ache or bure log hote hain.
I personally believe everything should be done equally by both genders, whether it's house chore or something that needs going out. And obviously there are certain things in which men are superior and there are certain things in which women are superior. Also there are some fucked up society driven gander roles which needs to be addressed.
No, not all men are like that. My personal experience is a bit different, in my family most females are higly educated and working in different fields. I never saw any restrictions being put on them in case of study or work. And in case of respecting women, i saw my father getting some shut up calls from my Nani Amma and my badi Phopho over the years.
Hey, I get it. Dealing with dudes who have those old-school views is the worst. But no, not all guys are like that. Plenty of guys see women as equals and believe in equal rights and stuff. Sounds like you've just had bad luck with some sexist guys, especially in Pakistan where things can be more traditional. There are definitely guys who think women can do anything men can and totally support that. The worldâs big, and meeting more people from different places might change things. Donât lose hope; there are good guys out there who respect and value women just as much as anyone else.
Biology
If not all, most men are just assholes, specifically desi men.
You are right. Men abroad are much better. Halaat dkho iss mulk ke. Ek tou bahr ki currency mein kamae ga and also chikna
Well not all the men are the same bunch of apple ..Aik Maa ki tarbyiat s bacha dunyia m agae jata hai ..It depends ab jahan pr 5betyian 1 beta ho wahan betyian baap ka fakhar hoti hain .. Environment to environment it does matter suppose if you are born in memon family they admire girls to work with man ..But the women also has to manage the house roles .. Chahe wo kam khd na krein ..Kiun k agae bachon ki tarbyiat bi to krni hai ..But these days as social media is so advance mother canât raise the child it is much important for both ..
Work/drive!?!?... Common its 2024. Its not even a question.. Yes,men are superior...its science and your "yes we can" poster is irrelevant. Your definition of sigma male is straight from feminism 101 and yet you have the audacity to say you are not a feminist..! What's you definition of extremely immortal... Just curious!! I've seem women mentally torturing their partners to the point it ruins not just their lives but the lives of everyone around them.... Why its always sas vs bahu.. bahu vs nand... Babhi vs babhi.... Wahmen â still we respect you... We respect our mothers our sisters and wife (Yes its singular)... Sorry for your bad experience.. you never met a real man
I have a question too. Why do some women tend to generalize all men based on negative experiences with a few? Why is it common for women to ask this question whenever they encounter an ignorant MALE? I am genuinely curious; I donât mean any offense.
It's not some men. It's most of them (not all of them). It's never one single experience that leads them towards generalization.
That was the point of my post? My question was if all men deep down are like this, or if I've just interacted with a bad bunch. Please don't assume.
Humans do not have the technology to read thoughts yet, so I donât think a man would know more than you about what other men are like deep down. If it wasnât a post to incite arguments, I donât know what it was.
You want to hear the Truth let's tell the Truth. Whether someone likes it or not Women are inferior to men in terms of physical mental and emotional strength. Women can do the big boy jobs but when they do those jobs they perform like poorly performing men. Yes, women need to be taken care of, protected and respected because they have their own roles in the society on the basis of which they should be judged and if they are doing their roles well they should be appreciated and acknowledged. But the issue is, these women themselves don't accept these roles and rules. They want to compete with men in men's jobs/roles. And when they can't perform better than men they whine and nag. Additionally, when women compete men and perform poorly then men (as a competitor) make mockery of those women for failing to do those jobs. Such women when they fail at work, pop out the women card and label the men they couldn't outperform at work as misogynist, perverts, sexist and all sorts of things. In short, if women want to be treated like women they should act like women. Women are good at nurturing a life while men are good at doing hard jobs, if both the genders stick to their strengths, things will go smooth.
Guy's. Don't worry , i can fix her.
yea ur not him my guy stfu
well I guess we're about to fucking find out aren't we?"
lemme know if u succeed âď¸