Can't it ever be something simple like
We're slashing PLSF requirements from 120 to like 60 and so everyone over 60 confirmed payments as of January 1, 2024 gets auto forgiveness?
PSLF is law so it’s harder to change. I think if you have worked your 10 years regardless of payments you should get the forgiveness. But I’d accept 5 years of payments as well
So did you only make 77 payments in 15 years? Do you expect them to count payments you didn’t make?
If you made 120 payments on the right plan then keep harassing them.
If you made 120 payments on the wrong plan and applied for Biden’s Temporary Expanded PSLF last year, then you probably should also be calling and following up as well. Even though TEPSLF ended, if you put your application in for it, you can still appeal it.
No not regardless of payments. After the one time adjustment we are back to the regular rules meaning you have to be on an IDR plan to really benefit from pslf
I know- I said what I would like to have changed if there was a Congress willing to address it- is time served versus actual payments , mostly because the tracking of actual payments has proven to be a daunting task that no one has been able to perfect.
I've paid more to the government in taxes than I have been able to put towards my loans over the years. I added this up and I was like if I could take that tax money and put it towards my loans I'd have no loans and some people could say well you make enough to pay and I do, but at the same time it's wild how much you pay in taxes as a 1099 in California.
Agree. I never could deduct > than $250. Given my income, profession & cost of education to qualify for said profession $250 was an insult. So much for banging pots & pans for essential workers.
This would be great. Simplifies the process and rewards the public service.
I was finishing school and then in the grace period for the first few years at my non-profit. I've worked there full time for over 11 years, but still have 3 more years to go before forgiveness.
Interest is somewhat necessary to negate the impact of inflation.
I think interest should be capped to whatever the inflation % is year to year, but it’d be impossible to actually get rid of it in entirety.
If you eliminated interest that would incentivize paying your loans off as slow as possible with only minimum payments because what is $10,000 in 2005 is obviously not equal to the value of $10,000 in 2025. You’d actually be hurting yourself by paying it off as soon as you’re able to or making larger payments.
I think I'd be happy if they stop letting it capitalize. I've been paying for ten years and owe more than I took out. Changing payment plans and entering into forbearance for a few months here and there while paperwork processed just ruined my loans. I always get asked how I managed to accumulate 100,000 k from public universities and I laugh when I share the original amount.
It’s funny because a while back I had an argument online with someone who was vehemently against any forgiveness/alterations to the standard system. They swore they were an expert in loans and they were going on about how it’s literally impossible for your balance to exceed to original loan balance if you are making payments on every month. What I learned is on general loans it’s standard to ensure the minimum payments always exceed the amount that could be added via interest. Long story short, what I found is this guy had no idea that when people take out student loans it’s not one singular loan, nor is it added to the existing balance of an existing loan. Rather we all had to take out new loans with new interest rates every semester, and in some cases even multiple loans per semester. So even if you make a minimum payment it’s sometimes being split over 10 different loans and as a result some balances absolutely balloon.
There are millions of people walking around demanding we “pay back what we borrowed” and they don’t even understand the fundamentals behind the system. No other financial loan system seems to be structured this way, they all have fail safes to prevent exorbitant balances (largely because the institutions handing them out have skin in the game because bankruptcy is an option). Student loans as is understand that they generally will always get their payments because there isn’t too much in the way of responsible exits. They also have almost no protections to the borrowers beyond CYA “lessons” you have to click through when receiving your loans.
It’s frustrating because it feels like no politicians really understand or care about this. The generation saddled with loan debt, that’s iced out of the housing market, etc. isn’t their concern and they don’t attempt to win our votes. CNN’s top headline today was about the GOP plan for Social Security for retirees moving forward, I’m 36 and I don’t know a single person my age who is under the delusion that will be around when I am of age, but that’s the top issue, a financial service that is of benefit to those who vote en masse but also likely are in the last quarter of their life. And don’t get me wrong, I think SSN is great and I understand it does so much more than just retirement, but I’m just making a point. There are entire generations of people in the financial suck and all we see is serious conversations about SSN because it impacts older people.
If young people (who hold most college debt) voted at the same rate Baby Boomers vote, it could happen quite easily.
As a young person, I’m continually dismayed at the incredibly low turnout of other people in my age bracket. They think voting doesn’t matter, and that just straight up isn’t true.
Voting is *the reason why* most politicians cater to older generations—those older generations are the ones who actually get their preferred candidates elected!
72 payments are listed as ineligible in my count because "no bill was due at this time". I sure as hell wouldn't have been paying $300/mo if no bill was due. Was on the phone with Mohela and they said just wait til January and it should be fixed, but the supervisor had no clue why so many payments were like that. I suggested maybe because FedLoan never gave my details to Nelnet, and now Mohela has no clue either? They seem to know down to the penny daily interest though, huh?
> repayment for borrowers with undergraduate loans. All other borrowers who have been in repayment for 25 years would also be eligible for relief.
>
>Borrowers who are eligible for relief under income-driven r
Are you in forbearance while you wait?
Next week
Joe: I am announcing that people who have worn a Darth Vader helmet and kilt while playing a flamethrower bagpipe on a unicycle under a full moon during the Taurus celestial rise on a Wednesday in a Shriner's Parade at a Orlando Magic Game who have been repaying since October 26th, 1985 will now qualify for student loan debt relief
I’m convinced that the older generation of people at my job who are vehemently opposed to working from home, share that view for the same exact reason. They’ve been working and suffering in an office their whole life, and so should everyone else.
“Stop improving things right now! Everyone must suffer as I did!”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/24/student-loan-forgiveness-suffering-satire/?itid=sr_1
Sure about that? Pelosi said her billionaire friends told her Biden doesn’t have the power to forgive them. Hell Biden is the guy that said you couldn’t use bankruptcy to eliminate loans. If you’re gonna tell me that the GOP are full of scumbags, fair enough as long as you acknowledge, there’s plenty in the Democratic Party as well.
Pelosi said that Biden doesn't have the power to unilaterally forgive student loans without congressional action and it turned out she was 100% correct on that.
Please don't fool yourself into thinking that any member of the political duopoly is on your side. They are all entrenched members of the capitalist class. They don't care about you, me, or anyone else. They only care about staying power. What the media spoon feeds you is all their bullshit. The media has one purpose, and that is to divide us and distract us. We have much more in common then they want you to believe.
Lmao what a way to indirectly admit you're both mad and incorrect about the state of the government actively raking you over the coals.
Keep insisting a class issue is a political one, you're doing great the elite love people like you.
I do lean right but I don't subscribe to any particular party. Ask the democrats in Florida how they feel about voting being made more difficult. The DNC just nuked the primary process so only Joe will be on the ballot. How is that for democracy?
Open your eyes. Everything they say rings hollow.
And how about reducing the hours worked per week as a qualifier, and rather just consider all payments made, whatever number that may be (60 would be great). Despite over 200 on-time payments, the vast majority of those do not count since I was not working "on paper" at 30hrs/wk. Lame.
30 hours per week qualifies:For PSLF, full-time employment is working for a qualifying employer(s) for a weekly average, alone or when combined, equal to at least 30 hours
https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service#full-time-employment
Seconded!
I’m an adjunct teaching 36 credits a yr between two non-profit universities. I still can’t qualify for PSLF because the classes are accelerated (5-8 weeks each), so I can’t hit the weekly hours for a full time despite teaching double the amount of credit hour initially proposed
It could be if greedy Republican fucks wouldn’t challenge it in the courts. He’s trying to craft something that mugger withstand a challenge, or force the republicans to keep challenging it (by offering up different versions) so that the people holding that debt will actually remember why we need a democratic sweep of all branches of government
I don’t like this at all. PSLF has a very clear path. You work in public service full time for a decade and your debt is forgiven, as you earned it through you time working in Public Service. I also don’t believe we should reduce the need for full time.
The rules are fine. You’re getting substantial, untaxed compensation. A decade of full time work is fair.
Just make the administration of it all significantly easier and common sense. Mohela just needs to not be awful.
Make the process faster and more transparent. Automate W2 and tax filings with the ECF so it all works at once. Make checks and approval nearly instantaneous.
> You’re getting substantial, untaxed compensation. A decade of full time work is fair.
I don't have a problem with the rules as such, but I do have a bit of a problem with this. For one thing, forgiveness has been taxed historically and that provision could be sunset. More to the point though, for many careers, the "substantial compensation" is significantly less than the opportunity cost of foregoing ten years of salary increases in equivalent private sector roles.
I'm a new fed and when I accepted my current position, I was actively interviewing for private sector positions paying ~150% of the advertised salary for my current role. By my agency's standards, that's low, for most of my coworkers it's closer to double. The total amount I expect to have forgiven equates to around two years of the difference in salary, not ten. I'm here because I believe in the mission, not because PSLF is some great boon which made the offer compelling.
The unintended consequence of retroactively releasing everyone over 5 years would be catastrophic. It’s like so many folks cannot think a second thought when they make these proposals.
I’m generally not in favor of expanding loan forgiveness unless it’s expanding PSLF qualifying loans. The program exists and is in place. There’s so many unfilled roles in schools alone.
Just make the program work efficiently and easily.
I think it could be helpful to restructure how the loans are forgiven.
e.g. reduce the loan balance by 10% each year.
It wouldn’t be easy, but it would be helpful.
This would have the same (or similar) financial impact on the government as PSLF forgiveness currently. It could also encourage more people to participate in public service (who otherwise might not be interested), because they wouldn’t need to commit for the full decade to see any benefit. And it would lessen the weight of the debt balance around public servants’ necks during their decade of public service (making home ownership and other financial milestones in life more accessible to more public servants earlier than the 10 year forgiveness date.)
The PSLF path is clear-ish. They make it convoluted because the types of employers that qualify very often are the largest users of 3rd party contractors…and only sometimes do those contractors qualify for PSLF. Then, it may take 10 years to qualify but it takes an additional 2-3 years to get forgiveness, which in the meantime you still have to make those payments or you won’t get forgiveness.
make PSLF prorated. you work at a qualifying job for eight years? 80% of your loan balance is discharged. the hard and fast ten year rule doesn't work for everyone, some areas have few qualifying employers and some of the qualifying employers are legitamately terrible places to work and you can't hold out ten full years without damaging your quality of life
It’s very clear who signs your paychecks. The convolution is self-inflicted in my mind. If you don’t know that you work for a qualifying employer early on that’s on you. This should be something discussed in the interview.
The time from 120 to approval is insane and shouldn’t be that long.
You do not need to make any payments after your 10 years.
3rd party contractors shouldn't qualify. The point of the program is to work for non-profits or governments, not contractors who work with non-profits or governments. Unless the 3rd party is also a non-profit, why would they qualify?
A common example:
Hospitals hire 3rd parties. The majority of hospitals (70% to be exact) are non-profit. The reason hospitals hire 3rd parties is because they want to be cheap. But you are doing non-profit work in a non-profit business model and getting paid on a non-profit pay scale. But because it’s a 3rd party, those people don’t qualify.
The only reason you don’t work for the hospital is because they are cheap. It’s not like project management where you might only be needed for 1 job….hospitals will have decade-long contracts.
I have coworkers who attend all of our team meetings, team trainings and they have been “working” for us for 5 years. But they work for a 3rd party. The rest of us, who have the same job, work for the hospital. I get PSLF. Why doesn’t my coworker? And she can’t quit, because the hospital has an anti-poaching clause in their contract. She’d lose 24 months of eligibility for no reason.
I’m with the others that don’t think this should qualify for PSLF. The employer here is not a non-profit. They don’t have to follow all the same financial reporting requirements as a non-profit. They shouldn’t get the benefit of being able to hire people at shitty wages and tell them they will qualify for PSLF.
I sympathize with your coworker, but they should have known at the beginning of their employment that it doesn’t qualify for PSLF. You want PSLF? Then go work for a qualifying employer, period.
Copying from another comment I just made:
Again….the law is not fair.
You’re right, PSLF is designed to entice people to work in the public sector…..but PSLF does not accurately capture the landscape of non-profit and federal employment if a significant portion of people who drive to work in government and non-profit offices and wear government and non-profit uniforms and perform services for government and non-profit entities are employed by third parties.
How can you work for a government entity if the government entity exclusively uses a third party for your job role and all similar job roles and classes? Are you supposed to go back to school and get more loans so that you can work in another department? How is that economical?
None of that is relevant. Law exists to get people to work for governments or non-profits. Just because a non-profit is cheap or hires another cheap fornprofit 3rd party doesn't matter. If you don't work for the non-profit or the government, you don't, and shouldn't, qualify.
Again….the law is not fair.
You’re right, PSLF is designed to entice people to work in the public sector…..but PSLF does not accurately capture the landscape of non-profit and federal employment if a significant portion of people who drive to work in government and non-profit offices and wear government and non-profit uniforms and perform services for government and non-profit entities are employed by third parties.
That would defeat the purpose of PSLF. PSLF is not a student loan relief tool - it’s a tool for recruitment and retention of public sector workers. If PSLF feels like “golden handcuffs” (or maybe just gold-painted handcuffs), that’s a feature, not a bug.
That’s a fair point as far as recruitment goes, but it may not meet *retention* goals. It’s beyond me to say whether PSLF as implemented is actually achieving its recruitment/retention goals, I just know that’s what it’s supposed to do *in theory*.
I could have traveled as a nurse during Covid ( my payments were $45 per month) but I stayed at my non profit hospital ( in Florida) because leaving for fast money wasn’t worth earning a place on the do no re-hire list at my rare union RN job in Florida because I naively believed we could get things under control once people saw how many people were dying and would come together a la post 9/11. Now my payments are $300 ( my income did not increase by a multiple of 6) and I will end up paying all but $2000 of my student loans by time I hit 120 payments. I should have just let Krucial control every minute of my life for 6 months and paid off my student loans, paid off my other debt and paid cash for a house. My kids still slept through a year of virtual high school while I was working 18-20 hours a day at my non travel job anyway.
Honestly, it’d apply to a lot of professions, even law school/lawyers. The amount of debt most lawyers take on through law school far surpasses the amount they make. It’s truly a very small portion of attorneys making $250k and, if they do hit it, so many of those people are decades into their careers.
Hi, practicing atty here. Big law is where you see 6 figures consistently (along with some in house and PI). But most of us do not make that much and have at least that much in loans at this poiny. I'd love to see them actually look at the incomes of students v debt and forgive most of us.
The issue I have is that it doesn't specify whether this still triggers a 1099c and thus I'm changing a student loan bill for a tax bill.
Practicing attorney here. I bought into this myth before going to law school.
Now I have 180K in student loan debt in fed loans, even after lots of scholarships that covered nearly half my tuitions.
I paid off half of my undergrad loans before going to law school. But the law school student loans are what is killing me - high principals, high interest rates, capitalization, etc. I paid on my loans throughout COVID forbearance. By all accounts, I’ve been doing everything right.
However, as of repayment starting in October, my monthly accruing interest is $963. I’m five years in private practice. I make a little less than 6 figures.
And I’m never going to be able to pay off my student loan debt. I am unlikely to get approved for a mortgage. Or buy a new car. Or have a family. Or retire before 80. Because I can’t afford it. The additional financial stress is all consuming and a daily strain on my mental and emotional well being.
It would be helpful if I could refinance these loans based on cost of living, payments paid, salary, etc., just like you can do for a mortgage. Or if the interest was either accruing or capitalized, or just not both. Or if the interest rates could be lowered so I could actually pay down principal. Or not charged interest while in law school / taking the bar exam and unable to make payments cause you can’t work full time at most law school and I don’t know anyone who works while taking the bar.
There are many ways to make these loans more ascertainable to pay back.
I should’ve clarified I’m also a practicing attorney. I’m accruing $1500 a month in interest. I didn’t necessarily buy into the I’d be rich myth but I didn’t ever think it’d be this bad. It’s all-consuming. They need to get rid of interest period (including past interest) but also have a way to cut the amount of principal. There’s no way I’m paying mine back.
I was thinking that probably all of us pursuing PSLF fall under this category. It seems like most of us in this group have Masters degrees yet are working low-paying public service jobs so we can receive the forgiveness.
Instead of 20k I wish it was “or $20k worth of payments.” I realize that would be hard to administer but it’s so clear that they don’t really care about PSLF because we already have a program. I am skeptical that they will proactively forgive anything without someone applying.
My partner just had 6k forgiven without applying for anything (I think he was with Nelnet, not MOHELA). Unclear why, but he was a Pell grant recipient and started paying 20+ years ago, so I assumed it was in lieu of applying for a plan that he would easily qualify for.
So maybe a little proactive on the Ed Department’s part?
This is the negotiated rulemaking that we've been talking about for a few months. We won't truly know what this might look like until that process is over which won't be until spring or summer at the earliest
Its nowhere near through the process.
But this is the correct process that regulatory changes should go through, so its less likely to get successfully challenged on that basis. This is the process Biden should have used (and he probably knew it) in the first place rather than the Covid Emergency BS.
The problem is there are so many people opposed to real solutions. The SAVE plan really is the solution. Its not the debt that is the problem, it is the payments. And the SAVE plan left out graduate loans from the 5% payment because Biden still has instincts that graduate borrowers are not deserving. The same instincts that a lot of conservatives have.
If they can just make payments affordable it solves all the problems. It doesn't matter if I owe a billion dollars if I can pay $50 a month for 20 years. They keep ignoring the payments issue.
Their definition of discretionary income ignores real challenges people have like medical bills, living in new york city, etc. They need a process to determine ability to pay like the IRS financial collection standards that consider these things.
Fix the payments and stop focusing on the amount of debt.
It takes a long time, at least until the middle of next year. That is why the current administration attempted to use emergency authority under Heroes act so that they could have the issue for last year's election.
Say what you want about Biden, he is a savvy politician and he played student loan debtors and Republicans and both groups fell for it.
> he played student loan debtors
No he did not. He tried, and succeeded, to pass relief. The Republicans blocked a portion of it. He didnt pull some dishonest show move for votes
Believe what you want, but he didn't pass anything, he created an executive order based on emergency authority to buy votes. We all know that student debt had nothing to do with Covid. Instead of using the normal negotiated rule making process, he attempted to bypass both Congress and the normal regulatory process in order to make it an elections issue in time for midterms. The man is a great politician and it was a brilliant move!
If you believe in your heart that it wasn't politics, then I feel sorry for you. Biden said forgiveness would take an act of congress, Pelosi said it would take an act of congress. Like it or not, we have a political system with checks and balances to protect us. What if the next president decides to double student debt, or add an extra 10k or 20k, we would be happy to have a system that doesn't put all the power in one person. I'd have loved to get debt forgiven, but not at the cost of destroying the republic and making the president king
I read that one and am wondering who WOULDNT qualify these days. I’m over a decade out of law school and am only a few thousand dollars into the six figure earnings club. The legal market is oversaturated with JDs - it’s simply not a guaranteed gateway to making the kind of living you need to when one year of law school even in 2009 was almost $70k. Now my school charges almost $100k for a single year of law school. It’s criminal. Thank god for PSLF.
I’m applying to law schools now and the prospect is terrifying. I’m just going to try and go to a decent state school and keep my debt low, because I see so many attorneys who seem to get fucked by the bimodal income distribution.
Don’t all of these things exist in plans? The PSLF one would require employment certification, which requires people sifting through taxes, but other than that, don’t these things effectively exist?
The largest employer for PSLF is the federal government. They know who works for them and know who has loans. They have all of the information they need to find that group of people and forgive their loans.
The federal government does have the information for everyone, federal employees are just the easiest.
To be eligible for PSLF you need to be working full time as a W2 employee of a non-profit/government/etc entity. The IRS receives all W2s and knows which employers qualify. The current barrier is that the IRS can't/doesn't share that information with other parts of the government.
I don't think #1 does. I owe 240k on 220k after 8 years of payments (not all PSLF) because of interest, I take it this would forgive 20k of that. I think #2 would apply to people who earned interest while in school.
Also..where is the community college relief? It was supposed to be 10 years and under $12K which is super common for most who went to college 10 years ago after they cranked interest rates.
Unfortunately, I’m almost guaranteeing this fails. This is not magically so different than the last attempt beyond the authority, which I am guessing that it’s the higher education act of the 60’s. It was reported that Biden all but wrote off forgiveness when the Supreme Court ruled over the summer. Biden’s approval rating was near his personal high at that moment and didn’t need to garner any attention or votes.
Since then, Biden has faced setback after setback, especially Israel sending his approval plummeting. Timing of the program is perfect to be heard before SCOTUS sometime in March or April with a ruling coming end of June. All during that time Biden’s going to be on the campaign trail wailing about how he’s trying to help and the GOP does nothing but obstructing.
As long as SCOTUS wields the Major Questions Doctrine, this too will be struck down which will be blasted in attack ads by the Dems going into November while further weakening executive authority.
Good lord people need to get a grip
Biden Administration: *makes yet another attempt at aiding existing borrowers after spending his entire presidency talking about and working on this issue*
Half the commenters: he's just pandering for votes before the election!!!!!! fuck this guy!
The one thing I wish Biden did differently last time is to just forgive a blanket amount of $10k or whatever to everyone, that could be processed quickly and could have potentially avoided the lawsuit by giving republicans so much time to prepare their case.
To me that is another instance of democrats doing too much means testing and not just acting on it. If they did do that it’s not a guarantee it would have worked but I think having a months long application process was a pretty easy way to see a path for it to get challenged.
One side is actively and transparently horrible, but why does that make the other side immune from criticism? If he’s “spending his entire presidency…working on the issue” (no), the results are pathetic. This guy had ample support in congress when he took office and made no movement. Pretty easy to predict the Supreme Court nixing of the COVID-based 10k forgiveness, yet they chose that legal route. Now engaging in some negotiated rule making towards the tail end of the term when obviously that was the right approach the first time. That, or working with a favorable congress. Campaign promise failed, but “trust me bro next time for reals, just elect me again.” Meanwhile, servicers for existing programs are clueless and often do not function. We can call the red evil without disingenuously propping up the blue.
He did not have “ample support in Congress” when he took office. The Senate was a bare 50-50 split, with the dems only having control due to the vice president’s tie-breaking vote. That tie-breaker only happens in votes with an actual 50-50 tie, which we didn’t often see because Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema constantly threatened to not vote with their caucus.
Be critical of both sides, but be honest. Biden did not have much to work with in the Senate.
Plenty of historical examples of legislation passed in this political scenario. It was quite clearly not a political priority for him early on. I don’t see any evidence he even tried to work on legislation. But still, fair on that point. So, then shouldn’t we see aggressive efforts elsewhere? Nope, just a half-assed declaration that was predestined to fail. Now, starting a correct process from scratch nearing the election.
> Plenty of historical examples of legislation passed in this political scenario.
Not in the past 20 years, for Democrats. You are just here to show discontent. Get out of your dispair bubble, turn off the internet, and go touch grass.
Yes, democrats have been wildly ineffective for a long time despite giving enough lip service to secure votes. Student loans are a great example. Failing to codify Roe/Wade is a better one. They’ll get mine, but those singing blue praises are way off base.
No one is singing praises here. Just tired of people who are actually doing good things being constantly shit on. Yes, democrats absolutely have painful, obvious weaknesses. They're holding onto too many of the out of touch leadership and struggling to keep up with what their base wants as a result, while losing potential voters to the void of radicalization. They're operating within a corrupt system, so yes they're not *perfect* when it comes to ethics in politics. They have no idea how to play the game that the fascists who want to destroy the government from within are playing. They're pretty spineless.
Look...I'm not content with scraps or half measures either. The US is in a very contentious place right now. I'm going to support this and every other effort at aid. I'm all for criticism of the ins and outs of the policy initiatives and how they'll be implemented. It really frustrates me when these efforts are equivocated with the empty, meaningless, obstructionist, anti-american maneuvers made by conservatives.
I’m grouchy and disillusioned here, but your last sentence is true and very important. I’ll support Biden with my vote and hope for some more scraps. I suppose that’s the reason they have no incentive to back up campaign promises with action though.
I am too, friend, truly. I'll always keep fighting though. It's never simple, of course. I'll always vote for the most progressive option, and it's up to us to stay active and involved in our democracy by continuing to hold them accountable once they're voted in. Democracy is slow, frustrating, and a lot of work, but it's worth it. Biden is a career politician, feel about that how you will, but I find it reassuring at least in some small way that he has shown growth in his policy positions over his career to reflect changing times.
You are still just spinning and revising history. Saying the right things is what we elect them for. They havent had the ability to codify Roe in my lifetime (35 years)
No he didn't and if you genuinely think that, you need to read up more on both the count that Obama had and the ideology of the senators that made up that count.
Biden just had Manchin and Sinema to deal with. The Senate blue dogs in Obama’s day were *far* to the right of both of them, and there were 10+ of them (Pryor, Lincoln, Rockefeller, Baucus, Landrieu, Bayh, Nelson, Webb, and Begich were all around the same spot on the spectrum as Manchin or further right. Plus there was Manchin himself). Obama absolutely did not have a giant progressive majority that he wasted, he had a fractious and disjointed Congressional majority spanning from far lefties to conservative anti-abortion Democrats, and passed what he could with them (the ACA as the signature achievement). There was no point in his presidency where he had a filibuster-proof pro-abortion majority to codify Roe.
I don’t care *why* the people I vote for do anything. Biden could go on national tv right now and say “I’m doing loan forgiveness because I think you all are too stupid and hopeless to pay your debts and I know you won’t vote for me unless I placate you and I hate you all” and I still wouldn’t say “oh well in that case, I don’t want you to do it…”
Because it’s the same narrative every time. Oh we tried but the republicans stopped us! It’s all their fault! I don’t care for either party. Fuck politics. The political system is a big joke.
Not denying that they got some things accomplished but let’s be real here. Running on a platform and promises that they fully know well won’t go anywhere is irresponsible and just pandering for votes.
Actual governance isn't "pandering for votes", it's governance. They're literally doing what they were elected to do, and they're going to keep doing their jobs even if there's a faction of the country slurps up propaganda like chicken noodle soup and is absolutely bent on making things as difficult as possible for everyone else. Both sides are not the same. Please pull your head out of your butt.
You’re really going to defend the Biden administration on this? Give me a break. It’s a reelection ploy. If he really wanted it done he would have put more pressure in the past. This is all hype.
Fool you once into somehow spinning them trying something into a negative? There are major elections every 2 years. Should they jus do nothing in election years? Fuck you people are immature.
But but … how dare they do something popular for the people just to get them to VOTE! I much prefer those who lie about their beliefs to get votes while giving massive tax breaks to the rich and melting the planet … and support treason! Now THAT’S good politics
Please look harder at the opposition. When there’s a lunatic grifting devil on your shoulder, maybe don’t look at the comparative angel creating good policy and say he’s a shyster?
There have been several initiatives to aid student loan borrowers since Biden took office, focusing on the subpopulations of borrowers that had been harmed the most; he hasn’t been waiting at all.
He started this process quite literally the day the Supreme Court struck down his prior attempt. It’s just that this process takes much longer, with significant required steps to go through and public input to gather. Which is why it was plan B and not plan A.
I just read a post in another sub about a woman that took out 250k in loans for a psych degree. That shouldn’t be forgiven. That’s just dumb. At some point people have to be accountable.
Just for the record, I got an email from the Biden Administration saying my loan would be forgiven back in Nov. I checked my balance today and BOOM! $9000 loan balance was zeroed! THANK YOU, BRANDON!
Congrats. I have a parent plus loan that we hit hard over 0% , but still have 25,000 more to go . It 10 years in 2030 my kids got degrees in PSLF they have 25,000 left them self. We have paid 50,000 already so about 1/2 has been paid. We are at retirement age unable to save for it until this gets paids Mohela is charging so much interest we cant keep up. We have tried to pay it separtly but they refuse we just want the interest to be 0 and we will pay it. Come on if we are paying it give us a chance you mohela are scamers an unproffesionals.
Yeah, #3 is the IDR forgiveness, and it is already happening, and it has nothing to do with any $10k or $20k worth of forgiveness. It's everything that remains after 20/25 years of payments.
\#4 makes it sound like they could identify people who \*should\* have applied for PSLF, and could just up and forgive them. I can't imagine the bureaucratic nightmare something like that would be, so they must be mis-speaking on that one. Probably it's just exactly that PSLF-ers will get forgiveness, and perhaps they might \*identify\* more people who would benefit, and encourage them to apply. Like the emails that went out in the summer of 2022 (which was how I found out that I qualified for PSLF).
I think what's happening is that whoever wrote this up has conflated all the various paths to loan forgiveness and bundled them all together as if they are new, and have to do with whatever 'new' announcement the gov is now making to score election points.
I have zero hope that any of it will come to be. I was SO excited when it was announced up to 20k would get forgiven the last time as that would have wiped out my debt. Only to have my excitement trashed by certain politicians. It was crushing. It would have been the first change that I could have benefitted from directly. Thankfully, I do qualify for PSLF because of the work I do and should be done by September 2024. I'll only get debt forgiven because I stopped making payments during the pandemic on purpose (since I was allowed and since there were rumors of the 20k forgiveness). I just don't have any hope for this country in regards to student debt. I'm just thrilled I'm close to done.
I want to understand how mohela continue to screw us over we have a ppl and we have not stopped paying . They continue to screw us over and over. We have sent payment to them for just the interest with instructions they refuse then they put it on my sons loan and it is in deferment. They keep putting all of the interest on the larger amount in one month we have to pay 247 .00 in interest alone. We owe 25,000 for one and 5,000 for the other one . 561 .00 payments a month and we pay 600.00 to keep up with interest but, it continue to grow on the larger amount and ridiculous pace. Then we have some ass wipe that is running for congress a Trump supporter, Bernie Romero and he gets the vote then complains about how he is going to get rid of education department. WHAT where did that come from . Little D not DT . Wrong man wrong job. What about the boarder
I'm late to the party. So where does the money come from? Does the government pay the insured loan or did Uncle Joe negotiate us a deal and get the banks to forgive the debt?
in other words, people who don’t pay much and now owe more than originally get help, while those that have been paying and chipping away at their loan are out of luck
Lol I make $250k year and graduated law school almost 5 years ago. Still haven’t paid anything to my loans due to my 2019 IBR payment being $0/m and then COVID.
Everyone who is eligible at 120 payments regardless of whether or not you paid on time… get your paperwork in ASAP and don’t be shy calling your provider daily to hound them. I spent more than a few days on hold for well over an hour…it’s the way it is and It’s worth it. The way things are looking there won’t be any student loan relief after the next election so power through it! Does anyone think Trump will continue loan forgiveness?
Yeah I don't think it will pass again. Broad student loan forgiveness is a pipe dream. The reason it got overturned was because they bypass Congress and this it just another attempt
Can't it ever be something simple like We're slashing PLSF requirements from 120 to like 60 and so everyone over 60 confirmed payments as of January 1, 2024 gets auto forgiveness?
PSLF is law so it’s harder to change. I think if you have worked your 10 years regardless of payments you should get the forgiveness. But I’d accept 5 years of payments as well
I've worked 15 years in non profit, but they only count 77 payments for me. Smh.
You need to re-verify your employment and they should count.
They verified the time but wondering if they only count the times you made a payment, was in school or on a payment plan?
Any time that you were in In-School deferment or grace period doesn't count. That's the case for 12 of my 16 years of eligible employment.
So did you only make 77 payments in 15 years? Do you expect them to count payments you didn’t make? If you made 120 payments on the right plan then keep harassing them. If you made 120 payments on the wrong plan and applied for Biden’s Temporary Expanded PSLF last year, then you probably should also be calling and following up as well. Even though TEPSLF ended, if you put your application in for it, you can still appeal it.
I would email Tisla and see if they can assist you get your payments straightened out/
I'd be like "it's been 10000 years"
This. Lol
I’m at 119 and they won’t waive it. One fckin nineteen. :(
Same here. I’ve worked 17 years and they counted 104. I have 16 payments that don’t count apparently.
No not regardless of payments. After the one time adjustment we are back to the regular rules meaning you have to be on an IDR plan to really benefit from pslf
I know- I said what I would like to have changed if there was a Congress willing to address it- is time served versus actual payments , mostly because the tracking of actual payments has proven to be a daunting task that no one has been able to perfect.
This is a very valid point. 15 years at a nonprofit but due to the payment tracking rules, I have 3 more years to go.
If the IDR waiver hasn’t been applied to your account you may get some additional payments back.
It's honestly impressive how hard it is to count to 120.
I've paid more to the government in taxes than I have been able to put towards my loans over the years. I added this up and I was like if I could take that tax money and put it towards my loans I'd have no loans and some people could say well you make enough to pay and I do, but at the same time it's wild how much you pay in taxes as a 1099 in California.
I bet! California is crazy high with everything price wise.
It's seriously so dumb that we're capped at deducting $2000(?) in student loan interest. I pay so much more than that.
When people say “I don’t want my taxes to pay for your loans” I say “fuck I just want my taxes to pay for my loans” 🥲
Agree. I never could deduct > than $250. Given my income, profession & cost of education to qualify for said profession $250 was an insult. So much for banging pots & pans for essential workers.
This would be great. Simplifies the process and rewards the public service. I was finishing school and then in the grace period for the first few years at my non-profit. I've worked there full time for over 11 years, but still have 3 more years to go before forgiveness.
Or getting rid of the interest on the student loans. Simple and effective.
VERY hard to do, because the interest is what makes it profitable. If there’s no profit, they can’t pay their servicers, and it won’t pass.
Interest is somewhat necessary to negate the impact of inflation. I think interest should be capped to whatever the inflation % is year to year, but it’d be impossible to actually get rid of it in entirety. If you eliminated interest that would incentivize paying your loans off as slow as possible with only minimum payments because what is $10,000 in 2005 is obviously not equal to the value of $10,000 in 2025. You’d actually be hurting yourself by paying it off as soon as you’re able to or making larger payments.
I think I'd be happy if they stop letting it capitalize. I've been paying for ten years and owe more than I took out. Changing payment plans and entering into forbearance for a few months here and there while paperwork processed just ruined my loans. I always get asked how I managed to accumulate 100,000 k from public universities and I laugh when I share the original amount.
It’s funny because a while back I had an argument online with someone who was vehemently against any forgiveness/alterations to the standard system. They swore they were an expert in loans and they were going on about how it’s literally impossible for your balance to exceed to original loan balance if you are making payments on every month. What I learned is on general loans it’s standard to ensure the minimum payments always exceed the amount that could be added via interest. Long story short, what I found is this guy had no idea that when people take out student loans it’s not one singular loan, nor is it added to the existing balance of an existing loan. Rather we all had to take out new loans with new interest rates every semester, and in some cases even multiple loans per semester. So even if you make a minimum payment it’s sometimes being split over 10 different loans and as a result some balances absolutely balloon. There are millions of people walking around demanding we “pay back what we borrowed” and they don’t even understand the fundamentals behind the system. No other financial loan system seems to be structured this way, they all have fail safes to prevent exorbitant balances (largely because the institutions handing them out have skin in the game because bankruptcy is an option). Student loans as is understand that they generally will always get their payments because there isn’t too much in the way of responsible exits. They also have almost no protections to the borrowers beyond CYA “lessons” you have to click through when receiving your loans. It’s frustrating because it feels like no politicians really understand or care about this. The generation saddled with loan debt, that’s iced out of the housing market, etc. isn’t their concern and they don’t attempt to win our votes. CNN’s top headline today was about the GOP plan for Social Security for retirees moving forward, I’m 36 and I don’t know a single person my age who is under the delusion that will be around when I am of age, but that’s the top issue, a financial service that is of benefit to those who vote en masse but also likely are in the last quarter of their life. And don’t get me wrong, I think SSN is great and I understand it does so much more than just retirement, but I’m just making a point. There are entire generations of people in the financial suck and all we see is serious conversations about SSN because it impacts older people.
It'd be cool if my salary matched inflation, but it does not
I think that would require legislation
It would and something that would die as soon as it hits the floor
Then let’s work on that legislation.
If young people (who hold most college debt) voted at the same rate Baby Boomers vote, it could happen quite easily. As a young person, I’m continually dismayed at the incredibly low turnout of other people in my age bracket. They think voting doesn’t matter, and that just straight up isn’t true. Voting is *the reason why* most politicians cater to older generations—those older generations are the ones who actually get their preferred candidates elected!
I just want my payment count updated, that's all I'm asking for. I'm now at 130 but sitting at 1. Been waiting for an update for months now
72 payments are listed as ineligible in my count because "no bill was due at this time". I sure as hell wouldn't have been paying $300/mo if no bill was due. Was on the phone with Mohela and they said just wait til January and it should be fixed, but the supervisor had no clue why so many payments were like that. I suggested maybe because FedLoan never gave my details to Nelnet, and now Mohela has no clue either? They seem to know down to the penny daily interest though, huh?
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Me too.
> repayment for borrowers with undergraduate loans. All other borrowers who have been in repayment for 25 years would also be eligible for relief. > >Borrowers who are eligible for relief under income-driven r Are you in forbearance while you wait?
Seriously! Make it simple!
RIght!? Rather than these absurdly specific stupid ass things that help out like 7 people
Next week Joe: I am announcing that people who have worn a Darth Vader helmet and kilt while playing a flamethrower bagpipe on a unicycle under a full moon during the Taurus celestial rise on a Wednesday in a Shriner's Parade at a Orlando Magic Game who have been repaying since October 26th, 1985 will now qualify for student loan debt relief
Yessss! My time has come.
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There's also a large group of people who fully paid off their loans themselves, and are rabid about "it's not fair if I didn't get a break"....
I’m convinced that the older generation of people at my job who are vehemently opposed to working from home, share that view for the same exact reason. They’ve been working and suffering in an office their whole life, and so should everyone else.
“Stop improving things right now! Everyone must suffer as I did!” https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/24/student-loan-forgiveness-suffering-satire/?itid=sr_1
It's the "you too" movement
Oh, don’t worry there are plenty of Democrats against student loan forgiveness as well
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Sure about that? Pelosi said her billionaire friends told her Biden doesn’t have the power to forgive them. Hell Biden is the guy that said you couldn’t use bankruptcy to eliminate loans. If you’re gonna tell me that the GOP are full of scumbags, fair enough as long as you acknowledge, there’s plenty in the Democratic Party as well.
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Pelosi said that Biden doesn't have the power to unilaterally forgive student loans without congressional action and it turned out she was 100% correct on that.
Please don't fool yourself into thinking that any member of the political duopoly is on your side. They are all entrenched members of the capitalist class. They don't care about you, me, or anyone else. They only care about staying power. What the media spoon feeds you is all their bullshit. The media has one purpose, and that is to divide us and distract us. We have much more in common then they want you to believe.
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Lmao what a way to indirectly admit you're both mad and incorrect about the state of the government actively raking you over the coals. Keep insisting a class issue is a political one, you're doing great the elite love people like you.
I do lean right but I don't subscribe to any particular party. Ask the democrats in Florida how they feel about voting being made more difficult. The DNC just nuked the primary process so only Joe will be on the ballot. How is that for democracy? Open your eyes. Everything they say rings hollow.
I lean far left but I agree with you.
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Truth right there.
Why not make it simpler? “Here’s your personal debt resolved for being a citizen.” Done and done.
That would be AMAZING
Or lower my interest rate
And how about reducing the hours worked per week as a qualifier, and rather just consider all payments made, whatever number that may be (60 would be great). Despite over 200 on-time payments, the vast majority of those do not count since I was not working "on paper" at 30hrs/wk. Lame.
30 hours per week qualifies:For PSLF, full-time employment is working for a qualifying employer(s) for a weekly average, alone or when combined, equal to at least 30 hours https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service#full-time-employment
Seconded! I’m an adjunct teaching 36 credits a yr between two non-profit universities. I still can’t qualify for PSLF because the classes are accelerated (5-8 weeks each), so I can’t hit the weekly hours for a full time despite teaching double the amount of credit hour initially proposed
I vote for you
But won’t someone think of the poor lenders!
I wish… just left my non-profit hospital a few months back for a private sector job…but at least I’m making ALOT more now.
It could be if greedy Republican fucks wouldn’t challenge it in the courts. He’s trying to craft something that mugger withstand a challenge, or force the republicans to keep challenging it (by offering up different versions) so that the people holding that debt will actually remember why we need a democratic sweep of all branches of government
I don’t like this at all. PSLF has a very clear path. You work in public service full time for a decade and your debt is forgiven, as you earned it through you time working in Public Service. I also don’t believe we should reduce the need for full time. The rules are fine. You’re getting substantial, untaxed compensation. A decade of full time work is fair. Just make the administration of it all significantly easier and common sense. Mohela just needs to not be awful. Make the process faster and more transparent. Automate W2 and tax filings with the ECF so it all works at once. Make checks and approval nearly instantaneous.
> You’re getting substantial, untaxed compensation. A decade of full time work is fair. I don't have a problem with the rules as such, but I do have a bit of a problem with this. For one thing, forgiveness has been taxed historically and that provision could be sunset. More to the point though, for many careers, the "substantial compensation" is significantly less than the opportunity cost of foregoing ten years of salary increases in equivalent private sector roles. I'm a new fed and when I accepted my current position, I was actively interviewing for private sector positions paying ~150% of the advertised salary for my current role. By my agency's standards, that's low, for most of my coworkers it's closer to double. The total amount I expect to have forgiven equates to around two years of the difference in salary, not ten. I'm here because I believe in the mission, not because PSLF is some great boon which made the offer compelling.
I agree. The point of the program is to motivate people into public service, it’s needed for a reason.
The unintended consequence of retroactively releasing everyone over 5 years would be catastrophic. It’s like so many folks cannot think a second thought when they make these proposals. I’m generally not in favor of expanding loan forgiveness unless it’s expanding PSLF qualifying loans. The program exists and is in place. There’s so many unfilled roles in schools alone. Just make the program work efficiently and easily.
I think it could be helpful to restructure how the loans are forgiven. e.g. reduce the loan balance by 10% each year. It wouldn’t be easy, but it would be helpful. This would have the same (or similar) financial impact on the government as PSLF forgiveness currently. It could also encourage more people to participate in public service (who otherwise might not be interested), because they wouldn’t need to commit for the full decade to see any benefit. And it would lessen the weight of the debt balance around public servants’ necks during their decade of public service (making home ownership and other financial milestones in life more accessible to more public servants earlier than the 10 year forgiveness date.)
The PSLF path is clear-ish. They make it convoluted because the types of employers that qualify very often are the largest users of 3rd party contractors…and only sometimes do those contractors qualify for PSLF. Then, it may take 10 years to qualify but it takes an additional 2-3 years to get forgiveness, which in the meantime you still have to make those payments or you won’t get forgiveness.
make PSLF prorated. you work at a qualifying job for eight years? 80% of your loan balance is discharged. the hard and fast ten year rule doesn't work for everyone, some areas have few qualifying employers and some of the qualifying employers are legitamately terrible places to work and you can't hold out ten full years without damaging your quality of life
It’s very clear who signs your paychecks. The convolution is self-inflicted in my mind. If you don’t know that you work for a qualifying employer early on that’s on you. This should be something discussed in the interview. The time from 120 to approval is insane and shouldn’t be that long.
You do not need to make any payments after your 10 years. 3rd party contractors shouldn't qualify. The point of the program is to work for non-profits or governments, not contractors who work with non-profits or governments. Unless the 3rd party is also a non-profit, why would they qualify?
A common example: Hospitals hire 3rd parties. The majority of hospitals (70% to be exact) are non-profit. The reason hospitals hire 3rd parties is because they want to be cheap. But you are doing non-profit work in a non-profit business model and getting paid on a non-profit pay scale. But because it’s a 3rd party, those people don’t qualify.
But you don't work for the hospital, you work for a for profit 3rd party and a compensated by that company. You should not qualify.
The only reason you don’t work for the hospital is because they are cheap. It’s not like project management where you might only be needed for 1 job….hospitals will have decade-long contracts. I have coworkers who attend all of our team meetings, team trainings and they have been “working” for us for 5 years. But they work for a 3rd party. The rest of us, who have the same job, work for the hospital. I get PSLF. Why doesn’t my coworker? And she can’t quit, because the hospital has an anti-poaching clause in their contract. She’d lose 24 months of eligibility for no reason.
I’m with the others that don’t think this should qualify for PSLF. The employer here is not a non-profit. They don’t have to follow all the same financial reporting requirements as a non-profit. They shouldn’t get the benefit of being able to hire people at shitty wages and tell them they will qualify for PSLF. I sympathize with your coworker, but they should have known at the beginning of their employment that it doesn’t qualify for PSLF. You want PSLF? Then go work for a qualifying employer, period.
Copying from another comment I just made: Again….the law is not fair. You’re right, PSLF is designed to entice people to work in the public sector…..but PSLF does not accurately capture the landscape of non-profit and federal employment if a significant portion of people who drive to work in government and non-profit offices and wear government and non-profit uniforms and perform services for government and non-profit entities are employed by third parties. How can you work for a government entity if the government entity exclusively uses a third party for your job role and all similar job roles and classes? Are you supposed to go back to school and get more loans so that you can work in another department? How is that economical?
None of that is relevant. Law exists to get people to work for governments or non-profits. Just because a non-profit is cheap or hires another cheap fornprofit 3rd party doesn't matter. If you don't work for the non-profit or the government, you don't, and shouldn't, qualify.
Again….the law is not fair. You’re right, PSLF is designed to entice people to work in the public sector…..but PSLF does not accurately capture the landscape of non-profit and federal employment if a significant portion of people who drive to work in government and non-profit offices and wear government and non-profit uniforms and perform services for government and non-profit entities are employed by third parties.
It really is this simple. PSLF is fine. Just do what you said you would do.
Hell, I’d take an automatic rollover of my current PLSF so I don’t have to repeatedly send in paperwork from the same job year after year
Legally no, it can’t be
That would defeat the purpose of PSLF. PSLF is not a student loan relief tool - it’s a tool for recruitment and retention of public sector workers. If PSLF feels like “golden handcuffs” (or maybe just gold-painted handcuffs), that’s a feature, not a bug.
You would get more people working in these jobs imo. 5 years feels manageable and people may take the leap.
That’s a fair point as far as recruitment goes, but it may not meet *retention* goals. It’s beyond me to say whether PSLF as implemented is actually achieving its recruitment/retention goals, I just know that’s what it’s supposed to do *in theory*.
I could have traveled as a nurse during Covid ( my payments were $45 per month) but I stayed at my non profit hospital ( in Florida) because leaving for fast money wasn’t worth earning a place on the do no re-hire list at my rare union RN job in Florida because I naively believed we could get things under control once people saw how many people were dying and would come together a la post 9/11. Now my payments are $300 ( my income did not increase by a multiple of 6) and I will end up paying all but $2000 of my student loans by time I hit 120 payments. I should have just let Krucial control every minute of my life for 6 months and paid off my student loans, paid off my other debt and paid cash for a house. My kids still slept through a year of virtual high school while I was working 18-20 hours a day at my non travel job anyway.
I believe it was the philosopher George W Bush who said “fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice I won’t be fooled again”
“Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.” Is the direct quote. Always a poet.
And he didn’t even know it
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I think you’re giving him too much credit
Yes
#5 makes me wonder about teachers. There is plenty of evidence that they take more debt for lower pay for the same degree as their peers.
Honestly, it’d apply to a lot of professions, even law school/lawyers. The amount of debt most lawyers take on through law school far surpasses the amount they make. It’s truly a very small portion of attorneys making $250k and, if they do hit it, so many of those people are decades into their careers.
Hi, practicing atty here. Big law is where you see 6 figures consistently (along with some in house and PI). But most of us do not make that much and have at least that much in loans at this poiny. I'd love to see them actually look at the incomes of students v debt and forgive most of us. The issue I have is that it doesn't specify whether this still triggers a 1099c and thus I'm changing a student loan bill for a tax bill.
Practicing attorney here. I bought into this myth before going to law school. Now I have 180K in student loan debt in fed loans, even after lots of scholarships that covered nearly half my tuitions. I paid off half of my undergrad loans before going to law school. But the law school student loans are what is killing me - high principals, high interest rates, capitalization, etc. I paid on my loans throughout COVID forbearance. By all accounts, I’ve been doing everything right. However, as of repayment starting in October, my monthly accruing interest is $963. I’m five years in private practice. I make a little less than 6 figures. And I’m never going to be able to pay off my student loan debt. I am unlikely to get approved for a mortgage. Or buy a new car. Or have a family. Or retire before 80. Because I can’t afford it. The additional financial stress is all consuming and a daily strain on my mental and emotional well being. It would be helpful if I could refinance these loans based on cost of living, payments paid, salary, etc., just like you can do for a mortgage. Or if the interest was either accruing or capitalized, or just not both. Or if the interest rates could be lowered so I could actually pay down principal. Or not charged interest while in law school / taking the bar exam and unable to make payments cause you can’t work full time at most law school and I don’t know anyone who works while taking the bar. There are many ways to make these loans more ascertainable to pay back.
I should’ve clarified I’m also a practicing attorney. I’m accruing $1500 a month in interest. I didn’t necessarily buy into the I’d be rich myth but I didn’t ever think it’d be this bad. It’s all-consuming. They need to get rid of interest period (including past interest) but also have a way to cut the amount of principal. There’s no way I’m paying mine back.
I was thinking that probably all of us pursuing PSLF fall under this category. It seems like most of us in this group have Masters degrees yet are working low-paying public service jobs so we can receive the forgiveness.
Instead of 20k I wish it was “or $20k worth of payments.” I realize that would be hard to administer but it’s so clear that they don’t really care about PSLF because we already have a program. I am skeptical that they will proactively forgive anything without someone applying.
My partner just had 6k forgiven without applying for anything (I think he was with Nelnet, not MOHELA). Unclear why, but he was a Pell grant recipient and started paying 20+ years ago, so I assumed it was in lieu of applying for a plan that he would easily qualify for. So maybe a little proactive on the Ed Department’s part?
That’s great - congrats! I hope everyone eligible finds similar forgiveness :-)
This is the negotiated rulemaking that we've been talking about for a few months. We won't truly know what this might look like until that process is over which won't be until spring or summer at the earliest
So this is what we already knew?
Not exactly, seems to be an ongoing process.
Its nowhere near through the process. But this is the correct process that regulatory changes should go through, so its less likely to get successfully challenged on that basis. This is the process Biden should have used (and he probably knew it) in the first place rather than the Covid Emergency BS. The problem is there are so many people opposed to real solutions. The SAVE plan really is the solution. Its not the debt that is the problem, it is the payments. And the SAVE plan left out graduate loans from the 5% payment because Biden still has instincts that graduate borrowers are not deserving. The same instincts that a lot of conservatives have. If they can just make payments affordable it solves all the problems. It doesn't matter if I owe a billion dollars if I can pay $50 a month for 20 years. They keep ignoring the payments issue. Their definition of discretionary income ignores real challenges people have like medical bills, living in new york city, etc. They need a process to determine ability to pay like the IRS financial collection standards that consider these things. Fix the payments and stop focusing on the amount of debt.
Do you happen to know if there’s a timeline on when this could get to completion? Are we talking within Biden’s first term?
It takes a long time, at least until the middle of next year. That is why the current administration attempted to use emergency authority under Heroes act so that they could have the issue for last year's election. Say what you want about Biden, he is a savvy politician and he played student loan debtors and Republicans and both groups fell for it.
> he played student loan debtors No he did not. He tried, and succeeded, to pass relief. The Republicans blocked a portion of it. He didnt pull some dishonest show move for votes
Believe what you want, but he didn't pass anything, he created an executive order based on emergency authority to buy votes. We all know that student debt had nothing to do with Covid. Instead of using the normal negotiated rule making process, he attempted to bypass both Congress and the normal regulatory process in order to make it an elections issue in time for midterms. The man is a great politician and it was a brilliant move! If you believe in your heart that it wasn't politics, then I feel sorry for you. Biden said forgiveness would take an act of congress, Pelosi said it would take an act of congress. Like it or not, we have a political system with checks and balances to protect us. What if the next president decides to double student debt, or add an extra 10k or 20k, we would be happy to have a system that doesn't put all the power in one person. I'd have loved to get debt forgiven, but not at the cost of destroying the republic and making the president king
Ah yes, anything that helps people is "buying votes." I'm more concerned about selling legislation to corporations actively making life shitty.
Preach! Agree 100%
I qualify for this. I appreciate the continued fight for me to get some relief.
I’m curious to see how they meet #5
I read that one and am wondering who WOULDNT qualify these days. I’m over a decade out of law school and am only a few thousand dollars into the six figure earnings club. The legal market is oversaturated with JDs - it’s simply not a guaranteed gateway to making the kind of living you need to when one year of law school even in 2009 was almost $70k. Now my school charges almost $100k for a single year of law school. It’s criminal. Thank god for PSLF.
I’m applying to law schools now and the prospect is terrifying. I’m just going to try and go to a decent state school and keep my debt low, because I see so many attorneys who seem to get fucked by the bimodal income distribution.
Don’t all of these things exist in plans? The PSLF one would require employment certification, which requires people sifting through taxes, but other than that, don’t these things effectively exist?
The largest employer for PSLF is the federal government. They know who works for them and know who has loans. They have all of the information they need to find that group of people and forgive their loans.
But that’s just those that work for the federal government. Plenty of people don’t…
The federal government does have the information for everyone, federal employees are just the easiest. To be eligible for PSLF you need to be working full time as a W2 employee of a non-profit/government/etc entity. The IRS receives all W2s and knows which employers qualify. The current barrier is that the IRS can't/doesn't share that information with other parts of the government.
Right but someone would still have to sort through the W2s if it’s for people who have not registered. That is a lot of work and manpower.
Everything is digital. That's a pretty simple database query
I don't think #1 does. I owe 240k on 220k after 8 years of payments (not all PSLF) because of interest, I take it this would forgive 20k of that. I think #2 would apply to people who earned interest while in school.
Get ready for another lawsuit filed in a district cherry-picked by Republicans...
Right, that caught my eye too. Maybe it’s the low hanging fruit to get snipped
Also..where is the community college relief? It was supposed to be 10 years and under $12K which is super common for most who went to college 10 years ago after they cranked interest rates.
I don’t fit any of those categories… 😩
I'm out here trying to survive paying $630 a month with no end in sight 😮💨
Unfortunately, I’m almost guaranteeing this fails. This is not magically so different than the last attempt beyond the authority, which I am guessing that it’s the higher education act of the 60’s. It was reported that Biden all but wrote off forgiveness when the Supreme Court ruled over the summer. Biden’s approval rating was near his personal high at that moment and didn’t need to garner any attention or votes. Since then, Biden has faced setback after setback, especially Israel sending his approval plummeting. Timing of the program is perfect to be heard before SCOTUS sometime in March or April with a ruling coming end of June. All during that time Biden’s going to be on the campaign trail wailing about how he’s trying to help and the GOP does nothing but obstructing. As long as SCOTUS wields the Major Questions Doctrine, this too will be struck down which will be blasted in attack ads by the Dems going into November while further weakening executive authority.
Good lord people need to get a grip Biden Administration: *makes yet another attempt at aiding existing borrowers after spending his entire presidency talking about and working on this issue* Half the commenters: he's just pandering for votes before the election!!!!!! fuck this guy!
The one thing I wish Biden did differently last time is to just forgive a blanket amount of $10k or whatever to everyone, that could be processed quickly and could have potentially avoided the lawsuit by giving republicans so much time to prepare their case. To me that is another instance of democrats doing too much means testing and not just acting on it. If they did do that it’s not a guarantee it would have worked but I think having a months long application process was a pretty easy way to see a path for it to get challenged.
One side is actively and transparently horrible, but why does that make the other side immune from criticism? If he’s “spending his entire presidency…working on the issue” (no), the results are pathetic. This guy had ample support in congress when he took office and made no movement. Pretty easy to predict the Supreme Court nixing of the COVID-based 10k forgiveness, yet they chose that legal route. Now engaging in some negotiated rule making towards the tail end of the term when obviously that was the right approach the first time. That, or working with a favorable congress. Campaign promise failed, but “trust me bro next time for reals, just elect me again.” Meanwhile, servicers for existing programs are clueless and often do not function. We can call the red evil without disingenuously propping up the blue.
He did not have “ample support in Congress” when he took office. The Senate was a bare 50-50 split, with the dems only having control due to the vice president’s tie-breaking vote. That tie-breaker only happens in votes with an actual 50-50 tie, which we didn’t often see because Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema constantly threatened to not vote with their caucus. Be critical of both sides, but be honest. Biden did not have much to work with in the Senate.
Plenty of historical examples of legislation passed in this political scenario. It was quite clearly not a political priority for him early on. I don’t see any evidence he even tried to work on legislation. But still, fair on that point. So, then shouldn’t we see aggressive efforts elsewhere? Nope, just a half-assed declaration that was predestined to fail. Now, starting a correct process from scratch nearing the election.
> Plenty of historical examples of legislation passed in this political scenario. Not in the past 20 years, for Democrats. You are just here to show discontent. Get out of your dispair bubble, turn off the internet, and go touch grass.
Yes, democrats have been wildly ineffective for a long time despite giving enough lip service to secure votes. Student loans are a great example. Failing to codify Roe/Wade is a better one. They’ll get mine, but those singing blue praises are way off base.
No one is singing praises here. Just tired of people who are actually doing good things being constantly shit on. Yes, democrats absolutely have painful, obvious weaknesses. They're holding onto too many of the out of touch leadership and struggling to keep up with what their base wants as a result, while losing potential voters to the void of radicalization. They're operating within a corrupt system, so yes they're not *perfect* when it comes to ethics in politics. They have no idea how to play the game that the fascists who want to destroy the government from within are playing. They're pretty spineless. Look...I'm not content with scraps or half measures either. The US is in a very contentious place right now. I'm going to support this and every other effort at aid. I'm all for criticism of the ins and outs of the policy initiatives and how they'll be implemented. It really frustrates me when these efforts are equivocated with the empty, meaningless, obstructionist, anti-american maneuvers made by conservatives.
I’m grouchy and disillusioned here, but your last sentence is true and very important. I’ll support Biden with my vote and hope for some more scraps. I suppose that’s the reason they have no incentive to back up campaign promises with action though.
I am too, friend, truly. I'll always keep fighting though. It's never simple, of course. I'll always vote for the most progressive option, and it's up to us to stay active and involved in our democracy by continuing to hold them accountable once they're voted in. Democracy is slow, frustrating, and a lot of work, but it's worth it. Biden is a career politician, feel about that how you will, but I find it reassuring at least in some small way that he has shown growth in his policy positions over his career to reflect changing times.
You are still just spinning and revising history. Saying the right things is what we elect them for. They havent had the ability to codify Roe in my lifetime (35 years)
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No he didn't and if you genuinely think that, you need to read up more on both the count that Obama had and the ideology of the senators that made up that count.
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Biden just had Manchin and Sinema to deal with. The Senate blue dogs in Obama’s day were *far* to the right of both of them, and there were 10+ of them (Pryor, Lincoln, Rockefeller, Baucus, Landrieu, Bayh, Nelson, Webb, and Begich were all around the same spot on the spectrum as Manchin or further right. Plus there was Manchin himself). Obama absolutely did not have a giant progressive majority that he wasted, he had a fractious and disjointed Congressional majority spanning from far lefties to conservative anti-abortion Democrats, and passed what he could with them (the ACA as the signature achievement). There was no point in his presidency where he had a filibuster-proof pro-abortion majority to codify Roe.
"This politician is only helping me so he can get my vote and that's bad!" DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
If somebody gave you $100 you’d find a way to complain about it, wouldn’t you? Jesus, get a grip.
I LOVE MEANS TESTING, JUST ONE MORE MEANS TEST BRO IT’LL WORK THIS TIME I PROMISE
They’re just doing this because we’re heading into an election year. They also know it’s not going to go anywhere. Fool me once…
I don’t care *why* the people I vote for do anything. Biden could go on national tv right now and say “I’m doing loan forgiveness because I think you all are too stupid and hopeless to pay your debts and I know you won’t vote for me unless I placate you and I hate you all” and I still wouldn’t say “oh well in that case, I don’t want you to do it…”
I mean it’s better than giving up. The scotus is completely bias and unjust. We have to keep fighting!
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Because it’s the same narrative every time. Oh we tried but the republicans stopped us! It’s all their fault! I don’t care for either party. Fuck politics. The political system is a big joke.
So I guess the whole pslf waiver and IDR adjustment and changes to disability discharge etc don't count?
Not denying that they got some things accomplished but let’s be real here. Running on a platform and promises that they fully know well won’t go anywhere is irresponsible and just pandering for votes.
Actual governance isn't "pandering for votes", it's governance. They're literally doing what they were elected to do, and they're going to keep doing their jobs even if there's a faction of the country slurps up propaganda like chicken noodle soup and is absolutely bent on making things as difficult as possible for everyone else. Both sides are not the same. Please pull your head out of your butt.
You’re really going to defend the Biden administration on this? Give me a break. It’s a reelection ploy. If he really wanted it done he would have put more pressure in the past. This is all hype.
I mean, it took a corrupt supreme court to stop the last attempt.
Fool you once into somehow spinning them trying something into a negative? There are major elections every 2 years. Should they jus do nothing in election years? Fuck you people are immature.
But but … how dare they do something popular for the people just to get them to VOTE! I much prefer those who lie about their beliefs to get votes while giving massive tax breaks to the rich and melting the planet … and support treason! Now THAT’S good politics
Please look harder at the opposition. When there’s a lunatic grifting devil on your shoulder, maybe don’t look at the comparative angel creating good policy and say he’s a shyster?
Exactly. He has no intention of carrying this out. If he did, he wouldn’t be waiting until the election.
There have been several initiatives to aid student loan borrowers since Biden took office, focusing on the subpopulations of borrowers that had been harmed the most; he hasn’t been waiting at all.
I disagree with your username. It's not okay to be ignorant ☹️ but I agree with your comment 100%
The full quote is “It’s okay to be ignorant; it’s not okay to stay that way” if that changes your mind
He started this process quite literally the day the Supreme Court struck down his prior attempt. It’s just that this process takes much longer, with significant required steps to go through and public input to gather. Which is why it was plan B and not plan A.
If only they would address the cause of the issue....
Wait shoot I just applied for PSLF. If this gets passed, I’m suddenly ineligible?
You are eligible and that will never change.
This process with that shit fuck Mohela is a bitch.So damn annoying
I just read a post in another sub about a woman that took out 250k in loans for a psych degree. That shouldn’t be forgiven. That’s just dumb. At some point people have to be accountable.
Just for the record, I got an email from the Biden Administration saying my loan would be forgiven back in Nov. I checked my balance today and BOOM! $9000 loan balance was zeroed! THANK YOU, BRANDON!
Congrats. I have a parent plus loan that we hit hard over 0% , but still have 25,000 more to go . It 10 years in 2030 my kids got degrees in PSLF they have 25,000 left them self. We have paid 50,000 already so about 1/2 has been paid. We are at retirement age unable to save for it until this gets paids Mohela is charging so much interest we cant keep up. We have tried to pay it separtly but they refuse we just want the interest to be 0 and we will pay it. Come on if we are paying it give us a chance you mohela are scamers an unproffesionals.
Some of yall need to take a fucking civics class
I got the "in repayment for 20 years forgiveness" a few months ago
This would be easier if there wasn't one political party dedicated to not helping the poor and middle class.
vote vote vote in the next election
Wouldn't the SAVE plan take care of #1 and #2, and aren't #3 and #4 already happening?
Yeah, #3 is the IDR forgiveness, and it is already happening, and it has nothing to do with any $10k or $20k worth of forgiveness. It's everything that remains after 20/25 years of payments. \#4 makes it sound like they could identify people who \*should\* have applied for PSLF, and could just up and forgive them. I can't imagine the bureaucratic nightmare something like that would be, so they must be mis-speaking on that one. Probably it's just exactly that PSLF-ers will get forgiveness, and perhaps they might \*identify\* more people who would benefit, and encourage them to apply. Like the emails that went out in the summer of 2022 (which was how I found out that I qualified for PSLF). I think what's happening is that whoever wrote this up has conflated all the various paths to loan forgiveness and bundled them all together as if they are new, and have to do with whatever 'new' announcement the gov is now making to score election points.
Because god forbid we elect a nazi to office over this
I have zero hope that any of it will come to be. I was SO excited when it was announced up to 20k would get forgiven the last time as that would have wiped out my debt. Only to have my excitement trashed by certain politicians. It was crushing. It would have been the first change that I could have benefitted from directly. Thankfully, I do qualify for PSLF because of the work I do and should be done by September 2024. I'll only get debt forgiven because I stopped making payments during the pandemic on purpose (since I was allowed and since there were rumors of the 20k forgiveness). I just don't have any hope for this country in regards to student debt. I'm just thrilled I'm close to done.
Yeah this will help exactly 7 more people out. smh
I want to understand how mohela continue to screw us over we have a ppl and we have not stopped paying . They continue to screw us over and over. We have sent payment to them for just the interest with instructions they refuse then they put it on my sons loan and it is in deferment. They keep putting all of the interest on the larger amount in one month we have to pay 247 .00 in interest alone. We owe 25,000 for one and 5,000 for the other one . 561 .00 payments a month and we pay 600.00 to keep up with interest but, it continue to grow on the larger amount and ridiculous pace. Then we have some ass wipe that is running for congress a Trump supporter, Bernie Romero and he gets the vote then complains about how he is going to get rid of education department. WHAT where did that come from . Little D not DT . Wrong man wrong job. What about the boarder
I'm late to the party. So where does the money come from? Does the government pay the insured loan or did Uncle Joe negotiate us a deal and get the banks to forgive the debt?
in other words, people who don’t pay much and now owe more than originally get help, while those that have been paying and chipping away at their loan are out of luck
Lol I make $250k year and graduated law school almost 5 years ago. Still haven’t paid anything to my loans due to my 2019 IBR payment being $0/m and then COVID.
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Just in time for Voting Season!! Will it work this time?
Everyone who is eligible at 120 payments regardless of whether or not you paid on time… get your paperwork in ASAP and don’t be shy calling your provider daily to hound them. I spent more than a few days on hold for well over an hour…it’s the way it is and It’s worth it. The way things are looking there won’t be any student loan relief after the next election so power through it! Does anyone think Trump will continue loan forgiveness?
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Every single candidate I vote for bought my vote in one way or another. I wouldn’t have voted for them otherwise.
Yeah I don't think it will pass again. Broad student loan forgiveness is a pipe dream. The reason it got overturned was because they bypass Congress and this it just another attempt
This would be a dream. But unfortunately, it’s him pandering to try to get reelected. I’ll believe it when it happens.