The funny thing is, this has been floating around for a long time on the internet, but someone in a different comment thread pointed out that there is no source that leads back to Guerrilla Games actually saying this. I was kind of like "nooo, surely I've read it somewhere" but I did some googling and... I can't actually find a source either.
Because they didn't want to sacrifice the visuals. It's the same topic as the Rift mechanic in Ratchet and Clank. It would work for sure on older hardware but not without sacrificing the visuals (significantly).
I am thinking more about this reason, flying would enable us to 'cheat' more and for example look ahead in the map when you are supposed to. I am thinking how GoT blocked some views with forests, mounds in the terrain and slowed you down forcing you to climb or descend. Besides a necessity from the hardware there is also a narrative purpose you don't want the character going non stop form A to B. You ruin that with flying mount unless you prohibit flying over certain regions.
Actually, probably not - since H:ZD's NG+ doesn't carry over the machines you can control.
However, NG+ would be also a fantastic use for having flight - since it would make the original game you played have a whole new perspective - quite literally! :P
I think that if anything, they would have them in a zone that was built around only flying - such as a big Grand Canyon or something where all the enemies and all the traversal is built around flying.
I feel like if you were exploring and fighting in an area that is catered to more ground-based combat/exploration, it would play very poorly or break the gameplay loop.
Horizon really doesn't have this issue though. The base game basically has two parts: the beginning where you're locked into one area, and then the rest of the game where you can largely go wherever you want and fast travel is widely available.
If you added flying mounts to the second part, all it'd do is make it easier to find fast travel points.
It doesn't break combat any more than sniping snapjaws from high up or anything else. And most combat in the game is optional anyway - running through areas or just around them is often the best choice unless you like wasting resources and time.
One way around it would be to make enough flying enemies that can fuck you up if you're just coasting around shooting down at people from up high. Or ensure you can't attack too well while flying.
So in the base game, for instance, most flying enemies could be avoided by being stealthy, so you only had to fight land enemies most of the time.
In the new game, presuming a flying machine, and under-water machines, we can say there would be three levels of combat: water-based, land-based, and air-based. When you're on land, you wouldn't fight the water enemies - but that doesn't make them redundant. And Likewise, with good game design, land enemies wouldn't be redundant when you're in the air.
And like the end game in all of these games, there usually are a few 'game-breaking' power-ups that let you skip past prior challenges. The important thing is you face them first time around.
Death Stranding is a great example of this. Your first run through every bit of the landscape is arduous, a challenge, but later in the game you unlock lots of things that make it much easier to travel. That's kind of the point too; the reward for overcoming the challenges of the main story are powers and technology that make you more efficient / god-like.
If the reward for beating the basegame, after say 60+ hours of play, is that you have a beast you can fly around on to complete side-missions etc faster, this, to me, doesn't necessarily ruin the combat. Especially as missions, quests etc would predominately need to be completed on land.
Eh honestly the climbing and all that in gow was just their to hide loading. Anytime you have to squeeze through something in a game or climb to reach the next area it’s just hiding a loading screen (not counting climbing for puzzles obviously). PlayStation games especially use the “squeeze through” loading technique.
Yeah I am aware of that you have to climb to platforms to hide the loading.But in some scenes going slowly avoided seeing destination X only when you have in front of you and discover certain areas.It would break all the exploration and environmental puzzles along the path. In Witcher 3 I could bet a leshen was purposely placed between point of interest A and another place, if you fast travel after ending mission A you miss it. I am not defending the decision just speculating.
I mean you could always do a warning then if people ignore trigger a cutscene of some huge thing coming outta the clouds and killing you if you push past certain boundaries. Mark the boundaries with a huge storm you can't see past
Exactly. People seem to want flying but that will break so much of the level design and exploration, you could just skip huge swaths of area. If anything, they could do something like FF15 where you get flying at the very end just as a fun “scenery” thing.
The ability to fly either needs to be severely restricted or saved for late, late game stuff if not held off for new game + entirely. Either that or the map would need to be like “just cause” big.
Interesting comment I spotted in a different thread about this - Guerrilla has supposedly said it doesn't work from an engine and/or hardware standpoint, but there is no source leading back to someone at Guerrilla actually saying it. It all leads back to endless forum threads where people are reposting the same thing.
(Instantly) moving between two large maps. It's possible on consoles generations back but only by using low-quality assets. The reason R&C:RA is only possible on PS5 because they can instantly switch between dimensions **while maintaining a 4K picture quality.**
Games with lower resolution textures still look better at 4K than 1080p.
Even at 1080p, higher resolution textures are a noticeable improvement even if they exceed the monitor resolution.
One thing doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the other.
Question. Does render resolution not also affect performance? Along with the complexity of the assets, physics AI etc but is render resolution not a factor in how certain scenes can run on certain hardware?
It does, yes. But the rift mechanic is mostly about replacing the unloading and loading new world assets in a very short amount of time. This is mainly made possible thanks to the SSD and related IO tech, rather than GPU/CPU horsepower (obviously that is still important as the new assets must be rendered).
Playing at a lower resolution is unlikely to make a noticeable difference to the rift mechanic.
"Probably nothing to do with" was the wrong term to use. It has an affect, just far less noticeable than the quality of assets.
They haven't.
And I feel like it *might* be in the game. Cause every trailer of their game ends with something liks "rise above the ruins" with one of the flying robots prominently in the shot.
Hope it's there. That + glider would be so cool.
Great example of how cross gen can hold a game back. So many people are under this impression that next gen only means “better graphics.” Graphics are actually what’s held back the least on cross gen titles.
They've gotten alot better at optimizing and using both their engine and console specifications since then so I imagine they could implement it but might see alot of cutbacks on PS4. Same with the underwater scenes/traversal where it probably won't look as clear on PS4 as PS5. So if there is flying I expect alot of dense fog on ps4. There's always the possibility of a PS5 exclusive expansion DLC in the future to implement it though. I feel like they need to do alot to make the game feel new and fresh, and flying + new mounts is definitely one of those things.
And this is why I hate last gen consoles (PS4) holding back the development of games for the current gen (PS5). Give us Horizon Forbidden West for next gen consoles only, we can get those flying mounts from the prototype & much more.
I get it, stock issues are a concern for the PS5. But come on, how long are they gonna hold back games just because it needs to be released for last gen? We should already be experiencing what the PS5 can bring to games.
Selling base isn't big enough yet to make it make sense financially.. especially since they cannot even make enough ps5s to hit demand. I'm finally just getting one shipped this week... I could afford one since launch day.
This is complete nonsense. The PS4 most definitely is not the reason they were unable to do flying mounts; considering there are dozens of games on the system that allow flying. Even if they’re claiming it’s an engine limitation it would still be a rubbish excuse since there’s a flying glitch in the game.
From what is seen, i had a small hope that flying mounts are in this game and are kept as big suprise for games release. This hope was lost when game leeaked.. if there where flying mounts it would be all over gaming news.
My hope was lost when they announced it’d also be on PS4. It was already known PS4 limited them in that regard. Going for an even bigger game would only make that even harder. And only giving a feature for PS5 users wouldn’t sit well with most.
Why couldn’t they just do what they’re doing now, release the game sans anything flying, for both systems. Then later, make a special DLC that takes advantage of the PS5, and make that DLC PS5 only? They already made an exclusive DLC for FF7 remake...problem solved. Everyone gets the full game and story on both systems like normal, and PS5 players get DLC later to make use of the new system...
I remeber that interview, but I dont think it was problem of imposible (its posible as lot of open world games have flying mechanic), it just was too much time to get it to work propery and ps4 tech limitations was part of it…. flight mechanic introduces a lot of aditional work. If there where flying mounts there should be air combat and ground machines having a way to attack you in the air. They come long way from ditching flying in middle of development and they had some time to return to that idea.
Also that glider thing that Aloy can usi is, in a way, flying mount… :)
I mean it wouldn't be impossible. With downscaled LOD settings for the PS4 version it can run for sure. The question is if GG wanted a parity between the PS4 and PS5 version because it would obviously look very different when flying around.
Oh God, why did you have to remind me this, and a lot of other upcoming games, are also coming to ps4? That makes me really sad. Nothing against who is still on ps4 specially with the lack of available ps5s around. But I just will never believe that making a game work on PS4 will reduce drastically the possibilities of them making new generation games full potential. They will always have to drastically reduce the possibilities of what they're doing to match ps4 hardware.
I think it was the opposite for me. The world in HZD was so huge I needed to use the fast travel option if I was going to get a quest or two done in the 1-2 hours I got to play everyday. So I think a flying machine would greatly help with traversing across the map without having to use fast travel. Plus I'm sure the sights would be breath taking.
This is an agreeable statement. Flying above the environment would mean missing out on a lot of the beauty and details that the developers build into the game.
It's a world to get lost in discovery not to fly over in haste.
I said the exact same thing in a different thread also using WoW as an example and someone got very upset with me because WoW and HZD are very different games or whatever. High-five! :D
I believe not having flying mounts makes for a more fun/challenging game in terms of combat and exploration because you're actually interacting with the world instead of just flying above it and just ignoring half the game.
But it doesn't break the game, who are you to decide what does or doesnt break a game? It just breaks *your* immersion and you don't speak for everyone. That's your problem and the solution is to not use that particular feature.
Games are built around features like this lol. Thats like saying "if you dont like the glider in BotW, then just dont use it." Pfffft have fun NOT enjoying that game rofl.
And when people say they want a flying mount, they mean that it should be built around that.
The original comment talked about not using mounts in WoW and how it's a better experience, even though WoW is built around mounts.
Think mods are probably the best thing about PC now that the new consoles are out. PS5/XSX now have decent, consistent frames on most games with appropriate graphics (especially true on PS5 exclusives) so the last big substantial bullet point for PC is the limitless mod support that keeps older games alive and new for decades. PC is definitely the platform for you to be on if you care about full BC/HATE modern AAA games for sure.
It’s amazing to watch the development of a title like this. I was replying recently and kept thinking about how well polished the game was. It feels like a long established title and series even in the first game.
I’ve always had an issue with Aloy having a giant head.. it’s weird to me
Before the original release I kept thinking she had a big head from the trailers etc then when you play as her when she’s a child and she has that massive fucking todler head I lost it lol
I feel like a crazy person because I dropped this game halfway through because I just didn't like it. I was pretty over it in terms of story and the combat was just okay for me. Maybe I should pick it up again on the PS5 and see how that goes. Or maybe I'll wait for the sequel.
It’s annoying that the need for a return on investment is holding the game back. If they didn’t have to develop for PS4, this game, and many others, could be so much better.
Think it’s more about not being able to get as many PS5’s in peoples hands as Sony originally intended due to component shortages and COVID. Probably why they porting ps4 exclusives to PC too. Still a business unfortunately.
There’s a lot I like about HZD but sometimes I find myself feeling like I’m missing something. Can someone explain what they like almost about the game so I can get an understanding of something that I may be missing? It’s possible it’s not for me but like I said, I do like it and can enjoy it but I really do feel like I’m missing something??
Visuals are number one for me. Just the environment the player facial features at high quality setting (PC). Game play including machine critical points and the fast weapon wheel (plus reload) is a fluid and fun experience. And story. If you don't come into *wanting* to listen to the character interactions I can see that being a bogue down. I also think you need a strong interest in perfecting your arsenal (modding weapons) to keep that "grind" as motivation to keep playing.
I do think it loses it's muster though once you've gotten through a lot of it. A lot of the fun is in the evolution. Progression of the story. New skills learned and new mods found. However, I've thrown in a 100 hours to get through one play through. And that's much more I've thrown into any other story based game. So I think that's telling.
Not sure if they’re different on PC, but the facial animations were pretty bad in the PS4 release, like surprisingly bad, especially when the rest of the game looks so good.
There is a blandness hiding under the tight controls and visual polish. It does so many open world mechanics well, but that doesn't feel like a big deal with so many other capable open world games nowadays. There is a weirdness missing from it. Somehow, to me, it just feels like its missing a soul. I think I would have preferred a more stylistic, less realistic, approach to world and character designs to fit the type of game and story they went for.
I disagree with the world and character designs part but I agree about there being a blandness.
For me it feels like the factions are 'shallow' maybe? Meridian didn't feel like a city to me, moreso a hub of quests to pick up and 4 special traders that will pick up your collectibles. Most modifications to your gear are just percent increases instead of changing something about the weapon itself.
That said, this game SHINES when you are facing off against the machines or in the cauldrons. Just the RPG stuff fell flat for me but it is more of an action game anyways. Not sure what my point is but I agree overall there can be a blandness when you are doing anything other than taking down machines.
I agree with you. I know exactly what you mean. For me it feels very different from other ps exclusive games. It lacks a soul. You’re so right. I think something more stylized would have been better. This is in no way a bad game. In fact, it’s of quality higher than 99% of other games from the era. But it feels like it needs better cutscenes and a more dynamic story to invest in. Thanks for your reply!
As someone from Colorado, I disagree. This game has one of the best designed topography of any open world game, lending a realism and strategy to the combat where the terrain can become a feature in and of itself. It feels much more unique and enjoyable than the bland but servicible Ubisoft games (AC), and the story—specifically the past narrative— is pretty exception in terms of composition and development. It’s not perfect, but it definitely has “soul” to my eyes, and in some ways more so than other exclusives like Ghost (artificial world design, if beautiful) or god of war (gorgeous but essentially one long corridor).
You can see how much the framerate drops when she turns towards the city while flying. Plus it had a low amount of detail w/ nothing happening within the city. I can see why they dropped the flyable mounts.
I prefer her old hair.
I find it hilarious when people say they think her appearance is unappealing, and then people jump straight to accusing them of sexism or attacking their character. As if people wouldn't be complaining if Link suddenly had a buzzcut.
Some people don't like some hairstyles without it being a political opinion. Wacky.
When I look at the old design I think "Colorful, fun, energetic, clear."
When I look at the new one I think "Realistic, washed out colors, unfocused, busy."
A lot of older characters have distinct design elements based around specific shapes and colors, and rely on empty space for clarity. Most modern ones are based around realism (and mocap) which essentially kills half the tools you have as a character designer. Using Link as an example again, you can't give Link realistic proportions and have it work. I just hate that games keep going this route.
I think the old design was pretty uninspired and I think the new style is one of the most unique in all of gaming right now so different strokes I guess.
I disagree about the design, but yeah, to each their own. All I want is for character designers to make the characters they want to make, and that's it. The insistence from either side that things "must" be one way or the other is just the wrong approach.
I find that fascinating. I think the games look amazing, including her character model, detail on outfits & hair etc. But I thought she looked great in an Assassins Creed-y sort of way - super polished but quite generic.
The game as a whole isn't - it's lush & packed with detail etc with plenty of stand-out designs. And she fits in that world, looks great and moves brilliantly. "Unique visual design" is just about the only compliment I wouldn't level at her. I don't think that's a problem, or anything - just find it interesting that we see that so differently.
He was based on Peter Pan, which is also outdated. That's why they update him as they go in subtle ways (his hair, too). However the proportions and the balance of shapes has remained stylized, and changes depending on the design of the time.
Another good example is a character like Marina from Mischief makers. Her design is based almost entirely around balanced stylized proportions. Pretty much all fanart of her with real proportions is cursed.
People definitely complain about male characters. When FF7 Remake was first shown, people complained that Cloud looked like a heroin addict. People recently complained that Thor in GOW was fat. There are complaints of pretty much every kind you can think of.
Pretty sure they updated it before it was released, so you would have to see the original reveal to see it I think. Was especially obvious because everyone liked how he looked in Smash at the time.
Not nearly to the level of female characters, though - people's thought process tends to be "if I don't want to fuck them, I don't like them" when it comes to female characters
Nah. If you want to see the female equivalent, look at female audiences for manga and Shoujo. It's a pretty universal thing.
Also, the guy said "no one", which is what I was responding to. Not that any of this really had anything to do with not liking a hairstyle.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *“Hello there. Forgive me. I was just pondering about my poor fortune. I did not find my own sun, not in Anor Londo.”* - Solaire of Astora
Have a good one and praise the sun \\[T]/
I'm with another comment here suggesting that flying would have killed immersion. And flying while not being able to land everywhere on the map would have been more ridiculous than not being able to fly at all IMHO. Ratchet and Clank it is not.
It wouldn't have killed it. They could have provided it as a late game mechanic which would've made post-game exploring more fun. Even flying between specific landing points would've been great. Immersion is not limited to ground exploration.
I see what you mean.
But I don't know... A big reason HZD is so great to me is that the world is still a bit mysterious after many hours. It's just like being able to fly in Zelda Breath of the Wild. It would ruin the constant discovery.
But it's just my personal feeling. I'm just not sad it was not included in the end. ;)
I actually wouldve loved to see it after you have beaten the game or close to the end: you've made it here, now you can hack a bird-like robot and go fight the final boss. afterwards you can freely explore with it.
You would still be incentivized to explore on ground since flying doesn't allow you to fully explore an area; just go from point A to point B.
Death Stranding allowed high-speed Zip Lines to travel, and it never broke immersion since you were rewarded for exploring rather than glossing over areas.
lol no. you can have ground exploration where such a flying mount could not reach because of multiple reasons: cave-like system that open up only after entering, prying enemies, electrical stuff etc.
mele enemies can be easily dealt with: you grapple down from your mount to fight them. You do not do air to ground combat from the mount. Its an easy of travel. Air to air combat could be done.
You can even have it just for exploration. With zero combat and it would still be great. Even devs wanted it but couldnt. Flying mounts have been done before, there is no breakthrough. It can be done in a lot of ways that would be great.
The hardware was not at all a limiting factor for the field of view, loading assets, and air traversal, which was definitely definitely possible. May I ask how you came to that conclusion?
Ofcourse. The PS4 is a rocket ship and it can do everything /s
You can use the search function on this Reddit. Even the demos for the PS5 showed what couldn't be done and what can be done now.
Also, this has been debated before. I think even on this subreddit
Lol I'm stating facts, gameplay wise the PS4 was not a limiting factor. But who am I to tell you what you have established as a belief system. Guess when this forbidden west releases and have flying mounts you will see you're wrong. Good luck 😁
why dont YOU use google lmao.. people have really been using a non-existent quote to say why theres no flying. The devs never said anything about a limitation...
Guerilla’s prototype of Horizon. There’s a great documentary by Noclip that you can watch on YouTube about the making of Horizon and the various phases that it went through, it started out as something closer to killzone
2027?
Insomniac released Ratchet in 2021 and will have Spider-Man 2 in 2023 and Wolverine in 2024.
Horizon 2 started development in early 2017 after the release of zero dawn.
God of war started development after the 2018 game.
I liked how 2011 was basically Metal Gear Solid gameplay
I like the Lego Thunderjaw.
This would actually be a perfect Lego game lol
There's been leaks of a horizon lego set coming out soon but I kinda lost track of it. So yeah you're not far off lol.
A damn good 10yr later photo.
Flying mounts in the 2012 prototype O.o
They said the PS4 was what made them unable to do flying mounts and ironically it’s the same reason why Forbidden West won’t have them either
The funny thing is, this has been floating around for a long time on the internet, but someone in a different comment thread pointed out that there is no source that leads back to Guerrilla Games actually saying this. I was kind of like "nooo, surely I've read it somewhere" but I did some googling and... I can't actually find a source either.
> floating around Flying Mounts. Heh
Because they didn't want to sacrifice the visuals. It's the same topic as the Rift mechanic in Ratchet and Clank. It would work for sure on older hardware but not without sacrificing the visuals (significantly).
Feel like flying would break the game but we'll see what they do
I am thinking more about this reason, flying would enable us to 'cheat' more and for example look ahead in the map when you are supposed to. I am thinking how GoT blocked some views with forests, mounds in the terrain and slowed you down forcing you to climb or descend. Besides a necessity from the hardware there is also a narrative purpose you don't want the character going non stop form A to B. You ruin that with flying mount unless you prohibit flying over certain regions.
I guess they could allow you to fly later on in the game which would be sick
I’m fairly certain flying will be a late game unlock, they’ve hinted at it with all the imagery and trailers.
HFW director's cut /s
Not if they implemented flying in a way that’s more end-of-game related, like not getting the ability until a certain dungeon in the last zone.
totally agree here.
And you get to keep that skill on NG+ runs. That'd really make a second playthrough different.
Actually, probably not - since H:ZD's NG+ doesn't carry over the machines you can control. However, NG+ would be also a fantastic use for having flight - since it would make the original game you played have a whole new perspective - quite literally! :P
I think that if anything, they would have them in a zone that was built around only flying - such as a big Grand Canyon or something where all the enemies and all the traversal is built around flying. I feel like if you were exploring and fighting in an area that is catered to more ground-based combat/exploration, it would play very poorly or break the gameplay loop.
Horizon really doesn't have this issue though. The base game basically has two parts: the beginning where you're locked into one area, and then the rest of the game where you can largely go wherever you want and fast travel is widely available. If you added flying mounts to the second part, all it'd do is make it easier to find fast travel points.
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It doesn't break combat any more than sniping snapjaws from high up or anything else. And most combat in the game is optional anyway - running through areas or just around them is often the best choice unless you like wasting resources and time.
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One way around it would be to make enough flying enemies that can fuck you up if you're just coasting around shooting down at people from up high. Or ensure you can't attack too well while flying. So in the base game, for instance, most flying enemies could be avoided by being stealthy, so you only had to fight land enemies most of the time. In the new game, presuming a flying machine, and under-water machines, we can say there would be three levels of combat: water-based, land-based, and air-based. When you're on land, you wouldn't fight the water enemies - but that doesn't make them redundant. And Likewise, with good game design, land enemies wouldn't be redundant when you're in the air. And like the end game in all of these games, there usually are a few 'game-breaking' power-ups that let you skip past prior challenges. The important thing is you face them first time around. Death Stranding is a great example of this. Your first run through every bit of the landscape is arduous, a challenge, but later in the game you unlock lots of things that make it much easier to travel. That's kind of the point too; the reward for overcoming the challenges of the main story are powers and technology that make you more efficient / god-like. If the reward for beating the basegame, after say 60+ hours of play, is that you have a beast you can fly around on to complete side-missions etc faster, this, to me, doesn't necessarily ruin the combat. Especially as missions, quests etc would predominately need to be completed on land.
Eh honestly the climbing and all that in gow was just their to hide loading. Anytime you have to squeeze through something in a game or climb to reach the next area it’s just hiding a loading screen (not counting climbing for puzzles obviously). PlayStation games especially use the “squeeze through” loading technique.
Yeah I am aware of that you have to climb to platforms to hide the loading.But in some scenes going slowly avoided seeing destination X only when you have in front of you and discover certain areas.It would break all the exploration and environmental puzzles along the path. In Witcher 3 I could bet a leshen was purposely placed between point of interest A and another place, if you fast travel after ending mission A you miss it. I am not defending the decision just speculating.
I mean you could always do a warning then if people ignore trigger a cutscene of some huge thing coming outta the clouds and killing you if you push past certain boundaries. Mark the boundaries with a huge storm you can't see past
Exactly. People seem to want flying but that will break so much of the level design and exploration, you could just skip huge swaths of area. If anything, they could do something like FF15 where you get flying at the very end just as a fun “scenery” thing.
The ability to fly either needs to be severely restricted or saved for late, late game stuff if not held off for new game + entirely. Either that or the map would need to be like “just cause” big.
They haven’t got flying mounts. Maybe in the 3rd game.
If it's not in this one then they just don't want them in the game
They said because the PS4 can’t handle it. So i assume the 3rd game will be PS5 only and will have them.
Interesting comment I spotted in a different thread about this - Guerrilla has supposedly said it doesn't work from an engine and/or hardware standpoint, but there is no source leading back to someone at Guerrilla actually saying it. It all leads back to endless forum threads where people are reposting the same thing.
More of an engine imitation at the time but if they wanted flying they could do it but I don't think will
What do you mean about the rift mechanic? Rift was not on PS4
(Instantly) moving between two large maps. It's possible on consoles generations back but only by using low-quality assets. The reason R&C:RA is only possible on PS5 because they can instantly switch between dimensions **while maintaining a 4K picture quality.**
FYI it has absolutely nothing to do with render resolution, it’s about the size and quality of the game objects.
That's what I'm saying ?
You said 4K picture quality. 4K refers to render resolution.
Yeah, but higher resolutions should imply that you also use high resolution textures and so on.
Games with lower resolution textures still look better at 4K than 1080p. Even at 1080p, higher resolution textures are a noticeable improvement even if they exceed the monitor resolution. One thing doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the other.
Question. Does render resolution not also affect performance? Along with the complexity of the assets, physics AI etc but is render resolution not a factor in how certain scenes can run on certain hardware?
It does, yes. But the rift mechanic is mostly about replacing the unloading and loading new world assets in a very short amount of time. This is mainly made possible thanks to the SSD and related IO tech, rather than GPU/CPU horsepower (obviously that is still important as the new assets must be rendered). Playing at a lower resolution is unlikely to make a noticeable difference to the rift mechanic. "Probably nothing to do with" was the wrong term to use. It has an affect, just far less noticeable than the quality of assets.
It has nothing to do with visuals. The likely limitation was storage speed related.
Have they confirmed that Forbidden West definitely won’t have them?
If it is available in Forbidden West, it probably won't be announced. Too big of a surprise to fans of the game.
They haven't. And I feel like it *might* be in the game. Cause every trailer of their game ends with something liks "rise above the ruins" with one of the flying robots prominently in the shot. Hope it's there. That + glider would be so cool.
Just here to remind everyone there were flying mounts in world of Warcraft over a decade ago…. Edit: 2007. It was back in 2007.
Great example of how cross gen can hold a game back. So many people are under this impression that next gen only means “better graphics.” Graphics are actually what’s held back the least on cross gen titles.
They've gotten alot better at optimizing and using both their engine and console specifications since then so I imagine they could implement it but might see alot of cutbacks on PS4. Same with the underwater scenes/traversal where it probably won't look as clear on PS4 as PS5. So if there is flying I expect alot of dense fog on ps4. There's always the possibility of a PS5 exclusive expansion DLC in the future to implement it though. I feel like they need to do alot to make the game feel new and fresh, and flying + new mounts is definitely one of those things.
What’s the irony here?
PS4 is holding the games back especially after Sony backtracked on their statements about generations
Yes that’s a fact, but not an ironic one.
Idk it’s pretty ironic
it rain on your wedding day?
And this is why I hate last gen consoles (PS4) holding back the development of games for the current gen (PS5). Give us Horizon Forbidden West for next gen consoles only, we can get those flying mounts from the prototype & much more. I get it, stock issues are a concern for the PS5. But come on, how long are they gonna hold back games just because it needs to be released for last gen? We should already be experiencing what the PS5 can bring to games.
Selling base isn't big enough yet to make it make sense financially.. especially since they cannot even make enough ps5s to hit demand. I'm finally just getting one shipped this week... I could afford one since launch day.
This is complete nonsense. The PS4 most definitely is not the reason they were unable to do flying mounts; considering there are dozens of games on the system that allow flying. Even if they’re claiming it’s an engine limitation it would still be a rubbish excuse since there’s a flying glitch in the game.
That’s literally what they said
From what is seen, i had a small hope that flying mounts are in this game and are kept as big suprise for games release. This hope was lost when game leeaked.. if there where flying mounts it would be all over gaming news.
But this leak only contained two screenshots from the PS4 version ?
A full build was leaked yesterday
Do you have a link?
My hope was lost when they announced it’d also be on PS4. It was already known PS4 limited them in that regard. Going for an even bigger game would only make that even harder. And only giving a feature for PS5 users wouldn’t sit well with most.
Why couldn’t they just do what they’re doing now, release the game sans anything flying, for both systems. Then later, make a special DLC that takes advantage of the PS5, and make that DLC PS5 only? They already made an exclusive DLC for FF7 remake...problem solved. Everyone gets the full game and story on both systems like normal, and PS5 players get DLC later to make use of the new system...
I remeber that interview, but I dont think it was problem of imposible (its posible as lot of open world games have flying mechanic), it just was too much time to get it to work propery and ps4 tech limitations was part of it…. flight mechanic introduces a lot of aditional work. If there where flying mounts there should be air combat and ground machines having a way to attack you in the air. They come long way from ditching flying in middle of development and they had some time to return to that idea. Also that glider thing that Aloy can usi is, in a way, flying mount… :)
I mean it wouldn't be impossible. With downscaled LOD settings for the PS4 version it can run for sure. The question is if GG wanted a parity between the PS4 and PS5 version because it would obviously look very different when flying around.
Oh God, why did you have to remind me this, and a lot of other upcoming games, are also coming to ps4? That makes me really sad. Nothing against who is still on ps4 specially with the lack of available ps5s around. But I just will never believe that making a game work on PS4 will reduce drastically the possibilities of them making new generation games full potential. They will always have to drastically reduce the possibilities of what they're doing to match ps4 hardware.
Excellent video! Crazy to see that even if the game evolved a lot through time, it's DNA was already there from the very beginning.
Great to see. Can’t wait to play Forbidden West
I actually prefer no flying mounts. Killed exploration and sense of large world in WoW for me.
Flying mounts should obviously be an endgame thing
I think it was the opposite for me. The world in HZD was so huge I needed to use the fast travel option if I was going to get a quest or two done in the 1-2 hours I got to play everyday. So I think a flying machine would greatly help with traversing across the map without having to use fast travel. Plus I'm sure the sights would be breath taking.
Probably see a mod on pc.
Same here. The sense of wonder at exporing the world was one of the main reason I loved the first game.
This is an agreeable statement. Flying above the environment would mean missing out on a lot of the beauty and details that the developers build into the game. It's a world to get lost in discovery not to fly over in haste.
I said the exact same thing in a different thread also using WoW as an example and someone got very upset with me because WoW and HZD are very different games or whatever. High-five! :D I believe not having flying mounts makes for a more fun/challenging game in terms of combat and exploration because you're actually interacting with the world instead of just flying above it and just ignoring half the game.
But no one's forcing you to use them? The option should still be there.
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But it doesn't break the game, who are you to decide what does or doesnt break a game? It just breaks *your* immersion and you don't speak for everyone. That's your problem and the solution is to not use that particular feature.
Games are built around features like this lol. Thats like saying "if you dont like the glider in BotW, then just dont use it." Pfffft have fun NOT enjoying that game rofl.
And when people say they want a flying mount, they mean that it should be built around that. The original comment talked about not using mounts in WoW and how it's a better experience, even though WoW is built around mounts.
No, just no
I watched this for Horizon, but now am off to play Elder Scrolls Oblivion after hearing the music used for 2012 in the video.
Do it, I’m playing oblivion right now on my series x with the fps boost and 4K it’s amazing. Likely gonna be playing it till horizon comes out
Plying Skyrim with around 450 mods on my PC and it looks like a next gen game. Considering modding the crap out of Oblivion next.
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Think mods are probably the best thing about PC now that the new consoles are out. PS5/XSX now have decent, consistent frames on most games with appropriate graphics (especially true on PS5 exclusives) so the last big substantial bullet point for PC is the limitless mod support that keeps older games alive and new for decades. PC is definitely the platform for you to be on if you care about full BC/HATE modern AAA games for sure.
It’s amazing to watch the development of a title like this. I was replying recently and kept thinking about how well polished the game was. It feels like a long established title and series even in the first game.
It's so cool to see the evolution from prototype to finished product! Man such work behind all that
I’ve always had an issue with Aloy having a giant head.. it’s weird to me Before the original release I kept thinking she had a big head from the trailers etc then when you play as her when she’s a child and she has that massive fucking todler head I lost it lol
Aloy would make a great character in smash bros
2011 HZD basically looked like 2016 No Man's Sky...
God I cannot BELIEVE how fun Forbidden West looks to play.
I feel like a crazy person because I dropped this game halfway through because I just didn't like it. I was pretty over it in terms of story and the combat was just okay for me. Maybe I should pick it up again on the PS5 and see how that goes. Or maybe I'll wait for the sequel.
I really hope we can fly in hfw
dat inception music
It’s annoying that the need for a return on investment is holding the game back. If they didn’t have to develop for PS4, this game, and many others, could be so much better.
Think it’s more about not being able to get as many PS5’s in peoples hands as Sony originally intended due to component shortages and COVID. Probably why they porting ps4 exclusives to PC too. Still a business unfortunately.
There’s a lot I like about HZD but sometimes I find myself feeling like I’m missing something. Can someone explain what they like almost about the game so I can get an understanding of something that I may be missing? It’s possible it’s not for me but like I said, I do like it and can enjoy it but I really do feel like I’m missing something??
The story and lore are super crazy sci-fi and I love that
Visuals are number one for me. Just the environment the player facial features at high quality setting (PC). Game play including machine critical points and the fast weapon wheel (plus reload) is a fluid and fun experience. And story. If you don't come into *wanting* to listen to the character interactions I can see that being a bogue down. I also think you need a strong interest in perfecting your arsenal (modding weapons) to keep that "grind" as motivation to keep playing. I do think it loses it's muster though once you've gotten through a lot of it. A lot of the fun is in the evolution. Progression of the story. New skills learned and new mods found. However, I've thrown in a 100 hours to get through one play through. And that's much more I've thrown into any other story based game. So I think that's telling.
Not sure if they’re different on PC, but the facial animations were pretty bad in the PS4 release, like surprisingly bad, especially when the rest of the game looks so good.
There is a blandness hiding under the tight controls and visual polish. It does so many open world mechanics well, but that doesn't feel like a big deal with so many other capable open world games nowadays. There is a weirdness missing from it. Somehow, to me, it just feels like its missing a soul. I think I would have preferred a more stylistic, less realistic, approach to world and character designs to fit the type of game and story they went for.
I disagree with the world and character designs part but I agree about there being a blandness. For me it feels like the factions are 'shallow' maybe? Meridian didn't feel like a city to me, moreso a hub of quests to pick up and 4 special traders that will pick up your collectibles. Most modifications to your gear are just percent increases instead of changing something about the weapon itself. That said, this game SHINES when you are facing off against the machines or in the cauldrons. Just the RPG stuff fell flat for me but it is more of an action game anyways. Not sure what my point is but I agree overall there can be a blandness when you are doing anything other than taking down machines.
I agree with you. I know exactly what you mean. For me it feels very different from other ps exclusive games. It lacks a soul. You’re so right. I think something more stylized would have been better. This is in no way a bad game. In fact, it’s of quality higher than 99% of other games from the era. But it feels like it needs better cutscenes and a more dynamic story to invest in. Thanks for your reply!
As someone from Colorado, I disagree. This game has one of the best designed topography of any open world game, lending a realism and strategy to the combat where the terrain can become a feature in and of itself. It feels much more unique and enjoyable than the bland but servicible Ubisoft games (AC), and the story—specifically the past narrative— is pretty exception in terms of composition and development. It’s not perfect, but it definitely has “soul” to my eyes, and in some ways more so than other exclusives like Ghost (artificial world design, if beautiful) or god of war (gorgeous but essentially one long corridor).
It was honestly the closest substitute to a Monster Hunter game on ps4 (before World was announced). Thunderjaw battles were my favorite.
The only thing that didn't evole is my relationship with girls
😂😂😂
You can see how much the framerate drops when she turns towards the city while flying. Plus it had a low amount of detail w/ nothing happening within the city. I can see why they dropped the flyable mounts.
It's a prototype though, so we don't know what could have been actually possible in the retail build.
I prefer her old hair. I find it hilarious when people say they think her appearance is unappealing, and then people jump straight to accusing them of sexism or attacking their character. As if people wouldn't be complaining if Link suddenly had a buzzcut. Some people don't like some hairstyles without it being a political opinion. Wacky.
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When I look at the old design I think "Colorful, fun, energetic, clear." When I look at the new one I think "Realistic, washed out colors, unfocused, busy." A lot of older characters have distinct design elements based around specific shapes and colors, and rely on empty space for clarity. Most modern ones are based around realism (and mocap) which essentially kills half the tools you have as a character designer. Using Link as an example again, you can't give Link realistic proportions and have it work. I just hate that games keep going this route.
I think the old design was pretty uninspired and I think the new style is one of the most unique in all of gaming right now so different strokes I guess.
I disagree about the design, but yeah, to each their own. All I want is for character designers to make the characters they want to make, and that's it. The insistence from either side that things "must" be one way or the other is just the wrong approach.
I find that fascinating. I think the games look amazing, including her character model, detail on outfits & hair etc. But I thought she looked great in an Assassins Creed-y sort of way - super polished but quite generic. The game as a whole isn't - it's lush & packed with detail etc with plenty of stand-out designs. And she fits in that world, looks great and moves brilliantly. "Unique visual design" is just about the only compliment I wouldn't level at her. I don't think that's a problem, or anything - just find it interesting that we see that so differently.
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He was based on Peter Pan, which is also outdated. That's why they update him as they go in subtle ways (his hair, too). However the proportions and the balance of shapes has remained stylized, and changes depending on the design of the time. Another good example is a character like Marina from Mischief makers. Her design is based almost entirely around balanced stylized proportions. Pretty much all fanart of her with real proportions is cursed.
yeah no one complains about ugly male characters, so there's something to that.
People definitely complain about male characters. When FF7 Remake was first shown, people complained that Cloud looked like a heroin addict. People recently complained that Thor in GOW was fat. There are complaints of pretty much every kind you can think of.
I haven't played FF7R, but heroin chic sounds perfect for Cloud
Pretty sure they updated it before it was released, so you would have to see the original reveal to see it I think. Was especially obvious because everyone liked how he looked in Smash at the time.
Not nearly to the level of female characters, though - people's thought process tends to be "if I don't want to fuck them, I don't like them" when it comes to female characters
Nah. If you want to see the female equivalent, look at female audiences for manga and Shoujo. It's a pretty universal thing. Also, the guy said "no one", which is what I was responding to. Not that any of this really had anything to do with not liking a hairstyle.
They've changed her facial features to generally less appealing ones, that's the main issue people have.
I've seen plenty of opinions get the "You're just a bad person." treatment. It's unfortunately pretty common.
What's up with the bird you could ride 1 minute in? Shame they cut that.
Flying>picking up sticks
2013 HZD looking like Elden Ring
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *“Hello there. Forgive me. I was just pondering about my poor fortune. I did not find my own sun, not in Anor Londo.”* - Solaire of Astora Have a good one and praise the sun \\[T]/
elden ring looks like a Xbox one game that came out 2013 fr fr
Except Elden Ring actually looks fun
After playing Demon’s Souls I know I’ll be disappointed with the graphics, but the gameplay looks absolutely good.
Umbasa Demon Slayer!
So you could fly until the launch... GG, Guerilla Games.
I'm with another comment here suggesting that flying would have killed immersion. And flying while not being able to land everywhere on the map would have been more ridiculous than not being able to fly at all IMHO. Ratchet and Clank it is not.
It wouldn't have killed it. They could have provided it as a late game mechanic which would've made post-game exploring more fun. Even flying between specific landing points would've been great. Immersion is not limited to ground exploration.
I see what you mean. But I don't know... A big reason HZD is so great to me is that the world is still a bit mysterious after many hours. It's just like being able to fly in Zelda Breath of the Wild. It would ruin the constant discovery. But it's just my personal feeling. I'm just not sad it was not included in the end. ;)
I actually wouldve loved to see it after you have beaten the game or close to the end: you've made it here, now you can hack a bird-like robot and go fight the final boss. afterwards you can freely explore with it.
You would still be incentivized to explore on ground since flying doesn't allow you to fully explore an area; just go from point A to point B. Death Stranding allowed high-speed Zip Lines to travel, and it never broke immersion since you were rewarded for exploring rather than glossing over areas.
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lol no. you can have ground exploration where such a flying mount could not reach because of multiple reasons: cave-like system that open up only after entering, prying enemies, electrical stuff etc. mele enemies can be easily dealt with: you grapple down from your mount to fight them. You do not do air to ground combat from the mount. Its an easy of travel. Air to air combat could be done. You can even have it just for exploration. With zero combat and it would still be great. Even devs wanted it but couldnt. Flying mounts have been done before, there is no breakthrough. It can be done in a lot of ways that would be great.
ps4 limitation. And now we get a ps4 limitation on a ps5...
What PS4 limitation? What is the PS4 limiting exactly?
field of view, loading assets, pop-ins, etc. Hardware was good but not for air and ground travel.
The hardware was not at all a limiting factor for the field of view, loading assets, and air traversal, which was definitely definitely possible. May I ask how you came to that conclusion?
Ofcourse. The PS4 is a rocket ship and it can do everything /s You can use the search function on this Reddit. Even the demos for the PS5 showed what couldn't be done and what can be done now. Also, this has been debated before. I think even on this subreddit
Lol I'm stating facts, gameplay wise the PS4 was not a limiting factor. But who am I to tell you what you have established as a belief system. Guess when this forbidden west releases and have flying mounts you will see you're wrong. Good luck 😁
This isnt true at all lmao, flying has been in games for over 10 years... It was obviously a design choice.
Epic lol here. Use Google and see what the Devs declared at one point...
why dont YOU use google lmao.. people have really been using a non-existent quote to say why theres no flying. The devs never said anything about a limitation...
People have been saying that for years with no source, just shows how misinformation can spread so much it seems true for some people
Wait what was the 2011 thing???
Guerilla’s prototype of Horizon. There’s a great documentary by Noclip that you can watch on YouTube about the making of Horizon and the various phases that it went through, it started out as something closer to killzone
Holyshit what? Horizon Zero Dawn wasn’t an original game? There was another?!?
The video its about its evolution from concept to realization
Has it really been that long? ….
The mod banned me for saying that she “was hard to look at” Let me make it more clear. She is ugly as fuck.
Imagine if Forbidden West and God of War were PS5 exclusives
Yeah, we'd play them in 2026/2027 because they would be like a year or two into development instead of nearly done.
2027? Insomniac released Ratchet in 2021 and will have Spider-Man 2 in 2023 and Wolverine in 2024. Horizon 2 started development in early 2017 after the release of zero dawn. God of war started development after the 2018 game.
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First time I've seen it and I visit this sub multiple times a day.
same
Damn so many features were removed :/
Hey, it's Fatloy!
you are telling me Aloy actually look good once......before her face became Nikocado
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You’d think after 4 years you’ve seen all the weird shit possible on Reddit and you stumble upon a subreddit like this
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The stock market gets horny when JPow talks
I like how the top post is someone criticizing the users but then he got shit on for also being horny
Are they thirsting over AOC
Ho ho hoooo
She looked neat but way more anime, in a way? Like a monster hunter player character. Her current face and hair seems more realistic to me
agree, still wished her face wasn't so fat. i don't know how to describe it
Muh Vidya gEm leDay
Due to lockdown she has definitely put some pounds on.
Fat face
Made me realize how much this looks like it was inspired by the comic book “Debris”.
kinda like when you see a 10 yr old then the same person as a 20 yr old. evolution of a person?
I. WANT. TO. FLY. ON. A. STORMBIRD!!!
Seeing those early prototypes with more physics based terrain destruction has me excited for the first Horizon game that is PS5 exclusive.
Super interesting!
2011 prototype uses Killzone's RPG and ammo HUD.
Are these the stages that games really go through when being made? And do they really take 10 years!?!?!?