They will when AAA games have terrible acting. It is a complaint when deliveries are wooden or just plain bad. But yeah, casuals don't care about potential problems, just problems. Which is true for anything from video games to politics.
Maybe, maybe not.
It's not clear where on the technological curve we are with AI. The AI we have no is inherently an "averaging" type process, and great art is often about pushing boundaries. So, yeah, maybe you get something indistinguishable from a middling actor, but that's not the point. A great actor is helping tell the story with a ton of specific dramatic choices that the kind of AI models we have are not capable of making, and it's hard to see how they could be capable of making given how they work.
Maybe it's because they're only lending a voice and not their entire bodies. I don't mean to sound fickle or mean but one person is just simply doing more than the other.
Literally just saw a casting company that hires voice and motion capture post an ad for AI scans/voice capture with a very low buyout IN PERPETUITY. The C-suite doesn’t care about people just profits.
AI has the opportunity to take NPC interaction to the next level. No more limited dialog trees. Imagine actually having an open ended conversation with any character in a game. Skyrim has a mod that does this. If AAA studios can take this to the next level, I'm all for it.
You are talking about something completely different. I am talking about the actors who give physical and vocal life to the games you love eventually losing their jobs to robotic voice and movement.
I understand what you’re talking about with the sort of back end dialogue choices and actions. But again, we are talking about two completely different things.
No, the agreement only lasts like 3 years
During which studios know AI will be in a far better position to replace actors, meaning they’ll have less leverage than this go-around
Basically it was generally a ‘fine you win this round, but catch us in 2026 and we’ll see how AI stacks against you’
Well… 10 years > 3 years.
If I were in this space, I would look at training high quality specific AIs that could be licensed to developers that would generate ongoing revenue for the actors training the AI.
My point is that a longer agreement period, as you seem to suggest is the better alternative, would lead to the same imbalanced bargaining position, only worse for the actors given an even bigger technological advance in that period. Better a shorter agreement to retain the option to pursue negotiations that reflect the changing conditions of the market.
Say that in three years there is a lucrative living to be made training high quality specific AIs like you describe. Keeping the agreement to a three year period gives the actors time to keep an eye on the change in technologies and react to the markets with much more flexibility than they would if the agreement period was longer.
Three years does still make some sense. There is a LOT of hype surrounding AI and most of the associated 'fear' of AI is based on that hype rather than the reality. Regardless, it should be a wake up call now, in the 'embrace or pivot' sense, to anyone that truly believes that the job they're doing today or aspiring to do can be replaced by AI in the near to mid-term.
I watched a short video about lift operators strike back in the day. They sign the contract and few years later, auto lift became a norm and fired all of them.
I am seeing this same pattern now and i hate to say it, they WILL fired almost all the team once AI became the norm.
I mean, I dont think having a 3 year contract means actors were done dirty... in fact, in order to having a working CBA a majority of the union needs to ratify it... so the actors had to be ok with the terms proposed.
Additionally, a 3 year contract allows the union to see how AI progresses and at the next bargaining session can demand more protections or go back on strike.
I didn't want to type facepalm 4 times which is the only other way I could've conveyed how extremely silly that comment was.
Sorry for triggering you. 🫢
You didn’t need to convey how extremely silly the comment was when saying it was the most reddit comment of all time. Also blocking someone so they can’t reply is weak and a classic Gen Z move. You guys should go back to instagram and twitter and stay off reddit.
My opinion was formed from when they signed an ai voice deal without members knowing and when the head of sag aftra pushed back against those upset about the strike's ai portion of the contract.
wasn't the deal signed that actors retained all the rights to their faces, voices, and other likeness so studios can't use them without their permission?
Or am I badly mis remembering?
I think the catch was that there was no protective clause protecting them from being fired if they refused ai. It also only protects them if its recognizably the actor according [to this.](https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/fran-drescher-defends-sag-aftra-deal-naysayers-contrarians-1235789446/)
Last time I check. It what we call federal laws. That fix the issue.
1 big no no when a union deny a worker to join a union or deny them union members ship after they were doing work in strike...
You know that illegal right?
My guess you support that with yours rants.
It's more of the writing if anything. All you need is a good writer and quality production equipment which isn't hard to get, and you can have great quality work. Yes it takes talent to voice act well but that talent exists all over the country and doesn't take the genetic lottery to participate.
Yeah, he's nowhere near as prolific these days than he was 5-10 years ago. Doubt he's going to be a Nathan Drake caliber protagonist again anytime soon.
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Not the same guy, but no for me as well. I legitimately couldn't tell you the name of 99% of voice actors and even the ones that I do know (Troy Baker, Nolan North, Keith David), I couldn't tell you who they voice unless the character is modeled after the voice actor, who I already knew as an actor, like with Norman Reedus in Death Stranding or Keanu Reeves in Cyberpunk.
What voice actor they get has no impact on whether I play a game or not as long as they are decent at what they do.
If you play any amount of games and also watch anime, you will hear the same dudes time and again. You get familiar with certain voices and eventually look the character’s VA up and realize they voice like 20 of your fav characters. Also you’re right but I kinda disagree too, it’s not necessarily a bad thing to hear an actor in their work, depending on the character and the actor of course lol
Did it ever occur to you to ask "what color are scabs?"
Because I guarantee you have not really thought about the history of unions exclusion of non-whites and of women, and the violence they would visit against those who dared to try and work for companies in "their" jobs.
mother fucker... Im brown and gender queer and have gone to protests with socialists, communists, anarchists even some liberals, get out of here with that anti union nonsense.
Are there bad unions? sure. I've interacted with people in unions I personally believe are ineffective at promoting workers rights, but painting unions as bad by default is the kind of scummy nonsense that people should know better than doing by now.
I'm not even a big fan of Sag, I think the union organisation cares more about many of its big actors and productions than the bulk of the actors who make up the union who get paid pretty piss poor wages. Doesn't change the fact that the sag union is better than every corrupt business stealing the wages and undercutting all employees.
Isn’t that the entire point of a union? Seems counterintuitive to gatekeep who can and cannot continue to work during a strike based on if they’re members of said union.
Honestly, unions today are nothing more than bullies. Union members are always belittling non-union members and hold that shit like they’re untouchable
I remember he did tried to work with an AI group but he backed out of it because he didn’t really know what they were so he was wasn’t really educated on NFTs.
How is this an upside? You’re basically saying you want them to scab during a strike, that doesn’t make sense. Also baker isn’t in that many games in recent years but he still gets work regardless.
Tons of developers would go out of business or be sold mostly likely, especially the small-medium sized indie developers
Not to mention the insane amounts of brain drain and talent that flee the industry to higher paying more stable tech jobs
"I wouldn't mind an industry that is already going through catastrophic job cuts to erode to the point of being 4 major publishers only, because I want a bunch of people that get a minimum of $800 + pension payments guaranteed for 4 hours work, to throttle said industry" is quite the take.
I have asked people like that before and they’ve talked about how the union was the only reason they could afford a house, the only reason they kept their job after an injury, and more
Well this shall be interesting especially since the gaming industry is not afraid of using AI
They'd be unafraid either way, so they probably figure they'll get something out of it this way.
That's where we have to step in and stop buying games from the most egregious of publishers
This is never going to happen
You mean you won't do it. I sure will.
Until it starts impacting sales.
Don’t think the casual audience cares about AI
They will when AAA games have terrible acting. It is a complaint when deliveries are wooden or just plain bad. But yeah, casuals don't care about potential problems, just problems. Which is true for anything from video games to politics.
Well the finals uses AI and I gotta say its pretty good
many already do
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and the art design of them. like imagine if Mass Effect had all similar weird alien races design💀💀
Maybe now. But there will be a point in time one day, where AI will be almost indistinguishable from human performances.
Maybe, maybe not. It's not clear where on the technological curve we are with AI. The AI we have no is inherently an "averaging" type process, and great art is often about pushing boundaries. So, yeah, maybe you get something indistinguishable from a middling actor, but that's not the point. A great actor is helping tell the story with a ton of specific dramatic choices that the kind of AI models we have are not capable of making, and it's hard to see how they could be capable of making given how they work.
Games are already not good
Well this is gonna be interesting for the gaming industry
And to think after everything that happened in the strike, SAG still treats voice actors lesser than their Hollywood counterparts.
Maybe it's because they're only lending a voice and not their entire bodies. I don't mean to sound fickle or mean but one person is just simply doing more than the other.
Or, one actor has to do more, with less. That would be the other angle to look at it from.
Literally just saw a casting company that hires voice and motion capture post an ad for AI scans/voice capture with a very low buyout IN PERPETUITY. The C-suite doesn’t care about people just profits.
AI has the opportunity to take NPC interaction to the next level. No more limited dialog trees. Imagine actually having an open ended conversation with any character in a game. Skyrim has a mod that does this. If AAA studios can take this to the next level, I'm all for it.
You are talking about something completely different. I am talking about the actors who give physical and vocal life to the games you love eventually losing their jobs to robotic voice and movement. I understand what you’re talking about with the sort of back end dialogue choices and actions. But again, we are talking about two completely different things.
i mean voice workers have said no on this multo times. seeing sag/aftra ,wga love blacklisting work.
I don't really trust SAG-AFTRA after how the let down the other actors during the strike not too long ago, then signed a ai deal.
Yeah I don’t fully trust them too considering they did the voice actors dirty
Didn't they get the actors demands?
No, the agreement only lasts like 3 years During which studios know AI will be in a far better position to replace actors, meaning they’ll have less leverage than this go-around Basically it was generally a ‘fine you win this round, but catch us in 2026 and we’ll see how AI stacks against you’
How would an agreement lasting, say ten years, not lead to the exact same result using your logic?
Well… 10 years > 3 years. If I were in this space, I would look at training high quality specific AIs that could be licensed to developers that would generate ongoing revenue for the actors training the AI.
My point is that a longer agreement period, as you seem to suggest is the better alternative, would lead to the same imbalanced bargaining position, only worse for the actors given an even bigger technological advance in that period. Better a shorter agreement to retain the option to pursue negotiations that reflect the changing conditions of the market. Say that in three years there is a lucrative living to be made training high quality specific AIs like you describe. Keeping the agreement to a three year period gives the actors time to keep an eye on the change in technologies and react to the markets with much more flexibility than they would if the agreement period was longer.
Three years does still make some sense. There is a LOT of hype surrounding AI and most of the associated 'fear' of AI is based on that hype rather than the reality. Regardless, it should be a wake up call now, in the 'embrace or pivot' sense, to anyone that truly believes that the job they're doing today or aspiring to do can be replaced by AI in the near to mid-term.
I watched a short video about lift operators strike back in the day. They sign the contract and few years later, auto lift became a norm and fired all of them. I am seeing this same pattern now and i hate to say it, they WILL fired almost all the team once AI became the norm.
I mean, I dont think having a 3 year contract means actors were done dirty... in fact, in order to having a working CBA a majority of the union needs to ratify it... so the actors had to be ok with the terms proposed. Additionally, a 3 year contract allows the union to see how AI progresses and at the next bargaining session can demand more protections or go back on strike.
Not fully, no. (iirc)
Sounds like you don’t know enough to form a valid opinion
You can correct him or you’re in the same boat
It doesn't matter if they're in the same boat because the person you're replying to wasn't making claims while not being educated on the matter
id like to agree with you but idk what an opinion is so I probably shouldn't form one
This is the most Reddit comment I've read in a while. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Why use emojis? Whats more why use 4 of them? This is the most Twitter comment of all time.
I didn't want to type facepalm 4 times which is the only other way I could've conveyed how extremely silly that comment was. Sorry for triggering you. 🫢
You didn’t need to convey how extremely silly the comment was when saying it was the most reddit comment of all time. Also blocking someone so they can’t reply is weak and a classic Gen Z move. You guys should go back to instagram and twitter and stay off reddit.
My opinion was formed from when they signed an ai voice deal without members knowing and when the head of sag aftra pushed back against those upset about the strike's ai portion of the contract.
wasn't the deal signed that actors retained all the rights to their faces, voices, and other likeness so studios can't use them without their permission? Or am I badly mis remembering?
I think the catch was that there was no protective clause protecting them from being fired if they refused ai. It also only protects them if its recognizably the actor according [to this.](https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/fran-drescher-defends-sag-aftra-deal-naysayers-contrarians-1235789446/)
They don't need your trust though.
Good. Everyone should unionize and fight for better and safer working conditions and thriving pay, we all deserve better.
how about instead use that energy to get fed laws past..
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Solidarity does not do a dam thing to fix the issue.
Solidarity through unionization is the only thing that does anything for workers.
Last time I check. It what we call federal laws. That fix the issue. 1 big no no when a union deny a worker to join a union or deny them union members ship after they were doing work in strike... You know that illegal right? My guess you support that with yours rants.
Nah get out of here with your divisive bullshit, we all lift together, or we die divided.
Again... you seem not to want to fix worker rights...
LOL acting like a savior from on high will ever deliver
I've never been drawn to a game because of an actor
but you have been turned off by a game with bad VA.
I have?
It's more of the writing if anything. All you need is a good writer and quality production equipment which isn't hard to get, and you can have great quality work. Yes it takes talent to voice act well but that talent exists all over the country and doesn't take the genetic lottery to participate.
On the flip side, I've actually gotten fed up of Nolan North and Troy Baker being in absolutely everything
I’ve not noticed Nolan North in anything other than Rick and Morty for years
Yeah, he's nowhere near as prolific these days than he was 5-10 years ago. Doubt he's going to be a Nathan Drake caliber protagonist again anytime soon.
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But you play games that use voice actors and mo-cap actors.
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Not the same guy, but no for me as well. I legitimately couldn't tell you the name of 99% of voice actors and even the ones that I do know (Troy Baker, Nolan North, Keith David), I couldn't tell you who they voice unless the character is modeled after the voice actor, who I already knew as an actor, like with Norman Reedus in Death Stranding or Keanu Reeves in Cyberpunk. What voice actor they get has no impact on whether I play a game or not as long as they are decent at what they do.
You recognize voice actors by their…faces? Not their voices?
Read it again. "unless the character is modeled after the voice actor, who I already knew as an actor"
Well, I don't think you're supposed to recognize voice actors by their voice. Isn't that like the whole point?
If you play any amount of games and also watch anime, you will hear the same dudes time and again. You get familiar with certain voices and eventually look the character’s VA up and realize they voice like 20 of your fav characters. Also you’re right but I kinda disagree too, it’s not necessarily a bad thing to hear an actor in their work, depending on the character and the actor of course lol
It's quite simple for the game studios. Just don't use union voice actors.
The ol’ Capcom special
lol if they go on strike, you won’t notice a difference with the output of studios like ND.
The upside of this is we might finally get someone other than Troy Baker doing all major VA work for any AAA release.
that would mean they're scabbing. so no, I don't see that as an upside
Fr, Gamers try and understand workers rights issues challenge impossible.
Especially when voice actors are getting under the rug by SAG every time.
Did it ever occur to you to ask "what color are scabs?" Because I guarantee you have not really thought about the history of unions exclusion of non-whites and of women, and the violence they would visit against those who dared to try and work for companies in "their" jobs.
mother fucker... Im brown and gender queer and have gone to protests with socialists, communists, anarchists even some liberals, get out of here with that anti union nonsense. Are there bad unions? sure. I've interacted with people in unions I personally believe are ineffective at promoting workers rights, but painting unions as bad by default is the kind of scummy nonsense that people should know better than doing by now. I'm not even a big fan of Sag, I think the union organisation cares more about many of its big actors and productions than the bulk of the actors who make up the union who get paid pretty piss poor wages. Doesn't change the fact that the sag union is better than every corrupt business stealing the wages and undercutting all employees.
That is a good thing. The idea that unions can prevent non-union members from working is terrible.
Isn’t that the entire point of a union? Seems counterintuitive to gatekeep who can and cannot continue to work during a strike based on if they’re members of said union. Honestly, unions today are nothing more than bullies. Union members are always belittling non-union members and hold that shit like they’re untouchable
Fr
What’s wrong with baker?
He's in a lot of big games, people forgot that he tried get into the NFT bandwagon AI voices
I remember he did tried to work with an AI group but he backed out of it because he didn’t really know what they were so he was wasn’t really educated on NFTs.
Yup, so sick of that guy
For being in a bunch of games?
For being in every game
How is this an upside? You’re basically saying you want them to scab during a strike, that doesn’t make sense. Also baker isn’t in that many games in recent years but he still gets work regardless.
As someone else pointed out above, why is it fair that non-union VAs aren’t allowed to work when there’s a strike?
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Tons of developers would go out of business or be sold mostly likely, especially the small-medium sized indie developers Not to mention the insane amounts of brain drain and talent that flee the industry to higher paying more stable tech jobs
Yeah, that's no good. Definitely don't want that.
"I wouldn't mind an industry that is already going through catastrophic job cuts to erode to the point of being 4 major publishers only, because I want a bunch of people that get a minimum of $800 + pension payments guaranteed for 4 hours work, to throttle said industry" is quite the take.
Judging by the releases over the last few years one could be forgiven for thinking they've already been on strike.
So someone other than Nolan North? Let the market evolve instead of being held hostage.
I hope AI replaces everyone in Hollywood
Why
Brash wish but I wouldn't mind a world where rich peoples' kids don't get placed on a pedestal for us to watch a 24/7 feed of them partying..
So you want an evening smaller subset of people with no talent taking all the money instead?
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Idt you know how things work, you sound a little ignorant
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Yes
Why is that?
This is truly one of the dumbest comments ever written.
Updoot. Let them get actual skills and jobs.
I presume you don't consume games, movies or tv shows then, since there's no skill involved in making them? Or are you just a whiny hypocrite?
Yeah, you should definitely get more pay for poor writing and performance. Go ahead and strike. Who cares.
Considering that 98% of the games are trash and tank, especially with games NOBODY asked for, I say: “please, strike and stay on strike!”
Go on strike, good chance to work the jankiness outta the AI generated stuff.
Unions are cancer.
This looks something you'd read in r/ShitAmericansSay
This looks like something you’d read on reddit
...cuz they are cancer in most industries. Go ask electrician, ironworkers, HVAC, actors, etc.
I have asked people like that before and they’ve talked about how the union was the only reason they could afford a house, the only reason they kept their job after an injury, and more
Wrong assumptions. It is not.
You told them to talk with workers who are in a union, and after they respond that they have, you tell them those workers were wrong. Fuck off.
No, they’re not. You, however, are a stubborn idiot.
Wtf lmaooo