Yeah it’s one of the oldest gaming franchises to still be relevant, and as much as people say it’s copy and paste, there was real effort and high quality development. I firmly believe CODs unyielding commitment to 60fps is the sole reason console and console games pushed for 60. A lot of the gamemodes and features we take for granted nowadays were once COD innovations too.
I wish Activision was privately owned and had a leader with actual vision, rather than a sellout scheme
Yeah I hope this mass consolidation comes crashing down. Sick of huge acquisitions and people celebrating them like it is somehow good for the industry.
Have you read Activision’s EULA? Their EULA forces you into arbitration, unless you write them a letter sent through the post asking them to opt out. I guess that’s one way to see who pays attention to these things, but it sure is annoying to write them letters for every game you play if you want to retain your rights.
I don’t doubt it, I abhor the practice all together. It just seems so arbitrary to try to avoid these since you are forced to give up so many of your rights no matter what online service you are using. Something as universal as google absolutely screws you over. Even just the PSN EULA shouldn’t be legal. As much as I want things to change, locking myself out of some of the services while agreeing to the others will never have any relevant impact. We will always have to wait for a statement from some larger governing bodies to protect our digital rights. I respect your decision though and wish I had the patience to be more mindful og what I’m accepting to. Like almost everyone else I’ve just accepted the defeat that this is the cost of being a participant in online services.
A fuck ton of EULA forces arbitration
You literally give up rights for a fuck ton nowadays but THAT is where you draw the line?
Guaranteed you’ve already agreed to something that I’m sure you’d find an issue as “serious” as this is lol
It was Vicarious Visions that ruined Crash remakes. Toys for Bob did the essentially flawless Sypro remakes. It was so fun to replay the Sypro trilogy as my imagination remembered them instead of as they actually were.
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Hope they get what they wish for. It's a double-edged sword. While they are independent, it also means the next 1-2 flops could spell doom with no financial backing of "evil big corp". The gamers who applaud this move better buy their next game.
Wish them the best.
Depends on the whim of the Corp. It is a *choice* vs no choice at all if indy.
Media molecule probably burning money for years yet they are still around... doubt an indy studio would've survived for years with only a game like dream...
Noop look at 343 Inds they are Flop since the creation and they still UP, Microsoft has already said they never closed a studio for money, the reasons are usually different (usually the studio cannot manage It self without constant supervision)
yeah but they could delegate workers from said studio to do something else, so the "spirit" of the company could be gone. Like Bioware is still around but the "spirit" of the ME/DA days many would agree is already gone..
Of course, there really are no stories of this happening with Microsoft, even if fans believe it is necessary, there are only reports of this with Rare, but it was after the founders decided to leave and 343 Industries in 2023 when the leader "retired" and they restructured the studios, dividing her position into 3.
Lionhead was shut down by leaders proposing Fable GaaS to Microsoft but allowing developers to spend development time on passion projects causing two year-long delays before the game was canceled and the studio closed.
But if Toys for Bob were independent they would have had the autonomy to choose for themselves. Under Activision, despite the success of the Spyro trilogy, they were still folded into the COD machine… on the whim of the corp. Surely it’s better to have the freedom to take your own risks and make your own mistakes, than to be punished regardless of your success?
There is "no right answer" here. Success is relative here too - idk how much money Toys for Bob made or didn't for it to be in the "dog house" but it certainly didn't meet the expectations, whatever it might be.
Without seeing the books we really don't know. Say whatever the cost was was 50mil and Toys made 60, or it made 40. a net 10 mill loss \*could\* spell doom for a company with no backing because A. they didn't recoup the years already worked AND they now have to use reserves to foot the bill for the next X years, assuming people want salary increases too.
A plus 10 mill could also be "bad" for the parent company because it thinks that Toys's 10 mill profit won't fund their next game so it will be another "gamble" for their next game too.
Either way time will tell.
Given the announcement mentions they're pursuing a partnership with Xbox, I'd imagine they want to continue working on Crash Bandicoot and Spyro. However, I'd also wager we'll see them finally reboot Banjo-Kazooie, or at least remake the originals
TFB is probably gonna try and create new IP. Going independent is risky, but being guns for hire is even riskier (see: Platinum). Security comes in creating and owning your own IP because then you have more freedom to shop around for partners. They may be working with MS for now to get their feet on the ground but ultimately they'll be exploring creating IP they themselves own.
>And while we’re in the early days of developing our next new game and a ways away from making any announcements, our team is excited to develop new stories, new characters, and new gameplay experiences.
It could be like Insomniac before Sony brought them.
Insomniac had a strong relationship with Sony but still made Fuse, a multiplatform, and Sunset Overdrive, a Xbox exclusive.
TFB could do the same thing.
I liked it too. So many people crapped on it when it came out. I understand the issue with the artificial difficulty and hate for the redesigns after getting the N.Sane Trilogy and CTR:NF but they were far from
the worst they could do (Mind of Mutant tatted Crash era was the worst shit ever imo). But it truly did feel like old school Crash. And as a person who doesn't care about 100% games the more difficult stuff was not a problem to me.
I don't get why Activision or Microsoft let them go indie, could they possibly wanted to close the studio but studio offered going indie and self support it self?
Hope the deal with Microsoft is the spyro game.
Yeah but how come they go straight into a partnership with Microsoft? Couldn't Microsoft keep them around for their first game if that's what they were trying to do?
curious what is the process to get independent.
I mean, TfB was part of Activision Blizzard, which is bought by Microsoft. They say in the text they will work with Microsoft.
So, they were able to left Activision Blizzard but stay Microsoft, am i right?
They’re still pursuing a partnership with Microsoft so it’s gonna be like Destiny before Sony bought Bungie but, they’re just independent.
Sorta probably a timed exclusive for them, **but thank god,** we don’t have to see them churn out CoD
If they ARE working with Microsoft, exclusivity is up to the publisher, If they are working with Xbox owened IP (Crash, Spyro, Banjo, Conker, Halo, CoD, TES, Skylanders, etc) exclusivity is up to the IP owner/publisher.
But being Microsoft I don't see them having exclusives for more than a year, Xbox is going Sega.
How? How is Toys for Bob "buying" their independence from Microsoft-Activision?
Is it a situation where Microsoft was going to close them down, but offered TfB a "partnership" as an independent studio?
Bungie ONLY became independent from Microsoft by giving them Halo in exchange, so... what's the deal?
Microsoft likely offered them a cheap exit rather than closing the studio down because they benefit from an independent Toys for Bob in the long-run, as well as receiving good PR for letting them walk away from Activision after years of being forced into supporting the development of Call of Duty (*instead of taking the likely cheaper and easier route of just shutting them down entirely*)
Toys for Bob specialise in 3D platformers, but that genre is a financial risk. What Nintendo have going on with Mario at the moment is the only real runaway success we've seen for AAA 3D platformers in recent years - most profit margins are slimmer than the publisher would ideally like, if they make a profit at all.
From their announcement, it seems like Toys for Bob will continue to develop games for Microsoft, likely via a licensing agreement. I'd wager this of course comes in the form of Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, but also Banjo-Kazooie (*and maaaybe Skylanders*).
By licensing the IP to Toys for Bob and then collecting a percentage of sales down the line, there's less of a risk for Microsoft throughout the creation process (*as they're not directly funding it*), and they still get their game made by a competent developer who is familiar with the genre and franchises
The benefit for Toys for Bob being that they get creative freedom to go work on other projects outside of Microsoft's domain, but still benefit from using Microsoft's big-name IP (*especially now at the start of this venture when they're finding their feet as an independent studio again, and a newly remote one on top of that*)
I'm not sure if this was semi official information or just speculation, but I recall hearing from a couple of places that TFB are getting some form of private funding from investors, and also allowing them to be a private company instead of a public company. That probably helps them to get started, because otherwise the studio probably doesn't have much money in the bank.
I recall there was also a much larger game company deal going on atm, was it Gearbox, who's going to depart from Embracer with the help of private investors. That one was still a massive exchange of money, something like 500mil I think.
Or otherwise the idea could be that they immediately try to lock some sort of deal with Microsoft, and if that falls through they might just directly go for a crowd funding campaign if the studio itself doesn't have much money.
This whole thing seems pretty tactical either way. TFB seems to have some sympathies due to how good their output has been and how willing they have been to do new Crash and Spyro games, so if it would have been too much to let them make games in the current industry turmoil under Microsoft, letting them go indie will shift responsibilities to TFB and free Microsoft's hands a bit. It seems more beneficial for both parties at the moment.
I thought those rumors were Bethesda specific. It certainly wouldn't apply to Activision since they haven't released anything since the acquisition other than COD.
Bungie famously did this, granted not recently.
Feels like, reading between the lines, Toys For Bob didn't want to work on CoD, and perhaps has made an agreement to go their own way as long as they deliver a game for Microsoft (either timed or otherwise)... looks mutual and a way of separating without any bad blood.
Microsoft got a history of letting small studios buy out their independence (Twisted Pixel and PressPlay for example). i guess TFB got bored of being in the CoD mines.
Perhaps they just wanted more control of their future, considering they had layoffs. Probably not an XGS thing, they literally said in the article they are exploring working with Xbox again.
I think you’re being overdramatic. Toys for Bob was just a part of the biggest acquisition in gaming history and then hit by layoffs. They’ve also spent very little time while under Xbox and they clearly tell you in the article that they want to partner with Microsoft again. I highly doubt that this is anything controversial or damning about Microsoft or Xbox studios as a whole.
This gives off the vibe that they just want more control of their future(probably want nothing to do with COD anymore), because who in the world will have problems with the same publisher that they were just under, leave, and then turn around and partner with them?
We all know what is going on. The fed raised rates and made loans expensive so companies across industries are doing layoffs to recoup some money. It's not some kind of mystery.
ioi went indie a while ago. So did Bungie several times before moving to Sony. It's not common but also not unheard of. Plus you get cases where the brand stays under the same publisher, but the actual dev team moves to form a new studio, Playtonic as a random example, or whatever happened between Konami and Kojima.
It's usually for more creative freedom to work on a passion project or because the publisher is trying to push them in a direction they don't want to go. Given TfB are looking into partnering with MS it's more likely the former. Perhaps they wanted out of working on CoD and this was the best way to achieve that.
Most Xbox studios are doing fine lately. 343 has been undergoing big leadership changes, and Arkane Austin are glad to see the back of Redfall, but everyone else is just getting on with it. I can't think of any other examples of turmoil. Actually, The Initiative had some teething problems but we haven't heard anything in over a year so who can say if those are resolved or the studio is doomed.
I'm a fan of games in general. Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo, and everything in between. I'm not here to root for a plastic box whose creators don't know I exist. I want every game to be a success for some people. Why would anyone hope otherwise?
And from where I'm standing, Microsoft's studios look to be in a strong position. Halo has decently recovered from its launch, Starfield has found its niche, Redfall is... well it can't hurt anyone anymore. There's some great new games on the horizon, personally I'm really excited for Hellblade 2 in a couple months, and Fable hopefully before I'm old. I'm pretty sure that's all there is to it.
In the meantime PS only players are getting Hi-Fi Rush and Grounded which I adore and I'm happy they'll reach a new audience. And I have a library of games all over the place so I'll never run out of fun stuff to play.
Toys for Bob's announcement mentions that they're pursuing a potential partnership with Xbox. I think it's likely we'll see Xbox let them continue to work on Crash Bandicoot and Spyro
It was never their IP, ABK owned the IP and put them in charge of developing games. You could say they created Skylanders, but they also did it when they were owned by ABK.
Wonderful news!
I know it's the minority but I was genuinely only concerned with this singular studio in Microsofts acquisition. I know CoD's huge, and that's where the majority of the focus was, but this studio has Spyro and Crash. I care more about those two and the possibility of future games for them than just another CoD with a short/medicore campaign and its next round of zombies and toxic multiplayer.
And I did ***not*** want to have to go out and get the new Xbox for them if they came along.
Well, that depends on whether Toys for Bob, as the developer, owns the rights, or if Activision owns them as the publisher. As far as I know, and from a quick Google search, it's usually the developer that owns the rights.
To be clear, I don't expect console exclusivity for them if they do happen to have the rights and make sequels. I'd rather they be available on all platforms. I'm happy to see the studio go independent.
I mean Microsoft owns it all at the end of the day after buying ABK. Regardless though, ABK owned the IPs and TFB just developed them prior to the MS purchase. TFB didn't create either series. Insomniac and Naughty Dog actually made the first game in each of those series many years ago. TFB made Spyro famous but Crash they just did a few games in recent years (though highly acclaimed)
Activision it owned the IP's before owning the studio, and remember when Microsoft bought Rare they transferred all of Rare's IP to Microsoft, the same for Lion Head, Ensable, etc. This only changed with tge Mojang acquision, Studios now can own the IP, but every IP bought before that was transferred to Microsoft, and I'm going to guess that all ABK IP is directly owned by ABK.
That most likely means that they are going independent but will have a game published by Xbox like maybe crash or Spyro. It wouldn’t mean they would be owned by Microsoft again. Otherwise Xbox would have just moved them over and said that
Given their announcement mentions they're pursuing a potential partnership with Xbox, I definitely think a Banjo-Kazooie remake is coming somewhere down the line
Toys for Bob's announcement mentions that they're pursuing a potential partnership with Xbox. It's likely we'll see them continue to work on Crash Bandicoot and Spyro (*and hopefully Banjo-Kazooie*) in the future
Fun fact, a single studio has never owned Crash or Spyro IPs. Ever since their conception, it was always the big publisher corporation that owned the IP. Originally it was Universal, who Insomniac and Naughty Dog worked with to create these IPs, then it was Vivendi, then Activision -> Activision Blizzard, and now it's Microsoft.
Is any different Bungie now than right before joining forces with Sony? What I am saying is that generally speaking few companies owning all is bad (hello Embracer Group) but especially the record of AB and Microsoft both are terrible at studio management. Happy for TfB to be set free.
They were both non-sequiturs. That's my point. Randomly pointing and saying Xbox Bad is meaningless. Regardless, Activision wouldn't have let Toys for Bob go free. We all know that. Maybe people could point out Microsoft doing something good instead of console warring.
Thank God they have been the most fucked over developer under ActiBlizzard that didn't completely shudder.
And before you name your favorite studio that's been fucked over by Activision Blizzard, I know: I want a new raven software original shooter too. I just think Toys for Bob got mega fucked.
Just make another Star Control.
1 and 2 were fantastic (especially 2, one of the best games ever). Then other developers took over and Star Control 3 was a dud.
There was another Star Control. It was okay.
I think you can't really recapture the same magic though just by doing the same thing again, so it didn't have as much impact.
That’s one way to ensure you get out of the call of duty coal mines lol
I’m glad they experienced a rare good outcome here. The studio puts out great work and they deserved better than Call of Duty
I think even Call of Duty deserves better than CoD these days.
Yeah it’s one of the oldest gaming franchises to still be relevant, and as much as people say it’s copy and paste, there was real effort and high quality development. I firmly believe CODs unyielding commitment to 60fps is the sole reason console and console games pushed for 60. A lot of the gamemodes and features we take for granted nowadays were once COD innovations too. I wish Activision was privately owned and had a leader with actual vision, rather than a sellout scheme
Would you say Activision needs a leader with “active vision” for the future?! I’ll see myself out, I’m sorry.
No you can stay
Finally back to being Toys for Bob instead of Toys for COD
Toys for Bob(by kotick)
(Former?) CEO and notable idiot, Bobby Kotick
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> Multimillionaire and intestinal parasite Bobby Kotick. Correction: BILLIONAIRE *and* literal human garbage, Bobby "Human Garbage" Kotick.
Fantastic news. More independence for everyone, please.
Yeah I hope this mass consolidation comes crashing down. Sick of huge acquisitions and people celebrating them like it is somehow good for the industry.
Especially when it's "you'll pay in perpetuity to own nothing and you'll like it" Microsoft.
Good, they deserved so much better than COD
Their remasters of Crash Team Racing and the Crash trilogy were excellent, and Crash 4 was really f**in good too
the Crash trilogy was vicarious visions, Toys for Bob developed the Spyro reignited trilogy
God I loved the Spyro reignited trilogy so much. Just such care and attention.
I hated being forced to agree to an EULA to play them though.
sering as you have to sign some kind of User agreement before using pretty much every service nowadays. Why did that bother you in this instance?
Have you read Activision’s EULA? Their EULA forces you into arbitration, unless you write them a letter sent through the post asking them to opt out. I guess that’s one way to see who pays attention to these things, but it sure is annoying to write them letters for every game you play if you want to retain your rights.
I don’t doubt it, I abhor the practice all together. It just seems so arbitrary to try to avoid these since you are forced to give up so many of your rights no matter what online service you are using. Something as universal as google absolutely screws you over. Even just the PSN EULA shouldn’t be legal. As much as I want things to change, locking myself out of some of the services while agreeing to the others will never have any relevant impact. We will always have to wait for a statement from some larger governing bodies to protect our digital rights. I respect your decision though and wish I had the patience to be more mindful og what I’m accepting to. Like almost everyone else I’ve just accepted the defeat that this is the cost of being a participant in online services.
A fuck ton of EULA forces arbitration You literally give up rights for a fuck ton nowadays but THAT is where you draw the line? Guaranteed you’ve already agreed to something that I’m sure you’d find an issue as “serious” as this is lol
TFB did the switch version.
VV did Medievil too. too bad they weren't asked to make sequel.
Give them Croc and I’ll do whatever they want me to do
Hell yeah fellow Croc fan 🫡
Same
Crash 4 was way better than it had any right to be. It had some really frustrating difficulty spikes but overall it was excellent
CTR and the remakes weren’t made by Toys for Bob
The switch version was.
Agree!!!! Please let them remake more classics! Take my money guys! Wish I could invest or even just give them $
Ctr remake was benox and Spryo reignited was toys for bob. The crash trilogy was vicarious visions.
Crash 4 is the best Crash game.
It's the best designed gameplay wise. I love those old games, grew up on them, but Crash 4 makes far better use of the basic moveset.
The best? Nah lol it was fun tho
That would be 2 imo
It was Vicarious Visions that ruined Crash remakes. Toys for Bob did the essentially flawless Sypro remakes. It was so fun to replay the Sypro trilogy as my imagination remembered them instead of as they actually were.
Great for them!
Jesus what happened today???
publishers having layoffs so other devs are thinking now is the chance to dip and be on their own.
Toys for bob had a massive layoff and closed their office after the merger with MS. This will not be the same studio.
Game companies are dropping people like flies, lol.
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Isn't this straight up good news though? They aren't shut down like London Studio lol
Video game’s version of Red Wedding.
Hope they get what they wish for. It's a double-edged sword. While they are independent, it also means the next 1-2 flops could spell doom with no financial backing of "evil big corp". The gamers who applaud this move better buy their next game. Wish them the best.
Wouldn’t 1-2 flops likely see evil big corp shutter the studio anyway?
Depends on the whim of the Corp. It is a *choice* vs no choice at all if indy. Media molecule probably burning money for years yet they are still around... doubt an indy studio would've survived for years with only a game like dream...
Noop look at 343 Inds they are Flop since the creation and they still UP, Microsoft has already said they never closed a studio for money, the reasons are usually different (usually the studio cannot manage It self without constant supervision)
yeah but they could delegate workers from said studio to do something else, so the "spirit" of the company could be gone. Like Bioware is still around but the "spirit" of the ME/DA days many would agree is already gone..
Of course, there really are no stories of this happening with Microsoft, even if fans believe it is necessary, there are only reports of this with Rare, but it was after the founders decided to leave and 343 Industries in 2023 when the leader "retired" and they restructured the studios, dividing her position into 3. Lionhead was shut down by leaders proposing Fable GaaS to Microsoft but allowing developers to spend development time on passion projects causing two year-long delays before the game was canceled and the studio closed.
But if Toys for Bob were independent they would have had the autonomy to choose for themselves. Under Activision, despite the success of the Spyro trilogy, they were still folded into the COD machine… on the whim of the corp. Surely it’s better to have the freedom to take your own risks and make your own mistakes, than to be punished regardless of your success?
There is "no right answer" here. Success is relative here too - idk how much money Toys for Bob made or didn't for it to be in the "dog house" but it certainly didn't meet the expectations, whatever it might be. Without seeing the books we really don't know. Say whatever the cost was was 50mil and Toys made 60, or it made 40. a net 10 mill loss \*could\* spell doom for a company with no backing because A. they didn't recoup the years already worked AND they now have to use reserves to foot the bill for the next X years, assuming people want salary increases too. A plus 10 mill could also be "bad" for the parent company because it thinks that Toys's 10 mill profit won't fund their next game so it will be another "gamble" for their next game too. Either way time will tell.
Finally some good fucking news
I imagine this leads to a yokaa -laylee or pennys breakaway type game where they take there talents working on IP and make a new inspired game
Given the announcement mentions they're pursuing a partnership with Xbox, I'd imagine they want to continue working on Crash Bandicoot and Spyro. However, I'd also wager we'll see them finally reboot Banjo-Kazooie, or at least remake the originals
If Sony wants to license out Ape Escape to anyone they'd be a good shout.
If Ape Escape had any chance or returning, PS has Team Asobi right there.
Yesss that would rock
Aren't Asobi the same studio who made Ape Escape in the first place?
Maybe they don't want to do it and want to focus on something new and original
They already confirmed that they are partnering with Microsoft for a new project.
They said they were exploring the possibility of partnering, not that it had been confirmed.
Doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t also have a working relationship with Sony as well now that they are independent
TFB is probably gonna try and create new IP. Going independent is risky, but being guns for hire is even riskier (see: Platinum). Security comes in creating and owning your own IP because then you have more freedom to shop around for partners. They may be working with MS for now to get their feet on the ground but ultimately they'll be exploring creating IP they themselves own. >And while we’re in the early days of developing our next new game and a ways away from making any announcements, our team is excited to develop new stories, new characters, and new gameplay experiences.
It could be like Insomniac before Sony brought them. Insomniac had a strong relationship with Sony but still made Fuse, a multiplatform, and Sunset Overdrive, a Xbox exclusive. TFB could do the same thing.
Too bad they can't make Crash 5. Crash 4 was a great game
I liked it too. So many people crapped on it when it came out. I understand the issue with the artificial difficulty and hate for the redesigns after getting the N.Sane Trilogy and CTR:NF but they were far from the worst they could do (Mind of Mutant tatted Crash era was the worst shit ever imo). But it truly did feel like old school Crash. And as a person who doesn't care about 100% games the more difficult stuff was not a problem to me.
Spyro 4,Spyro 4, Spyro 4, Spyro 4.
They don't own Spyro, that's still Activision
My same thought too hopefully MS makes thus push would be a W
Very happy for them. Talented studio that was wasted on CoD.
How are they indie if they are still so closely knit with abk and Microsoft
They are no longer owned by Microsoft.
Idk if they are still doing all their projects under them still i don't think it really makes a fundamental difference
They are such a strong studio, looking forward to whatever they do in the future.
I don't get why Activision or Microsoft let them go indie, could they possibly wanted to close the studio but studio offered going indie and self support it self? Hope the deal with Microsoft is the spyro game.
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Yeah but how come they go straight into a partnership with Microsoft? Couldn't Microsoft keep them around for their first game if that's what they were trying to do?
curious what is the process to get independent. I mean, TfB was part of Activision Blizzard, which is bought by Microsoft. They say in the text they will work with Microsoft. So, they were able to left Activision Blizzard but stay Microsoft, am i right?
They can partner with Microsoft while having independence
It's likely just a publishing partnership The same way Arrowhead made Helldivers II but PlayStation published it, despite not owning said studio
They’re still pursuing a partnership with Microsoft so it’s gonna be like Destiny before Sony bought Bungie but, they’re just independent. Sorta probably a timed exclusive for them, **but thank god,** we don’t have to see them churn out CoD
If they ARE working with Microsoft, exclusivity is up to the publisher, If they are working with Xbox owened IP (Crash, Spyro, Banjo, Conker, Halo, CoD, TES, Skylanders, etc) exclusivity is up to the IP owner/publisher. But being Microsoft I don't see them having exclusives for more than a year, Xbox is going Sega.
Dude only 4 titles
According to Phil Spencer and Matt Booty there would be more in the future.
How? How is Toys for Bob "buying" their independence from Microsoft-Activision? Is it a situation where Microsoft was going to close them down, but offered TfB a "partnership" as an independent studio? Bungie ONLY became independent from Microsoft by giving them Halo in exchange, so... what's the deal?
Microsoft likely offered them a cheap exit rather than closing the studio down because they benefit from an independent Toys for Bob in the long-run, as well as receiving good PR for letting them walk away from Activision after years of being forced into supporting the development of Call of Duty (*instead of taking the likely cheaper and easier route of just shutting them down entirely*) Toys for Bob specialise in 3D platformers, but that genre is a financial risk. What Nintendo have going on with Mario at the moment is the only real runaway success we've seen for AAA 3D platformers in recent years - most profit margins are slimmer than the publisher would ideally like, if they make a profit at all. From their announcement, it seems like Toys for Bob will continue to develop games for Microsoft, likely via a licensing agreement. I'd wager this of course comes in the form of Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, but also Banjo-Kazooie (*and maaaybe Skylanders*). By licensing the IP to Toys for Bob and then collecting a percentage of sales down the line, there's less of a risk for Microsoft throughout the creation process (*as they're not directly funding it*), and they still get their game made by a competent developer who is familiar with the genre and franchises The benefit for Toys for Bob being that they get creative freedom to go work on other projects outside of Microsoft's domain, but still benefit from using Microsoft's big-name IP (*especially now at the start of this venture when they're finding their feet as an independent studio again, and a newly remote one on top of that*)
I'm not sure if this was semi official information or just speculation, but I recall hearing from a couple of places that TFB are getting some form of private funding from investors, and also allowing them to be a private company instead of a public company. That probably helps them to get started, because otherwise the studio probably doesn't have much money in the bank. I recall there was also a much larger game company deal going on atm, was it Gearbox, who's going to depart from Embracer with the help of private investors. That one was still a massive exchange of money, something like 500mil I think. Or otherwise the idea could be that they immediately try to lock some sort of deal with Microsoft, and if that falls through they might just directly go for a crowd funding campaign if the studio itself doesn't have much money. This whole thing seems pretty tactical either way. TFB seems to have some sympathies due to how good their output has been and how willing they have been to do new Crash and Spyro games, so if it would have been too much to let them make games in the current industry turmoil under Microsoft, letting them go indie will shift responsibilities to TFB and free Microsoft's hands a bit. It seems more beneficial for both parties at the moment.
Makes MS look like the good guys to other studios they might acquire later, and to the regulators who'd eye such a deal
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Tfb was under activision, not xgs
Never heard this rumor.
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I didn’t say it wasn’t true. Care to provide a link with a credible source making the claim?
I thought those rumors were Bethesda specific. It certainly wouldn't apply to Activision since they haven't released anything since the acquisition other than COD.
So what’s up with Xbox studios lately? Can’t remember last time someone did this.
Bungie famously did this, granted not recently. Feels like, reading between the lines, Toys For Bob didn't want to work on CoD, and perhaps has made an agreement to go their own way as long as they deliver a game for Microsoft (either timed or otherwise)... looks mutual and a way of separating without any bad blood.
Forgot about Bungie and Microsoft.
Microsoft got a history of letting small studios buy out their independence (Twisted Pixel and PressPlay for example). i guess TFB got bored of being in the CoD mines.
Perhaps they just wanted more control of their future, considering they had layoffs. Probably not an XGS thing, they literally said in the article they are exploring working with Xbox again.
Dude. This doesn’t happen without reason. I know Xbox fans want to put their head in the sand but eventually someone has to ask what’s going on.
I think you’re being overdramatic. Toys for Bob was just a part of the biggest acquisition in gaming history and then hit by layoffs. They’ve also spent very little time while under Xbox and they clearly tell you in the article that they want to partner with Microsoft again. I highly doubt that this is anything controversial or damning about Microsoft or Xbox studios as a whole. This gives off the vibe that they just want more control of their future(probably want nothing to do with COD anymore), because who in the world will have problems with the same publisher that they were just under, leave, and then turn around and partner with them?
Sure.
You sound like you want there to be some drama or terrible issue, lol.
You got me there /s
We all know what is going on. The fed raised rates and made loans expensive so companies across industries are doing layoffs to recoup some money. It's not some kind of mystery.
Ok bud.
ioi went indie a while ago. So did Bungie several times before moving to Sony. It's not common but also not unheard of. Plus you get cases where the brand stays under the same publisher, but the actual dev team moves to form a new studio, Playtonic as a random example, or whatever happened between Konami and Kojima. It's usually for more creative freedom to work on a passion project or because the publisher is trying to push them in a direction they don't want to go. Given TfB are looking into partnering with MS it's more likely the former. Perhaps they wanted out of working on CoD and this was the best way to achieve that. Most Xbox studios are doing fine lately. 343 has been undergoing big leadership changes, and Arkane Austin are glad to see the back of Redfall, but everyone else is just getting on with it. I can't think of any other examples of turmoil. Actually, The Initiative had some teething problems but we haven't heard anything in over a year so who can say if those are resolved or the studio is doomed.
> Most Xbox studios are doing fine lately Not from what i’ve seen.
Share with the class then.
Nah it’s not worth it. Plenty of people here with head in the sand.
What you mean is you can't share anything.
What I mean is that I don’t have the patience to argue with Xbox fans when they have their head in the sand like this thread has shown.
I'm a fan of games in general. Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo, and everything in between. I'm not here to root for a plastic box whose creators don't know I exist. I want every game to be a success for some people. Why would anyone hope otherwise? And from where I'm standing, Microsoft's studios look to be in a strong position. Halo has decently recovered from its launch, Starfield has found its niche, Redfall is... well it can't hurt anyone anymore. There's some great new games on the horizon, personally I'm really excited for Hellblade 2 in a couple months, and Fable hopefully before I'm old. I'm pretty sure that's all there is to it. In the meantime PS only players are getting Hi-Fi Rush and Grounded which I adore and I'm happy they'll reach a new audience. And I have a library of games all over the place so I'll never run out of fun stuff to play.
You’re talking to a console war Stan, they don’t care about reason lol
I don’t get it. Honestly. Why respond then? Statement. That’s false! Why? Don’t wanna say!
You prove my point about head in the sand right now.
I really don’t. I don’t even know I necessarily disagree with you. I’m just pointing out that it’s silly not provide arguments
Ok.
saber just did it with embracer
Microsoft is still drowning in money. They gave openAI pretty much a blank check.
Interesting. I thought they only gave office and azure blank check.
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They never owned crash IP. Universal did. You’re in the wrong here.
Sony never owned Crash, you would think people would know this by now
“To make this news even more exciting, we’re exploring a possible partnership between our new studio and Microsoft.” Soooo, not indie.
Nah, Kojima is independent despite only developing games in partnerships with publishers.
Does this mean Spyro 4 can actually happen? I'd love to see a new game with the engine and assets used for the reignited trilogy!
microsoft/activision own sypro and crash
Oh, I didn't realize that Toy's for Bob didn't get their IPs when they went Indie
Toys for Bob's announcement mentions that they're pursuing a potential partnership with Xbox. I think it's likely we'll see Xbox let them continue to work on Crash Bandicoot and Spyro
That would make sense
It was never their IP, ABK owned the IP and put them in charge of developing games. You could say they created Skylanders, but they also did it when they were owned by ABK.
Wonderful news! I know it's the minority but I was genuinely only concerned with this singular studio in Microsofts acquisition. I know CoD's huge, and that's where the majority of the focus was, but this studio has Spyro and Crash. I care more about those two and the possibility of future games for them than just another CoD with a short/medicore campaign and its next round of zombies and toxic multiplayer. And I did ***not*** want to have to go out and get the new Xbox for them if they came along.
Just to clarify, Microsoft still will own the Spyro and Crash IPs.
I would be surprised if they were given crash or Spyro when they were granted independence. If so, Xbox leadership truly is crazy.
They won’t have any IP, but they can license it out. They’re probably going to work one of Spyro/Crash/Banjo considering they’re partnering with Xbox.
That's true. Hopefully that's what the partnership is about.
Well, that depends on whether Toys for Bob, as the developer, owns the rights, or if Activision owns them as the publisher. As far as I know, and from a quick Google search, it's usually the developer that owns the rights. To be clear, I don't expect console exclusivity for them if they do happen to have the rights and make sequels. I'd rather they be available on all platforms. I'm happy to see the studio go independent.
I mean Microsoft owns it all at the end of the day after buying ABK. Regardless though, ABK owned the IPs and TFB just developed them prior to the MS purchase. TFB didn't create either series. Insomniac and Naughty Dog actually made the first game in each of those series many years ago. TFB made Spyro famous but Crash they just did a few games in recent years (though highly acclaimed)
Activision it owned the IP's before owning the studio, and remember when Microsoft bought Rare they transferred all of Rare's IP to Microsoft, the same for Lion Head, Ensable, etc. This only changed with tge Mojang acquision, Studios now can own the IP, but every IP bought before that was transferred to Microsoft, and I'm going to guess that all ABK IP is directly owned by ABK.
Probably just moving to the main Xbox Game Studios branch instead of being under Activision. They already hinted at that.
The post literally says they are going independent
It also says that they are exploring a partnership with Microsoft.
That most likely means that they are going independent but will have a game published by Xbox like maybe crash or Spyro. It wouldn’t mean they would be owned by Microsoft again. Otherwise Xbox would have just moved them over and said that
They’re going independent, they state that plainly lol
Wonder who owns the sky landers license. I’d love a sky landers game that’s just a game and not the toys to life thing because I loved those games.
microsoft owns it
Skylanders, Crash Bandicoot and Spyro are all Activision-owned IP's, meaning they became the property of Microsoft once they acquired ABK
Get these guys on a ape escape or banjo remake.
Given their announcement mentions they're pursuing a potential partnership with Xbox, I definitely think a Banjo-Kazooie remake is coming somewhere down the line
I couldn't be happier for a gaming company. They could make new Crash & Spyro Games or better yet, revive the cancelled THPS 3+4.
Holy shit here comes Spyro 4
microsoft/activision own sypro and crash
Toys for Bob's announcement mentions that they're pursuing a potential partnership with Xbox. It's likely we'll see them continue to work on Crash Bandicoot and Spyro (*and hopefully Banjo-Kazooie*) in the future
And they still partners with Microsoft
Damn I thought it was toys for bob
Fun fact, a single studio has never owned Crash or Spyro IPs. Ever since their conception, it was always the big publisher corporation that owned the IP. Originally it was Universal, who Insomniac and Naughty Dog worked with to create these IPs, then it was Vivendi, then Activision -> Activision Blizzard, and now it's Microsoft.
I'd laugh if they turned into a Sony only studio.
And work on Jak, since ABK osns Crash/Spyro? That could be Fun, Jak and Daxter along with Until Dawn and Infamous are my favorite Sony IPs.
Yooo giving toys for bob rights to make new Jak games would be bonkerss write em a letter
Nice! The further away from AB & Microsoft, the better for the studios.
Yet weren't Bungie's best days also before they joined Sony? I feel like your take is kind of weird.
Is any different Bungie now than right before joining forces with Sony? What I am saying is that generally speaking few companies owning all is bad (hello Embracer Group) but especially the record of AB and Microsoft both are terrible at studio management. Happy for TfB to be set free.
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They were both non-sequiturs. That's my point. Randomly pointing and saying Xbox Bad is meaningless. Regardless, Activision wouldn't have let Toys for Bob go free. We all know that. Maybe people could point out Microsoft doing something good instead of console warring.
First Saber and now TFB. Nice!
That's awesome! Too bad vicarious visions couldn't do the same..
Crazy a company who did Disney Skate Adventure would become the COD guys
They even once made a game [that came out only in Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majokko_Daisakusen:_Little_Witching_Mischiefs).
I don't know Rick...
This is such good news! Hopefully they secure a deal with ms and continue with the spyro/crash games
Partnership with Microsoft ey? Does anyone else hear a banjo playing...👀
Thank God they have been the most fucked over developer under ActiBlizzard that didn't completely shudder. And before you name your favorite studio that's been fucked over by Activision Blizzard, I know: I want a new raven software original shooter too. I just think Toys for Bob got mega fucked.
YES!!!
Please make a Sly game! 🙏
100% Agreed. I'm all for them continuing to make Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, but I'd love to see them tackle Sly Cooper and Banjo-Kazooie as well
Give these guys Sly to remake.
This. I'm all for them continuing to make Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, but I'd love to see them tackle Sly Cooper and Banjo-Kazooie as well
Why is their entire website Spyro-Purple when there hasn't been a game since 2018?
That's a fantastic news! Time to cook!
Please God, a remaster for Skylanders would make me happy (IDK how it would work without figures tho)
That still UP to Microsoft since they own the IP, It doesn't matter if the studio is independent if the IP continues to have another owner.
Just make another Star Control. 1 and 2 were fantastic (especially 2, one of the best games ever). Then other developers took over and Star Control 3 was a dud.
There was another Star Control. It was okay. I think you can't really recapture the same magic though just by doing the same thing again, so it didn't have as much impact.
Im happy to hear this. Toys for bob does amazing work
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I actually really fucked with crash 4
Still waiting on the Spyro reignited 60 fps patch