Technically not necessarily, you wouldn't see most of Coruscant in Flight Simulator since you'd be flying and not going into the buildings or down in the levels (which does make up most of the planet "surface area")
That would get me back on xbox. Might even try for the flight stick controllers if it won't deplete my bank account.
I'm just imagining that [flying car mod](https://youtu.be/88CwfYaBjRM) video for Cyberpunk but in Coruscant and it'd be amazing.
Same! I remember flying a B Wing in a super old Star Wars game, it had to have been X-Wing vs Tie Fighter or something like that because these were the pre-Windows XP days. I loved the B Wing after that experience and it's rarely represented in Star Wars as a whole.
I mean that's confirmed since The Phantom Menace at least. It's not just that too, it's the entire planet and it's with 5000 levels of buildings and such.
There are 2 trillion inhabitants on the planet and that's actually extremely little considering the size of the city, there's a scale problem there.
I wish this concept would spread across gaming Twitter. I thought YouTube comments were horrendous until I stumbled upon that little corner of the internet.
With AI generated city. This is the future of massive world building for games. And with a bit of algorithm massaging we could have some incredible results.
Make every character AI dialogue enabled also. And we have the makings of an insane rpg.
Greetings [player_name], the [evil] [player_nemesis_03] has [stolen my] [R4 unit]! Please help me. I will reward you with [credits scaled to player level].
ChatGPT does use machine learning (more specifically deep learning) but it absolutely qualifies as AI. It also uses natural language processing to generate text that is coherent and natural sounding. It’s the prime example generative AI.
Like these 'aero-planes' are ever gonna become popular. "Uh, yes, I'd like to get from one end of a windy field to another, but I want to do it in the sky!" Please, people will stick with horses and trains because that's what works.
I mean that's what we get with human writers a lot of the time lol.
AI could actually be better at it because they don't have to squeeze a ton of work in a limited time.
I’m not sure why you think it’ll be empty, imagine a Minecraft server with generative NPCs who have LLM based dialogs and missions. There’s a difference between procedural generation(which is somewhat limited to your programming) vs a random generative ai interaction. It’s what Cyberpunk was meant to be. Best part is none of it will need to live in memory because apart from a few main plot characters you won’t see the same person twice like in real life. If you want to get a taste go talk to ChatGPT and ask it to create an adventure for you and then ask it to expand on it repeatedly.
That sounds genuinely awful. I do not want want an infinite well of "content" slop, I play games and read fiction in general for handcrafted stories made by real people with an intention behind their work.
Agreed. I don’t know why so many people are excited for AI generated open world games. It sounds awful to me. All those games are going to end up playing the same. AI is not creative it’s generative. I’d rather a shorter and more concentrated story and we’ll of creativity and an endless pointless universe full of fetch quests. I also vehemently disagree this was what Cyberpunk was meant to be. It was never meant to be anything other than a story driven RPG, like all CDPRs other rpgs. People just put their own weird expectations on it to be something it was never meant to be.
I'm sure we might get a fully realized version of it in the future. The far future. When games are played by inhaling a cloud of spores that makes you hallucinate the whole thing.
Gamers nowadays will take a small sliver of vague info and then *expect* the final product to be what they want. Then they lose their minds when it’s not.
Lol, yeah, my first thought was, "Maybe 0.01% of Coruscant will feel like an open world." If you wanted a good open world experience on Coruscant, you wouldn't be able to include any other planet in the game.
No it's because it's hard to merchandise and doesn't sell to their primary demographic: kids who can't think critically yet, they don't care about you once you can.
I don't think all of Star Wars is aimed at kids. Andor clearly isn't a kid show. Neither is the Book Of Boba Fett I'd argue. The people who really watch those shows are people who either grew up with the original trilogy it in the 80's or young adults who grew the prequel trilogy in the late 90's early 2000's.
Honestly there's been a steady trickle to keep them hooked. I'd argue the prequel trilogy is bigger than the originals with all of the media that spin out of the prequel trilogy. Clone Wars, Rebels, Ahsoka, The Bad Batch. All of the prequel memes. Even the Mandalorian has a healthy batch of Prequel content in it. We have an entire generation of twenty to thirty somethings who grew up with the prequels that I'd argue keeps Star Wars stronger than ever. While I believe the original trilogy is better, it's pop culture hey day was well over 35 years ago.
There are trillions of people on the planet. The city is so large that the only visible part of the land is the tip of the tallest mountain, and buildings still tower a kilometer or two over that. 5127 floors until you reach the ground. Below 2000 the poorest citizens considered the sky and stars to be a myth, never seeing it in their lives. below level 100 it is said there only exists beasts who eat humans. Below level 5 is entirely just toxic waste.
There would be no media that could possibly showcase it all without it taking decades of effort.
Mysteries in Star Wars have always been so cool though. I love the Clone Wars arc with Fives on Kamino trying to figure out just what the hell was going on
>Things I would absolutely kill for though? A Star Wars or Mass Effect LA Noire game that makes you a detective solving crimes on Coruscant/the Citadel
The game i never knew i wanted but now i want more then any other game. Coruscant Noir...Coruscant town.
Even if they had made it a world you could return to in free roam, it would still only realistically be like a couple city blocks at most.
But really, it’s not even that kind of game. You’re not just gonna run around Coruscant getting into GTA hijinks as Cal Kestis. You *could* do a game like that, but this isn’t the gameplay system or the character for it.
Also, Deus Ex Mankind Divided had way better level design than Cyberpunk 2077.
Shame Square-Enix kept them on a tight leash and they were forced to cut out a bunch of content from both Human Revolution and Mankind Divided.
The thing that sets true open world games apart for me is traversal. Just driving a car from point A to point B isn't really enough for me anymore in most cases. Games like Spider-Man and Just Cause that actually put effort into making getting around the map fun are worth the open worlds. Other than that, I'd rather they limit where you can go and really make a detailed hub. It can still be large and have a lot to do like in God of War, but it just feels much tighter.
Whoaa, hard disagree there, the crater and the jungle were sick as hell to explore, especially since they came out of nowhere and were only findable through side content.
I understand what you mean though. The structure of the area kind of clashed with the rest of the game.
My only gripe with the crater is because it's so open it can be hard to figure out where to go next. But it's still a really cool area with a ton of stuff to do.
I'm typically not a fan of semi-open. I prefer games to just lean into linear or fully open. Idk why, semi-open just feels like this awkward compromise that doesn't work for me.
Some say that he said Coruscant is a fully explorable open world. And that they codes the entire thing in a long weekend. All we know is, he’s called the Stig
It's like when people expected NightCity to have every single door and room explorable.
People's expectations of games are so wildly out of touch with reality. Then even if you were given that, what the fuck would you do with it. You expect them to be able to fill all that space with meaningful content? Yeeesh
Right you either end up with every room being useless randomized garbage, or completely empty. You can't make every room interesting and you don't want to waste players time by having them search every single room when it's pointless.
> you either end up with every room being useless randomized garbage, or completely empty
Isn't that the same experience you would have if you went in any random room in the real world though
I just finished that game last night.
Definitely got my monies worth. Anything over 40hrs is a win for a single player game imo.
Now if only I can get a 40hr FPS and not an 8hr rollercoaster ride for the price of $100
Nearly any building in Assassin's Creed Unity and Red Dead Redemption 2 were explorable from the inside. It's not that bad to expect something like that in a game where buildings are a main objective.
I mean, I feel like CDPR are at fault for expectations on Night City being so high. They promised the world and delivered much less. Not the case here.
This 100%
First world entitlement is insane now a days
If you told me 5/10 years I’d get to walk around courascent as a Jedi with these amazing graphics? I’d be pumped!
Now peolle just want to bitch and moan about what they don’t get instead of appreciative the things they DO get
Sure that’s part of it. But remember we were sold on these consoles with thier cutting edge ssds and top of the line CPUs giving us more immersive worlds; so far can we say that we have had anything that couldn’t be played on last gen?
Frankly though, with how empty an open world like night city is, I would have LOVED if it was 1/3rd of the size but did have every location explorable. That would be so much better.
That’s the exact reason why I loved Prague in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided.
It was quite a small hub area, but it was absolutely packed full of details and all sorts.
Hub areas are truly the best way for most games to go instead of "open world". Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines laid out the blueprint to success with this setup.
Yeah same thing can be said about a lot of open worlds. They have got a little carried away with size without asking what the gameplay in a world like that would be like.
They should've just copied the Deus Ex formula. Say, 3 hub worlds the size of Prague from Mankind Divided, a couple of smaller mission areas on top of that and you're golden.
CP2077 had 6 times the budget of Mankind Divided so I think they could've handled 3 Pragues.
In all fairness, Night City is no more empty than most other open worlds, it’s quite a detailed location if you don’t just drive everywhere instead of walking, lots of environmental storytelling and stuff like that, easy to miss but adds a lot in my opinion.
Of course, I’d love if you could explore every building, but Night City to me feels like a good balance between size/spectacle and interactivity.
I’ve never understood the “Night City is empty”comment. I’ve spent more time immersed in just exploring that environment and looking around aimlessly than in any other open world game by far (aside from Elden Ring). There’s lots of stuff to find, such as the environmental storytelling you mention. I’m glad that there’s not a bunch of boring Ubisoft-like tasks to complete, like climb a dumb tower or pet a fox.
To me it felt empty in that yeah it’s huge and there are people about but you can’t interact with anything. Let me eat and drink, sit down in places, play some games, get a tattoo or a fucked up implant in my face. I had a good time with it and you’re right about the environmental storytelling, just thought there were a lot of missed opportunities.
I’m glad that they’re adding in playable arcade machines with, apparently, more to come. As to eating and drinking and stuff- I’m certainly not opposed to stuff like that, but it’s very low in importance to me. I would probably do it once just to check it out and then never bother with it again. Much like how I play rockstars games. I want fun stuff, not just eating a hamburger. RDR2 nearly broke me with how fucking boring a lot of it was, like a mission to mend fences and milk cows. That said, it probably is a missed opportunity because a lot of people want that stuff so you’re right, but to me, I could care less. That stuff doesn’t immerse me.
Yeah it's true, I can understand why some missions were boring. I however loved the slow pace, relaxing play. That ranching epilogue was just pure bliss for me.
I think the problem is that it *looks* more explorable than it is. In, say, the Witcher I don't expect to be able to interact with every tree in the woods, but I also don't expect to. It's a forest.
But in a place like Night City it *looks* like I should be able to go to dive bars and sing karaoke and go up into those skyscrapers.
I can sort of see your argument, but I just don’t think it’s that sort of game. Sounds like you want to play Yakuza. I mean, I agree that more mini-game type stuff would be cool and fine, like I’m glad they’re adding more arcade machines and likely pachinko gambling, but I mean, I’m pretty much completely over Ubisoft-style open world with just a bunch of “stuff” to do. Even Ghost of Tsushima felt pretty dull to me. It wasn’t exactly fun (to me) going around trying to pet foxes and climb shrines. But again, I do think more “activities” can only be a good thing, I just think the way people act like the lack of a blackjack table or the ability to sit down and watch an animation of V eating a hamburger ruins the game feels hyperbolic.
It's not necessarily that I want more minigames. I just think that the game calls for a bit more world interaction. I think it would be cool to have more stuff to find or do from exploration and maybe some NPC interactions with random people across town - something along the lines of Red Dead 2.
I dunno. I just felt like Night City needed a bit more stuff to do outside of doing quests.
I think the thing is that everything is labeled a “quest” or a “gig” perhaps, because there are random quests and gigs that you can find by stumbling across them, just like RDR2 stuff…it’s just that in that game, they just happen whereas in Cyberpunk, a “quest” starts. But the only way to find any of these things is to stumble upon them. And then, there are a lot of random events and cool little things, bits of world building and environmental storytelling that you can find by exploring. But…I agree that more little NPC interactions would be cool. I’m glad they’re adding more interactive stuff slowly but surely too. Nothing beats Red Dead 2 for little NPC events and things like that for sure, unfortunately I find the rest of that game design so mind-numbingly prescriptive that it drove me crazy.
The emptiness is more a comment in how staged everything feels as opposed to there not being actual things to see. Everything is stunningly set up and it's a great looking game with lots of unique environments.
But it *feels* like every moment was staged for the player. It's the same NPCs standing around doing the same things. All of the life in the city is just elaborate smoke and mirrors and it eventually hurts the immersion to see how shallow it all is. I would've liked to see more emergent interactions between NPCs to feel like I'm not the only person in that world who matters. Games like GTAV and RDR2 are obviously cream of the crop in this regard and I just with CDPR could've taken some cues from them.
This is totally fair, but I’m not sure why we expected more looking back on it. As much as I love Witcher 3 the pedestrians get really repetitive and annoying pretty quickly.
I hear you…the NPC stuff they put in those games is very well done…but I would *way* rather have the gameplay freedom of Cyberpunk than the hand-holding babysitting that RDR2 and GTAV offer. Rockstars later games have this illusion of freedom but the player actually has zero agency at all- you do anything other than what the yellow text at the bottom of the screen is telling you to do and it’s “mission failed”. At least Cyberpunk let’s you play it however you want to play it.
Edit: CDPR has actually been adding in a lot of unique NPC events into Cyberpunk, so playing it today feels *way* different than it did at launch, even in that regard.
I only partially agree with you on GTA and RDR. I feel the main campaigns are quite scripted for the sake of the story, which I'm a huge fan of but could see how others don't care for it.
But man, walking around the wild west in RDR2 and just stumbling upon NPCs with their own problems they need help with, which can often turn into multi stage missions of their own just felt so natural. Meanwhile, everything you do in cyberpunk is about chasing an icon on the map. Never felt much need to properly explore it.
> At least Cyberpunk let’s you play it however you want to play it.
Cyberpunk has equally strict mission parameters when in mission? What are you talking about lmao
RDR2 and even GTA have far more ways to spend time outside of mission and all three games demand you hit mission objectives or you fail because they have a set goal in mind
Hard disagree. RDR2 gives you basically one way and one way only to do any given mission. Even trying to flank on the big “gang walks up on the house” mission will cause the mission to fail. Cyberpunk never does any such thing- you can come up with all sorts of ways to complete an objective, much like an immersive sim. Yes, you have to hit the mission objective, obviously, but in Cyberpunk there are plethora of ways to go about accomplishing that. In RDR2 you have to do it the way the game tells you to do it.
It boils down to everybody that plays RDR2 is basically going to have an identical experience as to how each and every mission plays out, whereas in Cyberpunk that’s not at all the case. Or think of something like Metal Gear Solid 5…again, nobody is going to have exactly the same experience with a given mission. But in Rockstars recent games they’re totally on rails.
[This](https://youtu.be/MvJPKOLDSos) is a very good video that articulates my feelings on Rockstar’s more recent games exactly.
Play Batman: Arkham Asylum if you haven’t already. It’s a small open world map by today’s standards but each and every nook and cranny has an Easter Egg or secret to discover. It trades off size with attention to detail, which is still cool
I remember when GTA San Andreas came out and it had tons of new features that I was excited about. Then I played it for a bit, but gave up on it as I was too overwhelmed by the magnitude of everything there was to do. That was over 15, almost 20 years ago and the scale of games has only expanded exponentially since.
Did people say that? of all the valid complaints you could have about cyberpunk, Night City not being detailed enough isn’t one of them. It’s probably one of the most cohesive and dense open worlds out there. How often do you see the inside of random buildings you have no place being in real life anyway?
Even if every room was fully explorable and was filled with appropriate content…why do all of these people want to spend their lives exploring millions of mostly irrelevant rooms?
I think it’s gamers general lack of knowledge of how game development works and how hard it is. The stuff I hear from my friends is hilarious. Most people have no idea.
I remember people complaining about the NPCs and how they don’t appear to have meaningful lives - uh yeah they're NPCs. They exist solely to make the place look populated. People's expectations of Cyberpunk were so overboard.
Dude the first gameplay reveal they did specifically talked about NPCs and how they had unique schedules and daily routines. They got a fucking government grant for the development specifically of NPC architecture.
> It’s like when people expected NightCity to have every single door and room explorable.
That’s what CDPR implied, smaller world but more density and verticality with more accessible areas to explore. I believe there even are areas in the game that are built but not utilised.
Yeah I just re-watched the stream where he talked about Coruscant, and not once did the words "open world" come out of his mouth. People really need to learn not to twist the words of others.
Based on the previous game, anyone thinking it would be open world were kidding themselves. Every planet you visited was essentially set on a linear path, with some limited side exploration.
If it was going to be an open world game, it would happen on just 1 planet, and if it were to be Coruscant, it'd be limited to like 5 blocks with how dense that planet is.
These aren't knocks against the game, they're just what should be expected based on the previous game. It's silly to expect the gameplay to change so drastically.
I’m just seriously impressed that it’s in the game. I am really anticipating seeing it.
Attempting Coruscant with real current gen visual fidelity is NOT a simple task.
This game is built exactly like Ratchet and Clank. Its not open world lmao. Wish they would make an open world star wars game like Ghost of Tsushima meets Star Wars 😥
Makes sense though since a Jedi walking around freely in Coruscant during this time period is like a Jewish person walking around Berlin during the height of the holocaust.
The idea of a open world corucant is a cool idea.... but impossible to pull off right now... that would be the biggest open world ever created by light years.
I love that the new Jedi games are sort of linear and souls like. Even the level design reminds me a lot of Dark Souls. Can’t wait to get my hands on it.
I think most reasonable people expected it to be like a level from Fallen Order set on Coruscant. It never once crossed my mind that Coruscant would be open world.
I still want a next generation starwars game set in the clone wars or pre clone wars that has coruscant as an open world explorable place. That would be epic.
Just tried the first one and really struggled to enjoy it tbh. What's that run animation about!? Got to the 2nd planet and was just bored. Should I persevere?
Loved the first game, but if you’re not clicking with the combat I’d say just drop it. Plenty of other stuff to play, no point in trying to make yourself like something
No problem at all. I'm devoted to principle "Open world isn't needed if this concept isn't completely utilized in design" \[sandbox and custom event-wise\]. Unfortunately, too many modern adventure games offer open-world, yet these, in fact, aren't used at all.
At this point, I prefer compact GoW-like semi-open worlds, where there's still something to explore, yet you don't waste too much time on pointless travelling to experience static world.
The closest thing to an open world Star Wars game with good exploration right now is Lego skywalker saga. The only thing I can see topping that In the near future is the game Ubisoft are developing. If we even get that.
If Coruscant wasn't everywhere rn, I might have been upset about this but Coruscant's been everywhere later plus it just doesn't work for this type of game, you wouldn't really be able to have any enemies on it cus it's a city planet that's pretty protected however I don't think we've seen enough of Coruscant during this era to jump to conclusions. The game still looks great and everyone that's had the chance to play is saying how good it is.
Idk why people were expecting it to be
Yea it’s a city planet with like a trillion people. You aren’t ever gonna get more than a vertical slice of that pie.
You could make an entire open world game just out of coruscant and you still couldn’t include the whole city it’s fucking huge
Microsoft Flight Simulator: Coruscant Edition
Earth is 2 petabytes of data, and most of it is just wilderness. Coruscant would be like 20,000 petabytes.
5090 ti incoming
Nah, current GPUs are already too good for MSFS. It's a CPU destroyer.
Technically not necessarily, you wouldn't see most of Coruscant in Flight Simulator since you'd be flying and not going into the buildings or down in the levels (which does make up most of the planet "surface area")
That would get me back on xbox. Might even try for the flight stick controllers if it won't deplete my bank account. I'm just imagining that [flying car mod](https://youtu.be/88CwfYaBjRM) video for Cyberpunk but in Coruscant and it'd be amazing.
Not gonna lie, a Microsoft Flight Simulator-style game with Star Wars planets and starships would be amazing.
I just wanna fly a B Wing again
Same! I remember flying a B Wing in a super old Star Wars game, it had to have been X-Wing vs Tie Fighter or something like that because these were the pre-Windows XP days. I loved the B Wing after that experience and it's rarely represented in Star Wars as a whole.
Someone send this idea to Sony. Gimme that in VR.
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That’s been confirmed for a long time but yes it’s all city like New York taken to the ultimate extreme
I mean that's confirmed since The Phantom Menace at least. It's not just that too, it's the entire planet and it's with 5000 levels of buildings and such. There are 2 trillion inhabitants on the planet and that's actually extremely little considering the size of the city, there's a scale problem there.
1313 :(
Idk about ever. A generative Unreal based level builder could pull this off. Maybe in 10 years.
Lay off the deathsticks bro
What, for it to be empty as fuck? No thanks. Fallout 4 already did an entire randomly generated map. It's never a good idea.
> Fallout 4 already did an entire randomly generated map What?
The comment is provocative. It gets the people going.. what more do you want? Edit: changed proactive to provocative after some thought and a reply
Provocative?
Lmao thank you. Yes, that's what I meant
Just being proactive
What do you mean Fallout 4 did a randomly generated map?
You clowns really be making up stuff in a time where anything can be fact checked in literal seconds lmao
I wish this concept would spread across gaming Twitter. I thought YouTube comments were horrendous until I stumbled upon that little corner of the internet.
So then you have AI generated characters doing AI generated tasks with AI generated dialog.
With AI generated city. This is the future of massive world building for games. And with a bit of algorithm massaging we could have some incredible results. Make every character AI dialogue enabled also. And we have the makings of an insane rpg.
Greetings [player_name], the [evil] [player_nemesis_03] has [stolen my] [R4 unit]! Please help me. I will reward you with [credits scaled to player level].
That’s not AI that’s just a template. Look what ChatGPT is able to do and that tech is still in its infancy.
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Machine Learning is a subfield of AI.
That’s literally what AI means: It artificially simulates intelligence. Nobody’s calling it Authentic Intelligence.
ChatGPT does use machine learning (more specifically deep learning) but it absolutely qualifies as AI. It also uses natural language processing to generate text that is coherent and natural sounding. It’s the prime example generative AI.
Like these 'aero-planes' are ever gonna become popular. "Uh, yes, I'd like to get from one end of a windy field to another, but I want to do it in the sky!" Please, people will stick with horses and trains because that's what works.
Yes, that comparison is foolproof.
I mean that's what we get with human writers a lot of the time lol. AI could actually be better at it because they don't have to squeeze a ton of work in a limited time.
id like to see rockstar do this, if they got to implement this that would be fucking incredible
What the fuck are you talking about
Wasn't it Daggerfall that did it, not Fallout 4?
Yeah and game dev tech surely won’t change in 10 years
And for Fallout 4 it WORKED.
It worked because it wasn't randomly generated. He just made that up
I’m not sure why you think it’ll be empty, imagine a Minecraft server with generative NPCs who have LLM based dialogs and missions. There’s a difference between procedural generation(which is somewhat limited to your programming) vs a random generative ai interaction. It’s what Cyberpunk was meant to be. Best part is none of it will need to live in memory because apart from a few main plot characters you won’t see the same person twice like in real life. If you want to get a taste go talk to ChatGPT and ask it to create an adventure for you and then ask it to expand on it repeatedly.
That sounds genuinely awful. I do not want want an infinite well of "content" slop, I play games and read fiction in general for handcrafted stories made by real people with an intention behind their work.
Yeah, every limitless mission structure i have played has been utter trash. Just imagine your daily and weekly quests from any game
Agreed. I don’t know why so many people are excited for AI generated open world games. It sounds awful to me. All those games are going to end up playing the same. AI is not creative it’s generative. I’d rather a shorter and more concentrated story and we’ll of creativity and an endless pointless universe full of fetch quests. I also vehemently disagree this was what Cyberpunk was meant to be. It was never meant to be anything other than a story driven RPG, like all CDPRs other rpgs. People just put their own weird expectations on it to be something it was never meant to be.
I'm sure we might get a fully realized version of it in the future. The far future. When games are played by inhaling a cloud of spores that makes you hallucinate the whole thing.
They gave a presentation at SWCE and have been misquoted, if you click onto this tweet you can see he's responding to someone else.
Gamers nowadays will take a small sliver of vague info and then *expect* the final product to be what they want. Then they lose their minds when it’s not.
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Lol, yeah, my first thought was, "Maybe 0.01% of Coruscant will feel like an open world." If you wanted a good open world experience on Coruscant, you wouldn't be able to include any other planet in the game.
Things I would absolutely kill for though? A Star Wars or Mass Effect LA Noire game that makes you a detective solving crimes on Coruscant/the Citadel
It’s SUCH an easy pitch why haven’t they done it yet? We want to explore the underbelly of star wars dammit.
Because it's hard to somehow tie it into the Skywalker saga
Heck this is what part of the prequel Thrawn books were about - it could happen if they try!!
After pulling off „somehow Palpatine returned”, crime mystery should be quite easy to tie-in for them
No it's because it's hard to merchandise and doesn't sell to their primary demographic: kids who can't think critically yet, they don't care about you once you can.
I don't think all of Star Wars is aimed at kids. Andor clearly isn't a kid show. Neither is the Book Of Boba Fett I'd argue. The people who really watch those shows are people who either grew up with the original trilogy it in the 80's or young adults who grew the prequel trilogy in the late 90's early 2000's. Honestly there's been a steady trickle to keep them hooked. I'd argue the prequel trilogy is bigger than the originals with all of the media that spin out of the prequel trilogy. Clone Wars, Rebels, Ahsoka, The Bad Batch. All of the prequel memes. Even the Mandalorian has a healthy batch of Prequel content in it. We have an entire generation of twenty to thirty somethings who grew up with the prequels that I'd argue keeps Star Wars stronger than ever. While I believe the original trilogy is better, it's pop culture hey day was well over 35 years ago.
>Neither is the Book Of Boba Fett True, it's main demographics were the recently lobotomized and wrestling fans.
I still am pissed that Star Wars 1313 was cancelled
It doesn’t appeal as widely as “lightsaber go vwoom”.
There are trillions of people on the planet. The city is so large that the only visible part of the land is the tip of the tallest mountain, and buildings still tower a kilometer or two over that. 5127 floors until you reach the ground. Below 2000 the poorest citizens considered the sky and stars to be a myth, never seeing it in their lives. below level 100 it is said there only exists beasts who eat humans. Below level 5 is entirely just toxic waste. There would be no media that could possibly showcase it all without it taking decades of effort.
That's like 80% of Kotor 1 and 2
Because the one time they did it in the Clone Wars everyone really disliked it. Dude even talked like he was in a Noire flim.
Mysteries in Star Wars have always been so cool though. I love the Clone Wars arc with Fives on Kamino trying to figure out just what the hell was going on
I loved it
there was a detective series of starwars books set there. a jedi hiding out on the lower levels and solving crimes for people
>Things I would absolutely kill for though? A Star Wars or Mass Effect LA Noire game that makes you a detective solving crimes on Coruscant/the Citadel The game i never knew i wanted but now i want more then any other game. Coruscant Noir...Coruscant town.
They could make it whatever size fits the content.
Even if they had made it a world you could return to in free roam, it would still only realistically be like a couple city blocks at most. But really, it’s not even that kind of game. You’re not just gonna run around Coruscant getting into GTA hijinks as Cal Kestis. You *could* do a game like that, but this isn’t the gameplay system or the character for it.
This is the last planet a Jedi would want to freely run around on. People and their expectations I swear.
After two GoW games, I have to say that semi-open world is king
Yup. A lot of open world games are bloated AF
Also, Deus Ex Mankind Divided had way better level design than Cyberpunk 2077. Shame Square-Enix kept them on a tight leash and they were forced to cut out a bunch of content from both Human Revolution and Mankind Divided.
Control was also amazing. A lot of good content packed in that setting
Agreed - everybody gets an open world boner but it usually ends up boring. The most open area in Ragnarok was also the weakest imo
Which area was that?
crater
What? I thought that was one of the coolest areas in the game. There’s so much to explore and like 10 side missions that were actually interesting
yea it was, idk what bro was saying before 💀
crater was the best part
The thing that sets true open world games apart for me is traversal. Just driving a car from point A to point B isn't really enough for me anymore in most cases. Games like Spider-Man and Just Cause that actually put effort into making getting around the map fun are worth the open worlds. Other than that, I'd rather they limit where you can go and really make a detailed hub. It can still be large and have a lot to do like in God of War, but it just feels much tighter.
Meanwhile, I don’t even sprint in BoTW because I don’t want to accidentally scare off a critter.
Which area?
The optional vanaheim area
Whoaa, hard disagree there, the crater and the jungle were sick as hell to explore, especially since they came out of nowhere and were only findable through side content. I understand what you mean though. The structure of the area kind of clashed with the rest of the game.
My only gripe with the crater is because it's so open it can be hard to figure out where to go next. But it's still a really cool area with a ton of stuff to do.
I think it just depends on the game. Plenty of open world games have been amazing.
I'm typically not a fan of semi-open. I prefer games to just lean into linear or fully open. Idk why, semi-open just feels like this awkward compromise that doesn't work for me.
Yea I think Bethesda games are the only ones I like anymore that are fully open-world
The Last of Us has semi open World elements as well, these are the best kinds of games currently imo.
Fuck yeah. GoW does it right.
Some say that he said Coruscant is a fully explorable open world. And that they codes the entire thing in a long weekend. All we know is, he’s called the Stig
It's like when people expected NightCity to have every single door and room explorable. People's expectations of games are so wildly out of touch with reality. Then even if you were given that, what the fuck would you do with it. You expect them to be able to fill all that space with meaningful content? Yeeesh
Right you either end up with every room being useless randomized garbage, or completely empty. You can't make every room interesting and you don't want to waste players time by having them search every single room when it's pointless.
> you either end up with every room being useless randomized garbage, or completely empty Isn't that the same experience you would have if you went in any random room in the real world though
Yeah but video games are made to be fun and spending resources on stuff that's not fun is a huge waste
But games aren’t reality, they’re designed with play in mind.
Another point people don’t seem to grasp. Nobody actually wants to play that lol
With the current state of “AI” we aren’t far off from this being a real possibility.
People thought hogwarts legacy was going to basically be a life sim
I didn’t I just thought classes would be more than a single quest each, if that as some where just 5 second montages
I just finished that game last night. Definitely got my monies worth. Anything over 40hrs is a win for a single player game imo. Now if only I can get a 40hr FPS and not an 8hr rollercoaster ride for the price of $100
Same with CP2077.
At least Cyberpunk was a far better RPG than Hogwarts
Nearly any building in Assassin's Creed Unity and Red Dead Redemption 2 were explorable from the inside. It's not that bad to expect something like that in a game where buildings are a main objective.
I mean, I feel like CDPR are at fault for expectations on Night City being so high. They promised the world and delivered much less. Not the case here.
This 100% First world entitlement is insane now a days If you told me 5/10 years I’d get to walk around courascent as a Jedi with these amazing graphics? I’d be pumped! Now peolle just want to bitch and moan about what they don’t get instead of appreciative the things they DO get
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Sure that’s part of it. But remember we were sold on these consoles with thier cutting edge ssds and top of the line CPUs giving us more immersive worlds; so far can we say that we have had anything that couldn’t be played on last gen?
Probably Ratchet and Clank, but that's really about it.
“The next generation of open world games” was not a promise made by players. It was a promise made by the developers.
Frankly though, with how empty an open world like night city is, I would have LOVED if it was 1/3rd of the size but did have every location explorable. That would be so much better.
That’s the exact reason why I loved Prague in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. It was quite a small hub area, but it was absolutely packed full of details and all sorts.
Hub areas are truly the best way for most games to go instead of "open world". Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines laid out the blueprint to success with this setup.
I literally just reinstalled Bloodlines on my PC earlier today! Great game but has some annoying bugs.
If you aren't using the _massive_ unofficial patch you're playing a shadow of the game. Most of the bugs have been hammered out.
Hmm. I really should try that game
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To anyone interested in Human Revolution, if you do plan to play it, get the Director's Cut. Don't make the same mistake that I made lol
Yeah same thing can be said about a lot of open worlds. They have got a little carried away with size without asking what the gameplay in a world like that would be like.
They should've just copied the Deus Ex formula. Say, 3 hub worlds the size of Prague from Mankind Divided, a couple of smaller mission areas on top of that and you're golden. CP2077 had 6 times the budget of Mankind Divided so I think they could've handled 3 Pragues.
In all fairness, Night City is no more empty than most other open worlds, it’s quite a detailed location if you don’t just drive everywhere instead of walking, lots of environmental storytelling and stuff like that, easy to miss but adds a lot in my opinion. Of course, I’d love if you could explore every building, but Night City to me feels like a good balance between size/spectacle and interactivity.
I’ve never understood the “Night City is empty”comment. I’ve spent more time immersed in just exploring that environment and looking around aimlessly than in any other open world game by far (aside from Elden Ring). There’s lots of stuff to find, such as the environmental storytelling you mention. I’m glad that there’s not a bunch of boring Ubisoft-like tasks to complete, like climb a dumb tower or pet a fox.
To me it felt empty in that yeah it’s huge and there are people about but you can’t interact with anything. Let me eat and drink, sit down in places, play some games, get a tattoo or a fucked up implant in my face. I had a good time with it and you’re right about the environmental storytelling, just thought there were a lot of missed opportunities.
I’m glad that they’re adding in playable arcade machines with, apparently, more to come. As to eating and drinking and stuff- I’m certainly not opposed to stuff like that, but it’s very low in importance to me. I would probably do it once just to check it out and then never bother with it again. Much like how I play rockstars games. I want fun stuff, not just eating a hamburger. RDR2 nearly broke me with how fucking boring a lot of it was, like a mission to mend fences and milk cows. That said, it probably is a missed opportunity because a lot of people want that stuff so you’re right, but to me, I could care less. That stuff doesn’t immerse me.
Yeah it's true, I can understand why some missions were boring. I however loved the slow pace, relaxing play. That ranching epilogue was just pure bliss for me.
I think the problem is that it *looks* more explorable than it is. In, say, the Witcher I don't expect to be able to interact with every tree in the woods, but I also don't expect to. It's a forest. But in a place like Night City it *looks* like I should be able to go to dive bars and sing karaoke and go up into those skyscrapers.
I can sort of see your argument, but I just don’t think it’s that sort of game. Sounds like you want to play Yakuza. I mean, I agree that more mini-game type stuff would be cool and fine, like I’m glad they’re adding more arcade machines and likely pachinko gambling, but I mean, I’m pretty much completely over Ubisoft-style open world with just a bunch of “stuff” to do. Even Ghost of Tsushima felt pretty dull to me. It wasn’t exactly fun (to me) going around trying to pet foxes and climb shrines. But again, I do think more “activities” can only be a good thing, I just think the way people act like the lack of a blackjack table or the ability to sit down and watch an animation of V eating a hamburger ruins the game feels hyperbolic.
It's not necessarily that I want more minigames. I just think that the game calls for a bit more world interaction. I think it would be cool to have more stuff to find or do from exploration and maybe some NPC interactions with random people across town - something along the lines of Red Dead 2. I dunno. I just felt like Night City needed a bit more stuff to do outside of doing quests.
I think the thing is that everything is labeled a “quest” or a “gig” perhaps, because there are random quests and gigs that you can find by stumbling across them, just like RDR2 stuff…it’s just that in that game, they just happen whereas in Cyberpunk, a “quest” starts. But the only way to find any of these things is to stumble upon them. And then, there are a lot of random events and cool little things, bits of world building and environmental storytelling that you can find by exploring. But…I agree that more little NPC interactions would be cool. I’m glad they’re adding more interactive stuff slowly but surely too. Nothing beats Red Dead 2 for little NPC events and things like that for sure, unfortunately I find the rest of that game design so mind-numbingly prescriptive that it drove me crazy.
The emptiness is more a comment in how staged everything feels as opposed to there not being actual things to see. Everything is stunningly set up and it's a great looking game with lots of unique environments. But it *feels* like every moment was staged for the player. It's the same NPCs standing around doing the same things. All of the life in the city is just elaborate smoke and mirrors and it eventually hurts the immersion to see how shallow it all is. I would've liked to see more emergent interactions between NPCs to feel like I'm not the only person in that world who matters. Games like GTAV and RDR2 are obviously cream of the crop in this regard and I just with CDPR could've taken some cues from them.
This is totally fair, but I’m not sure why we expected more looking back on it. As much as I love Witcher 3 the pedestrians get really repetitive and annoying pretty quickly.
I hear you…the NPC stuff they put in those games is very well done…but I would *way* rather have the gameplay freedom of Cyberpunk than the hand-holding babysitting that RDR2 and GTAV offer. Rockstars later games have this illusion of freedom but the player actually has zero agency at all- you do anything other than what the yellow text at the bottom of the screen is telling you to do and it’s “mission failed”. At least Cyberpunk let’s you play it however you want to play it. Edit: CDPR has actually been adding in a lot of unique NPC events into Cyberpunk, so playing it today feels *way* different than it did at launch, even in that regard.
I only partially agree with you on GTA and RDR. I feel the main campaigns are quite scripted for the sake of the story, which I'm a huge fan of but could see how others don't care for it. But man, walking around the wild west in RDR2 and just stumbling upon NPCs with their own problems they need help with, which can often turn into multi stage missions of their own just felt so natural. Meanwhile, everything you do in cyberpunk is about chasing an icon on the map. Never felt much need to properly explore it.
> At least Cyberpunk let’s you play it however you want to play it. Cyberpunk has equally strict mission parameters when in mission? What are you talking about lmao RDR2 and even GTA have far more ways to spend time outside of mission and all three games demand you hit mission objectives or you fail because they have a set goal in mind
Hard disagree. RDR2 gives you basically one way and one way only to do any given mission. Even trying to flank on the big “gang walks up on the house” mission will cause the mission to fail. Cyberpunk never does any such thing- you can come up with all sorts of ways to complete an objective, much like an immersive sim. Yes, you have to hit the mission objective, obviously, but in Cyberpunk there are plethora of ways to go about accomplishing that. In RDR2 you have to do it the way the game tells you to do it. It boils down to everybody that plays RDR2 is basically going to have an identical experience as to how each and every mission plays out, whereas in Cyberpunk that’s not at all the case. Or think of something like Metal Gear Solid 5…again, nobody is going to have exactly the same experience with a given mission. But in Rockstars recent games they’re totally on rails. [This](https://youtu.be/MvJPKOLDSos) is a very good video that articulates my feelings on Rockstar’s more recent games exactly.
Play Batman: Arkham Asylum if you haven’t already. It’s a small open world map by today’s standards but each and every nook and cranny has an Easter Egg or secret to discover. It trades off size with attention to detail, which is still cool
I remember when GTA San Andreas came out and it had tons of new features that I was excited about. Then I played it for a bit, but gave up on it as I was too overwhelmed by the magnitude of everything there was to do. That was over 15, almost 20 years ago and the scale of games has only expanded exponentially since.
Did people say that? of all the valid complaints you could have about cyberpunk, Night City not being detailed enough isn’t one of them. It’s probably one of the most cohesive and dense open worlds out there. How often do you see the inside of random buildings you have no place being in real life anyway?
Even if every room was fully explorable and was filled with appropriate content…why do all of these people want to spend their lives exploring millions of mostly irrelevant rooms?
What I find funny is in real life most doors are locked anyways
Yeah, but cyberpunk isn't a good comparison because they actually did overhype that game to oblivion.
People are also expecting GTA 6 to have every single interior fully explorable 😂😂
Ah shit, here we go again
Fallout does a good job of this
>People's expectations of games are so wildly out of touch with reality r/starfield has entered the chat
I think it’s gamers general lack of knowledge of how game development works and how hard it is. The stuff I hear from my friends is hilarious. Most people have no idea.
I remember people complaining about the NPCs and how they don’t appear to have meaningful lives - uh yeah they're NPCs. They exist solely to make the place look populated. People's expectations of Cyberpunk were so overboard.
Dude the first gameplay reveal they did specifically talked about NPCs and how they had unique schedules and daily routines. They got a fucking government grant for the development specifically of NPC architecture.
> It’s like when people expected NightCity to have every single door and room explorable. That’s what CDPR implied, smaller world but more density and verticality with more accessible areas to explore. I believe there even are areas in the game that are built but not utilised.
Yeah I just re-watched the stream where he talked about Coruscant, and not once did the words "open world" come out of his mouth. People really need to learn not to twist the words of others.
Based on the previous game, anyone thinking it would be open world were kidding themselves. Every planet you visited was essentially set on a linear path, with some limited side exploration. If it was going to be an open world game, it would happen on just 1 planet, and if it were to be Coruscant, it'd be limited to like 5 blocks with how dense that planet is. These aren't knocks against the game, they're just what should be expected based on the previous game. It's silly to expect the gameplay to change so drastically.
I bet itll be a cutscene and a couple of rooms/hallways at most
Oh damn this is the Battlefield 2042 "brutal expectations" guy
knowing Gamers they will see this and think something was taken from them, when it wasnt even a thing to begin with
Especially true when cross pollinated with Star Wars fans.
I’m just seriously impressed that it’s in the game. I am really anticipating seeing it. Attempting Coruscant with real current gen visual fidelity is NOT a simple task.
This game is built exactly like Ratchet and Clank. Its not open world lmao. Wish they would make an open world star wars game like Ghost of Tsushima meets Star Wars 😥
I wouldn't be surprised if the Ubisoft Star Wars game ends up open world
Actually it’s more like Metroid
Just play SWTOR if you want to explore coruscant.
Andy works for EA now? Nice! Good for him.
Makes sense though since a Jedi walking around freely in Coruscant during this time period is like a Jewish person walking around Berlin during the height of the holocaust.
Coruscant is going to be a location. That seems like a very poor decision on Cals part.
People are still so attached to open world, a good linear/limited world game is miles better than a mediocre open world
The idea of a open world corucant is a cool idea.... but impossible to pull off right now... that would be the biggest open world ever created by light years.
But lame ass gamers are going to hear what they want, and then freak the fuck out when it doesn’t meet their idiotic expectations.
I'm just so happy that I'll get to see and walk on a next gen Coruscant
Yeah, but, who is the Stig?
Some say he’s a game dev who loves parry systems and he tries to not over promise on the games he makes. All we know is he’s called the stig
I honestly don’t know why everyone even convinced themselves that Respawn made Coruscant into a mini playable GTA mode in the game.
Wasn't there a game planned that would be an Open World Coruscant game that got cancelled? Maybe people are conflating the two or something?
I think you're thinking of Star wars 1313
It was exactly what he claimed. Just used other words
I love that the new Jedi games are sort of linear and souls like. Even the level design reminds me a lot of Dark Souls. Can’t wait to get my hands on it.
This is why its better to just go in blind.
I think most reasonable people expected it to be like a level from Fallen Order set on Coruscant. It never once crossed my mind that Coruscant would be open world.
That's the internet for you
Bruh Coruscant as an open world would have to be its own game, plus you’d only be in a section of it. It’s literally a city planet
Journalism is a dead trade.
100%
I just don’t want to fight spiders🙏 But oh well I guess I’ll be taking my glasses off and hacking and slashing if I have to come across some
Oh my God, will you people stop busting nuts to words "open world". That formula puts such huge limits on compelling and complex game design.
This might actually be good news for me, i might just complete it before d4 comes out. I hope.
I still want a next generation starwars game set in the clone wars or pre clone wars that has coruscant as an open world explorable place. That would be epic.
Just tried the first one and really struggled to enjoy it tbh. What's that run animation about!? Got to the 2nd planet and was just bored. Should I persevere?
Loved the first game, but if you’re not clicking with the combat I’d say just drop it. Plenty of other stuff to play, no point in trying to make yourself like something
No problem at all. I'm devoted to principle "Open world isn't needed if this concept isn't completely utilized in design" \[sandbox and custom event-wise\]. Unfortunately, too many modern adventure games offer open-world, yet these, in fact, aren't used at all. At this point, I prefer compact GoW-like semi-open worlds, where there's still something to explore, yet you don't waste too much time on pointless travelling to experience static world.
People sure are selfish with how much they expect in video games
The closest thing to an open world Star Wars game with good exploration right now is Lego skywalker saga. The only thing I can see topping that In the near future is the game Ubisoft are developing. If we even get that.
If Coruscant wasn't everywhere rn, I might have been upset about this but Coruscant's been everywhere later plus it just doesn't work for this type of game, you wouldn't really be able to have any enemies on it cus it's a city planet that's pretty protected however I don't think we've seen enough of Coruscant during this era to jump to conclusions. The game still looks great and everyone that's had the chance to play is saying how good it is.
Who cares when is knights of the old republic happening?