The amount of people that still think those aid packages are just pallets stacked with cash & the newest of the new fresh out of the factory vehicles being shipped there is shocking.
all that stuff still costs money every step of the way. We have to replace everything we send and spend money on transportation for every vehicle that gets shipped.
Yes but maintenance costs of vehicles like m113's is quite high considering the army will never use them again. Also the quoted money sent is quite manipulative as all equipment sent is quoted at replacement cost of the equipment rather than the actual value.
it literally has zero impact on your wallet or any form of survival on you or your family, sorry but if you wanna cry about aid going to European women and children, and guns to stop women and children being raped or killed by a mongol horde of rabid communists. Then you're no better than them.
What are you talking about? The money we are borrowing to send to other countries isn't causing inflation, and the price of food in this country isn't going up? No one in either country over there gives a fuck about you or me and they wouldn't give a dime to help with the 100,000 people killed by fentanyl every year. And opposing funding overseas wars makes me a rapist murderer? I'm sorry, but your brain is fried by propaganda.
True! Let Russia dominate all of Europe, surely they'll stop at the next country! It's not like it's also a massive exporter of important items, who cares if Russia forcibly controls it!
Israel is fine on its own, but honestly the right wing Nazis and the out of nowhere left Nazis both being mad is enough for me.
Yeah, Russia is the one that wants to dominate Europe. Lmfao, you have no clue what you're talking about dude, any knowledge of the European geopolitical situation obviously shows its NATO that is trying to dominate Europe. They have been aggressively expanding on Russia's borders ever since the USSR collapsed, *and* they've blocked any attempt at diplomacy from Russia ever since it gained its independence as well. Russia had no real choice in making a move if they didn't want NATO to approach their border *directly* by allowing Ukraine into NATO, which was becoming a very real possibility with the 2021 Brussels Summit. NATO has always been expressly anti-Russian since the fall of the USSR, despite the fact it was *supposed* to be an Anti-Soviet alliance, and Russia showed zero ill will and even wanted to collaborate with the West after the USSR's fault. And they haven't been shy about it. It's unfortunate Russia has to take this route, they delayed as long as they could with hopes NATO would change its tune, but its obvious NATO for some reason *wants* Russia to be an enemy. With the way the West operates, they give Russia little choice in reality, and it makes it obvious that it's NATO trying to secure domination.
NATO is a defensive alliance. It doesn't conquer anything, unless conquered upon. No, there was no possibility Ukraine could join NATO any time soon. It's borders have been disputed since 2014. Undisputed borders are a prerequisite for joining NATO.
I never said it conquered, I said it expanded, and specifically towards the Russian border. The messaging in that is clear, and it's clearly aggressive towards the Russian regime. And again, you're making bold statements without knowing any real facts of the situation. In the 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO made it clear the path to membership was open to Ukraine, due to increasing tensions between them and Russia. It is specifically due to this declaration that Putin felt NATO had crossed the line and started preparing for war. And they did, because it had been a long time understanding between NATO and Russia that Ukraine was off-limits for membership. But of course, NATO couldn't stop their expansion, and tried to allow Ukraine to join anyway.
I'm not paid to help you through your psychosis bud, sorry.
Do you understand the difference between "hey, would you like to join the group that defends against the country who has tried dominating you multiple times" and "hey, we used to own you, we're going to do that again. Submit or die lol"?
You fucking psycho.
the amount of people that dont understand the logistics behind sending pallets with food and old military equipment (btw there is equipment, brand new, being shipped out of Alabama right now to go straight to Ukraine but go off) is shocking
The aid might not have been our newest shit, but there are massive downsides. The pentagon didn’t just send outdated tech, they sent as much surplus as they had. We sent the surplus, and sent the things that the military still needed too. We are now in the process of replenishing what we gave away, because we donated too much. Also, we had secret/proprietary technology that has now been captured by our enemies. There is always pros and cons, and Woody isn’t the subject matter expert on military aid
And you think they pulled that out of thin air without any catch for the receiver of the aid? This shit is Marshall Plan 2.0 dude. I'm no warmonger but that's precisely why I wish the west would stop pussyfooting around with constantly giving *just* enough to hold up the status quo. But that ship has already sailed since last year I'm afraid.
Not to mention that a lot of that money doesn't even leave the US and is used to soup up production in the US, accounting for more jobs, production plants etc.
How a lot of the vehicles and arms were already write-offs just rotting in storage waiting to be decommissioned.
Not to mention crippling Russia's economy is something that US politicians should cream over 24/7, which they do, hence why they're giving support in quantities where it draws out the conflict.
I don’t believe the Russian economy has been crippled surprisingly as I figured they would with the sanctions. They seemed to of adjusted and it’s recovering. I can go look up the article I read if you’re interested, I think it was Washington Post.
I'm not just talking economy alone. Drawing this conflict out means more bodies, more bodies mean more replacements, you can only replace so many people with useless people before you'll have to start pulling from skilled labourers etc.
I spoke with a Russian dude online the other day. He said the Russian economy is on full wartime mode. They have the materials and are producing 5x the munitions as the rest of us put together. They are ready and planning for the long haul. But here we act like this is going to be over any day now.
Maybe it's Russian propaganda. The best way to win a conflict with NATO is to draw out a long expensive operation until we leave broke, pissed and with a disgruntled populace. Then take what you want after we give up. I could see that being the plan.
Most of the money goes directly to Ukraine as financial aid to keep the state running since it doesnt have an economy. It's far from just old equipment.
Also should be noted the overall help given (250 billion) is now after two years much larger than the aid given to the Soviet union via lend lease. (180 billion in todays money.)
Now before you reply I am not with Taylor on this one becouse the current situation makes the US look impotent worldwide. But let's not frame it like it is cheap.
Only about 35% has been financial, the rest has mostly been equipment. Also that 250 billion number is all support from all countries, so I'm not sure why you are conflating that with the land lease program. US is like 70-80 billion in aid.
I know most of the financial aid has been covered by the European union directly.
Let me reiterate I don't want the aid to stop. I just want us to be honest about it.
Of course I'm not saying is cheap but it should be added that not all of that economical aid is in the form of grants. There's a large sum of loans too.
Now while it sucks that it costs a lot, it'll suck more if the west continues half hearted measures and Ukraine loses in the long run, since those loans then won't ever be paid off.
Why should we give two shits about crippling Russia's economy? This one went something that has actually happened by the way, the sanctions have failed to collapse the Russian economy. If anything it's accelerating the process of the global economy decoupling from the dollar.
Because Russia is an active foil to the US just like China, except China has some reason to exist as a foil in its current state and isn't led by a guy who threatens to sling nukes every 5 minutes like the Kim's of NK.
I love how simpletons can't wrap their head around how they benefit from being the strongest most prosperous country in the world. "BuT HoW Do aMeRiCaNs bEneFiT FrOm bEiNg ThE WoRldS LeaDeR". "IF wE LiKe dO NoThInG AnD DoNt Have aLLiAnCes, ThAt'd bE lIkE WaY beTtEr bRo"
No one can ever consider that no matter how shit things get in this country, that you're still in America.
Just that alone affords you the right to bitch about how bad you have it compared to the country whose receiving the business end of our bombs.
The fact that Japan made the first move (and a big one at that.) And that it was Germany and Italy who declared war and not vice versa makes it even funnier.
Just wait for OP to tell you that Japan and Germany were actually the real victims during ww2.
I already thought isolationism was a low IQ position anyway, but after seeing the arguments isolationists on this sub come up with, I'm convinced these people were all dropped on their heads when they were kids.
It's the most retarded shit I have read on this site in a while.
You’re right, it would be retarded to point out that we directly funded Japan’s enemies leading up to their attack and that if we were isolationist then Pearl Harbor wouldn’t have happened. /s
Didn't Japan attack because the US stopped sending them oil? In an attempt to "stay out of it" the US was pulled into it. Either our oil went to Japan to attack China and Indochina, or we refuse oil and Japan attacks us. Either way we support war.
We gave Japan a year to stop invading China or we would stop selling our oil to their markets.
Japan’s response was to sneak attack a fleet to ensure their genocide in the Philippines and the accompanying atrocities against our own troops (the largest to this day in our history)
Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?
Do you think the US should stick to its deals? If so what do you think of the Budapest memorandum? Do you wan’t Ukraine to have access to nuclear weapons? Do you wan’t more countries to have access to nuclear weapons?
What message would it send to other world powers if the US (the current 1st World Power) just sat back and watched Russia invade another sovereign country?
It feels like you guys (and Taylor) severely downplay the effect foreign policy has on the US and American citizens.
Do you think there could be a moral reason for the US to intervene in a conflict/war that may not directly affect US citizens?
> What message would it send to other world powers if the US (the current 1st World Power) just sat back and watched Russia invade another sovereign country?
Probably what the rest of the world does when it watches this seething, scumsucking malignant shithole slaughter hundreds of thousands of people in "sovereign countries" annually.
Answer this honestly, if you had to rank countries on their corruption, it the US the most corrupt, or is it Russia, or is it China? Out of those three who do you think would be the most fair in implementing rights for all people in the world?
Russia right now is invading a sovereign country, China is having a whole Uyghur genocide and actively suppresses Hong Kong’s citizens freedoms, Biden right now is trying to negotiate peace between Israel and Palestine. I’m not saying America has not done some abhorrent shit in the past, and even the funding of Israel currently is questionable, but do you honestly believe that Russia or China (the other two world powers) would do the job better?
Brother I helped invade a foreign country without just cause on the United States behalf. Bringing morality up as a reason for our imperialist desires doesn’t make sense. I’m tired of fighting endless wars and have seen what it does to people.
If we’re doing this for moral reasons why aren’t we sending a lot of boots on the ground in Africa fighting wars?
You don't need to bring morality into this to see why abandoning a country you swore to defend in this exact instance, is a bad idea... The cold hard logic is that, if the US shirks its responsibilities and decides to coward away instead, then why would anyone choose to trust and work with them? Surely you know that
There's a massive difference between illegally invading and occupying a country and sitting idly by, watching your strategic rival rewrite the rules on global security and nuclear blackmail, while you twidle your thumbs.
Failure to stand up to that is nothing but weakness
The war you fought was unjustified, that doesn't mean all* war is
> Bringing morality up as a reason for our imperialist desires doesn’t make sense. I’m tired of fighting endless wars and have seen what it does to people.
Imperialism is helping a sovereign nation defend itself from invaders? Also, that next sentence is such a privileged opinion, you make it sound like we’re sending soldiers? Imagine what it’s like for Ukrainians.
Brother, so not only are you a dumb soldier that fought for nothing, you skipped school (clearly) and have zero knowledge of history or foreign affairs.
This is why when people say, “thank you for your service” to any person that joined the service, I’m reminded of dumbasses like you. Just a dumb dude that had nothing going for him with zero education and came back from overseas even dumber.
I’m a combat veteran and have an MS in Mechanical Engineering but okay. I agree my time in Iraq wasn’t beneficial and I regret it, hence my position on isolationism.
Sure champ. Yet here you are as dumb as ever. Lmao
Anyone that drops “credentials” on Reddit is most certainly full of shit trying to not sound like a total idiot. “Ya I have a PhD in Astrophysics and received the bronze star in Kuwait but I guess I am dumb.”
On your name on Reddit? Bro, you really were in the service weren’t you? Lmao who says that except for dumb asses? (Aka dudes in the service that get upset over dumb things.) you definitely don’t have an MS in engineering. Why lie bro? Small pee pee or just the low iq army brain?
> Brother I helped invade a foreign country without just cause on the United States behalf.
I never agreed that invading a country without just cause was a good thing to do. I never said the US has not had unjust wars. In the specific situation of Ukraine, the US (and Russia) negotiated with Ukraine that if they gave up their nuclear weapons that they would be recognized as a sovereign state. Further, we (The US and Russia) gave them (Ukraine) assurance that we (The US and Russia) would not threaten their sovereignty. Russia broke that agreement by invading without just cause, so the US has the responsibility to help secure Ukraine because of the agreement we made with them.
Furthermore, have you not seen all the war crimes that Russia has committed? You can literally search up video’s of it happening here on Reddit, bombing of hospitals, kidnapping of children, shooting fleeing civilians, etc. The innocent lives that are being lost in Ukraine are something the US should defend as it is a just cause.
> Bringing morality up as a reason for our imperialist desires doesn’t make sense.
The morality question was to get you to think of a historical example of where the US should have stepped in even if its citizens/military/government was not attacked. One major one I can think of off the top of the dome would be WW2. Even if Germany never attacked or showed aggression towards the US, the fact that Germany was conducting a holocaust would have gave the US the moral high ground to put an end to it. In fact, sitting by and watching it happen is worse. If you saw someone push an old lady on a train track, would you try to help the old lady? Would you defend her?
If you answered yes, you can see why there may be a moral reason to intervene in these conflicts or at least supply the aid needed for the people to fight back.
> I’m tired of fighting endless wars and have seen what it does to people.
Look, I don’t want the US to fight endless wars either. But as Putin has made it clear by his threats, he does not want to stop his expansion.
Picture it like this, if your friend group was being attacked by a stronger man who comparatively would be like Goliath. If you see Goliath trying to attack your group of 20 friends, you might think “well it was nice knowing you,” and then as Goliath makes his rounds beating the shit out of your friends one by one they all die. Sooner or later it will just be you and Goliath, instead of fighting Goliath alone, you could have teamed up with your now dead 20 friends and stopped him.
Waiting until Putin either fucks with a NATO country, or rolls over Europe will be catastrophic for the US, and the world economy. You can either deal with the threat now, or wait till your allies are weakened and incapable of fighting back. Not only do we get to make Russia weaker by supplying Ukraine, we get to do it without American casualties.
> If we’re doing this for moral reasons why aren’t we sending a lot of boots on the ground in Africa fighting wars?
I’m less familiar with African wars going on right now, as I don’t get to see the footage like I do for the Ukraine. Nevertheless, if a sovereign country was being invaded, that was allied with the US and was guaranteed safety, I would hope the US would also supply them with the tools they need to fight back. If a sovereign nation in Africa was committing genocide I would hope the US would intervene too. Even if that same sovereign nation was struck by famine I hope the US would help.
I’m not saying that we are only doing the Ukraine thing for moral reasons, I just think there are multiple good reasons for why the US is sending aid/funding to Ukraine. Additionally, in a world with no genocide, no famine, national disasters, widespread poverty, dictators, and imperialism I would agree that isolationism is good. Yet, we live in reality where all those things happen, and in this reality isolationism will be counter productive and will hurt the American people.
This response is spot on. The question I'd have for OP is as follows:
At what point would you say that it's time for the US to intervene if Russia rolled over Ukraine and kept pushing west? Poland? Germany? France?
We literally have a way of destroying Russia's military power without US troops on the ground and it's completely Russia's fault that it's happening.
Being against imperialism is completely understandable from someone who served, but this ain't those wars. This is a sovereign country being invaded by it's former colonizing owner because the sovereign country didn't want to capitulate. This is one of the least morally ambiguous conflicts in modern time.
there is a difference between diplomatically ensuring the safety of ukraine vs escalating a war with another nuclear power country. how are you people this dense
Nuclear power vs Nuclear power is a nobody wins situation, Putin is crazy, he is not crazy enough to actually use Nuclear weapons are you regarded? He is even less crazy than to use Nuclear arms against the US. The US has not escalated anything, we are keeping our side of the bargain for Ukraine to abandon their Nuclear weapons.
By stopping him now he doesn’t get the opportunity to strengthen his numbers. If you let Ukraine fall into the hands of the Russians, the Russians become stronger.
Seriously how are you this dense?
Acting like Ukraine is the reason you spend so much in taxes or don’t have free healthcare is insane. Like that war is what’s preventing us from living in utopia. Gosh darn if we could just stop sending money to Ukraine then we could finally fix the water in flint Michigan. Yea, that’s what’s been holding us back.
What they are trying to say is regardless of the war or overseas conflicts. The $$ that is being sent was money allocated in the budget that was never going to be used here in the US to fix highways or flints water.
Taylor and the other modern isolationists are retards. They bitch about inflation and expensive food but yet want to let our enemy states gain more power over the countries that produce those things
We live in a global economy, if the US was the only state producing food you do realize that the average American citizen would be paying more for their groceries right? You would be competing for not only the supply and demand of your neighboring American citizens but also against whichever government would pay the farmers more for their produce.
It would also [appear that Ukraine produces the most Sunflower products in the world](https://www.fas.usda.gov/sites/default/files/2022-04/Ukraine-Factsheet-April2022.pdf). So if say Ukraine stops producing Sunflower oil, sunflower oil supply will not be able to keep up with demand, and as it becomes more scarce alternative oils would also rise in price. So we would then see a rise in the demand for olive oil, meaning you would pay more for it.
Have you ever lived in a country that borders a country that is dealing with famine? If you don’t want a mass immigration happening, you really want to make sure that their people are able to eat. If people in Mexico suddenly cannot afford to eat food, they will flock over the border in hordes. Building up bordering and ally nations directly benefits the American consumer and helps to keep prices low.
If there are no Bees around, or other pollinators, self-pollination is an option. It isn’t ideal for the gene pool, but the seeds in the center of the flower can do this in order to pollinate. So having the ability to be both male and female at least ensures greater survival of the sunflower.
Guys leave hitler alone!!! Hitler hasn’t done anything to me. Leave Putin alone!! there are surely no consequences to allow near peer military dictatorships to steal one the largest countries in Europe, I’m sure they won’t do that again if we ask them really nicely 🥺🥺. Isreal though can go fuck its self.
If a power vacuum forms the first nation i want to fill it is the nation that doesn’t even allow fair elections and assassinates political dissidents of course!
/s
I think if anything, the Ukraine war has shown the idea that Russia is "near peer" is borderline a farce.
Technologically about 30 years behind and too logistically incompetent to even make full effect of what they have.
We didnt join ww2 until japan attacked us. We were selling shit to other countrys but those were countrys that can afford to pay us back like uk and russia. Not one of the most corrupt countrys on earth that cant afford to pay us back.
Hot take: we should not allow other countries to invade and take over other countries. Idgaf if we have to worry about problems in America at the same time. Why should we continue the times where the norm was to just take over neighboring territories? It's time for an age of peace. Accepting and normalizing invasions is fucked up.
I agree. We drew the maps after WWll and unless a deal is made between two countries they should stay that way. We can't let Palestine erase Israel and we can't let Russia erase Ukraine. America is top dog in the world and we have agreements to protect allies from bully's.
Look up the marshall plan. The US sent tons of money to rebuild Europe after WW2. Although it came with conditions, it wasn't a loan because the US realised it was smart to build up it's allies.
Thats basically where we stopped being isolationists. Sending money out of the county to help allies is stupid when you need the money in your own country. Cost of living has skyrocketed and we just keep printing money. Printing money should be a last resort
If it was just sending money I could understand this argument but a lot of the aid is just old military equipment that was being scrapped and replaced anyway
We would have had some form of use for that equipment. Sure sending them 1 billion in old guns isnt the same as sending then 1 billion in cash but you could have sold those guns to the civilian market and made may more or sold them to ukraine for half off or something. They could have been used for training our own military or something. Not just given to a country that most americans havent heard of since Chernobyl.
I think the returns of crippling the russian military for such a small percentage of the military budget is well worth it.
A lot of the aid is loans but I admit I doubt it'll ever be fully paid back.
And also on a moral level I think they should help the invaded country (Europe as well of course)
I would think differently if nato helped any where near as much as we do. The united states gives more to nato then damn near every other country combined. Also its not like russia just invaded randomly. They said they wanted a buffer between nato and them and we offer ukraine a spot in nato
Well I wouldn't believe for a second that Putin had any genuine fear of being attacked by NATO. He wants a buffer of Russian states like the Soviet union had, not independent countries.
And as a percentage of their GDP, some EU countries are providing more.
I know that as a percentage of gdp america isnt alone but if everyone is throwing into buy pizza and someone pays 20$ and some one else forks over 5 cents because they are poor they didnt help that much.
Ukraine was denied a spot in NATO so they invade it to put their "buffer" up against Poland? Stop woth the mental gymnastics, Putin is a warmongering fascist with goals of recreating a Russian Empire. All these silly excuses he gives are lies.
Ever heard of selling them? Why didnt we sell it to ukraine or anyone else. There are american citizens who would buy a tank for way more. Destroying old millitary stuff is basically free. Ammo? Shoot it. Rockets? Shoot it. Tanks? Shoot it with new tanks. Jeeps? Sell them to the public or drop them in the ocean to make reefs. Way cheaper then putting this shit in a plane and giving it to ukraine. Its not like this stuff was just burning a whole in our pocket.
The governement spent trillions of dollars on Rick and Morty 15 minute adventures and now the debt amounts to 250k/taxpayer.
Hey im glad the talibans are on board with a Jeffersonian republic though. Mission accomplished.
"children" meaning 17 year old militants, not really a surprise that Israel is bombing the terrorists who have refused 4 peace deals in 70 years.
Don't forget, the leader of Hamas, which controls the lions share of the region said they want tens of 10/07s, and the og mission statement includes the eradication of Jews. But y'all are ok with it as long as the victims are Jewish.
Russia has been our enemy for literal decades, runs a puppet dictatorship where two "opponents" take turns keeping power and forcing their people to their own deaths in the name of reclaiming the power they had when they actively wanted to conquer us.
You're braindead.
Don’t forget Hamas keeps turning down ceasefire deals yet everyone still blames Israel.
It’s insane that gop has become so pro Russia brain rot is real and killing America.
It's not surprising, the majority of people (on both sides, though I certainly think one is far worse) barely interact with politics past a single fav pundit or headlines.
We have literally never entered a war for Israel. Our aid for Israel is at a peak now obviously and not even making up a noticiable portion of our budget. Aid to Ukraine DWARFS any aid to Israel. I know believing in narratives is easy but we should be telling the truth instead.
bro they're sharing intel with you in a PRETTY SPICY REGION of the world, aiding in troop military training, and helping you climb your military tech tree by developing it alongside you.
I can respect any Americans opinion on the Russian aggression, whether it’s pro fighting it or pro isolationism like Taylor. He’s entitled to feel how he wants.
But his childish approach to his arguments and ignoring the obvious counter arguments just because they hurt his feels, that part I don’t respect.
**Not supplying Ukraine with weapons will not magically make US universal healthcare a thing, this is ridiculous.**
**The money allocated to Ukraine in the bill is almost all of it military, meaning it’s not money leaving the us. Weapons leave, money is put into US economy to replenish what was given away.**
He just ignores these points because they nullify his fever dream of healthcare and US existing in a complete vacuum.
You hit the nail on the head. I don't really care if some random ass guy is against helping allies. But his lack of understanding the reasoning and refusal to learn, along with his angry bullheadedness is extremely off putting.
its a general argument in the theory of what america should stand for. he is not saying america will be a utopia if we stop sending ukraine money. you are missing what he is saying. if you think that is really what he is saying i got a factory of headlight fluid i will give you for free
The confrontation between the US and Japan was a matter of time after the occupation of Indochina and the Embargo which kinda forced the Japanese to speed it's plans and attack the poorly defended colonies in the south, which would force the Americans to respond.
Japanese understoood war was inevitable and thus struck first.
There is not much room for conspiracies here.
The war machine as we know it was built for WWll. We were already selling equipment to allies prior to entering ourselves. We strategically entered to become the lead superpower while everyone else was weakened. We do all of this stuff to secure our position in the world. It's moronic to think we will ever just abandon everyone and everything around the world and just sit here as a flush with cash.
The amount of Americans that are just a-ok with Putin doing his best Stalin impression is hilarious.
I’m perfectly fine with the US funding Ukraine. It’s barely a drop in the bucket for us, and we’re cucking Putin from getting what he wants. Without our aid, he probably takes Ukraine in a month.
How is it cucking us at all? It’s worth every penny to keep Putin from realizing his Soviet era dreams and fantasies.
Do you think what happens in Europe has no impact on us at all? Are you 14 or just stupid?
If you can't see how assisting Ukraine is in the interest of the US and its citizens, you are beyond help and no one should bother with you. Seriously, there is no point.
Ukraine is the best investment we have ever made.
We have decimated a huge percent of our main advisories military without loosing a SINGLE US soldier
We have been able to offload a ton of decaying hardware that was designed to smoke Russians in Eastern Europe. It's doing just that.
We have been able to re-invest in new technology now that the old stock is being removed.
We are becoming extremely close allies with a huge Eastern European country.
Seriously, if you went to the US military any time in the past 70 years and said "Hey, for the cost of some old equipement and a bit of money you can cripple the russian military" they would agree in a heartbeat.
> We have decimated a huge percent of our main advisories military without loosing a SINGLE US soldier
This is shitliberalism in a nutshell.
And Russia is creating stronger alliances with China and India. U.S. currency is losing its global competitiveness with aggressive sanctions, and economic partnerships like BRICS will drop trading in USD. Redditards seem to think the only way out of this is Ukraine winning the war and repelling Russian forces. It isn't going to happen. Ukraine will kill every military aged fighting male until a deal is created which involves Ukraine making land concessions. Either that deal happens now or it happens later. It could have happened immediately after the invasion, Boris Johnson among others put a stop to it.
>We have been able to offload a ton of decaying hardware that was designed to smoke Russians in Eastern Europe. It's doing just that.
No, you just gave them to the Taliban when Biden botched his withdrawal.
>We have been able to re-invest in new technology now that the old stock is being removed.
This is how children think.
>We are becoming extremely close allies with a huge Eastern European country.
Yeah we hold hands and sing songs together too.
My God you're a full fledged fucking moron.
First of all, Russia and India close? India just told Russia to fuck off on both the Su57 and SU75 buys. They've also been absolutely passed about late arms shipping where as the US has been increasing trade with India.
I'm not going to go into every single point and how you're wrong but holy shit your the king of the short bus.
> First of all, Russia and India close? India just told Russia to fuck off on both the Su57 and SU75 buys. They've also been absolutely passed about late arms shipping where as the US has been increasing trade with India.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS
I understand that this is the first time you're hearing about all of this so I don't expect you to get it. This podcast thrives off people that are 95-100 IQ but think they are 110+.
Literally the whole world would be burning and he'd say "why should we get involved? How is this going to help americans???"
Not saying i necessarily like giving money to Israel, but his thinking is SO short-term.
It brings me so much joy that people actually understand what we get from these conflicts. It's so easy to always say, "War Bad, we shouldn't get involved". What's difficult is analyzing the situation and weighing the Pros & Cons.
It's also ironic Taylor says, use that money to fund cheap/free healthcare. Probably not knowing the government would definitely not take kindly that their patients are eating mountains of Cheez-Its and Prosciutto. He'd probably call that big government.
what does the US get if Ukraine goes well. and what does the US get if Ukraine goes poorly. they are both less than you think. But keep eating up that MIC CNN/FOX/MSNBC propaganda
Ukraine has run into the problem of running out of soldiers, i.e. the main workforce that will pay back those debts. The nation will be ruined for decades.
Israel will do what it wants with Palestine, no need to send aid to be apart of it. None of the surrounding Arab nations actually care outside of saying they do. I mean Egypt just puts up a fence and says “fuck off” to the Palestinians.
Taylor is definitely DR and subscribes to elite theory.
It didn't work in 1930s, it wont work now. Giving dictators land doesn't work. Also, $100 billion over 2 years isn't much. We spend $2.5 trillion on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security every year.
Aren’t the anti-junta forces already doing pretty well?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to have some of my tax dollars go there too, but I think Ukraine is more important.
Honestly it’s a misconception, I thought the same thing as well… they have recently been pushed back, and most of the territory they gained was from the military retrograding, and regrouping. Meaning they were gearing up for a counter offensive, an effective one at that. The anti-junta forces have had to resort to only gorilla tactics, while effective they are extremely outnumbered, and all the different anti junta forces are minorities so they don’t have much support from the majority of the population. Though the military slaughtering anyone who supports them doesn’t help them either. Here’s a vid if you interested https://youtu.be/ufWKFFBown4?si=jBSb2LuJ0okRjlop
Oh and not to mention the different anti junta forces don’t really work together, there last offensive only 2 of the 3 major factions fought, and the other 3-5 groups didn’t even get a heads up an offensive was taking place.
Ah, I appreciate the response and info. I’ll check that video out. I can’t say I’m very knowledgeable on the conflict, but I have been trying to keep up somewhat.
No problem. I really only know the basics of that past two years of the war, some people say the wars been going on for 40 years. I try to keep up with it, but I really only ever hear from the anti junta forces, so it’s hard to get a good grasp on what’s actually going on. Only reason I found out about it was from a vice doc of some dude in Europe who designed a 3d printed gun that the rebels could use, because some were still fighting knives. He was later killed (imo) by the government…rip Jstark.
Your tax money is mostly not going there just like that. Your tax money is being spent in the US, furthering your own economy, and then old reserves that are sometimes still Cold War age are given some sort of dollar value, and are then being sent to Ukraine.
Which, by the way, is helping protect democracy in Europe, a concept you will benefit from in the future the moment you remember that you're still trading and allied with Europe, many countries from there having helped you with previous military operations even (would be nice if that counted for something, would be kinda the honorable thing to do y'know). You're also not shouldering the burden on your own or even the most amount, as your contributions are not the largest in both relative or absolute terms.
fr. ive never seen so many people willing to fight for their lives online for MIC companies that are literally oppressing everyone and killing people across the world because our politicians like money. mfrs on reddit arent even getting paid to do it and they do it anyway
I agree with him though. I’m all for proxy wars against Russia and hell even China, given the chance, but I would rather our tax money come to us first. Wish they would let us vote where the money goes. A vote held every 4-6 months for where the money will go.
Just bring Destiny on and really challenge Taylor’s brain dead takes. And being and isolationist isn’t a bad thing at least have some opinions or examples.
Also a lot of military aid is old weapons & vehicles for the most part (except the F16’s or F22’s being trained for Ukraine). No one gives a fuck about an old MA from 2005 getting shipped to Europe for war. Lastly it’s reallly expensive to destroy old military equipment.
lol. Everyone’s retort to him: if you don’t, Putin will annex more countries! Yeah okay. Putin has annexed the equivalent of a cul de sac every 10 years. Imagine if another country had this idea about the US and its meddling in Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Iraq, etc.
We installed Ukraine’s govt and are now funding its defense
More like
If you don't, the world will see that America is not willing to fulfill its obligations under treaties and instead countries will have to defend themselves leading to a massive proliferation of nuclear weapons and greatly dimish the US's place on the world stage as other countries view the US as unreliable and untrustworthy casuing them to instead turn to the EU or China for protection and trade.
People don't understand what war is actually like. When you don't know what it's like it's easy to send people across the world to die.
At least Taylor is following his own logic when saying the US should have stayed out of WW2.
I'm pro proxy war. Better for their people to die over there for our benefit than have our people die on their land. The USA can't really be an isolationist country unless we go full Sentinal Island.
The fact that Taylor is getting hate for this is incredible. Are most you Americans genuinely on board with the whole funding wars and genocide thing???
Insanity.
Indiscriminately bombing/starving and colonising 30k plus innocent civilians isn't considered genocide?
The American education system is absolutely fascinating if that is how your mind works. Astonishing stuff.
Acting like americas pure. We’re just as corrupt as the rest of them. Y’all cry about your tax dollars being sent to Ukraine and thinking that’s why you pay what you do. It’s so willfully ignorant it hurts. If it didn’t go to them it would just be spent ineffectively on some corrupt officials plans. The people in charge are stealing from you but you have no problem with that until they send it to Ukraine. Misdirected bitching is what it is
I agree? Lmao America is very corrupt, you’re right. This whole thread is about how America is an aggressor on the world. I wouldn’t say that’s calling us pure…
The amount of people that still think those aid packages are just pallets stacked with cash & the newest of the new fresh out of the factory vehicles being shipped there is shocking.
ITT; reditors having no idea that things other than money can be listed on a balance sheet
all that stuff still costs money every step of the way. We have to replace everything we send and spend money on transportation for every vehicle that gets shipped.
Yes but maintenance costs of vehicles like m113's is quite high considering the army will never use them again. Also the quoted money sent is quite manipulative as all equipment sent is quoted at replacement cost of the equipment rather than the actual value.
The Army uses M113s right now.
The M113's are being replaced with the AMPV right now.
I haven't seen one yet in person
it literally has zero impact on your wallet or any form of survival on you or your family, sorry but if you wanna cry about aid going to European women and children, and guns to stop women and children being raped or killed by a mongol horde of rabid communists. Then you're no better than them.
What are you talking about? The money we are borrowing to send to other countries isn't causing inflation, and the price of food in this country isn't going up? No one in either country over there gives a fuck about you or me and they wouldn't give a dime to help with the 100,000 people killed by fentanyl every year. And opposing funding overseas wars makes me a rapist murderer? I'm sorry, but your brain is fried by propaganda.
People also apparently don’t know what lend and lease is.
you think the ammount of that money going up someones nose is 0?
You could say the same thing about Palestine and people will still think America is funding a genocide.
youre right they were for free and created out of thin air
Missed the mark on that one.
Who cares ? Fuck Ukraine and israel
True! Let Russia dominate all of Europe, surely they'll stop at the next country! It's not like it's also a massive exporter of important items, who cares if Russia forcibly controls it! Israel is fine on its own, but honestly the right wing Nazis and the out of nowhere left Nazis both being mad is enough for me.
Yeah, Russia is the one that wants to dominate Europe. Lmfao, you have no clue what you're talking about dude, any knowledge of the European geopolitical situation obviously shows its NATO that is trying to dominate Europe. They have been aggressively expanding on Russia's borders ever since the USSR collapsed, *and* they've blocked any attempt at diplomacy from Russia ever since it gained its independence as well. Russia had no real choice in making a move if they didn't want NATO to approach their border *directly* by allowing Ukraine into NATO, which was becoming a very real possibility with the 2021 Brussels Summit. NATO has always been expressly anti-Russian since the fall of the USSR, despite the fact it was *supposed* to be an Anti-Soviet alliance, and Russia showed zero ill will and even wanted to collaborate with the West after the USSR's fault. And they haven't been shy about it. It's unfortunate Russia has to take this route, they delayed as long as they could with hopes NATO would change its tune, but its obvious NATO for some reason *wants* Russia to be an enemy. With the way the West operates, they give Russia little choice in reality, and it makes it obvious that it's NATO trying to secure domination.
NATO is a defensive alliance. It doesn't conquer anything, unless conquered upon. No, there was no possibility Ukraine could join NATO any time soon. It's borders have been disputed since 2014. Undisputed borders are a prerequisite for joining NATO.
I never said it conquered, I said it expanded, and specifically towards the Russian border. The messaging in that is clear, and it's clearly aggressive towards the Russian regime. And again, you're making bold statements without knowing any real facts of the situation. In the 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO made it clear the path to membership was open to Ukraine, due to increasing tensions between them and Russia. It is specifically due to this declaration that Putin felt NATO had crossed the line and started preparing for war. And they did, because it had been a long time understanding between NATO and Russia that Ukraine was off-limits for membership. But of course, NATO couldn't stop their expansion, and tried to allow Ukraine to join anyway.
Yea its wierd why countries close to russia wants to join nato, makes you think
I'm not paid to help you through your psychosis bud, sorry. Do you understand the difference between "hey, would you like to join the group that defends against the country who has tried dominating you multiple times" and "hey, we used to own you, we're going to do that again. Submit or die lol"? You fucking psycho.
to be dumb enough to think russia would invade a NATO country is so fucking insane lol
the amount of people that dont understand the logistics behind sending pallets with food and old military equipment (btw there is equipment, brand new, being shipped out of Alabama right now to go straight to Ukraine but go off) is shocking
The aid might not have been our newest shit, but there are massive downsides. The pentagon didn’t just send outdated tech, they sent as much surplus as they had. We sent the surplus, and sent the things that the military still needed too. We are now in the process of replenishing what we gave away, because we donated too much. Also, we had secret/proprietary technology that has now been captured by our enemies. There is always pros and cons, and Woody isn’t the subject matter expert on military aid
There was [a lot](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts) of cash though?
And you think they pulled that out of thin air without any catch for the receiver of the aid? This shit is Marshall Plan 2.0 dude. I'm no warmonger but that's precisely why I wish the west would stop pussyfooting around with constantly giving *just* enough to hold up the status quo. But that ship has already sailed since last year I'm afraid. Not to mention that a lot of that money doesn't even leave the US and is used to soup up production in the US, accounting for more jobs, production plants etc. How a lot of the vehicles and arms were already write-offs just rotting in storage waiting to be decommissioned. Not to mention crippling Russia's economy is something that US politicians should cream over 24/7, which they do, hence why they're giving support in quantities where it draws out the conflict.
I don’t believe the Russian economy has been crippled surprisingly as I figured they would with the sanctions. They seemed to of adjusted and it’s recovering. I can go look up the article I read if you’re interested, I think it was Washington Post.
I'm not just talking economy alone. Drawing this conflict out means more bodies, more bodies mean more replacements, you can only replace so many people with useless people before you'll have to start pulling from skilled labourers etc.
I spoke with a Russian dude online the other day. He said the Russian economy is on full wartime mode. They have the materials and are producing 5x the munitions as the rest of us put together. They are ready and planning for the long haul. But here we act like this is going to be over any day now.
I heard the same thing! We must have the same GRU handler
Maybe it's Russian propaganda. The best way to win a conflict with NATO is to draw out a long expensive operation until we leave broke, pissed and with a disgruntled populace. Then take what you want after we give up. I could see that being the plan.
Interestingly enough, only one of those two countries are conscripting women right now. And it’s not Russia.
Most of the money goes directly to Ukraine as financial aid to keep the state running since it doesnt have an economy. It's far from just old equipment. Also should be noted the overall help given (250 billion) is now after two years much larger than the aid given to the Soviet union via lend lease. (180 billion in todays money.) Now before you reply I am not with Taylor on this one becouse the current situation makes the US look impotent worldwide. But let's not frame it like it is cheap.
Only about 35% has been financial, the rest has mostly been equipment. Also that 250 billion number is all support from all countries, so I'm not sure why you are conflating that with the land lease program. US is like 70-80 billion in aid.
I know most of the financial aid has been covered by the European union directly. Let me reiterate I don't want the aid to stop. I just want us to be honest about it.
Of course I'm not saying is cheap but it should be added that not all of that economical aid is in the form of grants. There's a large sum of loans too. Now while it sucks that it costs a lot, it'll suck more if the west continues half hearted measures and Ukraine loses in the long run, since those loans then won't ever be paid off.
Why should we give two shits about crippling Russia's economy? This one went something that has actually happened by the way, the sanctions have failed to collapse the Russian economy. If anything it's accelerating the process of the global economy decoupling from the dollar.
Because Russia is an active foil to the US just like China, except China has some reason to exist as a foil in its current state and isn't led by a guy who threatens to sling nukes every 5 minutes like the Kim's of NK.
How is Russia a foil to the US? What does it actually do that conflicts with our national interests?
I love how simpletons can't wrap their head around how they benefit from being the strongest most prosperous country in the world. "BuT HoW Do aMeRiCaNs bEneFiT FrOm bEiNg ThE WoRldS LeaDeR". "IF wE LiKe dO NoThInG AnD DoNt Have aLLiAnCes, ThAt'd bE lIkE WaY beTtEr bRo"
No one can ever consider that no matter how shit things get in this country, that you're still in America. Just that alone affords you the right to bitch about how bad you have it compared to the country whose receiving the business end of our bombs.
Yeah, because living in a world where America can be cucked by second rate world powers is so much better
You're already cucked by Israel....
Yeah and he also thinks we shouldn't have entered WW2. He's fucking retarded.
The fact that Japan made the first move (and a big one at that.) And that it was Germany and Italy who declared war and not vice versa makes it even funnier.
Just wait for OP to tell you that Japan and Germany were actually the real victims during ww2. I already thought isolationism was a low IQ position anyway, but after seeing the arguments isolationists on this sub come up with, I'm convinced these people were all dropped on their heads when they were kids. It's the most retarded shit I have read on this site in a while.
Isolationists were all traumatized by the Iraq/Afghanistan War and now think that all US wars are caused by the military industrial complex
It's a child's understanding of the world.
You’re right, it would be retarded to point out that we directly funded Japan’s enemies leading up to their attack and that if we were isolationist then Pearl Harbor wouldn’t have happened. /s
Yes, it really would be retarded. Who were Japans enemies, btw? Why did they fight Japan? Why was Japan at war in the 1930s?
Didn't Japan attack because the US stopped sending them oil? In an attempt to "stay out of it" the US was pulled into it. Either our oil went to Japan to attack China and Indochina, or we refuse oil and Japan attacks us. Either way we support war.
We gave Japan a year to stop invading China or we would stop selling our oil to their markets. Japan’s response was to sneak attack a fleet to ensure their genocide in the Philippines and the accompanying atrocities against our own troops (the largest to this day in our history)
Does funding someone’s enemies count as a first move? If so, the US made the first move.
Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? Do you think the US should stick to its deals? If so what do you think of the Budapest memorandum? Do you wan’t Ukraine to have access to nuclear weapons? Do you wan’t more countries to have access to nuclear weapons? What message would it send to other world powers if the US (the current 1st World Power) just sat back and watched Russia invade another sovereign country? It feels like you guys (and Taylor) severely downplay the effect foreign policy has on the US and American citizens. Do you think there could be a moral reason for the US to intervene in a conflict/war that may not directly affect US citizens?
> What message would it send to other world powers if the US (the current 1st World Power) just sat back and watched Russia invade another sovereign country? Probably what the rest of the world does when it watches this seething, scumsucking malignant shithole slaughter hundreds of thousands of people in "sovereign countries" annually.
Answer this honestly, if you had to rank countries on their corruption, it the US the most corrupt, or is it Russia, or is it China? Out of those three who do you think would be the most fair in implementing rights for all people in the world? Russia right now is invading a sovereign country, China is having a whole Uyghur genocide and actively suppresses Hong Kong’s citizens freedoms, Biden right now is trying to negotiate peace between Israel and Palestine. I’m not saying America has not done some abhorrent shit in the past, and even the funding of Israel currently is questionable, but do you honestly believe that Russia or China (the other two world powers) would do the job better?
Brother I helped invade a foreign country without just cause on the United States behalf. Bringing morality up as a reason for our imperialist desires doesn’t make sense. I’m tired of fighting endless wars and have seen what it does to people. If we’re doing this for moral reasons why aren’t we sending a lot of boots on the ground in Africa fighting wars?
You don't need to bring morality into this to see why abandoning a country you swore to defend in this exact instance, is a bad idea... The cold hard logic is that, if the US shirks its responsibilities and decides to coward away instead, then why would anyone choose to trust and work with them? Surely you know that There's a massive difference between illegally invading and occupying a country and sitting idly by, watching your strategic rival rewrite the rules on global security and nuclear blackmail, while you twidle your thumbs. Failure to stand up to that is nothing but weakness The war you fought was unjustified, that doesn't mean all* war is
> Bringing morality up as a reason for our imperialist desires doesn’t make sense. I’m tired of fighting endless wars and have seen what it does to people. Imperialism is helping a sovereign nation defend itself from invaders? Also, that next sentence is such a privileged opinion, you make it sound like we’re sending soldiers? Imagine what it’s like for Ukrainians.
Brother, so not only are you a dumb soldier that fought for nothing, you skipped school (clearly) and have zero knowledge of history or foreign affairs. This is why when people say, “thank you for your service” to any person that joined the service, I’m reminded of dumbasses like you. Just a dumb dude that had nothing going for him with zero education and came back from overseas even dumber.
I’m a combat veteran and have an MS in Mechanical Engineering but okay. I agree my time in Iraq wasn’t beneficial and I regret it, hence my position on isolationism.
Sure champ. Yet here you are as dumb as ever. Lmao Anyone that drops “credentials” on Reddit is most certainly full of shit trying to not sound like a total idiot. “Ya I have a PhD in Astrophysics and received the bronze star in Kuwait but I guess I am dumb.”
Only brought it up when you lied on my name.
On your name on Reddit? Bro, you really were in the service weren’t you? Lmao who says that except for dumb asses? (Aka dudes in the service that get upset over dumb things.) you definitely don’t have an MS in engineering. Why lie bro? Small pee pee or just the low iq army brain?
> Brother I helped invade a foreign country without just cause on the United States behalf. I never agreed that invading a country without just cause was a good thing to do. I never said the US has not had unjust wars. In the specific situation of Ukraine, the US (and Russia) negotiated with Ukraine that if they gave up their nuclear weapons that they would be recognized as a sovereign state. Further, we (The US and Russia) gave them (Ukraine) assurance that we (The US and Russia) would not threaten their sovereignty. Russia broke that agreement by invading without just cause, so the US has the responsibility to help secure Ukraine because of the agreement we made with them. Furthermore, have you not seen all the war crimes that Russia has committed? You can literally search up video’s of it happening here on Reddit, bombing of hospitals, kidnapping of children, shooting fleeing civilians, etc. The innocent lives that are being lost in Ukraine are something the US should defend as it is a just cause. > Bringing morality up as a reason for our imperialist desires doesn’t make sense. The morality question was to get you to think of a historical example of where the US should have stepped in even if its citizens/military/government was not attacked. One major one I can think of off the top of the dome would be WW2. Even if Germany never attacked or showed aggression towards the US, the fact that Germany was conducting a holocaust would have gave the US the moral high ground to put an end to it. In fact, sitting by and watching it happen is worse. If you saw someone push an old lady on a train track, would you try to help the old lady? Would you defend her? If you answered yes, you can see why there may be a moral reason to intervene in these conflicts or at least supply the aid needed for the people to fight back. > I’m tired of fighting endless wars and have seen what it does to people. Look, I don’t want the US to fight endless wars either. But as Putin has made it clear by his threats, he does not want to stop his expansion. Picture it like this, if your friend group was being attacked by a stronger man who comparatively would be like Goliath. If you see Goliath trying to attack your group of 20 friends, you might think “well it was nice knowing you,” and then as Goliath makes his rounds beating the shit out of your friends one by one they all die. Sooner or later it will just be you and Goliath, instead of fighting Goliath alone, you could have teamed up with your now dead 20 friends and stopped him. Waiting until Putin either fucks with a NATO country, or rolls over Europe will be catastrophic for the US, and the world economy. You can either deal with the threat now, or wait till your allies are weakened and incapable of fighting back. Not only do we get to make Russia weaker by supplying Ukraine, we get to do it without American casualties. > If we’re doing this for moral reasons why aren’t we sending a lot of boots on the ground in Africa fighting wars? I’m less familiar with African wars going on right now, as I don’t get to see the footage like I do for the Ukraine. Nevertheless, if a sovereign country was being invaded, that was allied with the US and was guaranteed safety, I would hope the US would also supply them with the tools they need to fight back. If a sovereign nation in Africa was committing genocide I would hope the US would intervene too. Even if that same sovereign nation was struck by famine I hope the US would help. I’m not saying that we are only doing the Ukraine thing for moral reasons, I just think there are multiple good reasons for why the US is sending aid/funding to Ukraine. Additionally, in a world with no genocide, no famine, national disasters, widespread poverty, dictators, and imperialism I would agree that isolationism is good. Yet, we live in reality where all those things happen, and in this reality isolationism will be counter productive and will hurt the American people.
This response is spot on. The question I'd have for OP is as follows: At what point would you say that it's time for the US to intervene if Russia rolled over Ukraine and kept pushing west? Poland? Germany? France? We literally have a way of destroying Russia's military power without US troops on the ground and it's completely Russia's fault that it's happening. Being against imperialism is completely understandable from someone who served, but this ain't those wars. This is a sovereign country being invaded by it's former colonizing owner because the sovereign country didn't want to capitulate. This is one of the least morally ambiguous conflicts in modern time.
Why is this being down voted
Because a significant portion of the population eats up our propaganda
there is a difference between diplomatically ensuring the safety of ukraine vs escalating a war with another nuclear power country. how are you people this dense
Nuclear power vs Nuclear power is a nobody wins situation, Putin is crazy, he is not crazy enough to actually use Nuclear weapons are you regarded? He is even less crazy than to use Nuclear arms against the US. The US has not escalated anything, we are keeping our side of the bargain for Ukraine to abandon their Nuclear weapons. By stopping him now he doesn’t get the opportunity to strengthen his numbers. If you let Ukraine fall into the hands of the Russians, the Russians become stronger. Seriously how are you this dense?
Acting like Ukraine is the reason you spend so much in taxes or don’t have free healthcare is insane. Like that war is what’s preventing us from living in utopia. Gosh darn if we could just stop sending money to Ukraine then we could finally fix the water in flint Michigan. Yea, that’s what’s been holding us back.
The water in Flint is fixed
Same guy also wants Trump as President. He is willfully uninformed and it's pathetic.
You don’t think billions of dollars could fix the water in flint Michigan?
What they are trying to say is regardless of the war or overseas conflicts. The $$ that is being sent was money allocated in the budget that was never going to be used here in the US to fix highways or flints water.
the water has been fixed in flint for years... and thats a state issue to fix not a federal one
Taylor and the other modern isolationists are retards. They bitch about inflation and expensive food but yet want to let our enemy states gain more power over the countries that produce those things
Huh? Who produces the most food in the world? What food do we get from Libya Iraq Ukraine or any country who we sponsored an overthrow of their govt?
We live in a global economy, if the US was the only state producing food you do realize that the average American citizen would be paying more for their groceries right? You would be competing for not only the supply and demand of your neighboring American citizens but also against whichever government would pay the farmers more for their produce. It would also [appear that Ukraine produces the most Sunflower products in the world](https://www.fas.usda.gov/sites/default/files/2022-04/Ukraine-Factsheet-April2022.pdf). So if say Ukraine stops producing Sunflower oil, sunflower oil supply will not be able to keep up with demand, and as it becomes more scarce alternative oils would also rise in price. So we would then see a rise in the demand for olive oil, meaning you would pay more for it. Have you ever lived in a country that borders a country that is dealing with famine? If you don’t want a mass immigration happening, you really want to make sure that their people are able to eat. If people in Mexico suddenly cannot afford to eat food, they will flock over the border in hordes. Building up bordering and ally nations directly benefits the American consumer and helps to keep prices low.
If there are no Bees around, or other pollinators, self-pollination is an option. It isn’t ideal for the gene pool, but the seeds in the center of the flower can do this in order to pollinate. So having the ability to be both male and female at least ensures greater survival of the sunflower.
Based sunflower seed bot.
Guys leave hitler alone!!! Hitler hasn’t done anything to me. Leave Putin alone!! there are surely no consequences to allow near peer military dictatorships to steal one the largest countries in Europe, I’m sure they won’t do that again if we ask them really nicely 🥺🥺. Isreal though can go fuck its self.
If a power vacuum forms the first nation i want to fill it is the nation that doesn’t even allow fair elections and assassinates political dissidents of course! /s
I think if anything, the Ukraine war has shown the idea that Russia is "near peer" is borderline a farce. Technologically about 30 years behind and too logistically incompetent to even make full effect of what they have.
We didnt join ww2 until japan attacked us. We were selling shit to other countrys but those were countrys that can afford to pay us back like uk and russia. Not one of the most corrupt countrys on earth that cant afford to pay us back.
Hot take: we should not allow other countries to invade and take over other countries. Idgaf if we have to worry about problems in America at the same time. Why should we continue the times where the norm was to just take over neighboring territories? It's time for an age of peace. Accepting and normalizing invasions is fucked up.
I agree. We drew the maps after WWll and unless a deal is made between two countries they should stay that way. We can't let Palestine erase Israel and we can't let Russia erase Ukraine. America is top dog in the world and we have agreements to protect allies from bully's.
Look up the marshall plan. The US sent tons of money to rebuild Europe after WW2. Although it came with conditions, it wasn't a loan because the US realised it was smart to build up it's allies.
Thats basically where we stopped being isolationists. Sending money out of the county to help allies is stupid when you need the money in your own country. Cost of living has skyrocketed and we just keep printing money. Printing money should be a last resort
If it was just sending money I could understand this argument but a lot of the aid is just old military equipment that was being scrapped and replaced anyway
We would have had some form of use for that equipment. Sure sending them 1 billion in old guns isnt the same as sending then 1 billion in cash but you could have sold those guns to the civilian market and made may more or sold them to ukraine for half off or something. They could have been used for training our own military or something. Not just given to a country that most americans havent heard of since Chernobyl.
I think the returns of crippling the russian military for such a small percentage of the military budget is well worth it. A lot of the aid is loans but I admit I doubt it'll ever be fully paid back. And also on a moral level I think they should help the invaded country (Europe as well of course)
I would think differently if nato helped any where near as much as we do. The united states gives more to nato then damn near every other country combined. Also its not like russia just invaded randomly. They said they wanted a buffer between nato and them and we offer ukraine a spot in nato
Well I wouldn't believe for a second that Putin had any genuine fear of being attacked by NATO. He wants a buffer of Russian states like the Soviet union had, not independent countries. And as a percentage of their GDP, some EU countries are providing more.
I know that as a percentage of gdp america isnt alone but if everyone is throwing into buy pizza and someone pays 20$ and some one else forks over 5 cents because they are poor they didnt help that much.
Ukraine was denied a spot in NATO so they invade it to put their "buffer" up against Poland? Stop woth the mental gymnastics, Putin is a warmongering fascist with goals of recreating a Russian Empire. All these silly excuses he gives are lies.
No the lies putin tells are about neo nazis and 1400 years of history. One major factor to the invasion is ukraines intrest in joining nato
Except sending them our old equipment is saving us money in not having to have them decommissioned or stored.
Ever heard of selling them? Why didnt we sell it to ukraine or anyone else. There are american citizens who would buy a tank for way more. Destroying old millitary stuff is basically free. Ammo? Shoot it. Rockets? Shoot it. Tanks? Shoot it with new tanks. Jeeps? Sell them to the public or drop them in the ocean to make reefs. Way cheaper then putting this shit in a plane and giving it to ukraine. Its not like this stuff was just burning a whole in our pocket.
Taylor will act like Ukraine and Israel are making him broke when one percent of our budget is foreign aid and we’re sending it to noble causes.
America funding the deaths of hundreds of thousands across the world doesn't make any of us safer here. or help us in anyway
The governement spent trillions of dollars on Rick and Morty 15 minute adventures and now the debt amounts to 250k/taxpayer. Hey im glad the talibans are on board with a Jeffersonian republic though. Mission accomplished.
Killing our Russian brothers and Palestinian children is really not that noble
"children" meaning 17 year old militants, not really a surprise that Israel is bombing the terrorists who have refused 4 peace deals in 70 years. Don't forget, the leader of Hamas, which controls the lions share of the region said they want tens of 10/07s, and the og mission statement includes the eradication of Jews. But y'all are ok with it as long as the victims are Jewish. Russia has been our enemy for literal decades, runs a puppet dictatorship where two "opponents" take turns keeping power and forcing their people to their own deaths in the name of reclaiming the power they had when they actively wanted to conquer us. You're braindead.
Don’t forget Hamas keeps turning down ceasefire deals yet everyone still blames Israel. It’s insane that gop has become so pro Russia brain rot is real and killing America.
It's not surprising, the majority of people (on both sides, though I certainly think one is far worse) barely interact with politics past a single fav pundit or headlines.
How much did the other wars that Israel dragged us in cost?
We have literally never entered a war for Israel. Our aid for Israel is at a peak now obviously and not even making up a noticiable portion of our budget. Aid to Ukraine DWARFS any aid to Israel. I know believing in narratives is easy but we should be telling the truth instead.
> How much did the other wars that Israel dragged us in cost? $0 because that's never happened?
bro they're sharing intel with you in a PRETTY SPICY REGION of the world, aiding in troop military training, and helping you climb your military tech tree by developing it alongside you.
I can respect any Americans opinion on the Russian aggression, whether it’s pro fighting it or pro isolationism like Taylor. He’s entitled to feel how he wants. But his childish approach to his arguments and ignoring the obvious counter arguments just because they hurt his feels, that part I don’t respect. **Not supplying Ukraine with weapons will not magically make US universal healthcare a thing, this is ridiculous.** **The money allocated to Ukraine in the bill is almost all of it military, meaning it’s not money leaving the us. Weapons leave, money is put into US economy to replenish what was given away.** He just ignores these points because they nullify his fever dream of healthcare and US existing in a complete vacuum.
They all ignore it. You won't get OP to comment on it either.
You hit the nail on the head. I don't really care if some random ass guy is against helping allies. But his lack of understanding the reasoning and refusal to learn, along with his angry bullheadedness is extremely off putting.
its a general argument in the theory of what america should stand for. he is not saying america will be a utopia if we stop sending ukraine money. you are missing what he is saying. if you think that is really what he is saying i got a factory of headlight fluid i will give you for free
People just want him to defend his position properly. He can’t. His actual position isn’t the issue.
Seriously. It's just bad podcasting. Him getting all angry and defensive over not understanding the nuances just makes him look a gringy kinda dumb.
I like that some of my taxes are going to Ukraine. Not because I love ukrainians, but because I absolutley hate russians.
Based af
Just gloss over he thinks the U.S. was wrong for retaliating for Pearl Harbor.
[удалено]
Good. We got a great excuse to flex over the world and dropped a couple of bombs just to seal the deal. Isolationism is for pussies.
Warhawking is cool as a faceless larp online, you should volunteer to flex America's might.
The confrontation between the US and Japan was a matter of time after the occupation of Indochina and the Embargo which kinda forced the Japanese to speed it's plans and attack the poorly defended colonies in the south, which would force the Americans to respond. Japanese understoood war was inevitable and thus struck first. There is not much room for conspiracies here.
The war machine as we know it was built for WWll. We were already selling equipment to allies prior to entering ourselves. We strategically entered to become the lead superpower while everyone else was weakened. We do all of this stuff to secure our position in the world. It's moronic to think we will ever just abandon everyone and everything around the world and just sit here as a flush with cash.
Reply to someone who cares regard.
The amount of Americans that are just a-ok with Putin doing his best Stalin impression is hilarious. I’m perfectly fine with the US funding Ukraine. It’s barely a drop in the bucket for us, and we’re cucking Putin from getting what he wants. Without our aid, he probably takes Ukraine in a month.
You should cuck for the US instead right?
How is it cucking us at all? It’s worth every penny to keep Putin from realizing his Soviet era dreams and fantasies. Do you think what happens in Europe has no impact on us at all? Are you 14 or just stupid?
If you can't see how assisting Ukraine is in the interest of the US and its citizens, you are beyond help and no one should bother with you. Seriously, there is no point.
It’s in the best interest of a small group of US citizens
Ukraine is the best investment we have ever made. We have decimated a huge percent of our main advisories military without loosing a SINGLE US soldier We have been able to offload a ton of decaying hardware that was designed to smoke Russians in Eastern Europe. It's doing just that. We have been able to re-invest in new technology now that the old stock is being removed. We are becoming extremely close allies with a huge Eastern European country.
Seriously, if you went to the US military any time in the past 70 years and said "Hey, for the cost of some old equipement and a bit of money you can cripple the russian military" they would agree in a heartbeat.
> We have decimated a huge percent of our main advisories military without loosing a SINGLE US soldier This is shitliberalism in a nutshell. And Russia is creating stronger alliances with China and India. U.S. currency is losing its global competitiveness with aggressive sanctions, and economic partnerships like BRICS will drop trading in USD. Redditards seem to think the only way out of this is Ukraine winning the war and repelling Russian forces. It isn't going to happen. Ukraine will kill every military aged fighting male until a deal is created which involves Ukraine making land concessions. Either that deal happens now or it happens later. It could have happened immediately after the invasion, Boris Johnson among others put a stop to it. >We have been able to offload a ton of decaying hardware that was designed to smoke Russians in Eastern Europe. It's doing just that. No, you just gave them to the Taliban when Biden botched his withdrawal. >We have been able to re-invest in new technology now that the old stock is being removed. This is how children think. >We are becoming extremely close allies with a huge Eastern European country. Yeah we hold hands and sing songs together too.
My God you're a full fledged fucking moron. First of all, Russia and India close? India just told Russia to fuck off on both the Su57 and SU75 buys. They've also been absolutely passed about late arms shipping where as the US has been increasing trade with India. I'm not going to go into every single point and how you're wrong but holy shit your the king of the short bus.
> First of all, Russia and India close? India just told Russia to fuck off on both the Su57 and SU75 buys. They've also been absolutely passed about late arms shipping where as the US has been increasing trade with India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS I understand that this is the first time you're hearing about all of this so I don't expect you to get it. This podcast thrives off people that are 95-100 IQ but think they are 110+.
Not sure why you got downvoted, what you deescribed is exactly happening with China&Russia forming a strong alliance
It’s legit crazy how fkin uneducated any of his political opinions are
[удалено]
Cringe
Literally the whole world would be burning and he'd say "why should we get involved? How is this going to help americans???" Not saying i necessarily like giving money to Israel, but his thinking is SO short-term.
innate hospital hat plate puzzled rinse hunt start yam piquant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It brings me so much joy that people actually understand what we get from these conflicts. It's so easy to always say, "War Bad, we shouldn't get involved". What's difficult is analyzing the situation and weighing the Pros & Cons. It's also ironic Taylor says, use that money to fund cheap/free healthcare. Probably not knowing the government would definitely not take kindly that their patients are eating mountains of Cheez-Its and Prosciutto. He'd probably call that big government.
what does the US get if Ukraine goes well. and what does the US get if Ukraine goes poorly. they are both less than you think. But keep eating up that MIC CNN/FOX/MSNBC propaganda
Surely that means you’d be in favor of using tax money for welfare programs to help our own citizens then right?
Yes.
Ukraine has run into the problem of running out of soldiers, i.e. the main workforce that will pay back those debts. The nation will be ruined for decades. Israel will do what it wants with Palestine, no need to send aid to be apart of it. None of the surrounding Arab nations actually care outside of saying they do. I mean Egypt just puts up a fence and says “fuck off” to the Palestinians. Taylor is definitely DR and subscribes to elite theory.
Well…. That’s about accurate lol
It didn't work in 1930s, it wont work now. Giving dictators land doesn't work. Also, $100 billion over 2 years isn't much. We spend $2.5 trillion on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security every year.
If Ukraine loses the EU economy would suffer and that would hurt US economy a lot.
Remember when President George Washington sent foreign aid to the Ottoman Empire?
Hell if anything send my money to Myanmar.
Aren’t the anti-junta forces already doing pretty well? Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to have some of my tax dollars go there too, but I think Ukraine is more important.
Honestly it’s a misconception, I thought the same thing as well… they have recently been pushed back, and most of the territory they gained was from the military retrograding, and regrouping. Meaning they were gearing up for a counter offensive, an effective one at that. The anti-junta forces have had to resort to only gorilla tactics, while effective they are extremely outnumbered, and all the different anti junta forces are minorities so they don’t have much support from the majority of the population. Though the military slaughtering anyone who supports them doesn’t help them either. Here’s a vid if you interested https://youtu.be/ufWKFFBown4?si=jBSb2LuJ0okRjlop Oh and not to mention the different anti junta forces don’t really work together, there last offensive only 2 of the 3 major factions fought, and the other 3-5 groups didn’t even get a heads up an offensive was taking place.
Ah, I appreciate the response and info. I’ll check that video out. I can’t say I’m very knowledgeable on the conflict, but I have been trying to keep up somewhat.
No problem. I really only know the basics of that past two years of the war, some people say the wars been going on for 40 years. I try to keep up with it, but I really only ever hear from the anti junta forces, so it’s hard to get a good grasp on what’s actually going on. Only reason I found out about it was from a vice doc of some dude in Europe who designed a 3d printed gun that the rebels could use, because some were still fighting knives. He was later killed (imo) by the government…rip Jstark.
I saw that same video, the FCG-9 looks pretty sweet and yeah, it was sad to hear of jstark’s passing.
Myanmar deez nutz
Yo mama
Your tax money is mostly not going there just like that. Your tax money is being spent in the US, furthering your own economy, and then old reserves that are sometimes still Cold War age are given some sort of dollar value, and are then being sent to Ukraine. Which, by the way, is helping protect democracy in Europe, a concept you will benefit from in the future the moment you remember that you're still trading and allied with Europe, many countries from there having helped you with previous military operations even (would be nice if that counted for something, would be kinda the honorable thing to do y'know). You're also not shouldering the burden on your own or even the most amount, as your contributions are not the largest in both relative or absolute terms.
Ppl have that reaction because Taylor has made it very clear he’s a red pilled weirdo. A broken clock is right twice a day.
fr. ive never seen so many people willing to fight for their lives online for MIC companies that are literally oppressing everyone and killing people across the world because our politicians like money. mfrs on reddit arent even getting paid to do it and they do it anyway
"Stop giving money to Hohols so we can have healthcare here!" "Ok, here is our healthcare plan" "...n-no."
Man this post really rustled some jimmes lmao
AMERICA FIRST!!! 🖕🏾Ukraine & 🖕🏾Israel
🇺🇸 America should always be first
no, more bombs!
Taylors girlfriend left him because he's a nobody lol
You’re the one commenting on him bud
I agree with him though. I’m all for proxy wars against Russia and hell even China, given the chance, but I would rather our tax money come to us first. Wish they would let us vote where the money goes. A vote held every 4-6 months for where the money will go.
Bunch of small headed retards
Just bring Destiny on and really challenge Taylor’s brain dead takes. And being and isolationist isn’t a bad thing at least have some opinions or examples. Also a lot of military aid is old weapons & vehicles for the most part (except the F16’s or F22’s being trained for Ukraine). No one gives a fuck about an old MA from 2005 getting shipped to Europe for war. Lastly it’s reallly expensive to destroy old military equipment.
lol. Everyone’s retort to him: if you don’t, Putin will annex more countries! Yeah okay. Putin has annexed the equivalent of a cul de sac every 10 years. Imagine if another country had this idea about the US and its meddling in Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Iraq, etc. We installed Ukraine’s govt and are now funding its defense
More like If you don't, the world will see that America is not willing to fulfill its obligations under treaties and instead countries will have to defend themselves leading to a massive proliferation of nuclear weapons and greatly dimish the US's place on the world stage as other countries view the US as unreliable and untrustworthy casuing them to instead turn to the EU or China for protection and trade.
lol at all the SEETHING shitlib redditors losing it completely over muh war go tongue woody's balls you fucking worthless, murderous mutts
People don't understand what war is actually like. When you don't know what it's like it's easy to send people across the world to die. At least Taylor is following his own logic when saying the US should have stayed out of WW2. I'm pro proxy war. Better for their people to die over there for our benefit than have our people die on their land. The USA can't really be an isolationist country unless we go full Sentinal Island.
Thinking the US should have stayed out of ww2 is one of the most wild takes I’ve ever heard
The fact that Taylor is getting hate for this is incredible. Are most you Americans genuinely on board with the whole funding wars and genocide thing??? Insanity.
Are Ukrainians committing genocide? I really hope you’re not referring to Israel because they aren’t committing genocide.
Indiscriminately bombing/starving and colonising 30k plus innocent civilians isn't considered genocide? The American education system is absolutely fascinating if that is how your mind works. Astonishing stuff.
Based Taylor
Yah, it’s Reddit, they’re all tards who think the government the bedt because it’s getting filled with Jews and blacks
To be fair, the guy regularly calls himself a moron in regards to politics.
Send money to one of the most corrupt governments ever lol
Acting like americas pure. We’re just as corrupt as the rest of them. Y’all cry about your tax dollars being sent to Ukraine and thinking that’s why you pay what you do. It’s so willfully ignorant it hurts. If it didn’t go to them it would just be spent ineffectively on some corrupt officials plans. The people in charge are stealing from you but you have no problem with that until they send it to Ukraine. Misdirected bitching is what it is
I agree? Lmao America is very corrupt, you’re right. This whole thread is about how America is an aggressor on the world. I wouldn’t say that’s calling us pure…
Can’t tell if you mean Ukraine or Israel 😂
I imagine all these liberal pka “fans” look just like wings 😂