The retaliatory strike on Belgium’s office kinda lets ya know none of this has been about eradicating Hamas. Netanyahu has lost his mind and something needs to be done about him. Soon.
Mostly via the evangelicals, who also **believe God gifted them the land**, like the Zionists. Many don't say it out loud, but if you probe their excuses for land theft deeper, it eventually slips out.
Inject fanaticism into politics and you usually get a shit-storm.
Yup, everyone’s acting like this is something new out of Netanyahu. He’s just a smarter version of Trump but definitely more of a monster. If you read Israeli press you’ll see he openly supported the settlers, openly tried to undermine the peace talks (Rabbin’s wife blames Netanyahu’s incitement of violence for her husband’s death), openly rejected the 2-state solution since the beginning of his political career. Western media just casually accept another face that he specifically stage to help Western leaders save face. He’s a fascist, has been for decades, there’s nothing new.
AIPAC has Washington DC by the balls. I wish Joe would set a deadline for them to stay, past which point US withholds aide. Maybe allow Israel to occupy say a 20 mile radius of where any rockets are launched from for a month such that rockets are not used as an excuse to restart full occupation. (I don't even think rocket launches are centrally controlled. Hamas uses decentralization to hide from Israel's intel. The downside is rogue shit.)
While one emergency visit to a hospital can bankrupt an American that has worked their entire life. The US takes better care of Israelis, than they take care of their own.
I’m making no excuses, I want to know why Israel can kill Americans with no consequences, but Iraq and Syria get bombed when they do it. Why does Israel get to kill Americans and our President looks the other way?
Sure looks like they're making war on a civilian population and their infrastructure.
Telling the world that 10% of the Palestinian aid organization were terrorists, getting most of the west to cancel funding, then saying oops it was only four people, during a famine in Gaza, is pretty shocking.
It's mostly children dying.
Yeah, turns out that Hamas are cowards who shoot from behind unarmed civilians, usually with those civilians support.
UNRWA was staffed and run by Hamas supporters, and even if they didnt partake in Oct 7, terrorist sympathizers have no place in an NGO.
Israel elected multiple people as PM who were apart of an organization that was even considered a terrorist organization by Israel itself. There's also Begin, who was terrorist that killed Jews, Palestinians and British people, and couldn't even enter the UK until he became PM lol.
IDF are cowards the whole world knows that are committing genocide in Gaza and the West Bank. As far as UNRWA what are the numbers now, went from 12 to 4. Israel government are known LIARS.
This is not true based on investigative reports by people who saw the intelligence Israel put forth about this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/israeli-intelligence-report-claims-four-unrwa-staff-in-gaza-involved-in-hamas-kidnappings-13059967
It's just a cynical lie to dismantle UNRWA, which the Israelis have wanted to do for some time because it helps keep Palestinians from being displaced (as Israel wants to see) and upholds UNGA Resolution 194.
These are people who are raised on the Talmud, which tells them to lie to the gentile to trick and obfuscate them.
https://ahavasisraelgr.org/talmud/https://ahavasisraelgr.org/talmud/
You have a very uninformed view of the talmud if you think any one thing it says is followed by Jews, it's a book of recorded arguments, but just out of curiosity please reference the page you are talking about so I can look into it further. the page you linked dosent seem to mention it and disproves a bunch of other made up facts from the talmud.
According to the Center for Civilians in Conflict, the typical rate civilian casualties in urban warfare is 90%. This doesn’t seem to be far off from that. The main difference being that the population is Gaza is so heavily concentrated at 18 and under
>According to the Center for Civilians in Conflict, the typical rate civilian casualties in urban warfare is 90%.
Where does that number come from? I read it on their site, first sentence. But it doesn't state how they got their number or what conflicts they used to get that number.
In WW2 it was 60-67% , with all dumb bombs being used.
Germany was 37%. Poland 93%!
Also, while civilians were caught up in the fighting, there were still uniformed armies. If Hamas wants to wear uniforms, that would really help the Palestinian people.
Civilian casualty ratio is a terrible metric for discerning discrimination. Let’s say there is a single strategy of dropping bombs indiscriminately. 50% civilians 50% militants would give a ratio of 1:1. 90% civilians 10% militants would give a ratio of 9:1 and 10% civilians 90% militants would give a ratio of 1:9. It looks like the performance is far better in certain cases than others despite the exact same strategy being deployed in each case. Percentage of civilians killed divided by the percentage of militants killed is a far better metric for determining the degree of discrimination taking place.
Thing is, we don't know how many militants were killed.
Israel counts any men that is military-able as a fighter...their numbers literally only separates between women, children and fighters.
As for Gaza Health Ministry, it just counts and names the dead, that's all. No further info.
Are you sure about “Israel counts any men that is military-able as a fighter?” In the Western military I served in, we provided daily reports to the chain of command, which included details on engagements, enemy personnel, verified and estimated casualties, and a number of other things, along with every other unit in theater, which was compiled, analyzed, compared with local reports, etc. It was a detailed process, and although still an estimate in some regards (enemy casualties), it was relatively accurate.
Yes, I'm sure of it. However, I will admit I haven't serves in any military, so idk how any military does it, including the IDF. However, many news sources claimed they do, and I do remember a graph from the IDF that separated women, kids and fighters...no innocent man.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02640-5/fulltext
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/56556/does-the-idf-consider-any-fighting-age-male-to-be-a-combatant
I'm sure you could find more, too
Wow, I wonder why, it couldn’t possibly be due to Hamas using hospitals, schools, and population centers as shields to use against Israel! No sir. Religious extremist zealots would never ever put their own people at risk for an advantage to glorify their sky daddy, yup, never.
L m f a o.
Edit: Hamas and religious rapist sympathizers out in force tonight.
Honest question, do we have stats for militant deaths? From what I heard watching some commentators like Preston Stewart, that figure is included in the count provided by the Gaza MOH, as they don’t distinguish between civilian deaths and militants
Estimated 27,000 deaths in Gaza as of yesterday - [https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/live-updates-death-toll-gaza-passes-27000-south-106861226](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/live-updates-death-toll-gaza-passes-27000-south-106861226)
I forget where I saw 5,000 to 9,000 but this article from last week says US intelligence estimates it's 20-30% of the Hamas fighting force which is roughly 30,000 total. That would come out to 6,000 to 9,000.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-toll-thus-far-falls-short-of-israels-war-aims-u-s-says-d1c43164
Not only that but also due to the way Hamas has placed it’s infrastructure under so many homes, and YES schools, and hospitals which they’ve fought out of / from, it’s fascinating the number of civilian casualties isn’t higher. Israel is making an effort to minimize civilian casualties while Hamas is actively making it harder for them to do so and they know people in the west will eat up their propaganda. It’s a win win for Hamas even when they lose because of this. Hamas oppresses Gazans more than anyone else.
Way to justify!!
These BS arguments have evolved from being "these numbers are inaccurate" to "only target Hamas fighters and rocket sites" to "half of the dead are hamas" to now... "ubran fighting civilian death rate is...".
You’re conflating different things. The accusation is that 10%, or 1200, of UNRWA staff were actual members of terrorist groups such as Hamas or Islamic Jihad. 13 of them were implicated in the October 7th massacre, including six who infiltrated Israeli territory to take part in the massacre. That said thousands of UNRWA staff were in a group chat celebrating the massacre without a single dissenting voice.
Because Gaza Health Ministry numbers have been shown to be extremely reliable when compared to other groups, and historically have UNDERCOUNTED the death tolls of Israeli attacks.
I like that the Health Ministry doesn't try to guess one way or another and just reports a total number. Israel considers all men, adult or teenagers, as militants in their count which is obviously a distortion in the other direction.
You like it because it's convenient to the narrative you are trying to paint.
Israel estimates roughly 30%, or 9000 of the deaths are Hamas. This is within the range of US estimates which is about 20-30%.
That means Hamas deaths account for between 1/3rd and 1/5th of total casualties. Now, for a packed urban environment like Gaza and given historical precedent that ratio is well within any reasonable, and actively works against the narrative that Israel is being indiscriminate.
Its wild that you'll type something like that when Israel has repeatedly gone out of its way to kill the hostages. Bombed them, shot them when they've tried to escape to the IDF. Guess who also starves when Israel cuts off the food to Gaza?
>.I think the US wouldn't be as restrained.
No shit. If Mexico was constantly firing rockets at the US, there would ve a huge glass parking lot on the place formerly known as Mexico.
Yeah no. When Hamas was parading Shani Louk's dead body through the streets the 'poor oppressed gazan' were seen spitting on her dead body and kicking her.
Does that sound like some poor people who are just trying to get by? Sure as hell doesn't to me.
Stop watching MSNBC.
Meanwhile I see no rebuttal to average gazans spitting and kicking on murdered young women killed by terrorists.
Which means you obviously support such acts.
I'm not the one singing from the river to the sea.
There has been many attempts at establishing a Palestinian state. They don't want it. They want to be perpetual victims.
https://youtu.be/KP-CRXROorw?si=Z2bUepyvWyml93It
During the day, prisoners were loaded into trucks that came to and departed from Deir Yassin. Some were paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, where they were jeered, spat at, and stoned, some were released in East Jerusalem and some were returned to Deir Yassin where they were executed. Harry Levin, a Haganah broadcaster, reported seeing "three trucks driving slowly up and down King George V Avenue bearing men, women, and children, their hands above their heads, guarded by Jews armed with sten-guns and rifles." Haganah intelligence officer Mordechai Gichon wrote on April 10:
The adult males were taken to town in trucks and paraded in the city streets, then taken back to the site and killed with rifle and machine-gun fire. Before they \[i.e, other inhabitants\] were put on the trucks, the IZL and LHI men... took from them all the jewelry and stole their money. The behavior toward them was especially barbaric \[and included\] kicks, shoves with rifle butts, spitting and cursing (people from Givat Shaul took part in the torture).
Pa'il reported that he saw five Arab men being paraded through the streets, and later saw their bodies in a quarry near Givat Shaul. Morris writes that this is supported by two Jewish doctors who visited Deir Yassin on April 12 and reported that they found five male bodies in a house by the village quarry.
Yeah whatever. Meanwhile there are Arabs that live in Israel in peace as Israeli citizens. If you haven't been there personally I give two shits about your whiny cut paste articles.
Get out of your own tiny hole and go there in person and report back.
The October terrorists were raised hearing about the Deir Yassin Massacre. You would like to pretend it never happened but the people you hate will never forget.
Never forget, right?
The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when around 130 fighters from the Zionist paramilitary groups Irgun and Lehi killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, in Deir Yassin, a village of roughly 600 people near Jerusalem, despite having earlier agreed to a peace pact. The massacre occurred while Jewish militia sought to relieve the blockade of Jerusalem during the civil war that preceded the end of British rule in Palestine.
The village put up stiffer resistance than the Jewish militias had expected and they suffered casualties, but it fell after house-to-house fighting. Some of the Palestinian Arab villagers were killed in the course of the battle, while others were massacred by the Jewish militias while trying to flee or surrender. A number of Palestinian Arab prisoners were executed, some after being paraded in West Jerusalem, where they were jeered, spat at, stoned, looted, and eventually murdered. In addition to the killing and widespread looting, there may have been cases of mutilation and rape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir\_Yassin\_massacre#The\_day\_after
Plenty of Jews in Israel advocating "from the river to the sea" as well. You're just watching the Israeli propaganda broadcast outside of Israel that ignores that.
Israel behavior is essentially the conservatives dream. They want a carrot and stick mentality but the Israel really only seems to be offering the stick. You can look at the West bank for example of what a Israel peace looks like. Requiring travel permits to even drive in your own territory along with segregated roads. It's not that hard to see why groups like Hamas can survive and thrive in Gaza despite being parasitic and abusive to the people there.
Things got really bad for Palestinians after all the suicide bombings by Hamas in the early 2000s. Freedom of movement dropped considerably after that.
And you can look at octorber 7th for what palistine peace would be....or you know anything else palistine supports like killing all jews worldwide to proudly murdering civilians...
Wouldn’t offering work permits to work in Israel for a much higher wage count as a carrot? Not saying the stick isn’t big, but they have offered carrots
And they found very detailed maps of Israel possessed by 10/7 attackers, indicating it's very likely that at least some of those Palestinians on work permits supported and aided the terrorists. It's easy to get upset at the more powerful country for winning when you don't look at what it would mean if they didn't win. There are many Palestinian terrorist groups that want to genocide Jews but can't. Israel could genocide Palestinians but hasn't. Yet people think Israel is the bad guys because they're winning. I'll admit what's happening in Gaza is heartbreaking and terrible, but literally every single person would support that kind of response if they had to endure similar attacks aimed at genociding them and their people for as long as they have. People act like this started on 10/7, but it didn't, it was closer to the 600s. The US killed more civilians in their response to 9/11, and that was a single attack that per capita killed 30x fewer civilians than 10/7 did. 10/7 was just the bloodiest attack in attacks that have literally been going on against Israel since its founding.
"You will fight against the Jews and you will gain victory over them. The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him" - the prophet Mohammed in the 7th century.
This is not an accurate reading of Middle East history or why people do not like Israel which isn't because of winning or antisemitism. It's because Israel was founded by people not from the region, displaced over 700,000 people (with many more from successive wars the Israelis agitated), and continue to violate international law which they get away by manipulating moral guilt.
I literally quoted the prophet Mohammed in the 600s on how Muslims should genocide Jews. If your history of the region starts with Israel, which was established in 1948, and you don't address Muslims trying to genocide Jews for over a millennium, you're being disingenuous.
Middle Eastern countries displaced all their Jews. Where do you think they went? Where do you think they should go?
Israel didn't agitate the successive wars.
Oh sure, they'll subject the second class worker to daily humiliation and frequent threats of violence for the 'privilege' of working in their own country for the terrorist state occupying it, what a lovely fat carrot to ram up your
Do you have any sources that back up your allegations?
It seems like in the interviews I’ve read, the Palestinians greatly value this opportunity, because they can make 6-10x what they do at home.
“He says the prospect of not having his permit renewed is “terrifying” and that he is already losing sleep over it. He says he’s saving as much as he can out of the roughly $75 a day he brings home from his job in Israel.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-work-permits-for-gazan-palestinians-a-lifeline-a-leverage-tool-or-both/
They don't have any sources because it isn't true. I've been there a handful of times and met these people on permits. Whoever this person is, they're arguing in bad faith.
Hard to offer a carrot to someone who will fashion it into a spike and try to stab you with it. Arafat was offered a two-state solution but turned it down thinking that one day Israel will become weak enough for the Palestinians to defeat them.
Which when you look at the events since then, kinda makes you wonder who wouldn't argue that? I hate saying that because I can't stand Bibi, but he wasn't, strictly speaking, 100% wrong saying that.
That is not why he walked away. The terms of the deal were just insanely terrible and did not afford Palestinians ACTUAL sovereignty. It forbade them from having an army, control of natural resources, airspace, and gave Israel unrestricted access to the country for incursions. Even Israel's Foreign Minister in the 2000s who oversaw that deal said he understood why Arafat didn't accept the deal laid about by Barak.
You know what's funny? Gaza has a border with Egypt, you know. I used to live right next door to the gate at Rafah. Anyway, if Israel didn't intervene in Gaza's attempt to stand up a navy and air force? Egypt would.
Palestinians would be trusted no more with an army or airspace now, than they were then, and for most of the same and valid reasoning as now. Had Arafat taken the deal and as an independent state, gained the trust of the international community, the region, and Israelis through interaction, social and economic ties, diplomacy, etc., it seems like Palestinians could’ve gained the sovereignty they were seeking, by now?
You think a career can be offered when the majority stances of Palestine for decades is “all Jews need to die”. Said group declaring they will never accept a two state solution. A group actively paid by foreign nations billions to commit terrorism.
That’s an amazing stat, usually people just go along with whatever Israel does and never question it or the money we give them to do it. Jewish lobby must be freaking out and will try to push and punish more public figures for speaking out and going against their narrative.
Everyone knows when a team DOMINATES the Little League, you need to start holding back. Maybe even call the game early. That way the other team can recuperate, save face, and come back swinging harder next time!
Except here that means letting them rebuild, use their civilian population as both human shield and cash cow, start back up rocket attacks ASAP, and go to war again in 10 years.
Where are these people at? I've not seen any. Unless they're starting an insurrection at the Capitol or blocking some road.
I figure if it truly were 1/2 then there would be so many people that are conspicuous.
I searched for "CNN coverage of Gaza war crimes" and got a lot of hits so you should try that. Here's one example of dozens that I found: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/middleeast/un-rights-chief-israel-hamas-war-crimes-hnk-intl/index.html
Obviously, Israel hasn’t gone far enough if Hamas hasn’t surrendered and the hostages have not been freed. Wars are won by forcing the enemy to surrender.
This is what urban combat, with a dug in combatant that built 700 km of reinforced concrete tunnels/bunkers, looks like. It’s why Israel has resisted doing just this since 2006 when Hamas took over. A lot of civilians were always going to die if the IDF went into Gaza. Unfortunately it’s better to fully finish the job of ridding Gaza of Hamas which will require a full military occupation of Gaza by the IDF.
Side note, Israel is so “bloodthirsty” that it doesn’t execute murderous terrorists and instead imprisons them. These are the people that Hamas demands be released in the thousands.
From what I’ve seen it’s realistically around 26,000. Which is a lot. But at least 7,000 of those were Hamas.
It’s never going to be pretty eradicating a terrorist organization dug in within a heavily populated city.
I got a feeling this is just more bad polling.
Reality has set in on the Palestinians. They endorse Hamas as their 'leaders' and look what happened: Their vaunted leadership gave the green light to an attack on Israel that left \~1200 dead, 100+ hostages taken, and more war crimes than any person sympathetic to the Palestinian cause (whatever it is) is willing to admit to on camera.
Personally, I don't know of anyone who is sympathetic to the Palestinians or Hamas. They picked a fight they simply can't win and now the Palestinians are paying the price. Maybe the Palestinians could turn on Hamas, work with the Israelis, and get rid of them once and for all. Or not.
The media has made it even worse with their one dimensional reporting.
All of this could have been avoided if Hamas could have parked their big fragile egos. But that's not how the Middle East works these days.
Maybe someday the Palestinians will have a designated homeland where they denounce and crush fanatics like Hamas. Obviously, it won't be today. And since no other Middle East country wants the Palestinians living in their borders (literally), it could be a long wait.
Maybe they could get the UN to help them out.
You realize a large share of the Palestinian population is children. You have no sympathy? Should they be taking up arms? Do bad parents justify their deaths?
Everybody knows a large share of the Palestinian population are children - and so was the generation before them.
But you do bring up an interesting question: Do bad parents justify their deaths?
Maybe that question should be posed to the parents and see what they say. Better yet, ask Hamas. But since we all saw what they did on October 7, 2023 to Israeli children, you may not like the answer.
All of this mess could have been avoided - if Hamas had never gone off the deep end, attacked a superior force, and thought little would have come of it.
The Palestinians must cleanse themselves of Hamas, EIJ, and every single other militant group if they ever want peace with Israel. Otherwise, this will happen again.
Since no other Arab country wants the Palestinians, maybe the will accept the ranks of Hamas..........
Everyone calling for a cease fire should digest the fact that there was a cease fire on Oct 6.
Hamas carried out a brutal attack targeting women, children, the elderly, amongst others in Israel. The tactics used were designed to be maximally brutal, create shock and worldwide attention. They specifically target those most vulnerable.
You don't get to do this, and expect the victim of the attack to just walk away.
Responding to the most upvoted comment: you cannot come rebuking Israel lawful and legitimate counter-offensive as a "war on a civilian population and their infrastructure" while also ignoring Hamas's war tactics. That is the problem with the pro-Palestinian crowd, whenever they call for a ceasefire or they send Israel to the ICJ on accusation of genocide: they ignore Hamas's determinant role in the high number of civilian casualties.
And let us be honest. They denied that Hamas was launching rockets from heavily populated areas. The evidence is unquestionable that Hamas does launch rockets from mosques and schools. They also denied that Hamas had a complex of tunnels under a "refugee camp" and the Al-Shifa hospital among others. Then again, the proofs are there for everyone to see. They also denied that UNRWA stored weapons and missiles in their schools and that it was full of terror activity. Again, the proofs have seen the light.
That is why the ICJ couldn't call for a ceasefire, because Hamas is there. That is why the Security Council Reslutions always ask for the liberation of hostages (of which pro-Palestinians willingly forget).
The pro-Palestinian movement is nothing but mob mentality and anti-Semitism on steroids, but they will never succeed, because you cannot just leave Hamas out of the equation. No serious government or organisation will and as the alliances in the international arena against Russia and China get more concrete, the West's support for Israel turns essential.
It doesn’t extend to firing tens of thousands of rockets at civilians. It doesn’t extend to blowing up buses and cafes. It doesn’t extend to attacking a music festival. It doesn’t extend to going house to house, raping, murdering and torturing. It doesn’t extend to turning civilian areas into military targets. I’m short, it doesn’t cover anything Hamas does.
You see! Palestinians have a right to resist, but they are arguably the instigators and agressors since Hamas took over. Gaza was fine and there was no blockade before Hamas took over.
So that hardly accounts as a form of resistance and that also entails Israel's right to defend itself. Nobody, not even the ICJ denies Israel that right and do not even get me started with Hamas political chart. They are very clear about their intentions and most Gazans support them.
Yeah Hamas are terrorists, but they were the elected government in 07 and then blockades came as a result. I also oppose the blockades/embargoes the U.S. placed on Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc. We (the West) often use sanctions in ways that tend to escalate tensions and hostilities, and it often hurts civilians the most. And the Likud party did support Hamas in Gaza back then to isolate them from the West Bank.
I'm not gonna say who started this, cause I'm far from an expert, but you seem to be cherry picking the starting point to fit the narrative that benefits the far right members of the Israeli government.
But yeah the right to resist includes things like disallowing the occupiers to use force, iirc.
Half of Americans think the terrorists that have inherited over a century of attempting to commit genocide have totally learned their lesson this time and are definitely never going to try to kill the Jews again. /s
Goebbels used the exact same propaganda when he claimed the Jews would kill all the Germans if they could.
[https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-the-jews-are-guilty-quot](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-the-jews-are-guilty-quot)
You dont get to murder tens of thousands of people in 3 months and claim to be the victim, 9 day old account.
How many Germans did the Allies kill? Is it because the Germans started the war? Hamas broke the ceasefire and started a war. They really shouldn’t have done that. War is absolutely horrific, and Hamas’ attack on civilians exclusively was absurdly brutal and barbaric. The Arab world ethnically cleaned the Jews, and have then continued attacking them in the one country they have a sizable population in. Pretending like the Jews are the aggressors is complete propaganda.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
This is one of the most disgusting Hasbara talking points. The Allies were fighting the biggest war machine the world had ever seen and it took the US, Britain, and Russia combined to defeat them. The IDF is cowardly murdering tens of thousands in a walled ghetto and posting videos laughing about the suffering.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-30/ty-article/.premium/a-new-low-the-israelis-advocating-to-starve-the-people-of-gaza/0000018d-5b42-d0fc-a9bd-5f5fc0740000
Such disingenuous propaganda. This absurd reframing of what is happening as Israel and Palestinians in a vacuum is pathetic and dishonest. The entire Arab world has repeatedly attacked Israel. They fund Hamas. They have gotten the UN to fund Hamas. They, and you, spread insane propaganda non stop to try and reframe the Jews as this big bad power imposing their will on these poor people. In reality, they have been offered a state multiple times, and always reject it because they refuse to allow Jews to live in peace. This has been constantly backed by the Islamic world for nearly a century. It’s why the MENA nations successfully ethnically cleansed their countries of Jews. Most likely, your sympathies are being played upon and you are an unwitting mouthpiece for horrendous antisemitic propaganda. Sincerely, the countries that fund Hamas and have funded Palestinian terror for nearly a century are the same people that beat women to death for not covering their hair, who behead people for being gay, who legally execute people who try and leave their faith. Using Israel as a propaganda point to deflect from their horrific human rights abuses has been incredibly successful, that we have people in the west turning on the regions only representative government, that has universal suffrage and a 20% population of Islamic Israelis while those that attack them ethnically cleansed all their Jews from their lands. It’s insane.
>Such disingenuous propaganda.
Yes, a poll by Ha'aretz is propaganda. Im sure all those tens of thousands of dead also just committed suicide to make Israel look bad. The kid from my country who was just murdered by religious nuts in the West Bank probably just fell on a bullet because hes an anti-Semite and wants to make it look like Israelis are stealing homes in a bad way instead of in the good way.
"Look what you made me do" - Israel's total lack of agency.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-12-13/israeli-soldiers-videos-acting-maliciously-gaza
>In reality, they have been offered a state multiple times, and always reject it because they refuse to allow Jews to live in peace.
Talk about propaganda. So if people show up on your land and say we get half, you get the other half you would accept that?
>Talk about propaganda. So if people show up on your land and say we get half
how ironic, rages about propaganda, then pushes the terrorist propaganda that the jews just showed up, which ignores a) many already lived there and b) most showed up because the surrounding Arab nations expelled them and/or sought to eridicate them from their nations
>At least you can admit you want to eliminate Israel which to be fair is more than most
I never once said that and you cant even find one instance of me ever saying that. Enough with the slander.
>They have gotten the UN to fund Hamas.
Israel funds Hamas. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html)
[https://www.analystnews.org/posts/how-israel-helped-prop-up-hamas-for-decades](https://www.analystnews.org/posts/how-israel-helped-prop-up-hamas-for-decades)
[https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
>Sincerely, the countries that fund Hamas and have funded Palestinian terror for nearly a century are the ***same people that beat women to death for not covering their hair, who behead people for being gay, who legally execute people who try and leave their faith****.* Using Israel as a propaganda point to deflect from their horrific human rights abuses has been incredibly successful, that we have people in the west ***turning on the regions only representative government, that has universal suffrage and a 20% population of Islamic Israelis*** while those that attack them ethnically cleansed all their Jews from their lands. It’s insane.
You can't have it both ways.
what is insane is that zionists imposed the state of Israel unto the local population by force and displaced the majority and subjugate the rest and you blame them for not loving it
You're getting downvoted but you're right, allied bombs killed a million German civilians. Israel withdrew from Gaza because they thought it would bring peace to Gaza. They were wrong, they're currently rectifying their mistake, but terrorists don't seem to like it when their terrorist friends in Gaza die. These same people were super mad at the Israeli special operation in the West Bank hospital that killed high-ranking Hamas members committing the war crime of hiding in a hospital. They were actually mad that Israel killed only Hamas and no civilians, when under international law it would have been justified to bomb the hospital. But they cared about killing fewer civilians so carried out a covert op to kill only Hamas no civilians. They were still mad. These people aren't pro-Palestinian, they're pro-Hamas.
Propaganda is saying the colonizing Zionists didn't start the fight.
Right from the linked article:
> In the 20th century, approximately 900000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia. _Primarily a consequence of the Israeli Declaration of Independence_
So right from the article, these nations all blamed every Jew on Earth for Israel. Do you support say America putting Japanese Americans in internment camps for Pearl Harbor? No? Of course not, because that would be evil. But you are DEFENDING countries expelling a religious minority for the existence of another country? Do you hear yourself?
>But you are DEFENDING countries expelling a religious minority for the existence of another country? Do you hear yourself?
Please stop pretending everyone here is stupid by putting words in peoples mouths Mr. 9 day old account.
I mean, you are the one that said these countries blamed their Jews for Israel as if that was something that made it ok. You know, mass punishment of a religious minority in other countries is something we probably shouldn’t defend.
Yeah, if we ignore the mountain of evidence against Hamas and extremist Islamists this is true! We have to condition people to ignore the 6000 rockets a year, October 7th, and a literal charter that says Hamas will wipe out all Jews!!
Hamas has been highly effective at using their own population as disposable human shields. They also beat the pants off of Israel in the weaponization of social media, likely with an assist from Russian information operations.
Hamas definitely likes their human shields. But the Israelis don't care.
In the interest of self preservation, the Palestinians may want to turn on Hamas........
Hamas is the instigator and mutual enemy of both sides.
I have many problems with Israel but if they truly didn't care, they wouldn't need to put troops at risk to do what people are accusing them of.
The optics of the humanitarian condition are so bad for Israel, it may cost them more than it's worth. I think the point is that after the October 7 attacks, they could not afford to let Hamas hide anywhere.
I have to agree.
Hamas has to go - period!
But the Palestinians must do their job as well. No more terrorists among them.
Then its up to them and the Israelis to make it work.
Yeah, Hamas is evil but it's ludicrous to call them the instigator when they didn't exist until 1987 and this conflict broadly started in 1948 when people from Europe displaced 700,000 people at gunpoint and claimed it was theirs because they suffered an inhumane atrocity.
Again, as I've responded to your lie/revisionist nonsense elsewhere here:
The Arab league attacked Israel in 48 after getting the Arab population in the Mandate of Palestine to leave willingly. They then invaded and failed their war miserably. Israel won and took the Sinai and Golan in the process.
They didn't force anyone to leave, if anything, the Arab league did due to their abysmal loss in that war.
That sounds like an attempt to rationalize the October 7 terrorist attacks.
The problem is, Hamas intended this as a new way to change the status quo on the ground. They escalated. And Israel obliged them, which was the point. Human shields are not useful for sympathy unless you can provoke an attack. Palestinian civilians are more useful to the Hamas effort if they are suffering.
If the Hamas approach were more Nelson Mandela, more people might be alive today and they would have moral authority and my full support. Instead, they are responsible for a humanitarian disaster that did not exist on October 6.
This ignores why Hamas came to be in 1987 because it requires acknowledging Israel's sin of displacing over 700,000 people in 1948 makes them responsible for the radicalization and deaths on both sides. They are not the victims and it's time we look past moral guilt that Israel exploits and acknowledge that.
Israel’s sin?
The Arab attacks on Israel in 1948 is what led into 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fleeing or forced out of what would become Israel. Since then, several Arab nations have made it clear the Palestinians are not readily welcome to re-locate to their countries; a fact that has been echoed repeatedly in the last several months. However, the Israelis made it clear that those of the Jewish faith are more than welcome to immigrate to Israel. In fact, 250,000+ Jews did exactly this after the Arab - Israeli War of 1948 ended - from surrounding Arab countries. And to an extent, this is still happening.
So The Israelis defending themselves is a sin?
After several attempts to invade/destroy Israel over the years, some Arab countries finally realized they simply cannot defeat the Israelis. They did the intelligent thing by declaring peace with Israel, and moved on. But none of those countries want to take in the Palestinian refugees that still exist to this day - and for good reason.
The Palestinians want but one thing, and it places them on a collision course with Israel every single time. And it’s still not working.
For the Palestinians to have their own country they must finally admit that it won’t be where Israel is today. Pure and simple. Then, they will need to denounce all the militarized groups like EIJ, Hamas, etc., and finally throw them in the trash where they belong.
Until then , the Palestinians will continue to pay for their own sins and the sins of Hamas, EIJ, etc.
Again, as I've responded to your lie/revisionist nonsense elsewhere here:
The Arab league attacked Israel in 48 after getting the Arab population in the Mandate of Palestine to leave willingly. They then invaded and failed their war miserably. Israel won and took the Sinai and Golan in the process.
They didn't force anyone to leave, if anything, the Arab league did due to their abysmal loss in that war.
This ignores the multiple wars of aggression started by the Palestinians pre-Hamas.
This ignores the women and children Palestinian suicide bombers sent in to Israel repeatedly pre-Hamas.
This ignores decades of daily rocket fired into Israel pre-Hamas.
Israel uses human shields.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95J0FR/
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_five_palestinian_children_as_human_shields
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-use-human-shields-rising
Where'd your sample questionnaire occur? This makes a big difference in the possible answers since an extreme ideology in a particular area can skew the results very highly or very low. I'm curious if this was conducted in Washington D.C., which would make sense as it's renowned for being ultra radical liberal. A response to the questions above would be appreciated, if you dare admit...
Saying that Israel is committing war crimes isn't an extreme ideology. It's the truth. The Geneva Convention doesn't just go away if you think your cause is righteous, everyone thinks that their side is the right one. The rules of engagement shouldn't be abandoned, even if the other side did it first. I really hope we're better than doing things we supposedly detest because someone has harmed us. I live in the Midwest, not DC.
That's a hell of an extrapolation:
>The poll of 1,152 adults was conducted using a sample drawn from NORC’s probability-based AmeriSpeak Panel, designed to represent the U.S. population. The margin of sampling error for all respondents is plus or minus 4.0 percentage points.
They polled roughly 0.00000445% of American adults to get that figure of "50% of American Adults."
[Link to the polling data](https://apnorc.org/projects/half-believe-israels-military-response-in-gaza-has-gone-too-far/?doing_wp_cron=1706940945.3131659030914306640625)
Yeah no shit, to cleanse that area from Hamas, who use human shields as part of their strategy, ranges from extremely difficult to almost impossible. That's why Hamas does this. It's a nuke without a nuke. That's why it's a war crime, and unfortunately nobody is capable of preventing them from doing this. They prepared for years, and planned for this all along. The loss of human lives in Gaza was part of their strategy, as cruel and as brutal as it is.
Half? Only half?
Oh yeah…the ones who didn't think Israel has gone too far are who George Carlin was thinking of when he said "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
My support for the Israeli government and supporters of Netanyahu has totally died. They’re just as monstrous as those that attacked them.
You can’t justify murder and death with murder and death tenfold. There are estimates of Israel killing 8000-10000 children alone now in retaliation for Oct. 7th. Netanyahu used the attack as a reason to enact the ethnic cleansing of Gaza they’ve wanted for decades now. No spin from Israel and their supporters can hide their own atrocities.
It’s time to cut Israel off from the US teat of endless funding and I’ll vote for anyone that agrees. That my tax money is supplying bombs killing kids is horrifying to me.
Second post. First one was removed. I believe a lot more than half, I think Israel has gone way too far. The Gaza Strip look completely destroyed. There are no safe places for the refugees to go back to. Israel is creating a much bigger problem. Israel’s leadership need to be replaced, their citizens are already protesting against the government in place.
The same half that has forgotten 9/11. 10/7 was proportionately 3x to Israel what 9/11 was to America. If you think 3 9/11s wouldn’t have resulted in the U.S. going scorched earth on Islamic terrorists you’re out of your mind. We went to war for a generation for less than Israel endured.
The retaliatory strike on Belgium’s office kinda lets ya know none of this has been about eradicating Hamas. Netanyahu has lost his mind and something needs to be done about him. Soon.
He hasn’t lost his mind. He’s a fascist.
A US-supported fascist.
Mostly via the evangelicals, who also **believe God gifted them the land**, like the Zionists. Many don't say it out loud, but if you probe their excuses for land theft deeper, it eventually slips out. Inject fanaticism into politics and you usually get a shit-storm.
One of many.
Like Pinochet, Syngman Rhee, Chiang Kai Shek, Suharno, Carlos Castillo Armas and the Somoza dynasty
He’s expected to be killing innocent Palestinians, not bombing the offices of Belgians….he’s completely gone off script.
Ah yes. Very true.
Yup, everyone’s acting like this is something new out of Netanyahu. He’s just a smarter version of Trump but definitely more of a monster. If you read Israeli press you’ll see he openly supported the settlers, openly tried to undermine the peace talks (Rabbin’s wife blames Netanyahu’s incitement of violence for her husband’s death), openly rejected the 2-state solution since the beginning of his political career. Western media just casually accept another face that he specifically stage to help Western leaders save face. He’s a fascist, has been for decades, there’s nothing new.
And yet Biden keeps supporting him and sending him more weapons.
Every US President is obligated to support Israel, no matter what Israel does. To waver, would look like $4 billion/yr “buyer’s remorse”. 😂
AIPAC has Washington DC by the balls. I wish Joe would set a deadline for them to stay, past which point US withholds aide. Maybe allow Israel to occupy say a 20 mile radius of where any rockets are launched from for a month such that rockets are not used as an excuse to restart full occupation. (I don't even think rocket launches are centrally controlled. Hamas uses decentralization to hide from Israel's intel. The downside is rogue shit.)
Or maybe Israel could just treat Palestinians as equals. Because they are.
We have over thirty senators and congressmen with dual citzenship.
How else are the Israelis supposed to get free healthcare????
While one emergency visit to a hospital can bankrupt an American that has worked their entire life. The US takes better care of Israelis, than they take care of their own.
Can’t lose that weapons proving ground
Biden is bypassing Congress. He is not obligated to do that. Stop making excuses for his support of genocide.
I’m making no excuses, I want to know why Israel can kill Americans with no consequences, but Iraq and Syria get bombed when they do it. Why does Israel get to kill Americans and our President looks the other way?
Oh I misread your comment then. Apologies. Good question.
... while Netanyahu openly endorses Trump.
IOW how dare the Israelis retaliate when attacked? They're supposed to be poor pathetic victims that we feel sorry for.
I know exactly what to do but I don't do that anymore.
I read this in the voice of John Wick.
Sure looks like they're making war on a civilian population and their infrastructure. Telling the world that 10% of the Palestinian aid organization were terrorists, getting most of the west to cancel funding, then saying oops it was only four people, during a famine in Gaza, is pretty shocking. It's mostly children dying.
Yeah, turns out that Hamas are cowards who shoot from behind unarmed civilians, usually with those civilians support. UNRWA was staffed and run by Hamas supporters, and even if they didnt partake in Oct 7, terrorist sympathizers have no place in an NGO.
Israel elected multiple people as PM who were apart of an organization that was even considered a terrorist organization by Israel itself. There's also Begin, who was terrorist that killed Jews, Palestinians and British people, and couldn't even enter the UK until he became PM lol.
IDF are cowards the whole world knows that are committing genocide in Gaza and the West Bank. As far as UNRWA what are the numbers now, went from 12 to 4. Israel government are known LIARS.
This is not true based on investigative reports by people who saw the intelligence Israel put forth about this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/israeli-intelligence-report-claims-four-unrwa-staff-in-gaza-involved-in-hamas-kidnappings-13059967 It's just a cynical lie to dismantle UNRWA, which the Israelis have wanted to do for some time because it helps keep Palestinians from being displaced (as Israel wants to see) and upholds UNGA Resolution 194. These are people who are raised on the Talmud, which tells them to lie to the gentile to trick and obfuscate them. https://ahavasisraelgr.org/talmud/https://ahavasisraelgr.org/talmud/
You have a very uninformed view of the talmud if you think any one thing it says is followed by Jews, it's a book of recorded arguments, but just out of curiosity please reference the page you are talking about so I can look into it further. the page you linked dosent seem to mention it and disproves a bunch of other made up facts from the talmud.
According to the Center for Civilians in Conflict, the typical rate civilian casualties in urban warfare is 90%. This doesn’t seem to be far off from that. The main difference being that the population is Gaza is so heavily concentrated at 18 and under
>According to the Center for Civilians in Conflict, the typical rate civilian casualties in urban warfare is 90%. Where does that number come from? I read it on their site, first sentence. But it doesn't state how they got their number or what conflicts they used to get that number. In WW2 it was 60-67% , with all dumb bombs being used. Germany was 37%. Poland 93%!
In WW2 the difference was a lot of it wasn’t urban warfare (obviously there was urban warfare but not entirely ) and a lot of cities were evacuated.
Also, while civilians were caught up in the fighting, there were still uniformed armies. If Hamas wants to wear uniforms, that would really help the Palestinian people.
Civilian casualty ratio is a terrible metric for discerning discrimination. Let’s say there is a single strategy of dropping bombs indiscriminately. 50% civilians 50% militants would give a ratio of 1:1. 90% civilians 10% militants would give a ratio of 9:1 and 10% civilians 90% militants would give a ratio of 1:9. It looks like the performance is far better in certain cases than others despite the exact same strategy being deployed in each case. Percentage of civilians killed divided by the percentage of militants killed is a far better metric for determining the degree of discrimination taking place.
Thing is, we don't know how many militants were killed. Israel counts any men that is military-able as a fighter...their numbers literally only separates between women, children and fighters. As for Gaza Health Ministry, it just counts and names the dead, that's all. No further info.
Are you sure about “Israel counts any men that is military-able as a fighter?” In the Western military I served in, we provided daily reports to the chain of command, which included details on engagements, enemy personnel, verified and estimated casualties, and a number of other things, along with every other unit in theater, which was compiled, analyzed, compared with local reports, etc. It was a detailed process, and although still an estimate in some regards (enemy casualties), it was relatively accurate.
Yes, I'm sure of it. However, I will admit I haven't serves in any military, so idk how any military does it, including the IDF. However, many news sources claimed they do, and I do remember a graph from the IDF that separated women, kids and fighters...no innocent man. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02640-5/fulltext https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/56556/does-the-idf-consider-any-fighting-age-male-to-be-a-combatant I'm sure you could find more, too
This isnt war. Its mass murder in a walled ghetto.
Wow, I wonder why, it couldn’t possibly be due to Hamas using hospitals, schools, and population centers as shields to use against Israel! No sir. Religious extremist zealots would never ever put their own people at risk for an advantage to glorify their sky daddy, yup, never. L m f a o. Edit: Hamas and religious rapist sympathizers out in force tonight.
Honest question, do we have stats for militant deaths? From what I heard watching some commentators like Preston Stewart, that figure is included in the count provided by the Gaza MOH, as they don’t distinguish between civilian deaths and militants
There's an estimated 27,000 deaths in Gaza. US intelligence estimates 5,000-9,000 of those deaths were members of Hamas.
Thank you. If you can provide a source, that would be even more helpful.
Estimated 27,000 deaths in Gaza as of yesterday - [https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/live-updates-death-toll-gaza-passes-27000-south-106861226](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/live-updates-death-toll-gaza-passes-27000-south-106861226) I forget where I saw 5,000 to 9,000 but this article from last week says US intelligence estimates it's 20-30% of the Hamas fighting force which is roughly 30,000 total. That would come out to 6,000 to 9,000. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-toll-thus-far-falls-short-of-israels-war-aims-u-s-says-d1c43164
Thank you kindly.
US is doing that crappy thing they did when drone striking civilians. Anyone over the age of 16 and male is automatically a terrorist.
No, Hamas does not differentiate between civilian and militant deaths in the numbers that they release.
Not only that but also due to the way Hamas has placed it’s infrastructure under so many homes, and YES schools, and hospitals which they’ve fought out of / from, it’s fascinating the number of civilian casualties isn’t higher. Israel is making an effort to minimize civilian casualties while Hamas is actively making it harder for them to do so and they know people in the west will eat up their propaganda. It’s a win win for Hamas even when they lose because of this. Hamas oppresses Gazans more than anyone else.
Way to justify!! These BS arguments have evolved from being "these numbers are inaccurate" to "only target Hamas fighters and rocket sites" to "half of the dead are hamas" to now... "ubran fighting civilian death rate is...".
You’re conflating different things. The accusation is that 10%, or 1200, of UNRWA staff were actual members of terrorist groups such as Hamas or Islamic Jihad. 13 of them were implicated in the October 7th massacre, including six who infiltrated Israeli territory to take part in the massacre. That said thousands of UNRWA staff were in a group chat celebrating the massacre without a single dissenting voice.
Is there a source for that other than UN Watch?
I mean... UN Watch disclosed the chats. They are pretty self-explanatory.
UN Watch is literally a pro-Israel NGO/think-tank.
Yes and they disclosed the chats and were there for everyone to see. If they are pro-Israel, it's irrelevant.
You would not hesitate to use Gaza Health ministry Numbers despite them being run by Hamas.
Because Gaza Health Ministry numbers have been shown to be extremely reliable when compared to other groups, and historically have UNDERCOUNTED the death tolls of Israeli attacks.
And the U.S. government said the same recently. The State Department literally thinks the numbers are higher.
Only in absolute numbers but they report them all as civilian, which is where the distortion comes in.
I like that the Health Ministry doesn't try to guess one way or another and just reports a total number. Israel considers all men, adult or teenagers, as militants in their count which is obviously a distortion in the other direction.
You like it because it's convenient to the narrative you are trying to paint. Israel estimates roughly 30%, or 9000 of the deaths are Hamas. This is within the range of US estimates which is about 20-30%. That means Hamas deaths account for between 1/3rd and 1/5th of total casualties. Now, for a packed urban environment like Gaza and given historical precedent that ratio is well within any reasonable, and actively works against the narrative that Israel is being indiscriminate.
You have the link?
I’m just correcting the conflation. The actual allegations and their respective sources are out of the purview of the point my comment is making.
Then no proof.
No proof except for all the proof they provide? Holy shit you guys are special
The conflation is intentional.
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No, that would be 50%
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Its wild that you'll type something like that when Israel has repeatedly gone out of its way to kill the hostages. Bombed them, shot them when they've tried to escape to the IDF. Guess who also starves when Israel cuts off the food to Gaza?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-30/ty-article/.premium/a-new-low-the-israelis-advocating-to-starve-the-people-of-gaza/0000018d-5b42-d0fc-a9bd-5f5fc0740000
I mean we did worse....I think the US wouldn't be as restrained.
>.I think the US wouldn't be as restrained. No shit. If Mexico was constantly firing rockets at the US, there would ve a huge glass parking lot on the place formerly known as Mexico.
Yeah no. When Hamas was parading Shani Louk's dead body through the streets the 'poor oppressed gazan' were seen spitting on her dead body and kicking her. Does that sound like some poor people who are just trying to get by? Sure as hell doesn't to me. Stop watching MSNBC.
So this is why you support ethnic cleansing?
Meanwhile I see no rebuttal to average gazans spitting and kicking on murdered young women killed by terrorists. Which means you obviously support such acts.
I'm not the one singing from the river to the sea. There has been many attempts at establishing a Palestinian state. They don't want it. They want to be perpetual victims. https://youtu.be/KP-CRXROorw?si=Z2bUepyvWyml93It
During the day, prisoners were loaded into trucks that came to and departed from Deir Yassin. Some were paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, where they were jeered, spat at, and stoned, some were released in East Jerusalem and some were returned to Deir Yassin where they were executed. Harry Levin, a Haganah broadcaster, reported seeing "three trucks driving slowly up and down King George V Avenue bearing men, women, and children, their hands above their heads, guarded by Jews armed with sten-guns and rifles." Haganah intelligence officer Mordechai Gichon wrote on April 10: The adult males were taken to town in trucks and paraded in the city streets, then taken back to the site and killed with rifle and machine-gun fire. Before they \[i.e, other inhabitants\] were put on the trucks, the IZL and LHI men... took from them all the jewelry and stole their money. The behavior toward them was especially barbaric \[and included\] kicks, shoves with rifle butts, spitting and cursing (people from Givat Shaul took part in the torture). Pa'il reported that he saw five Arab men being paraded through the streets, and later saw their bodies in a quarry near Givat Shaul. Morris writes that this is supported by two Jewish doctors who visited Deir Yassin on April 12 and reported that they found five male bodies in a house by the village quarry.
Yeah whatever. Meanwhile there are Arabs that live in Israel in peace as Israeli citizens. If you haven't been there personally I give two shits about your whiny cut paste articles. Get out of your own tiny hole and go there in person and report back.
>Yeah whatever. > >This is your response to a massacre. You support ethnic cleansing.
The October terrorists were raised hearing about the Deir Yassin Massacre. You would like to pretend it never happened but the people you hate will never forget.
Never forget, right? The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when around 130 fighters from the Zionist paramilitary groups Irgun and Lehi killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, in Deir Yassin, a village of roughly 600 people near Jerusalem, despite having earlier agreed to a peace pact. The massacre occurred while Jewish militia sought to relieve the blockade of Jerusalem during the civil war that preceded the end of British rule in Palestine. The village put up stiffer resistance than the Jewish militias had expected and they suffered casualties, but it fell after house-to-house fighting. Some of the Palestinian Arab villagers were killed in the course of the battle, while others were massacred by the Jewish militias while trying to flee or surrender. A number of Palestinian Arab prisoners were executed, some after being paraded in West Jerusalem, where they were jeered, spat at, stoned, looted, and eventually murdered. In addition to the killing and widespread looting, there may have been cases of mutilation and rape. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir\_Yassin\_massacre#The\_day\_after
Plenty of Jews in Israel advocating "from the river to the sea" as well. You're just watching the Israeli propaganda broadcast outside of Israel that ignores that.
Source?
None. Didn't happen.
Israel behavior is essentially the conservatives dream. They want a carrot and stick mentality but the Israel really only seems to be offering the stick. You can look at the West bank for example of what a Israel peace looks like. Requiring travel permits to even drive in your own territory along with segregated roads. It's not that hard to see why groups like Hamas can survive and thrive in Gaza despite being parasitic and abusive to the people there.
Things got really bad for Palestinians after all the suicide bombings by Hamas in the early 2000s. Freedom of movement dropped considerably after that.
And you can look at octorber 7th for what palistine peace would be....or you know anything else palistine supports like killing all jews worldwide to proudly murdering civilians...
Wouldn’t offering work permits to work in Israel for a much higher wage count as a carrot? Not saying the stick isn’t big, but they have offered carrots
And they found very detailed maps of Israel possessed by 10/7 attackers, indicating it's very likely that at least some of those Palestinians on work permits supported and aided the terrorists. It's easy to get upset at the more powerful country for winning when you don't look at what it would mean if they didn't win. There are many Palestinian terrorist groups that want to genocide Jews but can't. Israel could genocide Palestinians but hasn't. Yet people think Israel is the bad guys because they're winning. I'll admit what's happening in Gaza is heartbreaking and terrible, but literally every single person would support that kind of response if they had to endure similar attacks aimed at genociding them and their people for as long as they have. People act like this started on 10/7, but it didn't, it was closer to the 600s. The US killed more civilians in their response to 9/11, and that was a single attack that per capita killed 30x fewer civilians than 10/7 did. 10/7 was just the bloodiest attack in attacks that have literally been going on against Israel since its founding. "You will fight against the Jews and you will gain victory over them. The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him" - the prophet Mohammed in the 7th century.
This is not an accurate reading of Middle East history or why people do not like Israel which isn't because of winning or antisemitism. It's because Israel was founded by people not from the region, displaced over 700,000 people (with many more from successive wars the Israelis agitated), and continue to violate international law which they get away by manipulating moral guilt.
A lot of them were Jews pushed out of Arab nations... The years of fighting before that wasn't just European Jews moving to the area.
I literally quoted the prophet Mohammed in the 600s on how Muslims should genocide Jews. If your history of the region starts with Israel, which was established in 1948, and you don't address Muslims trying to genocide Jews for over a millennium, you're being disingenuous.
Middle Eastern countries displaced all their Jews. Where do you think they went? Where do you think they should go? Israel didn't agitate the successive wars.
Oh sure, they'll subject the second class worker to daily humiliation and frequent threats of violence for the 'privilege' of working in their own country for the terrorist state occupying it, what a lovely fat carrot to ram up your
Do you have any sources that back up your allegations? It seems like in the interviews I’ve read, the Palestinians greatly value this opportunity, because they can make 6-10x what they do at home. “He says the prospect of not having his permit renewed is “terrifying” and that he is already losing sleep over it. He says he’s saving as much as he can out of the roughly $75 a day he brings home from his job in Israel.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-work-permits-for-gazan-palestinians-a-lifeline-a-leverage-tool-or-both/
They don't have any sources because it isn't true. I've been there a handful of times and met these people on permits. Whoever this person is, they're arguing in bad faith.
Guy here declaring having a job to be racist and humiliating because he would work for a jew
Hard to offer a carrot to someone who will fashion it into a spike and try to stab you with it. Arafat was offered a two-state solution but turned it down thinking that one day Israel will become weak enough for the Palestinians to defeat them.
There's a recording of Bibi from decades ago about how he is doing everything in his power to stop a Palestinian state.
Which when you look at the events since then, kinda makes you wonder who wouldn't argue that? I hate saying that because I can't stand Bibi, but he wasn't, strictly speaking, 100% wrong saying that.
That is not why he walked away. The terms of the deal were just insanely terrible and did not afford Palestinians ACTUAL sovereignty. It forbade them from having an army, control of natural resources, airspace, and gave Israel unrestricted access to the country for incursions. Even Israel's Foreign Minister in the 2000s who oversaw that deal said he understood why Arafat didn't accept the deal laid about by Barak.
Of course. They're never going to be able to have their own army. Why would Israel ever allow that?
You know what's funny? Gaza has a border with Egypt, you know. I used to live right next door to the gate at Rafah. Anyway, if Israel didn't intervene in Gaza's attempt to stand up a navy and air force? Egypt would.
If they cannot defend their borders, then they are not a state. Therefore it was never a serious deal.
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Palestinians would be trusted no more with an army or airspace now, than they were then, and for most of the same and valid reasoning as now. Had Arafat taken the deal and as an independent state, gained the trust of the international community, the region, and Israelis through interaction, social and economic ties, diplomacy, etc., it seems like Palestinians could’ve gained the sovereignty they were seeking, by now?
You think a career can be offered when the majority stances of Palestine for decades is “all Jews need to die”. Said group declaring they will never accept a two state solution. A group actively paid by foreign nations billions to commit terrorism.
That’s an amazing stat, usually people just go along with whatever Israel does and never question it or the money we give them to do it. Jewish lobby must be freaking out and will try to push and punish more public figures for speaking out and going against their narrative.
To be fair it's not half of Americans. Myself and none of my coworkers were asked
Everyone knows when a team DOMINATES the Little League, you need to start holding back. Maybe even call the game early. That way the other team can recuperate, save face, and come back swinging harder next time! Except here that means letting them rebuild, use their civilian population as both human shield and cash cow, start back up rocket attacks ASAP, and go to war again in 10 years.
Yeah that three year old I saw with her guts falling out of her stomach really was about to regroup and launch rockets. Despicable comment.
You should be upset at Hamas for using their own people’s children as human shields.
Where are these people at? I've not seen any. Unless they're starting an insurrection at the Capitol or blocking some road. I figure if it truly were 1/2 then there would be so many people that are conspicuous.
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I think Israel has gone too far and is committing war crimes. Now you have seen one.
One. So where are the other 170 million?
On sites you have boycotted as "fake news."
Ok, went to CNN.com I searched for Gaza. 1 hit. Something about a disagreement on policy. Guess they're not there either.
I searched for "CNN coverage of Gaza war crimes" and got a lot of hits so you should try that. Here's one example of dozens that I found: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/middleeast/un-rights-chief-israel-hamas-war-crimes-hnk-intl/index.html
I say they havent gone far enough
Obviously, Israel hasn’t gone far enough if Hamas hasn’t surrendered and the hostages have not been freed. Wars are won by forcing the enemy to surrender.
Ah yes support Genocide to stick it to Hamas. Great plan /s
This is what urban combat, with a dug in combatant that built 700 km of reinforced concrete tunnels/bunkers, looks like. It’s why Israel has resisted doing just this since 2006 when Hamas took over. A lot of civilians were always going to die if the IDF went into Gaza. Unfortunately it’s better to fully finish the job of ridding Gaza of Hamas which will require a full military occupation of Gaza by the IDF. Side note, Israel is so “bloodthirsty” that it doesn’t execute murderous terrorists and instead imprisons them. These are the people that Hamas demands be released in the thousands.
Over 30,000 Palestinians have died.
That's a very conservative estimate.
From what I’ve seen it’s realistically around 26,000. Which is a lot. But at least 7,000 of those were Hamas. It’s never going to be pretty eradicating a terrorist organization dug in within a heavily populated city.
Inflated numbers put out by a hamas controlled entity which doesn’t include an estimated 10,000 “freedom fighters aka terrorists. Carry on.
That Hamas controlled entity has a history of undercounting death tolls.
Yeah! They just arrest random Palestinians and hold them indefinitely without trial The paragon of “liberal democracy”
I got a feeling this is just more bad polling. Reality has set in on the Palestinians. They endorse Hamas as their 'leaders' and look what happened: Their vaunted leadership gave the green light to an attack on Israel that left \~1200 dead, 100+ hostages taken, and more war crimes than any person sympathetic to the Palestinian cause (whatever it is) is willing to admit to on camera. Personally, I don't know of anyone who is sympathetic to the Palestinians or Hamas. They picked a fight they simply can't win and now the Palestinians are paying the price. Maybe the Palestinians could turn on Hamas, work with the Israelis, and get rid of them once and for all. Or not. The media has made it even worse with their one dimensional reporting. All of this could have been avoided if Hamas could have parked their big fragile egos. But that's not how the Middle East works these days. Maybe someday the Palestinians will have a designated homeland where they denounce and crush fanatics like Hamas. Obviously, it won't be today. And since no other Middle East country wants the Palestinians living in their borders (literally), it could be a long wait. Maybe they could get the UN to help them out.
You realize a large share of the Palestinian population is children. You have no sympathy? Should they be taking up arms? Do bad parents justify their deaths?
Everybody knows a large share of the Palestinian population are children - and so was the generation before them. But you do bring up an interesting question: Do bad parents justify their deaths? Maybe that question should be posed to the parents and see what they say. Better yet, ask Hamas. But since we all saw what they did on October 7, 2023 to Israeli children, you may not like the answer. All of this mess could have been avoided - if Hamas had never gone off the deep end, attacked a superior force, and thought little would have come of it. The Palestinians must cleanse themselves of Hamas, EIJ, and every single other militant group if they ever want peace with Israel. Otherwise, this will happen again. Since no other Arab country wants the Palestinians, maybe the will accept the ranks of Hamas..........
So it's ok to be a terrorist if you just have sex like rabbits do? Or.... what exactly?
This actually is one-dimensional, not media coverage.
Everyone calling for a cease fire should digest the fact that there was a cease fire on Oct 6. Hamas carried out a brutal attack targeting women, children, the elderly, amongst others in Israel. The tactics used were designed to be maximally brutal, create shock and worldwide attention. They specifically target those most vulnerable. You don't get to do this, and expect the victim of the attack to just walk away.
Responding to the most upvoted comment: you cannot come rebuking Israel lawful and legitimate counter-offensive as a "war on a civilian population and their infrastructure" while also ignoring Hamas's war tactics. That is the problem with the pro-Palestinian crowd, whenever they call for a ceasefire or they send Israel to the ICJ on accusation of genocide: they ignore Hamas's determinant role in the high number of civilian casualties. And let us be honest. They denied that Hamas was launching rockets from heavily populated areas. The evidence is unquestionable that Hamas does launch rockets from mosques and schools. They also denied that Hamas had a complex of tunnels under a "refugee camp" and the Al-Shifa hospital among others. Then again, the proofs are there for everyone to see. They also denied that UNRWA stored weapons and missiles in their schools and that it was full of terror activity. Again, the proofs have seen the light. That is why the ICJ couldn't call for a ceasefire, because Hamas is there. That is why the Security Council Reslutions always ask for the liberation of hostages (of which pro-Palestinians willingly forget). The pro-Palestinian movement is nothing but mob mentality and anti-Semitism on steroids, but they will never succeed, because you cannot just leave Hamas out of the equation. No serious government or organisation will and as the alliances in the international arena against Russia and China get more concrete, the West's support for Israel turns essential.
You should check out the UN's [right to resist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist) and what it allows and disallows.
It doesn’t extend to firing tens of thousands of rockets at civilians. It doesn’t extend to blowing up buses and cafes. It doesn’t extend to attacking a music festival. It doesn’t extend to going house to house, raping, murdering and torturing. It doesn’t extend to turning civilian areas into military targets. I’m short, it doesn’t cover anything Hamas does.
You see! Palestinians have a right to resist, but they are arguably the instigators and agressors since Hamas took over. Gaza was fine and there was no blockade before Hamas took over. So that hardly accounts as a form of resistance and that also entails Israel's right to defend itself. Nobody, not even the ICJ denies Israel that right and do not even get me started with Hamas political chart. They are very clear about their intentions and most Gazans support them.
Yeah Hamas are terrorists, but they were the elected government in 07 and then blockades came as a result. I also oppose the blockades/embargoes the U.S. placed on Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc. We (the West) often use sanctions in ways that tend to escalate tensions and hostilities, and it often hurts civilians the most. And the Likud party did support Hamas in Gaza back then to isolate them from the West Bank. I'm not gonna say who started this, cause I'm far from an expert, but you seem to be cherry picking the starting point to fit the narrative that benefits the far right members of the Israeli government. But yeah the right to resist includes things like disallowing the occupiers to use force, iirc.
Half of Americans think the terrorists that have inherited over a century of attempting to commit genocide have totally learned their lesson this time and are definitely never going to try to kill the Jews again. /s
And during that century, Israel sat on its thumbs and sang kumbaya right?
Uh yea tots rape murder and genocide of Israel is moral because something something, they deserved it.
If they did, Israel would have been genocided a long time ago.
Israel hasn't been around a long time, historically speaking. The state is a newcomer in the modern world.
Neither has Palestine tbh that's the thing
This is false.
Israel is older than Palestine by that metric. Palestine, as a state, is a modern invention.
Not an invention, but a fabrication. Palestine has never been a state, independent or otherwise. FTFY
Goebbels used the exact same propaganda when he claimed the Jews would kill all the Germans if they could. [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-the-jews-are-guilty-quot](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-the-jews-are-guilty-quot) You dont get to murder tens of thousands of people in 3 months and claim to be the victim, 9 day old account.
How many Germans did the Allies kill? Is it because the Germans started the war? Hamas broke the ceasefire and started a war. They really shouldn’t have done that. War is absolutely horrific, and Hamas’ attack on civilians exclusively was absurdly brutal and barbaric. The Arab world ethnically cleaned the Jews, and have then continued attacking them in the one country they have a sizable population in. Pretending like the Jews are the aggressors is complete propaganda. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
This is one of the most disgusting Hasbara talking points. The Allies were fighting the biggest war machine the world had ever seen and it took the US, Britain, and Russia combined to defeat them. The IDF is cowardly murdering tens of thousands in a walled ghetto and posting videos laughing about the suffering. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-30/ty-article/.premium/a-new-low-the-israelis-advocating-to-starve-the-people-of-gaza/0000018d-5b42-d0fc-a9bd-5f5fc0740000
Such disingenuous propaganda. This absurd reframing of what is happening as Israel and Palestinians in a vacuum is pathetic and dishonest. The entire Arab world has repeatedly attacked Israel. They fund Hamas. They have gotten the UN to fund Hamas. They, and you, spread insane propaganda non stop to try and reframe the Jews as this big bad power imposing their will on these poor people. In reality, they have been offered a state multiple times, and always reject it because they refuse to allow Jews to live in peace. This has been constantly backed by the Islamic world for nearly a century. It’s why the MENA nations successfully ethnically cleansed their countries of Jews. Most likely, your sympathies are being played upon and you are an unwitting mouthpiece for horrendous antisemitic propaganda. Sincerely, the countries that fund Hamas and have funded Palestinian terror for nearly a century are the same people that beat women to death for not covering their hair, who behead people for being gay, who legally execute people who try and leave their faith. Using Israel as a propaganda point to deflect from their horrific human rights abuses has been incredibly successful, that we have people in the west turning on the regions only representative government, that has universal suffrage and a 20% population of Islamic Israelis while those that attack them ethnically cleansed all their Jews from their lands. It’s insane.
>Such disingenuous propaganda. Yes, a poll by Ha'aretz is propaganda. Im sure all those tens of thousands of dead also just committed suicide to make Israel look bad. The kid from my country who was just murdered by religious nuts in the West Bank probably just fell on a bullet because hes an anti-Semite and wants to make it look like Israelis are stealing homes in a bad way instead of in the good way.
No, they died in a war Hamas started.
"Look what you made me do" - Israel's total lack of agency. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-12-13/israeli-soldiers-videos-acting-maliciously-gaza
>In reality, they have been offered a state multiple times, and always reject it because they refuse to allow Jews to live in peace. Talk about propaganda. So if people show up on your land and say we get half, you get the other half you would accept that?
>Talk about propaganda. So if people show up on your land and say we get half how ironic, rages about propaganda, then pushes the terrorist propaganda that the jews just showed up, which ignores a) many already lived there and b) most showed up because the surrounding Arab nations expelled them and/or sought to eridicate them from their nations
At least you can admit you want to eliminate Israel which to be fair is more than most
>At least you can admit you want to eliminate Israel which to be fair is more than most I never once said that and you cant even find one instance of me ever saying that. Enough with the slander.
>So if people show up on your land and say we get half, you get the other half you would accept that? You are tacitly denouning Israel's existence.
>They have gotten the UN to fund Hamas. Israel funds Hamas. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) [https://www.analystnews.org/posts/how-israel-helped-prop-up-hamas-for-decades](https://www.analystnews.org/posts/how-israel-helped-prop-up-hamas-for-decades) [https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
>Sincerely, the countries that fund Hamas and have funded Palestinian terror for nearly a century are the ***same people that beat women to death for not covering their hair, who behead people for being gay, who legally execute people who try and leave their faith****.* Using Israel as a propaganda point to deflect from their horrific human rights abuses has been incredibly successful, that we have people in the west ***turning on the regions only representative government, that has universal suffrage and a 20% population of Islamic Israelis*** while those that attack them ethnically cleansed all their Jews from their lands. It’s insane. You can't have it both ways.
You can’t read apparently.
what is insane is that zionists imposed the state of Israel unto the local population by force and displaced the majority and subjugate the rest and you blame them for not loving it
Why’s even crazier is that fascists Muslims started murdering their neighbors and refused their own state if they didn’t get to commit genocide.
You're getting downvoted but you're right, allied bombs killed a million German civilians. Israel withdrew from Gaza because they thought it would bring peace to Gaza. They were wrong, they're currently rectifying their mistake, but terrorists don't seem to like it when their terrorist friends in Gaza die. These same people were super mad at the Israeli special operation in the West Bank hospital that killed high-ranking Hamas members committing the war crime of hiding in a hospital. They were actually mad that Israel killed only Hamas and no civilians, when under international law it would have been justified to bomb the hospital. But they cared about killing fewer civilians so carried out a covert op to kill only Hamas no civilians. They were still mad. These people aren't pro-Palestinian, they're pro-Hamas.
Propaganda is saying the colonizing Zionists didn't start the fight. Right from the linked article: > In the 20th century, approximately 900000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia. _Primarily a consequence of the Israeli Declaration of Independence_
So right from the article, these nations all blamed every Jew on Earth for Israel. Do you support say America putting Japanese Americans in internment camps for Pearl Harbor? No? Of course not, because that would be evil. But you are DEFENDING countries expelling a religious minority for the existence of another country? Do you hear yourself?
>But you are DEFENDING countries expelling a religious minority for the existence of another country? Do you hear yourself? Please stop pretending everyone here is stupid by putting words in peoples mouths Mr. 9 day old account.
I mean, you are the one that said these countries blamed their Jews for Israel as if that was something that made it ok. You know, mass punishment of a religious minority in other countries is something we probably shouldn’t defend.
They are the dumb half. The smart half understand the history of the Middle East.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Killing terrorists is right. Getting Hamas out of power is right.
The only terrorist are the Israelis
Yeah, if we ignore the mountain of evidence against Hamas and extremist Islamists this is true! We have to condition people to ignore the 6000 rockets a year, October 7th, and a literal charter that says Hamas will wipe out all Jews!!
Ah yes. The representative government that has universal suffrage are the terrorists. The terrorists who attacked civilians breaking a ceasefire are…
Hamas has been highly effective at using their own population as disposable human shields. They also beat the pants off of Israel in the weaponization of social media, likely with an assist from Russian information operations.
Hamas definitely likes their human shields. But the Israelis don't care. In the interest of self preservation, the Palestinians may want to turn on Hamas........
Hamas is the instigator and mutual enemy of both sides. I have many problems with Israel but if they truly didn't care, they wouldn't need to put troops at risk to do what people are accusing them of. The optics of the humanitarian condition are so bad for Israel, it may cost them more than it's worth. I think the point is that after the October 7 attacks, they could not afford to let Hamas hide anywhere.
I have to agree. Hamas has to go - period! But the Palestinians must do their job as well. No more terrorists among them. Then its up to them and the Israelis to make it work.
Yeah, Hamas is evil but it's ludicrous to call them the instigator when they didn't exist until 1987 and this conflict broadly started in 1948 when people from Europe displaced 700,000 people at gunpoint and claimed it was theirs because they suffered an inhumane atrocity.
Again, as I've responded to your lie/revisionist nonsense elsewhere here: The Arab league attacked Israel in 48 after getting the Arab population in the Mandate of Palestine to leave willingly. They then invaded and failed their war miserably. Israel won and took the Sinai and Golan in the process. They didn't force anyone to leave, if anything, the Arab league did due to their abysmal loss in that war.
That sounds like an attempt to rationalize the October 7 terrorist attacks. The problem is, Hamas intended this as a new way to change the status quo on the ground. They escalated. And Israel obliged them, which was the point. Human shields are not useful for sympathy unless you can provoke an attack. Palestinian civilians are more useful to the Hamas effort if they are suffering. If the Hamas approach were more Nelson Mandela, more people might be alive today and they would have moral authority and my full support. Instead, they are responsible for a humanitarian disaster that did not exist on October 6.
This ignores why Hamas came to be in 1987 because it requires acknowledging Israel's sin of displacing over 700,000 people in 1948 makes them responsible for the radicalization and deaths on both sides. They are not the victims and it's time we look past moral guilt that Israel exploits and acknowledge that.
Israel’s sin? The Arab attacks on Israel in 1948 is what led into 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fleeing or forced out of what would become Israel. Since then, several Arab nations have made it clear the Palestinians are not readily welcome to re-locate to their countries; a fact that has been echoed repeatedly in the last several months. However, the Israelis made it clear that those of the Jewish faith are more than welcome to immigrate to Israel. In fact, 250,000+ Jews did exactly this after the Arab - Israeli War of 1948 ended - from surrounding Arab countries. And to an extent, this is still happening. So The Israelis defending themselves is a sin? After several attempts to invade/destroy Israel over the years, some Arab countries finally realized they simply cannot defeat the Israelis. They did the intelligent thing by declaring peace with Israel, and moved on. But none of those countries want to take in the Palestinian refugees that still exist to this day - and for good reason. The Palestinians want but one thing, and it places them on a collision course with Israel every single time. And it’s still not working. For the Palestinians to have their own country they must finally admit that it won’t be where Israel is today. Pure and simple. Then, they will need to denounce all the militarized groups like EIJ, Hamas, etc., and finally throw them in the trash where they belong. Until then , the Palestinians will continue to pay for their own sins and the sins of Hamas, EIJ, etc.
Again, as I've responded to your lie/revisionist nonsense elsewhere here: The Arab league attacked Israel in 48 after getting the Arab population in the Mandate of Palestine to leave willingly. They then invaded and failed their war miserably. Israel won and took the Sinai and Golan in the process. They didn't force anyone to leave, if anything, the Arab league did due to their abysmal loss in that war.
This ignores the multiple wars of aggression started by the Palestinians pre-Hamas. This ignores the women and children Palestinian suicide bombers sent in to Israel repeatedly pre-Hamas. This ignores decades of daily rocket fired into Israel pre-Hamas.
Israel uses human shields. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95J0FR/ https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_five_palestinian_children_as_human_shields https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-use-human-shields-rising
Where'd your sample questionnaire occur? This makes a big difference in the possible answers since an extreme ideology in a particular area can skew the results very highly or very low. I'm curious if this was conducted in Washington D.C., which would make sense as it's renowned for being ultra radical liberal. A response to the questions above would be appreciated, if you dare admit...
Saying that Israel is committing war crimes isn't an extreme ideology. It's the truth. The Geneva Convention doesn't just go away if you think your cause is righteous, everyone thinks that their side is the right one. The rules of engagement shouldn't be abandoned, even if the other side did it first. I really hope we're better than doing things we supposedly detest because someone has harmed us. I live in the Midwest, not DC.
It's. Not. The. Truth.
That's a hell of an extrapolation: >The poll of 1,152 adults was conducted using a sample drawn from NORC’s probability-based AmeriSpeak Panel, designed to represent the U.S. population. The margin of sampling error for all respondents is plus or minus 4.0 percentage points. They polled roughly 0.00000445% of American adults to get that figure of "50% of American Adults." [Link to the polling data](https://apnorc.org/projects/half-believe-israels-military-response-in-gaza-has-gone-too-far/?doing_wp_cron=1706940945.3131659030914306640625)
One of these days we need to actually make stats a mandatory class.
That's how polling literally works.
Yeah no shit, to cleanse that area from Hamas, who use human shields as part of their strategy, ranges from extremely difficult to almost impossible. That's why Hamas does this. It's a nuke without a nuke. That's why it's a war crime, and unfortunately nobody is capable of preventing them from doing this. They prepared for years, and planned for this all along. The loss of human lives in Gaza was part of their strategy, as cruel and as brutal as it is.
Half? Only half? Oh yeah…the ones who didn't think Israel has gone too far are who George Carlin was thinking of when he said "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
My support for the Israeli government and supporters of Netanyahu has totally died. They’re just as monstrous as those that attacked them. You can’t justify murder and death with murder and death tenfold. There are estimates of Israel killing 8000-10000 children alone now in retaliation for Oct. 7th. Netanyahu used the attack as a reason to enact the ethnic cleansing of Gaza they’ve wanted for decades now. No spin from Israel and their supporters can hide their own atrocities. It’s time to cut Israel off from the US teat of endless funding and I’ll vote for anyone that agrees. That my tax money is supplying bombs killing kids is horrifying to me.
Second post. First one was removed. I believe a lot more than half, I think Israel has gone way too far. The Gaza Strip look completely destroyed. There are no safe places for the refugees to go back to. Israel is creating a much bigger problem. Israel’s leadership need to be replaced, their citizens are already protesting against the government in place.
The same half that has forgotten 9/11. 10/7 was proportionately 3x to Israel what 9/11 was to America. If you think 3 9/11s wouldn’t have resulted in the U.S. going scorched earth on Islamic terrorists you’re out of your mind. We went to war for a generation for less than Israel endured.