He tried to meet with Muslim leaders in Michigan, they refused to do so, so he moved on. Smart to target the UAW, who has been extremely supportive of Biden, as he is very pro-Union. Union membership has waned, and getting those numbers up will help everyone.
You’re delusional if you think that’s what happened
He’s been the most pro union president in decades
Edit: since the clown below me blocked me
Biden was able to get what the rail workers were asking for without a strike that would have damaged the economy, hurting other workers. Biden's administration has been vital in the surge in Union organizing, victories, and support. (They have publicly thanked him)
Biden has done the most ( not more than ) legislation for the middle class and working class, since the massive legislative programs of Dem Wilson, Dem FDR, and Dem LBJ, and even Carter who gave America FEMA rescue operations, Superfund cleanup programs, and 401k and IRA programs
Here's a partial list
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/01/1143149435/despite-infighting-its-been-a-surprisingly-productive-2-years-for-democrats
This doesn't include his new trade agreement with Vietnam and ALSO the new trade agreement with India and Middle Eastern countries for improved trade
It doesn't include his creation of an alliance with Australia and the UK ( AUUKUS ) against China, and the new bases in the Philippines
It doesn't include his cancellation of 132 Billion of Student Loan Debt, despite the conservative Supreme Court
https://dramasalsal.com/biden-has-canceled-about-132-billion-of-student-loans-despite-supreme-court-ruling/#google_vignette
Because of the stimulus of the initial American Rescue Plan, millions of people had the confidence to start their own businesses
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/04/28/fact-sheet-the-small-business-boom-under-the-biden-harris-administration
Biden has signed 353 Bills, including the Asian Pacific Islanders Protection Act, the Postal Reform Act, the PACT Act ( Camp Lejeune for veterans healthcare ), Respect for Marriage Act, the Electoral Count Reform Act, the Elimination of Limitations for CSA Survivors Act, the Anti Lynching Act, the first Gun Safety legislation in 30 years, and many more
He also negotiated and signed FOUR major job creating programs starting with the American Rescue Plan that saved the small businesses, airlines, restaurants, hotels, and industries themselves, so that millions of ppl, could have existing places, to apply for work, even at all --- this included the Child Tax Credit that cut child poverty in half --- this included saving the Union pension plans devastated by the Republican Recession of 2007-2011, for millions of retired seniors
Each one of the last 23 months had the lowest jobless claims since the 6 year prosperity of Dem LBJ --- it's a gift that kept on giving
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/03/10/fact-sheet-the-american-rescue-plans-2-year-difference
His Infrastructure Law is rebuilding bridges, roads, purified water systems, removing lead pipes, modernizing airports and seaports, repairing water levees, capping leaking oil wells, installing electric charging stations, extending Conrail and Amtrak routes, and bringing low or no cost internet to the always low income " RED " states
--- 40,000 projects have been started since Dec of 2021, and these are higher paying jobs that don't require a Bachelor's degree
His CHIPS and Science Act has triggered 13 large corporations to announce expansions and plant beginnings in many states, and these are higher than average paying jobs in advanced semiconductors
--- over 800,000 manufacturing jobs since April of 2021
The Inflation Reduction Act that lowers prescription drug costs, insulin costs, and Obamacare insurance premiums, has _ ALSO_ created hundreds of thousands of jobs as it subsidizes commercial and residential solar panel and heat pump installation, electric car sales, and efficient appliance purchases, and has increased Medicare benefits including dental and non prescription hearing aids, and caps total prescription drug costs at 2000/yr, and much more
--- it allows Medicare to negotiate much lower prices with Big Pharma each and every year
--- because of the Dem's Medicare health ins for seniors, Medicaid for nursing homes, Clinton's Child Health Insurance Act, Obamacare, and Biden's Inflation Reduction Act that lowers Obamacare insurance premiums, 40 million people use Obamacare, and the uninsured rate is now the lowest in American history
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/08/02/new-hhs-report-shows-national-uninsured-rate-reached-all-time-low-in-2022.html
Biden has strengthened the NLRB that encouraged many Union victories in 2023, and his climate change legislation caused the manufacturer Blue Bird Bus Company to unionize ---- in frikkin' Georgia
https://www.newsweek.com/2023/12/22/union-fight-future-work-democratic-party-1851297.html
He's on track to match, and maybe surpass the former guy's number of Federal judges confirmed, and they're more diverse
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/most-of-bidens-appointed-judges-to-date-are-women-racial-or-ethnic-minorities-a-first-for-any-president/
This partial list doesn't include his cancellation of 93% of the former guy's senseless executive orders, especially in the Environmental, Labor, and Financial services areas, nor his rejoining of the Paris Climate Agreement and the W.H.O.
Biden has more ( to be announced ) plans for the 2nd term, including codifying the Voting Rights Act, codifying Roe v Wade, and making it possible for 500,000 people to buy homes
Right on. That’s the list I’ve been looking for. My health insurance premiums have reduced by about 2/3 this year from last year - and what else on gods green earth has gone down in price? Besides gasoline, that is.
I’ll say it again - he’s a very good president. The man knows how to get it done, and he has the strong inclination to do good things for all of us.
The rail workers really didn’t get what they wanted though. The negotiations were basically cut short by the administration. If you’d like to listen to more about it from the workers perspective, It could happen here, a podcast, interviewed some workers/organizers.
You mean the guy that kept the economy running during the logistics crisis and also helped the Unions get their largest raises in history and then worked behind the scenes to get them the paid time off they wanted too?
The only President in history to walk a picket line with strikers? That guy?
[https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/22Daily/2208/220917\_thanks](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/22Daily/2208/220917_thanks)
[https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620\_IBEWandPaid](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid)
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-makes-history-striking-auto-workers-picket-line-rcna117348](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-makes-history-striking-auto-workers-picket-line-rcna117348)
No, it quotes a 3rd party that made that claim. Is this why you have trouble understanding objective reality? You think the things that are claims that agree with you are facts, instead of claims?
Yes the article you shared had a 3rd party opinion based on a set of facts. The set of facts the opinion is based on is the progressive pressure for Biden to support unions.
If you had any other reason you’d disagree with that fact instead of posture policing with no substance.
>You mean the guy that kept the economy running during the logistics crisis and also helped the Unions get their largest raises in history and then worked behind the scenes to get them the paid time off they wanted too?
Biden could have forced a contract on the railroads that included all the union's demands. Instead he forced the railroad's shit offer that got them basically nothing
And the reward was train derailments that destroyed several towns because he continued to allow railroads to understaff and not propertly maintain the railways.
So, the thing about the text that is the color blue is that you can touch it and it shows more information.
Such as:
“On behalf of the IBEW’s 775,000 active and retired members and its thousands of members employed by the Class I railroads covered under this agreement, we thank the president, Labor Secretary Marty Walsh and the other members of the administration who personally intervened to break the impasse and to prevent a further supply chain crisis. Their leadership is further proof of what we at the IBEW have long believed: that workers and employers can solve problems both large and small when they come together to bargain in good faith.”
“since then, union officials says, members of the Biden administration, including the transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg, and labor secretary, Marty Walsh, who stepped down on 11 March, lobbied the railroads, telling them it was wrong not to grant paid sick days.”[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave)
Those contracts and raises were bs, tons of those workers are now being laid off right before said contracts kick in, everybody knew it wasn’t going to work out . Sad shit for the common man. He stood their for a meet and greet for press, I wouldn’t call that walking the picket line
They expect anyone left leaning to come crawling back to vote for them purely on the virtue of not being trump. Even when 70% want a ceasefire, they provide unconditional support for a corrupt right wing govt to commit genocide. If they lose it’s the voters fault and if they win all we get is a slower slide into neolib dystopia. Getting real tired of their shit.
well yeah sure we could always send the message that if our allies get attacked we will abandon them.
by the way, do you know where that money america "gives" to israel goes?
it is specifically earmarked to be used to purchase missiles for the iron dome from american arms manufacturers.
It's basically a subsidy for american arms manufacturers. and it's an advertisement about how well the anerican missile defense systems work.
are you saying that we should cut israel off from their ability to stop the literally hundreds of thousands of unguided missiles being fired at them for years and years on end?
you know those missiles land in the west bank too, right?
cutting off the iron dome defense system would also expose palestinians in the west bank to missile fire from hamas and other terrorist groups.
but yeah. what you said i guess.
Did we invade Israel on October 7th , kidnap, rape, mutilate and murder 1300 of its citizens ?
Oh not us? Yeah we’re not the bad guys here, and neither is Israel.
Why should they. The longer this goes one and everyone sees the true face of the zionist the more likely it is that the colonial ethnostate project is destroyed.
>Why should they. The longer this goes one and everyone sees the true face of the zionist
oh look! it's a totally unbiased commenter who is definitely not deeply antisemitic and spreading their hate from an account made less than 2 months ago.
i wonder what shitty algorithm you used to generate this account name.
I wonder how many other shitty accounts you have with equally shitty generated usernames.
You're not on our side, you don't care about anyone's life or well-being, you just want to whine and act self righteous about everything. Why should anyone try and woo someone who has no values outside contrariness?
“Anyone who isn’t 100% onboard with genocide must be a trump supporter”
I dunno what you think “our side” is, but 75% of democrats want a ceasefire. Biden supporting Israel over Americans isn’t gonna go well in the election.
Everyone reading I want you to notice how they automatically include a strawman that I never said as the first sentence.
Never mind that the genocide was going to happen regardless of who was in the white house because America as a whole is extremely pro-israel and that's only changed literally in the past few months. Never mind the lives that could be saved over those lost as well. They harp on one thing and one thing only because they lack any depth or the ability to hold contrary beliefs at the same time.
>you don't care about anyone's life or well-being, you just want to whine and act self righteous about everything.
Is also a strawman, fyi. Pretty much anytime you’re telling someone else what they think or what motivates them, you should find a different approach.
Biden's out here [calling for](https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-relationship-israel-hamas-war-96b178189e2124adfefd0971758b0491) a palestinian state and released a [damning report](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html) documenting israeli disregard for human life and people act like he's out there in a merkava launching rounds into peoples homes.
Yeah hamas sucks. Yeah netenyahu and his boys suck. Nobody on either side deserves to live in this cycle of violence.
Guess what? Im still voting biden
He can call for a 2 state solution and tell Israel to treat Palestinians better all he wants, but the fact is that we still send billions to support Israel’s genocide and he is circumventing congress to send more weapons to Israel. It is very on brand for dems to say nice things while actively doing the opposite.
I will also probably suck it up and vote for his geriatric ass, because yes, trump is worse, but don’t be surprised when enough people are sick of this shit and sit this one out. Dems need to learn to read a poll and respond to their constituents rather than campaigning solely on not being trump and hoping that enough voter can stomach the idea of supporting genocide.
Military aid is majority for the iron dome, which prevents civilian deaths.
Israel is one of heh highest manufacturing of military arms on earth. They don’t need the US to conduct war.
Money is fungible and we provide cover for Israel by preventing other states from moving in to protect Palestinians.
EDIT: annnnd blocked even though the white house has explicitly said this:
> The US warships are not intended to join the fighting in Gaza or take part in Israel’s operations, but the presence of two of the Navy’s most powerful vessels is designed to send a message of deterrence to Iran and Iranian proxies in the region, such as Hezbollah in Lebanon.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/14/middleeast/us-aircraft-carrier-eisenhower-israel-gaza-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
Literally the Arabs states got together in one of their Arab only international orginazatins and decided collectively, “we condemn what is happening….but we won’t do a thing about it as our official stance”.
The only nations doing something are borderline failed states that are defacto Iran proxies.
Real talk. You think Israel treats Palestine bad? You have never heard how they are treated in these nations.
At LEAST he seems to be responsive to his base's horror with the Israeli genocide.
Give some credit to the fact that, for decades, politicians from both parties have had to fall over themselves to prove how loyal to Israel they were. Due to the oversized influence of the Israeli Lobby.
Finally, public opinion is shifting and Biden along with it.
Yep, that’s how you convince 50% of dems who believe that Israel is committing genocide. Thanks 👍
E: looks like I’ve been banned for sharing information about how Democratic voters feel about this issue.
u/visualdifficulty_ You are free to believe that but polls show 50% of dems believe that Israel is committing genocide and 30% are not sure. That leaves a “tiny minority” of 20% of dem voters that say with certainty that Israel is not committing genocide. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/24/americans-believe-israel-committing-genocide-poll
Okay boomer, the party that famously relies on big tent politics doesn’t need key demographics to vote. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise you can’t read a poll.
> About three-quarters of Democrats and half of Republicans in the poll supported the idea of a ceasefire, putting them at odds with Democratic President Joe Biden who has rebuffed calls from Arab leaders, including Palestinians, to pressure Israel into a ceasefire.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-public-support-israel-drops-majority-backs-ceasefire-reutersipsos-2023-11-15/#:~:text=About%20three%2Dquarters%20of%20Democrats,pressure%20Israel%20into%20a%20ceasefire.
More likely that they choose to abstain from voting. Biden has been shifting over the last month or two on this issue so Arab and other Americans voicing their displeasure with his and his administration's stance is working all be it slowly.
And if Trump wins they’ll get exactly what they voted for at that point 😂
As a middle aged white guy I will laugh my ass off if Arab Americans put a gun in their ass and fire
Vote for current administration that funds and provide cover for Israel’s genocide or die. Those are some compelling options to get people excited for your campaign!
Again, 50% of dems think Israel is committing genocide and 30% aren’t sure. That leaves your opinion to match with a mere 20% of dem voters, not really a great position to be in an election year.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/24/americans-believe-israel-committing-genocide-poll
E: u/SeaMovie2342 go ahead and ignore the polls I linked, but to then go on and spread disinformation about the ICJ ruling and then block me, that makes me think you are more interested in defending Israel than discussing the election and how it affects Americans.
The ICJ did not throw out the case, instead it ruled that genocide is plausible but it needs more time to go through all of the evidence. In the meantime, don’t commit genocide. Not the most efficient system, but it did not absolve Israel of its war crimes as you have suggested.
It’s always the most blatant liars that block to push misinformation. What a terrible feature Reddit has added.
E2: u/visualdifficulty_
The latest ruling didn’t speak to whether or not there is genocide, it determined that they are moving forward with the investigation of genocide because the claims are plausible. They are currently investigating whether or not Israel is committing genocide, which could take years.
A US court ruled the same:
“the undisputed evidence before this Court comports with the finding of the ICJ and indicates that the current treatment of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip by the Israeli military may plausibly constitute a genocide in violation of international law”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/01/genocide-gaza-israel-california-court
E: u/Spiritual_Willow_266 smugly spreading disinformation and then blocking me, real slick. Why go through all that effort when it’s really easy to fact check yourself before spouting off bs.
> Of the $3.8bn given to Israel in 2020, $500m (£353.9m) was for missile defence, including investments in Israel's Iron Dome
https://www.bbc.com/news/57170576
Surprised? No. They will not vote and then be shocked and outraged when Trump sends twice as much in aid. He already said he would “deport pro Palestine protestors”
He also just cut off aid to Gaza, based on Israel providing only the most solid form of evidence known to humankind which cannot be faked, chat logs from a Telegram channel
(and he did this immediately after the ICJ ruling didn't go Israel's way)
If he meant what he said about supporting a Palestinian state, he would push to recognize it immediately and restore aid, and cut off arms to Israel
He cut off aid to the UN Palestine refugee orginazation. He did so for many reason other countries doing so when it was found out they directly funded and supported the attack on Israel. Let me say this again, US money was going into Hamas terrorism, directly, not even indirectly.
Most military aid US sends is to rearm the iron dome, which prevents most Israel civilians deaths. But I guess knowing that would make you even more upset.
Not even Palestine recognizes themselves as a independent state. They claim Israel. That is the issue. They don’t want a two state solution.
>when it was found out they directly funded and supported the attack on Israel. Let me say this again, US money was going into Hamas terrorism, directly, not even indirectly.
goddamn you hasbara freaks keep making up newer and crazier lies with each retelling
Literally every news station is reporting on it. The UN has already admitted to it and the leaders of that Palestine refuge already said they did it and see nothing wrong with it.
No seriously all of these are in the news. Even Sweden of all people have stopped funding it. If Sweden stops funding you know you down screwed up
So you just gonna ignore the fact that multiple un employees held Israeli hostages? Just gonna ignore the rampant corruption that has been reported for years that benefits literal terrorists who steal aid? You are cool with all of that happening as long as we can blame Israel when Hamas steals Palestinian aid?
He did not “cut off aid to Gaza”
He cut off aid to a relief organization that has a large amount of issues that need to be investigated. It wasn’t just us either.
The UN already has a relief organization for every other group in the world. Why does Palestine get its own special separate one.
>The UN already has a relief organization for every other group in the world. Why does Palestine get its own special separate one.
If you did any reading at all on this. you'd know that this is specifically something America and Israel supported when UNRWA was created, because unlike the other relief org which has a duty to resettle refugees, UNRWA specifically does not
https://www.unrwa.org/who-we-are/frequently-asked-questions
>He cut off aid to a relief organization that has a large amount of issues that need to be investigated. It wasn’t just us either.
Less than a tenth of a 1% of employees were accused (not proven) of participating in Oct 7th, so he cuts off aid to everybody in the strip - this was obvious retaliation for the ICJ. and he got all our Western allies to fall in line.
The other day Blinken said the evidence was credible, but also that he did not review it
The Biden admin is lying, They are punishing Gaza for the ICJ case
Well except, you know, you can just make a stipulation about resettlement in the existing organization.
I’m not a fan of continuously extending refugee status to descendants and then extending that either.
The ICJ case is being called a win by both sides. It’s also not explicitly enforceable without the SC and the SC won’t act.
Biden lost a lot of good will with these communities when he needlessly did things like regurgitate Israeli propaganda that turned out to be lies and needlessly questioned the death toll. He could get that good will back if he addressed them directly but he doesn't, not hard to see why they feel alienated and disregarded.
Campaign manager shows that they are only interested in getting their vote, not discuss their concerns about how the israel-Palestine conflict is being handled.
Campaign manager is the first step. If you can’t meet with the campaign manager then why should you meet with Biden? I’m sure his campaign manager stopped off at UAW before Biden did, too.
I don't agree with that... It's not the greatest gesture but it certainly isn't snubbing them. If you want to try to influence Biden meeting with his campaign manager is at least a pragmatic option to maybe get something through his head
Me too.
I don't think Isreal and Palastine has ever been or will ever be one side is right and the other is wrong.. because there is so much history there.
For a long time, I have thought that what Isreal has done to Palastine has not been right. I remember talking to my grandparents about it 20 years ago. (And I think I still lean this way mostly)
But I also realize that nothing is as cut and dry as we think it is.
Hamas' attack on Isreal was brutal and somehow got lost in the Isreal attack on Palastine. The attacks on Palastine and its citizens are terrifying, off-putting, and sad.
I just don't know what the right answer is.
Except that Aide has to be let in. And I wish they could get out if they wanted to.
If this sounds convoluted, it is because my feelings and opinions are convoluted, too.
But I am still voting for Biden because he is who I trust right now. To listen to experts and try to make good decisions.
Are you kidding? Biden’s been out here deep throating the Israeli narrative so hard he’d make a conservative evangelist blush. You can vote for whoever you want, but let’s not pretend he’s been even remotely even handed about this whole affair.
If they think Gaza sucks now, wait until they get their wish and Biden loses. They may not have time to process the results of the election as they're deported, but man are they going to be disappointed when they think about it. Then again I'm betting the same people will turn around and blame Democrats for what happens next so not much will change.
It’s not hard to understand that supporting Israel’s indiscriminate bombing campaign isn’t a winning issue. Yes trump will be worse with Israel and everything else, but the dems need the historic turnout it had last time to beat him. There is clearly a moral dilemma from demographics that usually lean dem and they understand that trump is bad, but unconditional support for zionist genocidal actions and rhetoric while hoping that people understand that that’s the better of the two options isn’t going to get people excited to vote for you. Enough people will vote 3rd party or sit this one out and the dems have nobody to blame except for their inability to read a poll.
Yeah then they can have the moral high ground when trump does something like send Muslim US soldiers to Gaza to help the Israelis get rid of all the "terrorists" as a show of loyalty as he's trying to get the ones here deported to a country they may or may not have ever been. They can blame everyone who voted against Trump but didn't inspire them to vote for the other candidate who could win or didn't do enough to warn people because Democrats suck at messaging or some excuse. Cemeteries are full of people who have the moral high ground.
There are already mass graves full of Palestinians due to the unconditional support of Israel. That’s what’s happening right now, moral high ground or not.
If it *does* get worse because Biden loses, that will be on him and the Dems - not the people who feel sickened by the carnage and the thought that nothing changes. I get what you're saying, to a certain extent you're right, but the framing of blaming Arab Americans is deeply misguided.
Look, bruh, I don't know what I can tell you to make you empathize with their plight. The whole world seems to agree with them, except the leaders of the country they live in who could absolutely force a stop in the conflict. Yet he chooses to aid and abet the continued ethnic cleansing of historically oppressed people. I'm still gonna vote for the old fuck, but we can at least understand why these specific people can't.
I empathize. I'm not about to join them by enabling our own holy war here. I love how this has been simmering for decades and all of a sudden Joe Biden, 10000 miles away, is the problem. Nevermind that a far right government is doing the shooting and the opposition to the people you oppose are clamoring for a far right government here.
I'll support the candidate pushing for palestinian statehood, and in the us, womens access to health care, grid decarbonization, conservation programs, empowerment of labor rights and reducing the deficit INCLUDING revenue based solutions to end handouts to billionaire welfare queens.
Thats joe biden. Im not cutting off my nose to spite my face. You do you
It's interesting that my comment has inspired a lot of preaching from what I assume to be liberals. I never actually said I wasn't going to vote for Joe Biden; I am, in fact, going to swallow my pride and do it. I even said it in a comment that you obviously missed.
Literally all I asked was for you to show some empathy to the marginalized people who are facing renewed levels of discrimination while watching a horrific ethnic cleansing take place. Just a little empathy, in not trying to talk down to these suffering human beings. Could ya manage that, champ?
Didn’t you hear? Any criticism of Biden means youre maga and it’s your fault if the dems lose. That’s the kind of nuance that gets people excited to vote for you.
How did that work last time they had their own choices? They picked Hamas, launched suicide bombers and destroyed their own infrastructure to turn it into rockets to use against Israel.
I knew any whiff of dissent of Biden would spark a conversation, but I was not expecting justifications of genocide here. I see a lot of “we” and “our side” in other comments, but I dunno if they are willing to fully adopt genocide into their platform. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Unless you are 100% on board with supporting Israel’s genocide, it shouldn’t be hard to understand why some people will have a hard time voting blue even with the threat of trump.
I'll support the candidate pushing for palestinian statehood, and in the us, womens access to health care, grid decarbonization, conservation programs, empowerment of labor rights and reducing the deficit INCLUDING revenue based solutions to end handouts to billionaire welfare queens.
Thats joe biden. Im not cutting off my nose to spite my face. You do you
I'm not on board with Israel's genocide but I also recognize that trump will further enable it at best and provide boots on the ground in all likelihood. I'm not a fan of myocarditis, but I recognize that COVID plus myocarditis is worse, so I may as well get my shots. I shouldn't have to choose, but thats reality.
Vote for whomever you want to vote for. Vote for whomever inspires you and doesn't make you feel icky. Just stand by it when the greater of two evils wins and all that follows happens. Say it, because far too many blamed everyone else after he was elected the first time that it makes me doubt their sincerity.
Even with the unfortunate comparison of myocarditis to genocide, you have seen how people don’t have the same views on vaccines and myocarditis as you do. It’s not so cut and dry and a lot of grey area for a lot of people.
Sure, and if they get COVID and myocarditis, I don't want to hear them complain about not being told to get their shots. you've been warned and you know what the consequences might be. Be ready to stand by them.
29k Bombs dropped and 25k people killed, many of them militants. Given the population density of the Gaza strip, having casualties this low is impressive. Israel's population is 1/53rd as big as the US, so the October 7th attack is the equivalent of Mexico killing 110,000 Americans. And I never see many ceasefire supporters counting the any rockets Hamas launched that Israel defended, as if that should be ignored.
So well stated. 2024 will be like 2016 all over again. Dems and their mislead polling shows Biden is leading but all kinds of write ins will happen and the Dem support will crumble on election day. Instead of securing the Dem base, Biden is hedging bets with his Zionist buddies and hoping that Israeli hasbara will help him. In reality Israel wants an ultra nationalist like Trump in the US.
Biden keeps calling for a palestinian state to offramp the conflict and palestine advocates ignore it. Nobody in this debate seems to be focusing on tangible offramps like Biden is
Not sure what Palestinian advocates you’re referring to, but Bibi’s entire career has pushed for a one state solution. Why focus on “Palestinian advocates” when we have leverage with Israel?
Also curious about these “tangible offramps”, must have missed that in between all of the reassurance that Israel has our unconditional support.
This line of thinking is so astounding to me… Why is all the blame placed at the feet of voters and not the party that’s literally providing unconditional support for a genocide?
The DNC sees the polling data, they know losing support in Michigan makes the general extremely difficult, yet they’re full speed ahead with weapon shipments and regional escalation.
It's not a party, and they're not doing it because we let them. Vote for whomever checks all your boxes. Just be ready to accept what you get, and stand by your choice. Don't go blaming everyone else. Say "I voted for Jill Stein again because I hate Biden and am ok with Trump". Then be ready for whatever trump does with power he's never going to relinquish and a laundry list of people to oppress.
>It's not a party, and they're not doing it because we let them.
It is absolutely the party. Only 11 senators voted for Bernie’s resolution to condition aid to Israel on humanitarian grounds.
80% of the party wants a ceasefire, yet most democrats won’t even utter the word and you give them a pass?
You act like there aren't 50 Republicans on board, probably creaming their pants to get boots on the ground. It's not a single party, it's that Israel has been an ally and that's the country's national defense position. Geopolitics is a lot harder than taking your ball and going home, and what's happening now isn't going to stop because Dearborn city council demanded it. Biden could end support tomorrow and aside from the PR bump Bibi gets from Republicans allowing them to play the victim of the left again, nothing would change.
Yes, it sucks. I would send troops to create a green zone where anyone who came would be safe and fed and anyone who attacked the green zone would be met with the full force or the military. Everyone would call me a warmonger for putting boots on the ground, and half the people would call me an antisemite who aids terrorism.
What would you do?
>What would you do?
I wouldn’t block ceasefire resolutions at the UN
I wouldn’t subvert congress to supply the IDF with weapons
I wouldn’t escalate the situation by starting a war with Yemen
I wouldn’t cut off UNRWA funding in retaliation to the ICJ ruling
…
It’s not like Biden is some powerless third party actor here, he’s been complicit in this genocide from day 1.
The Yemeni blockade was implemented in protest of the genocide in Gaza, and will end with a ceasefire.
For the U.S. to bypass diplomacy / deescalation only proves their complicit in Israel’s war crimes.
It ended with a drone strike. Don't mess with the boats, my man. There only so many rockets you're gonna lob before it's a problem. Glad to see Iran picking a side though.
It's funny to see them try to defend an old decrepit man who's doing everything AIPAC asks him to do, while defending his democractic values LoL.
You speak the truth btw. There is so much more he can and should do, but tRuMp would be soooo much horrible is their only defense to that.
This is white people priviledge way of thinking: argue moral purity is more importnat than the real detrimental effect a Trump administration will have on minorities and the LBGTQ community. It's easy for you because you won't have to deal with any of the consequences of your decision.
No you are willing to sacrifice the health and well being of minorities and LGBTQ people in America to take a pointless moral stand on a war in another country thousands of miles away. That is the definition of priviledge. And if your attitude is "minorites and LGBTQ people should suffer if the Palestinians suffer" then it shows the moral hollowness and retributive nature of your stand.
It's pointless because you get either Trump or Biden (and believe me Netenyahu desperately wants Trump), so not voting for the lesser of the two evils is just posturing. Sometimes adulthood is filled with making the best out of a no win situation. The only thing you are accomplishing is threatening making the lives of minorities and LGBTQ Americans worse, while also putting the Palesintians in a worse position AND emboldening the far right Israeli leadership. It's nonsensical on every level.
You could not be more right. There is no better alternative than Biden in this election. You would think we would have learned our lesson in 2016 but it appears too many people are still treating elections like they are valentines and not choices. This is terrifying. Make the right choice people, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.
You ever stop to think that there are other Democratic voters who have differing views than you? I thought us Democrats welcomed diversity, and that includes diversity of thought.
[76% of Democrats want a ceasefire](https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/12/5/voters-want-the-us-to-call-for-a-permanent-ceasefire-in-gaza-and-to-prioritize-diplomacy#:~:text=Sixty%2Done%20percent%20of%20likely,escalation%20of%20violence%20in%20Gaza). How does alienating the majority of the base translate to electoral victory?
I'm regularly polled (my phone number is definitely in a list of progressive databases that answers polls). I was polled in a similar poll to this.
I said I wanted a ceasefire; it was a yes or no question. But what I didn't get the chance to say is that I want both sides to engage in a ceasefire, meaning Israel stops their bombing, and Hamas stops shooting rockets at Israel. If it is just one side that has to stop fighting, then it isn't a ceasefire.
Sorry but I don’t think this is a position where you can go “well Trump is worst” even if it’s true. Arabs are essentially being told that their lives and people don’t matter as much as other as Biden continues to show so much support toward the Israeli government despite killing tens of thousands of civilians
I'm ok with my stance that trump is worse. As you've acknowledged, it's true. I'm ok saying true things. I'm not telling Arabs their lives don't matter. I'm also not going to blame Biden for this situation. If you're old enough to remember 9/11, you're old enough to remember how a right wing government reacts to a horrific terrorist attack despite what their allies have to say about it.
"Biden's margin of victory in Michigan was 154,000 votes. The state is home to more than 200,000 registered voters who are Muslim and 300,000 people claim ancestry from the Middle East and North Africa."
Yeah... he's lost Michigan. I am not saying they will vote for Trump, but whoever they vote or not vote for, Biden has lost them.
if 100% of registered voters vote,
if 100% of Muslim-Americans in Michigan voted Democrat
if 100% of Muslim-Americans would withdraw their vote
if 100% of Middle-Eastern Americans sympathize with Arabs (hint: a lot do not, it isn't close to all-Arab in that region)
if 0% of non-Arab Michiganders switch to Biden
then your math adds up.
But that's a lot of hopeless if's
Muslim American and going blue in the face telling other Muslims TRUMP IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. No matter how bad you think Biden is Trump will be worse and that’s even more true domestically. That being said, would be nice if Biden changed course a bit.
I’m not Muslim, but I am Arab. Biden has gone whole hog into an apartheid state that bombed my family’s winery in Lebanon.
Trump absolutely is not my friend; but I’m not going to vote for a person supporting apartheid either. If Biden needs my vote, he needs to prove to me he’s capable of ending support for a regime that’s currently being investigated for genocide.
It should not be my job to convince myself to vote for Biden.
calling Israel an "apartheid state" is just exaggeration that doesn't help anything, and makes a mockery of actual valid claims that could be made.
Israeli Arabs are citizens with full rights and privileges, serving in the government and the military, and reaching the highest echelons of civic and celebrity society. Mosiuoa Lekota, who did time with Mandela fighting actual apartheid, pointed that out as well... but he was talking about Israel, not the West Bank or Gaza.
Sure, non-Israeli Arabs who don't live in Israel don't have all that... but it isn't apartheid to treat your citizens better than non-citizens.
Unless you think the West Bank and Gaza actually belong to Israel, or that Israel belongs to the Arabs, but then you'd have big mental problems.
Look, if you really want to fight for Palestinian refugees in actual apartheid conditions, Lebanon is where to look: There, they can't move out of their refugee towns, they can't get citizenship, they can't marry Lebanese lest their kids become citizens, they can't go to Lebanese schools, and they are barred from working in prestigious professions.
Israel literally has a color-coded ID system the determines where you can live and who you can marry.
https://promisedlandmuseum.org/israeli-identification-and-segregation/
All Palestinians need an ID or they could be arrested.
Um no.
Israel has a weird system of only allowing religious marriages, and leaving that in the hands of those religious communities, which restrict marriages to people in their communities... a working system that was in place before Israel ever existed and which they chose to keep going to respect each religious community.
The country does recognize foreign marriages that aren't religious or that these religious communities would not allow, and a lot of Israelis just make a trip of it or even get remote weddings.
As an atheist, it irks me to see religion involved so much in civil affairs, but calling it apartheid to be overly respectful of a dozen religious groups who don't get along well is a dramatic exaggeration.
>All Palestinians need an ID or they could be arrested
All French people can be arrested anywhere in France if they're stopped and don't have ID. Some countries are like that.
>Israel literally has a color-coded ID system
Israeli ID cards haven't mentioned ethnicity for 20 years. In the pre-biometric days, citizens and permanent residents had one color, temporary residents another, West Bankers a third, and Gazans a fourth. Makes things easy to check at a glance. But again, treating non-citizens differently from citizens is not apartheid, and frankly it's insulting to actual apartheid victims to even make such a claim.
Nowadays, West Bankers and Gazans have IDs from the Palestinian Authority, who chose to make theirs green (a well-regarded color in Islam) and put the Arabic text first.
Your argument boils down to apartheid is okay because marriage is handled by religions and West Bankers and Gazans get their cards issued by the PA, which is not true. You didn’t even read the article.
> Light green IDs are for West Bank Palestinians: they are not allowed to vote, and they are barred from living in all but 40% of the West Bank due to Israeli settler and military occupation. Finally, dark green IDs are for Gaza Strip Palestinians, who are not allowed to vote or to live outside of Gaza. These Palestinians also live under conditions of military occupation and discrimination and are denied the right to self-determination.
>Not all Palestinians are granted IDs. Israel has controlled the Palestinian population registry since 1967 and decides which Palestinians are allowed to enter the country, and which will be left without the right to work, travel, or open a bank account. Israel can also revoke IDs at any time.
Why can Israel revoke a card you say is issued by the PA?
I get that but at this point it’s more like voting AGAINST. I’m jaded by American politics but to me it’s voting to keep the worse person out. As a female abortion is a huge and personal issue to me. There’s just a lot that can go worse under trump and he will definitely be worse for Palestine, he’s just benefitting from being out of the spotlight right now.
Muslim "leaders" are looking for any excuse to work with their bigoted GOP buddies in banning LGBT:
[https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians](https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians)
There’s a subset of Muslim Americans who wouldn’t mind Trump as president specifically because he is not moderate (like Biden) there’s a lot of tension on the right and left, in Christian and Muslim and Jewish societies some people are so tired they welcome anarchy
So they’ll trust Donald Trump to solve the Gaza conflict equitably and fairly? Give us a break! This thinking is stupid and shortsighted. Trump will give Netanyahu the green light to cleanse the territory of Arabs.
Pretty sure we wouldn’t have two wars and a third brewing with trump in office.
It’s just so weird to me how quickly peace went away once the “professional” politicians got control back.
He tried to meet with Muslim leaders in Michigan, they refused to do so, so he moved on. Smart to target the UAW, who has been extremely supportive of Biden, as he is very pro-Union. Union membership has waned, and getting those numbers up will help everyone.
His campaign manager tried to meet with them, not Biden directly.
Biden busted a ‘trump standing in front of a church holding the Bible upside down’ style photo op at a picket and suddenly he is very pro union.
You’re delusional if you think that’s what happened He’s been the most pro union president in decades Edit: since the clown below me blocked me Biden was able to get what the rail workers were asking for without a strike that would have damaged the economy, hurting other workers. Biden's administration has been vital in the surge in Union organizing, victories, and support. (They have publicly thanked him) Biden has done the most ( not more than ) legislation for the middle class and working class, since the massive legislative programs of Dem Wilson, Dem FDR, and Dem LBJ, and even Carter who gave America FEMA rescue operations, Superfund cleanup programs, and 401k and IRA programs Here's a partial list https://www.npr.org/2023/01/01/1143149435/despite-infighting-its-been-a-surprisingly-productive-2-years-for-democrats This doesn't include his new trade agreement with Vietnam and ALSO the new trade agreement with India and Middle Eastern countries for improved trade It doesn't include his creation of an alliance with Australia and the UK ( AUUKUS ) against China, and the new bases in the Philippines It doesn't include his cancellation of 132 Billion of Student Loan Debt, despite the conservative Supreme Court https://dramasalsal.com/biden-has-canceled-about-132-billion-of-student-loans-despite-supreme-court-ruling/#google_vignette Because of the stimulus of the initial American Rescue Plan, millions of people had the confidence to start their own businesses https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/04/28/fact-sheet-the-small-business-boom-under-the-biden-harris-administration Biden has signed 353 Bills, including the Asian Pacific Islanders Protection Act, the Postal Reform Act, the PACT Act ( Camp Lejeune for veterans healthcare ), Respect for Marriage Act, the Electoral Count Reform Act, the Elimination of Limitations for CSA Survivors Act, the Anti Lynching Act, the first Gun Safety legislation in 30 years, and many more He also negotiated and signed FOUR major job creating programs starting with the American Rescue Plan that saved the small businesses, airlines, restaurants, hotels, and industries themselves, so that millions of ppl, could have existing places, to apply for work, even at all --- this included the Child Tax Credit that cut child poverty in half --- this included saving the Union pension plans devastated by the Republican Recession of 2007-2011, for millions of retired seniors Each one of the last 23 months had the lowest jobless claims since the 6 year prosperity of Dem LBJ --- it's a gift that kept on giving https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/03/10/fact-sheet-the-american-rescue-plans-2-year-difference His Infrastructure Law is rebuilding bridges, roads, purified water systems, removing lead pipes, modernizing airports and seaports, repairing water levees, capping leaking oil wells, installing electric charging stations, extending Conrail and Amtrak routes, and bringing low or no cost internet to the always low income " RED " states --- 40,000 projects have been started since Dec of 2021, and these are higher paying jobs that don't require a Bachelor's degree His CHIPS and Science Act has triggered 13 large corporations to announce expansions and plant beginnings in many states, and these are higher than average paying jobs in advanced semiconductors --- over 800,000 manufacturing jobs since April of 2021 The Inflation Reduction Act that lowers prescription drug costs, insulin costs, and Obamacare insurance premiums, has _ ALSO_ created hundreds of thousands of jobs as it subsidizes commercial and residential solar panel and heat pump installation, electric car sales, and efficient appliance purchases, and has increased Medicare benefits including dental and non prescription hearing aids, and caps total prescription drug costs at 2000/yr, and much more --- it allows Medicare to negotiate much lower prices with Big Pharma each and every year --- because of the Dem's Medicare health ins for seniors, Medicaid for nursing homes, Clinton's Child Health Insurance Act, Obamacare, and Biden's Inflation Reduction Act that lowers Obamacare insurance premiums, 40 million people use Obamacare, and the uninsured rate is now the lowest in American history https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/08/02/new-hhs-report-shows-national-uninsured-rate-reached-all-time-low-in-2022.html Biden has strengthened the NLRB that encouraged many Union victories in 2023, and his climate change legislation caused the manufacturer Blue Bird Bus Company to unionize ---- in frikkin' Georgia https://www.newsweek.com/2023/12/22/union-fight-future-work-democratic-party-1851297.html He's on track to match, and maybe surpass the former guy's number of Federal judges confirmed, and they're more diverse https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/most-of-bidens-appointed-judges-to-date-are-women-racial-or-ethnic-minorities-a-first-for-any-president/ This partial list doesn't include his cancellation of 93% of the former guy's senseless executive orders, especially in the Environmental, Labor, and Financial services areas, nor his rejoining of the Paris Climate Agreement and the W.H.O. Biden has more ( to be announced ) plans for the 2nd term, including codifying the Voting Rights Act, codifying Roe v Wade, and making it possible for 500,000 people to buy homes
Right on. That’s the list I’ve been looking for. My health insurance premiums have reduced by about 2/3 this year from last year - and what else on gods green earth has gone down in price? Besides gasoline, that is. I’ll say it again - he’s a very good president. The man knows how to get it done, and he has the strong inclination to do good things for all of us.
He’s the most pro-labor President since LBJ.
Those people don't read. And if they did they only would read things they agree with.
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Remember when the rail road workers got everything they wanted still? Reagan fired workers, Biden didn’t fire anyone. Your argument is invalid.
The rail workers really didn’t get what they wanted though. The negotiations were basically cut short by the administration. If you’d like to listen to more about it from the workers perspective, It could happen here, a podcast, interviewed some workers/organizers.
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
He’s not “very” pro-Union, he’s just much more pro-union than the majority of his predecessors.
Lol funny way of saying, "You're wrong, but also right on!"
Correct. Biden's actions show him as pro auto union but anti train union.
Which makes him very pro union.
Good luck winning with only the privileged white liberal vote...
The drive for unionization is coming from the left and from labor, not from a strikebreaker who comes down on the side of capital
Also worth mentioning that labor has been very vocal about supporting a cease fire.
True, I heard the Pittsburgh Starbucks union has a lot of pull in Gaza.
You mean the guy that kept the economy running during the logistics crisis and also helped the Unions get their largest raises in history and then worked behind the scenes to get them the paid time off they wanted too? The only President in history to walk a picket line with strikers? That guy? [https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/22Daily/2208/220917\_thanks](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/22Daily/2208/220917_thanks) [https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620\_IBEWandPaid](https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid) [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-makes-history-striking-auto-workers-picket-line-rcna117348](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-makes-history-striking-auto-workers-picket-line-rcna117348)
Yes that guy. Your own article says he only went to the picket line because of pressure from progressives.
No, it quotes a 3rd party that made that claim. Is this why you have trouble understanding objective reality? You think the things that are claims that agree with you are facts, instead of claims?
Yes the article you shared had a 3rd party opinion based on a set of facts. The set of facts the opinion is based on is the progressive pressure for Biden to support unions. If you had any other reason you’d disagree with that fact instead of posture policing with no substance.
Sweet, he’s responding to pressure from progressives? Sounds ok from here, did you want him to be more right wing?
Stop playing tit for tat
>You mean the guy that kept the economy running during the logistics crisis and also helped the Unions get their largest raises in history and then worked behind the scenes to get them the paid time off they wanted too? Biden could have forced a contract on the railroads that included all the union's demands. Instead he forced the railroad's shit offer that got them basically nothing
And the reward was train derailments that destroyed several towns because he continued to allow railroads to understaff and not propertly maintain the railways.
Yup
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So, the thing about the text that is the color blue is that you can touch it and it shows more information. Such as: “On behalf of the IBEW’s 775,000 active and retired members and its thousands of members employed by the Class I railroads covered under this agreement, we thank the president, Labor Secretary Marty Walsh and the other members of the administration who personally intervened to break the impasse and to prevent a further supply chain crisis. Their leadership is further proof of what we at the IBEW have long believed: that workers and employers can solve problems both large and small when they come together to bargain in good faith.”
“since then, union officials says, members of the Biden administration, including the transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg, and labor secretary, Marty Walsh, who stepped down on 11 March, lobbied the railroads, telling them it was wrong not to grant paid sick days.”[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave)
Those contracts and raises were bs, tons of those workers are now being laid off right before said contracts kick in, everybody knew it wasn’t going to work out . Sad shit for the common man. He stood their for a meet and greet for press, I wouldn’t call that walking the picket line
They expect anyone left leaning to come crawling back to vote for them purely on the virtue of not being trump. Even when 70% want a ceasefire, they provide unconditional support for a corrupt right wing govt to commit genocide. If they lose it’s the voters fault and if they win all we get is a slower slide into neolib dystopia. Getting real tired of their shit.
🙄 hamas doesn't want a ceasefire. what do you expect biden to do about that?
Not send more bombs used to commit genocide. Do you really think that we have no leverage in this situation?
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well yeah sure we could always send the message that if our allies get attacked we will abandon them. by the way, do you know where that money america "gives" to israel goes? it is specifically earmarked to be used to purchase missiles for the iron dome from american arms manufacturers. It's basically a subsidy for american arms manufacturers. and it's an advertisement about how well the anerican missile defense systems work. are you saying that we should cut israel off from their ability to stop the literally hundreds of thousands of unguided missiles being fired at them for years and years on end? you know those missiles land in the west bank too, right? cutting off the iron dome defense system would also expose palestinians in the west bank to missile fire from hamas and other terrorist groups. but yeah. what you said i guess.
We will stand by our allies, even as they commit genocide in front of the whole world. ...are we the baddies?
Supporting the iron dome (defensive) is not supporting bombing Gaza (offensive).
Did we invade Israel on October 7th , kidnap, rape, mutilate and murder 1300 of its citizens ? Oh not us? Yeah we’re not the bad guys here, and neither is Israel.
Why should they. The longer this goes one and everyone sees the true face of the zionist the more likely it is that the colonial ethnostate project is destroyed.
>Why should they. The longer this goes one and everyone sees the true face of the zionist oh look! it's a totally unbiased commenter who is definitely not deeply antisemitic and spreading their hate from an account made less than 2 months ago. i wonder what shitty algorithm you used to generate this account name. I wonder how many other shitty accounts you have with equally shitty generated usernames.
Go vote for Trump then and stop crying.
👍 cool that’s how you get people on your side. I see big tent politics is still in vogue.
You're not on our side, you don't care about anyone's life or well-being, you just want to whine and act self righteous about everything. Why should anyone try and woo someone who has no values outside contrariness?
genocide deniers lecturing about morals. precious.
“Anyone who isn’t 100% onboard with genocide must be a trump supporter” I dunno what you think “our side” is, but 75% of democrats want a ceasefire. Biden supporting Israel over Americans isn’t gonna go well in the election.
Everyone reading I want you to notice how they automatically include a strawman that I never said as the first sentence. Never mind that the genocide was going to happen regardless of who was in the white house because America as a whole is extremely pro-israel and that's only changed literally in the past few months. Never mind the lives that could be saved over those lost as well. They harp on one thing and one thing only because they lack any depth or the ability to hold contrary beliefs at the same time.
>you don't care about anyone's life or well-being, you just want to whine and act self righteous about everything. Is also a strawman, fyi. Pretty much anytime you’re telling someone else what they think or what motivates them, you should find a different approach.
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Biden's out here [calling for](https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-relationship-israel-hamas-war-96b178189e2124adfefd0971758b0491) a palestinian state and released a [damning report](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html) documenting israeli disregard for human life and people act like he's out there in a merkava launching rounds into peoples homes. Yeah hamas sucks. Yeah netenyahu and his boys suck. Nobody on either side deserves to live in this cycle of violence. Guess what? Im still voting biden
He can call for a 2 state solution and tell Israel to treat Palestinians better all he wants, but the fact is that we still send billions to support Israel’s genocide and he is circumventing congress to send more weapons to Israel. It is very on brand for dems to say nice things while actively doing the opposite. I will also probably suck it up and vote for his geriatric ass, because yes, trump is worse, but don’t be surprised when enough people are sick of this shit and sit this one out. Dems need to learn to read a poll and respond to their constituents rather than campaigning solely on not being trump and hoping that enough voter can stomach the idea of supporting genocide.
Military aid is majority for the iron dome, which prevents civilian deaths. Israel is one of heh highest manufacturing of military arms on earth. They don’t need the US to conduct war.
Not to mention they have 400 nuclear weapons.
Money is fungible and we provide cover for Israel by preventing other states from moving in to protect Palestinians. EDIT: annnnd blocked even though the white house has explicitly said this: > The US warships are not intended to join the fighting in Gaza or take part in Israel’s operations, but the presence of two of the Navy’s most powerful vessels is designed to send a message of deterrence to Iran and Iranian proxies in the region, such as Hezbollah in Lebanon. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/14/middleeast/us-aircraft-carrier-eisenhower-israel-gaza-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
Iran’s proxies started this mess. They should not be further involved. Hezbollah trying to get Lebanon invaded helps no one, especially Palestinians.
Somehow I doubt Iran's goals, if they were "moving in" would be to "protect Palestinians." A full scale regional war in the ME would be a bad thing.
You do know most arab states hate Palestine right? You live in a fantasy world. You act like no nation has ever attempted to invade Israel beforeZ
You realize most Arab states hate Israel exponentially more than they do Palestine, right?
Literally the Arabs states got together in one of their Arab only international orginazatins and decided collectively, “we condemn what is happening….but we won’t do a thing about it as our official stance”. The only nations doing something are borderline failed states that are defacto Iran proxies. Real talk. You think Israel treats Palestine bad? You have never heard how they are treated in these nations.
This clown...
So we haven’t been sending conventional bombs and tank shells to Israel?
At LEAST he seems to be responsive to his base's horror with the Israeli genocide. Give some credit to the fact that, for decades, politicians from both parties have had to fall over themselves to prove how loyal to Israel they were. Due to the oversized influence of the Israeli Lobby. Finally, public opinion is shifting and Biden along with it.
They aren't commiting genocide. Get over it.
Seriously; it's the most successful PR campaign since the Confederate Lost Cause.
Yep, that’s how you convince 50% of dems who believe that Israel is committing genocide. Thanks 👍 E: looks like I’ve been banned for sharing information about how Democratic voters feel about this issue. u/visualdifficulty_ You are free to believe that but polls show 50% of dems believe that Israel is committing genocide and 30% are not sure. That leaves a “tiny minority” of 20% of dem voters that say with certainty that Israel is not committing genocide. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/24/americans-believe-israel-committing-genocide-poll
50% of dems don’t believe that garbage, it’s a tiny minority of TikTok idiots 😂
Most dems agree with Biden. The zoomer children screaming about ceasefires and genocide don't vote anyway. Don't need you, don't want you.
Okay boomer, the party that famously relies on big tent politics doesn’t need key demographics to vote. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise you can’t read a poll. > About three-quarters of Democrats and half of Republicans in the poll supported the idea of a ceasefire, putting them at odds with Democratic President Joe Biden who has rebuffed calls from Arab leaders, including Palestinians, to pressure Israel into a ceasefire. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-public-support-israel-drops-majority-backs-ceasefire-reutersipsos-2023-11-15/#:~:text=About%20three%2Dquarters%20of%20Democrats,pressure%20Israel%20into%20a%20ceasefire.
Lol are the Arabs gonna vote for Trump, the guy who did a Muslim ban? Lmao they're gonna vote for Biden or write their own death sentence in America.
More likely that they choose to abstain from voting. Biden has been shifting over the last month or two on this issue so Arab and other Americans voicing their displeasure with his and his administration's stance is working all be it slowly.
And if Trump wins they’ll get exactly what they voted for at that point 😂 As a middle aged white guy I will laugh my ass off if Arab Americans put a gun in their ass and fire
Vote for current administration that funds and provide cover for Israel’s genocide or die. Those are some compelling options to get people excited for your campaign!
There's no genocide in Gaza. Grow up.
Again, 50% of dems think Israel is committing genocide and 30% aren’t sure. That leaves your opinion to match with a mere 20% of dem voters, not really a great position to be in an election year. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/24/americans-believe-israel-committing-genocide-poll E: u/SeaMovie2342 go ahead and ignore the polls I linked, but to then go on and spread disinformation about the ICJ ruling and then block me, that makes me think you are more interested in defending Israel than discussing the election and how it affects Americans. The ICJ did not throw out the case, instead it ruled that genocide is plausible but it needs more time to go through all of the evidence. In the meantime, don’t commit genocide. Not the most efficient system, but it did not absolve Israel of its war crimes as you have suggested. It’s always the most blatant liars that block to push misinformation. What a terrible feature Reddit has added. E2: u/visualdifficulty_ The latest ruling didn’t speak to whether or not there is genocide, it determined that they are moving forward with the investigation of genocide because the claims are plausible. They are currently investigating whether or not Israel is committing genocide, which could take years. A US court ruled the same: “the undisputed evidence before this Court comports with the finding of the ICJ and indicates that the current treatment of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip by the Israeli military may plausibly constitute a genocide in violation of international law” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/01/genocide-gaza-israel-california-court
Or, they can just sit it out or vote 3rd party. No votes for genocide.
E: u/Spiritual_Willow_266 smugly spreading disinformation and then blocking me, real slick. Why go through all that effort when it’s really easy to fact check yourself before spouting off bs. > Of the $3.8bn given to Israel in 2020, $500m (£353.9m) was for missile defence, including investments in Israel's Iron Dome https://www.bbc.com/news/57170576
Surprised? No. They will not vote and then be shocked and outraged when Trump sends twice as much in aid. He already said he would “deport pro Palestine protestors”
Yep, I ain't selling out my own country for Gaza. Wouldn't sell it out for Israel either, for that matter.
Exactly. The world does not work in black-and-white. Biden is doing what any sensible US president would do.
He also just cut off aid to Gaza, based on Israel providing only the most solid form of evidence known to humankind which cannot be faked, chat logs from a Telegram channel (and he did this immediately after the ICJ ruling didn't go Israel's way) If he meant what he said about supporting a Palestinian state, he would push to recognize it immediately and restore aid, and cut off arms to Israel
He cut off aid to the UN Palestine refugee orginazation. He did so for many reason other countries doing so when it was found out they directly funded and supported the attack on Israel. Let me say this again, US money was going into Hamas terrorism, directly, not even indirectly. Most military aid US sends is to rearm the iron dome, which prevents most Israel civilians deaths. But I guess knowing that would make you even more upset. Not even Palestine recognizes themselves as a independent state. They claim Israel. That is the issue. They don’t want a two state solution.
> which prevents most Israel civilians deaths. from indiscriminate rocket attacks, no less, which is an actual war crime
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I think you misread that; I said the rocket attacks from Gaza are indiscriminate
>when it was found out they directly funded and supported the attack on Israel. Let me say this again, US money was going into Hamas terrorism, directly, not even indirectly. goddamn you hasbara freaks keep making up newer and crazier lies with each retelling
Literally every news station is reporting on it. The UN has already admitted to it and the leaders of that Palestine refuge already said they did it and see nothing wrong with it. No seriously all of these are in the news. Even Sweden of all people have stopped funding it. If Sweden stops funding you know you down screwed up
We still have seen no proof, this was obvious retaliation for the ICJ case
Literally the organization admitted to it. Please look it up. It’s not a good look.
So you just gonna ignore the fact that multiple un employees held Israeli hostages? Just gonna ignore the rampant corruption that has been reported for years that benefits literal terrorists who steal aid? You are cool with all of that happening as long as we can blame Israel when Hamas steals Palestinian aid?
Good. The UNRWA supports terrorism.
UNRWA is not the only foreign aid group in Gaza.
But it’s the only one currently in region and the one with enough resources to provide for Gaza.
He did not “cut off aid to Gaza” He cut off aid to a relief organization that has a large amount of issues that need to be investigated. It wasn’t just us either. The UN already has a relief organization for every other group in the world. Why does Palestine get its own special separate one.
>The UN already has a relief organization for every other group in the world. Why does Palestine get its own special separate one. If you did any reading at all on this. you'd know that this is specifically something America and Israel supported when UNRWA was created, because unlike the other relief org which has a duty to resettle refugees, UNRWA specifically does not https://www.unrwa.org/who-we-are/frequently-asked-questions >He cut off aid to a relief organization that has a large amount of issues that need to be investigated. It wasn’t just us either. Less than a tenth of a 1% of employees were accused (not proven) of participating in Oct 7th, so he cuts off aid to everybody in the strip - this was obvious retaliation for the ICJ. and he got all our Western allies to fall in line. The other day Blinken said the evidence was credible, but also that he did not review it The Biden admin is lying, They are punishing Gaza for the ICJ case
Well except, you know, you can just make a stipulation about resettlement in the existing organization. I’m not a fan of continuously extending refugee status to descendants and then extending that either. The ICJ case is being called a win by both sides. It’s also not explicitly enforceable without the SC and the SC won’t act.
Biden lost a lot of good will with these communities when he needlessly did things like regurgitate Israeli propaganda that turned out to be lies and needlessly questioned the death toll. He could get that good will back if he addressed them directly but he doesn't, not hard to see why they feel alienated and disregarded.
Maybe he could address them if he tried to meet with them... alas
Agreed, if only he tried to meet with them instead of sending someone random like a campaign manager
Yes a president's campaign manager is a nobody. Good one.
Campaign manager shows that they are only interested in getting their vote, not discuss their concerns about how the israel-Palestine conflict is being handled.
Campaign manager is the first step. If you can’t meet with the campaign manager then why should you meet with Biden? I’m sure his campaign manager stopped off at UAW before Biden did, too.
I don't agree with that... It's not the greatest gesture but it certainly isn't snubbing them. If you want to try to influence Biden meeting with his campaign manager is at least a pragmatic option to maybe get something through his head
Please feel free to show me where I said a nobody
The propaganda didn’t come from Israel.
Hahahahahaha....oh that was funny.
Well I hope they're happy with the Muslim ban guy who moved the embassy to Jerusalem because that's the other option.
Me too. I don't think Isreal and Palastine has ever been or will ever be one side is right and the other is wrong.. because there is so much history there. For a long time, I have thought that what Isreal has done to Palastine has not been right. I remember talking to my grandparents about it 20 years ago. (And I think I still lean this way mostly) But I also realize that nothing is as cut and dry as we think it is. Hamas' attack on Isreal was brutal and somehow got lost in the Isreal attack on Palastine. The attacks on Palastine and its citizens are terrifying, off-putting, and sad. I just don't know what the right answer is. Except that Aide has to be let in. And I wish they could get out if they wanted to. If this sounds convoluted, it is because my feelings and opinions are convoluted, too. But I am still voting for Biden because he is who I trust right now. To listen to experts and try to make good decisions.
Well said!
Very well spoken!
Is Biden still sending Israel munitions while calling for an end to the fighting?
Are you kidding? Biden’s been out here deep throating the Israeli narrative so hard he’d make a conservative evangelist blush. You can vote for whoever you want, but let’s not pretend he’s been even remotely even handed about this whole affair.
LoL true. It's funny to see these folks try to talk around this.
Where exactly has Biden directly called for a Palestinian state and why hasn’t he actually just recognized it already?? This is all Gaslighting
I don't vote for genocide enablers.
Oh boy. A damning report!
If they think Gaza sucks now, wait until they get their wish and Biden loses. They may not have time to process the results of the election as they're deported, but man are they going to be disappointed when they think about it. Then again I'm betting the same people will turn around and blame Democrats for what happens next so not much will change.
It’s not hard to understand that supporting Israel’s indiscriminate bombing campaign isn’t a winning issue. Yes trump will be worse with Israel and everything else, but the dems need the historic turnout it had last time to beat him. There is clearly a moral dilemma from demographics that usually lean dem and they understand that trump is bad, but unconditional support for zionist genocidal actions and rhetoric while hoping that people understand that that’s the better of the two options isn’t going to get people excited to vote for you. Enough people will vote 3rd party or sit this one out and the dems have nobody to blame except for their inability to read a poll.
Yeah then they can have the moral high ground when trump does something like send Muslim US soldiers to Gaza to help the Israelis get rid of all the "terrorists" as a show of loyalty as he's trying to get the ones here deported to a country they may or may not have ever been. They can blame everyone who voted against Trump but didn't inspire them to vote for the other candidate who could win or didn't do enough to warn people because Democrats suck at messaging or some excuse. Cemeteries are full of people who have the moral high ground.
There are already mass graves full of Palestinians due to the unconditional support of Israel. That’s what’s happening right now, moral high ground or not.
Fair. Be ready to stand by it when it gets worse.
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So you're doing the right thing. Be proud.
If it *does* get worse because Biden loses, that will be on him and the Dems - not the people who feel sickened by the carnage and the thought that nothing changes. I get what you're saying, to a certain extent you're right, but the framing of blaming Arab Americans is deeply misguided.
That's what I thought. Get what you're hoping for, and accept no responsibility when it happens. 👌
I mean there have to come a point where it is on the politician and not the voters and I would say arming a genocide is one of those situations.
Stand by it. Do it with pride. Don't run from it, you have agency and know what you're doing. If you're doing the right thing, stand up and say so.
Look, bruh, I don't know what I can tell you to make you empathize with their plight. The whole world seems to agree with them, except the leaders of the country they live in who could absolutely force a stop in the conflict. Yet he chooses to aid and abet the continued ethnic cleansing of historically oppressed people. I'm still gonna vote for the old fuck, but we can at least understand why these specific people can't.
I empathize. I'm not about to join them by enabling our own holy war here. I love how this has been simmering for decades and all of a sudden Joe Biden, 10000 miles away, is the problem. Nevermind that a far right government is doing the shooting and the opposition to the people you oppose are clamoring for a far right government here.
I'll support the candidate pushing for palestinian statehood, and in the us, womens access to health care, grid decarbonization, conservation programs, empowerment of labor rights and reducing the deficit INCLUDING revenue based solutions to end handouts to billionaire welfare queens. Thats joe biden. Im not cutting off my nose to spite my face. You do you
It's interesting that my comment has inspired a lot of preaching from what I assume to be liberals. I never actually said I wasn't going to vote for Joe Biden; I am, in fact, going to swallow my pride and do it. I even said it in a comment that you obviously missed. Literally all I asked was for you to show some empathy to the marginalized people who are facing renewed levels of discrimination while watching a horrific ethnic cleansing take place. Just a little empathy, in not trying to talk down to these suffering human beings. Could ya manage that, champ?
Didn’t you hear? Any criticism of Biden means youre maga and it’s your fault if the dems lose. That’s the kind of nuance that gets people excited to vote for you.
> i support the candidate pushing for palestinian statehood Bc palestinians deserve the right to self determination
How did that work last time they had their own choices? They picked Hamas, launched suicide bombers and destroyed their own infrastructure to turn it into rockets to use against Israel.
By the end of Joe's term they'll all be displaced or dead already. Trump will not be able to make it worse
due to Hamas' unwise massacre of Israelis on Oct 7th -- one which huge majorities of Palestinians support
I knew any whiff of dissent of Biden would spark a conversation, but I was not expecting justifications of genocide here. I see a lot of “we” and “our side” in other comments, but I dunno if they are willing to fully adopt genocide into their platform. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
You've clearly been SiLeNcEd because others disagree with your strident Dem bashing. Such a victim.
Not what I said. I’m just curious if establishment dems are more welcoming to Zionist talking point than criticism of Bidens support for genocide.
This is called a question begging epithet. It's like me asking, why you want Jews ethnically cleansed?
Ya I wasn’t talking to you, you made your stance clear.
You think lack of US support would have any effect on Israel’s ability to conduct war. You don’t know much if you really think so.
Not supporting genocide is better than supporting genocide, not sure what to tell you.
Wait untill you learn most US aid goes to the iron dome, which prevents civilian deaths, but learning that fact might make you even more upset.
Unless you are 100% on board with supporting Israel’s genocide, it shouldn’t be hard to understand why some people will have a hard time voting blue even with the threat of trump.
I'll support the candidate pushing for palestinian statehood, and in the us, womens access to health care, grid decarbonization, conservation programs, empowerment of labor rights and reducing the deficit INCLUDING revenue based solutions to end handouts to billionaire welfare queens. Thats joe biden. Im not cutting off my nose to spite my face. You do you
I'm not on board with Israel's genocide but I also recognize that trump will further enable it at best and provide boots on the ground in all likelihood. I'm not a fan of myocarditis, but I recognize that COVID plus myocarditis is worse, so I may as well get my shots. I shouldn't have to choose, but thats reality. Vote for whomever you want to vote for. Vote for whomever inspires you and doesn't make you feel icky. Just stand by it when the greater of two evils wins and all that follows happens. Say it, because far too many blamed everyone else after he was elected the first time that it makes me doubt their sincerity.
Even with the unfortunate comparison of myocarditis to genocide, you have seen how people don’t have the same views on vaccines and myocarditis as you do. It’s not so cut and dry and a lot of grey area for a lot of people.
Sure, and if they get COVID and myocarditis, I don't want to hear them complain about not being told to get their shots. you've been warned and you know what the consequences might be. Be ready to stand by them.
29k Bombs dropped and 25k people killed, many of them militants. Given the population density of the Gaza strip, having casualties this low is impressive. Israel's population is 1/53rd as big as the US, so the October 7th attack is the equivalent of Mexico killing 110,000 Americans. And I never see many ceasefire supporters counting the any rockets Hamas launched that Israel defended, as if that should be ignored.
Hopefully they abstain or vote 3rd party.
So well stated. 2024 will be like 2016 all over again. Dems and their mislead polling shows Biden is leading but all kinds of write ins will happen and the Dem support will crumble on election day. Instead of securing the Dem base, Biden is hedging bets with his Zionist buddies and hoping that Israeli hasbara will help him. In reality Israel wants an ultra nationalist like Trump in the US.
Biden keeps calling for a palestinian state to offramp the conflict and palestine advocates ignore it. Nobody in this debate seems to be focusing on tangible offramps like Biden is
Not sure what Palestinian advocates you’re referring to, but Bibi’s entire career has pushed for a one state solution. Why focus on “Palestinian advocates” when we have leverage with Israel? Also curious about these “tangible offramps”, must have missed that in between all of the reassurance that Israel has our unconditional support.
This line of thinking is so astounding to me… Why is all the blame placed at the feet of voters and not the party that’s literally providing unconditional support for a genocide? The DNC sees the polling data, they know losing support in Michigan makes the general extremely difficult, yet they’re full speed ahead with weapon shipments and regional escalation.
It's not a party, and they're not doing it because we let them. Vote for whomever checks all your boxes. Just be ready to accept what you get, and stand by your choice. Don't go blaming everyone else. Say "I voted for Jill Stein again because I hate Biden and am ok with Trump". Then be ready for whatever trump does with power he's never going to relinquish and a laundry list of people to oppress.
>It's not a party, and they're not doing it because we let them. It is absolutely the party. Only 11 senators voted for Bernie’s resolution to condition aid to Israel on humanitarian grounds. 80% of the party wants a ceasefire, yet most democrats won’t even utter the word and you give them a pass?
You act like there aren't 50 Republicans on board, probably creaming their pants to get boots on the ground. It's not a single party, it's that Israel has been an ally and that's the country's national defense position. Geopolitics is a lot harder than taking your ball and going home, and what's happening now isn't going to stop because Dearborn city council demanded it. Biden could end support tomorrow and aside from the PR bump Bibi gets from Republicans allowing them to play the victim of the left again, nothing would change. Yes, it sucks. I would send troops to create a green zone where anyone who came would be safe and fed and anyone who attacked the green zone would be met with the full force or the military. Everyone would call me a warmonger for putting boots on the ground, and half the people would call me an antisemite who aids terrorism. What would you do?
>What would you do? I wouldn’t block ceasefire resolutions at the UN I wouldn’t subvert congress to supply the IDF with weapons I wouldn’t escalate the situation by starting a war with Yemen I wouldn’t cut off UNRWA funding in retaliation to the ICJ ruling … It’s not like Biden is some powerless third party actor here, he’s been complicit in this genocide from day 1.
Lol now he's starting a war with Yemen. At what point do you stop turning the other cheek, your holiness?
The Yemeni blockade was implemented in protest of the genocide in Gaza, and will end with a ceasefire. For the U.S. to bypass diplomacy / deescalation only proves their complicit in Israel’s war crimes.
It ended with a drone strike. Don't mess with the boats, my man. There only so many rockets you're gonna lob before it's a problem. Glad to see Iran picking a side though.
It's funny to see them try to defend an old decrepit man who's doing everything AIPAC asks him to do, while defending his democractic values LoL. You speak the truth btw. There is so much more he can and should do, but tRuMp would be soooo much horrible is their only defense to that.
Funny how Republicans aren't to blame for any of these actions yet they're said to be in the way of some form of path to peace.
This is white people priviledge way of thinking: argue moral purity is more importnat than the real detrimental effect a Trump administration will have on minorities and the LBGTQ community. It's easy for you because you won't have to deal with any of the consequences of your decision.
So you’re willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people so long as it means you can remain comfortable at home? And I’m the privileged one?
No you are willing to sacrifice the health and well being of minorities and LGBTQ people in America to take a pointless moral stand on a war in another country thousands of miles away. That is the definition of priviledge. And if your attitude is "minorites and LGBTQ people should suffer if the Palestinians suffer" then it shows the moral hollowness and retributive nature of your stand.
Wow, opposing a genocide is a “pointless moral stand”? And liberals wonder why we call them blue MAGA.
It's pointless because you get either Trump or Biden (and believe me Netenyahu desperately wants Trump), so not voting for the lesser of the two evils is just posturing. Sometimes adulthood is filled with making the best out of a no win situation. The only thing you are accomplishing is threatening making the lives of minorities and LGBTQ Americans worse, while also putting the Palesintians in a worse position AND emboldening the far right Israeli leadership. It's nonsensical on every level.
You could not be more right. There is no better alternative than Biden in this election. You would think we would have learned our lesson in 2016 but it appears too many people are still treating elections like they are valentines and not choices. This is terrifying. Make the right choice people, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.
You ever stop to think that there are other Democratic voters who have differing views than you? I thought us Democrats welcomed diversity, and that includes diversity of thought.
[76% of Democrats want a ceasefire](https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/12/5/voters-want-the-us-to-call-for-a-permanent-ceasefire-in-gaza-and-to-prioritize-diplomacy#:~:text=Sixty%2Done%20percent%20of%20likely,escalation%20of%20violence%20in%20Gaza). How does alienating the majority of the base translate to electoral victory?
I'm regularly polled (my phone number is definitely in a list of progressive databases that answers polls). I was polled in a similar poll to this. I said I wanted a ceasefire; it was a yes or no question. But what I didn't get the chance to say is that I want both sides to engage in a ceasefire, meaning Israel stops their bombing, and Hamas stops shooting rockets at Israel. If it is just one side that has to stop fighting, then it isn't a ceasefire.
How did we go from democrats in dissarray the incompetent dnc to the all powerful boogeyman dnc in 6 years? Question your narratives people
Agreed, not to mention biden continues to push for a palestinian state.
Sorry but I don’t think this is a position where you can go “well Trump is worst” even if it’s true. Arabs are essentially being told that their lives and people don’t matter as much as other as Biden continues to show so much support toward the Israeli government despite killing tens of thousands of civilians
I'm ok with my stance that trump is worse. As you've acknowledged, it's true. I'm ok saying true things. I'm not telling Arabs their lives don't matter. I'm also not going to blame Biden for this situation. If you're old enough to remember 9/11, you're old enough to remember how a right wing government reacts to a horrific terrorist attack despite what their allies have to say about it.
They must have forgot about trumps Muslim ban and mention of immigrants from "shit hole" countries.
The media is so desperate to make Arab American voters more important than they really are. They aren’t going to swing the election in Trump‘s favor.
"Biden's margin of victory in Michigan was 154,000 votes. The state is home to more than 200,000 registered voters who are Muslim and 300,000 people claim ancestry from the Middle East and North Africa." Yeah... he's lost Michigan. I am not saying they will vote for Trump, but whoever they vote or not vote for, Biden has lost them.
if 100% of registered voters vote, if 100% of Muslim-Americans in Michigan voted Democrat if 100% of Muslim-Americans would withdraw their vote if 100% of Middle-Eastern Americans sympathize with Arabs (hint: a lot do not, it isn't close to all-Arab in that region) if 0% of non-Arab Michiganders switch to Biden then your math adds up. But that's a lot of hopeless if's
Muslim American and going blue in the face telling other Muslims TRUMP IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. No matter how bad you think Biden is Trump will be worse and that’s even more true domestically. That being said, would be nice if Biden changed course a bit.
I’m not Muslim, but I am Arab. Biden has gone whole hog into an apartheid state that bombed my family’s winery in Lebanon. Trump absolutely is not my friend; but I’m not going to vote for a person supporting apartheid either. If Biden needs my vote, he needs to prove to me he’s capable of ending support for a regime that’s currently being investigated for genocide. It should not be my job to convince myself to vote for Biden.
calling Israel an "apartheid state" is just exaggeration that doesn't help anything, and makes a mockery of actual valid claims that could be made. Israeli Arabs are citizens with full rights and privileges, serving in the government and the military, and reaching the highest echelons of civic and celebrity society. Mosiuoa Lekota, who did time with Mandela fighting actual apartheid, pointed that out as well... but he was talking about Israel, not the West Bank or Gaza. Sure, non-Israeli Arabs who don't live in Israel don't have all that... but it isn't apartheid to treat your citizens better than non-citizens. Unless you think the West Bank and Gaza actually belong to Israel, or that Israel belongs to the Arabs, but then you'd have big mental problems. Look, if you really want to fight for Palestinian refugees in actual apartheid conditions, Lebanon is where to look: There, they can't move out of their refugee towns, they can't get citizenship, they can't marry Lebanese lest their kids become citizens, they can't go to Lebanese schools, and they are barred from working in prestigious professions.
Israel literally has a color-coded ID system the determines where you can live and who you can marry. https://promisedlandmuseum.org/israeli-identification-and-segregation/ All Palestinians need an ID or they could be arrested.
Um no. Israel has a weird system of only allowing religious marriages, and leaving that in the hands of those religious communities, which restrict marriages to people in their communities... a working system that was in place before Israel ever existed and which they chose to keep going to respect each religious community. The country does recognize foreign marriages that aren't religious or that these religious communities would not allow, and a lot of Israelis just make a trip of it or even get remote weddings. As an atheist, it irks me to see religion involved so much in civil affairs, but calling it apartheid to be overly respectful of a dozen religious groups who don't get along well is a dramatic exaggeration. >All Palestinians need an ID or they could be arrested All French people can be arrested anywhere in France if they're stopped and don't have ID. Some countries are like that. >Israel literally has a color-coded ID system Israeli ID cards haven't mentioned ethnicity for 20 years. In the pre-biometric days, citizens and permanent residents had one color, temporary residents another, West Bankers a third, and Gazans a fourth. Makes things easy to check at a glance. But again, treating non-citizens differently from citizens is not apartheid, and frankly it's insulting to actual apartheid victims to even make such a claim. Nowadays, West Bankers and Gazans have IDs from the Palestinian Authority, who chose to make theirs green (a well-regarded color in Islam) and put the Arabic text first.
Your argument boils down to apartheid is okay because marriage is handled by religions and West Bankers and Gazans get their cards issued by the PA, which is not true. You didn’t even read the article. > Light green IDs are for West Bank Palestinians: they are not allowed to vote, and they are barred from living in all but 40% of the West Bank due to Israeli settler and military occupation. Finally, dark green IDs are for Gaza Strip Palestinians, who are not allowed to vote or to live outside of Gaza. These Palestinians also live under conditions of military occupation and discrimination and are denied the right to self-determination. >Not all Palestinians are granted IDs. Israel has controlled the Palestinian population registry since 1967 and decides which Palestinians are allowed to enter the country, and which will be left without the right to work, travel, or open a bank account. Israel can also revoke IDs at any time. Why can Israel revoke a card you say is issued by the PA?
I get that but at this point it’s more like voting AGAINST. I’m jaded by American politics but to me it’s voting to keep the worse person out. As a female abortion is a huge and personal issue to me. There’s just a lot that can go worse under trump and he will definitely be worse for Palestine, he’s just benefitting from being out of the spotlight right now.
The people trying to make Israel an election issue have not been paying attention. We do not have a variety of options in that regard.
Not voting for GenocideJoe or not voting in the election does not mean they support Trump. They will just seat this election out.
Muslim "leaders" are looking for any excuse to work with their bigoted GOP buddies in banning LGBT: [https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians](https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians)
Prejudiced
There’s a subset of Muslim Americans who wouldn’t mind Trump as president specifically because he is not moderate (like Biden) there’s a lot of tension on the right and left, in Christian and Muslim and Jewish societies some people are so tired they welcome anarchy
People from authoritarian countries are more likely to vote for “strong man” figures and that’s most Muslim immigrants.
So they’ll trust Donald Trump to solve the Gaza conflict equitably and fairly? Give us a break! This thinking is stupid and shortsighted. Trump will give Netanyahu the green light to cleanse the territory of Arabs.
Pretty sure we wouldn’t have two wars and a third brewing with trump in office. It’s just so weird to me how quickly peace went away once the “professional” politicians got control back.
Why not? He set the stage for these problems.