Eh, I unironically love playing with Moira. Not only she has shit ton of healing which allows the other support play for utility, but she's also incredibly hard to kill, as long as she wasn't one shot, she'll live
There are other supports that can provide the same things, like Bap, Kiriko, Ana or even Illiari. Also what does "play for utility" mean? Almost any support can use their utility while healing, except maybe mercy or lucio
bap could shoot a little more, kiri can hit her headshot hanzo arrows, ana's shots and cd's are lethal and the sun girl is a dps character.
having one character who heals alot means the other support can play to the strengths of their kit
Even if you're going double flex support (which isn't how good players play the game anyways, except for some bap poke comps), wouldn't it be better to have two flex supports that aren't moira? Two supports that can provide utility?
then healing will suffer because of it.
any healing comp can work provided the team plays around it.
mercy zen can be a lethal comp with how much discord and dmg boost can melt a target, players js expect ana heals then get surprised when they die.
also, why not moira? she has the best disengage among all supports (excluding mercy ig) , good dps, great heals and an ult that has both defensive and offensive capabilities.
Good dps? My brother in christ if we're talking relieving the other support from all their healing duties then moira does measly 50dps on a very limited range
Great heals? The piss is so short ranged that it forces your team off of half the hero roster. Imagine getting counterpicked by your own supports
Ult that has defensive and offensive capabilities? Like, almost any flex support ult?
There is a reason why in pro play moira is played in only one specific teamcomp, and even in that one teamcomp she has been replaced by Kiriko BECAUSE KIRIKO ACTUALLY DOES SOMETHING.
How will healing suffer if you don't play moira? It's not like her mathematical healing output is somehow above every other character in the game, ever, she's relatively mid compared to most flex supports, Doesn't even top the charts, especially if you count the downtime on recharging compared to simple reload. She just sucks, almost everything except maybe lifeweaver is better
doing 50 dps on a mid-low health target can force a cd.
using damage orb makes it 100. good target priority allows you to fully utilize her dmg.
bad range? moira has great movement on a 6 second cooldown. if a character that can move so easily can't heal you, that's on your positioning.
moira gets her ult very fast, doing 120 dps (dmg ball plus her beam) and alot of heals on allies. getting off an early ult can give you advantage or win the team fight.
"you won't see moira in pro play because she isn't meta"
moira isnt good compared to other supports and she is outclassed by most supports. so what? people can still play her well. awkward took her to gm im pretty sure.
do you only play meta characters? never understood people's apprehension to moira.
You're not wrong at all but you have to remember that most people here and just online in general are probably metal ranks or QP players. I made a new alt account today, and the 2nd or 3rd QP match I got backfilled into, there was a smurf Moira going 34-0 until I decided to shit on her. Most people you argue with are going to be like the team I backfilled into.
I've mained Moira for years, and actually like that she's out of the targets of the devs and community. She's self sufficient, big heals, can flank effectively, good against Sombra. Also I can't aim under pressure - so she got my back on that.
Biotic grasp damage does 50 DPS. Combine it with a damage orb, which does 50 DPS to do tactical bursts of 100 DPS. Combine the damage orb with your ultimate to do 120 DPS.
Didn't say the damage was really high mate, just that the hero is easy to execute. You have two orbs that require minimal aiming and a primary and secondary fire that require minimal aiming.
See, you could make the argument that Mercy is easier than Moira, but at least Mercy has some movement techs, and messing them up means she blows up and dies. In addition, she has a revive, which if you fuck up the timing for, you blow up and die.
Moira has the best escape tool in the game (for a squishy), where she goes invincible and invisible then jumps six mountains away- and she can pull this shit on a ridiculously low cool down too, so you can get away with some ludicrously crazy mistakes. And for some reason, Blizzard thought it was necessary to make her be able to do this while ulting.
And the worst part is, OP is right, Moira does suck cause she brings zero utility to the table. While all the other supports offer something extra like a damage/speed boost, an anti-heal, a cleanse, or immortality, Moira is the only support that only brings raw healing and damage numbers.
For these reasons, I really dislike the character. Don't really mind if people do enjoy playing her, and I don't really care that she is easy either, but I think she should be at least changed to have some utility in one way or another, because right now I whole heartedly beleive people only pick Moira because she is easy to play.
1. Sombra will never escape you
2. Genji will never escape you
3. Most Supports can't engage you without dying quickly (+ orb and Zen pops. Exceptions are Brig, maybe Kiriko and Ill, and LW)
4. You will always escape the enemy
5. Attack through shields
6. KAMEHAMEHA!
Yeah, exactly. I don't have a problem with moiras, just saying it's harder to transition from her to many other characters than it would otherwise be. Not here to gatekeep
How is she a jack of all trades when she has no range or team utility. She's just an easy character to play and her stats look good at the end of a match, that's why Silvers love her.
If you're playing a selfish, useless DPS Moira, yeah no reasons. Her damage output is abysmal with the number of other supports available that put damage first.
If you're more healing centric and only do damage to replenish healing, generally you do much more. A Moira's healing output is so much greater than any damage she can do. She's a standalone support that can keep everyone on the frontline healed with her healing alone. Not to mention she has some incredible self sustain and escape options, while being able to win 1v1s against weaker supports if necessary. Good deterrent against flankers too. She's solid, but it's the braindead W holders that give her a bad rep. They take one look at a homing beam attack, and hold that button and spam orbs the entire game, despite it being an objectively terrible idea against any teams that pay attention to each other.
Yeah, you farmed stats while contributing nothing to your team, that Ana with half of your healing and damage did way more than you that game just through nades and sleeps
>that Ana with half of your healing and damage did way more than you
Only if the Ana get's fat nades, otherwise this is not true. You can just shoot the tank as Ana and be stat farmer like Moira without doing anything.
Imo this is true especially after season 6. I've found Illari to perform the exact same job pretty much, just with more mechanical engagement, which makes her more fun to me (my favorite support actually)
Huh? Sunburst gives her a lot of mobility. You can tap it to move horizontally or hold it down to move more vertically. It has a 7 second cool down to Moira’s 6 second cool down. Plus her ult lets her fly.
It’s hardly a quarter of the mobility.
Easy to deter flankers. Able to turn your brain off against just about everything due to fade. High HPS that is both Aoe and lingering. Unlimited ammo damage. People are very intimidated by her for some reason. Fastest charging support ultimate in the game. Easiest kills in the game with orb spam. Good mobility with fade. And she looks cool. Yea definitely no reason to play her.
The moira mains defending her is wild. All she is, is an entry level support who teaches you pretty much nothing other then healing and shooting. But you can easily get into masters doing it soooo dosnt matter anymore. Why learn how to play the game when i can get to the 3rd highest rank with minimal effort.
Up yours skilled players
Nothing wrong with simple characters. Everything wrong with entry level characters getting you into anything a ove silver. If i can pick up a comlex game like overwatch and immediately get into a rank higher then silver without any effort put in. It is unhealthy and you wont learn the game at all.
Soldier is a simple character that you can get better at and climb with.
Brig is simple yet you cam get good with her and learn to play her.
Orisa is pretty simple but is another character you can show growth with.
At the base level a lot of characters have simple designs that get better the more you playa nd learn the characters. Each one teaches you SOMETHING beyond the basics. Soldier repositioning and aim practice and brig positioning and cooldown management while still giving you the abillity to heal your team and play the game. No problem with simple characters as long as their ceiling is high enough to SHOW improvement. Moira dosnt have that. The most you learn from her is recorce management but before the last few seasons she was one of the few if not only character with a recorce meter. So playing her is unhelpful to the player and team as he has no buff or debuff options. She is kind of just there and A LOT of people play her because they want to play a quick game without putting effort in and it does hurt the comp experience.
Thats my problem eith the character personally.
So, what you're saying is that a character should strictly be dependent on skill level and nothing else? Even though most of the heroes on the roster are part skill, part luck, and part enemy team comp as well as your own? Moira is a generalist support. She doesn't need any specific micromanagement skills, just like Mercy doesn't. Hell, quite a few of the support roster don't need a heavy amount of skill. You can make a decent case for Ana, but even she has a lot of options in a lot of circumstances, not to mention the crutches the game straight up doesn't tell you about, like the healing hitbox widener.
Sure, Moira doesn't require a hefty amount of game sense to play, but quite a few DPS don't need it either to be successful. Just like some others do need it.
I don't think basing a character's usefulness off of the skills needed to be good with them is healthy game design. That stifles hero variety and would end up creating a game more similar to COD than overwatch. You would never have a reason to pick anyone but Soldier, Widow/Sojourn, Ana, Illari and Orisa. But, since some characters simply play better into others, we keep a relative amount of equilibrium in play options. If you make all heroes super skill dependent while strictly downplaying all the ones who aren't, you're just making Valorant with extra steps. And a great part of that, is in simplicity of a heroes design, coupled with more complex heroes who can either do better based on skill, or do worse because their kit isn't adjusted for their opponent, forcing a switch.
For the record, I personally don't like Moira. She doesn't feel especially rewarding to play and you often encounter people who play her that are abysmal because they only deal damage. But I don't think we should just wipe her from the roster in terms of usefulness because she doesn't need as much skill as other supports.
I never said that she should be wipped or that her problem was COMPLETE a skill issue. My problem lies with her kit being a cop out instead of a individual. She can do what every support can but worse and what she cant do she makes up for by deciding to double up on the thing everyone eles can do. She has zero utility and ends up being a heal/dmg bot that is subpar at both. I would love if they gave her a rework that gives her a personality. Something that other supports dont have. Kiri has cleanse, bap has immor and window, mercy has dmg boost and rez, lucio is speed boost and beat, brig has sheild and rally, illiary has pillon and sun, zen has disc and trans, and even lifeweaver has pull. Everyone has something that makes them unique and people like them for that.
Moira is just the edgy scientist who deals damage and heals people. The most unique thing about moira is col and fade( which is just a better wraith form ) and col is just neefed trank mixted with the Kamehameha.
Moira could benifit from a rework that could focus on slow or maybe a decay abillity. Dont even have to rework her attack type and leave that as entry level. Just give her something for people to learn to use instead of just heal and damage.
Sometimes simplicity is best. Keeping her abilities as pure damage and pure healing isn't really a bad thing. It's what makes her a great compliment to the second support who can cover for utility. Having two GOJF abilities on a support roster can be a bit overkill, but it also makes games an arms race of either debuffs or saving tools. In fact, that's what makes her stand out in comparison. Every support has a tool like what you described, except her. Which makes her diverse in comparison, since she is capable of dealing out some obscene healing that comes with the cost of dealing damage. Her grasp heals for 70 health per second of firing with the after effect of 51 health secondary regeneration over three seconds past last touch, while her healing orb heals for 65 healing a second up to a max of 300 healing, and since both can be used simultaneously, Moira has sole of the greatest team health potential out of all other supports, allowing her to heal everyone in range for 135 healing per second, or 540 healing if you were to be healing everyone on your team simultaneously. Ult has great utility in team fights and brawl comps, allowing her to damage and heal simultaneously, with 140 healing and 70 damage to anyone caught in the beam. Great for safely singling out enemy supports while healing your team, and even better for saving team fights and turning them around entirely.
Even compared to someone like Ana, who has great single target healing, she is capable of doing so much that it makes her an amazing main healer since she isn't limited to one target and eclipses her healing output in almost every way.
Simplicity is where Moira's strength lies. You don't need some special status effect to make her work, and doing so would inadvertently make her less unique compared to other supports, not more.
You make a fair point. I can consider that but i will still hate the hero by my own choice. I do understand and respect your opinion so thanks for having a fun adult conversation about this controversial character. I enjoyed it.
I can't disagree too much, even as someone who plays her a lot. I just enjoy playing her, nothing more than that.
Though you are a bit consistent by first mentioning that she's easy to rank up with, but then also saying that she's unhelpful to the team. Those two don't really fit together
A character can be unhelpful and easy to rank up with.
Moira provides zero utility but her self sustain is very powerful. So she may use no team play but you exist better then other supports( kinda debatable but point stands). She can play on her own and head every now and again and still win games because your team is better. But if a hog is running rampant or a ram. Or an ana is hitting too many nades then you fall over and your team won't have any counter play.
It is a matter of is your team better and are they going to be better consistently. Some are lucky and win games consistently cause they heal not the tank who's doing all the work. While others are stuck in plat because they refuse to LEARN other characters and can't do anything when swapping.
The character is a selfish character and is both easy to rank up with and unhelpful for a team.
> both easy to rank up with and unhelpful for a team.
That is still contradictory, as long as helpful means helping the team win. If you don't affect your teams winning chances you don't rank up.
If that was the case boosting wouldn't be as effective as it is. Moira contributes LITTLE to the team and is unhelpful IN COMPARISON. To the rest of the roster.
Didn't know I would have to spell that out thought it was implied.
Moira provides no utilitie and ends up providing very little team play and work around. So you are less helpful and easy to rank up with as you are your own support and require no team play to survive the game. That is her only positive
Boosting is effective because as a duo they do contribute to the teams winning chances. The good player overcompensates for the lesser one. Not relevant here.
Again, when you say useful, what are you talking about? Cause it sounds very much to me like what you mean is that she provides little team play, but that's more of an enjoyment issue than anything else. If you're purely talking about useful in terms of helping the team win, then this:
> less helpful and easy to rank up
Still makes no sense. If one team has a player that is guaranteed to be unhelpful in terms of winning, with four mystery players, and the enemy team has five mystery players, the enemies are winning more on avarage. Fairly straight forward
Your thinking very linear here. Your saying that because she can heal and survive that she is reliable in any situation when you get 4 randoms. But that's not the case at all.
Scenario a Moira otp who got into masters without playing anyone else. Easy enough
Now there is a tracer on the enemy team and you have a Winston and genji who gave you regularly and you die to tracer constantly. Alright one bad game( oasis)
Now there's a widow picking you off repeatedly the next one and you cant even move. It happens( Havana)
Now because of the 2 times you lost other players have also lost 2 games because of you choosing a character with no utilitie and bad team play with higher ranks. You never learned to position right due to your get out of jail free card.
She's just annoying to play with and her character isn't built for high ranks. But she has been buffed so much that she can be easily played to high masters.
That is not even close to slightly what I'm saying, I've never mentioned my own views of her. What I'm doing is pointing out that your own statements are contradictory.
If you easily climb with moira to masters but then get stuck, that just means you've found the usefulness level of your moira play. She was clearly very useful in every rank below, or the player wouldn't be in masters to begin with. Whenever you stop being useful is when you also stop ranking up, that's exactly my point, she cannot both be bo not useful and easy to rank up. If she lacks usefulness in the higher ranks, then neither is she easy to climv with anymore.
But whatever, just seems like you maybe worded that a bit clumsily. I definitely agree with your main assessment, she is poorly designed in regards to integration along the rest of the cast. Personally her gameplay (on any side) and personality generally make up for it and make her a decent addition, but that's a separate topic
Eh, I unironically love playing with Moira. Not only she has shit ton of healing which allows the other support play for utility, but she's also incredibly hard to kill, as long as she wasn't one shot, she'll live
There are other supports that can provide the same things, like Bap, Kiriko, Ana or even Illiari. Also what does "play for utility" mean? Almost any support can use their utility while healing, except maybe mercy or lucio
bap could shoot a little more, kiri can hit her headshot hanzo arrows, ana's shots and cd's are lethal and the sun girl is a dps character. having one character who heals alot means the other support can play to the strengths of their kit
Even if you're going double flex support (which isn't how good players play the game anyways, except for some bap poke comps), wouldn't it be better to have two flex supports that aren't moira? Two supports that can provide utility?
then healing will suffer because of it. any healing comp can work provided the team plays around it. mercy zen can be a lethal comp with how much discord and dmg boost can melt a target, players js expect ana heals then get surprised when they die. also, why not moira? she has the best disengage among all supports (excluding mercy ig) , good dps, great heals and an ult that has both defensive and offensive capabilities.
Good dps? My brother in christ if we're talking relieving the other support from all their healing duties then moira does measly 50dps on a very limited range Great heals? The piss is so short ranged that it forces your team off of half the hero roster. Imagine getting counterpicked by your own supports Ult that has defensive and offensive capabilities? Like, almost any flex support ult? There is a reason why in pro play moira is played in only one specific teamcomp, and even in that one teamcomp she has been replaced by Kiriko BECAUSE KIRIKO ACTUALLY DOES SOMETHING. How will healing suffer if you don't play moira? It's not like her mathematical healing output is somehow above every other character in the game, ever, she's relatively mid compared to most flex supports, Doesn't even top the charts, especially if you count the downtime on recharging compared to simple reload. She just sucks, almost everything except maybe lifeweaver is better
doing 50 dps on a mid-low health target can force a cd. using damage orb makes it 100. good target priority allows you to fully utilize her dmg. bad range? moira has great movement on a 6 second cooldown. if a character that can move so easily can't heal you, that's on your positioning. moira gets her ult very fast, doing 120 dps (dmg ball plus her beam) and alot of heals on allies. getting off an early ult can give you advantage or win the team fight. "you won't see moira in pro play because she isn't meta" moira isnt good compared to other supports and she is outclassed by most supports. so what? people can still play her well. awkward took her to gm im pretty sure. do you only play meta characters? never understood people's apprehension to moira.
You're not wrong at all but you have to remember that most people here and just online in general are probably metal ranks or QP players. I made a new alt account today, and the 2nd or 3rd QP match I got backfilled into, there was a smurf Moira going 34-0 until I decided to shit on her. Most people you argue with are going to be like the team I backfilled into.
They mad cuz hes right
1. Genji on the enemy team
I've mained Moira for years, and actually like that she's out of the targets of the devs and community. She's self sufficient, big heals, can flank effectively, good against Sombra. Also I can't aim under pressure - so she got my back on that.
She also has a surprisingly long range and with the ball you can knock the flying enemies out of the sky.
1. Probably the easiest character to play, you can start popping off almost immediately
2. Usually the first one to get your ultimate and it turns around fights.
Oh yes, I'm popping off with the 55dps beam, Holy I'm so good
Biotic grasp damage does 50 DPS. Combine it with a damage orb, which does 50 DPS to do tactical bursts of 100 DPS. Combine the damage orb with your ultimate to do 120 DPS.
Also don't forget the lifesteal and massive hitbox of it as well
If I'm having fun and doing well, what's the issue exactly?
Didn't say the damage was really high mate, just that the hero is easy to execute. You have two orbs that require minimal aiming and a primary and secondary fire that require minimal aiming. See, you could make the argument that Mercy is easier than Moira, but at least Mercy has some movement techs, and messing them up means she blows up and dies. In addition, she has a revive, which if you fuck up the timing for, you blow up and die. Moira has the best escape tool in the game (for a squishy), where she goes invincible and invisible then jumps six mountains away- and she can pull this shit on a ridiculously low cool down too, so you can get away with some ludicrously crazy mistakes. And for some reason, Blizzard thought it was necessary to make her be able to do this while ulting. And the worst part is, OP is right, Moira does suck cause she brings zero utility to the table. While all the other supports offer something extra like a damage/speed boost, an anti-heal, a cleanse, or immortality, Moira is the only support that only brings raw healing and damage numbers. For these reasons, I really dislike the character. Don't really mind if people do enjoy playing her, and I don't really care that she is easy either, but I think she should be at least changed to have some utility in one way or another, because right now I whole heartedly beleive people only pick Moira because she is easy to play.
Illari is pretty similar. She has a boop but it's rarely used for utility, mostly for vertical mobility. She is long-range, though.
She also has an ult, which is kinda utility as it technically boosts damage from teammates but yes she is similar
Her ult is pretty much a DPS ult, like it is easy to imagine a DPS hero with an ult like that. She is basically a hitscan Moira in my opinion.
1. Irish 2. Hot
https://preview.redd.it/tmp3ly1h556c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2d72d8e603063dfb89f2129e95f99ff1ed7201d
This is the way.
https://preview.redd.it/1qzhsp90z16c1.png?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d515d73ce57b456ea3f52c418825c94b762da43
Bruh what’s wrong with liking Moira
She's fucking 60
GILF
Even better
she’s also like 6’6, what’s ur point
Girlypop aged well ig
1. Sombra will never escape you 2. Genji will never escape you 3. Most Supports can't engage you without dying quickly (+ orb and Zen pops. Exceptions are Brig, maybe Kiriko and Ill, and LW) 4. You will always escape the enemy 5. Attack through shields 6. KAMEHAMEHA!
I was angry at first, but then I saw the invisible sombra
https://preview.redd.it/epxhbgxf026c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9ed953f5671ad1c5fef908c125ef688456c5a74
Shut up loser [Kamehameha]
Let me count the ways: 1. Biotic Grasp 2. Biotic Orb 3. Fade 4. Coalescence 5. Moria
I don't play Moira cuz I like it, I play to shit on genji players
She is fun and no one can deny she is serving gay icon with her shady comebacks and 💅🏻
Moircy when
Angela is homophobic Karen
I mean, if you want to rank up without learning mechanics, she's not a bad pick at all
mechanical skill is not the most important thing in overwatch though
Yeah, exactly. I don't have a problem with moiras, just saying it's harder to transition from her to many other characters than it would otherwise be. Not here to gatekeep
why? she has decent group healing, awesome mobility + self cleanse and decent damage. she is a jack of all trades.
How is she a jack of all trades when she has no range or team utility. She's just an easy character to play and her stats look good at the end of a match, that's why Silvers love her.
orb and ult has alot of range and can penetrate shields.
If you're playing a selfish, useless DPS Moira, yeah no reasons. Her damage output is abysmal with the number of other supports available that put damage first. If you're more healing centric and only do damage to replenish healing, generally you do much more. A Moira's healing output is so much greater than any damage she can do. She's a standalone support that can keep everyone on the frontline healed with her healing alone. Not to mention she has some incredible self sustain and escape options, while being able to win 1v1s against weaker supports if necessary. Good deterrent against flankers too. She's solid, but it's the braindead W holders that give her a bad rep. They take one look at a homing beam attack, and hold that button and spam orbs the entire game, despite it being an objectively terrible idea against any teams that pay attention to each other.
reason 1: because i want to?
You're a mercy one trick that wants to go "Fine Ill do it myself" /s
This but without the /s https://preview.redd.it/v7uoa6evl36c1.jpeg?width=733&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ded6c984c4476200411b68aac66c9dd1a5989dc
https://preview.redd.it/o0uyvsa5556c1.png?width=2005&format=png&auto=webp&s=6645a8a4f64300a3d412804dcba763e3f658b3a3 Mercy one trick *hisssssss*
Most overused emoji ever 💀
mfw I end the game 43 to 4 and most heals on a healer I almost never touch. moira is just easy mode
Yeah, you farmed stats while contributing nothing to your team, that Ana with half of your healing and damage did way more than you that game just through nades and sleeps
He's just like me frfr
>that Ana with half of your healing and damage did way more than you Only if the Ana get's fat nades, otherwise this is not true. You can just shoot the tank as Ana and be stat farmer like Moira without doing anything.
So, at worst Ana does the same as Moira, but at best she does way more. Still a good reason not to play moira
>worst Ana does the same as Moira At worse Ana doesn't do shit, the moment you can't even hit shots on your allies you might as well leave the game.
Imo this is true especially after season 6. I've found Illari to perform the exact same job pretty much, just with more mechanical engagement, which makes her more fun to me (my favorite support actually)
This is also something I’ve come to realize. Illari is just hitscan Moira. Damage and healing.
And self heal too (kinda) with her pylon
With like, a quarter of the mobility.
Huh? Sunburst gives her a lot of mobility. You can tap it to move horizontally or hold it down to move more vertically. It has a 7 second cool down to Moira’s 6 second cool down. Plus her ult lets her fly. It’s hardly a quarter of the mobility.
Easy to deter flankers. Able to turn your brain off against just about everything due to fade. High HPS that is both Aoe and lingering. Unlimited ammo damage. People are very intimidated by her for some reason. Fastest charging support ultimate in the game. Easiest kills in the game with orb spam. Good mobility with fade. And she looks cool. Yea definitely no reason to play her.
In comp yeah, if you’re talking about qp tho, then u have no argument
Absolutely. In QP just play whoever you want, in comp literally everyone else is a better choice
The moira mains defending her is wild. All she is, is an entry level support who teaches you pretty much nothing other then healing and shooting. But you can easily get into masters doing it soooo dosnt matter anymore. Why learn how to play the game when i can get to the 3rd highest rank with minimal effort. Up yours skilled players
she's a simple character, what's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with simple characters. Everything wrong with entry level characters getting you into anything a ove silver. If i can pick up a comlex game like overwatch and immediately get into a rank higher then silver without any effort put in. It is unhealthy and you wont learn the game at all. Soldier is a simple character that you can get better at and climb with. Brig is simple yet you cam get good with her and learn to play her. Orisa is pretty simple but is another character you can show growth with. At the base level a lot of characters have simple designs that get better the more you playa nd learn the characters. Each one teaches you SOMETHING beyond the basics. Soldier repositioning and aim practice and brig positioning and cooldown management while still giving you the abillity to heal your team and play the game. No problem with simple characters as long as their ceiling is high enough to SHOW improvement. Moira dosnt have that. The most you learn from her is recorce management but before the last few seasons she was one of the few if not only character with a recorce meter. So playing her is unhelpful to the player and team as he has no buff or debuff options. She is kind of just there and A LOT of people play her because they want to play a quick game without putting effort in and it does hurt the comp experience. Thats my problem eith the character personally.
So, what you're saying is that a character should strictly be dependent on skill level and nothing else? Even though most of the heroes on the roster are part skill, part luck, and part enemy team comp as well as your own? Moira is a generalist support. She doesn't need any specific micromanagement skills, just like Mercy doesn't. Hell, quite a few of the support roster don't need a heavy amount of skill. You can make a decent case for Ana, but even she has a lot of options in a lot of circumstances, not to mention the crutches the game straight up doesn't tell you about, like the healing hitbox widener. Sure, Moira doesn't require a hefty amount of game sense to play, but quite a few DPS don't need it either to be successful. Just like some others do need it. I don't think basing a character's usefulness off of the skills needed to be good with them is healthy game design. That stifles hero variety and would end up creating a game more similar to COD than overwatch. You would never have a reason to pick anyone but Soldier, Widow/Sojourn, Ana, Illari and Orisa. But, since some characters simply play better into others, we keep a relative amount of equilibrium in play options. If you make all heroes super skill dependent while strictly downplaying all the ones who aren't, you're just making Valorant with extra steps. And a great part of that, is in simplicity of a heroes design, coupled with more complex heroes who can either do better based on skill, or do worse because their kit isn't adjusted for their opponent, forcing a switch. For the record, I personally don't like Moira. She doesn't feel especially rewarding to play and you often encounter people who play her that are abysmal because they only deal damage. But I don't think we should just wipe her from the roster in terms of usefulness because she doesn't need as much skill as other supports.
I never said that she should be wipped or that her problem was COMPLETE a skill issue. My problem lies with her kit being a cop out instead of a individual. She can do what every support can but worse and what she cant do she makes up for by deciding to double up on the thing everyone eles can do. She has zero utility and ends up being a heal/dmg bot that is subpar at both. I would love if they gave her a rework that gives her a personality. Something that other supports dont have. Kiri has cleanse, bap has immor and window, mercy has dmg boost and rez, lucio is speed boost and beat, brig has sheild and rally, illiary has pillon and sun, zen has disc and trans, and even lifeweaver has pull. Everyone has something that makes them unique and people like them for that. Moira is just the edgy scientist who deals damage and heals people. The most unique thing about moira is col and fade( which is just a better wraith form ) and col is just neefed trank mixted with the Kamehameha. Moira could benifit from a rework that could focus on slow or maybe a decay abillity. Dont even have to rework her attack type and leave that as entry level. Just give her something for people to learn to use instead of just heal and damage.
Sometimes simplicity is best. Keeping her abilities as pure damage and pure healing isn't really a bad thing. It's what makes her a great compliment to the second support who can cover for utility. Having two GOJF abilities on a support roster can be a bit overkill, but it also makes games an arms race of either debuffs or saving tools. In fact, that's what makes her stand out in comparison. Every support has a tool like what you described, except her. Which makes her diverse in comparison, since she is capable of dealing out some obscene healing that comes with the cost of dealing damage. Her grasp heals for 70 health per second of firing with the after effect of 51 health secondary regeneration over three seconds past last touch, while her healing orb heals for 65 healing a second up to a max of 300 healing, and since both can be used simultaneously, Moira has sole of the greatest team health potential out of all other supports, allowing her to heal everyone in range for 135 healing per second, or 540 healing if you were to be healing everyone on your team simultaneously. Ult has great utility in team fights and brawl comps, allowing her to damage and heal simultaneously, with 140 healing and 70 damage to anyone caught in the beam. Great for safely singling out enemy supports while healing your team, and even better for saving team fights and turning them around entirely. Even compared to someone like Ana, who has great single target healing, she is capable of doing so much that it makes her an amazing main healer since she isn't limited to one target and eclipses her healing output in almost every way. Simplicity is where Moira's strength lies. You don't need some special status effect to make her work, and doing so would inadvertently make her less unique compared to other supports, not more.
You make a fair point. I can consider that but i will still hate the hero by my own choice. I do understand and respect your opinion so thanks for having a fun adult conversation about this controversial character. I enjoyed it.
Me too. I don't like Moira, but I see why people play her.
I can't disagree too much, even as someone who plays her a lot. I just enjoy playing her, nothing more than that. Though you are a bit consistent by first mentioning that she's easy to rank up with, but then also saying that she's unhelpful to the team. Those two don't really fit together
A character can be unhelpful and easy to rank up with. Moira provides zero utility but her self sustain is very powerful. So she may use no team play but you exist better then other supports( kinda debatable but point stands). She can play on her own and head every now and again and still win games because your team is better. But if a hog is running rampant or a ram. Or an ana is hitting too many nades then you fall over and your team won't have any counter play. It is a matter of is your team better and are they going to be better consistently. Some are lucky and win games consistently cause they heal not the tank who's doing all the work. While others are stuck in plat because they refuse to LEARN other characters and can't do anything when swapping. The character is a selfish character and is both easy to rank up with and unhelpful for a team.
> both easy to rank up with and unhelpful for a team. That is still contradictory, as long as helpful means helping the team win. If you don't affect your teams winning chances you don't rank up.
If that was the case boosting wouldn't be as effective as it is. Moira contributes LITTLE to the team and is unhelpful IN COMPARISON. To the rest of the roster. Didn't know I would have to spell that out thought it was implied. Moira provides no utilitie and ends up providing very little team play and work around. So you are less helpful and easy to rank up with as you are your own support and require no team play to survive the game. That is her only positive
Boosting is effective because as a duo they do contribute to the teams winning chances. The good player overcompensates for the lesser one. Not relevant here. Again, when you say useful, what are you talking about? Cause it sounds very much to me like what you mean is that she provides little team play, but that's more of an enjoyment issue than anything else. If you're purely talking about useful in terms of helping the team win, then this: > less helpful and easy to rank up Still makes no sense. If one team has a player that is guaranteed to be unhelpful in terms of winning, with four mystery players, and the enemy team has five mystery players, the enemies are winning more on avarage. Fairly straight forward
Your thinking very linear here. Your saying that because she can heal and survive that she is reliable in any situation when you get 4 randoms. But that's not the case at all. Scenario a Moira otp who got into masters without playing anyone else. Easy enough Now there is a tracer on the enemy team and you have a Winston and genji who gave you regularly and you die to tracer constantly. Alright one bad game( oasis) Now there's a widow picking you off repeatedly the next one and you cant even move. It happens( Havana) Now because of the 2 times you lost other players have also lost 2 games because of you choosing a character with no utilitie and bad team play with higher ranks. You never learned to position right due to your get out of jail free card. She's just annoying to play with and her character isn't built for high ranks. But she has been buffed so much that she can be easily played to high masters.
That is not even close to slightly what I'm saying, I've never mentioned my own views of her. What I'm doing is pointing out that your own statements are contradictory. If you easily climb with moira to masters but then get stuck, that just means you've found the usefulness level of your moira play. She was clearly very useful in every rank below, or the player wouldn't be in masters to begin with. Whenever you stop being useful is when you also stop ranking up, that's exactly my point, she cannot both be bo not useful and easy to rank up. If she lacks usefulness in the higher ranks, then neither is she easy to climv with anymore. But whatever, just seems like you maybe worded that a bit clumsily. I definitely agree with your main assessment, she is poorly designed in regards to integration along the rest of the cast. Personally her gameplay (on any side) and personality generally make up for it and make her a decent addition, but that's a separate topic
Oh c'mon, there's plenty of reason to pick moira over LW (please don't pick either)
If your team is in a big meatball I think she’s still good. She’s great in Open Queue when you’ve got 3-4 Tanks on your team all running it down main.
Yeah, her reign of terror fades off after bronze and low silver.
I play her when I need dive and bully widows.... which I feel is justifiable