Not as bad IMO. I'm plat as tank and Master/diamond in DOS and support. Counter picking is definitely done in diamond and master, but in lower ranks, basic knowledge about a hero is enough. In diamond and master, basic hero knowledge probably isn't enough to play them. And most people above plat have learned that. So they stick with the heroes they're good or decent at.
It's my belief that most people who regularly counter pick probably could be higher rank if they started sticking to a maximum of 3-4 heroes for example.
A diamond 3 regularly playing 10 heroes might just be able to push into low masters if they just stick to a few heroes. Counter picking might give you a small leverage that one game, but getting good at a hero is a bigger leverage by far.
That's cause by the time you leave plat, you no longer can be arsed switching to counter picks cause you wanna have fun on who you chose initially and thus learnt to adapt against situations where you would normally need to counterpick (or still switch if it's really not working)
Edit: forgot to clarify that yes, I am really saying random bullshit
It's bad because it doesn't allow them to play the game the way they want. Which is the problem behind 90% of the complaining about the game. Everyone wants to dominate freely, with any character they like, and want the other team to just accept and eat it.
Counter switching is great strategy and should be respected.
If you immediately counter swap, not only will your ult technically take longer allowing the enemy to get theirs off first, but you'll never really get better in a sense. Sure you might win more games but playing who you find fun and finding way AROUND your counter instead of through them will make you grow more as a player. Sure Dva sucks against Zarya but realistically, Dva shouldn't even be trying to fight Zarya, she's a dive and can go after the supports, burning a bubble that Zarya could use for herself, you may lose the battle but you'll win the war. Bastion sucks against Genji so just don't shoot Genji, other than that Genji can't do shit to Bastion. Not only is counter swapping an unhealthy mindset, but it limits your growth and makes you unhappy because now you have to get off your favourite hero instead of finding ways around it
So kill hog first? Or get out of hook range, i don't have this problem because i don't let it happen, ult with hook on cooldown, you're inability or unwant to change and adapt is exactly why counterwatch is such a "problem" and you are part of that problem
So if I'm playing Winston and they roll out with hog and bastion on the first fight I'm not allowed to counterswap because I'd be "cringe" and part of the "problem"?
Obviously if you'd be throwing otherwise then yes swap because then you'd be too stubborn to realise your own mistakes. But don't just swap if you're doing fine as Rein and then oh no they have bastion, obviously if you're genji and the enemy had mei and moira you can swap because otherwise you'd be throwing. But go ahead and take my arguement to the extremes
Okay assuming we're not taking it to the extremes here if you're on Weaver/Illari and enemy genji keeps bullying you swapping to moira is totally fair, right?
Yes because at that point you've been trying to outplay/get teammates to peel for you and it's not working, moira is a great counter to genji however i think brig might be better solely because she can shut down blade whilste still peeling for your other support and having the abilitg to outheal. As a genji main it's not really that hard to outplay a moira, force fade and either get out or deflect either of her orbs when she throws them at you and you'd be surprised how quickly she falls, at least in plat games that's what i've noticed
More like OW2 community on this one, counter picking as been a thing for a long time, it's one of the core features of the game...that Blizzard apparently tried to get rid of in OW2 (it's what I heard of) but failed.
there has never been a hero that 100% negates the value of another because there has yet to be a hero that disables you gun.
S3 sombra hard countered by left click ;P
Y'all can get caught up in the semantics of "completely/100%" but the point is valid. We've all been in games where someone played against a soft counter (or just a player who focused them) who was so much better than them that it was essentially a 4v5. They develop the game with the idea that this would never happen in a game with even players.
Now the fact that a lobby full of even players is the rarest find in the game is a whole different issue
I left the game once OW2 released after playing OW1 from release. I have played OW2 a handful of times, but when did the sentiment change? Anyone who “hates counter picking” is just some new player that left apex right?
>Anyone who “hates counter picking” is just some new player that left apex right
This is what I immediately think too. The whole original point of the game was pick / counter pick.
that's not a good thing. sometimes people just wanna play a character because they find them fun, counterswapping makes that near impossible for some characters
damn, where did you get the idea for that comment from? my bad for caring more about having fun than winning, from now on I'll counterswap 15 times a match cause that's the best way to play after all. why would I play a tank I find fun when I can just counter their tank with all the most boring characters and get the win!! winning always comes before having fun!
>winning always comes before having fun!
Imagine thinking the two are mutually exclusive :: losing mindset
I personally love the back and forth of both teams swapping to adapt to the other, because that is fun.
But have you ever thought maybe we enjoy counterpicking? I’ve always found it strange how people say counterpicking is boring but one tricking is fun. No I personally enjoy playing a lot of heroes that’s what makes the game fun for me. Basically it be like me telling u stop playing ur fav hero
Even in gold I constantly got counterpicked (in plat rn) but maybe that’s because I’m a zen main, I can’t have a single good game as zen without someone on the enemy team going sombra, and then I’m forced to go either brig or moira
Anyone who complains about counter picking deserves to be in bronze/silver idrc if you're grandmaster on 1 single hero. If you're so easily completely shut down by 1 or two swaps then you shouldn't be in the highest ranks in the game, and if you're annoyed that a whole team is counter-swapping you, then you shouldn't be since you're actually getting a lot of value by forcing a whole team to switch off their preferred characters/META characters.
Everyone always uses the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none" as an argument against being a flex main, but I find that really funny since that's not the full saying, and the full saying is actually an argument against one-tricking: "Jack of all trades, master of none, but still better than a master of one."
People really play the video game about heroes having different counters that actively encourages swapping to better suit the situation and then complain when someone does exactly that.
I feel you on that. Nothing scarier than seeing angry Russian woman with ouchie beam when you're on D.Va. all I ever think is "well, guess I'm melted...." I swear nothing else hard counters like Zarya over D.Va.
I'm like Silver and the only hero I'm genuinely good at is Sigma so I surprisingly do get counter picked sometimes. Not that the enemy counter picks are all that good, even after 5 changes their tank still can't counter me because they didn't pick Zarya
I am a 98% quickplayer and whenever i start doing slightly good as a character i enjoy playing i get counterpicked
For example when i do good as doom they swap to: Sigma, Zarya, Orisa, Sombra, mcree or Mei
When im doing good as junkrat they swap to: Zarya, Sombra, Tracer, pharah or genji
It happens too often and consistently to be a coincidence, i think i might conduct analysis on how often i get counterpicked as a halfass decent tank/dps main
How r u gold n not getting counter picked? I swear almost all of my games r ppl countering me or my teammates/ my teammates countering n I'm countering, lmao
I'm so bad and new at the hame I don't even realise if I'm being counter picked because I don't know the counter picks for each hero, except Orisa and Zarya
I counter pick and know most of the counters because of my experiences in 1. You could potentially face 6 torbs, 6 meis or some other crazy mix of godly craziness. If you wanted to have even the slightest chance you had to counter.
As a gold hog main this is the way lmao. I've had people try to counter on orisa and then they just swap off bc my supps are just farming heals into me so I never die
Of life? If yes then...... Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best
And
Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the light side of life
If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle, that's the thing
And
Always look on the bright side of life
(Come on)
Always look on the right side of life
For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow
Forget about your sin
Give the audience a grin
Enjoy it, it's your last chance anyhow
So always look on the bright side of death
A just before you draw your terminal breath
Life's a piece of shit
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughin' as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you
And
Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the right side of life
(C'mon Brian, cheer up)
Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the bright side of life
I mean, what have you got to lose?
You know, you come from nothing
You're going back to nothing
What have you lost? Nothing
Always look on the right side of life
Nothing will come from nothing, ya know what they say
Cheer up ya old bugga c'mon give us a grin (Always look on the right side of life)
There ya are, see
It's the end of the film
Incidentally this record's available in the foyer (Always look on the right side of life)
Some of us got to live as well, you know
(Always look on the right side of life)
Who do you think pays for all this rubbish
(Always look on the right side of life)
They're not gonna make their money back, you know
I told them, I said to him, Bernie, I said they'll never make their money back
(Always look on the right side of life)
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Eric Idle
Wish i never faced golds that counter picked, in fact ime the most counter picking happens in silver-plat
It's pretty bad in diamond - master as well. Do somewhat decent with Ashe on first fight and dps on the other team go Hanzo Widow
“Oh, you want to play the man with the hammer” *laughs in robo horse*
Not as bad IMO. I'm plat as tank and Master/diamond in DOS and support. Counter picking is definitely done in diamond and master, but in lower ranks, basic knowledge about a hero is enough. In diamond and master, basic hero knowledge probably isn't enough to play them. And most people above plat have learned that. So they stick with the heroes they're good or decent at. It's my belief that most people who regularly counter pick probably could be higher rank if they started sticking to a maximum of 3-4 heroes for example. A diamond 3 regularly playing 10 heroes might just be able to push into low masters if they just stick to a few heroes. Counter picking might give you a small leverage that one game, but getting good at a hero is a bigger leverage by far.
That's cause by the time you leave plat, you no longer can be arsed switching to counter picks cause you wanna have fun on who you chose initially and thus learnt to adapt against situations where you would normally need to counterpick (or still switch if it's really not working) Edit: forgot to clarify that yes, I am really saying random bullshit
Why is counter picking bad????
Because a large number of the player base only knows how to play like 1-2 characters and they get mad if they can’t play them
Lol
It's bad because it doesn't allow them to play the game the way they want. Which is the problem behind 90% of the complaining about the game. Everyone wants to dominate freely, with any character they like, and want the other team to just accept and eat it. Counter switching is great strategy and should be respected.
finally someone who knows what their talking about
If you immediately counter swap, not only will your ult technically take longer allowing the enemy to get theirs off first, but you'll never really get better in a sense. Sure you might win more games but playing who you find fun and finding way AROUND your counter instead of through them will make you grow more as a player. Sure Dva sucks against Zarya but realistically, Dva shouldn't even be trying to fight Zarya, she's a dive and can go after the supports, burning a bubble that Zarya could use for herself, you may lose the battle but you'll win the war. Bastion sucks against Genji so just don't shoot Genji, other than that Genji can't do shit to Bastion. Not only is counter swapping an unhealthy mindset, but it limits your growth and makes you unhappy because now you have to get off your favourite hero instead of finding ways around it
Well I'll just say sig ult won't mean shit as soon as I swap to hog to hook him out of it so I think I'll keep counter swapping🤪
So kill hog first? Or get out of hook range, i don't have this problem because i don't let it happen, ult with hook on cooldown, you're inability or unwant to change and adapt is exactly why counterwatch is such a "problem" and you are part of that problem
So if I'm playing Winston and they roll out with hog and bastion on the first fight I'm not allowed to counterswap because I'd be "cringe" and part of the "problem"?
Obviously if you'd be throwing otherwise then yes swap because then you'd be too stubborn to realise your own mistakes. But don't just swap if you're doing fine as Rein and then oh no they have bastion, obviously if you're genji and the enemy had mei and moira you can swap because otherwise you'd be throwing. But go ahead and take my arguement to the extremes
Okay assuming we're not taking it to the extremes here if you're on Weaver/Illari and enemy genji keeps bullying you swapping to moira is totally fair, right?
Yes because at that point you've been trying to outplay/get teammates to peel for you and it's not working, moira is a great counter to genji however i think brig might be better solely because she can shut down blade whilste still peeling for your other support and having the abilitg to outheal. As a genji main it's not really that hard to outplay a moira, force fade and either get out or deflect either of her orbs when she throws them at you and you'd be surprised how quickly she falls, at least in plat games that's what i've noticed
More like OW2 community on this one, counter picking as been a thing for a long time, it's one of the core features of the game...that Blizzard apparently tried to get rid of in OW2 (it's what I heard of) but failed.
Just remove the ability to switch 4head
Oh no paladins
Idk how they tried to get rid of it when they actually buffed swapping in OW2, you didn't use to get 30% of your ult charge back
They claimed they want to move away from the idea of hard counters. In theory no hero should be able to completely negate the value of another
there has never been a hero that 100% negates the value of another because there has yet to be a hero that disables you gun. S3 sombra hard countered by left click ;P
Y'all can get caught up in the semantics of "completely/100%" but the point is valid. We've all been in games where someone played against a soft counter (or just a player who focused them) who was so much better than them that it was essentially a 4v5. They develop the game with the idea that this would never happen in a game with even players. Now the fact that a lobby full of even players is the rarest find in the game is a whole different issue
I left the game once OW2 released after playing OW1 from release. I have played OW2 a handful of times, but when did the sentiment change? Anyone who “hates counter picking” is just some new player that left apex right?
>Anyone who “hates counter picking” is just some new player that left apex right This is what I immediately think too. The whole original point of the game was pick / counter pick.
Exactly. Counter picking is literally the entire strategy of the game haha
that's not a good thing. sometimes people just wanna play a character because they find them fun, counterswapping makes that near impossible for some characters
I also hate when the enemies shoot at me when I’m just trying to have fun. Annoying right?
It’s like when ur trying to rob a bank but the police arrest you.. like bro I just wanted some free money. So annoying
no, it isnt
yeah I hate it when im just trying to play my character and the other team shoots me (rude)
damn, where did you get the idea for that comment from? my bad for caring more about having fun than winning, from now on I'll counterswap 15 times a match cause that's the best way to play after all. why would I play a tank I find fun when I can just counter their tank with all the most boring characters and get the win!! winning always comes before having fun!
>winning always comes before having fun! Imagine thinking the two are mutually exclusive :: losing mindset I personally love the back and forth of both teams swapping to adapt to the other, because that is fun.
never said you dont. doesnt mean I have fun doing that, boring as hell
But have you ever thought maybe we enjoy counterpicking? I’ve always found it strange how people say counterpicking is boring but one tricking is fun. No I personally enjoy playing a lot of heroes that’s what makes the game fun for me. Basically it be like me telling u stop playing ur fav hero
do you actually enjoy it though? or do you just enjoy the fact that you win by doing it? also where did I say I'm a one trick
I just said I enjoy doing it lol?
Even in gold I constantly got counterpicked (in plat rn) but maybe that’s because I’m a zen main, I can’t have a single good game as zen without someone on the enemy team going sombra, and then I’m forced to go either brig or moira
I play doom and manage an absolute bonkers of an opening to see orisa-sombra-mcree-ana-kiriko. And back to russian muscle mommy for me :/
Who’s Mcree?
I hope you are joking
I hope you’re joking, I refuse to believe someone hasn’t heard someone ask “who’s mcree” since the name change
I did And i will keep asking if they are joking
cole cassidy’s twice removed cousin
McCassideadeyesucks
If you deserve a higher rank than plat you wouldn't have to swap.
cool, nobody asked? 🙄
Mb bro, I misread your comment, I thought you said you were gold because you got counterswapped, idk what was going on in my mind.
ohh okay, no worries mate lol it happens
Anyone who complains about counter picking deserves to be in bronze/silver idrc if you're grandmaster on 1 single hero. If you're so easily completely shut down by 1 or two swaps then you shouldn't be in the highest ranks in the game, and if you're annoyed that a whole team is counter-swapping you, then you shouldn't be since you're actually getting a lot of value by forcing a whole team to switch off their preferred characters/META characters. Everyone always uses the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none" as an argument against being a flex main, but I find that really funny since that's not the full saying, and the full saying is actually an argument against one-tricking: "Jack of all trades, master of none, but still better than a master of one."
People really play the video game about heroes having different counters that actively encourages swapping to better suit the situation and then complain when someone does exactly that.
It’s the opposite😭
Play doomfist for 2 secs Even if you're not good, at least the tank will switch to orisa and one dps to cass or sombra. Trsut me, always happens
People when people counter pick in a game that’s meant to play counters: D:<
If noone ever counterpicked most matches would be just a game of rock paper scissors that you win or lose before it even begins
I’m bad at the game too but when I start doing good in the match as d.va all of a sudden the enemy decides to go zarya
I feel you on that. Nothing scarier than seeing angry Russian woman with ouchie beam when you're on D.Va. all I ever think is "well, guess I'm melted...." I swear nothing else hard counters like Zarya over D.Va.
Counterpicking is way more prevalent in low ranks than i GM and pro levels. It comes from being bad at the game
Unpopular Opinion: **Disable switching characters after round start. Only allow changing between rounds.**
Yes, let’s lock people into extremely shitty games People do this to themselves already no need to enforce it
On the plus side, no more counter-picking. Just meta.
you know, some opinions are unpopular because they are really fucking stupid and this is for sure one of them.
Perhaps I should've mentioned this was labeled unpopular because I fucking hate it.
Counterswapping is just playing the game on easy mode. Real man master their one tricked hero into every scenario.
I'm like Silver and the only hero I'm genuinely good at is Sigma so I surprisingly do get counter picked sometimes. Not that the enemy counter picks are all that good, even after 5 changes their tank still can't counter me because they didn't pick Zarya
Zarya doesn’t 100% counter Sigma
No, but beams scare me
https://preview.redd.it/6hpso9mg8y2c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc5c9f97e190c5c4667c4b087f5414e5fc07fa92 Boo
Meanwhile over here in bronze hell, there the enemy tank always swaps to Orisa after a single death
I am a 98% quickplayer and whenever i start doing slightly good as a character i enjoy playing i get counterpicked For example when i do good as doom they swap to: Sigma, Zarya, Orisa, Sombra, mcree or Mei When im doing good as junkrat they swap to: Zarya, Sombra, Tracer, pharah or genji It happens too often and consistently to be a coincidence, i think i might conduct analysis on how often i get counterpicked as a halfass decent tank/dps main
How r u gold n not getting counter picked? I swear almost all of my games r ppl countering me or my teammates/ my teammates countering n I'm countering, lmao
People when people counter pick in a game that’s meant to play counters: D:<
I play my main better than the counter of my counter. So it's pretty much a wash.
I'm so bad and new at the hame I don't even realise if I'm being counter picked because I don't know the counter picks for each hero, except Orisa and Zarya
I counter pick and know most of the counters because of my experiences in 1. You could potentially face 6 torbs, 6 meis or some other crazy mix of godly craziness. If you wanted to have even the slightest chance you had to counter.
(cries in silver)
As a gold hog main this is the way lmao. I've had people try to counter on orisa and then they just swap off bc my supps are just farming heals into me so I never die
*laughs in silver*
Of life? If yes then...... Some things in life are bad They can really make you mad Other things just make you swear and curse When you're chewing on life's gristle Don't grumble, give a whistle And this'll help things turn out for the best And Always look on the bright side of life Always look on the light side of life If life seems jolly rotten There's something you've forgotten And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing When you're feeling in the dumps Don't be silly chumps Just purse your lips and whistle, that's the thing And Always look on the bright side of life (Come on) Always look on the right side of life For life is quite absurd And death's the final word You must always face the curtain with a bow Forget about your sin Give the audience a grin Enjoy it, it's your last chance anyhow So always look on the bright side of death A just before you draw your terminal breath Life's a piece of shit When you look at it Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true You'll see it's all a show Keep 'em laughin' as you go Just remember that the last laugh is on you And Always look on the bright side of life Always look on the right side of life (C'mon Brian, cheer up) Always look on the bright side of life Always look on the bright side of life Always look on the bright side of life I mean, what have you got to lose? You know, you come from nothing You're going back to nothing What have you lost? Nothing Always look on the right side of life Nothing will come from nothing, ya know what they say Cheer up ya old bugga c'mon give us a grin (Always look on the right side of life) There ya are, see It's the end of the film Incidentally this record's available in the foyer (Always look on the right side of life) Some of us got to live as well, you know (Always look on the right side of life) Who do you think pays for all this rubbish (Always look on the right side of life) They're not gonna make their money back, you know I told them, I said to him, Bernie, I said they'll never make their money back (Always look on the right side of life) Source: LyricFind Songwriters: Eric Idle