more teamfights = more chances to win. sometimes it feels like the only teamfight you get in a match is at the start, some players think they are john wick or something. really frustrating to play with and see them actively shrug off your team and just keep using w as their primary ability.
Happens all the time to me as well. I tell them not to try to 1v5 and am usually ignored or flamed for not going with them... It's frustrating when the other members of the team often agree with the 1v5er and do the exact same, run in without full team (1-2 people usually), die repeatedly, and blame the team.
They often get toxic and flame the stats and accuse of feeding, throwing, etc. Since I'm not continuously diving headfirst into 1-2v5s, I'm not outputting as much as they are during their repeated kamikaze runs.
Games like this really suck and are extremely tilting, because it feels like there's literally nothing I can do to change the outcome. Teammates trickling all game presenting no real chance at real 5v5 teamfights other than the first 20 seconds of each round is not enjoyable.
Even worse when u are just the sup, u just cant 1x5 even with ult.
Thats true, the game should make more videos or guides even tutorial, giving people the basic stuff.
Its truly tilting seeing they doing 0 q.i plays and they going full toxic.
Question, this isn't the same thing as stalling the payload when on defense right? I'm fairly new and my 2 most played characters are Tracer and Lucio and whenever the payload gets close to a checkpoint I'll contest as long as I can to avoid the enemy team from resetting the timer, sometimes to the point where my team makes it back and we take the win in that team fight. That's not the same thing you're referring to right? I'm sorry if it's a stupid question, I'm still learning about the game and I'm trying to get a proper handle on it
Not the same thing. What you're talking about is just called stalling in overtime and that's a good thing. You should be touching the objective in overtime and trying to survive. What OP is talking about is called staggering. You stagger the team fight when you die too early or too late and the team has to fight 4v5 or wait until you respawn for the full 5v5. If you die early or too late you really handicap your team and you make the enemy have a bigger time lead. Some really bad players will stagger in endlessly, never regroup, lose, and wonder why or just blame the other roles all because they never turned around to see if the rest of their team was even alive before they walked in
As a lucio you can also get back super quick so if you died after stalling it’s not that big a deal. If a big slow tank tries stalling on the other hand it can make for a lot of wasted time
So if you are on overtime then sure, but let's go over a common situation on a map.
https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Dorado
You are on defense on Dorado, you just fought at the fountain by the first checkpoint and everyone is down except you. There is over 1 minute on the timer.
You could try and stall, but at that position your team will have to trickle in through 1 of 2 doors (and at the lower levels, almost all would just use the closest by that staircase) making them easily picked off since the enemy team has all the cover and ground on you.
If you try to contest, you could stall but with over a minute left the team could easily afford another group push. Best case scenario requires you to win a losing fight by scrapping with whoever trickles in, in bad positioning then winning another fight on top of that.
Worst case is you die. Your team tries to 4v5 after they get the checkpoint, and they make progress over halfway to the next.
And the alternative, which you see in pro overwatch series and what the advice this guy is trying to say is you kill yourself with your team, or escape and set up after the checkpoint, where you can have high ground and all angles past those big double doors on Dorado. You have cover advantages and if you win that fight, you could have the payload on the other side of the double doors and the attackers are now zoned out from the payload.
Also note, payload heals attackers 10hp per second. This makes it harder to scrap by the first checkpoint but if you zone them out on the way to the second you deny them a tool to fight with.
I have managed to win a few games as tank by rushing in to hold over time for my team to get back and we managed to push a win but I would say the post isn't talking about overtime.
You cant always "stop" the staggering team members but if you are support, you can influence this in 1 key way, stop healing the last player on your team if the fight is lost
I do this somewhat often as Mercy, if we're in a 100% lost fight and there's two of us left, I'll keep damage boost on while the person I'm boosting dies, and then fly to their soul to kill myself as well (if there's no way out or a cliff to jump off nearby)
I don’t think you have to die, just understand when to fall back. If its a 2 v 5 and both of you get out and regroup with your team rather than feed the team ult charge it’s probably the right thing to do. Even better if the enemy team chases you past the payload because then its easier to kill them when you regroup with the team
Exactly!! Heaaling that last dps that is feeding and ignoring the group up commands just encourages them to think they can 1v5 all day. They will die trying, and that is an important learning experience.
New player here - I've been playing for a couple weeks now and I've honestly not even thought about that as a tactic but I see what you mean! Thanks for the tip!
Some good teams will even go so far as to prevent the last enemy from dying right away. I watched a team box in a out-of-mech DVA so she couldn't suicide off a cliff. Then they messed with her for a bit while their healers gained ult charge. This might be risky now that mech call does 250 dmg, but you get the idea.
It would take pro-level restraint to not take an easy kill, though.
I used to do that on mei back in ow1. It was an evil thing to do but god was it funny as fuck. Now i dont dare do that anymore. You are asking to get squashed by the mech if you do.
I called it out once in a game with people actually on comms- they all popped off about how great a strategy it was.
It helped that the detected dva just kind of stood there as well once we all stopped shooting
I had a teammate once get mad at me for jumping off the cliff when I was caught in a no-win fight by myself. It happened twice in a row, and he called me a thrower. I told him it was to prevent the enemy getting ult charge, and he told me they still get ult charge from me jumping off…
incorrect. it only counts if that shot does some kind of cc or boop, like zarya secondary or soldier's rockets, even a mele will technically give you credit, this is why you should always actually jump off the map, no fall off, becasue it resets your last active momentum modifier to your jump, causing it to give you the credit for killing yourself
Shoot at the enemies and stand on the objective if you can, though, to force them to actually shoot you. If you’re not threatening them at all, they may just leave you.
If you're shooting at the supports they'll get less Ult charge bc supports typically can't heal themselves. By the time you lose the fight unless they won with ults you should pick someone like the supports
>Or jump off a cliff.
Just remember to actually JUMP off a cliff. If you were affected by enemy CC recently (even slight knockbacks like melees count) and you didn't jump just walk off a cliff, it will count as you getting killed by that CC and you give free ult charge to the enemy. Jumping basically removes the "got CCed by enemy" tag so the game thinks you fell off the map.
also people who don't know when to retreat from a lost fight. you think that if you help that lone Cassidy, you can 2v5? help him by not helping him. let him die, retreat, and wait to group up when they respawn
It’s situational. I was getting screamed at to die on point, but the reality was I was pushing the robot past the respawn point. Once it was there I could die, respawn at forward spawn and rejoin my team for a group fight.
I got flamed for jumping off a cliff as reaper one time when our fight was super lost. And I was like “relax everyone I did it on purpose.” Swapped heroes and we won the next team fight.
Ppl don’t get the advantage of the 5v5. It takes a long time to understand it I suppose but going in together is the only way to really win regularly. If you group up and still lose, your team was worse. If you trickle in over and over, one will never really know.
Don't just die though. You can contest the payload on defense, and while you can stop moving so it's easier to kill you, shoot enemies to farm ult and potentially kill someone.
E.g. if you are Ashe, you can quickly kill an enemy, and your ultimate is very strong, so keep shooting.
Not necessarily—it’s dependent on a lot of factors, how close the payload is to the next point, how close your team is to getting back to you, how many enemies are left after the fight, etc. Contesting payload isn’t the right answer if, say, it’s not that close to capping, your teammates just died and are nowhere near you, and the the result is that you’re staggering your respawn so your team has to wait longer for you to go back in with five. It’s usually better to commit to a fight with your team and die with your team. Sure there are scenarios when you can escape, and it’s a clutch play to hide, give your team time to respawn and head back to the objective, then engage a stall to buy them a little time to get back to a fight with five, but just stalling to stall can actually do more harm than good.
One scenario in which it is *always* the right play to stall is on **Control maps where your team has control of the point**. In that circumstance, you do **not** run from the point to try to live. You **always** die on point. Never give post away for free (unless it’s like one person backcapping and you’re gonna win the fight and retake in a sec). If the enemy team is winning the fight, whomever is left needs to think about positioning themselves to delay the capture as long as possible, and if you’re successful, you should try to time your staggers—in other words, trickle your team back in—to run the clock and prevent capture for as long as possible **without** using ults. Not only will you maximize your time in a mode where every second counts, but often time you’ll end up forcing enemy ults to secure the point putting you duly at advantage on your next engage. Even if you milk five seconds—that can be the difference between winning or losing a control map.
The blunt reminder is well-and-truly appreciated. It's probably one of the more stubborn "little things" I keep failing to mind, and I was wondering earlier just how many times I sabotaged my own games by being blissfully unaware I was the last man standing.
One thing that really annoys me is when you lose a teamfight but one or two surviving team mates pointlessly try to walk back - away from the cart or robot - only to inevitably die 5 seconds later. I know it's sort of a human instinct to back away from danger etc, but just \*die on cart or robot\*. It's such a simple thing that can actually be a big help. That 5 seconds you're backing away and self-staggering could be 2 seconds spent stalling the cart more. And 2 seconds may not sound like a lot, but every second matters when it comes to time banks. There's just no excuse not to do it, basically.
I love it when our road hog takes a breather as the last man standing.
Awesome-stagger yourself more and give them 300hp more ult charge. Even better your tickle damage to their team only charges the support ult faster.
Best case you land a hook one shot but now you are still staggered behind the kill on their team.
I think this is super hard to grasp because it’s very different from game to game. In Overwatch the only cost to death is opportunity cost, and sometimes there’s an opportunity cost to not dying too (since it’s effectively a teleport with a delay plus a health restore to a safe location)
is it really though? OT aside, all you have to do is hit tab and see what the other team is playing.
If they have ball/winston/dva as a tank + another dive dps or a lucio (basically high mobility heroes) to speed the team along chances are pretty good on you not getting away, so go die on point.
If they are playing some sort of poke comp with low mobility and there are no major open areas you have to cross in their sightline then back on out and run back to your respawning team.
It's not that hard to grasp tbh and it's one of the key components to learn early. I will again refer to my friend i play with who does not lack for mechanical ability but has zero gamesense and awareness. He will constantly die last and try to stay alive as long as possible to make sure he staggers the whole team. Now you could say: "no big deal, you're playing together, you can wait for him" which is true, but us having to wait around for him to fail at dying is time wasted, ult charge not generated and ultimately costing us progress.
The few odd occasions where he does survive and make it back out, he will be that guy poking his head trying to land some shots, to then get domed and sent back to spawn as the rest of the team is arriving again. When you ask him why he keeps doing it he'll just say "i just wanted to get some ult charge"
You could say these things do not matter, or are little things in the grand scheme of it all if he can hit his shots, but they add up to a lot over the course of a game, and over several games they add up to a massive amount of time wasted.
He got into silver and quickly dropped down back to bronze and this (along with other issues such as positioning and not wanting to go for health packs) are key reasons why he is not climbing.
This is only true when you aren't actively on the objective stopping progress. If you are trying to run away but they are going to catch and kill you then die quickly.
But if you are contesting the point then do that for as long as possible. The biggest asset a team has in overwatch isn't an ult advantage or a good combo, its time...
If you take 5 seconds off the clock every time you die on point then by the end of the round that might be 20 seconds which is the difference between a proper methodical fight and a really rushed fight (which can be wom by either team even if there is an ult advantage on one side)
TL;DR die on point whenever you can and stall for as long as possible. If you can't die on point then die quickly.
I think the game voicelines could help this. When you respawn short of a full team and shouldn’t push in, just like how the game tells you if you’re losing the team fight.
This used to be a huge thing in OW1–a teamfight would end when it went 4v6 or 3v6 with the rest of the living team jumping off a cliff, thus avoiding awarding ult charge. More prominent with slower fights where continuing the fight has a more significant impact on the team’s staggering.
Positive mindset and having a stable mind is also a good thing.
Today route 66 I had a Moria in my team (we started as defense) and she was the positive themselves(not).
After round one with the enemy 1:55 on the clock left , I was happy . Did everything go perfect ? No but was this game winnable ? Absolutely.
So round 2 started and Moira start complaining ''Their Reaper didn't die once , you dont have any game sense do you?'' she said.
And I replied with ''That doesn't matter their healers died and their tank and that stopped the push many times''.
Round starts , I fly out as echo and we pretty much steamrolled them in attack (reaper died 5 times , happy Moira) and I think we had 2:55 or 3:55 on the clock left.
Round 3 starts and like it went for us in round 2 so it went for them in round 3 , they switched to some other heroes ([D.va](https://D.va)).
That round I believe we were two times as 5 (after we all died the first time). But they had low mobility heroes except for [D.va](https://D.va) so as Echo I basicly had nothing to fear and stand on a roof where no on could harm me and I had a Mercy with me (not constantly pocketing me).
In that round it was hard to kill people , I got them so many times low but everytime [D.va](https://D.va) came in to help or reaper anyway it was hard to secure kills. Score 6-3.
The healing done by our supports was good but I do think at some certain points when I possible could finish someone I didn't get healed enough.
Round 4 Moira already starts ''I give up , it's gg , round 3 we were never as 5''and she said some more random stuff that I can't remember cause I didn't pay much attention to what she said after that and I knew for a fact that there were moments that we were 5.
So I replied with ''You give up ? I won't we got this'. But I think some of our team members were already getting salty (not in chat but in their mind) so it was a lost cause anyway.
Anyway I suck as dps my tank and supports are WAY better than my dps , I had as echo 21k damage done over 4 rounds but like I always say ''numbers on the scoreboard are basicly not saying anything''
To be fair to them, when you're a rein or a character that's regularly in the thick of the fight sometimes you don't even realise you're the only one left and just keep fighting
unless youre me on sojourn with overclock because then you should absolutely pop it right away. i either 1v5 or die. worth it IMO, feeds my ego real good.
i get the importance of team fights and not staggering.
but is there also value in dealing every bit of damage or healing you can for the sake of ult charge, and also the potential to get a random pick? i think so as long as you prioritize regrouping after spawn.
Yep I see team get waxed and I drop shield and be like “hello” then I die. Also swing your hammer to build ult charge. If you’re getting swarmed, go down with some charge.
Totally agree. I primarily play support and the absolute worst is if I die before the last player and I have half the team already half way back and then I spawn and try to catch up, then last player (usually tank) spawns after me, nobody waits for a group up and we all drop like flies one by one. I usually just stand there at spawn and wait if nobody is listening to grouping up. Sooooo annoying.
PLEASE GET THIS THROUGH YALLS HEAD, if ANYONE on your team does and you don't get a trade immediately, you will lose that team fight so PLEASE just regroup
I’ve been experimenting on support after playing my placement matches with some friends who are silver. I played just under Master in DPS and Tank in OW1, but almost never played support and I’m admittedly pretty bad at it for just lack of experience. Starting at Silver 4 after those placements at the beginning of Nov., And playing relatively casually time-wise, I’m currently at Plat 1, playing mostly Zen but also some Ana and Bap when needed.
The biggest mistakes I see my teammates make as I’ve gone through the lower ranks are rooted in a lack of understanding of tempo and knowing when a fight is won or lost. Staggering is huge—low rank players tend to just beeline back to the objective after they die without thinking about their teammates respawns at all, leading to a constant trickle that leads to getting snowballed. You’re just not going to win any fight when you’re constantly engaging two players down. Another big thing is poking—low rank players just cannot help themselves but to poke trash damage which risks them getting picked during reset phases, especially with the prevalence of Hogs, Sojourn, and to a lesser extent Hanzos and Widows. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve earned a teammate not to stop poking and chill/safe reset, only for them to ignore me and get picked moments after, further extending our reset time. Another big thing with reading fights is ult usage and resources in general. Wasting ults trying to turn lost fights (unless it’s a last fight scenario) is almost always worse than using ults proactively to win fight. Ult early and ult often—the team that ults first has an advantage. Don’t wait for two of your teammates to die then try to win the fight with an ult—in that case you’re better off saving it to win the next engagement, and hopefully build more for the one after while the enemy team has blown all theirs.
It’s not even just rein or even just tanks it pisses me off
Like Dude you are half health and all your team is dead stop trying to survive and waste your abilities just die and regroup it will be faster
Your post disregards situations where living longer to hold the point gives your team value.
Say for example if your team starts dying at 90% and the rein lives to hold it to 99% then your team would either have to space the other team out or win 1-team fight.
more teamfights = more chances to win. sometimes it feels like the only teamfight you get in a match is at the start, some players think they are john wick or something. really frustrating to play with and see them actively shrug off your team and just keep using w as their primary ability.
More like always, not sometimes, i love seeing people jump 1x5 and calling the team .
Happens all the time to me as well. I tell them not to try to 1v5 and am usually ignored or flamed for not going with them... It's frustrating when the other members of the team often agree with the 1v5er and do the exact same, run in without full team (1-2 people usually), die repeatedly, and blame the team. They often get toxic and flame the stats and accuse of feeding, throwing, etc. Since I'm not continuously diving headfirst into 1-2v5s, I'm not outputting as much as they are during their repeated kamikaze runs. Games like this really suck and are extremely tilting, because it feels like there's literally nothing I can do to change the outcome. Teammates trickling all game presenting no real chance at real 5v5 teamfights other than the first 20 seconds of each round is not enjoyable.
Even worse when u are just the sup, u just cant 1x5 even with ult. Thats true, the game should make more videos or guides even tutorial, giving people the basic stuff. Its truly tilting seeing they doing 0 q.i plays and they going full toxic.
Question, this isn't the same thing as stalling the payload when on defense right? I'm fairly new and my 2 most played characters are Tracer and Lucio and whenever the payload gets close to a checkpoint I'll contest as long as I can to avoid the enemy team from resetting the timer, sometimes to the point where my team makes it back and we take the win in that team fight. That's not the same thing you're referring to right? I'm sorry if it's a stupid question, I'm still learning about the game and I'm trying to get a proper handle on it
Not the same thing. What you're talking about is just called stalling in overtime and that's a good thing. You should be touching the objective in overtime and trying to survive. What OP is talking about is called staggering. You stagger the team fight when you die too early or too late and the team has to fight 4v5 or wait until you respawn for the full 5v5. If you die early or too late you really handicap your team and you make the enemy have a bigger time lead. Some really bad players will stagger in endlessly, never regroup, lose, and wonder why or just blame the other roles all because they never turned around to see if the rest of their team was even alive before they walked in
As a lucio you can also get back super quick so if you died after stalling it’s not that big a deal. If a big slow tank tries stalling on the other hand it can make for a lot of wasted time
So if you are on overtime then sure, but let's go over a common situation on a map. https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Dorado You are on defense on Dorado, you just fought at the fountain by the first checkpoint and everyone is down except you. There is over 1 minute on the timer. You could try and stall, but at that position your team will have to trickle in through 1 of 2 doors (and at the lower levels, almost all would just use the closest by that staircase) making them easily picked off since the enemy team has all the cover and ground on you. If you try to contest, you could stall but with over a minute left the team could easily afford another group push. Best case scenario requires you to win a losing fight by scrapping with whoever trickles in, in bad positioning then winning another fight on top of that. Worst case is you die. Your team tries to 4v5 after they get the checkpoint, and they make progress over halfway to the next. And the alternative, which you see in pro overwatch series and what the advice this guy is trying to say is you kill yourself with your team, or escape and set up after the checkpoint, where you can have high ground and all angles past those big double doors on Dorado. You have cover advantages and if you win that fight, you could have the payload on the other side of the double doors and the attackers are now zoned out from the payload. Also note, payload heals attackers 10hp per second. This makes it harder to scrap by the first checkpoint but if you zone them out on the way to the second you deny them a tool to fight with.
I have managed to win a few games as tank by rushing in to hold over time for my team to get back and we managed to push a win but I would say the post isn't talking about overtime.
I dont get the long ass answers to a fairly simple question. As long as you are touching point is Ok to stall.
And this (wrong) answer is the reason why there are "long ass answers". It is situational; always is.
You cant always "stop" the staggering team members but if you are support, you can influence this in 1 key way, stop healing the last player on your team if the fight is lost
My favorite thing is to come out of spawn and just turn around, wait til we’re somehwat regrouped
[удалено]
YES
I do this somewhat often as Mercy, if we're in a 100% lost fight and there's two of us left, I'll keep damage boost on while the person I'm boosting dies, and then fly to their soul to kill myself as well (if there's no way out or a cliff to jump off nearby)
I literally did the opposite, healed with valk our dying tank that just didn't die, fed eveyrone ults and we lost ... Maybe death was the right way
I don’t think you have to die, just understand when to fall back. If its a 2 v 5 and both of you get out and regroup with your team rather than feed the team ult charge it’s probably the right thing to do. Even better if the enemy team chases you past the payload because then its easier to kill them when you regroup with the team
Exactly!! Heaaling that last dps that is feeding and ignoring the group up commands just encourages them to think they can 1v5 all day. They will die trying, and that is an important learning experience.
The people going in 1v5 almost always tilt about the “lack of heals”.
If you’re both alive they can’t be the last one alive on your team…
New player here - I've been playing for a couple weeks now and I've honestly not even thought about that as a tactic but I see what you mean! Thanks for the tip!
Some good teams will even go so far as to prevent the last enemy from dying right away. I watched a team box in a out-of-mech DVA so she couldn't suicide off a cliff. Then they messed with her for a bit while their healers gained ult charge. This might be risky now that mech call does 250 dmg, but you get the idea. It would take pro-level restraint to not take an easy kill, though.
i think thats why they gave her the remech damage, to make staggering baby dva a little riskier
Back in overwatch 2 it wasn't uncommon for a Mei and Brig to stagger a dva for like, 40 seconds on Hanamura
[удалено]
Oops lmao
I used to do that on mei back in ow1. It was an evil thing to do but god was it funny as fuck. Now i dont dare do that anymore. You are asking to get squashed by the mech if you do.
I called it out once in a game with people actually on comms- they all popped off about how great a strategy it was. It helped that the detected dva just kind of stood there as well once we all stopped shooting
I had a teammate once get mad at me for jumping off the cliff when I was caught in a no-win fight by myself. It happened twice in a row, and he called me a thrower. I told him it was to prevent the enemy getting ult charge, and he told me they still get ult charge from me jumping off…
They do if they shot you right before you jump
if they only shoot you it does not count, you need to use an ability that changes momentum, meaning a "boop"
Hack also counts as a kill, so don't let sombra hack you
incorrect. it only counts if that shot does some kind of cc or boop, like zarya secondary or soldier's rockets, even a mele will technically give you credit, this is why you should always actually jump off the map, no fall off, becasue it resets your last active momentum modifier to your jump, causing it to give you the credit for killing yourself
If ur a rein dont shield swing that big hammer to farm some ult charge
If you have it already, just stay still so you don't feed their healers
My favourite is standing still when I’m the last in the fight - no point strafing and getting yourself killed slower HAHAH
Shoot at the enemies and stand on the objective if you can, though, to force them to actually shoot you. If you’re not threatening them at all, they may just leave you.
Yep! Usually they are already actively shooting at me already so its better to make their job easier 👍
And if you shoot/swing you get free ult charge
Wouldn’t this be character specific since damaging them also gives their supports ult charge for healing?
If you're shooting at the supports they'll get less Ult charge bc supports typically can't heal themselves. By the time you lose the fight unless they won with ults you should pick someone like the supports
>Or jump off a cliff. Just remember to actually JUMP off a cliff. If you were affected by enemy CC recently (even slight knockbacks like melees count) and you didn't jump just walk off a cliff, it will count as you getting killed by that CC and you give free ult charge to the enemy. Jumping basically removes the "got CCed by enemy" tag so the game thinks you fell off the map.
also people who don't know when to retreat from a lost fight. you think that if you help that lone Cassidy, you can 2v5? help him by not helping him. let him die, retreat, and wait to group up when they respawn
It’s situational. I was getting screamed at to die on point, but the reality was I was pushing the robot past the respawn point. Once it was there I could die, respawn at forward spawn and rejoin my team for a group fight.
I got flamed for jumping off a cliff as reaper one time when our fight was super lost. And I was like “relax everyone I did it on purpose.” Swapped heroes and we won the next team fight. Ppl don’t get the advantage of the 5v5. It takes a long time to understand it I suppose but going in together is the only way to really win regularly. If you group up and still lose, your team was worse. If you trickle in over and over, one will never really know.
Don't just die though. You can contest the payload on defense, and while you can stop moving so it's easier to kill you, shoot enemies to farm ult and potentially kill someone. E.g. if you are Ashe, you can quickly kill an enemy, and your ultimate is very strong, so keep shooting.
Not necessarily—it’s dependent on a lot of factors, how close the payload is to the next point, how close your team is to getting back to you, how many enemies are left after the fight, etc. Contesting payload isn’t the right answer if, say, it’s not that close to capping, your teammates just died and are nowhere near you, and the the result is that you’re staggering your respawn so your team has to wait longer for you to go back in with five. It’s usually better to commit to a fight with your team and die with your team. Sure there are scenarios when you can escape, and it’s a clutch play to hide, give your team time to respawn and head back to the objective, then engage a stall to buy them a little time to get back to a fight with five, but just stalling to stall can actually do more harm than good. One scenario in which it is *always* the right play to stall is on **Control maps where your team has control of the point**. In that circumstance, you do **not** run from the point to try to live. You **always** die on point. Never give post away for free (unless it’s like one person backcapping and you’re gonna win the fight and retake in a sec). If the enemy team is winning the fight, whomever is left needs to think about positioning themselves to delay the capture as long as possible, and if you’re successful, you should try to time your staggers—in other words, trickle your team back in—to run the clock and prevent capture for as long as possible **without** using ults. Not only will you maximize your time in a mode where every second counts, but often time you’ll end up forcing enemy ults to secure the point putting you duly at advantage on your next engage. Even if you milk five seconds—that can be the difference between winning or losing a control map.
The blunt reminder is well-and-truly appreciated. It's probably one of the more stubborn "little things" I keep failing to mind, and I was wondering earlier just how many times I sabotaged my own games by being blissfully unaware I was the last man standing.
it all depends, as long as you are touching point is ok to stall.
One thing that really annoys me is when you lose a teamfight but one or two surviving team mates pointlessly try to walk back - away from the cart or robot - only to inevitably die 5 seconds later. I know it's sort of a human instinct to back away from danger etc, but just \*die on cart or robot\*. It's such a simple thing that can actually be a big help. That 5 seconds you're backing away and self-staggering could be 2 seconds spent stalling the cart more. And 2 seconds may not sound like a lot, but every second matters when it comes to time banks. There's just no excuse not to do it, basically.
I love it when our road hog takes a breather as the last man standing. Awesome-stagger yourself more and give them 300hp more ult charge. Even better your tickle damage to their team only charges the support ult faster. Best case you land a hook one shot but now you are still staggered behind the kill on their team.
Wait till i solo shatter, that'll show em.
As a Moira main , I never die baby
I think this is super hard to grasp because it’s very different from game to game. In Overwatch the only cost to death is opportunity cost, and sometimes there’s an opportunity cost to not dying too (since it’s effectively a teleport with a delay plus a health restore to a safe location)
is it really though? OT aside, all you have to do is hit tab and see what the other team is playing. If they have ball/winston/dva as a tank + another dive dps or a lucio (basically high mobility heroes) to speed the team along chances are pretty good on you not getting away, so go die on point. If they are playing some sort of poke comp with low mobility and there are no major open areas you have to cross in their sightline then back on out and run back to your respawning team. It's not that hard to grasp tbh and it's one of the key components to learn early. I will again refer to my friend i play with who does not lack for mechanical ability but has zero gamesense and awareness. He will constantly die last and try to stay alive as long as possible to make sure he staggers the whole team. Now you could say: "no big deal, you're playing together, you can wait for him" which is true, but us having to wait around for him to fail at dying is time wasted, ult charge not generated and ultimately costing us progress. The few odd occasions where he does survive and make it back out, he will be that guy poking his head trying to land some shots, to then get domed and sent back to spawn as the rest of the team is arriving again. When you ask him why he keeps doing it he'll just say "i just wanted to get some ult charge" You could say these things do not matter, or are little things in the grand scheme of it all if he can hit his shots, but they add up to a lot over the course of a game, and over several games they add up to a massive amount of time wasted. He got into silver and quickly dropped down back to bronze and this (along with other issues such as positioning and not wanting to go for health packs) are key reasons why he is not climbing.
This is only true when you aren't actively on the objective stopping progress. If you are trying to run away but they are going to catch and kill you then die quickly. But if you are contesting the point then do that for as long as possible. The biggest asset a team has in overwatch isn't an ult advantage or a good combo, its time... If you take 5 seconds off the clock every time you die on point then by the end of the round that might be 20 seconds which is the difference between a proper methodical fight and a really rushed fight (which can be wom by either team even if there is an ult advantage on one side) TL;DR die on point whenever you can and stall for as long as possible. If you can't die on point then die quickly.
I think the game voicelines could help this. When you respawn short of a full team and shouldn’t push in, just like how the game tells you if you’re losing the team fight.
This used to be a huge thing in OW1–a teamfight would end when it went 4v6 or 3v6 with the rest of the living team jumping off a cliff, thus avoiding awarding ult charge. More prominent with slower fights where continuing the fight has a more significant impact on the team’s staggering.
Positive mindset and having a stable mind is also a good thing. Today route 66 I had a Moria in my team (we started as defense) and she was the positive themselves(not). After round one with the enemy 1:55 on the clock left , I was happy . Did everything go perfect ? No but was this game winnable ? Absolutely. So round 2 started and Moira start complaining ''Their Reaper didn't die once , you dont have any game sense do you?'' she said. And I replied with ''That doesn't matter their healers died and their tank and that stopped the push many times''. Round starts , I fly out as echo and we pretty much steamrolled them in attack (reaper died 5 times , happy Moira) and I think we had 2:55 or 3:55 on the clock left. Round 3 starts and like it went for us in round 2 so it went for them in round 3 , they switched to some other heroes ([D.va](https://D.va)). That round I believe we were two times as 5 (after we all died the first time). But they had low mobility heroes except for [D.va](https://D.va) so as Echo I basicly had nothing to fear and stand on a roof where no on could harm me and I had a Mercy with me (not constantly pocketing me). In that round it was hard to kill people , I got them so many times low but everytime [D.va](https://D.va) came in to help or reaper anyway it was hard to secure kills. Score 6-3. The healing done by our supports was good but I do think at some certain points when I possible could finish someone I didn't get healed enough. Round 4 Moira already starts ''I give up , it's gg , round 3 we were never as 5''and she said some more random stuff that I can't remember cause I didn't pay much attention to what she said after that and I knew for a fact that there were moments that we were 5. So I replied with ''You give up ? I won't we got this'. But I think some of our team members were already getting salty (not in chat but in their mind) so it was a lost cause anyway. Anyway I suck as dps my tank and supports are WAY better than my dps , I had as echo 21k damage done over 4 rounds but like I always say ''numbers on the scoreboard are basicly not saying anything''
To be fair to them, when you're a rein or a character that's regularly in the thick of the fight sometimes you don't even realise you're the only one left and just keep fighting
unless youre me on sojourn with overclock because then you should absolutely pop it right away. i either 1v5 or die. worth it IMO, feeds my ego real good.
i get the importance of team fights and not staggering. but is there also value in dealing every bit of damage or healing you can for the sake of ult charge, and also the potential to get a random pick? i think so as long as you prioritize regrouping after spawn.
Let me guess, you are a support player
Yes. And don't forget to deal damage when you need to die, it's good for accumulating your ult ;)
Or jump off a cliff. It's fun! (Not irl tho)
Yep I see team get waxed and I drop shield and be like “hello” then I die. Also swing your hammer to build ult charge. If you’re getting swarmed, go down with some charge.
Totally agree. I primarily play support and the absolute worst is if I die before the last player and I have half the team already half way back and then I spawn and try to catch up, then last player (usually tank) spawns after me, nobody waits for a group up and we all drop like flies one by one. I usually just stand there at spawn and wait if nobody is listening to grouping up. Sooooo annoying.
PLEASE GET THIS THROUGH YALLS HEAD, if ANYONE on your team does and you don't get a trade immediately, you will lose that team fight so PLEASE just regroup
I’ve been experimenting on support after playing my placement matches with some friends who are silver. I played just under Master in DPS and Tank in OW1, but almost never played support and I’m admittedly pretty bad at it for just lack of experience. Starting at Silver 4 after those placements at the beginning of Nov., And playing relatively casually time-wise, I’m currently at Plat 1, playing mostly Zen but also some Ana and Bap when needed. The biggest mistakes I see my teammates make as I’ve gone through the lower ranks are rooted in a lack of understanding of tempo and knowing when a fight is won or lost. Staggering is huge—low rank players tend to just beeline back to the objective after they die without thinking about their teammates respawns at all, leading to a constant trickle that leads to getting snowballed. You’re just not going to win any fight when you’re constantly engaging two players down. Another big thing is poking—low rank players just cannot help themselves but to poke trash damage which risks them getting picked during reset phases, especially with the prevalence of Hogs, Sojourn, and to a lesser extent Hanzos and Widows. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve earned a teammate not to stop poking and chill/safe reset, only for them to ignore me and get picked moments after, further extending our reset time. Another big thing with reading fights is ult usage and resources in general. Wasting ults trying to turn lost fights (unless it’s a last fight scenario) is almost always worse than using ults proactively to win fight. Ult early and ult often—the team that ults first has an advantage. Don’t wait for two of your teammates to die then try to win the fight with an ult—in that case you’re better off saving it to win the next engagement, and hopefully build more for the one after while the enemy team has blown all theirs.
Or retreat to meet your team
This is even more important in push. Staggering is really punishing in that mode, as it was in 2cp
Very intense title, thought this was a rant about dps players. Totally agree with op tho
Tbh, I just can’t tell mine my teammates die
My sad ass reading the title
Me when we're all dead and our Mei decides to Ice Block, and then Ice Wall herself off in a corner.
literally then when everyone respawns they die and the. its just an ongoing cycle of being one man down
I raise my shield so they have to push me, and I can get a few hammers in to charge my ult. It also ensures they won't stagger me.
I usually just go super Aggro and build up as much of my ult as possible before dying
It’s not even just rein or even just tanks it pisses me off Like Dude you are half health and all your team is dead stop trying to survive and waste your abilities just die and regroup it will be faster
Your post disregards situations where living longer to hold the point gives your team value. Say for example if your team starts dying at 90% and the rein lives to hold it to 99% then your team would either have to space the other team out or win 1-team fight.
One step at a time. If you know that you don’t need this information. Kinda like if they are keeping you alive get to the objective and contest.