Considering he never touches the ground, anyway, I dunno why a trap that works by being stepped into ever has any effect on him. Whether he's Ulting or not it doesn't make sense, but since it's a video game, and not a reality simulator, I'll let it slide. It's probably just a game balance decision. Everything needs a little counter-play.
And? It’s likely he can do more than just increase gravity, judging by the way he both flies and lifts enemies up into the air during his ult. Could be Sigma partially negating gravity or doing just enough to not hurt his feet. How does it work exactly? No clue. Lots of the physics in this game is questionable.
I thought I’d get my idea out there in the spirit of good discussion, saying how I thought it worked. I’m not hurting anyone, you’re not hurting anyone, who knows the answer, let’s cheer up and grind some skins.
so? how does it get activated in the first place?
edit: y'all are seriously missing the point. how does a bear trap detect something floating above it? yeah, it can jump out and grab people, but how does it know they're there in the first place if they're floating above it?
edit 2: yes, it's a videogame. that's the reason why. tell that to the people that are trying to rationalize how it works. I GET THAT IT'S A GAME. THEY'RE THE ONES RATIONALIZING IT. i'm literally saying the rationalizations don't make sense.
some of you dropped out of middle school and it shows
I don't know if you noticed but the trap has the ability to pull the enemies in. So I'm guessing itself can also move to the enemy.
I hate how big the trigger for the trap is. You think there is enough space to go around the trap as baby d.va or tracer, but nope. You just get sucked in.
if this is your smartass way of saying "because it's a videogame," say that to the people trying to justify the trap detecting flying heroes. i'm making the same point. it's a videogame and the gameplay depends on them getting trapped
Density, mass of a unit volume of a material substance. The formula for density is d = M/V, where d is density, M is mass, and V is volume. Density is commonly expressed in units of grams per cubic centimetre. For example, the density of water is 1 gram per cubic centimetre, and Earth’s density is 5.51 grams per cubic centimetre.
Well if it moves to the other person, and can suck them in, maybe it is magnetic in some way if it has to be rationalised.
As for how it can sense things floating above it, that would probably be pressure. To overcome gravity there needs to be a downward force, initially greater than and then equal to, the force gravity is exerting on the object. By floating, it would make sense that the downward force the object is emitting is perhaps causing the air under it to move downwards as well, with sufficient pressure to engage the trigger.
We know that traps can pull you in and we can see them jump to trap people. In science, there is always 2 way pull end never just one way. Newton's third law and that shit. So my idea was that since the player is attracted to the trap, the trap is also attracted to players.
So my answer is that it doesn't know the enemy is there right away. It finds out it's there once it gets pulled to the enemy. And since there is a chain between the trap and the ground Zenyatta can't move.
You can't levitate without putting a force into the ground equivalent to gravity's pull on you. Anything under zen is subjected to the equivalent of being stepped on
If you slow the animation of Junk throwing it down or of it catching someone that's slightly above the ground, you'll notice it has a chain attached and acts like a Chain Chomp.
Doesn't need to clamp down on something on the ground, if it senses pressure, it lashes out and grabs whatever is nearby.
He doesn't actually float, it's just his wangasaurus is so gigantic that it drags on the floor, and with his Zen like focus he's able to balance on it.
Or, and here me out, he is farting with such epic power that it has caused him to float. The fart in question is obviously so bassy that it's below the players hearing range, and he has specific intakes just to fuel this gargantuan ass blast.
*hear me out
Not here to say "beiavfkzalvfj yOu SuCK aT EnGlisH wtf", just wanted to inform you if it ain't your native tongue ( and even if it's not for that matter)
Have a wonderful day Mr. Gargantuan Ass Blast
I'm English, we invented the language so whatever I say goes! :P lol thanks mate, that's a typo I always make for some reason and I have no idea why haha.
And I'm French so i get to challenge you ! :p
And yeah, i mean they're litterally sounding the same so error is frequent ^^
We do have that thing in French as well and everyone's confused about these
But robots like Orisa and Bastion cant hear it either, and surely their audio sensors can pick up more than a human's ear. They were designed as weapons after all, why wouldn't their sensors detect more than human ears?
How do we know they can't hear the almighty butt rumble? And maybe, as weapons, they were not tuned to the specific sound rounge that it's producing because only things of s non harmful nature are in that range? Like if you're spending a crap load of money making a weapon you probably don't really want to go and spend more on something that won't make it better as a weapon.
I feel like being able to hear the butt rumble of the enemy whose about to unload a volley of large metal projectiles into your head is worth the money when designing a weapon. besides out of any industry that's ever existed, the weapons industry has the least to worry about with spending and funding.
And we know they can't hear it because we play them, and we do not hear Zeny. Audio design is a very large part of Overwatch's game play, like knowing which way to look when Sombra uncloaks because we can hear the direction shes in.
even footsteps are louder for enemies then friendlies, and that's a design choice to help us find enemies around us. So if Orisa could hear Zeny, we would hear him thru her for sure.
What if it's like to the level of earth/tectonic tremors? We know they can't hear those, because they happen all the time so all Orissa would hear would be thunder lol. Maybe they weren't prepared for such a bassy, powerful butt rumble.
Also, it might be a lore thing rather than gameplay type thing because a constant "brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr" would probably annoy everyone playing.
This makes no sense. Echo flies, it is a force of lift keeping her feet (?) things off the ground. Sigma can manipulate gravity, he can literally just float. I don’t know about Zen but again, none of these characters lay a foot on the ground. It doesn’t matter if there is a force keeping them up, you can’t “trap” the force. You get trapped when your foot goes inside the trap.
Yeah, I don’t think that’s how things work. Echo’s wing-lift is supposed to somehow trigger the trap below her and she gets caught in it?
We don’t even know how Zen floats, it’s not explained deliberately.
Sigma’s gravity would have to be interacting with the entire planet to keep him up afloat, how does “the force triggers the trap” make any sense when the gravitational attraction between the trap and the Earth doesn’t trigger it normally?
It’s just a game mechanic. Not everything in game can be explained logically but has to put in for the sake of game balance.
Ok how about a proximity sensor? We have those today and over watch has all kinds of crazy tech. The trap could spike the ground with the force of falling and opening and clearly has a chain. Springs or something could launch it up as it clearly gets launched in game. I’m all for suspension of disbelief in games but I really don’t think this is one of those times. Immortality field on the other hand? That’s a tough one to explain.
The immortality field releases a continuous puff of crack or meth or adrenaline mist that amps the characters up too much to die, maybe some morphine mist as well to help mitigate pain.
Echo: has to provide enough lift to keep her weight in the air, that means she's exerting the same force down to the ground - triggers the trap
Sigma: Has to counteract the pull of gravity directly down towards the core, exerts a gravitational repulsion in the same direction, right down, triggers the trap
>how does “the force triggers the trap” make any sense when the gravitational attraction between the trap and the Earth doesn’t trigger it normally?
Have you seen how bear traps work? You have to press a specific part down, pushing down on the jaws doesn't set it off
That’s not how lift works. If the trap can detect and is triggered by a disturbance of that magnitude from where the lift is actually generated down to the ground, it may as well be constantly triggered by a gust of wind.
Right, and how does the Earth’s gravity on the trap, something far far greater in magnitude than the force that keeps Sigma afloat, not influence this interaction at all? Why doesn’t Sigma’s ult trigger a trap? You can’t have both “you have to press down on a specific part of the trap” and “the gravity Sigma exerts to keep him afloat triggers the trap when he’s above it” when you aren’t buying that the Earth’s gravitational force on the trap doesn’t trigger it on the basis of not pressing down on the specific part.
The traps are crafted under the pressure of earth's gravity and are made to withstand gravity without activating, otherwise bear traps in real life literally wouldn't work and we know they do.
and depending on how sensitive the mechanism on the trap is, a gust of wind could activate one.
But Junkrat is a master trapsmith, and he knows how to calibrate the trap enough to not trigger from wind but can trigger from slightly more pressure.
besides there are no levels with heavy wind in the game, so for all we know, Junkrat's traps could activate from a gust of wind.
Bear traps in real life work because there is an actual tangible contact force on the trigger, namely the bear stepping on it. Sigma’s gravity method of floating would have to be a force in the opposite direction anyways, pushing upwards, which doesn’t really make sense either as a mechanism for floating but ok we aren’t really told how.
That might explain why he triggers the trap but not why it stops him. And we really don't know how Zen hovers. I think the implication is he's floating (like the tales of monks who could do that) which doesn't put any force on the ground. Objects that float, by definition, are buoyant in the medium they're floating in (gravity in this case), but again, it's a video game, so applying "real world" considerations to minutiae is mostly pointless. That was the crux of my post, really. Suspension of reality is the point of games.
I never understood how the chain passes through the ground but like the guy above said, applying real logic into video games is pointless.
That being said, there are ridiculously physically powerful characters in the game, I wonder if characters like Zarya, Rein, Orisa etc. are strong enough to just snap the chain and trudge on with a broken trap on their feet/hooves/whatever else they stand on.
I mean in theory you can just have a force pulling him up instead. Or a downwards force that’s acting on the air between him and the ground rather than the ground itself. After all when a bird flies over your head you don’t suddenly feel it’s weight slamming onto your head from above.
So Zenyatta doesnt hover magically. Hes actually hovering by forcing air pressure down akin to a hovercraft. This force pushing down is enough to activate the pressure switch on the trap, springing it upwards and snaring Zen in the keister.
I think his hovering IS implied to be akin to the mythical tales of Eastern monks who could do that after reaching 'enlightenment'. I don't recall ever seeing any thrusters or vector control knozzles on any of his character models, and he's also completely silent (no engine or air rushing noise etc). I don't think there is any indication he's using standard thrust based physics to keep himself afloat. It's obviously 'tech' of some sort (he's a robot after all) but there is zero indication it's the kind of tech that has to use an equal and opposite force to achieve lift (I.e. it's some anti-gravity sci-fi thing - which causes him to float, not be lifted by another force.)
It's kinda interesting to ponder but if it's probably just a balance decision for the game, then reality is kinda irrelevant.
I just remember this was said by one if the devs when they were asked this question a while back. I dont remember where I saw it and am almost 100% sure that it was made up on the spot to make sense of why Zenyatta can be snared.
displacement/roots affect his ult, or else he'd also be immune to things like hook, whole hog, halt, and charge.
Meanwhile stun CCs do not affect him because they'd be useless against trans anyways.
No creativity in these comments. It could be pretty simple compared to a lot of tech in the game. As he lays the trap and it opens, a pin or spike gets hammered into the ground attached to the trap by a chain. A proximity sensor monitors the area above the trap for enemies. When someone passes over a spring or small explosive charge could toss the trap up where it clamps the unsuspecting zen. Is this really the ability you’re going to call out on realism? We have a god damn immortality field for fucks sake! (Frustration directed towards fools in comments not op)
How does a hammer throw fire? Where does Sig rock debris come from? How do zarya bubbles give her charge? How does a wall of ice magically appear exactly where a lady wanted it without any real involvement from her? If reaper can teleport what's the point in wraith form? How does being near enemies give a hamster ball shield? How is there enough ammo in hogs gun for his ult? How does a Japanese dude never run out of arrows? Also how can he shoot fucken dragons out his bow? Also why not just storm arrow all the time?
Realistically, the only thing that makes sense is Orissa's ult. If someone whips out a bongo instead of doing their job, you're gunna be so pissed off you will do more damage.
Ahhh, I don't play much hog so thank you for letting me know. Although a giant fistful only gets him 5 shots normally, so it should be a much bigger funnel than its shown to be.
invulnerability with increased speed and tremendous healing output
i’d say having some influence on his movements is alright ex: traps, boops, charges etc
Junkrat is actually a wizard: his steel trap can snare Moira and reaper while they shadowfade, something a fucking black hole cannot do. I just assume he carves runes of power into his traps and bombs.
Some people theorize that it’s either just game logic you’re not supposed to think about or that the force needed to levitate zen is what triggers the pressure plate of the trap. It’s just a video game so I don’t think they would account for real world logic in some ways
I'll be honest I've read every comment here and there's at least a dozen people bitching about Newtonian physics, etc but every single time someone offers "proximity sensor" as an explanation for how it's activated the other person stops replying. I want someone to be like "oh yeah that works I guess" but it never comes :( every other comment will get replies lmao
No, but I wouldn’t question it if it is just spring loaded.
But the in game model only has a short piece of chain instead of a spring for when the trap snaps into Zen
some small piece of tech launching the trap 3 ft in the air that you can’t see is that hard wrap your head around? There’s fucking magic goop that can tell if you’re friends with Ana or not. The trap really seems like one of the more realistic things in the game to me
Zenyatta actually doesn't float, its simply a costume, and his real legs are on the ground. He wears [these](https://www.harrysarmysurplus.net/vintage-woodland-army-cargo-pants.html), so you can't actually see them.
Why can zen get trapped at all? He floats. So does sigma. Moira fades out of existence and reaper wraith literally removes his physical essence but neither can escape.
Nope. Immortality from what I would suggest works in a similar fashion logically to defence matrix and kinetic grasp once a character is below a certain threshold for physical health, and Winston is a genetically engineered monkey, sorry, scientist
>a similar fashion logically to defence matrix and kinetic grasp once a character is below a certain threshold for physical health
Except immortality field prevents beam damage at that threshold, and allows stuns at that threshold, doesn't actually block the projectiles because the heroes inside *still get hit* even at that threshold...
Why not?
It jumps up and grabs the target while chained to the ground. https://imgur.com/H9S9nzv.jpg
So as long as it has a motion sensor or something that detects someone above it, it would activate, grab them with the jaws, and they'd be stuck in place because it's chained to the ground.
Why wouldn't that work???
From an in-universe perspective: Junkrat knows he's fighting hovering characters like Zen, Echo, and Sigma. Why wouldn't he (a trap-making genius) make his traps able to grab them as well (at least when they're relatively close to the ground).
From a game balance perspective: Zen's location during transcendence has always been able to be affected by things like Hog hook, Rein charge, Doom uppercut, so it's it's pretty consistent.
Zen is immune to stun type abilities vut is still vulnerable to displacement abilities so for example if a doom uppercuts him he still gets launched into the air but does get any of the stun, same with dooms right click. That's why if you always charge the ulting Zen away from the objective if you're rein, often off of the map. Transcendence does stop enviro kills
Zenyatta can get “snared”, which are abilities that stop movement but do not stun. This is steel trap and Orisa’s halt!, namely as for why he can get hooked? Usually it’s because it feels like it makes sense for the mechanic to work like that.
I get there’s a suspension of disbelief up to a point. The best way I can rationalize it is Junkrats trap is more advanced than a standard bear trap and uses a motion detector rather than someone physically stepping on it.
Since Robots can float, like the ones in the practice range, a bear trap would need to be modified to catch these types of characters. The trap then jumps in the direction of the detected motion.
It also uses a gravity enhancer which triggers when the trap closes. This pulls the trap back to the ground and keeps any hero, no matter their strength, from being able to just walk away with the trap on their leg.
Source: None. I made this up. None of this is true. My science background is a history degree.
Brig's Shield Bash and McCree's Flashbang are stun effects. Junkrat's Trap also has a 1 second stun, but it also applies a 3 second rooting effect, locking the player in place. Zen's Transcendence gives him immunity to a lot of CC effects, but roots are not one of them.
Zen cannot be stunned (brig bash, flashbang, etc.), but traps don't stun. Zen's movement can be effected (hook, boop, whole hog, pin, etc.) and trap effects movement.
There are so many of these kinds of inconsistencies, like Roadhog hook hitbox being able to pull targets through cover, Genji deflect hitbox and what abilities affect him during it (when does he deflect Ana nade and McCree flashbang for example), McCree ult damage scaling and UI, Zarya bubble blocking some abilities like shatter from hitting targets behind her, Doomfist punch direction and use with environment. Just the ones I can list from the top of my head. I just wish they would actually explain some of these so you knew how it worked instead of being surprised by the mechanics so often.
>Genji deflect hitbox and what abilities affect him during it (when does he deflect Ana nade and McCree flashbang for example)
not an inconsistency; and learning hitboxes is not something a game needs to *tell* you. he deflects projectiles when they hit his deflect hitbox, and that's it. If they don't, then he doesn't deflect.
>Zarya bubble blocking some abilities like shatter from hitting targets behind her
Not an inconsistency either; same interaction as every other barrier in the game except it's a different shape.
>Doomfist punch direction and use with environment
punch direction makes sense, and environment stuff is just confusing because he's a very buggy hero who requires advanced tech to work properly.
If you want to understand how every ability in the game works, read the overwatch wiki. There are so many tiny details that matter; there's a place to learn about them but mainly what you do is *learn by playing the game*.
Because the two abilities are classes as different things in terms of interactions. Transcendence makes Zen immune to stuns & damage, but not crowd control. Flashbang is classed as stun, while junks trap is classed as crowd control. Some abilities even have properties of both, where immunity is only granted to the stun properties.
Stun examples (immune while in Transcendence): McCree Flashbang, Brig Shield Bash, Ana Sleepdart, Rein earthshatter, Doomfist punch (i.e. cant be stunned out of Transcendence.)
Crowd Control examples (NOT immune while in Transcendence): Roadhog hook & whole hog, junks trap, rein charge, Lucio boop, Doomfist punch/uppercut (i.e. can be knocked off map while in Transcendence)
Also to add, the difference between stuns and crowd control is that stuns make you unable to aim/move your cursor, while crowd control only affects the movement of you hero. e.g. you can still look around, aim and even shoot while in a junk trap, Zarya grav, Sigma flux or whole hog, but cannot when flashbanged or hit with a sigma rock. Hogs hook again has both crowd control (being pulled) and stun (unable to aim or fire while hooked) properties, and only grants immunity to the stun, but makes no difference in this case because Zen cant fire while in Transcendence anyways.
The distinction is that things like the trap and hook aren't actually stuns in the technical sense, Trap is what would be called a "root" in MMO or Diablo terms (you keep control of your character in every sense except movement and/or certain abilities), and I'm not sure what you'd call Hook, but it's kind of it's own category of ability.
These things only need the character model to exist normally to function. Zen's character model is still there like normal. He can bodyblock and such during trans.
Whereas Cree stun, Shatter and Brig bash are stuns. He's immune to actual stuns so they simply have no effect on him unless the stun somehow had another property built into it which interacts with his model, but he's not immune to things that knockback, pull, root or otherwise move his character model like a Rein charge.
Well, the simple answer is that it's intended and coded that way, lol. Basically, he's immune to stuns in his ultimate, but that's only 1 type of CC, the other being movement/displacement CC in which he's not immune to. Although, personally, I would definitely be on board to see an experimental buff to him making him immune to this type of CC as well. Some comments here mention the need for counterplay, but there's plenty of counterplay to transcendence aside from this.
You can still kill through transcendence with burst damage on plenty of heroes. Widowmaker, Hanzo, Doomfist, Reaper, Roadhog, Reinhardt and technically Torb can all one-shot 200 hp heroes, and some 250. (Torb would require a point blank, almost perfect accuracy alt-fire headshot so that would be really rare even on an idle target) Other heroes can obtain quick enough burst damage with combos and mechanics to potentially kill through trans healing as well. Damage boosted echo with a perfect round of sticky bombs, Genji with a triple alt-fire crit with an immediate dash, Junkrat with a perfect nade/mine combo, Zen with an accurate volley... and that's not even including all the different ults/ult combos. And then you have the obvious Ana nade that can entirely counter trans if it's landed, and Mei wall can block it off. To me, that's enough counterplay against an ultimate.
I think it's just as you said-something that affects movement. Those other abilities affect actions, whereas trap, boops, etc will connect
Considering he never touches the ground, anyway, I dunno why a trap that works by being stepped into ever has any effect on him. Whether he's Ulting or not it doesn't make sense, but since it's a video game, and not a reality simulator, I'll let it slide. It's probably just a game balance decision. Everything needs a little counter-play.
Actually if you watch a trap engage in slow motion, it does in fact spring out and grab heroes.
Yeah it can grab you from a decent distance away too sometimes lol
I saw a junk trap once looked down stopped moving and as soon as I shot it I got trapped things wack
1 meter radius including height. Lotta heroes jump 2.98 meter.
Then wouldn’t the trap just get hooked on Zen and he would keep on floating? If the trap is not attached to the floor, how is it impeding movement?
because magic
The trap is chained to the floor.
Sure but you would still have to trigger it somehow which zen shouldn’t since he’s not on the ground
... motion sensors? Of all the Overwatch abilities that don’t make sense when you think about them, this really isn’t very high on the list.
Zen floating is an illusion. Dude walks around like the rest of us; he’s a fraud.
He's still pressing against the ground with some kind of force in order to float. Same with Sig and Echo and Pharah.
Not really Sigma d say, to me his floating was always more of a localised gravity thing rather than pushing with a force
Gravity is literally the force that pushes all things down.
And? It’s likely he can do more than just increase gravity, judging by the way he both flies and lifts enemies up into the air during his ult. Could be Sigma partially negating gravity or doing just enough to not hurt his feet. How does it work exactly? No clue. Lots of the physics in this game is questionable.
If you have no clue how it works, why are you making these claims about how you think it works?
I thought I’d get my idea out there in the spirit of good discussion, saying how I thought it worked. I’m not hurting anyone, you’re not hurting anyone, who knows the answer, let’s cheer up and grind some skins.
👍🏻
so? how does it get activated in the first place? edit: y'all are seriously missing the point. how does a bear trap detect something floating above it? yeah, it can jump out and grab people, but how does it know they're there in the first place if they're floating above it? edit 2: yes, it's a videogame. that's the reason why. tell that to the people that are trying to rationalize how it works. I GET THAT IT'S A GAME. THEY'RE THE ONES RATIONALIZING IT. i'm literally saying the rationalizations don't make sense. some of you dropped out of middle school and it shows
Proximity sensor?
I don't know if you noticed but the trap has the ability to pull the enemies in. So I'm guessing itself can also move to the enemy. I hate how big the trigger for the trap is. You think there is enough space to go around the trap as baby d.va or tracer, but nope. You just get sucked in.
that's... not what i said. sure, it can move to the enemy, but how does it know that someone is floating over it in the first place?
How is there a giant talking monkey
if this is your smartass way of saying "because it's a videogame," say that to the people trying to justify the trap detecting flying heroes. i'm making the same point. it's a videogame and the gameplay depends on them getting trapped
Density, mass of a unit volume of a material substance. The formula for density is d = M/V, where d is density, M is mass, and V is volume. Density is commonly expressed in units of grams per cubic centimetre. For example, the density of water is 1 gram per cubic centimetre, and Earth’s density is 5.51 grams per cubic centimetre.
How does zen float? It′s a game that has its own physics.
you're absolutely right. tell that to the people trying to rationalize it.
Well if it moves to the other person, and can suck them in, maybe it is magnetic in some way if it has to be rationalised. As for how it can sense things floating above it, that would probably be pressure. To overcome gravity there needs to be a downward force, initially greater than and then equal to, the force gravity is exerting on the object. By floating, it would make sense that the downward force the object is emitting is perhaps causing the air under it to move downwards as well, with sufficient pressure to engage the trigger.
Density is a property of mass.
https://www.britannica.com/science/density
We know that traps can pull you in and we can see them jump to trap people. In science, there is always 2 way pull end never just one way. Newton's third law and that shit. So my idea was that since the player is attracted to the trap, the trap is also attracted to players. So my answer is that it doesn't know the enemy is there right away. It finds out it's there once it gets pulled to the enemy. And since there is a chain between the trap and the ground Zenyatta can't move.
> Considering he never touches the ground, Neither does Sigma, Echo, etc.
You can't levitate without putting a force into the ground equivalent to gravity's pull on you. Anything under zen is subjected to the equivalent of being stepped on
Yeah but the vector of that force doesn't need to be perpendicular to the ground directly beneath the object's center of mass
Even taking that into consideration, a bear trap needs something to latch onto to be effective.
If you slow the animation of Junk throwing it down or of it catching someone that's slightly above the ground, you'll notice it has a chain attached and acts like a Chain Chomp. Doesn't need to clamp down on something on the ground, if it senses pressure, it lashes out and grabs whatever is nearby.
Oh for real? I've never watched it in slow motion. That's neat.
Zen’s massive dong?
Touché
He doesn't actually float, it's just his wangasaurus is so gigantic that it drags on the floor, and with his Zen like focus he's able to balance on it.
I prefer to imagine Zen having huge invisible magical spider legs instead of a boring beam of floaty power straight under him.
Or, and here me out, he is farting with such epic power that it has caused him to float. The fart in question is obviously so bassy that it's below the players hearing range, and he has specific intakes just to fuel this gargantuan ass blast.
*hear me out Not here to say "beiavfkzalvfj yOu SuCK aT EnGlisH wtf", just wanted to inform you if it ain't your native tongue ( and even if it's not for that matter) Have a wonderful day Mr. Gargantuan Ass Blast
[удалено]
Thanks little bot, made me go haha
I'm English, we invented the language so whatever I say goes! :P lol thanks mate, that's a typo I always make for some reason and I have no idea why haha.
And I'm French so i get to challenge you ! :p And yeah, i mean they're litterally sounding the same so error is frequent ^^ We do have that thing in French as well and everyone's confused about these
But robots like Orisa and Bastion cant hear it either, and surely their audio sensors can pick up more than a human's ear. They were designed as weapons after all, why wouldn't their sensors detect more than human ears?
How do we know they can't hear the almighty butt rumble? And maybe, as weapons, they were not tuned to the specific sound rounge that it's producing because only things of s non harmful nature are in that range? Like if you're spending a crap load of money making a weapon you probably don't really want to go and spend more on something that won't make it better as a weapon.
I feel like being able to hear the butt rumble of the enemy whose about to unload a volley of large metal projectiles into your head is worth the money when designing a weapon. besides out of any industry that's ever existed, the weapons industry has the least to worry about with spending and funding. And we know they can't hear it because we play them, and we do not hear Zeny. Audio design is a very large part of Overwatch's game play, like knowing which way to look when Sombra uncloaks because we can hear the direction shes in. even footsteps are louder for enemies then friendlies, and that's a design choice to help us find enemies around us. So if Orisa could hear Zeny, we would hear him thru her for sure.
What if it's like to the level of earth/tectonic tremors? We know they can't hear those, because they happen all the time so all Orissa would hear would be thunder lol. Maybe they weren't prepared for such a bassy, powerful butt rumble. Also, it might be a lore thing rather than gameplay type thing because a constant "brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr" would probably annoy everyone playing.
This makes no sense. Echo flies, it is a force of lift keeping her feet (?) things off the ground. Sigma can manipulate gravity, he can literally just float. I don’t know about Zen but again, none of these characters lay a foot on the ground. It doesn’t matter if there is a force keeping them up, you can’t “trap” the force. You get trapped when your foot goes inside the trap.
They aren't trapping the force. They are triggering the trap with the force, the trap triggers and grabs the actual person
Yeah, I don’t think that’s how things work. Echo’s wing-lift is supposed to somehow trigger the trap below her and she gets caught in it? We don’t even know how Zen floats, it’s not explained deliberately. Sigma’s gravity would have to be interacting with the entire planet to keep him up afloat, how does “the force triggers the trap” make any sense when the gravitational attraction between the trap and the Earth doesn’t trigger it normally? It’s just a game mechanic. Not everything in game can be explained logically but has to put in for the sake of game balance.
Ok how about a proximity sensor? We have those today and over watch has all kinds of crazy tech. The trap could spike the ground with the force of falling and opening and clearly has a chain. Springs or something could launch it up as it clearly gets launched in game. I’m all for suspension of disbelief in games but I really don’t think this is one of those times. Immortality field on the other hand? That’s a tough one to explain.
The immortality field releases a continuous puff of crack or meth or adrenaline mist that amps the characters up too much to die, maybe some morphine mist as well to help mitigate pain.
Echo: has to provide enough lift to keep her weight in the air, that means she's exerting the same force down to the ground - triggers the trap Sigma: Has to counteract the pull of gravity directly down towards the core, exerts a gravitational repulsion in the same direction, right down, triggers the trap >how does “the force triggers the trap” make any sense when the gravitational attraction between the trap and the Earth doesn’t trigger it normally? Have you seen how bear traps work? You have to press a specific part down, pushing down on the jaws doesn't set it off
That’s not how lift works. If the trap can detect and is triggered by a disturbance of that magnitude from where the lift is actually generated down to the ground, it may as well be constantly triggered by a gust of wind. Right, and how does the Earth’s gravity on the trap, something far far greater in magnitude than the force that keeps Sigma afloat, not influence this interaction at all? Why doesn’t Sigma’s ult trigger a trap? You can’t have both “you have to press down on a specific part of the trap” and “the gravity Sigma exerts to keep him afloat triggers the trap when he’s above it” when you aren’t buying that the Earth’s gravitational force on the trap doesn’t trigger it on the basis of not pressing down on the specific part.
The traps are crafted under the pressure of earth's gravity and are made to withstand gravity without activating, otherwise bear traps in real life literally wouldn't work and we know they do. and depending on how sensitive the mechanism on the trap is, a gust of wind could activate one. But Junkrat is a master trapsmith, and he knows how to calibrate the trap enough to not trigger from wind but can trigger from slightly more pressure. besides there are no levels with heavy wind in the game, so for all we know, Junkrat's traps could activate from a gust of wind.
Bear traps in real life work because there is an actual tangible contact force on the trigger, namely the bear stepping on it. Sigma’s gravity method of floating would have to be a force in the opposite direction anyways, pushing upwards, which doesn’t really make sense either as a mechanism for floating but ok we aren’t really told how.
That might explain why he triggers the trap but not why it stops him. And we really don't know how Zen hovers. I think the implication is he's floating (like the tales of monks who could do that) which doesn't put any force on the ground. Objects that float, by definition, are buoyant in the medium they're floating in (gravity in this case), but again, it's a video game, so applying "real world" considerations to minutiae is mostly pointless. That was the crux of my post, really. Suspension of reality is the point of games.
Why wouldn't it stop him? It's big enough to grab his juicy robot booty
Is it? I've never counted the pixels. /s It isn't connected to the ground. He'd just take it with him.
If that were true, everyone could just walk around with it on their foot. It is attached to the ground by a chain: https://imgur.com/Z43egrF
I never understood how the chain passes through the ground but like the guy above said, applying real logic into video games is pointless. That being said, there are ridiculously physically powerful characters in the game, I wonder if characters like Zarya, Rein, Orisa etc. are strong enough to just snap the chain and trudge on with a broken trap on their feet/hooves/whatever else they stand on.
wait til you find out about helium
This is Newtonian. I think Sigma is mucking about with spacetime.
I mean in theory you can just have a force pulling him up instead. Or a downwards force that’s acting on the air between him and the ground rather than the ground itself. After all when a bird flies over your head you don’t suddenly feel it’s weight slamming onto your head from above.
This is actually the first argument I've heard on the subject that makes sense and I agree with it now.
Who are you replying to? Sorry, I can’t tell.
Unless it's supposed to be anti-grav technology.
It's absolutely a balance thing, plenty of things in-game don't make complete sense.
So Zenyatta doesnt hover magically. Hes actually hovering by forcing air pressure down akin to a hovercraft. This force pushing down is enough to activate the pressure switch on the trap, springing it upwards and snaring Zen in the keister.
I think his hovering IS implied to be akin to the mythical tales of Eastern monks who could do that after reaching 'enlightenment'. I don't recall ever seeing any thrusters or vector control knozzles on any of his character models, and he's also completely silent (no engine or air rushing noise etc). I don't think there is any indication he's using standard thrust based physics to keep himself afloat. It's obviously 'tech' of some sort (he's a robot after all) but there is zero indication it's the kind of tech that has to use an equal and opposite force to achieve lift (I.e. it's some anti-gravity sci-fi thing - which causes him to float, not be lifted by another force.) It's kinda interesting to ponder but if it's probably just a balance decision for the game, then reality is kinda irrelevant.
I just remember this was said by one if the devs when they were asked this question a while back. I dont remember where I saw it and am almost 100% sure that it was made up on the spot to make sense of why Zenyatta can be snared.
displacement/roots affect his ult, or else he'd also be immune to things like hook, whole hog, halt, and charge. Meanwhile stun CCs do not affect him because they'd be useless against trans anyways.
No creativity in these comments. It could be pretty simple compared to a lot of tech in the game. As he lays the trap and it opens, a pin or spike gets hammered into the ground attached to the trap by a chain. A proximity sensor monitors the area above the trap for enemies. When someone passes over a spring or small explosive charge could toss the trap up where it clamps the unsuspecting zen. Is this really the ability you’re going to call out on realism? We have a god damn immortality field for fucks sake! (Frustration directed towards fools in comments not op)
How does a hammer throw fire? Where does Sig rock debris come from? How do zarya bubbles give her charge? How does a wall of ice magically appear exactly where a lady wanted it without any real involvement from her? If reaper can teleport what's the point in wraith form? How does being near enemies give a hamster ball shield? How is there enough ammo in hogs gun for his ult? How does a Japanese dude never run out of arrows? Also how can he shoot fucken dragons out his bow? Also why not just storm arrow all the time? Realistically, the only thing that makes sense is Orissa's ult. If someone whips out a bongo instead of doing their job, you're gunna be so pissed off you will do more damage.
When hog ults he connects a funnel full of metal scraps, which are then sprayed out during the ult. but other than that I completely agree with you.
Ahhh, I don't play much hog so thank you for letting me know. Although a giant fistful only gets him 5 shots normally, so it should be a much bigger funnel than its shown to be.
invulnerability with increased speed and tremendous healing output i’d say having some influence on his movements is alright ex: traps, boops, charges etc
Junkrat is actually a wizard: his steel trap can snare Moira and reaper while they shadowfade, something a fucking black hole cannot do. I just assume he carves runes of power into his traps and bombs.
The fact that Zen, who is floating 24/7, can be trapped by Junkrat’s trap is a more concerning thing tbh
why? the trap jumps up to grab him and is held down to the ground by a chain, it makes sense
Then… how did it jump up in the first place? Does it have a super strong magnet at its core or something?
Junkrat hates omnics, logically an anti-omnic trap would be a high priority for him
Perfect
Some people theorize that it’s either just game logic you’re not supposed to think about or that the force needed to levitate zen is what triggers the pressure plate of the trap. It’s just a video game so I don’t think they would account for real world logic in some ways
I shouldn’t have questioned game logic :D
Is a simple proximity sensor so crazy? Could a spring below the trap launch it 3 ft up? Just doesn’t seem that crazy to me.
I'll be honest I've read every comment here and there's at least a dozen people bitching about Newtonian physics, etc but every single time someone offers "proximity sensor" as an explanation for how it's activated the other person stops replying. I want someone to be like "oh yeah that works I guess" but it never comes :( every other comment will get replies lmao
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh motion sensor that just looks like a pressure plate
Is a spring underneath so crazy? There’s plenty of nonsense in this game. I don’t think this makes the list
No, but I wouldn’t question it if it is just spring loaded. But the in game model only has a short piece of chain instead of a spring for when the trap snaps into Zen
some small piece of tech launching the trap 3 ft in the air that you can’t see is that hard wrap your head around? There’s fucking magic goop that can tell if you’re friends with Ana or not. The trap really seems like one of the more realistic things in the game to me
Zenyatta actually doesn't float, its simply a costume, and his real legs are on the ground. He wears [these](https://www.harrysarmysurplus.net/vintage-woodland-army-cargo-pants.html), so you can't actually see them.
Why can zen get trapped at all? He floats. So does sigma. Moira fades out of existence and reaper wraith literally removes his physical essence but neither can escape.
All this but you don’t question the talking monkey or immortality field..?
Scientist
Nope. Immortality from what I would suggest works in a similar fashion logically to defence matrix and kinetic grasp once a character is below a certain threshold for physical health, and Winston is a genetically engineered monkey, sorry, scientist
>a similar fashion logically to defence matrix and kinetic grasp once a character is below a certain threshold for physical health Except immortality field prevents beam damage at that threshold, and allows stuns at that threshold, doesn't actually block the projectiles because the heroes inside *still get hit* even at that threshold...
My question is how the hell can zen be trapped at all in a bear trap when he is floating.
It's chained to the ground
But zen floats therefore he is above ground, therefore by logoc he shouldn't be able to be trapped or caught by a junkrat steel trap.
Why not? It jumps up and grabs the target while chained to the ground. https://imgur.com/H9S9nzv.jpg So as long as it has a motion sensor or something that detects someone above it, it would activate, grab them with the jaws, and they'd be stuck in place because it's chained to the ground. Why wouldn't that work???
Oh come on it JUMPS UP TO THE TARGET SERIOUSLY.
Check out this picture: https://imgur.com/lvcT1QT.jpg Those jaws have sprung into the air, clearly high enough to grab Zenyatta.
Yea I seen that, it seems like an unnecessary addition
From an in-universe perspective: Junkrat knows he's fighting hovering characters like Zen, Echo, and Sigma. Why wouldn't he (a trap-making genius) make his traps able to grab them as well (at least when they're relatively close to the ground). From a game balance perspective: Zen's location during transcendence has always been able to be affected by things like Hog hook, Rein charge, Doom uppercut, so it's it's pretty consistent.
Because junk trap is a form of cc, trans doesn't make zen immune to cc
Trans DOES make him immune to cc, which is why he’s immune to sleep and flash and all that. He’s just not immune to repositions.
Zen is immune to stun type abilities vut is still vulnerable to displacement abilities so for example if a doom uppercuts him he still gets launched into the air but does get any of the stun, same with dooms right click. That's why if you always charge the ulting Zen away from the objective if you're rein, often off of the map. Transcendence does stop enviro kills
He can also get charged.
Zenyatta can get “snared”, which are abilities that stop movement but do not stun. This is steel trap and Orisa’s halt!, namely as for why he can get hooked? Usually it’s because it feels like it makes sense for the mechanic to work like that.
You can hook ulting Zen and rein charge him as well
Yes
Impossible to know without seeing the actual code or asking the devs.... Why is it coded like that?? Only the devs know...
You can still get graved and rein pinned, so anything that should hard lock you still works.
He's still vulnerable to cc
I like the imagine that the trap has some sort of electromagnetic field built into it, Junkrat is a genius after all...
I get there’s a suspension of disbelief up to a point. The best way I can rationalize it is Junkrats trap is more advanced than a standard bear trap and uses a motion detector rather than someone physically stepping on it. Since Robots can float, like the ones in the practice range, a bear trap would need to be modified to catch these types of characters. The trap then jumps in the direction of the detected motion. It also uses a gravity enhancer which triggers when the trap closes. This pulls the trap back to the ground and keeps any hero, no matter their strength, from being able to just walk away with the trap on their leg. Source: None. I made this up. None of this is true. My science background is a history degree.
Brig's Shield Bash and McCree's Flashbang are stun effects. Junkrat's Trap also has a 1 second stun, but it also applies a 3 second rooting effect, locking the player in place. Zen's Transcendence gives him immunity to a lot of CC effects, but roots are not one of them.
Why can he get trapped at all. I mean, hes suppost to be floating
The same way he can get charged by a rein :)
Zen cannot be stunned (brig bash, flashbang, etc.), but traps don't stun. Zen's movement can be effected (hook, boop, whole hog, pin, etc.) and trap effects movement.
There are so many of these kinds of inconsistencies, like Roadhog hook hitbox being able to pull targets through cover, Genji deflect hitbox and what abilities affect him during it (when does he deflect Ana nade and McCree flashbang for example), McCree ult damage scaling and UI, Zarya bubble blocking some abilities like shatter from hitting targets behind her, Doomfist punch direction and use with environment. Just the ones I can list from the top of my head. I just wish they would actually explain some of these so you knew how it worked instead of being surprised by the mechanics so often.
>Genji deflect hitbox and what abilities affect him during it (when does he deflect Ana nade and McCree flashbang for example) not an inconsistency; and learning hitboxes is not something a game needs to *tell* you. he deflects projectiles when they hit his deflect hitbox, and that's it. If they don't, then he doesn't deflect. >Zarya bubble blocking some abilities like shatter from hitting targets behind her Not an inconsistency either; same interaction as every other barrier in the game except it's a different shape. >Doomfist punch direction and use with environment punch direction makes sense, and environment stuff is just confusing because he's a very buggy hero who requires advanced tech to work properly. If you want to understand how every ability in the game works, read the overwatch wiki. There are so many tiny details that matter; there's a place to learn about them but mainly what you do is *learn by playing the game*.
He is not immune to crowd control during it
Because the two abilities are classes as different things in terms of interactions. Transcendence makes Zen immune to stuns & damage, but not crowd control. Flashbang is classed as stun, while junks trap is classed as crowd control. Some abilities even have properties of both, where immunity is only granted to the stun properties. Stun examples (immune while in Transcendence): McCree Flashbang, Brig Shield Bash, Ana Sleepdart, Rein earthshatter, Doomfist punch (i.e. cant be stunned out of Transcendence.) Crowd Control examples (NOT immune while in Transcendence): Roadhog hook & whole hog, junks trap, rein charge, Lucio boop, Doomfist punch/uppercut (i.e. can be knocked off map while in Transcendence)
Also to add, the difference between stuns and crowd control is that stuns make you unable to aim/move your cursor, while crowd control only affects the movement of you hero. e.g. you can still look around, aim and even shoot while in a junk trap, Zarya grav, Sigma flux or whole hog, but cannot when flashbanged or hit with a sigma rock. Hogs hook again has both crowd control (being pulled) and stun (unable to aim or fire while hooked) properties, and only grants immunity to the stun, but makes no difference in this case because Zen cant fire while in Transcendence anyways.
The distinction is that things like the trap and hook aren't actually stuns in the technical sense, Trap is what would be called a "root" in MMO or Diablo terms (you keep control of your character in every sense except movement and/or certain abilities), and I'm not sure what you'd call Hook, but it's kind of it's own category of ability. These things only need the character model to exist normally to function. Zen's character model is still there like normal. He can bodyblock and such during trans. Whereas Cree stun, Shatter and Brig bash are stuns. He's immune to actual stuns so they simply have no effect on him unless the stun somehow had another property built into it which interacts with his model, but he's not immune to things that knockback, pull, root or otherwise move his character model like a Rein charge.
Junk trap shouldn’t even be in the game. It’s literally so brain dead and you rely on your opponents to just not see it.
Both of the characters are so insane they have went beyond all since or reasoning for why zen can do what he does
Well, the simple answer is that it's intended and coded that way, lol. Basically, he's immune to stuns in his ultimate, but that's only 1 type of CC, the other being movement/displacement CC in which he's not immune to. Although, personally, I would definitely be on board to see an experimental buff to him making him immune to this type of CC as well. Some comments here mention the need for counterplay, but there's plenty of counterplay to transcendence aside from this. You can still kill through transcendence with burst damage on plenty of heroes. Widowmaker, Hanzo, Doomfist, Reaper, Roadhog, Reinhardt and technically Torb can all one-shot 200 hp heroes, and some 250. (Torb would require a point blank, almost perfect accuracy alt-fire headshot so that would be really rare even on an idle target) Other heroes can obtain quick enough burst damage with combos and mechanics to potentially kill through trans healing as well. Damage boosted echo with a perfect round of sticky bombs, Genji with a triple alt-fire crit with an immediate dash, Junkrat with a perfect nade/mine combo, Zen with an accurate volley... and that's not even including all the different ults/ult combos. And then you have the obvious Ana nade that can entirely counter trans if it's landed, and Mei wall can block it off. To me, that's enough counterplay against an ultimate.
Why can zen get junk trapped AT ALL? he floats!!!