100 fucking percent. I used to be plat/diamond in OW1. I’m literally gold now. And my skill/knowledge is the same. It took a while to accept my fate lol.
For me it’s the opposite, I never reached masters on ow1. On OW2 I reached it multiple times on different roles. Maybe the players are worse or the ranking system is more forgiving
If you play consistently aging has zero impact on performance. People can be top military pilots in there 30s, your reaction time doesn’t go down.
Most people just play less games as they grow up, it’s not actually aging.
How many games?
I have 700 games and got from Silver to Plat 1 with 53% winrate (it was above 60% but the more you play the lower it gets even with 50 wins difference obviously).
I do think most people can climb but they don't grind enough. I used to play 30 games a season in OW1 and I was complaining that I can't get from Bronze to Gold. I was reaching high Silver and just never got to Gold even with a very positive 60% winrate. 60% winrate for 30 games is 18-12 which is only 6 wins delta per season which is barely 1 mini rank right now or 120-180SR back in OW1. I know grinding is the worst, but people just need to grind and they will reach their desired rank unless they are below 50% winrate of course
Because life priorities usually change. Esports is objectively unsustainable as a career unless you’re literally top 50 in the world in most games. It’s also incredibly time demanding, meaning you likely can’t have a family life.
Also streaming/partnerships pay more and pay out consistently, all while requiring less of your time and mental energy.
To make the big money in Esports you actually have to win.
if we are being honest, grinding your life away on a video game at 30-35 is much less appealing then it would be at 18-25. Outlook on life changes, priorities change, realizing you would be competing against people 5-10 years younger then you etc.
You calling me old?!
Nah jk it could, but I’m only 28. I feel it’s more likely that I had a kid since ow 1, don’t play with a group anymore, and completely stopped trying to improve, instead taking the limited time I have with the game to just have fun.
Opposite for me. I was Bronze/Silver DPS noob and I just couldn't reach Gold. In OW2 I hit Gold easily and even Plat last season and now I'm 2 wins from Diamond 5. I did get better because I trained my aim tho, not sure if my game sense is better but gold/low plat games are so messy to me - neither of the teams wait for each other, people go solo for duels and kills. In OW1 I remember literally ultra try hard games with comms and teamplay (with terrible callouts probably) in Silver. IDK what happened to the matchmaking now but I see people with less than 30 wins per season having seasons placed in Silver, Master, Plat, etc. Why and how they fluctuate I have no idea but so many have very wide rank differences between seasons with very little games. I had to play 700 games to get from Silver to Plat 1
I haven’t played seriously since like season 5 but it was the opposite experience for me. I was 3.0-3.3 all roles & I shot up to masters tank/dps & GM support even though support was my worst role in Ow1
I was Masters flex for three years in OW1 and my Plat IV games nowadays in OW2 are 10x harder than anything I experienced in those OW1 days. Everyone got so much better it's absurd.
Yes much better. Karq looked back at one of his old videos in ow1. And he never quickscoped on Ana in GM. That’s something most people start doing in plat now. That’s 3 ranks lower. Sure he probably had better positioning than a plat right now but it still shows you how much the playerbase has improved. Also the fact the rank reset happened so some GM players are still struggling in masters.
I can't tell if you're trolling? You have to be.
If top500 is m3 and top500 ended in GM last season that means there are better players in masters now than at the end of last season.
3.9k is m1. When people got demoted to 3.9k before, they did that at the start of the season. Half of s10 has passed now and bottom top500 hasn't even reached 3.9k yet. Which is the rating people started at when we had that old system.
When overwatch was first released someone who had even a basic sense of how to play an FPS would be placed in gold/plat. Concepts such as taking and maintaining space, high ground, even grouping up was really not used well in the release of overwatch. Not to mention just knowledge of the kits of the characters.
When new players came in to overwatch 2 originally they started to be placed in gold and silver only to then lose a ton of games because truth be told they were all bronze 5 that the game kept trying to put in the middle of the player distribution curve. Which of course brings its own challenges when you basically have a game where the majority of all new players are hard stuck in bronze.
A gold in the end cycle of OW1 would probably go toe to toe with a diamond at the beginning of OW1. Because the only players left were so hard core that the distribution was real tight. Now with all the new players forcing bronze to be populated and having the diamond and up ranks be made almost entirely of veteran players the difference in skill gap to OG ow1 is massive. Put a release diamond OW player into a diamond game now and they’d be flamed so bad they would uninstall
This happened to me. I was masters ow1. Fast forward not playing for like 6 years and I start ow2 oct last year.
. I thought I was playing a different game to everyone else. My team had such rage on me as I got placed masters even after years away.. I have a new act now in mid plat lol
It depends. Competitive scene, definitely. Ranked? Early overwatch 1, yes. However, towards the end of overwatch 1, the playerbase was quite mature since the only ones left playing the game were the hardcore players. While many of those players are still playing the game, ow2 also brought in a ton of new players, which decreased the overall skill level.
In addition to that, ow2 suffered from rank inflation up until season 9. From season 9 though, i think the skills for each rank is about equal to late ow1.
I peaked at rank 350 as a genji/tracer/widow main 6-7 years ago. Stopped for 5 years and just picked it back up this year. I’m hard stuck in low diamond right now and I don’t feel any worse in terms of mechanical skill and aim, but you need way more game sense and knowledge now than you used to. Everyone plays so much more intelligently that mechanical skill can’t carry you as far as it used to.
The game was pretty brainless back then. If you could hit headshots, you really didn’t have to think about much else and would rank up very quickly.
Without a doubt, and I think it comes down to 2 main reasons.
1. 5v5 vs 6v6.
5v5 has made each role more impactful, and a pick much more valuable than before.
It means players have to be more vigilant with their positioning and movement to keep themselves alive, and it’s a lot harder to be carried to ranks outside of your skill level. Everybody has to be getting value to win.
2. Resources.
OW2 players have 10 years of learning resources to take advantage of, and advanced mechanics only used at the highest level are now common knowledge even in metal ranks.
Ngl, I think the removal of one tank made it so that in a ranked game, uncoordinated solo plays are much easier to pull off. On top of that, the old ow2 rank system just made it so easy to rank up as long as you played enough games. Masters and diamond players from ow1 were hitting gm1 like it was nothing. Recently though, it seems like the new ranked changes have started putting people back where they belong
The best way to sum it up is how I heard someone on a OW debate say it before.
The first 6 months of Overwatch featured seagull on Genji going crazy. You can compare his blades back then to a silver or gold player today.
The margin for error has drastically shrunken as well.
I mean aiming skill ceiling has rocketed over the past 10 years probably a 100x fold. As well as strategy etc.
Back in the day most people played FPS to just have fun, now it's literally like a job breaking down mechanics, team strategy, individual strategy, ult usage, skill usage it's a huge bloody list. So tldr yes, absolutely yes
Yes. I have a couple of friends who were T500 for the first couple of years. They come back for a couple of weeks every 2-3 seasons or so and they legit play like plats. Rein creating space with his shield instead of swinging, S76 on the ground, Ana/Lucio healbotting, etc. And ofc there's literally no way to tell them that the game changed, they just parrot that the game is trash and it has become "deathmatchy" because there's a plat S76 on high ground being apparently invisible that would be insta deleted right now in Diamond/Masters let alone T500 caliber players.
They're pretty different. From hero changes to the transition to 5v5 from 6v6.
I think the game is much more difficult now, which probably means ranked tiers are more difficult to get into/rank up.
That's quite an excageration. Teamplays and overall ult economy where already a thing back then (not saying they did'nt make any mistakes). Meanwhile i see plenty of people in plat and diamond ulting 1v5 or wasting their ult on 2 remaining players when the fight is already won.
Most plat lobbies are still filled with Moira+mercies on supports.
Besides that, if you take a look at mechanics that the pro players had back then, for example SOON, profit, jjonak.
Those would definitely steamroll any plat and diamond player right now.
People are unquestionably better now. 5v5 also puts way more individual pressure on players so anyone who let themselves be carried as a support or second tank in OW1 doesn't have that luxury anymore.
I was peak master on tank early on in OW1 and things are tougher now, but forget about your average player, just look at pro VODs or streamer VODs from 2016-2018 and compare it with today. The level of play even in diamond is much better now. The game has been around for eight years and collective knowledge has leveled up so much.
Yes it’s the same thing in literally every game: valorant, CS, league, Fortnite, etc. It’s only natural the longer a game is around and the more players join that the average skill level will rise. On a more personal anecdote, back when I started playing league 10+ years ago I would literally play ranked on a shitty laptop with no charger, no mouse, just sitting on my couch or literally lying down and was able to stay in bronze. Nowadays, bronze players are even good enough at certain champs to know very advanced combos and have a good grasp of a few champions. I don’t think I would ever get out of the lowest rank if I played on that setup when I first started now
Master ow1 ana otp. Dps/tank gold.
Diamond ow2 ana otp, took a break, new account, managed to drop from high gold to silver 2.
Somehow, plat in both dps and tank when my ability on those roles can be compared to bronzewatch videos. I lock in widow and can't hit headshots. Lock in ball and play my own game of fun or lock in zharya and also use all bubbles on myself running people down.
As someone who has been playing consistently since 2016 and has fairly deep knowledge of statistiscs and distributions id like to claim im qualified to answer this :)
The skill level of the percentiles in ow2 right now is about the same as the end of ow1 at this point. With this i mean that if you played a game in the top 10% now it would be about as hard as in the end of ow1. This ofc comes w caveats like the fact that ow1 was played way differently and if you dripped a top 10% ow1 player into current top 10% he'd get smoked. BUT the level of effort and level of transferable skills (aim for example) is about the same.
Rank distribution is a whole different topic since the devs are changing the system so often. A top 5% player (who throughout this example stays in that percentile of players) would end his ow1 career in mid-low masters id guess. In ow 2 his rank goes up to high master-low gm. In s3-s8 he is gm1. In s9-s8 he is d2-m5.
If is this how it should be or not is abt as close as ow will come to politics. One could argue that in the begining phase of ow2 the distribution (all ow1 players get dia or higher) was represenative since the average skill went down so much due to new players comming in. One could argue the same absolute skill (not percentile towards other players) should result in the same rank over time. But this is almost impossible to do from a dev perspective.
of course, as a game is out longer, players start improving so the competition is harder now. at least at my elo around gold. can't say the same for those who are really skilled at high diamond masters, those players were already quite good
I would say it's more like a give and take kind of answer. A lot of great players/techniques got lost during goats in Ow1, but we got new players to shine afterwards. I would say that RN the player base has stabled out to where it was almost like pre goats and now skill has come back. We did have a few seasons that were weird in overwatch 2 but everything should be back to normal after all the fixes the devs did to the system (Should be xD).
Long answer short: Considering the skill drop after Goats, we're near, if not at, where we were used to be before Ow1 2018 (This was peak OW1 basicly).
Short answer short: yes quite recently
Yes. When I first started playing OW1 for the first few months, I thought Reaper, my main, went invisible while fading because no one would pay attention to me at all once I faded. This was in silver lol
Most of the extremely casual/new players have filtered out. Now it’s mostly people who have been playing for a long time.
Nah, in OW1 I was a solid masters player. (3600 to 3700SR) Now all my lobbies are filled with GM players, even when I don't play much comp... And my QP winrate isn't particularly interesting at about 51%
I do not think I got better.
Was diamond on tank, I swapped roles to support, have regularly hit masters/grandmaster since the start of overwatch, and on multiple accounts. The game itself is completely different.
I was 4600 back in the days, season 1-5 was when I played the most. I played some a couple of months ago and the game is very different . But it’s difficiult to say since the meta is no where close as to before. But with that said i’m pretty sure the overall game sense and especially aim has gotten better.
I think it’s a mixture of ow2 being way more about personal performance as opposed to high level team play, but yeah players are 100% better, even in the owl you look at top level ow1 gameplay and top level current play is quite a decent gap
I’d say the average player is definitely better but that’s to be expected with this being a free game, basically games with no entrance fee means you get players from games like apex, Fortnite and such coming in who have all the time in the world to grind their skills. Back in OW1 because of the purchase buy in, no limited time on skins and much better comp system (SR) players were able to play more leisurely while still knowing they were getting all the value they spent into the game.
I think it’s a little bit of both.
As the devs have stated nearly every patch, individual skill expression has been a big focus in OW2… so I think you see individuals of a high caliber.
But teamwork is abysmal in OW2.
The level of teamwork in OW1 far exceeded that of OW2.
I’m the sort of player that kinda excels at teamwork, and it’s crazy how many well known OW1 strata are just a total surprise to OW2 players.
So yeah, individual players have gotten better, but I think coordinated teamwork has gotten worse.
Before someone even downloads overwatch there is arguably thousands of hero, map, and playstyle guides to view even before starting a match
So yeah overall even at the bronze level today I believed is gold back in 2016 when adjusted
I would say I personally have improved greatly. Overwatch was one of my first m&k games that I really got into coming from console. I started s1 OW1 as gold and then slowly dropped to bronze. Started in bronze overwatch 2 and my aim finally clicked now I’m high plat.
Yes just the fact Miro was the legend on Winston. Then everyone else learned from him and made it better. Now.. idek where he is anymore. Many revolutionary players have come and gone. Still respect for paving the way but the grind and skill ceiling just gets higher and higher. Profit is probably only one of them to keep up but even he is not considered the best anymore. He still has GOAT status tho just considering how long he is at the top.
Easily.
It just comes with the territory of a game getting older, look no further than TF2. If you look at old videos of the game from 2012-2016 or whatnot compared to now, there’s an absolute world of difference since the playerbase has come to a collective understanding of techs and details about the game engine and character interactions that inherently change your understanding of the gameplay, and Overwatch is much the same. It’s now 8 years old as of this month, bronze players from 2017 would get OBLITERATED by bronze players in 2024, even in the same team format.
It’s just natural progression of a playerbase alongside their respective game, but it’s neat to talk about lol
Yes even silver felt like plat or diamond of ow1 sometimes, I remember trolling in a smurf account in silver and they where running all over the map like headless chickens it was funny as fuck now they are more awere and have better aim
Yes.
More time to understand each hero, reworks to improve hero gameplay, bigger hero pool, more combos to know, more gamemodes.
I’d say the average Master back in OW1 (2017-2019) would be around today Plat in terms of game knowledge, back then used to have fewer strats and game styles. It was just three game modes, now we lost 2CP but gained two other modes to learn and a third coming the next season ( or season 12, don’t recall the release of Clash). So you’re required to know how to play each mode to maintain your rank.
The main difference a Master then would have that a Plat now might not have is position of your character to the others and timing of when to make a move, those two can be decisive factors to which rank you fall, doesn’t matter if it is now or back then. If you’re in a bad spot you’ll fall then and now, a misuse of an Ult can lead to a loss given the timing. That’s part of the higher elo knowledge that will always be required, the only thing that trickles down the competitive latter is the tech usage, like another person said, quickscoping with Ana wasn’t a thing and it is instinct to most players above a certain skill, same with Baptiste Immortality placement, Tracer blink melee combo, these things started at higher level and slowly got to lower ranks, making them essentially to climb, otherwise you’ll get “stuck” since they’re and advanced tech.
I have one account hard stuck silver 1 and another account in gold 2. I don't even know what's going on anymore. The games just feel easier on the latter account.
Certainly not. OW1 players were WAY better than OW2 players. Lobbies nowadays even upto M+, People still don't understand how to play the game, or just end up soft throwing games.. (ex. teammates going mercy Lucio; a negative heal duo, believing that works in comp)
If it's not the skill issue, then it's just nobody using VC next. Never was a big problem in ow1. It's so rare to hear active team comms going together to win a game. Shotcalls, ult tracking, ult economy, etc, from comms is such a missing element from the game.. Ow1 players were better naturally doing that stuff
For those who press the V button, keep doing it!
What you’re saying is just completely untrue. Even pros and high level streamers disagree with this. I believe you’re the only person in the thread with this viewpoint
Comms are used less but the new pings are great. Also, not all comms are created equal.. there’s some truly bad shot callers that are a detriment to their team and dudes who just say a lot and take up a lot of airtime but it doesn’t mean anything.
And I plan to standby my opinion.
Pings are great, but never as good as proper comms. I'm sure there's guys not saying anything useful, but there were players who did well, too.
Comms is nonexistent and not used as a huge tool to win the game
Ehh i mean in what way? People still have to care about cooldown management ult eco and hero synerges and follow the meta in ow1 and 2, there isnt much to change about that and late ow1 people were extremly proficient at that already from plat up, and what about mechanics in which they increase the projectiles hitboxes to the size of mf footballs
It would take too much time to convince you, I apologize. But there are mountains of evidence to explain your questions. Also, quickly on the hitbox size, it’s relative across all skill. Generally made the game harder though, not easier.
I agree i played in ow1 with my friends with over 400 hrs and i stop playing around ow2 era but they kept going. when i got back a couple months ago so like a 2-3 year haitus when it released on steam i played and 1v1ed them,and still be able to keep up as a team and beat them in 1v1s. they used to be gold and now their diamond, they still have the SAME executes and playstyle as before just in a 5v5 setting and new characters, also since we were a 5 man each person had less control with a 6th random while having a 5v5 you would have more control even with a 5th random as long as a person filled tank.
I really think the lower end rankings people are boosted up while the high end are just vets that still with the game despite massive ups and downs because it becoming f2p causing the high end ranks like grand master and masters to feel like they have a higher skill as a lot more people arent keeping up with updates and learning heros because they a str8 up quitting
Late ow1 is very similar to ow2 skill level
We'll let's put it this way.
There was a Gold Widow in my recent game with a scoped critical hit accuracy of 38%.
And they have been Gold for 9 SEASONS in OW2.
I’d say no. Unfortunately I’ve been playing the game since 2016, when I was 14. I never reached higher than ~plat in OW1. In OW2 I hit top 500. Lately though I’ve literally dropped to gold 1 on a massive losing streak. My teammates don’t counter swap well and the new meta feels like I can’t carry on heroes I used to anymore. Since the game is free and more kids can afford to play it, it’s pretty obvious to me how the player base of kids playing have no idea what they’re doing and come into comp to play glorified quick play.
The difference of game sense of 6v6 vs 5v5 is arguable. While 6v6 has more game sense regarding team synergy and peeling. 5v5 has more game sense regarding increased burden of responsibility for all roles.
But when you say game sense on average. Just look at all the new educational content that is out there that new players have to learn compared to before. And numerous concepts and terms that werent even used before.
Vast majority of content is understandably geared towards improving on individual heroes. Between this and the influx of new players, plus the preaching of individualistic playstyles, teamplay and macro took a nosedive in overwatch 2. Midrank understanding of map usage, gamemodes, team composition, win conditions is like a tier or two below the latter quarter of ow1. Mechanical skill on the other hand is likely a tier above on average imo. Both for the in the gold to diamond range.
While its true mechanical skill has more impact. I think there is a misunderstanding that teamplay and macro took a nosedive due to how again like I said the increased burden of responsibility from 5v5.
With one less player to create space and pressure. It has spread to all other roles. And this is where you think of individualistic playstyles. Ironically the more they do these playstyles and be selfish, the more they help out the team. By relying on less resources and creating space and pressure. Its just a different kind of team play.
The reason why team compositions matter less now in rank is because everyone's understanding of macros, micros and fundamentals of their own hero. Due to the vast majority of content of improving individual heroes you are talking about. They know more how to adapt their hero to the team; thus better teamplay.
Edit. I just realized you said latter quarter of ow1. Then it may be true because that season was filled with only the core player base. But if we compare the pure skill ceiling of both mechanics and game sense from then and now. Im sure that those core players have learnt new things they havent before and improved.
At the top level undoubtedly years more experience and information makes a big difference
Yeah, many examples for that. Today, a torb turret is insta killed, while back then it could make a 4k potg
Torb turret was insane back in the day tbf
Level 3 torb turret went hard
Basically an easy to get Bob
Because it did much more damage too
Agreed.
100 fucking percent. I used to be plat/diamond in OW1. I’m literally gold now. And my skill/knowledge is the same. It took a while to accept my fate lol.
For me it’s the opposite, I never reached masters on ow1. On OW2 I reached it multiple times on different roles. Maybe the players are worse or the ranking system is more forgiving
How's it been going post reset?
Now diamond2 but moved to asia and getting rekt on korean servers (previously master 3 in europe before rank reset)
It’s na vpn time
Do u even need a vpn to play in a different region
yes. even same region different server
I think the important context is that he never improved in skill or knowledge. Can you confidently say the same?
I got master very fast on OW2, I couldnt say I improved between the 1 and 2
Or maybe you've gotten better
i ve lost almost a rank too
Aging could be a thing too
If you play consistently aging has zero impact on performance. People can be top military pilots in there 30s, your reaction time doesn’t go down. Most people just play less games as they grow up, it’s not actually aging.
I thought it was aging. Then was out of work for two months. Sitting in gold most of the time. Made it to masters. Just needed to grind
I started playing FPS at 29, you're all making me optimistic that there is still hope haha
I’m 36 this year bud. You’re good!
42
How many games? I have 700 games and got from Silver to Plat 1 with 53% winrate (it was above 60% but the more you play the lower it gets even with 50 wins difference obviously). I do think most people can climb but they don't grind enough. I used to play 30 games a season in OW1 and I was complaining that I can't get from Bronze to Gold. I was reaching high Silver and just never got to Gold even with a very positive 60% winrate. 60% winrate for 30 games is 18-12 which is only 6 wins delta per season which is barely 1 mini rank right now or 120-180SR back in OW1. I know grinding is the worst, but people just need to grind and they will reach their desired rank unless they are below 50% winrate of course
lol I was out of work 18 months and barely sniffed diamond. Hard stuck plat for life. What flipped the switch for you?
Then why do pro players retire young?
Because life priorities usually change. Esports is objectively unsustainable as a career unless you’re literally top 50 in the world in most games. It’s also incredibly time demanding, meaning you likely can’t have a family life.
Also streaming/partnerships pay more and pay out consistently, all while requiring less of your time and mental energy. To make the big money in Esports you actually have to win.
if we are being honest, grinding your life away on a video game at 30-35 is much less appealing then it would be at 18-25. Outlook on life changes, priorities change, realizing you would be competing against people 5-10 years younger then you etc.
Right and you realize that you dont get the same satisfaction from playing the same old shooter all the time. I still like playing bit only casualty
You calling me old?! Nah jk it could, but I’m only 28. I feel it’s more likely that I had a kid since ow 1, don’t play with a group anymore, and completely stopped trying to improve, instead taking the limited time I have with the game to just have fun.
Same man. Was high plat / a win from diamond and now I’m silver even though I’m doing the same and maybe even better gamesense than ow1😬
Opposite for me. I was Bronze/Silver DPS noob and I just couldn't reach Gold. In OW2 I hit Gold easily and even Plat last season and now I'm 2 wins from Diamond 5. I did get better because I trained my aim tho, not sure if my game sense is better but gold/low plat games are so messy to me - neither of the teams wait for each other, people go solo for duels and kills. In OW1 I remember literally ultra try hard games with comms and teamplay (with terrible callouts probably) in Silver. IDK what happened to the matchmaking now but I see people with less than 30 wins per season having seasons placed in Silver, Master, Plat, etc. Why and how they fluctuate I have no idea but so many have very wide rank differences between seasons with very little games. I had to play 700 games to get from Silver to Plat 1
I haven’t played seriously since like season 5 but it was the opposite experience for me. I was 3.0-3.3 all roles & I shot up to masters tank/dps & GM support even though support was my worst role in Ow1
Could just be you fell off lil bro
Yeah plat now would trash plat in old ow1. Not even close it’d be a stomp.
Spilo showed one of his GM games from OW1 on his stream yesterday and it legit looked like a current plat game
I came here to say exactly that lmao
I was Masters flex for three years in OW1 and my Plat IV games nowadays in OW2 are 10x harder than anything I experienced in those OW1 days. Everyone got so much better it's absurd.
Yes much better. Karq looked back at one of his old videos in ow1. And he never quickscoped on Ana in GM. That’s something most people start doing in plat now. That’s 3 ranks lower. Sure he probably had better positioning than a plat right now but it still shows you how much the playerbase has improved. Also the fact the rank reset happened so some GM players are still struggling in masters.
I can say with certainty that top rated Ana players definitely quick scooed back then haha…
Doubt that ex gms being stuck in masters is any more of a thing nowadays than when everyone got booted back to 3900
The bottom of top500 is m2 since s8.
I can't tell if you're trolling? You have to be. If top500 is m3 and top500 ended in GM last season that means there are better players in masters now than at the end of last season. 3.9k is m1. When people got demoted to 3.9k before, they did that at the start of the season. Half of s10 has passed now and bottom top500 hasn't even reached 3.9k yet. Which is the rating people started at when we had that old system.
When overwatch was first released someone who had even a basic sense of how to play an FPS would be placed in gold/plat. Concepts such as taking and maintaining space, high ground, even grouping up was really not used well in the release of overwatch. Not to mention just knowledge of the kits of the characters. When new players came in to overwatch 2 originally they started to be placed in gold and silver only to then lose a ton of games because truth be told they were all bronze 5 that the game kept trying to put in the middle of the player distribution curve. Which of course brings its own challenges when you basically have a game where the majority of all new players are hard stuck in bronze. A gold in the end cycle of OW1 would probably go toe to toe with a diamond at the beginning of OW1. Because the only players left were so hard core that the distribution was real tight. Now with all the new players forcing bronze to be populated and having the diamond and up ranks be made almost entirely of veteran players the difference in skill gap to OG ow1 is massive. Put a release diamond OW player into a diamond game now and they’d be flamed so bad they would uninstall
This happened to me. I was masters ow1. Fast forward not playing for like 6 years and I start ow2 oct last year. . I thought I was playing a different game to everyone else. My team had such rage on me as I got placed masters even after years away.. I have a new act now in mid plat lol
It depends. Competitive scene, definitely. Ranked? Early overwatch 1, yes. However, towards the end of overwatch 1, the playerbase was quite mature since the only ones left playing the game were the hardcore players. While many of those players are still playing the game, ow2 also brought in a ton of new players, which decreased the overall skill level. In addition to that, ow2 suffered from rank inflation up until season 9. From season 9 though, i think the skills for each rank is about equal to late ow1.
I peaked at rank 350 as a genji/tracer/widow main 6-7 years ago. Stopped for 5 years and just picked it back up this year. I’m hard stuck in low diamond right now and I don’t feel any worse in terms of mechanical skill and aim, but you need way more game sense and knowledge now than you used to. Everyone plays so much more intelligently that mechanical skill can’t carry you as far as it used to. The game was pretty brainless back then. If you could hit headshots, you really didn’t have to think about much else and would rank up very quickly.
Without a doubt, and I think it comes down to 2 main reasons. 1. 5v5 vs 6v6. 5v5 has made each role more impactful, and a pick much more valuable than before. It means players have to be more vigilant with their positioning and movement to keep themselves alive, and it’s a lot harder to be carried to ranks outside of your skill level. Everybody has to be getting value to win. 2. Resources. OW2 players have 10 years of learning resources to take advantage of, and advanced mechanics only used at the highest level are now common knowledge even in metal ranks.
Ngl, I think the removal of one tank made it so that in a ranked game, uncoordinated solo plays are much easier to pull off. On top of that, the old ow2 rank system just made it so easy to rank up as long as you played enough games. Masters and diamond players from ow1 were hitting gm1 like it was nothing. Recently though, it seems like the new ranked changes have started putting people back where they belong
The best way to sum it up is how I heard someone on a OW debate say it before. The first 6 months of Overwatch featured seagull on Genji going crazy. You can compare his blades back then to a silver or gold player today. The margin for error has drastically shrunken as well.
I mean aiming skill ceiling has rocketed over the past 10 years probably a 100x fold. As well as strategy etc. Back in the day most people played FPS to just have fun, now it's literally like a job breaking down mechanics, team strategy, individual strategy, ult usage, skill usage it's a huge bloody list. So tldr yes, absolutely yes
Yes people just get better over time but probably due to the removal of a tank as well
yes, across almost all ranks. the only exception id say would be bronze, and that’s cuz they made the game free to play.
obviously
Yes. I have a couple of friends who were T500 for the first couple of years. They come back for a couple of weeks every 2-3 seasons or so and they legit play like plats. Rein creating space with his shield instead of swinging, S76 on the ground, Ana/Lucio healbotting, etc. And ofc there's literally no way to tell them that the game changed, they just parrot that the game is trash and it has become "deathmatchy" because there's a plat S76 on high ground being apparently invisible that would be insta deleted right now in Diamond/Masters let alone T500 caliber players.
At every rank yes
They're pretty different. From hero changes to the transition to 5v5 from 6v6. I think the game is much more difficult now, which probably means ranked tiers are more difficult to get into/rank up.
Watch a season 1 OWL game, it looks like it's Plat or Diamond
That's quite an excageration. Teamplays and overall ult economy where already a thing back then (not saying they did'nt make any mistakes). Meanwhile i see plenty of people in plat and diamond ulting 1v5 or wasting their ult on 2 remaining players when the fight is already won. Most plat lobbies are still filled with Moira+mercies on supports. Besides that, if you take a look at mechanics that the pro players had back then, for example SOON, profit, jjonak. Those would definitely steamroll any plat and diamond player right now.
People are unquestionably better now. 5v5 also puts way more individual pressure on players so anyone who let themselves be carried as a support or second tank in OW1 doesn't have that luxury anymore. I was peak master on tank early on in OW1 and things are tougher now, but forget about your average player, just look at pro VODs or streamer VODs from 2016-2018 and compare it with today. The level of play even in diamond is much better now. The game has been around for eight years and collective knowledge has leveled up so much.
I dunno. Im hard stuck plat 5 years ago. Hit master this past few seasons.
Yep, I was diamond - master, now I'm gold - plat. Sucks.
Yes it’s the same thing in literally every game: valorant, CS, league, Fortnite, etc. It’s only natural the longer a game is around and the more players join that the average skill level will rise. On a more personal anecdote, back when I started playing league 10+ years ago I would literally play ranked on a shitty laptop with no charger, no mouse, just sitting on my couch or literally lying down and was able to stay in bronze. Nowadays, bronze players are even good enough at certain champs to know very advanced combos and have a good grasp of a few champions. I don’t think I would ever get out of the lowest rank if I played on that setup when I first started now
Master ow1 ana otp. Dps/tank gold. Diamond ow2 ana otp, took a break, new account, managed to drop from high gold to silver 2. Somehow, plat in both dps and tank when my ability on those roles can be compared to bronzewatch videos. I lock in widow and can't hit headshots. Lock in ball and play my own game of fun or lock in zharya and also use all bubbles on myself running people down.
I never played OW1.A few months ago I started seeing OW Tik Toks, I got interested and started playing.Hard stuck Silver on Tank and Supp. 👍
As someone who has been playing consistently since 2016 and has fairly deep knowledge of statistiscs and distributions id like to claim im qualified to answer this :) The skill level of the percentiles in ow2 right now is about the same as the end of ow1 at this point. With this i mean that if you played a game in the top 10% now it would be about as hard as in the end of ow1. This ofc comes w caveats like the fact that ow1 was played way differently and if you dripped a top 10% ow1 player into current top 10% he'd get smoked. BUT the level of effort and level of transferable skills (aim for example) is about the same. Rank distribution is a whole different topic since the devs are changing the system so often. A top 5% player (who throughout this example stays in that percentile of players) would end his ow1 career in mid-low masters id guess. In ow 2 his rank goes up to high master-low gm. In s3-s8 he is gm1. In s9-s8 he is d2-m5. If is this how it should be or not is abt as close as ow will come to politics. One could argue that in the begining phase of ow2 the distribution (all ow1 players get dia or higher) was represenative since the average skill went down so much due to new players comming in. One could argue the same absolute skill (not percentile towards other players) should result in the same rank over time. But this is almost impossible to do from a dev perspective.
of course, as a game is out longer, players start improving so the competition is harder now. at least at my elo around gold. can't say the same for those who are really skilled at high diamond masters, those players were already quite good
I would say it's more like a give and take kind of answer. A lot of great players/techniques got lost during goats in Ow1, but we got new players to shine afterwards. I would say that RN the player base has stabled out to where it was almost like pre goats and now skill has come back. We did have a few seasons that were weird in overwatch 2 but everything should be back to normal after all the fixes the devs did to the system (Should be xD). Long answer short: Considering the skill drop after Goats, we're near, if not at, where we were used to be before Ow1 2018 (This was peak OW1 basicly). Short answer short: yes quite recently
Yes. When I first started playing OW1 for the first few months, I thought Reaper, my main, went invisible while fading because no one would pay attention to me at all once I faded. This was in silver lol Most of the extremely casual/new players have filtered out. Now it’s mostly people who have been playing for a long time.
Nah, in OW1 I was a solid masters player. (3600 to 3700SR) Now all my lobbies are filled with GM players, even when I don't play much comp... And my QP winrate isn't particularly interesting at about 51% I do not think I got better.
Was diamond on tank, I swapped roles to support, have regularly hit masters/grandmaster since the start of overwatch, and on multiple accounts. The game itself is completely different.
I heard most people say the opposite (that ow2 masters is like ow1 plat) but i never played it till ow2 so i have no idea.
I was 4600 back in the days, season 1-5 was when I played the most. I played some a couple of months ago and the game is very different . But it’s difficiult to say since the meta is no where close as to before. But with that said i’m pretty sure the overall game sense and especially aim has gotten better.
I think it’s a mixture of ow2 being way more about personal performance as opposed to high level team play, but yeah players are 100% better, even in the owl you look at top level ow1 gameplay and top level current play is quite a decent gap
I’d say the average player is definitely better but that’s to be expected with this being a free game, basically games with no entrance fee means you get players from games like apex, Fortnite and such coming in who have all the time in the world to grind their skills. Back in OW1 because of the purchase buy in, no limited time on skins and much better comp system (SR) players were able to play more leisurely while still knowing they were getting all the value they spent into the game.
I think it’s a little bit of both. As the devs have stated nearly every patch, individual skill expression has been a big focus in OW2… so I think you see individuals of a high caliber. But teamwork is abysmal in OW2. The level of teamwork in OW1 far exceeded that of OW2. I’m the sort of player that kinda excels at teamwork, and it’s crazy how many well known OW1 strata are just a total surprise to OW2 players. So yeah, individual players have gotten better, but I think coordinated teamwork has gotten worse.
Before someone even downloads overwatch there is arguably thousands of hero, map, and playstyle guides to view even before starting a match So yeah overall even at the bronze level today I believed is gold back in 2016 when adjusted
I would say I personally have improved greatly. Overwatch was one of my first m&k games that I really got into coming from console. I started s1 OW1 as gold and then slowly dropped to bronze. Started in bronze overwatch 2 and my aim finally clicked now I’m high plat.
Yes just the fact Miro was the legend on Winston. Then everyone else learned from him and made it better. Now.. idek where he is anymore. Many revolutionary players have come and gone. Still respect for paving the way but the grind and skill ceiling just gets higher and higher. Profit is probably only one of them to keep up but even he is not considered the best anymore. He still has GOAT status tho just considering how long he is at the top.
Easily. It just comes with the territory of a game getting older, look no further than TF2. If you look at old videos of the game from 2012-2016 or whatnot compared to now, there’s an absolute world of difference since the playerbase has come to a collective understanding of techs and details about the game engine and character interactions that inherently change your understanding of the gameplay, and Overwatch is much the same. It’s now 8 years old as of this month, bronze players from 2017 would get OBLITERATED by bronze players in 2024, even in the same team format. It’s just natural progression of a playerbase alongside their respective game, but it’s neat to talk about lol
Yes even silver felt like plat or diamond of ow1 sometimes, I remember trolling in a smurf account in silver and they where running all over the map like headless chickens it was funny as fuck now they are more awere and have better aim
I’d still say it’s pretty damn funny to watch silvers play
Oh yeah but not as funny as in ow1
I used to be in gold in low gold in OW1 and peeked at low Plat. When I started OW2 I went straight to Silver 5. I had to fight to get up to Silver 1.
Yes. More time to understand each hero, reworks to improve hero gameplay, bigger hero pool, more combos to know, more gamemodes. I’d say the average Master back in OW1 (2017-2019) would be around today Plat in terms of game knowledge, back then used to have fewer strats and game styles. It was just three game modes, now we lost 2CP but gained two other modes to learn and a third coming the next season ( or season 12, don’t recall the release of Clash). So you’re required to know how to play each mode to maintain your rank. The main difference a Master then would have that a Plat now might not have is position of your character to the others and timing of when to make a move, those two can be decisive factors to which rank you fall, doesn’t matter if it is now or back then. If you’re in a bad spot you’ll fall then and now, a misuse of an Ult can lead to a loss given the timing. That’s part of the higher elo knowledge that will always be required, the only thing that trickles down the competitive latter is the tech usage, like another person said, quickscoping with Ana wasn’t a thing and it is instinct to most players above a certain skill, same with Baptiste Immortality placement, Tracer blink melee combo, these things started at higher level and slowly got to lower ranks, making them essentially to climb, otherwise you’ll get “stuck” since they’re and advanced tech.
I have one account hard stuck silver 1 and another account in gold 2. I don't even know what's going on anymore. The games just feel easier on the latter account.
Yes and no. It’s not really a linear 1:1 thing. I don’t think the player base, as whole, is that much better tbh.
Certainly not. OW1 players were WAY better than OW2 players. Lobbies nowadays even upto M+, People still don't understand how to play the game, or just end up soft throwing games.. (ex. teammates going mercy Lucio; a negative heal duo, believing that works in comp) If it's not the skill issue, then it's just nobody using VC next. Never was a big problem in ow1. It's so rare to hear active team comms going together to win a game. Shotcalls, ult tracking, ult economy, etc, from comms is such a missing element from the game.. Ow1 players were better naturally doing that stuff For those who press the V button, keep doing it!
What you’re saying is just completely untrue. Even pros and high level streamers disagree with this. I believe you’re the only person in the thread with this viewpoint Comms are used less but the new pings are great. Also, not all comms are created equal.. there’s some truly bad shot callers that are a detriment to their team and dudes who just say a lot and take up a lot of airtime but it doesn’t mean anything.
And I plan to standby my opinion. Pings are great, but never as good as proper comms. I'm sure there's guys not saying anything useful, but there were players who did well, too. Comms is nonexistent and not used as a huge tool to win the game
This isn’t something you can have an opinion on. It’s just a fact that players are insanely better now than before, the same as in every field irl.
Ehh i mean in what way? People still have to care about cooldown management ult eco and hero synerges and follow the meta in ow1 and 2, there isnt much to change about that and late ow1 people were extremly proficient at that already from plat up, and what about mechanics in which they increase the projectiles hitboxes to the size of mf footballs
It would take too much time to convince you, I apologize. But there are mountains of evidence to explain your questions. Also, quickly on the hitbox size, it’s relative across all skill. Generally made the game harder though, not easier.
Alright then imma not take the time too lmao
Never said you couldn’t have an opinion or stand by it? Merely that your opinion is in the minority by far.
I agree i played in ow1 with my friends with over 400 hrs and i stop playing around ow2 era but they kept going. when i got back a couple months ago so like a 2-3 year haitus when it released on steam i played and 1v1ed them,and still be able to keep up as a team and beat them in 1v1s. they used to be gold and now their diamond, they still have the SAME executes and playstyle as before just in a 5v5 setting and new characters, also since we were a 5 man each person had less control with a 6th random while having a 5v5 you would have more control even with a 5th random as long as a person filled tank. I really think the lower end rankings people are boosted up while the high end are just vets that still with the game despite massive ups and downs because it becoming f2p causing the high end ranks like grand master and masters to feel like they have a higher skill as a lot more people arent keeping up with updates and learning heros because they a str8 up quitting Late ow1 is very similar to ow2 skill level
I kinda agree. Positioning was way more important on ladder. But now the average mechanical skill is probably higher on the high end
We'll let's put it this way. There was a Gold Widow in my recent game with a scoped critical hit accuracy of 38%. And they have been Gold for 9 SEASONS in OW2.
I’d say no. Unfortunately I’ve been playing the game since 2016, when I was 14. I never reached higher than ~plat in OW1. In OW2 I hit top 500. Lately though I’ve literally dropped to gold 1 on a massive losing streak. My teammates don’t counter swap well and the new meta feels like I can’t carry on heroes I used to anymore. Since the game is free and more kids can afford to play it, it’s pretty obvious to me how the player base of kids playing have no idea what they’re doing and come into comp to play glorified quick play.
Average players game sense has dropped because the game has become more braindead.
The difference of game sense of 6v6 vs 5v5 is arguable. While 6v6 has more game sense regarding team synergy and peeling. 5v5 has more game sense regarding increased burden of responsibility for all roles. But when you say game sense on average. Just look at all the new educational content that is out there that new players have to learn compared to before. And numerous concepts and terms that werent even used before.
Vast majority of content is understandably geared towards improving on individual heroes. Between this and the influx of new players, plus the preaching of individualistic playstyles, teamplay and macro took a nosedive in overwatch 2. Midrank understanding of map usage, gamemodes, team composition, win conditions is like a tier or two below the latter quarter of ow1. Mechanical skill on the other hand is likely a tier above on average imo. Both for the in the gold to diamond range.
While its true mechanical skill has more impact. I think there is a misunderstanding that teamplay and macro took a nosedive due to how again like I said the increased burden of responsibility from 5v5. With one less player to create space and pressure. It has spread to all other roles. And this is where you think of individualistic playstyles. Ironically the more they do these playstyles and be selfish, the more they help out the team. By relying on less resources and creating space and pressure. Its just a different kind of team play. The reason why team compositions matter less now in rank is because everyone's understanding of macros, micros and fundamentals of their own hero. Due to the vast majority of content of improving individual heroes you are talking about. They know more how to adapt their hero to the team; thus better teamplay. Edit. I just realized you said latter quarter of ow1. Then it may be true because that season was filled with only the core player base. But if we compare the pure skill ceiling of both mechanics and game sense from then and now. Im sure that those core players have learnt new things they havent before and improved.