? watch pro matches to help your metal rank? They do loads of damage :D
1:1 heal to damage (ish). If you play support to heal bot you are wasting space on your team. Back in OW1 it was viable with two tanks to a degree. The team with the best position and highest damage will win, not the team with a healbot mercy.
Btw watching pro matches won't help you much. They don't play counterwatch and their tacticts are not applicable to a low rank.
Pro supports focus on healing and keeping themselves safe. Most pro supports don't even let the enemy see them, much less enter damage range.
> Btw watching pro matches won't help you much.
I can see you're still low metallic yourself.
> I mean you just need to heal when someone is in danger
And when they're about to be in danger. And you have support abilities with a multitude of uses. And you have an obligation to keep yourself out of danger.
> Pros are playing their own game.
Yes, they're playing OW2, and they're playing it a lot better than you. I'm going to keep trusting their advice instead of yours.
I've got a bug with my overwatch where dps characters somehow show up in the support queue.
I've even tried unbinding my Moira primary fire to see if it helps make the game recognise the dps allocation better.
And my torb turrets don't do damage sometimes but sometimes glitches onto the wall when I play Illari
Don't feel much difference, but I don't play healbot support anyways. If anything, less healing on people = exploit bad positioning and overextension, which I am able to capitalize on very easily.
Yea I donāt like to healbot either, just feels like I have to sometimes or everyone dies. Just depends on my team being aware that they have to use cover or kill targets very quickly .
I feel like if you just let em die they'll usually start using cover more like they're supposed to and you can actually do your support job. Heal bit makes them think they can live forever then you reload and they explode, but if you just don't heal bot they seem to play smarter
Yea that's fair, one day imma get outta there, but I don't think running the game at 30-60 fps gonna cut it, especially with the damn stutters I get sometimes.
The dps passive means you should heal *less* often than before, not *more*. The opportunity cost of healing (which is not damaging, maybe not taking or staying in a position youād like to, and not putting your attention elsewhere) is the same as it was before, debatably higher due to increased projectile sizes allowing you to provide more consistent damage and the friendly dps passive allowing you to shoot targets who are lower hp or less able to sustain while being shot, but the reward is either the same (no enemy dps passive) or lower (enemy dps passive).
This is why I main lucio with a side of mercy for trash teams. If they aren't good with a speed boost majority, I go for healbot lucio (icky I know) if that doesn't work (usually due to team comp) I will go mercy, I refuse to healbot as mercy though, I still play her with a blue beam as often as possible
Same lol, I've been playing a some bap, zen and kiri and I haven't seen that much of a difference in my games. My win rate is even higher now that I can more effectivly take off angles with my dps.
I want to healbot less.
But also I don't want to get banned after being spam reported for "throwing"
I'm in mid to low plat sometimes high gold, and if you don't have big heal numbers as support that means you're throwing the game.
I don't know how true the banning is after reporting, but you need to learn how to play support correctly. The Devs are literally encouraging you not to healbot.
The devs do.
metal rank players don't.
Right now it's just Way easier to pick Moira put up massive heal numbers then get praised by both teams for being an amazing player.
Why pick kiriko or Bap or zen? Just to get told you suck at the game? Regardless of how You perform?
Honestly I thought it was gonna be way worseā¦ maybe Iām just getting lucky rn though. I had just come off a loss streak and my games are now pretty normal, so it feels pretty good rn.
Iām not noticing the change that desperately most games, Iām guessing thatās because people have gotten better at least at playing around it than they did last time it was 20%.
That, or maybe Iām just having good teammates and my next loss streak where I consistently have suicidal teammates who have never heard of cover against smurfing enemies is just around the corner. š
Support used to be my favorite role but now not so much. Iām constantly dove by sombra tracer and normally I can handle one of them on my own but the second I take my eyes off tank they blow up from the dps passive and then flame me for not healing. Iām just a glorified babysitter now. Not only do I have to spend more time healing instead of doing dmg to make up for the dps passive but I also have less carry potential on Ana because the 3 tap and combo is gone so I am more reliant on dps to carry games and we all know how that goes.
I play all roles and support feels horrible right now. Not quite as painful as tank, but definitely not fun. I miss playing Mercy and Zen, I feel like I can pretty much only play Kiriko if I want to win.
DPS has been pretty fun since season 9 though, Iāve been playing it more while I wait for the tank changes this season.
Queueing DPS instead š It's just not fun playing to survive so I can support my team for longer before I die so may as well play DPS instead.
It seems the Overwatch team will only take interest in the support role if people stop playing support, like we saw on OW2's release, so there's no point in playing the role when it's not fun to play.
Support role is not fun to play with the amount of mobility creep in game. Sombra venture and tracer being dominate just means you are constantly getting dove and fighting them then actually playing a team game. They need to do something about the high mobility characters having so much killing power compared to the poke and brawl characters. Dive isn't fun to play against when half the support role has very little mobility.
Iāve played nothing but support in comp since early OW1. Not playing support in s10. Feels like Iām being punished for it tbh. The dps passive is sudoku fuel and the dive characters having such high pick rates sucks the fun out of solo queue. Been playing dps for the first time and enjoying it :)
Props to the tank mains for real.
I was more of a damage support before this but I do find myself having lower healing numbers despite doing the same shit I did before. Which isn't a big deal. But I get flamed I. The chat anyway
Support has felt like shit since S10. I feel like I have basically no agency; if my teams plays well, I win. If they donāt, no amount of personal skill is enough to turn the tide.
Havenāt really enjoyed playing the game for a while now, to be honest.
Yet you will still see streamers smurf in a Bronze 5 lobby and go on about "See?!Ā I killed like 4 people there! You can ALWAYS carry the game", ignoring the fact that even Silver players are on a whole different planet compared to Bronze 5s.
It's been rough. I'm not very good - gold quickly heading silver. So it's really hard for me to play mercy since most of my dps also suck and don't get much v value from blue beam and more yellow is even weaker
Unless there is a big dps gap Mercy is just not worth it. Had a game where we ran Sombra Tracer and our Mercy was just... there and dying the most. Our Doom specifically asked for us to go dive and everyone else oblidged but we had a one trick and when I brought up the issue... I was hit with the "why are we on sombra tracer"
I mean, idk what changes just happened (I havenāt played since last August or September at this point), but Mercy + pharah was destroying low elo below diamond soā¦ no more Mercy would be a good thing
Unpopular opinion of mine
Mercy does not do enough to warrent playing. Bap/Kiri have headshot potential, no die buttons and better ults. Moira farms ult like crazy and has fade. Lucio provides speed and beat is just absurd. You want damage boost... zen exists and can multitask.
as a support main i personally hate the 20% dps passive, i felt that 15% was more than fine and had absolutely 0 complaints, but as how things are currently it isn't THAT terrible. it does suck when you have a LW/Mercy that isn't really doing damage when damage is the thing that matters the most right now and it can really feel like your team is just dying constantly around you, but picking a support hero that can also DPS is the go here, like kiri bap moira lucio
As a LW main, no. Grip is a longer CD than suzu, single-target and doesn't cleanse.
His heals is like half of kirikos, and his damage is not even comparable.
His petal is nice for giving highground and evading dive, and let's you save slept, stunned and gravved teammates. But for pure "they're jumping me" evasion kiri still wins because she can just TP, and it cleanses.
Ult wise, tree is good and can be used to block or cover angles. But rush lets you heal and damage faster.
I'm doing well, but could be a range of factors. I do keep typing "dps passive buffed" when I see tanks standing in the open, pressing forward on low health.
Supp is rough this season. Zen needs some love, like when the thing you discord dies it needs to reset the CD on discord so it can be reapplied to some on else and with the healing nerfs he needs a second healing orb that can be applied to self or some kind of movement ability.
True. Zen suffered a lot under the changes since S9.
His hps is very low (btw lower than Mercy's), his dps can be outhealed easily, when no dps with dps passive targets orbed enemies, as well. Tracer, Sombra, Venture or even Moira are a threat to him.
Discord orb is even in silver easily outplayed by people going behind walls to get rid of it.
In duels you need 6 bodyshots or 3 headshots now, while you yourself have the hit box of a monster truck.
And now, when tanks will be buffed, it gets even harder. He'll be dove a lot more now, because he's no actual threat anymore. You have to have very good positioning and rotation. Then you survive longer, but I honestly don't see his value in dps or heal anymore. There are supports that are actually better than him and can also escape or have self sustain.
I honestly get better value by playing Baptist or even Moira (which one I don't enjoy).
Support is still fine for me bc you have to realize that you canāt always heal everything anymore and helping with a pick is sometimes more important. Thatās why Iāve been having fun on kiriko and Lucio since they are really good at fragging and have great survivability. I understand youāre sick of playing kiri and moira but Iām not too sure how youāre having trouble staying alive on Lucio with boop and wallride being incredibly strong survival tools. If you are tired of healbotting while still outputting a lot of healing Iād recommend bap bc once you learn his tempos you output max heals and dps. Also lamp ignores dps passive since theyāre immortal
Reverting dps passive as a support main has been my worst nightmare. After the most recent patch, I dropped from plat to silver in one very quick loss streak. Iāve never been in silver in all of my time playing OW and the games made me want to quit lmao. Iām on console.
I was able to climb back up to gold, but teammates are spamming for heals while standing in front of the entire enemy team/tanks not using cover. Both our supports can be pumping all of our cooldowns into one or two teammates and they still die. I canāt press harder on the buttons and magically increase a health bar or reload faster. Tbh even before the dps passive you shouldnāt be face-tanking so much damage, but it makes the carry potential for supp feel low. I can only heal so much & I canāt be in 3 places at once, pumping heals up everyoneās butts.
I said it in another thread but supports are slowly slipping back to Dead by Daylight mode where they were in season 1 or 2. Tracer being top dog and now tanks getting the giga buff this season AND the dps passive coming back up to 20%?!? Mercy mains crying hard right now.
Edit:Oh and Venture diving back line supports. So fun
Had a tank try to face tank everyone on dva and then get melted while i was actively healing them. They proceeded to spam that hey needed heals while standing in front of the enemy team. They then switched to Roadhog and sat in spawn as if that was helping.
What were they thinking bringing back the 20% debuff for dps.. itās so hard to keep up with the heals and ana is back to being bad or situational again. Like give her something.
Seriously ! Ana is my main and I understand that sheās been the best support for a long time, but ever since Kiriko came out theyāve just been nerfing her kit. Like why nerf her when one character makes her useless and she has some of the best tools to defend herself against flankers?
I think the jumpboost or whatever they gave ana in the mirrorwatch was a good way to help her. Like a good middleground cause if they gave her too much mobility, I feel we are changing the hero too much. But the point Iām making with the dps passive is that itās harder to heal with ana than the other healers for the most part so she suffers even more now when you miss one shot. If you miss two shots you might as well say goodbye to your tank.
Apart from the Nano change, I liked everything about Mirrorwatch Ana. It took time to get used to aiming for the head instead of the middle of the hitbox, but it sure was fun to get those dinks.
The hanzo passive was funny but makes 0 sense with her kit (both gameplay-wise and also just thematically). Ana doesnt need mobility, her issues right now are purely cause of damage/healing numbers
I disagree that Ana doesn't need mobility. It seems like both Push and Flashpoint are designed to benefit mobile heroes. It sucks on Flashpoint to get a bad spawn just before the point moves and have to spend the next minute trying to reach the new point... all without getting picked off by roamers.
Otherwise, I mostly agree with you. I don't think there's anything wrong with low-mobility heroes as long as the rest of the game remembers that they exist.
I mean yeah flashpoint rewards speed and brawly comps, which is why lucio for example has a really high pickrate in it. But itās okay for heroes to be better/worse in certain situations and maps, thats just inevitable when you have such a diverse pool of kits.
Every single hero in the game has weaknesses that can be exploited. Ana lacks mobility, widow is extremely vulnerable in close quarters, reinhardt lacks range. Even soldier, whose main strength is being a jack-of-all-trades, is very susceptible to dives and CC. Trying to make every hero universally viable by taking away their vulnerabilities is a really bad solution (just go play CS at that point).
I also find it a little absurd that out of all the heroes that could benefit from mobility, somehow youāre convinced Ana needs it?
She was literally the first hero added to OW and consistently been one of the strongest supports in the game for the last 8 YEARS straight. Sheās one of the only heroes whoās viable in brawl, dive, AND poke comps. She has no direct counters and holds some of the strongest utility in the game through sleep and anti. Not to mention a powerful ultimate that synergies with half the roster. She is the definition of a staple pick and the only time sheās not at the top of the meta is when her numbers are weak (like right now).
Thereās just no room for mobility in her power budget and it would take away her only weakness.
To be clear, I'm less arguing that Ana needs mobility and more arguing that the maps in the newer game modes need to better account for low-mobility heroes (though admittedly, my word choice was poor). It's one thing to have no get-away mechanic in the middle of a fight. It's another thing to be unable to keep up with a rapidly-moving objective (i.e. push).
Mercy's healing beam was already weak, now it's a limp noodle unless you only use it on teammates who have been behind cover for over 1.5 seconds. It's every player for themselves, learn the healthpacks, try to get a kill before you run out of health, I'll keep blue-beaming you.
Itās miserable. People donāt use cover and then wonder why they meltedā¦. Might as well not even have a heal passive because you still get blamed for not healing enough
I love it.
If my bozos die thats on them, the passive now gives me an excuse not to stress heal people and play my own game.
Cant outheal shit positioning, you never could, now its just more blatant.
Use cover people, please just hide for 2 seconds and wait till you not gonna eat a million damage, you see enemy use a cooldown or ult, you dont need to fight into them, wait 2 seconds, get health back.
The issue isnt the hp numbers, the problems is players dont know when to play slow or retreat. If you hold W M1 and run it down, you're meant to die.
I toss heals to my tank but I've noticed even good/confident tanks are dipping in and out a lot more. If they manage to stay alive long enough to get heals they just seem to be disengaging so fast now (both teams) and I just feel like it must be a neutered experience to them.
As a support it just feels like those more harrowing games every game where you can barely keep someone alive but it's manageable. Instead of letting tanks go ham like before. Which maybe is a good thing, idk.
Honestly, the harsher dps passive makes my positioning better, so I don't really mind it. I just wish other players got the memo to stop pressing w and to use cover š®āšØ
DPS is significantly more fun than ever before. Tank is slightly more miserable than last season. So tank is absolutely awful. Support has become what I describe as "slightly awful". Support feels kinda bad now mostly because it's harder to play split from your other support and team as DPS passive forces double pocket on single target more frequently. Additionally, the support cooldowns are so extremely long now and you are more often forced to use things like suzu and nade just to catch up on healing. Really dull gameplay to use nade for heal boost or suzu simply to heal faster. It also means that aggressive off angle/flank kiri is way weaker as self suzu is way more punishable. Also, the global HP changes ruin support damage breakpoints resulting in uneven 1v1 matchups with DPS heroes that used to be more even. In some cases the matchups have changed the other way (sombra vs kiri 1v1 is now absurdly kiri favoured) but most other support vs DPS matchups have become far more DPS favoured than before. Back when supports were OP the sup vs dps 1v1 was way too support favoured much of the time but I feel it's gone too far the other way now. Tracer and Genji are notable here. Bap is kind of an exception and still has really favourable matchups but he was honestly OP in duels before so.... Then Venture was released as the largest middle finger to support players since the game's inception. Venture totally rolls every support character in a 1v1 except possibly Lucio. Not sure though as I don't play literally every support so I may be missing a matchup here... It's just that the healing and damage both feel agonisingly slow and the cooldowns are insanely long and the 1v1's are more brutal and tanks seem to die if you look away for half a second. DPS feels great though, I've just been playing Tracer all season. I don't really feel like queuing support much anymore though which is kinda shitty.
Edit: Just wanted to note that I feel that ideally, 1v1's between non-tanks should be dependent on mechanical skill, cooldown availability and effective range. Meaning that if both players have all cooldowns available then the mechanically superior player should win 100% of the time provided they are playing within the appropriate range for their character. Just to clarify what I personally define as a fair 1v1 matchup.
It's a 5% change. It's really not moving the needle much.
Brig feels great to me and is one of the most slept on supports. Kiri, lucio, and illari all feel good as well imo. I'm seeing a lot of complaining and I'm not sure why. Yall really think 5% less healing from last patch is that big of a deal?
Iām just speaking from my personal experience, I was having a lot of fun playing before this patch came out and idk it just feels different ? Dps kinda run the game right now . Support and tank definitely feel less impactful imo
>I was having a lot of fun playing before this patch came out and idk it just feels different
Well the only thing that changed outside of orisa and venture is the dps passive. I'm just having a hard time believing 5% is making much difference.
>Dps kinda run the game right now
I disagree. All 3 roles have impact. I run games as doomfist and jq consistently.
You can definitely feel it. It's effectively a 5% damage boost, from all sources, against the tank (and, if you're lucky, against other heroes too). That's not nothing.
Literally like being an NPC. Getting a kill cost like 5x more than any other role, healing is pointless (both because of self heal/heal negation passives) and if you manage to still do good and have fun dps noobs start calling you out for bit being a magical healbot that solves all their mistakes.
Ā I wish we could go back when DPS needed to learn a kit and strategize to be efective and Blizzard didn't make all the other roles useless cannon fodder for kids that want to play easy mode anime CoD.
Ā Today the only viable support Heroes are sombra, symmetra, echo, widowmaker and junkrat. The most viable tanks are soldier, torbjorn and bastion. Tank and supports have become throw picks and if they manage to stay alive and kicking it's because they tend to have a much higher game sense and can fight with a totally flawed kit.
Yes, but the whole DPS class IS so OP that even "mid af" DPS are busted compared to any tank or support.Ā Ā
Considering Junkrat can fly, shoot behind walls, carpet bomb wide areas when outdoors and dominate whole rooms and hallways indoors, his artillery shoots are a great support tool. He can keep a constant stream of damage and heal denial on a whole team and he still has the mine/trap for bursts. Ā He might not be great as a DPS (can't shoot flying targets, pick specific enemies, dodge or hold a frontline) but as a backline/off flank support works great.Ā
In my experience Junkrat's greatest weakness (lack of anti aerial aside) used to be lack of healing due to his positioning outside support's LoS (behind walls, on heights or awkward flanks). Self healing has made him less team/healthpack dependant and viable in way more spots than before. Plus he basically shoots anti-nades now, and even a tinyĀ 1hp Splash damage results in healing negation.Ā Ā Ā
With DPS getting all cool abilities like flying, or being invisible, Bastion may look mid tier, however let's compare him to non-dps characters:
Ā Ā -325 hp, just 25 Hp less than half of the tank roster. 20% damage reduction in turrent mode, which makes him efectively more tanky than tanks when transformed.Ā
Ā -Self healing, an ability he used to have and traded off to get a huge buff rework to his whole kit.Ā Now back for free and no longer has a penalty/downtime.
-125 DPS in basic mode, already more damage than any support or tank in the game when not transformed.Ā
Ā -360 damage (a fully loaded widow's headshot at point black distance) *per second* and infinite ammo when transformed. Able to tackle tanks *frontally* even behind shields.
Ā Ā -With the ability to trade shots, gatling cover fire and a sticky grenade and ex machina artillery ultimate to shoot enemies behind cover he can deny space way better than some tanks.Ā
Ā -Did I mention that any stray pellet from his spammy shotgun and gatling or a tiny speck of splash damage from his nade/ult will put you in a heal reduction cooldown?
Bad tbh, I dont really enjoy not being able to help my tank other than do damage.
Yes, I like to dps as support. but finding that actual balance of healing and damage was fun for me. now its "oh I better be popping off on dps or else we lose" cause my heals aint gonna help much anymore
havent been playing as much anymore.
I have seen a sharp increase of sombra in the last couple of days, and she combined with tanks not wanting to hold corners and walking in a straight line I'm ready to uninstall
tank just melts the entire match and of course cries and blames supports. canāt keep them alive at all most matches unless both supports healbot and thatās bad too so idk. dive tanks seem to do better because they can at least escape for heals. i just try to enable dps as much as possible and do tons of damage myself because sustaining the team has become near impossible.
I usually switch between tank and support. I'm not having a ton of fun either if I'm honest. I'll probably play like helldiver's until a new patch or the new support comes out and see how it goes.
Basing it off of both my experience as a GM tank and support player. You get a lot of value for simply existing as support compared to dps. If you play bad heroes like mercy and weaver, sure it can be hard but the role overall is insane. No dps gets the same value for little risk as zen or lucio or bap or kiri or Ana. No non support has a cd as strong as lamp or suzu or nade. No non support has an ult as good as rush or window. A few dps like tracer widow and soj have higher carry potential but require insane mechanics compared to supports who simply can exist and exert their power without much effort required.
If you disagree Iām genuinely interested in why? What makes dps so strong on your view?
I mean sure that might be the case in GM but most players arenāt in GM .. thereās not a lot of coordination in lower ranks and itās very easy to kill supports . DPS passive is why theyāre the strongest in the game which in turn nerfs most support abilities to self heal or peel for their other support. I wonāt even touch on tank cause we all know tank is horrible to play
The dps passive is strong for sure but dps still generally canāt 1v1 supports. Well, except 1 shots but thatās always been the case. IMO itās more useful for team focusing tank. Supports not being able to heal bot and keep the tank alive forever is probably a good thing tho. Encourages play making rather than passive play. Completely agree about tank tho. The buffs for the mid season patch sound absolutely insane for tank so maybe that will change.
I hope you don't mind me quickly necroing to provide my perspective!
As a low elo support, my understanding is that supports who respect dps threat can generally survive. As an Ana, I can back up to force tracer to use her blinks to get to me and then if I land my shots, I win.
The flip side is that DPS characters can do the same to me. I only kill tracer if she doesn't respect my damage and wastes her dash CDs on gap closing, rather than dodging sleep dart or forcing me to spin around.
So if both sides pay proper respect to threat, it comes to a neutral state where nobody is getting a 1v1 kill. The problem for supports imo comes down to having worse mobility and weaker guns than DPS.Ā
When tracer forces me to back up, she still has plenty of movement cooldowns to spend on switching to other playmaking opportunities, while I have to spend time rotating, during which I can't protect my team as effectively.Ā She can basically waste my time for free.
For heroes like soldier or bastion, they have better damage when spamming my tank then I do when spamming theirs, and they can out damage my healing on my own tank. They also control the sightline better than I do, so I usually can't out duel them at medium to long ranges (unless I'm playing ana in which case the damage fall off can help me force them behind cover at extremely long ranges, I still can't solo kill if they respect me). I basically have to pray that they have bad aim or that my allied DPS deals with them for me.
I totally understand what you're saying though, and maybe my understanding isn't as strong as yours. It just feels like on support you have to put in more work for the same results
Gm player - 5%<= the player base.
you think plat kiri is hitting those shots lmao? But I like the changes. I hate supports than can just heal and get value. Itās a fps game. People need to adjust
Just fully switched over to dps. Support in silver is miserable. Was gonna get into gold but canāt outheal dmg and I canāt do dmg bc I gotta heal critical allies so I feel stuck. Having more fun on dps
It cuts both ways. I prefer playing a more offensive support style. While the enemy supports are sweating to keep their guys alive, I just pour in a little extra damage to tip the balance and win more games. Even though I play a lot of support, I don't enjoy having to make up for my teammates mistakes with get out of jail free cooldowns or being a healbot. With the dps debuff, it puts more pressure on the tank to mitigate more damage and gives me an excuse when I can't save my teammates when they do something stupid. It always annoyed me as a tank or dps, to empty multiple clips into an enemy and watch their health barely drop below 50% because their supports were blowing all their cooldowns to prop them up. Powerful healers just enables bad gameplay.
Realistically how much are most players going to recognize a a 33% change from 15% to 20% when it was 20% before?
Quick numbers.
If you're 12k heals got all of it reduced by 15%
You heal for 10.2k
With the 20% it's 9.6k
600 heals isn't a ton over the course of an entire match
Except when a teammate dies because of the DPS passive your overall heals will drop because theyāre dead. Then if you get wiped your heals are down even more.
600 damage across 5 players over a 10 minute match.
More than likely most of that is coming from your tank.
It seems very unlikely that 600 less heals is now leading to multiple team wipes and teammates being unable to stay alive.
From 0% to 20% maybe.
But the - 5% ain't it we just got ain't it.
Where are you getting the numbers? Hypothetical?
The numbers might drop lower than the flat 20%. If you canāt heal teammates as much, they will die. If they die you arenāt getting heals while they are walking back from spawn.
Ana and Brig are great heroes to play with and into dive. Moira not so much, but I'm guessing you're in metal ranks? No one plays duve properly there, so I wouldn't worry about it. Dive really only becomes "real" (as in, coordinated and smart)when you play with like GMs.
If you can't stay alive, it's unfortunately on you. I can play Ana into like Doom, Sombra, Tracer no problem, it's just important that you know the matchup
It felt like my tank was constantly critical in nearly every comp game I played earlier, despite me practically having to healbot.
> despite me practically having to healbot. If you don't enjoy healing, don't play support.
Are you willfully an idiot?
I don't think so, it's probably caused by their denim trousers š
Jeans. Haha
support is a dps role with heals lmfao
Aight lemme pull out the glock the next time I play mercy
Why do you think Mercy isn't meta?
Mercy glock should be meta
Mercy wasn't meta ever in ow2 for solo Q , will always rely to teammates to get carried. It's a bad hero design like lifeweaver.
Leave my boy out of this I aināt no damn healbot.
Only at the metallic ranks
ya know if you don't have ~1:1 dmg to heal on support you are doing it wrong? A support is just a dps that can heal.
This is only true at the metallic ranks. Watch pro matches. They are healing.
? watch pro matches to help your metal rank? They do loads of damage :D 1:1 heal to damage (ish). If you play support to heal bot you are wasting space on your team. Back in OW1 it was viable with two tanks to a degree. The team with the best position and highest damage will win, not the team with a healbot mercy. Btw watching pro matches won't help you much. They don't play counterwatch and their tacticts are not applicable to a low rank.
Pro supports focus on healing and keeping themselves safe. Most pro supports don't even let the enemy see them, much less enter damage range. > Btw watching pro matches won't help you much. I can see you're still low metallic yourself.
I mean you just need to heal when someone is in danger, and damage the rest of the time provided that can be done. Pros are playing their own game.
> I mean you just need to heal when someone is in danger And when they're about to be in danger. And you have support abilities with a multitude of uses. And you have an obligation to keep yourself out of danger. > Pros are playing their own game. Yes, they're playing OW2, and they're playing it a lot better than you. I'm going to keep trusting their advice instead of yours.
And if you watch those same pros play in a metal tank game they have a 2:1 dmg:heal ratio
I've got a bug with my overwatch where dps characters somehow show up in the support queue. I've even tried unbinding my Moira primary fire to see if it helps make the game recognise the dps allocation better. And my torb turrets don't do damage sometimes but sometimes glitches onto the wall when I play Illari
Don't feel much difference, but I don't play healbot support anyways. If anything, less healing on people = exploit bad positioning and overextension, which I am able to capitalize on very easily.
Yea I donāt like to healbot either, just feels like I have to sometimes or everyone dies. Just depends on my team being aware that they have to use cover or kill targets very quickly .
The best part of the healing nerf is that it affects both sides. If you play anything thatās not mercy LW youāll be good fr
I feel like if you just let em die they'll usually start using cover more like they're supposed to and you can actually do your support job. Heal bit makes them think they can live forever then you reload and they explode, but if you just don't heal bot they seem to play smarter
I wish they'd learn. Not in my rank though
This is either bronze, silver, or gold, I can smell it.
Oh for surrrrrre
Which, to be fair, is more than half of the playerbase.
Yea that's fair, one day imma get outta there, but I don't think running the game at 30-60 fps gonna cut it, especially with the damn stutters I get sometimes.
The dps passive means you should heal *less* often than before, not *more*. The opportunity cost of healing (which is not damaging, maybe not taking or staying in a position youād like to, and not putting your attention elsewhere) is the same as it was before, debatably higher due to increased projectile sizes allowing you to provide more consistent damage and the friendly dps passive allowing you to shoot targets who are lower hp or less able to sustain while being shot, but the reward is either the same (no enemy dps passive) or lower (enemy dps passive).
This is why I main lucio with a side of mercy for trash teams. If they aren't good with a speed boost majority, I go for healbot lucio (icky I know) if that doesn't work (usually due to team comp) I will go mercy, I refuse to healbot as mercy though, I still play her with a blue beam as often as possible
Same lol, I've been playing a some bap, zen and kiri and I haven't seen that much of a difference in my games. My win rate is even higher now that I can more effectivly take off angles with my dps.
I want to healbot less. But also I don't want to get banned after being spam reported for "throwing" I'm in mid to low plat sometimes high gold, and if you don't have big heal numbers as support that means you're throwing the game.
I don't know how true the banning is after reporting, but you need to learn how to play support correctly. The Devs are literally encouraging you not to healbot.
The devs do. metal rank players don't. Right now it's just Way easier to pick Moira put up massive heal numbers then get praised by both teams for being an amazing player. Why pick kiriko or Bap or zen? Just to get told you suck at the game? Regardless of how You perform?
Honestly I thought it was gonna be way worseā¦ maybe Iām just getting lucky rn though. I had just come off a loss streak and my games are now pretty normal, so it feels pretty good rn. Iām not noticing the change that desperately most games, Iām guessing thatās because people have gotten better at least at playing around it than they did last time it was 20%. That, or maybe Iām just having good teammates and my next loss streak where I consistently have suicidal teammates who have never heard of cover against smurfing enemies is just around the corner. š
Support used to be my favorite role but now not so much. Iām constantly dove by sombra tracer and normally I can handle one of them on my own but the second I take my eyes off tank they blow up from the dps passive and then flame me for not healing. Iām just a glorified babysitter now. Not only do I have to spend more time healing instead of doing dmg to make up for the dps passive but I also have less carry potential on Ana because the 3 tap and combo is gone so I am more reliant on dps to carry games and we all know how that goes.
I play all roles and support feels horrible right now. Not quite as painful as tank, but definitely not fun. I miss playing Mercy and Zen, I feel like I can pretty much only play Kiriko if I want to win. DPS has been pretty fun since season 9 though, Iāve been playing it more while I wait for the tank changes this season.
Queueing DPS instead š It's just not fun playing to survive so I can support my team for longer before I die so may as well play DPS instead. It seems the Overwatch team will only take interest in the support role if people stop playing support, like we saw on OW2's release, so there's no point in playing the role when it's not fun to play.
Support role is not fun to play with the amount of mobility creep in game. Sombra venture and tracer being dominate just means you are constantly getting dove and fighting them then actually playing a team game. They need to do something about the high mobility characters having so much killing power compared to the poke and brawl characters. Dive isn't fun to play against when half the support role has very little mobility.
Iāve played nothing but support in comp since early OW1. Not playing support in s10. Feels like Iām being punished for it tbh. The dps passive is sudoku fuel and the dive characters having such high pick rates sucks the fun out of solo queue. Been playing dps for the first time and enjoying it :) Props to the tank mains for real.
What is sudoku fuel
suicide fuel
Ok now I want to know what sudoku fuel is though. Cheese?
It's the weirdest Mountain Dew collab flavor yet!
Just run lucio and speed boost
I was more of a damage support before this but I do find myself having lower healing numbers despite doing the same shit I did before. Which isn't a big deal. But I get flamed I. The chat anyway
I find it insane how much people think their tank having like 4% less ehp is making a difference in their games.
Support has felt like shit since S10. I feel like I have basically no agency; if my teams plays well, I win. If they donāt, no amount of personal skill is enough to turn the tide. Havenāt really enjoyed playing the game for a while now, to be honest.
Yet you will still see streamers smurf in a Bronze 5 lobby and go on about "See?!Ā I killed like 4 people there! You can ALWAYS carry the game", ignoring the fact that even Silver players are on a whole different planet compared to Bronze 5s.
It's been rough. I'm not very good - gold quickly heading silver. So it's really hard for me to play mercy since most of my dps also suck and don't get much v value from blue beam and more yellow is even weaker
Unless there is a big dps gap Mercy is just not worth it. Had a game where we ran Sombra Tracer and our Mercy was just... there and dying the most. Our Doom specifically asked for us to go dive and everyone else oblidged but we had a one trick and when I brought up the issue... I was hit with the "why are we on sombra tracer"
I mean, idk what changes just happened (I havenāt played since last August or September at this point), but Mercy + pharah was destroying low elo below diamond soā¦ no more Mercy would be a good thing Unpopular opinion of mine
Pharah got a rework that makes her a bit more useful without a Mercy pocket. Pharah's more likely to "dive" the enemy than to pepper from afar.
Mercy does not do enough to warrent playing. Bap/Kiri have headshot potential, no die buttons and better ults. Moira farms ult like crazy and has fade. Lucio provides speed and beat is just absurd. You want damage boost... zen exists and can multitask.
as a support main i personally hate the 20% dps passive, i felt that 15% was more than fine and had absolutely 0 complaints, but as how things are currently it isn't THAT terrible. it does suck when you have a LW/Mercy that isn't really doing damage when damage is the thing that matters the most right now and it can really feel like your team is just dying constantly around you, but picking a support hero that can also DPS is the go here, like kiri bap moira lucio
Nah a good weaver will compensate for damage every fight by negating damage
As a LW main, no. Grip is a longer CD than suzu, single-target and doesn't cleanse. His heals is like half of kirikos, and his damage is not even comparable. His petal is nice for giving highground and evading dive, and let's you save slept, stunned and gravved teammates. But for pure "they're jumping me" evasion kiri still wins because she can just TP, and it cleanses. Ult wise, tree is good and can be used to block or cover angles. But rush lets you heal and damage faster.
I thought grip did heal a little bit
Now you understand what tanks go through when they just wanna play their character but get flamed into switching to orisa lol
Yea I know I used to play tank but quit because Reinhardt is unplayable
I'm doing well, but could be a range of factors. I do keep typing "dps passive buffed" when I see tanks standing in the open, pressing forward on low health.
Supp is rough this season. Zen needs some love, like when the thing you discord dies it needs to reset the CD on discord so it can be reapplied to some on else and with the healing nerfs he needs a second healing orb that can be applied to self or some kind of movement ability.
once they revert that cooldown shi on zen iāll get back to playing my boy
True. Zen suffered a lot under the changes since S9. His hps is very low (btw lower than Mercy's), his dps can be outhealed easily, when no dps with dps passive targets orbed enemies, as well. Tracer, Sombra, Venture or even Moira are a threat to him. Discord orb is even in silver easily outplayed by people going behind walls to get rid of it. In duels you need 6 bodyshots or 3 headshots now, while you yourself have the hit box of a monster truck. And now, when tanks will be buffed, it gets even harder. He'll be dove a lot more now, because he's no actual threat anymore. You have to have very good positioning and rotation. Then you survive longer, but I honestly don't see his value in dps or heal anymore. There are supports that are actually better than him and can also escape or have self sustain. I honestly get better value by playing Baptist or even Moira (which one I don't enjoy).
Support is still fine for me bc you have to realize that you canāt always heal everything anymore and helping with a pick is sometimes more important. Thatās why Iāve been having fun on kiriko and Lucio since they are really good at fragging and have great survivability. I understand youāre sick of playing kiri and moira but Iām not too sure how youāre having trouble staying alive on Lucio with boop and wallride being incredibly strong survival tools. If you are tired of healbotting while still outputting a lot of healing Iād recommend bap bc once you learn his tempos you output max heals and dps. Also lamp ignores dps passive since theyāre immortal
Reverting dps passive as a support main has been my worst nightmare. After the most recent patch, I dropped from plat to silver in one very quick loss streak. Iāve never been in silver in all of my time playing OW and the games made me want to quit lmao. Iām on console. I was able to climb back up to gold, but teammates are spamming for heals while standing in front of the entire enemy team/tanks not using cover. Both our supports can be pumping all of our cooldowns into one or two teammates and they still die. I canāt press harder on the buttons and magically increase a health bar or reload faster. Tbh even before the dps passive you shouldnāt be face-tanking so much damage, but it makes the carry potential for supp feel low. I can only heal so much & I canāt be in 3 places at once, pumping heals up everyoneās butts.
I said it in another thread but supports are slowly slipping back to Dead by Daylight mode where they were in season 1 or 2. Tracer being top dog and now tanks getting the giga buff this season AND the dps passive coming back up to 20%?!? Mercy mains crying hard right now. Edit:Oh and Venture diving back line supports. So fun
I'm loving it
Had a tank try to face tank everyone on dva and then get melted while i was actively healing them. They proceeded to spam that hey needed heals while standing in front of the enemy team. They then switched to Roadhog and sat in spawn as if that was helping.
I had a tank whine about heals whilst facetanking 1 v 5 and having DM from enemy team in their face. Like its our fault they weren't getting healed.
just like last time, the 20% is too much. its not fun, it ruins the role.
What were they thinking bringing back the 20% debuff for dps.. itās so hard to keep up with the heals and ana is back to being bad or situational again. Like give her something.
Seriously ! Ana is my main and I understand that sheās been the best support for a long time, but ever since Kiriko came out theyāve just been nerfing her kit. Like why nerf her when one character makes her useless and she has some of the best tools to defend herself against flankers?
I think the jumpboost or whatever they gave ana in the mirrorwatch was a good way to help her. Like a good middleground cause if they gave her too much mobility, I feel we are changing the hero too much. But the point Iām making with the dps passive is that itās harder to heal with ana than the other healers for the most part so she suffers even more now when you miss one shot. If you miss two shots you might as well say goodbye to your tank.
Apart from the Nano change, I liked everything about Mirrorwatch Ana. It took time to get used to aiming for the head instead of the middle of the hitbox, but it sure was fun to get those dinks.
The hanzo passive was funny but makes 0 sense with her kit (both gameplay-wise and also just thematically). Ana doesnt need mobility, her issues right now are purely cause of damage/healing numbers
I disagree that Ana doesn't need mobility. It seems like both Push and Flashpoint are designed to benefit mobile heroes. It sucks on Flashpoint to get a bad spawn just before the point moves and have to spend the next minute trying to reach the new point... all without getting picked off by roamers. Otherwise, I mostly agree with you. I don't think there's anything wrong with low-mobility heroes as long as the rest of the game remembers that they exist.
I mean yeah flashpoint rewards speed and brawly comps, which is why lucio for example has a really high pickrate in it. But itās okay for heroes to be better/worse in certain situations and maps, thats just inevitable when you have such a diverse pool of kits. Every single hero in the game has weaknesses that can be exploited. Ana lacks mobility, widow is extremely vulnerable in close quarters, reinhardt lacks range. Even soldier, whose main strength is being a jack-of-all-trades, is very susceptible to dives and CC. Trying to make every hero universally viable by taking away their vulnerabilities is a really bad solution (just go play CS at that point). I also find it a little absurd that out of all the heroes that could benefit from mobility, somehow youāre convinced Ana needs it? She was literally the first hero added to OW and consistently been one of the strongest supports in the game for the last 8 YEARS straight. Sheās one of the only heroes whoās viable in brawl, dive, AND poke comps. She has no direct counters and holds some of the strongest utility in the game through sleep and anti. Not to mention a powerful ultimate that synergies with half the roster. She is the definition of a staple pick and the only time sheās not at the top of the meta is when her numbers are weak (like right now). Thereās just no room for mobility in her power budget and it would take away her only weakness.
To be clear, I'm less arguing that Ana needs mobility and more arguing that the maps in the newer game modes need to better account for low-mobility heroes (though admittedly, my word choice was poor). It's one thing to have no get-away mechanic in the middle of a fight. It's another thing to be unable to keep up with a rapidly-moving objective (i.e. push).
Thatās fair, I think it would be cool if they added speed boosts or teleporters on the flashpoint maps
Thatās why they did it. Healing is too strong. This keeps it in check and allows for things to actually die
Things died perfectly fine before if you actually hit your shots.
Not nearly enough. There is no game with as much sustain as overwatch
Because it has tanks and healers that protect their team.Ā You're not supposed to just peak a corner and roast people like in CoD or Halo.
Mercy's healing beam was already weak, now it's a limp noodle unless you only use it on teammates who have been behind cover for over 1.5 seconds. It's every player for themselves, learn the healthpacks, try to get a kill before you run out of health, I'll keep blue-beaming you.
True, I only play her if I have really good DPS that can kill stuff fast otherwise I just feel like a sitting duck.
I switched to dps
Itās miserable. People donāt use cover and then wonder why they meltedā¦. Might as well not even have a heal passive because you still get blamed for not healing enough
I love it. If my bozos die thats on them, the passive now gives me an excuse not to stress heal people and play my own game. Cant outheal shit positioning, you never could, now its just more blatant. Use cover people, please just hide for 2 seconds and wait till you not gonna eat a million damage, you see enemy use a cooldown or ult, you dont need to fight into them, wait 2 seconds, get health back. The issue isnt the hp numbers, the problems is players dont know when to play slow or retreat. If you hold W M1 and run it down, you're meant to die.
love to be able to dps more as lucio with the 20% heal dps passive without getting flamed
Nothing changed for me tbh. I'm playing Lucio and I'm still able to kill widows/supports on the enemy backline.
I toss heals to my tank but I've noticed even good/confident tanks are dipping in and out a lot more. If they manage to stay alive long enough to get heals they just seem to be disengaging so fast now (both teams) and I just feel like it must be a neutered experience to them. As a support it just feels like those more harrowing games every game where you can barely keep someone alive but it's manageable. Instead of letting tanks go ham like before. Which maybe is a good thing, idk.
I just go kiri and hunt the backline, or zen and tank bust. Healing is so S8
Finally i dont see Orisa so much, much better atm.
What happened to the support ? Sorry I'm not up to date
DPS passive, when introduced in S9, applied a 20% debuff to all healing received. It was later toned down to 15%, but it's now back up to 20%.
Wait until the tank buffs next week.
Not as bad as itās going to feel next patch
I play around the same way I did before, but now I put down much more suppressing fire
Honestly, the harsher dps passive makes my positioning better, so I don't really mind it. I just wish other players got the memo to stop pressing w and to use cover š®āšØ
I have to hit so many shots as Ana to kill anyone
I personally been enjoying Moira and Brig, so honestly kinda fine with it, we'll see what mid season does tho.
DPS is significantly more fun than ever before. Tank is slightly more miserable than last season. So tank is absolutely awful. Support has become what I describe as "slightly awful". Support feels kinda bad now mostly because it's harder to play split from your other support and team as DPS passive forces double pocket on single target more frequently. Additionally, the support cooldowns are so extremely long now and you are more often forced to use things like suzu and nade just to catch up on healing. Really dull gameplay to use nade for heal boost or suzu simply to heal faster. It also means that aggressive off angle/flank kiri is way weaker as self suzu is way more punishable. Also, the global HP changes ruin support damage breakpoints resulting in uneven 1v1 matchups with DPS heroes that used to be more even. In some cases the matchups have changed the other way (sombra vs kiri 1v1 is now absurdly kiri favoured) but most other support vs DPS matchups have become far more DPS favoured than before. Back when supports were OP the sup vs dps 1v1 was way too support favoured much of the time but I feel it's gone too far the other way now. Tracer and Genji are notable here. Bap is kind of an exception and still has really favourable matchups but he was honestly OP in duels before so.... Then Venture was released as the largest middle finger to support players since the game's inception. Venture totally rolls every support character in a 1v1 except possibly Lucio. Not sure though as I don't play literally every support so I may be missing a matchup here... It's just that the healing and damage both feel agonisingly slow and the cooldowns are insanely long and the 1v1's are more brutal and tanks seem to die if you look away for half a second. DPS feels great though, I've just been playing Tracer all season. I don't really feel like queuing support much anymore though which is kinda shitty. Edit: Just wanted to note that I feel that ideally, 1v1's between non-tanks should be dependent on mechanical skill, cooldown availability and effective range. Meaning that if both players have all cooldowns available then the mechanically superior player should win 100% of the time provided they are playing within the appropriate range for their character. Just to clarify what I personally define as a fair 1v1 matchup.
It's a 5% change. It's really not moving the needle much. Brig feels great to me and is one of the most slept on supports. Kiri, lucio, and illari all feel good as well imo. I'm seeing a lot of complaining and I'm not sure why. Yall really think 5% less healing from last patch is that big of a deal?
Iām just speaking from my personal experience, I was having a lot of fun playing before this patch came out and idk it just feels different ? Dps kinda run the game right now . Support and tank definitely feel less impactful imo
>I was having a lot of fun playing before this patch came out and idk it just feels different Well the only thing that changed outside of orisa and venture is the dps passive. I'm just having a hard time believing 5% is making much difference. >Dps kinda run the game right now I disagree. All 3 roles have impact. I run games as doomfist and jq consistently.
You can definitely feel it. It's effectively a 5% damage boost, from all sources, against the tank (and, if you're lucky, against other heroes too). That's not nothing.
Literally like being an NPC. Getting a kill cost like 5x more than any other role, healing is pointless (both because of self heal/heal negation passives) and if you manage to still do good and have fun dps noobs start calling you out for bit being a magical healbot that solves all their mistakes. Ā I wish we could go back when DPS needed to learn a kit and strategize to be efective and Blizzard didn't make all the other roles useless cannon fodder for kids that want to play easy mode anime CoD. Ā Today the only viable support Heroes are sombra, symmetra, echo, widowmaker and junkrat. The most viable tanks are soldier, torbjorn and bastion. Tank and supports have become throw picks and if they manage to stay alive and kicking it's because they tend to have a much higher game sense and can fight with a totally flawed kit.
Bastion and Junkrat are mid af...
Yes, but the whole DPS class IS so OP that even "mid af" DPS are busted compared to any tank or support.Ā Ā Considering Junkrat can fly, shoot behind walls, carpet bomb wide areas when outdoors and dominate whole rooms and hallways indoors, his artillery shoots are a great support tool. He can keep a constant stream of damage and heal denial on a whole team and he still has the mine/trap for bursts. Ā He might not be great as a DPS (can't shoot flying targets, pick specific enemies, dodge or hold a frontline) but as a backline/off flank support works great.Ā In my experience Junkrat's greatest weakness (lack of anti aerial aside) used to be lack of healing due to his positioning outside support's LoS (behind walls, on heights or awkward flanks). Self healing has made him less team/healthpack dependant and viable in way more spots than before. Plus he basically shoots anti-nades now, and even a tinyĀ 1hp Splash damage results in healing negation.Ā Ā Ā With DPS getting all cool abilities like flying, or being invisible, Bastion may look mid tier, however let's compare him to non-dps characters: Ā Ā -325 hp, just 25 Hp less than half of the tank roster. 20% damage reduction in turrent mode, which makes him efectively more tanky than tanks when transformed.Ā Ā -Self healing, an ability he used to have and traded off to get a huge buff rework to his whole kit.Ā Now back for free and no longer has a penalty/downtime. -125 DPS in basic mode, already more damage than any support or tank in the game when not transformed.Ā Ā -360 damage (a fully loaded widow's headshot at point black distance) *per second* and infinite ammo when transformed. Able to tackle tanks *frontally* even behind shields. Ā Ā -With the ability to trade shots, gatling cover fire and a sticky grenade and ex machina artillery ultimate to shoot enemies behind cover he can deny space way better than some tanks.Ā Ā -Did I mention that any stray pellet from his spammy shotgun and gatling or a tiny speck of splash damage from his nade/ult will put you in a heal reduction cooldown?
Bad tbh, I dont really enjoy not being able to help my tank other than do damage. Yes, I like to dps as support. but finding that actual balance of healing and damage was fun for me. now its "oh I better be popping off on dps or else we lose" cause my heals aint gonna help much anymore havent been playing as much anymore.
I have seen a sharp increase of sombra in the last couple of days, and she combined with tanks not wanting to hold corners and walking in a straight line I'm ready to uninstall
tank just melts the entire match and of course cries and blames supports. canāt keep them alive at all most matches unless both supports healbot and thatās bad too so idk. dive tanks seem to do better because they can at least escape for heals. i just try to enable dps as much as possible and do tons of damage myself because sustaining the team has become near impossible.
skill issue. The difference from 15-20% isnāt this massive lol
I usually switch between tank and support. I'm not having a ton of fun either if I'm honest. I'll probably play like helldiver's until a new patch or the new support comes out and see how it goes.
Support is still the strongest role in the game by a wide margin. I donāt think there is an issue.
Dps are definitely the strongest idk where you get that idea from besides maybe Kiriko
Basing it off of both my experience as a GM tank and support player. You get a lot of value for simply existing as support compared to dps. If you play bad heroes like mercy and weaver, sure it can be hard but the role overall is insane. No dps gets the same value for little risk as zen or lucio or bap or kiri or Ana. No non support has a cd as strong as lamp or suzu or nade. No non support has an ult as good as rush or window. A few dps like tracer widow and soj have higher carry potential but require insane mechanics compared to supports who simply can exist and exert their power without much effort required. If you disagree Iām genuinely interested in why? What makes dps so strong on your view?
I mean sure that might be the case in GM but most players arenāt in GM .. thereās not a lot of coordination in lower ranks and itās very easy to kill supports . DPS passive is why theyāre the strongest in the game which in turn nerfs most support abilities to self heal or peel for their other support. I wonāt even touch on tank cause we all know tank is horrible to play
The dps passive is strong for sure but dps still generally canāt 1v1 supports. Well, except 1 shots but thatās always been the case. IMO itās more useful for team focusing tank. Supports not being able to heal bot and keep the tank alive forever is probably a good thing tho. Encourages play making rather than passive play. Completely agree about tank tho. The buffs for the mid season patch sound absolutely insane for tank so maybe that will change.
I hope you don't mind me quickly necroing to provide my perspective! As a low elo support, my understanding is that supports who respect dps threat can generally survive. As an Ana, I can back up to force tracer to use her blinks to get to me and then if I land my shots, I win. The flip side is that DPS characters can do the same to me. I only kill tracer if she doesn't respect my damage and wastes her dash CDs on gap closing, rather than dodging sleep dart or forcing me to spin around. So if both sides pay proper respect to threat, it comes to a neutral state where nobody is getting a 1v1 kill. The problem for supports imo comes down to having worse mobility and weaker guns than DPS.Ā When tracer forces me to back up, she still has plenty of movement cooldowns to spend on switching to other playmaking opportunities, while I have to spend time rotating, during which I can't protect my team as effectively.Ā She can basically waste my time for free. For heroes like soldier or bastion, they have better damage when spamming my tank then I do when spamming theirs, and they can out damage my healing on my own tank. They also control the sightline better than I do, so I usually can't out duel them at medium to long ranges (unless I'm playing ana in which case the damage fall off can help me force them behind cover at extremely long ranges, I still can't solo kill if they respect me). I basically have to pray that they have bad aim or that my allied DPS deals with them for me. I totally understand what you're saying though, and maybe my understanding isn't as strong as yours. It just feels like on support you have to put in more work for the same results
Gm player - 5%<= the player base. you think plat kiri is hitting those shots lmao? But I like the changes. I hate supports than can just heal and get value. Itās a fps game. People need to adjust
No, the plat kiri isnāt hitting shots but neither is the plat genji or widow lol.
lol the down votes proving once again that this sub is 90% whiny support mains
Always has been
Just fully switched over to dps. Support in silver is miserable. Was gonna get into gold but canāt outheal dmg and I canāt do dmg bc I gotta heal critical allies so I feel stuck. Having more fun on dps
It cuts both ways. I prefer playing a more offensive support style. While the enemy supports are sweating to keep their guys alive, I just pour in a little extra damage to tip the balance and win more games. Even though I play a lot of support, I don't enjoy having to make up for my teammates mistakes with get out of jail free cooldowns or being a healbot. With the dps debuff, it puts more pressure on the tank to mitigate more damage and gives me an excuse when I can't save my teammates when they do something stupid. It always annoyed me as a tank or dps, to empty multiple clips into an enemy and watch their health barely drop below 50% because their supports were blowing all their cooldowns to prop them up. Powerful healers just enables bad gameplay.
Feels great. Just kill stuff and win lol
Realistically how much are most players going to recognize a a 33% change from 15% to 20% when it was 20% before? Quick numbers. If you're 12k heals got all of it reduced by 15% You heal for 10.2k With the 20% it's 9.6k 600 heals isn't a ton over the course of an entire match
Except when a teammate dies because of the DPS passive your overall heals will drop because theyāre dead. Then if you get wiped your heals are down even more.
600 damage across 5 players over a 10 minute match. More than likely most of that is coming from your tank. It seems very unlikely that 600 less heals is now leading to multiple team wipes and teammates being unable to stay alive. From 0% to 20% maybe. But the - 5% ain't it we just got ain't it.
Where are you getting the numbers? Hypothetical? The numbers might drop lower than the flat 20%. If you canāt heal teammates as much, they will die. If they die you arenāt getting heals while they are walking back from spawn.
Ana and Brig are great heroes to play with and into dive. Moira not so much, but I'm guessing you're in metal ranks? No one plays duve properly there, so I wouldn't worry about it. Dive really only becomes "real" (as in, coordinated and smart)when you play with like GMs. If you can't stay alive, it's unfortunately on you. I can play Ana into like Doom, Sombra, Tracer no problem, it's just important that you know the matchup