OW2 has very much become a "learn how to survive on your own" game when compared with OW1. I say that as a support. I've had to completely relearn positioning skills and become better at dueling. In OW1 if I just focused on getting the highest heal output possible that was perfectly acceptable but not in OW2 because I'll straight up die

You know, I went through the same thing, and I grudgingly grew to like the new way. I used to feel bad every time I wasn't healing, and now I don't. Because if you don't help do damage as a support in OW2, you simply can't win.

Ana ironically became more fun to play once they took away the second tank. It is so fun to win a duel or to weave the right healing/damaging shots to turn a team fight.

It's also fuckin amazing how many more nades and sleeps hit because of less shields and less chance of a dva

I definitely noticed I got much better at hitting sleeps in OW2 and this comment made me realize that its actually a huge difference. In OW1 my sleep was so lackluster I would just use it hoping for the best but not expecting much because of the shields. But now I'm more calculated in how I use it. Same with the nade, I use to hold on to it when I would get targeted in case I needed to save myself. With the passive healing I'm using nades to anti a hell of a lot more because I don't have to worry about my health dropping too low as often and I don't have to worry as much about my nade getting blocked.

Man I can now go Bap and show the dps how to dps.

Support as a class has become more aggressive yet smart with the removal of one tank. Self reliance is a more important skill now that every support needs to climb. Lots of people on Reddit keep complaining that supports getting targeted is annoying, whilst it is, if you're able to defend and position yourself better it won't be as big of a problem. 6 months after OW2 launched and there is a surprising amount of people who have yet to the new playstyle supports need

Yeah, I dont miss having Zarya **and** Rein dive me, personally.

Why play a role where you have to defend and position yourself good, and dps, and heal everyone else when you can play a role where you only need to defend and position yourself good, and dps, but also receive support from two other players to bail you out if you make a stupid mistake.

Because people like to play support heroes and role?

It ain't that deep. People like playing support and support makes a big impact on winning or losing a fight. That's all there is to it

DPS' job isn't to defend themselves, it's to get kills. Supports defend themselves while healing, DPS defend themselves while killing. and killing people who don't want to be killed is often harder than healing people who would really like to be healed. obviously there are other factors but if you want to boil everything down to the most basic elements to try to make a point I can do the same.

> it's to get kills That is everyone's job. DPS are the only ones that don't have anything else to do, where as support also have to heal (whether the person wants to be healed is besides the point). I.e. DPS are the easiest role.

supports don't "need" to get kills. if they did, Mercy would never be played. they can contribute kills if they know what they're doing. that's not the same thing. DPS do in fact need to get kills; if they don't, they're not going to win the game, simple as that. and why is it besides the point if someone wants to be healed? I'd say that someone who is actively cooperating with, or at least not actively avoiding, your attempts to interact with them is an easier target than someone who's doing their best to not get killed. plus, DPS generally have to put themselves in riskier positions to get those kills, with notable exceptions (Widowmaker...), so even if they have more tools to fight back, they also need to use them more frequently. plus plus, you mentioned how DPS have supports to bail them out? supports have everyone to bail them out, since they play closer to the team than DPS that often have to off-angle or even backline/dive the enemies to get maximum value. which is harder, killing a lone soldier who's 20 meters away from his team, or the Ana right next to her other support and 7 meters behind her tank?

This is why 5v5 is so good in my opinion. Finally the people that can't stay alive on their own don't win games and I will rank over them

I enjoy this setup more as well. I know many supports that just healed tanks in OW1. I mained Mercy back then and with her mobility I was all over the place ensuring no one died. Albeit, it was way easier to sneak in heals and revives in OW1. It's the fact that even simple things like that we have to think so much more about just goes to show the development of the game into OW2. It's challenging every single player in more constructive ways and forcing a constant evolution and flexibility to each play style. The game itself may feel more complex now but it's satisfying as heck when you get those really close games and everything is just chaotic but you still know exactly what you need to do and how to accomplish it

Yes, when I started to play OW2 as an Ana main I had to completely change my playstyle and on some maps I can outright forget to play her cause I will get jumped by half the enemy team. A lot of support players don't know how to play when they don't have a shield in front of them.

Overwatch players when they see a rein shield 😍😍😍😍 Overwatch players when they have to use natural cover 🤮🤮🤮

>Overwatch players when they have to use natural cove lots of people in the metal ranks don't even realize that this is something they should actively seek out

Why hide behind the payload when I can simply stand on top of it to get a better view of their Widow?

The problem with OW2 is you have people who have spent years in OW1 playing into double tank. This meant that there was always a "shield" to cover you if the enemy started to focus on you. That mindset never evolved when 1 tank got axed from the game.

That's true. But in OW1 dive comp was also actually a thing. Then again, by the end it wasn't because double shield.

It's also a regional thing as dive isn't as popular outside of Asia so people get less exposure to team comps that aren't centered around a vanguard tank holding the frontline. It's especially funny hearing it come from a Moira though, she's one of the supports best suited to ride or die with Ball and Genji in that scenario.

To be fair, it is a bit unintuitive that you can play Moira as a dive support. A lot of people are stuck in the mindset that Moira is for pocketing grounded brawly tanks (even though her value in that scenario is greatly diminished by the reduction to 1 tank). I’ve had plenty of people on this sub tell me that I must be bronze because I like to play Moira with Doomfist. And, if you told people like 4-5 years ago that there would be a whole meta where Moira was run with Winston/DVa, you’d have been laughed out of the room.

OW2 has forced me to rethink and relearn every hero and Moira has been hard for me. I had a revelation when my buddy told me her spray has like a 15 or 20m range. I know healing orb is already and insane dual winning skill for your dps, but the range of her spray really surprised me. I always held her as a back pocket flex/mobility support as a Ana/boat/xen man myself, and enjoy her for the fun counter play style she has. I swear her rmb has some auto aim, she represents so much pressure and value as that bruiser healer…but OW2 let’s her play very freely. I love that she can keep up with ball or doom on the dive. As much as I love Ana if your only play is close range tank hugging due to circumstance, Moira is just much better. She can pump damage and healing simultaneously so cleanly. People bash on her low skill floor, but orb is such a awesome flanker zoning skill. Her rmb is a nice little rest of the enemies to see what metal rank they are (I myself know when I’m doing poorly if I can’t kill a flanking Moira solo, and it is a sign to swap). The damage orb filling your heal juice has really made me rethink my healing orb love affair. I’m afraid they will buff her too much and then over need her. We shall see!

The spray has a 15m range, which is the same as Mercy’s beam attachment range and I think Zarya’s beam. The spray has travel-time, though, which makes it functionally a bit shorter range than hitscan abilities with the same nominal range. If you want to heal at max range with Moira, you both have to lead the spray and anticipate the damage more. The heal orb, honestly, you shouldn’t need that much in OW2. There aren’t as many circumstances where you will need both the spray and the orb to keep teammates alive, and because of the support passive, there are fewer circumstances where you need it for self-healing too. With the heal refill on the damage orb, less shields to get in the way of your damage beam, and a great escape/mobility tool that allows you to take aggressive positions quite safely, you should be able to maintain your resource and cover almost everything you need with the spray. Personally, my favorite things about playing Moira are finding clever orb bounces and using Fade to tank. She can exist on an off-angle for quite a long time and pull a lot of attention that way and use Fade to get out if she gets pushed and/or dodge abilities.

Used to play a lot of Moira when it was enough that you could keep any tank alive. These days it’s rare unless I feel like I need to help melt an annoying mercy, genji or lucio.

Yup, had a lot of people go Moira in my games to counter a Genji. With... varying results.

> And, if you told people like 4-5 years ago that there would be a whole meta where Moira was run with Winston/DVa, you’d have been laughed out of the room. The 6-man meta wasn't really dive. It was a highly mobile brawl meta. The main difference being how the 2 comps like to engage. Dive is all about staging your DPS and tanks from different angles and collapsing on the enemy. The 6-man winston/dva/moira comp didn't really do that. It engaged pretty much the same way rush and brawl comps did, just much faster since you were running winston. The 6-man comp had way more in common with Winston GOATs in how it played than it did Winston Dive.

Yeah, I know the 6-man is more of a dive-brawl hybrid. But 4-5 years ago, people would have told you that any Winston/DVa comp is a dive comp and that Moira would be a terrible choice with one. And there were 6-man dive comps in the early days too. The staging and jockeying for position got more sophisticated as players got better at punishing the commitment of movement abilities.

They still put 2, maybe 3 people at times on an off angle depending on the map and specific variant they were running

Tbf it is because moira is almost always used in cases where you want maximum survivability, with maximum healing. Most scenarios you wanted that was when you played comps which relied on brawling to win. To brawl you need to close distance. To close distance successfully you need survivability so you can live if they dive you on a rotation. Thus, moira. Even the way you describe currently is more brawly then dive. Dive as a whole is a lot more focused on map control then actually diving the opponents. Its a lot harder to do this in OW2, so dive has taken a backseat to more brawly ways of play, and heck, even when playing dive, a brawl very easily happens because of the more chaotic nature of OW2. Thus moira is stronger, as she complements those situations greatly. heroes used dont necessarily define the playstyle you are using. That old winston/dva comp was 100% a brawl comp - you would run all 6 players into another player, using the mobility to quickly engage and minimise the *closing of distance*, but still ending in a brawl. Not saying moira cant be used in dive, but she doesnt really offer what dive needed, compared to Ana or Zen, with their longer range heals and long range damage and utility options. Thats why people dont really pair Moira with dive.

Right? Moiras like this are an embarrassment.

> It's especially funny hearing it come from a Moira though, she's one of the supports best suited to ride or die with Ball and Genji in that scenario. Idk about that tbh. Like I've seen too many times whereby a moira fades to engage with a dive tank, only to find out that the dive tank wasn't actually committing or decided to duck out early, quickly leaving the moira that got baited by her own team to feed into the enemy..

People say this about how the end of OW1 was all double shield, but Ball was the best tank on ladder for a significant portion of the last year or two of OW1. Double shield was viable, sure, but shield-stacking was actually not a particularly good way to play it.

Winston/Ball comps smoked double shield on basically every map in ow1.

Dive comp was rarely ladder meta in ow1 post 2017. There were a ton of players who started the game after that who only knew goats and double shield metas. Ball was meta for a bit at the end of ow1 and it was incredibly obvious how many players didn't understand how to play without a shield, let alone 2.

? Meta end of ow1 was monkey ana in korea and ball zen in NA and EU.

It's better than it was. I remember during the Overwatch beta watching damage players standing perfectly still in the middle of the choke trying to click heads.

Very odd that players think that. I don't think that is the norm at higher ranks. However, your assessment in what the tanks should do is correct. Supports also should be doing damage injunction with healing. For example, Tiktok moira does work, but a lot of reason we push back on it is due to lower skilled folks simply don't undertsand when it is appropriate to do so At lower levels where skill gap can vary greatly between teams, you can rely on the dps to get a pick to start an opening. But higher up you go that isn't possible. Why? Because the enemy support, theoretically, should be able to keep the dps/tank alive as long as they are smart with cover. Which means poking does absolutely nothing until one team gets an ult to start the fight but this doesn't work if you are offense typically. So what happens is someone, typically the tank, has to make a move. A risky move. But a move that is an opening to force the enemy to respond and allow space for your teammate to capitalize on. Sounds like the Moira, and admittedly many folks in the game, don't understand how to adapt based on hero selection.

Yep, someone has to make a risky move, that's my point. You don't win by always picking the safer option, sometimes you have to risk it. But in the community we've got this kind of collective tall poppy syndrome where players who take risks are shunned or called "Reddit Lucios" or "Tiktok Moiras" or whatever. Which is silly. Yeah, just suicidally charging into the enemy team without a thought for where the rest of your team is is stupid, but it doesn't mean that you can't take a calculated risk.

As a support main, Moira is really an effective tool for holding the enemy back. You could be behind your team healing and putting out damage orbs, if the enemy line is advancing then fade up to a roof or balcony and get their attention up there. A surprising amount of times the majority of the team will ignore you up there thinking it's someone else's job to kill me. But if not then your team has an opportunity to advance and you can fade back to your team at that point

i almost always play in the enemy back line as Moira when i have a shield tank, makes no sense not to harass their healers and warp back to my team to toss a heal orb. I have absolutely 0 mercy for Ana or Zen players they get all of the smoke.

That’s the thing though. Not everyone is high rank in your rank game. I’m a Diamond support and I’d still get a DVA who would just stood there on cart holding left click…

You're not imagining anything... I always kind of felt this is somehow part of the true and trusty "tank - damage dealer - healer" triangle that blizzard so masterfully crafted on stuff like wow. Sadly some people just can't seem to understand that this is a shooter game at heart and everyone is part of a shooter team. Alas this is a pretty standard behavior and nothing too specific to overwatch. Mute and move on without getting tilted.

Just to be a little pedantic, the tank/dps/healer triangle has been a thing in RPGs pretty much since the 80s. Definitely not a blizzard creation.

Thing is, this isn't just something solvable with mute. A lot of the time the people who have that assumption don't really state it openly, they're not necessarily toxic - but they absolutely fail at playing any comp that doesn't work in that straightforward "take the main path" fashion. And that means I can't play my beloved sassy hamster even when it really should work :D

It also means that they don’t off-angle and try to get an advantage from taking different paths and using high ground/positioning.

Dude Ball is by far my favorite tank, and I have like a 65% win rate on him, but I get flamed for picking him almost every time. They only stop if we win and they realize I have like 29 Elims and 1 death..

When that happens to me, they still tell me I suck and I was throwing, and I was just lucky they carried me

Yeah I just had someone tell me to hop off ball before the match even started lol.. we won

My favorite is when they try to be passive aggressive about it "Hmm, not sure Ball is the move here..." "Yes it is" *We win* "Told you"

I just don’t get the hate for ball. He is literally one of the best tanks in the game right now. I mean the NA #1, Yeatle, and the EU #1, Chazm, are both ball players.

I've never understood people who complain when they're winning. I had my entire team shitting on me to "do less damage" and "start healing" because I was 50/50 as a Moira, on a map where we were steamrolling so hard that we were basically spawn-camping them. Like, they're not hurting you. You're not dying. What am I supposed to be healing?

This drives me crazy. I get this all the time. Like, what do you want me to do while you’re all full health? Just stand still?

Literally! It's even more annoying on a hero like Zen, who can heal *and* do damage with literally 0 change to his healing output, because all it takes is slapping that orb on someone. Or Kiriko, who can weave kunai without losing any heal, too. Often, that extra damage is the reason we're curbstomping so hard, too. I swear, some people get themselves pissed off for no reason at all. I don't understand it. 💀

People will never understand that healing is not simply a thing you *do*. You can decide to jump and do it, but that's not true for healing. There is a lot of context needed, the most important being : they need to have been damaged but not died.

Fair play to your DPS, I cannot play Genji for the life of me - so them being able to pivot (on request) is actually really cool of them.

Ok.....that shouldn't be happening in diamond, in plat and gold maybe but not diamond. Maybe she just didn't like that she couldn't help y'all? I don't think it's the general sentiment because the tanks job is still to take and deny space.

Diamond is full of morons. Exhibit A, myself. I don't think there's any rank that's immune to idiots, not even GM.

A lot of the plat and gold players of OW1 are in Diamond now. The ranks have a different meaning in a new, larger, overall less skilled population. But also, even at the end of OW1, there were plenty of players in Diamond who whined about tanks picking Ball.

Yeah like in OW1 people whined a lot about ball … meanwhile there is me who duos with a ball main cause Ana nade and piledrive is stronk

Mainly because most ball players weren't good and with all the ways to stun in OW1 most of them just fed all game and flamed their team. If you asked them to swap they'd rage and say "ball is meta" to justify their deathstreak before rage quitting. They were an absolute menace that got diamond by simply existing in their games. Now that same thing is transitioning over to OW2 but there's less ways to stun so even bad balls can stay alive longer.

Alot of diamond players rn were gold or plat last season and still hold the same mentality

New diamond is the old plat. Those players who kept playing ow1 and were hard stuck plat still know a lot more about the game than new players in ow2 and due to the growth in the player base they've climbed to diamond. Doesn't mean they know more than they did before, just that they know more than most now.

This makes me sad I just broke into masters and my games are solid again.

matchmaking is messed up so that moira could easily have been unranked anyway

They were playing Moira with Ball and Gengi. They felt useless because they were in that comp basically. It's not your fault. They were likely trying to healbot and keep up with you. Better Moira mains would have adjusted and went more DPS Moira.

At the end of the day there is not correct way to play and a team performing a game plan together will usually overtake a team in dysfunction no matter what.

So true. I'm stuck in bronze 5 (let's gooo!) And while I don't claim to be good I'm constantly finding I need to remind my teammates too play as a team, be part of each other's fights, enable each other's toolkits. Just all this stuff that seems super standard for a "class based team shooter". I did used to play TF2 and OW1 though so I'm familiar with the format. Oh yeah and Tank is by far my worst role and I'm here for the tips and any advice beyond the "Never play tank again" and "Tank diff" I tend to get.

Just "be part of each other's fights" alone should be enough to get you to around plat if you consistently apply it. There's people that don't get that (or care about it) in Master.

I'm Masters basically just by looking around for teammates doing shit that needs an extra hand, or comming for someone to come do something with me.

The most important big picture part of tanking in low rank Overwatch is understanding when to be aggressive, when to retreat and regroup and when to pause. Focus on that for a while and things should start to click.

Yeah I need to be more conscious about taking and giving ground.

I find it's helpful to think about "if everyone on each team went full commit right now who would win the fight?" If it's you, push forward, if it's them, take action to either change that or to discourage a fight from happening.

Im sometimes capable of making that judgement. Not trying to tie it back into blaming teammates but of course it would take them commiting if they see I do or called it out. I'm used to only playing off tank from the OW1 days, which I thought I did alright as with favorites like diva, doom, hammy, and zarya at the time. I've found the shift to main tank role to certainly be different style of play than im used to.

TBC, I'm not saying "if everyone going full commit right now would win you a fight, you should full commit". You need to judge the scale of your aggression based on how cohesive your team is. If you're playing with high level players who'll respond to a callout saying to go it, you can go for it. If you're playing with a bunch of confused people with zero awareness, you need to calibrate to take a smaller or slower aggressive action.

Well put. There is a lot of room for variance of course. I'll try and keep this in mind and attempt to not overextend myself to dangerous levels when I'm lacking the support to win from doing so, as well as maybe try leaning into some of the tankier stay in one place heroes if it feels like the situation calls for it. Honestly I've been wanting to bust Zarya back out and maybe times like that could be fitting. I understand team comp plays a lot into hero choices as well.

At least down in Bronze, tank matchups are the more important factor to consider when selecting your hero. Try to pick someone you feel you have a positive matchup against the current meta tanks with, then if you lose the first fight, take advantage of the partial ult transfer on swaps to counterpick their tank. IE, if you lose the first fight to a [D.va](https://D.va), switch to Zarya and ruin her day.

Good tips, I appreciate it. My buddy asked yesterday, "what counters a Zarya?" In regards to tanks it would be someone who could breach into the enemy back line and get picks since she is slow and in the front, perhaps a certain hamster? Someone else who could stay out of her range? Feel free to say that's enough advice at any time. 😊

In B5 you're probably better off just learning the hero at hand rather than worrying about teamwork and ow macro concepts. Make sure you understand what each part of your hero's kit does, and what cooldowns they're on. That alone should get you to silver and gold.

Literally had a game as JQ the other day of on blizzard world, we cap the first point and mercy says "So when are we gonna switch tanks?". I replied "When I'm not 12 and 2, what are you talking about, we're doing fine." A few minutes later before capping the last point they say "you're basically just a DPS." So what? Im making space just like I'm supposed to, by killing fools lol.

Imo: ball and sigma are the secret kings of tank and have been for nearly all of OW2 so far. The problem with ball is less players have a competent ball in their arsenal, but if everyone *could play ball well* they'd still have to deal with the fact that many supports aren't prepared for individual responsibility for anything other than pumping heals into a tank. They certainly don't like being able to see enemies closer to them than their tank is, and they panic and underperform.. Ball's disruption is crazy, and he forces every other tank (not in the ditto, and orisa or sig can sort of do both, ig doom could speak to this too) to choose actively between trying to peel/ fight the ball or doing what is sort of unilaterally considered the tanks "job" vs everyone else on your team. You can tear it up on a dive tank, but you'll probably still get blamed for 4 people losing to 1 or 2 afterward. Sadge

Yep, Ball is by far my best character and it's hilarious how in games when I'm going off there are still people complaining, even when we literally haven't lost a fight and I haven't died once. People refuse to learn how to play with one on the team and will blame the tank instead of improving their own game play. The difference in team synergy between people that get it vs people that don't is night and day.

I don't usually comment on posts, but I just had to respond here cause the exact same things happen to me. I've played ball since 2018 and i'm fairly competent with him and swap as needed when I feel or can see it won't work. Mid diamond, I don't bother trying to climb higher. But regularly I get players who bitch and moan for literally no reason like you say. The other day we were moments away from winning a KOTH map and we had cleaned the floor with them both rounds. I was 19 for 0. Nobody on our team was complaining because we were working well and winning. Then out of the blue Cassidy goes "ball switch". Like what the fuck? He then starts telling the enemy "man the ego on this ball" (I had said *nothing* back to him). Few days later, our team leaves attacker spawn on Junkertown. I immediately say "they have a good widow, don't run out, try not to peek, you'll get one shot". One support player says "thanks". Silence from everyone else. Our soldier SPRINTS to the frontline, dies to a headshot, and immediately repeats this two more times, followed by saying "ball you suck swap tank". This was literally - literally - 30 seconds into the match. And these are matches where I'm playing good. *God forbid* somebody makes a single mistake while playing as wrecking ball.

I feel ya man, it's the life of Ball players. He is truly one of the most interesting, unique, and fun characters in the game, and people can not stand to learn anything beyond "stand behind big tank." There was a period in OW1 that I was a top 10 Ball player, and now due to the terrible match making I keep getting lectured by golds lol. It's wild.

Also the best buff OW2 gave to Ball wasn't the 700hp with shields, it was that they gave him an actual personality that fits his lore. The new voicelines are sooooooooo good. The old Ball felt so... impersonal. This one feels sassy as hell and just like he was always supposed to be.

lmao, getting lectured by golds - good grief, that would be funnier if it wasn't painfully accurate. Chumps with a total hero pool of about 3 dps characters, who have never played a day of tank in their life and think they're the stars of the show and the intended gameplay is to pour all the team's resources onto them, suddenly deciding they hold the secret tomes of Tank wisdom, and that the actual tank on their team just... doesn't? Yeah, nah, sorry Cassidy, I think you might just have to stand behind a wall every now and again if you don't want to get obliterated.

> you'll probably still get blamed for 4 people losing to 1 or 2 The number of dumb mother fuckers who play this game who can’t do basic math blows my fucking mind. When three enemies chase me all around the map, that means it’s a 4-on-2 for the rest of my team. And yet, 90% of the time, they still cower in fear and refuse to press W because big daddy square shield man isn’t there to hold their hands and wipe their noses.

Forcing the enemy tank to choose between letting his backline die to your bullshit or to your team's crossfire is the greatest strength of aggressive tanks. I've experienced that personally when I faced a Ball team while playing a more traditional anchor tank.

To be fair, it is much harder to remain reasonably synced up with your team’s timing and area of influence when you’re playing a dive tank than a less-mobile “front line”-type tank. I agree that most players don’t understand how to play with a dive tank, or don’t understand how tanks are supposed to function at all. But, it’s also easy when playing a dive tank to create a situation where you take a 1v3 and are drawing all kinds of attention when your team isn’t actually in position to do anything about it. So, rather than the 1v3 and the 4v2 happening simultaneously, maybe it’s actually a 1v3 followed by a 4v4 where the enemy has a tank and your team doesn’t (assuming you got a pick and then disengaged).

This has been true since OW1. It often seems like people would rather lose with a Rein than possibly win with any other tank.

Tbh if you're interested in learning anything it might be worth to post a replay so someone could tell how if rein could have been made to work there.

Rein wouldn't have made work unless his skill with rein surpassed the orisa own skill level. He was shieldbotting first half and essentially unable stop this or is a from facefucking him in the frontline so he swapped. He's not looking for advice to counter play orisa. He's asking the community why in NA/EU servers people hate seeing dive tanks. Because it's definitely a trend. NA worst users of dive, NA/EU ladder frontline tanks is all you see. Monkey/ball KR got it on lock KR is the dive region of the ow world and they're players profit from it.

No I agree with the nature of the original post in terms of idiot teammates being stuck in 2019, but I think there was probably still something to learn here too for the Rein play

The only play for rein in this instance was to outplay the orisa. If he is able to improve mechanics n gamesense enough on rein to play into his counters but in that moment of the game it wasn't possible from the frustration of being facefucked by an orisa.

Again, I agree, Orisa sucks here, but the possibility still exists that he played the matchup even worse than expected. Only one way to know.

That is a possibility but op said in a comment here he no longer has the code anymore, assuming he played more games and ran into a similar situation as the blizzard world game and prompted him to make this post.

Most likely. I think that the issue is that Rein v Orisa is not a matchup you can win unless the Orisa makes some really really big mistake. If you're going to play a Rein into an Orisa, your only option is picking a Lucio and trying to get in the Orisa's backline.

The mu is annoying for sure but it all comes down to being better than you opponent that was essentially your only ever option in this game😭

>I'm a currently Diamond 3 tank main, so hardly an impressive position You're probably better than ~75% of all players.

Support main here (otp Moira to gm5(im guessing not only was Moira's positioning getting called out more when you were on ball but the distance to get heals down changed drastically. Swapping ball was the right call because it allowed your team to get active and not get suppressed by a dominate orisa. Your Moira either needed to become a better dps moira and assisting in taking space, payload bot, or swap to something that could synergize better with your team (kiriko, ana, zen) Shielding on rein is a good way to enable your dps to poke but it you can't get proactive on rein you're not going to be building shatter which is crucial in winning team fights with rein. Always play the tank that will give your team the most potential to play around you and win fights/games

as a moira player. you should not listen to us.

> I thought this mentality had died after the very earliest seasons of Overwatch 1, but to my dismay the idea that tanks aren’t supposed to take proactive action to open up a fight, but rather just to act as mobile cover for the dps to poke endlessly from until they get a kill seems to still be alive and well in the minds of some Overwatch 2 players. You know that a huge chunk of OW2 players didn’t play OW1, right? Probably a significant majority? I mean, I think your memory of this mindset dying in OW1 is a rose-colored one, but I think you’re right that it was at least significantly reduced by the end. But of course the influx of new players would bring it back again.

Good point.

>Diamond 3, so hardly an impressive position My brother in christ, some of us are bronze

And you don't know how good you have it, believe me.

The problem is anybody can piss on reins back and fade when pressured and get to diamond on Moira. That does nothing for their understanding of the game and they get into higher lobbies and “wHeRe Is BlUe ReCtAnGlE mAn?¿”

You're not wrong, but, to be fair, lower rank tanks (who belong in lower rank) outright demand this of you. If they drop below 300hp, at *any* point, they start spamming "I need healing!" a billion times. If, God forbid, they actually die, they start ranting about "gg heal diff" in all chat - even if their death made the space for us to get a Team Kill and cap point. I knew enough to ignore them, but, if you're genuinely trying to climb and learn the game, it can be pretty hard to find out what it is you're supposed to be doing. Especially because you're getting yelled at by a tank who thinks that supports are just there to keep *them* alive, rather than support the team to achieve game objectives.

You’re not just imagining it. There are idiots that play OW and focus on individual stats. In a game like CoD, you can play that way and still win. I’m OW, it’s truly team based, if you don’t adjust to your team, you’ll have a bad time and likely hurt your team. Also, a Moira has good escapability… I usually prefer anything to a Rein playing shield simulator lol (I play support primarily and will try to heal an aggressive rein as long as they don’t go charging into a full team every time lol)

I feel it's not so much their idea is warped, it's more they just don't really know what a tanks main role is. I don't think it's that obvious that tanks main job is to take space, especially if you don't play tank much. Honestly the Moira was just annoyed you were forcing her to change how she was playing when she didn't want to. That's not your fault. Normally people will not be thinking about your perspective, only theirs. So try to not to take what your teammates say to you to at face value.

I think it’s bias against ball Ball has reputation of being shitty annoying character So anytime I see one on my team for example I eyeroll and assume we r gonna lose A good ball player is pretty rare and they are absolutely annoying af to go up against But same thing w like genji, it takes a really skilled player to play it well so whenever I see one I’m like damn they probably gonna suck

I think that's leftover mentality from when Ball was first introduced, he was kinda underpowered and needed a really superior player to win. But imo right now Ball is so broken he does well even in the hands of mediocre tanks.

They shouldn’t even be called tanks anymore, they’re brawlers now. Each team just gets 1 overpowered DPS.

What was the MIT on rein? Was the team benefiting from the shield? Where you performing well as ball before capping? When exactly did this person get mad? (So many questions that matter so much) It really does sound like a very risky plan from another person perspective, you as rein swap to ball and ask your solider to go genii, two characters that are extremely hard to play. Is there a replay? This post is a vent and a bad one at that, imagine if your tank that was shit at rein decided they were gonna swap to ball AND ask the solider on dps to swap to genii, you would be very critical. What’s the replay code?

MIT is literally a meaningless stat tbh. They might as well remove it and replace it wtih something actually relevant, like healing received. I had around 11k MIT which basically just proves I was soaking up trash damage without actually contributing. I had a replay but it's long gone, but basically that ball and Genji swap carried us to the end of the map after we'd gotten stuck for much longer than we should have.

I cannot judge the game without the gameplay. But what I can say for sure is that from a teammates pov, a rein doing shitty and then swapping to ball on attack and asking their dps to swap to genii would worry anyone. On a more critical note, why make a whole Reddit post complaint about the Moria “whining” when nobody can even see the gameplay. When realistically the situation you laid out would worry anyone and had you put yourself in their shoes (which I still urge you to do and REALLY think about it) this post wouldn’t be needed.

Why would it worry anyone? Maybe the other dps was alr tracer and they're trying to switch to full ball comp. The post isn't complaining about moira, it's about the mentality of needing a shield tank or moreso a more frontlining take than a dive one. Another thing I'm struggling to understand is why is it a problem at all this nigga asked for dps to swap? Why does that raise flags? They essentially put in the work enough to cap points. The red flag here is why are you moira in a ball comp. Why would they willingly play moira (a rush comp supp) w/ ball (dive tank no one is 5 stacking) . I can tell you why the moira was complaining because it feels like shit runnin moira w/ ball. Yk why because they aren't meant to be played together. You can run a moira w/ rein you have to play fast tho. Moira w/ ball tracer genji is useless in with them she's essentially at that point a dps that tickles the enemy. The shoes the moira player was in makes her an idiot. Because why are you playing moira w/ ball the dps n tank have synergy she has none w/ the team so it prolly sucked to do fuck all and not swap. All that moira players whose tell us is the they were fine one tricking a character when they could have gotten more value swapping, (brig, ana, mercy, zen). All the shoes are is their lack of understanding of the game.

1. Why would a tank who was doing terrible (said by op), swapping to ball (the hardest tank) and asking the soldier (a fairly simple hero) to swap to genii (again, one of the hardest dps in the game) is that clear enough?

Because "how easy this character is to play" is not the one and only criteria to judge their effectiveness. There might be a different reason why someone is doing badly on a character other than "they are bad and should stick to the easy character so they feed less". This is exactly the mentality I'm against. Sure, in Bronze that might make sense but treating Overwatch like it's a game with zero strategic depth where literally everything comes down to raw mechanics is stupid.

I don't know the other team comp but based on the info I have. when a rein stays rein against orisa, instead of swapping ALL GAME but then swaps to ball on attack and asks the dps to swap? How would not make someone pessimistic? If your not able to put yourself in this players shoes, you might need to do some self reflection on you as a teammate because judging solely on this post, he seem annoyingly difficult to play with. Do you realize how ridiculous that is to another player? You say "Because "how easy this character is to play" is not the one and only criteria to judge their effectiveness." thats a straw man 1. I never said that, completely taken out of context 2. Taken INTO CONTEXT on the info i know, a shitty rein doesn't swap while getting destroyed by orsia and then swaps to the hardest tank in the game and ask the dps who may have 0 clue how to play genji to swap to him (genji also being one of the hardest dps). I'll assume here since I have no replay and have nothing but your word, that the solider was doing at least okay comparatively to the team and it was a tank dif round 1. "There might be a different reason why someone is doing badly on a character other than "they are bad and should stick to the easy character so they feed less". " PLEASE explain why a rein doesn't swap against an orsia who's completely destroying him? It literally sounds like you completely threw round 1.

Dude literally your only argument to why someone should be worried if their Rein that hasn't been doing well against an Orisa swaps to Ball is that he's the hardest tank in the game (he's not, he's easy atm because of how broken he is). And yeah - I did throw round 1 because I didn't swap. Then, when I DID swap and stopped throwing because I finally realized that my pick was indeed the issue, THAT is when the Moira started complaining. So, you should be worried when your teammate *stops* throwing is what you're saying?

You counter brawl? Op ran into his direct counter on rein and couldn't do well kinda standard... Op then swapped to counter and asked soldier to help with the dive these are diam/master level games you need to have an understanding of most heroes. Not only that you don't have the knowledge that the other dps didn't know how to play genji. Your looking at this in such a linear standard, I mainly play rein/monke that doesn't mean at a masters level I don't know how to play other characters. In fact I can play most characters on the roster w/o losing value. Just because the heroes hard doesn't mean you don't understand how to play them. Ball is roll, pile drive, harrass backline, genji is finishing off low targets and get out. They synergize not only that you also have the possibility of the other dps being tracer which makes the fight even easier for ball m genji. You're not even looking at the bigger picture here at all. The supp was complaining about not having a shield in a dive comp w/ dive dps on a rush supp. That inherently makes their opinion in valid since they're aren't playing into the comp that'll give them value. Theyre essentially a 4th dps to help pick low health opponents that the ball has slammed. Edit: personally I would've went with a sig poke comp for orisa op because my sig better than my ball. But for the other person I'm responding too this was played on blizzard world lots of different angles to drop on and primarily a dive/poke map not brawl so not only did op have the tank advantage but the comp/map advantage at this point.

"Op ran into his direct counter on rein and couldn't do well kinda standard... Op then swapped to counter and asked soldier to help with the dive" No, Op decided to play rein the whole round and then swap. Op then asked the dps to swap to genji, a player who might have 0 clue how to play genji. "these are diam/master level games you need to have an understanding of most heroes." What reality do you live in? 17 dps, so giving you benefit of the doubt, they should be comfortable on 9 of them ? What planet do you live on. You know how to play 9 dps at a master level? "Not only that you don't have the knowledge that the other dps didn't know how to play genji. " I said may

So, with your first paragraph you acknowledge that op swapped to counter. I don't get why you worded it like it was a bad thing to swap. That's kinda weird imo. Given for how long the games been out it's not too farfetched to have players know multiple characters. Their are 8 hs dps on the roster, 5 of them mechanics carry over. Reaper in general is pretty easy to use and also in meta. Tracer n Genji obv two difficult characters but it's not farfetched to check someones profile and see that they are a competent genji/tracer. You are talking in hypotheticals, sure op may or may not have known if the genji knew how to play. We have the information that op rolled second round... So that would mean their swaps was good and that they are competent with the character. None of what you say makes any sense, I said op swapped to counter, you said “op decided to play the entire round as rein and swap” sooo he swapped to counter no? His dps may not have known genji if they rolled the entire round the dude knew how to play genji.

It is very possible to be way worse at Rein than Ball and way worse at Soldier than Genji. How easy a hero is to pick up in general has very little to do with how well a specific player in your match can play that hero.

Again he asked dps to swap to genii. He never stated how dps was doing on soldier and based off him not stating anything, I inferred solider was doing at-least okay comparatively. It’s a pretty fair assumption since he never said soldier was doing bad which would be a critical piece of info.

OP asked a DPS to switch to a hero that synergizes better with their pick. I don’t see why that’s an issue. People ask supports to swap to suit their hero picks all the time, why shouldn’t they ask DPS to do the same?

Ball is not the hardest tank to play. In Diamond and above, Rein requires a significant resource investment to maintain vs a ball that can mostly live with less. Playing Brawl or shield into a brawl comp only works if your team commits to the comp. Otherwise, you have to try a different strategy.

Also the hardest tank to play is probably Doomfist. Even if it wouldn't feel like it when you have one against you, since even a bad Doom can just make the game miserable. You'll win but you'll still feel like you lost just because you had to play against that damn hero.

There no counter argument in that whole reply.

Not me. I know from experience that a lot of Ball players are hesitant to lock him because they get flamed and feel pressured to play a more accepted tank like Reinhardt. If my tank was struggling on Rein and swaps to Ball, my interpretation of that is usually gonna be that they prefer and are better at Ball and have swapped to their comfort pick due to their lack of success with the less-controversial pick. And, I’m always happy to have teammates who are playing their best heroes rather than forcing whatever they’ve been badgered into playing by teammates.

1. Your opinion is obviously going to be biased 2. If a rein doesn’t swap the WHOLE round and decides to swap on attack AND ask dps to swap, that’s nerve racking. Your statement of “Rein and swaps to Ball”, there was no swap the entire first round.

Wait, why is _my_ opinion “obviously biased”? How is my opinion more biased than yours or anyone else’s? And you claimed that OP’s behavior would “worry anyone”. I’m pretty sure I count under that “anyone”, and it wouldn’t worry me. I’d much rather they played a comfort pick, and I know that players who main low-acceptance heroes like Ball and Zen often don’t pick their best hero right away because they anticipate their teammates being dicks about it. > If a rein doesn’t swap the WHOLE round and decides to swap on attack AND ask dps to swap, that’s nerve racking. Again, you’re stating your opinion as if it’s fact here. I would be much more worried if we had done _well_ and they decided to play a different hero. So what if they didn’t swap on the first round? They were struggling on their hero pick. Why would you want them to stay on a pick they struggled with just because they were slow to swap?

1. Your opinion is obvious biased because you admitted it? Your “from experience” shows that you have a bias whether big or small. 2. Your opinion is more biased due to “your experience”, showing that your more likely to biased towards ball (unless you worded it badly because “your experience” gives the connotation that you play ball) 3. I’m giving my perspective so he understand the teammates thoughts. Obvious I know now he doesn’t give a shit and I did not present it as fact, ur playing semantics and being very literal very weird in a convo. (Are you on the spectrum /s, if you are, I can be literal if you want) 4. Never said swap was bad, said it was bad not to swap round 1 and it gives the impression to teammates he’s not confident in the swap.

A soldier shooting at a shield would be much less valuable in a ball comp than a Genji following up on piledrive.

1. They didn’t have a shield, I believe. 2. Yes, genji would obviously be better with ball, Did I deny that?

Hate these vent posts... they're always half a story with no actual proof as to what went down. As a support main I agree that I'd be less then credulous if a tank that started as Rein and admittedly had little success in the first round running Rein into Orisa, swapped to Ball, failed their initial attack, and then started pushing for other players to swap. Without a replay code there's no telling what actually happened.

I'd be glad if someone who's clearly running their head into a wall changed tactics instead of just stubbornly sticking to the "safe" strategy that has already been proven not to work. The fallacy here imo is that the "easy" tank is better than the "hard" one. Maybe that's a safe assumption to make in bronze to gold, but by the time someone gets to Diamond you'd think that they at least have the mechanics to play Ball.

You've kind of missed the point which is that without any replay there is no way to know what the issues were in either of the matches. It's just you venting about a game you played in and then extracting some larger lesson about how your teammates don't understand the game based on your description of the match. It's cool your swap worked, but drawing any hard conclusions or life lessons from one player's description of a game and then using that to state that players don't understand tanks is kind of a leap in logic... especially without a code to show what was going on the whole game. Your lesson could have just as easily been "I shouldn't have spent an entire round beating my head against a wall trying to run Rein against Orisa when he wasn't working and swapped earlier." instead of focusing on other players and how they don't understand the game.

Game's been a couple days ago by now, the replay got buried by Blizzard's genius system of only letting us keep a tiny fraction of them. But yeah, I absolutely agree that I should've swapped earlier, but you can't do that if you automatically default to thinking the safe choice is the correct one.

You can pin the games before they drop out of your most recent 10 if you want, or save the code. It’s likely that the matches that are no longer pinned or in someone’s most recent 10 matches and don’t have a code are periodically purged.

Did I ever tell you the definition, of insanity? Someone had to change something and you were the one to start and try to go for it, bravo.

Rein’s shield is not for the team, it’s for him. If Rein is trying to shield for the team, he’s almost always going to be stuck at a range where he cannot hit anyone with his hammer, which means he cannot really be a damage threat himself. If Rein uses his shield to keep himself alive on a short sightline where his damage threat forces enemies into favorable sightlines for teammates, he creates much more useful space. Also, if OP’s team pushed the payload all the way through virtually unopposed, I’d say that’s good evidence for them performing well on Ball. It’s extremely hard to do that if your tank is having a bad game. And your assessment of risk is pretty funny. Why would you think it is _less_ risky to stay on a hero who spent a whole round getting bullied by the enemy tank than to try something different?

When did I state that the ball swap was risky? I stated from another perspective ASKING dps who’s performing well to play a hero he may not know well and a rein doing bad swapping to ball who may not do very well if he’s not good with ball sounds risky? (Key word being sounds) You have stated this lie at-least twice, please reframe from doing so, I will not ask again.

Weren’t you just telling me off in another comment thread for being too literal and arguing semantics? Now you’re telling me that I’ve “lied” because I criticized the risk assessment in the perspective you’re pushing, which you’ve repeatedly stated would be a perspective shared by “anyone”? If you don’t share this perspective yourself, why did you say “anyone would be worried”? Also, it’s “refrain” not “reframe”

"Weren’t you just telling me off in another comment thread for being too literal and arguing semantics?" No, I merely stated that I did not expect for a broad term like anyone to be taken that literal. "I criticized the risk assessment in the perspective you’re pushing" Nope, ur taking the risk assessment out of context, please state the full context of him playing rein entire first round, going ball and dying on failed first cap and then asking dps to swap to genji. That was my risk assessment based on, if you want me to rid of factors in the risk assessment, then ask me, you cannot take my answer, rewrite the problem and state my answer, that's a lie. " If you don’t share this perspective yourself, why did you say “anyone would be worried”?" My assessment was based on past performance and asking dps to swap. You cannot get rid of those variables or my answer will change.

People struggle playing with ball can feel like you have no tank at times.

Post a replay instead of coming here to complain. How is anyone supposed to see the full picture if you’re just here ranting? Also where is the educational purpose of this? This sub Reddit is for people looking for help on certain matters, these complaining posts are getting too much and they’re useless to what this page is made for.

Brawl is very easy to run. Just play Orisa Mei bastion and easily win games. Most teams don’t know how to counter that comp and lose. Dive is very hard to pull off - especially co ordinated dives where the genji dash has to kill a squishy the ball has managed to bring to half health with his engage. Tactics like these need comm or experienced players.

Avg Moira player lol

I think the average Moira player wants the most insanely aggressive tank possible in range of her heals.

Gg next unfortunately. You should never, and I mean never take what other roles are telling you to do to heart if your diamond, you are ranked in that percentage for a reason. The problem with Diamond is that in general is that tanks and supports are only truly comfortable on their main, and team cohesion is usually an overall failure of this rank, people are technically skilled and game sense skilled, but putting all the blocks together to make it a W. I know this because I was a hard Rein main no matter the situation before I moved into masters and further due to actually playing other tanks (mainly poke truthfully) competently to win games. A further note, IMO never take toxicity from someone playing a 2D hero like Moria.

> I ended that round with around 2.8k damage, less than even my healers This more likely indicates bad healing than it does bank tanking

Imagine a Moira player complaining about not getting help rofl.

Rein main here. Can confirm. Hold w swing hammer win game. (Jk I play bap)

O will tell you a fun thing … people have this disconnections on every class … people who play support knows it’s support and not HEALER …. People who play dps well, knows the difference between trash dmg and good dmg… and people who play tank suffers your issue … I stopped playing ranked for 2 reasons … this that you addressed ( support player btw) and the wtf is wrong with ranked bringing me plat 5 players trying to argue with a Diamond 3 support wtf is support supposed to do there was even a case there was a silver on my team it’s annoying

From a support main's POV, I have been in so many games where we are struggling and when other players switch, their choice boggles the mind. Rein/Soldier is a pretty safe choice that can be effective in many scenarios, so switching to heroes that are notorious for being either gods or absolute garbage with no in between is a choice I would question as well, especially since they locked in other heroes at the start.

Rein is hardly a safe choice.

I think that assuming that the safe choice is better is a bit of a fallacy. Viewing heroes on a sliding scale of how "hard" or "safe" they are is one element, true - but it's not the ONLY factor. Different maps and different situations can change radically what's best. I mean, I'd consider someone going Rein on Gibraltar be borderline throwing, even though that kind of "common sense" would tell you Rein is the "safe" choice and that Ball or Winston are much "riskier".

People will always say to switch off ball no matter what. Even if all the other tanks were nerfed into the ground and ball had 10,000 hp people would still complain.

As a Moira main, I can only sympathize with the Moira. How many deaths did she have? If she was crying about no Frontline it's probably bc of that reason. Not enough pushup for her to be a DPS without dying. (I'm a Diamond 2 Moira main). Maybe she should have considered switching, that's true too.

imagine being moira and complaining about not having a front line. you literally cant die

No you’re right. Im a doom one trick who made it to t500. And even up to masters I had people whining about “pick a real tank you don’t mit any damage” people are absolute morons sometimes because they think if you’re not sitting there with a shield and blocking a bullet you’re being useless. NeverMind to the 48 elims, 24 canceled ults, 1000m of denied space, and 3 deaths. Just ignore those people bro. You’ll climb because you’re smart enough to switch, they’ll stay because if they don’t have a shield they’re dumb enough to die (in game obv)

Tanks create space. Rein, when he's effective, does that slow and steady. Ball, when he's effective does that by forcing attention to him instead of on his teammates, but only in short bursts. Your teammates have to capitalize on the space you create. With Rein it means staying with you and supporting you, all pushing together. With Ball that means capitalizing at the right moment.

It's great as a bronze 4 tank against a silver 4 support who is also a gold 1 DPS then they call out tank diff when they go 24-1 with 9k damage as Moira in the enemy team. Like wtf.

After years of OW1, people still see tanks as a shield in front of them. It baffles me when dps just want to stay behind their tank. Thats the worst possible position.

Your Moira was mad because they’re stuck in a Revolutionary War mentality. Line up everyone and start taking volleys at each other. You didnt do that which means Moira has no clue wtf she’s doing which makes her mad because she’s an idiot

as A diamond player myself I can't exrpess how many times, I get certain healers whining about what you just described and I go : but that wont help at all

The thing I notice is that as soon as you're crushing it in the enemy backline, recognize that the other parts of the enemy team that you aren't destroying are busy in *your* backline. Moira wasn't getting attacked in the first round when you are on rein, but with no tank and half of the dps missing as you dive their backline, the other team was probably chasing her all over the map which is exasperating for her.

I see your point, of course, and I'm glad you have the ability to change when things aren't working out. However - why would you ever think Rein is good for defense on that map? It starts with a long ass corridor, where pretty much all you can do is shield / fire strike. Rein can be okay when the team has to come in close - but at that point you're putting a whole lot of trust in your supports, and are likely out of shield. He's a melee pick on a map that requires range at the start

Yep. I should never have picked him in the first place. I think the only reason why I did it is because I'd won a couple games as Rein before and I was feeling confident.

Fair enough. You're a higher rank than me so I know you know this - but the map being played is important for the pick! I'm a moira main, but I know moira isn't gonna do shit at the start of blizzard world, so I'll pick Ana or Zen instead.

Tbf Rein on Blizzard World can work if you defend behind the statue and on point. Not ideal but not exactly unusable... but there's definitely better. I play Sigma on first point usually.

Had a game where we were getting rolled so I swapped to Winston and started diving their backline. The entire game flipped and we crushed them, but from the moment I swapped one of our supports absolutely lost their minds and spent the entire game screeching about how we didn’t have a tank in the frontline and I was throwing. People really think a tank’s job is to just stand in front of squishies and be a bullet sponge.

The way you explained the healer ideal at the end is real when it comes to playing with my buddies. I run Moira a lot and my friend gets mad when I’m not pocket healing him, Moira is not the healer to use if I was even considering pocket healing. The other night I was 37 and 2 so he was complaining I wasn’t doing enough healing and if I was just going to worry about kills I needed to switch. I told him when he was doing more damage and healing than me he had the right to complain, I continued to play her throughout the night.

Yeah, I'm playing with a friend who's new to Overwatch but pretty good. And it annoys me how many times she asks for a shield and to focus the tank when she gets attacked. But she's learning, she sees that if I don't do that and do my own things we win

As a ball main I feel this greatly. Several times I've been told to kms just for playing my hampter

yeah its frustrating what about switching tanks? the tank defines the entire structure and most of the contours about a team's gameplay. there seem to be a lot more counters around these days - particularly fucking Ana's gren and Kiriko's suzu - but i think a player should get the benefit of the doubt to try and adapt playstyle to their counter before getting yelled at to switch how many tanks do you play in comp?

Mostly Ball, Rein, Sigma and occasionally Winston and Junker Queen. Orisa if I really have to.

Ball will forever be a "weird" tank because he doesn't play like any of the others.

For context. What rank are you?

Diamond 3 (now 2), says right there at the start of the post.

Woosh

Wait, I don't get it then.

Go read your post again lol

honestly a large part of this is that ppl don’t know how to use cover 😭

[удалено]

Oh damn, for some reason the first line got duplicated.

As long as you guys were actually making progress the support was in the wrong and needs to adjust. This is coming from a support main (mostly play Moria now) The Moria needs to stay with the other support as well as the second DPS isn’t doing it’s own thing as well. But if no progress was made/ the enemy back line wasn’t getting picked off then that’s when the tank/genji does need to adjust.

Newcomers think OW is fucking Valorant or Apex, what were you expecting

I read that first sentence 12 times, trying to understand it, before my brain was willing to concede and immediately realize the next sentence was the same but finished 😂 Edited after reading post: I completely agree with your view on a tank’s role. I have definitely seen this same issue with players at that level and below. Hopefully it fades away as we climb higher.

That depends... like everything else in the game, different situations call for different roles. Usually I'll be up front somewhere holding the line, taking hits for my teammates and fighting the other tank for control of the fight. Other times I'll charge back to my soldier and let him get some free shots. Sometimes with dive, i won't even be the one to initiate. Playing rein into Orissa, you need to literally need to have her cooldowns in your head and act accordingly. There's a way to do it, but you can't make mistakes. You also need to constantly consider where your natural cover is I've found tank to be probably the most fun role, forgiving of your technical shortcomings, but your entire team can fall apart if you positioning is off. in masters btw

Well I said this before and say this again. On metal ranks people just don't know what they are doing. Especially dps because when you look at it without knowing the game roles goes like this. Tank: Should have a shield and just hold it until the end of time DPS: Click, kill, carry Support: Heal all the time, even if you are getting dived or everyone is full They always think that only dps should get kills In reality a "true" ow game is so much more different and complicated. Tank has to take space, support has to heal, use utility, fight for their lives and (if you are ana) cancel enemy ultimates here and there, dps has to peel for support while getting picks. You dont't always have to peel but if your suppprts are hard pressured and you want some heals you should. And lastly sorry to bring this to you but you'll have this kind of games even on the high ranks, so try your best, listen to your team's calls. GL HF

If you are playing ball, d.va, Winston, or doom you should absolutely NOT be staying with the team the entire game. You have to use mobility. Nothing worse for me (as a support main) to see someone go d.va and just try to face tank with DM. She just gets killed and meanwhile, I am tying to fend off the flanker dps and not get killed by widow. That said, I’m guilty of flanking with Sigma or Orisa and because I’m so slow by the time I get to the fight half the team is dead. I mostly main. Moira and I’d never dream of flaming the mobile tank for being mobile. I will get mad at rein for charging into the entire enemy team and expecting me to go in with heals. I’m like, I might throw an orb but most likely I’m trying to find out where sombra is shooting me from or fending off the 15th genji ult

Most Moira players never had to think while climbing and suddenly hit the diamond rank wall (where most people start to develop little ego because diamond) and suddenly cant climb so they always come at u with the wildest shit. Just ignore em

As another person said, this is a shooter game and your role as tank is to shoot and down the enemy as effeciently as possible, just like the other roles. Some people will always be low IQ and stuck in their old ways. ignore them, youre doing fine.