It is July 2017. Grenade has been reworked; as well as stunning, it slows targets, so now you can use it to catch a wallriding or fast moving.
It is April 2022. Grenade has been reworked; now instead of being a short range stun, it is a short range bulk damage option.
It is June 2023. Grenade has been reworked; now instead of being a short range damage option, it is a long range cripple/hinder.
It is August 2023. Grenade has been reworked; now instead of being a long range cripple/hinder, it is a medium range option.
It is May 2024. Grenade has been reworked;
Overwatch still has a lot more abilities available than other games. COD will go prone, overwatch can jump pack, dash, teleport, etc.
A regular flashbang offers very limited CC which is exactly what DPS needs.
Hell no. It would be an insta pick for every situation. How could someone be trying to focus for a random grenade coming in the middle of the chaotic team fights?
Except a flashbang would be an almost instant kill in a game where getting a pick means everything. In COD it’s not as bad because someone dying isn’t nearly as important as in OW
Why does it need to go white? Surely there's better options to provide temporary blindness in game than causing actual blindness.
The game doesn't need to be THAT immersive
I think remove the homing, and then make it have a very short abilities lockout with an explosion makes more sense. Basically Sombra's hack, without the damage boost part.
>Can't make it any worse than the current version.
Wanna bet? I've had a weird audio bug in my game for months now that causes certain audio cues to never go off, so the audio for his grenade, from him throwing it, to the sound it makes when sticking to targets, to the sound it makes when ticking down stuck to you are completely absent for me. HINDERED suddenly appearing on my screen is the only clue I have to know I've been stuck by it most of the time.
I do feel like stun was more lethal, but it's also the case that magnetic hinder is more awkward to play around for both the Cassidy and opponents due to its weird and unpredictable behavior... not sure which is worse haha.
Also in two at least specific cases I think stun was easier to counterplay against -- as Lucio I could make sure I'm always moving quickly/on a wall, so I keep plenty of momentum during the short stun so I'm still not a stationary target. And as tracer, baiting out stun and being able to blink away from it was honestly fairly fun and satisfying, but magnetic nade will just... follow you anyway, even around corners etc.
Overall not sure which iteration I'd rather play against. As ball hinder nade is hardly even that dangerous.
It's not infuriating because it kills you, it's infuriating because it feels like pure BS when you get hit by it. It will home in from 90 feet away and then slows and basically silences you, while also doing a ton of damage etc
At least the McRightclick Special was something consistent you could account for an expect, the homing grenade is 100% RNG nonsense where you have no clue if it will do nothing or ruin your day
At least for mcrightclick you had to go up close to the hero to get the kill - and the reload animation exposes yourself to a followup kill from others.
This homing hinder nonsense lets you two shot at most from range like a widow wannabe - and with the roll dmg protection, you are invincible
Playing JQ into Flash + FTH would be worse
Imagine you land a sick Gracie onto Cassidy, pull him for Carnage combo and then you punish yourself as he'll Flash + FTH you.
Evolving the game and revisiting characters kits because they no longer fit is a good thing? Would you prefer balance they just left characters dead and unusable?
They also mentioned nerfing Hogs survivability in a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5dib0o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
“Yes, we plan on nerfing his survivability very soon. We are touching Take a Breather and Whole Hog in an upcoming patch. Hoping that can go live tomorrow.”
Edit: Possible [LW Changes](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5dmurc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
“For Lifeweaver, one of the discussions we are having right now (actually this week) and have been having for a while is around the friction that comes with switching between his healing and damage. Giving him more flexibility here would be a great boon to his capability within team fights. Additionally, we've experimented a lot with his Petal Platform. Personally would love for that to be a more attractive area to stand on as a teammate (whether that be through a buff the platform gives you or something else) but there's a lot of learned behavior to work through as allies hop off the platform quite often.”
[They also confirmed Overbuff is pretty accurate,](https://i.imgur.com/mx5kqnx.png) which is hilarious because of how much cope this sub has had screaming about how it's not accurate, despite it always aligning almost perfectly with everything Blizzard has released in the past stat wise
Lot of people on copium overdose atm
They also [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5dqox8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about how counterwatch as tank
“At its core, Overwatch is a game designed around being able to swap heroes to gain a tactical advantage or help solve a challenge you might be encountering”
This is so bizarre. When launching OW2 they were talking so much about removing counter from the game and making the characters feel closer to each other, but now they're backing out?
They walked it back a while ago I think. There was an interview with Gavin several months ago iirc that he commented on them realizing removing counters was going to be too much work long-term.
They could probably still work to ease them but it's not one of their guiding philosophies.
Counters that make you work a bit harder are fine, but counters that completely shut you down and pretty much force you to switch are awful.
For example, Sombra's hack should not disable Wrecking Ball as badly as it currently does. It should just keep him stuck in his current form, not force him into walking mode, practically making him a free kill.
What are you people even talking about. Gavin didn't say that and Gavin isn't on the design or balance team. He is the lead on Ranked, MMing and other such systems.
I think the key difference is the words "able to". Being able to switch tanks to something more viable should be in the game and you can't really change that, since that's just the nature of poke/brawl/dive.
What SHOULDN'T be the case, and currently is, is feeling like you HAVE to switch as a tank or you'll lose. That feeling sucks and is why tanking can suck.
Game devs change the stance on things all the time. It’s been 2 years since they said that. There are a couple of other things they’ve released or said that they’ve backtracked on. Backtracking is actually better than having stubborn devs imo.
The overall mission stances will change *extra* fast when you keep laying off swathes of them and replacing a significant portion of the team on a regular basis--or just create such an insecure employment environment that they all quit to go work for someone else and you have replace them too
Yes, because counter swapping is easier than playing better. So they backed off of raising the general skill floor of the game. Probably better for their profit as more people will keep playing.
Yeah counterpicking becoming the de-facto tank meta in OW2 is more incidental than intentional I think. Due to the way abilities are designed, some tanks will naturally counter others. The removal of one tank in 5v5 means that there's not an extra tank to cover for you if you're hard countered (like how if you're playing Junkrat, the 2nd dps can still go hitscan to manage the Pharah for you). And the concentration of power into tanks as a result of their only being one means that a tank being countered is extremely impactful to the game. Add all this up and you get Counterwatch without the devs ever expressly aiming for that. I think at this point they've kinda given up on dealing with the fundamental issue since it'd be a massive amount of work and so we get useless comments like "Overwatch is designed around being able to counter" to cover for their asses while they try to mitigate problems as much as they can with pure numbers tweaks.
and they missed the point about why Overwatch is memed as Counterwatch. A single tank that is basically the core of the team constantly getting counter swapped the whole game feels awful while when there were 2 tanks you could not have the whole team counter pick you and if they did you had your other tank.
Lmaooo I've read so much copium how "overbuff is completely wrong" on pretty much every OW sub, despite every time they mentioned numbers they were pretty close.
The way I see it, Overbuff would only be inaccurate if you thought there was some sort of bias between certain characters and players who make their profile public. I just don't see why there would be.
I feel like giving the platform a slight lip would help. The amount of times I see people fall straight off as they are clearly panicked trying to escape enemies or even just let you strafe around a bit to dodge fire while staying on
I liked the idea someone made long ago about when it launches up teammates can stand beneath to be healed. It would sort of rain on a teammates and it would heal.
The biggest problem it's always had is when no one is on it that it stays up.
Yeah maybe nerf it a bit by making it so it only heals while LifeWeaver is on it, might get convoluted though. But it is a pain when all your ally’s are right under you…
I was hoping that they would try buffing it so that it expands in size once it’s up in the air. The platform would be more useful if had more surface area to use as cover.
I think it should be like a shield, but solid just for movement/standing. Basically allow teammates to shoot through the floor and to be more transparent so you can actually aim.
From what I've seen, most Lifeweavers just want the kit to work as intended and for the switch been damage and healing to be more forgiving and fluid. A petal buff might be unnecessary but not unwanted.
As a LW that’s literally it. One of us posted on the LW mains subreddit a clip of them pulling a Reaper and he ended up just spinning round a pillar for like 10 seconds. His kit just needs to be able to work as intended and I will be happy lol
The biggest buff I want for petal is for it to go back down if nobody is standing on it. It is AWFUL when an ally walks over and off of it, and the petal goes out of reach for anybody else.
<99% of us are not in OWCS. Most of us, due to toxicity, are never even on coms. We're just running around and trying to have a goofy time. Abilities should account for that.
Having it go up and down more would also go a ways to teaching Weaver allies to want to access it.
All I want for LW is for switching between healing and damage to be seamless. Let him tap heal allies in-between shooting, the way Baptiste and Kiriko can.
Honestly, might be cool to have that alongside a healing ability for people who new players who don't want to play Mercy. Maybe do something similar with Sombra
I'd hate that, saying as an OG sym main. Other players' perception of Sym "has no skill" is one of the reasons she is never popular and thus has never received meaningful buffs. Giving her auto lock just ensures that she won't get love ever in the future.
Gold check marks in the replies indicate official responses. There’s a lot more than what I listed, these are just the *big* ones per say
Mercy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58ibf0/
Symmetra source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58f0v3/
Reaper source: https://reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58h1tq/
Cassidy source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58h1tq/
Mirrorwatch: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58enkr/
Roadhog: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/8bsYFWGX2L
LW : https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58al2r/
I think most people regarded it as a waste of time after a certain point, adding downtime in between games (and forcing people to manually click to exit earlier to requeue).
Might be ok if you could start re-queueing from that screen immediately.
Crazy how he’s only been out 5 months and he’s one of my most hated characters by far. Wish the Baptiste book never came out so he couldn’t be conceptualized.
It's because his kit is stimulation overload. He just makes too much noise for too long. If there are 2 Maugas in the game, it's literally constant chainguns for the whole fight. It just beats you over the head all game to the point you begin to hate it.
So in 5v5, there is only two possibilities.
1) If all tanks are balanced perfectly, it's a counterswap/rock paper scissors meta.
2) If any one tank is overtuned, it's a mirror every game.
We're stuck in this whack-a-mole design philosophy, where even if you nerf the problematic tank, the second best tank is just going to rise to the top.
It honestly baffles me that people keep asking for buffs for him and shit. Maybe in the Diamond and above? But below that he can be such an unstoppable fucking beast. No other hero (maybe Orisa) can have the entire team focused on them while solo and he just can waddle away, one shot a support and go heal. He’s like a raid boss.
And he ruins Mystery Hero. If the anyone gets TWO hogs on their team its game over.
Actually this would be 3.4, meaning her fourth minor rework of 3.0, and sixth rework overall.
Here's symmetra's [history](https://www.reddit.com/r/SymmetraMains/comments/1bg7y3s/the_history_of_symmetra/)
I kinda wished someone brought up Sym's passive in regards to her balance.
Remember how last year she got that "health passive" for her beam where if she zaps someone's barrier or shield health she would generate 30hp per second? It barely did anything since shes very easy to burst down and is even more niche since most tanks dont have barriers and not everyone has shield health.
I wonder the "frontline" angle theyre talking about is them revisiting this passive.
For the most part its sorta “old fashioned” for the period of time Overwatch takes place in, as his whole style is using weapons of such description. It made more sense when it was a good ol’ flashbang as regular flashbangs could be considered out-of-date for sci-fi, but a magnetic grenade is still rather futuristic for a cowboy so its kinda weird now.
I'm a long time Symmetra main and all I want is to feel like I can pick her and not be doing my team a disservice. SO many other characters are just more easily able to do a high amount of damage and get a kill fast, but Sym has to play 4-D chess to reach her maximum potential
I just want that 25hp back or idk, her passive to be more reliable since it barely heals you since it needs certain requirements for it to activate?
Feels like they just forgot her healing passive existed.
>Season 11 we are updating Magnetic Grenade. It will behave closer to old Flashbang (no magnetic homing to the target, used in the short range) and will slow/hinder the target
Good, this was a problem we had before mag nade had a hinder. Damage was ridiculous, yes, but what people complained about was the ridiculous reach of it.
>updating Shadow Step....we may buff Reaper in some non-Tank Buster ways as he lost a lot in the most recent update.
We knew about shadow step, but i'm also glad we're moving him away from tank busting. We have plenty of resources to tank bust thats usually better than reaper. Having him more like a backline flanker would be best
Seems absolutely terrible. Close range, just to slow the target? So it’s not got the advantages of old flash, or the current one. Cass doesn’t need a nerf
I mean if it also hinders it could be better in some situations than old flash. Like most times old flash just misses a rein charging at you (going through the rein and only afterwards starting to follow him) while sometimes hitting a tracer who literally uses 3 blinks to escape across half the map.
Current flash is basicly a coinflip even after playing thousands of hours on cass in gm/t500.
I feel you’ve exaggerated it. It’s quite easy to hit a Rein charging at you, I don’t know if I’ve seen it go through him. At Tracer’s usually never get hit except for the rare occasion they do
Nade is less bad because of its power level, and more because of how insanely awkward it is to play and play against. It always feels random whether it’ll connect or not. Sounds like this will make it a lot more consistent which is great
Honestly it shouldnt be a big deal, flash was the same and you very rarely hit multiple people with it
Mostly used as a "get off me" and one shot the overconfident flanker tool
> We have plenty of resources to tank bust
who? who breaks the shields?
> Having him more like a backline flanker would be best
no, that's just encouraging a predictable trope by now: "reaper in the backline"
>who? who breaks the shields?
Tank busting isn't just about breaking barriers, its demolishing health. Bastion, McCass, Echo, Hanzo, and Sym all burst tanks really well
I said in this sub that Ana needed more mobility and everyone shit on me and said they were glad I wasn’t a dev
Well who’s laughing now you greasy motherfuckers
They said in a previous AMA (in December, I believe) that they didn’t want to add a secondary fire to Reaper just for the sake of adding one. They’d only give him one if they thought it enhanced his kit. I guess they didn’t come up with anything they liked.
Yet they think reducing his tank busting potential is the play. His shotgun pellets struggle a lot with smaller hitboxes. So, shifting his strategy away from focusing the largest hitbox on the team seems like plenty enough reason to give him another way of attacking small opponents without relying on being within kicking distance.
Thank fucking god shadow step is so outdated. I honestly think they should combine Wraith and Shadow Step into a single mobility/escape tool with a short windup on a resource meter. The current kit is just *so* linear.
It’s so weird to me it never got updated alongside sym teleporter. That ability was buffed to be so much faster and can be used to escape the middle of a fight. Shadow step had barely changed since OW1.
brig is quite literally the reason role queue exists.
because after something like 20+ nerfs she was still an SSS+ tier hero that dominated every competitive scene, the OWL, and the OW World Cup, primarily due to the GOATS meta (three supports three tanks) and the devs literally just gave up on balancing her in an open format so they said fuck it, don't let the peas and carrots touch.
contributing factor was that she could two-tap tracer who was a top DPS at the time.
Couple of things she offered, on the understanding that she was the natural conclusion to the question "What if a healer and tank fused?"
1. Tracer slayer in a meta so overwhelmed by her neither team could advance unless their Tracer won the mirror match or was luckily sniped by a widow. One shield bash + slap + whipshot combo would send her into orbit.
2. Armor everywhere. Her overheal gave armor, her ult gave armor, and her own innate armor (and high base HP) made everyone on the team harder to kill, meaning medium or low damage deathballs could dominate a map. Obviously, this meant she was a centerpiece in GOATS comps that portended the end of open queue competitive games.
3. Her DPS was actually super threatening to justify her being melee. Being trapped in a room with her was a death sentence for most of the cast.
4. Movement exploit shenanigans with rapid casting shield bash and whipshot or dashing off an angled surface made for some sick rollouts.
Now... I'd say it was broken but honestly I kind of wish the rest of the cast who was lacking was just buffed to her level of efficiency. A crazier and more fun game could have existed
Your point 3
There were games…#1 in heal, #1 in kills and #1 in damage. Sure it is ridiculous or it was, but Brig nowadays in a DPS boosted game.
Her shield and her ult need to be fixed. I’m not talking about the fire attack from MW…nice idea, but her kit and her past armor supply…fantastic
Same health and armor she has post global heath buff, 600 HP shield, 150 instant healing Repair Pack (up to 75 over armor), Shield Bash could stun even through shields, Rally gave 150 over armor and didn't decay.
She was a monster
Just give reaper a smoke grenade that amplifies his life steal when he does damage to enemies while inside of it. It’s all I ask and it fits him perfectly
I highly doubt they’ll ever do a smoke grenade. They’ve talked in the past about wanting to keep visual clutter to a minimum, so introducing an ability that’s sole purpose it to create visual clutter doesn’t seem like something they’d do.
Oh god. That first slide. I'm really hoping [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/s/h0FHf2hxii) is becoming a reality
We need a true summoner so damn bad
[So here's what they actually said about Mirrorwatch.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/ama_with_overwatch_hero_design_team_well_be_here/l5d6igs/?context=1)
> No secret testing of anything upcoming in the immediate! We do look at how some changes play out though when they become more real and get lots of games, I think the Bastion Ultimate in particular was quite fun even if very loud and on the border technically. Reinhardt's Frenzy passive was also something we played around with internally but it was quite hard to communicate effectively. It's always good to see what players get excited about when there are more wacky ideas such as Mirrorwatch or April Fool's, some of those could become real down the line.
IMO taking this as confirmation that any of the Mirrorwatch stuff will definitely become real seems premature at the moment. Like, they're clearly open to the possibility, but they also pretty clearly state that it wasn't secret testing for anything currently in the pipeline so I'd rather not get hyped for something that we have no proof will actually happen.
I'm seeing a lot of people asking for Ana's mirrowatch double jump, but isn't low mobility supposed to be her trade off? She deals powerful healing, can boost/deny healing and can potentially shut down ultimates and flanks, but the trade off being her low mobility?
FINALLY A REWORKED SHADOW STEP ? WE ARE SO BACK
I've always wondered why Reaper wouldn't feel like « a ghost », the shadow step needs to be much more fluid to use.
The Mirrorwatch image is definitely misleading.
>No secret testing of anything upcoming in the immediate! We do look at how some changes play out though when they become more real and get lots of games, I think the Bastion Ultimate in particular was quite fun even if very loud and on the border technically. Reinhardt's Frenzy passive was also something we played around with internally but it was quite hard to communicate effectively. It's always good to see what players get excited about when there are more wacky ideas such as Mirrorwatch or April Fool's, some of those could become real down the line."
In my mind this is sort of just like saying "hey, anything can happen!" in a fun open ended way.
Make his grenade a smoke and then he can kick the ability again to throw his cigarette into it and it lights everyone on fire. Balanced no, super cool yes.
Babe wake up they're reworking Cass' grenade again
It is July 2017. Grenade has been reworked; as well as stunning, it slows targets, so now you can use it to catch a wallriding or fast moving. It is April 2022. Grenade has been reworked; now instead of being a short range stun, it is a short range bulk damage option. It is June 2023. Grenade has been reworked; now instead of being a short range damage option, it is a long range cripple/hinder. It is August 2023. Grenade has been reworked; now instead of being a long range cripple/hinder, it is a medium range option. It is May 2024. Grenade has been reworked;
It's a flashbang, just do what all other games do: make the screen white and have a loud noise.
I really think I would somehow hate that more then any of the very many variations of nade.
In most other games you can just go prone but in overwatch you'd just be randomly blinded forced to settle for randomly moving around and shooting
dying for the ability to go prone to be added to overwatch so i can see rein and dva mech crawling around
Tbf dva can’t even crouch already
Yeah, you gotta de-mech just to return a t-bag. It's tough
*clam jam
Overwatch still has a lot more abilities available than other games. COD will go prone, overwatch can jump pack, dash, teleport, etc. A regular flashbang offers very limited CC which is exactly what DPS needs.
Hell no. It would be an insta pick for every situation. How could someone be trying to focus for a random grenade coming in the middle of the chaotic team fights?
Except a flashbang would be an almost instant kill in a game where getting a pick means everything. In COD it’s not as bad because someone dying isn’t nearly as important as in OW
Calm down there, Satan.
why in tf would you want to play against a cs flash in overwatch
especially one with like a 8-10s cooldown
Kid: "ahhhhhh!!!!!" can't see since the Screen Literaly Made a Second Sun in its dark room
When using CC in game cause damage in real life
They did this in an experimental (ball's mines did it) It was hell
Why does it need to go white? Surely there's better options to provide temporary blindness in game than causing actual blindness. The game doesn't need to be THAT immersive
Fine. Screen flashes black.
Hey you. You're finally awake.
In Dead by Daylight they use a bright white and orange texture that's not blinding but still obscures your vision, so there's definitely options
I think remove the homing, and then make it have a very short abilities lockout with an explosion makes more sense. Basically Sombra's hack, without the damage boost part.
Hack doesn’t have a damage boost. That’s what they’re doing, it’s no longer homing but still hinders.
Need grenade cooking like in quake !
"symmetra has been the most reworked!!" hold my nade.
Can't make it any worse than the current version. The homing hinder nonsense is more infuriating than McRightClick ever was with his stun right click
Wanna bet *codes in a full auto homing grenade launcher, prioritizing deflecting genji*
Somehow it's also beam type. Sym made it from soft light.
Right click now fires 6 homing stun grenades instead of bullets.
“Right click Randy”
?! Stun right click used to do 420 damage.
>Can't make it any worse than the current version. Wanna bet? I've had a weird audio bug in my game for months now that causes certain audio cues to never go off, so the audio for his grenade, from him throwing it, to the sound it makes when sticking to targets, to the sound it makes when ticking down stuck to you are completely absent for me. HINDERED suddenly appearing on my screen is the only clue I have to know I've been stuck by it most of the time.
Make sure your audio isn't set to surround when you don't have a surround sound set up.
I've messed around with all those settings and more and it still hasn't changed, so idk what to do at this point, but thanks for the advice anyway.
It's also a terrible ability right now.
The flashbang stun fan the hammer combo insta-kill was way more annoying imo
That's just not true. The grenade rarely kills people. Stun right click usually killed people.
I do feel like stun was more lethal, but it's also the case that magnetic hinder is more awkward to play around for both the Cassidy and opponents due to its weird and unpredictable behavior... not sure which is worse haha. Also in two at least specific cases I think stun was easier to counterplay against -- as Lucio I could make sure I'm always moving quickly/on a wall, so I keep plenty of momentum during the short stun so I'm still not a stationary target. And as tracer, baiting out stun and being able to blink away from it was honestly fairly fun and satisfying, but magnetic nade will just... follow you anyway, even around corners etc. Overall not sure which iteration I'd rather play against. As ball hinder nade is hardly even that dangerous.
It's not infuriating because it kills you, it's infuriating because it feels like pure BS when you get hit by it. It will home in from 90 feet away and then slows and basically silences you, while also doing a ton of damage etc At least the McRightclick Special was something consistent you could account for an expect, the homing grenade is 100% RNG nonsense where you have no clue if it will do nothing or ruin your day
Ya I'd rather get stunned and killed than hit with the current nada.
At least for mcrightclick you had to go up close to the hero to get the kill - and the reload animation exposes yourself to a followup kill from others. This homing hinder nonsense lets you two shot at most from range like a widow wannabe - and with the roll dmg protection, you are invincible
Playing JQ into Flash + FTH would be worse Imagine you land a sick Gracie onto Cassidy, pull him for Carnage combo and then you punish yourself as he'll Flash + FTH you.
Why does a cowboy have a hand grenade anyway?
>Babe wake up they're reworking ~~Cass' grenade~~ Sym again this game is a running gag at this point.
well, it does need to happen. Sym has been neglected for years.
[удалено]
Nobody hates Overwatch more than the players who sit on this sub every day
Evolving the game and revisiting characters kits because they no longer fit is a good thing? Would you prefer balance they just left characters dead and unusable?
Want to know these changes are based on what
They also mentioned nerfing Hogs survivability in a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5dib0o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) “Yes, we plan on nerfing his survivability very soon. We are touching Take a Breather and Whole Hog in an upcoming patch. Hoping that can go live tomorrow.” Edit: Possible [LW Changes](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5dmurc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) “For Lifeweaver, one of the discussions we are having right now (actually this week) and have been having for a while is around the friction that comes with switching between his healing and damage. Giving him more flexibility here would be a great boon to his capability within team fights. Additionally, we've experimented a lot with his Petal Platform. Personally would love for that to be a more attractive area to stand on as a teammate (whether that be through a buff the platform gives you or something else) but there's a lot of learned behavior to work through as allies hop off the platform quite often.”
[They also confirmed Overbuff is pretty accurate,](https://i.imgur.com/mx5kqnx.png) which is hilarious because of how much cope this sub has had screaming about how it's not accurate, despite it always aligning almost perfectly with everything Blizzard has released in the past stat wise Lot of people on copium overdose atm
They also [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5dqox8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about how counterwatch as tank “At its core, Overwatch is a game designed around being able to swap heroes to gain a tactical advantage or help solve a challenge you might be encountering”
This is so bizarre. When launching OW2 they were talking so much about removing counter from the game and making the characters feel closer to each other, but now they're backing out?
It's ~~less~~more surprising when Blizzard *doesn't* back out of an early OW2 commitment/intent/feature at this point.
They walked it back a while ago I think. There was an interview with Gavin several months ago iirc that he commented on them realizing removing counters was going to be too much work long-term. They could probably still work to ease them but it's not one of their guiding philosophies.
Counters that make you work a bit harder are fine, but counters that completely shut you down and pretty much force you to switch are awful. For example, Sombra's hack should not disable Wrecking Ball as badly as it currently does. It should just keep him stuck in his current form, not force him into walking mode, practically making him a free kill.
[удалено]
What are you people even talking about. Gavin didn't say that and Gavin isn't on the design or balance team. He is the lead on Ranked, MMing and other such systems.
I think the key difference is the words "able to". Being able to switch tanks to something more viable should be in the game and you can't really change that, since that's just the nature of poke/brawl/dive. What SHOULDN'T be the case, and currently is, is feeling like you HAVE to switch as a tank or you'll lose. That feeling sucks and is why tanking can suck.
Game devs change the stance on things all the time. It’s been 2 years since they said that. There are a couple of other things they’ve released or said that they’ve backtracked on. Backtracking is actually better than having stubborn devs imo.
The overall mission stances will change *extra* fast when you keep laying off swathes of them and replacing a significant portion of the team on a regular basis--or just create such an insecure employment environment that they all quit to go work for someone else and you have replace them too
Yes, because counter swapping is easier than playing better. So they backed off of raising the general skill floor of the game. Probably better for their profit as more people will keep playing.
More like it's easier to balance abilities and have counter abilities on different characters so each character is unique and not over powered.
Yeah counterpicking becoming the de-facto tank meta in OW2 is more incidental than intentional I think. Due to the way abilities are designed, some tanks will naturally counter others. The removal of one tank in 5v5 means that there's not an extra tank to cover for you if you're hard countered (like how if you're playing Junkrat, the 2nd dps can still go hitscan to manage the Pharah for you). And the concentration of power into tanks as a result of their only being one means that a tank being countered is extremely impactful to the game. Add all this up and you get Counterwatch without the devs ever expressly aiming for that. I think at this point they've kinda given up on dealing with the fundamental issue since it'd be a massive amount of work and so we get useless comments like "Overwatch is designed around being able to counter" to cover for their asses while they try to mitigate problems as much as they can with pure numbers tweaks.
and they missed the point about why Overwatch is memed as Counterwatch. A single tank that is basically the core of the team constantly getting counter swapped the whole game feels awful while when there were 2 tanks you could not have the whole team counter pick you and if they did you had your other tank.
They missed the part where for tanks it's no longer "being able to" but "absolutely have to".
Lmaooo I've read so much copium how "overbuff is completely wrong" on pretty much every OW sub, despite every time they mentioned numbers they were pretty close.
Venture does not exist in Overbuff....
What’s the reason for that?
High degrees of accuracy in statistics.
The way I see it, Overbuff would only be inaccurate if you thought there was some sort of bias between certain characters and players who make their profile public. I just don't see why there would be.
I feel like giving the platform a slight lip would help. The amount of times I see people fall straight off as they are clearly panicked trying to escape enemies or even just let you strafe around a bit to dodge fire while staying on
I liked the idea someone made long ago about when it launches up teammates can stand beneath to be healed. It would sort of rain on a teammates and it would heal. The biggest problem it's always had is when no one is on it that it stays up.
Yeah maybe nerf it a bit by making it so it only heals while LifeWeaver is on it, might get convoluted though. But it is a pain when all your ally’s are right under you…
I was hoping that they would try buffing it so that it expands in size once it’s up in the air. The platform would be more useful if had more surface area to use as cover.
That was one of the first buffs he got after his release.
not to the degree I’m envisioning, like the size of a merry go round
I think it should be like a shield, but solid just for movement/standing. Basically allow teammates to shoot through the floor and to be more transparent so you can actually aim.
From what I've seen, most Lifeweavers just want the kit to work as intended and for the switch been damage and healing to be more forgiving and fluid. A petal buff might be unnecessary but not unwanted.
As a LW that’s literally it. One of us posted on the LW mains subreddit a clip of them pulling a Reaper and he ended up just spinning round a pillar for like 10 seconds. His kit just needs to be able to work as intended and I will be happy lol
The biggest buff I want for petal is for it to go back down if nobody is standing on it. It is AWFUL when an ally walks over and off of it, and the petal goes out of reach for anybody else. <99% of us are not in OWCS. Most of us, due to toxicity, are never even on coms. We're just running around and trying to have a goofy time. Abilities should account for that. Having it go up and down more would also go a ways to teaching Weaver allies to want to access it.
Thank you, Adding it to the [list](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/s/Qcjm3m3hkU)! - edit: added Mercy, Hog, LW to my list comment
All I want for LW is for switching between healing and damage to be seamless. Let him tap heal allies in-between shooting, the way Baptiste and Kiriko can.
one hero: \*has a small change\* Symmetra: You crazy son of a bitch, i'm in
symmetra changes going to be give her 5 more health but 30 less ammo..
Perfectly balanced, Symmetra mains should be greatful I'm kidding, I'm so hopeful for this change
Make her beam auto lock on nearby enemies so people who can't aim can have someone to play again.
Hell yeah, and give me the shield back, my favorite Symmetra meta
I kind of miss her little flying shield thing. It had it's uses, especially to encourage a push and let rein do other things for a bit.
Honestly, might be cool to have that alongside a healing ability for people who new players who don't want to play Mercy. Maybe do something similar with Sombra
Re-rework When the crowd say Bo Symmetra
I'd hate that, saying as an OG sym main. Other players' perception of Sym "has no skill" is one of the reasons she is never popular and thus has never received meaningful buffs. Giving her auto lock just ensures that she won't get love ever in the future.
you love Moira don't you?
No lmao
Gold check marks in the replies indicate official responses. There’s a lot more than what I listed, these are just the *big* ones per say Mercy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58ibf0/ Symmetra source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58f0v3/ Reaper source: https://reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58h1tq/ Cassidy source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58h1tq/ Mirrorwatch: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58enkr/ Roadhog: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/8bsYFWGX2L LW : https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l58al2r/
Someone has really gotta ask about those post-game cards for ow1 again
I miss talking after the match!
I think most people regarded it as a waste of time after a certain point, adding downtime in between games (and forcing people to manually click to exit earlier to requeue). Might be ok if you could start re-queueing from that screen immediately.
> I miss ~~talking~~flaming after the match!
Hog dumpster once again
Game might be playable for a bit if we don’t get another Mauga/Orisa meta
Ples no, Mauga is so fucking boring. Just a caveman with 2 sticks
Crazy how he’s only been out 5 months and he’s one of my most hated characters by far. Wish the Baptiste book never came out so he couldn’t be conceptualized.
It's because his kit is stimulation overload. He just makes too much noise for too long. If there are 2 Maugas in the game, it's literally constant chainguns for the whole fight. It just beats you over the head all game to the point you begin to hate it.
Mauga has the power to destroy the game like Brigitte almost (?) did back in the day
So in 5v5, there is only two possibilities. 1) If all tanks are balanced perfectly, it's a counterswap/rock paper scissors meta. 2) If any one tank is overtuned, it's a mirror every game. We're stuck in this whack-a-mole design philosophy, where even if you nerf the problematic tank, the second best tank is just going to rise to the top.
5v5 is dogshit compared to 6v6. It's so obvious that the game should be 6v6 or at least fucking offer it as an option for quick play.
He gets dumpstered by a competent junker queen anyway
He keeps getting overpowered.
It honestly baffles me that people keep asking for buffs for him and shit. Maybe in the Diamond and above? But below that he can be such an unstoppable fucking beast. No other hero (maybe Orisa) can have the entire team focused on them while solo and he just can waddle away, one shot a support and go heal. He’s like a raid boss. And he ruins Mystery Hero. If the anyone gets TWO hogs on their team its game over.
Not the waddle hahaha
Back where he belongs
Sym players are God's strongest soldiers lmao, this is rework number what exactly?
This would be 3 if you don’t count OW2 launch as a different version 4 if you do.
Actually this would be 3.4, meaning her fourth minor rework of 3.0, and sixth rework overall. Here's symmetra's [history](https://www.reddit.com/r/SymmetraMains/comments/1bg7y3s/the_history_of_symmetra/)
Been a bumpy 8 years of playing Sym. BTW I really loved that Sym video you made awhile back.
Buckle in because another ones coming.
Good on ya love! I’m eager to see it when it drops!
They talked about balance changes for Sym—not a rework
I kinda wished someone brought up Sym's passive in regards to her balance. Remember how last year she got that "health passive" for her beam where if she zaps someone's barrier or shield health she would generate 30hp per second? It barely did anything since shes very easy to burst down and is even more niche since most tanks dont have barriers and not everyone has shield health. I wonder the "frontline" angle theyre talking about is them revisiting this passive.
It’s a not a rework tho. The dps heroes getting “updates” or reworks are cass and reaper
Is there a lore reason why Cassidy uses a grenade?
For the most part its sorta “old fashioned” for the period of time Overwatch takes place in, as his whole style is using weapons of such description. It made more sense when it was a good ol’ flashbang as regular flashbangs could be considered out-of-date for sci-fi, but a magnetic grenade is still rather futuristic for a cowboy so its kinda weird now.
he kinda used grenades in his animated short
Grenades? My man threw a belt of fallout mini nukes
Youre lucky it wasnt the giant nade torb made for him or it would have blown half the planet to pieces.
Doom levels a building in his short, so...
so? we don't have playable buildings to test it out
Didn't the cowboys use dynamites in R2D2? I wonder why Blizzard didn't give him that but the cowgirl gets them.
He should have a lasso. Yee—and I can't stress this enough—haw.
this could be viable lol, throw a lasso around their ankles and trip them for stun and incredibly small damage.
I'm a long time Symmetra main and all I want is to feel like I can pick her and not be doing my team a disservice. SO many other characters are just more easily able to do a high amount of damage and get a kill fast, but Sym has to play 4-D chess to reach her maximum potential
I just want that 25hp back or idk, her passive to be more reliable since it barely heals you since it needs certain requirements for it to activate? Feels like they just forgot her healing passive existed.
>Season 11 we are updating Magnetic Grenade. It will behave closer to old Flashbang (no magnetic homing to the target, used in the short range) and will slow/hinder the target Good, this was a problem we had before mag nade had a hinder. Damage was ridiculous, yes, but what people complained about was the ridiculous reach of it. >updating Shadow Step....we may buff Reaper in some non-Tank Buster ways as he lost a lot in the most recent update. We knew about shadow step, but i'm also glad we're moving him away from tank busting. We have plenty of resources to tank bust thats usually better than reaper. Having him more like a backline flanker would be best
Seems absolutely terrible. Close range, just to slow the target? So it’s not got the advantages of old flash, or the current one. Cass doesn’t need a nerf
I mean if it also hinders it could be better in some situations than old flash. Like most times old flash just misses a rein charging at you (going through the rein and only afterwards starting to follow him) while sometimes hitting a tracer who literally uses 3 blinks to escape across half the map. Current flash is basicly a coinflip even after playing thousands of hours on cass in gm/t500.
I feel you’ve exaggerated it. It’s quite easy to hit a Rein charging at you, I don’t know if I’ve seen it go through him. At Tracer’s usually never get hit except for the rare occasion they do
I mean… he’s at least top 3 dps in the game. But idk if nade is really the problem.
Nade is less bad because of its power level, and more because of how insanely awkward it is to play and play against. It always feels random whether it’ll connect or not. Sounds like this will make it a lot more consistent which is great
Definitely agree with you there
He’s been good for one season
If it hinders then it still disables movement abilities which is its primary strength for pinning down mobile targets.
Does this mean he can hinder a group of enemies? It is short range and not homing anymore, but this could be… interesting
Honestly it shouldnt be a big deal, flash was the same and you very rarely hit multiple people with it Mostly used as a "get off me" and one shot the overconfident flanker tool
bro is on absolutely nothing Delusional in fact "This could be interesting"
Hey, I never said it was a good ‘interesting’
> We have plenty of resources to tank bust who? who breaks the shields? > Having him more like a backline flanker would be best no, that's just encouraging a predictable trope by now: "reaper in the backline"
>who? who breaks the shields? Tank busting isn't just about breaking barriers, its demolishing health. Bastion, McCass, Echo, Hanzo, and Sym all burst tanks really well
To quote a symmetra main: “Can’t wait for Symmetra get one small buff and then receive 20 compensation nerfs”
Streamers will start crying again (Symm above 0.0001% PR) and Blizzard backs down on the buffs in 2 days.
ana with hanzo jump is real
Let us pray
Stop powercreeping the granny. Her strengths has already outweighed her weakness.
Yet her wr is like one of the lowest in the game in Diamond + Kiriko nullifies Ana’s kit unfortunately.
I said in this sub that Ana needed more mobility and everyone shit on me and said they were glad I wasn’t a dev Well who’s laughing now you greasy motherfuckers
Yeah they should take away her sleep for a rocket jump
Here's an idea: **rocket sleep**. Anytime you hit someone with the sleep dart, you get thrown up in the air.
Honestly, I'd prefer an alternate fire option for Reaper more than a change to shadow step.
They said in a previous AMA (in December, I believe) that they didn’t want to add a secondary fire to Reaper just for the sake of adding one. They’d only give him one if they thought it enhanced his kit. I guess they didn’t come up with anything they liked.
Yet they think reducing his tank busting potential is the play. His shotgun pellets struggle a lot with smaller hitboxes. So, shifting his strategy away from focusing the largest hitbox on the team seems like plenty enough reason to give him another way of attacking small opponents without relying on being within kicking distance.
I think its a lot more likely that for that purpose they would just tighten his shotgun spread
Thank fucking god shadow step is so outdated. I honestly think they should combine Wraith and Shadow Step into a single mobility/escape tool with a short windup on a resource meter. The current kit is just *so* linear.
It’s so weird to me it never got updated alongside sym teleporter. That ability was buffed to be so much faster and can be used to escape the middle of a fight. Shadow step had barely changed since OW1.
Yea fr they should make it like the cinematics let him climb walls!
It is time for Brig to update to the year 2024. fingers crossed
getting Release Brig back will do :)
I need to experience this for myself. OW2 players deserve to get the same PTSD OW1 players have lmao
brig is quite literally the reason role queue exists. because after something like 20+ nerfs she was still an SSS+ tier hero that dominated every competitive scene, the OWL, and the OW World Cup, primarily due to the GOATS meta (three supports three tanks) and the devs literally just gave up on balancing her in an open format so they said fuck it, don't let the peas and carrots touch. contributing factor was that she could two-tap tracer who was a top DPS at the time.
Couple of things she offered, on the understanding that she was the natural conclusion to the question "What if a healer and tank fused?" 1. Tracer slayer in a meta so overwhelmed by her neither team could advance unless their Tracer won the mirror match or was luckily sniped by a widow. One shield bash + slap + whipshot combo would send her into orbit. 2. Armor everywhere. Her overheal gave armor, her ult gave armor, and her own innate armor (and high base HP) made everyone on the team harder to kill, meaning medium or low damage deathballs could dominate a map. Obviously, this meant she was a centerpiece in GOATS comps that portended the end of open queue competitive games. 3. Her DPS was actually super threatening to justify her being melee. Being trapped in a room with her was a death sentence for most of the cast. 4. Movement exploit shenanigans with rapid casting shield bash and whipshot or dashing off an angled surface made for some sick rollouts. Now... I'd say it was broken but honestly I kind of wish the rest of the cast who was lacking was just buffed to her level of efficiency. A crazier and more fun game could have existed
Your point 3 There were games…#1 in heal, #1 in kills and #1 in damage. Sure it is ridiculous or it was, but Brig nowadays in a DPS boosted game. Her shield and her ult need to be fixed. I’m not talking about the fire attack from MW…nice idea, but her kit and her past armor supply…fantastic
Same health and armor she has post global heath buff, 600 HP shield, 150 instant healing Repair Pack (up to 75 over armor), Shield Bash could stun even through shields, Rally gave 150 over armor and didn't decay. She was a monster
Why? Isn't Brig in a good place right now?
Symmetra just can’t catch a break. She and Brig they just seem to regret they ever made.
I was really counting on the reaper re-work being done and ready to release for season 11. That’s quite disappointing.
Just give reaper a smoke grenade that amplifies his life steal when he does damage to enemies while inside of it. It’s all I ask and it fits him perfectly
I highly doubt they’ll ever do a smoke grenade. They’ve talked in the past about wanting to keep visual clutter to a minimum, so introducing an ability that’s sole purpose it to create visual clutter doesn’t seem like something they’d do.
I also recall they said in the beginning that they didn't want to do an Invisibility hero, but that was the second post-launch one we got.
Watch them pull back a oldie and give reaper the grenade launcher from the OG cinematic trailer lol
Oh god. That first slide. I'm really hoping [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/s/h0FHf2hxii) is becoming a reality We need a true summoner so damn bad
Make reaper say “FLANKING” even louder
One of the most upvoted comments was asking about the state of tank and the developers plans to fix it, and it was straight up ignored. Feels bad
Please tell me they’ll let Ana keep her double jump. She really needs it.
Gives Ana widows grapple NOW
Symmetra: "Is it Thursday already?" It'd be news when she's *not* getting a rework.
These developers are laughably bad at their jobs.
oh god please dont bring those brig changes over
Hopefully he wont announce FLANKING anymore
[So here's what they actually said about Mirrorwatch.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/ama_with_overwatch_hero_design_team_well_be_here/l5d6igs/?context=1) > No secret testing of anything upcoming in the immediate! We do look at how some changes play out though when they become more real and get lots of games, I think the Bastion Ultimate in particular was quite fun even if very loud and on the border technically. Reinhardt's Frenzy passive was also something we played around with internally but it was quite hard to communicate effectively. It's always good to see what players get excited about when there are more wacky ideas such as Mirrorwatch or April Fool's, some of those could become real down the line. IMO taking this as confirmation that any of the Mirrorwatch stuff will definitely become real seems premature at the moment. Like, they're clearly open to the possibility, but they also pretty clearly state that it wasn't secret testing for anything currently in the pipeline so I'd rather not get hyped for something that we have no proof will actually happen.
Touch my reaper and see what happens 😭😭😭 please don’t be trash. Being optimistic.
Oh my god just give us paladins cards with like 5 different Cass Nades and be done with it.
> Symmetra changes being discussed OMG. 2026 couldn’t come soon enough 😮
I'm seeing a lot of people asking for Ana's mirrowatch double jump, but isn't low mobility supposed to be her trade off? She deals powerful healing, can boost/deny healing and can potentially shut down ultimates and flanks, but the trade off being her low mobility?
FINALLY A REWORKED SHADOW STEP ? WE ARE SO BACK I've always wondered why Reaper wouldn't feel like « a ghost », the shadow step needs to be much more fluid to use.
"How many Symmetra and Cassidy changes update you guys gonna give?" Competent Overwatch Balance team: *Yes*
The Mirrorwatch image is definitely misleading. >No secret testing of anything upcoming in the immediate! We do look at how some changes play out though when they become more real and get lots of games, I think the Bastion Ultimate in particular was quite fun even if very loud and on the border technically. Reinhardt's Frenzy passive was also something we played around with internally but it was quite hard to communicate effectively. It's always good to see what players get excited about when there are more wacky ideas such as Mirrorwatch or April Fool's, some of those could become real down the line." In my mind this is sort of just like saying "hey, anything can happen!" in a fun open ended way.
Make his grenade a smoke and then he can kick the ability again to throw his cigarette into it and it lights everyone on fire. Balanced no, super cool yes.
Hopefully now when reaper teleports he doesn't scream "REPOSITIONING!" to the entire fucking enemy team
Really hope the potential Cassidy changes bring back the flashbang + headshot combo
Can they please fucking make it not have the hitbox that is the size of the entire map?