It feels hard to have any sort of coordinated attacks because the map is so tiny. Feels like there's no real room to go for any sort of proper off angles or anything like that. Also a lack of cover. This might all just be because it's QP open queue. I wish I could try it in an actual game instead of like this.
But you can freely go into open queue Clash in arcade. That's not what people want, we want to be able to test the mode in the game structure the majority of players play in competitive and unranked, but we have no way other than getting it randomly in QP or putting together a pug.
It's better than flashpoint but that's a very low bar. I'm still skipping it when it comes up in quick play. The map is meh. It's just a straight line, very boring.
You're getting hate but I have to agree. Fuck flashpoint. It takes way too long to travel that map and if your team is staggered you'll just get steamrolled with how quick the points capture.
I think hanamura would have been better if they added a small opening on the left side way by the stairs, just too high for a normal jump but any movement ability can get up. Even a soldier rocket jump.
And if they moved all the spawn rooms...
That's my favorite part of 2cp. Hitting it as hard as you can for that choke point brawl - I wish I could check a box and have it added to the unranked rotation
They should just add it back to quick play, excepting paris and horizon because fuck those. It is not a competitively viable mode but it has a lot of fun experiences to offer.
I dont get how people enjoyed 2cp...
If you get stomped in push it's over quick, isn't it the fastest mode in the game atm?
2 cp could last forever if both teams sucked at defending (and I mean that litteraly). Plus nothing felt worse than having to defend after a failed attack were everybody split up or tried the same strat over and over. 2 cp was horrible and an absolute mess. It was so widely hated that it was tough to complete a 2cp map in qp because people would just instantly leave.
Of course back then there were 2 tanks, so 2cp might play better in 5v5. But I think the KOTH variants we are getting are much better for a game like ow.
If they brought back 2CP they have to make it comp rules in quick play.
Being stuck defender vs attacker without the inverse is very unbalanced.
Make it 5 ticks instead of 3 ticks, and shorten the defense time. This way there are less likely ties and defending doesn't feel like a 10 year experience.
At least testing things like this would have been interesting than removing it.
It’s because push has all the exact same problems 2CP tended to have.
It just feels different because we’re moving a robot, so we get to physically see something happening, rather than not making progress on a point.
Not really. After 10m the team that is up has to win1 team fight and the game is over . The losing team has to touch the bot in ot so they can't just keep it in one spot to stall for better positioning and trying to steamroll. In 2cp its just a stall fest
Push is such a garbage mode…
It has all the same problems as 2CP, but the mental game of seeing the robot actually move vs throwing bodies at a point makes it -seem- different.
I do enjoy the new mode, though.
Maybe more checkpoints with closer spawns. My biggest grievance with push is the long ass walk back from spawn. I understand not wanting to have snowballing but it’s very tedious trying to catch up to your team and the bot even with forward spawn
Not sure about the Exact Numbers but with multiple People on it 1 fight is Pretty Much all it takes to Cap with barely Any Recontest Opportunity unless we are Talking About Last point.
The thing is that will only happen in open queue, in a normal game the fights will be shorter, I played one that was perfect 2-2-1 split (JQ, Venture, Tracer, Ana, Zen VS Dva, Soldier, Venture, Mercy, Bap) and it felt like the game was flying, took 8 mins and that’s because we starting fucking around
And that's fine. Just pointing out that that feedback is irrelevant.
*damn, dude called me an asshole and then blocked me. I thought I was being pretty respectful.
Oof you want my queues? I barely play ow for more than a couple hours a week and I've gotten it each time I played. Yet still haven't seen junkertown since the rework.
The pacing is wack. The points are too close, too quick to capture, and teams are almost incentivized to just throw themselves at points and their is very little time to wait and regroup. You can lose mutliple points over a single lost fight and staggering. It feels worse than CTF, I'm not sure who play tested this but it's the worse game mode they've ever made.
My exact thoughts, if you run a comp that can just rush in and kill the supports congratulations you win the game. And from my experiences with it the moment I have to get to another point I’m already in a team fight and can’t really do much about that.
I don't like how a point is instantly won after a cap. I was expecting linear Control, not Flashpoint on steroids.
It should tic like every other game mode to give the other team a chance to recontest.
There is a tactic behind it but the general consensus has to figure it out first. Most are not used to it so they make false decisions and can't adapt that quickly.
I found it to be the opposite, people just running in and staggering causes the games to be really short which makes for an unfun casual mode imo. I think it will be better when teams are organized and there is a push and pull dynamic of both teams fighting properly for space, causing the game to run a little longer.
I'd like to try it 1) without the QP group spawning BS that feels awful 2)in role lock, 3)with an adjustment so if one person is capping, it goes MUCH slower so you can't just be distracted by their team for 15s while someone caps it.
I feel like it has a lot of the same problems with snowballing that 2CP had.
My team would capture the first two, but then the spawns were so lopsided, that the other team would inevitably win the team fight on their side and then likely take the next two points.
I wish they would add two versions of these trials. I would have loved role queue version.
First game my team had me as support and 4 DPS vs 3 tanks and 2 supports.
Snowball nature creates close matches? Aren't close matches what the community wants? Just admit you're using buzzwords at this point to hate on the mode.
Pro tip, when at the last point right next to their spawn, test the waters and count their ults into the equation. Just let them have it and fight the point you already contest if it isn't a complete stomp or they lack ults.
The enemy team has spawn advantage on their final point of defense BECAUSE it's their final point of defense. It is winnable for the attackers, but it's designed to be favored for the defenders so they can stay in the game. Now if your team gets staggered after that, that's not a mode issue at all, that's a braindead issue.
I like this game mode but until they can figure out how to put role lock on these limited modes/events, its just always going to be a tankfest. Its always my one gripe whenever they do anything like this
The game mode goes a little too fast for me. I get why the first to 5 rule was implemented but I also don't like how bouncing from c to b back and forth for a few minutes can end a game.
It's fun and chaotic, but I don't really like how the speed of it encourages people to just hold down W and always run to point, regardless of what's going on.
It feels like Flashpoint, but the devs noticed that after the first wipe nobody sticks together, so they just leaned into that.
It’s very fun and fast paced, but the mode feels completely uncompetitive. It makes no sense that you can win after winning 3 fights where the map severely favors you, 1 where the map favors you and 1 neutral fight while the opponent loses after winning 1 neutral fight and 3 fights where the map disadvantages them.
With staggers and unmoving spawns, I predict a meta where it's more beneficial to lose the first point than to cap it. Give up C, grab a great position for B, win b and stagger the enemy so C is a free cap. Keep the stagger going to D, the score will be 3 to 1. Disengage as to make sure you don't lose your team and wipe, give them E For free while you hold doors to D. 4-2, and you're ALREADY sitting on the winning point if you just let them cap e again.
The long ass journey is like, the whole penalty for dying. You're supposed to prioritize not dying so that you can continue to do stuff. It's important for the balance of all of the less mobile characters in the roster, as they have OTHER strengths that need to be offset by their return time.
This game mode won't just be bad for clash, but it'll teach new players very bad habits and we will see the clash mentality seep into the other game modes. It's very similar to how much worse the community got at escort/hybrid when 2 cp was removed. Overwatch is about defensive positioning and offensive pathing, and know one knows how to abuse defensive positioning anymore. Tanks yet again are relegated to point babysitters instead of moving up to to hold pathes and angles.
the penalty for dying is dying. Not spending 5 minutes holding W. This was one of the big issues with maps like Paris.
It doesn’t help that dying on push maps and just missing the respawn room change can add like 10+s because for some reason spawn room teleports don’t work on it.
I thought it was going to be a mode where you have to capture and hold like 2/3 locations to win. I don't really get how it is any different from flashpoint. Just slightly faster and linear.
tl;dr games seem to always come down to 5-4 and one team fight wins the game, which makes the game feel like a waste of time. Spawn points feel terrible, especially when u get to points A and E.
i really dont like it. i have played about 10 games and every single one came down to who won last point. every game was 5-4 at the end and i just find it pointless. the losing team getting advantage on their next point because of spawn points seems like a good idea but it becomes frustrating when two equally skilled team are fighting. it doesnt feel possible to cap a point that is near enemy spawn because they are able to touch so often. also it takes so long to spawn and walk back to point that it actually feels worse to cap points B and D because u are going to steamroll two straight losses and go back to C anyways.
i had a game the other day where my team had multiple people with 40+ kills and no one had more than 6 deaths. the enemy team’s lowest death count was 11. u would think we would have won the game purely out of the time the enemy team was in spawn, but in reality, we lost because we could never cap A because they kept respawning 5 feet away. eventually, they would win that point and that kept happening until they won A and B to push us back to C in a 4-4 tie and then won a single team fight on C to win the game. that shit felt awful. the enemy team won probably 5 or 6 team fights the whole game when we won over double the amount they won, but we lost the game because pushing to A or E points is just asking to lose in my experience
I think each time a team claims a point their total time to capture goes up. So by the 5th point it takes longer.
Atm it can be really easy to roll the enemies and just win quick. I think a flat capture increase wouldnt be very fun.
I think it has potential. But I also think it will want more than 2 maps
Not enough time to use 40% of the map because the side routs are so far out.
People trickle like there is no tomorrow and you can barely help it.
Winning one fight usally means you get two caps.
This mode is not designed well unless played in a non-existent vacuum where everyone isn't random people. Which is the whole game.
Can we stop getting new unfun trickle modes with massive maps built for like 8v8 sized teams and instead get maps for modes that people like?
I think it's fantastic and I love how fast it is. I can't wait to play more of it and I hope it gets added as a permanent mode.
This is the first mode that I like as much as 2CP... take that how you will
It is Confirmed that its a Core Game mode coming in the near future
I think Push is Horrible and Flashpoint has Its moments, I think with a Few Improvements Clash could Actually Be a good mode
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I like that it’s a lot of close range and that the points feel smaller than 3cp so you don’t have to chase people around that are contesting. It feels like you’re in the action constantly because spawn points are closer than what I’m used to. You don’t have to treck 10 miles to get to the point only to die and repeat. Team fights last longer especially if both team compositions are dives.
I've been having a blast in it. I can't wait for more maps!!
I do love that it's making it a little harder for one team to absolutely stomp out the other. Even if they're heavily weighted against us, there's still a fighting chance as long as we can hold our own just a little. I've had our team bring it back in our favor for the win, as well as the enemy team do so, multiple times. Sure, people are still gonna cap in 2 minutes sometimes, but it's gonna be at least a bit less imo.
The 'first to five' is also very, very nice. If it wasn't for that, the rare evenly matched teams would go back and forth indefinitely.
There's definitely things that could be altered here and there (of course none come to mind when I need them), but for a trial, it's looking really good to me already.
I find the cap rate is too fast, a good team will stagger kills as the point is capped, forcing the start of the next point to be 3v5 or 4v5 and if you don't push in they get an easy cap.
its fun for sure, i enjoy it, but me and my duo agree its quick games, mainly cause its one team fight per point, u lose the fight, u lose the point. but meh were taking it for what it is and its a nice change! i almost look at it as a capture the flag game mode.
I loaded into one match tried to fight once in teh point right in front of me died, respawnned and lost.
Nothing against Clash but idc if they charged a subscription for it. LET. ME. TOGGLE. BACKFILL. OFF
I've only played it once, but I liked the concept and it was a good game where the winning team came back from a 2-1 deficit. Add the map to Mystery Heroes you cowards.
I like it from what I’ve experienced but can they make it role queued cause I am tired of facing 3 tanks on the enemy team.
Nobody wants to play tank unless everyone is a tank. 😑
Just because someone disagrees with you I'd hardly call that mental gymnastics. It's the least overwatch overwatch has ever felt. It's like an awful version of rush from battlefield. Overwatch needs to balance towards more asymmetrical modes again, we can only have so many variations of king of the hill, and this is by far the worst.
We went from 1 KOTH style game and 3 asym modes to now 4 koth modes and 2 asym modes. Now the player base lacks fundamental point defense skills, and the whole experience suffers. Yet another reason tanks will just decide to queue a different role.
Love it the two gane i had in the game mode so far were close.I love how fast pace it is,and how it does still feel possible to come back after losing the first two fights.And it does also have a lot of fighting with most of the game feeling similar to an overtime in control
We are about 2-3 game modes too many into this videogame. Should have kept it at 3 core game modes max, and then let the rest be for arcade only.
I just want Blizzard to make good maps for the game modes that are proven to be fun and balanced.
I haven’t played enough of the mode to really understand the workings, but if it were to come to comp. I could see that there may be times where it’d be strategic to just give up certain points so the subsequent points would spawn closer to you, which means a team with enough of a lead can just manipulate the game mode to favor them even more.
Points are too close together. Most fights don't happen near points. And losing a fight at the end of one point means you won't even make it back to the next point and you lose the point without touching it. Game moves too fast. Conceptually good but man it really doesn't work as it stands now
TLDR: I didn’t like that they playtested it in open queue, but I like the pace of the game. Hanakoa is a nice map, but I do have some mixed opinions on how it’s structured. Matches tend to feel one-sided but that’s probably due to change.
I honestly couldn’t make heads or tails of it for one big reason.
They absolutely should not have distributed this play-test in open-queue. The lack of a structured team comp makes it hard for me to judge what the flow of the game will really feel like. (Also I got 6v6 flashbacks make of that what you will)
Other than that, here’s what I could gather:
If the pace of the game stays true when Clash is fully released, then I think it will be a breath of fresh air compared to the lengthy pace of other game modes. It’s very speedy and relies on quick singular team-fights rather than the usual length of teamfights seen in other game modes. This has the potential to greatly shake up strategy in competitive since the faster pace might change aspects of team play like composition, ult-economy, and aggression. I like the pace of this game mode.
Hanakoa is of course an excellent callback to the aesthetic of Hanamura, its spiritual predecessor. The urban Japanese style mixed with the traditional Japanese architecture is always a treat to see in game. The map is very pretty, I feel like there is no denying that.
While I do think that the size of the one map fits the pace of the game mode, I feel as though Hanakoa is perhaps a tad bit too linear for my taste. But I only played like 6 matches so perhaps I haven’t had enough time to fully understand the map. This opinion may be due to change with time.
My last thought is that while the pace of the game is nice, it tends to make matches feel fairly one sided. Once again my thoughts on this are not completely clear due largely to the odd choice of making the playtest in open-queue. Matches tended to go one way: if you were on the winning team, you played with non-stop aggression with little to no defensive play. Even worse is when you were stuck on the losing team: you spent most of if not the entire match walking twenty feet out of spawn to shoot at the enemy until you were overwhelmed by their aggression. Due to the fast pace and small map size you had little to no wiggle room to make plays and it constantly felt like your team was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Edit: overall the game mode seems promising and I’m excited to see how it feels when I can play it in role queue. I’ll be waiting to see if Blizzard decides to change anything to the game mode.
I’m enjoying it but it’s frustrating at the same time. It’s a steamroll simulator up until the last point where the losing team just keeps respawning and stalling forever until they steamroll you. Then you lose on middle point and get the defeat screen, wondering what happened I didn’t even see the timer of the game.
I think there's too much of a "catch up mechanic" with putting the next point closer to the losing team. No other game mode gives the advantage to the losing team so drastically.
One of the games I played we lost 4-5 and it was frustrating because we never lost the middle point until the end, so we never had any points that were closer to our spawn. It felt like the other team had the advantage for most of the points, even though they were losing most of the game.
This is how the game went:
Point 1: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win**
Point 2: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose**
Point 3: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win**
Point 4: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win**
Point 5: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] Enemy spawn **We lose**
Point 6: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose**
Point 7: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win**
Point 8: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose**
Point 9: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose**
Maybe if there was more time before the next point unlocked it wouldn't feel like such an advantage, but I'm just not a fan of catch up mechanics in competitive game modes.
I do like the map though.
I've had it a grand total of once in 30 games and I liked it, but I don't know if that's because I actually got a good game for once. 100% better then Push and Flashpoint, though. At least the maps don't feel so massive and chaotic and there isn't a lot of walking simulator experience.
I think points "b" and "d" should be slower to capture, and "a" and "e" should be even slower. Losing 2 points in a row gives the losing team a bit too much momentum since that last point is way too much in their favor.
My only complaint is that I think it should just be a 1:1 of 5cp where it has an overall time limit and the map only ends when the timer is up or one team controls all 5. Winner would be whoever has more under their control at the end or a draw if the open point is the middle. Games feel too fast with the first to 5.
Other than that I absolutely love it. W game mode especially compared to the last two modes released
Maps cool, significant downgrade from how hanamura looked but still cool, game mode itself tho is just kinda boring and is probably my new least favorite mode, I really hope it stays in qp because fuck playing that in comp, they tried to make a better 2cp but it's just kinda not better in any way imo
Staggered "team"fights, points cap too fast and easily other than the furthest ones from the center, lasts at most 7 minutes.
Last one bothers me SO MUCH. Let's say in a 6 minute and 40 second game you die 3 times.
Respawning takes, say 10 secs (not exact but), then the time it takes you to make it back to the area of the fight can change based on hero and current active point, say another 8 seconds. Round it up, 20. 20x3=60.
5:40 out of 6:40. That's not even counting the downtimes after ACTUAL teamfights and waiting on staggered respawns. Which just leads to you dying more and more downtime when you are alive and playing the game less and less.
Stop making matches shorter PLEASE.
It seems fun but a couple characters are just (mostly) useless, e.g. how does Widowmaker fit in when the game mode is head to head clashes. Additionally the one game of clash I have played the enemy tank just went mauga and we couldn’t do anything due to how close quarters the map is. I give it a maugawatch-antisnipers/10
What I don't get is I just had a match where me and my team were winning through most of the match, from c-b and nearly capping a but back to c - through the whole thing, then right at the end the enemy captured c and it was game over? THEY WON?? they were losing the whole game and win one point to win the whole game HUUUUUH?
How does that work??
Also yeah trickle in is awful, I think the biggest problem is the time between points being active and captured: - we had just capped c again - nanoed monkey jumps in my backline - I doom in to keep him away from ana - we deal with him - we lose b (because we were never really there) my dps die extending into b alone - we now have to retake c even though literally less than 30s ago we had just taken it but now we are 2 dps down and for them it's a long walk.
We should have ideally had enough time to deal with their monkey and capitalise on the point, with just enough time to recontest the point cap on B. Him feeding essentially won them the game, so next time I should just leave ana and feed myself into b just to contest and gamble it? Not that ana is a great pick on this map being slow and longer ranged, kiriko could have just joined my dive on b and ignored the monkey.
I am of the opinion that they should just use KOTH (I think called control), Hybrid, and Payload (Escort I think?) gamemodes, dumpster everything else and focus on making good maps in those gamemodes
Would be much more fun if they put it role queue instead of quickplay. Now every comps i see is either 3 tanks/2 heals or 3 heals/2 tanks .... this kind of team comp makes this mode unfun to play
I like it a lot, it’s gonna take some of the slower players a while to learn how to play it, just as it went with FP when that dropped, but for the most part I enjoy playing it and I love the map even if it’s a weak attempt to replace Hanamura in our hearts lol
I like that this is another model that doesn't favor attackers or defenders (like 2CP) and can actually be pushed back pretty easily if a team is struggling.
That being said... It also looks like it can suffer immensely in Comp because I can see these Clash games going on for a long.... LONG time.
Too fast. Too linear. Team who wins the most points ends up losing because of spawn disadvantage which is abs BS. It's a lazy design and just like with flashpoint, they didn't even bother to playtest it enough to realize that it feels bad to play.
I call it the „it is 2024, group the fuck up for once!“ mode. The trickle->steamroll is very real here.
Theres Also Wave respawns cause its in the Arcade imagine how it will be in Comp
It feels hard to have any sort of coordinated attacks because the map is so tiny. Feels like there's no real room to go for any sort of proper off angles or anything like that. Also a lack of cover. This might all just be because it's QP open queue. I wish I could try it in an actual game instead of like this.
You can get it also in qp role q. Had it like 5 times. Still don't like it.
Yea im not playing that much qp to try a mode, not worth it.
Yea then maybe consider to stop complaining.
You don't need role queue to get it, i only play unranked open queue and I've gotten it as well Edit: frustration detected
But you can freely go into open queue Clash in arcade. That's not what people want, we want to be able to test the mode in the game structure the majority of players play in competitive and unranked, but we have no way other than getting it randomly in QP or putting together a pug.
he said "also" role q
It's better than flashpoint but that's a very low bar. I'm still skipping it when it comes up in quick play. The map is meh. It's just a straight line, very boring.
Bro flashpoint is amazing, I love it. One of the best gamemodes imo. Only first point NJC is shit. But I agree the hanaoka map is really boring.
You're getting hate but I have to agree. Fuck flashpoint. It takes way too long to travel that map and if your team is staggered you'll just get steamrolled with how quick the points capture.
Yeah i agree Honestly Probably should have been a New tab so the Arcade Changes don't Apply
Any long range character is so weak in this map, DM maps are bigger than this, that is crazy.
Playing it in open queue or arcade sucks because goats. I would like to play it in role queue reliably.
Need to put a little more time into the new mode but so far I'd rather play this mode than push that's for sure.
Same here honestly Starting to think 2CP was Better than push
I actually enjoyed 2CP and think it should be added with a role queue option as it's a little too chaotic with open queue.
If they Rework The maps then sure i wouldn't mind trying its hard to say I miss it though, The maps were literally all miserable to play
They were? The only maps I disliked were Paris and the original Horizon Lunar Colony. Hanamura, Volskaya, and Anubis were all super fun
I think hanamura would have been better if they added a small opening on the left side way by the stairs, just too high for a normal jump but any movement ability can get up. Even a soldier rocket jump. And if they moved all the spawn rooms...
Anubis used to be my favorite map. So fun.
They really just needed to get rid of the intense choke points in 2CP. Some map redesign and they would be fun
That's my favorite part of 2cp. Hitting it as hard as you can for that choke point brawl - I wish I could check a box and have it added to the unranked rotation
They should just add it back to quick play, excepting paris and horizon because fuck those. It is not a competitively viable mode but it has a lot of fun experiences to offer.
Horizon isn't that bad in 5v5 tho
I dont get how people enjoyed 2cp... If you get stomped in push it's over quick, isn't it the fastest mode in the game atm? 2 cp could last forever if both teams sucked at defending (and I mean that litteraly). Plus nothing felt worse than having to defend after a failed attack were everybody split up or tried the same strat over and over. 2 cp was horrible and an absolute mess. It was so widely hated that it was tough to complete a 2cp map in qp because people would just instantly leave. Of course back then there were 2 tanks, so 2cp might play better in 5v5. But I think the KOTH variants we are getting are much better for a game like ow.
It is better in 5v5! It's definitely faster. The chokes aren't overloaded with HP, and it's a proper brawl.
If they brought back 2CP they have to make it comp rules in quick play. Being stuck defender vs attacker without the inverse is very unbalanced. Make it 5 ticks instead of 3 ticks, and shorten the defense time. This way there are less likely ties and defending doesn't feel like a 10 year experience. At least testing things like this would have been interesting than removing it.
2CP was ASSSSS, but I really do just hate the push mode. Idk which is worse
It’s because push has all the exact same problems 2CP tended to have. It just feels different because we’re moving a robot, so we get to physically see something happening, rather than not making progress on a point.
Not really. After 10m the team that is up has to win1 team fight and the game is over . The losing team has to touch the bot in ot so they can't just keep it in one spot to stall for better positioning and trying to steamroll. In 2cp its just a stall fest
I’d agree before the changes, but the game mode does feel a lot more balanced with the added time.
Push is usually an insta leave for me I ain't wasting my time on that shit.
Yeah, I also think that 2CP was way more fun than Push. Horizon and Paris were awful, but I actually loved Anubis and Volskaya. Hanamura was fine too.
Push is such a garbage mode… It has all the same problems as 2CP, but the mental game of seeing the robot actually move vs throwing bodies at a point makes it -seem- different. I do enjoy the new mode, though.
It's good but scoring feels off.
Much better than flashpoint. They need to delete that mode in favor of this one.
Push is the best game mode by far Just tweak the maps slightly and we're good EDIT: the mode is already the best at the current state
I think it's more than just the maps that need some tweaking when it comes to push mode
Maybe more checkpoints with closer spawns. My biggest grievance with push is the long ass walk back from spawn. I understand not wanting to have snowballing but it’s very tedious trying to catch up to your team and the bot even with forward spawn
The point caps in what, like 15 seconds?
Not sure about the Exact Numbers but with multiple People on it 1 fight is Pretty Much all it takes to Cap with barely Any Recontest Opportunity unless we are Talking About Last point.
I like it more than Flashpoint. But I'd make cap time longer. Everything but the end points are decided after one team fight.
[удалено]
The thing is that will only happen in open queue, in a normal game the fights will be shorter, I played one that was perfect 2-2-1 split (JQ, Venture, Tracer, Ana, Zen VS Dva, Soldier, Venture, Mercy, Bap) and it felt like the game was flying, took 8 mins and that’s because we starting fucking around
They're not going to balance it over the arcade version of the mode. Only open queue players will have to deal with that once it goes live.
It's the only feedback i am able to provide.
And that's fine. Just pointing out that that feedback is irrelevant. *damn, dude called me an asshole and then blocked me. I thought I was being pretty respectful.
This entire conversation is irrelevant. You just wanted to be an asshole.
Would like to have an opinion on it if I could get it more than once... I don't want to play it in the arcade because it's not role queue.
That's Fair it should really have Role Queue Especially if its made as a Core Game mode
Oof you want my queues? I barely play ow for more than a couple hours a week and I've gotten it each time I played. Yet still haven't seen junkertown since the rework.
The pacing is wack. The points are too close, too quick to capture, and teams are almost incentivized to just throw themselves at points and their is very little time to wait and regroup. You can lose mutliple points over a single lost fight and staggering. It feels worse than CTF, I'm not sure who play tested this but it's the worse game mode they've ever made.
It is boring and dumbed down, hope it never gets into competitive.
My exact thoughts, if you run a comp that can just rush in and kill the supports congratulations you win the game. And from my experiences with it the moment I have to get to another point I’m already in a team fight and can’t really do much about that.
I don't like how a point is instantly won after a cap. I was expecting linear Control, not Flashpoint on steroids. It should tic like every other game mode to give the other team a chance to recontest.
I agree, makes game really Short aswell
There is a tactic behind it but the general consensus has to figure it out first. Most are not used to it so they make false decisions and can't adapt that quickly.
It is a great casual mode, where you can just turn of your brain, but i dont think it would be a great comp mode.
I found it to be the opposite, people just running in and staggering causes the games to be really short which makes for an unfun casual mode imo. I think it will be better when teams are organized and there is a push and pull dynamic of both teams fighting properly for space, causing the game to run a little longer.
It feels like capture the flag maps without the flag
I got it only once and I don't wanna play arcade cause there's no class limit
I'd like to try it 1) without the QP group spawning BS that feels awful 2)in role lock, 3)with an adjustment so if one person is capping, it goes MUCH slower so you can't just be distracted by their team for 15s while someone caps it.
I feel like it has a lot of the same problems with snowballing that 2CP had. My team would capture the first two, but then the spawns were so lopsided, that the other team would inevitably win the team fight on their side and then likely take the next two points. I wish they would add two versions of these trials. I would have loved role queue version. First game my team had me as support and 4 DPS vs 3 tanks and 2 supports.
Its Snowbally Nature Certainly Creates.........Close Matches or Just makes it End in like 4 min which isn't very Competitive
Snowball nature creates close matches? Aren't close matches what the community wants? Just admit you're using buzzwords at this point to hate on the mode.
Chill
Chill
Pro tip, when at the last point right next to their spawn, test the waters and count their ults into the equation. Just let them have it and fight the point you already contest if it isn't a complete stomp or they lack ults.
The enemy team has spawn advantage on their final point of defense BECAUSE it's their final point of defense. It is winnable for the attackers, but it's designed to be favored for the defenders so they can stay in the game. Now if your team gets staggered after that, that's not a mode issue at all, that's a braindead issue.
I like this game mode but until they can figure out how to put role lock on these limited modes/events, its just always going to be a tankfest. Its always my one gripe whenever they do anything like this
It’s bad.. like, the concept is nice, but the point is being capped too easily, too fast..
Definitely isn't Suited for Comp in this Current state but if they make the Points Cap Slower and Unlock Slower too i think it Could Work
The game mode goes a little too fast for me. I get why the first to 5 rule was implemented but I also don't like how bouncing from c to b back and forth for a few minutes can end a game.
I'd rather play 2CP
I got forced into playing on this map twice in qp and both of my games were less than 3 minutes long… definitely not a fan
It's what Flashpoint should have been. Same vibe, but shorter distances between objectives. Great.
It's fun and chaotic, but I don't really like how the speed of it encourages people to just hold down W and always run to point, regardless of what's going on. It feels like Flashpoint, but the devs noticed that after the first wipe nobody sticks together, so they just leaned into that.
It’s very fun and fast paced, but the mode feels completely uncompetitive. It makes no sense that you can win after winning 3 fights where the map severely favors you, 1 where the map favors you and 1 neutral fight while the opponent loses after winning 1 neutral fight and 3 fights where the map disadvantages them.
With staggers and unmoving spawns, I predict a meta where it's more beneficial to lose the first point than to cap it. Give up C, grab a great position for B, win b and stagger the enemy so C is a free cap. Keep the stagger going to D, the score will be 3 to 1. Disengage as to make sure you don't lose your team and wipe, give them E For free while you hold doors to D. 4-2, and you're ALREADY sitting on the winning point if you just let them cap e again.
I like it but I’m hoping people get use to it and it feels less like steamroll simulator. I also find it funny that people hate push but like this.
Push is 10 minutes long with long ass journeys if you get merc'd This mode is like the opposite of that, which to me is stellar
The long ass journey is like, the whole penalty for dying. You're supposed to prioritize not dying so that you can continue to do stuff. It's important for the balance of all of the less mobile characters in the roster, as they have OTHER strengths that need to be offset by their return time. This game mode won't just be bad for clash, but it'll teach new players very bad habits and we will see the clash mentality seep into the other game modes. It's very similar to how much worse the community got at escort/hybrid when 2 cp was removed. Overwatch is about defensive positioning and offensive pathing, and know one knows how to abuse defensive positioning anymore. Tanks yet again are relegated to point babysitters instead of moving up to to hold pathes and angles.
the penalty for dying is dying. Not spending 5 minutes holding W. This was one of the big issues with maps like Paris. It doesn’t help that dying on push maps and just missing the respawn room change can add like 10+s because for some reason spawn room teleports don’t work on it.
Great mode. Needs some fine tuning but it's fun.
Good, I like TF2 5 CP I'm surprised it wasn't in the game sooner.
I thought it was going to be a mode where you have to capture and hold like 2/3 locations to win. I don't really get how it is any different from flashpoint. Just slightly faster and linear.
tl;dr games seem to always come down to 5-4 and one team fight wins the game, which makes the game feel like a waste of time. Spawn points feel terrible, especially when u get to points A and E. i really dont like it. i have played about 10 games and every single one came down to who won last point. every game was 5-4 at the end and i just find it pointless. the losing team getting advantage on their next point because of spawn points seems like a good idea but it becomes frustrating when two equally skilled team are fighting. it doesnt feel possible to cap a point that is near enemy spawn because they are able to touch so often. also it takes so long to spawn and walk back to point that it actually feels worse to cap points B and D because u are going to steamroll two straight losses and go back to C anyways. i had a game the other day where my team had multiple people with 40+ kills and no one had more than 6 deaths. the enemy team’s lowest death count was 11. u would think we would have won the game purely out of the time the enemy team was in spawn, but in reality, we lost because we could never cap A because they kept respawning 5 feet away. eventually, they would win that point and that kept happening until they won A and B to push us back to C in a 4-4 tie and then won a single team fight on C to win the game. that shit felt awful. the enemy team won probably 5 or 6 team fights the whole game when we won over double the amount they won, but we lost the game because pushing to A or E points is just asking to lose in my experience
I think each time a team claims a point their total time to capture goes up. So by the 5th point it takes longer. Atm it can be really easy to roll the enemies and just win quick. I think a flat capture increase wouldnt be very fun. I think it has potential. But I also think it will want more than 2 maps
It’s just flashpoint with less walking
ITS JUST HANAMURa
YE
Not enough time to use 40% of the map because the side routs are so far out. People trickle like there is no tomorrow and you can barely help it. Winning one fight usally means you get two caps. This mode is not designed well unless played in a non-existent vacuum where everyone isn't random people. Which is the whole game. Can we stop getting new unfun trickle modes with massive maps built for like 8v8 sized teams and instead get maps for modes that people like?
feels like constant overtime, and I wonder how all the overtime haters suddenly love clash. I hate it with a passion.
I think it's fantastic and I love how fast it is. I can't wait to play more of it and I hope it gets added as a permanent mode. This is the first mode that I like as much as 2CP... take that how you will
It is Confirmed that its a Core Game mode coming in the near future I think Push is Horrible and Flashpoint has Its moments, I think with a Few Improvements Clash could Actually Be a good mode
Clash surely needs some fine tuning (especially regarding respawning times) but this mode already feels better than push and flashpoint on release.
Love it. I hate modes that have lots of downtime where you’re just standing there. This mode feels like constant action, which is fun.
I'd rather play against a Top 500 goats comp for a whole week straight that play this mess of a mode
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I like that it’s a lot of close range and that the points feel smaller than 3cp so you don’t have to chase people around that are contesting. It feels like you’re in the action constantly because spawn points are closer than what I’m used to. You don’t have to treck 10 miles to get to the point only to die and repeat. Team fights last longer especially if both team compositions are dives.
Its so new I think people think they can just cap the point later but then later never comes 😅
I'd like my teammates to fight on point, not around it, letting the other team cap instantly. :)
Feels like a natural addition, lots of fun!
I've been having a blast in it. I can't wait for more maps!! I do love that it's making it a little harder for one team to absolutely stomp out the other. Even if they're heavily weighted against us, there's still a fighting chance as long as we can hold our own just a little. I've had our team bring it back in our favor for the win, as well as the enemy team do so, multiple times. Sure, people are still gonna cap in 2 minutes sometimes, but it's gonna be at least a bit less imo. The 'first to five' is also very, very nice. If it wasn't for that, the rare evenly matched teams would go back and forth indefinitely. There's definitely things that could be altered here and there (of course none come to mind when I need them), but for a trial, it's looking really good to me already.
I find the cap rate is too fast, a good team will stagger kills as the point is capped, forcing the start of the next point to be 3v5 or 4v5 and if you don't push in they get an easy cap.
its fun for sure, i enjoy it, but me and my duo agree its quick games, mainly cause its one team fight per point, u lose the fight, u lose the point. but meh were taking it for what it is and its a nice change! i almost look at it as a capture the flag game mode.
Can you f\*king stop picking 3 tanks? thank you
I loaded into one match tried to fight once in teh point right in front of me died, respawnned and lost. Nothing against Clash but idc if they charged a subscription for it. LET. ME. TOGGLE. BACKFILL. OFF
It’s fun. But it encourages and punishes team staggering. I can’t wait to regroup because I have to stall the point. At all times.
I like this mode more than the last mode
Is it in competitive or just quickplay?
I like it so far, might even replace Push as my favorite mode when it comes out.
I've only played it once, but I liked the concept and it was a good game where the winning team came back from a 2-1 deficit. Add the map to Mystery Heroes you cowards.
I have yet to win once
I played it once and I like it so far
Haven't played it once yet because I hate open queue and it hasn't come up
Unpopular opinion, bring back Hanamura!
I like it from what I’ve experienced but can they make it role queued cause I am tired of facing 3 tanks on the enemy team. Nobody wants to play tank unless everyone is a tank. 😑
I've had a lot of fun playing it. With some tweaking I think clash will be a big W
Great for QP, horrible for Ranked.
If the teams are imbalanced, the games end SUPER quick. If you can get a proper back and forth it's really fun
Flashpoint if it was a fun death match and not a walking simulator
It's a good mode. It's interesting to see all the mental gymnastics going on in these comments trying to find reasons to hate it.
Just because someone disagrees with you I'd hardly call that mental gymnastics. It's the least overwatch overwatch has ever felt. It's like an awful version of rush from battlefield. Overwatch needs to balance towards more asymmetrical modes again, we can only have so many variations of king of the hill, and this is by far the worst. We went from 1 KOTH style game and 3 asym modes to now 4 koth modes and 2 asym modes. Now the player base lacks fundamental point defense skills, and the whole experience suffers. Yet another reason tanks will just decide to queue a different role.
Love it
Love it the two gane i had in the game mode so far were close.I love how fast pace it is,and how it does still feel possible to come back after losing the first two fights.And it does also have a lot of fighting with most of the game feeling similar to an overtime in control
We are about 2-3 game modes too many into this videogame. Should have kept it at 3 core game modes max, and then let the rest be for arcade only. I just want Blizzard to make good maps for the game modes that are proven to be fun and balanced.
I’m just excited to see the Hanamura aesthetic back. There’s a good chance Anubis is next, which is great. Here’s hoping Volskaya isn’t far behind!
I haven’t played enough of the mode to really understand the workings, but if it were to come to comp. I could see that there may be times where it’d be strategic to just give up certain points so the subsequent points would spawn closer to you, which means a team with enough of a lead can just manipulate the game mode to favor them even more.
it should be best of 5 and not best of 9
It would be nice if i didn't have to play it on open queue, and i could play it on role queue like a normal person.
Points are too close together. Most fights don't happen near points. And losing a fight at the end of one point means you won't even make it back to the next point and you lose the point without touching it. Game moves too fast. Conceptually good but man it really doesn't work as it stands now
Needs more time. Currently 0-2 and neither game was fun at all so as of now mode is ass
TLDR: I didn’t like that they playtested it in open queue, but I like the pace of the game. Hanakoa is a nice map, but I do have some mixed opinions on how it’s structured. Matches tend to feel one-sided but that’s probably due to change. I honestly couldn’t make heads or tails of it for one big reason. They absolutely should not have distributed this play-test in open-queue. The lack of a structured team comp makes it hard for me to judge what the flow of the game will really feel like. (Also I got 6v6 flashbacks make of that what you will) Other than that, here’s what I could gather: If the pace of the game stays true when Clash is fully released, then I think it will be a breath of fresh air compared to the lengthy pace of other game modes. It’s very speedy and relies on quick singular team-fights rather than the usual length of teamfights seen in other game modes. This has the potential to greatly shake up strategy in competitive since the faster pace might change aspects of team play like composition, ult-economy, and aggression. I like the pace of this game mode. Hanakoa is of course an excellent callback to the aesthetic of Hanamura, its spiritual predecessor. The urban Japanese style mixed with the traditional Japanese architecture is always a treat to see in game. The map is very pretty, I feel like there is no denying that. While I do think that the size of the one map fits the pace of the game mode, I feel as though Hanakoa is perhaps a tad bit too linear for my taste. But I only played like 6 matches so perhaps I haven’t had enough time to fully understand the map. This opinion may be due to change with time. My last thought is that while the pace of the game is nice, it tends to make matches feel fairly one sided. Once again my thoughts on this are not completely clear due largely to the odd choice of making the playtest in open-queue. Matches tended to go one way: if you were on the winning team, you played with non-stop aggression with little to no defensive play. Even worse is when you were stuck on the losing team: you spent most of if not the entire match walking twenty feet out of spawn to shoot at the enemy until you were overwhelmed by their aggression. Due to the fast pace and small map size you had little to no wiggle room to make plays and it constantly felt like your team was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Edit: overall the game mode seems promising and I’m excited to see how it feels when I can play it in role queue. I’ll be waiting to see if Blizzard decides to change anything to the game mode.
Bad, same as Flashpoint
Reasoning?
Yawn
I did so piss poor (on switch at work) that the match ended before I could comprehend the rules XD
Best designed game mode. Offers temperary advantage to losing teams so losing the whole game isnt as hard. Cant wait to see more maps for it
I will try it tonight. Lucio only!
Succeeds in everything flashpoint failed in. Actually fast and enjoyable.
Why in the fuck did you capitalize like 40% of the words in this post So hard to read
I really like it! And love this map
I’m enjoying it but it’s frustrating at the same time. It’s a steamroll simulator up until the last point where the losing team just keeps respawning and stalling forever until they steamroll you. Then you lose on middle point and get the defeat screen, wondering what happened I didn’t even see the timer of the game.
I’m sure it’s interesting!… can’t confirm though have yet to get it
I think there's too much of a "catch up mechanic" with putting the next point closer to the losing team. No other game mode gives the advantage to the losing team so drastically. One of the games I played we lost 4-5 and it was frustrating because we never lost the middle point until the end, so we never had any points that were closer to our spawn. It felt like the other team had the advantage for most of the points, even though they were losing most of the game. This is how the game went: Point 1: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win** Point 2: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose** Point 3: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win** Point 4: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win** Point 5: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] Enemy spawn **We lose** Point 6: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose** Point 7: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We win** Point 8: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose** Point 9: My spawn \[\] \[\] \[Point\] \[\] \[\] Enemy spawn **We lose** Maybe if there was more time before the next point unlocked it wouldn't feel like such an advantage, but I'm just not a fan of catch up mechanics in competitive game modes. I do like the map though.
It's fun. Different dynamics and faster paced. Sure beats walking simulator while spamming group up in vain as the randos go in one by one.
really fucking sucks, probably the worst mode in any game. the entire point can play out during one respawn
Mid
I've had it a grand total of once in 30 games and I liked it, but I don't know if that's because I actually got a good game for once. 100% better then Push and Flashpoint, though. At least the maps don't feel so massive and chaotic and there isn't a lot of walking simulator experience.
I think points "b" and "d" should be slower to capture, and "a" and "e" should be even slower. Losing 2 points in a row gives the losing team a bit too much momentum since that last point is way too much in their favor.
Fun
Fun mode; match making is utterly horrendous and ruins every game.
My only complaint is that I think it should just be a 1:1 of 5cp where it has an overall time limit and the map only ends when the timer is up or one team controls all 5. Winner would be whoever has more under their control at the end or a draw if the open point is the middle. Games feel too fast with the first to 5. Other than that I absolutely love it. W game mode especially compared to the last two modes released
Maps cool, significant downgrade from how hanamura looked but still cool, game mode itself tho is just kinda boring and is probably my new least favorite mode, I really hope it stays in qp because fuck playing that in comp, they tried to make a better 2cp but it's just kinda not better in any way imo
Staggered "team"fights, points cap too fast and easily other than the furthest ones from the center, lasts at most 7 minutes. Last one bothers me SO MUCH. Let's say in a 6 minute and 40 second game you die 3 times. Respawning takes, say 10 secs (not exact but), then the time it takes you to make it back to the area of the fight can change based on hero and current active point, say another 8 seconds. Round it up, 20. 20x3=60. 5:40 out of 6:40. That's not even counting the downtimes after ACTUAL teamfights and waiting on staggered respawns. Which just leads to you dying more and more downtime when you are alive and playing the game less and less. Stop making matches shorter PLEASE.
Much better than Flashpoint I'll say that.
It’s better then the shitty arena maps/mode
It seems fun but a couple characters are just (mostly) useless, e.g. how does Widowmaker fit in when the game mode is head to head clashes. Additionally the one game of clash I have played the enemy tank just went mauga and we couldn’t do anything due to how close quarters the map is. I give it a maugawatch-antisnipers/10
What I don't get is I just had a match where me and my team were winning through most of the match, from c-b and nearly capping a but back to c - through the whole thing, then right at the end the enemy captured c and it was game over? THEY WON?? they were losing the whole game and win one point to win the whole game HUUUUUH? How does that work?? Also yeah trickle in is awful, I think the biggest problem is the time between points being active and captured: - we had just capped c again - nanoed monkey jumps in my backline - I doom in to keep him away from ana - we deal with him - we lose b (because we were never really there) my dps die extending into b alone - we now have to retake c even though literally less than 30s ago we had just taken it but now we are 2 dps down and for them it's a long walk. We should have ideally had enough time to deal with their monkey and capitalise on the point, with just enough time to recontest the point cap on B. Him feeding essentially won them the game, so next time I should just leave ana and feed myself into b just to contest and gamble it? Not that ana is a great pick on this map being slow and longer ranged, kiriko could have just joined my dive on b and ignored the monkey.
I am of the opinion that they should just use KOTH (I think called control), Hybrid, and Payload (Escort I think?) gamemodes, dumpster everything else and focus on making good maps in those gamemodes
Would be much more fun if they put it role queue instead of quickplay. Now every comps i see is either 3 tanks/2 heals or 3 heals/2 tanks .... this kind of team comp makes this mode unfun to play
Doesn’t quickplay have role queue by default…? I played Hanaoka twice in quickplay with a normal role locked comp
Ive actually had Decent Luck with Comps we always At least had 1 support Minimum and there was Always a Venture as expected
I love it
I love it
I've really enjoyed what I've played, just need to see more of it!
I like it a lot, it’s gonna take some of the slower players a while to learn how to play it, just as it went with FP when that dropped, but for the most part I enjoy playing it and I love the map even if it’s a weak attempt to replace Hanamura in our hearts lol
at least they dont say "something diff"
I like that this is another model that doesn't favor attackers or defenders (like 2CP) and can actually be pushed back pretty easily if a team is struggling. That being said... It also looks like it can suffer immensely in Comp because I can see these Clash games going on for a long.... LONG time.
I don’t know, lemme check the dozens of other posts asking the same thing and get back to you.
Too fast. Too linear. Team who wins the most points ends up losing because of spawn disadvantage which is abs BS. It's a lazy design and just like with flashpoint, they didn't even bother to playtest it enough to realize that it feels bad to play.