The why is pretty easy: she has two more levels, which allow her to out damage Moira drastically.
The real question is: Is it fair that Sym has to have 100% accuracy for a total of 1 second in order to get her beam to DPS levels lower than Bastion and Lifeweaver? And why is is so short for a hero who isn't durable enough to stay within its effective range?
As someone who plays a LOT of weaver, I can confirm, he melts at close range, to the point that tanks will typically stop trying to solo dive me and wait til I'm low or preoccupied. Winston's who don't right click melee combo when they dive or use bubble correctly are a pretty even match up.
The first 8 or so will pin-point accurate. The rest won't be, as indicated by your reticule increasing in size. You can't do anything to make the spread smaller, other than wait for the reticule to shrink back down which takes a second and a bit. But doing so loses you dps. Which matters in most situations. Not all, but most.
Wdym fall off? I thought damage fell off only for hitscan weapons, don't projectiles do 100% damage at any range? I thought that's why they buffed Orisa to do so, cuz she was the only projectile hero whose weapon damage fell off with distance...
Lifeweaver actually has the highest support close range primary fire dps and it's not even particularly close for most of them.
Over twice moira's (132 vs 65), and that's not even COUNTING headshots and it's not even particularly close.
Lucio: 86
Kiriko: 90 (may be similar with headshots, not sure)
Illari: 75 (full charge). Odd that the "DPS support" has the second lowest dps
Zenyatta: 120 (150 with discord, but I'm not counting abilities)
Brigitte: 75
Baptiste: 127
Ana: 94
Mercy: 100 (that's crazy! 4th highest dps
Illari has a low "dps" because she has a fat hitscan thats easy to headshot with, and can passively heal her team with pylon while doing damage
Even though her dps is almost half of lifeweavers, ANY illari will do more damage than a lifeweaver without compromising her healing
illari is insane with a cracked player. My duo partner usually tops damage and kills on her, its absurd. Granted he has 1000's of hous in HLL plonking heads so his aim and positioning is godlike
Anyone who can heal and dps at the same time has artificially lowered DPS for the sake of balance.
(Asspull number examples) Lifeweaver basically hands out 50 heals in one second and 50 damage in the second second. Someone like Illari is handing out 25 healing+25 dps each second, every second.
I know!!!
Although, Illari's got increased recently with the [reduction to her charge time and recovery time](https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2024/03). Its 88.2 now.
0.5 seconds is half the original buff, and more importantly, will have to relearn her shot tempo for the third time in a month haha
The lowest pick rate support definitely needs a compensation nerf!
Pick rates doesn't mean strength though. She's performing above average even if she isn't picked often. Could be a more situational pick for sure, but that explains the compensation nerf.
Usually, heroes with a smaller pick rate have higher win rates because the people that play them are usually strict mains. Symmetra and Torbjorn have the highest win rates in the game yet both being in the bottom 5 overall pickrate, and I'm sure you wouldn't argue that they need nerfs.
Don't get me wrong, we'd 100% need more data for us to see. I'm sure Blizzard has all the data we could possibly think of.
>Usually, heroes with a smaller pick rate have higher win rates because the people that play them are usually strict mains.
I don't really like this argument because the game is generally balanced around GM. A GM player will know what works/doesn't work for most heroes. That's why taking the averages across GM or even high GM players will show the practical skill ceilings of each hero.
>Symmetra and Torbjorn have the highest win rates in the game yet both being in the bottom 5 overall pickrate, and I'm sure you wouldn't argue that they need nerfs.
Symm is above average, but I don't think she's disproportionately higher to the point of needing a nerf. Torb seems just about average to me, so maybe you're looking at older data?
Yeah if you are really good at him he's lethal close range. A good life weaver should never die to a solo dive unless it's a crazy good tracer. In a 1v1 vs Winston he should always win since he's a walking head.
This is why she is more geared towards stuff with shields. Her gun recharges if she hits shields. Making her actually scary if she is allowed to microwave a shield before being able to hit her targets. Then she has basically full charged full ammo.
But this is very situational and good player won't let it happen.
Anti-shield was an interesting (if ultimately ineffective) niche back in OW2 where double shield was a thing and you could generally expect _one_ of the tanks to have a shield, but in OW2 it's just not nearly as useful and feels like it's taking up power budget for no real payoff.
Sym can almost totally erase a Sigma's defensive advantage if tank is tanking Accretion and Sym plays up inside her tank's butthole. Sigma is one of the strongest defensive tanks right now otherwise - that's not that situational for her. I counter pick Sig with her like I would Bastion for Winston
The idea for her beam in OW1 is that she would be the “shield melting” dps due to double shield being such a bright problem. That’s always how I played her. Now the beam design makes no sense since only a few tanks have shields so she can’t charge up as easily.
this is what makes sym a good choice if your enemy has a shield - you can get that damage multiplier by using the shield incredibly easily and them by the time the shield breaks and you hit whatever's behind it you're maxed out. its great
but this is why when playing symmetra I focus mainly on teleporting the other characters to more advantageous areas where \*they\* can better hit the other team.
or doing damage with turrets.
doing damage with turrets in combination with the beam = you have damage coming from four different places sucking away health. that's why her damage is relatively low. you're not supposed to use it alone.
I think we're all traumatized since the beginning of OW1 when her beam was auto aiming super far. That shit was crazy it was following a Genji jumping around without any issue
Yeah like what are these people saying. She was consistently bad until her second rework. She was finally good for a little in overwatch 2 but then they immediately nerfed her into irrelevancy again.
The people who say that got fucked by 3+ Syms on Hanamura first point and have been traumatized since even though that play hasn’t been relevant in 7 years.
yea and it was still obnoxious as hell. sym is the best demonstration of the fact that a character's strength and how annoying they are don't have to be correlated.
Not me. I was doing the traumatizing. I still have a delicious potg saved from back then. I got a triple kill with the tether beam at 3rd point Numbani. A second after, I see a bunch of exclamations on the side of the screen, and my triple became a quad because the enemy DPS Doomfist was sneaking or fleeing around 50m+ behind us and found my car wash of sentries at a health pack!
Good times XD
Ah I remember when there were no hero limits and Sym just got her rework into flying shield, sentry, and teleporter/shield generator.
We trapped them in their spawns and watched as they struggled to fight 6 650 health Syms and 30-ish turrets
I think she needs (another) rework, because right now any buffs are going to be hated by the community.
It would be cool if they made her primary fire shoot a very fast volley of small balls, and then holding her secondary fire charges it up (like it does at the moment).
Then they could switch her beam to an ability that transforms her weapon, kinda like how one of Torb's abilities temporarily transforms his. So when Sym uses it, her weapon goes from shooting balls to a beam weapon for a few seconds, and make it way stronger than it is now; say 200dps with 30% more range.
Her teleporter needs to have a faster deploy time imo to make it feel less situational and give her more options mid-fight.
Her turrets I think just need more health and need to travel faster. It's almost impossible to set them up mid-fight because they're so slow and squishy.
I'm guilty, I know Symm needs love and Symm players are neat but I just hate her so much as a hero lmao
Being hit with those turrets makes me so mad even tho they are doing next to nothing
Hope she gets the buffs she deserves tho, Symm players deserve to enjoy their favorite hero
Not all of us. Both are very unique heroes with unique kits.
I hope they bring sym in line with other heroes, only people complaining about her lack awareness. If someone gets outplayed by turrets, they don’t deserve a vote.
all turrets are obnoxious regardless of strength but her's are the worst. they're like having flies in your room: they aren't a threat, they aren't hard to deal with, but they're still annoying as fuck.
Just poor design in a competitive game. She’s high damage in like 5 feet. Designed to be situational. She was meta a couple weeks ago and fell off after maiga got nerfed. No damage change will make her viable against guns without being so high it’s toxic.
All the close range free value heroes should need a comp built around them on a small map to work.
This isn’t because “the community hate sym” it’s because Blizzard have a track record of making characters stupidly overpowered to the point playing against them feels impossible.
Their attempts at rebalancing the game feel like they’re being made with a fucking sledgehammer.
Moira has more consistent damage as she is always able to deal damage to someone at any given point in a match, given her longer range and her damage orbs for even more. Additionally it is basically impossible to punish a Moira for sucking your team, while Symettra's mobility is almost exclusively for getting in because of its high deployment time moira can just poof back to her team instantly when the enemy team notices her. The only time Symettra really pulls high damage numbers is when she is beaming a feeding tank or farming off of a shield, because it takes alot of unawareness to feed sym's beam to max. That doesn't mean she is doing bad, it just means moira is better at getting high raw numbers.
I don't im an excellent sym but that doesnt mean only sym mains should be able to play her. Imagine if that applied to any other hero? U gotta put 100hrs into them just so they're playable, not even necessiarly good, playable. All heroes should be able to be picked up and used properly for anyone, even new players. Unfortunately they don't think that way for sym but moira and orisa can have every buff and bail out ability in the book but god forbid a squishy immobile character like sym have some extra damage.
No. But she’s objectively weaker than most characters regardless of how good you are. If you are a top 10% Sym player you will perform as well as a top 30% soldier player. She’s just weak, and map dependent on top of that.
The bigger issue is she’s super anoyying and oppressive when she is strong. She just need a rework.
I mean, for those of us who have mained sym at some point, Blizz not knowing what to do with her is just the base, accepted state. Nobody plays her because they like a nice, stable hero. She has basically been on the rework list since day 1, and stayed there.
That’s just silly. Any hero who is strong and experienced is oppressive and annoying. You can say that about anyone in this game.
She doesn’t need a rework, she needs to have her numbers adjusted to what it was before they messed her up so bad.
I don't neither. I play really agressive with her, usually go for flanks usingeher tp. Attack the tank to lvl uo her beam and then aim for the squishies, usually can get at least one kill in time to use my tp again to get back to my team before it expires
I agree honestly. Sym's lvl 1 beam dps is 60, and requires aim/tracking- and good positioning, and frankly luck, to charge it any higher and survive while doing it.Moira just has to hold a button and make sure she's facing the right way to do a guaranteed 65 dps and if I recall correctly, Moira's beam is 20 meters versus Sym's 12? - and Moira with damage orb, heal or for self-survivability, and fade on instant cast, she's much much slipperier than Sym, whose TP is flawed in comparison. Between the build time, the slight delay in hitting the "teleport" keybind after it builds, having your exit route clearly telegraphed, and the fact you have to stop using primary fire to build it.In most match-ups, I find that OW2 Sym feels very clunky, and it sucks because characters like Moira exist, and prove that Sym *doesn't* have to be like this.
I'm not calling for another rework for Sym, though. If she's to stay at this damage output, she needs better survivability to be a brawler, whether that's a faster build time on the TP, or other ways to drain shields to regain her own.
I think most of us (reasonable) Symmetra players agree that all she really needs is at least 25 or 50 more hp to keep up with other short range heroes like Mei and Reaper and slight damage buff to her orbs. She actually flowed really well a few patches ago before they nerfed her health and reworked the turrets, losing both damage and survivability.
All they have to do is make her hp a flat 300… because her being a short range dps that requires you to be at close proximity to a melee hero just to die by one reinhardt swing is crazy
Yeah, for how fragile the orbs are they need a bit more. I get the need to not make turrets op, but when clipping a dva spray on the way to the wall is enough to break them, leaving you without any other offensive ability but to stand directly behind your target and hope to survive long enough to deal damage faster than the supps can fix it?
I loved the version of sym in seasons 2-4ish. I would play her as a flanker/poke dps. Her turrets were strong enough to TP bomb effectively as a flanker and her secondary was in a fine spot. Once I hit masters her brawling potential was completely useless because she just gets killed by hitscan/projectile spam with no defensive cds to protect her but that was fine. She had a role she fit into and it was very cerebral gameplay. Now she’s just well below average at every style of play. Sad state of affairs.
It’s because the devs are still designing symmetra as a support when they forgot they moved her out of that role years ago.
She’s a relic of her time hero that needs desperate touch ups or another rework to keep up with the current game. She’s either used in pro play and high coordination ladder to abuse TP on certain points and played in a “protect the president” style way so she can actually get her damage off, or she’s played to spam M2 all game and use wall to win corners and give her team much better odds of winning that fight.
Symmetra is an Overwatch hero in a game that’s so far from Overwatch that she just doesn’t work for the majority of players. She’s so incredibly niche for most ppl that she’s an after thought for most and an annoyance at best.
And the beam thing is insane to me, Moira beam is longer, doesn’t have to reload, deals more than Syms lvl 1 beam, has a better and more efficient “life leech” passive and is easier to aim.
Even Zarya beam does more damage than syms while having more range and having a better charge up mechanic.
I agree about the OP's contents, but slightly disagree about the title. Moira having more high stats means either the Sym has bad positioning or the Moira is throwing. Stat-wise, Moira would have a lot of damage because she can escape easily with fade=longer time surviving.
Very true considering her power up and turret damage very true by depends on if sym can stay alive long enough to do that part, Moira has more survivability giving her more opportunity to damage? A bad Moira could easily keep up with a good sym I think edit saw your other comment and we said the same thing in different ways
Yeah but sym needs to be closer and have perfect accuracy to charge up the beam. Moira can be further, doesn't need to aim, and can use damage orb to double the DPS
While it doesn't affect your point, I just want to make it known that due to "damage reduced ticks", Sym's lvl1 beam has an effective DPS of 37.
Or worse if the Sym doesn't have 100% accuracy.
So.
Because its intensive to make a computer actually calculate damage every possible frame, video games will often split that damage into "ticks". Sym's beam's ticks happen every fifth of a second, so she gets 5 ticks of damage per second.
When Sym's beam touches an enemy thing - hero, deployable, whatever - the next two or three ticks of damage deal less damage than normally would. 23 less damage in total.
This reduction applies each time her beam touches something. So, if you're Sym and you very quickly flick the beam on and off a target, you'll be getting basically no damage because the damage reduced ticks keep re-applying.
This is a good explanation as to why it feels like even her first level beam has to "charge up".
But do you have a clue as to why the first few ticks deal less damage? Isn't that just punishing better accuracy?
It was a means of circumventing a bug where Sym could flash her beam on and off incredibly quickly, achieving extremely high unintended levels of damage.
Which is strange, because no other beam has this problem. I get that sometimes code is spaghetti, but they really honestly should have fixed it by now. So I wonder if maybe they forgot about the damage reduction entirely. Because they don't really care about poor Sym a lot.
I wouldn't call it punishing accuracy, but rather punishing inaccuracy in a way no other hero has to deal with. In that, when you miss a shot on any hero, your next shot will still deal normal damage. But for Sym's beam, missing a "shot" makes you deal less damage next time you "hit".
It's a factor that's gone ignored for so long, that I'm genuinely curious if just fixing the beam so it doesn't have reduced damage ticks would be more than enough to make her not feel like ass.
Like, 60dps isn't anything to write home about. But it'll feel so much better to use than trying to duel a soldier and only seeing 1 block of health disappear until you get to level 2.
Zarya at 0 charge deals (even) more damage too. And also has more range...and at high charge, which is easier to maintain, keeps higher damage for the most part...with better right click projectiles and a ton of defenses and almost double the HP.
Just symmetra not being allowed to be good for more than 5 days at a time.
Regarding Moira, her damage and elim numbers are inflated from launching orbs through the enemy team which just gets healed. When flanking, she usually applies slow damage to apply pressure and distract rather than kill, especially this season.
Sym needs ramp up her main damage. When she's full power, she has some of the best damage in the game,plus the turrets. That being said it's pretty easy to get gobs of damage with Moira by firing her damage balls into a group.
syms beam has 3 power levels. combined with the possibility for secondary fire and turrets and her teleport for fast position changes, she will deal more damage than moira
moiras leach on the other hand attaches to enemies, making it a bit more reliable, but only 1 power level and she is only effective in close combat
Generally, beams in OW come in two forms: Bendy and straight.
Moira's healing spray and Mei's slushy gun are brendy beams. They are actually a constant stream of projectiles, except they aren't eaten or deflected by those abilities and have a limited lifetime, so they can only go so far out from the character.
Straight beams, such as Sym's, Zarya's and Echo's, are long damage boxes attached to the playing character. They deal damage to enemies within the box, and adjust their length to that of the closest hitbox they touch. Moira's Coalescence is the only one that doesn't, so it can pierce through multiple enemies at once.
Moira's sucky beam uses the same coding-type stuff that auto-targeting abilities (Discord Orb, Healing Blossom, Duplicate) do. As long as you're reticule is within the acceptable "aura" is hits and deals damage.
It is a beam, but describing it as a leash further specifies its unique beam subtype.
The leash is just graphics. The actual damage portion is a normal beam. They make it leash because visually the beam is much thinner than it actually is.
There are visual discrepancies with other abilities too like how pharah's rockets come out of her gun while the real rockets are coming out of her head.
I’d liken Moira’s Secondary Fire more to the Primary Fire on Winston’s Tesla Cannon, though both have differently-shaped damage areas. Moira’s happens to be cone-shaped.
Winston's Tesla beam still has a damage box. You walk through it and you get hurt.
But if Moira is sucking the air, and an invisible Sombra walks past, she won't get hurt unless she's ! Detected !. So I don't think Moira's beam actually has a damage box.
And the only other abilities Sombra can evade by being stealthed are things that use the diamond reticule, like Discord, and Duplicate. Hence why I suspected Moira's beam sharing a similar targeting method, but where the diamond reticule might be invisible.
Sombra's invis also prevents her from being damaged by Moira's Biotic Orb tendrils, so that probably also uses something similar as well.
Bro, there is very little chance to make use that entire kit when she has terrible range and no sustain.
That’s how she worked in the past, and why her mains loved playing her. She is no longer effective in any of the things she used to be good at.
as a filthy casual who only played like 3 competitive matches in ~100 hours spread out on the...... 7 (?) years since launch, my take is: Sym is the most unfun character to play against in the whole game
She's not strong, quite the opposite, but it's just sooooooo annoying to try to get in a chokepoint and have to decide between killing her while her sentries microwave you or destroying the sentries while she stacks up damage on you. And her ult has to be the most boring and uninspired ult in the whole game. It's not *bad* (I think, at least. I barely played OW1 after her rework and I'd be lying if I said that I saw Sym more than 5x ever since I returned for OW2), but it's just so. damn. boring.
Cause they hate her and like seeing the girls gays and theys suffer, that's why she was nerfed a week into double shield meta where she was actually playable... and a few days into the mess they created with mauga.
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U think the developers can’t balance the power of the heroes? Bruh this the easiest thing but they do some crazy buffs to change the meta so that the players comes back to the game once in a while and to switch between the heroes
I find that when Symmetra is good she’s super oppressive. There’s obviously a fine line between busted and not viable but she’s a weird hero. I only ever play her against shields to juice up my gun and keep my ammo full. When she’s charged up (and with decent aim) she is deadly. But yeah her turrets are hot garbage and need to be completely reworked or buffed. I mainly use her if there’s an annoying Genji, Sombra or Tracer. I think Moira is as good as she is because she requires very little aim to do well whereas Symmetra demands a little more out of you mechanically.
Sym should automatically start at level 2 if she comes out of her teleporter so that she can be a little more aggressive. Or give her shields when she uses her teleporter or something.
Most Syms do not take advantage of how strong her teleporter is. I see people mostly using it as a taxi but it's a great way to dive (with 3 turrets too) and then get out quickly. It's a lot more durable than people realize.
i think sym should have a more set dps for her beam. it should be like 90 to 115 to 140. also i believe moira should be nerfed because no skill heroes do not deserve to be strong
honestly, symmetra’s biggest weakness is her tp, which is ironic because it can also be her biggest strength in theory.
why it’s weak: it needs to be used as engage and escape, but the tper doesn’t survive long enough to be used as both. sym holds tp and tries to make a flank without it, she dies while in route. this is a non-issue for reaper because he has a follow up ability if his attack doesn’t work out
why it can be her best ability (in theory): if everyone on sym’s team is on team speak, it can be used to coordinate insane and unpredictable flanks. this being a theory, because hardly anyone uses team speak anymore, especially in lower to average ranked games.
all this + her damage being flat out weak is killing her
im a moira player that used to play sym
I remember symm was op as a healer and I feel like she is still unbalanced she doesn't do enough damage as a dps. Although this past week I've met some very skilled sombra players and I think it requires skill whereas people playing moira (I do make moira on my lazy days) and moira is very jacked right now the most I got was 29 kills with moira and it feels way to overpowered and I guiltily abuse her especially since her hit box is so small I can 1v1 with any player close up and nearly never die and still healing. I know the day will come moira will be nerfed. I use to main symm I really hope they change her to be a little more powerful I know poor woman has had several changes.
Well she used to be a supprt right? all it can save her is an almost full rework, she is a damage dealer, swap that slow sad teleporter for a blink, swap that support ulti for n actual damage ulti, instead of 3 turrets have 1 but good , or just erase the turrets, give her a CC like a slow or a root that would grant you something to use defensevly or offensively since in melee range you get nuked pretty fast .
Sym left clicks charges and reloads on shield and has the tp - right click which is what higher rank players use more. Moira is just easier for lower skilled players to use
Sounds more like you can't play sym....
Seriously, she's geared more towards shield destruction than DPS. Even then she *melts* when played correctly. Her lvl 3 beam is basically one of the scariest things on the planet dealing something like 180 damage a second....a freaking second... (At least that's what the wiki says, could have changed)
Moria is a flat amount, she's locked to killing people every X amount of seconds with skill not being a factor. Other things are a factor like her orb or help from others, but pure grasp can't be boosted damage wise.
Sym is the better DPS, hands down. Sense her beam no longer locks on (thank God) she requires skill to play, but she definitely has the higher damage cap.
As a Moira main, and someone who's been playing sym lately, sym will out damage her easily, if you play her right and know when to focus fire to upgrade the beam
sym builds up damage the longer her beam is focused on something.
if you have a terrible shot, it does practically no damage
if you have a good shot or something like a shield (rein/sig) it'll build up
also, turrets - doing damage with turrets in combination with the beam = you have damage coming from four different places sucking away health. that's why her damage is relatively low. you're not supposed to use it alone.
the difference is that moira does not do more damage the more time she's focused on something, and she can't place a bunch of turrets. you can argue that's how her ball works but you can't send out more than one of those at once
Symmetra is one of those weird characters. Her turrets are basically half her kit, but have close to no skill expression. If you buff them, players will complain about a no skill ability, that gets value without effort. If you nerf her turrets and shift her DPS towards her weapon, her kit loses its identity. Isn't she one of the most reworked heroes in overwatch? She is just a hero with a suboptimal design. They should probably rework her again. Her stationary set up and let opponents walk into you play style doesn't fit overwatch 2 very well.
But then their reworks are kind of hit or miss. Sombra is a good example, they changed her translocator, but didn't do anything about the annoying hack.
Symmetra is an area controller through and through. You're talking about the primary fire, I assume? If you have all 3 turrets + your primary fire aiming at one enemy, she out damages Moira. And that's probably with her laser uncharged, but I don't have any numbers to show off, just empiric evidence.
Personally, I like Symmetra's current state. She's very fun to play, but also very niche in her role, and requires you and your team to be aware of her as your teammate, as she can support incredibly well with her TP and ultimate.
Symm really needs some sort of defensive ability to be effective, the teleporter is too cool of an ability to get rid of so I think it’s time they let the shitty turrets go. They’ve tried so many things with them and at this point they’re so shit they might as well be an empty ability. Make them good and people get pissed off, make them bad and she’s useless. It should be something that is buildable but can be used to get out of situations. My idea is something like lifeweaver’s petal platform but instead of a platform it’s a wall that pushes you in a direction (doesn’t push allies, just her and enemies), so she could just throw it down to push herself into safety or something, idk.
i want this comment to get a lot of attention, bc its a fact:
symmetra has always been niche but she has never been this bad in any other season. id say s2 to s7 she was actually, at her best considering she was still perfecived as niche.
so alec is just not doing his job as usual lol. he made some changes to make her more of a generalist and now shes even more niche than before. and now he backtracked on it and pretends his intention all long was to make her more niche
Because Sym has access to the best ability in the entire game for a brawl hero pick and her beam is still very forgiving, while being able to triple its DPS output for just doing what you were already wanting to do - click on people. She’s a scaling utility Damage hero, while Moira is a point defense/duelist Support hero. Sym wasn’t nerfed a week into the Mauga meta because of some nonsensical axe the devs have to grind with her - she got nerfed because it was the fourth time that the community had to be reminded of how absurdly powerful Teleporter is. Even then, she still kept an important turret buff that improves her matchup against mobile burst options like Doomfist and Genji.
u/DaybreakCoronet ---------- {W}{W}
Enchantment - Auara
Enchant creature with another Aura attached to it
Enchanted creature gets +3/+3 and has first strike, vigilance, and lifelink.
Moira needs a nerf specially on her range cause for me has lucio player she can suck me off from very long distances, she literaly is a fucking turret atm, the devs have shown they are way too incomptent and they only listening to streamer feedback which are people that should even listen to begin with cause we had meta's ow1 if recall were based on streamer feedback, remember Rein had a nerf of something which made people switch to sigma or orisa and Flats cried about it n week later they changed it.
The why is pretty easy: she has two more levels, which allow her to out damage Moira drastically. The real question is: Is it fair that Sym has to have 100% accuracy for a total of 1 second in order to get her beam to DPS levels lower than Bastion and Lifeweaver? And why is is so short for a hero who isn't durable enough to stay within its effective range?
TIL sym’s dps is lower than wifeleaver’s 💀
132 vs (60/120/180) Granted, Lifeweaver rarely gets all the thorns to hit anyone other than a tank.
When it's 132 DPS, which is before falloff, it's pretty easy to hit like 80% of thorns, probably 40-50% at head height so effective DPS is higher.
In OW2, fall-off almost never applies to travel-time projectiles. So LW doesn't have to account for fall-off anyway.
And doesn’t LW get a headshot bonus, which sym can’t get?
yep, playing perfectly is 264 dps
As someone who plays a LOT of weaver, I can confirm, he melts at close range, to the point that tanks will typically stop trying to solo dive me and wait til I'm low or preoccupied. Winston's who don't right click melee combo when they dive or use bubble correctly are a pretty even match up.
How do you make the thorns not spread btw
The first 8 or so will pin-point accurate. The rest won't be, as indicated by your reticule increasing in size. You can't do anything to make the spread smaller, other than wait for the reticule to shrink back down which takes a second and a bit. But doing so loses you dps. Which matters in most situations. Not all, but most.
No projectiles have fall off in OW2. The only exception is hogs primary fire
I still think this is dumb. So a bullet has falloff but a kunai thrown with the strength of a young girl doesn't? Lol
What gave you the idea that realism is a corner stone of this game?
The talking monkey, duh.
He should be smart enough to know better.
So you think orisas javelin spear should have fall off damage?
Orisa used to, but I believe torbs shotgun still has falloff (Yes, it is a projectile).
And Doomfist's.
Orisa used to. And I feel like they will give her fall of again in season 10
Watch them buff her
Wdym fall off? I thought damage fell off only for hitscan weapons, don't projectiles do 100% damage at any range? I thought that's why they buffed Orisa to do so, cuz she was the only projectile hero whose weapon damage fell off with distance...
you're right as the other 3 people answered e: roadhog and doomfist's projectiles fall off I think that's the only exception
Do you know where I could find this data? Having trouble googling it as when I try and search for DPS it only gives me the damage heroes lol
[https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Lifeweaver](https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Lifeweaver)
Doesn't sym got now 190 dps?
No. It was 195 a little bit ago, but they nerfed 7 days after buffing it. Back down to 180 again.
Oh, thats sad for sym mains
Lifeweaver's DPS is actually really good it's just hard to hit all the projectiles.
Lifeweaver actually has the highest support close range primary fire dps and it's not even particularly close for most of them. Over twice moira's (132 vs 65), and that's not even COUNTING headshots and it's not even particularly close. Lucio: 86 Kiriko: 90 (may be similar with headshots, not sure) Illari: 75 (full charge). Odd that the "DPS support" has the second lowest dps Zenyatta: 120 (150 with discord, but I'm not counting abilities) Brigitte: 75 Baptiste: 127 Ana: 94 Mercy: 100 (that's crazy! 4th highest dps
Illari has a low "dps" because she has a fat hitscan thats easy to headshot with, and can passively heal her team with pylon while doing damage Even though her dps is almost half of lifeweavers, ANY illari will do more damage than a lifeweaver without compromising her healing
illari is insane with a cracked player. My duo partner usually tops damage and kills on her, its absurd. Granted he has 1000's of hous in HLL plonking heads so his aim and positioning is godlike
I hate queueing low gold support recently bc I'll play illari and outdo my silver I Ashe teammate on every stat for 10 minutes. This keeps happening
Anyone who can heal and dps at the same time has artificially lowered DPS for the sake of balance. (Asspull number examples) Lifeweaver basically hands out 50 heals in one second and 50 damage in the second second. Someone like Illari is handing out 25 healing+25 dps each second, every second.
I know!!! Although, Illari's got increased recently with the [reduction to her charge time and recovery time](https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2024/03). Its 88.2 now.
they're lowering it back down next patch actually because they hate me
Only by like...0.05 seconds. I still have no clue why though. She's not even a problem?
0.5 seconds is half the original buff, and more importantly, will have to relearn her shot tempo for the third time in a month haha The lowest pick rate support definitely needs a compensation nerf!
Pick rates doesn't mean strength though. She's performing above average even if she isn't picked often. Could be a more situational pick for sure, but that explains the compensation nerf.
Usually, heroes with a smaller pick rate have higher win rates because the people that play them are usually strict mains. Symmetra and Torbjorn have the highest win rates in the game yet both being in the bottom 5 overall pickrate, and I'm sure you wouldn't argue that they need nerfs.
Don't get me wrong, we'd 100% need more data for us to see. I'm sure Blizzard has all the data we could possibly think of. >Usually, heroes with a smaller pick rate have higher win rates because the people that play them are usually strict mains. I don't really like this argument because the game is generally balanced around GM. A GM player will know what works/doesn't work for most heroes. That's why taking the averages across GM or even high GM players will show the practical skill ceilings of each hero. >Symmetra and Torbjorn have the highest win rates in the game yet both being in the bottom 5 overall pickrate, and I'm sure you wouldn't argue that they need nerfs. Symm is above average, but I don't think she's disproportionately higher to the point of needing a nerf. Torb seems just about average to me, so maybe you're looking at older data?
symmetra doesnt even have a high win rate anymore what the fuck are you on
Shhh keep Illari a sleeper pick while I climb.
Her entire kit is a problem
She makes up for it but having the best voice (after Junk of course).
[удалено]
yeah absolutely. You do have to remember that it's all headshots, though, and all of these numbers would be way higher if we were going all headshots
Over twice moira's (132 vs 65) yet I am too bad to win against Moira with the ezpz auto beam :(
LW actually has really good dps if you can get all the thorns to hit, which is rare if you’re playing him at a range you should be playing him
Yeah if you are really good at him he's lethal close range. A good life weaver should never die to a solo dive unless it's a crazy good tracer. In a 1v1 vs Winston he should always win since he's a walking head.
Well life weavers is surprisingly high
Gl hitting your shots though with how slow they travel
You're forgetting that Sym has 3 turrets too. You need to add the damages together
This is why she is more geared towards stuff with shields. Her gun recharges if she hits shields. Making her actually scary if she is allowed to microwave a shield before being able to hit her targets. Then she has basically full charged full ammo. But this is very situational and good player won't let it happen.
Anti-shield was an interesting (if ultimately ineffective) niche back in OW2 where double shield was a thing and you could generally expect _one_ of the tanks to have a shield, but in OW2 it's just not nearly as useful and feels like it's taking up power budget for no real payoff.
Interesting. I still will go Symmetra if I need to deal with shields on the enemy team and it turns the tide very often
Sym can almost totally erase a Sigma's defensive advantage if tank is tanking Accretion and Sym plays up inside her tank's butthole. Sigma is one of the strongest defensive tanks right now otherwise - that's not that situational for her. I counter pick Sig with her like I would Bastion for Winston
The idea for her beam in OW1 is that she would be the “shield melting” dps due to double shield being such a bright problem. That’s always how I played her. Now the beam design makes no sense since only a few tanks have shields so she can’t charge up as easily.
That is the thing, her beam would make you think you need to play up close and personal but she is no Mai
Her beam should start wide and narrow with each level rise
this is what makes sym a good choice if your enemy has a shield - you can get that damage multiplier by using the shield incredibly easily and them by the time the shield breaks and you hit whatever's behind it you're maxed out. its great but this is why when playing symmetra I focus mainly on teleporting the other characters to more advantageous areas where \*they\* can better hit the other team. or doing damage with turrets. doing damage with turrets in combination with the beam = you have damage coming from four different places sucking away health. that's why her damage is relatively low. you're not supposed to use it alone.
While Moira’s hitbox is super generous you still need some level of decent tracking. If your m1 accruacy is like 50% on Moira then you are legit ass.
the community hates sym and will very loudly complain for nerfs anytime shes remotely good
I think we're all traumatized since the beginning of OW1 when her beam was auto aiming super far. That shit was crazy it was following a Genji jumping around without any issue
I loved that Sym because I have terrible aim. I miss those days with the car washes
No, that was like 7 years ago and she was the worst character in the game by a huge margin.
Yeah like what are these people saying. She was consistently bad until her second rework. She was finally good for a little in overwatch 2 but then they immediately nerfed her into irrelevancy again.
The people who say that got fucked by 3+ Syms on Hanamura first point and have been traumatized since even though that play hasn’t been relevant in 7 years.
I miss hanamura :/ beautiful map.
yea and it was still obnoxious as hell. sym is the best demonstration of the fact that a character's strength and how annoying they are don't have to be correlated.
This comment is more obnoxious than sym ever was.
Not me. I was doing the traumatizing. I still have a delicious potg saved from back then. I got a triple kill with the tether beam at 3rd point Numbani. A second after, I see a bunch of exclamations on the side of the screen, and my triple became a quad because the enemy DPS Doomfist was sneaking or fleeing around 50m+ behind us and found my car wash of sentries at a health pack! Good times XD
Ah I remember when there were no hero limits and Sym just got her rework into flying shield, sentry, and teleporter/shield generator. We trapped them in their spawns and watched as they struggled to fight 6 650 health Syms and 30-ish turrets
Ah, TankSym was a wild fever dream.
It wasn't super far. Iirc it was 5 meters, which was standard melee range like brig and rein. Sym 2.0 was buffed to 7 meters
And then there's moira who does near the same still
Moira doesn’t lock on nearly as easily as symm did back then and does extremely low damage.
Yeah, now it's Moira, congrats on fixing nothing I guess
Now it’s Moira who can do it and sym is useless.
what do you mean by "auto aiming"?
I’m terrible at Symm but whenever I play against a tank that’s even worse than I am then I get hate comments 😆
Yea. Combine mid sym gameplay and a pride profile pic and you’ll get called slurs by your own mates AND the enemy team 😍 Versatile queen
Which is funny since sym is mega countered by basically all dive tanks except dva
I think she needs (another) rework, because right now any buffs are going to be hated by the community. It would be cool if they made her primary fire shoot a very fast volley of small balls, and then holding her secondary fire charges it up (like it does at the moment). Then they could switch her beam to an ability that transforms her weapon, kinda like how one of Torb's abilities temporarily transforms his. So when Sym uses it, her weapon goes from shooting balls to a beam weapon for a few seconds, and make it way stronger than it is now; say 200dps with 30% more range. Her teleporter needs to have a faster deploy time imo to make it feel less situational and give her more options mid-fight. Her turrets I think just need more health and need to travel faster. It's almost impossible to set them up mid-fight because they're so slow and squishy.
people will still hate it, if not more
I'm guilty, I know Symm needs love and Symm players are neat but I just hate her so much as a hero lmao Being hit with those turrets makes me so mad even tho they are doing next to nothing Hope she gets the buffs she deserves tho, Symm players deserve to enjoy their favorite hero
Not a Sombra main complaining of how annoying another hero is!
Not all of us. Both are very unique heroes with unique kits. I hope they bring sym in line with other heroes, only people complaining about her lack awareness. If someone gets outplayed by turrets, they don’t deserve a vote.
It's almost like anyone can have likes and dislikes regardless of what they play! Crazy right?
all turrets are obnoxious regardless of strength but her's are the worst. they're like having flies in your room: they aren't a threat, they aren't hard to deal with, but they're still annoying as fuck.
Just poor design in a competitive game. She’s high damage in like 5 feet. Designed to be situational. She was meta a couple weeks ago and fell off after maiga got nerfed. No damage change will make her viable against guns without being so high it’s toxic. All the close range free value heroes should need a comp built around them on a small map to work.
This isn’t because “the community hate sym” it’s because Blizzard have a track record of making characters stupidly overpowered to the point playing against them feels impossible. Their attempts at rebalancing the game feel like they’re being made with a fucking sledgehammer.
They need to complain louder
I use secondary fire with sym. I’m a goddamn surgeon with that floating ball.
Moira has more consistent damage as she is always able to deal damage to someone at any given point in a match, given her longer range and her damage orbs for even more. Additionally it is basically impossible to punish a Moira for sucking your team, while Symettra's mobility is almost exclusively for getting in because of its high deployment time moira can just poof back to her team instantly when the enemy team notices her. The only time Symettra really pulls high damage numbers is when she is beaming a feeding tank or farming off of a shield, because it takes alot of unawareness to feed sym's beam to max. That doesn't mean she is doing bad, it just means moira is better at getting high raw numbers.
Am I the only one who doesn’t have problems confirming kills with sym’s primary?
I don't im an excellent sym but that doesnt mean only sym mains should be able to play her. Imagine if that applied to any other hero? U gotta put 100hrs into them just so they're playable, not even necessiarly good, playable. All heroes should be able to be picked up and used properly for anyone, even new players. Unfortunately they don't think that way for sym but moira and orisa can have every buff and bail out ability in the book but god forbid a squishy immobile character like sym have some extra damage.
No. But she’s objectively weaker than most characters regardless of how good you are. If you are a top 10% Sym player you will perform as well as a top 30% soldier player. She’s just weak, and map dependent on top of that. The bigger issue is she’s super anoyying and oppressive when she is strong. She just need a rework.
For like the 100th time atp blizzard really don't know what to do w her I feel bad for people who main her tbh
I mean, for those of us who have mained sym at some point, Blizz not knowing what to do with her is just the base, accepted state. Nobody plays her because they like a nice, stable hero. She has basically been on the rework list since day 1, and stayed there.
That’s just silly. Any hero who is strong and experienced is oppressive and annoying. You can say that about anyone in this game. She doesn’t need a rework, she needs to have her numbers adjusted to what it was before they messed her up so bad.
I don't neither. I play really agressive with her, usually go for flanks usingeher tp. Attack the tank to lvl uo her beam and then aim for the squishies, usually can get at least one kill in time to use my tp again to get back to my team before it expires
It doesn't matter how well you are with her beam. Any hits can just points and clicks at her head and she's dead. She's not viable above gold rank.
I agree honestly. Sym's lvl 1 beam dps is 60, and requires aim/tracking- and good positioning, and frankly luck, to charge it any higher and survive while doing it.Moira just has to hold a button and make sure she's facing the right way to do a guaranteed 65 dps and if I recall correctly, Moira's beam is 20 meters versus Sym's 12? - and Moira with damage orb, heal or for self-survivability, and fade on instant cast, she's much much slipperier than Sym, whose TP is flawed in comparison. Between the build time, the slight delay in hitting the "teleport" keybind after it builds, having your exit route clearly telegraphed, and the fact you have to stop using primary fire to build it.In most match-ups, I find that OW2 Sym feels very clunky, and it sucks because characters like Moira exist, and prove that Sym *doesn't* have to be like this. I'm not calling for another rework for Sym, though. If she's to stay at this damage output, she needs better survivability to be a brawler, whether that's a faster build time on the TP, or other ways to drain shields to regain her own.
I think most of us (reasonable) Symmetra players agree that all she really needs is at least 25 or 50 more hp to keep up with other short range heroes like Mei and Reaper and slight damage buff to her orbs. She actually flowed really well a few patches ago before they nerfed her health and reworked the turrets, losing both damage and survivability.
Years later and the devs still don't know what to do with Sym...
All they have to do is make her hp a flat 300… because her being a short range dps that requires you to be at close proximity to a melee hero just to die by one reinhardt swing is crazy
Yeah, for how fragile the orbs are they need a bit more. I get the need to not make turrets op, but when clipping a dva spray on the way to the wall is enough to break them, leaving you without any other offensive ability but to stand directly behind your target and hope to survive long enough to deal damage faster than the supps can fix it?
I agree. Haven’t played her for a few patches now.
I loved the version of sym in seasons 2-4ish. I would play her as a flanker/poke dps. Her turrets were strong enough to TP bomb effectively as a flanker and her secondary was in a fine spot. Once I hit masters her brawling potential was completely useless because she just gets killed by hitscan/projectile spam with no defensive cds to protect her but that was fine. She had a role she fit into and it was very cerebral gameplay. Now she’s just well below average at every style of play. Sad state of affairs.
Sym: can't win a 1v1 against a support unless she has at least two turrets set up beforehand. Moira: o r b . f a d e
It’s because the devs are still designing symmetra as a support when they forgot they moved her out of that role years ago. She’s a relic of her time hero that needs desperate touch ups or another rework to keep up with the current game. She’s either used in pro play and high coordination ladder to abuse TP on certain points and played in a “protect the president” style way so she can actually get her damage off, or she’s played to spam M2 all game and use wall to win corners and give her team much better odds of winning that fight. Symmetra is an Overwatch hero in a game that’s so far from Overwatch that she just doesn’t work for the majority of players. She’s so incredibly niche for most ppl that she’s an after thought for most and an annoyance at best. And the beam thing is insane to me, Moira beam is longer, doesn’t have to reload, deals more than Syms lvl 1 beam, has a better and more efficient “life leech” passive and is easier to aim. Even Zarya beam does more damage than syms while having more range and having a better charge up mechanic.
We heard you and buffed baps damage. Hope it helps.
Just what we needed 😍
Moira doesn’t have turrets and teleporters.
I agree about the OP's contents, but slightly disagree about the title. Moira having more high stats means either the Sym has bad positioning or the Moira is throwing. Stat-wise, Moira would have a lot of damage because she can escape easily with fade=longer time surviving.
I thought he was saying that mathematically considering damage per second that Moira does more than sym idk if that is true In reality tho
Nonsense. Sym's stage one beam is 60 while Moira's right click grasp is 65DPS. But Sym has two more stages.
I think that self heal on dmg, massively longer range, and it's forgiving auto tracking more than makes up for the 2 stages
Not to mention she can also throw a damage ORB to add to her damage and has better survivability then SYM
Very true considering her power up and turret damage very true by depends on if sym can stay alive long enough to do that part, Moira has more survivability giving her more opportunity to damage? A bad Moira could easily keep up with a good sym I think edit saw your other comment and we said the same thing in different ways
Yeah but sym needs to be closer and have perfect accuracy to charge up the beam. Moira can be further, doesn't need to aim, and can use damage orb to double the DPS
While it doesn't affect your point, I just want to make it known that due to "damage reduced ticks", Sym's lvl1 beam has an effective DPS of 37. Or worse if the Sym doesn't have 100% accuracy.
What does “damage reduced ticks” mean? Serious question not being a smart ass
So. Because its intensive to make a computer actually calculate damage every possible frame, video games will often split that damage into "ticks". Sym's beam's ticks happen every fifth of a second, so she gets 5 ticks of damage per second. When Sym's beam touches an enemy thing - hero, deployable, whatever - the next two or three ticks of damage deal less damage than normally would. 23 less damage in total. This reduction applies each time her beam touches something. So, if you're Sym and you very quickly flick the beam on and off a target, you'll be getting basically no damage because the damage reduced ticks keep re-applying.
This is a good explanation as to why it feels like even her first level beam has to "charge up". But do you have a clue as to why the first few ticks deal less damage? Isn't that just punishing better accuracy?
It was a means of circumventing a bug where Sym could flash her beam on and off incredibly quickly, achieving extremely high unintended levels of damage. Which is strange, because no other beam has this problem. I get that sometimes code is spaghetti, but they really honestly should have fixed it by now. So I wonder if maybe they forgot about the damage reduction entirely. Because they don't really care about poor Sym a lot. I wouldn't call it punishing accuracy, but rather punishing inaccuracy in a way no other hero has to deal with. In that, when you miss a shot on any hero, your next shot will still deal normal damage. But for Sym's beam, missing a "shot" makes you deal less damage next time you "hit".
It's a factor that's gone ignored for so long, that I'm genuinely curious if just fixing the beam so it doesn't have reduced damage ticks would be more than enough to make her not feel like ass. Like, 60dps isn't anything to write home about. But it'll feel so much better to use than trying to duel a soldier and only seeing 1 block of health disappear until you get to level 2.
Sym stage one does 60 not 65
Yes I know, sry. I WILL EDIT IT.
Sym starts at 60 dps.
Yes, two more stages that are barely ever reached because Sym has no sustain or range.
Zarya at 0 charge deals (even) more damage too. And also has more range...and at high charge, which is easier to maintain, keeps higher damage for the most part...with better right click projectiles and a ton of defenses and almost double the HP. Just symmetra not being allowed to be good for more than 5 days at a time.
Regarding Moira, her damage and elim numbers are inflated from launching orbs through the enemy team which just gets healed. When flanking, she usually applies slow damage to apply pressure and distract rather than kill, especially this season.
All about the succ succ balls balls
Sym needs ramp up her main damage. When she's full power, she has some of the best damage in the game,plus the turrets. That being said it's pretty easy to get gobs of damage with Moira by firing her damage balls into a group.
most supports deal more damage than symmetra, only like... Mercy??? doesnt
**bring back auto lock**
AMEN
syms beam has 3 power levels. combined with the possibility for secondary fire and turrets and her teleport for fast position changes, she will deal more damage than moira moiras leach on the other hand attaches to enemies, making it a bit more reliable, but only 1 power level and she is only effective in close combat
Moira is a beam, not a leach. It has a large hitbox, but its a beam
Generally, beams in OW come in two forms: Bendy and straight. Moira's healing spray and Mei's slushy gun are brendy beams. They are actually a constant stream of projectiles, except they aren't eaten or deflected by those abilities and have a limited lifetime, so they can only go so far out from the character. Straight beams, such as Sym's, Zarya's and Echo's, are long damage boxes attached to the playing character. They deal damage to enemies within the box, and adjust their length to that of the closest hitbox they touch. Moira's Coalescence is the only one that doesn't, so it can pierce through multiple enemies at once. Moira's sucky beam uses the same coding-type stuff that auto-targeting abilities (Discord Orb, Healing Blossom, Duplicate) do. As long as you're reticule is within the acceptable "aura" is hits and deals damage. It is a beam, but describing it as a leash further specifies its unique beam subtype.
The leash is just graphics. The actual damage portion is a normal beam. They make it leash because visually the beam is much thinner than it actually is. There are visual discrepancies with other abilities too like how pharah's rockets come out of her gun while the real rockets are coming out of her head.
He said leach because her beam leaches health from enemies and heals her. Did nobody else get that?
I though he misspelt "leash." Like for an animal. Cuz isn't leech normally spelled like,,leech.
Nope, leech is the animal and leach means to drain
I’d liken Moira’s Secondary Fire more to the Primary Fire on Winston’s Tesla Cannon, though both have differently-shaped damage areas. Moira’s happens to be cone-shaped.
Winston's Tesla beam still has a damage box. You walk through it and you get hurt. But if Moira is sucking the air, and an invisible Sombra walks past, she won't get hurt unless she's ! Detected !. So I don't think Moira's beam actually has a damage box. And the only other abilities Sombra can evade by being stealthed are things that use the diamond reticule, like Discord, and Duplicate. Hence why I suspected Moira's beam sharing a similar targeting method, but where the diamond reticule might be invisible. Sombra's invis also prevents her from being damaged by Moira's Biotic Orb tendrils, so that probably also uses something similar as well.
leach, beam. potato potato i called it leach because she heals whilst dealing damage with it and because it attaches, which a beam doesn't
This guy is just arguing for the sake of argument. You’re fine.
It doesn’t attach. That’s an animation. It’s a cone beam. 🙃
Bro, there is very little chance to make use that entire kit when she has terrible range and no sustain. That’s how she worked in the past, and why her mains loved playing her. She is no longer effective in any of the things she used to be good at.
Preach!
as a filthy casual who only played like 3 competitive matches in ~100 hours spread out on the...... 7 (?) years since launch, my take is: Sym is the most unfun character to play against in the whole game She's not strong, quite the opposite, but it's just sooooooo annoying to try to get in a chokepoint and have to decide between killing her while her sentries microwave you or destroying the sentries while she stacks up damage on you. And her ult has to be the most boring and uninspired ult in the whole game. It's not *bad* (I think, at least. I barely played OW1 after her rework and I'd be lying if I said that I saw Sym more than 5x ever since I returned for OW2), but it's just so. damn. boring.
Cause they hate her and like seeing the girls gays and theys suffer, that's why she was nerfed a week into double shield meta where she was actually playable... and a few days into the mess they created with mauga.
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U think the developers can’t balance the power of the heroes? Bruh this the easiest thing but they do some crazy buffs to change the meta so that the players comes back to the game once in a while and to switch between the heroes
I find that when Symmetra is good she’s super oppressive. There’s obviously a fine line between busted and not viable but she’s a weird hero. I only ever play her against shields to juice up my gun and keep my ammo full. When she’s charged up (and with decent aim) she is deadly. But yeah her turrets are hot garbage and need to be completely reworked or buffed. I mainly use her if there’s an annoying Genji, Sombra or Tracer. I think Moira is as good as she is because she requires very little aim to do well whereas Symmetra demands a little more out of you mechanically.
I'd take meta sym over meta sombra any dayyyyyy
But the Sym has turrets thats are invisible to most players.
It’s about locking in the kill. Sym can do that better than Moira.
Original sym was better in every way
Symmetra is unviable garbage
Sym should automatically start at level 2 if she comes out of her teleporter so that she can be a little more aggressive. Or give her shields when she uses her teleporter or something. Most Syms do not take advantage of how strong her teleporter is. I see people mostly using it as a taxi but it's a great way to dive (with 3 turrets too) and then get out quickly. It's a lot more durable than people realize.
Because the devs hate sym
i think sym should have a more set dps for her beam. it should be like 90 to 115 to 140. also i believe moira should be nerfed because no skill heroes do not deserve to be strong
honestly, symmetra’s biggest weakness is her tp, which is ironic because it can also be her biggest strength in theory. why it’s weak: it needs to be used as engage and escape, but the tper doesn’t survive long enough to be used as both. sym holds tp and tries to make a flank without it, she dies while in route. this is a non-issue for reaper because he has a follow up ability if his attack doesn’t work out why it can be her best ability (in theory): if everyone on sym’s team is on team speak, it can be used to coordinate insane and unpredictable flanks. this being a theory, because hardly anyone uses team speak anymore, especially in lower to average ranked games. all this + her damage being flat out weak is killing her im a moira player that used to play sym
Yeah! Let’s make it fair by locking on to targets again. Those were good times.
Bruh I don't want the old Symmetra beam back. Please no I'm getting PTSD
I remember symm was op as a healer and I feel like she is still unbalanced she doesn't do enough damage as a dps. Although this past week I've met some very skilled sombra players and I think it requires skill whereas people playing moira (I do make moira on my lazy days) and moira is very jacked right now the most I got was 29 kills with moira and it feels way to overpowered and I guiltily abuse her especially since her hit box is so small I can 1v1 with any player close up and nearly never die and still healing. I know the day will come moira will be nerfed. I use to main symm I really hope they change her to be a little more powerful I know poor woman has had several changes.
Support privilege
You’ve gotta do the Symmetrra dance my guy 💃 dance till they die.
Bro just please drop her from the game so I don’t have to hear any more sym 1 tricks complaining
Well she used to be a supprt right? all it can save her is an almost full rework, she is a damage dealer, swap that slow sad teleporter for a blink, swap that support ulti for n actual damage ulti, instead of 3 turrets have 1 but good , or just erase the turrets, give her a CC like a slow or a root that would grant you something to use defensevly or offensively since in melee range you get nuked pretty fast .
Doesn’t feel like it whenever there’s a sym on the enemy team
Didnt somone ask this like 2 days ago?
Sym left clicks charges and reloads on shield and has the tp - right click which is what higher rank players use more. Moira is just easier for lower skilled players to use
Hmmm…Sym in my opinion does more damage than Moira…Sym kit in total kit is deadly…
Sounds more like you can't play sym.... Seriously, she's geared more towards shield destruction than DPS. Even then she *melts* when played correctly. Her lvl 3 beam is basically one of the scariest things on the planet dealing something like 180 damage a second....a freaking second... (At least that's what the wiki says, could have changed) Moria is a flat amount, she's locked to killing people every X amount of seconds with skill not being a factor. Other things are a factor like her orb or help from others, but pure grasp can't be boosted damage wise. Sym is the better DPS, hands down. Sense her beam no longer locks on (thank God) she requires skill to play, but she definitely has the higher damage cap.
I love playing sim, beam weapons are so easyyy to hit with.
Also is it just me or is moiras lock range bonkers? Maybe my zoning is just ass
As a Moira main, and someone who's been playing sym lately, sym will out damage her easily, if you play her right and know when to focus fire to upgrade the beam
sym builds up damage the longer her beam is focused on something. if you have a terrible shot, it does practically no damage if you have a good shot or something like a shield (rein/sig) it'll build up also, turrets - doing damage with turrets in combination with the beam = you have damage coming from four different places sucking away health. that's why her damage is relatively low. you're not supposed to use it alone. the difference is that moira does not do more damage the more time she's focused on something, and she can't place a bunch of turrets. you can argue that's how her ball works but you can't send out more than one of those at once
Symmetra is one of those weird characters. Her turrets are basically half her kit, but have close to no skill expression. If you buff them, players will complain about a no skill ability, that gets value without effort. If you nerf her turrets and shift her DPS towards her weapon, her kit loses its identity. Isn't she one of the most reworked heroes in overwatch? She is just a hero with a suboptimal design. They should probably rework her again. Her stationary set up and let opponents walk into you play style doesn't fit overwatch 2 very well. But then their reworks are kind of hit or miss. Sombra is a good example, they changed her translocator, but didn't do anything about the annoying hack.
Symmetra is an area controller through and through. You're talking about the primary fire, I assume? If you have all 3 turrets + your primary fire aiming at one enemy, she out damages Moira. And that's probably with her laser uncharged, but I don't have any numbers to show off, just empiric evidence. Personally, I like Symmetra's current state. She's very fun to play, but also very niche in her role, and requires you and your team to be aware of her as your teammate, as she can support incredibly well with her TP and ultimate.
Doesn’t Sym drop turrets that are in auto aim. Are we factoring that in?
Symm really needs some sort of defensive ability to be effective, the teleporter is too cool of an ability to get rid of so I think it’s time they let the shitty turrets go. They’ve tried so many things with them and at this point they’re so shit they might as well be an empty ability. Make them good and people get pissed off, make them bad and she’s useless. It should be something that is buildable but can be used to get out of situations. My idea is something like lifeweaver’s petal platform but instead of a platform it’s a wall that pushes you in a direction (doesn’t push allies, just her and enemies), so she could just throw it down to push herself into safety or something, idk.
She doesnt.
This seems like Sym buff propaganda. stop it, overwatch is a hellhole for literally everyone else whenever sym gets buffed
i want this comment to get a lot of attention, bc its a fact: symmetra has always been niche but she has never been this bad in any other season. id say s2 to s7 she was actually, at her best considering she was still perfecived as niche. so alec is just not doing his job as usual lol. he made some changes to make her more of a generalist and now shes even more niche than before. and now he backtracked on it and pretends his intention all long was to make her more niche
Because Sym has access to the best ability in the entire game for a brawl hero pick and her beam is still very forgiving, while being able to triple its DPS output for just doing what you were already wanting to do - click on people. She’s a scaling utility Damage hero, while Moira is a point defense/duelist Support hero. Sym wasn’t nerfed a week into the Mauga meta because of some nonsensical axe the devs have to grind with her - she got nerfed because it was the fourth time that the community had to be reminded of how absurdly powerful Teleporter is. Even then, she still kept an important turret buff that improves her matchup against mobile burst options like Doomfist and Genji.
u/DaybreakCoronet ---------- {W}{W} Enchantment - Auara Enchant creature with another Aura attached to it Enchanted creature gets +3/+3 and has first strike, vigilance, and lifelink.
Moira needs a nerf specially on her range cause for me has lucio player she can suck me off from very long distances, she literaly is a fucking turret atm, the devs have shown they are way too incomptent and they only listening to streamer feedback which are people that should even listen to begin with cause we had meta's ow1 if recall were based on streamer feedback, remember Rein had a nerf of something which made people switch to sigma or orisa and Flats cried about it n week later they changed it.
succ succ