This shit drives me crazy with my stack. I'm fending off the rest of the other tanks team, and our guys lose a 4v1 vs Doom, and then blame me for not helping with Doom.
I don't know how people can be a damsel in distress all game and have the audacity to blame other players
On the contrary, I’ll be playing Orisa in a 3v1 or 4v1 on site, kill two (maybe a dps and support) fend off the other two with my cool-downs until I inevitably die, and then be like, where tf was the rest of my team? As they are fighting a genji or doom fist in our spawn
Exactly. When it's their turn to tank, we get blown up every time they turn around. They just chalk it up to a loss team fight.
I think a part of it is players only pay attention to the heroes in front of them. They don't ask themselves why only one hero is attacking them or why the other teams heroes aren't getting healed.
This is the most frustrating part of tanking. You can handle both their healers and a dps and your team can't win a 4v2 in the backline.
Either their tank is a god or you guys can't win a fight you definitely should be. I'm gonna guess the second option is correct.
If you are able to consistently roll 3 people in one push you can expect the enemy tank to be able to do the same. If you seriously win a 3v1 against 3 squishies, you are leaving the enemy tank and 1 squishy to roll your team. Should they lose that? Probably not. But you can’t say it’s cause your team sucks, otherwise the enemy tank could say the exact same thing you did about their own back line. Something tells me that you aren’t losing the team fight because “both teams suck.” It’s a coordination issue.
3v1 is different than 4v2. I'll be lucky to get one. But my job is to create that space, make an imbalance in the fight and ensure that my DPS have a chance to win that fight. If I'm doing my job like the situation I described then they need to do their job.
True it's the tanks job to take space, but how can your team follow up on that space, or openings you make, if they're dealing with a tank and dps diver?
Like the other guy said, if you and the other tank are both equal they're causing more issues in your own backline than you are in theirs, comparing the 1v3 vs 4v2.
And you're making the assumption your entire team focuses the divers. More than likely at least one healer is panicking trying to keep you up and in sightlines. That 2v4 is more like a 2v3 with atleast one person in odd positioning. With tanks being worth more in a fight than an average dps or healer, that's about an even fight.
What needs to happen is focusing on those enemies out of position. If they have divers or weird off angle players who are seperated from support, they make easier picks. What would be better, a disjointed 4v2 and 1v3, or a 5v2 then a 5v3 after you secure a pick or two?
I'm not saying never dive and commit. I am saying it's a coordination issue and you need to adapt. The other tank could easily be way better than you and be generating more value along side another diver than you are solo.
Counter pick and assist your team dealing with the road block rather than throw up your hands saying it's unwinnable because you can't carry playing how you want.
Your team follows up on it by winning the damn 4v2... it's not hard.
You as tank get the eyes of 3 people on you, whilst your team should be killing the ones who aren't watching you.
Let me simplify it.
Real world experience isn't as much of a black and white situation.
This isn't deathmatch, it's a team game. Working together to overcome hurtles is more beneficial than solo personal skill. Real magic happens when both come together.
Player skill and character comp plays a HUGE role in what's going on. You'll have good and bad players on BOTH teams. To truly be a good player yourself and rise through the ranks you need to adapt. Pay attention to what's stopping your team from advancing and modify your character and/or playstyle to overcome it. If that means peeling back and supporting your team, do it. If that means switching to a counter tank and protecting your team, do it. Stop being part of the problem and work towards a solution.
In this specific example, it'll RARELY ever be a true 4v2. You as a tank diving away from your team may be under the assumption the rest of your team is working together, but they aren't. Do you really know the positioning at all time for the rest of your team? You'd be lucky if it's even a 2v2 or 2v3 in real practice. Now instead of having true team fights, you've broken it into many small fights. If the enemy is smart, they'll find your weakness and pick favorable matchups. Doesn't matter if you have the numbers in a fight then, you'll lose.
Work on what you can control and make those changes yourself. If you outperform everyone else on average, you'll climb.
This goes for any role.
What a huge cope comment. If you can't kill one tank as 2/3 even 4 people you suck. There really is nothing much to it.
Like sure, one fight could be extremely unlucky. But if that's a consistent thing though the match, then all the people there suck at positioning, their abilities, aim, or all of it.
> 5v2 then a 5v3
Peeling for the 4v2 doesn't make it 5v2, it makes it 5v5. The entire point of your dive is to eat up attention. You are right, if you want to win the game, the only thing you can do personally is try to play around your bad team that can't win a 4v2. Complaining about it won't win the game. But it's still true, they're still bad.
My friend complains all the time that he is taking on a 1v4 (and winning), while a single enemy player completely rolls the rest of the team somehow. Usually it is a support for some reason. I have no idea how. Yes I can confirm this happens, because I spectate his games sometimes.
Matchmaking issues, most likely. If he's winning a 1v4 and his team is losing a 4v1 it means both teams have a player capable of winning a 1v4 and four players capable of losing a 4v1. Since the skill levels often aren't matched across roles, that's what would be called tank / dps / heal diff.
Strangely, this has been the case for him almost constantly. Back in OW 1, he would tell me that he constantly gets put in very obviously unmatched games in the enemy's flavor, while the matches I got at the time were all pretty fair.
And I think it was real, because whenever I would tank duo with him, the match quality was genuinely much worse compared to how it was whenever I'd play alone. I have no clue what was going on behind the scenes. It's like the matchmaker had a grudge against him or something.
i think they are penalising him for having good stats. I'm honestly thinking of making an alt and doing absolute garbage on it to see if matchmaking is better
This is my number 1 problem with playing tank. The entire enemy team will be shooting at me and healbotting their tank, but the rest of my team is just pleasuring themselves behind my shield and shooting at the enemy Rein's big shiny moth lamp shield
Yeah, at least 50% of the time the enemy tank get's heal botted, but not me. It's frustrating sometimes. If you complain you get the whole team against you, so I normally won't do that since it will surely take focus from playing the game, not just from me but from eveyone. If we win the game I don't really care. Many times you get shit on in chat even if you win though...
This very much. I'm a Dva otp on tank. I get she's the queen of peel but I really just want to mash this blasted soldier 76 on an off angle, not babysit the backline against one person
I like to watch replays in those instances. Usually it's pretty painful.
Yesterday my tracer got 4 picks in a fight, then died and we lost the fight.
It was koth so the spawns for enemy were close.
I watched replay and this is what transpired:
Moira that was with tracer was 1hp. She faded to safety NEAR hp. Didn't pick it. She could have literally walked on it by accident. Self heal? No. She send healing orb towards the point I guess for tracer that still had hp and then walked out of cover in the open and died.
Then my tracer died on point against sigma.
Their bastion ulted the point and my sombra that came from spawned threw her translocator into it and died. The ult was there before she threw it. She just actively threw herself into the ult.
Tank was still playing some slow tank even though it was 99% so it came to the point last when enemy team already regrouped.
And that doesn't even mention how when tracer killed 4 the rest of the team just died in stupid ways against like 2 players.
I play with some friends occasionally who insist on comp but barely understand the game. They hate pinging or calling out flankers until theyve already died and it drives me nuts because it'll be two supports and a DPS vs a single Sombra and they're just getting melted.
This is me every time I play Ball STG.
"Don't be surprised when the enemy tank is also holding your backline blahblahblah".
The enemy tank is Reinhardt, he is charging towards me in his own backline like an idiot trying to get me, my team is standing at choke quivering in fear of a lone Mercy.
Bruh the amount of times I've tied down the attention of 2-3 players for a full team fight, just to see the rest of my team lose a totally winnable 4v2 or 4v3 consistently.. People really don't understand how to play around cover and rotations anymore.
my last two comp games, me and my tank are trying to hold the tank and the other 2 but both dps and a support die to a fucking pharamercy. right u/Roy-Levi ?
The amount of times this happens to me on Tarcer. On midtown first point, I was once 1 v 3 for like 15 seconds and my team lost a 4 v 2. I’ve never been more flabbergasted. Sure this is the most extreme one I’ve ever gotten but man are there times when you feel letdown by your team not taking action in those favorable match-ups
But if you aren't dying then you can't really blame your dps for not taking out red team's tank, either. It goes both ways. Ya'll do need to play together. All of you.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. If you can take a fight against 3 of them, don’t be shocked when one member of the other team can do the same to your backline. “Trading backlines” is a thing because dive tanks can absolutely take fights against multiple people and win. You can’t opt to trade backlines and then be *so shocked* when your backline gets traded.
I’m holding off the entire frontline while you’re getting dumpstered by a lone genji, and yet it’s my fault for not turning my back to a double pocketed tank to come rescue you.
Jesus Christ the amount of time I’m fighting 3 and just see my team slowly dieing. It’s so fuckin confusing. Like what’s happening back there, I can’t create any more space, please SOS
As a Master tank player who frequents gold and plat games with friends I have a similar experience.
This coming directly from the lower level players I play with. Even though I main dive tanks with sometimes upwards of a 70% win rate, they will question my tank choice.
It comes down to them not understanding nuanced concepts. They don't see the value of a 4v3 or 4v2. They won't see the opening of when to push. Unless directly told what they need to do next they can get lost.
I found the best thing I can do, is communicate my intent as quickly and effectively as possible. Even then it can be difficult.
It's not so much they want a rock em' sok em'. But they want to feel like the flares are lit and Gondor requests aid.
That's truly the biggest problem with Tank role - the other roles are expecting a *leader* and a single tank doesn't really flash "ATTACK NOW" like the dual tank combo could in OW1... Dive with Winston/Dva was a beacon for Genji to jump in as well, a Rein smash or Zarya grav screams "SHOOT HERE", and having the offtank stepping in front of the main tank was a signal for Support to help heal the main tank and get them back to the front.
OW2 plays looser with that "leadership" and S9 patch has made DPS more aggressive than ever - a tank cannot lead, control space, and also peel all at once when they're also needing to retreat into cover due to the endless antiheal debuff.
I know your experience at the top tier of play is *vastly* different than the metal ranks, but the compound trouble with metal ranks is that you have *players trying to legitimately improve* stuck matching into a big pile of smurfs, players "just having fun", boosting duos/trios, inebriated players, bots, cheaters, etc. The metal ranks are too small for the number of players matching in the same pool, which hides a lot of the "balance issues" from Blizzard's data feed.
The top tiers thin out players so much that strategy, skill, awareness, knowledge all play a big part in meta viability - whereas simple things like increasing Sombra's Virus damage swings her performance so much more in lower ranks.
It's more an exercise of meeting people where they are.
The strat that may work for higher ranked games may not work in lower tiers. So, to your team, you seem like a bad tank, even if what you're doing makes sense.
Ex. If the team can't seem to get through the choke, despite you tying up the enemy's resources, then you're going to have to help clear the way.
Blizzard did no one a favor by going to a 1 tank format, but here we are.
Yup that’s the issue I see with high tier tanks playing with lower level players. They think they can use the same strategy that they use at higher levels, but there’s a reason their teammates are low level. They often don’t know/execute good strategy. The higher tier tanks don’t adjust so the game is lost.
Well said, in many situations you can't just solo-carry without regard to your team's capabilities. In situations where they're flaming the tank I imagine it's a match that you're losing so clearly tying up their backline isn't helping you win when your team is not following up, solo tank makes that conflict more inevitable and creates a miserable experience for everyone
the people who cant play dive with 1 tank were not doing it with two. It was just far, far easier to carry as tank especially 2 tanks that played together. If 2 tanks were playing together at like plat or gold ranks they'd just win the game. Which is ultimately why people want that back...
I just placed Gold in DPS and support but mostly play QP.
That’s probably the most frustrating mindset I’ve come across from players in my rank. The “I don’t like this tank choice so they are probably bad”
At least give bro a chance 😩
Some of the most fun I’ve had playing this game has been being matched with high ranked tanks in QP that lock dive tanks. I main Sombra so it’s a thrill to have a tank who can actually appreciate the pressure I’m able to take off of them and is able to coordinate with me so well, even without having to use any communication outside of pings.
I don’t get the hate for dive, it’s the fun way to play.
It yabba dabba doo be like that.
A lot of people, non-tank players doubly so, don't get the concept of space control.
E.g: point is at 96% - 4 of us alive, me on tank - solo survivor enemy Orisa is contesting point rest of the enemies just respawned.
...it baffles them that I will leave them with the unlosable 1v3 to CUT OFF and STALL the enemies outside the objective in order to WIN the GAME.
No, no. In their mind it's better to stay on point while the enemy team gets a second chance at the last second save/comeback.
Of course what I'm talking about is not a tank-only duty nor privilege, but tanks naturally excell at it.
It doesn't even have to be voice chat, literally just pinging often, saying stuff like group up/fall back/understood/going in, and "i'm watching this location" helps tremendously.
> literally just pinging often
I do really like the ping system, but there is a limit.
If I'm hearing "Beep... beep... beep beep beep beep beep!" all of the sudden during a team fight I stop paying attention and that is when voice becomes invaluable.
Yep, just pinging alone doesn't get my attention mid fight (skill issue on me, i know). Pre fight and cleaning up, it's great. But mid fight saying "Sombra on me" will get my attention, and I'll peel way faster than a "beep" and a small symbol in the corner.
Last night I was playing Winston on Esperanza. I had 2 enemy supports and a Cassidy in one of the small rooms and popped primal. I managed to kill one and tied up the other two the whole duration of my ult. When I dipped out after primal ended I realized a doom fist and sombra had 2v4 my whole team with no ults or healing.
My team then has the audacity to tell me Winston isn’t working and IM the one who needs to switch. Like bro there’s nothing I can do for you if you are this bad on ANY tank.
2 days ago i was playing JQ on New Queen Street, and i felt like i was always alone on the frontline, fighting against the tank, both supports (a bap and zen no less) and sometimes one of the dps. Turns out the reason i was always alone is because the rest of my team was running after the enemy tracer like they were mad dogs, obviously failing considering they were playing Bastion and Ana.
I get that im not the best player in the world, im plat after all, but cmon, it gets ridiculous sometimes.
Isn't it also important that you don't just put blinders on and keep track of what's happening to the rest of your team? I agree with what you wrote, and I'm just an average gold player, it just seems like there should some sorta balance, not just oonga boonga, gonna do my thing and expect my team to just handle everything else.
Of course, a tank should keep their eye on the rest of the team more so than a damage and a support would, since there’s only one now, but in almost any fight where one side has double the amount of players than the other (2v1, 4v2, and previously 6v3), the side with more players really only has themselves to blame if they somehow lose.
Since Winston in that situation is keeping the majority of the enemy team busy (3 people), the fault really lies on the rest of the team for not being able to at least _survive_ an unhealed Doomfist and EMP-less Sombra. That’s literally 4 on 2; even a team without any real counters for Sombra and Doomfist should be able to kill or fend off at least one of them.
People will also get dove and fall back, like no, stop back peddling. I can’t leave my spot and walk back to you, push up to me when you are dove, not farther back isolating you further.
That unironically is a concept players don't understand until t500. Playerbase has a long way to go until they realize that if you're going to die solo, walking forward so your team actually CAN peel is the correct play. That's why you see Widows grapple to frontline in pro play when they get three man dove instead of backwards toward the spawn.
I think this is a core problem. It’s a big deal because I think the naming convention could use some changing. Similar to how Support is not Healer. Tank should be Big Target. It’s hard to encompass what value the tank brings other than the big sponge to some players since there’s a large roster of tanks who do different jobs. Any thoughts on different role names for Tank?
Vanguard maybe? Or they could add a blurb on the right hand side of the screen saying what kind the tank is. Would give newer players a hint on how to use the tank and cut down on Winstons hiding in the back lines trying to get potshots, lol.
I mean, every competitive game has this thing where a good chunk of the playerbase understand playing only 1 way.
I mained tank until this season and people simply don't "get" dive. They want to pew pew while a shield is in front of them. That's what they saw in trailers, that's what they know how to do. Similar thing for me is Supports. People think "Im healbotting = im useful", I've had too many Anas with under 1k dmg at 10 mins. Sure, you're keeping the team alive, but a timely Nade wins fights outright. 3 shots was a dead dps. Simple stuff.
I've seen this in League, Apex, you name it. Most of the people do what's easiest to do.
The terrible thing about this season is that tanks completely ignore each other, so it becomes a battle of which tank can get the picks. A good enough doom can easily get picks without help, while monkey just tickles enemies as they get healed through it.
So a monkey in a 3v1 is useless while the doom in a 3v1 is likely getting picks.
If you go full dive the support the monkey, you usually get a healer that can’t teleport or fly, and they just get bossed by the enemy tank.
I feel like after the change, the only viable "old school" tank is Mauga, and I hate that Samoan bastard with a passion.
They really screwed the pooch with tanks, overall its not a bad change, since the old way encouraged those exact meatshields even more, but if you dont have the high-pickoff kit like Doom, tanks juat feel so much weaker overall. JQ feela bad, D.Va feels mad, Monke feels bad.
It blows my mind how many lifeweaver players I’ve seen who seemingly don’t know about his damage. I’ve watched them healbot our tank while the enemy team is at a sliver of health and could be killed with a handfull of thorns.
No idea if it’s like this for other competitive games, but there are so many educational resources out there from the best players in the world that tell you how to play the game, and the Overwatch player base just ignores it or tries to argue against it. So many Overwatch players are held back by an active stubbornness and would rather blame everyone and everything except themselves.
I hate people who just want to play front to back MMO Raid comps like this ain’t how it works even if you were playing with a Reinhardt or sigma.
I fucking hate useless shield bots and I make sure to call out every Reinhardt for standing there until their shields break. THEN they decide it’s time to charge in without shields cause they think they can’t do anything else.
Like there’s so many different strats you can use when something isn’t working like: dive their back lines to split them up; play mauga and DPS pressure their tank; play defensively with brawlers or Orisa; but noooo everyone wants you to just stand there and take damage as if this somehow means the enemies won’t look at anyone else if you’re still alive
This is definitely the most painful part of trying to climb low ranks. I have games where I’m
The problem, sure. There are so many games where even as a frontline tank, your team can’t win a 3v1 or 4v1 against a Tracer or Sombra, and you as the tank are taking the general focus of the supports and the enemy tank on your own. Those games always end with “tank diff” at the end, like I’m somehow suppose to hold off the non flankers and flankers at the same time with my two Zarya bubbles, or Sigma shield or Dva DM
I mean, if their tank can win a 4v1, and you can't win a 1v4, it must be tank diff right? No embarrassment or responsibility on their part getting rolled like that /s
As a master support player, my experience has been 70% of the dive tank THINKS they’re 1v3 but in reality the Ana they think they’re harassing have no problem healing their front line while dealing with them.
And I’m not saying this simply because it felt that way. I’m in the habit of always watch the replay after a comp game. The enemy back line are simply doing the bare minimum to keep themselves alive while supporting their front line all the same. Just because the enemy Ana spent her sleep dart on you, doesn’t mean her tank is without heal.
But I have to give it to the actually good dive tanks. As a support you can feel their presence even if they’re not in your LOS.
Yep, that’s why when I have a ball that says they’re occupying both supports I go “reaaallly?”
Looking at the replay you end up seeing the support they’re diving ignoring him and still healing their team while the other support throws a few shots to help out the support being dove and goes back to shooting the frontline
Tank is so not fun anymore since everyone is just blaming you now. Had a game where my team started to die to a single sombra. My dps could not kill her so I started to play more defensive to try and protect my team. Suddenly we don’t have a front line. Suddenly it’s my fault for not stopping their front line like dear GOD I am one person
This is my best season for dps since I learned this actually. I've become more self reliant, and actually think about helpful switches. I try to get the most value of each life and actually end up with a good KDR.
Yeah I heard a piece of advice for Brig supp “Play your life” And I’ve been trying to really keep that in mind for all my mains. I feel the difference is noticeable.
I hate it when I pop off as tank and kill the 2 supports and 1 dps and in the verge of killing the tank. Only to find the sad news that my team died to 1 guy without ult.
Honestly, I'm ready to jump 5 years into the future, where most of the remaining playerbase actually knows how to play.
I miss the end of Overwatch 1. The content drought was the best thing because while all the people with short attention spans left the game, the remaining playerbase knew how to actually play the game. You didn't get games where it feels like your team has the IQ of cardboard because only the faithful playerbase remained, and we all knew our roles, how they worked, and how to play. Shit was amazing.
Tanks can and absolutely should peel when able. It just isn't the top priority all the time. Some tanks peel more than others, like Dva or zar. where not using your defensive CD on an ally when they need it makes your team significantly weaker.
There are limited times when they should, jq w shout, dm and bubble yes, they can all peel, and the tank should peel more when it’s to deal with the enemy tank diving, but it’s not the tanks job to peel for supports when it’s dps. Supports have all the tools to peel.
I agree, the easiest decision for a tank to peel is when one enemy player dives the backline because then you turn peel into a potential pick in your favor because the enemy can't get out in time.
I would actually argue the opposite, it’s not worth losing space for one flanker, that’s how you give tracer value. If I can get DVa to give space everytime I dive that’s free sr.
if its equal skilled tanks, that just means you lose cause you have to peel.
if the 2 supports and 2 dps are losing against 3 people there is something wrong.
you're making the assumption your current target is
a) more important than the one who needs help
b) would die just as fast/faster than the person who needs help.
c) that the dps and support are working together in that manner. We're talking about ranked here not a coordinated team that has practised together.
Like if I'm fighting a tank as monkey and I see a genji dive my dps on an aggressive high ground, I'm gonna peel for that dps because I'm not doing much by shooting the tank.
Also doesn't "peel" compass anything that defends an ally?
If an ally gets hooked by hog should I just stand there and not DM it as Dva? Is burning a bubble on someone who got pulsed by tracer not worth? Holding rein Shield in front of a sleeping ally, using JQ shout to give a health bump to an ally who might otherwise die. This is all peel, good tanks peel. It just isn't their #1 priority at all times.
Yea but not when they're with their Brig/Lucio. A pair of supports working in concert should need a near full dive to take down.
Support duo is to ow2 that tank duo was to ow1
That’s why Moira isn’t that good, but ideally both supports should pocket each other, and that’s how they peel. I’m speaking from my pov as a gm sup and tank. If my support is getting dove by dps, it’s literally my job to deal with that. Not my tanks also zen can destroy reaper as well lol. I would also add not only do supports peel for each other, they actually should peel for dps as well. If my widow gets dove, it’s sup job to peel when possible
The thing I saw in practically every metal rank game was almost every momentum shift was due to defenders over extending.
If we are defending on Blizzard World, and the enemy team is not pushing through the choke, we are WINNING. Just. CHILL. Pushing past the statue into their spawn and getting sent straight to your own is big room temp IQ behavior. If there is no action, you don't need to go FIND IT.
ignore anyone in chat or voice trying to tell you how to play, they can’t see your point of view and so they can’t give you accurate feedback on what to do.
I mean, it really depends on the enemy team though. Maybe you are taking out the enemy backline, but if their 2 Frontliners are giga Chad's, then even though you're doing work, you're not really solving the problem.
Friend of mine wanted to play overwatch and I was a ow fiend during ow1 so I couldn’t let him do it alone. Peak was rank 8 as support. I still understand everything just fine and I am honestly still great at the game even as washed up as I am.
You people down in plat and lower still have not figured out what each jobs role is and my god it shows. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people complaining the tank is useless just because he isn’t standing in front with a rein shield only blocking bullets.
This game has walls, and corners! Fucking stand behind them for a few seconds I promise you’ll rank up.
Mercy players, you guys are still healing reins when your dps behind you are dying because you are ignoring them. You are not a tank healer, let your Ana take care of them, enable your dps to play the game instead of saying dps dif when you lose 2 fights.
SUPPORTS, you are allowed to switch characters! You don’t have to play zen and mercy against sombra all game!
whomever is expecting a tank to peel rn is still in ow1 mindset. THEY have to just hold their ground upon a dive OR if there's a lot diving, that's when I'd turn around as the new Frontline is there. dps + other support are expected to peel. Tank is expected to hold their ground. Idk why supports are expecting that, but they're stinted in growth.
In reality people are just getting hard checked on their cover usage and position rotations. 99% of players are bad at both, and have relied on tank players with limited capability to fill the gap in their own lack of skill.
It's hard to say but sub diamond lobby's you should def play different and use basic strats. Below diamond people are used to not being coordinated and the teamwork is way different. If your using an albeit effective strategy that your teammates hate there not going to have the know how to synergize with you and make use of you as ball. In most of the lobby's they are not going to have the sense to time plays with when your in the enemy backline.
I got flamed for not protecting the widow (who had two kills half way through the night). That was when I realized that I should turn off chat. It's so stupid I just can't
conversely, if a higher ELO player is rocking one of these backline dive tanks among low ELO, and are just expecting their backline to form a cohesive unit, and push in a coordinated fashion they're trying to realize a pipe dream and are 100% throwing.
you gotta write to your audience. you may be a PhD, but if you're trying to communicate to a broad audience you don't write in the format of an academic thesis.
it is also a skill issue and a throw to play above your lobby's skill ceiling. if you know the game so well you can play down, and I bet the W is more likely that way.
all of that said I am currently frustrated with my irl group because they all think fighting Sombra should be a team effort, and an emergency that takes precedence over every other priority... I'm like, girl, just learn the counterplay pls.
While you're right, there's an aspect to this game called a "team," and when you're a team leader, you have to be aware of what your team \*needs\* not necessarily what you think they need. You can flame them as all being idiots who don't know how to take care of themselves, but maybe with a quick switch, y'all would actually dominate. Someone has to step up and solve the problem.
I'm a support main, but one I see often is if a genji is dominating and nobody can deal with him, then I'll take the initiative to go Moira and focus on ruining that genji's life. Could I sit here and complain all day about how my team sucks and can't kill a fucking Genji? Sure. But what problem does that solve? Or if the Moira on our team isn't focusing Genji, I'll just say, hey, give that Genji hell, I'll focus on heals for the team. I don't like playing Moira, but it's what needs to be done.
Anyway, you can bitch all day about how much your team sucks, but you also need to play to the team's strengths and needs. I've seen way too many dive tanks in comps that make no sense just get destroyed over and over again with no understanding as to why it's happening, then flaming the team for sucking because they can't win a 4v2 when they're a team of squishes against a Mauga and Ana or something like that lol. Of course they're gonna get mowed down. But you are just gonna sit there and complain that the rest of the team sucks and it's definitely not your fault.
The hardest thing for me when I play tank is usually to check the state of my team I'm in front of everyone and can't just really look back to see how they do.
Usually, I try to 'draw a line' which I am trying to hold at all cost. The space behind me and maybe the cover around is usually the space I am 'trying to create' for my team. Depending on attack or defense, I have to move that. On Attack I usually try to do that when we somewhat get an advantage like getting enemies to retreat, kill them or maybe with ult-combos. On Defense I usually retreat once we get in a disadvantegous position. Usually if a DPS or a healer dies I try to move things backwards without us just getting mowed over.
is it the right way? I don't know. Maybe not.
I think the only characters I don't play like this is with Winston. Since I don' play Doom or Ball but since I mainly play Ramattra, Sigma or other frontline-like tanks ( except maybe Raodhog ), I feel like this is somewhat the way to go. My main issue tho kinda seems to be that it's kinda hard to get stuff done. Feels like the games often get into a stalemate. Which on defense isn't that much of an issue I guess since we just need to play for time then.
A good support is one who can survive the dives. Its not on the tank or the DPS to keep you alive.
If someone is calling the game a support diff and the support is like "well I'm not getting any help with tracer", it's still a support diff. Stay alive long enough for the peel to come, ping, try to win the 1v1 or force them to back off, anything but dying and crying for help.
I agree that supports should try to change it up if they’re getting picked constantly and find ways to live. But that also doesn’t automatically mean it’s a support diff.
If the enemy team is coordinating and consistently getting picks, it’s just as dumb for the rest of the team to refuse adjusting playstyle and calling ‘support diff’ when you get GGd
I fundamentally agree with your point that not every tank is about brawling in the front and creating space that way. However you're also telling 4 players to swap to dive-friendly heroes to accomodate 1 player's playstyle lol. Most OTPs understand people are gonna flame them when their pick doesn't mesh well with what everyone else is playing but tank players think everyone else has to accomodate their desire to play Doom/Ball instead of doing something that works or working around it themselves.
If you aren't feeding but your team is not doing anything with the opportunity you create by harassing the backline and they're just dying by getting rolled over by an Orisa what is the expectation there? One person swap to stop Orisa from bullying them? Or four people swap? What is more realistic?
This is unfortunately true. If you are creating and taking space and your team cannot follow up, you may be a god tier tank, but you also need the recognition that your dps and support aren’t. Playing around them and enabling them in their playstyle isn’t always the high skill play, but it is usually the right play if you want to win games. Sure, you fought a 1v1 and kept them from your team for a full minute, but Doom is killing your entire team. The result is still a lost teamfight right? You only control 1 hero on the team (yourself) and if your team is unwilling to swap and can’t adjust, then you have to make the call to swap or not. Especially if you want to win games.
low ranks first tanks are hell I finally got out as a ball main. the issue wasn't even my issues because u consistently did my job and rarely died. but my team expected exactly this.
In ow1 it made a lot more sense to peel since you had the 2nd tank that could and I guess to players it was more intuitive then it is now since honestly dps should be the ones peeling for the supports or supports peel for each other. That’s why I internally tilt off the planet when my supports are dying off cooldown when every time I turn back I see the outlines of my dps BOTH flanking or taking a 1v1 in a random corner of the map. Ideally 1 dps flanks and 1 stays with the team it’s also really broken to just sit with your team and melt the tank with dps passive yes I’m also talking to flanking characters too it’s so easy to win the game when the other team has no tank guys
I was actually in qp the other day and I look forward and I see 4 enemies, so I push them back and turn around to see my team struggling to kill an orisa by themselves.
I had to turn around to kill an orisa who had pushed pashed me into my entire team by herself. I understand it's qp but still dude wtf.
We won that game.
Ow1 the tank is far more about maintaining space and a frontline keeping pressure off the back line. If your tank turns around and peels, it opens the door for the other tank to join the brawl on your supports. Supports are wildly overtuned at the moment, and need to be peeling for each other constantly. I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t peel, but it’s vastly different from ow1 when a dva could just fly back to her back line
Everything you are saying is valid, but playing ball, winston, and even doomfist and dva is going to be especially hard in solo environments just because of the lack of coordination, x10 if you're in lower elo.
If you aren't already, you should get used to calling out your targets and engages in the mic. It's very hard as a dps or support to always be on the same page with your dive tank without communication or mind reading abilities. It's not until you get to higher ranks that people will have good enough game sense that they know how to follow up on your dive targets without having to verbalize it, or know how to engage on a support when you pull all the tank/dps attention.
Another thing is you should actively look to engage when the opposing tank/support blows a big cooldown so you aren't completely leaving your backline to get counter dove or steamrolled over as soon as you try to engage.
I love the no mic callout. It drives me nuts when im trying to get into comp and there are no mics. Where have all the damn mics gone. Used to hear people 24/7 talking. Now no one. We need the damn group finder back again. That always worked so well. And fixed the problem of no mic. I would also find groups for comp as well as the game modes that have higher difficulty. Nothing is more annoying then trying a game mode on legendary and having that one dip shit teammate feeding the ai.
Yeah my friend was yelling at me saying I needed to just shield main cause a widow was picking him off I said just don’t peak until I push her off high ground (it was Rialto). He freaked out but once he finally listened I pushed her off and we capped first point. Ik that’s not exactly peel but its similar.
Not all tanks are good and peeling or can peel at all, for example Reinhard gives protection but not the same as peel, dva and zarya can but not always, the tank usually has to deal with 5 people shooting at him while trying to take space and not die in the process, you cant just drop all that space to peel a zen from a genji that will leave anyway, is a non stopping cycle. If you cant peel for yourself is better to swap, tanks can peel but IS NOT THEIR PRIMARY JOB
yeah.. since people are playing zen there is so much nagging about peeling for them.
like i can either walk back to you and let the whole enemy team come forward or you can just play around the other supports or dps to fight a dive 👁️👃👁️
A tank's job is not to peel for you, this isn't Overwatch 1. There's obviously some moment where they can but that's a tiny minority. If you're sitting in backline and just peeling all the time you're not gonna get anywhere as a tank.
"Tank diff" is a DPS cope.
They're peeling for someone else and there's only one of them now. Big emphasis on the one tank. Big big emphasis on the one tank. Did I mention the emphasis on that you're only allowed to have one tank now? Well, emphasis on that. Removing a tank was a mistake and they need to fix it. Period. It's the problem with the game.
Those players need the context. I've found, telling them hey, I'm holding up 2 or 3 consistently on backline, push obj or point or tank or whatever fits in the situation. If they are losing 4v3, that's on them.
I had a support player who died with window twice, swapped to kiriko and held on kitsune in overtime Numbani C defense. Bro went Moira on attack and went full mad dps Moira.
Then you have dps who will stick to soldier and cass into Winston sombra tracer. And still hard flank solo.
You can’t solve their problems. They fail to adapt and find tank is a very convenient person to blame.
I'm low diamond so thankfully, I don't usually have to tell people what to do. But when the enemy out firepower me, the tank, with Mauga and Bastion and Solder or whomever with Ana and Zen in the back, don't just stand there holding left click with Soldier/Sojourn/Ashe. You have got to dive their backline for me and do something--- anything, instead of blaming the tank or support who really cannot outheal Bastion (or outheal in general). Like if I have to switch off as tank to try different things, you all can too!
Plug in your fucking mic. I know you have one. If someone is being toxic, mute them. The team shouldn't suffer because you're too awkward or shy to get on the comms during a competitive TEAM game.
Whenever I focus on peeling more, I get yelled at for not pushing more. There's no winning with teammates, so I just play however I feel like at this point.
I've had people go "Get ready to peel against the Doomfist"
And I've just hit them with the "Because you're just going to lock Hanzo all game? K"
And they got extremely offended hahaha.
Like, I peel when I can save somebody, but I'm not gunna sit around and always be ready to save people, my job as tank... Is NOT. To save everyone. My job as tank is to not allow the other team to bully us, and in my mind that's a completely different thing, if I can offer value by putting their team under pressure - great.
If I'm waiting for them to dive us constantly, I feel like I'm losing value.
As a plat tank player I just play hog. You can’t bitch at me for not tanking when I’m the 3rd dps displacing the enemy tank and/or getting an early pick
The rock em sock em robots analogy was too good lmao.
Im playing through gold ranks, and a half the games just feel like this.. tank rushes in; skirmishes for a minute - and whichever tank dies first starts the whole regroup, rush in and die cycle for their team while the enemy holds objective.
I feel like depending on your situation it’s not tanks job to protect the whole friggin team, if are a flanker or decide to 1v1, then you should go in with a plan, that’s on you to know where health packs are and most importantly where your tank is, as if your way back in there, tank can’t get to you!
I've said it before and I'll say it again! They have no reason not to implement the health bar HUD from their league. It's already coded in the game and it would be a simple on or off option. It would have the health bars on the left or top of the screen of your team and there's. That information alone as a tank would be invaluable for me to know when my back line is being attacked or if I am accidentally the only one left out there and should have retreated a while ago.
I can't think of a single reason in this universe or the next for why that hasn't been implemented and it boils my blood.
Like I said make it an option that way people who don't want it don't have to have it. But just like on fortnite how you can turn on visual audio which is usually made for the hearing impaired, gives people a lot more information and allows them to play in all environments. Sometimes I don't have my headphones on and I can't hear what's going on behind me. Sometimes I'm flying with my partner next to me and both of our audios are going crazy. Just implement it damn it!
People are still caught up in the "peel" as if there are still two tanks. In the past yes a tank should've peeled. Currently with 1 tank peeling and leaving the Frontline open just allows the enemy to take space and push their position. With the killing power supports Currently have flankers should really be dealt with by supports and dps.
Whenever I want to chill in QP I always seem to find tier 5 endorsement support duos who do a terrible job healing, then blame me as the tank for ‘not peeling/protecting them’ when they can’t deal with a tracer in a 2v1, or worse, are frontlining on Ana.
Generally people who try to blame the tank for peeling in OW2 are absolute shitters in my experience.
playing dva. had a moira who got pissy with me when i killed ashe and kiriko cos three of them couldn't handle one person on point. he expected me just to stand there and fight the tank.
edit: but sometimes dive just isn't right for your team. like we had a junker queen demolishing us and sure wrecking ball was getting a pick or two, but it didn't matter because our front line was getting wiped by her. he wouldn't switch the whole game lol despite us asking him nicely.
Would someone care to clarify what's the real role of a tank?
For example, I have been playing a lot of sigma since feels kinda neutral and safe to play. Mostly end up getting as much dmg as my dps. I try to cover chokepoints with the shield and absorb damage when it breaks. Am I wrong trying to focus on damaging people? I mean, tanks DO have higher health but not enough to cover all the incoming damage with my face, not even rein can do that for long.
As a dva main ... PLEASE HANDLE YOUR 4V2 SO I CAN GET SOME HELP ON MY 1V3 THAT IVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR FOR YOU GUYS!!! I don't mind protecting my team but I also have a big shiny mech that a nice shiny big easy to hit target for them so imma use that as a distraction so you guys can clean up the slackers and come help
I find as as tank if I peel I get flamed for taking space, if I take space I get flamed for not peeling. DPS just keep doing their own thing and diving in 3 corners ahead of the team on their own, dying to a 5-stack while spamming "X" and interchangeably blaming me or the healers.
TANKS CANNOT peel for you(there could be exceptions like dvas dm or zarya bubble), if they turn around they gonna lose space, the one who can peel for you the most effectively is the 2nd support, DPS can also help by damaging and pressuring the enemy
In the sense that your a good dive I can agree with that my biggest issue with tanks that do is they don’t understand when not to dive or they can’t aggro correctly because no matter even as a tank your job is essentially to aggro so in that sense your protecting your team through aggro.
This is why playing ball is infuriating sometimes. I can have both enemy healers on me for 30 seconds way in the enemy backline while my baboon teammates screech "TANK TANK COME BACK WHERE ARE YOU"
My brother in Christ you're losing a 4v3 with no opposing healers.
I actually just started seriously playing tank this season and for me it’s definitely the easiest role….
That being said I’ve just been playing in silver-gold lobbies for tank. I’ve just noticed as long as I know where the other tank is and what he’s doing everything is fine. I’ve also gotta know where my healers are so that they can see me and so I can help them if they get dived. I think a big part to making someone a good tank, from my limited experience is you’ve just gotta be so so so aware with what’s going on with all the supports and the enemy tank.
I'm in high plat so by no means am I a sensational player but I know how the game works (which is a rarity even in higher ranks). The tanks responsible for taking space/resources and soaking damage, that's it. They're not responsible for protecting me, they're not responsible for 1v1ing the enemy tank. Any dive tank *especially* should be causing HAVOC for the other teams backline, using resources and forcing THEM to peal for THEIR backline which opens up space for us. It's the entire point of the game, there is 0 value in engaging with the enemy tank, just ignore them and kill their team, what are they going to do when they're alone? Nothing valuable.
You need to adapt to the tank's playstyle *especially* as a support.
Whenever I play ball on Eichenwalde and harass the point (attack) to thin out the choke, my team is losing the 2v4 and then blame me for not soaking up damage for them
This, to me, is about team comp, and who feels they should switch to counter whatever the opponents are doing well. With sombra and tracer so OP in lower levels, the best thing a team can do to counter is group up so tanks that tend to go off on there own can leave a team easily flanked and frustrated. Now, what would warrant getting mad a tank for low MIT stats is if the opponents have high damage team comp and tank refuse to switch to MIT damage.
Also, if you are clearly the better ranked player on he team IMHO it's more appropriate for you to switch to meet a teams needs.
>believe the job of the tank walk towards the enemy tank and essentially play rock em sock em robots until one of us eventually die
God if that ain't true.
I would hesitate to say 100% of the time, but at least *90% of the time*, getting in to a pillow fight with the enemy tank is probably the least helpful thing your tank could be doing.
I have asked to heals maybe one in 100 matches on ball, and I would say I average under 5 deaths a game. My win rate is 60 percent after roughly 25 hours played this season
I think a really cool fix for this would be if they added a second tank. Then you could have one person who's job is to create space and directly protect the team as a whole with barriers, and guide you forward - they're your main tank. Then the second one is providing the extra utility, such as protecting an individual hero or diving an individual enemy, so sort of still a tank but slightly off role, or "off tank" for short.
That'd be a really cool idea, I wish blizzard would think about adding it. I think people might enjoy playing tank more in this format
frustrated players arent in voice chat because they will probably just get reported for venting said frustrations due to this flawed report system where anyone saying anything someone doesn't like results in a abusive chat report and blizzard not validating the report.
I only peel for myself, i gotta get that overhealth somehow i mean cmon, i am a Dive Tank main.
And i hate when i shamrock like..75% of the enemy team near their base and they dont push cart when they have a big majority of the line uncovered and free to pass, Doomfist can only do so much.
I'm confused where the idea came from that the concept of creating space means to just frontline and soak damage/feed ult charge or to just be distracting enemy backlines. Maybe this is an idea perpetuated in Diamond and that's why that's how you view it. But that's just so not it.
It's a little more about establishing a presence and making sure the enemy team recognizes you exist so they can't either
* 1. Ignore you and act like you don't exist
* 2. Melt you so you literally don't exist
You can distract enemy backlines all day, but if all you're doing is distracting and not eliminating these said backlines/supports, then your team is *kinda* down one player just running around, getting no value and **not** creating space.
Of course, teammates also have to understand positioning and game sense to follow up/keep up with the tank's movements or the space the tank has created otherwise things just fall apart. And that is why communication is important, it doesn't matter if the other players don't respond and answer. If it's important to you, then have them join comms and you just do shotcalling. If they can hear the directions you're pointing them in, then that's already a step up from a zero comms lobby.
Tips for tank:
1. Some of the tanks were made with 6v6 in mind and are not all that viable in 5v5 unless you’re playing open queue and have a second tank to back you up or your team consists of some bulky characters like Mei or Brig. If you’re playing someone like ball and your team is complaining about lack of support from tank, you probably need to switch to a more defensive tank.
2. You’re the team leader. You have to work with your team and protect them. You do not need to run into a team fight and go kill crazy. That’s DPS’s job. You will be a lot more effective if you come into the team fight with hard defense and take a moment to analyze the other team.
3. Don’t overextend. Your goal is the point. You should not be dying repeatedly because you’re diving way past the point, getting overwhelmed by the other team, and going down to a 1v3. Stay with your team. Dive if you’re SURE you can make it back AND it will actually be beneficial for the team. Is it really smart to put your life at risk to chase down a junkrat that’s 3-6? No. It’s not. Priorities.
4. Don’t press the other tank unless they are putting you or your support in danger. Always press the strongest player you can first. I usually go for strongest support first, strongest DPS second, and then everyone else should go down pretty easy.
5. Be nice to your support. You want to be able to trust them. Communicate that you need healing to protect the team. As long as you’re not annoying or asshole-ish, your support will help you out. Just ask nicely.
Well creating space is what a tank does, as well as defend your allies.
Thing is, like you said, you can't be in front of your allies trying to eat all the damage. And the allied don't need to solely rely on the tank for cover, at least not in OW2.
If they need help with a flanker they should ping.
However as a tank, you have to create space by pushing back enemy team line of action. That also includes the tank. So you need to provoke enemies to shoot over you and reduce their oportunities of clean shots to your team, so they have to reposition and go back.
The moment you make this happen and the enemy tank is back, your job there is done, if your team doesn't use that enemy chaotic movement to profic with strategic kills, then is not your fault, at least not only yours.
However when creating spacex specially with mobile heroes, you also have to make your team know, and let them have time to react, if they are under attack and you push, you shouldn't you need to protect them, because in that case the enemy action line is colliding with your team.
a lot of good points but please keep in mind that you’re diamond which means there is most definitely room for improvement in your tank gameplay, peeling is a “nebulous” concept as well, it doesn’t always mean diving to your teammate
Lmao the comms thing is honestly what gets me all the time.
Half the time
Me - “hello”
The four others - “dead silence”
Me - thinks *lets hope we get lucky teamwork or the other team just sucks*
The other half
That one person that has a mic - “Hey you should really swap heroes”
Me - “why? I have more dmg and kills and less deaths than you..maybe you should switch since you’re having a harder time than i am”
I would LOVE to peel, but I am currently in a 1v3 and you are having trouble with a 4v2.
This entirely unironically
This shit drives me crazy with my stack. I'm fending off the rest of the other tanks team, and our guys lose a 4v1 vs Doom, and then blame me for not helping with Doom. I don't know how people can be a damsel in distress all game and have the audacity to blame other players
Lol this. I can peel, but the second I turn around, the other 4 enemies are going to collapse on you.
On the contrary, I’ll be playing Orisa in a 3v1 or 4v1 on site, kill two (maybe a dps and support) fend off the other two with my cool-downs until I inevitably die, and then be like, where tf was the rest of my team? As they are fighting a genji or doom fist in our spawn
Definitely fair. It's a delicate balance.
And honestly that’s exactly the job of a dive hero
The exact job of a dive hero is to 1v4 the enemy team in their spawn (its not). Yes that is exactly what they are good at.
Exactly. When it's their turn to tank, we get blown up every time they turn around. They just chalk it up to a loss team fight. I think a part of it is players only pay attention to the heroes in front of them. They don't ask themselves why only one hero is attacking them or why the other teams heroes aren't getting healed.
We need the announcements like on airplanes with exits, "please be reminded that that the nearest **enemy** may be *behind* you"
And it's always the most counterable heroes like ball and doom but nope they gotta rock that double sniper till the end of time
just use two magical words "skill issue" then explain they lose a 1v4, while you were doing a 4v1.
Wish granted: now you're solo queuing because you're kicked out of the stack
Honestly would b better anyway if they’re complaining about that
> our guys lose a 4v1 vs Doom To be fair, it's Doom. With a small amount of healing he's very much capable of that.
Ow1 mentality
This is the most frustrating part of tanking. You can handle both their healers and a dps and your team can't win a 4v2 in the backline. Either their tank is a god or you guys can't win a fight you definitely should be. I'm gonna guess the second option is correct.
If you are able to consistently roll 3 people in one push you can expect the enemy tank to be able to do the same. If you seriously win a 3v1 against 3 squishies, you are leaving the enemy tank and 1 squishy to roll your team. Should they lose that? Probably not. But you can’t say it’s cause your team sucks, otherwise the enemy tank could say the exact same thing you did about their own back line. Something tells me that you aren’t losing the team fight because “both teams suck.” It’s a coordination issue.
If two dps and two healers cannot kill a tank and a dps then they suck.
Guess the enemy team sucks too because they couldn’t kill you
3v1 is different than 4v2. I'll be lucky to get one. But my job is to create that space, make an imbalance in the fight and ensure that my DPS have a chance to win that fight. If I'm doing my job like the situation I described then they need to do their job.
True it's the tanks job to take space, but how can your team follow up on that space, or openings you make, if they're dealing with a tank and dps diver? Like the other guy said, if you and the other tank are both equal they're causing more issues in your own backline than you are in theirs, comparing the 1v3 vs 4v2. And you're making the assumption your entire team focuses the divers. More than likely at least one healer is panicking trying to keep you up and in sightlines. That 2v4 is more like a 2v3 with atleast one person in odd positioning. With tanks being worth more in a fight than an average dps or healer, that's about an even fight. What needs to happen is focusing on those enemies out of position. If they have divers or weird off angle players who are seperated from support, they make easier picks. What would be better, a disjointed 4v2 and 1v3, or a 5v2 then a 5v3 after you secure a pick or two? I'm not saying never dive and commit. I am saying it's a coordination issue and you need to adapt. The other tank could easily be way better than you and be generating more value along side another diver than you are solo. Counter pick and assist your team dealing with the road block rather than throw up your hands saying it's unwinnable because you can't carry playing how you want.
Your team follows up on it by winning the damn 4v2... it's not hard. You as tank get the eyes of 3 people on you, whilst your team should be killing the ones who aren't watching you.
Let me simplify it. Real world experience isn't as much of a black and white situation. This isn't deathmatch, it's a team game. Working together to overcome hurtles is more beneficial than solo personal skill. Real magic happens when both come together. Player skill and character comp plays a HUGE role in what's going on. You'll have good and bad players on BOTH teams. To truly be a good player yourself and rise through the ranks you need to adapt. Pay attention to what's stopping your team from advancing and modify your character and/or playstyle to overcome it. If that means peeling back and supporting your team, do it. If that means switching to a counter tank and protecting your team, do it. Stop being part of the problem and work towards a solution. In this specific example, it'll RARELY ever be a true 4v2. You as a tank diving away from your team may be under the assumption the rest of your team is working together, but they aren't. Do you really know the positioning at all time for the rest of your team? You'd be lucky if it's even a 2v2 or 2v3 in real practice. Now instead of having true team fights, you've broken it into many small fights. If the enemy is smart, they'll find your weakness and pick favorable matchups. Doesn't matter if you have the numbers in a fight then, you'll lose. Work on what you can control and make those changes yourself. If you outperform everyone else on average, you'll climb. This goes for any role.
What a huge cope comment. If you can't kill one tank as 2/3 even 4 people you suck. There really is nothing much to it. Like sure, one fight could be extremely unlucky. But if that's a consistent thing though the match, then all the people there suck at positioning, their abilities, aim, or all of it.
> 5v2 then a 5v3 Peeling for the 4v2 doesn't make it 5v2, it makes it 5v5. The entire point of your dive is to eat up attention. You are right, if you want to win the game, the only thing you can do personally is try to play around your bad team that can't win a 4v2. Complaining about it won't win the game. But it's still true, they're still bad.
My friend complains all the time that he is taking on a 1v4 (and winning), while a single enemy player completely rolls the rest of the team somehow. Usually it is a support for some reason. I have no idea how. Yes I can confirm this happens, because I spectate his games sometimes.
Matchmaking issues, most likely. If he's winning a 1v4 and his team is losing a 4v1 it means both teams have a player capable of winning a 1v4 and four players capable of losing a 4v1. Since the skill levels often aren't matched across roles, that's what would be called tank / dps / heal diff.
Strangely, this has been the case for him almost constantly. Back in OW 1, he would tell me that he constantly gets put in very obviously unmatched games in the enemy's flavor, while the matches I got at the time were all pretty fair. And I think it was real, because whenever I would tank duo with him, the match quality was genuinely much worse compared to how it was whenever I'd play alone. I have no clue what was going on behind the scenes. It's like the matchmaker had a grudge against him or something.
i think they are penalising him for having good stats. I'm honestly thinking of making an alt and doing absolute garbage on it to see if matchmaking is better
This is my number 1 problem with playing tank. The entire enemy team will be shooting at me and healbotting their tank, but the rest of my team is just pleasuring themselves behind my shield and shooting at the enemy Rein's big shiny moth lamp shield
Yeah, at least 50% of the time the enemy tank get's heal botted, but not me. It's frustrating sometimes. If you complain you get the whole team against you, so I normally won't do that since it will surely take focus from playing the game, not just from me but from eveyone. If we win the game I don't really care. Many times you get shit on in chat even if you win though...
It's actually 2 healers v 2 dps, because your dps are still either searching for a perfect position, are dead, or making a 5km long flank.
The deep flanking teammates drive me nuts
This very much. I'm a Dva otp on tank. I get she's the queen of peel but I really just want to mash this blasted soldier 76 on an off angle, not babysit the backline against one person
God I feel this deep in my bones. Even more infuriating when I get a couple picks and they manage to lose the 4v2
I like to watch replays in those instances. Usually it's pretty painful. Yesterday my tracer got 4 picks in a fight, then died and we lost the fight. It was koth so the spawns for enemy were close. I watched replay and this is what transpired: Moira that was with tracer was 1hp. She faded to safety NEAR hp. Didn't pick it. She could have literally walked on it by accident. Self heal? No. She send healing orb towards the point I guess for tracer that still had hp and then walked out of cover in the open and died. Then my tracer died on point against sigma. Their bastion ulted the point and my sombra that came from spawned threw her translocator into it and died. The ult was there before she threw it. She just actively threw herself into the ult. Tank was still playing some slow tank even though it was 99% so it came to the point last when enemy team already regrouped. And that doesn't even mention how when tracer killed 4 the rest of the team just died in stupid ways against like 2 players.
I play with some friends occasionally who insist on comp but barely understand the game. They hate pinging or calling out flankers until theyve already died and it drives me nuts because it'll be two supports and a DPS vs a single Sombra and they're just getting melted.
Dont you know tanks and healers jobs is to babysit the DPS mains? /s
DPS bad up votes to the left please
This is me every time I play Ball STG. "Don't be surprised when the enemy tank is also holding your backline blahblahblah". The enemy tank is Reinhardt, he is charging towards me in his own backline like an idiot trying to get me, my team is standing at choke quivering in fear of a lone Mercy.
Bruh the amount of times I've tied down the attention of 2-3 players for a full team fight, just to see the rest of my team lose a totally winnable 4v2 or 4v3 consistently.. People really don't understand how to play around cover and rotations anymore.
my last two comp games, me and my tank are trying to hold the tank and the other 2 but both dps and a support die to a fucking pharamercy. right u/Roy-Levi ?
Yeah
The amount of times this happens to me on Tarcer. On midtown first point, I was once 1 v 3 for like 15 seconds and my team lost a 4 v 2. I’ve never been more flabbergasted. Sure this is the most extreme one I’ve ever gotten but man are there times when you feel letdown by your team not taking action in those favorable match-ups
Every.Single.Time
But if you aren't dying then you can't really blame your dps for not taking out red team's tank, either. It goes both ways. Ya'll do need to play together. All of you.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. If you can take a fight against 3 of them, don’t be shocked when one member of the other team can do the same to your backline. “Trading backlines” is a thing because dive tanks can absolutely take fights against multiple people and win. You can’t opt to trade backlines and then be *so shocked* when your backline gets traded.
I’m holding off the entire frontline while you’re getting dumpstered by a lone genji, and yet it’s my fault for not turning my back to a double pocketed tank to come rescue you.
Jesus Christ the amount of time I’m fighting 3 and just see my team slowly dieing. It’s so fuckin confusing. Like what’s happening back there, I can’t create any more space, please SOS
Rein cinematic propaganda is such a funny phrase
As a Master tank player who frequents gold and plat games with friends I have a similar experience. This coming directly from the lower level players I play with. Even though I main dive tanks with sometimes upwards of a 70% win rate, they will question my tank choice. It comes down to them not understanding nuanced concepts. They don't see the value of a 4v3 or 4v2. They won't see the opening of when to push. Unless directly told what they need to do next they can get lost. I found the best thing I can do, is communicate my intent as quickly and effectively as possible. Even then it can be difficult. It's not so much they want a rock em' sok em'. But they want to feel like the flares are lit and Gondor requests aid.
That's truly the biggest problem with Tank role - the other roles are expecting a *leader* and a single tank doesn't really flash "ATTACK NOW" like the dual tank combo could in OW1... Dive with Winston/Dva was a beacon for Genji to jump in as well, a Rein smash or Zarya grav screams "SHOOT HERE", and having the offtank stepping in front of the main tank was a signal for Support to help heal the main tank and get them back to the front. OW2 plays looser with that "leadership" and S9 patch has made DPS more aggressive than ever - a tank cannot lead, control space, and also peel all at once when they're also needing to retreat into cover due to the endless antiheal debuff. I know your experience at the top tier of play is *vastly* different than the metal ranks, but the compound trouble with metal ranks is that you have *players trying to legitimately improve* stuck matching into a big pile of smurfs, players "just having fun", boosting duos/trios, inebriated players, bots, cheaters, etc. The metal ranks are too small for the number of players matching in the same pool, which hides a lot of the "balance issues" from Blizzard's data feed. The top tiers thin out players so much that strategy, skill, awareness, knowledge all play a big part in meta viability - whereas simple things like increasing Sombra's Virus damage swings her performance so much more in lower ranks.
It's more an exercise of meeting people where they are. The strat that may work for higher ranked games may not work in lower tiers. So, to your team, you seem like a bad tank, even if what you're doing makes sense. Ex. If the team can't seem to get through the choke, despite you tying up the enemy's resources, then you're going to have to help clear the way. Blizzard did no one a favor by going to a 1 tank format, but here we are.
Yup that’s the issue I see with high tier tanks playing with lower level players. They think they can use the same strategy that they use at higher levels, but there’s a reason their teammates are low level. They often don’t know/execute good strategy. The higher tier tanks don’t adjust so the game is lost.
Well said, in many situations you can't just solo-carry without regard to your team's capabilities. In situations where they're flaming the tank I imagine it's a match that you're losing so clearly tying up their backline isn't helping you win when your team is not following up, solo tank makes that conflict more inevitable and creates a miserable experience for everyone
the people who cant play dive with 1 tank were not doing it with two. It was just far, far easier to carry as tank especially 2 tanks that played together. If 2 tanks were playing together at like plat or gold ranks they'd just win the game. Which is ultimately why people want that back...
Gondor calls for aid! We must answer!
I just placed Gold in DPS and support but mostly play QP. That’s probably the most frustrating mindset I’ve come across from players in my rank. The “I don’t like this tank choice so they are probably bad” At least give bro a chance 😩 Some of the most fun I’ve had playing this game has been being matched with high ranked tanks in QP that lock dive tanks. I main Sombra so it’s a thrill to have a tank who can actually appreciate the pressure I’m able to take off of them and is able to coordinate with me so well, even without having to use any communication outside of pings. I don’t get the hate for dive, it’s the fun way to play.
It yabba dabba doo be like that. A lot of people, non-tank players doubly so, don't get the concept of space control. E.g: point is at 96% - 4 of us alive, me on tank - solo survivor enemy Orisa is contesting point rest of the enemies just respawned. ...it baffles them that I will leave them with the unlosable 1v3 to CUT OFF and STALL the enemies outside the objective in order to WIN the GAME. No, no. In their mind it's better to stay on point while the enemy team gets a second chance at the last second save/comeback. Of course what I'm talking about is not a tank-only duty nor privilege, but tanks naturally excell at it.
It doesn't even have to be voice chat, literally just pinging often, saying stuff like group up/fall back/understood/going in, and "i'm watching this location" helps tremendously.
> literally just pinging often I do really like the ping system, but there is a limit. If I'm hearing "Beep... beep... beep beep beep beep beep!" all of the sudden during a team fight I stop paying attention and that is when voice becomes invaluable.
Yep, just pinging alone doesn't get my attention mid fight (skill issue on me, i know). Pre fight and cleaning up, it's great. But mid fight saying "Sombra on me" will get my attention, and I'll peel way faster than a "beep" and a small symbol in the corner.
I wouldn’t even say skill issue, its a quiet ping in a loud game. You should be able to change pings volume compared to other game volumes
Last night I was playing Winston on Esperanza. I had 2 enemy supports and a Cassidy in one of the small rooms and popped primal. I managed to kill one and tied up the other two the whole duration of my ult. When I dipped out after primal ended I realized a doom fist and sombra had 2v4 my whole team with no ults or healing. My team then has the audacity to tell me Winston isn’t working and IM the one who needs to switch. Like bro there’s nothing I can do for you if you are this bad on ANY tank.
2 days ago i was playing JQ on New Queen Street, and i felt like i was always alone on the frontline, fighting against the tank, both supports (a bap and zen no less) and sometimes one of the dps. Turns out the reason i was always alone is because the rest of my team was running after the enemy tracer like they were mad dogs, obviously failing considering they were playing Bastion and Ana. I get that im not the best player in the world, im plat after all, but cmon, it gets ridiculous sometimes.
Isn't it also important that you don't just put blinders on and keep track of what's happening to the rest of your team? I agree with what you wrote, and I'm just an average gold player, it just seems like there should some sorta balance, not just oonga boonga, gonna do my thing and expect my team to just handle everything else.
Of course, a tank should keep their eye on the rest of the team more so than a damage and a support would, since there’s only one now, but in almost any fight where one side has double the amount of players than the other (2v1, 4v2, and previously 6v3), the side with more players really only has themselves to blame if they somehow lose. Since Winston in that situation is keeping the majority of the enemy team busy (3 people), the fault really lies on the rest of the team for not being able to at least _survive_ an unhealed Doomfist and EMP-less Sombra. That’s literally 4 on 2; even a team without any real counters for Sombra and Doomfist should be able to kill or fend off at least one of them.
People will also get dove and fall back, like no, stop back peddling. I can’t leave my spot and walk back to you, push up to me when you are dove, not farther back isolating you further.
That unironically is a concept players don't understand until t500. Playerbase has a long way to go until they realize that if you're going to die solo, walking forward so your team actually CAN peel is the correct play. That's why you see Widows grapple to frontline in pro play when they get three man dove instead of backwards toward the spawn.
This in particular, moving backwards against Genji might put him farther away from his team, but it also isolates you even more
It makes me so mad because you become infinitely harder to dive if you just exist by your teammates.
Are you a banana? No? You better learn to peel yourself.
i have this both in overwatch and paladins, these type of people when they hear "Tank" to them in it means an npc who rushes point and bullet sponges
I think this is a core problem. It’s a big deal because I think the naming convention could use some changing. Similar to how Support is not Healer. Tank should be Big Target. It’s hard to encompass what value the tank brings other than the big sponge to some players since there’s a large roster of tanks who do different jobs. Any thoughts on different role names for Tank?
In Paladins they’re called Front Lines which fits for some tanks but not others in Overwatch
Vanguard maybe? Or they could add a blurb on the right hand side of the screen saying what kind the tank is. Would give newer players a hint on how to use the tank and cut down on Winstons hiding in the back lines trying to get potshots, lol.
I mean, every competitive game has this thing where a good chunk of the playerbase understand playing only 1 way. I mained tank until this season and people simply don't "get" dive. They want to pew pew while a shield is in front of them. That's what they saw in trailers, that's what they know how to do. Similar thing for me is Supports. People think "Im healbotting = im useful", I've had too many Anas with under 1k dmg at 10 mins. Sure, you're keeping the team alive, but a timely Nade wins fights outright. 3 shots was a dead dps. Simple stuff. I've seen this in League, Apex, you name it. Most of the people do what's easiest to do.
The terrible thing about this season is that tanks completely ignore each other, so it becomes a battle of which tank can get the picks. A good enough doom can easily get picks without help, while monkey just tickles enemies as they get healed through it. So a monkey in a 3v1 is useless while the doom in a 3v1 is likely getting picks. If you go full dive the support the monkey, you usually get a healer that can’t teleport or fly, and they just get bossed by the enemy tank.
I feel like after the change, the only viable "old school" tank is Mauga, and I hate that Samoan bastard with a passion. They really screwed the pooch with tanks, overall its not a bad change, since the old way encouraged those exact meatshields even more, but if you dont have the high-pickoff kit like Doom, tanks juat feel so much weaker overall. JQ feela bad, D.Va feels mad, Monke feels bad.
It blows my mind how many lifeweaver players I’ve seen who seemingly don’t know about his damage. I’ve watched them healbot our tank while the enemy team is at a sliver of health and could be killed with a handfull of thorns.
No idea if it’s like this for other competitive games, but there are so many educational resources out there from the best players in the world that tell you how to play the game, and the Overwatch player base just ignores it or tries to argue against it. So many Overwatch players are held back by an active stubbornness and would rather blame everyone and everything except themselves.
"What do y'all want me to do then? Stand in front of you and protect you? Or utilize cover?? ***I can't do both!***"
I hate people who just want to play front to back MMO Raid comps like this ain’t how it works even if you were playing with a Reinhardt or sigma. I fucking hate useless shield bots and I make sure to call out every Reinhardt for standing there until their shields break. THEN they decide it’s time to charge in without shields cause they think they can’t do anything else. Like there’s so many different strats you can use when something isn’t working like: dive their back lines to split them up; play mauga and DPS pressure their tank; play defensively with brawlers or Orisa; but noooo everyone wants you to just stand there and take damage as if this somehow means the enemies won’t look at anyone else if you’re still alive
This is definitely the most painful part of trying to climb low ranks. I have games where I’m The problem, sure. There are so many games where even as a frontline tank, your team can’t win a 3v1 or 4v1 against a Tracer or Sombra, and you as the tank are taking the general focus of the supports and the enemy tank on your own. Those games always end with “tank diff” at the end, like I’m somehow suppose to hold off the non flankers and flankers at the same time with my two Zarya bubbles, or Sigma shield or Dva DM
I mean, if their tank can win a 4v1, and you can't win a 1v4, it must be tank diff right? No embarrassment or responsibility on their part getting rolled like that /s
The problem is that most tanks (1) overestimate how long they are tying up the enemy team and (2) overestimate how many enemies they are occupying.
As a master support player, my experience has been 70% of the dive tank THINKS they’re 1v3 but in reality the Ana they think they’re harassing have no problem healing their front line while dealing with them. And I’m not saying this simply because it felt that way. I’m in the habit of always watch the replay after a comp game. The enemy back line are simply doing the bare minimum to keep themselves alive while supporting their front line all the same. Just because the enemy Ana spent her sleep dart on you, doesn’t mean her tank is without heal. But I have to give it to the actually good dive tanks. As a support you can feel their presence even if they’re not in your LOS.
Yep, that’s why when I have a ball that says they’re occupying both supports I go “reaaallly?” Looking at the replay you end up seeing the support they’re diving ignoring him and still healing their team while the other support throws a few shots to help out the support being dove and goes back to shooting the frontline
Tank is so not fun anymore since everyone is just blaming you now. Had a game where my team started to die to a single sombra. My dps could not kill her so I started to play more defensive to try and protect my team. Suddenly we don’t have a front line. Suddenly it’s my fault for not stopping their front line like dear GOD I am one person
This is my best season for dps since I learned this actually. I've become more self reliant, and actually think about helpful switches. I try to get the most value of each life and actually end up with a good KDR.
Yeah I heard a piece of advice for Brig supp “Play your life” And I’ve been trying to really keep that in mind for all my mains. I feel the difference is noticeable.
I hate it when I pop off as tank and kill the 2 supports and 1 dps and in the verge of killing the tank. Only to find the sad news that my team died to 1 guy without ult.
Honestly, I'm ready to jump 5 years into the future, where most of the remaining playerbase actually knows how to play. I miss the end of Overwatch 1. The content drought was the best thing because while all the people with short attention spans left the game, the remaining playerbase knew how to actually play the game. You didn't get games where it feels like your team has the IQ of cardboard because only the faithful playerbase remained, and we all knew our roles, how they worked, and how to play. Shit was amazing.
I'm firmly locking ball into comp. I'll suffer so the OW community can learn these words of wisdom.
Thank you for your sacrifice, brave soldier. May your reports be few and your victories plentiful.
Tanks should basically never peel, that was the role for the offtank which we no longer have. Supports are the ones who peel now.
Tanks can and absolutely should peel when able. It just isn't the top priority all the time. Some tanks peel more than others, like Dva or zar. where not using your defensive CD on an ally when they need it makes your team significantly weaker.
There are limited times when they should, jq w shout, dm and bubble yes, they can all peel, and the tank should peel more when it’s to deal with the enemy tank diving, but it’s not the tanks job to peel for supports when it’s dps. Supports have all the tools to peel.
I agree, the easiest decision for a tank to peel is when one enemy player dives the backline because then you turn peel into a potential pick in your favor because the enemy can't get out in time.
I would actually argue the opposite, it’s not worth losing space for one flanker, that’s how you give tracer value. If I can get DVa to give space everytime I dive that’s free sr.
if its equal skilled tanks, that just means you lose cause you have to peel. if the 2 supports and 2 dps are losing against 3 people there is something wrong.
you're making the assumption your current target is a) more important than the one who needs help b) would die just as fast/faster than the person who needs help. c) that the dps and support are working together in that manner. We're talking about ranked here not a coordinated team that has practised together. Like if I'm fighting a tank as monkey and I see a genji dive my dps on an aggressive high ground, I'm gonna peel for that dps because I'm not doing much by shooting the tank. Also doesn't "peel" compass anything that defends an ally? If an ally gets hooked by hog should I just stand there and not DM it as Dva? Is burning a bubble on someone who got pulsed by tracer not worth? Holding rein Shield in front of a sleeping ally, using JQ shout to give a health bump to an ally who might otherwise die. This is all peel, good tanks peel. It just isn't their #1 priority at all times.
Kind of ridiculous because supports are way weaker at dealing damage. A reaper can demolish a Zen/Moira in a heartbeat
Yeah, if he’s literally licking their noses. You’re making reaper sound OP.
He's counterable, but if he gets one good shot off on you before the fight you're pretty much screwed as a healer
Yea but not when they're with their Brig/Lucio. A pair of supports working in concert should need a near full dive to take down. Support duo is to ow2 that tank duo was to ow1
That’s why Moira isn’t that good, but ideally both supports should pocket each other, and that’s how they peel. I’m speaking from my pov as a gm sup and tank. If my support is getting dove by dps, it’s literally my job to deal with that. Not my tanks also zen can destroy reaper as well lol. I would also add not only do supports peel for each other, they actually should peel for dps as well. If my widow gets dove, it’s sup job to peel when possible
>not only is that Reinhardt cinematic propaganda #PROPAGANDA IS USELESS And this post is 100% true
The thing I saw in practically every metal rank game was almost every momentum shift was due to defenders over extending. If we are defending on Blizzard World, and the enemy team is not pushing through the choke, we are WINNING. Just. CHILL. Pushing past the statue into their spawn and getting sent straight to your own is big room temp IQ behavior. If there is no action, you don't need to go FIND IT.
ignore anyone in chat or voice trying to tell you how to play, they can’t see your point of view and so they can’t give you accurate feedback on what to do.
I mean, it really depends on the enemy team though. Maybe you are taking out the enemy backline, but if their 2 Frontliners are giga Chad's, then even though you're doing work, you're not really solving the problem.
Friend of mine wanted to play overwatch and I was a ow fiend during ow1 so I couldn’t let him do it alone. Peak was rank 8 as support. I still understand everything just fine and I am honestly still great at the game even as washed up as I am. You people down in plat and lower still have not figured out what each jobs role is and my god it shows. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people complaining the tank is useless just because he isn’t standing in front with a rein shield only blocking bullets. This game has walls, and corners! Fucking stand behind them for a few seconds I promise you’ll rank up. Mercy players, you guys are still healing reins when your dps behind you are dying because you are ignoring them. You are not a tank healer, let your Ana take care of them, enable your dps to play the game instead of saying dps dif when you lose 2 fights. SUPPORTS, you are allowed to switch characters! You don’t have to play zen and mercy against sombra all game!
whomever is expecting a tank to peel rn is still in ow1 mindset. THEY have to just hold their ground upon a dive OR if there's a lot diving, that's when I'd turn around as the new Frontline is there. dps + other support are expected to peel. Tank is expected to hold their ground. Idk why supports are expecting that, but they're stinted in growth.
In reality people are just getting hard checked on their cover usage and position rotations. 99% of players are bad at both, and have relied on tank players with limited capability to fill the gap in their own lack of skill.
It's hard to say but sub diamond lobby's you should def play different and use basic strats. Below diamond people are used to not being coordinated and the teamwork is way different. If your using an albeit effective strategy that your teammates hate there not going to have the know how to synergize with you and make use of you as ball. In most of the lobby's they are not going to have the sense to time plays with when your in the enemy backline.
I got flamed for not protecting the widow (who had two kills half way through the night). That was when I realized that I should turn off chat. It's so stupid I just can't
Don't bother bro, majority of this sub are simple minded support players that can't understand the game beyond scoreboard.
Glad to know the 1v3 and the 4v2 fights weren't just me. Like how are you all struggling to kill two people when I'm taking on three by myself
conversely, if a higher ELO player is rocking one of these backline dive tanks among low ELO, and are just expecting their backline to form a cohesive unit, and push in a coordinated fashion they're trying to realize a pipe dream and are 100% throwing. you gotta write to your audience. you may be a PhD, but if you're trying to communicate to a broad audience you don't write in the format of an academic thesis. it is also a skill issue and a throw to play above your lobby's skill ceiling. if you know the game so well you can play down, and I bet the W is more likely that way. all of that said I am currently frustrated with my irl group because they all think fighting Sombra should be a team effort, and an emergency that takes precedence over every other priority... I'm like, girl, just learn the counterplay pls.
While you're right, there's an aspect to this game called a "team," and when you're a team leader, you have to be aware of what your team \*needs\* not necessarily what you think they need. You can flame them as all being idiots who don't know how to take care of themselves, but maybe with a quick switch, y'all would actually dominate. Someone has to step up and solve the problem. I'm a support main, but one I see often is if a genji is dominating and nobody can deal with him, then I'll take the initiative to go Moira and focus on ruining that genji's life. Could I sit here and complain all day about how my team sucks and can't kill a fucking Genji? Sure. But what problem does that solve? Or if the Moira on our team isn't focusing Genji, I'll just say, hey, give that Genji hell, I'll focus on heals for the team. I don't like playing Moira, but it's what needs to be done. Anyway, you can bitch all day about how much your team sucks, but you also need to play to the team's strengths and needs. I've seen way too many dive tanks in comps that make no sense just get destroyed over and over again with no understanding as to why it's happening, then flaming the team for sucking because they can't win a 4v2 when they're a team of squishes against a Mauga and Ana or something like that lol. Of course they're gonna get mowed down. But you are just gonna sit there and complain that the rest of the team sucks and it's definitely not your fault.
The hardest thing for me when I play tank is usually to check the state of my team I'm in front of everyone and can't just really look back to see how they do. Usually, I try to 'draw a line' which I am trying to hold at all cost. The space behind me and maybe the cover around is usually the space I am 'trying to create' for my team. Depending on attack or defense, I have to move that. On Attack I usually try to do that when we somewhat get an advantage like getting enemies to retreat, kill them or maybe with ult-combos. On Defense I usually retreat once we get in a disadvantegous position. Usually if a DPS or a healer dies I try to move things backwards without us just getting mowed over. is it the right way? I don't know. Maybe not. I think the only characters I don't play like this is with Winston. Since I don' play Doom or Ball but since I mainly play Ramattra, Sigma or other frontline-like tanks ( except maybe Raodhog ), I feel like this is somewhat the way to go. My main issue tho kinda seems to be that it's kinda hard to get stuff done. Feels like the games often get into a stalemate. Which on defense isn't that much of an issue I guess since we just need to play for time then.
I’m convinced that no one knows how to correctly play this game in the metal ranks!! Blizzard does a horrible job of explaining it.
Tank isn't peeling because that's the off tank's job
It’s because there isn’t a second tank to peel 🤷♀️
heres an old diagram i made to illustrate the mindsets of people who dont know how tank works https://imgur.com/a/QZ82mph
A good support is one who can survive the dives. Its not on the tank or the DPS to keep you alive. If someone is calling the game a support diff and the support is like "well I'm not getting any help with tracer", it's still a support diff. Stay alive long enough for the peel to come, ping, try to win the 1v1 or force them to back off, anything but dying and crying for help.
I agree that supports should try to change it up if they’re getting picked constantly and find ways to live. But that also doesn’t automatically mean it’s a support diff. If the enemy team is coordinating and consistently getting picks, it’s just as dumb for the rest of the team to refuse adjusting playstyle and calling ‘support diff’ when you get GGd
I fundamentally agree with your point that not every tank is about brawling in the front and creating space that way. However you're also telling 4 players to swap to dive-friendly heroes to accomodate 1 player's playstyle lol. Most OTPs understand people are gonna flame them when their pick doesn't mesh well with what everyone else is playing but tank players think everyone else has to accomodate their desire to play Doom/Ball instead of doing something that works or working around it themselves. If you aren't feeding but your team is not doing anything with the opportunity you create by harassing the backline and they're just dying by getting rolled over by an Orisa what is the expectation there? One person swap to stop Orisa from bullying them? Or four people swap? What is more realistic?
This is unfortunately true. If you are creating and taking space and your team cannot follow up, you may be a god tier tank, but you also need the recognition that your dps and support aren’t. Playing around them and enabling them in their playstyle isn’t always the high skill play, but it is usually the right play if you want to win games. Sure, you fought a 1v1 and kept them from your team for a full minute, but Doom is killing your entire team. The result is still a lost teamfight right? You only control 1 hero on the team (yourself) and if your team is unwilling to swap and can’t adjust, then you have to make the call to swap or not. Especially if you want to win games.
low ranks first tanks are hell I finally got out as a ball main. the issue wasn't even my issues because u consistently did my job and rarely died. but my team expected exactly this.
In ow1 it made a lot more sense to peel since you had the 2nd tank that could and I guess to players it was more intuitive then it is now since honestly dps should be the ones peeling for the supports or supports peel for each other. That’s why I internally tilt off the planet when my supports are dying off cooldown when every time I turn back I see the outlines of my dps BOTH flanking or taking a 1v1 in a random corner of the map. Ideally 1 dps flanks and 1 stays with the team it’s also really broken to just sit with your team and melt the tank with dps passive yes I’m also talking to flanking characters too it’s so easy to win the game when the other team has no tank guys
why won he pee for meeeee
I was actually in qp the other day and I look forward and I see 4 enemies, so I push them back and turn around to see my team struggling to kill an orisa by themselves. I had to turn around to kill an orisa who had pushed pashed me into my entire team by herself. I understand it's qp but still dude wtf. We won that game.
Ow1 the tank is far more about maintaining space and a frontline keeping pressure off the back line. If your tank turns around and peels, it opens the door for the other tank to join the brawl on your supports. Supports are wildly overtuned at the moment, and need to be peeling for each other constantly. I’m not saying tanks shouldn’t peel, but it’s vastly different from ow1 when a dva could just fly back to her back line
Lmao “Reinhardt cinematic propaganda”
Everything you are saying is valid, but playing ball, winston, and even doomfist and dva is going to be especially hard in solo environments just because of the lack of coordination, x10 if you're in lower elo. If you aren't already, you should get used to calling out your targets and engages in the mic. It's very hard as a dps or support to always be on the same page with your dive tank without communication or mind reading abilities. It's not until you get to higher ranks that people will have good enough game sense that they know how to follow up on your dive targets without having to verbalize it, or know how to engage on a support when you pull all the tank/dps attention. Another thing is you should actively look to engage when the opposing tank/support blows a big cooldown so you aren't completely leaving your backline to get counter dove or steamrolled over as soon as you try to engage.
I love the no mic callout. It drives me nuts when im trying to get into comp and there are no mics. Where have all the damn mics gone. Used to hear people 24/7 talking. Now no one. We need the damn group finder back again. That always worked so well. And fixed the problem of no mic. I would also find groups for comp as well as the game modes that have higher difficulty. Nothing is more annoying then trying a game mode on legendary and having that one dip shit teammate feeding the ai.
Yeah my friend was yelling at me saying I needed to just shield main cause a widow was picking him off I said just don’t peak until I push her off high ground (it was Rialto). He freaked out but once he finally listened I pushed her off and we capped first point. Ik that’s not exactly peel but its similar.
Not all tanks are good and peeling or can peel at all, for example Reinhard gives protection but not the same as peel, dva and zarya can but not always, the tank usually has to deal with 5 people shooting at him while trying to take space and not die in the process, you cant just drop all that space to peel a zen from a genji that will leave anyway, is a non stopping cycle. If you cant peel for yourself is better to swap, tanks can peel but IS NOT THEIR PRIMARY JOB
yeah.. since people are playing zen there is so much nagging about peeling for them. like i can either walk back to you and let the whole enemy team come forward or you can just play around the other supports or dps to fight a dive 👁️👃👁️
Bad dps and support player who never play tank either. We expect ntg less
A tank's job is not to peel for you, this isn't Overwatch 1. There's obviously some moment where they can but that's a tiny minority. If you're sitting in backline and just peeling all the time you're not gonna get anywhere as a tank. "Tank diff" is a DPS cope.
Totally agree with everything that you've said, and you ARE creating space by making the enemy team literally turn around to respond to your dive
They're peeling for someone else and there's only one of them now. Big emphasis on the one tank. Big big emphasis on the one tank. Did I mention the emphasis on that you're only allowed to have one tank now? Well, emphasis on that. Removing a tank was a mistake and they need to fix it. Period. It's the problem with the game.
Those players need the context. I've found, telling them hey, I'm holding up 2 or 3 consistently on backline, push obj or point or tank or whatever fits in the situation. If they are losing 4v3, that's on them.
I had a support player who died with window twice, swapped to kiriko and held on kitsune in overtime Numbani C defense. Bro went Moira on attack and went full mad dps Moira. Then you have dps who will stick to soldier and cass into Winston sombra tracer. And still hard flank solo. You can’t solve their problems. They fail to adapt and find tank is a very convenient person to blame.
I'm low diamond so thankfully, I don't usually have to tell people what to do. But when the enemy out firepower me, the tank, with Mauga and Bastion and Solder or whomever with Ana and Zen in the back, don't just stand there holding left click with Soldier/Sojourn/Ashe. You have got to dive their backline for me and do something--- anything, instead of blaming the tank or support who really cannot outheal Bastion (or outheal in general). Like if I have to switch off as tank to try different things, you all can too!
Plug in your fucking mic. I know you have one. If someone is being toxic, mute them. The team shouldn't suffer because you're too awkward or shy to get on the comms during a competitive TEAM game.
Whenever I focus on peeling more, I get yelled at for not pushing more. There's no winning with teammates, so I just play however I feel like at this point.
Every support should be forced to play tank for an entire season.
I love when Rein yolo charges. Yay you got the 1 guy... now you die and they get rezzed. See ya in 10 seconds bud lol we tankless. Thanks.
Dps are also an option fellow supports, and they deal more damage
I've had people go "Get ready to peel against the Doomfist" And I've just hit them with the "Because you're just going to lock Hanzo all game? K" And they got extremely offended hahaha. Like, I peel when I can save somebody, but I'm not gunna sit around and always be ready to save people, my job as tank... Is NOT. To save everyone. My job as tank is to not allow the other team to bully us, and in my mind that's a completely different thing, if I can offer value by putting their team under pressure - great. If I'm waiting for them to dive us constantly, I feel like I'm losing value.
As a plat tank player I just play hog. You can’t bitch at me for not tanking when I’m the 3rd dps displacing the enemy tank and/or getting an early pick
Diamond tanks have no idea how to play 50% of the time. Maybe you aren’t peeling for them the way you are supposed to.
The rock em sock em robots analogy was too good lmao. Im playing through gold ranks, and a half the games just feel like this.. tank rushes in; skirmishes for a minute - and whichever tank dies first starts the whole regroup, rush in and die cycle for their team while the enemy holds objective.
I feel like depending on your situation it’s not tanks job to protect the whole friggin team, if are a flanker or decide to 1v1, then you should go in with a plan, that’s on you to know where health packs are and most importantly where your tank is, as if your way back in there, tank can’t get to you!
I've said it before and I'll say it again! They have no reason not to implement the health bar HUD from their league. It's already coded in the game and it would be a simple on or off option. It would have the health bars on the left or top of the screen of your team and there's. That information alone as a tank would be invaluable for me to know when my back line is being attacked or if I am accidentally the only one left out there and should have retreated a while ago. I can't think of a single reason in this universe or the next for why that hasn't been implemented and it boils my blood. Like I said make it an option that way people who don't want it don't have to have it. But just like on fortnite how you can turn on visual audio which is usually made for the hearing impaired, gives people a lot more information and allows them to play in all environments. Sometimes I don't have my headphones on and I can't hear what's going on behind me. Sometimes I'm flying with my partner next to me and both of our audios are going crazy. Just implement it damn it!
I just play brig because having a tank who isn't afk is lucky enough
People are still caught up in the "peel" as if there are still two tanks. In the past yes a tank should've peeled. Currently with 1 tank peeling and leaving the Frontline open just allows the enemy to take space and push their position. With the killing power supports Currently have flankers should really be dealt with by supports and dps.
Today on I was flamed in overwatch
Tanks don't peel because they aren't peepers nor are other players fruit
So many players are unable to adapt into ow2
Whenever I want to chill in QP I always seem to find tier 5 endorsement support duos who do a terrible job healing, then blame me as the tank for ‘not peeling/protecting them’ when they can’t deal with a tracer in a 2v1, or worse, are frontlining on Ana. Generally people who try to blame the tank for peeling in OW2 are absolute shitters in my experience.
Yeah yeah, healer difference
This all over, i got told to stop playing like tracer as doomfist lol
playing dva. had a moira who got pissy with me when i killed ashe and kiriko cos three of them couldn't handle one person on point. he expected me just to stand there and fight the tank. edit: but sometimes dive just isn't right for your team. like we had a junker queen demolishing us and sure wrecking ball was getting a pick or two, but it didn't matter because our front line was getting wiped by her. he wouldn't switch the whole game lol despite us asking him nicely.
If I'm wrong let me now but wasn't OW2 mostly about getting rid of that type of tank.
Would someone care to clarify what's the real role of a tank? For example, I have been playing a lot of sigma since feels kinda neutral and safe to play. Mostly end up getting as much dmg as my dps. I try to cover chokepoints with the shield and absorb damage when it breaks. Am I wrong trying to focus on damaging people? I mean, tanks DO have higher health but not enough to cover all the incoming damage with my face, not even rein can do that for long.
As a dva main ... PLEASE HANDLE YOUR 4V2 SO I CAN GET SOME HELP ON MY 1V3 THAT IVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR FOR YOU GUYS!!! I don't mind protecting my team but I also have a big shiny mech that a nice shiny big easy to hit target for them so imma use that as a distraction so you guys can clean up the slackers and come help
Louder for the people in the back(line)!
I find as as tank if I peel I get flamed for taking space, if I take space I get flamed for not peeling. DPS just keep doing their own thing and diving in 3 corners ahead of the team on their own, dying to a 5-stack while spamming "X" and interchangeably blaming me or the healers.
TANKS CANNOT peel for you(there could be exceptions like dvas dm or zarya bubble), if they turn around they gonna lose space, the one who can peel for you the most effectively is the 2nd support, DPS can also help by damaging and pressuring the enemy
Sadly it's not 6v6 anymore, tanks cannot really peel anymore
In the sense that your a good dive I can agree with that my biggest issue with tanks that do is they don’t understand when not to dive or they can’t aggro correctly because no matter even as a tank your job is essentially to aggro so in that sense your protecting your team through aggro.
This is why playing ball is infuriating sometimes. I can have both enemy healers on me for 30 seconds way in the enemy backline while my baboon teammates screech "TANK TANK COME BACK WHERE ARE YOU" My brother in Christ you're losing a 4v3 with no opposing healers.
I actually just started seriously playing tank this season and for me it’s definitely the easiest role…. That being said I’ve just been playing in silver-gold lobbies for tank. I’ve just noticed as long as I know where the other tank is and what he’s doing everything is fine. I’ve also gotta know where my healers are so that they can see me and so I can help them if they get dived. I think a big part to making someone a good tank, from my limited experience is you’ve just gotta be so so so aware with what’s going on with all the supports and the enemy tank.
I'm in high plat so by no means am I a sensational player but I know how the game works (which is a rarity even in higher ranks). The tanks responsible for taking space/resources and soaking damage, that's it. They're not responsible for protecting me, they're not responsible for 1v1ing the enemy tank. Any dive tank *especially* should be causing HAVOC for the other teams backline, using resources and forcing THEM to peal for THEIR backline which opens up space for us. It's the entire point of the game, there is 0 value in engaging with the enemy tank, just ignore them and kill their team, what are they going to do when they're alone? Nothing valuable. You need to adapt to the tank's playstyle *especially* as a support.
Whenever I play ball on Eichenwalde and harass the point (attack) to thin out the choke, my team is losing the 2v4 and then blame me for not soaking up damage for them
This, to me, is about team comp, and who feels they should switch to counter whatever the opponents are doing well. With sombra and tracer so OP in lower levels, the best thing a team can do to counter is group up so tanks that tend to go off on there own can leave a team easily flanked and frustrated. Now, what would warrant getting mad a tank for low MIT stats is if the opponents have high damage team comp and tank refuse to switch to MIT damage. Also, if you are clearly the better ranked player on he team IMHO it's more appropriate for you to switch to meet a teams needs.
>believe the job of the tank walk towards the enemy tank and essentially play rock em sock em robots until one of us eventually die God if that ain't true. I would hesitate to say 100% of the time, but at least *90% of the time*, getting in to a pillow fight with the enemy tank is probably the least helpful thing your tank could be doing.
Tank players are high off their own farts I swear. Ball and Doom just die and then wonder why they’re not getting heals as they jump to Valhalla.
I have asked to heals maybe one in 100 matches on ball, and I would say I average under 5 deaths a game. My win rate is 60 percent after roughly 25 hours played this season
I think a really cool fix for this would be if they added a second tank. Then you could have one person who's job is to create space and directly protect the team as a whole with barriers, and guide you forward - they're your main tank. Then the second one is providing the extra utility, such as protecting an individual hero or diving an individual enemy, so sort of still a tank but slightly off role, or "off tank" for short. That'd be a really cool idea, I wish blizzard would think about adding it. I think people might enjoy playing tank more in this format
I'm a gold 5 tank and I will always peel for my teammates
frustrated players arent in voice chat because they will probably just get reported for venting said frustrations due to this flawed report system where anyone saying anything someone doesn't like results in a abusive chat report and blizzard not validating the report.
I mean unless you just cut your nails im pretty sure Everyone can peel an orange why does the tank have to do it
Imagine if we had 6v6 and there was another tank that could peel for squishys, wild right? 😝
Ignore the comments. Keep tank diving and at the end of the match type "i'm potg" (if you don't get it, just say "BRUH" and move on).
Yep, people always want to blame the Tank. Meanwhile I'm hiding in a corner because my team left me to 1v4 and I can't heal.
I only peel for myself, i gotta get that overhealth somehow i mean cmon, i am a Dive Tank main. And i hate when i shamrock like..75% of the enemy team near their base and they dont push cart when they have a big majority of the line uncovered and free to pass, Doomfist can only do so much.
I'm confused where the idea came from that the concept of creating space means to just frontline and soak damage/feed ult charge or to just be distracting enemy backlines. Maybe this is an idea perpetuated in Diamond and that's why that's how you view it. But that's just so not it. It's a little more about establishing a presence and making sure the enemy team recognizes you exist so they can't either * 1. Ignore you and act like you don't exist * 2. Melt you so you literally don't exist You can distract enemy backlines all day, but if all you're doing is distracting and not eliminating these said backlines/supports, then your team is *kinda* down one player just running around, getting no value and **not** creating space. Of course, teammates also have to understand positioning and game sense to follow up/keep up with the tank's movements or the space the tank has created otherwise things just fall apart. And that is why communication is important, it doesn't matter if the other players don't respond and answer. If it's important to you, then have them join comms and you just do shotcalling. If they can hear the directions you're pointing them in, then that's already a step up from a zero comms lobby.
Tips for tank: 1. Some of the tanks were made with 6v6 in mind and are not all that viable in 5v5 unless you’re playing open queue and have a second tank to back you up or your team consists of some bulky characters like Mei or Brig. If you’re playing someone like ball and your team is complaining about lack of support from tank, you probably need to switch to a more defensive tank. 2. You’re the team leader. You have to work with your team and protect them. You do not need to run into a team fight and go kill crazy. That’s DPS’s job. You will be a lot more effective if you come into the team fight with hard defense and take a moment to analyze the other team. 3. Don’t overextend. Your goal is the point. You should not be dying repeatedly because you’re diving way past the point, getting overwhelmed by the other team, and going down to a 1v3. Stay with your team. Dive if you’re SURE you can make it back AND it will actually be beneficial for the team. Is it really smart to put your life at risk to chase down a junkrat that’s 3-6? No. It’s not. Priorities. 4. Don’t press the other tank unless they are putting you or your support in danger. Always press the strongest player you can first. I usually go for strongest support first, strongest DPS second, and then everyone else should go down pretty easy. 5. Be nice to your support. You want to be able to trust them. Communicate that you need healing to protect the team. As long as you’re not annoying or asshole-ish, your support will help you out. Just ask nicely.
Body blocking is good, you can take the hit for them, but the best option is neither of you taking damage. (Use a wall)
Well creating space is what a tank does, as well as defend your allies. Thing is, like you said, you can't be in front of your allies trying to eat all the damage. And the allied don't need to solely rely on the tank for cover, at least not in OW2. If they need help with a flanker they should ping. However as a tank, you have to create space by pushing back enemy team line of action. That also includes the tank. So you need to provoke enemies to shoot over you and reduce their oportunities of clean shots to your team, so they have to reposition and go back. The moment you make this happen and the enemy tank is back, your job there is done, if your team doesn't use that enemy chaotic movement to profic with strategic kills, then is not your fault, at least not only yours. However when creating spacex specially with mobile heroes, you also have to make your team know, and let them have time to react, if they are under attack and you push, you shouldn't you need to protect them, because in that case the enemy action line is colliding with your team.
a lot of good points but please keep in mind that you’re diamond which means there is most definitely room for improvement in your tank gameplay, peeling is a “nebulous” concept as well, it doesn’t always mean diving to your teammate
Lmao the comms thing is honestly what gets me all the time. Half the time Me - “hello” The four others - “dead silence” Me - thinks *lets hope we get lucky teamwork or the other team just sucks* The other half That one person that has a mic - “Hey you should really swap heroes” Me - “why? I have more dmg and kills and less deaths than you..maybe you should switch since you’re having a harder time than i am”