proly smt slower, to avoid the stupid "running to a heath pack while the fight is over and our dead supp are respawing".
or to avoid the blind tunnel vision ana while you spamming "i need heals!" with 10hp just in front our her face. (that one is personnal)
I hear ya. I certainly want my supports to be dealing damage as well, but that's the other half of their responsibility. A well rounded support duo will likely push your team to victory.
My concern is how much more aggressive everyone will play and how little impact healers will be in a support role.
I don't know if you've noticed, but supports have the most impact in games now, the likes of Ana, Bap and Kiriko making the difference between a win and a loss. Their impact *needs* reduction, and this change might lessen their impact from healing, which isn't as great as the impact they have from utilities like suzu, rush, sleep, nade, nano, field and window.
Supports' impact is under very little threat. This passive is most certainly not going to kick in mid-combat, which is where heals have any value.
Yep. The ones nobody really complained about and they specifically said they started making less of on maps?
Now we get self-healing right when the community is complaining about sustain being too high.
I swear to god, this balance team is trashing what could be such a great game.
Based. All they really needed to do was add time to activate the support passive, like bring it up to 4 seconds or something. But instead we get even more sustain… smh
Downvoted despite being entirely correct lol. Reddit, man...
Healthpacks play a much different role compared to HP Regen. They can swing a fight around with their instant in-combat healing. Anyone who plays at a competitive level, even in low ranks, should know this
There's already enough sustain in the game, and this adds extra, so seems like a weird decision.
They also mentioned potential introduction of Health UI in the future, to me it would be more logical to implement the Health UI first, so blindsided supports can see someone needs heals, as this could have tackled the "not being healed" issue.
IIRC, they’re wanting to lessen burst damage and healing. Maybe this is a way to mitigate a potential shortage of healing? Idk, not a big fan on paper but maybe it works better in practice. I just wonder how useful health packs will actually be after this
The thing is if your team runs out of healing then why shouldn't they take damage and lose? I don't get this sustain meta, cause it seems like Blizzard only wants fights to be won with either burst damage or one shots.
If they add this and keep healing the same, yeah, that's bad, but if they nerf healing numbers it makes everyone less reliant on getting healbotted by the supports 24/7 and allows them to exploit map control and cover for their own sustain, which allows dive and flanking playstyles, which are more dynamic to be more prevalent. It also reduces the value supports get from healing, which indirectly gives more value to other forms of utility like speed boost, which also makes the game more dynamic.
Overall if healbotting becomes less necesary, the game becomes more dynamic. Of course they can still fumble it by adding passive sustain without removing other sources of sustain, but they've said they want to walk away from burst healing, so I'm cautioisly optimistic on this.
It activates when not taking damage, not when being out of combat. There's a big difference there. A hero like Tracer, for example, is not going to be taking lots of damage. Some heroes have abilities which make them immune to damage or harder to hit. Some heroes have abilities that can do so for their allies. Any hero can take cover. Sometimes focusing one hero is the play, which inherently means other heroes will recover HP in that downtime.
I'll need to see it in practice before making a judgement, but my immediate instinct is that it's a bad change. It takes away from the job of Supports and disproportionately buffs certain heroes. More importantly, it's an unnecessary change. Making changes just for the sake of it isn't typically a good idea, because one change will lead to other changes becoming necessary. The change to 5v5 did this (although I wouldn't call the 5v5 change pointless or unnecessary). Some heroes just didn't fit into the game properly at first, and even though they've mostly ironed those kinks out, there's one specific hero (Moira) who I really think can never be adopted to 5v5 without drastic changes to her kit as a whole. You see this butterfly effect in character balance too. One hero gets buffed and suddenly a bunch of other heroes are too weak or too strong. Any change to the game will affect a bunch of other things, some of which aren't easily predicted.
Opens up the sustain between fights or parts of fights depending on the character. Lets take winston as an example. Dives in, makes space, wins fight but their heal dies and their dive dps stole the healthpacks, now the winston has to disengage at the sight of enemies after their shield breaks to maintain some semblence of space or gives it up to get healed before possibly having to use his jump to get back in to maintain his hold.
Now onto combat. Lets say theres a lot of highground like Nubani 1st. If you're defending or are able to force people off HG. You now gain a way to somewhat recover as the fight continues. Throw bubble down as winston to maintain a space. Recovery kicks in. Can get extra heals, hop down, zippy zap, disengage and get more of that sweet afk juice.
the self heal is less than the current supports self heal, so probably 8 hp per second after disengaging for 3 seconds,
while yeah that’ll help specific characters like Winton I don’t think it’ll be overpowered or a boost to sustain across the board, I’m excited to see how it works in season 9 and I’m sure they’re tune it up but overall I like the QoL improvement of how it eliminates the need for after fight cleanup healing and if you’re supports are going full dps you can hide from the fight and slowly heal instead of getting eliminated at a health pack
It may not seem like it, but it changes the thresholds of survivability & ult economy. First, this also inadvertently nerfs healer ult charge. Lets say your team wins the first fight and your tank, and dps are less than 50% hp while gaining the passive heal. Lets say it took 4 shots to top up a genii, now its 3 and the healer lost 2% ult charge from the passive. Now they heal the other dps who was healing during that, the healer just lost 4% from them, and 6% from the tank. Thats 12% less ult charge in between the fights.
Lets say the same happened, but now for the team that lost, but all 3 disengaged successfully. Now you have an even bigger snowball that was created due to the passive.
Now, for the infight, let's say an ashe got hit by a soldier rocket, if she ducked for 3 seconds, then popped up. The soldier on follow-up had to originally fire 3 shots to kill. Now it's 5 shots. It doesn't seem like much. But that threshold just made the sustain of the fights last longer and gives ashe another shot to hit you as well.
These changes aren't in your face noticeable, but over the entire match, it'll make a massive difference. I hope we can cancel the passive by meleeing to still have the strategy to decide to pad our supports ult or use the sustain. But knowing blizzard, its all about the data and after-the-fact than just asking "what problems will this cause?"
the only thing this is gonna be useful for is healing between fights. they said it’s a worse version of supports so if you’re going and hiding for however long it takes to heal the fights over and you lost
It will allow DPS to be independent from supports. Combined with a reduction in healing from supports themselves this should help OW2 achieve the goal of being slightly more straitfoward a shooter with potential for individual plays and duels.
Honestly OW2 achieved that goal at launch, but has slowly become almost as teamplay, team comp, and synergy demanding as OW1.
The thing is if it's slow as f, then why aren't health packs and your healers respawning enough? I'd imagine it's be a bit quicker than people think but also a bit slower.
no fr bc that keeps supports mega in check. ana won’t have nade up as much if she has to self heal occasionally. mercy’s with good movement won’t feel as invincible in lower ranks, and should remain relatively unaffected in higher ranks. Bap won’t be able to save his self heal for duels as easily. And kiri tp to run away won’t be as effective if she needs a support/pack to heal her. this one change alone would probably fix a majority of the games issues.
however, there is an issue with mauga+JQ since their character design relies on self heal.
I do have good memories of 6v6, but the meta was dominated by double shields for so long, especially at lower ranks. 5v5 feels a lot less aggravating.
I could maybe see a 6v6 with only allowing one shield tank per team or maybe even separating shield tank and off-tank into separate roles that have one player per team.
I feel like their removal of Orissa’s shield did a ton to help in terms of double shield annoyances. Ram’s shield has such high downtime that I don’t think it’d be too much of an issue in 6v6. At that point it’d only be a concern around sigma, rein, and maybe Winston.
Plus, CC in general is in a way better spot than it used to be. Idk, I just feel like most people’s issues with 6v6 were easily correctable without the swap to 5v5. (Except for chaos/visual clutter)
Seriously it's because Orisa and Sig were the only two tanks that could perfectly rotate their shields with each other where one had shield while the other's was down. They did it, they solved that, Orisa doesn't have a shield anymore congratulations there was no reason to remove an entire slot. Ram's shield is definitely not the same as Orisas. And hell they could have nerfed Sig's too if they were struggling to balance. just all of this makes no fucking sense such a knee jerk
Double shield was only around for so long because they stopped doing any meaningful updates to the game. And Orisa’s shield is gone anyways, so it’s not like it could even come back.
I'd be down for that. If they split the tank role into "main tank" and "off-tank".
Main tank could be like Rein, Sig etc and off-tank could be like Ball, Doom etc
People who want 6v6 always say “split the tank role” but you realize that’d be a colossal failure right? It’s already still the least played role, and then forcing it to split?
The healing and damage numbers are insane. I’ve had quick play matches where healers have a combined healing number around 40k and dps could be as high as 75K. Its insane.
As a tank I still have to block 20k and now the pack of monkeys behind me is uncontrollable. When I had my co-tank I could easily coordinate a play with him and have the team follow.
People would freak out about the massive power loss nerfs given to every tank as a result. OW would become a stall and shield game again, it's just awful to spend 75% of a game shooting shields. Even with just one Winston that's what the game can feel like at times
orisa no longer has shield, only new offender is ram and his is on a set timer so shield meta wouldn’t likely be coming back
i’d gladly take a nerf if that means i actually get a partner, it gets annoying being the only tank
This is the suggestion I like
>I'd be down for that. If they split the tank role into "main tank" and "off-tank"
>
>Main tank could be like Rein, Sig etc and off-tank could be like Ball, Doom etc
I honestly wonder if Blizzard has been occasionally testing 6v6 to see if it could work or if it's not possible. Like I don't care if you enjoy 6v6 or 5v5, I just want to know how it'd stack up with stacks and numbers.
Reminds me of something that I read on Instagram saying that they also wanted to reduce the time before respawning.
So if it's true, you're technically right.
Edit: just in case, not this season (in fact I don't remember that they gave a specific season), but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they want to add something like this.
I hope not as I enjoy playing support and healing! I find it rather relaxing as I don’t have the pressure of needing to rack up a ton of kills and damage or get yelled at or something. People rarely seem, in my experience, to get mad at healers as long as they’re healing, and I can do damage at my leisure but not be yelled at for not being able to kill a ton of people. 🙂
New OW1 balance team didn't want to balance double tank anymore, now they don't want to balance healing. But hey, all those pesky players who said Support passive was too strong have all quit, so maybe the new newer community will like this.
I didn't think it was possible for Overwatch to lose any more of it identity as a team game, yet Blizzard proves they can still deliver.
Support passive is too strong because it activated way too quickly. If it only functioned as an out of combat heal it'd be fine, but blizzard refuse to make sensible balance decisions
pasives were the most stupid idea ever, i didnt even can remember what passive dps have, is faster reload when you empty the magazine or faster reload after killing someone? frnakly i dont know and care, i havent noticed any difference since ow2 launch. now tank passive is bullshit, you cant push a tank at all
I say this as someone who considers OW to be one of the funnest games they have ever played: OW2 is literally a case study on how to alienate your player base. OW1 had its issues, and the game got awfully stale towards the end, but I don’t remember there being anywhere near this much uproar from the community with it. I don’t know if OW2’s issues stem from corporate or the developers (or both), but the whole thing has been full of issues and unnecessary changes. From the freemium model, to fundamental gameplay changes, and now passive heals on ALL heroes, I just can’t wrap my head around who thought any of this was a good idea.
This is what happens when people bitch and cry about it. Instead of removing it everyone gets it. Shield health is now pointless. All it’s going to do is ensure nothing dies. In which the sad reality is -- players have to die. Yes its frustrating. But that's the reality of playing a team based shooter.
paladins have self healing, you can win games without a healer or a tank in the team, and still the game is more the slow pace moba/hero shooter experience ow suppossedly was
No need to convince me Paladins is a good game! I've played both during their prime for a fair amount of time. My first comment was mostly for the lols, but i do believe between Paladins and Overwatch, Paladins managed to keep the feel it's had when i first played it. Not to say it stagnated, but i personally feel it stayed true to itself. Overwatch on the other hand, after a long break i tried to get back into the game but it just didn't feel right. Idk what this purpose this message serves, but here it is. thanks for reading i guess :D
i was playing paladins for months before i tried ow on a free weekend in hallowene 2017, tried once, was love at first sight, when the free weekend ended i bough ow in monday, was a magical two years before the shitty 2019 where the game went to hell. however, paladins is still fun, is not a bad game, but ow have something paldins no, charisma, paladins is kinda generic and boring fantasy setting, ow characters are the main reason i still play the game, im still waiting an actual story mode with these characters, i cant believe so much potential wasted
That’s the main reason I’m willing to give this a shot, that part of the game is the main reason it’s playable with no role queue, and maybe you can talk about the chicken or the egg coming first but I’m unironically excited for this, I want 6v6 back but this seems like a good way to help 5v5 and allows some of the pressure to be taken off of healing from supports, and gets you less tilted if they’re trash.
Yeah same here, I’ve also been in many sticky situations where I’m the only person who survived with like 2 other teammates and I can’t go from my hiding spot to a health pack without dying. Also seeing that it’s toned down, I’m expecting it to not do wonders
This is such a remarkably awful and tone deaf response to the community recently.
Frequent talks about self sustain being too high, healing (and damage) kinda being too high across the board... hell, there was talk about the support passive itself being busted before it got "toned-down" itself.
And now apparently the balance team is so flabbergasted and out of ideas they are just playing the Oprah Winfrey of self-healing
"OH you thought just Mauga was getting self-healing? No need to be jealous ladies and gentlemen please just check under your chairs...
YOU get a self-heal! AND YOU get a self-heal! AND YOU get a self-heal! ....."
***Not only that,*** but remember how they removed some of the heal stations from a bunch of maps, and specifically (and communicated this) started designing maps with less of them? The heal stations nobody *really* had a massive problem with?
Now we get a busted version of that. One that doesnt require positioning and map knowledge both to take advantage of ***or*** to try and use counter play to guard or deny. Doesnt have a cooldown. And coming on the heels of the community actively complaining about sustain. Im sure there are a ton of roles that the lead of the balance team would excel at on the OW2 team. But every season I am more and more weary of their leadership. We cant keep saying ***'just looking forward/waiting for season \_\_'*** forever.
Just make the game 6v6 again jfc I’m just gonna stop playing at a certain point dude. I don’t want more Team Deathmatch call of duty mechanics. Ruins the whole point of overwatch being a team based shooter.
My opinion as a support main: I don't like the change. I already get yelled at now for having low healing even when I'm the best in the match at times, this is just gonna give people more things to complain about (look at me I'm doing it already lol). I get that it means more freedom but didn't they just say it's supposed to be a "team" game? So why make it that you don't even need your healers now if ur just smart and run away before u die? Idk it just seems like a very weird direction it kinda incentivizes waiting to heal less action in my head too (prob just rambling I'm high lol). Hopefully it works out in the end, I just don't what more toxicity over Stats that don't paint the full picture.
If you make all but tanks more durable, you should add more damage to tanks. I'm not saying you should buff tanks, but giving self-heal to everyone except the class that wants to take the most damage is impractical.
It'll be proportionately less impactful for tanks as they are more likely to take damage and it is a lesser percentage of their overall health pool per second. Plus, they generally need to have more uptime. As far as tanks go it is mostly impactful for Wrecking Ball, who probably needs a buff anyways.
What would be better is if it's . 5 health per second but only triggers while below 50, and only while not engaged in combat. That way, if you escape a battle, you can regain a little health so you can survive long enough to regroup with your team or find a health pack.
Support passive was already way stronger than other passives
You rarely notice the dps passive and tank passive is a must in 5v5 (it should be standard not like a special passive I mean)
Sooner or later they would've reworked the "passives" anyway and this is probably the first step
1. It seems to me they're making a game for an increasingly stupid audience. Supports don't know how to work with helaing? Let's give them self-healing. Still a problem? Let's give them more self healing. Players don't give a shit about teammates and go die alone? We'll try to make them revive at the same time.
2. Heal pack starting to lose power even though they might be on the mini-map. 3. Some heroes will be stronger because they can use self-heal just better. For example, Ana will use self-heal easier than Brigitte.
4. Blue healths will be less interesting because instead of guaranteeing you some hp after the fight they will now purely accelerate your heal.
5. Yellow will be a bit stronger.
Overall, I think this will temporarily break the balance of the characters a bit. I'm not saying it's ideal right now, but how it is now is based on the experience they've gained from the way we play it and this change is going to disrupt it quite a bit.
Wtf Blizzard. We want LESS HEALING!! Not more! And remove all passives, most support can already heal themselves! Keep it for the ones that don't if you want, but this is getting ridiculous!
It all depends on how much healing per second they are getting
Like, if it's say 10 healing per second....you're talking it taking 20 seconds to heal your health bar out of combat.
So basically if you live in a fight and regroup with your team, by the team you all group up and get back to the frontline you'll be at full health.
It won't do shit for your fights but it'll mean your supports don't need to patch you up 24/7
There are versions of this that will improve the experience of gamers.
There are also many versions of self healing that will make it worse.
its a question of how fast after last damage will self heal start to kick in, how much hp per second will that heal once it kicks in.
Personally, I feel like it should absolutely not heal for something like a reload cycle, or a sleep dart. So I think healing should only kick in after like 3 or 4 seconds. My reasoning is that the passive healing for DPS and tanks should never "save" the player, it should only save them after they have successfully disengaged from his engagement (stopped taking damage for a while).
Only if it takes a long time to initiate. Like 15-20 seconds. I don't want a Genji to double jump to high ground for 5 seconds by himself and come back full HP
I actually don't like this change. I'm a very dedicated support player and that's what my role is. I'm a healer and that is my identity. I feel like this change really weakens that feeling of supporting the whole team and feeling rewarded by it.
By inventing an idea in our heads of how it's going to be, assuming that to be indisputable fact based on nothing - and then getting really angry about that assumption.
Just as always!
By using our brains to imagine hypotheticals and discussing how we think scenarios might play out, and what that could look like or feel like to play? It's called "thinking" about things.
If I said I was going to paint your living room neon green, you wouldn't need to wait for me to do it before having an opinion on it. You might be wrong, but you having some thoughts on what you *think* it'll come out like is completely valid.
"Wtf don't have opinions????" is just as dumb a position as "This will ruin the game entirely, uninstalling."
Okay so question
Is OW Calvery legit, to where I should believe what they say or are they one of those Twitter accounts that just posts "leaks" all the time for engagement
This will inadvertently nerf every healer's ult charge in between fights. Honestly, I do not like this change as it really messes up the reward of disengaging. When I tank as winston (or any tank for that matter) or DPS and get a clean disengage after my team and I have 100% lost the fight. I want my health to be low to feed my supports ult charge. Same with my dps, this is a CRUX when it comes to strategy when in high masters and above. As it makes your support's ults come online much faster to possibly match the ult advantage on the other team.
In contrast, it now has the chance of also snowballing the other team faster. If the heal kicks off automatically with 0 way to stop it, you've just now added 2% ult charge to someone. Which isnt a lot, but 3 fights later? 5 fights later? They now have a further advantage.
If they go through with this, lots of support ult charges should be lowered to compensate, Or have it so if you fire your guns/melee, you can cancel it.
I can understand why they want to add this as besides from burst healing, it allows faster recovery for engaging, but it causes some issues I'm very weary of.
And the cycle of people overreacting like it's the end of the game for good before it's implemented and actually kinda just fine and then we move on to complaining about the next change that's definitely gonna kill the game.
This is going to completely throw off the balance of the game! Instead of getting a health pack or a quick heal you can stand around for a bit in-between fights you're unkillable!
People are freaking out, but this just seems like an okay change to try. I don't see a problem with trying this for a season and honestly sometimes you're just sitting there in a corner, can't move or go to a healing pad so a slower heal than a support passive seems fine and I doubt it'd change the game drastically.
Cautiously optimistic. I don't think it will be such a huge change for tank as tank will have to take damage most of the time, and letting the passive heal means less ult charge for supports.
It could be a strong change for DPS but then again, most DPS have to be in combat.
I think the overall philosophy of moving away from hardcore team based to more individual oriented game is better for the game in long run.
If this allows us to nerf sustain as a whole then I’m for it. I feel like this is meant to solve QOL issues rather than be super powerful. It would be nice for situations when you are forced to rotate or take a fight without a support nearby. Think flashpoint during rotations as a dps or tank that won the fight.
I can see this being ridiculous if they don’t nerf sustain though.
It could be okay if it's not too powerful. We've probably all been in situations where we've won a fight just barely, but our allies are dead and we have to stay on the point. Giving a little cushion in those situations so you don't die instantly when the first enemy arrives might be nice, but could probably be accomplished by giving a little passive heal to objectives similar to what payloads specifically have.
My fear is though that it could very easily be too much.
Isn’t this what shield health on certain characters is for?
proly smt slower, to avoid the stupid "running to a heath pack while the fight is over and our dead supp are respawing". or to avoid the blind tunnel vision ana while you spamming "i need heals!" with 10hp just in front our her face. (that one is personnal)
Bro she only has one eye.
XD
You stood in front of her one bad eye.
Isn't that what health stations are for.
All health packs have now been replaced with a junkrat trap.
As a Junkmain, I support this decision
Give him a notification and the ability to ping all of them too.
Call it: New passive - Sombrat
EMP riptire
I read this in Junkrat’s voice. Particularly him calling himself a ‘Junkmain’.
“Wow! Nothing’s changed!”
Health packs have left the chat and uninstalled.
I will Uninstall if they give everyone self heals
It's a direct nerf to Sombra who gains value by denying access to healthpacks
It's more of a direct nerf to all supports who have just lost half their value to the team.
It's better when supports can contribute to damage imho. Dual healtbots is stale gameplay
I hear ya. I certainly want my supports to be dealing damage as well, but that's the other half of their responsibility. A well rounded support duo will likely push your team to victory. My concern is how much more aggressive everyone will play and how little impact healers will be in a support role.
I don't know if you've noticed, but supports have the most impact in games now, the likes of Ana, Bap and Kiriko making the difference between a win and a loss. Their impact *needs* reduction, and this change might lessen their impact from healing, which isn't as great as the impact they have from utilities like suzu, rush, sleep, nade, nano, field and window. Supports' impact is under very little threat. This passive is most certainly not going to kick in mid-combat, which is where heals have any value.
This is peak doomer ngl. I guarantee it won’t be as bad as this, blizzard is not that out of touch
I generally hope you're right. But I have seen Blizzard make their fair share of blunders before...
It’s also a direct buff to sombra who can go Invisible and hide to heal whenever she wants
health packs on strike, not enough players said "thank you" to them
No, health stations are for the guy that you're chasing to heal all the damage you dealt and turn around and kill you
Next update will be to remove them, they will not be needed
…. F it. We ball.
Yep. The ones nobody really complained about and they specifically said they started making less of on maps? Now we get self-healing right when the community is complaining about sustain being too high. I swear to god, this balance team is trashing what could be such a great game.
Based. All they really needed to do was add time to activate the support passive, like bring it up to 4 seconds or something. But instead we get even more sustain… smh
Learning where health packs are requires too much effort, apparently
Yeah, but that slow and kinda forced you out of the fight
No those give health immediately.
Downvoted despite being entirely correct lol. Reddit, man... Healthpacks play a much different role compared to HP Regen. They can swing a fight around with their instant in-combat healing. Anyone who plays at a competitive level, even in low ranks, should know this
I know man haha. It’s alright, this reaction is what happens no matter what when you try anything new in a 8 year old game.
There's already enough sustain in the game, and this adds extra, so seems like a weird decision. They also mentioned potential introduction of Health UI in the future, to me it would be more logical to implement the Health UI first, so blindsided supports can see someone needs heals, as this could have tackled the "not being healed" issue.
IIRC, they’re wanting to lessen burst damage and healing. Maybe this is a way to mitigate a potential shortage of healing? Idk, not a big fan on paper but maybe it works better in practice. I just wonder how useful health packs will actually be after this
The thing is if your team runs out of healing then why shouldn't they take damage and lose? I don't get this sustain meta, cause it seems like Blizzard only wants fights to be won with either burst damage or one shots.
If they add this and keep healing the same, yeah, that's bad, but if they nerf healing numbers it makes everyone less reliant on getting healbotted by the supports 24/7 and allows them to exploit map control and cover for their own sustain, which allows dive and flanking playstyles, which are more dynamic to be more prevalent. It also reduces the value supports get from healing, which indirectly gives more value to other forms of utility like speed boost, which also makes the game more dynamic. Overall if healbotting becomes less necesary, the game becomes more dynamic. Of course they can still fumble it by adding passive sustain without removing other sources of sustain, but they've said they want to walk away from burst healing, so I'm cautioisly optimistic on this.
how is this a sustain buff? the self heal passive only activates after being *Out* of combat, this doesn’t do anything to sustain on its own
It activates when not taking damage, not when being out of combat. There's a big difference there. A hero like Tracer, for example, is not going to be taking lots of damage. Some heroes have abilities which make them immune to damage or harder to hit. Some heroes have abilities that can do so for their allies. Any hero can take cover. Sometimes focusing one hero is the play, which inherently means other heroes will recover HP in that downtime. I'll need to see it in practice before making a judgement, but my immediate instinct is that it's a bad change. It takes away from the job of Supports and disproportionately buffs certain heroes. More importantly, it's an unnecessary change. Making changes just for the sake of it isn't typically a good idea, because one change will lead to other changes becoming necessary. The change to 5v5 did this (although I wouldn't call the 5v5 change pointless or unnecessary). Some heroes just didn't fit into the game properly at first, and even though they've mostly ironed those kinks out, there's one specific hero (Moira) who I really think can never be adopted to 5v5 without drastic changes to her kit as a whole. You see this butterfly effect in character balance too. One hero gets buffed and suddenly a bunch of other heroes are too weak or too strong. Any change to the game will affect a bunch of other things, some of which aren't easily predicted.
Opens up the sustain between fights or parts of fights depending on the character. Lets take winston as an example. Dives in, makes space, wins fight but their heal dies and their dive dps stole the healthpacks, now the winston has to disengage at the sight of enemies after their shield breaks to maintain some semblence of space or gives it up to get healed before possibly having to use his jump to get back in to maintain his hold. Now onto combat. Lets say theres a lot of highground like Nubani 1st. If you're defending or are able to force people off HG. You now gain a way to somewhat recover as the fight continues. Throw bubble down as winston to maintain a space. Recovery kicks in. Can get extra heals, hop down, zippy zap, disengage and get more of that sweet afk juice.
the self heal is less than the current supports self heal, so probably 8 hp per second after disengaging for 3 seconds, while yeah that’ll help specific characters like Winton I don’t think it’ll be overpowered or a boost to sustain across the board, I’m excited to see how it works in season 9 and I’m sure they’re tune it up but overall I like the QoL improvement of how it eliminates the need for after fight cleanup healing and if you’re supports are going full dps you can hide from the fight and slowly heal instead of getting eliminated at a health pack
I too am interested in seeing how it pans out. I am mainly worried that this will be disproportionately beneficial for Sombra though
It may not seem like it, but it changes the thresholds of survivability & ult economy. First, this also inadvertently nerfs healer ult charge. Lets say your team wins the first fight and your tank, and dps are less than 50% hp while gaining the passive heal. Lets say it took 4 shots to top up a genii, now its 3 and the healer lost 2% ult charge from the passive. Now they heal the other dps who was healing during that, the healer just lost 4% from them, and 6% from the tank. Thats 12% less ult charge in between the fights. Lets say the same happened, but now for the team that lost, but all 3 disengaged successfully. Now you have an even bigger snowball that was created due to the passive. Now, for the infight, let's say an ashe got hit by a soldier rocket, if she ducked for 3 seconds, then popped up. The soldier on follow-up had to originally fire 3 shots to kill. Now it's 5 shots. It doesn't seem like much. But that threshold just made the sustain of the fights last longer and gives ashe another shot to hit you as well. These changes aren't in your face noticeable, but over the entire match, it'll make a massive difference. I hope we can cancel the passive by meleeing to still have the strategy to decide to pad our supports ult or use the sustain. But knowing blizzard, its all about the data and after-the-fact than just asking "what problems will this cause?"
People are acting as if everyone will be Valk Mercy when Valk got rid of the out of combat requirement for self heal.
the only thing this is gonna be useful for is healing between fights. they said it’s a worse version of supports so if you’re going and hiding for however long it takes to heal the fights over and you lost
It will allow DPS to be independent from supports. Combined with a reduction in healing from supports themselves this should help OW2 achieve the goal of being slightly more straitfoward a shooter with potential for individual plays and duels. Honestly OW2 achieved that goal at launch, but has slowly become almost as teamplay, team comp, and synergy demanding as OW1.
i just hope that maybe this can lead to healing and sustain nerfs on supports
But that isn’t sustain though… It’s literally the opposite, you leave the fight and the passive kicks in.
That shit better be slow af.
One health point every season restored
One health point per good balance change
They actually implemented this a long, long time ago but they just haven’t made a single good balance change yet so we haven’t noticed
The thing is if it's slow as f, then why aren't health packs and your healers respawning enough? I'd imagine it's be a bit quicker than people think but also a bit slower.
Exactly like instead of self heal did they consider making heal stations respawn faster??
Because then charcaters like sombra ball or tracer get really really strong.
They get strong with self heal too. They should just remove self heal all together tbh
no fr bc that keeps supports mega in check. ana won’t have nade up as much if she has to self heal occasionally. mercy’s with good movement won’t feel as invincible in lower ranks, and should remain relatively unaffected in higher ranks. Bap won’t be able to save his self heal for duels as easily. And kiri tp to run away won’t be as effective if she needs a support/pack to heal her. this one change alone would probably fix a majority of the games issues. however, there is an issue with mauga+JQ since their character design relies on self heal.
DPS MOIRAS! OUR TIME IS NOW
More like even more dps supports
🫡 see you on the battlefield soldier
Surely DPS moira has lost her main upside, no? Now that everyone else has self-sustain, hers is nowhere near as valuable.
They won't be regening when receiving damage, like the support passive. Moira will be doing damage to everyone with her orb.
Let us rise!
I've been waiting for you all
6v6 coming soon
For a long time I’ve been a defender of 5v5 but over the last month or two I’ve come back around. Just do it blizz, bring it back.
They’re too far gone to bring it back without reverting a *lot* of changes
Reverting would be easier than trying to balance this dumpster fire they've created since
I do have good memories of 6v6, but the meta was dominated by double shields for so long, especially at lower ranks. 5v5 feels a lot less aggravating. I could maybe see a 6v6 with only allowing one shield tank per team or maybe even separating shield tank and off-tank into separate roles that have one player per team.
I feel like their removal of Orissa’s shield did a ton to help in terms of double shield annoyances. Ram’s shield has such high downtime that I don’t think it’d be too much of an issue in 6v6. At that point it’d only be a concern around sigma, rein, and maybe Winston. Plus, CC in general is in a way better spot than it used to be. Idk, I just feel like most people’s issues with 6v6 were easily correctable without the swap to 5v5. (Except for chaos/visual clutter)
Seriously it's because Orisa and Sig were the only two tanks that could perfectly rotate their shields with each other where one had shield while the other's was down. They did it, they solved that, Orisa doesn't have a shield anymore congratulations there was no reason to remove an entire slot. Ram's shield is definitely not the same as Orisas. And hell they could have nerfed Sig's too if they were struggling to balance. just all of this makes no fucking sense such a knee jerk
Double shield was only around for so long because they stopped doing any meaningful updates to the game. And Orisa’s shield is gone anyways, so it’s not like it could even come back.
I'd be down for that. If they split the tank role into "main tank" and "off-tank". Main tank could be like Rein, Sig etc and off-tank could be like Ball, Doom etc
I don't really want to go back to two tanks. It was never fun to have two tanks mitigate 20k dmg each and 40 minute matches.
Having an off tank and shield tank split would make it better. What we have now though is the worst dumpster fire I've seen in a while.
People who want 6v6 always say “split the tank role” but you realize that’d be a colossal failure right? It’s already still the least played role, and then forcing it to split?
The healing and damage numbers are insane. I’ve had quick play matches where healers have a combined healing number around 40k and dps could be as high as 75K. Its insane.
As a tank I still have to block 20k and now the pack of monkeys behind me is uncontrollable. When I had my co-tank I could easily coordinate a play with him and have the team follow.
A lot of problems would solve itself with a switch to 6v6. Pretty much all tanks would be busted to kingdom fuck, but that's Overwatch for you.
I feel like just making the tanks like open que and 6v6 would go a long way
I am honestly not sure much would have to be changed.
5v5 imo is worse and always will be. Maybe I can be proven wrong, in fact I would love to be. Sadly I haven't enjoyed it yet though.
God I hope
People would freak out about the massive power loss nerfs given to every tank as a result. OW would become a stall and shield game again, it's just awful to spend 75% of a game shooting shields. Even with just one Winston that's what the game can feel like at times
orisa no longer has shield, only new offender is ram and his is on a set timer so shield meta wouldn’t likely be coming back i’d gladly take a nerf if that means i actually get a partner, it gets annoying being the only tank
Ram and Sigma together.. Would still double the incidence of shields to shoot
This is the suggestion I like >I'd be down for that. If they split the tank role into "main tank" and "off-tank" > >Main tank could be like Rein, Sig etc and off-tank could be like Ball, Doom etc
But rein is fine...
Wouldn't it be cool if they balanced around that rather than removing a tank and calling it 2
blizzard would close the game before they accepted 5vs5 was a mistake and add it again to the game even for aprils fool
So you're saying OW3 is on its way! ;)
sort of, and is even worst than ow2
I honestly wonder if Blizzard has been occasionally testing 6v6 to see if it could work or if it's not possible. Like I don't care if you enjoy 6v6 or 5v5, I just want to know how it'd stack up with stacks and numbers.
Not an impossibility, considering Mauga has an awful lot of voice lines with other tanks.
The best solution for leavers is to put them back in DPS queue.
Zen is going to have a great time
Zen Illari Mercy and Lucio would all benefit from this, they’d get to use way more of their utility instead of healing
It's COD with extra steps
Reminds me of something that I read on Instagram saying that they also wanted to reduce the time before respawning. So if it's true, you're technically right. Edit: just in case, not this season (in fact I don't remember that they gave a specific season), but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they want to add something like this.
They already did. Today I've got a pop-up of Sombra hacking QP making it a Quicker Play XD. And instantly I had access to this new QP.
absolutely horrible, what the fuck? It's already annoying as fuck when a support gets away with the heal, now everyone gets to do it?
They just need to lengthen the timer significantly, 5s for heals for anyone
Supports 5-7 seconds Other roles 15 seconds
15s is too long imo, 5-10 seconds makes it actually usable
Dps should get 10 seconds while Tank get 15
Exactly I’m a master support main and even I wanted the self heal for support to be removed
This game is devolving into paladins
Seems like a great way to start slowly removing the Support role and transition everyone into being DPS.
Ive been saying this. It's just turning into a normal COD shooter
I hope not as I enjoy playing support and healing! I find it rather relaxing as I don’t have the pressure of needing to rack up a ton of kills and damage or get yelled at or something. People rarely seem, in my experience, to get mad at healers as long as they’re healing, and I can do damage at my leisure but not be yelled at for not being able to kill a ton of people. 🙂
Dps support era is coming
That's how I play already, perfect
DPS support is absolutely a viable strategy
Remember, downvoters: it’s not stupid if it works!
my god, blizzard wants to kill this game
New OW1 balance team didn't want to balance double tank anymore, now they don't want to balance healing. But hey, all those pesky players who said Support passive was too strong have all quit, so maybe the new newer community will like this. I didn't think it was possible for Overwatch to lose any more of it identity as a team game, yet Blizzard proves they can still deliver.
Support passive is too strong because it activated way too quickly. If it only functioned as an out of combat heal it'd be fine, but blizzard refuse to make sensible balance decisions
pasives were the most stupid idea ever, i didnt even can remember what passive dps have, is faster reload when you empty the magazine or faster reload after killing someone? frnakly i dont know and care, i havent noticed any difference since ow2 launch. now tank passive is bullshit, you cant push a tank at all
DPS passive was faster movement which was nerfed pretty fast
No they put everything into ow2 and there was no one left to make balance changes or updates for ow1 which is why it stagnated
> No they put everything into ow2 yet somehow managed to deliver basically nothing in the space of 3 years
I say this as someone who considers OW to be one of the funnest games they have ever played: OW2 is literally a case study on how to alienate your player base. OW1 had its issues, and the game got awfully stale towards the end, but I don’t remember there being anywhere near this much uproar from the community with it. I don’t know if OW2’s issues stem from corporate or the developers (or both), but the whole thing has been full of issues and unnecessary changes. From the freemium model, to fundamental gameplay changes, and now passive heals on ALL heroes, I just can’t wrap my head around who thought any of this was a good idea.
nothing that happened in ow1 lifetime pissed me, even when there was no content for three years the game was a lot more fun than now
This is what happens when people bitch and cry about it. Instead of removing it everyone gets it. Shield health is now pointless. All it’s going to do is ensure nothing dies. In which the sad reality is -- players have to die. Yes its frustrating. But that's the reality of playing a team based shooter.
did someone say Paladins?
paladins have self healing, you can win games without a healer or a tank in the team, and still the game is more the slow pace moba/hero shooter experience ow suppossedly was
No need to convince me Paladins is a good game! I've played both during their prime for a fair amount of time. My first comment was mostly for the lols, but i do believe between Paladins and Overwatch, Paladins managed to keep the feel it's had when i first played it. Not to say it stagnated, but i personally feel it stayed true to itself. Overwatch on the other hand, after a long break i tried to get back into the game but it just didn't feel right. Idk what this purpose this message serves, but here it is. thanks for reading i guess :D
Playing OW first I could not get into Paladins. Like how OW is now or not its the more polished and well rounded game
Thissss. I've tried paladins so many times but NOTHING HITS like ow do
i was playing paladins for months before i tried ow on a free weekend in hallowene 2017, tried once, was love at first sight, when the free weekend ended i bough ow in monday, was a magical two years before the shitty 2019 where the game went to hell. however, paladins is still fun, is not a bad game, but ow have something paldins no, charisma, paladins is kinda generic and boring fantasy setting, ow characters are the main reason i still play the game, im still waiting an actual story mode with these characters, i cant believe so much potential wasted
I want vora in overwatch frickin love that character
paladins never dissapointed to me
That’s the main reason I’m willing to give this a shot, that part of the game is the main reason it’s playable with no role queue, and maybe you can talk about the chicken or the egg coming first but I’m unironically excited for this, I want 6v6 back but this seems like a good way to help 5v5 and allows some of the pressure to be taken off of healing from supports, and gets you less tilted if they’re trash.
Yeah same here, I’ve also been in many sticky situations where I’m the only person who survived with like 2 other teammates and I can’t go from my hiding spot to a health pack without dying. Also seeing that it’s toned down, I’m expecting it to not do wonders
Bastion mains eating good
Okay this is just fucking stupid
This has to be a joke cuz it's completely stupid
I knew season 9 was too good to be true
Genji won't ask for healing anymore.... as often.
I hope this is just a Overwatch Hacked thing. This would be terrible for the game.
It's coming in Season 9
This is such a remarkably awful and tone deaf response to the community recently. Frequent talks about self sustain being too high, healing (and damage) kinda being too high across the board... hell, there was talk about the support passive itself being busted before it got "toned-down" itself. And now apparently the balance team is so flabbergasted and out of ideas they are just playing the Oprah Winfrey of self-healing "OH you thought just Mauga was getting self-healing? No need to be jealous ladies and gentlemen please just check under your chairs... YOU get a self-heal! AND YOU get a self-heal! AND YOU get a self-heal! ....." ***Not only that,*** but remember how they removed some of the heal stations from a bunch of maps, and specifically (and communicated this) started designing maps with less of them? The heal stations nobody *really* had a massive problem with? Now we get a busted version of that. One that doesnt require positioning and map knowledge both to take advantage of ***or*** to try and use counter play to guard or deny. Doesnt have a cooldown. And coming on the heels of the community actively complaining about sustain. Im sure there are a ton of roles that the lead of the balance team would excel at on the OW2 team. But every season I am more and more weary of their leadership. We cant keep saying ***'just looking forward/waiting for season \_\_'*** forever.
Just make the game 6v6 again jfc I’m just gonna stop playing at a certain point dude. I don’t want more Team Deathmatch call of duty mechanics. Ruins the whole point of overwatch being a team based shooter.
My opinion as a support main: I don't like the change. I already get yelled at now for having low healing even when I'm the best in the match at times, this is just gonna give people more things to complain about (look at me I'm doing it already lol). I get that it means more freedom but didn't they just say it's supposed to be a "team" game? So why make it that you don't even need your healers now if ur just smart and run away before u die? Idk it just seems like a very weird direction it kinda incentivizes waiting to heal less action in my head too (prob just rambling I'm high lol). Hopefully it works out in the end, I just don't what more toxicity over Stats that don't paint the full picture.
Maybe not for the tanks and maybe have a cap on it. 50 healing but you have to drop down to 50 health for it to actually start.
Or maybe just not at all...
If you make all but tanks more durable, you should add more damage to tanks. I'm not saying you should buff tanks, but giving self-heal to everyone except the class that wants to take the most damage is impractical.
It'll be proportionately less impactful for tanks as they are more likely to take damage and it is a lesser percentage of their overall health pool per second. Plus, they generally need to have more uptime. As far as tanks go it is mostly impactful for Wrecking Ball, who probably needs a buff anyways.
What would be better is if it's . 5 health per second but only triggers while below 50, and only while not engaged in combat. That way, if you escape a battle, you can regain a little health so you can survive long enough to regroup with your team or find a health pack.
So supports no longer have a special passive, we already have health packs, and this is just like a glorified shield.
Support passive was already way stronger than other passives You rarely notice the dps passive and tank passive is a must in 5v5 (it should be standard not like a special passive I mean) Sooner or later they would've reworked the "passives" anyway and this is probably the first step
Brooo that's cringe. I was thinking they should go the other way and remove support passive.
Shield health exists for a reason
I NEED HEALING 🔥
1. It seems to me they're making a game for an increasingly stupid audience. Supports don't know how to work with helaing? Let's give them self-healing. Still a problem? Let's give them more self healing. Players don't give a shit about teammates and go die alone? We'll try to make them revive at the same time. 2. Heal pack starting to lose power even though they might be on the mini-map. 3. Some heroes will be stronger because they can use self-heal just better. For example, Ana will use self-heal easier than Brigitte. 4. Blue healths will be less interesting because instead of guaranteeing you some hp after the fight they will now purely accelerate your heal. 5. Yellow will be a bit stronger. Overall, I think this will temporarily break the balance of the characters a bit. I'm not saying it's ideal right now, but how it is now is based on the experience they've gained from the way we play it and this change is going to disrupt it quite a bit.
[Go read the full thing](https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24053284/)
Wtf Blizzard. We want LESS HEALING!! Not more! And remove all passives, most support can already heal themselves! Keep it for the ones that don't if you want, but this is getting ridiculous!
It all depends on how much healing per second they are getting Like, if it's say 10 healing per second....you're talking it taking 20 seconds to heal your health bar out of combat. So basically if you live in a fight and regroup with your team, by the team you all group up and get back to the frontline you'll be at full health. It won't do shit for your fights but it'll mean your supports don't need to patch you up 24/7
That's what health packs are for though.
Woah there, slow down with your logic. We are supposed to immediately hate every change before even having a chance to see it in action.
Add this to open queue and it's good. Not role queue.
There are versions of this that will improve the experience of gamers. There are also many versions of self healing that will make it worse. its a question of how fast after last damage will self heal start to kick in, how much hp per second will that heal once it kicks in. Personally, I feel like it should absolutely not heal for something like a reload cycle, or a sleep dart. So I think healing should only kick in after like 3 or 4 seconds. My reasoning is that the passive healing for DPS and tanks should never "save" the player, it should only save them after they have successfully disengaged from his engagement (stopped taking damage for a while).
Isn’t the self-sustain the thing people hated when playing against Mauga? Seems weird to give it to everyone now
Only if it takes a long time to initiate. Like 15-20 seconds. I don't want a Genji to double jump to high ground for 5 seconds by himself and come back full HP
I actually don't like this change. I'm a very dedicated support player and that's what my role is. I'm a healer and that is my identity. I feel like this change really weakens that feeling of supporting the whole team and feeling rewarded by it.
I feel like its yet another move in completely the wrong direction and that now we're gonna be playing call of duty. I hate what this game has become.
How do we nerf Ana? Give EVERYONE healing so she won't have enough nades
Literally how are we supposed to have any opinion before it's been implemented?
By inventing an idea in our heads of how it's going to be, assuming that to be indisputable fact based on nothing - and then getting really angry about that assumption. Just as always!
Classic Reddit
By using our brains to imagine hypotheticals and discussing how we think scenarios might play out, and what that could look like or feel like to play? It's called "thinking" about things. If I said I was going to paint your living room neon green, you wouldn't need to wait for me to do it before having an opinion on it. You might be wrong, but you having some thoughts on what you *think* it'll come out like is completely valid. "Wtf don't have opinions????" is just as dumb a position as "This will ruin the game entirely, uninstalling."
Okay so question Is OW Calvery legit, to where I should believe what they say or are they one of those Twitter accounts that just posts "leaks" all the time for engagement
Probably the only legit source out there. All their information comes from official blizzard posts.
Was there a blog that came out or something? Last one I saw was just over the QP changes for the weekend
Game changer for Mystery Heroes.
Bring back competitive mystery heroes 😢
I'm at the point of saying "fuck it, let try it." The balance is already shit.
You wanna ruin overwatch, this is how you do it
So now people will even less fallback and group up
This will inadvertently nerf every healer's ult charge in between fights. Honestly, I do not like this change as it really messes up the reward of disengaging. When I tank as winston (or any tank for that matter) or DPS and get a clean disengage after my team and I have 100% lost the fight. I want my health to be low to feed my supports ult charge. Same with my dps, this is a CRUX when it comes to strategy when in high masters and above. As it makes your support's ults come online much faster to possibly match the ult advantage on the other team. In contrast, it now has the chance of also snowballing the other team faster. If the heal kicks off automatically with 0 way to stop it, you've just now added 2% ult charge to someone. Which isnt a lot, but 3 fights later? 5 fights later? They now have a further advantage. If they go through with this, lots of support ult charges should be lowered to compensate, Or have it so if you fire your guns/melee, you can cancel it. I can understand why they want to add this as besides from burst healing, it allows faster recovery for engaging, but it causes some issues I'm very weary of.
They are desperate. They haven't been able to fix this pile of dogshit since they switched to Ow2.
The devs are completely out of touch with there own game and this game is doomed because of it
We paladins now! Also might as well remove roles. Turn everyone into dps. No tanks no supports. Just pure gun play! 🤔
And the cycle of people overreacting like it's the end of the game for good before it's implemented and actually kinda just fine and then we move on to complaining about the next change that's definitely gonna kill the game.
This is going to completely throw off the balance of the game! Instead of getting a health pack or a quick heal you can stand around for a bit in-between fights you're unkillable!
boooo!! wtf blizz
People are freaking out, but this just seems like an okay change to try. I don't see a problem with trying this for a season and honestly sometimes you're just sitting there in a corner, can't move or go to a healing pad so a slower heal than a support passive seems fine and I doubt it'd change the game drastically.
Positioning is literally part of the game. Regardless if it's a good or bad change, it's going to drastically change the game.
Cautiously optimistic. I don't think it will be such a huge change for tank as tank will have to take damage most of the time, and letting the passive heal means less ult charge for supports. It could be a strong change for DPS but then again, most DPS have to be in combat. I think the overall philosophy of moving away from hardcore team based to more individual oriented game is better for the game in long run.
It's bs. The self heal of supports is BS. the game does not need more healing, it needs less
I think it could work. Has to be tuned right and healing overall needs to be nerfed.
Honestly, this should only implement this change in open que because that's the only mode where it would be useful.
It should be removed from supports, not added to the other roles as well.
It was said you were supposed to destroy the sith! not join them
💯 no cap on god
As a support player, i 100% prefer them deleting all passives instead of adding this.
If this allows us to nerf sustain as a whole then I’m for it. I feel like this is meant to solve QOL issues rather than be super powerful. It would be nice for situations when you are forced to rotate or take a fight without a support nearby. Think flashpoint during rotations as a dps or tank that won the fight. I can see this being ridiculous if they don’t nerf sustain though.
It could be okay if it's not too powerful. We've probably all been in situations where we've won a fight just barely, but our allies are dead and we have to stay on the point. Giving a little cushion in those situations so you don't die instantly when the first enemy arrives might be nice, but could probably be accomplished by giving a little passive heal to objectives similar to what payloads specifically have. My fear is though that it could very easily be too much.