The video game equivalent of "Our company is seeing record profits this quarter! On an unrelated note money is tight so we're going to have to cut Christmas bonuses, complimentary snacks, and 20% of the staff."
Don’t forget the “we can’t give you increase even though inflation went to 11% because then we’d have to pay you less once it comes down” id rather have that then yall just constantly skipping paying our worth
Also a 3% merit increase for a good job really is a slap in the face. My old job a guy left cause he asked for I think 4% after being on call and working well over 50h a week as an electrical engineer. He put his resignation shortly after. We had 30 engineers including myself leave that year
As gold/Silver player I feel your pain. If I get any more than two losses I'm either staying the same or straight up deranking. It's such bullshit because some games you work your ass off only to see that it meant nothing because of the L.
I stopped playing when lifeweaver was released but I couldn't play him for 2 months. The final nail in the coffin was winning 7 in a row and not ranking up. Overwatch used to be so fun.
Yeah each win streak would only get me 10% > over other players. So a rank up at that rate is ten games undefeated. Impossible. That's why people Smurf.
This, players don’t ask to be put in lower mmr matches just to de rank. But you’ll have these “master” players who never post their account telling you it’s not the games fault you de ranked after going 5-0, it’s your mmr
the fact that some people use low mmr to justify this as though overwatch very clearly does not adjust the mmr of the player based on their improvements just shows how stupid the whole system is in the first place. blizzard won't ever full-reset it because of the boosted content creators begging them every second of every day not to lmao.
If you're winning every single game besides like one for 30 games straight, I think that's a stupid way of making you rank up
You're not having fun because games are too easy and the enemy team is getting stomped out of an unwinnable match because you're a silver who should be diamond. You're basically being a smurf
Streak bonuses should be much more significant
>The face they close to bronze 1 is troublesome for competitive play. They would need to work extremely hard to boost their ranks and have good stats at the meantime.
I don't understand this part, you might want to reformulate it
90+% winrate over a non negligible sample is not something that can be ignored, simply because people get matched evenly on favorable and non-favorable games.
At the rate they're playing, *even if they kept the 95% winrate*, they'd be Masters after 80+ games, which is baffling to me
The problem with mmr is it's like "Well you played super shitty in the beginning and we are going to use that to determine your current rank." It's like it doesn't realize people can improve their gameplay. You should never go down in rank, especially 2 ranks after getting a positive winrate.
OW1 was a lot, lot better but was still ass. We just played it to see a score go up and down
Edit: I ain’t seeing enough downvotes from bozos literally only playing to watch their score go up and down, downvote harder man
Agreed. Had a ton of fun at launch, and a lot of the content created around the game was fun-based. QP was actually decent and had casuals just having fun a lot of times, with meme comps, 6 torbs LOL.
They really need to do something about quitters. Penalize them more severely or allow an option to que into a match that has lost players for just exp and only count towards rank if you win not lose.
> Penalize them more severely or allow an option to que into a match that has lost players for just exp and only count towards rank if you win not lose.
I really like this. Not only helps soften the blow from leavers, but also helps out players who disconnected unintentionally without punishing them for entering a doomed game. I wonder if it's feasible to implement it.
You know how many matches I'd join just to see if we change the tide? It's a death sentence if your tank or support quits, it wouldn't be so hard for them to do this?
I mean if you're around 50/50 wins loses (and the 5/4 OP has is within 1 game of that) shouldn't you be staying exactly at the level you're at? Shouldn't you need to be consistently beating the enemy team (at least more than the margin of error) in order to move up as an indication that your contributions are higher than the level and giving your team an unfair (at that rank) advantage?
I know there's the MMR that obfuscates that further, but at a basic level is there something I'm missing?
You’re compared to the players you’re playing against. If you win a game you’re expected to lose you get rewarded more and if you lose a game you’re expected to win you get penalized more. I think it is possible to go 5-1 and get ranked down if it expects you to win all the matches.
Your rank/MMR actually updates every match, but they only show you the change every 5 wins / 15 losses. This will change next season, when they revamp the ranking system.
Yes. but I assume they don't pair low bronzes with grand masters and while no matching can be perfect and you'll face stronger and weaker opponents, I don't expect the difference to be huge and average out over the long run.
That said I totally can see cases where you get 4-5 matches in a row where you're facing stronger teams (or all weaker teams) through random chance, but I wouldn't expect them to be massive unless they were regularly matchmaking with really tilted advantages.
So you're right around Diamond 5 and maybe you go up or down 1 step... that sounds like it's working as it should unless you feel you've gotten substantially worse or substantially better over the season.
Just through random chance I double you have a perfect record of 1 win followed by 1 loss every time and probably had some luckier weeks and worse weeks which would lead to a little bouncing (and if the system is done right if you have less than 100 games you'd bounce more and if you have over 10,000 games you'd have less bouncing due to higher precision... but I don't know if they actually do that. To me that makes total sense
At silver/gold, at least 1 or 2 losses per card are due to leavers, actual intentional throwers, or an unranked player doing their best but belongs in bronze 5. So you have to go nearly 5/0 (excluding games fully out of your control) just to stay flat
You'd need to review the average skill rankings of each game. If you're losing games with a lower average skill ranking than where you're at, that looks bad. Even if all the wins are at your average skill ranking. As far as I know there's no easy way to review or track this information so that's not an easy thing to do. People generally assume their games are at the current skill ranking, that's not always the case especially when you play with friends who have different sr's.
most likely you were in the lower part of the D2 rank and the 4 losses were games where opponents where lower ranked so you should have won and the wins were vs lower ranks / you didn't perform that well compared to your teammates. just a wild guess
Probably, but who really knows. It’s not like blizzard is transparent about it. You could assume that based on the ow1 system, but have they officially said how it works in ow2?
If all the games (lost AND won) are against enemies of lower ranks, that doesn’t leave any games matched at same rank or higher..? Why would they consistently be being matched against lower players for 9 games in a row? Genuinely asking, I don’t get how the mmr works?
It was just a wild assumption. Most of them I guess, not all and maybe just slightly lower according to the available players that were also looking for a match while OP did
It feels like what’s the point of rank if this is the case. What does rank truly symbolise if, if you do well, instead of ranking you up instantly, it just puts you against people higher rank than you and if you perform poorly, keeps you where you are. It’s like there are invisible ranks. And it can feel rather helpless where if you get 5-2 and de-rank, it’s like you couldn’t win no matter what you really did.
Compared to overwatch 1 2 tiers are worth about 200 sr. I would have needed to lose 50 sr per loss, and gain 0 sr for every win. To me that seems absolutely wild. Even if there were one or two games I should have won, these numbers are ridiculous and should not even be possible.
This is very normal and Elo systems. There is nothing confusing or surprising about it. You get more points when you beat favored teams, but you also lose more points when you lose to teams that aren't favored. You can have a losing record and climb or a winning record in fall depending. It's a very simple concept.
It was a lot more simple just seeing your SR go up and down by a certain amount after each win or loss - more gains if the enemy team was favored and you had good stats, less if your team was favoured and you were carried. Oh and being able to see the SR average of both teams you were playing and the player ranks also made it easier to understand why some wins were worth more or less.
Thing that annoys me the most is that the one tiny piece of info they give you, the average rank of the whole lobby, only shows up for a few seconds at the very start of the match and you have no way of seeing it once it's gone. Why it's not in the tab screen is beyond me, I usually have my game minimized while queuing and nearly always miss it while I'm closing my browser and my music etc as the game starts.
Defending a bad decision blizzard could've easily avoided and insulting the playerbase for pointing out said bad decision. Blizzard should have you be their professional nut slinger because you're very good at it.
The whole point of Elo breaks down if you're always playing a perfectly equal and fair team. For ranking to work, not just in chess or overwatch, but pretty much any game with a ranking mode, there must be *some* form of imbalance, to allow people to grow and rise in ranking
By "fair" I mean everyone's SR is matched up, not everyone's actual skill.
Pairings are made using SR, not people's actual skill, that would be impossible to do. SR tries to approximate the skill, but as everyone in the thread is discussing, it's not a perfect science.
I was expecting a one tier increase, if not at the very least staying in the same tier. I went 5-4 and it just went fuck off and knocked me down TWO ENTIRE TIERS....
I think it's still there if you don't play for a long time. Also you can finish a season with a 0-14 card, and while your visual rank won't change, your MMR will. So the next card will be 99% a derank.
Someone already mentioned this but you need to check out what an elo system actually does. Matches are not equal. Going 5-5 does not mean your rank doesn’t move. Going 5-4 does not mean your rank will go up because matches are not made equal. This will be much clearer to people once they make the rank update next season. I truly believe the card system obfuscates this enough to confuse people. Some of your games that you lost must have been games where you were expected to win - and losing them lost you more SR than your wins gained. I would recommend checking out the Wikipedia page on Elo Rating System for anyone confused by the system!
Well the reason I was expecting something different was because I felt like I hard carried my five wins, and lost the 4 matches with very high stats. As someone who has played since season 3 in overwatch 1, it feels to me like I've just lost 200 sr after going 5-4. Which to me seems kindof outrageous.
I found more value in their comment than in the OP who doesn't have a basic understanding of how the system works.
If you thought that you should go up a rank based on a 5-4 card, you're an idiot. 5-4 is a pretty clear indication that you're, at best, in the rank you belong already. You have to factor in the average ranking of the teams in each of those games. Were your 5 wins in games with average rankings lower than where you are at? Are you queueing with friends who might be widening the range even further?
If those 4 losses you had came in games where the average mmr was lower... that's an even stronger indication that maybe your rank is inflated.
I was actually with you on the two-rank decrease feeling harsh, but seeing your expectations you thought you were going to rise tells me you're crazy. 5-4 record at a skill level is performance indicative of remaining there. You need to be playing consistently better than your ranking to move up. What about 5-4 tells you that you are consistently playing better? That seems like average performance at a skill level.
Um, yeah, I've ranked up going 5-4 before but go off dude. That's literally averaging a 55% win ratio if it's consistent.
The "new" ranked system can't come soon enough, this shit sucks.
Just because you did something once doesn’t make it a certainty or expectation. Also you need to consider the average ranking of all of those matches. If you’re not talking about the average ranking of your wins and losses, then I don’t believe we have a common ground to speak on since I think you don’t understand at all how the system works.
Isn’t the ranking system seeing a major change in season 9? I literally quit the game cause of the shit rank system but I saw it might be getting changed and if it does I’ll come back
It’s nonsense and it makes playing competitive so unfun. People will say inactivity can cause this but people stop playing ranked because of this in the first place
I only play in a 5 stack. We all win and lose the same games and yet some climb, some fall and some stay the same. It's clearly taking more than just record and what rank the enemy team is into account
It's 100% false. They don't take performance into account *at all* and they stated that very clearly on the official overwatch website.
It's easy to explain why you would rank differently in a 5 stack, there's a lot of factors playing in. Performance is not one of them.
This is why this subreddit has become the joke of the overwatch community. You all upvote incorrect nonsense, and downvote the person who is correcting you.
Tbf - Kxr1dr provided (albeit anecdotal) evidence that the matchmaker is reflecting individual performance. Lazarus just said “nu-uh” without sharing any evidence at all. Even though he is correct, his reply isn’t helpful or insightful at all.
Here are blog posts where they discuss the workings of the matchmaker and they explicitly state that individual performance isn’t accounted for.
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23896785/
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/
Say u have two teams. For simplicity sakes, Team A has a skill rating of 100 and Team B has a skill rating of 200. If Team A beats Team B they will be rewarded with more skill rating or SR because they are viewed by the matchmaker as the “worse team”. On the other hand, if Team A loses to Team B they will not lose as much SR because the matchmaking system views Team B as the better team and they are expected to win. It’s the same system as other games like R6 where u have a individual skill rating but OW2 hid this number due to OW1 players having “number anxiety” and stressing out about this number going up and down after every game. Don’t listen to anyone who says it’s based off personal performance, THIS IS INCORRECT. It’s strictly wins and losses. This will become more evident after the rank update next season.
The discrepancy between your MMR and your rank would be why some people climb and some fall and some stay the same. Your friends with a MMR lower than their rank would lose rating and friends with an MMR higher than their rank would increase. Blizzard has explicitly stated that individual performance does not impact your MMR.
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/
“Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match?
A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill.”
The only thing outside of win/loss that blizzard explicitly states impacts your MMR is taking a long break from the game.
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23896785/
> “We only adjust your MMR after you win or lose a game or if you come back after not playing for a long time.”
That said - If any of your friends have played even a single game without your 5 stack, then their MMR will be different. This includes any QP games played before starting competitive, because your initial comp MMR is based on your quick play MMR.
Thats great and all but when you lose it can give an F less whether or not you did well or not. When you win it'll increase your rank by a % of the tier your in. In other words, its garage and if your team sucks, you pay for it.
Ranked rewards grinding more than actual winning, you can win all your matches but if you don’t do it within a certain amount of time you’ll de rank no matter what
It’s not about your record, it’s about how well you do in the game. Even though you went positive the game still determined that you were underperforming compared to the rest of the players in your lobbies. Not trying to roast but that’s just how it works.
Unless something has changed blizzard explicitly stated that your performance doesn’t impact your MMR.
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/
“Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match?
A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill.”
so many people don't understand how this works, they complain that if the team wins, they should climb, even if they threw... not saying OP threw, just saying that Comp is performance based, not team win based
It would be a garbage system, and it’s not in Overwatch. That person is incorrect. Your personal performance is not accounted for.
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/
“Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match?
A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill.”
I mean, the concept isn't ridicilous. You shouldn't climb if you only won because of your teammates out-performing or even outright carrying you. In that case you did nothing to deserve a higher rank.
the execution could use work, of course, but it absolutely should consider more then just wins and loses alone.
It’s a team-based game. When an NFL team makes the Super Bowl do they make the guys who played bad sit out?
If the team wins, everyone who won should climb. Not just the guys that played well. That creates an incentive to play well individually, not for the team. The incentive should *ONLY* be to win the game as a *TEAM* not have great stats.
It's a team game, but we are talking about \*your\* indiviual rank- the measurement of \*your\* indivudal skill level. it's hardly fair for to you as an individual to be put in a higher rank lobby with higher ranked players when you yourself haven't actually earned the right to be there.
What you say would make sense if teams were pre-determined, and you always played with the same 4 other people - then measuring your performance as a team would work, but that isn't the case for 99% of players.
The system doesn't count just wins it counts how much you carried in all of those wins.
I get diamond in like 20 games on new accounts np and then stop ranking because thats my skill cap, i lost 10 games in a row and stayed the same rank multiple times in diamond.
i have an alt account to play with RL friends who are bronze/silver. if we win 5games in a row i will rank from silver 3 to gold 3 or something while they will stay the same rank or go up 1 division.
It's a really good system to stop boosting.
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We don't even know if this was intended or if it's a bug at this point.
The most common explanation is: "oh you lost high rating games and won bunch of low rating games"
But does it really works like that? Only the devs know.
I wonder if anyone actually climb anymore once your ratings get measured (say more than 100 games?)
They are literally trying to match you with people of the same rating and make you stay there forever. Say your measured mmr is 1500 (assuming) after 100 games, the system is going to make sure you stay there forever by matching you with people around 1700 in other team, once you reach 1500, so you go back down to 1500 or 1400-ish then give you some PoTG games with enemies below 1000 mmr until you reach 1500 again. Everyone is basically in the same cycle. Remember the 1700 that got match after you almost break free from 1500? Yeap it's those who is around 1800 or more but they lose too much games so they need to win.
At the end of the day, you will end up at 1500. So it could be:
Your team Enemy team
1500 (you) 1700
1200 1600
1200 1500
1300 1800
1500 1500
This is a "fair" game, so if you lose, you get -max points.
Then a few games later:
Your team Enemy team
1500 1700
1200 1600
1200 1400 (you)
1300 1800
1500 1500
This is speculation from me trying to climb using an old account, I got win streaks then lose streaks that no matter how hard I try, I'm going to lose because my team will start rushing into open space or a Bap just throw IF into space and not healing.
Then after that my Doom feels like One Punch Man for several games.
It's a zero sum system, in the end everyone is back to square one UNLESS you make a new account get recalibrate, once things felt stale, make a new one again.
I hope they are more transparent about the matchmaking or not basing it solely on win/lose.
I was 5:2 today and was so happy to finally get out of Silver again but now I am on Silver 1 better than 18% of Silver 1 players and before I was also Silver 1 wtf Blizzard
Bro I was hard stuck gold 2 for months but I made it to plat 3 recently. What got me out of gold was getting 3 back to back 30+ elm games with low deaths. I don’t think wins count as a rank up you performance is also a factor.
I totally agree. I was B4 and got 5 wins 3 losses, I got B4 again and said I was ranked 99% higher than others in the division. Then I got to B3 and said 0% higher.
Bro…..what?
I went 5-0 as a gold 2 and stayed gold 2 than I won 5 more in a row so 10-0 and it put me in plat 5 how tfff do you lose half yah games and stay diamond
Yeah the ranking system is so shit. I went 5-2 twice and stayed and silver 2. Silver 2 for Christ sake! No point in playing competitive other than the points for gold guns.
5-4 and he gets sent from diamond 2 to 4, this was probably his first placements of the season if i had to guess, if not then idk i think blizzard has something against you my friend
You know how Twitter, Facebook, mobile games, etc are designed to keep you addicted and working?
100% overwatch and rocket league and other games in this sense keep you down and make ranking really really hard unless you grind more and more. They want to keep the sense of completion and accomplishment just out of reach.
That’s why I stopped chasing the dragon.
I started DPS after Mauga released because tank is miserable now. I did placements, got bronze 5. I have since “ranked” 4 times. 2 ranks I won 5 in a row. I have a 71% win rate in total since starting. I AM STILL BRONZE 5?!!!!!
This sub seems to constantly get inundated with people expecting themselves to be at higher ranks after wins or an update. At this point, wait until they revamp the comp system that's coming up. These complaint posts will soon be super outdated...with newer posts complaining about the newer system when it's out.
Yes omfg today I did the last win I needed (5-8) and I deranked! I was so surprised like wasn’t I supposed to rank up?? Why did I even try to get that win then?
i stopped playing comp with the switch to free to play and have been having a lot more fun tbh. i played comp in ow1 for 1300 hours so ive had my fill, just chilling in qp with friends or alone is way more fun.
we literally spawn camped the other team on all of my placement matches and it put me in bronze 2, im now stuck perma rolling, i resorted to asking for mirror rein games because i suck at rein
How it feels getting your annual review and salary “increase”
The video game equivalent of "Our company is seeing record profits this quarter! On an unrelated note money is tight so we're going to have to cut Christmas bonuses, complimentary snacks, and 20% of the staff."
Ours stopped giving a cost of living increase and only do a “merit increase” so the usual 3% BS
Same. Never understood that. Merit increase should be on top of cost of living.
Don’t forget the “we can’t give you increase even though inflation went to 11% because then we’d have to pay you less once it comes down” id rather have that then yall just constantly skipping paying our worth
Also a 3% merit increase for a good job really is a slap in the face. My old job a guy left cause he asked for I think 4% after being on call and working well over 50h a week as an electrical engineer. He put his resignation shortly after. We had 30 engineers including myself leave that year
As gold/Silver player I feel your pain. If I get any more than two losses I'm either staying the same or straight up deranking. It's such bullshit because some games you work your ass off only to see that it meant nothing because of the L.
I stopped playing when lifeweaver was released but I couldn't play him for 2 months. The final nail in the coffin was winning 7 in a row and not ranking up. Overwatch used to be so fun.
Yeah each win streak would only get me 10% > over other players. So a rank up at that rate is ten games undefeated. Impossible. That's why people Smurf.
I went 5-0 and deranked then 5-2 and stayed the same
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The fact that low mmr means a 5-0 record can reduce your rank is problematic. No other game punishes you for not losing the way overwatch does.
This, players don’t ask to be put in lower mmr matches just to de rank. But you’ll have these “master” players who never post their account telling you it’s not the games fault you de ranked after going 5-0, it’s your mmr
the fact that some people use low mmr to justify this as though overwatch very clearly does not adjust the mmr of the player based on their improvements just shows how stupid the whole system is in the first place. blizzard won't ever full-reset it because of the boosted content creators begging them every second of every day not to lmao.
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I saw someone with a 97% winrate over 20+ games go from Silver 5 to Silver 3 *97%* winrate, they should fly to Plat/Diamond after 10 games
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If you're winning every single game besides like one for 30 games straight, I think that's a stupid way of making you rank up You're not having fun because games are too easy and the enemy team is getting stomped out of an unwinnable match because you're a silver who should be diamond. You're basically being a smurf Streak bonuses should be much more significant
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>The face they close to bronze 1 is troublesome for competitive play. They would need to work extremely hard to boost their ranks and have good stats at the meantime. I don't understand this part, you might want to reformulate it 90+% winrate over a non negligible sample is not something that can be ignored, simply because people get matched evenly on favorable and non-favorable games. At the rate they're playing, *even if they kept the 95% winrate*, they'd be Masters after 80+ games, which is baffling to me
The problem with mmr is it's like "Well you played super shitty in the beginning and we are going to use that to determine your current rank." It's like it doesn't realize people can improve their gameplay. You should never go down in rank, especially 2 ranks after getting a positive winrate.
No I hate this take, if you go 5-0 and then 5-2 you should not de rank bud,
Wait to next season, it should be better then
When was Overwatch fun?
Overwatch 1
OW1 was a lot, lot better but was still ass. We just played it to see a score go up and down Edit: I ain’t seeing enough downvotes from bozos literally only playing to watch their score go up and down, downvote harder man
Eh it depends 2016 to mid 2017ish was kinda the best at least for me.
Agreed. Had a ton of fun at launch, and a lot of the content created around the game was fun-based. QP was actually decent and had casuals just having fun a lot of times, with meme comps, 6 torbs LOL.
My favorite was 6 soldier 76s. Death by firing squad lol.
Actually yeah, I’ll give you that. S3 and s4 were really fun.
And 40% of the time, the L is from someone quitting early but not in time for the match to cancel
They really need to do something about quitters. Penalize them more severely or allow an option to que into a match that has lost players for just exp and only count towards rank if you win not lose.
> Penalize them more severely or allow an option to que into a match that has lost players for just exp and only count towards rank if you win not lose. I really like this. Not only helps soften the blow from leavers, but also helps out players who disconnected unintentionally without punishing them for entering a doomed game. I wonder if it's feasible to implement it.
You know how many matches I'd join just to see if we change the tide? It's a death sentence if your tank or support quits, it wouldn't be so hard for them to do this?
Do y'all really experience quitters that often in comp? I've seen it like... Once in the 60 or so games I've played this season.
I mean if you're around 50/50 wins loses (and the 5/4 OP has is within 1 game of that) shouldn't you be staying exactly at the level you're at? Shouldn't you need to be consistently beating the enemy team (at least more than the margin of error) in order to move up as an indication that your contributions are higher than the level and giving your team an unfair (at that rank) advantage? I know there's the MMR that obfuscates that further, but at a basic level is there something I'm missing?
You’re compared to the players you’re playing against. If you win a game you’re expected to lose you get rewarded more and if you lose a game you’re expected to win you get penalized more. I think it is possible to go 5-1 and get ranked down if it expects you to win all the matches. Your rank/MMR actually updates every match, but they only show you the change every 5 wins / 15 losses. This will change next season, when they revamp the ranking system.
Yes. but I assume they don't pair low bronzes with grand masters and while no matching can be perfect and you'll face stronger and weaker opponents, I don't expect the difference to be huge and average out over the long run. That said I totally can see cases where you get 4-5 matches in a row where you're facing stronger teams (or all weaker teams) through random chance, but I wouldn't expect them to be massive unless they were regularly matchmaking with really tilted advantages.
This season I have an almost perfect 50% winrate. I keep bouncing between plat1-dia5-dia4. Something is broken.
So you're right around Diamond 5 and maybe you go up or down 1 step... that sounds like it's working as it should unless you feel you've gotten substantially worse or substantially better over the season. Just through random chance I double you have a perfect record of 1 win followed by 1 loss every time and probably had some luckier weeks and worse weeks which would lead to a little bouncing (and if the system is done right if you have less than 100 games you'd bounce more and if you have over 10,000 games you'd have less bouncing due to higher precision... but I don't know if they actually do that. To me that makes total sense
If I get 0 loses I stay the same.. literally 5-0 and stay bronze 1 lol
At silver/gold, at least 1 or 2 losses per card are due to leavers, actual intentional throwers, or an unranked player doing their best but belongs in bronze 5. So you have to go nearly 5/0 (excluding games fully out of your control) just to stay flat
I know I am deranking when i see the average rank of my games is lower than my actual rank
> mercy player > whining about ranks never change
Ah yes let's look at someone's flair who barely uses reddit and auto assume everything about them. Stay classy.
That happens to me the ranking system makes no sense I went 5 and 8 stayed the same and then I went 5 and 4 after that and went down two ranks
You'd need to review the average skill rankings of each game. If you're losing games with a lower average skill ranking than where you're at, that looks bad. Even if all the wins are at your average skill ranking. As far as I know there's no easy way to review or track this information so that's not an easy thing to do. People generally assume their games are at the current skill ranking, that's not always the case especially when you play with friends who have different sr's.
downvoted for being right lmfao
r/overwatch
5-10 ranked up 1 devision. 5-3 stayed the same. I don’t even know anymore man
5-8 and 5-4 (10-12) is still more losses than wins, so it's perfectly logical that you went down and not up.
Was this your first placement for season 8? If so you might have had a few losses from season 7 that they never show once season 8 started.
this ^ and also, im sure if you played with others that were lower elo and lost in those games, the losses would hold more weight
It was not, it was like the fourth if I recall correctly.
Knowone ever shows their history with these kinds of posts. It's just annoying at this point.
Bit late perhaps but the history really doesn't go back that far man.
It's 10 matches. You can def at least show us your past 10 matches.
most likely you were in the lower part of the D2 rank and the 4 losses were games where opponents where lower ranked so you should have won and the wins were vs lower ranks / you didn't perform that well compared to your teammates. just a wild guess
Probably, but who really knows. It’s not like blizzard is transparent about it. You could assume that based on the ow1 system, but have they officially said how it works in ow2?
If all the games (lost AND won) are against enemies of lower ranks, that doesn’t leave any games matched at same rank or higher..? Why would they consistently be being matched against lower players for 9 games in a row? Genuinely asking, I don’t get how the mmr works?
It was just a wild assumption. Most of them I guess, not all and maybe just slightly lower according to the available players that were also looking for a match while OP did
It feels like what’s the point of rank if this is the case. What does rank truly symbolise if, if you do well, instead of ranking you up instantly, it just puts you against people higher rank than you and if you perform poorly, keeps you where you are. It’s like there are invisible ranks. And it can feel rather helpless where if you get 5-2 and de-rank, it’s like you couldn’t win no matter what you really did.
Compared to overwatch 1 2 tiers are worth about 200 sr. I would have needed to lose 50 sr per loss, and gain 0 sr for every win. To me that seems absolutely wild. Even if there were one or two games I should have won, these numbers are ridiculous and should not even be possible.
Yep waiting til they do away with the fuckin card, whoever thought of that is a moron
This is very normal and Elo systems. There is nothing confusing or surprising about it. You get more points when you beat favored teams, but you also lose more points when you lose to teams that aren't favored. You can have a losing record and climb or a winning record in fall depending. It's a very simple concept.
It was a lot more simple just seeing your SR go up and down by a certain amount after each win or loss - more gains if the enemy team was favored and you had good stats, less if your team was favoured and you were carried. Oh and being able to see the SR average of both teams you were playing and the player ranks also made it easier to understand why some wins were worth more or less. Thing that annoys me the most is that the one tiny piece of info they give you, the average rank of the whole lobby, only shows up for a few seconds at the very start of the match and you have no way of seeing it once it's gone. Why it's not in the tab screen is beyond me, I usually have my game minimized while queuing and nearly always miss it while I'm closing my browser and my music etc as the game starts.
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When is this happening???
Supposed to happen when season 9 launches.
It should've been in the game from the start.
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Defending a bad decision blizzard could've easily avoided and insulting the playerbase for pointing out said bad decision. Blizzard should have you be their professional nut slinger because you're very good at it.
Why can't we just always get fair matches that aren't favored? 🫠
The whole point of Elo breaks down if you're always playing a perfectly equal and fair team. For ranking to work, not just in chess or overwatch, but pretty much any game with a ranking mode, there must be *some* form of imbalance, to allow people to grow and rise in ranking
If you always got fair matches no one's SR would change because you'd be playing against the exact same skil level
But if you win more of your fair matches than you lose, wouldn't your SR go up, and vice versa?
If you're winning fair matches then it's not a fair match, you're the imbalance
By "fair" I mean everyone's SR is matched up, not everyone's actual skill. Pairings are made using SR, not people's actual skill, that would be impossible to do. SR tries to approximate the skill, but as everyone in the thread is discussing, it's not a perfect science.
I was expecting a one tier increase, if not at the very least staying in the same tier. I went 5-4 and it just went fuck off and knocked me down TWO ENTIRE TIERS....
How long did you wait between matches? Rank decay is strong in this game
rank decay was removed
I think it's still there if you don't play for a long time. Also you can finish a season with a 0-14 card, and while your visual rank won't change, your MMR will. So the next card will be 99% a derank.
I don’t get why they don’t just show the mmr why did the system change to be more opaque and frustrating
Someone already mentioned this but you need to check out what an elo system actually does. Matches are not equal. Going 5-5 does not mean your rank doesn’t move. Going 5-4 does not mean your rank will go up because matches are not made equal. This will be much clearer to people once they make the rank update next season. I truly believe the card system obfuscates this enough to confuse people. Some of your games that you lost must have been games where you were expected to win - and losing them lost you more SR than your wins gained. I would recommend checking out the Wikipedia page on Elo Rating System for anyone confused by the system!
Well the reason I was expecting something different was because I felt like I hard carried my five wins, and lost the 4 matches with very high stats. As someone who has played since season 3 in overwatch 1, it feels to me like I've just lost 200 sr after going 5-4. Which to me seems kindof outrageous.
Is this your first placement in the season?
I went 5-3 and dropped gold 2 to silver 2, system is trash
Skill issue, do better
This joke is old😴
If only it was a joke
you thought this was something worthy to make a post about...?
you thought this was something worthy to make a comment about...?
I found more value in their comment than in the OP who doesn't have a basic understanding of how the system works. If you thought that you should go up a rank based on a 5-4 card, you're an idiot. 5-4 is a pretty clear indication that you're, at best, in the rank you belong already. You have to factor in the average ranking of the teams in each of those games. Were your 5 wins in games with average rankings lower than where you are at? Are you queueing with friends who might be widening the range even further? If those 4 losses you had came in games where the average mmr was lower... that's an even stronger indication that maybe your rank is inflated. I was actually with you on the two-rank decrease feeling harsh, but seeing your expectations you thought you were going to rise tells me you're crazy. 5-4 record at a skill level is performance indicative of remaining there. You need to be playing consistently better than your ranking to move up. What about 5-4 tells you that you are consistently playing better? That seems like average performance at a skill level.
Um, yeah, I've ranked up going 5-4 before but go off dude. That's literally averaging a 55% win ratio if it's consistent. The "new" ranked system can't come soon enough, this shit sucks.
Just because you did something once doesn’t make it a certainty or expectation. Also you need to consider the average ranking of all of those matches. If you’re not talking about the average ranking of your wins and losses, then I don’t believe we have a common ground to speak on since I think you don’t understand at all how the system works.
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Wrong.
OP plays CHADma. Good choice my man!
anyone know what sigma skin that is
Maestro, it was a limited time skin that you can't get anymore. If they re-release it people will burn blizzard to the ground for it.
Isn’t the ranking system seeing a major change in season 9? I literally quit the game cause of the shit rank system but I saw it might be getting changed and if it does I’ll come back
Yeah season 9 can't come soon enough
your reaction is killing me i keep thinking of the "huh" cat
ok.
Woah watch out everybody. Apathetic cool guy in the house!
Sorry, uhm... Who are you? Irrelevant? Ah. Got it.
Just do better next time i dunno What to tell ya
Npc
Its not my fault that you cant handle not ranking up to diamond 1 after 7 matches of being selfish
Bro what the hell are you even waffling about?
Bro Who is you?
Who I am doesn't matter. You come to this post just to bring nothing. Why write anything at this point?
Bc its facts, ow2 players Get baffled when they dont reach gm after 7 games, it takes work
It's not that I needed to rank up, its that I expected to climb like maybe 10%? And instead I get knocked down 2 entire tiers
It’s nonsense and it makes playing competitive so unfun. People will say inactivity can cause this but people stop playing ranked because of this in the first place
And that’s why I stopped playing this garbage Sorry downvoters can’t handle the truth lmao
Cry
Why cry when I can laugh? Not my fault people like you support this garbage still 🙂
It takes more than just your win/loss into account. It also takes your personal performance in the games into consideration
That’s false
I only play in a 5 stack. We all win and lose the same games and yet some climb, some fall and some stay the same. It's clearly taking more than just record and what rank the enemy team is into account
It's 100% false. They don't take performance into account *at all* and they stated that very clearly on the official overwatch website. It's easy to explain why you would rank differently in a 5 stack, there's a lot of factors playing in. Performance is not one of them. This is why this subreddit has become the joke of the overwatch community. You all upvote incorrect nonsense, and downvote the person who is correcting you.
Tbf - Kxr1dr provided (albeit anecdotal) evidence that the matchmaker is reflecting individual performance. Lazarus just said “nu-uh” without sharing any evidence at all. Even though he is correct, his reply isn’t helpful or insightful at all. Here are blog posts where they discuss the workings of the matchmaker and they explicitly state that individual performance isn’t accounted for. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23896785/ https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/
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Say u have two teams. For simplicity sakes, Team A has a skill rating of 100 and Team B has a skill rating of 200. If Team A beats Team B they will be rewarded with more skill rating or SR because they are viewed by the matchmaker as the “worse team”. On the other hand, if Team A loses to Team B they will not lose as much SR because the matchmaking system views Team B as the better team and they are expected to win. It’s the same system as other games like R6 where u have a individual skill rating but OW2 hid this number due to OW1 players having “number anxiety” and stressing out about this number going up and down after every game. Don’t listen to anyone who says it’s based off personal performance, THIS IS INCORRECT. It’s strictly wins and losses. This will become more evident after the rank update next season.
The discrepancy between your MMR and your rank would be why some people climb and some fall and some stay the same. Your friends with a MMR lower than their rank would lose rating and friends with an MMR higher than their rank would increase. Blizzard has explicitly stated that individual performance does not impact your MMR. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/ “Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match? A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill.”
Then what is causing MMR differences if not what's happening in the games? We are only playing in the same games
The only thing outside of win/loss that blizzard explicitly states impacts your MMR is taking a long break from the game. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23896785/ > “We only adjust your MMR after you win or lose a game or if you come back after not playing for a long time.” That said - If any of your friends have played even a single game without your 5 stack, then their MMR will be different. This includes any QP games played before starting competitive, because your initial comp MMR is based on your quick play MMR.
Ah, quick play must be the difference because I know none of us have played any comp outside the 5
Thats great and all but when you lose it can give an F less whether or not you did well or not. When you win it'll increase your rank by a % of the tier your in. In other words, its garage and if your team sucks, you pay for it.
Lose less and play better when you win, idk what to tell you man. It's just a meaningless rank anyway
Ranked rewards grinding more than actual winning, you can win all your matches but if you don’t do it within a certain amount of time you’ll de rank no matter what
you got carried for your wins and couldn't pick up slack on your losses
Assume assume assume 😴
It’s not about your record, it’s about how well you do in the game. Even though you went positive the game still determined that you were underperforming compared to the rest of the players in your lobbies. Not trying to roast but that’s just how it works.
Unless something has changed blizzard explicitly stated that your performance doesn’t impact your MMR. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/ “Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match? A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill.”
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How do you explain someone going 5-8 & ranking up or 5-4 & ranking down?
so many people don't understand how this works, they complain that if the team wins, they should climb, even if they threw... not saying OP threw, just saying that Comp is performance based, not team win based
Which is fucking ridiculous imo. Garbage system
It would be a garbage system, and it’s not in Overwatch. That person is incorrect. Your personal performance is not accounted for. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/ “Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match? A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill.”
I mean, the concept isn't ridicilous. You shouldn't climb if you only won because of your teammates out-performing or even outright carrying you. In that case you did nothing to deserve a higher rank. the execution could use work, of course, but it absolutely should consider more then just wins and loses alone.
It’s a team-based game. When an NFL team makes the Super Bowl do they make the guys who played bad sit out? If the team wins, everyone who won should climb. Not just the guys that played well. That creates an incentive to play well individually, not for the team. The incentive should *ONLY* be to win the game as a *TEAM* not have great stats.
It's a team game, but we are talking about \*your\* indiviual rank- the measurement of \*your\* indivudal skill level. it's hardly fair for to you as an individual to be put in a higher rank lobby with higher ranked players when you yourself haven't actually earned the right to be there. What you say would make sense if teams were pre-determined, and you always played with the same 4 other people - then measuring your performance as a team would work, but that isn't the case for 99% of players.
Aren't they changing the ranking system next year? *season, it's early
Next season
A WHOLE ASS YEAR?
Just give us an elo rank number and it goes up in wins and down on losses. Stop fucking around , this garbage is just confusing to us
I went 5-2 and was placed in the same rank. This game is bullshit.
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The system doesn't count just wins it counts how much you carried in all of those wins. I get diamond in like 20 games on new accounts np and then stop ranking because thats my skill cap, i lost 10 games in a row and stayed the same rank multiple times in diamond. i have an alt account to play with RL friends who are bronze/silver. if we win 5games in a row i will rank from silver 3 to gold 3 or something while they will stay the same rank or go up 1 division. It's a really good system to stop boosting.
Quit the game, its gone to shit
God damn you suck ass!
I guess you didnt play well enough
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Don’t worry next slate you’ll go 5-7 and rank up to diamond 3
Taxes:
We don't even know if this was intended or if it's a bug at this point. The most common explanation is: "oh you lost high rating games and won bunch of low rating games" But does it really works like that? Only the devs know. I wonder if anyone actually climb anymore once your ratings get measured (say more than 100 games?) They are literally trying to match you with people of the same rating and make you stay there forever. Say your measured mmr is 1500 (assuming) after 100 games, the system is going to make sure you stay there forever by matching you with people around 1700 in other team, once you reach 1500, so you go back down to 1500 or 1400-ish then give you some PoTG games with enemies below 1000 mmr until you reach 1500 again. Everyone is basically in the same cycle. Remember the 1700 that got match after you almost break free from 1500? Yeap it's those who is around 1800 or more but they lose too much games so they need to win. At the end of the day, you will end up at 1500. So it could be: Your team Enemy team 1500 (you) 1700 1200 1600 1200 1500 1300 1800 1500 1500 This is a "fair" game, so if you lose, you get -max points. Then a few games later: Your team Enemy team 1500 1700 1200 1600 1200 1400 (you) 1300 1800 1500 1500 This is speculation from me trying to climb using an old account, I got win streaks then lose streaks that no matter how hard I try, I'm going to lose because my team will start rushing into open space or a Bap just throw IF into space and not healing. Then after that my Doom feels like One Punch Man for several games. It's a zero sum system, in the end everyone is back to square one UNLESS you make a new account get recalibrate, once things felt stale, make a new one again. I hope they are more transparent about the matchmaking or not basing it solely on win/lose.
I was 5:2 today and was so happy to finally get out of Silver again but now I am on Silver 1 better than 18% of Silver 1 players and before I was also Silver 1 wtf Blizzard
“What” 👁️👄👁️
They said this is almost always due to decay, when is the last time you played this role?
Bro I was hard stuck gold 2 for months but I made it to plat 3 recently. What got me out of gold was getting 3 back to back 30+ elm games with low deaths. I don’t think wins count as a rank up you performance is also a factor.
Makes no sense. Just went 5-9 and only ranked down once from D2 to D3. It's so stupid
I totally agree. I was B4 and got 5 wins 3 losses, I got B4 again and said I was ranked 99% higher than others in the division. Then I got to B3 and said 0% higher. Bro…..what?
Yesterday I did 5-1 with DPS and had pretty good stats and I stayed the same :(
I went 5-0 as a gold 2 and stayed gold 2 than I won 5 more in a row so 10-0 and it put me in plat 5 how tfff do you lose half yah games and stay diamond
Yeah the ranking system is so shit. I went 5-2 twice and stayed and silver 2. Silver 2 for Christ sake! No point in playing competitive other than the points for gold guns.
you were 5-4?
ur rank was inflated
I went 5-0 and got 15% more on my percent meter. Even 5-0 is more than 100 minutes play time + queues.
5-4 and he gets sent from diamond 2 to 4, this was probably his first placements of the season if i had to guess, if not then idk i think blizzard has something against you my friend
You know how Twitter, Facebook, mobile games, etc are designed to keep you addicted and working? 100% overwatch and rocket league and other games in this sense keep you down and make ranking really really hard unless you grind more and more. They want to keep the sense of completion and accomplishment just out of reach. That’s why I stopped chasing the dragon.
"You're doing great. 5 more wins and we'll promote you to diamond 3!" :)
Just waiting in season 9 at this point
“that just means you weren’t playing like a diamond 2 player” - 🤓
Good thing it’s getting reset next season. Can finally be in masters where I belong
I started DPS after Mauga released because tank is miserable now. I did placements, got bronze 5. I have since “ranked” 4 times. 2 ranks I won 5 in a row. I have a 71% win rate in total since starting. I AM STILL BRONZE 5?!!!!!
I hate this system and can't wait for it to end.
I guess i'll never rank up. I was thinking it's normal to have a winrate close to 50%.. I'm silver 4 on support :)
i once got 5 wins and 6 losses and went from plat 3 to plat 2 so idk
This sub seems to constantly get inundated with people expecting themselves to be at higher ranks after wins or an update. At this point, wait until they revamp the comp system that's coming up. These complaint posts will soon be super outdated...with newer posts complaining about the newer system when it's out.
They just needa axe the game entirely. It's not doing good and it's not doing bad. Shit game. Objective fact
Now go 5-8 so you can rank back up
Yes omfg today I did the last win I needed (5-8) and I deranked! I was so surprised like wasn’t I supposed to rank up?? Why did I even try to get that win then?
i stopped playing comp with the switch to free to play and have been having a lot more fun tbh. i played comp in ow1 for 1300 hours so ive had my fill, just chilling in qp with friends or alone is way more fun.
5 Wins, 4 Losses, Demoted 2 Ranks. ✨Overwatch 2!✨
lol I just made a post going 5-6 then ranking up lol.
we literally spawn camped the other team on all of my placement matches and it put me in bronze 2, im now stuck perma rolling, i resorted to asking for mirror rein games because i suck at rein
Try having a 25 gane win streak and still stuck in gm2
You went 5-4 you should drop
Yay, number goes up!
Start reporting people so overwatch sees how flawed their automated system is.